Maybe you could tell us a little bit

about how you selected our presenters

and your vision for this. I mean for any

of you guys who've been involved in Ira

this is a gentleman that passed away

from cancer far too young and his family

created this thing called the sone

foundation and they would host this

event and it started in Lincoln Center

and they would ask these managers and so

at the time I was like a young venture

investor and I got this invite and I

showed up in New York at Lincoln Center

in 2015 and I said Amazon's going to be

a trillion dollar company and I was

laughed out of the room. Uh David

Einhorn, who's a friend of mine, but who

was totally wrong, said, "I know

trillion dollar companies. This is not a

trillion dollar company." Wrong.

It turned out to be a great bet. I went

back. I did Tesla in 2016. We picked the

converts. And then in 2017, I was like,

"All right, this is my this is this is

it. This is my magnumopus." And I said,

"AI is the future." And then I picked

box.

I was like, if I had just picked Nvidia,

I would have been an Irish legend legend

and I could have retired. Anyway, so we

wanted to recreate Iris and start to get

these great managers who are making

great picks, making a ton of money for

their LPs. They don't get the

distribution and so it's just a chance

to like get to know some of these names.

You don't have to see them on CNBC.

You'll see them here more and more

often. And we can just get to Opine.

>> Roll the video.

>> Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to

the best ideas pitch. Let's meet our

contestants.

>> Anyone should be able to trade any asset

anywhere in the world, anytime, 24/7,

with just an internet connection and a

phone in their pocket.

>> We're building a new financial system

from the ground up here.

>> People are going to want to own

equities, and it's going to be fun. In

the next couple years, companies going

to innovate and create products and

applications, and that's where hopefully

long short managers like us can make a

boatload of money.

>> My fund, Eco R1 Capital, which is based

in San Francisco, thinks of investing in

biotech in a slightly different way.

We're looking for unfollowed, unloved,

misunderstood biotech companies.

>> It's an amazing moment in time for those

types of companies. There's been a

structural and permanent perception

shift where both sides of the aisle are

going to be leaning into nuclear in a

big way.

>> I'm massively optimistic. You know, all

of this leads me to just the maximum

risk on.

>> Thanks the besties for having me. And

this is obviously a fabulous event you

guys have put on. I'm happy to be here.

Um, for those of you who don't know me,

um, I run a $4 billion firm in New York

called Serreta Capital. Um, before

founding my firm, I was, uh, I ran the

equities business for George Soros. Uh,

I was then CIO for Steve Cohen. Uh, and

I've been doing hedge funds now for 29

years. So, um, definitely on the older

edge of my my pure group. Um, so I was

thinking about, you know, I run a

generalist fund. Um, and you know, we

own a bunch of tech stocks, but you

know, given this audience here, for me

to pitch a tech stock would be

absolutely completely stupid. Um, so I

was thinking about what else. And you

know, obviously the theme of this

conference besides tech is poker. So I'm

going to pitch to you MGM. Now most of

you know MGM as uh you think about it as

the Vegas um company. They own 13

properties in Vegas. Um they're one

they're them and Caesars are the two

largest owners of uh casino assets in

Vegas. Um now if you notice um the other

day um Caesars got taken out. Um and so

we think Vegas is actually starting to

improve. Um but I'm not here to pitch

MGM because of Vegas. What I'm

going to tell you is there's a couple of

things we noticed. One is this company's

been very aggressively been stock's been

aggressively acquired by Barry Dillard

lately. Um Barry now owns 26% of the

company. Um now I put this presentation

together two weeks ago. Yesterday he

actually bid for the company. Okay. So

when I put the presentation together the

stock was about $37. It's now high40s.

He bid $48. Okay. I would not sell my

shares to him.

>> When did we get this presentation? Did

we get it early enough to trans?

>> Uh I would not sell his I would not sell

my stock to him for a second. And the

reason is also besides him buying the

stock, the company's also been buying

the stock. Rarely have I ever seen a

company in 6 years buy half their float

back. So you have Barry Diller who's the

legend aggressively buying the stock and

it's also now 80% of his NAV. Okay. So

you most people think of Barry Diller as

the ABC producer. He did I which owned

assets like Expedia and now he's a

casino guy. What is going on here? So we

spent a lot of time

um asking ourselves why um and why is

MGM has two hidden assets. Okay. The

first one

is, and this is sort of our the

punchline of what we think the stock is

worth. So you add the Vegas assets plus

China, you get about little low60s. So

from $48 or 37 when I started this,

great return. What is they what they

have now is a license to open a casino

in Aaka, Japan. Japan a couple years ago

went through a whole referendum around

the country. They have prefixures. The

prefixures voted. The only one that

decided to own open a casino is Osaka.

Now Osaka is and this is what the

asset's going to look like. It's going

to open in 2030. If you go to the

company slide presentations, they sort

of mention this, but they're not really

talking about it. Um, Japan, just for

you people, um, sorry, I don't know,

this is very slow. Um, Japan actually

has a reasonably large gambling market.

They have pachinko parlors and they have

horses. That's about a $40 billion

market. If you look at the market in

Macau, that's $30 billion. And if you

look at Vegas, it's only $10 billion.

So, this could be a massive opportunity.

Um, you know, we're estimating they'll

do about $2 billion of IBIDA. They own

40% of the property. Um, they also get a

management fee for this. Um, if you also

look at where Osaka is located, it's a

great, you know, so the Japanese like to

gamble, but the Chinese really gamble.

Okay. So, if you look at where it is

from Shanghai, it's shorter than Macau

and Singapore, which are the two big

gaming options in Asia. And from and

from Beijing, about the same distance as

Macau, and obviously much shorter than

going to Singapore. So, if you want to

go gambling for a weekend and you live

in Shanghai, live in Beijing, Osaka is

great. It's also a first world nation.

Um, and if you think about as an

investor, where would you want to have

your money? Look, Macau has issues. It's

a low multiple business. This is Japan.

It's a first world country. So, we think

Barry Diller is understands gambling. He

understands casinos. But what he's

really doing is now trying to pick off

the company to get the Japanese

opportunity which we think is worth will

more than double the stock. The final

option and I'm keeping this simple. What

I love about this pitch is it's really

simple. It's not that hard to do the

math. MGM is built somebody they're

they're they're branding they're

building a property in Dubai. Okay. Now

it's going to it's a grand complex. It

has an Arya. It has an MGM and it has a

Bellagio. Gambling is illegal in Dubai

right now. Okay. But they have snuck in

this building 300,000 square ft of cu of

space. Well, one day if Dubai decides to

legalize gambling, guess where it's

going? Right there.

Next year, two, sorry, two years from

now, win is going to open a casino in a

place called Ararjan, which is 45

minutes away from Dubai. Now, any of us

who want to go gambling in Dubai, we

arjan's a bit of a pain in the ass to

get to, we're going to want to go here.

So, we think there's a chance that

especially when win opens. Also look,

there's a possibility of the war, you

know, Dubai wants to reestablish

themselves that they open a casino in um

Dubai and you know what that would be

worth. So when you take the Vegas

assets, which we think are worth about

60, when you take Japan, which we think

is worth about 50 bucks, if Dubai

happens, that's worth another $40 or

$50. So we think the stock is a triple.

Bar remember Barry's bidding for the

company. Okay, he is not a strategic

buyer. He is a financial buyer and he's

doing it to get rich. So therefore, I

think this company is now in play. I

don't know how it's all going to play

out, but if you own shares, don't tend

to them. And the riskreward is

incredible right now because, you know,

I'm telling you, I think the stock could

be easily worth over 100, could be worth

150. And now you have Barry Diller who

is a has a firm bid owns 26% of the

company basically at the same price. So

I think this is a cool idea.

>> Well done.

Okay. Uh anybody let's uh do two

questions and uh yeah we'll put we'll

give you both questions at the same time

for efficiency.

>> How much have you looked at like the

monetization of the assets outside of

gambling? I had heard from someone that

Barry Diller was spending a lot of time

trying to reinvent the entertainment

piece of the properties. he was active

on the board and they were trying to

identify that the entertainment property

is way the entertainment value is way

undermonetized and they could be making

a lot more per

>> Okay, don't answer yet. That's question

one.

>> And then question two is how when you

expand internationally do you scale

customer credit because that tends to be

the thing that drives

>> you know people to come back and

>> well obviously MGM let me start with

your question first. MGM has a massive

database of customers, right? So, you

know, I assume the Vegas properties have

guys that come from China, they come

from um Japan. They'll use that database

to do it. They also have a loyalty

program. Um I unfortunately made a bad

investment in a company called Rio, the

Rio, which was in Vegas. Um which we

bought when they separate when Caesar's

merged with El Dorado. Um they had to

shed an asset. Um that was that was uh

the Rio. We I did an investment with a

couple of friends and we were buying the

thing at $200 per square foot. The thing

we forgot was when you separated from

Caesars, you lost the loyalty program

and that ended up two quick questions

from the audience.

>> Wait, I got to ask Kyle's question.

>> Hold on. Question and then from the

audience.

>> Let me get his first.

>> The entertainment question.

>> I don't know the answer. I don't know

the answer to that. If it's if he can

make them better, it will help.

>> But as I'm saying, this is not really a

Vegas. This is an Asian casino play that

>> the and if if you look at their

presentations which is really cool.

>> They are not they barely mention it. So

what one of the things we happened

besides we were hoping one of the cat so

looked I worked at SACE and one of the

things we focus on is catalyst path.

>> So what was the catalyst path? The

catalyst path was they would have an

investor day blah blah blah. Barry just

showed his cards. So, um, but you know,

>> Aaron, two questions. Caesars left Dubai

waiting for a license. Why would this be

different for MGM? That's question one.

>> And then question two is the Osaka

Casino was approved in 2023.

Why was the market ignoring this hidden

asset until the bid?

>> Sure. Let me answer this. So, what's

also cool about this idea was, so I've

been doing this for 29 years. um win um

they opened Macau. So Win started as a

Vegas property then opened Macau. The

market started caring about it about 3

years before it opened. Um so that the

answer is they should care about it. The

reality is it's tends to be about 3

years before it opens. Well, we're

almost in that time frame, which is why

we think it's opportunistically the

right period of time. Um I, you know,

regarding the question with Caesars,

look, this is an option. As I told you,

somebody built this project for them.

They are running it for them and they

were intelligent enough to leave 300,000

square ft of empty space in case they

get a casino. Well, if that happens,

great. If it doesn't, you know, you're

still going to double more than double

your money. So, you know, you if if it

happens, you triple your money.

>> Free option. You're saying

>> it's free option.

>> Well done. Big round of applause.

>> Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

>> Nicely done, Aaron.

Next up, Daniel.

>> Long time no see.

So, today we're doing talent energy. Uh,

but first,

the anatomy of a power cycle.

So, a power cycle typically goes like

this. In normal times, power demand

grows about GDP. So, if GDP grows 2%,

power demand grows two. If GDP grows

three, power demand goes three. And

there's moments in time where we get

technological breakthroughs and a lot of

those technological breakthroughs are

very power intensive. So power demand

spikes

and once everybody adopts that

technology

it trends back down to its onal

algorithm

GDP growth and then you go through the

efficiencies phase where we say let's

try to conserve and figure out ways to

consume less power and then the cycle

starts all over again. So, you know, in

history, the big technological boom that

sent power demand skyrocketing was

appliances and air conditioning.

Everybody had to get their kettles and

and the aircon. Then in the 70s and 80s

and 90s, demand normalized again. But

then the 2000s were all about

efficiencies. You know, we had like LED

lighting, smart HVAC, tinted windows,

smart electronics. And at the same time,

as I said earlier, we were like, you

know, ripping down all our power- hungry

infrastructure like aluminum smelters

and moving over China. So, we had two

decades of effectively no power demand.

And now we're just coming out of it and

starting a technological cycle again

where power demand is going to really

start to explode from these sort of high

2% numbers you're seeing on the screen.

Now, I want to say something right now

that is incredibly important.

We do not need AI demand to keep the

power markets incredibly tight for the

next 20 years.

AI demand just turbocharges.

That's all it does. And it creates

shortages. So just remember that. Early

in my career, I was on a panel with Sam

Zel. Interestingly, it was a panel on

opportunities in Mongolia. I was looking

at a copper mine and he was looking at

real estate. There was one thing he said

that stuck with me for the rest of my

career is he said, "If you can buy an

asset, a hard asset at below replacement

cost for an asset that's going to be

needed in the future where we're going

to need to build new capacity of that

asset. Then you buy that asset at the

discount to replacement cost. You hold

it and you sell it at a big premium to

replacement cost when the market wakes

up. That's exactly we did with Equity

Office properties. Sold it at the peak

of the market but bought it at a

discount to replacement value. Talon

Energy is a power producer. They have 2

gawatts of nuclear power and they've got

6 gawatt of natural gas base load power.

Today in the stock market, as a good

speculation, you could purchase this

company at a $25 billion enterprise

value. the replacement cost is 45

billion. And because they've got debt,

it means that the equity value uh just

to get to replacement cost uh is more

than a double uh from where it's trading

today. And if you follow Sam's playbook,

then we ultimately end this cycle at a

big premium to replacement value.

So when I see this,

I say the plan for America

on the power side has to be this. Make

America great again. Copy China.

If you look what China did over the last

20 years, we started out this cycle with

having 2x the power generation that

China had. Fast forward to today, China

has three times the power generation

capacity that we have. Now, if you

believe that artificial intelligence is

going to be responsible for scientific

breakthroughs, you either have it or you

don't have the scientific breakthroughs.

If you believe that artificial

intelligence is going to drive robotics,

you either have it or you don't have

that productivity from the robots. If

you believe that artificial intelligence

is going to be helpful for national

security and military affairs, then you

either have it or you're dead. And so

this is an absolutely mandatory

buildout that we have to do otherwise

we're going to fall behind because at

the end of the day what is a data

center? You know in my world in the

commodities world I look at a data

center as the exact same thing as a

refinery. In a traditional hydrocarbon

refinery you put oil in crude oil in you

refine it into jet fuel or gasoline for

your car. With a data center, you put

electricity in and on the other end

instead of gasoline or jet fuel out

comes photons or tokens or intelligence,

whatever you want to call it, but it's

the same thing. Big capital inensive

asset, $50 billion per gawatt and power

just like electricity, just like oil is

the input to that refinery. So, here's

Jensen

and uh he was just recently quoted that

we need a thousand times more power than

we currently have. Now, if that's

remotely true, we need every single

source of power that you can imagine. We

need hundreds of gigawatts of nuclear,

we need solar, we need orbital, we need

it all, if this is even remotely true.

But the challenge as we spoke about

before is the supply chain, right? All

of these, you know, a data center

competes for the same supply chain of

the critical minerals that space

launches and orbital data centers do.

Power plants need all the same nickel

super alloys that it takes to launch

rockets and the silver that goes into

these photovalttaic cells. And so and so

there's going to be shortages of

everything and delays everywhere. And my

point here is we are just going to need

every solution that we can throw at this

for the foreseeable future.

So here's a little region in the US

called the PJM, Pennsylvania, Jersey,

Maryland. Uh this is a forecast from the

grid operator where they say that over

the next 10 years we're going to need

106 gawatts of new power in the PJM in

just one little area of the US. Now in

10 years in geological time that's like

tomorrow morning right we're all so used

to internet time you press a button and

you get your food delivered to you or

your car picks you up in two seconds you

know building infrastructure happens in

geological time 10 years to build out

106 gawatt is literally a nancond from

now and you know you see that thermal

coal retirements we ain't retiring those

coal plants because there's no world

where we're going to be building 100

gawatt in 10 years that's the size of

what Japan consumes today for one little

part of the US. And you know what I'll

say is those that understand the supply

chain and what goes into building all

this, everybody's in panic mode because

we know that we don't have the raw

materials to meet this level of demand

that's coming our way. So that's going

to keep existing capacity and power

prices very tight. Now the data center

and the hyperscalers are in a panic.

They're trying everything they can to

source as much power as they can under

long-term PPAs power purchase price

agreements at fixed prices for 20 years.

There's a famous example, you know, I

thought Microsoft was a green company,

but they went and convinced

Constellation Energy, which is a company

that owns the 3M island nuclear reactor,

you know, the one that melted down and

created, you know, the nuclear meltdown

that gave nuclear a bad name for 30

years. It was Microsoft that told them

they needed to start it up. And in order

to incentivize to stimulate their hand

to wallet reflex to start this thing up,

they said, "Power prices stay $50 a

megawatt hour. We'll pay you a hundred a

year for 20 years minimum price for you

guys to start this up." And so here we

have it. Uh 3M Island brought to you by

Microsoft Azure. So, you know, it's

getting harder to do these deals because

the regulators are saying, "Wait a

minute. If you're taking all this power

off the grid for your data center, how

are we going to heat the homes of our

customers?" And so, uh, you know, it

we're getting ourselves into the moment

of what I call crunch time. So, just to

finish up, uh, here are the numbers on

Talon. Um, the stock today is sort of in

the high 300s. If they just do

absolutely nothing, just absolutely

nothing, just sit there and run the

business, let their Amazon data center

contract roll up, these guys will be

generating $50 a share of free cash flow

per year. Again, the stock is in the

high 300. So, it's about seven times

free cash flow. Good infrastructure

assets in the US, traded about 15 times.

So, that's pretty good. You get a double

for basically management just sitting

around and doing nothing. But if they

continue to figure out ways to sign

contracts with data centers at premium

prices or if power prices go up. I mean

the amazing thing right now is in the

PJM where these guys operate, the power

price is still too low to stimulate new

capacity. The math still doesn't work,

which is really mindboggling. So if

power prices go up a bit, they do more

deals, you get to $70 a share of

recurring annual free cash flow, put a

15 multiple on that, that's,50.

But then if they get into building power

plants, right? And right now the

regulator is telling these companies to

go sit in a room, power producer, data

center, come in a room, make a deal so

that you build power and get a good

return on it. And the data center gets

their power gets a good return on it.

And Talon is in a pole position to be

able to do this. If they just build like

4 gawatt of the 100 gawatts that we

need, you could get up to, you know,

over $100 a share of free cash flow. The

stocks in the high30s today. So, uh, go

and buy the shares. It's a good

speculation and, um, we can chat.

>> All right. Not financial advice. Gavin,

go.

>> Gav and go.

>> I just, just very curious like how do

you think about regulatory risks here?

Nobody likes their electricity prices

going up. AI is an increasingly

political issue just like how do you

think about that risk?

>> We need AI and we need to figure this

out. And so there's different ways to

skin a cat here, right? My personal view

is during peak hours, right? If you go

drive down a highway at 4 in the

morning, you know, you would sit there

and say, "Why do we have all this

highway capacity? This is crazy." But

then you go on that same highway at rush

hour, you're like, "Oh, we don't have

enough highway capacity. There's not

enough lanes." Power is the same thing.

There's only a few hours a day where you

really stress the system. And so I think

the working solution to get around this

regulatory issue is you do the PPAs with

the data centers. You force the data

centers to throw a ton of battery behind

it and some peakers just to get through

that really intense period. And then uh

that's a good band-aid solution until we

build more power. So there's ways to do

this. Human ingenuity is going to win

here. We're going to get our data

centers and consumer power bills are

going to be, I think, relatively under

control. They're going to go up, but

they're going to be under control. Okay,

Dan, I have three questions from the

audience. Really good ones. Number one,

does your thesis actually need behind

the meter collocation to clear or is it

just a bet that clean firm base load is

scarce enough that it doesn't matter

whether power flows in front of or

behind the meter? It's the latter. And

that's why I gave three scenarios,

right? The $50 a share of earnings per

share. Again, a high $300 stock, right?

$50 a share of earnings. Nothing has to

happen. You just sit, right? And you

double your money. Now, if you get more

behind the meter or even front of the

meter, that's how you get up to that $70

a share of earnings from 50. And then if

you get up to the 70, but start building

new capacity, then you get to the $100

plus.

>> Okay. Question two from Brad. How do you

think about competition for power from

things like fuel cells, gas turbines,

aerodyit turbines, orbital compute, and

other sort of IPs, independent power

producers.

>> We need all of it. We need all of it. We

we you know fuel cells and you know the

Caterpillar solar turbines these are

fantastic bridge solutions but the cost

to run these things the LCOE is like

through the roof but you you know look

to build a $50 billion data center you

don't want it to sit idle for 3 years

waiting for your base load CCGT so you

do whatever it takes you don't give a

crap what you pay for that bridge

solution and so we're finding ways

through fuel cells through uh you know

Caterpillar solar turbines hopefully

through orbital data centers where we

can alleviate this because I want AI to

happen in a really big way and we're

going to need all the above.

>> Okay, question three. By the way, great

questions guys. Thank you for these.

What is the right terminal multiple for

Talon if the business mix shifts from

merchant IP to contracted

infrastructure?

>> Fabulous question

>> and and and the addendum here and what

percentage of EBIDA

needs to be contracted before the market

should rerate it? So, that's a great

question and and I only had six minutes

to do this and I think I blew through my

time so I couldn't get into this kind of

detail, but it's something I would have

really wanted to get into. So, whoever

asked that, thank you. Uh, I just use

the 15 multiple because it's sort of a

blended multiple between the contracted

stuff, which will get a big premium

multiple because, you know, it's a bond

like cash flow stream and bond like cash

flow streams trade at a small spread to

treasuries and so treasuries if they're

at 5% should trade at 20 times plus some

growth or whatever, plus or minus. the

uncontracted stuff, the merchant stuff

that has spot market exposure is more

volatile, less visible, that should

trade at a lower multiple. We can get

into the minutia, but just suffice to

say, the more contracts, the higher the

multiple, the less the lower the

multiple. Use 15 times as a good rule of

thumb, and you'll probably get to the

right answer, which is what I used.

>> That last question from Daniel Sherer.

Thank you for that,

>> Dan. Thank you. That was great.

>> Great. Thanks.

My name is Oleg Nelman. I'm the founder

and managing director of Eco1 Capital, a

San Francisco based valueoriented

biotech fund uh that I started about 13

years ago. Thanks a lot to the besties

for having me here. I'm a huge fan of

the pod like I'm sure all of us are and

I know how challenged Science Corner can

get. So, I wrote this in a way that even

David Saxs would appreciate and pay

attention to if if he were here.

>> Well, paradoxically, he's taking a nap,

which is what he normally does during

science corners.

>> Exactly.

>> Generally speaking, investing in biotech

companies is a horrible idea sandwiched

somewhere between movies, wineries, and

spaxs. In fact, our sector often feels a

lot more like a casino than an actual

financial market. And most of the

tourists who are investing are playing

the slots.

Of course, at Eco1, we consider

ourselves poker players in a sector

where virtually everyone else is a

momentum investor betting on science. We

focus on margin of safety. We're one of

the few funds not managed by PhDs or

MDs, and that's by design because we

don't want to fall in love with the

science. We fall in love with the

riskreward. And like the slide says, we

want to monetize other kids science

projects.

This is my 25th year investing in

biotech. I started my career with an

11-year stint at another fund and

launched Eco R1 in 2013, humble

beginnings with 13 million. Since

inception, we've 10xed to our investors

and annualized at 20%. And today we have

about two and a half billion under

management.

We're lucky to have long-term partners,

many of whom are biotech entrepreneurs

themselves, and have been with us since

day one. And we recently reopened for

the first time in four years.

Today I'm going to tell you about a

company that's on the front lines of the

war on cancer. Military terminology has

been used when descri describing

treatments for the disease since the

early 70s when President Nixon signed

the National Cancer Act.

The warfare analogy is actually perfect.

The warfare actually is actually perfect

for cancer because both domains are

trying to accomplish the exact same

thing. find the enemy, figure out the

best weapon to kill them, and have

minimal unwanted casualties along the

way.

First, a quick history of how this war

has evolved.

Early surgical cancer treatment and

radiation was akin to a medieval siege.

Level the entire castle, burn the

surrounding village, and hope the enemy

was left somewhere in the rubble.

Chemo actually evolved from an

accidental observation during World War

I that mustard gas killed rapidly

dividing tissue. Tumor cells divide

fast, so doctors would flood a patient's

body with chemo and hoped it killed the

enemy faster than it killed allies.

Unfortunately, hair, skin, gut, and

marrow cells also divide quickly, and

the poison doesn't discriminate.

First generation targeted therapies were

next, like a GPS guided munition.

Instead of carpet bombing every dividing

cell, you identify the enemy's command

and control center and destroy it. The

problem, like with any weapon, is that

the enemy adapts and hides. And in

cancer, these are called resistant

mutations.

Imunotherapy was first introduced to

patients a decade ago. With IIO, you

don't send in your own troops. You

recruit local allies, also known as T-

cells, and let them do the fighting for

you. Spectacular when it works, but

highly dependent on the terrain or the

tumor micro environment. This brings me

to the reason we're here today.

Modern-day radio pharmaceuticals. Like a

swarm of micro drones small enough to

navigate the bloodstream and find their

target by molecular recognition, then

detonate a precisely sized warhead with

a blast radius of 100 microns or the

diameter of a single cell. An autonomous

assassination with the force of a bunker

buster and minimum collateral damage.

The company I'm going to tell you about

today is Actis Oncology. The ticker is

AKTS. The company has a billion dollar

market cap, a $500 million enterprise

value, and a stockpile of cash, which

should last them over 3 years. Long past

critical milestones that are coming next

year. Actis was started five years ago,

but recently went public with a $300

million IPO that was 18 times

oversubscribed and backstopped with a

hund00 million order by Eli Liy, the

folks who bring you all the weight loss

drugs. The company has designed a

platform that can carry any radioactive

payload, is complex enough to go after a

variety of targets, and small enough to

clear your body with minimal side

effects. The beautiful thing about this

approach is that physicians can verify

target engagement in early clinical

trials with imaging. This significantly

derisks clinical development because you

know the drug is getting to the tumor.

Another de-risking strategy for their

first few programs Actis chose known

valid targets like nectin 4 and B7H3.

Nectin 4 is critical in bladder cancer

and the company's second program

targeting B7H3 is even more ambitious

expressed on every major solid tumor

including the big three prostate,

colurectyl and lung. Actis started

clinical trials last year

and is publicly guided to initial

clinical data in both of these lead

programs in 2027 with Nectton 4 coming

as early as Q1. So you won't have to

wait long. If either program shows a

signal, the company is likely to get

value not only for those programs but

the entire mini protein platform. This

is the holy grail in biotech, getting

value simply for the promise of what

might come.

What's even more compelling is there's

an amazing amount of interest in

radiotherapies from pharma. The big ones

including Bristol, Novartis, Bayer, and

Lily who backs stop the Actis IPO have

been building radiotherapy capabilities

and they're hungry for assets to add to

their pipelines. There's been 15 billion

in M&A and dealmaking in radiotherapy in

the last few years and we're very much

in the early innings. The neatest thing

about this modality is that it's very

hard to replicate. Generics generally

don't traffic in radioarma and because

the class involves radioisotopes it's

off limits to China. So unlike most of

biotech there's a real moat

and now the obligatory safety warning.

Axis is not for everyone. You should

consult your biotech analyst before

purchasing access. Initiating a position

may cause increased anxiety reduced

sleep through the night. Serious

sometimes drops in stock rates occur in

biotech. Immediately after investing may

experience sudden volatility due to lang

competitors. If stock declines are

experienced no fun reason. Call your

broker immediately to increase your

position. Remember serious safety

concerns have risen in other companies

local development programs. While no

safety concerns occur with any access

program date, they may in the future.

The use of many proteins delivered for

sales has not been proven. Access is no

market products and thus no referring

revenue solution for equity offerings

may occur. In the event of a secondary

offering, immediately schedule a call

with access management team to discuss

placing an order.

It's notoriously challenging to value

biotech companies because when you risk

adjust and discount back, you pretty

quickly get to zero. For earlier stage

opportunities like this, we like to

triangulate. We think Actis could be

worth 10 billion or $200 per share if

even one of their programs makes it to

market. And in this case, you have a lot

of outs.

>> I'm not familiar with why radioisotopes

are off limits to China. So in this

particular case um Actis' radioisotope

payload is actinium and actinium is

manufactured from radium 233 which was

used in our own nuclear programs in the

US in the in the 50s and 60s. So it's a

waste product from there. So actinum is

not even available in other countries

like China because they had a completely

different uh their own program was

completely different with enriched

uranium and plutonium. But the but the

the risk for a lot of biotech and China

replication came about that Amgen Sophi

Supreme Court case, didn't it? Where

they could you could make a small

because it basically said all patents

are composition of matter patents. So

you could change one amino acid get

around the patent and China's basically

done that with a lot of biologics that

are patented in the US and Europe. They

just rip them off and then you attach

the radio emmitting

>> uh radioisotope to the molecule and you

can kind of chase it. That's kind of why

a lot of biotech's been depressed. Is

that not true?

>> Yeah. So with with with radioisotopes

again because you have to you have to

have a a manufacturing supply that you

have to source locally in the US. Um

we haven't seen any competition coming

from China at all.

>> And if if they have a successful readout

though, would it not be like the case

that someone in China would say, "Hey,

let's go get some of the necessary

radioisotopes." And

>> they're they're I'm sure they can do it

for the Chinese market, but in terms of

then transfer transferring that over

here, we we haven't we haven't seen it

or kind of any wind of it at all.

>> And so then my last question, I'm sorry

for monopolizing. Why do you think the

markets discounted the value so much

since the IPO?

>> Oh gosh. Given the return in biotech

>> valuation, it's pretty classic biotech.

So it's traded flat since the IPO. uh

biotech investors are so insanely

short-term oriented that even though

we're now call it eight or nine months

from data that's still way too long and

so our expectation is the folks will

start accumulating this in the second

half in anticipation of the data coming

in the first quarter

>> Gavin you had a question

>> yeah sure so I in in in the distant past

I ran a biioharmaceutical fund uh and

you know it's a very hard job

congratulations on those numbers but I

ran that fund right after the human g

genome had been sequenced and there was

an expectation that the sequencing of

the genome was going to lead to this

explosion in therapies personalized

medicines etc etc and I don't think

broadly speaking we've made as much

progress over the last 25 years as maybe

people thought in the early 2000s and my

hypothesis is that the genome is too big

of a problem space for the human mind or

software written by humans and AI is

going to unlock a lot of kind of

revolution utionary therapies. So my

question to you, I will just admit it's

a selfish question. It is not about your

stock pitch, which is great. It's what

do you think the odds are that in the

lifetimes of everyone in this room, the

average human lifespan in a developed

country extends well past 100 to 125,

150. I would take the over on that uh in

no small part because we already have

one of the best longevity drugs out

there and folks don't even realize it in

the glip ones and the obesity drugs. So

one of the only things that's ever been

shown in act with actual data to extend

life is caloric restriction and that's

literally what all the obesity drugs do.

So I'm sure half the people in this room

are on one of them. Uh and that's just

the beginning because it's trained

people that you can inject yourself with

something and have healthy living

through pharmaceuticals. So I I think

that's only going to continue.

>> Oh, I got two questions from the

audience. First one, as the launch costs

per kilogram continue to fall, is there

a credible pathway to use space and

microgravity as a therapeutic variable

given that cancer cells appear to behave

differently in lowgravity environments?

>> That is a great question that's probably

not applicable to this.

>> Okay. And then the second question, what

would be a technological breakthrough

that could disrupt precision

radiotherapy as a result of AI at scale

to drug development and precancerous

screen?

>> Yeah, another awesome question. There's

a a small skunks work project within

Actis AI project. So with all these

biotech companies, they have their

little proprietary data sets that they

hope to leverage with various insights.

So a company like this with their many

proteins and everything else they're

trying to accomplish, they have their

own little tiny group of PhD data

scientist nerds who are seeing if they

can leverage that in a pretty decent

way. Is it so it's been really hard to

get CARTT in solid tumors? Um is it the

case that these kind of personalized

uh uh peptide based imunotherap uh

therapies are showing some efficacy in

some solid tumors and is that uh a space

that's going to expand and kind of

intersect here?

>> What's most promising that I think a lot

of folks have probably heard of is uh uh

a new drug for pancreatic cancer from a

company called Revmed was just another

targeted therapy. So for now there's not

a huge amount of progress from from

peptides. And have you looked at Droins

before? These kind of right-handed

proteins that seem to be able to

penetrate solid tumors.

>> Well, so one of the one of the neat

things about these mini proteins is

they're hopefully of the right size to

be able to deliver their payload inside

of the tumors.

>> Incredible. Oleg, thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> By the way, by the way, somebody just

yoloed into the stocks while Oleg was on

stage. It's up 6%. like the L. Don't do

that while we're all trying to buy as

well. Please come on.

>> Morning everyone. My name is Kyle

Samani. Uh thank you for being with us

at the all liquidity today. Thanks to

the besties for organizing. Today we're

going to be talking about a little known

asset, a little crypto asset called

Geonet. Uh which is building the rails

for AI. So let's jump in. Quick bit

about me. Uh I founded a firm called

Multicoin Capital about eight and a half

years ago. I stepped down a few months

ago. Um, and in my time there, I was

probably most well known for, uh,

leading all three rounds of investment

in Salana prior to Salana's network

launch, uh, in 2020. Um, I've been deep

in the crypto space for a very long

time. Uh, and I thought this would be a

very natural forum to talk about a very

interesting investment at the

intersection of crypto and AI. Uh, also

big shout out to David Sax.

Unfortunately, he's not here, but, uh,

David did seed multicoin uh, back in the

day. So, thank you, David, for believing

in me very early. All right, let's get

into geoet. So the way to understand

Geonet first is to look at GPS um

probably everyone in this room has been

in the situation on the left where

you're using your phone and your phone

is in the wrong spot facing the wrong

way. Right here you can see this guy

looks like he's facing a wall according

to his phone. Um, Geonet it

fundamentally is a new is it uses a

technology called RTK or real-time

kinematics where you can localize your

location down to about 2 centimeters for

context. GPS roughly the the precision

is about 2 m. So you're getting about

100x accuracy for very precise

geoloccation. Uh, as you can imagine any

form of kind of robotics can make use of

RTK drones being the very obvious

example. I'll touch on a few more just

in a couple minutes here.

Um, today Geonet is the world's largest

RTK network in the world and it's also

the fastest growing. Um, the three

companies you see on the left here,

Trimble, Hexagon, and Topcon, have all

been building RTK networks in some form

or fashion for call it 20 to 30 years.

Um, all of them combined have roughly

12,000 base stations deployed around the

world. GeoNet was founded in 2021. Uh,

began building out the network in 2022.

Uh, and today they are roughly twice the

size of the next three guys combined. Uh

today's geoet is live in 150 countries

around the world, more than 11,000

cities and covers roughly 80% of the

global population excluding some

sanctioned countries. Um so this thing

is really growing quickly. Uh you might

say, how did these guys build this

network so fast? Uh and the key is

really this decentralized crypto model.

Um so here we're looking at literally a

photo of a geoet base station on the

roof of someone's house. The the global

geoet network, those 22,000 nodes are

not being built and deployed by some one

that looks like AT&T or Verizon. Those

base stations are being deployed by any

random guy or hobbyist or professional

or small business owner who wants to

make some extra money. You can go on the

Geonodes website today. You can buy one

of these base stations. They're a few

hundred bucks. You put it on your roof

of your house or your small business. It

broadcasts radio waves. You make money.

Uh you actually get paid in geode

tokens, which is the really cool part

about this incentive system to bootstrap

this thing to get it off the ground. So

the Geonet network started about 4 years

ago doing this. Today it's now the

largest fastest growing in the world by

a pretty wide margin. If you want a

sense of scale, uh here we're looking at

their coverage in United States.

Obviously, every single major metro is

covered, but even if you look at most of

the rural parts of the country, you're

covering actually the vast majority of

even the rural areas. Um let's talk

about some of the customers and use

cases for this. We'll start with

agriculture first. Um the USDA actually

launched a couple years ago a program to

encourage farmers and ranchers to use uh

precise a technologies including RTK

networks. Um today actually geo the USDA

is now actually subsidizing uh many

farmers and ranchers all over the

country uh to adopt high precision a

most of which is powered by geodet.

Um getting into some specific examples

of that here we're looking at what's

called a robotic mule. Um this is made

by a company called Burrow. Uh obviously

this is transporting some grapes. You

could put anything on this. Has pretty

obvious application for bas almost any

farm or ranch you can imagine. With the

advent in computer vision, CPUs,

batteries, all the other AI stuff, these

things are growing like hotcakes, all of

them are going to be powered by Geonet

or something like it. Um, here we're

looking at John Deere. They have a new

service uh that they rolled out recently

called Global Unmanned Spraying Systems

or Gus. Um, these things drive around.

They literally spray plants with

pesticides and other things of that like

that. I did actually confirm this

morning there are wineries here in Napa

that are actually using John Deere Gus

uh uh vehicles. That was pretty cool. So

if you have some wine tonight, maybe it

was powered by by Gus, which powered by

Geonet. Um, obviously autonomous

vehicles has a pretty obvious

application for this. Um, TomTom is one

of Geonet's customers. TomTom is a

supplier to basically every every AV

program in the world, uh, excluding

maybe a couple. And today, TomTom is

using Geonet's data to update their maps

to get them more accurate and precise as

they need to cover every square inch

basically around the planet.

Um, one of my favorite use cases are

kind of the next wave of consumer

robotics, which are getting a lot of

hype these days. I think the most

obvious one are robotic lawnmowers. I

don't think anyone loves to mow their

lawn. Um, robotic lawnmowers are now

actually rolling out at pretty good

scale. They're estimated they're going

to sell 1 million robotic lawnmowers

this year, made by companies like Yarbo,

Sunseeker, and others. Um, all of those

these guys are all powered by Geonet.

Um,

next up, let's get to drones. Um the

world's largest drone manufacturer DJI

is a Geonet customer. Uh it's not in all

of their models, but it is in a lot of

their models. Uh and so obviously DJI is

sending a ton of traffic now over

Geonet. Uh in the coming uh you know

months and years as DJI wounds down in

the US and you have new a wave of

American drone manufacturers pop up. I'm

going to venture to guess that most if

not all of them are going to end up on

the GeoNet network as well. Uh the

Geonet team is based in the US has deep

roots here. What I love about Geonet is

it's a very obvious network effect

networks effect network effects

business. Um this thing looks like a

natural telecom, right? You have base

stations kind of all over the world. You

got to cover the whole planet. Um

telecoms naturally form monopolies

historically. I think the same is likely

to be true here. Today, Geonet is the

world's largest and fastest growing

network with also the lowest cost

structure by a very wide margin because

of this decentralized nature where

people just put these things on top of

their house.

In terms of where the business at, the

business just crossed about $1 million

in annualized run rate a few days ago.

Uh, and it's growing more than 3x

year-over-year. I think it's going to

probably more than triple over the next

12 months. Um, what's really cool about

GeoNet is how capital efficient it is

and how they're actually returning

capital to token holders. So today, uh,

the Geonet network is taking of that 11

million in revenue roughly, uh, excuse

me, 80% of it is being used to make open

market purchases of Geo tokens. Uh, and

this is all visible on the Salana

blockchain. they have all the addresses

are published and stuff. So, it's all

verifiable in real time. Uh that means

$8.8 million right now per year is going

into buying, you know, Geonet tokens on

the open market. Uh what's amazing is

that last 20% is they're they're

covering all their R&D costs and scaling

out now their business development team.

With a business like this, of course,

like it's a pretty small network of

customers. The guys who work at John

Deere know the guys who work at DJI, who

know the guys who work at TomTom. And

so, this thing is now growing virally

amongst this kind of core community of

of customers. Um, and as you can imagine

with customers who sign up for a service

like this, they tend to ramp up their

usage of that service over time. So once

someone starts rolling out GeoNet in the

first year, they're usually spending

about $60,000 per year. After two years

though, they're usually spending about

$170,000 per year. So the average Geonet

customer is growing their their revenue

with GeoNet about 3x in that second

year. Um, obviously then we look at

their just their customers. They've

signed up in the last two years. You can

see they 5x their customer base last

year. Those are that net new customers.

So applying some pretty simple math

here, you can see they have a very clear

path to more than 3x this year as this

thing ramps up. Just to wrap things up

summary, um Jonet is the world's largest

RTK network, growing the fastest. It has

really obvious network effects and is is

likely to be a very natural monopoly

growing 3x year over year with a bunch

of flagship customers and brands that

you all know. Obviously, we have this

huge physical AI tailwind behind us now,

robotics and all the other amazing stuff

happening. Uh and they're returning

capital to shareholders. Uh the token

does trade on the Salana blockchain. Uh

if you want to buy, it trades 247. The

ticker is geode geo d. Um so if you want

to actually get some geo tokens, I

encourage you to sign up for a crypto

wallet, a salon wallet, and you can go

ahead and buy geode tokens from there.

And with that, I think we are ready for

some Q&A.

>> Awesome. Um what's the market cap?

>> Oh, sorry. It's trading about 150

million on a fully diluted basis. If you

were to go look at any of the crypto

price websites like coin.go require

market cap. They're going to show you

something like 60 or 70 million. That's

because not all of the tokens are

floating yet, but the fully diluted

number is about 1 million.

>> Is there a corporation behind it or is

this just like a project in the Cayman

Islands in Panama with a board that

nobody knows who's on it? Tell us about

governance.

>> Uh so the Geonet team is uh US-based

corporation. There four teams in San

Francisco. The CEO's name is Mike

Horton. Uh really, really good guy. He's

been building in this kind of IoT smart,

you know, device space for a while. the

relationship between the corporate

entity and the token and which one

should we own?

>> Uh you should own the token because I

own a lot of the token uh as as you

might imagine. I don't own any of the

equity. Um the relationship is geoet the

c you know the company is facing John

Deere DJI all these companies and they

have a contractual relationship with the

Geonet Foundation to use 80% of their

revenues to buy tokens off the open

market. And that's

>> that corporation raised venture capital

or anything? Uh yes uh my prior company

Multicoin actually led around in Geonet

previously.

>> Okay Kyle I have I have many questions

from the audience so bear with me.

Question one do you like Helium as much

which is Geonet for 5G signal.

>> Uh yes I actually led multicoins

investment in Helium six or seven years

ago uh and continue to be a very big

long-term believer. They actually had

big news go out this morning. Uh but

yeah I'm a big Helium fan.

>> Question two. There's a long list of

deepin projects that have failed because

people just don't value the token

rewards. Why is this any different?

>> I mean, they're returning capital to

shareholders. This thing is, you know,

returning $8.8 million to shareholders.

It's trading at $150 million valuation

and it's going to grow 3x this year.

It's an unbelievably cheap asset. It's

just people aren't paying attention

because it's crypto bare market right

now.

>> Okay. Uh from Sam,

>> sorry, let it's a securitized interest

in the cash flows from the customers

>> effectively. Yes. It is a revenue. It is

a

>> It's a revenue share token.

>> Correct. 80%.

>> Okay. So, the more John Deere pays

Geodet the company, the more you

basically deprecate the tokens, which

should cause the token,

>> they're buying tokens to open the

market. Correct.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. From Sam, what acres value the

equity or the token? Similar to

question, how does the value acrruel

mechanisms square or not with current

securities laws or what's contemplated

in the Clarity Act?

>> Uh, yeah. Um, so the one answer to your

question is the the tokens are the ones

acrewing value because they're taking

80% and buying. The other 20% is

obviously funding operations. They have

engineers, salespeople, all that stuff.

Um, so that's all there and being

funded. In terms of securities laws, uh,

the Clarity Act, uh, passing is

certainly very good for Geonet. Uh, I'm

not a lawyer, so I'm not going to tell

you that, you know, it it passes the

bars set in the Clarity Act, but I can

tell you I'm an optimist and I've been

very involved in the Clarity Act, uh,

and I'm not too worried about it.

>> Okay. Can I can I ask about the business

just real quick? So John Deere, I know

this space somewhat well. I used to

manage a company called Precision

Planting in Agriculture and um there was

John Deere makes their own RTK systems.

So when you like run a a piece of

equipment that relies on RTK, you're

buying in the construction industry,

Topcon or Leica or Trimble or John Deere

and you install the RTK base stations

and you run your equipment. Why would

John Deere and others want to rely on

this system as a different like why is

it better than like the systems that

they're already using? It wasn't quite

clear to me.

>> I mean capex versus opex, right? Like

right these networks are all over the

world now. They're running at very low

cost. GeoNet is is probably a third to

half sorry a third to a quarter the

price um than buying up your own capex

and doing it. And it's just available

everywhere. So now it just reduces the

sales cycle time for John Deere when

they just say buy the tractor. It's

good.

>> There's another big push right now for

microats to be an alternative to GPS in

a way that they can actually provide

subcm resolution effectively replacing

both GPS and RTK using a a mesh network

from SpaceX launched or actually SpaceX.

I don't know if SpaceX has looked at

doing this, but um I know that there is

a very wellunded company that is trying

to put up microats to basically replace

GPS and RTK. Doesn't that ultimately

kind of wash out the need to have all

these earth-based base stations?

>> I there's no chance they can compete on

cost because just sending things to

space with satellites that's so I mean

these geoet uh base stations are a few

hundred bucks. Like you're just not

going to compete on cost with with

geoet.

>> Do you think that this is a viable

replacement at scale and saturation for

GPS itself?

>> No. GPS is definitely very different. Uh

and the SLA is different.

>> You've got to you've got to have

ubiquity for

>> Yeah. for GPS um for GPS alternative

which is why you have to have the

satellites everywhere. You got to have

enough but if you get enough satellites

you can actually get to RTK precision

and you don't need to have the big

expensive GPS.

>> You'd have a hybrid situation where you

have a bunch of GEO and LEO plus a bunch

of base stations all over the place.

That hybrid situation probably

>> you could actually the Leo the LEO alone

can replace all of the the geo stuff.

That's the goal. And then um if you get

enough of them which SpaceX unlocks.

Yeah.

>> And um Kyle, what what about like other

tokens when you think about other

compute tasks like work to be done for

example? There's a bunch of tokens that

have emerged in distributed training.

How did you hone in on this and exclude

the others?

>> I mean, not meaning prefer this over

that.

>> I mean, I met the GeoNet founder years

ago. He pitched us and I've gotten to

know him and followed it. The

distributed training stuff, there's a

whole bunch of people trying it. I I'm

pretty skeptical. I don't think any of

it's going to work. Um the distributed

inference stuff is is possible although

it has not worked as well as we would

have hoped. I did put some money behind

that a few years ago. It's it's working

but not not A+. Um one last thing

actually David on on your prior question

I want to highlight is also energy use.

Going to space just consumes way more

energy than going to a base station

that's you know on the ground. Um and so

yeah for a tractor maybe that doesn't

matter but for a drone or for any other

battery sensitive application ground is

always going to be uh the preferred

solution.

>> Super interesting. Well done. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

>> All right, guys.

>> Before we vote, Timoth, give your

feedback.

>> Here's what I like. I I I apply the Stan

Ducken Miller school of invest

investigate. I really believe in it.

>> Yes.

>> Um if you don't have any skin in the

game, you don't care. And this is the

kind of stuff that I love. I love

hearing ideas like this.

>> I love all four. My my difference is in

sizing. So, you know, there's there's

certain asymmetric alpha that each one

of these exhibits and then there's very

different downside risk for each of

them.

>> Uh, and then there's also liquidity

issues. So, for example, like I love

Kyle's idea. The problem is I I could

not get enough working for me where so

you I don't even think I could get a

million dollars in today. It would to

scale in it would move the market. Um,

so I would have to I'd have to probably

I'd be like 10 20 30,000 and then maybe

start to buy into it. talent. I think

they could absorb tens of millions and

people wouldn't bite an eyelash. Um

the biotech company the issue there is

that I think that there is as you said

Freberg this discontinuous

illi liquidity zero risk but then

there's the 10x upside. So there's just

like huge

>> Lily will bid for it

>> and then MGM I think is just so I think

MGM and Talon are the ones you could

have huge sizing in

>> and then the other ones I think you have

a piece because they're like lottery

tickets. I think your point on MGM.

>> Okay. Wait, hold on. Let me just review.

So, company number one

was MGM

>> and that was

>> Resorts. Okay.

>> Company number two,

>> Talon.

>> Talon Energy.

>> Company number three,

>> Actis

>> Therapeutics. Yeah.

>> And then

>> Geodet.

>> Geodet. Not company, but I guess token.

>> Yeah.

>> Company number four, Geodet.

>> And you're buying the token, not the

company. Do you think the um maybe for

you too, Gavin, like the

>> Gavin, you rank them.

>> Well, no, even before you rank, just

tell us what you think of the format and

then assess the companies. We'll do

ranking at the end. We're going to do 4

32. We're going to do 4 3 2 1 on stage,

but give me your general ideas about the

pitches, what you liked, what you did.

>> I thought the pitches were great. Um I

thought the format was amazing. I would

for sure expand it next year. There are

platforms that you guys could have a all

all-in basket or ETF that people could

trade in. So like maybe that's

something.

>> Will you do it next year?

>> Will I pitch next year?

>> Yeah.

>> Jake, I'll do anything. He's locked.

He's locked.

>> Actually, here's what I would ask Gavin

to put you on the spot. Next year I

would we I think we would all learn and

benefit if you would do

>> um silicon and memory super cycle.

>> Sure. Would you be willing to do that

for us?

>> I'll do it.

>> Sign me up.

>> Perfect. Great. Sign me up. Oh, thank

you. So, keep going.

>> Well, no. As far as the pitches, I do

think um I think it's important to

disagregate like what was a really great

entertaining pitch versus what I think

is is a really good riskreward. Um I

thought Oleg and Kyle did a great job

with the pitches, but I'm I'm not a

healthcare investor, nor am I a crypto

investor. I thoroughly enjoyed the

presentations. I actually thought GET

was very interesting. Um I'm happy to

learn from Oleg that I might lift well

into my 100s. That was good news for me

and everybody in the room. I enjoyed all

the um the military um terminology and

analogies.

>> Yeah, that was really great. Huh.

>> That was great.

>> Really great.

>> I do think um from a pure riskreward

perspective, I thought MGM was the best.

um your downside is really capped

because of the Barry Diller bid and then

you have uh Japan and Dubai as I think

very valuable future sources of value.

Uh and and I do think talent is also a

very compelling risk. I just think

everything in AI is going to need to

grapple with increasing regulatory risk

which we talked about last time um that

that I was on the pod with you guys and

I don't know how to dimensionalize that

and um you know I've been

>> like the big negative externality for

talent is nothing to do with talent.

>> Nothing to do with talent.

>> It's like something over the top from

the US government caps prices something

something.

>> Yeah. You have nationalizes the lab.

>> You have a change in administration. You

have a change in Congress. There's laws

that are passed that I think it

terrestrial computes the utility supply

demand. But I actually think outside of

that, Talon was super compelling. And

>> so you got MGM, you got Talent. Now the

other two.

>> I I I I thought they were both great

pitches. I can I tie them for third just

>> Well, no, don't even give the score.

just any feedback on those two ideas or

those are just a little bit lottery

ticket for you or

>> No, I thought Actis was was very

compelling. They're trying to trying to

do something different as Oleg said if

you ever get a biotech company that be

can become a platform and they have a

mechanism whether it's of drugging

whether it's targeting or if you have

something that is broadly applicable

that is when you can get these really

really big hundred billion dollar plus

outcomes in biotech which are rare so I

thought that part of um activis was

super compelling

>> and um

>> you don't play crypto

>> I don't play crypto, but I thought the

entire go Geonet discussion was

fascinating and I'm happy.

>> Is there anything that would get you off

the bench and make you jump into the

crypto game or it's just you're why are

you not playing the crypto game?

>> I feel about crypto exactly the way I do

about snowboarding. Okay. I'm I'm not a

very good athlete. I've spent a lifetime

learning how to ski and I'm okay. Um,

and just the idea of getting on a

snowboard, having, you know, thousands

of hours of ski instruction,

>> you don't want the pain for the game.

>> Yes. And I have 25 years of lessons,

learnings, pain, scars from from

investing in equities and public

securities and just crypto. It's a

little bit like snowboarding for me, but

like, you know, everybody who wants to

snowboard, that's great.

>> Everybody wants to do crypto, that's

great. Just please don't go sideways

down the mountain and ruin the powder.

David,

>> I think your assessment of MGM Talon,

>> I think I think MGM uh I look at the

kind of return upside, the downside and

the timeline. MGM's like probably a 3x.

I think it's also missing this point

that I've heard a lot about on you can

actually upgrade the monetization on

these Vegas properties. We were talking

to a friend of ours in Vegas. They're

they're making a million bucks a day in

incremental ibita every day that they

have a show at the sphere um at the uh

at the Venetian hotel which is an

unbelievable statistic which tells you

that when you have the entertainment

draw the gambling revenue just flies

>> flies

>> and so Barry Diller I have heard

separately has been spending a lot of

time on trying to reinvent the

entertainment at these properties and

thinks he has an idea on how to do it

which will cause the gambling revenue to

fly. So, I think even if you discount

the upside on these new locations,

there's probably a lot of work to be

done. And I do like the floor on the bid

and then you got call it 3x in 2 years

even if this bid goes nowhere and they

keep the thing running and they're like

we're going to reject the bid and keep

running independently. Talon is maybe 3x

upside, 5x upside, but it's eight years

out. And I think one of the other

challenges with Talon that I would kind

of use as a valuation metric is I think

it's more interest rate sensitive than

MGM is um because the power purchase

agreements really are where a lot of the

revenue comes from. So you're going to

get a discount rate that's a multip

that's a function of where interest

rates are sitting. So I think if

interest rates shoot up which some might

argue there's there's risk there you

actually get margin compression from

that 15x outlook that he has for Talon.

So that would be my kind of downside

scenario on Talon. um in the in the time

ahead and Actis I do worry because I'm

an investor in a company that's got a D

protein conjugate that shows really

strong efficacy in getting solid tumors.

I think that there are new modalities

for therapeutics for solid tumors that

are being discussed that that may kind

of put this at risk. I think the China

risk is legit because I've seen it

across the board in biotech. Everything

gets ripped off and people go to China,

but they could have a hit and Lily could

bid on it in 6 months if they actually

get a good readout. So there's certainly

upside, but the downside's probably 50

75% if they get a bad readout or China

or some new modality comes out. So I

think the ranking is probably MGM Talon

Actis and then the for me the geodet

piece uh I I just think the space thing

is is likely the path. It's going to

replace all RTK and all GPS in the next

decade. Um it's an inevitable piggyback

on systems that are already going up.

>> All right, great. So I think I've got

everybody. Uh for me, I put them into

two buckets. Um I think uh AKTS and GOD

those are like lottery tickets could be

crazy returns but you know there's a

there's a big probability of a zero

there if they don't you know uh actually

work and then MGM and Talon obviously

got the downside protection and those

feel like um people will always gamble

and leave the lights on. So I kind of

like both of those. I put 200k into each

in real time.

>> Gamble and leave the lights. Uh, so

that's just like my I don't have a

public vehicle.

>> Did you actually buy?

>> I'm just day trading.

>> I I bought half of his action

and I don't have a Robin Hood account. I

have to call my office. So I was like

just I'll take

>> you lose, buddy.

>> I'll take half your I didn't see you

with your thumbs.

>> I'm up 7% across the portfolio. So I

don't think I can include you here.

>> Steps to buy.

>> I did. I I waited the three in the order

I said on my So anyway, I I'll just give

mine really quick. I I will go MGM,

Talon, uh, G, AKTS.

>> Gavin's only gonna make trillion.

>> Let's bring the Let's bring our four

pictures out.

>> We have $1,000.

Please get the

>> two men hugging statue. Wait, wait, no.

Before you announce it, I need the

extremely alpha male heterosexual

trophy. The all-in heterosexual alpha

male trophy, please. And I need our four

pitchers to come on stage. It makes it

more exciting. It's like makes it

uncomfortable when like they show the

five people for best actor.

>> Yeah.

>> Yes.

>> You put those on the table.

>> But wait, where's my award doing? The

award. You guys have the award.

>> Please bring me the extremely

heterosexual alpha male award.

>> You'll see why when I show you the

award. Pass me this.

>> Over a little more.

>> All right.

>> Bring me that award. Let me show you how

we 3D modeled this.

>> No one wants to see this.

>> Look at this. This is two men

>> uncomfortably hugging. And the way we

did this, it's the best. Come here,

Freeberg. I'll show you. I'm not doing

it with you.

>> Come on, Freeberg.

>> You do it tomorrow.

>> Free. Okay, fine. He's extremely

comfortable.

>> That's David and I.

>> It's David and you. But let's show them

how we modeled this. We just did a long

>> This is uncomfortable. And we hold it

for five extra seconds.

>> At 2 minutes, you get the release of

oxytocin. There it is.

>> Okay. So, gentlemen, this is it. Do you

guys have the results? Go ahead.

Audience award.

>> Audience award.

>> So,

based on 150 votes from the audience,

uh, do I just go four to one?

>> Four to one.

>> Four to one is more exciting.

>> Okay. Fourth place, uh, with 5% of the

vote was Kyle Sani.

>> Okay. Well done on the board.

>> A very close

second place.

>> No, third. Third.

>> Third place with 21% of the vote. Oleg

rock

>> leg. Oh boy, we're closing in here,

guys. Very dramatic.

>> And with 50 50%

who's number two.

>> I'm going to go to you. No, you say

number one now.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> No. Okay. Well, sorry. Yeah, you're

right. With 24% of the vote

>> in second place,

>> Aaron Cowan for MGM. NUMBER ONE WITH 50%

of the vote. Dan Drafus.

>> Wow. Unbelievable. Give it up. Nicely

done. Now the bestie though.

>> Wait, hold on before we do the bestie.

How do you feel right now having won

this? Pass him the award. You guys look

so uncomfortable.

>> You guys are really It's very

>> But pass him his award for a second and

let him hold it.

>> Give it academy award.

>> Thank everybody how you got to this

place.

>> Say a few words. I got my award. I got

my tequila.

>> Thank you.

>> There you go. All right. Well done.

>> Okay. Now Okay.

>> That's the award. 4 3 2 1. It's uh

relatively similar here. Uh fourth place

was Kyle Simmani. Okay.

>> Third place was Oleg.

>> Second place Dan Drafus. First place

Aaron Cowen. Big upset. Flip the

audience vote.

>> There you go.

>> All right. So MGM wins.

>> All right.

>> Thanks guys.

>> This was amazing.

>> All right. Thank you all for

participating.

>> Thank you very much.

>> Thank you so much for coming and we'll

see you next

I'm going all in.