learn from your swipes on Instagram.

Your brain does what you tell it to do.

You're the boss. Tell it. AI is going to

be a billion times smarter than humans.

I would take data points and

measurements and on topics like

happiness. Gratitude is the ultimate

solution to the happiness equation. Mo

Gawdat. He is an expert on the topic of

happiness. If everyone in the world

listened to this podcast episode, the

world would be a drastically better

place.

I was chief business officer of Google

X. Through that network, I've connected

with the wisest people on the planet. We

have an app coming out in Christmas that

is aiming to get to the point where we

know exactly why you're unhappy.

Literally the simplest surgical

operation not known to humankind, but

five mistakes happened and 4 hours later

Ali was gone.

There's nothing I can do to bring him

back, but I can make his essence alive.

My intention shifted from spending the

rest of my life in grief to actually

writing what he taught me so that I can

share it with the world.

Mo Gawdat.

You know, I've done this podcast for the

last 12 months every week.

And there's one name which my guests,

the people that sit in front of me, the

successful athletes, entrepreneurs,

business people from all walks of life,

and just generally ambitious successful

people kept saying, and it was Mo's

name. You know, I hype up these episodes

a lot, but I've never said this.

This was my favorite podcast of all

time because of the lasting value that I

know it will have on my life. I think I

cried twice in this podcast episode.

Who is Mo? He's a genius business

person. So smart, in fact, that Google

made him the head of Google X, which was

their special projects division where

they do the most crazy, insane things

from flying cars to machine learning,

anything a genius would be capable of

doing. He's also a remarkable

entrepreneur.

But the thing that will bring the most

value to you in this episode if you

listen to it, will be what he says about

happiness. And some of the things he

says today have just created these like

personal revelations in my head where I

genuinely feel that I have to go go and

sit down in a room alone and think about

them for the next couple of weeks.

Genuinely life-changing. And you've

never heard me this enthusiastic on the

podcast. So, if you're ever going to

trust me with an episode, trust me on

this one.

Are you ready?

I hope you are.

Without further ado, I'm Steven

Bartlett.

And this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope

nobody's listening. But if you are,

then please keep this to yourself.

No.

I guess my first question for you is,

um, because you know, when I look at the

the things that you write about, the

topics, um, you speak about so often,

the businesses you've built, the areas

of interest you have, and I see that

they're so diverse. And also, they're

very smart, shall I say?

Oh, thank you. My my question is, what

what were those, um, early personal, but

also early professional experiences that

have shaped the way you see and analyze

the world? Mhm. What is that context

that we need to know about you?

Uh

As I I I think the thing that's maybe

shapes me most is that I was born in the

East, raised in the East with the

culture of the East, and educated in the

West, and worked in the West with the

culture of the West.

And, um, in a very unusual way, I didn't

judge either. I think there is so much,

uh, value to learn in each of them. But

they're almost exact opposites. And and

to be able to embrace both of them maybe

has allowed me to translate concepts

that are normally spoken about on one

more than the other uh to the other. So,

so most of my work really is uh uh

highly dependent on my early uh math,

you know, love of mathematics, love of

physics. I'm I'm a very serious geek. I

don't say that in public because it

affects my uh

I just said it. It affects my CEO job,

but I'm really geeky like to to the

point that I was writing codes until a

few years ago. But, I take all of that

language of very being very organized,

very systemic, almost, you know,

engineered and everything. And I try to

explain concepts like spirituality, like

love, like humanity, humanity's position

in the modern age, and so on and so

forth. And I and I explain them in

slightly unusual ways, you know, I use,

for example, quantum physics and theory

of relativity to try and explain death.

Um I use mathematics and theory of

probability to to to discuss the

question of the presence of a a divine

being, and so on and so forth. And I

think the thing is I have a brain defect

somewhere that basically does not stop

me from addressing

crazy ideas. So, I I I normally I'm

writing six books at the same time. And

and and I love it. I love it. I don't

write for for you, uh sadly. I I I I

hate to say this. I write for me. So, I

get inspired by a topic, and then I

build a structure literally like we

write subroutines in software. I write

the entire, you know, um um flowchart,

if you want, of the book, and then leave

it on my desktop, and then start to work

on it sometimes for a year, sometimes

for 2 years. And and eventually

something comes out that informs me and

enriches me. And at the same time, it

you know, interests people.

You write for you. Oh, absolutely. So,

why did you write a book about

happiness? That's the most selfish thing

I've ever done in my life. I mean, if

you if you know

uh my story was

So I I I was very successful at a very

young age. So

unusual. I mean, I'm born and raised in

Egypt, educated in public school, public

university in Egypt. So, my biggest

dream was I was going to become sales

manager in IBM Egypt. That was my

biggest dream.

And look at what happened. I mean, I I

went through

beyond my wildest expectations. Chief

Business Officer of Google X is

literally the second best job on the

planet. Okay? And and and you know, I I

I had all of this, you know, that people

dream of at a very young age. At 29, I

had you know, the big villa with the

swimming pool,

with you know, all of the money, all of

the suits, all of the luxury cars

from 25 when I had nothing to 29 when I

had everything. Had the most wonderful

woman in my life. Beautiful, wise,

sensitive, loving who gave me two

wonderful kids. And I was clinically

depressed.

And and and it's not an unusual story

where where we keep chasing all of those

things. I mean, my my luck was that I

hit my middle-age crisis at 29 when I

achieved everything they told me I was

supposed to achieve and couldn't find

happiness. And so, I ended up in a place

where I started to research the topic

just like I would anything else. And I

couldn't get a word. I I just couldn't

get it. You know, they told me to

meditate. My engineering mind was like,

"Tell me why. Explain something to me.

Tell me why it works, right?" You know,

if you If they told me to say "Om", I

would get really angry. I still don't

say "Om", right? But But the idea is is

my brain wouldn't get it. And instead of

me

rejecting that, I started to look at

those topics as an engineer. So, I would

start to do literally, you know, like

the scientific method. I would I would

take data points and and measurements

and try to do fitting lines and curves

and charts on topics like happiness.

And

you know, it started to work for me. So,

4 years in I started to really become a

little better. And I would go back to my

wonderful son Ali, uh who was born a

tiny little Zen monk. He he knew those

things instinctively. And even as a

young child, you know, age eight I think

was when I started to discuss those

things with him. He would listen there

and ask me a couple of questions,

clearly to entertain me, and then

basically say, "Well done, Papa. This is

amazing. You could have just asked me."

Okay? And then he would literally

explain it to me from the heart. So, how

the heart feels it. I I would get how

the left brain sees it and he would get

how the heart feels it. Your son at at

eight? He was so wise, Steven. He was so

wise. Ali, when he was 16,

uh I promise you my friends will tell

you I would actually I I publicly

announced when I grow older I want to be

like Ali. He was a very unusual being.

And and he

uh he he spoke very little. Very very

very little. He was either laughing all

the time and being silly and goofy, or

when you asked him a a serious question,

he would stay silent and then speak

eight words. Okay? And those eight words

would literally reshape your world.

Okay? And I noticed that at a very young

age for him. And so, I started to

consult with him on a lot of topics uh

on a lot of topics. And on happiness

specifically, together we ended up with

a model that worked. Uh you know, we had

the happiness equation, we had the

happiness model.

And it worked and it worked so well that

when we lost him, sadly,

uh when he was 21, my intention shifted

from spending the rest of my life in

grief to actually writing what he taught

me so that I can share it with the

world. And that basically determined the

next life for me after the life of the

executive and the chief business officer

and the you know stock options and the

luxury and the cars. That second life

really was the result of his departure.

And during during that period the the

inspiration that inspired you to write

the book at the very beginning and go on

that journey to really find the answer

to happiness. You said you were

clinically depressed. Yes. Now for

people that don't know what that means

practically,

can you give a description? Nothing

would make me happy. And you can you can

literally

you know as so I I interviewed Ruby Wax

on my on my podcast on Slow Mo and Ruby

was known for her sometimes you know

depression and sometimes teaching. And

she would describe it as they cut your

head off and fill you with concrete when

you're depressed. You're unable to do

anything. You're unable to enjoy

anything. You're unable to engage,

right? And it comes in in different

layers. But but for me the the challenge

was I was so successful. I was so

successful. I literally could print

money on demand. I mean there were times

when my my my wife would say, "Can we

change the car?" and I would say, "So

what would you like?" and she would say,

"This." and I would say, "Okay, wait

until Wednesday." And I would be on the

stock market, you know, trading for a

few days and making money, right? It was

it was so crazy because of my math

skills before the age of machine trading

was really as as entrenched that it as

it is today, I could make money on

demand. And yet I poured that money on

my life and I couldn't find happiness.

Okay? I you know and that really shakes

you because now you can get the

vacations they're talking about, you can

wear what they

they told you was going to make you

happy, you can buy the things that they

told you are going to is going to make

you happy, but nothing's making you

happy. And then it started to reflect on

my family. And I remember vividly the

turning point was a Saturday morning

when you know, my my daughter Ali my son

was that little Zen monk. My daughter is

life life itself. She truly is pure joy,

okay? And she was you know, it was a

Saturday morning. She's jumping up and

down in joy saying how mommy said we're

going to go there. Can we stop and get

you know, ice cream on the way? Can we

do that? She's so happy. And I was doing

whatever busy people do reading an email

or whatever crap. And and basically I

looked at her slowly raising my head in

grumpiness and said, "Can we please be

serious for a minute?" Okay? What

serious? She was five.

And I could see with my own eyes as my

daughter's beautiful daughter's heart

broke.

Okay? And I think to me that was

basically the moment where I said I

can't live with this person anymore. I

can't live with me.

And when when you see that you make that

choice. And sadly most people who are

successful like your audiences

actually wait until that moment happens.

When when they're old, when they've gone

to the point where

the good days have passed. The days

where you could have actually built that

connection with your family or or with

you know, enjoyed your life a little

more are behind you and then they wake

up. I was so lucky that I woke up when I

was 29.

And so you have this idea as you say

that to to write this book and you to

answer this question that has become so

relevant and important to answer in your

life. And as you're on that journey and

and consulting with with Ali Ali passes.

Yes.

No, so Ali Ali left after he trained me

well enough. So uh

uh it's really interesting. I mean, he

he um so I I I started my research maybe

when he was six or yeah, he was six

seven

uh and finished when he was 18 19 and I

you couldn't dent my happiness then. I

was I was the example of happiness. I

mean, I'm a Middle Eastern and at the

time I used to work at Microsoft. At

least through that journey I used to

work at Microsoft and Microsoft's office

was in Seattle. So, I would fly every

month for a week to Seattle

from Dubai to JFK and then from JFK to

to Washington. And every time I landed

in JFK, I got that random security check

where they give me a red envelope and

take me to Homeland Security. It's

really not the kindest of treatment if

you want.

With a stupid smile on my face. Like I

flew 12 hours, then I

stood in line for an hour and a bit. And

then they gave me that envelope and

there is a guard walking next to me now

assuming I'm a criminal until proven

otherwise. And they sit me in that room

and I have that stupid smile on my face.

Nothing could dent my happiness. Okay? I

have beautiful thoughts inside me. I

have compassion for every one of those

officers, you know, that they're just

doing their job and of course they're

worried about their country. It's really

weird and to the point that I did this

37 times in a row, okay? And to the

point that I would walk into the

Homeland Security office and the

officers behind the counter would go

like, "Mr. Gates is back." Okay? They

know I'm the guy from Microsoft. I've

been there last month. I would walk to

the counter and they say, "Answer the

same 10 questions you we asked you last

time."

So, I would say, "This is my name. This

is my mother's name. This is my right?"

And go through them one by one without a

dent in my happiness.

But then life tests you.

So, so and and by the way, I mean,

we can talk about this, but of course I

you can feel unhappy, but I found a way

to always come back to happiness if you

want.

Um

and then life tests you and I think life

nudges you. It it it seems that Solve

for Happy needed to be written, okay?

And I had the notes for it in 2011, but

hey, Chief Business Officer of Google X,

busy busy busy busy. And I kept delaying

it and delaying it and delaying it until

Ali basically came to visit us in in

Dubai

2014 and he was

diagnosed with a very simple

appendix inflammation.

And yeah, you know, it's literally the

simplest surgical operation not known to

humankind. It's literally a 4-5 minute

thing.

But five mistakes happened. Five in a

row. Everyone is prevent Everyone of

them are most preventable. All of them

were most fixable. But five in a row

fixed wrong and 4 hours later Ali was

gone.

Yeah, I mean it's

it's easy to understand how it feels

even today 7 years later. Losing a child

is

is just the hardest thing ever.

At least for me it's the hardest thing

ever. If life had taken all my money and

all what I've achieved and you know,

made me homeless, it would have probably

felt less painful than losing him.

But but but my our reaction was very

very unusual. Instead of trying to you

know

fight with life

I simply said, "Okay, you know, he's

gone.

There's nothing I can do to bring him

back. But I can make his essence alive.

I can keep his essence in this world."

And his essence to me was what he taught

me. He saved my life with what he taught

me about happiness.

And so I sat down to write first time

that I really write in English as

English is not my first language.

I wrote for 4 and 1/2 months straight.

And you know, if if you've read The

Alchemist by Paulo Coelho, you know,

when you when you know your life's

purpose the universe conspires to make

it happen.

I just can't tell you what happened

since then. I mean, every part of the

universe is just pushing for this

mission to to work. You know, from

finding my agent at a time where he was

actually not feeling great about his

life. So he kept saying, "Can you send

me another chapter? Can you send me

another chapter?" Until I sent the whole

book saying, "What's he going to do with

this?" And then literally we meet and he

basically says, "Can I please represent

you?" We go out, meet 17 publishers

within a week in the in in New York in

the in the capital of publishing. And

then things roll and roll and roll to

the point that I came here in the UK

after literally a week after the the

publication of Soul for Happy and I had

that interview very famous with Channel

4 news. Which within 3 days was the

highest watched news clip on the history

of channel channel 4. To the point that

the CEO is starting to wonder like,

"I've been bought broadcasting violence

and war for the you know last I don't

know how many years and my highest

watched clip at the time it was 37

million views is about happiness." Okay?

Which obviously is understandable. It's

is the pandemic of our time. Within 3

days after that we were watched 87

million times. Okay? More than double

the highest

and and the the movement was starting.

The 1 Billion Happy movement was

starting. Basically, I think it was a

very strong uh

confirmation to the world that this is

something the world needs.

And you can actually feel today that

there is a shift not because of me only

but because there are so many people

coming into this. Uh there is a big

shift now between employee satisfaction

and employee happiness. Between, you

know, let's just work on mental health

and actually let's work on happiness and

so on and so forth. There seem It seems

that the world is getting it. That that,

you know, we're not supposed to be

grinding ourself uh and giving away our

lives

uh for things that we think are going to

make us happy. We might as well be happy

and get everything as a result because

we can then be successful. We can be

engaged. We can be lovable. We can be,

you know, supported and so on and so

forth.

It's just remarkable in my mind that

you can lose the most important thing to

you as you've described it in your life,

your son,

to human error

and still not fall into

resentment or bitterness or What would

it do? regret

What would it do? I mean, of course. I

mean I mean I took steps to make sure

that things are corrected so that no one

else gets hurt, right?

Uh but what would it do? I mean, I was

very prominent at the time when Ali

died.

Uh I was Chief Business Officer of

Google X, but I was still between Dubai

and California. So, I spent half of my

time in Dubai. And I it was after 7

years of being Vice President of

Emerging Markets for Google. So, I had

opened half of Google's offices

globally. I was very, you know, well

connected to the business leaders and

government leaders in Dubai. And so,

when Ali died, uh we got a call from the

top of the Ministry of Health saying,

"We heard what happened. I'm so sorry,

Mo. Uh would you mind if we perform an

autopsy on Ali's body to get to the to

the bottom of this?"

So, I looked at his mother sitting next

to me, most wonderful woman on the

planet with her eyes teary, and I said,

"Nibal, would you mind if they do that?"

And she raised his head and said, "Would

it bring Ali back?"

And that one sentence anchored us in the

truth, okay? You see, the problem with

grief is that the cycle of grief takes

you five steps, huh? And the the very

last step is acceptance.

Okay? And that step of acceptance could

take you

70 years sometimes.

For us,

the truth was glaringly obvious 4 hours

later. There's nothing you can do to

bring him back. This is it. And and the

finality of death is so corrective of

all of our human illusions, huh? This is

it. He's not coming back. So, what can

you do now? And my brain started to

attack me. My brain started to say, "You

should have you know, that one thought

for the first few days was you should

have driven him to another hospital. You

should have driven him until I said to

my to my to my brain like, okay, I wish

I could go back and drive him to another

hospital. I can't. So, can you please

bring me a thought I can act upon?

Okay? And so, I had couple of days of

silence and then

then my wonderful daughter comes to me.

They were very very close. And she said,

"Papa, Ali

uh

had a dream a couple of weeks ago and he

called and told me about it.

Uh and I think it's very relevant you

need to know. Okay? And I said, "What,

baby?" And he said and she said, "He

dreamt he was everywhere and part of

everyone."

And that he it felt so amazing that he

didn't want to be back in his body.

And when she told me I still tear up

thinking about it today. When she told

me this, my blurry brain

could only listen to this is my master.

They're giving me my target. It's the

only thing I heard. It's like, make me

everywhere and part of everyone. That's

what I heard.

And at the time I was head of Google. I

I understood billions. I knew how to get

a message to billions of people. So,

what did I do? I literally said out

loud, "Consider it done."

It's done. Okay? And I told you when I

wrote Soul for Happy, it was the most

selfish thing you can ever do. I wanted

the essence of my son to to to live on.

And so, I basically wrote it with the

intention of, "Okay, I'm going to make

him everywhere and part of everyone. I'm

just going to spread this beautiful

essence to 10 million people

and then

I don't know, 70 years later through 6°

of separation, a tiny bit of him will be

everywhere and part of everyone." That

was my blurry brain. But, maybe it was

also life's way of saying, "Share

something. Do something useful enough.

Enough building phones and building, you

know, faster engines and, you know,

maybe the world needs something

different. Maybe maybe share something

that actually is needed by humanity.

Is that where that 10 billion million

number came from? 10 billion was the

original target, yeah. 10 million happy

was and at the time it felt crazy that

we were shooting for 10 million, but

again with things like channel 4 alone,

I think by week 8 we had reached 137

million. Crazy. Okay? But we don't

measure those, by the way. We don't

measure just the views. We we measure

how many people

took action

uh in terms of

of receiving the message. So it's it's

basically 1 billion happy today is three

steps. Step one is we're going to give

you send you a message that wakes you

up, that tells you happiness is your

birthright and it's highly attainable.

It follows like an equation. Okay? So

you can actually

do certain things and you will be

happier, right? The second once you you

get that message, that's not enough.

We we count you as one of billion happy

if you take one of two actions

afterwards. Either you invest in your

own happy happiness, right? So you

invest in your own happiness by going to

another piece of content, shifting to,

you know, read a book or watch another

video or we can see that you're

investing in your happiness, asking me a

question, getting in touch, whatever

that is. Or you share happiness forward.

Okay? And the entire Ponzi scheme, if

you want, of 1 billion happy is built on

the idea of we hope that as a small team

within hopefully the next 10 12 years,

we will have

you know, cultivated a million champions

that will make a billion people happy as

their own mission and then we will get

completely forgotten. Okay? Because it's

the only way for it to succeed is that

it's not counting on, you know, one

person or one face or one team because

the team will get dismantled and I'm,

you know, going to disappear and it has

to be a movement, right? And so, the

whole movement is on that pillar number

three. Pillar number three is you got a

message of happiness, you you know, it

might have touched you. Can you share it

to two people and ask them to share it

to two people and ask them to share it

to two people. Simple exponential curve,

simple Ponzi scheme, really, a positive

Ponzi scheme, okay? And it's been

working. We we think we're at 51

million, which is not the biggest

number, but you know, you understand the

the the law of accelerating returns,

right? So, if it's now, you know, if we

can do this again in 4 years and then

that becomes 100 million and then the

100 becomes 200 and so on. You know, who

knows? Who knows? We may get there.

And the And the mission is, I guess, the

banner of the mission is self-happy,

right? Is that something

no, no, no. So, no, actually not at all.

So, but books don't go to millions.

That's the truth of books, okay? The

books allow me the opportunity to sit

with you and and spread this to your

audience, okay? Uh but but the mission

is much bigger now. So, the pillars of

the mission are there is a tremendous

amount of content uh that I put out

there. I mean, if you search for my name

on Google, you'll have

hundreds of hours of videos. I'm

tireless. I did, yeah. I watched it

several hours. Yeah, and and and some of

them are, you know, Stanford University

classrooms and some some of them are

short conversations with, you know,

insightful people like yourself, and

it's it's, you know, it's there is

hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of

content of hours of content, but that's

one side. The other side, of course, is

uh

through that network, I've of course

connected with the most with the wisest

people on the planet. Uh so, you know,

when I was chief business officer of

Google, I would be connected to prime

ministers and business owner or owners.

Now, I'm connected to His Holiness the

Dalai Lama, the top monks in the world,

the top teachers in the world. And so, I

brought all of them together on my on my

podcast on slow mo. And slow mo is a

very unusual because it comes from a

chief business officer, right?

Basically a simple message to say take a

little bit of time to slow down and

reflect, okay? And it's not me talking,

it's the wisest people on the planet.

Like I get blown away every time. Okay?

And and so that's that's another

element. The other element of course is

training material, so we're working on

that. We have an app coming out in

Christmas that is actually really

promising. So we're we're building an

artificial intelligence based happiness

assistant, which covers a very

interesting gap that we're all unhappy,

but we're not all unhappy for the same

reasons. And so if I

dispatch content at you that is

irrelevant, okay? I'm probably going to

piss you off rather than make you happy.

So the app in version one it's not

perfect yet, but in version two we're

aiming to to get to the point where we

know exactly why you're unhappy.

And so we're able to actually show you

the enough learning and enough practice

that can allow you to find a path back

to happiness. So it's more intelligent

if you want, not in in understanding

happiness, but in understanding

unhappiness, if you want. So it turns

out with happiness you have to

understand the cause of it. Yes. And you

write about that extensively in solve

for happy. So what is the cause of

unhappiness as you say, especially if

you're building sort of machine learning

applications that are going to

you know,

solve, you know, make people arrive at

contentment or happiness in a

personalized way. We must be able to

know what's causing this lack of Allow

me a bit of time to explain it because

it it's simple when we get it, but it's

not simple to get to it. So So happiness

is very predictable. Okay? If you look

back at any point in your life where you

ever felt happy, there is one

commonality across all of those moments

that can actually be be documented in a

mathematical equation, okay?

You've never felt happy because of a

specific event in your life. Okay?

Take for example rain.

Rain doesn't make you happy or unhappy.

There is no inherent value of happiness

in rain. Okay?

Rain makes you happy when you want to

water your plants and it makes you

unhappy when you want to sunbathe,

right? And so it's not just the event,

rain, it's the comparison between the

event and an expectation in your mind of

how life should be. Okay? If you're

worried about your plants, then life

should be generous to me and get me rain

so I can water the plants. And if life

does that, then life meets your

expectations and you're happy. Okay? And

so happiness in that sense becomes equal

to or greater than, so it's really

mathematics, that your perception of the

events of your life minus your

expectations of how life should be.

Okay? And apply that to anything. Apply

that to anything. So, you know, my

favorite example is nature.

We're all happy in nature. Why are we

all happy in nature? I mean, you go out

there and there are uh ants and there

are flies and, you know, trees are

crooked and there are, you know, shrubs

everywhere and bushes and it's just

really not that hedged and organized.

But that's what we expect. So, you know,

nature's chaos is what we expect nature

to be and so we feel happy. You know,

nobody ever sits in front of the ocean

and says, "I like the view, but please

mute the sound." Okay? You just take it,

you know, it's it's the monotonous sound

and the view and the wind and and the

sun and the whole experience, right? Uh

and because of that, hm, uh happiness

becomes very different than what was

defined to us.

Okay? What was defined to us is that

happiness is found in uh uh

gathering at the pub or a party or a,

you know, an activity or some kind of

pleasure or fun or elation or whatever

that is. That's not at all true. These

are I I call these the state of escape.

Okay? Happiness as per the definition of

the happiness equation is events equal

to or beating expectations, life going

my way. Okay? And so, basically

happiness is that calm and peacefulness

you feel

when you're okay with life as it is.

It doesn't really matter what life is.

Okay? What matters is that you can be

okay with it.

Right? So, so you take, you know, the

any example, huh? If your boss is

annoying and your expectation is, yeah,

bosses are annoying. This is what life

is about. They become bosses because

they're annoying, right? And and so, if

if that's your expectation, you're going

to look at it and go like, yeah, I need

to learn the skill of managing annoying

bosses. Okay? And if that's the case,

then you're not going to be upset about

it. Mhm?

Similarly, anything else, huh? If you

look at it, then it's not just the

event.

It's your perception of the event. So,

you have a

something to influence. It's not just

the event, huh? Your partner might say

something hurtful on Friday at 4:00 p.m.

That's the event. My partner said

something hurtful.

At Sunday morning, you tell yourself he

or she doesn't love me anymore. Okay?

That's your perception of the event.

That's not actually the event. The event

is something hurtful was said. But your

perception of the event is your work.

It's your It's your brain adding color

to it. And then you compare that to your

expectations. Right? You compare my boss

is annoying to my boss shouldn't be

annoying. Where did you get that from?

Right? So, we blur the happiness

equation. We break the happiness

equation because of what I call the six

and seven.

Okay? Six grand illusions and seven

blind spots.

Mhm? Which are The six grand illusions

are basically

uh

call them pathways

uh that the modern world teaches us to

navigate the modern world that are

illusions, are not true. Okay? Uh take

for example control.

Everyone knows that to succeed in the

modern world, you have to learn to

control certain events, right? So, you

start to believe that the way to succeed

in life is to control everything. But

the truth is, even if you go down to the

basics of physics, that we never are in

control. That the the absolute design of

nature itself, of the universe itself,

is entropy and chaos. Right? That's the

actual design. And so, if you try to

control it, you're bound to be

disappointed. A lot of events are going

to miss your expectations. Okay? And

yes, I'm not saying don't control

anything at all, but start to understand

that you're you're going to be selective

because you have a finite amount of

effort. And by the way, even if you're

selective and you you try to control

everything, sometimes things will fall

out of control. Okay? And that should be

your expectation. Once you get that

right, that was one that was my biggest

illusion. Okay? I'm a mathematician. I'm

a software developer. I am a

physicist. I am an engineer. And I'm a

senior executive. It doesn't get worse

than that. Okay? I'm like the worst,

absolute the worst, huh? I used to give

my wonderful wife, I swear to you,

Stephen,

don't judge me. I used to give her a

spreadsheet that would tell her when to

wash the colors and when to wash the

whites based on our average consumption

and as a family to save the environment.

And poor Nibel would would actually

smile at me and say, "Sure, baby, I will

use this."

Of course, and ignores the hell out of

me because that's how crazy you can be

when it comes to control. Now, these are

the illusions. If you live your life

through the illusion of control, good

luck finding happiness. So, six grand

illusions: the illusion of of thought,

the illusion of the illusion of self,

the illusion of knowledge, the illusion

of time, control, and fear. Okay? Now,

that's one side, and that disrupts your

your entire view of what to expect from

life because you're expecting life to

behave through a lens of a lens of an

illusion. The other side of it is what I

call seven blind spots. Okay? And the

seven blind spots are not really defects

in your brain. As a matter of fact, they

are the very design of your brain. Okay?

Your brain is designed to tell you

what's wrong.

Okay? It's not designed to, you know, if

a tiger shows up right here now, my

brain has no

you know, use whatsoever in telling me,

"Oh my god, look how majestic that

animal is." Right? Yeah, it's a

beautiful animal, but my brain will say,

"You're going to die." Okay? And we're

going to die is the idea that basically

makes our uh uh uh our brain constantly

look for what's wrong, blur the events

of life, huh? You ask a mother, hm? And

and she will say, "Oh, my daughter's

been sick all winter." No, she just had

two episodes of flu, 3 days each. But to

the to the caring heart of a mother,

that needs to be exaggerated to the

exaggeration is one of the blind spots,

hm? Your your brain is trying to get you

to take action, so it pushes you. Hm? It

pushes you by exaggerating the event a

little bit so that you jump in and take

action. And accordingly, the event

you're comparing to you're comparing the

wrong event to the wrong expectation,

and the happiness equation falls apart.

Under all of this, you're inferring

something which I think will annoy a lot

of people. And that is that happiness is

a choice. Oh, totally. And that you you

you can choose to be happy.

Totally. And that if you're unhappy, and

really

for many circumstances in our life

day-to-day, in work, in love, in

relationships,

personal responsibility is the

is the answer. And It's entirely on you.

And a lack thereof is the cause.

Absolutely. You know what you just did?

You've just lost us 80 8% of the

audience. I know. Do you know why I

know? Because I did a tweet one day

about this, and what my tweet was um

there's like a I guess a mental model,

but there's a reframing that can I think

has brought me happiness, which is when

something happens to me, I I used to,

like many people, say, "X thing that

happened has pissed me off." Yeah. And

just by changing that sentence to I've

pissed myself off because of X thing.

Absolutely. And I tweeted that I and I I

was like, "Try it. Just like reframe it

and take personal responsibility for how

you're feeling." And in the comment

section, everyone was like, "Nope."

Yeah. People don't like the idea that

they have control over their emotional

responses.

Absolutely. So when I when I wrote so

when I wrote when I write books in

general, I write them I write them like

software. So I issue a beta version,

okay, and I get 270 people. I don't know

why 270

fascinating. Yeah, I get 270 people to

read it on Google Docs. So I give them

editor privileges, so they I can

actually edit the text, right? And then

something fascinating happens. They they

edit the text, and then others edit what

they edited, okay? And there is a

conversation happening, and basically it

takes the book to its

best possible version, if you want. Uh

in Solve for Happy, I had a sentence on

page 11 that basically said exactly what

you said, "Happiness is a choice." Okay?

And at that page, I lost 8% of the

readers.

Okay? And you know, I looked into the

information that they gave me about

themselves, the early readers, and the

eight most of the 8% that left were

already in depression.

Okay? And to tell someone,

"It's your responsibility to get

yourself out of this horrible place that

you're in,"

is quite disturbing, because we like the

idea of saying, "No, no, hold on. No,

no, it's not me.

Life is treating me really badly. That's

why I'm not happy, okay? I can't do a

anything about it. Life took my son. You

know, I Life took my son. I have the

right to be unhappy." Yes, life took

your son, that's true, and you have the

right to be unhappy, but you're never

going to get out of unhappiness if you

wait for life to bring him back or you

wait for life to correct its action.

Okay? The only way you can come out of

unhappiness is if you choose

and say, "Okay, it's going to be a long

journey. It's going to take a lot of

time, okay? And I'm going to try and try

and try, but I'll get there."

And And neuroplasticity proves that.

Neuroplasticity basically tells you that

if you just run a happiness kind of

activity once a day, every day your

brain will be better at it.

And And I mean, please don't get me

wrong, but what do most of us do every

day? We watch negative news, we swipe on

toxic positivity, and we we're just

drowning ourselves in negativity, and

then what happens? Mhm? What happens is

we become really good at being negative.

We become really good at finding what's

wrong with life. We become very good at,

you know, getting pissed off with the

Prime Minister, right? Because it's an

activity we do on daily basis. So, your

brain goes like, "This must be important

for her or him. Okay, I'm just going to

make sure I have the neurons aligned to

around that." And so, you're basically

We're basically configuring our brains

to be unhappy. I have not watched a

horror movie for 15 years. Really?

Yeah. You know what that means? I have

not had a nightmare for for 15 years.

Not a single one.

Okay? I have not watched a violent movie

unless really badly recommended to me

because it has a a good message in it.

Mhm? And I watch Michael McIntyre every

every night before I sleep.

I love Michael McIntyre. Who's going to

get me to say hi to Michael McIntyre?

Right? The But But it's But But think

about that practice, huh? My brain

before I go to sleep, mhm? It's

laughing.

It's laughing. And that's a choice.

That's a choice.

Mhm? And And that is the kind of

neuroplasticity that we need to shift.

You You know, if you if you go to the

gym

and lift weights every day, you're going

to look like a triangle. If you squat

every day, you're going to look like a

pear.

Okay? The same is happening inside your

brain, you just don't see it. If you're

constantly watching, you know, news

media, right?

You're literally building your muscles

that are concerned and are, you know,

critical and are worried about the

world. When in reality, most of the time

you can't do anything about it.

Like, okay, so I'll give you a very

strange example. When I I was lockdown,

first lockdown I was in London. Second

lockdown I was in Canada. Okay? As the

lockdown was approaching, I I stopped

watching news after April 2020.

Zero news. Okay? And by the time I was

in Montreal, someone texted me and said,

"Hey, by the way, did you know we're

going to code red tomorrow?"

I said, "Yeah, what's code red?" She

said, "All restaurants are closed, you

wear a mask everywhere." I said, "Good."

That's it. That's all the news I needed

to know.

Really, okay? People would go like, "No,

how come? You need to know the numbers

and the statistics and the death rate

and the No, I don't. Okay? Someone else

is doing this. And by the way, if I know

it and I don't like it and I don't

believe in what they're doing, I'm going

to be locked down anyway.

So, can I waste my time or actually

utilize my time in building a podcast

that becomes one of the top half percent

of the all of all podcasts globally?

Isn't that a better use of my life than

just watching the news and you know,

creating that illusion for myself that I

can actually influence anything when in

reality

So, you know, I I normally advise people

and say, "Look, if you've been following

a certain topic for the last 2 months

and have not been able to influence the

decision on that topic for the last 2

months, you're useless. So, stop

watching that topic."

Okay? And start choosing topics that you

can champion.

Okay? One or two because you're human,

you're not, you know, you're not

Superman. Find one or two

real, you know, purposes that you

actually care about and try to learn

enough about them, enough depth about

them to influence them. That's the way

to make the world better. That's the way

to make your life better. And yeah,

climate change is really something very

important, but it's not on my agenda.

I I don't work on climate change. I work

on happiness. That's my part of life.

Okay? Someone else I trust will be

working on climate change, which I

believe is as important if not more

important, but it's not mine. I don't

need to watch everything about it, okay?

And concern myself about it all the

time. I need to be updated. I need to do

my part by by really changing my habits

as a human, but that's it. That's as far

as I go.

There's something in there which is

clearly a theme in, I think, three

topics we've touched on, the passing of

your son, you know, you talked there

about COVID, um and other elements,

which is this theme of like radical

acceptance. Oh, absolutely. Like instant

radical acceptance. Oh, absolutely. I

mean, this is what I call the Jedi

master level of happiness. So, there are

three levels of happiness, right? Uh the

the the, you know, if you um if you

really think about it, uh I call it the

happiness flowchart, hm?

Events are going to piss you off. It's

it's just the truth, hm?

If you can manage to acknowledge your

emotion and say, "Oh my god, I feel I

feel so Am I angry? Is this anger? I

mean, is this Is this what I'm feeling?"

And then and then you take that feeling

and you say to yourself, "Okay,

interesting.

I am angry. I need to do something about

it." I will give you three steps, okay?

The beginner's level is ask yourself if

what you're thinking is true.

Your partner said something hurtful on

Friday. Your thought is he or she

doesn't love me anymore. Okay? Ask

yourself if that thought is true. If it

isn't, drop it. There's no point to be

unhappy. If it is, then let's go to the

black belt level of unhappiness, which

is can I do think something about it?

That's the second question. Is it true

is question one, can I do something

about it is question two. Right? And oh

on honestly by the way, it doesn't take

more than 2 seconds

to feel the emotion, ask yourself is it

true, and then go to say to to to

to can I do something about it. And if

yes, then do it. What are you waiting

for? Text him or text her and say,

"Baby, can we please talk over dinner

what you said on Friday hurt me."

Okay? Instead of just banging your head

against the table hoping that they will

find out and come and say, "Oh, I'm so

sorry." You know, I I had I I was

teaching this story really hurts me.

I I was teaching, you know, when what

before lockdown I I taught a lot of

people in workshops and seminars more

than 20,000 people. One one day one of

them comes to me in the first break and

says, "What are you talking about? What

do you mean happiness is a choice? You

have no idea what happened to me."

Okay? And I said,

"Okay." And she said, "When I was 17."

She was 74 at the time.

Can you believe that? Hm? 57 years of

holding on to one thought hitting her

head against the wall.

Right? And I hugged her.

I hugged her, I cried, and I said, "Did

it work?

Did all of that work?

Or was the better thought, hm? Okay, it

was horrible,

but can I do something about it?

Right? And that's question number two.

That's black belt. Sometimes, however,

there's nothing you can do about it.

Whatever she experienced could be

irreversible. What I have experienced,

the loss of Ali, is irreversible.

There's nothing you can do about it.

Okay? And I'm not asking everyone to get

there quickly, but the Jedi master level

of happiness is to say, "Okay.

It happened, and I have no choice to

change it. There is nothing I can do to

fix it. So, can I accept it,

but not surrender and lie down and, you

know, and and die, accept it and then

start to do something to make my my life

better despite its presence or maybe

because of its presence. Okay? Can I

accept that Ali died

and start to spread his message so that

my life and the life of others become

better. Can I accept that I'm locked

down and start my podcast so that I can

use the time where I'm not traveling.

Can I do that? I call that committed

acceptance. Okay? And it's very simple.

If you commit and accept to if you

accept things you you can't change and

commit to make your life better despite

of or because of their presence,

nothing can beat you.

Nothing can beat you. And yeah, does it

is it horrible that I actually managed

to move on and and, you know, not hit my

head against the wall for 27 years?

Uh does that say I don't love Ali?

What are you talking about? I I adore

Ali. I cry about missing him still

today, right?

It's not that it's there's nothing to

prove in that. Mhm? What what I can

prove is I love him so much that I

actually dedicate my life to spreading

his message. That's so much better than

sitting there and saying, "Ah, life hit

me. I don't like life." Right?

That's a 6-year-old attitude, honestly.

Okay?

Adults will say, "Okay."

And especially business people, I mean,

your audience is, huh?

Uh the market changes all the time. Do

you sit down and go like, "Ah, I lost

another deal." or do you just get up and

say, "Why why did we do lose this deal?

What can we do about it?"

Right? And if if there is something

wrong with the product, can we change

the product?

Right?

What you talk talked there about

business in particular

rings very very true because in business

and you've been, you know, very

successful entrepreneur yourself and

worked with teams, you'll get people who

are high in defaulting to logic in

moments of chaos and also default to

personal responsibility and those that

don't. Yeah. And the outcomes of both

groups are quite predictable.

Very different. And actually this I this

approach of is it true,

uh can I do something about it, can I

accept it, and and and commit.

I learned that in business, okay? So,

I've spent most of my my career I was

managing managers. And what do managers

do? They open your door and they sit

down and complain.

Okay? And after a while it becomes too

much. So, my attitude was very

straightforward. I would give them 10

minutes to vent,

then 10 minutes to ask them is this

true?

Okay? Is there anything you're missing?

Is Is the legal team also nice, not just

making your life miserable, right? Have

they Have you seen evidence that they've

helped you before? So, you know, is it

true? And then I go like, so now, great,

last 10 minutes of the meeting, what are

we going to do about it?

Are we going to be able to to to improve

it, fix it, or are we going to accept it

and do something despite its presence?

And it's a very simple business

approach. Now, most of us do that in

business,

but when it comes to our personal life,

we don't do that.

And interestingly,

most of us by the way who do that in

business are very successful in

business, and most of us who do that in

life are very successful in life.

It's not just happy.

It makes us makes us successful because

it doesn't waste our cycles on things

that are not necessary.

So, if if you can do it at work, do it

at home, do it in your life, do it in

your relationships.

It's really a very straightforward

flowchart.

You talked about when you were talking

about

the the chatter that arrived after Ali's

passing,

and it was telling you maybe you should

have driven him to another hospital,

maybe you should have done this, and you

could have done this differently. That

is, you know, everybody has that that

chatter show up in their minds at

certain points which seems to be, you

know, not necessarily your best friend,

and there's sometimes

suggesting that you should do X, Y, and

Z which would probably be destruct-

destructive. What you said following

that is that

you almost like disassociated from it.

And you And it was it wasn't it wasn't

you. You were You were almost describing

it as if it was someone else in your

head.

Absolutely. I call my brain Becky. Yeah.

You You call your brain Becky? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So talk to me about

what you So So So what is that? Becky is

a third party. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beck-

Becky is not me. Okay.

So So think about it, huh? Doesn't take

a lot of lot logic. I Again, it's one of

the illusions of the modern world. Mhm.

The illusions of the modern world

basically we glorify thinking so much

that we think that the voice inside our

heads telling us what to do is us

telling us what to do.

If it was you telling you what to do,

why would it need to talk?

And And I think really you need to think

about this. And there has been uh

you know, research in this since 1920s.

And Lev Godov-

Godovsky, I think his name is a Russian

Nobel Prize winner in the 1920s,

basically won the the Nobel Prize

because he observed that the voice box

when you're when you have that internal

dialogue in your head is moving ever so

slightly like like it does when you

speak out loud. Okay? And so MIT proved

that actually 2007 there was a

wonderful MRI study where they put

participants in MRI machines, give them

word puzzles, and the participant

problem-solving areas of the brain would

light up for for as long as it takes to

actually solve the problem, and then

that would shut down. So no more no more

problem-solving, but the participant's

still not aware of the of the answer.

And the And the And the speech

association area of the brain would

actually light up for up to 8 seconds.

And then you would know the answer. Then

the participant would know the answer.

Okay? So literally your brain solves the

problem, and they then takes up to 8

seconds to to turn it into words to tell

it to you. Your brain is literally

talking to you. It's not I think,

therefore I am. It's I am, therefore my

brain thinks. Now, the interesting

challenge we have in the modern world is

this.

Nobody wakes up in the morning and tells

them self

I pump blood around my body therefore I

am. Okay? The biological function of

your heart is to pump blood around your

body. Okay? Yet we think I think

therefore I am. I am that voice in my

head. Now,

you know,

simply if you realize that this is just

a biological organ, okay? And the

biological product of your brain is

thoughts. And the And And the currency

of the brain is words because the only

building blocks of knowledge you have

since you started to speak is words.

Okay? And so accordingly what your brain

is doing is it's analyzing it's it's,

you know, it's the world around it and

presenting ideas so that you can choose.

Now if you think that those ideas are

you telling you what to do, then you're

going to obey.

Okay? If it says oh life is miserable,

then it must be true. Life must be

miserable. But that's not the truth at

all. If me and Becky are two different

people, I can debate what Becky Becky's

telling me. I can

refuse to obey what Becky's telling me

to do and I can tell Becky to shut the F

up.

Do you understand that? And I actually

do it very often. I'm like I'm working

on something and Becky comes up with an

idea oh my your daughter doesn't love

you anymore. I'm like, Becky, we're

going to talk about this at 6:00.

It's as simple as that, right? And your

brain does what you tell it to do.

I mean anyone listening to us, if you

tell your brain raise my right hand,

your brain is not going to

raise your left foot. It's just going to

obey. Just tell it. You're the boss.

Okay? So when poisons you with all of

those thoughts, follow the flowchart.

Okay, Becky, vent a little bit, then

tell me is this true? Is there something

I can do about it? Can we accept it and

do something despite its presence?

How difficult is that?

And so most happiness practitioners, I

interviewed my dear dear friend Matthew

Ricard on on Slow Mo. And Matthew Ricard

is known as the world's the world's

happiest man. So 63 hours The

hours of lifetime meditation. Okay? His

brain circuitry is literally different

than ours. Okay? And And I asked him and

I said, Matthew, so do you sometimes get

unhappy?

And he laughed and in his funny French

accent said, what are you talking about?

You know, I'm pissed off all the time.

Okay? And and basically all happiness

experts will tell you unhappiness is a

survival mechanism. It's alerting you.

Your brain is saying, hey, something is

not perfect. Can you please look into

this?

Right? The game is not to avoid that.

That's actually harmful for you. You

want You want to be aware of the things

that might go wrong. Okay? The game is

how quickly do you bounce back to

happiness?

From that moment where your brain says

something is not right, how quickly do I

go back to happiness? And I don't brag

about this, but I say to encourage

people. I'm You know, if I'm allowed to

teach people about happiness, I need to

be the Olympic champion of the sport.

Okay? So, I promise you and I'm not

bragging, on average, it takes me 7

seconds.

From the time my brain suggests that

something deserves my happiness to the

time I either dismiss it because it's

not true or decide what I'm going to do

about it or decide to accept it and

think what else I'm going to do is 7

seconds.

7 seconds. Okay? Yes, sometimes I get

stuck in You know, maybe three, four

times a year, I get stuck in something

that takes me a you know, a day to

overcome. Mhm? But most of the time it's

a very simple flowchart. It's a very

logical process.

And you've had to train yourself to get

to that point. It's It's

neuroplasticity.

It is new Go to the gym.

Okay? Write the flowchart on a piece of

paper and every time your emotion

changes, look at it. Is it true?

Can I do something about it? Can I

accept it and do something despite its

presence? It's really that simple.

And you talk a lot about one of the

illusions you said it there was time.

Oh, I love time. And the And the

importance of um presence. What what

role does does time in being present?

Cuz you also you talked about that the

world's happiest man as you described

him being a great meditator. And I think

from what I understand about meditation,

although I'm not an expert, much of that

is about bringing us to the present

moment. Totally. I mean, there are there

are two sides to time that we need to

understand. One you can one you can

easily understand from

relativity and and Einstein's view of

space-time, anything you know about time

is not real. As a matter of fact, nobody

knows a clue what time is.

Okay? Uh and and we have to accept this

that the illusion of time in the modern

world is because we've managed to uh

uh to to control what we've measured.

Okay? We're we're measuring mechanical

movements that sort of hint to time that

to the passage of time. And we're we now

can show up on time and, you know, have

an interview that we can measure is like

an hour and a bit and so on and so

forth. But time itself, we don't know.

Okay? The the only understanding we have

of time is that we're being propelled

forwards through space-time along the

arrow of time. Okay? And that every time

every slice of space-time we're we're

standing there in that slice

only living here and now. Okay? You've

never ever lived yesterday. Do you

realize that? When you lived yesterday,

it was called today. You're never going

to live tomorrow. When you when you live

tomorrow, it's going to be called today.

Okay? The it's always right here and

right now. And I did a an interesting

analysis in Solve for Happy where I

listed down the majority of human emo-

emotions and plotted them across where

they are anchored in time and across if

they're positive or negative. Okay? So,

you take an emotion like regret. Mhm?

Regret is anchored in the past. It's

about something that happened in the

past and it's negative. You take

something like anxiety. Anxiety is

anchored in the future. It's about

something that might happen in the

future and it's negative. Okay? The

majority of negative emotions are

anchored in the past and the future. The

majority of positive emotions are

anchored in the present moment.

Okay? If you're If you're here and now,

there's absolutely nothing wrong.

I mean, think about it this way. If

you're listening to us talk having this

conversation as a as one of our

listeners, mhm? By definition, there is

no tiger trying to eat you.

You know, the act the reality, mhm?

That, you know, which is really

shocking, huh?

The the the reality that you can feel

unhappy about something in the past and

the future is in itself evidence that

now is okay.

Because if there was a tiger trying to

eat you right now, you wouldn't be

thinking about losing your job in 3

weeks.

Okay? So, the truth is every time remind

yourself that the fact that I'm thinking

about past and future is itself evidence

that now is fine. There is a roof on top

of my head. I'm obviously not starving,

okay? You have an electronic device that

allows you to listen to us, huh? Life is

okay.

That's so crazy. I've never actually

thought about that idea of

practically what you just said then of

that the person listening to this now,

focusing on the sound of my voice, is

not actually unhappy now. Absolutely

not. They're not. When they stop

listening to it, they might their

thoughts might descend into unhappiness,

past, future, regret, whatever. But, as

they're listening to this, they're not

actually in the state of unhappiness.

They have to stop listening and stop

engaging to And think about something

else. Yeah, to create space for that.

Remember Inception? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah. The beginning of Inception, the

question was what is the most

uh deadly parasite or whatever, I don't

remember. And he said it's an idea.

An idea. You have never There is nothing

in your life that has the power to make

you unhappy

until you turn it into a thought,

a negative thought, and turn it into

your head and torture yourself with it.

Simple as that.

Okay? If you're locked down and you're

at home, and you have food, and you have

shelter, and you're not sick sick, and

hopefully none of your family and loved

ones is sick, okay?

The only way you can get yourself to be

unhappy is to say, "I don't like this.

I want life to be different."

Right? And that's not going to change

life, interestingly, that thought.

Right? But it's going to change you and

make you miserable. It's the only way

you can make yourself unhappy.

You just lost another 8% OF OUR

LISTENERS.

YEAH. UM YOU HAVE A

HOPEFULLY WE'LL GAIN 8% more of our

listeners. You have a tattoo on your

back. I don't. How do you

Oh, you don't. Oh, Ali did. Was it Ali

about Oh, yeah, the gravity of the the

battle.

of the battle means

Could you Could you Could you explain

that to me? I found that really amazing.

It's the last thing he told me. Can you

believe that?

So, Ali

um

Ali

uh had a tattoo on his back that read,

"The gravity of the battle means nothing

to those at peace."

Okay? And you would wonder why why?

Because he's he you know he He lived a

life of ease and luxury in general. I

mean, even though he always forced

himself to go to the

I mean, he had those journeys where he

would go and literally uh walk across

the villages of America with no money

just to live the life of the people, the

real people, if you want. He would go to

you know, it was very unusual. Anyway,

uh yeah. His His tattoo said, "The

gravity of the battle means nothing to

those at peace."

And it was the very last thing he told

me because basically he had he was

wearing those scrubs and you know how

the scrubs are open at the back and he

was lying on on the operating table and

then they were fixing something so he he

had to sit up. And I could read the the

the tattoo. It was the very last thing

he told me before he went into the

operating room.

And yeah, it's quite interesting when

you really think about it. Of course,

life is full of battles. Mhm? Life is

not supposed to be easy. Just understand

that, huh? Like think of life as a video

game. If it was easy, it would be boring

like hell and you would learn nothing at

all. Yeah? Life is supposed to have a

few difficulties on the way. But that

But But some battles Mhm? Are Are much

harder for you than they are for me. And

many battles don't even shake those who

are at peace.

Right? And And And the question is how

do you find that peace?

How do you find that feeling of it's

okay, it's just another battle.

It's just You know, I've I've won every

other battle so far and the ones that

I've lost were the best thing that ever

happened to me.

How can you get that straight in your

mind?

Because then suddenly, when the when the

next battle approaches and I promise you

there will be a next battle approaching.

Okay? You take that battle with

complete peacefulness. You basically

treat it as one more

twist on the game controller where you

can actually affect your life and make

it better.

And then wait for the next one. And then

another twist on the game controller and

you can do better.

It's a very stoic approach to life.

But it's so spot-on when you think about

it. I was reading something you said

which really did make me pause for a

second and it said that

you know, correct me where I'm wrong cuz

I don't know if I've mischaracterized

what you said, but you were saying how

basically nobody regrets their battles.

Like basically nobody would reverse

history and undo the hard thing they

went through. And I I sat and reflected

and I thought I thought about all my

guests that come here and sit in that

chair and all the the things they've

told me about. And I thought I think

you're probably right. But point point

one percent. So I I I I ran an

experiment. So

in in the in the chapter about control,

I I wrote something that I called the

eraser test.

The eraser test is a thought experiment.

At Google X, we've developed something

that can pinpoint a memory in your life

and go back to that event and erase that

event from your timeline. Okay? Not the

memory of it, the actual event. It will

erase the whole thing. And I ran that

experiment with maybe 12,000 people uh

where I basically tell them first write

down an event that's traumatic in your

life.

Second, make a choice. Do you want me to

erase it or not? Third, be aware that if

you erase it, you're going to erase

everything that happened as a result.

Every friend that you met as a result,

every learning that you had as a result,

every resilience that you developed as a

result. Would you still erase it?

99.99%

of people said no. I'd keep it.

Okay? And these were very traumatic

events. It's not just some bully at

school, huh? So, you know, I will tell

you openly myself, I I cried on stage in

2019 because someone asked me

and said, "Now that you have the eraser

test, would you erase the death of Ali?"

And I wouldn't.

I wouldn't.

Cuz I will tell you openly, if you know

my son, if I had told Ali before he died

that his death would make 51 million

people happy, he would have said, "Kill

me right now."

And

I don't know. I mean,

is it radical acceptance or am I as my

brain telling me this?

But most of the time, most of the time

the person that you are is the result of

those moments. It's not the result of

the easy parts.

And you would never erase it. 99.99%

of the people would not erase it.

Easier said in hindsight, I guess. Of

course. But then But then But then let's

let's extrapolate. If I would not erase

99.99%

of the harsh events in my past, why am I

thinking that this one is the one that's

going to stick? Mhm.

Think about it.

If all of your past harsh experiences

were painful then, but enormously

important now, then maybe this one, too,

will be enormously important.

Maybe this is the one that's going to

make you who you are.

Reminds me actually of something you

said about death, as well,

because much of the reason, I think,

again, correct me if I'm

mischaracterizing, but um you said that

people fear death because of the

uncertainty it brings, and not knowing

what that you know, the the death or the

you know, that will look and feel like.

And I I I reflect on what we're talking

about with this eraser, and so I think a

lot of the reason why I might not choose

to erase traumatic events in my life or

the worst things that happened to me is

because then I don't know which way that

kind of my life would have gone then,

and it could have gone in a worse

direction. So, in this current moment, I

feel somewhat content. Uh you know, I'm

just I'm being I'm

talking about the potential with those

99% of people that you described, and

there's a chance it could be worse if I

use that eraser. So, I'm not going to

use that eraser because

Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. And and

and most of the time,

yes, when you look back in hindsight,

you start to recognize all of the

benefits that came with the trauma. And

most of the time, interestingly, the way

the physics of life work is that the

benefits outweigh the trauma. Mhm.

Interesting.

Quick one. I talked to you guys about

Huel a lot, so I'm going to do a quick

intermission to tell you about a bit of

a change that's happened in the last 2

months in my life. As you guys know, my

favorite Huel product historically has

been the ready-to-drink, which is these

bottles here. They are nutritionally

complete. However, recently, since Huel

introduced the Huel protein, this now

plays a huge role in my diet. The salted

caramel flavor protein from Huel, which

is only 105 calories and has 26 vitamins

and minerals and 20 g of protein, um

serves two roles in my life now. First

thing I do when I wake up in the morning

is I have a glass, and then at

nighttime, after I've been to the gym,

straight after the gym, I have a glass.

It tastes amazing. If you're going to

try it, follow my instructions here. Get

a couple of cubes of ice, put it in a

blender, put on the salted caramel

protein, and it tastes like a delicious

smoothie. I've already gone through one

tub of this. I'm actually on my second

tub, and I've got two more tubs to go

before I'm going to reorder more. But

genuinely, the salted caramel flavor,

maybe because I have a liking for salted

caramel, for me has been a game-changer.

I wrote a book called Happy Sexy

Millionaire. Nice. Because I It was

because I was I was an 18-year-old kid

that um wrong because of all the

insecurities from my childhood, being

the only black kid in an all-white

school, parents were broke, but everyone

else around me was rich. So it creates

this cauldron of like insecurity, where

you want to be you want to fit in, and

then you it leads you to the the path of

thinking that money and material

possessions will be the thing that makes

me fit in. So I go off on the path of

trying be this happy sexy millionaire.

Of course, 25 years old.

Range Rover Sport sat outside. I'm a

multimillionaire, big successful

business, six-pack, all these things.

The day our company IPOs, it's worth 300

million, and just this total anticlimax,

which almost sent me into like And I'm

like, "Where is the marching band and

the confetti?" Like, "Where is it?" I

18-year-old Steve, you promised me that.

And I And And so now I reflect I look

forward and think, well, I need to be

careful about some of these ambitions I

have because I don't know whether that's

the insecurity defining the path, or if

it's my sort of intrinsic These are

intrinsic things that will make me feel

content. So my question is about how do

I know if my ambitions How do I reframe

them now to make sure that they're

leading me to a happy place or a

fulfilled place, and not just scratching

some unscratchable insecurity?

That's so interesting. Did did did the

did the sexy girlfriend uh make you

happy or make you miserable?

Miserable. There you go. The

The sexy one did make me miserable, but

the the one that wasn't so

wasn't didn't care about being sexy and

cared about other things, you know, had

those good values. Yeah. Made me much

happier.

Did did the Range Rover break down

anytime? And I know it did a lot.

Yeah, a couple of times. It got smashed

up. People broke into it all the time.

There you go. It cost a lot of money. It

was hard to park. So, I I I think we

need to differentiate between two sides.

One One is s- uh ambition, and the other

is expectation. Okay? So, have any

ambition you want.

Any ambition you want. Hopefully, a good

ambition. Be a good a good billionaire.

Okay? So, my my dream is that by the end