the most game-changing work that I've

ever done is

Marie launched a multi-million dollar

star of the award-winning marietv an

international best-selling author

Marie

track your time meticulously for seven

days you will be shocked at how much

time flitters away that don't create a

ton of value for you and you'll get an

idea of like I would have never thought

of that if your face was stuck in

Netflix or Tick Tock for you know the

seven hours a day that you're not

working your book is full of solutions

to the most important challenges what

are you struggling with

is ADHD so I can have a very overactive

brain I found myself over performing and

over working wanting to control

everything so I could have a sense of

safety that's where the real cost came

in for me I started dreading waking up

in the morning like I wish I could just

disappear like wow yeah see these were

scary thoughts and it almost destroyed

my relationship

in the book you took about these three

rules that underpin this figure outable

mindset yes and it's just helped me in

every different facet my relationships

my mental health my business what are

those so rule number one is that

rule number two

rule number three

that's super important Point number

three it's the one we don't talk about

you have to be willing to just

before this conversation starts I've got

a favor to ask from you 74 of people

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podcast please hit the Subscribe button

and turn notifications on without

further Ado I'm Stephen Butler and this

is the Diary of a CEO I hope nobody's

listening but if you are then please

keep this yourself

[Music]

Murray

[Music]

when I was reading your book you talk

about how

experience is one of the things that

ends up shaping the beliefs we have in

the world

what were the experiences that you had

at the very earliest of Ages that end up

shaping the beliefs you've had about the

world

one of the biggest ones was actually a

memory I had when I was about seven or

eight years old

so my parents had just gotten a divorce

and I remember being in the kitchen in

my house in New Jersey with my mom and

I'm looking at her and she has one of

the old school phones with the cord like

wrapped around her hand and it was

wrapped around so tight that her hand

was kind of turning white because she

was cutting off the circulation

and she was on the phone with her mother

who was in Florida at the time and she

was crying unconsolably

and I'm watching my mom with tears

running down her face and her everything

looked drawn and she was saying

I have nothing I have nothing do you

understand I have nothing I don't know

what I'm going to do and so you know

there's tears coming down and I'm just

Frozen in fear

he hangs up the phone and she bends down

and I just see like her makeup running

down her face and the tears running down

her face and she puts her hands on my

shoulders and she puts her face right

next to mine up to my nose and she

shakes me

and she says do you see what I'm going

through right now

I have nothing do not be stupid like I

was don't ever let a man don't ever let

anyone control your money I need you to

grow up I need you to be your own woman

I need you to be independent don't be

stupid like me

and Stephen I was just like you know as

a seven or eight year old like in shock

of course I love my dad my dad's an

amazing man and I love my mom and that

experience like in a few seconds I made

all of these equations in my mind and I

made all these decisions and I made all

these promises to myself and I'll tell

you what those were

one of the decisions was that

the lack of having enough money equaled

the loss of love

the destruction of family and so much

pain and suffering like seeing my mom in

pain knowing my dad wasn't there knowing

my family using unit wasn't okay and I

just everything felt unsafe and I made

this promise in this decision I said

okay when I grow up

I'm gonna somehow make so much money

that I am going to take care of the

people I love and if anyone around me

needs money to to handle the pain I'm

going to be able to take care of them

now looking back I'm in my 40s now I can

see how much that fear and how much that

desire to have love be healed has driven

almost every part of my career

to have love be healed yes what do you

mean by that

because I had this notion that because

there wasn't enough money that

my parents love was broken

when we are driven by insecurities

it can be it can get a little bit out of

hand yeah you know when something like

that like money becomes your North Star

um

it almost means that the other stars are

dimmed the other

things that

form our very human needs what was the

cost then of prioritizing that of having

money as a motivator in some ways it was

wonderful because it was there was a

rooting in solid work ethic that was

fabulous and at the same time a

self-punishment

I'm never doing enough

it's not quite enough this is not good

enough it can be better I can be better

and you know for many years especially

early in my career I didn't really have

an off button you know it was working

seven days a week morning until night

um you know missing out on whether it

was friends getting married or this one

or that one and some of that you know

it's complicated it's multi-layered

right A lot of times if friends were

going on let's say a bachelorette party

to Vegas or whatever I legitimately

didn't have the money to go and I found

myself working all the time just to kind

of climb out of debt in the early days

of my business for example so there's a

little bit of give and take there you

know there's the cost and I think

eventually as I started to get into my

40s I started recognizing just this

pattern of over performance of overdoing

of over pushing sometimes I would say to

my partner Josh we've been together for

like 20 years and I would say God you

know I really want to take a break right

now but I've got X Y and Z to do and I

said I don't I just I feel so lazy if I

take a break I can't take a break like

there's so much and he's like Marie you

were one of the most productive non-lazy

people I have ever met in my life no

matter how many times he said that to me

Stephen

for so long I didn't believe him

I was like he's lying he he's not as

productive as I am he has lower

standards than I do which is all not

true

um and it was uh it was tough it was it

was just I wasn't very kind to me

how do you how do you balance that

because on one end you know the feeling

of being not satisfied yeah is

motivating absolutely it means that

you're always striving you're pushing

people you're you know there's always

more work to be done you're always at

the one percent in your pro in your

projects but on the other hand

um it's also for many a deferral of

their happiness and contentment off into

the future somewhere that will keep

moving as they move yeah off into the

distance yep how where is The Sweet Spot

between knowing there's more work to be

done but also being content at the

moment yes I love this a I think for me

it is this ever evolving daily practice

that I never quite get right but I'm

always playing with

these days it's about recognizing that

you know what I have created so much I'm

so proud of what I have and I'm a human

that is entrepreneurial and

multi-passionate and creative so there's

all these things it's the joy of going

like oh my goodness I'm so grateful for

what I have and here are the things that

I am so excited to create and for me it

becomes this really beautiful Dynamic

sense of being where I am fully joyful

and grateful for exactly what's

happening and super excited for what I'm

creating next so in the past it was like

oh well this isn't good enough I'm not

good enough I don't have you know it was

coming from a place of lack where these

days I'm coming from a place of

contentment and then an additional place

of curiosity and excitement about what's

unfolding next does that make sense yeah

of course it does yeah how many people

do you think you've coached over the

last

oh my goodness I think that would depend

on your definition of coached so we've

we've had over 100 million people

interact with our our videos and given

advice you've heard your advice or your

words

was there a moment when you realized

that this is what you wanted to do with

your life yes because I know you went to

Wall Street longer than you oh my

goodness I failed at so many jobs so

um I remember when I was on Wall Street

on the New York Stock Exchange I was

really excited about it because it was

this place where there was tremendous

potential for income right and I was

around people that were making millions

of dollars a year which is so far beyond

anything I could have imagined in my

life at that time and I was I kept

hearing this little voice inside Stephen

I was like this isn't who you are this

isn't what you're meant to do this isn't

who you're supposed to be and that

little voice kept getting louder and

louder but the little voice didn't tell

me what else I was supposed to do and

one day I was crying my eyes out because

I felt like such a failure my parents

had busted their buns to help me get

through college first in my family to go

to school and I knew that I was so lucky

to have that job just any job right

Healthcare a steady paycheck and here I

was miserable I wanted to quit so bad

and I just felt trapped because I didn't

want to bring shame upon my family I

felt like a total failure and the little

voice then said call your dad so I took

out my flip phone at the time which

gives you an idea it was like the lay

late 90s and I was crying to my dad and

I said Dad I'm so sorry like you and Mom

worked so hard to get me through school

and and I just I can't stand this job I

want to quit and he broke in all my

sniffly snotty crying and he's like Ray

he's like calm down he's like if this

job is getting you this sick and you

hate it you have to quit I said but Dad

I don't know what I'm supposed to do

like this isn't like me and he said look

you're going to work for the next 40 or

50 years of your life you have got to

find something you love and if this job

isn't it then start bartending do

whatever you need to do again but don't

stop looking until you find something

that you really really want to go to do

every single day

so the only things I knew about myself

were that I loved business but I was

also highly creative and the only com

combination that felt like it could work

in an industry was magazine publishing

at the time that was still a thing and I

went to a temp agency I got a job at

Gourmet magazine but about six months

into that job which was interesting I

started hearing that same voice against

Stephen I was like Ugh this isn't who

you are this isn't what you're supposed

to do this isn't what you're supposed to

be so I'm on the internet one day at

work probably when I shouldn't have been

and I stumbled upon this new profession

at the time called coaching

when I read this article it was as

though something in my soul lit up like

a Christmas tree it was like the clouds

parted and little angels came out and I

was like oh like this is what you're

supposed to do and I said I'm gonna do

this life coaching business and I went

back to bartending and waiting tables

and just devoted myself to figuring out

how to build a business during the day

okay so let's go back through so the

voice inside yes what is that voice

to me I believe it is my intuition

it is my when I say higher self I

believe the part of me that is timeless

that's probably been here before and

that will be here Beyond this particular

incarnation

and if anyone out there I certainly do

believes in a higher power that there

are other levels of intelligence that

are actually supportive of us that's who

I think that voice is does everyone have

that voice I absolutely believe so

that's my personal belief everyone has

that voice they may not have been

trained

to articulate and understand and discern

it but I believe it's there what does it

feel and sound like

soft spoken

it feels as though you're having an

inner nudge towards something that may

not make sense to the outside world it

may be counter to all of the social

conditioning the familial conditioning

that you've been brought up with but it

is gentle it is encouraging and it is

persistent I thought you were going to

say persistent that's the last word I

was like because I I can I can relate

um

why is it that and it's funny because I

also agree that everyone has that voice

um because when I have conversations

with people they will often tell me who

they are and what they do yeah and then

this the second thing is they'll like

whip out their phone and be like and

I've got this art Instagram account and

I'm like all the other voices like

infiltrated the the Asylum and it's like

taking over a little bit like I love

doing I work in the city I work in

finance but check out my art over here

it's kind of like the whisper that yes

I'm like that is the voice that's the

thing inside you that's been

persistently working away at you it made

you at 2AM launched that Instagram

account

um but most people because of the

there's another voice at play which is

the external voice Society your mother

your parents your immigrant parents

telling you what work is Instagram

telling you what you should and

shouldn't be an R

um that other voice that external Voice

is so much stronger yeah it's so much

stronger and it's everywhere it's in all

of our friends it's in our parents it's

up down left right yes how does one go

about

taking the perceived quote-unquote risk

of tuning into the that voice that's

just Whispering yes oh I love this

question and I also love talking about

this because I think it is one of the

most powerful sources of wisdom that we

all have but there are so many things

that we can talk about I want to talk

about a few one is if you start to pay

attention to the small things so I'll

give you an example

I've actually been practicing this is

going to sound extremely superficial but

stick with me intuitive shopping I don't

like to own a lot of things I'm just not

a person who likes a lot of clutter and

I just don't want to have a bunch of

crap lying around and so I realize that

sometimes I'm like oh well so and so if

I try on an outfit or whatever I'm like

oh I think this looks pretty good and

I've been paying attention to like nope

you're never gonna wear it it sounds so

silly but when I quiet down and I listen

I'm like okay I have this little

guidance for these little moments of my

day on the best path to take I want

people to pay attention to the small

moments what you should order on a menu

whether or not you should make a move

with your partner if people actually

look back in time and start to look in

their past you'll see places where you

heard that little voice and you overrode

it and you got yourself into trouble

do you know those times of course so

everyone has usually if you start to

filter through your mind it could have

been a financial decision it could have

been a business decision it could have

been about someone to hire it could have

about saying yes to a job a relationship

but there were times when something in

you was piping up and your ego or an

external voice was like no you got to go

for this this is a great deal this is

going to get you X Y and Z you should

say yes to this and you overwrote that

little voice and it cost you big time so

I think to answer the question how do

people start to kind of hone into that

discernment I think look in your past to

where you ignored it before and you'll

have examples of like oh that's what it

sounds like that's what it feels like

that's one and then I think number two

this works for me I'm someone who has

ADHD so I can have a very overactive

brain I need to meditate and I need to

exercise those are two things that help

me dial down the noise so much of the

static and create enough space for that

inner voice to not only feel like for me

to be able to detect it more but for it

to speak louder and for me to hear it

one of the things that sometimes

encourages us or

wins in US overriding The Voice

that small Whispering inside you telling

you who you are what you should be doing

where you should be what you're capable

of is our own like fear insecurities and

Trauma so like I can think of multiple

times where I've made bad decisions

because I've been LED too much by my

insecurities you know whether it's money

decisions whether it's love decisions

typically anything that's like psycho

psychological in its root so money food

these kinds of things so you might know

and even in the context of a

professional career

having the upbringing that you've had

where you made that Association super

early that money results in a loss of

Love or the lack of money results in a

loss of Love or a loss of control or

whatever that can orientate you to go to

Wall Street yes as opposed to listening

to The Voice yep how much do we have to

like heal in order to to kind of turn up

the volume of that voice inside and to

try and turn down the external voice you

know it's a great question I think we're

all on a healing Journey constantly

because I think all of us you know we've

kind of collected little hurts

disappointments

um things from our childhood things from

our adult experiences that kind of get

lodged in there I don't necessarily know

that intuition

requires like hearing your intuition

requires you to heal anything because I

think that voice is always trying to

talk to you and I think one of the best

ways to understand it's your intuition

and not fear and we should maybe talk

about that a little bit that's a I can

give people a very simple exercise about

how to know is this my intuition

speaking up saying no you know like you

shouldn't go in this direction or is

this just fear because I want to stay

safe and I don't want to put my ass on

the line

here's how I tell it so let's say I'm

thinking about saying yes to a

particular opportunity it could be a

business deal it could be you know

speaking at a particular event anything

like that

When I close my eyes and just feel in my

body and say does the idea of saying yes

to this make me feel expansive or

contracted and Stephen when I ask that

question in a nanosecond I say okay does

saying yes to the speaking engagement

feel expansive or contracted I guarantee

in your body you feel something it is so

subtle but either there is a lightness

there is like your body starts to expand

like this you lean forward there could

be a little bit of Joy even if you're

scared shitless even if saying yes to

this is like oh my goodness it's the

biggest opportunity ever or your ego

wants to say yes but inside there's a

part of you that says no it closes down

you feel heavy you feel a sense of dread

that's your intuition trying to lead you

in the right direction question yes do

you ever do things that are contractive

in feeling oh my gosh not as much

anymore but I did it so often earlier on

my journey because I was so desperate

for approval people and I was so

desperate to be successful and I had

these ideas if I partner with this

person if I say yes to this particular

activity if I show up here then I'm

gonna have some kind of more stature

right or I'm gonna be noticed more so

these days it happens much less

frequently and I feel like that just

comes from having skinned my knees

enough and tortured myself enough and

created enough pain and Chaos that I'm

like I don't need to do that anymore

yeah because a lot of the time the

reason I asked that particular question

is a lot of time a lot of the time

there's a short term

carrot I think that's the analogy for

yes it's a short-term carrot which goes

listen we'll give you this if you come

and do this thing you don't know if I

can do it but the short-term carrot can

be tempting sometimes the long-term

effects of taking a short-term carrot

are dangerous the other question I had

which was thinking about this expansive

contractive thing is there has been

times where something has made me feel

contractive yep but when then I've gone

and done it

oh my God you're so glad that you did so

glad I did it I'm curious when you felt

contracted and then you overrode that

can you tell me more about whether it

was the voice like what made you

override that feeling

um money interesting you're going to get

paid loads of money to go and do this

thing I think oh [ __ ] I don't want to

travel yeah I don't want to go there and

do it but then you go there and you have

a great conversation for example if I'm

speaking somewhere sure and I and it

lights me up that's what lights me up

yes so I walk away from it feeling

unbelievable thanks I'm so happy I did

that that's really you know it's changed

my mood It's Made Me connect with people

I'm so happy I did that yeah

um but ahead of time you know it's funny

because it's the story I'm telling

myself ahead of time that's making me

feel contractive it's I'm telling myself

about travel about time Wasted by having

to go to another country or city or

place I'm thinking about all the time

wasted okay and the money for me Isn't a

real big motivator but it almost for me

it's like it's still hard to turn down a

big number sure because the money

doesn't come to me it supports the team

it supports this podcast it supports our

show we have we this in my personal team

we have 25 20 people now yeah so a lot

of livelihoods I think of it as a

response ability yes so let's play here

for a moment because I think that's so

interesting what you shared a lot of

what you felt dread about was thoughts I

wonder and this would be fun maybe you

can text me and let me know in the

future I'm curious more of a body

sensation right right so like you I can

be like oh boy got some travel coming up

and my thoughts can generate a sense of

tiredness let's say but what I'm when

I'm talking about expansive and

contracted I'm actually talking more

about a physical sensation in your body

almost like either in your solar plexus

or in your gut so it's less of a thought

generated feeling and more of a visceral

full body notion does that distinction

yeah yeah just I'm I'm super curious

because I agree with what you've said in

terms of there's been times where I'm

like oh I don't know about this and I

was so and I got over myself I was like

you know what there's X Y and Z people I

like them there I'm gonna go see them

and I was so happy that that I wasn't a

stick in the mud and stayed home so I

had that experience too I'm

I want to dive a little deeper with you

on that body sensation because in my

experience that's usually where the

intuitive feeling kind of really lives

less thought generated more body more

body truth the body holds the school

yeah yeah so let's go back through then

so we're talking about this journey that

led you to leave the publishing industry

yes and decide to go back to being a

waitress but also pursuing the career of

being a coach yes a couple of key things

there that are that we kind of glossed

over that are I know people are sat at

home thinking they're in jobs they hate

they're in situations they hate they

hear the voice they get it

the next part I guess there's two parts

there the next part is

how do I how do I

tune into the voice and and like how do

I

um

you were lucky in the sense that you

read that article yes I say lucky but

maybe that's not the best use of words

you have you read that article that came

to you at that time that's right maybe

the universe sent it to you the

Journey's out right

if I know I'm in the wrong place and the

voice is saying [ __ ] Steve this magazine

publishing is not right yeah but I don't

know where the right place is how does

one go about finding that right place

okay I love this question so here's a

mantra and I live my life by Montrose

they help keep me on track and here's

one that really works Clarity comes from

engagement not thought Clarity comes

from engagement not thought what does

that mean in this context it means that

every single person listening right now

let's say they have a job and they're

like I am done with this job but I don't

know what else I should be doing there's

something in them that has an interest

it could be an interest in art it could

be an interest in baking it could be an

interest in music find a way to go take

action in that direction no matter what

it is it could be interning for someone

working for them for free picking up a

book taking a class finding some way to

get involved in that area will give you

not only Insight but it'll start to open

up creative channels you'll start to

meet people you'll start are to say oh

this is great as a hobby but I would

never want to do this as a career I

think that all of the Insight Clarity

comes from engagement not thought you're

not going to figure it out sitting on

your couch you're not going to figure it

out necessarily scrolling on Instagram

or your phone you're gonna figure it out

by getting into some kind of action and

giving yourself permission to experiment

right giving yourself permission to try

things and it might not work and that's

okay but you're going to learn something

you're going to discover something

you're going to have a conversation

you'll stumble upon your own article

where your own body lights up like a

Christmas tree and you'll be like oh my

goodness this is the thing but it's not

going to come if you sit at your desk

every day know that your work isn't

right but you don't do anything active

to actually go find out what is but you

know I'm busy I've got four kids I've

got a job I just don't have the time

right oh that's uh not having the time

is probably one of the biggest excuses

that we can all use from time to time

and it really is an excuse because all

of us know when it's important enough we

make the time if not we make an excuse

we know this if you're spending any

amount of time on Instagram or tick tock

on social if you listen to podcasts if

you do anything outside of your actual

job and just feeding yourself and doing

what you knew what you need to do to

stay alive you have time you really do

you have to do some basic math I would

recommend we talk about this in the book

is track your time meticulously for

seven days you will be shocked at how

much time flitters away doing things

that don't really create a ton of value

for you that don't give you an

opportunity to even have open time where

you're not looking you're not consuming

anything where you're not having other

people's thoughts ideas or agendas

inject into your head where you're just

giving yourself time to walk around the

outside and take a walk in the block and

in nature and actually let your mind

think or wonder or rest or exercise or

do any of these other things that can

open creative channels where you'll get

a download and you'll get an idea of

like oh my God I would have never

thought of that if your face was stuck

in Netflix or Hulu or Tick Tock for you

know the seven hours a day that you're

not working fine I'm quitting my job I'm

quitting quitting is difficult yeah

what's scary why is it so how do we

become

better quitters I was on stage this

morning I sat on stage and I said it all

the time so it's like I sound like a

broken record but you know we glamorized

starting it's like oh my God they

started this thing but quitting is the

equally important thing you have to do

before you start yes and so quitting is

just as much of a skill as starting

anything how do I become a better

quitter I look at your journey continue

quitting yeah throughout and it's funny

because that almost sounds like an

insult doesn't it no yeah but it does on

the surface because quitting is for

losers yes well if you believe that

that's the that's the slogan right but

if you hadn't quit imagine the the

misery I would have been so miserable

and so I think there's a couple of

things to it one I think understanding

your risk averseness as a human being is

very important and let me tell you what

that means for me financially speaking

I'm fairly risk averse so because of my

upbringing because of this kind of

Perpetual Financial scarcity that there

was I'm not the kind of person who's

just going to burn the ships behind me

and say okay I'm quitting my job you

know at the magazines and let me just

start this coaching business and figure

it out it was like no I went back to

bartending and waiting tables pretty

much seven days a week because that's

what it took to keep the roof over my

head and eating food while I figured out

this life coaching business so I would

say for anyone listening right now if

you're thinking about quitting take a

look inside what's your risk averseness

you know there's a study that was done

in the United States they tracked about

14 000 entrepreneurs and they found that

those who kept their day job as they

started their business were 33 percent

less likely to fail

and so I think for anyone listening it's

like okay well you may quit this job but

is there any other circumstance whether

you take another type of job you go

part-time like what is going to be the

kind of financial Runway or situation

that you need to give yourself an

ability to see if this business could

work if starting a business is what you

want to do

and and so after you quit

um seven years

doing side work yes and growing and

figuring out the business

when you quit what was your aspirations

for your coaching business if I'd ask

you on that day I'm going to say you

know how long ago was that so that was

two thousand like 2000 2001. right so

that's 20 odd years ago if I'd asked you

on that day

where are you going to end up oh my

goodness I had no freaking clue I at

that moment I was just entrenched in my

coach training and I wanted to be a

great coach so badly meaning I didn't

really have a huge Vision because

everything was so new and I think there

was so much uncertainty and quite

frankly as a 23 24 year old I didn't

really have the ability to have Vision

like I read so many success books

Stephen that were like you know and this

was like kind of a line in many of the

networking talks I'd go to it's like

well what's your five-year Vision right

I was like I have no idea I'm literally

trying to just get the next three paying

clients like I will Coach your dog if

you let me I will Coach that's where I

was because I was so committed to trying

to be the best coach I could be and I

knew that I needed experience I needed

to work with as many people as possible

so I had no vision for where this thing

would go I just kept taking the next

step and the next step and the next step

and kind doing this it's not talked

about enough what you've just said

because perfectionism is one of the

things that causes procrastination and

especially as we set out to quit and

start the new thing you hear it all the

time I know you do which is well I

haven't got enough of this and I haven't

figured out this and I need to find a

mentor and an investor and this and a

website name and this and that whereas

in reality in everything I've ever done

it's this like horrifically messy

stumbling forward in into the darkness

like and even with this podcast like

I'll tell you how it came to be was I

enjoyed doing it that was it that was

the thesis didn't know how we'd make

money didn't know how big it would get

didn't know if other people would like

it actually still blown away that anyone

listens because it's like it's been one

of the most amazing like life-affirming

things that people care about the types

of conversations we have here yes but I

think that's such an important message

because perfectionism as you write about

in the book you talk about progress and

perfectionism and which one to choose

it's such a it's such an imprisoning

notion that is so pumped up by like fake

life coaches and fake entrepreneurs that

want to try and sell you something to

make them by making themselves seem like

they are super special and God gifted

yes we're all just messy little

unorganized scared

um 100

and so human and so this is the other

thing like so start before you're ready

so Stephen I have to tell like as a

young life coach I knew how ridiculous

it all sounded it sounded cheesy to me

again can I tell you my first Workshop

there was five people in it I was 24.

that's a lot my parents

my yoga instructor from college and

um one of her neighbors actually two of

her neighbors that she pulled in off of

the street and I had created a whole

little workbook I had done it with like

Microsoft clip art I stapled the little

workbooks together and I stood in front

of five people in my yoga teachers

basement in New Jersey and I delivered

like a day-long workshop and like I

think back to that cringy Marie but she

was also awesome because she started

before she was ready she didn't know

what the hell was going on but she did

it and it was like the worst thing I

probably ever did but I did it and then

it gave me a little bit of experience to

then like go do something else and then

go do something else so to your point

it's like everything for me has been

messy I'm like I don't know if this is

gonna work this sounds like a lot of fun

I have energy towards it I want to make

a difference let's try it

and what about today as you sit here now

yeah

um today it's still messy I've talked

about this all the time I'm like you

know 99 of what any of us need to do to

grow our business we've never done

before so we don't know what the hell

we're doing that's why for me everything

is figureoutable this phrase is so

useful like I use it every day still

it's not like there's some blueprint or

some road map to guaranteed success out

there like that's not how it works and

if you're someone who's Innovative or

creative or you're trying to do

something outside of the box there

certainly ain't no Playbook so you have

to be willing to just try things and

experiment and flop around and laugh at

yourself and then get up the next day

and do it again in the book you talk

about these the three points of

philosophy that oh the three rules the

three rules yeah the underpin this

figure outable

mindset yes what are those so rule

number one is that all problems or

dreams are figureoutable rule number two

if a problem or a dream isn't figure

outable it's a law of nature right so

death maybe taxes rule number three you

may not care enough to solve a

particular dream or reach a particular

goal and that's okay find something that

you do care deeply about and go back to

rule number one and what that does is it

creates a container

a container for us as human beings to be

honest about what we care enough about

to go figure it out because in in my

life there hasn't been one thing yet

that I have truly wanted to either

understand achieve transform do you know

what I have some different relationship

with that when it was true in my heart

that I haven't been able to figure it

out and if I don't want to figure

something out like I can get real at

myself like I don't care enough about

this to go figure it out right now

that's super important yes number three

it's the one we don't talk about yeah

because we'll all have goals in our life

that we

we think are important we think we want

to do I want to you know I want to

become a DJ I want to start working out

and get a six-pack I want to be an

artist

they they often don't happen and we we

end up thinking that they haven't

happened because we are an unmotivated

person so we say you know we start being

ourselves up I'm not motivate I'm a

failure I'll just keep trying at it we

very rarely pause and go do I actually

want to and there's this weird thing

that I that I noticed which I won't name

the person but they know who they are

because I know they're listening there's

this weird thing that I observed which

taught me a really important lesson is

sometimes like we want to want something

and the way we're just laughing the way

that I describe that is like

we want to want something we want to

have the motivation to do the thing we

want to want it yeah we want to want it

we think we should want it yes so we so

we go around saying we want it so like I

wanna I really want to go and lift

weights I might say Stephen I really

want you know I I'm saying to the world

you know I really want to go and lift

weights but it's because I want to be

the type of person that wants to be that

that wants that yes so I go around

saying it but I don't actually want it I

just want to want it yes I had this same

conversation with my best friend and we

were laughing about this because I have

put so much pressure on myself at so

many different points of my career

because I think I should want something

yeah and I'm like but if I okay for

example I think you'll appreciate this

because I think you and I share a

similar philosophy perhaps um about

social media for example

so I suck at social media right I'm

never on it I don't put any attention

and I actually had a colleague of mine

say to me like Marie you're so good at

what you do like why aren't your numbers

bigger and it was like one of these you

know like when someone makes a comment

you're like oh that kind of feels like a

punch in the gut and you're just like oh

oh I I don't know and anyone who knows

me my friends and even my audience they

know I'm like very transparent like I

don't spend a lot of time on my phone

like I'd prefer to write books I create

programs like there's other things and

then I I just want to live my life like

I feel like I'm like oh there's like oh

if I was really committed to being a

change maker then I would be making

videos I was like what the hell is that

philosophy like I remember torturing

myself I should want to want that

exactly but the truth is I don't exactly

and that's the hard part to admit yes

yes it's a really hard part to admit

that we just don't care enough we just

don't want it it's someone else's it's

someone else's and I think that just

having this conversation because I would

imagine there's folks listening to us

right right now that think that they

should want to want something and they

don't and then what happens so you know

I failed to go to the gym to get that

six-pack that I I tell myself I want or

I failed to start that business because

I don't really want to but I want to

want to start it yeah and then I use

excuses I and the the number one excuse

is I just don't I don't have the time

because that's a cloaking of as you said

earlier that's a cloaking of your true

priorities yep it's a way of saying so

it's not my fault it's just a lack of uh

time in the day there's only 24 hours

but really as you've said it's actually

that the how you use your time as one of

the clearest demonstrations of your

actual priorities of your values yeah

100 100 the the way that I always like

to keep myself honest about like what I

want and to call myself out on my own

excuses this is the the two-word

distinction that has helped me the most

understanding the difference between

can't versus won't so any time that I'm

about to say oh I can't do that I can't

do this I can't get up earlier to work

out to get those six packs I can't can't

write my next book I just don't have the

time for me learning Italian I can't

learn Italian I have so much on my plate

right now with my business so 99 not 100

99 of the time when we human beings say

can't it's a euphemism firm won't and

what does won't mean won't means we

really don't want to we're not willing

to make the sacrifice it's not that

important to us right now and so I

always encourage myself and other people

to play with this like any time you're

about to say the word can't try on won't

or try on that's not a priority for me

right now and see how your body feels

going back to this body truth something

of me goes you know what I actually

don't want to learn Italian right now

you know why because in my free time I'm

watching the house of dragons I do you

know what I mean I'm watching this show

or that show or I'm hanging out with my

friends or I'm doing this I'm doing

something else where I could be

dedicating that to my Italian Studies

but I'm not you know why because that is

not my priority right now that is so so

much more honest and it's so much more

freeing and then all of a sudden I'm not

a bad person I'm not not ambitious

enough I'm just me it's so it's so such

a small important change in like words

and and thinking just that swap swap

from I can't do something which says

it's not possible right or I'm not in

control which is even the worst one I

can't it's not not possible to I won't

which empowers you in such an important

way it says actually these are decisions

that I'm making I'm not the puppet I'm

the puppet master of my life that's

right and I get to call the shots around

here that's right and it says I and I

think just like that's not my priority

right now I choose not to that's not my

choice at this it's not much better you

can try on any one of those but all of a

sudden like something in you I think

feels the honesty you feel the alignment

all of us you feel more alive and you

have more energy and I'll tell you you

do that enough you tell yourself the

truth about you enough and all of a

sudden you start falling in love with

the real you

not the you that you think you're

supposed to be to get everyone else to

like you not the you that Society has

told you that you have to be or all the

people that you compare yourself to who

are probably faking it anyway but you

fall in love with the real you and

that's in my experience where real

happiness and satisfaction and

fulfillment comes from

the other part of that that switching

from

I can't to I won't is in the external

relationships we have with others

because I made the mistake with my

partner once upon a time of when she

suggested something to me and I did not

want to do it I would say I can't right

what I'm doing is I'm absolutely lying

to her because she you know she she

wants to go and do this thing at this

place and I guess I can't because I

pointed my schedule I guess you know

what I'm doing is I'm is I'm telling her

I want to so ask me again in the future

because I'm interested

but I can't right now because of an

external Factor so my girlfriend keeps

asking me if I want to do this thing and

I'm continuing to continue to say I

can't and it's building a really

inauthentic relationship well that's

fundamentally built on a set of Lies

there was a point and I think it was

because one of my podcast guests where I

just tried being honest yeah and it was

the best thing I've ever done yeah and

you know what she really appreciated it

because I don't want to do that it's so

important even you know in business and

in relationships and all of those things

someone being honest with you is very

rare that it's so effective when they

are I actually took a phone call as I

was coming down the stairs to start this

conversation from someone and they

called me and said

hi Stephen just so you know this is a

cold call so if you if you um don't want

to do the chord just hang up now but if

you've got 20 seconds let me know

and I was shocked

absolutely shocked the guy probably I

think he told me he listened and I said

to him what a [ __ ] that's brilliant

because usually I'm like I spend 10

seconds trying to figure out if they're

trying to sell me something so I can

just crack on with my day but for him to

be so honest with me by the way he

literally this is a cold call I'm going

to tell you about a product if you don't

want to take the call feel free to hang

up now and I was like this is amazing

what is it he told me I went on their

website I looked it up I said we use a

different tool called brandwatch so but

I said like this has been so inspiring

your honesty with me that it was so

disarming yeah and I think people are

smarter than we give them credit for so

what's what's happened on every cold

call that I've ever received is that you

know they call Mingo hi Steve is it

Stephen Bartlett I go who is it I think

it was the Stephen Butler I go who is it

the game just want to check is it

Stephen Bartlett I go yeah they go

so what are you doing with your data

infrastructure things at the moment

because we've got an offering and it's

like and then I'm like [ __ ] get out of

there but it's but the honesty was so

disarming and people are smarter than we

give them credit for so when you go

around telling your friends or your

loved ones whatever or your work

colleagues that you can they know yes

they know yeah but you don't want to

totally so something I want to think you

talked about we talked about

relationships though a topic we haven't

touched on completely it's funny I know

you wrote a book in 2000 and I'm gonna

say eight that's when it was published

yeah the earliest version was actually

like 2002 it was a eBook that was full

of hot pink and a lot of exclamation

points

that tells me everything about how you

feel about the book today yeah I a I

still stand behind the book today but I

was just it's also an explanation of how

things evolve yeah right

what's your journey been like with

romantic love oh my goodness so

um challenging like most people one of

my biggest challenges was actually I've

known from a very very young age that I

basically never wanted to be married or

have children

so that was just like it was this inner

knowing

you know many young girls at least my

friends they would fantasize about like

my wedding day and you know there was

lots of dolls and okay this is my baby

and all that stuff and I just never had

any of those desires or inklings and as

I became a teenager like why do you

think do you know I don't know besides I

know it's my truth and I have never

wavered on it could it be related to

your parents relationship at all it

could it very well could prior to Josh I

would meet folks and and and be in

relationship and they'd be like okay so

we're gonna get married then we're gonna

have kids and I'm like are you actually

listening because that's not what this

thing wants so that's that is not the

path I'm on so it was actually really

really challenging

um until I until Josh and I got together

back in 2003 and I felt like I had found

my soul mate how much have you thought

about how your early experiences have

like impacted your attachment style when

I look at some of my friends and the

relationships they have they often seem

to mirror the model they learn in their

household yeah so I've actually gone so

a couple things this has been an area of

Fascination for me mostly because a I

just want to be a really good partner

and a good human and especially with

Josh like we've had so many ups and

downs oh my God Stephen we've done so

much therapy and and I'm gonna share

something I don't know if you have

interviewed these this couple yet or

you're familiar with their work but

these folks in my opinion they were the

game changers and it does relate to kind

of early childhood Impressions and how

we were brought up and how that impacts

how you interact in your adult

relationships so um the most

game-changing

work that I've ever done when it comes

to having a healthy relationship is from

Harvel Hendricks and Helen lekelly Hunt

so there's a book called getting the

love you want it was like huge I think

in the 90s and then maybe the early

2000s I had never heard of it but Josh

and I stumbled upon it when honestly we

were on that we were in a really really

tough place and I didn't know if we were

going to make it through and

um

Josh had been talking with someone who

was like oh you guys should try Imago

therapy which is the kind of therapy

that they have developed this whole body

of work there's International therapists

they're friggin fantastic I was like we

must study with these people so they

kind of talk about the fact that every

single person

um you learn things in your family unit

so for me there was a lot of kind of

smothering that happened at certain

points so I need to be free I need to be

free and for Josh one of his kind of

core and they use this language and you

know it like a childhood wound for him

it was abandonment

so he wants to be close so oftentimes we

will pick the person that has the exact

opposite childhood wound so for me

someone that wants freedom of course is

going to choose a partner that wants

more attachment

so

in their work it's actually like you

choose the perfect partner to heal the

very things that you need to heal

so for me that you are saying okay do

you think that has to relate to just the

fact that I don't want to get married

just the fact that all that stuff does

that really it probably does because

there was a lot of me wanting to be free

in my childhood a lot of me feeling very

constricted and held back and so for

Joshua was the opposite but I would

highly recommend their work if you have

not explored it if anyone has not

explored it it totally saved us well

Josh you talk about the hard times in

um around 2017. it was we had several we

had um so when my stepson was leaving

for college I think this was around

maybe

2009 or 10. I might be getting the years

wrong forgive me but um I was basically

I was such a workaholic I was such a

workaholic and he was so just desirous

of just more attention and I was so

obsessed with my business and so

obsessed with trying to be successful

and this fear if I slowed down that

would all be taken away then this fear

that if I didn't continue to work and

build that I was going to lose

everything and it almost destroyed my

relationship it was terrible we had been

together I think oh I can probably do

the math better now so we'd been

together about six or seven years we met

in 2003 so it's probably about 2010 and

we had never once taken a proper

vacation together

because I always said that I couldn't

because I was too busy working

yeah

it's so funny

um I have a friend who is reminds me of

you so much in that way in the sense

that she has an immigrant story she came

to this country when she was super young

she was

um

bullied

in school she found some you know she

she found they didn't have any money

that was the source of much of the pain

in our home

she started a business starts to go well

she doesn't want to get married she

doesn't want to have kids her partner

has recently broken up with her because

her partner is not getting any time from

her and she just works all the time

I watch her and I think you're being

dragged by that fear of

going back to your childhood you're

being dragged by it or like like a

being tied to the back of a car that's

just flying down the motorway yes and I

just don't know what to say to her

because

she

She's suffering the consequences of not

having connections or friends or love in

her life yes but her ankle is attached

to the back of this Lorry and it is

flying down the motorway her business is

killing it when I say killing it I mean

she's probably worth hundreds of

millions she's super young she's in a

early she's in her 20s

um but she's unhappy but she can't get

off the [ __ ] Lorry it's dragging her

yeah would you say to someone like that

I think that it's really important for

every person to come to that realization

that

they may be killing it in certain areas

and then to be honest enough to say the

areas where it's not working and then I

would always come back to if you want

this it's kind of like we go back to

everything is figure outable if having

love in your life friendships in your

life Adventure in your life down time in

your life is important to you you can

absolutely figure it out and what I've

seen in my own journey and this is my

own personal estimation of myself I've

actually become way more successful I've

become a better Coach I've become a

better teacher I've become a better

friend I've become a better partner

not being dragged by my drive

not allowing

the fear of losing any success that I've

built

be the force that keeps me from the

richest parts of my life which are my

connections for anyone who's who's in

that space right now they have to want

to make that choice to change and then

be willing to as much as they took the

risk to start a business they have to be

even more courageous to redefine their

own success at a higher different level

and it takes courage takes a lot of

Courage so how did you redefine your own

definition of success at a high level so

for me it was around really stepping

back and asking myself what matters most

like is it the money in the bank account

is it the amount of followers or

customers or whatever and I remember

sitting in that therapy chair and like

thinking about what I've grown and then

seeing this beautiful man and going like

you know what it's not about choosing

either or but like you've got a problem

Marie and you got to fix this like this

thing meaning the business cannot be

your number one priority if you know in

your heart that love is the most

important thing in life then you need to

start demonstrating that you need to

start acting that you need to start

making time for that God you know in

your heart yeah so this is the

interesting thing because we all know

yeah like

objectively no because we've read read

that it's true we met you know I see

this a lot I see like we know we should

goes back to kind of the wanting to want

thing yeah I know that people are

happier when they have friends and when

they have a romantic partner typically

in whatever Dynamic that's that

relationship is formed I know that to be

true

but I feel like I need to keep building

this [ __ ] business and climbing that

ladder and sure it's such an intense

strong all-consuming feeling just to

keep on going keep throwing coal into

the engine of this train yep but I know

I should spend time with my friends this

is where I'm gonna go back well all this

stuff so as it relates and I think those

are maybe two different slight nuances

so I would go back to the Helen and the

Harville work like there's a couple of

tools that they teach you one of which

is this tool called dialogue it's a very

structured

form of having a conversation with your

loved one

Stephen I cannot tell you how healing

this particular form of work is you

could probably look it up online they do

tons of workshops very inexpensively

they're actually even taking their

workshops into police departments like

because it is transformative how it

helps people connect how it helps people

see each other how it helps people hear

each other and how it helps people heal

and when Josh and I started practicing

these tools that we learned from from

Harvel and Helen

something in me relaxed and I was able

to see and hear and recognize and

understand Josh's needs in a way that

did not feel threatening to my own drive

for my own success it was as if

previously those two things were at odds

and then all of a sudden everything was

integrated where he felt really heard

and seen and I felt really heard and

seen and it was as though that battle

completely disintegrated

and so no longer was it this or that no

longer was it will either give me

attention or you know what I mean I have

to give up this business no it was like

oh now I understand what he really needs

which is not tons of time it's actually

presence and giving him support and love

in the way that he can really feel it

and while he gets nurtured and it's

completely different than how I do but

again this is like a practice and it's

nothing that we're taught in school so

we're all just stumbling around at least

I was and Josh and I were and now it

feels like Josh is so much more

supportive of all the things I do in my

business and ironically not it's not

that I care less but I'm less driven by

fear it's more driven by desire and fun

and creativity and wouldn't it be cool

if oh let's try that and only saying yes

to things that are like a full body yes

not saying yes to things because I think

it's going to get me somewhere or it's

going to you know get that bag so much

bigger it's like you know what at some

point enough's enough I'm sure you've

experienced this it's like when does

enough become enough

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I did actually want to ask because

men don't often including me as a man we

don't often appreciate the social battle

that

and the social stigma and criticism that

women who say the things like I want to

focus on my career yeah yeah I don't

want to have kids I don't want to get

married sometimes undergo and I've I've

because I have these conversations now

I'm continually like cognizant of my own

bias in the way that I ask the questions

yeah

how do you view all of that like how do

you view the the pressure that women

face to fall in line with the

old school stereotype of kids they're in

such a changing world yeah you know it's

really interesting so one of the things

I do on my show marietv is I answer

questions I love just taking questions

from our audience and answering them and

one of our viewers said hey Marie how

did you decide not to have kids and we

had never covered the topic before and I

was like oh well let me just I want to

talk about that and it was one of the

most popular episodes that we haven't

we've ever had and it was because it

sparked this discussion just about

choice and about oh wow you just didn't

want them and you knew that it like

wasn't a struggle and I'm like that's

maybe not everyone's journey and that's

great but I need to be honest about mine

because one of the things and we've had

talks with my mom about this it's like

her kind of set prescription was so

there from society and from it's like

you get married and you have kids and

that was I think her authentic dream but

it was also the conditioning right and

um I just think it's interesting I like

talking about it because I think it's

really important for every woman to know

that she has the right to choose her

Destiny and whether that Destiny

includes a family doesn't include a

family includes some semblance of what

she believes as a family like I want

women to have that choice I can't tell

you how many comments were under that

video people left comments anonymously

who had given birth and absolutely loved

their kids and said I would have made a

different choice if I knew I had one

and it was shocking

how many women feel that they must

follow this prescription and I think in

2022 when we're recording this I'm like

you know my eyes bulge out of my head

I'm like no they don't have to and we

need everyone's gifts and it's like I

just knew from the moment that I could

understand I was like that is not my

path in this lifetime my path in this

lifetime is to help people give birth to

their ideas and to possibilities it's

not necessarily to give birth to a

physical child through my physical body

and so um I like to talk about it just

because I want women to have as many

choices as they possibly can to be as

brilliant and as impactful and happy as

they possibly can

yeah certainly not setting off a topic

we talk about enough yeah because it

goes back to these kind of like

colliding narratives The Narrative is

much stronger that

you know you get married at the stage

you do this you get a mortgage you get a

house you have your kids totally before

here if you don't you're a failure

that's right we all feel that men feel

it too in other ways but I think the the

social pressure sometimes is a little

bit more intense on women to meet these

deadlines in these timelines yeah

time genius yes before we started

talking I asked you what was front of

mind at the moment and you said time

genius yes why did you say that so uh

probably for I would say almost a year

and a half if not two years so much of

my own Creative Energy has been pouring

into this uh new program this new

experience that we created really born

out of my own pain I

hit a wall at the end of 2020 where I

didn't realize how burned out I was I

think like many of us and I found myself

in this position that I never found

myself in my whole career where I

started dreading waking up in the

morning and so I went on this journey of

discovering and putting together like

how do we heal the Paradigm of living in

time stress and I described that where

it's like you don't know what to focus

on first when you wake up in the morning

because there's so many things to do you

feel guilty if you take a rest for five

minutes because your brain says I should

be doing something more important you

have trouble prioritizing you feel like

no matter how many hours you put in It's

never enough so we put together this

program and it has honestly helped me so

much and then I shared it with my

audience I've never seen anything get

results for people it has changed

everything for me I went on um what is

it it's there's there's really five key

parts to it first it's about changing

our mindset from the inside out about

getting out of time stress and living as

a Time genius where you know in your

bones and in practice that there is

always time for what's most important

it's a complete different Paradigm again

we can talk more about it it's a little

bit too lengthy to get into everything

here the second part of it is when you

know it's important you can ignore

what's not I found that for me in

different parts of my life and I'm

pretty good at this one but I can I'm

always practicing is if there's too much

on my plate if everything's important

nothing's important and then all of a

sudden I'm working all the time I've got

17 plates in the air but when I have one

project one primary project and

everything else is kind of secondary my

life has spaciousness I have Focus

beautiful work gets done like it's just

a different way to operate and you have

such an easier time saying no to things

when you know exactly what's important

at this stage and season of your life

then there's the third step is really

about setting yourself up to win every

single day and we're all different in

this way so if you think about you know

do you like having a messy desk or a

clean desk

somewhere in the middle well I like

having a clean desk but my desk is

always messy but so you probably operate

pretty well through there like it's

comfortable for you I've survived thus

far yeah yeah yeah but some people are

like I know people that are minimalist

and you know it's like I love having my

books around me I love having notebooks

around me but a lot of people don't make

an ecosystem or design their environment

to really help them Thrive and then of

course there's certain things we can do

with technology to make sure we're never

interrupted that distractions don't

happen different things we can do with

our brain

um and then it's a lot about kind of

setting yourself up for follow-through

and not relying on motivation which as

you know the silliest thing to rely on

on Earth so that's kind of like the

brief overview of it but as I've been

walking people through this program and

seeing how fast they get results it just

makes me happy because folks are they're

lowering their stress levels they're

having time to be with their kids

they're taking walks on the beach

they're getting more done in less time

and they're not feeling exhausted

anymore and so it's a really rewarding

thing one of the words I wrote down is

you're talking

multi-passionate yes yes

you said you had ADHD yeah

is that somewhat linked to

your multi-passionate entrepreneurialism

it's it's a great question that I don't

know if I have a good answer to

um because I'm certainly not a clinical

psychologist like I went to um the best

ADHD doctor in the country who gave me

the diagnosis and he's like you have the

gift I'm like thank you I have the gift

thank you very much so I don't know if

those two things are linked

um but what I do know is anytime that

I've shared that phrase with many people

they're like oh my gosh I think I'm

multi-passionate too it's the person

that has this beautiful business and has

that art Instagram account and is an

amazing Chef too and it just gives us

again it's a silly little phrase that

just kind of gives you a little bit of a

playground to talk about your different

interests and maybe a way that doesn't

make you feel as broken as I did what is

focus sit within that because that when

people hear that they think of a lack of

focus yeah which is the as you say the

antithesis of like entrepreneurial

advice it's like focus on something do

it for 10 is be consistent Focus so I

tried that that approach because I read

about it so much and I'm like oh my gosh

I must follow what everyone says because

that's the path to success and Stephen

when I tried to just be a coach and just

do like the bartending on the side to

earn money I felt like I was cutting off

a limb there were so many other pieces

of me that were screaming to be

expressed and I was like what's wrong

with me why can't I just be a coach and

be happy and then do my bartending like

why can't it be that simple but I was

probably um 23 or 24 and I love dance I

was not a trained dancer it was just

something that was in my body and in my

soul and I sat down with myself and I

did something called the 10-year test

this is something that has served me

well too

I thought I said okay Marie

if when you're 34 and you look back and

you did not at least try to make dance a

part of your career will you regret it

and the answer was hell yes so when I

was 24 even though I didn't have any

dance training and it was just a passion

I started taking more dance classes and

I started teaching Fitness classes which

got me into a whole world of eventually

becoming a Nike dance athlete but the

point of that is I tried to follow that

path of one thing and I just failed

miserably and because I was so unhappy I

said all right [ __ ] it I'm gonna pursue

Dance I'm gonna pursue coaching I'm

gonna do the bartending I'm going to let

all of my different interests Thrive

knowing that I couldn't do that forever

I knew I wouldn't earn as much money as

a coach I knew I was going to kind of

keep everything a little bit slower

because my focus would be split but the

joy and the Fulfillment that came from

giving myself permission to pursue all

these different things far outweighed

any slowness of growth or financial gain

I think that's the I think that's it I

think um I was thinking about it as

you're speaking and

the Trap there or the typically it will

you know we get ourselves in really

complicated positions in life because

words a single word like find your

passion it's a singular word yes so

within the fact that there's an S

missing on the end of it

sends you a message that there should be

one it's an Easter egg and you need to

go and search for it you can you have to

go and find it you know all these words

can [ __ ] us up sometimes in life and one

of the words that I think [ __ ] people

up when they're thinking about what you

just said is

I think at the start of you said

something like I know I wouldn't be as

successful yes because of the the

definition we're using for success in

that case is not happiness you just

ended up saying like I was way more

fulfilled and way more but I wouldn't

make as much money so if you if I'm

saying like if you're if your definition

of success had always been happiness

then

and if that was your guiding your North

Star then of course you'd become a

multi-passionate entrepreneur but if

your definition of success which nobody

says it's just making shitloads of money

and ignoring all the sort of branches of

expression that we all have and all of

Interest we have then of course you

would have probably focused on coaching

you might have been a bigger coach as

you said like you might have been you

know whatever not that you you didn't

get there anyway but because you did but

you know it might have been faster let's

say yeah but I think it would and the my

counter to that was this so all of that

experience like teaching with Nike and

also being on camera like in some weird

targets and and Walmarts in the states

like there's actual DVDs of me on

Fitness videos back when there was like

this and like you know what I mean

because but all of that experience set

me up to start my own YouTube show set

me and it brought all of these different

expressions and

influences into my brand that lived

today that make it very very different

than other people you know there's some

people that are coaches that are

brilliant and they have this beautiful

academic background or different things

and for me all of that flavor made its

way in and it gave me the confidence and

and I think a uniqueness that um

actually made the business that I have

today so much more rich and so much more

unique unique and um and joyful to run

that's exactly what creativity is isn't

it it's having

um

rare and uh unique points of inspiration

and experience and bringing them

together to create something new so like

you know you're doing Fitness stuff yes

one can see how the lessons you learned

there

are still in the work you do today and

the example as I look down at this iPad

in front of me that I that I always talk

about when I'm talking about how like

straight seemingly strange things can

end up defining you seemingly strange

creative Inspirations can Define you as

is the iPad and apple and knowing that

Steve Jobs taking that typography class

was ultimately the reason much of the

reason why apple is they care so much

about design and Detail in typography

and that set them apart from other

brands which I won't name and you'd

never think that would make sense and

but he cites that in his commencement

speech he cites these really obscure

classes he took as being the reason why

apple is what it is today but in typical

narrative we say to like if you want to

be a coach go do a course on how to be a

coach just that like right don't [ __ ]

music right which could be a great [ __ ]

breath work or this meditation class you

want to do [ __ ] all these other things

Focus yeah but the best those that