When I say day 102, does it bring back

any memories? Yeah, it's the only

YouTube video that I didn't release. My

name is Russ Cook and I'm attempting to

become the first person ever to run the

entire length of Africa. It was probably

the hardest part of my whole life.

What happened?

So, going down this dirt path and two

blokes on a motorbike pass. I knew that

if I'm on the bike for longer than half

an hour, it's bad news. Ended up

spending 7 hours on a motorbike going

into the jungle. I was getting

kidnapped. Your partner told us that she

thought you had died.

I mean, I thought I was going to die as

well.

Were you thinking about people back

home?

Russ, I don't think many people know

that you did all this stuff before

Africa. 22 years old, you become the

first person to run from Asia to London.

You fed yourself for like 7 days. You

pulled the car as well, which is pretty

crazy. What were you looking for? Class,

one hell of a question, man.

Things had got pretty bad. I wasn't

speaking to my family. I was drinking

and gambling. I'd wake up throughout the

week and just burst into tears crying.

You had dark thoughts? Yeah.

But, ultimately, you know, no one was

going to come and save you. It just had

to be me. And I thought Africa would be

best adventure ever.

Russ, day 30, you start pissing blood.

I knew it was bad, but probably end. You

get robbed at gunpoint.

They got passports, money. And then, a

falling out amongst the team. You've not

talked about this in detail either. I

just blew up, shouted at everyone,

throwing chairs. What happened?

Well,

Congratulations, Diary of a CEO gang.

We've made some progress. 63% of you

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Our goal is 50%. So, if you've ever

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episode.

[Music]

Russ,

you know, you're someone that has

achieved and has pursued really

anomalous

feats in their life. Feats that most of

us as Muggles would never

have the

insanity

to take on. So, I was I was so

curious to understand from your

perspective, what are the dominoes that

fell in your life that led you to be

the guy that sits here that everyone

around the country and around the world

is

perplexed and astonished and inspired

by. Where does it start?

Class, one hell of a question, man.

Uh I think

really,

I had quite a normal upbringing.

And maybe that's like the basis for

why

I ended up doing all this kind of stuff.

Um

yeah, like

dad My early memories of like my dad

were he was very hard working man.

He cut metal for a living and

didn't really see that much of him when

I was young. He would

be out working 13, 14 hours a day.

Coming home, metal dust all over him.

Mom would look after me and my brothers.

And um

I think he kind of instilled the

like that hard working mentality in me.

And

you know, a lot of the

a lot of the dominoes fell from that,

really.

And what was your mom like when you were

growing up?

My mom was very what I always remember

about my mom is she really enforced it

in us to be like polite.

She that was like a big thing for So,

always like yes, yes, please, thank

yous.

Uh whenever we'd go around to people's

houses, she was like make sure that we

behaved well and all of this kind of

stuff. And uh

like her her dad is like military man.

So, 18 to 65 always in RAF, like very

well respected. Um so, I think she got

that from him and that's what she passed

down to us. But, she was like very

caring. She

her her whole life was her kids, really.

So,

yeah, like a lot of respect for my mom.

The absence of your father. Mhm. You

said a second ago that because he was

quite absent, your mother kind of

carried the responsibility of raising

the kids herself.

Do you reflect on that and as you look

back in your life,

understand how his absence had an impact

on you? Because before before this

conversation today, I got to speak to

my team and I got to speak to lots of

people around you. As you know, cuz I'm

sure they're all Yeah. They're all

snitching. So, we spoke to your

girlfriend, we spoke to your dad. Yeah.

Um spoke to your team. Spoke to everyone

around you privately. Um and got all of

their take sort of perspectives and

stuff. And it appeared from those

conversations that the early sort of

absence of your father had a pretty big

impact on shaping you as an individual.

Yeah, I mean, I guess

I think my

I I Now I'm Now I'm older, I just look

at it like my dad was doing everything

that he could to

provide for his family.

You know, like I think he took that

responsibility really seriously.

Um

and

yeah, I mean, it's hard to hard to

really contemplate how that affects me.

But, the the this the few things I did

see of my daddy was just always like he

ran a marathon when I was a kid and I

remember that being like a big

you know, he'd always talk about

willpower. And he didn't say much, but

like he was more of a man of he did

things rather than spoke about them. So,

he'd go out and work really hard and

he'd go and run a marathon. And I'd see

these things happening.

You know, he'd come home from work and

he'd be knackered and he'd be on the

sofa and

like he kind of just that was the way he

led, you know? It's a generational thing

in many respects, isn't it? Cuz my my

dad's I feel like is very much the same.

I don't think we had many

deep conversations at all.

Nah. But, he they he led by example in

the sense that he worked hard, loved his

family. Yeah. Um that marathon your dad

ran.

Mhm. Did he do things like that a lot?

Um

not really. He was so He was working

pretty much all the time. So, he'd do He

He ran two marathons, one when he was

31, one when he was 40.

But, he used to take me out on runs when

I was quite young.

And

you know,

he'd

wouldn't really say anything, but it was

more just me seeing it that I think was

important for me.

Like that's how he operated, you know?

What about affection?

Uh Yeah, no, my dad's

My dad and my mom are very affectionate

people. Mhm. I don't think I've

I don't think I've ever seen them like

even kiss, maybe maybe once or twice

when I was young. Mhm. But, like

you know,

the I love yous and I love yous and

stuff like this wasn't words that got

thrown around in our family.

Not that they didn't mean Don't know

that they didn't mean it. I just think

that like we we our family is a bit

stiff like that. Mhm.

Not all families have the tools. Yeah.

know what I mean?

Yeah. They just Maybe they didn't get

them from their parents.

I think that's exactly it, you know? And

I think when

as I've got older and I've understood

like

where they've come from and their

parents and their upbringings, then it's

like

makes sense. But, it didn't make sense.

Didn't make sense at the time. It's hard

like when you're young, it's really I

find it really hard to make sense of a

lot of things. I was one of them like I

had a lot of questions. Mhm.

Hard to find the answers, but I kept

digging. What kind of questions did you

have?

I guess it was more

stuff like I

I was finding it hard to find my way in

the world and especially when I got to

like teenage years and I'd be like

how do I do this? Or how do I you know,

how do I build a career? How do I make

money? How do I do all of these things?

How do I navigate friendships and

relationships and all these kind of

complex how do I find meaning in my

life?

Not that I was directly asking those

questions, but they're the kind of

things you I'm pondering at that age.

And

I think

you know, from my parents, it was it was

quite hard to find those answers just

because I think they we all struggled

with communicating like that, you know?

Uh when you were 13, 14 years old,

do you think you were different from

your peers? Do you feel like you were

different in any way or isolated in any

way from other people? I looked at

people

and I was like

like teachers, for example, or any kind

of authority figures in my life.

And

if if I sensed that they weren't very

happy in their lives or they were a bit

miserable, I would

kind of discard a lot of what they were

trying to tell me. They I found a lot at

that age had a lot of people trying to

tell me what to do or you know, do this,

do that, behave like this.

And I was like if I do what you say,

then I'm going to end up like you. And I

don't want I don't want that. So, I'm

doing my own thing.

And

I think that kind of started a journey

of trying to find my own answers and

stumbling

across a lot of different things to try

and find that.

Do you think your

mom and dad were happy?

No.

I kind of feel bad for say I want to do

them a a service when I'm talking about

them cuz I do respect them a lot now.

Especially I'm old Now I'm older and I

understand things

more, but I don't think at the time

I think they've had their struggles like

a lot of us have our struggles, you

know? Mhm.

Yeah. I asked the question because I

even look at my own life and I think

whatever the source of my parents'

unhappiness was,

I think as kids we sometimes um our

relationship with whatever with

whatever's making our parents unhappy

often has a big impact on us. And I you

know, I sit here a lot with comedians

and stuff. And I remember Jimmy Carr.

So, I think it was Jimmy Carr said to

me, he goes, "Listen, when you sit down

with a comedian, Steve, you don't need

to ask the comedian if they're

depressed. You need to ask them which

one of their parents were depressed

because the reason for their behavior

will be at some level a desire to please

or make one of their parents smile for a

change." You know what I mean? And and I

wondered that with with your early

upbringing cuz cuz you know, I got to

speak to your family and I got to speak

to people around you and the picture

that was emerging was that

home wasn't the happiest place and it

wasn't the most loving, connected,

cuddly,

perfect, rosy, smiley,

Yeah.

you know, idyllic environment to say the

least. No, yeah, I'd agree. I'd agree

with that.

And

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I think it wasn't for the

lack of trying. Yeah. But if it's like

you said, they didn't have the tools and

you know,

ultimately that is what kind of pushed

pushed me to go and try and find my own

things, which is worked out for the

best.

And when you say

pushed you to go find your own things,

um 16, 17 years old you move out.

Mhm.

Why?

Well, things

things had got quite bad

with with family stuff. I was

I was a piece of [ __ ] honestly, yeah.

Um very rebellious, very disrespectful,

didn't listen to anything

that

they were saying.

And very intent on doing my own thing.

And I think that kind of took a big toll

on everyone in the family

because I was

you know, I was stressing everyone out.

Why?

What were you looking for?

I think like deep down I was just like

looking for something more in my life. I

was looking at what

you know, the life that the adults

around me were living and I was like, I

don't I don't want that.

I I I want I want more than that. I want

to go and see

I want to go and live, you know?

And

you know, that's kind of when

you know, you've got a kid that's 16,

hasn't done anything with his life and

he's just kind of disrespecting you,

ignoring everything you're saying and

doing his own thing, coming home

whenever. Kids don't Kids aren't born

like that, are they?

Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

They're not born

acting out and disrespecting people. So,

that's why I'm asking about the cause of

it cuz

you know, sometimes when you hear kids

doing that kind of thing, you kind of

think they're trying to they're acting

out to try and get some attention and

then they're they're kind of like

rebelling from

you know, authority because they feel, I

don't know, disconnected in some way or

whatever. I think that's maybe it, you

know, like

it's probably part of it. I'm not I'm

not exactly sure why.

Um

but that's

that's kind of what happened and

I think I was I had a lot of energy, a

lot of motivation, viciously ambitious,

but didn't really know how to apply it,

where to apply it to get what I wanted.

And I was looking around me for

I think I was looking around searching

for the guidance that that would help

me, but I wasn't really finding it. So,

I was just trying to make I was just

basically

discarding things that I thought weren't

important, people or opinions that

weren't important or weren't going to

get me where I wanted. And I was just

looking for

looking for it. And yeah, that's kind of

how things started unraveling and then

ended up moving out.

And

that that induced a quite a tasty few

years in itself.

When you say moved out,

Mhm.

do you mean like organized the removal

van and had an apartment you were moving

into or what was the day like when you

moved out?

Uh it was quite a messy it was quite

messy for a couple of years in there.

Like I remember my parents sent me up to

my granddad in Scotland

one summer when I was like 15 and this

was kind of the start of when things

were going quite bad.

Um

Your parents were doing okay?

My parents were doing okay. Yeah. Yeah.

But then so then and then I remember one

night they moved all my stuff to my

other granddad's house

and changed the lock on the door.

And they were like, you're not coming

back. Kicked the door in.

And I'm bold in.

So,

it was kind of happening for a while and

then it got to the point where

I remember my mom being like, yeah, you

need to go. And I was like, cool. It

wasn't like a

out the door with tail between my legs

or anything. It was like, I don't need

you anyway. See you out.

Like At what age?

15, 16?

about 17. Okay.

Yeah.

And then

um I organized a flat. It was the

cheapest flat I could rent in Worthing

and I was still

I was at college.

So, I was working about four or five

part-time jobs, just like cleaning. I

was up on my bike going to Waitrose

cleaning toilets in the morning before

college and then

finished that and still I went into

sales at first.

You know when they change the locks on

the door and tell you that you can't

come back home.

Yeah.

If I asked them at the time why they'd

done that, what do you think they would

have said?

They would have said like, this guy

needs humbling.

He's he's he doesn't know anything about

the world. He's very arrogant, very

disrespectful. And then in hindsight, as

you

right. Yeah. Totally right. But you you

must have empathy for that kid.

Yeah.

Because you now you look back as an

adult, you can understand the complex

range of emotions.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Cuz there's no kids aren't like

they're not

it born to be like terrors like that.

Yeah.

Uh well, I get it from I think now I'm

older I just get it from both sides.

Like it it's really difficult it was

really difficult for them to manage that

like complex kind of personality.

And it was also really hard for me to

express or communicate my in a way that

was I was going to get myself listened

to. I wasn't doing that. I was just like

totally

totally trying to run everyone over, you

know?

You wanted to be

heard. Yeah.

Think so.

And what does that mean?

I I guess I just wanted

someone to like

understand and

I just I think I just wanted the

guidance like of someone I wanted

guidance but from someone

that

I

someone that I looked at and was like, I

want what they've got, you know? Or like

they've done life in a way that I

want to do life.

And they could teach me the lessons, but

I didn't I was struggling to kind of

find that at age.

It reminds me of my conversation with

Ashley Walters and from Top Boy. Yeah.

Said pretty much the exact same thing.

His father wasn't around.

And so he was looking for a role model

or guidance, answers. And he couldn't

find it, so he ends up joining these

gangs and

that spirals somewhere else and it's so

interesting that, you know, a young a

young man at your age, that age, sort

of, you know, 14, 15, 16, 17, if they

don't have someone there to model

themselves on,

they can descend into different forms of

chaos. Yeah. Like so much energy,

um which is in a lot of ways

I think

a positive thing.

But just without those

guidelines to

to actually get you somewhere, it just

kind of becomes chaos. When you moved

out then, so you moved out sort of 16,

17 years old,

how was your relationship with your

parents from there? Terrible. Really?

Yeah, didn't speak to them for a long

time.

Uh even up until

I would say up until probably the last

year,

it is it's couple of years, it's been

pretty

Yeah.

But um You're 27 now. Yeah. We're

talking about when you were 17.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's there was there's

moments in there where it's got better

and then got worse and got better.

But for

for a while it's yeah, it was

tough.

When you you know, 17 years old they

change the locks, you move out.

Mhm.

I'm sure your response was hardest

geezer.

Cuz it always is, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Like you said, it's just [ __ ] it, I

don't care. Yeah. I'll figure it out.

Yeah. But at some deeper level

you're I think we're all bullshitting

ourselves to if we say that it doesn't

have an impact cuz I can relate. I

remember the call to my mom at 18 and

telling her I was leaving university.

And I remember what she said to me. I

can't repeat what she said cuz it's so

vicious.

Yeah, it's like you it's so it's so

vicious, one of the things she said to

me. But

it was hardest geezer exterior. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And then at some deeper

level

on certain days Oh, yeah. You know,

certainly catch me on the off day.

100% man, like and I think the

hardest geezer kind of approach like

that aggressive approach to it is just

like a way of coping with it. And every

now and again, you know, like the

emotions would roll out and yeah, I'm

not denying that for a second. I

remember seeing I moved out and then I

think I saw my dad maybe

I can't remember how long after it was,

a few good few months, maybe a year or

so, and he just made me cry just seeing

him. So, like the the emotions were

always there.

But to kind of get through it, it was

like, right, you know,

[ __ ] everyone.

Why did you cry when you saw him?

Just cuz I think like

there's always a part of me that

understands that my parent there is no

there's no one else in the world that

loves me like my parents do. And like no

matter what they do or

like how bad badly I felt I'd been

wronged

which I wasn't really, they were just

trying their best. I always knew that,

you know,

whatever happens, these these are two

people that actually care about me the

most. And I think that just makes like

when things aren't going well, that

makes you emotional cuz it's like

these are the people I'm supposed to be

closest with. Things real bad. Right

now.

So, you're so right. I think so many

people are probably in that situation

right now where they they love that

person, but they don't know how to build

the bridge. Both people.

Yeah. And it takes two to build the

bridge. It really does. They can't build

it, I can't build it. So, we love each

other, but we're [ __ ] at war. Yeah.

Or I think like a big part of that for

me in building that bridge was actually

my girlfriend when I was away.

Oh. Cuz she

she went over and she went around the

house and spoke to him loads and she's

cuz even before I left like

I went around to see both my parents

before I left it was the first time I

see them in like

maybe like a year and a half, 2 years.

Really? You hadn't seen your parents

Yeah, yeah, yes. Before I left for

Africa.

We'd spoken, me and my girlfriend spoken

a lot about these kind of things and

how like important we want families to

be

and she

I felt like I was lost making that

that step. I just didn't really know how

to do it, what to say, blah, blah, blah.

But she kind of over this year is really

like done a lot of in that sense.

People might think this is sexist, but I

do think women have more tools.

100%. 100%.

My girlfriend's the same. If my

girlfriend me and my mom sometimes don't

speak for prolonged periods of time and

my girlfriend like insists upon it.

Yeah, yeah.

And then dragged me down to Plymouth and

was like, "We're going to see her."

Yeah.

Oh, mate, I couldn't agree more.

I especially with me and my girlfriend's

dynamic anyway like that's really

she's

I look at her like a like a wizard in

that sense. I'm like, "I don't know what

I'm doing but she

she's got that under control, which is

amazing. So, you're 17 years old, you've

moved out, you're on your own.

What's the plan?

Yeah. Wow.

Um

yeah, so I remember I had this flat in

Worthing. It was the cheapest flat

available on Rightmove.

450 quid a month.

Which is more than I could afford but I

was like, "Right, let's do it."

Um was working a bunch of different

jobs, trying to finish college.

Kind of scraped through.

And then I um

I actually

was watching

This this is so cringe but it's funny. I

was like one of them lads that watched

Wolf of Wall Street and was like, "This

is it for me." Do you know what I mean?

Um the I this is the game. I'm going to

I'm going to become a millionaire

millionaire doing sales stuff.

So, I went and got a few sales jobs.

Um

made some actually not bad money for for

my age but really didn't enjoy it and

you know, ended up with that kind of

lack of guidance I ended up just doing

the things that felt to me like the most

fun or the most like they would bring in

my naivety they would bring me the most

meaningful experiences at time, which

ended up being going out a lot with the

boys and drinking and

uh gambling and that's kind of what my

life was for the next kind of 2, 3 years

after that. Were you were you addicted

to gambling?

Um

Cuz I was reading through your story and

speaking to some of your friends and

they told me that there was

some instances where you you basically

lost everything you had and had to

borrow money off you your misses at the

time.

Yeah, oh mate, it was it's embarrassing

to even talk about like

I remember

yeah, I didn't have much money

but I'd done one night on roulette I'd

done about two I think it was over two

grand on online roulette just sitting

there on my phone late at night just

tapping away.

And that was kind of everything I had at

the time and plus the overdraft plus

every all the rest of it.

And I had to

I was too embarrassed to say anything so

I told my misses like

I think I just made up some [ __ ]

lies about what this XYZ said like, "Oh,

I need to borrow money for rent and

stuff this month."

There was a moment there where I was

like, "Okay, this really needs to stop."

And I just went on every single gambling

website I could find and did the

self-ban thing.

Never gamble since.

And you

alcohol?

Yeah, I mean I think the alcohol stuff

was just like binge drinking culture. I

wouldn't say like I was an alcoholic or

anything like this.

That was just

the only way I could really the only

thing I look forward to. I'd hate I'd

hate my jobs I'd hate work all the

throughout the week but I'd be like,

"All right, Saturday with the boys or

Saturday drinking this whatever out here

was like the thing that I look forward

to. That was the only thing I was really

living for.

Was there part of you throughout that

period of your life when you're working

in sales, you're gambling too much,

you're drinking too much? I heard you

were overweight at the time as well.

Was there a part of you that

sort of a voice inside your head that

was saying like

"Come on, Russ. Like this isn't it."

Definitely. Um

I was so miserable, man.

So, so miserable at that time.

I really struggled. I remember I would

like

wake up throughout the week just like

crying.

Just so miserable.

Um

yeah.

You'd wake up through the week crying.

Just like I'd wake up like supposed to

go to work. I'd just be I'd just be like

so upset. Just be like

the worst, so miserable. I I what

Couldn't just fathom

I was like, "Why is

why is

life this

why does it suck this much?" You know,

like I really had no

Felt like I was kind of trapped.

Lack of connection I think was a big

part of that.

You had people around you there but you

just weren't connected.

not I didn't I mean I had like a few a

few of my boys but I I wasn't speaking

to my family at all at this time.

Um

Well, I guess I was just doing a lot of

things that would make you

miserable you like I was I had no

control over my finances cuz I was

pissing away everything I earned on

roulette. I was the only things I look

forward to was going out and getting

pissed which I could which would make me

me feel like [ __ ] as well.

And then I'd go to work and hate it.

Working every day.

So, like it doesn't take a genius to

work out that's going to be a pretty

miserable existence, you know?

And you didn't have family around you.

Didn't have yeah, didn't have like many

deep

connections.

So. How old were you at that

point in your life? So, that would be

like 18, 19, 17, 18, 20 maybe just

about.

So, if you had to give me a a word to

summarize your sort of mental health

throughout that period, what would you

how would you describe your mental

health? Toilet.

Yeah, bad.

Pretty bad.

Was there a worst day

that you can recall?

Um

Yeah, I mean I remember like I do

remember

just

You don't want to talk about it.

Yeah. You you you go at your own pace.

Tell me what you're comfortable talking

about.

I I mean I I remember

days

like I said

I'd wake up crying.

Speak to my boss. I remember even one

day with my boss

it speaking to him on the phone just

bursting into tears crying.

And

I think what was hard is that I didn't

understand anything. I didn't understand

why.

You know what I mean? I didn't have the

tools to really make any sense of what

of the situation.

Cuz

you know, now I'm 7, 8, 9 years older I

can look back and go, "Yeah, well, it's

what happens when you gamble loads and

you piss all your money away and you

drink loads and you don't have anything

in your life that's going to bring you

any meaning or fulfillment." It's

obvious. But at time I didn't know that.

So, that kind of sense of helplessness

was a really big weight

on me.

And it just felt like I was never going

to be able to shift it. I think that was

the the most difficult thing. I was

like, "I don't know how I'm going to get

out of this."

You had dark thoughts.

Yeah.

The most dark thoughts.

Pretty yeah, pretty much.

That

season of your life

I've heard you kind of describe it as a

rock bottom Mhm. moment.

And it's interesting because there's so

many people that are

somewhere along that journey where

they're struggling. They've they've got

that sense of helplessness that you've

described.

Mhm.

And they're

searching for answers and I think in

some respects thinking about some people

I've spoken to recently

they

they've kind of given up believing that

they can solve this

because

it's gone on for too long.

Yeah. And

as you said, they don't even know what's

causing it. They just feel it. They feel

it intensely. I've got a couple of

friends that are really going through

that at the moment.

And I wonder I always wonder to myself

like

how does someone get from that moment

their like personal rock bottom? What

does it take to get them

start in the climb? Mhm.

Cuz that's why I that's why I'm asking

these questions. I see it in your story.

I see you going further and further and

further and further and further and

further down.

Yeah. Reaching this rock bottom moment

and then in that rock bottom moment you

have some of the the I think the darkest

thoughts anyone can have and then

something causes you to

make a decision.

Yeah.

I think

there's a few different things that went

into that melting pot.

Um

I think actually a massive thing was

like things I listened to podcasts.

Like I started I remember listening to

like Joe Rogan a lot back in the day.

And um

you like I remember the Jordan Peterson

there was a Jordan Peterson episode ages

ago. I know it's it's like a classic

thing.

But

that really kind of hit me. And that's

what I like I love listening to him now

and I know he's a bit controversial

these days and people have XYZ to say

about him. But for me like

just

having that was like my

uh guidance in a lot of ways and I think

so blessed to have

been born in this generation where

the guidance can come through

all of these online resources whereas

before you know like 20 30 years ago

maybe that would never have come for me

and maybe it 20 years later I'd still be

in the same spot. So like incredibly

grateful for that.

But then

Can I ask a question about that?

In that moment when you were 19 years

old and you were searching for guidance

do your parents know what you're going

through? No, I don't think so.

Do you think today they know what you

you were going through in that Probably

not.

No, probably not.

I I I I reckon like I don't know I

reckon my mom's probably thought about

it to be fair.

But I don't know. They don't know the

ins and outs.

What are the ins and outs that they

don't know? Well, just like the

day-to-day, you know.

And I and

I get

I'm quite like

keep a lot of things to myself a lot of

the time anyway.

So like no one really knows.

There's a real cost to that, isn't

there? There is, yeah, I guess.

There is this you know these things I

always think with these things keeping

them to yourself doesn't mean that they

stay inside it means they express

themselves in other ways.

Mhm.

Yeah, smart. Yeah, smart.

people so I

I sit with a lot of people so I I come

to learn about myself but I I've come to

one of the things I've definitely come

to learn is that keeping it in doesn't

actually keep it in it just comes out in

other ways. It makes it like a pressure

chamber and then you get your little

escapes, yeah.

Someone will say something you CAN [ __ ]

OFF.

YEAH. OR SOME PEOPLE EXPRESSES

themselves in pornography addictions or

gambling addictions. They're trying to

find other ways to ease Yeah.

the burden of having to hold on to that

all that stuff.

[Laughter]

Um so they they had no idea.

No.

If you could go back and have a word

with him when he's woke woke up on that

morning Mhm. when you were you you're

rock bottom and he's crying and he

doesn't want to go to work and he's

thinking

about dark you know dark thoughts.

If you could go back and just have a

telephone conversation with him now what

would you what would you say to him?

Oh.

I guess I do I do have empathy

for that guy. I think the thing

the thing that that I needed to hear

that which was the most which actually

got me to

forced me into action was like

I need to take responsibility for my

situation here.

So like

that version of me at 19 18 19

was very much one that looked at my

outside world and blamed everyone else

for my problems like oh it's cuz my

parents did this or my boss did this and

all of these other things

and

I didn't

need anyone else to come in and say

oh it's not your fault blah blah blah

blah I needed someone to go

that's the [ __ ] world, mate. Get used

to like do something about it or don't.

It's up to you.

So

that's probably the message that I would

give. Maybe I'd deliver it in a nice

little empathetic way

but ultimately

you know no one was going to come and

save me. It's had to be me.

And you talk about this um I was reading

different sort of

seasons of your life and there's one

moment where you're in a nightclub and

it seems like you have a bit of I don't

know whether you were on something or

you were drinking

seems like you had a little bit of a

dance floor epiphany moment

2 3 a.m. in the morning.

Yeah, so I think

it it'd been leading up to this cuz I

would I'd been

I'd been finding life really difficult

for a while and

I was

doing all these different things trying

to find something

that I could put my energy into that

would give me something positive in

return.

And

I'm yeah I remember being in the arch in

Brighton

and just being like I need I I need to

sort my life out here. Like what am I

doing?

Like proper one of them like mirror bit

pissed looking in the mirror moments

going

[ __ ] hell.

And then ran home

like 11 12 miles took me ages I was so

unfit.

Sorry, you ran home from the nightclub?

Ran home from the nightclub. Why?

I I don't know really. It was a bit

Forrest Gumpy in the way of just like I

just running kind of vibes.

At what time, sorry? Like 3 a.m. 2 3

a.m. something like this. You ran 12

miles at 3 a.m. Yeah, it took me ages.

Drunk? Yeah, yeah, I was totally off it,

yeah.

Um sleeping on the side of the road?

Yeah.

Took a little power nap in Shoreham

pavement.

But yeah, I mean so I ran that mar well

I ran that little bit and then a mate of

mine I'd been mates with for a long time

had had just started getting into

running properly and he'd signed up for

half marathon and he said to me

like come and run it. Like let's do it.

I'll train with you blah blah blah and I

think that was the moment where I was

like oh this

might be something that I can do like

I've I'm out of ideas here. You know, I

need something.

So I I literally just on a whim was like

fine.

Let's do it. Signed up.

And then he took me out training.

Um

we did the half marathon then a few

weeks later we signed up did the full

marathon.

And that process

was like a huge relief for me. It would

just

make it for the

it made me really like

it hammered in the sense that if I do

something positive

it will pay itself back to me. You know,

like that accountability of like

go and do something good. Here we go and

you can see the improvements coming week

by week by week.

And it in I think that's why I love

running so much like cuz that's it in

its simplest form. It's like you go out

run.

It's really [ __ ] And but then you keep

going you keep going and now

a month later you can run a half

marathon or two months later you can now

run a marathon.

And it was that process of going from

someone that I like I couldn't even run

around the block

and then I could run a marathon and I

was like [ __ ] This is

this I've got something here that this

is how

we progress.

That's really the word, isn't it?

Progress. That feeling of progress like

you you learn cuz that becomes a

metaphor for life like I set out to do

something and I got better at it. I

progressed. Yeah.

And I accomplished something. Yeah.

That's a that's a pretty strong

transferable idea

for the rest of your like for everyone's

life to learn that lesson.

Exactly. That's kind of what happened

for me. I

I managed to like save up some money

off the back of

run run these marathons and then

it's like stopped drinking as much

stopped I wasn't gambling anymore

and saved up a bit of money for the

first time.

And then

few months later I decided right, I've

been off the all these cleaning jobs.

I'm going to go and travel the world

with my

few grand that I'd managed to save up.

And where did you go around the world

traveling? Did a bit in Europe then went

over to Africa got to Kenya. Mhm. Did

did some I was really into my running at

this point so I was training really hard

every day. It was like my living and

breathing it.

Went to the training camp called this

village called Iten which is like home

to some of the best long distance

runners ever.

Uh Kipchoge is from there all this kind

of stuff.

Just trained with them got my ass

whipped up pretty good.

And

that just I met an Italian guy who'd

been cycling around the world for six

years. Super inspired by his story how

he was living what he was doing

and decided I wanted I want to do I want

to try and do something like that.

And I was I was pretty good at running

by now.

So then I first kind of conceived the

idea of running from Istanbul to London.

And then that that was the next I was

like all right that's what we're going

for.

I don't think many people know

that you did all this stuff

before Africa. No, I don't think so,

yeah. I don't think they do. I don't

think people I was speaking to my mates

I was like brother do you know he he

like ran he was the first person to run

from Asia to London? Mhm. And people

like no.

Yeah.

know that you ran Africa. And then all

these other things you did beforehand

but 22 years old you become the first

person to run from Asia to London Mhm.

because you ran from Istanbul to London.

Um you completed 71 marathons in 66 days

through 11 countries.

And you had no team with you. Yeah. You

basically just did it on your by

yourself and your your phone was dying

and all that stuff. Yeah.

When you told your family and other

people that you were going to run from

Asia to London Mhm.

at 22 years old what was their response?

Cuz that would be the first big

Most of them were like yeah, you're like

you're going to you're going to die.

Or like that's not going to happen.

I remember pretty much everyone being

like that. I could probably count on one

hand the amount of people that actually

thought I I was going to do that. What

did your parents think?

Can't actually remember. I don't know if

I was speaking to them very much at this

time. Oh, really? Yeah.

My I remember my little brother was the

only one that was like yeah. He's the

only one I remember being like yeah,

he's def he's going to do it.

What was that like? You know, cuz you're

on your own. Mhm. It's different to the

Africa run. Mhm. But this time you're on

your own for

that whole that whole journey across

Asia to Europe. Yeah. What's what's that

like?

It was an amazing adventure, man. It

really was. It was

it was tough though like really tough

being by myself the whole time.

I would literally run a marathon. I'd

have

a little bag with a hammock and

toothbrush toothpaste phone

I'd just

find a couple of trees at the end of the

day swing the hammock up and go again

the next day, so

yeah. Did you not need like

friends or something?

Like why? Why do you I think it's the

that a lot of people said this to me at

the start. They're like, "Well, well,

you're going to need this. You're going

to need that." I'm like, "Yeah, but why?

Actually, why?

Why can't you just sleep in a hammock

every day and then go and run a

marathon?"

Did you speak to Were you speaking to

anybody anybody back home around that

time? Not really.

You must look at that

objectively and go that is not normal

behavior.

Um And then and then from that I ask I

go, "So, what is it that's abnormal

about you?

Because you're performing abnormal

behavior. It's super inspiring, but it's

not normal. It's not typical."

That's a good question, man. I'm not

really sure.

Yeah, it wasn't normal.

Yeah, I guess it definitely wasn't

normal.

I think

I love that you're just figuring that

out now. Yeah.

Um

I think, you know, I met this I met this

Italian guy and he'd been cycling around

the world for 6 years and he showed me

his setup. He had nothing on him,

really. He had like He had basically

nothing, but he just had a coffee

kettle. That was the only thing he

really cared about.

So,

meeting these kind of people just made

me realize like

what is normal? Who even cares about

normal? I don't care. I just like

this this is normal. This guy's cycling

around.

6 years.

Why not?

Like

he seems like he's had a pretty good

adventure. I want to be like that.

In Africa, specifically Kenya, I've been

there. Certain parts of Kenya can really

teach you that you don't need much.

That's the primal.

Exactly. I think

it was just a different way of looking.

That's what the I mean I mean it's the

classic traveling like, "Oh, go

traveling, find yourself." Blah, blah,

blah. But that you know, sometimes

meeting these people from

doing the crazy stuff and from different

cultures will just make you look at

things in a different way.

You know, even I found that coming back

to London now and it's like

all of

you could I'm I'm back into the mode of

like, "Oh, you need to go and get a flat

and you need to go and live somewhere

and blah, blah, blah." And I'm like,

"Hold on a minute. Like I don't need Why

do I need to do any of this, you know?"

You must

realize upon returning to the UK how

much people are kind of programmed.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I just

I guess

the uh

the Asia to London run was the first

time I was just like

just give it a go.

What's the worst that can happen?

And at the end of that run, your father

joins you.

Um

Yeah, so my I remember

my dad

my dad came up to London and saw me. It

was He said that he was proud of me and

I remember that hitting

cuz like

he didn't say it often, but when he says

it, you know, it's probably I can

imagine your dad being similar like kind

of thing where

you know he means it when he says it and

I think that's like one of the most

powerful things a dad can say to his son

like, "Proud of you, son."

Even that makes me emotional just saying

it like thinking about it. I'm like,

"Wow."

Um

So, yeah, that was nice.

And he he ran the last day with you? He

ran like the last 5K, I think. I don't

know. Well, yeah. The last 5K. And I was

actually joined for the last couple of

days by the mate that got me into

running in the first place, which is

really cool as well.

Interestingly,

there was no followers.

No. There was no YouTube views. There

was no headlines. There was no BBC

articles.

There was nothing. Yeah.

Most people don't even know it happened.

Yeah.

Frankly, cuz you went on your own and

you didn't do all the social media

stuff. You didn't get back to the UK

to much different fanfare than you got

back to this time.

You go back to your parents' house? Mhm.

Couple of days in, everyone's looking

around going

Yeah.

What's that like couple of days in?

Yeah, I mean I remember my body being

pretty in a pretty bad way after that. I

couldn't even walk like I was really

struggling.

My body was really hurting and uh

uh

got back

into the country. I was skint cuz I'd

done all my dough on this Asia to London

run.

And then my dad was like I remember I

remember he came in and dad was like,

"What are you doing? You're lazy. Like

get a job or something."

So, I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] All right."

And then went and got How did you feel

when you heard that?

It I It was hard at time cuz I just I I

was I was

I was really struggling cuz I'd just

been away for a whole, you know, for

about a year or something. Done this big

thing. Finally finished.

And

then I was like, "Oh, that's reality

slapping me in the face again."

But yeah. You were pissed off? Yeah, I

was. Yeah. When he told you to get a

job? Yeah, I fumed. Yeah. Why? Because

I was I was just mentally just

absolutely done in and physically done

in.

And then

he'd like just been like, "Oh, I'm so

proud of you." I remember him being

like, "Oh, I'm so proud of you. You've

achieved more in your life already than

I ever have." Blah, blah, blah. Like and

it really felt like, "Oh, made a bit of

a breakthrough there."

What do you mean breakthrough? Just like

I felt like he respected me more.

Like he'd actually seen that I

I was capable of doing something

um that he thought was good. Yeah,

hadn't felt that before.

Not in that way. Not in that way.

What did you think that he thought of

you growing up?

When you were sort of 19 years old and

you're gambling and doing Uh like

probably just disappointed.

Um

Yeah, disappointed. Bit of a loser.

You eventually end up burying yourself

alive, which

Oh, [ __ ] bizarre. Yeah. That's a turn

of events I didn't I didn't see coming

in your story. So, you you do this run

at 22 years old. There's sort of a

2-year gap between then and when you

bury yourself alive. What are you doing

for those 2 years?

So,

I was just working bits and pieces here

and there, really. Um Back to normality?

Pretty much. Like I I I finished the

Asia to London run

and

in in my head from then I was like, "I

would really love to make

this kind of thing a career somehow.

Don't know how I'm going to do it, but I

would love to be able to do that."

And then

that kind of started like a 3-year or

4-year process of working out

okay, you know, if we make content then

maybe brands will sponsor that and then

I can go and do adventures

with that money.

But that it took a long time to kind of

put those pieces of the puzzle together.

Like that was never the

really what I was thinking of when I did

Istanbul to London. I

chucked a few photos up on Instagram

just really for my boys to see be like,

"I'm out here in Serbia camping or

whatever."

Um

But yeah, th- then you know, I did the

Asia to London run, figured out if we

make some content, then that's how we're

going to do it. Buried myself alive.

Pulled a car for a marathon.

Then the Africa plan is starting

happening.

You buried yourself alive. You asked

your parents if you could bury yourself

in the garden and they told you to [ __ ]

off.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that now.

Yeah. You buried yourself alive for 7

days Mhm. in underground. You basically

just dug a hole Mhm. in a tin can and

jumped in the tin can and then they they

buried you there.

Um and then eventually the plans, as you

say, you you pulled the car as well.

Which is crazy. Do you know when I I

actually found out all this stuff, which

is shocked me,

was

I don't know, a week or so into your run

in Africa.

I saw you pop up on my feed.

And then, as you know, I clicked on your

profile.

And then I clicked on the the inbox.

Yeah.

And you sent me a DM.

Yeah.

And the DM you sent me was in May the

5th. I think it was 2022. So, it was a

long time ago. It was more than 2 years

ago now.

And

paraphrasing cuz I know you Speculative

one.

No, but I bet you get these kind of DMs

all the time now.

Yeah, I I missed it. I didn't see it.

So, I didn't I didn't I didn't see it at

all, but um it's funny it's funny cuz I

actually replied to you exactly 1 year

to the day when you sent me a message. I

replied to you on May the 5th as well,

but you emailed me on May the 5th, 2022.

And in that message you said

some nice things and then you said,

"You'll probably get a lot of these DMs,

but let me explain why this one is

special and exciting."

Oh, you're killing yourself out there,

aren't you? This is your sales

background actually coming through. I'm

Now, I've removed some parts cuz I

Oh, yeah, cuz it's bad ads. No, no, no,

no, no. Just, you know, "I'm an

endurance athlete. In 2019, I was I was

the first person to run from Asia to

London. In 2020, I pulled a car for a

marathon in record time.

In 2021, I got buried alive with nothing

but water. My life streamed it for an

entire week. And in 2022,

I'm starting a mission to become the

first person to ever run the full length

of Africa." You sent me that DM 2 years

ago

um hoping that I could assist you in

some way with the the Africa leg of

that. And when I saw that, the most

shocking part was that you'd done all of

these other things Yeah, I'd never ever

heard about any of them. Yeah, yeah. And

then in that message you explained to me

cuz it was a very like long message and

you really It was a really thorough

message. You explained that this time

would be different. People would

actually know because you'd figured out

content.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'd got some

good people around you.

And you'd spent almost 2 to 3 years

thinking about this Africa run before

you even

you set off going. Yeah.

Why Africa? Why was that the plan?

Well, I knew that Africa hadn't been

done before and it's one of the few

things left that hadn't been done.

So,

that was probably one of the big

reasons. Also like

Africa's not very trav- like not very

well traveled.

Not many people tourists not many

tourists go there

and I thought it would be

like the best adventure ever.

So that's why I decided to

So you were going to run from the bottom

of Africa to the top? Yeah. How long did

you think it was going to take?

Two I thought it would take 240 days.

That was my goal. I was going to do 360

marathons in 240 days.

Didn't quite work out.

How long did it take in total in the

end?

It took 352 days.

Long time.

But there's lots of hurdles along the

way. Before you set off, I think it was

4 to 5 months before you set off maybe 6

months. Mhm. You meet a young lady

called Emily Bell. Ah, yeah.

Yeah.

Um

Wow.

Poor girl.

What a woman.

Was it 6 months before or something? No,

I actually I I met her

we first met at

one of our mutual friends birthday

party. Yeah. And I said to my friend

like why have you never introduced me to

her? She's beautiful.

And then um

then that started like a 3-month process

of me trying to convince her to go on a

date.

Good luck. It took a while but we got

there eventually. We got there

eventually.

Um actually

we had a secret Santa going and I think

one of my friends did me a solid and

kind of like rigged the secret Santa so

I got her. Oh, nice. And then I got her

uh

tickets to go to Komedia comedy club in

Brighton.

Got her two tickets so I was like well

you could like you could take me okay.

And then yes and then

that's that's when we first started

dating but

uh this Africa thing was already in the

works so it was quite complicated.

But then before I left we were like

right let's do it

and we kind of like we spoke on the

phone every day

and

mate I I was one of these people if

you'd asked me 2 years ago could that

have ever worked like 14 months away we

spent from each other

I'd be like nah. Nah, that's never going

to work. Never going to work but I think

we we spoke pretty much every day for

hours whilst I was running if I had

signal and the the the kind of stuff

that we got to speak about and really go

through in depth on

is the kind of stuff that I think in a

lot of relationships would just get

swept away in the rigmarole of the

day-to-day life.

So I'm actually super grateful for that

time.

And

like really proud of her and us for like

navigating that kind of

weird situation. Knowing that your

childhood and knowing the early model of

relationships that you experienced with

this mother and this this father didn't

seem like they always had the best time.

Little bit distant. The affection wasn't

there.

Mhm. When you go into a relationship

there must be a part of your

subconscious that still has that model

of relationships front of mind. So you

must be in some respects like I am to be

fair.

Or at least like I was until I was about

27 28 when I had my first relationship.

I had my first relationship at your age.

Um an avoidant. Ah, yeah. Yeah.

Cuz you hadn't learned you didn't have

the tools to be affectionate and to be

open. Totally avoidant. Still am.

A bit.

But

but when you met her Yeah.

you hadn't done had those deep

conversations.

Nah, I I think uh it's her credit to her

more than me.

She she kind of bring that out.

I I I didn't have the tools to go

to do any of that stuff to be honest.

You know.

She's just

I think sometimes like

I don't know. I think I just think we

fit really well like

together.

What I can do well she can't what she

can do well I can't like it works.

It's so interesting because

we got to have a conversation with

Emily. Yeah.

And the way she described you

sounded very very much like me.

[Laughter]

It's not it's funny because

I've actually listened I remember

messaging you actually about it I think.

I listened to you had a podcast with

some relationship person.

Esther Perel I remember.

and yeah like the way you were talking

about it I was like god this is like

this is hitting home here.

And we both we do that a lot sometimes

we listen to podcasts and talk about it

and like oh do this I'll do this.

I'm going to play this.

Oh god.

This is going to be awkward for you but

listen.

It's

it's word for word me.

He's not the easiest to support and

hasn't been the whole time I've known

him cuz he doesn't accept support very

like he's he's got so much better at it.

But

I'm a very like nurturing like

I want to help.

Um I want to make his life easier. What

can I do? How can I support you? But for

him support looks like um

space.

That's that's textbook me. Yeah. Support

is leave me alone. It's my love language

is

acts of service and leave me alone.

Uh that's really what it's about here.

We're talking about you have different

love languages and she goes on to

explain that um

this is much because of the way that

like your early early years you were

used to independence.

Yeah.

Um God she's smart. Let me just He's

changed so much since I first met him.

Like when I first met him I

was not thinking oh I could actually

seriously date you.

[Laughter]

Yeah, no I remember those days.

You've um you've changed. Mhm.

You've changed.

How have you changed?

I think I've definitely become more

willing to accept some I do still

struggle with that.

But I've definitely tried to

do that more. It's all I think for me

it was

like I really cared about Emily so I

really wanted to be the best that I

could for her as well

and

I just think like

the level of desire to to make that

happen was like really high so I've just

I think before

I wasn't very willing to compromise on a

lot of stuff. I was like I'm doing my

thing you either fit in or you don't see

you later whatever. Whereas with

Reminds me of me. With Emily I was like

oh like

she's special.

I really want to make this work and I'm

I'm going to have to

there's it's actually a benefit to me if

I can compromise because

she that kind of having that connection

will also bring a lot to my life and I

need and I need to I need it.

She kind of got over the fence. She got

over the wall of the castle and managed

to invade and change you from inside.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you didn't want to

let anyone over the [ __ ]

Nah. Nah.

Is that how it's been for you as well?

100%. Yeah. I met I met a person who

I cared about so much. Yeah.

It's what exactly what you said that I

was finally willing

to compromise on things. Before that it

was like as you say my way or the

highway like don't get in the way of my

dreams. Yeah.

on the bus or you're off it but not like

I'm willing to go in a different

direction in some areas of my life here.

And it's I think that's good news for a

lot of people that are avoidants because

it offers us all hope that

you know we'll we'll meet someone and

they'll be worth it um

and they'll help to rewire some of the

evidence we have from our earliest years

about what relationships are and aren't

and the freedom they make us compromise

and all of those things. She sounds like

a really wonderful person.

She is man she's great. She's the best.

I love her to bits.

They always say you strengthen a

relationship by going through something

difficult together. Mhm. And that's

exactly what happened as you ran the

length of Africa. The the really

remarkable thing was I was reading about

your preparation for this trip and to

say the least Russ you were

ill-prepared.

Yeah. You you landed in South Africa

with 10K

which is 4% of the money that you would

need to make it the whole way. I mean

there's so many other things here. You

you knew that you couldn't get through I

think it was Angola. Algeria. Algeria.

You knew you couldn't get through

Algeria because

they don't issue visas if you're not in

the country.

our visa already yeah and they don't

issue visas when you're not in the

country we'd already left so.

So you just thought [ __ ] it I'll figure

it out when we get there. Pretty much.

What is that mentality?

Because there's so many people that need

everything figured out and all the

answers and to feel that psychological

feeling of I'm ready. Mhm. You don't

seem to give a [ __ ] Frankly. I don't

think I was afforded the luxury of being

able to

you know wait really. We were running

out of money.

It was

it was now or never I

you know make it work with what you've

got or don't do it basically and I was

like I think we could do it.

Where did this 10K come from?

Well

we actually got 50K to start with from

an investor. Mhm. That it was a mate of

a mate I've managed to persuade to give

us some money to get things going. What

was in it for him? He got he's got a

percentage of like everything we make

off the back end. So he's he's done all

right. It was a risky risky risky one.

That's one hell of a Yeah. Risky one for

sure. I think he it was more like a he

just wanted to see it happen you know.

He was fellow Worthing boy.

Year younger than me. Made a bunch of

money in crypto and

yeah so he fronted the first bit of

money to get us going and 50K

was more than enough to get us going.

But what ended up happening is the the

mission got delayed more and more. We

had some people involved at the start

that kind of

long story they kind of said that these

things were going to happen blah blah

blah. Brands were going to happen all of

this stuff they were trying to make

happen none of it ended up coming to

fruition. Did they take money?

They didn't take any money no. They um

but we ended up burning through a lot of

the money

before we were supposed to be on start

line with like 50k and we ended up

months rolled by, we wasted money on XYZ

ideas, didn't come.

So we basically got to a point where I

kind of

got rid of all these people.

Start line

10 grand.

I was like, if we don't get funding

within

you know, if we don't get any kind of

sponsorship within the first month we

this is game over because we've run out

of money. Said to all my team

going to have to delay your wages

etc.

Just really tightened up.

And then I got a message from some some

bloke from Dragon's Den like two weeks

in.

Jones. Yeah. No, so mate I mean I don't

know but this is another thing that

people probably don't know that you're

like such a massive part of the story

like

you know, when when you messaged I I

remember being in South Africa.

I think it was about 10 days two weeks

in or something like this.

Got a message from you.

There was like oh like

just seen what you're doing something

like this, love it. Like if you need any

help let me know and I was like

Mate, you should have seen I rang Emily

up. I was like you'll never going to

believe who's just messaged me. Like it

was crazy. You know, obviously

Huel got sorted out, Perfect Ted got

sorted out. Two unbelievable sponsors.

Mhm. And

it's just kind of changed the whole

mission man like I can't even put into

words how grateful I am that you

messaged me that like

it was

That was like you know sometimes when

you have like a moment where you're like

wow, like

that's

like that you were that moment for me.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you did that.

I No, You did it. No, but like No, you

did. I'll tell you why you did that.

Because two things. The first thing is

you had messaged me a year earlier and I

just had totally missed it. But the

second thing is you went and did some So

you planted a seed there, then you went

and did something so awesome

that the world brought it to my

attention.

And when the world brought it to my

attention, I looked at what you were

doing.

Um I think you were two weeks roughly

two weeks in and I just thought it was

awesome. I thought you were a cool guy

and I could play out how this mission

goes in my head and I thought this is

really [ __ ] cool. I I I'm an investor

in I'm a part owner in various companies

um

and there was two companies that I am

very close to, Perfect Ted and Huel who

I felt were just perfect because

no pun intended, because Perfect Ted are

like an energy drink company

that I met on Dragon's Den.

You need energy and they're all about

positive energy and um the founders are

very much like you. And then obviously

Huel on the nutrition side of things, I

thought they were perfect for you as

well. And I messaged both of them and

they were both down instantly. I just