purpose the number one Health and Wellness podcast  sold like a million and a half books Jay you know

how much I love you I think we live in a world  where we think sacrificing our purpose makes us

a better partner when actually it makes us more  resentful guilty more upset so I believe that

there are four important decisions that we all get  to make in life if you can do that everything else

is going to work the first one is Let's Talk About  Sex the truth is most people are not getting any

we've lost Intimacy in relationships great sex  is a byproduct of great connection and intimacy

it's not a replacement for or a sore song I  promise you that relationship is not growing

it's actually falling apart slowly and you have no  idea the only thing that makes you feel close to

someone is venue what have you struggled with  this year big question a lot of the time when

I come up against any resistance it's like no Jay  you used to be a monk if you do anything else your

faults and you're lying and you're not allowed  to be anything else every time I do an interview

I'd feel like people wanted me to fail I was just  waking up feeling sick and I just had to be alone

but I didn't think I've shared this  with anyone I'm at a point where

I just want to start this episode with a message  of thanks a thank you to everybody that Tunes in

to listen to this podcast by doing so you've  enabled me to live out my dream but also for

many members of our team to live out their dreams  too it's one of the greatest privileges I could

never have dreamed of or imagined in my life  to get to do this to get to learn from these

people to get to have these conversations to  get to interrogate them from a very selfish

perspective trying to solve problems I have in  my life so I feel like I owe you a huge thank

you for being here and for listening to these  episodes and for making this platform what it

is can I ask you a favor I can't tell you how much  you can change the course of this podcast the the

course of the guests we're able to invite to the  show and to the course of everything that we do

here just by doing one simple thing and that  simple thing is hitting that subscribe button

helps this channel more than I could ever explain  the guests on this platform are incredible because

so many of you have hit that button and I know  when we think about what we want to do together

over the next year on this show a lot of it is  going to be fueled by the amount of you that are

subscribed in that tune in to show every week so  thank you let's keep doing this and I can't wait

to see what this year brings for this show for  us as a community and for this platform [Music]

what's up Stephen it's good to see you  this is a this is a question that people

are so flippantly right because that's just  the way Society is and the way we all are

but I mean this question in the most  deep possible way um which is how are you

big question I'd say that I'm at a point

and I'd only give this answer to you I  don't think I've shared this with anyone

publicly at least right now I'm at a point where  I'm really reflecting reviewing and reassessing

where I want to be what I want to do how I want  to give my energy and so I'm in this really

evolutionary stage in my journey which  I probably haven't felt like this for

six years which is when this all kind of started  externally and so it's been a really interesting

six-year cycle and I feel like I'm back to  where I started I definitely feel like this year

I pushed myself to limits that I never thought I  could when it came to work productivity efficiency

Effectiveness impact like the quality of the  impact this year was higher because everything

else was booming higher and at the same time  there's this natural sense of wanting to renew

wanting to reinvest in myself and grow again it's  almost like I feel like I did a lot of growing

and I poured it all out and now I'm ready to grow  again and pour that out again but I've got to go

and refill that cup got to go and ReDiscover what  that is and what that next thing is that excites

me that drives me that moves me to that level that  brought us here today so when you ask me how I am

really or how I am deeply I'm in that regeneration  stage but what's beautiful about it is that when

you've been there before it's a familiar feeling  whereas when you were there for the first time

it was scary now I'm like I've been here before I  know what this feels like I know how to find the

tools and skills that I need so what are the  symptoms of that how do you know you're there

I know I'm there because what have you been  feeling yeah I've been feeling like I want to know

where I want to be in five years or which  direction I want to move in five years and

I've been looking at that question and I've  been trying to answer and I was speaking at a

conference recently in Mexico  and one of the answers was

Jay what's your goal for what you want to do in  the next five years and I was like my goal right

now is to figure out what I want to do and what  I want to put my mind to for the next five years

and so I'm feeling a sense of accomplishment  I'm feeling a sense of arrival I'm feeling

a sense of satisfaction and then I'm feeling  a sense of hunger and I'm feeling a sense of

a search for clarity and almost like I can see the  next few steps but then there's a bit of fog and

Haze and that excites me so there's a feeling  of excitement that comes with that search for

clarity of that if that helps so in the short  term you can kind of see what how things look

but then as you look at the maybe the north star  that you're aiming at that's a little bit less

clear yes yes that's exactly it and and but it's  coming at it from a point of that's what I need to

do right now not what I have to I think if I felt  clear about it all I don't think I would actually

achieve what I want to achieve I think I'd waste  time waste effort I think we'd spend time being

doing stuff that didn't really excite me or move  me I think that I think you get to a point where

you know you can do something well and you don't  just want to keep repeating that because that

doesn't fuel your soul or that doesn't make you  into the person who you want to become and so

while I know that I can do that that's just not  who I would set out to be and that's not how we

got here and so I don't want to repeat a cycle  that I know I know how to repeat just because

I can when that isn't why I set out to do this  what is that cycle let's get really specific on

what is that cycle that you've mastered that you  think you know that will no longer give me that

same ah you know I'm probably different to a  lot of people who set out and say I believed

I would achieve this or I had a certain set of  goals and I did that I I didn't come from that

I came from this raw passion to want to serve and  hopefully uplift the World by sharing ideas that

people would listen to that and go oh I have that  conversation with my friend but I never thought it

was okay to say it out loud or I was just thinking  about that last night but Jay just put that into

words and now I feel comfortable sharing that with  my partner and so I came at this whole thing from

the approach of how do I help the individual  and the micro and then all of a sudden it took

off and and became this thing that was Far bigger  than I ever imagined and far greater than I could

have ever dreamed of or Bill and so what I mean by  the specifics is you've now learned how to create

value for people in a certain way whether that's  with an algorithm whether it's a pattern whether

it's the ability to communicate an idea and then  you go yeah I can either get lost in that cycle

and keep delivering because it delivers but no  that actually came from a raw desire to serve

that actually came from a place of abundant  creativity that actually came from a place of

genuinely listening and genuinely compassionately  giving it didn't come from a place of patterns

algorithms studying and research like that's  not why the impact happened if that makes sense

do you ever feel like you've lost yourself in the  algorithms I don't people know you as a master of

social media of delivering ideas via social media  value thoughts thinking um you became you know

people see this across their lives they become  exceptionally good at something whether it's being

a lawyer or whatever and they end up climbing  and climbing and then they kind of reinforce

to continue to do that thing Publishers give them  money and say do that thing you did yeah and then

they can get so far down that path that they go  wait a minute like how did I get here it's a great

place yeah effectively but I think I want to give  myself credit and I don't do that often but I will

for this I think I'm going to give myself credit  and it was something you actually raised to me

last time we sat down which by the way I got so  much phenomenal feedback from that conversation

so thank you for letting me go there but you  said something to me last time and you said Jay

you're really good at knowing when to quit  and you said that I Was a Serial quitter

and I'd never thought about it that way and  so you actually planted that seed in my head

and so I think what I've been good at doing every  time that that's happened is I've chosen to break

the cycle so when I first started out I was the  number one page and number one Creator on Facebook

and we literally left Facebook and when I say  left Facebook what I mean is I stopped creating

the content that Facebook was encouraging me to  create so we used to create these sketch-like

videos where we had actors and we would cast them  and there would be this scenario and when I first

came up with that idea it actually came from me  watching comedians who were creating sketch comedy

and I was like oh wait a minute if we applied  that to inspiration and motivation that would

be phenomenal so when I came up with that idea it  fueled me I was excited I remember we made this

video where this couple was arguing and I gave  them advice and it was it went super viral and

I was so excited by it and then after doing that  for a couple of years and seeing this incredible

growth on Facebook that format didn't fuel me  anymore and so we left it and I said I don't

want to be known for that format anymore why  because the format was owning me right I was

being owned by having to be a specific Creator  giving specific four minute pieces of advice and

thought and I didn't want to be that I wanted  to dive into building a podcast and writing a

book because I wanted long form I wanted quality I  just felt like I felt like there was only so much

I could say so there's two angles to this there's  two sides to this one is can I just yeah yeah of

course the reason I'm asking one yeah I love this  I'm thinking of Jenny who is in a similar role in

her job who's listening to this and it's got like  she's just lost the love of the thing which she

once loved so I'm trying to answer this for her  yeah yeah I love the question I I think that so

anytime you discover something anytime something's  new it's attractive you fall in love with it

and as it gets old we only keep doing it because  there's some part of it that becomes performative

so what was raw passion becomes performance and  I think performance is what drains us because

performance Now isn't a natural injection of  the Soul into whatever you're creating it's this

false acting version of that same thing and  so I find that when I feel like I'm performing

I worry and get scared and then I scale  back and so I think at that point I got

to a point where I was like if I keep feeding the  algorithm and feeding this it's performance and

the quality of what I want to give people has  changed the four minutes videos were a great

window into all of the wisdom that I'd learned  and all the studying I did as a monk and all

the ideas that I'd gained but I was like if I  can't give that to people in a way that they

can practice it like a four minute video can give  you motivation and inspiration but a four minute

video can't help you build a habit a four minute  video doesn't practically change your life a four

minute video is the injection the spark the the  buzz but it doesn't transform someone's being

whereas a program can do that a book can do that  a podcast that people listen to religiously and

build a habit can rewire parts of themselves and  so to me I was like I'm more interested in habit

change and transformation than I am in ideas and  information I was I was just thinking about why

I quit Facebook as well you I mean you you quit  Facebook I think later but I understand why your

success on Facebook was you're getting  billions and billions of views a month

right um I was making some money but it would do  the point the thing that I've realized from what

you just said there is when I was making those  Facebook videos I actually think they they might

have been doing something for someone else it's  not the same as a podcast which has the depth

but I think it might have been doing something for  someone else but I tell you why I quit because it

was doing nothing for me yes and you think about  what you were doing so at the start maybe it was

doing something for you but then as you do it a  thousand times it feels like work and I was just

thinking about that then because I was reflecting  on a study I read that when they pay people to do

something they loved they lose the love of it the  minute the motivations become extrinsic cash or

punishment or reward they people lose the love  of the thing they once considered a hobby um and

do you know why I was thinking that because I've  not been able to get bored of doing the podcast

and I thought well why because it does something  for me I get to meet you we get you know so if

it was just this podcast was going out to the  masses and it required three hours or six hours

of my time every week but I didn't get to have  the conversation I didn't get to be privy to it

maybe I'd lose the love for it yeah and I think it  comes back to a part of the definition of success

which for me is doing something that gives me joy  and makes me happy that as a byproduct gives other

people joy and makes them happy exactly like if I  can do that every day then then that's phenomenal

but I don't want to keep doing something as you  said that has the diminishing returns for me

only to live off the validation and attention that  comes from the other and I think too many people

have got caught in that cycle for too many decades  and I would like to say we've redefined find what

we do every two years part of why I dived into  love as a Fascination and a subject matter a

lot of people said to me they were like Jay why  are you going from meditation and mindfulness

and think like a monk to talk about love like why  why would you even do that and I was like because

that's where I'm at like that's something that  I'm I mean there's lots more reasons to it that

I can share more philosophically but on a very  raw emotional level this is what I'm fascinated

about right now and I trust that my audience  my community the people that are following and

listening and sharing and observing can trust  that the journey I'm going on is one of true

Fascination uh one of the reasons why I fought to  have the cover I wanted the fonts that I wanted to

not have my face on the cover of the book was all  of these reasons I know if I put my face on the

cover of the book that my publisher is going to  be happier they believe it's going to sell more

they believe that the less artistic it is the more  on the nose it is the more people are going to buy

the book my take is I want everything I do to be  r i want everything I do to be an extension of my

heart and this is that and so I think I'm just at  a place now where I've learned that I can trust

my intuition every single time and I want to keep  doing that I don't want to now become more scared

of trusting my intuition someone said to me they  said Jay like don't haven't you got to a point now

where you can't take any risks and I was like  no that's completely the opposite of how I see

it I've worked this hard by taking tons of risks  this is not the point to stop taking risks this

is the point to continue to take risk because  that's what creates joy happiness abundance

success and everything else I'm looking for what  have you struggled with this year what have I

struggled with this here this year like over and  over again like [ __ ] why can't I change that

so it's a bit of an oxymoron and and I kind of  lit I kind of love paradoxes and kind of feel

like it's always this way it's kind of like  at one point you know that reinvention and

rediscovery is constantly needed and then  there's the other side that I've probably

bang my head against the wall a few times on  is accepting that I can't always be Scrappy

as I was in the beginning all the time and  I'm and I'm intrigued at how you feel about

this especially having built something so huge  and now I know you're building something again

I can't that you know a few years ago when I was  starting out and we're building lots of things we

built things in a really Scrappy quick fast way  we made really quick decisions some of them were

great some of them were terrible things went wrong  things went awesome obviously you know you know

the rest of it is is history and all all of that  but there's a part of me as much as I need to be

reconnecting with that scrappiness there's a  part of me that needs to accept that we're not

that small anymore and that things do have impact  and influence and I think that that's that Paradox

is something that I find myself constantly going  back and forth on because I want to be able to be

Scrappy I want to be able to start things at the  drop of a hat because I feel like I can and at the

same time I realize well no now I need to think  about a lot more people and a lot more things are

affected and this can negatively impact this and  someone here could do this and all of that kind

of stuff and so I think that's something that  I struggle with is the balance between saying I

want to be the J that I was six years ago when it  comes to starting new things but I have to accept

that we're not there as well how many people  are in your team total globally full-time 50

people so it's not huge um but when you look  at the people that work with us and the number

of people it impacts and then the the scale  of all the content we create and everything

there's billions of people every month still in  in some capacity and so there's a sense of and

and also there's a sense of you know you become  a Target like you're not you weren't a Target six

years ago like no one cared I mean people took  shots day one like that wasn't the hard part

it's just you become more and more vulnerable  in some areas in some capacities because now

people are not looking at it as if you're  starting out they see what you have and what

they can pick apart so you're you're a you're  observant and aware of that vulnerability in a

way you never were before that doesn't make  me more scared or more uh fearful it just

means I can't ignore it and I think that's the  balance that I'm always going on it's like how

much do you want to operate from a place of  ignorance versus awareness and proactivity

what's your biggest um fear is an interesting word  but I'm going to use it what's your biggest fear

as it relates to being a Target like what if you  because I mean I've seen this similar thing in my

life obviously the big change in my life was when  I became a dragon on Dragons yeah yeah because

then you're then you're like a press Target before  the newspapers wouldn't write about Stephen in

his podcast or Steve on social media but now it's  Dragonstone star sneezes yeah on summer you know

what I mean it's like because there's a show there  which everybody knows and recognizes there's a way

to write the headline yeah so that I became much  more of a Target you know and that that's kept

me up at night I've got emails from reporters and  I [ __ ] [ __ ] myself about things that you know

they said they're gonna say about me or whatever  but just being honest yeah yeah you know I think

my life has just changed so much in the sense of  literally I was thinking about this 10 years ago

I left the monastery and when I look at my life  over the last 10 years and then if I look at it

13 years including the three years I spent in the  monastery I live like a completely polar opposite

life today I went from having no money no idea  of a business no relationship two sets of clothes

uh robes and living and sleeping on the floor and  having nothing and thinking that was the rest of

my life to now being in the complete opposite  point of view where we have multiple businesses

I'm married uh I I enjoy fashion in my wardrobe  I uh I really enjoy building teams I love the

world I'm in and I've grown and embraced all of  that transform transformation because I realized

that I could only give myself or I I had to be the  only person in the world who could give myself the

permission to be all of these things all at the  same time so I see myself as much as a monk as I

do as a manager as I do as a marketer as I do as  a mindfulness coach like I'm all of those things

and I'm very happy being all of those things but  I think that a lot of the time when I come come

up against any resistance it's like no Jay you  used to be a monk you should be a monk for the

rest of your life and you can never be anything  else and if you do anything else outside of that

Circle you're false and you're lying and you don't  you're not the same person anymore and I'm like

well no I I get where you're and by the way I  actually don't disagree with that I get where

that's coming from and I can appreciate where that  sentiment comes from because we've all been forced

to be like I'm an accountant I'm a lawyer I'm a  dad I'm a mum we've been forced to be one thing

and I think for me I've been on the Journey of  accepting all of my complexity and all of my

interests and passions and I think that that  takes a long time for a lot of people to get

their head around I'm not saying that my community  or my audience feels that way and I don't want to

alienate them I think there's a lot of people  who don't even care about that but I think when

I when I think about the idea of being a Target  or being it's a lot of that where it's like well

you used to be this just be this like you're not  allowed to be anything else oh a white and it's

like well no but my life's changed like that was  a part of my journey I'm telling you a part of my

story uh why can't I tell you the story that I'm  at why do I have to be the story that I was 10

years ago does that and this uh you know there's  several ways to answer this question but I just

want the most honest answer which is does that has  that ever bothered you have you ever have you ever

received received that kind of critical feedback  and it's bothered you yeah there was definitely a

couple of weeks where I woke up every day in the  morning feeling sick and I've never experienced

deep bouts of anxiety or I've definitely  experienced depression when I left the monastery

and that whole period was a depressive moment  in my life for sure but post that I was just

waking up feeling sick and for a week I just had  to be alone and I just had to be alone and not

see my friends and not see anyone my wife was  in London at the time so I wasn't with her and

I literally just sat alone for seven days making  sense of how I felt about myself what happened

it wasn't anything specific it was just feeling  that there was a lot of because I wrote a book

called think like a monk which I still stand  by the title I still stand by the whole book

The reason I wrote the book called think like a  monk is because I didn't want everyone to have to

live like a monk and my whole point was that when  you learn to think like a monk you don't have to

live like a monk and that you can adopt the same  mindsets and practices that monks have in your

daily life which is what I believe I took with me  but I found that when I would do an interview you

know the interview would be oh Jay Shetty you know  tells you to think like a monk but he's selling

millions of books or whatever it is right or like  you know um oh yeah Jay Shetty made x amount of

money through ad revenue on Facebook and YouTube  but he's talking about being a monk and so there

was this constant like comparison that those two  things weren't allowed and you were getting that

straight away every day correct and I was just  like why is it that I feel like when someone's

sitting down with me I constantly feel like  they want me to fail they want me to not be

who I truly am and they want to find that angle  on me constantly because they don't want to accept

that someone who is trying to be good at heart  is doing good in the work and winning is okay

and that's not a story though isn't that's not  a story exactly and I think that was hard for me

because I'd always believed that people would feel  your genuineness and and and they'd respect that

um you know I think me and you have Notch  we've we've had deep time together even though

we haven't had a lot like yeah yeah we wouldn't  say we've had the amount of time together but I

felt very early on that I could just be myself  around you hence why I've never talked about

any of what I've just said to you anywhere  else anywhere ever even on my own podcast

um because I don't like meeting people thinking  they want me to fail and I and I and if anything

I close off to that because it's defense  it's defense from day one and I realize I

don't defend myself very well because I don't I  don't want to I I just want to be who I am and

I'm comfortable with that but that seven days  was me doing all that work to process it bring

me into this bring me in good man Stephen only  Stephen only with you man only with you literally

bring me into those seven days um and what it  was like if I was a flower on the wall in your

world what would I have seen the seven days for  me weren't mapped out in being seven days like

it wasn't like I'm gonna take seven days and  this is the program I'm gonna go on it just

happened to be seven days and for me I'd say  the first day I spent reading everything that

was making me feel that way so you're reading  all the comments you're reading the tweets you're

reading the Articles you're seeing articles  come in that you've just interviewed for and

you're like wait a minute that's been completely  misconstrued like you're feeling this way and and

I'd say a lot of this was you know UK based  not really International to be honest at all

um and and you're feeling that way and I was just  reading all of it I was completely immersed in it

for a day and I gave myself a day I said I'm  gonna let myself do it today because I want to

be informed I want to be aware and you know you  just said this to me you were like you know Jay

I didn't see any of this I don't even know about  this and we've talked about this before and that's

what's really fascinating right like for me that  day felt like the worst day because it felt like

that's all there is that's all I'm seeing  even though there's everything else going on

so I I'd say the first day I spent just reading  everything and you feel terrible and horrific

and there's a part of you that feels defensive  and you're like but I'm not like that oh I wish

they could just understand this and oh well they  just read that differently and I I wish I could

talk to this person who feels this way and like  hold their hands and look into their eyes and for

them to feel my real energy I wish they could  give me a chance I wish I could actually talk

to each one of these people maybe I should maybe I  should actually like book a room and just line up

everyone who feels this way about me and actually  sit down with each of them and talk to them about

what my passion is and who I really am as a  human being maybe maybe that's what I need to

do and you're kind of doing this whole defensive  and explaining and that all of that was day one

uh maybe even day two and I think day three and  four were really the hardest because you start to

believe some of the criticism so there's a part of  you and I think this is a good part of me I'm I'm

happy that this part of me exists where I have the  ability to be really critical and harsh of myself

to the point that I kind of embodied some of those  ideas and I was like maybe maybe I am maybe I

am not fully genuine maybe maybe I do have that  part inside of me like God maybe I am wrong like

you know maybe maybe I do need to take a look  at myself maybe I haven't maybe I'm maybe I'm

not doing that enough and so I'd say that was day  three and four and that was the hardest because

you're now taking someone else's words to  be your worth and you're taking someone's

writing to be who you are and so I think day three  and four were just kind of processing like do I

really agree with that am I that what part of  that is me I can't just sh I never I've never

wanted to be someone who doesn't take something  as feedback like or doesn't look at something or

try and understand it more deeply and anxiety  how do you feel on these days you talked about

I feel like throwing up in the morning really  like waking up and feeling like physically sick

uh and and wanting to throw up but trying not to  and how and that feeling lost all day or was it

just when you woke up I think it was mainly when  I woke up like it was it was a strong feeling

when I woke up and I'd have to work through that  over the next couple of hours and then get over

that and then try and progress the day and I  think day five and six were making sense of

what was feedback

what was

shots fired and what I believed about  myself run me through those three so

the way I and and and even deeper than all  three of those and I'll talk about those

three but even deeper than those three three  of those was this idea of compassion of why

do people feel the need to do this like what  role does it play in their life in our world

and why does someone feel the need to without  never having spent genuine equality time with me

to feel any way about me also not knowing  anyone in my universe either so you know

and so so trying to have compassion  and developing a sense of perspective

of what role does this play in our society that's  the most difficult Point um to understand which

is I remember someone tweeted something at me the  other day and they just like they just you know

because it's funny because we get you know so much  wonderful feedback and then some guy at 3am he's

just like he just took a shot and he was like I  wish Steve was more authentic his PR team write

all of his posts and script his podcast and he's  and the the challenge of trying to make sense of

this this like statement where it's coming from  why they felt they need to tweet it at 3am what

I've done to them is an impossible challenge  to try and solve it's a riddle that doesn't

make sense but the only way that I've come to  understand it is by looking at my own imperfection

yes looking at my own jealousy yeah looking at  my own envy and my exactly inadequacies and how

sometimes I'm ugly and then I go I understand  we all have it in US probably somewhere in the

right context yeah especially if you've got a bad  day and the wife or the husband has given us a

hug you know and then I understand I'm ugly too  yeah you know um but going to those three those

three stages what feedback did you I I think the  feedback that I've taken on is that I definitely

have changed externally like in the sense of  it is true that uh my life is very different

externally very quickly that that's true to me  it's not quick because it's 10 years since I left

and 13 years since I was a monk and everything  but it is it is quick and it is a lot to you

know it's been a crazy Journey For Me internally  let alone everyone else who's just just watching

um and the feedback that maybe I should explain  and probably why I feel so open today doing this

with you and comfortable going there is maybe  I do need to explain my intentions more and not

just do the work and maybe I do need to spend more  time giving context do you think though because

there's so many people that do the content the  helping people the you know the genius stuff you

do there's so many people that do that and they  don't get the same criticism it's the monk piece

isn't it it's it feels like it's contradiction  it's the monk piece and it's also the um the scale

there's people I'm thinking like the biggest  in the world in in the in that game you're the

biggest in the world I guess in what you in the  specific thing that you do I guess but is it the

apparent contradiction of two labels that the  society have given you where they go successful

rich nice stuff but then because it's  the same with me no one's ever going to

do it for me because they think of me as  businessman yeah yeah so if I was balling

around in private jets and helicopters people  are going to go yeah yeah and I'm not being

private yet by the way but yeah no I think  yeah I think that's I think that is a big

part of it and and I recognize that that's  a massive Paradox and by the way I'm living

that Paradox which is even crazier because  it there's all that there's so much of that

self guilt and transformation that I've had to go  through I've had to rewire my deeper relationships

with every aspect like and I've realized  that the monk teachings actually hold true

they're just misunderstood or misconstrued it's  kind of like when we you know when we keep having

everyone who keeps saying oh money doesn't buy  happiness money doesn't buy happiness money you

know so you've that that statement's just lasted  for so long and you and I know that that's not you

know when it comes to the Monk's philosophy the  Monk's philosophy was very much that everything

in the world was simply energy and it could be  used for something higher or could be abused

pretty much anything in the world could could be  put into that way of thinking but the perception

is monks don't have money therefore it's bad but  that's a simplistic version of a far deeper idea

uh there's a beautiful story that I love that  we would often be shared in the monastery where

the teacher asks a student if you could give  one person a hundred pounds or give a hundred

people one pound each which would you do and  the student says I'd give 100 pounds to one

person because it would be really impactful  and the teacher says yeah that's that there's

nothing wrong with that answer and that's  totally fair another way of looking at it

is I'd give one pound each to a hundred people  because it helps me learn how to become better

at giving and it gives 100 people an opportunity  to grow and so the idea is that the answer isn't

whether money is good or bad like the answer  some people say is well they shouldn't give

any money out at all like I think the idea that  something is bad or evil or something is wrong is

a fall more simplistic idea than the depth of  the idea that anything can be used for good

or For Worse I remember that you know we've been  able to do so many beautiful things whether it's

things privately or even publicly when you  know my wife and I did this fundraiser for

covid for India um and I remember like it took  a lot of money to just organize the fundraiser

and it wouldn't we wouldn't have been able to  do that if we didn't have what we had and I was

thinking to myself I was like this is a perfect  example of like how you you can't sometimes you

need the resource to pull off something that's  even more powerful and big but if I didn't have

the resource and I didn't have the community  and I didn't have my audience and my fans and

the people that helped us do that it just wouldn't  have been possible and so it's kind of like this

all comes in and of itself it comes together I  remember when we met in New York and you took

me to meet the uh rather than time yeah I could  not say that yeah yeah you met you met my monk

teacher yeah Swami is the like the pope title  like the equivalent of that do you remember the

question I asked him I don't actually tell me it  was exactly what you've just said so I said to him

um there's a part of me that has always had  this sort of internal conflict where whether

if what I'm doing what I consider to be selfishly  like building businesses enriching myself

is um is good or bad and I I've always  since I was 18 I remember being sat in

my room and thinking you know if  instead of building this business

if I just went to Africa and saved one life would  that be more of a worthy cause than building a

business that would enrich myself and your your  teacher said to me he said um I'll never forget

it I talk about it all the time on stage probably  every month on stage he said to me you can't pour

out for others that which you don't have in your  own bottle I always remembered that because it's

entirely true the the impact that I would be  able to have now in many areas whether it's

the donations we've done for children's cancer  Societies or all of the things that we've done

this year the money we've donated from we gave  away all of the money from our live tour um none

of those things even like this podcast wouldn't  have been possible if I didn't fill my bottle

and my bottle isn't just Financial it's skills  resources knowledge it's Network it's reputation

um and that full bottle allows you to do so much  for so many others but I do want to zoom in on

something you said yeah you said that you had to  confront your ugliest side yeah now this is an

uncomfortable thing to do because it really it's  for all of us it's a quite an uncomfortable place

to go to actually consider faults in ourselves  what is your ugly side in your view oh hmm

I think whenever anyone does this activity you  have to be it's it's again that balance of being

highly self-reflective and open to  feedback but not getting into the harsh

like killing yourself basically because  it's and it's a really it's a really like

interesting balance I find because you can easily  do either like you can easily defend yourself and

be like no no I'm good I'm a good person I'm  great or you can do the opposite but you're

just like I'm the worst that is yeah and it kind  of and that's why I'm you know as you ask that

question I'm like let me really look at it um  my ugliest side is that any and I believe this

is true of most people is that you're truly  capable of anything anything and I think my

practice and my daily habit is and has always  been to try and feed the good dog inside me

and so I don't think I associate that deeply with  my ugly side because I've just not fed it for a

long time and so I don't feel very close to it  in the sense of that doesn't mean it can't take

effect on me so so my teachers would always say  that if you feel like you're unaffected by Maya

Maya's the Sanskrit word for illusion an illusion  is considered ignorance and that which leads to

the dark side or the ugly side if you feel  that you're unaffected by Maya you're in Maya

right if you feel unaffected by illusion or the  dark side you're in the dark side right yeah that

makes sense and it's the idea as well of like  if someone says they're humble or practicing

humility it's like they're in ego right now it's  yeah it's not possible to think to yourself oh

I'm I'm I'm humble at the same time as feeling  ego less you can go with it and so the idea and

I think you have to be aware of that because you  don't associate with my life you can easily fall

for anything but I think my dark side exists  within this capacity of like you know the the

comparison the Envy the jealousy the the ego that  that's the kind of stuff that I would say that

mainly I would grapple with and I grew up with on  a daily basis and I choose to Grapple with it on

a daily basis we in the monastery often talked  about uh relishing the battle Yeah that that

there was always going to be a battle the battle  was never won or lost it was a constant relishing

the battle you just had to re-pick up the sword  and have the fight every day and so I've learned

to relish the battle and the battle is accepting  that there is both inside of me and it's a battle

I have to have every day and the avoidance or  ignorance that I don't have one of the sides

isn't healthy right and in my case it's just not  healthy I can't accept that I I have only pure

intentions do you believe you'll get to a point  where you've won the battle I don't think so I

don't think that's the goal I I I think I think  the moment you think you've won the battle is

when you lose I mean there's that brilliant clip  on uh social that's always going viral and it's

literally like I forget what the line is but I  think the caption is something like it's never

over until it's over and it's all the Moments in  Sports where someone's felt that the ball's gone

across the line or hasn't or the person's running  thinking they're about to cross the finish line

they look over and they lose every single time and  I think that that's a great image and metaphor for

the idea that as soon as you think you've won  that's when you're most likely to lose because

that's when you put your guard down and I think  putting your guard down to your own Envy into your

own comparison to your own ego is unhealthy and I  think sometimes when we see the crazy things that

happen in the world it's not because someone  was made that way or built that way it's that

they let their guard down to those things and so  when I'm saying that I sat for seven days with

my demons and my dark side and my unhealthiness  and checked myself I'm I'm glad I did that and I

shouldn't avoid that I shouldn't sit here and say  no no I know I'm an amazing human being and I'm

a good intention I know all this thing I am good  intentioned I am someone who cares about people I

I am deeply compassionate I have only ever tried  my best to serve in love those are all true I'm

very confident in that but at the same time I have  a propensity to be egotistic to be envious to be

jealous to be comparative to be competitive and  unhealthy sense and if I'm more Vigilant of that

that won't ruin it and that's the Perfect Analogy  that was given to us in the monastery was we all

had to plant a seed and tend to it every day  because you'd see weeds grow around it every

day and this was the exact concept that was taught  to us that when you plant a seed weeds are going

to grow around it and the weeds often look like  the plant they often look perfect and you can keep

watering the weeds or water the seed and pluck the  weeds and that's the daily practice that each and

every one of us does so I think every day I sit  with myself in my meditation and I try and pluck

out the weeds and sometimes it's not plucking  sometimes it's ripping gripping destroying

uprooting like the weeds have gone deep some of  these weeds are not no longer little seedlings and

little plants some of them have been around for  years and so there's that work that has to happen

are you thinking about a particular weed um but  you've really had to like work on and unplug I

mean I've got loads in my life that I know that  you see the it continue to rear continues to show

up in the the moments where you're maybe  complacent yeah about you know you think

you've got it all figured out and then [ __ ] over  here yeah I think the biggest one that I probably

monitor I mean I monitor all of them regularly  but I think it's the weed that we all have

that the way we live life is the right way to live  it like the belief that my perspective my opinion

my priorities my values should be everyone's and  that somehow because of that we should all align

and I think you see that as your partner the  most like for example my wife really values her

my value my wife really values her mentor and  physical health and so her number one priority

today in the day is making sure she's meditated  and making sure she's gone to the gym like those

are like massive priorities for her and sometimes  there'll be two workouts and more meditation and

I'm coming back off of a slog day of like working  podcasts meeting schedules all this other stuff

and I've meditated but I haven't worked out today  and I'm running around and I think at the end of

the day that I've achieved more like that is a  weed because I'm saying that what I prioritize

is more important than what she prioritizes when  it isn't it's just different she her self-worth is

based on very different things than my self-worth  is based on do you ever find you know when you're

saying all of this you're describing exactly  me and my partner I love that man that's good

she wakes up at seven or eight in the morning  yeah she's built like a temple and she goes to

the temple people and if I woke up past two hours  later she's just stretching in the temple yeah you

know what I mean I'm like zooming past with like  you know late for some [ __ ] and she I just she's

just stretching in a temple she flows that's the  way she just flows nice and slowly through life

um at her own pace a pace that I know  nothing about yeah a place I could not

relate to yeah same same so I was going to ask  you about this have you ever found yourself

making the mistake of exerting your your ambition

flows that you know that  pace because I have yeah yeah

I think I think and I write about  this in the book but by the time I was

by the time I was with my wife and we moved in and  got married and like started really investing in

our relationship I think I'd seen a lot of people  do it to other people so my wife would always get

people around her she's a phenomenal chef and  cook and you know really really talented when

it comes to food and health and nutrition so the  one thing she'd hear from everyone was you should

start a restaurant like that's all she'd ever hear  is you should start a restaurant you should start

a restaurant and whenever I'd I'd see the like  sometimes fear confusion uncertainty on her face

when people would say that this is like you know  I'm talking about like seven years ago maybe eight

years ago and I would always sit with Edward there  and be like how do you feel when people say that

like what is does that excite you does that you  know if someone told me that and I had her skills

I'd be like oh that's amazing people believe in  me right which is something I never really had

and she was like no I just I don't know if I want  a restaurant like I don't know if that's what I

want to do with my skills like I she always wanted  to be in Pediatrics and she wanted to help people

with their nutrition and diet and she wanted to  work with individuals and work with and now she's

working with people online and she does making  love making recipes but does she want to build

a restaurant and so we'd always go through that  cycle and I started to realize and we'd have this

conversation often that just because someone says  something that's a good idea it doesn't need to

be your idea and you don't need to chase it and  so I'd say that I don't think I've ever pushed

my pace on her because I think part of being a  coach and this is why I value coaching so deeply

is because a coach is never meant to dictate  the pace of the person they work with and so

there's a chapter in the book called your partner  is your Guru and that's a really tough statement

to handle but actually a guru likened to a coach  never dictates the pace of the student so my monk

teacher who you met wouldn't that day in New  York would never ever say to me Jay you've been

meditating for 17 years now why are you not a pure  perfect meditator they would never say that to me

because they don't think that that's the pace at  which it works they know that I'm on my journey on

my timeline now at the same time I think opening  up conversations like I will have the conversation

with my wife and be like uh are you thinking  about setting goals or intentions for 2023 and

do you want to talk about it because I'm going to  be doing that myself yeah and I've seen that she's

done that like where my wife has opened up to some  of my ideas and my ways of working because I open

up it as a conversation not as a oh by the way  these are my goals for 2023 what are yours which

where it's like a pressure and that's like an  insecure amateur version of trying to be a coach

where it's like well look what I've achieved what  did you achieve this year or by the way let's look

at our 2022 goals and what we achieved like it  becomes an ego thing again so I think for me I've

really tried my best to embody being a coach in my  partnership because I see it just being healthier

when we've allowed each other's good qualities  to rub off and by the way she's done the same

back to me so if I've coached her in like finding  her drive and her passion and her purpose and and

coached her in the sense of not like meticulously  but but as a friend uh she's done the same for me

like when I met my wife I was someone who's really  focused on mental Mastery but I hadn't really

figured out what I did for my body I'd done a lot  for my mind and my heart but and my emotions but

but not for my body and when I met my wife like  she inculcated the belly for me working out more

regularly and eating more healthily and when I  met my wife I was addicted to Sugar I I still

love fried food I I still love sodas and my wife  was just like this ain't happening but again she

didn't call it out it wasn't like a oh you're  so unhealthy you just sit around and drink it

wasn't like that it was educating me and it was  enlightening me and it was helping me change my

habits and so yeah inspiring me and and it's  setting the example right I think setting the

example is far more a beautiful there's a quote  I use of Saint Francis in the book which says

um you should always preach wherever you are in  everything you do and if you need to use words

right the idea that your example your your  practice is what inspires people if you're working

really hard and you're a wonderful human being  that far more makes someone want to work hard then

you working hard and being a miserable human being  quick one intelligent of our podcast sponsors and

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when I started the podcast he was like you're  gonna absolutely kill it you'll have millions

of subscribers you'll be this big you'll be that  big so many people will listen and I don't know

if I believed it if I'm being completely honest  but he believed in Us in this show before we'd

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helped me and helped my health stay intact in  my busiest days over the last couple of years

to the episode I've always wondered this I'm  going to ask you a really tough question here

if your partner got to a state where you no  longer found them attractive at all you know

I'm gonna let the viewer decide what that might  look like right if your partner got to that state

what would you do I think because they weren't  taking care of themselves yeah yeah I I think my

honest answer would be I would like to approach  that and I believe I would because I think I've

shown it in different areas of my relationship not  in the physical sense have been The Compassion of

are you happy with where you are right now with  that person are you happy in the direction that

you're moving in is this the life you want is  has this been created out of pain or stress or

pressure or has this been created out of choice  and out of action right and I think getting to

understand that person's journey to that point  sets you up to understand where this is going

if that person then turns around and goes this is  exactly who I want to be and this is the person

I want to be and this is how I choose to live my  life I'm your partner yeah what do you say to me

yeah so I'm going down the angle of trying to  get to understand right like that that's what

I'm trying to do in this area they are completely  cool with everything correct because it's you're

you're the one that's Coast attraction yeah all  I'm trying to do in that scenario genuinely is

to understand where the person's at why they're  in that position and how long they think that's

going to last and so my next question would be  like that sounds awesome that sounds like a lot

of fun how long do you feel like that's where  you want to be now your answer maybe I feel

like that's how I want to live forever right  like that's that's the direction it's going in

I have very little control over that so what  do you do I would then if if I'd explored

that conversation try to understand first yes and  seeing that pattern for long enough because by the

way that pattern could last a week and it could be  over next week yeah and that person's now guilty

and shameful of and they're dealing with something  far deeper so I don't think this can ever be

oh wow that person for a month has gone in this  direct it's never that quick right yeah if you're

seeing over months and years that someone's  just going on a downward spiral they're not

opening up to you they're not opening up to a  therapist they're not opening up to their mum

their parents their sister they're not opening  up to a coach they're not opening up to their

friends like if you're seeing no sign of this  person doesn't feel they're going in they're

doing anything wrong by their account now you're  out of options of of controlling that so I think

there's many more layers before I don't think  this person's right for me anymore but I think

those layers and levels are time how long has this  lasted I think it's who are they honest and open

with because sometimes they may not be honest  and open with you because they're embarrassed

but they're being open and honest with someone  else their family their friends whoever else it

may be do you are you aware of that are you do  you even know the conversations they're having

and then if you're not attracted to someone I mean  you're well within your rights to to move on and

and get on with your life I mean how are you gonna  force yourself to if that's an important value for

you someone would say but physical attraction  isn't my number one value that's totally fine

too so you would stay with that person right like  if that's not your number one value is there a

point where you express how you feel absolutely  absolutely I think I think after understand I

think the biggest mistake that happens so I talk  about this in the book where I talk about things

that you find intolerable about your partner  right this comes under that category that you

find it intolerable that they don't take care of  themselves and now you're not attracted to them

I talk about going on this journey if you love  someone enough if you care about someone enough

you will want to go on the journey from  intolerable to understanding to acceptance

to potentially even admiring them for  who they are and where they've gone

that's the journey if you want this relationship  to last so if I find something intolerable The

Next Step isn't telling them how I feel the next  step is understanding why they're there how they

got there what their reasoning is and that takes  time that person isn't going to on day one they're

going to give you answers like you just gave  me on day 73 chances are someone's going to say

I'm feeling really bad about how I am right or  maybe not when you tell them huh I'm interested

in is how you communicate how you're feeling I so  I would say and I want to use a real life scenario

with my wife because I think it's easier to  talk about a real conversation we've had if

I felt emotionally disconnected from my wife  because we've both been traveling separately

we've both had a lot of work on we haven't really  found time to connect or be with us be without

the Deep be with each other deeply I often say  to her and I've said this throughout our whole

relationship I'll say to her is this relationship  going in the direction you wanted to go in

and that's a really open and Broad question she  could say yes she could say no and then my second

question is if it is going in the direction you  wanted to go in what's going well and then I'd say

if it isn't going in the direction you're going  in what do you need and what are you willing to do

and then I'd follow that up with do you mind if  I share mine do you mind if I if I share with you

if I feel this relationship's going in the right  direction or how I feel and so once I've heard

her out and seen where she's at I'm now going  to tell her exactly how I feel my way of saying

would be I've got to a place where I'm feeling  emotionally disconnected I'm feeling like I don't

feel like you're present with me I don't feel like  you're connected I don't feel like you want to

is that true and I'm checking if my emotional  instinct is real now in this case it's me saying

I honestly feel that over the last three  years I haven't been able to understand

I haven't really been able to gain context of why  you've made the choices you've made and I really

want to understand and deeply and there for you  to understand if these choices are aligned with

your values if they are those are not the values  that attract me those are not the values that make

me feel good about being in a relationship because  what I'm saying is if you found someone physically

attractive and now you find them physically  unattractive I promise you it's also based

on their values and choices it's not simply based  on how they look yeah that's too simplistic for a

modern day extreme powerful relationship so to me  I'm communicating my disconnect with that person's

choices and values I'm not simplifying it to just  how they look in the mirror that because that's

me isn't the truth because the truth is that  because they can change how they look in the

mirror but they don't want to is my issue with  it they don't want to they don't want to build

they don't want to be better in all the ways I  think they can be better right that they don't

see I don't feel like they want to improve I was I  was coaching someone who's uh partner was addicted

to porn right and they're addicted to porn their  partner found pictures and videos and all that

kind of stuff on their laptop and phone and all  the rest of it and we were working with them

and it was if that person didn't see a problem  with their addiction that's where you were at

but the the person's problem wasn't that they  were just addictive porn it was the lack of

transparency it was the lack of honesty it was the  lack of emotional connection the issue wasn't that

they were watching porn their issue was don't  you trust me enough to tell me that there's a

disconnect here that we don't have enough of a  relationship where you can share this with me

that was the issue that they were having so to  me I'm always trying to communicate empathy is

communicating at the root of the issue not with  the symptom of what you're experiencing and if

someone empathetically said to you Stephen I I  feel and this is my projection on you and you're

allowed to edit this I just feel that you're  worth so much more and I feel like you can make

so many better choices for yourself and I think  you have the ability to get there but I don't know

if you want that and if you don't want that that's  totally fine but that's the kind of partner I want

to be with would you never mention in that process  that you're not not attracted to them anymore

I wouldn't never not mention their direct thing I  just think that I'm more interested in Excavating

you're going around it's not going around it's  going under it's going deeper and deeper than

it's going deeper it's not going around going  around is saying like oh you know I'm just it's

not working out anymore like oh you know I'm just  seeing other people now like going around it is

like you know going around it is just saying yeah  I mean even one sense of going around it is just

like yeah I'm finding other people attract  whatever like you're going to the roots as

opposed to the leaves correct because I think  that not only helps the other person but it

helps me understand how to actually be there for  the person I love because I think that if you go

to the root that person has the opportunity to  say thank you that's how I feel but I just don't

know how to say it so I want to give the person  the opportunity to feel so heard when they can't

even hear their own voice but they can hear it  through my reflection on them where they can say

you know what you're right that is exactly how  I feel I know I can be so much better but and if

I can't find that in them then we're not meant to  be but I want to be that voice for someone because

they can't find that voice within themselves it's  so interesting because I imagine almost everybody

listening to this has those gripes with their  partner 100 whether you've been together for

five minutes or five years where you you go I just  she would be more like me or I just wish she would

do it like me I wish you would love what I love  and I've been there with my partner as well where

um I I suspect she wants me to be a bit more  interested in the things she's interested in

yeah and maybe vice versa um but then also we  have a different style of communication and all

of these things and going back a couple of years  we had a problem with sex which we had to confront

where one day she turned around to me and and said  that she was wasn't interested in sex we've talked

about this publicly before yeah um and the journey  I went on to understand all of that the question

I'm trying to ask is like Dave or Rebecca who's  listening to this right now who wants to wants

to change something about [ __ ] Rebecca wants  to change something about Dave he's all he's

always he doesn't care about me he doesn't give  me the quality time all of those things what's the

path that Rebecca should take to deliver that to  Dave yeah at what point should she go [ __ ] Dave

you know what I mean because because it's a  success is a team sport in this record right

first thing I'm going to say is stop trying  to change anyone because people don't change

for people they change for themselves like stop  trying to change anyone people do not change for

you they don't change for me they change for  themselves and if they don't want to change

they're not changing and if you want to change  your partner chances are they're not the right

person for you and by the way anyone you date  you'll always want to change because somehow

deep inside of you you believe that the values  you were brought up with and what you think is

right is what everyone in the world should do and  so the core issue again going to the route is us

and our projection like is my wife any less of an  amazing human being because she lives differently

to me no and I think that relationships are  so much more about learning to respect other

people's values than they are to make them  value what we value I think the biggest issue

we're having in relationships right now is we're  saying well I like this why don't you like it

relationships are saying I love that you love  that and I love this you go do your thing I'll

go do mine why do I want to force my partner to  come watch a football game with me if they hate

football I'd rather go watch it with someone that  loves football and why is she gonna force me to go

do something that I don't want to do I don't  think that that's compromise or connection I

think that's ruining relationships quite frankly  so I think going to the core of the answer now

I'll coach through Dave and Rebecca but I think  going to the root of it it's just the issue of

stop trying to change people if you're trying  to change them then you don't love them you love

their potential you love a version of them that  you think they can become that's not them and

stop trying to make them that version because  if you're in love with who someone could be

then you're not in love with them and accept that  and I don't think we want to accept that we want

to think that we're better greater human beings  because we see something better for someone and

there are projects and they're a project and I  talk about that in the book the idea that you know

the project or there are three roles we play in  relationships one is the fixer we want to find

someone to fix and the other is we play the role  of the project so we want to be fixed by someone

else so we're looking for that person and really  the right thing we want to be is the supporter the

partner the true equal the true person who adds  value to the other person sometimes takes on the

role of the fixer sometimes is the project but  overall is coming at it from a point of working

on this together as you said a team sport and  so when it comes to Rebecca and Dave ultimately

the deepest most beautiful question your  partner can ask you is where do you want to be

and do you want my help getting there and if the  answer to that question is something you don't

like then it comes to the end of it because you're  not going to change them by manipulating them by

controlling them by forcing them by coming up with  a magic trick it's just not going to happen like I

think so many people say to me Jay just you know  my my partner just won't read your book I really

want them to read your book and I'm like please  don't do that to them you're about to push that

person over the edge and guess what not only are  they not going to read my book They're not going

to be interested in personal development or  growth because now you've given it a bad taste

half the atheists in the world exists because  religion failed them it wasn't that they became

an atheist out of choice because they were like  oh I'm just going to be an atheist it's because

they saw someone as part of a religion that failed  them and so when it whether it's personal growth

whether it's Health whether it's mindfulness  whether it's yoga whatever your latest trend

is that you're into forcing your partner to get  into it is going to push them away far more then

it's going to excite them and entice them and  there's a message underlying there which I which

I felt in my life where someone's pushing you to  do something or to check something out and they're

doing it very aggressively yeah I'm I'm trying  to read between the lines yes I'm saying you know

Steve please read this book I go oh this is where  I'll read that as here is she's presenting me with

a flaw that I have totally because the book is  about I don't know how to be great in bed yeah

and she's like babe please read this book I'm  thinking well what you're actually saying to me

is I'm not good in bed yeah yeah totally totally  so there's always that's the problem when you're

dealing with love again isn't it totally and  you're not love means to understand why someone

makes the choices they make and most of us don't  even know why they make those choices and we want

them to make our choices that's as simple as it is  you said something so amazing which I thought was

um that question that Rebecca should be asking  Dave which I've never really thought about before

which is the first question you should ask them is  like where do they want their life to go and where

do they see this relationship going and then  instead of trying to interfere with that and

design it yourself and muddle with it just see if  it matches up to your vision of the relationship

I imagine most people listening to this now  haven't done that exercise with their partner

where they they haven't asked their partner by the  way like what is your vision for this relationship

in US yeah and even your own life yeah it'd  be interesting you know yeah I think also just

trying to I think the reason why we haven't had  that conversation is most of us don't even know

our vision so the reason why we haven't done that  with a partner is because we don't know the answer

to our own question and so before you ask that  question you should have your own idea I know what

I want my vision of a relationship is we wake up  excited to see each other every day we go to bed

uh feeling accomplished and fulfilled throughout  the day we make time to connect on understanding

where each other's lives are going where  they intertwine and where they separate

and we support each other in the goals I break it  down into three things in the book I talk about

uh liking each other's personality and the way  I Define that's the first one of the three what

I mean by that is there's an amazing study that  was done that said that in order for someone to

be considered a casual friend you have to spend  40 hours with them in order for someone to be

considered a friend you have to spend 100 hours  with them and for someone to be considered a good

friend a great friend you have to spend 200 hours  with them what are we so we're we're nothing right

now Stephen we we're we're not doing very well on  that list now having said that we've also had very

deep time like we're always opening our entire  souls and hearts to each other so it's it's a

different type of relationship but the point  is liking someone's personality is do I want

to spend 200 hours with them that's how I like  to break it down is do I see myself spending 200

hours with this person trying to understand them  the second is do I respect their values you will

only know their values if you ask them if you're  aware if you can see how they spend their time

and money most people don't like the way their  partner spends their time and money which means

you don't like their values but you're still with  them because you like something else about them

but the values are the core of who that person  is as a human being and then the third is do you

want to help them achieve their goals that's love  love means that you want to help them get to where

they want to get to but most of us don't even  know where our partners want to go or where we

want to go so we're struggling with like three  fundamental things that define love and we'll

never know because we're trying to patch it up  with all the other stickers that come up uh in

making us feel good yeah you said Point number  one there which was waking up to them every day

now when you when you said that I thought [ __ ]  every day like well not every day but I'm saying

whenever you're in the same yeah but that's what  my brain did well every day like yeah and then

that brought my mind to this point about the  role of distance yes in your relationship yes

I've tested this love big time both ways okay tell  me what you've done so my wife and I have been

together for 10 years so it's not long and it's  not short it's like you know it's a good amount

of time uh and we've spent up to six months apart  a year sometimes and we've spent as little as

two months apart a year so we've varied in  those 10 years anywhere from two months to

six months a year I've not seen each other based  on work schedules priorities Etc and I was always

someone who believed that distance was really  good for relationships I think it's healthy to

miss each other I think it's healthier if you have  a plan of how you're going to be apart and I think

it's even healthier if you have a plan of how to  reconnect after the time apart and I think that's

where relationships and distance go wrong most  relationships in distance are either by default

or with no consciousness so we just ended up not  seeing each other for x amount of time whether

that's one week one month or whatever it may  be that unconscious time of not being with each

other is not healthy for a relationship you don't  know why you're disconnected you don't know for

how long you don't know how you're reconnecting  and you don't know how you're staying in touch

that's not good quality time away so that's how to  make time work for you six months is too long six

months doesn't work I've tried and tested it it's  really bad uh it took six months after six months

to reconnect and I'm not I literally felt like  it was like a rule that for every day I was apart

I had to spend a day of quality time with that  person to refine and ReDiscover and to sustain

and to evolve and grow a relationship and I  literally felt that six months apart took me

six months with my wife to get back to where we  were before those six months especially because

some of those six months happened unconsciously  and so unconscious time apart isn't healthy and

unconscious reconnection isn't healthy and that  was six months of conscious reconnection after six

months of unconscious disconnectedness that helped  us connect again and I'd never want to do that

again it was it was too painful to look at someone  and someone you love and someone you feel you've

really achieved something with to kind of feel  like you had to rebuild it all again it was it

was too much and and I don't want to do that again  and so I'm changing the way I feel about distance

I'm always going to make it conscious it's always  communicated and some of the habits I've set up

that have been really helpful is I also set  up not even just disconnection physically but

time poverty and emotional so  I'm going on tour this year

and when I go on tour this year I'm going to be on  the road in the US for three weeks in total which

is quite normal for me and my wife to be apart for  three weeks so but it's communicated it's in the

calendar and then I come back to LA for a month  and I've kept that whole schedule free because I

want to plan a few trips with my wife we may even  go on a vacation whatever it may be and then after

that I go on my world tour which is another four  weeks or five weeks of cities all across Europe

India Asia and Australia and my wife will pop into  a couple of cities but she's not going to come on

the whole tour with me and so again I'm like okay  which cities are you going to be in which weekends

am I going to take off which nights am I going to  be with you and then what are we going to do when

I reconnect after the world tour it's now coming  from a completely conscious organized space just

as I would organize work just as I would deal  with a business partner you just can't take

a relationship for granted it just will break it  will Wilt Away Paul Brunson taught me something um

he he was on the podcast and he he said that him  and his wife had to make a rule he's from America

he's had to fly all over the world to do these TV  shows Etc he said we have a rule where if we're

if an opportunity invites us to be a part for more  than two weeks we either go together or I don't go

I know he's obviously got you know kids and  things like that and I really thought that

was really amazing yeah difficult that's difficult  it's very difficult yeah I don't disagree with it

I just think that so he posted on his Instagram  the amazing I've just been given an opportunity

of a lifetime but for practical reasons me and my  partner can't go together yes I've turned it down

and I think everyone needs to come up with  their own version of that rule yeah because

that's such a it's a great Rule and if him and  his partner have committed to that and that's

my hope with the book with the rules it's like  come up with your own relationship rules like

one of ours is every 30 days we spend three  days together without our phones and we drive

somewhere three hours away from our home in La  and spend that time together and that's been a

healthy habit for us every month because I don't  think I want to wait for our annual vacation to

spend quality time together and so whether you're  spending one hour together every week undisturbed

without your phones I also think that one of the  things I talk about is the levels of connection so

I had a friend who just got back from vacation  with her partner and straight after that she was

like but I didn't feel like we spent any time  together and when she told him that he said

well we just spent three days together what do you  mean and when I asked her well if you spent three

days together what do you mean she said well  he was on his iPad or he was on his phone or

he was on his laptop we weren't actually together  and I said well you're not asking for time you're

asking for presents and you're asking for energy  so often our vocabulary is wrong you know we're

saying I want you to come home from work on time  that's not what you're saying what you're saying

is I want to spend time where we share energy  and interact together but we're using the wrong

language and so a we're not communicating what  we want but more interestingly I found that and

everyone can do this and I and I really want  people to take this in and really let it sit

most of us only do one thing with our partners  and it's watching TV and that is the lowest form

of intimacy that you could possibly ask for with  any human being if you and I watch TV together

for 200 hours a year we would potentially be no  closer than we were before yet with our partners

all we do is stay glued to a box for hours every  day waste minutes searching for what to watch and

then maybe having a quick little chat about it  and switching it off so I have this pyramid of

intimacy and entertainment's on the lowest rung of  the ladder but that's what the majority of couples

are doing so if we're only watching TV together I  promise you that relationship is not growing it's

actually falling apart slowly and you have no idea  and I know that's a painful truth to accept but

it is it is An Inconvenient Truth so higher than  that and that's why it's a ladder there's there's

other steps instead of entertainment I'm really  interested in people doing experiences together

something new something fresh and experiment  together what I mean by that is how can you

both do something that you both are not experts  at often what we do in relationships is we say

oh well I love football come watch football with  me or I love this come watch this with me I love

this band comment experience this band with me  what we're doing is we're creating an expert and

student mentality I'm going to teach you what the  offside rule is I'm going to teach you about uh

this this this music and this whatever else it  may be right we're we're kind of creating that

idea that I know something you don't and what  that does in a relationship is it doesn't create

a shared experience a shared experience is when  we both go somewhere where we both don't have a

lot of experience and now we get to discover new  things about our partner now we get to see them

in a new scenario now we get to make ourselves  both feel vulnerable TV is not vulnerable so when

we're talking about creating vulnerability it's  not just in conversation it's in us both doing

an escape room that we've never done before now  we're vulnerable without even trying right we're

both going to go and be part of an experiment  experience that we've never done before because

it helps us be vulnerable maybe we're going to  try a new sport that we never play together me

and my wife tried surfing last year never done it  before this year we tried wakeboarding never done

it before we both look like fools both can't do  it to save our lives actually she's much better

than me so I'll give her the credit but the point  is that the more you put yourself in uncomfortable

new experiences and experiments and by the way  I've given a range of examples it could literally

be you know going to an art class together or  going to Pottery together or whatever it may

be it can be the most basic thing do something  where neither of you know anything about it your

vulnerability skyrockets without having to have a  heart-to-heart conversation higher than that level

is education go and learn together maybe there is  a book that you can both read together maybe there

is a podcast you can listen together maybe there  is a retreat that you both want to go on maybe

there is a course that you both really want to do  or alternatively you both commit to doing separate

things but you report back and talk about it  one of you is learning an art one of you is

learning self-development now you're sharing your  exclusive learning Journeys with each other you're

both growing together and then the highest thing  is serving together go to a soup kitchen go to

a homeless shelter go somewhere that inspires you  both that affects you both and go and help go and

serve go and improve the world together when you  think about any of those three out of the four yes

they take a bit more planning yes they take a bit  more time than watching TV actually maybe you know

I had argue that takes the same amount of time  the quality of your relationship will Skyrocket

immensely by doing any of those three out of the  four then just switching on the Telly and I think

too many of us are you know losing our partners  losing ourselves and losing our relationships

because we're expecting a TV show made by people  who don't really care about your relationship

uh to entertain us it brings me to chapter five of  your book where you say purpose comes first yeah

and there's a quote I wrote down which is for any  of us to bring the best version of ourselves to

our relationship we have to pursue our own purpose  in Hinduism it's called our Dharma yeah what is

our Dharma what are the four you know you talk  about these four fundamental Pursuits that drive

us forward in life yeah so The Vedas talk about  these four Pursuits in life who's Vedas The Vedas

v-e-d-a-s are the uh kind of umbrella scriptures  the umbrella spiritual texts that have all of this

life advice and wisdom that I share from from that  context so The Vedas are the particular texts and

they have these four Pursuits of life and they are  Dharma artha Karma and Moksha and I'll describe

each word because those old Sanskrit words so  Dharma is purpose uh we'll dive into that one

more deeply Arthur uh and and all of my work is  pretty much dedicated to this and I'll break it

down to my own language to make it to make it  simpler for everyone I believe that there are

four important decisions that we all get to make  in life the first one is how I feel about myself

the second one is what do I do to make money we  all need money what do we do for it the third is

who do I decide to love and receive love from  and the fourth is how do I choose to serve the

world how do I choose to impact the world and  so these are the four main Pursuits that The

Vedas espouse Dharma is your purpose and who  you are Arthur is economic development karma

is relationships and connection and milkshake's  Liberation or service or like ultimate giving

uh and so those are the four Pursuits and it's  really interesting to me that Dharma is placed

as the first Pursuit not love and it's really  interesting because you look at people they

did a study on uh people graduated from graduating  from college and they asked them that if you were

to get married in the next five years or stay  single what would be your happiness prediction

the majority of people predicted that if they got  married their happiness would be at eight but if

they remain single their happiness would be at a  three that perception is mind-blowing to me they

believe that if they're in a relationship their  happiness would go to an eight if they were single

would be a three the reality is if they stayed  single and they did the happiness stayed at a

seven and so their perception of loneliness their  perception of being alone was far greater and so a

lot of us skip purpose because we find connection  is an easier solve to our internal unhealing so

we feel that if I'm with someone I'm gonna feel  better about myself than if I have to do that work

myself and is this in order yes okay so karma is  essentially pleasuring connection correct this is

your relationship with others people prioritize  that as being number one number one exactly and

that's what I'm saying is the mistake that you're  hoping that someone is going to come and heal your

wounds without doing it yourself which is why  we're living in a world where you know the right

person could come into your life and reduce drama  and the wrong person comes into your life and

increases trauma and that's the experience that  we're having that we're coming from these unhealed

places where we don't know our purpose we don't  know our values we don't know our goals we mesh

with someone else who doesn't know their purpose  doesn't know their values and doesn't know their

goals and it leads to confusion it leads to broken  hearts it leads to abuse it leads to manipulation

and control and so I do this very simply and  I ask couples that I work with and I've worked

with I've been coaching a lot of couples over the  last few years especially while writing this book

and I ask couples that I'm working with to rate  their top three priorities in order including

themselves and I remember doing this with a lot of  couples and one particular couple and the man said

you the kids me and the woman said me the kids you  and when we had this discussion he was heartbroken

he said how could you put yourself above the kids  he goes I'm not mad that I'm number three I'll

take that all day but how did you put yourself  above the kids how could you even do that sounds

like he's mad at being number three he's just  using the kids in this game what about me yeah

and it was really interesting because she she gave  the answer that I think me and you would you know

validate and agree with that she was like but if  I don't fill my own bottle if I don't film my own

cup if I'm not my best self what am I giving  to you guys I'm giving you leftovers and she's

saying that it's not that the kids are second  on my list because I don't care about them and

if they needed me they're going to be second it's  more that I know that I have to invest in myself

and so I think we live in a world where we think  sacrificing our purpose makes us a better partner

we think the self-sacrifice and the self-sabotage  of our own goals and our own Pursuits makes us a

better person when actually it doesn't  it makes us more resentful more guilty

more upset and I'm saying that because  I've seen people who gave up their dreams

for decades only in their 50s and 60s to look  back and go when the kids left to go I wish

I never gave up on my dreams so I'm not saying  this as Theory I'm saying this is sitting down

with people working with people and seeing people  throw away their own purpose in the pursuit of

I think that sacrificing it makes me a better  human being it really reminded me then of my

best performing quote ever okay I want to hear it  this is the best performing quote I've ever had

so much so that actually when I Googled it  it's attributed to someone else which is really

oh it's crazy I just Googled it right and  this person is too exact same thing which I

actually wrote about my ex-girlfriend and  it's got 150 000 likes on Twitter and 75

000 retweets it did better than what I posted  that that's crazy isn't it that's amazing but

um the quote is I'm actually just going to read  those yeah because um I'll read mine yeah it's

the exact same thing word for word is if we're  dating I want to be your second priority I want

your first priority to be you your Ambitions your  life and your future because my priority right now

is me and mine and finding happiness and security  alone is crucial to us finding it together

and I wrote that actually in response to my my  ex-girlfriend who made me really realize that that

um we're gonna have no relationship we're  gonna have no security We're not gonna have any

happiness if we haven't first found that to some  extent together and I've always almost criticized

that perspective of my of mine I thought Steve  is that because you're selfish and you're into

you know and you're ambitious you just want to  be or is there truth in that and I and there's

this in during question I have which is what role  is your partner meant to play and we've kind of

talked about a little bit but in fixing you do you  have to be completely happy before you meet them

or do you do you have can you rely on them  to make you happy yeah and by the way it's

only not unselfish so yes what you just said  in self-reflection it is a completely selfish

idea if you don't afford your partner the same  flexibility and openness to live that way right

so it is selfish if you say I'm gonna go achieve  this I want to go build this life and by the way

you've got to come with me you've got to be if I  was saying this hypothetically to my wife you've

got to be on every flight I take next year I I  my work's really important I'm saving the world

I'm doing a world tour you come with me if you  have that belief that is completely selfish and

ego based but if my belief is yes this is  my calling this is what I'm meant to do on

this planet and I'm really moved by that but my  wife's got an amazing calling herself and I get

so much more attracted to her watching her live  her calling my wife becomes more attractive to

me amen the more she lives her purpose not your  wife I'm talking about mine yeah yeah yeah yeah

like my wife doesn't become attractive to  me because she's helping me in my purpose by

just following and tagging along do you know how  she'll become even more attractive if she opens

that restaurant yeah I know that would like you  know put it right up there but yeah the idea that

you know I and so I think there is a selfishness  right and I wanted to caveat that um so I'm not

saying you need to be perfectly happy I'm saying  you need to know who you are yeah you need to

know your values currently and you need to know  your goals currently all those things will change

and evolve as you grow and evolve but if you've  done the practice of understanding that at this

point you're going to be better at communicating  articulating and evolving and sharing it again

when it changes what if I'm really hurt I was  cheated on I was in a seven year relationship

and thinking about one of my friends I was in  a seven year relationship I was cheated on now

I'm insecure I you know I've low self-esteem is  it relationship time no not at all not one bit

because that's the point that we're talking about  where you skip step one you've skipped Dharma and

you've leaned into Karma because you don't want  to sort Dharma Dharma is making sense of who you

are and who you want to be and and what your  role in this world is and I feel that when you

walk into a relationship with that insecurity it  now ruins potentially the safest secure person

that you could have been with and so I'm going  I was just going to say you know this is this is

who am I to judge I had all of my own BS to deal  with and overcome and understand about myself

um much of which I've talked about many times  before but if I if I was to take a cross-section

of the people in my life that are struggling  relationships almost every single one of them

has skipped the first stage which has the hard  stage you know the thing about that first stage

is a lot of people just don't feel like they  have the time yes especially we're all getting

a little bit older you know things have changed  in society which means people are getting in less

relationships and they're getting in them later  in life so some people feel that they have a clock

and that means that when they think look Jay  I'm X years old today and you're telling me

to do this Dharma and this Arthur I need  to get to Karma I need to find this guy

and what we don't realize is that the work that  you skip in step one and two you're gonna have

to do with another person yeah and that work doing  it with them is going to slow the quality of that

relationship down potentially ruin a great thing  and push someone away amen and and actually make

a mess of the situation and so it's kind of like a  game where it's like you could have the cheat code

that skips you to 10 but the skills of levels one  to nine help you win at ten yeah but if you skip

the game because you had the cheat code or you  tried to rush it or you got a pirated version or

whatever it is you now can't win at level number  10 and I think we don't realize that what the Game

of Life does is it pushes you back to learn the  lessons you haven't learned yet so you get into a

relationship out of insecurity that person breaks  up with you you're back to being insecure again

then you get into another relationship to solve  your insecurity that person breaks up with you

and then you get insecure again you're constantly  pushed into saying deal with this insecurity alone

fix it figure it out learn about it get curious  about it and by the way when you do that next

time you walk into a relationship a you'll  know or have more chance of knowing whether

that person's going to be right or wrong but if  it's right you're going to be able to make it work

and you're not going to push away something that's  powerful and to summarize these steps so Dharma is

um as written here in the book purpose clarifies  your values and priorities um to yourself and your

partner that's really working on yourself step two  Arthur is working towards stability in terms of

your finances health self-development and personal  growth and once you're there you're ready for some

comma which is pleasure and connection um which  is basically relationships with others it's so

interesting one of the questions I did want to ask  you today before we um before you even got here

was exactly this I actually had a conversation an  hour before you arrived with a friend of mine who

is um in her mid-30s and is really struggling with  relationships and um I was having a conversation

with her about it and it's all the things we  just talked about which is like she feels like

she's running out of time yeah she feels like  there's the world has changed and it's now all

digital and like she's not meeting enough people  she thinks maybe if I go get my hair done and this

done and I get that done or if I get a membership  to Soho house maybe then I'll [ __ ] meet a guy

and like what you must encounter these people  in your DMs over and over again that are saying

that I'm nearly 40 years old I'm single it's  not working for me what's your advice to those

people well I think the first thing I'd say  is it is hard it is a really tough time to

be single right now compared to what it was  like a few years ago like it is much harder

with the landscape and how it's changed like  25 50 years ago you'd meet someone who lived

in a one to five mile radius from your home you  wouldn't even be thinking about having a long

distance relationship in the same way whereas  today you're meeting anyone and everyone all

across the world you have an app that connects  you to anyone in that location an area wherever

you just got off a plane so there is complexity  there's more choice now there's the Paradox of

choice of well there's plenty of fish in the  sea and if this doesn't work out there's so

many more people and other people that are  thinking about you and you're worried about

that so it is much harder and so I don't want to  get away from that like I don't want to negate

the fact that dating today and finding love is  hard it's why I wrote the book uh I think that

what I'm encouraging for people to understand  is that a having all those insecurities

around relationships doesn't put you in the best  decision-making profile to make the right decision

so all of that stress and all of that insecurity  and all of that anxiety is more likely to push you

into a relationship that is unhealthy and toxic  than it is to help you move in the right direction

so first of all I just want you to accept that  making a decision from your current mindset is

not going to help you make a good one it's just  not going to work you're more likely to settle

for someone you're more likely to give in for  something less than you deserve because right

now you're just happy with anything you're  just happy with someone who texts you back

and that's not the relationship you want to be  in so first I would accept that this mindset

is not going to help you the mindset that is  going to help you is okay let if I figure out

three simple things just what I like and what I  don't like about myself and in life not about a

person I'm not asking to even think about  a person what do I like and not like as me

what are my values personally right now like  what's valuable to me not about this person

what's valuable to me and what are my goals if you  figure out those three things you're more likely

to meet people how if you know what you like and  dislike you're gonna spend time in places that

you like and dislike where you're more likely to  meet people that have similar likes and dislikes

or that at least you can connect with second if  you know your values you're more likely to know

who to ask for an introduction to someone because  you know who knows who you know that that friend

of yours is more likely to know someone who has  a similar value because they're of that value and

then goals make it easier to figure out whether  it's going to go somewhere so you actually speed

up and simplify a really tough selection process  because our whole society has set us up to say

right list of what you want in a person write a  list of what you want in yourself like just write

a list of like who are you what my values and what  are my goals and you figured that out it becomes

so much more easier to weed it out and so I would  encourage you to say this isn't uh you don't have

to become a monk for three years you don't have to  go and like live in a Mountaintop you don't have

to go on a yoga retreat like I'm not telling you  to do this for like decades you could do this in

three months if you wanted to like this isn't like  a decade-long process there's something really

interesting here about like delaying gratification  just generally I was actually reading yesterday

um about the people that delay gratification in  their lives and those that don't and why from a

physiological standpoint some people don't delay  gratification I was reading about the marshmallow

test yeah yeah which I'm sure you've heard about  um and some of the factors that are at play there

is when people are stressed you know um in the  case of a marshmallow it creates a dopamine hit

which is a feel-good you know chemical for  the reward center in your brain so one can

understand why you would reach for the marshmallow  if you were feeling stressed and you needed that

dopamine hair one of them is also self-esteem  yeah which is if your self-esteem is low

and you're looking for the same kind of dopamine  hit you get from having a [ __ ] bad one-night

stand with the wrong person it's much harder to  delay your gratification and make good long-term

decisions in line with your values if your  self-esteem is low so all of these things point

to this like fundamental which I think people Miss  in our society because we live in a society where

I'd rather have it now I'd rather go to a surgeon  and get it fixed I'd rather you know do it on

Photoshop than actually do the work it's like  doing the work a you don't see but who the [ __ ]

wants to do the work totally is like doing that  the foundational stuff is the answer to all of the

stuff you see on the outside like and and you know  what you're saying with that example is that you

also you also attract what you use to impress so  if you use something specific to impress someone

that's the quality and vibration of energy you're  attracting so if I use money money like I did

yeah to attract someone which works perfectly  well you're attracting someone who values that

about you yes if you use your only your physical  appearance obviously we're all attracted to each

other and that's fine like but if you only use  your physical appearance and you believe that's

your only asset and you're playing the game of  just showing off that guess what you're gonna

try that's a really important question because  that solves something for one of the people I'm

thinking about in my head this person she's  obviously she's a friend but somebody that I

know and um she's using her outstanding Beauty to  attract people yeah and it's failed to over and

over again because she's attracting the wrong type  of person with the wrong type of values in her own

words and in my to bring this back to myself there  was this phase between 18 and 23 I'm gonna say

where all I used to attract girls was bottles of  Dom Perignon in a club I would buy five bottles of

Dom Perignon at night you know bring the sparklers  and it was like a mousetrap yeah but I was I was

attracting the wrong type of values yeah because  I was the wrong type of values correct and you and

you don't think that and and the worst part  about that for your friend is that it's not

just an issue that the guy she attracts value only  that about her the biggest issue is she's setting

herself to only value that about her amen which  means when someone leaves her for that reason

it just plays into the belief of I'm not good  enough there's this beautiful uh Fable story

that I love to share and it's about a kid who  finds like a gem in his house like a stone and

he goes up to his dad and he says how much is this  Stone worth Dad what's the value of this Stone

and the dad says I want you to go out to the  baker and when you go out to the baker say

that you're selling the stone and when they  ask you how much it is hold up two fingers

and so the kid said okay I'll do that the kid  ran out went to the baker the baker said oh

that looks nice how much are you selling it  for kid held up two fingers the baker said oh

two dollars I'll take it so the kid ran back and  the kids said Dad their Baker off for two dollars

the dad said okay now I want you to go to an  antique shop and I want you to show them the jewel

uh the the stone and when you show them the  stone I want you to hold up two fingers again

so the boy runs off and the antique person says  oh that's a nice Stone how much is it and the boy

holds up two fingers and he says oh 200 200  okay yeah I'll take it and the boy runs back

and then and then Dad says okay now I want you to  go to this jeweler in this rare store of gems and

stones and jewels and go up and do the same thing  the boy runs back goes to this shows the stone

holds up two fingers and the Jeweler says oh two  thousand dollars I'll take it and you know that

story to me is really the story that we're all  going through where we're letting someone else

Define our worth by what we showed them and how  all those people are going to rate you based on

their own knowledge and their own experience so  if you're a person of low vibration and insecurity

and anxiety and you're letting someone Define you  at two dollars worth that's what you're getting

whereas if you've already priced yourself and  this is my worth this is who I am this is my value

you'll never let someone undervalue you and that's  the challenge today is that because we don't value

ourselves and we're letting someone else value  us we are being undervalued by every person

we date and meet and that's how everyone feels  everyone feels like that stone that is undervalued

because you're not being perceived by the right  people for the right things it's so true and

um it you know I wasn't going to ask this question  but it tees up because I always think about you

know Sophia who's listening to this and it's just  heard you say that and she's going I completely

agree Jay the next question is how do I genuinely  not [ __ ] how do I genuinely value myself more

I'm not just saying it in the mirror and writing  it down how do I genuinely value myself more so

that I can get better from the world so so this  is and I love what you just said I don't believe

that value comes from a journal or a conversation  with yourself in a mirror please buy the diary

and I love Journal

journalists what's really interesting is self  value real self-worth comes from doing hard things

we keep talking about self-love we keep talking  about loving yourself believing in yourself

that happens naturally when you go through  something difficult everyone who's listening right

now I guarantee you has been through something  difficult maybe they lost a friend maybe they've

been through cancer maybe they lost their job and  had to rebuild maybe they completely got destroyed

during the pandemic and had to figure everything  out with their health the point is we've all done

hard things and self-worth and self-value comes  from recognizing the hardship you've been through

and the growth that you made during that time  now if you're someone who's listening and saying

Jay well I'm not sure I've been through anything  that challenging well that's your challenge go and

figure out what it is that you want to do that's  hard is it developing a new skill is it getting

a qualification is it starting that business or  dream that you've always wanted to do what's that

difficult thing you're gonna do on your own with  your friends with the support of whoever's around

you but not with the crutch or the handicap of a  partner what are you gonna build as a skill as a

tool as a value yourself that's going to make you  say I've done something and that's the beginning

of it the beginning is I've done something and I  did that and I can do that and when you do that

yes there's going to be you're going to validate  the wrong things you're gonna you're gonna you're

gonna give yourself praise for the wrong things  you're gonna go through ego you're going to do

all of that but there's still a belief if I can  do hard things I can do hard things by myself

and I know what value I bring to a relationship  you were just talking about doing hard things

so let's talk about sex sex is a huge part of  relationships yeah and one of the one of the

really interesting things I want to talk to you  about is if again if I look at my friendship group

my small friendship group of maybe six guys  right my best friends I'd say three of them are

currently having a really really hard time as it  relates to sex with their partner um for a variety

of reasons reason number one that I've heard my  partner doesn't like having sex we have sex once

every three months reason number two I've heard  my partner doesn't like the way that I have sex

on those first two points I'm horrified surprised  that so many people I speak to are struggling in

that department yeah with sex and there's not the  conversation around sex is either non-existent or

porn influenced yeah what's your take on sex  and what's going on I'm so glad you brought it

up because I I think that because of social  media there's this image that everyone else

is having sex and I'm not like I feel like that's  like a very big feeling that a lot of people have

and all the stats show the people having less  and less sex there are more and more sexless

relationships and marriages every single year  and it's so much more common yet in our groups

and online everyone feels like oh they're getting  some and they're getting some and they're getting

some but I'm not and the truth is most people  are not getting any and and that's just I don't

have the stats offhand right now but whenever I've  looked at the trends that's what the trends show

to me it comes back down to everything  we've just been talking about

sexual chemistry and attraction and connection is  all based on a how someone feels about themself

if someone themselves is not feeling  taken care of by themselves attractive

investing in themselves growing feeling like  they're becoming more and better it's very

unlikely that they're going to want to share  their body mind emotions and heart with anyone

else in the most physically intimate way which  is sex it's just unlikely and chances are if

you don't think you're having those conversations  you want to have with your partner where you are

being open where they are working on their  values where we do see each other striving

chances are that you're not going to want to  have sex with them either and so what we're

seeing is that the challenge we're having in sex  is actually coming from everything else that's

going on that there isn't a sense of growth Joy  purpose like great sex is a byproduct of great

connection and intimacy it's not a replacement  for or a source of if I asked everyone who's

listening right now put your hand up if you've had  amazing sex but no connection in a relationship

right like that's that's been real we've all  used sex as a crutch we've had relationships

where every time we argued we had sex it solved  the problem every time something was going wrong

we had sex it was figured out somehow and the  study showed that the chemicals released during

sex make you feel like you're getting closer even  though you're not actually emotionally closer

so when you look at all of the stats when you look  at all the research when you look at everything

we've just described sex is a byproduct of a  healthy individual and a healthy individual and a

growing individual and a growing individual coming  together sorting out their differences having the

fights they need to have having the conversations  they do that naturally creates vulnerability which

leads to being able to expose ourselves at the  deepest most um physical way that we possibly

can how can you expose yourself that vulnerably if  if you can't even have a vulnerable conversation

with your partner because you just switch on  the TV every night and avoid that difficult

conversation becomes like a transaction it becomes  a transaction and then sex becomes in the best

case a crutch and uh and a hopeful aspiration on  a special night or whatever it may be or something

we wait for and plan for and it never works out  as opposed in the worst case it just becomes

something we're both not talking about comfortable  about or even doing and so for an obligation

exactly yes yes yeah like an obligation someone's  just sitting there like you know come on three

minutes literally yeah all right let's get it  over and done with like that mindset and I'm like

well like there isn't because we've lost Intimacy  in relationships there is no intimacy and so you

can't force it physically there's no Intimacy  in porn there's no Intimacy in porn for sure I

don't like do the small talk I don't no pay  for that exactly there's no Intimacy in porn

there's no in and the problem is and this is  you know the book starts with this quote but

it solves this problem very very neatly  and carefully and it's this idea that

the Buddha was once approached and asked what's  the difference between I like you and I love you

which is a brilliant question and the Buddha  replied when you like a flower you simply pluck it

but when you love a flower you water it every day

and to me the one night stand the porn the  dopamine hit the release of chemical is the

plucking right that's what we're all plucking  all day long because that's all we can do

but the watering the intimacy developing  intimacy growing from entertainment to

experiments to experiences to education to  engaging in service together all of this

creates so much intimacy that physical intimacy is  a natural byproduct it's not something you have to

manage or engineer or manufacture like it's not  this separate thing it's it's based on how close I

feel to you and the point is when don't feel close  to our partners because we don't do anything that

makes us closer every day sleeping in the same  bed as someone does not make you close to someone

living in the same house as someone does not make  you close to someone the only thing that makes you

feel close to someone is when you feel you can be  open and when you feel seen heard and understood

in your most vulnerable darkest and open times  if you can do that everything else is going to

work but if you can't do that you can't just  make it happen in a moment because you're meant

to be together you're meant to be in love what  about masturbation do you think it do you think

masturbation to porn helps or hurts relationships  I think in the long term it hurts I think it's

unhealthy because it's an avoidance and an Escape  right that's the point it's like what is it being

used as it's not being used as self-connection or  self-understanding it's been used as escape and

avoidance of the actual topic and all that's doing  is rewiring your brain for false expectations

diminishing returns as well all the studies that  I did look at showed that porn is making you work

harder you're gonna have to find something more  extreme all the stats that I saw showed that you

had to watch more extreme porn to get the same  feeling so the most searched porn and the most

watched porn was abusive uh sometimes violent  sometimes rough hardcore all the Search terms

were more extreme to get the same feeling because  of the diminishing returns of the chemicals that

are being released and so now you're rewiring your  brain to not feel as much pleasure from normal sex

or more traditional conventional sex you're now  saying that I'm only going to feel pleasure from

sex when it's potentially abusive violent somewhat  rough hardcore whatever else it may be so I think

that's massively unhealthy there's something it  does to expectations as well and expectations

of the key of that's what we're saying yeah your  expectations of sex become completely unrealistic

your expectations of intimacy are just thrown  out the window there must be so many people

listening to this both men and women because both  sexes do watch porn it's quite naive everyone to

assume it's just men that are jacking off in  there of course in their bedrooms whatever but

um I bet there's people listening to this who  have a partner that's constantly watching it

and they know they watch it potentially maybe  they've caught them a few times and they really

want them to stop they think it's maybe killing  the desire in a relationship it's a difficult

conversation too oh good you know yeah it's  really tough and like I said when I was

you know I I think it'd be interesting to  look at this and I would be fascinated to see

whether the people that are watching porn and and  I need to talk to more people than I have about it

the people that I know that watch porn and that's  why I'm only speaking from my experience don't

feel good about it they they internally deeply  at the root when we're in a coaching session we

get to the core of it they feel guilty they feel  shameful they feel embarrassed about it it doesn't

make them feel good and they wouldn't openly admit  it in a community of people now I'm speaking about

a very specific group of people that I've that  have come to me for help or support in their

relationships they don't feel good about it  that doesn't mean they don't feel good when

they're watching it I'm saying they don't feel  good afterwards when they think about it when

they reflect on it they're like that's not what  I imagined would be my sex life that's not where

I thought I'd turn to for for satisfaction and  enjoyment so to me that's again comes back to

down the same approach and that's why the approach  is always the same we're always approaching the

problem from or The Challenge from empathy and  compassion we're not approaching it from judgment

and accusation of like oh you're such a waste  you're such a late you know like that mindset

doesn't ever make someone want to open up like  if you run up to your partner and said God you

just watch porn all the time that you you know  you're one of the worst guys like haven't seen

all my mates they're doing this and they get  this from their partners and what are you doing

that person's never gonna tell you when they  watch porn or what they're challenged with it

is or how embarrassed they feel or whatever it  may be was if you went up to them and said hey

you know I know I know that you watch porn and I  wanted to know when it started like when did you

get into it like what like allow yourself to be  an interviewer about it not an interrogator and

I feel like one of the biggest mistakes we make in  our relationships is we interrogate our partners

not interview them let's be curious let's let's  actually try and understand it let's look at it

because it's human it's natural like like we said  like 99 of people are doing it anyway so why are

we pretending like it's only in our relationship  why are we pretending that oh no one else does

this but only my partner does this that's not  true so if it's that widespread and it's that

common and there's this huge industry that's  been built off of it why are we judging our

partner and why are we making them feel less than  do you watch porn I don't I I've I mean when you

you know I mean three years of being a celibate  monk with no access to the internet or phone gives

you some good training uh I yeah I feel like so  I grew up and I'll explain why too I feel like I

started having sex early and so early in the sense  for me for me so I felt that when were the years

where most of my friends were watching porn I was  having sex and so I didn't get into it as a habit

early on in life which is where I found it Formed  for most of my friends and then by the time they

would get having real sex I became a monk and  so it was it was a really weird order of stuff

does that make sense yes for me it was that idea  of like yeah it was just I think I had I had the

real thing when my friends were watching porn  and then by the time they were having the real

thing I was on such a different path three years  of celibacy three years of celibacy would do it

to you it was one of the hardest no thanks it was  one of the hardest and best things though because

one of the things we don't realize and  I want to address this and celibacy is

really interesting thing to address I would  love to see more people and this may be

not a popular concept and I'm good with that  I would love to see more people date people

without having sex for a committed number of  months so committing with the new person that

you're dating to not make sex a connection point  so one of my good friends did this recently as

well and he found that it gave him the ability to  make better decisions as to whether there was real

intimacy whether there was real connection  and whether there was something real here

that could be built upon with sex as opposed to  God I'm just so attracted to her and she's so

attracted to me and we just have the best sex ever  or we don't and then that's what it's all hanging

on and so I actually would go down that route and  say that celibacy doesn't have to be practiced how

I practice there's three years as a monk celibacy  can be practiced in small doses not because you're

trying to be celibate and you're trying to repress  yourself that's that's not what I'm encouraging

what I'm encouraging is why not use it as a way of  making healthier decisions because studies show we

make don't make good decisions after we have sex  and studies show that we don't make good decisions

when we've had sex with someone for a long time  because that's completely rewiring how we feel

about them so that's one way of looking at it and  the other way I'd say even going even more extreme

is being celibate as a monk allowed me to  redirect all that energy and the word for

monk in the tradition I stayed in is brahmacharya  or brahmacari and what that means technically is

proper use of that energy so celibacy is not  a repression or a suppression or a closing off

it's re-utilizing that vital energy in a different  direction if you think about how much money time

and energy you've spent chasing someone that you  liked the amount of time in your head the amount

of time on your phone text messages uh dating  apps the amount of money you spent I I would

have been so rich if I never took anyone out on  a date before 21 like think about all the money

I wasted on showing off to women before I was 21.  yeah exactly take all of that energy think about

what you could achieve creatively if you used all  that energy used to pursue another person if you

use that energy to create because it's Creative  Energy so to me celibacy was far more about I got

to use three years of Creative Energy in doing a  lot of self work that I otherwise could have taken

years to do because of so many distractions and  Pursuits that kind of spread that energy across

we have a closing tradition on this podcast I know  I like it I like it it's interesting I've never

done this before I don't usually tell people who  the person's been left the question's been left by

but I know you're a Manchester United fan huge  that's all I'm gonna say huge get a question

left for you yeah is is there a time in your  childhood when you could look back and think

this is the reason why I'm sitting here today

plus why it's beautiful

I'd have to say it's um

I'd have to say it's getting to me the  monks because when I was 18 when I first

met a monk which I talk about in things like  a month and um I just don't think I've ever

visibly experienced or emotionally experienced  humility and compassion like I say these words

and we use them as a society but  I think there's very few people in

the world that you could actually say display  boundless compassion and extreme humility and

sincere empathy and I'm really lucky because  I saw that all in real life like I've seen

it why does that make you emotional I can  see it in your face because it's I I feel

I feel that that's the biggest lack in  the world today that the reason why we

struggle with living these ideas is because we  don't have enough role models that live these

we don't have people that we could point to in our  immediate accessible life that we would say are

boundlessly compassionate or that we as we would  say are extremely empathetic or that we would say

are genuinely humble to the core like that's so  rare and I think if I hadn't experienced it I

wouldn't believe it was possible to achieve it and  to access it and for us to see the benefits of it

but because I got to do that at 18 and and  continue to do so now when I spend time with those

individuals I really believe in the greatness and  the genuineness of humanity like I believe it's

there like I believe that that spark exists within  each and every single person who's listening and

I believe that it fully is who we truly are  deepest in our spirit that's who we are and

I just want to be able to help people uncover that  part of themselves and I'm here because I've seen

it and I'm here because I've experienced  it I'm here because I've lived with it

and so even if I don't have it to that capacity  I know it exists and I would like other people

to have access to it and so that's why I'm here  today that's a brilliant question well done Ria

or whoever it is all Cristiano Ronaldo if you  did that one that I would I would flip out

former Manchester United yeah  yeah Christian was dead to me yeah

Jay thank you thank you once again every time  we spend time together it's such an honor and

a privilege um this time it's funny because I  never think we can it's always there's always

a risk that we might not be able to top it per  se do you want to have that but it's not really

about that is it it's about like it's exactly what  this is which is the variety it's the depth it's

the honesty it's the openness which I feel like I  can only do with someone like you who is willing

to reciprocate but also has done a lot of work to  kind of find those answers so yeah thank you for

always for doing this thank you for breaking your  your little month-long um sort of time out your

holiday to come and do this as well means a lot  to me um thank you for writing a great Book on a

topic your book is so good that I've decided not  to write one on this topic I think we talked about

this in La when we went for lunch like it's such  a great book and it's so hard to write interesting

unique things on a topic like love which has  been written a lot about um but you've managed

to do that with this book I read things in this  book that I've never heard before that allowed

me to understand something that I'm that I'd been  struggling with or struggled to articulate from a

Brand New Perspective and also I have to say I'm  exceptionally excited to come and see your world

tour which is on sale now I'm gonna come me and my  partner are going to come and watch it in London

yeah um extremely excited I I'm just generally  more more excited to see what you do live

um because I think there's huge huge potential in  your message delivered in that Medium on stage I

know you've done lots of live things before but  I'm particularly excited by this and I implore

everybody to come and join me on the tour because  it's um I know if you do it then it's going to

be it's going to be significant important and  valuable so I'm super excited to come watch you

on the tour um everyone can go buy tickets now and  the book is necessary so if anyone's looking if

anyone's had any struggles with some of the topics  you've discussed today all of them are explained

in more detail in this wonderful book which  really is another pioneering book of our time and

say that on the back of it I'm actually so  happy I'm on the back of it that's amazing

um so everybody go check out the book Jay thank  you Stephen thank you so much man and I do want

to say this and I do mean it and I message  you I can't remember maybe it was a week ago

or whatever and I said to you like look we let's  just have the conversation that we can have like

I don't need you to you know I don't want to have  a conversation that ever with you or with anyone

but especially with someone that I know and I  feel comfortable with and I had no idea where

today was going to go and I honestly like these  are probably things we would have talked about

if there weren't microphones and so I think  that and and I do feel I definitely feel like

I was because of our relationship and as and  as our relation is weird too but you know in

the sense of how open I do feel with you  sometimes but I would say that in my eyes

I feel we did something different to last  time in an evolved version where there was

even more vulnerability from me because of our  relationship yeah and and I think that that's

you know I hope I hope everyone who's listening  like receives that in that I I was that open

because I was with you and that was someone that I  feel trusted by it's also for someone that I feel

uh understands me even though we haven't spent the  time together understands me in a different way

and sees me and hears me differently and so I can  allow myself to be that vulnerable huge compliment

thank you thank you appreciate you bro thank you  so much see you again soon absolutely man [Music]

thank you