Maria Corina Machado, welcome to the

All-In interview and thank you for being

here with me today. And congratulations

on winning the Nobel Peace Prize 2 weeks

ago.

Thank you very much, David. It's my

pleasure. Today, you are in hiding.

In October of 2023, you won the

presidential primary election in

Venezuela. Last March, you were

disqualified from running in the general

election.

You appointed ultimately a surrogate

Edmundo Gonzalez.

After the vote for the general election

for the presidency,

your party presented evidence

that claimed that you had won 69 and

1/2% of the votes, while Maduro, through

the National Electoral Council, declared

that he was the winner with 51% of the

votes.

This is the recap of a very long story

of the Maduro regime and prior to that,

the Chavez regime

and its effect on the people of

Venezuela, which you have tried to bring

to light on the global stage.

I was hoping to frame up the story for

our audience who may not know the

history of Venezuela very well by

talking a little bit about the

background of the country and how

your childhood and your youth brought

you to the stage that you're on today.

And just to provide a little bit of

background and forgive me for my lengthy

introduction, but I think it's important

for folks to understand that the

discovery of oil in Venezuela in 1914

began an economic boom that really

kicked off in 1922. Today, Venezuela has

proven oil reserves of 300 billion

barrels, the number one proven oil

reserve in the world. Saudi Arabia is

number two at 266 billion and the US is

at 48 billion. Over the decades that

followed the discovery of oil in

Venezuela, there was initially an

improvement in the economy through the

investment by the seven sisters, which

are a group of seven oil companies, and

ultimately there was a transition in the

country to nationalize oil production,

and that led to, I think, the story that

brings us here today.

So, Maria Corina, again, thank you for

being here. Maybe you could tell us a

little bit about your youth.

Well, [clears throat] first of all, I

have to thank you because this is a

unique, decisive moment in Venezuela.

We've been under this tyranny that has

turned into a real criminal structure

for 26 years that have turned, you know,

what used to be one of the freest and

richest countries in the Americas into

one of the poorest

and with a third of our population

forced to flee. So, imagine what a

tragedy. It shows that, you know, you

can have huge, unique natural

endowments, but if but that's not

wealth, you need talent, you need

institutions, and you need freedom in

order to turn that in the well-being of

your people.

I I was born in an incredible family. I

I I thank the Lord because we had a huge

family like Latin American family, like

to be, you know, together, hanging

around all the time. My father was an

incredible industrial

entrepreneur.

He He is perhaps the smartest and most

generous and honest individuals I've met

in my life. And and he taught us the

responsibility that comes with with

that, with your family values and the

opportunity life gives you. And that's

why we I only imagine my life in

Venezuela and in freedom. And and and we

grew with that sense of responsibility.

And but to be honest, I'm part of a

generation that, you know,

looked politics with, you know,

rejection or even contempt. I I said I

would do anything in my life but

politics. And

and and and, you know, thought we

thought that we had inherited

democracy forever.

We took it for granted. And when Chavez

arrived, our lives were, you know,

turned over and we realized that we we

need to exercise citizenship if we

wanted to live with freedom. And that's

how it all started. I never thought I

would be sitting in here with you

talking about politics or democracy.

I never thought I would be sitting on a

podcast, but uh

>> [laughter]

>> life takes us down strange paths. What

were the conditions in the country when

Chavez came to power? What sort of life

were you living? What were you seeing in

the country that enabled Chavez to come

to power and what did he promise the

people?

Look, we had a period of of democracy

that that brought Venezuela huge

opportunities, you know, that

widespread education and health.

Unfortunately,

uh we stopped short of

a a real free economy. But

um the state control, not only of

institutions, but as you mentioned, when

the oil companies were, you know, owned,

turned into the government, state-sized,

and and a terrible incentives started

being created and more and more people

felt excluded from that, you know,

wealth that the society Venezuelan

society was getting or country was

getting because it was all in hands of

the state. So, we've never known but the

state control economy. We've never

always known or never seen anything but

that kind of socialist procedures in

place. When Chavez arrived, uh we had

gone through a political, you know,

crisis and and and there were growing

tensions and and, you know, claims of

corruption in the political system, the

party system, and also the price of oil

had, you know, declined. It was around

$8 a barrel. So, he came with a populist

narrative offering, you know, everyone

to be equal and and to revenge against

all those that were guilty of uprooting

the the country. And and, you know, he

aligned with actors such as Fidel Castro

in Cuba and other international

interests to grab, you know, those huge

resources Venezuela has and of course in

a, you know, super strategic geographic

position. So, that's how he got there

and that populist system turned into a

autocratic and then into criminal

structure.

>> And this was 1999 that he came to power?

>> was in 1999.

>> And at the time, I think when he took

office, oil was at around $14 per

barrel. And a few years later, oil

spiked up to $100 a barrel.

>> even less. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's

true. Just to contextualize all of this,

prior to his coming to power, the oil

companies had been nationalized. And so,

to your point, the government was really

the economy. And he promised this sort

of equality and redistribution of value

for all of the people of Venezuela. Is

that what he promised and the economy

was really depressed because of the oil

price being down? Yeah, and that he

would take, you know,

resources from the rich, the companies,

and he would distribute in in in poor

quarters and and in in in in the most

vulnerable

parts of the of the society. And at the

end, we we learned the hard way that

effectively this kind of socialist

approach does get everyone equal in

absolute misery because there's nothing

for free in life. I mean, you you give

away your choices, your decisions, in

supposedly to receive, but actually what

you are you are getting is into a slave

situation in which the state, you know,

decides for you

and and only if you behave accordingly,

you will get what they had offered. So,

that's what we're seeing right now. The

largest oil reserves in the world, I've

been walking around those areas where

that oil is actually beneath the ground

and you see children eating from

garbage.

So,

>> And I think, to your point, and I was

going to bring this up later,

but there's such a powerful lesson to be

learned for the West, for America, for

Europe, socialism is slavery.

And I think the story that you bring to

the world is one of slavery driven by

this kind of socialist tyranny. There is

no socialism without tyranny. But I just

want to walk through that a little bit

because as Chavez came to power,

oil went up to $100 a barrel. Suddenly,

Venezuela's oil reserves made the

country very wealthy,

and he then engaged in a series of what

some people have described to me as

petro diplomacy,

where he gave away 300,000 barrels of

oil per day to the Cubans at a 50% price

discount in order to

make the Cubans a surrogate, in order to

make other

island nations in the Caribbean, in the

African island states, surrogates. And

that's how Venezuela expressed their

political influence around the world was

through the power of

the oil reserves, but in such a way

that it excluded the people from

participation. It seemed to be very

centralized to the government.

Maybe you could share a little bit about

how folks in the government, in the

military under Chavez, lived these

incredible lives with wealth and luxury,

while the people were impoverished. Any

anecdotes you could share on that? Yeah,

sure. Look, this is a this is this is a

result that's being

you know, tried in Venezuela and

elsewhere. You get into power through

elections and then from within you start

undermining every single democratic

institution. You go against the media.

You control the media. And it's and you

can see this pattern in Venezuela. So,

how Chavez started, you know, pressing

or or buying space and publicity and

then buying the whole media outlets and

through censorship and and through and

changing the laws in order for to be

very very risky to speak out. And then

it went also with the private sector in

every single area of production. And of

course it took the military as well. I

mean, all those that were the most

competent individuals they were put

aside and only those that were

absolutely loyal to the regime were

ascended. So, this is

you destroy merit merit and

and so that anybody

realizes that if you want to be part of

of the system, if you want to work for

the state or for the academy or in the

military,

it has nothing to do with your

competence or knowledge or talent, but

you have to be absolutely loyal and and

bow your head to the regime. And and and

this progressively imagine all the

resources that were coming in because

you you said something very important

that some people do not realize. I mean,

the the the the barrel of oil was around

10 or eight when Chavez arrived. It went

up to 150

dollars a barrel. Imagine the amount of

resources. It was all the money in the

world that they used effectively to buy

loyal and and and to lobby around the

world and to support ideological groups

all over all over the the the western

hemisphere

So, and and these groups and these let's

say these stands

and get getting contact with each other.

They exchange technology, they exchange

information, they support each other in

international forms. And that's why you

know, they get so powerful in their

different areas and and and countries.

On the other hand, what we have seen is

that democracies and democratic

movements in our in our side of the

world are very isolated. We we don't

help each other. We don't support each

other as we should. I I think this is

one of the great lessons that we we

learned in these 20 years.

Regarding the the the amount of

resources, look, there are estimates

that the the the the the

the tag that the that Venezuela was

robbed is over 2 trillion dollars.

Imagine what we're talking about in

these 26 years. And uh and this was all

either

went for corruption as I said or for

this kind of obscene

fortunes these very few individuals have

while 86% of our population nowadays

lives in in poverty.

The pensions in Venezuela are less than

$1 a month, David. $1 a month.

Yeah. And so you're under Chavez

there was also this embracing or tie-up

with the drug trade, the FARC

ELN in Colombia. What is the alignment?

What was the reason that the Chavez

regime and now the Maduro regime

aligns with the drug cartels given the

oil wealth

given the international diplomatic ties

because of the oil trade. Why is there

also a drug tie-up and what is the

motivation and the incentive and drive

there?

Well, the the the drug business isn't

new. Actually, it started before Chavez

arrived and many individuals in the

military had had ties to them, but they

realized it could be even much more

the margins are even larger than than in

oil and the greed in these individuals

in these criminal structures are

unlimited. It's infinite. So, they not

only went into drugs and drug

trafficking, they went into

gold smuggling, arm smuggling, even

human trafficking. I mean, every single

criminal network

in the world has has you know, converged

into Venezuela that has been turned into

a safe haven for for the enemies of of

of the west and and the enemies of the

United States. Imagine, I mean, Caracas

is 3 hours away from Miami. So, having

you know, a satellite of Russia, of Iran

operating in the heart of the Americas

it's it's something that you know, these

these regimes around the world have

always dreamt of.

Even terrorist groups such as Hezbollah,

Hamas uh to which Chavez and Maduro have

given

thousands of Venezuelans identities and

passports to travel around freely around

the world.

So, under Chavez the GDP declined 70%.

There was mass starvation, highest crime

rates in the world, 90% poverty rate.

Much of the stories and and anecdotes

have been reported publicly by

international organizations.

You are 32 years old when Chavez comes

to power.

Three years later

you start a civil organization called uh

Sumate. What were you doing when Chavez

came to power professionally? And what

motivated you to get involved in the

civic engagement that carried you

forward to today?

Well, I had been working in in the

private uh auto parts and steel industry

following my father's steps.

And and also I was involved in a in a an

NGO that took over a children shelter

for abandoned and abused children and

and and you know,

I I as I say, I had never thought I

would get involved into politics, but

once this you know, this individual

arrives and it's evident for us that he

was promoting

the division of our country to create

tensions, to to divide even families,

even my own family.

Uh the the degree of of hatred, of

violence in in his speech, the way he he

wanted to

um to create tensions among religions,

races.

It it you realize that that was going to

turn

part of our country and a group of

friends, all engineers, decided that we

will work to to gather petitions for a

recall referendum. We thought it was

going to be like a super easy task to

get, you know, 6 million

petitions in a few weeks. And and and

you know, we we learned the hard way it

was it would require a totally new

uh kind of citizen organization

and that's how Sumate, which means join

up, uh

finally was managed to gather the the

petitions in just one day. People

millions of people came out and signed

these

petitions. It's a long story. Chavez

eventually uh committed fraud in in the

referendum and and stayed in power and

and got even more and more autocratic as

the years passed by. So, were you doing

Sumate full-time? Did that become your

life's work at that point? And then how

did you make the decision to run for the

National Assembly?

Which was in 2011. Fast forward nine

years after founding Sumate.

>> Yeah. Sumate was like an awakening for

me and for many Venezuelans. We we

realized that we could not rely

our citizenship in political parties and

that you cannot be complaining about

politics if you're not willing to do

your own part. And that's why you know,

it came a day when I said, "Look, you

know, I I

I know how politics

are doing, how it works. I don't like

it. So, I cannot complain if I'm not

willing to take my own steps. So, I I

took this fellowship to to to a program

in leadership at Yale University.

And and it you know, it was like seeing

my life

from above

and I made that huge decision that I was

going you know, go for it. I was I was

going to run for Congress.

I had no political party. I had no

experience. You know, everything was

against me. Everybody told me you are

crazy. You are never going to win. You

are never going to get support. Nobody's

going to support someone, you know,

whose family has resources, who's a

woman. You are divorced.

You are not a socialist. I mean, I had

every single condition to fail.

>> [laughter]

>> And

uh I I I decided, you know, I

I felt

it was my responsibility. I could not,

you know,

get afraid of

and and I trust my own, you know,

feeling.

And

it was impressive.

You know, volunteers started

you know, contacting me and in a matter

of months

with no money whatsoever, no

organization, no media, nothing.

Uh I won I won the primaries and then I

for the for the National

uh

Assembly.

And that was in 2000

uh, 10 and and then I won the the

election with the highest number of

votes in in Venezuelan Congress history.

Amazing. How much of a role did the

internet play? I worked at Google a long

time ago and we always had this

conversation that the internet

is going to create a democratization of

information

that you no longer had centralized

control of information through media and

in the case of Venezuela that is

effectively controlled by a government

that wants to stay in power.

Did the internet play a role in giving

you the ability to reach people around

the country in 2010 to be able to get

elected? Absolutely. And not only that,

in 2010, I wouldn't have won if it

wasn't through the internet.

>> Right. I mean, no media outlet would

dare to interview me. And it was a way

in which we could organize because we

had no resources.

But further ahead

let me tell you, I know how there are so

many concerns about the use of

technology by by the by bad guys and and

and by by the regimes that are

autocratic and Venezuela is, you know,

what? A textbook case of how you get

infiltrated, persecuted, manipulation

and so on.

But if it wasn't for technology

we wouldn't be here at the threshold

of freedom. And and this is something

that we need to really highlight it.

So you are, like all great revolutionary

leaders, speaking truth to power. You

have a seat at the table now.

You're in the National Assembly.

And then in March of 2014 you address

the Organization of American States

about Venezuela's human rights.

And then a few days later you were

expelled from the assembly. And then

there's all this legal stuff that

happened which we don't need to get

into.

But can you just frame up what happened

in that moment? Kind of what your your

narrative is on the transition where

they said you can no longer be a

representative here anymore.

Well, I had had a previous experience

just one year before

because we went for a presidential

election and we won against Maduro when

Chavez died.

And they they committed fraud and we

weren't able to prove it that that we

had won.

And that was in in in in April 2013 and

and I went back to the National

Assembly, I stood up and I said Maduro

is not the legitimate president. We won.

And suddenly I hear someone calling my

name, I turn around and there was this

member of the parliament of the Chavista

regime that hit me on in the face

and she broke my nose in five pieces.

And

and and and we were locked in in

Congress. I was thrown to the floor, I

was kicked by this And Diosdado was

watching everything. He was the person

that

the National Assembly. So this was, you

know, an an evidence that violence

had gotten out of control. Imagine if

you can do that in a in a TV TV, it was

seen on TV

throughout the the country and the world

while while they were assaulting us. So

next year we started peaceful protest

and and

the regime

ordered young

people that were in the streets, you

know, just with with with with flags to

be shot at.

So I went to the OAS, Organization of

American States and it was the first

time Maduro was accused of human rights

violations internationally. As soon as I

came back

they they they, you know, just ejected

me from the National Assembly and by

force prohibited me from going back into

my seat.

So

um

it was a very hard moment but at the

same time it was a great opportunity

because

I realized

that I needed to reach out personally

to to our country and create a totally

new organization that promoted our ideas

and prepare for the next stage of of the

struggle.

And this was in 2014.

Can you share about the Maduro

transition? Maduro is on paper seemingly

wouldn't have been the natural successor

to Chavez.

He started out as a bus driver and then

he was a union leader. It's unclear from

the outside what makes Maduro

the the selected successor to Chavez.

What is it about him as a man, as a

person, with his character that made him

the successor to the Chavez regime?

Well, Maduro was trained in Cuba. So it

was the Cubans who chose Maduro.

It was a very easy option for them,

totally loyal

to the communist

Castro regime.

And um

Maduro has no no

you know, no

nothing restricts him from exercising,

you know, violence and and and and and

force

for his ideas.

And certainly he doesn't have Chavez

charisma.

Uh, not not the the degree of control in

in the other groups. So they were

creating, you know, like a group of of

individuals that at the control of the

the system, the strategy, the the

structure

that control the military, the financial

enablers,

the criminal networks and the political

sectors. And that's how he he went over

taking more and more control and turning

Venezuela, as I mentioned before, into

this

safe haven of criminal activities.

And he himself turned into the head of

these structures. When we heard about

the Tren de Aragua, now about the Cartel

de los Soles, the Cartel of the Suns. I

mean, these are structures that we have

denounced for years.

And we have tried the the world to

understand that this was not a

conventional dictatorship anymore.

This is a you know, a very complex

structure that that, you know, produces

obscene amounts of resources

not only for that but also for very

dangerous allies that come from very far

such as the ones I mentioned before,

Iran, terrorist groups and so on. They

you know, they turn Venezuela into one

of of the Russians' main buyers of of

army

and and and weapons and also one of the

I would say that the major stronghold of

the Iranian regime abroad. I mean, they

use Venezuelan financial system to

bypass financial sector financial

sanctions and and they use our territory

to to operate freely.

And what about China? Can you share a

little bit about China's relationship

with Venezuelan leadership and Maduro

and when that

became a more kind of intimate economic

tie?

Well, Venezuela turned uh, to be

China's main

debtor with over 60 60 billion

uh,

dollars in in debts and that

you know, accounted for all kinds of

different projects that were never

built. And and and certainly China

realized that Venezuela's, you know,

natural endowments are unique,

absolutely unique. It was strategical.

Um, nonetheless uh, the the degree of

corruption in the system and in this

system is so so big that China stopped

funding Maduro about seven years ago and

simply is getting, you know, the oil to

to pay for the debts that are still

um, pending. Um,

I I I believe

China, you know, understands the the the

strategic importance Venezuela has also

for its geographic location and but but

has been more prudent because of the

degree of of corruption that they have

suffered from from Maduro and and the

regime. But but there's also the side of

the, you know, the intelligence,

uh, espionage,

uh, and technology and satellites from

China that have been installed in

Venezuela. That's a very important

dimension for that as well.

Venezuela is a country of I think 28

million people.

By some estimates, 8 million people have

fled the country. Does that feel

accurate to you and can you provide some

anecdotes of why people leave, where

they go and what it's like in the

country that's causing this mass exodus

of the population? Look, we're

the

nation of a little over 30 million. I

mean, this is a country where you have

no information whatsoever. Imagine

living in a country where you don't know

how many you are. You don't know

what's the the size of your debt or your

GDP or or inflation, nothing. It's a

black box. You know, that's that's

that's why it's also a challenge in

terms of what's coming up. But

um

roughly 9 million people have left. It

is, you know, around 30% of our

population. Imagine if a 30%

of the American people leave, what it

would mean. No, it's devastating because

we're seeing, you know, our young

people, our children doctors, engineers,

scientists, nurses, teachers. And

of course they go because the situation

from the economic perspective is is

horrible. But mostly because you don't

see a future

in your own country because you feel

there's no possibility to survive.

So,

women that have left their young

children back only to sell something for

them to eat. Children that have left

their parents alone. I I've met so

many so many grandparents

that have not met their grandchildren

yet. And And they cry and help me and

ask me, "Please, please bring my

grandchildren back." And we all know

that the only possibility for that to

happen is that we, you know, have a

transition to democracy. And when that

happens, David, you will see the day

Maduro goes,

hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans

voluntarily coming back. Even though

they know it's a hard moment that will

have, you know, to work really hard. But

we we know the potential that unique

potential. And And, you know, they want

to be part of this It's much more than a

political struggle.

For us, it's an existential struggle as

a nation and also a spiritual struggle

as well.

A lot of people will say, "Why don't

they go on the streets today?"

Can you talk a little bit about the

intimidation

of the Maduro regime

and why it's so difficult for people to

rise up in the way that we have seen

other revolutions historically around

the world. What keeps that from

happening? What are the mechanisms that

are used to stay in power uh by the

Maduro regime? Look, and and we have

seen that in Venezuela at many times as

well. I mean, we're talking about

thousands of times in protest, in

peaceful, you know, rallies, in people

going out by by tens of thousands of and

even hundreds of thousands. But the

regime has developed this regime,

Maduro, with the Cuban intelligence

mechanisms to infiltrate. And anyone who

goes out is either detained, harmed,

killed, disappeared. When we won the

election last year, July 28th, thousands

of people went to the streets while we

were counting the votes. So, want to

tell you a little bit more ahead. And,

you know, in a matter of 24 hours, 2,500

people were in prison, including

young people,

children, women that were even sexually

assaulted, abused just because they had

gone out to the streets to peacefully

claim for their right

for popular sovereignty to be respected.

But they went beyond that, David. They

went to the houses

of our of our of our activists that had

been taking care of the election, that

that worked as witnesses, that took care

of the tally sheets. And And And they

took them away. And if they weren't

there,

then they would grab their families,

their mothers, their children, their

their couples. And And And

Every single person who even posted my

picture on their on their, you know,

Instagram account or X account,

whatever, they would go and take them as

well.

So, it was so brutal

uh

that the Inter-American Commission of of

human rights labeled it as state

terrorism. And the fact-finding mission

of United Nation

uh has said those are crimes against

humanity. It was so wide, so systematic

that what they wanted is to terrify

a society.

So,

we've had these last 15 months a period

of of darkness as we've never seen

before.

I I was accused of terrorism. Maduro is

searching for me.

He said I would spend the rest of of my

life in prison. Some people think it it

would be even worse. Um

But, you know,

all my team, which, you know, managed

the campaign, this incredible campaign

that took place, are either in prison

or they had to leave the country. So,

this is the moment in which, you know,

fear

uh

has been,

you know, imposed

by by brutal force. But that doesn't

mean that Venezuelan society is

neutralized in the country.

As we managed to organize for an

incredible epic episode when we won the

election, now we have been organizing

underground and preparing for the day in

which transi- democracy will come and

people will make sure it is an orderly

process.

Maduro has

publicly said many times that you are a

puppet of the West,

that the US and its allies are trying to

interfere in Venezuelan politics because

of their economic interest in the

Venezuelan oil reserves. I want to give

you a moment to respond to those claims.

I think you've done an amazing job

highlighting your motivation and the

on-the-ground experience, but

um can we counter or have a conversation

about this belief,

which, by the way, many have made

because of the US involvement in Middle

East and Middle East politics,

and the US's absence of involvement in

politics in countries that are not

oil-rich? Maybe we could talk a little

bit about the the importance of this for

the West,

not just the economic interest, but, you

know, what else is motivating this and

why is the US interested in supporting

your cause? That claim is not very

original. I mean, that's what all of

these guys say to anyone that speaks

out, if even if it's, you know,

a a a union leader, student, or a

priest.

And frankly, you know, I couldn't care

less for what they say. You know, we

know what we are, what we believe, and

what the people and why people trust us.

We have managed to build the strongest

citizen movement in our country's

history.

Starting on 2023 when Venezuela looked

hopeless and divided and without a

chance to move ahead,

we reached out to every single I went to

every single corner of my country. Look,

I went with my car because I've been

banned from leaving Venezuela for over

12 years. I'm not even allowed to buy a

a local flight ticket. So, they thought

they were hurting me, but actually they

they gave me that biggest opportunity to

to to, you know, go through my country

from one point to the other and to talk

to people, to listen, to learn, to

understand, to get really close in terms

of what we are and what we believe, to

turn down those barriers the regime had

built to divide us, and to find out that

this is not about left or right, rich or

poor, black or white. It is about human

dignity.

It's about respect, solidarity,

cooperation, freedom, and love. And

love,

which is the strongest force that has

brought us together. You know, I've seen

people that were close to the Chavistas

for years coming to me, crying, hugging

me, asking for forgiveness. And I said,

"No, I have nothing to forgive. You

know, we have a common

goal now. We have a common vision.

We all want our kids back

home. And that's precisely what's

happening right now. So,

look,

Venezuela

is for me the country with the

largest opportunities, not only for the

United States and the rest of the West.

I mean,

imagine. And I'm not talking about our

natural endowments, which are huge.

We'll already address that, or

infrastructure, or even our geographical

position.

It's our people, what if you have

endured, and the way we have come

together. And I've heard recently some

people talking about that, you know,

once Maduro goes out, because he will

leave soon, you know, there's this risk

of of, you know, um

civil war or unrest. Give me a break.

We're talking about a country where 90%

of the population, we all want the same.

There are no religious differences,

there are no racial tensions, no social

or political differences. We all want

the same. And we have fought so hard for

freedom that we are the ones who are

guaranteeing that this will be an

orderly transition. And yes, we are

close to the United States values and

culture. Yes, we are.

We admire a nation

that has strong democratic institutions,

that feels proud for for their

achievements, their history, their

legacy. And so are we. So, look,

you know,

those kind of socialist rhetoric

nowadays is useless in Venezuela.

You know, we only know socialism. And

Venezuela today is a country I believe

that, you know, most people embrace open

markets, respect for private property,

merit, and collaboration.

I want to just talk about the election,

and then I'd like to ask your view on

the United States today. But let's talk

about the election. 2 years ago, you ran

for president.

You won the primary

with a resounding victory in October 26,

2023. Today, you're sitting in a

basement.

You're not in the office of the

president. Can we walk through what

happened? What was that campaign like?

How did you reach the people given that

you didn't have access to the state

media and then maybe share a little bit

about that primary victory and what

happened afterwards? Yeah, you know,

we realized

as I said in in January 2023

that we need

needed to get

you know, trust back in the Venezuelan

people. Trust ourselves and trust each

other. And and the primary

had this incredible

opportunity of giving power to the

people and not the political parties

that used to decide, you know, what

which the candidates were. So,

we decided to go for a primary and a

primary in which the regime would not

get involved. Uh in in Venezuela in

previous primaries process the the the

regime electoral uh or uh entity would

organize the primaries and we said this

time no way. We're going to do it all

organized by citizens. It was

a huge challenge and a great risk.

And we believe the regime totally

underestimated us. They thought that

perhaps, you know, 100, 200,000 people

might appear and vote and so on.

And and that's why they they let it go,

let it run.

And when October 22nd, you know, it's 2

years ago exactly, they came.

I was a candidate. There were 10

candidates and I thought, well, it's a

miracle that that it's just this is

happening as we as as as we're seeing

it.

At mid-morning around 10:00 or 11:00 in

the morning, I started getting calls

from all around the country saying, "We

ran out of ballots." I said, "What do

you mean? I mean, it's it's only 3 hours

of of the process. What do you mean?

We ran out of ballots." So many people

showed up. Over 3 million Venezuelans.

And it was such a courageous act, David,

because going out meant that you were

voting for the opposition. No, so

this was huge. I'm talking about remote

towns that we need to have river boats

in order to get the results.

And and also Venezuelans around the

world because I insisted and many of us

that Venezuelans abroad our diaspora

should be allowed to vote. So, that day

our country came together.

I I I I am humbled. I am grateful.

I I got 92% of the votes and and Maduro

realized that, you know, they they

wouldn't be able to stop me. So, they

they banned me

from participating.

I confess to you that it was

one of those really tough days in your

life because it was so unfair. I mean, I

had a mandate.

But, you know, I could have blown

everything, but I decided, "No, we have

to keep on going and we're going to have

find someone that is willing to take my

place."

And once again, the regime

underestimated us because they accepted

a 74-year-old

diplomat that nobody knew who he was. A

super honest, loyal, intelligent, good

person. No one knew who he was. This is

Edmundo González. Edmundo, exactly.

Edmundo González son, our

president-elect.

And I had a poster

with his face. So, I went all over the

country telling, "If you want to vote

for me, you have to vote for him." And

this is the guy.

And

at the same time, remember we had had

over 30 elections that progressively

were more and more and more and more

fraudulent. I mean, sorry. Edmundo

González, he became your candidate in

July of 2024 last summer, just to be

clear, right?

>> In

in in May. May. Okay. Yeah.

>> May. The elections were in July. Yeah.

Elections were in July. So,

imagine at this time, I mean, nobody

knew who the candidate was

and we everybody knew we were facing the

most fraudulent system in the world. I

mean,

the concept of a fraud elections that

are being spread in around the world, it

was born here in Venezuela. With the

electronic machines and all the the

stuff they've been creating around it.

Fear, manipulation, altering the

uh register list and so on.

So, we realized that we needed to use

technology in our favor.

And that's why we managed to create a

legion

of volunteers.

We trained them without the regime

noticing that we were training them.

There were 5,000 uh

sessions in person and over 300,000

people trained by the internet.

We develop

apps for for cellular phones in which,

you know, we will monitor every single

polling station around the the country.

How many people did you recruit to this

legion for the ballot monitoring?

>> It ended up being more than 1 million

volunteers. Everyone with a specific

task.

David, we had no money.

We could not print flyers or posters.

You know

how much was our uh publicity

budget?

Zero.

We didn't paid for one ad, nothing.

When we went around the countries and we

stayed

in hotels,

the regime would come the next day and

close the hotel.

If we went and stopped in the street to

to buy some food,

then they will punish the the the

restaurant or or the snack place. I

mean, they they blocked streets. They

they got our people in in prison,

persecuted those that were in control of

the electoral and and organization

departments. I mean, this was huge, but

they turned this into an epic.

And and citizens decided that it was

going to be their own epic, their own

victory. So, we trained all these people

with our diaspora. We we we had these

apps

designed and

we knew, and this is a very important

part, that we had to prove our victory.

For the first time, we needed to prove

the results.

So, we designed a a system through which

we would collect the original tally

sheets. We would scan them

and we will publish them in a digitized

webpage super robust for the whole world

to see.

And in order to do this, imagine we are

in a country where 60% of our territory

doesn't have access to the internet or

even cellular phones.

So, we needed to geo-optimize,

you know, process

centers to process the the physical

tally sheets. And we did that uh with

mobile, Starlink, and uh antennas

[clears throat] into the country,

generators,

laptops, cell phones. And without the

regime noticing it, we

we we installed these 130 operational

places

and in less than 24 hours, we were able

to prove our victory

with the, you know, the images, original

images of the tally sheets being seen

and scrutinized by the whole world. They

were audited by over 20 different

independent

technicians and universities and they

all concluded that those were the real

results. So, to be honest, I think we do

have set a new standard for electoral

integrity, not only in dictatorships,

even in even for democracies.

And

the the data that you shared showed that

you won a resounding victory. Your party

won the the presidency

and Maduro declared himself the winner.

Since then, he's issued a warrant for

your arrest.

What is next for you? What is next for

the country?

Look,

it's been such a long way. I mean, it's

I have so many colleagues and friends

that are currently in jail,

that are very far away or even killed. I

mean, this has been very painful.

>> [snorts]

>> But at the same time,

we have grown so much. I mean, we're a

different society, but also we're

different and better individuals.

We've learned

the value

of living in a democracy and being free.

And uh

now we've come such a long way.

We defeated Maduro in the hearts and

minds of the Venezuelan people. We

defeated Maduro

in the ballot boxes. We defeated Maduro

in the spirit of Venezuela. And now the

only thing he's got left

he's he's, you know, violence and a few

uh top brass individuals and financial

enablers that have terrified those uh in

the military that still are, you know,

supporting him. But,

you know, these last 15 months of

resilience and resistance have created

more and more pressure from within and

now finally we're seeing a reaction from

abroad. For years we have to ask the

world to understand that this is a

criminal structure and as such, in order

to to break it down, you need to cut the

inflows of criminal money that comes

from drug trafficking, from gold

smuggling, from human trafficking, from

all or the black market of oil. You need

to cut those inflows and that's

precisely what President Trump is doing

right now.

And and and we are very grateful to see

this international coalition that is

applying, you know, the law the

enforcement of the law on this criminal

structure, which is what we need. I

mean, Maduro

for so so this long years have

felt

that he could, you know, disappear,

kill, torture people with absolute zero

zero cost. But the time of his impunity

has ended. And and and you know, I I

believe the regime is at its

weakest position ever. They understand

this is serious. There is a, you know, a

real threat and we are seeing

defections,

betrayals, and more and more people from

within the regime reaching to us. And

what we are saying is, look, we had

offered possibility of a negotiated

transition and now that that that day is

close, we offer, you know, everybody

that decide to step on the side of the

law that they can be part of this huge

transformation of Venezuela.

Mhm.

Can you highlight the moments of the

American presidencies, the American

administrations,

Obama, Biden, Donald Trump,

and how they have supported the cause

and what's different today?

I do have to say that, you know,

we've had bipartisan support and you see

that in Congress even yesterday, you

know, and and because

there you know, sensible

individuals in the Senate, in the House

that understand

that it's, you know, it's for a

humanitarian reasons because of its

millions of lives at risk in Venezuela,

but it's also for the national security

of the United States. I think that's,

you know, it's pretty well proven at

this point. Um, but

so far, um, you know, the world the

words, only statements and no actions.

And and when you face a criminal regime,

uh, you have to understand that, you

know, the way to reach peace is through

freedom and freedom requires strength.

And that is moral strength, spiritual

strength, and physical strength. And and

that's what finally the regime is facing

at this point. So, you know, we are very

we are very very grateful

to President Trump and his

administration for, you know, the

visionary and decisive way he has acted,

calling things by their names. It

requires courage. There are a lot of

people who are willing to do that

before. So now the

we

are prepared

for an orderly transition.

We know what we need to do in the first

100 hours, 100 days to take control of

the institutions and our territory.

Um, Venezuela has been destroyed in

every [clears throat] possible way. You

see it in our economy, in our security,

in our national sovereignty, in in in in

you know, in the public services, basic

services that people require.

But our people are tougher and stronger

[clears throat]

than him.

And we are determined

to be free.

So,

this is going to be like it's going to

be a rebirth. We're going to turn

Venezuela from

the criminal hub of the Americas into

the energy hub, the technology hub,

and the democracy hub of the Americas.

And and it we will need to do that from

from from scratch, from ruins. But but,

you know, we have a huge incredible

diaspora that are willing to come back.

Imagine, you know, with all the

resources we have, you know, the energy

that the capacity to to produce energy,

not only natural gas and

hydroelectricity,

solar and so on, you know, we can we are

going to be so attractive for

for those who want to invest, as I said,

not only in energy, but in technology,

AI, data centers. I mean, we have

everything to turn Venezuela into a

bright and and proud nation very fast.

And before we wrap, Maria Corina, I'd

love to just ask you an important

question, which is we are seeing a rise

of interest in socialism that's

unprecedented in the history of the

United States.

Largely fueled by what some would argue

is a a challenging income growth

situation, student loan debt. I mean,

it's a very different situation than

Venezuela,

but many middle class American children

are finding themselves unable to

progress like every generation before

them in US history. They cannot seem to

create a better lives for themselves

than their parents.

And as a result, we are seeing in cities

like New York, Zohran Mamdani being the

favorite to become mayor.

And presidential candidates being

discussed that maybe also have

a socialist agenda and socialist

interest. I want to give you an

opportunity to speak to the youth of

America

about the lessons learned

with what Venezuela has gone through

with its socialist cycle here.

And maybe something that you could share

that could help them think a little bit

more differently about the choices ahead

for the American democracy.

Yes, um,

we went through the same experience.

You know, 26 years ago people would warn

us and say, you know, watch out

what socialism and communism could bring

to you and we would always answer,

Venezuela is not Cuba. That's not going

to happen to us.

And at the end, look what, you know, the

disaster, devastation we had, you know,

9 million of our people spread around

the world. And and the fact is that you

can only live in peace and prosperity if

you have freedom

and and democracy. That's our lesson.

And and those who offer

to give you for free what you need to

get on your own with hard work, at the

end end up,

you know, charging you

with the the most valuable

asset you could have, which is your

freedom, your capacity to decide and to

make your own decisions. And um,

that's that's a great lesson. I mean,

when you have the state on top of you,

uh, that means whole society will

probably be equal

in misery and poverty. So,

the the American institutions and

American spirit and American dream. And

I think these temptations come

uh, many times and they they are good

because they make

societies reflect on what they have and

understand that freedom freedom and

democracy are to be defended,

taken care of every single day of your

life. When you lose it, it's very hard

to get it back. And and that's the

lesson we're going to give to our

children and our grandchildren. And I I

believe

uh,

the American people

value what they have and I hope that,

you know, having so many Venezuelan

people around you can also

gets you an idea of of of of the threats

and dangers of these systems.

Maria Corina,

courageous speaking truth to power.

I cannot think of a more powerful regime

to speak truth to.

And I thank you for your courage, for

your leadership. Congratulations on

winning the Nobel Peace Prize and thank

you for joining me here today.

Thank you. It was a pleasure and I look

forward to hosting you in a free

Venezuela where you will see, you know,

great investment, great prosperity, and

also peace and freedom from Venezuela to

the rest of the region. Thank you so

much, David. Thank you.

>> [music]

>> I'm going all in.