There's parts of your life where there's

these big question marks that I'm hoping

you can answer for me. Okay. But I want

the full truth. Now I'm nervous. Scooter

Braun is the man behind some of the

biggest stars in the music industry. And

he built one of the most disruptive

entertainment empires on the planet.

I've never really said this out loud

until right now. At this age, I feel a

lot of guilt because I worked with so

many young artists and we were all kids

moving so fast and we all wanted to

succeed so bad. And it wasn't until I

was 40 years old doing some intense

therapy that I realized I was so driven

by the fear that I wouldn't be enough.

So, let's go back. As a kid growing up,

I wanted to prove that I could be more

than the privilege I was born with. And

I created this character, Scooter,

because I didn't think Scott could

achieve these things. That mask made me

absolutely relentless faking it till I

make it. Like, I had no right convincing

Justin and his mom to be on the first

plane they had ever been on and meet me.

So, what were they betting on? My

ignorance. But it was also realizing

that so much of insecurity drives us and

makes us great. Like now that I'm here,

I can't fail because then everyone will

see that I shouldn't be here. So let's

go for it. And then had such extreme

success. The whole world thought I was

crushing it. But I had built this mask

so big. I didn't realize how far away

I'd gotten from the sky. So here I am

the top of my game. I wanted to kill

myself. I went to a very dark place and

I broke down crying because I spent so

much time trying to impress people who

didn't love me instead of realizing how

many people already

did. And I was so desperate to do the

thing I had never done before. What was

that? This has always blown my mind a

little bit. 53% of you that listen to

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to speak to, and we'll continue to do

what we do. Thank you so much.

Scooter, when I look at your life and I

look at the things you've

achieved, so much of it makes sense. But

then there's this these other parts of

your life where there's these big

question marks that I'm hoping you can

answer for me. And maybe the earliest

question mark that remains in my head is

what it is that drives you? Because from

an exceedingly young age, there was this

dog in you. there was something for me

when I was going through the research.

It looked like a chip on your shoulder

or something to prove to someone. And so

that's really where I wanted to start. I

want to understand your earliest context

so I can understand the cauldron that

scooter was shaped in and the way that

that made the boy turned to a man. Big

question, but that's the um the starter

right burning question in my head. You

know, it's funny because you started by

asking Scooter, "What drives you?"

And it took me a long time to figure out

as an adult that it was actually Scott,

my real name, that was the real driver.

And I I really created this guy scooter

when I was an adult because I didn't

think Scott could achieve these things.

So I almost like created a mask. And it

wasn't until I was 40 years old doing

some intense therapy that I fell in love

with my name again and

realized the answer to your question,

which is part of it was shame of

why with my family's

background am I getting all this

privilege? My father's a refugee from

Hungary. My mother, her dad died when

she was 11, you know, and her mother

struggled to to raise them with family

help in the Catskill Mountains. My

grandparents were Holocaust survivors.

And here I am, first generation, born in

America, and I wanted to prove that I

could be more than the privilege I was

born with. And I so I had that chip on

my shoulder. I wanted to prove my value.

I wanted to prove I was worthy of this.

Who's told you you had to?

No one. I think, you know, as a kid

growing up, I read it that way because,

you know, you're hearing the stories of

the Holocaust and my dad every night

before he put me and my brother to bed

would say, "Hey, boys, you're different.

You're special. I hold you to a higher

standard." Every night before we went to

bed and we started to really believe him

of like, we need to hold ourselves to

this higher standard. We need to do

more. The idea of failing, the idea of

looking at my parents and and not

achieving it, that's what drove me. And

and years ago, I was on a podcast,

probably 10 years ago. I was doing a

podcast with Complex with this guy,

Noah. I watched it. Do you remember the

baseball analogy? I literally wrote it

down in my notes. Well, I will tell it

again, but I will tell you on your

podcast, the difference I hold today.

Okay. They asked me what it takes to be

successful. And I made up this analogy

with baseball. And I said, "Imagine Sai

Young award winner CC Svathia at the

height of his career is in the middle of

Yankee Stadium and they invite everyone

to come hit a home run and they say you

get as many at bats as you want and

whoever hits the home run wins like the,

you know, billion dollars, million

dollars, whatever it is." And you can

imagine everyone flies in from all

around the world. People are fulfilling

for New York City. The line is crazy.

And I said, "The person who's successful

is not only the person who finally gets

up to the plate and swings and misses,

but stays at the plate." And now people

are saying, "Are you kidding me? There's

lines of millions of people waiting for

their turn and you're going to stay

there? You're going to stay there and

swing again and they swing again. And

then everyone's booing and they swing

again and they literally keep swinging

as everyone is booing them and booing

them and booing them for hours. They're

the most selfish person in the world.

You don't deserve to be here. Get off

that plate. This is not." And then they

finally hit that homer and everyone

cheers cuz oh my god they did it. And I

said that years ago and it wasn't until

recently that I realized there's one

difference in the story. I never

understood who the crowd was. I always

thought the crowd was being able to shut

out the outside noise. I always thought

the crowd was the naysayers and all the

people in your life who will tell you

you're never going to achieve anything.

And that's part of it. But the crowd,

all those people waiting in line is

actually you. That's what I never

realized till now. That that's the

difference. I always thought when people

asked me, "What drove you?" I thought it

was all the outside noise. I thought it

was the fear of failure, the fear of

letting them down, all these different

things. And it wasn't until recently

when I hit some hardships as an adult

and really had to look inward that I

realized everyone's got the same crowd

and everyone has their own issues and

everyone has their own stuff. And what

actually brings you to success and

self-worth and happiness is actually

understanding how to stand at that plate

and shut out the noise that's here. Not

the millions of people around. The

millions of people are in your head

screaming at you telling you you're not

enough. The deep deep lie from the most

confident people have it. So I'm glad I

get to finally publicly say the

difference because I've had it wrong all

these years.

And in that analogy, you talk about how

most people come up to the plate, they

swing once, they leave, they hear the

boo, they leave, they go back to their

sofa or wherever they're coming from,

some or or they swing two, three times,

everyone's telling they're selfish, and

they get, you know, oh my god. And

they're embarrassed and they leave. Mhm.

It takes a lot for someone to stand

there in the middle of the noise, shut

out the noise, and understand the

opportunity was given to me. I deserve

this. I'm going to keep swinging. Going

back to your early context, Scott. Yeah.

your dad, Irvin. Yeah. He sounds like

quite a tough guy. I was reading about

some of the things he was saying to you

when you were a kid and I was like,

"Dad, Jesus." Like when he called you a

liar. Yeah. That day and told you about

living with integrity, etc. My dad grew

up tough and it was almost like when

you're being raised by two people who

live through what they live through,

they were raising him for a world that

took everything away from them. They

were so loving, but they still raised

him that way. And then he was so loving,

but he still raised us really tough. And

I was the firstborn son, so I'm the

oldest of all our kid, all the kids. So

he was very tough on me. You're

referencing this time when I was I was

probably

14. And he uh he caught me in like a

white

lie. And usually he would punish me. And

his punishments could be severe, but

this time he just said, "Hey, come here.

I want to talk to you." It's not going

to be a punishment this time. I just

want you to know you got the gift for

Gab. You could talk your way out of

anything. And in life, I used to tell

you, if you lie, you're not going to be

successful. I want to tell you the

truth. You're so good at it. You might

be successful, but you're going to be a

liar. And I'll know you're a liar, and

you'll know you're a liar. So, do that

with what you want. And I was so beaten

down and ashamed because it wasn't like

raining down fists on me. It was just

like the guy I admired so much called me

a liar. And I walked away. I was messed

up. And I went back to him and I said,

"Dad, I want you to know I'm I'm not

going to lie. I'm going to be a man of

integrity. I'm Yeah, I could do that,

but I understand this opportunity what

you're saying." And he just looked at

me. He said, "Okay, good." And he walked

away. And it was one of the best lessons

ever, you know,

cuz he was right. Like you you can win

certain ways, but you're going to know

how do you how do you want to win? You

want to do it the right way. And um and

that that tough love, I'm appreciative

of it. You go to college. I went to

college. You went to college. Um you

started a business at college doing

events. Yeah. Well, I I started selling

fake IDs. That's what I started first.

Yeah. Yeah. I sold fake IDs cuz my

friend sold fake IDs and I thought he

had a bad business plan. So I was like,

I'll market them, you make them. Um and

and quickly uh he broke my golden rule

of not keeping in touch with people we

sold to. So, I stopped immediately

because I didn't want to get caught. And

um I walked by a nightclub and said,

"How much would you give me if I brought

people here the next week?" And that was

the beginning of my Atlanta party

promotion days. Why did that succeed?

What is it about you as you look back in

hindsight, your skill set, your ability

that made your party promotion days so

successful, which eventually sort of

parlayed into music? But a combination

of things. I think one, uh I wasn't a

threat to the freshman girls. I had a

high school sweetheart at the time. I

was very committed to her. I was a

decently cute kid and I could dance.

Okay. So, I was a good person to go out

with and have fun. So, uh that was one

thing. Number two, I was playing sports.

So, I had a lot of friends in different,

you know, teams and different arenas.

And three, I was in the right place at

the right time. You know, I uh that

first party I threw was successful. And

at that first party, I was approached by

a guy named Jason Weaver. He's an actor

and he was in this old Michael Jackson

movie I used to watch as a kid where he

played young Michael. And he came in and

he said, "This is crazy." Cuz Atlanta at

that time was very segregated in the

club scene. So it was like if you were

black, you went to a party that, you

know, a club that played hip-hop and if

you were white, you went to a club they

played techno. But I didn't grow up in

the South and I wanted to listen to

hip-hop and rock and roll. And we played

that. And when Jason came in, he was so

fascinated to see a mixed crowd

listening to hip-hop that he was like,

"You want to see how the other half

lives?" And Jason brought me to a club

called Velvet Room on Tuesday nights in

Atlanta, Georgia. It was ran by a guy

named Alex Giddawan. Alex was so

fascinated to see me in the line. He

said, "You know, let this kid in here."

And Alex taught me how to promote. He

taught me what the value of the door

actually was, what I should be getting

from the bar. And I would start moving

my parties. And I would spend all my

money that I made on Thursday nights at

the college party on Alex's Tuesday

night meeting people, meeting rappers,

meeting singers, meeting different

people, faking it till I make it and

getting people to come back and forth

between my parties. And that's how I

started. That's how I met Germaine.

That's how I met Luda. That's we all

kind of came up together.

Relationships. Why did he give you a

foot up? So many people are early in

their careers and they're having these

chance encounters, but those those

aren't converting into a relationship.

And when I look at your life, there's

people you meet along the way who end up

being really, really pivotal. And it

appears to me as an objective observer

that you have an ability to form good

relationships, loyal, lasting

relationships with

people. One, I think it's important to

pay people respect. You know, I came

from a household where you respect your

elders. And when I was coming up, I was

19. So, I was very respectful of the

people that giving me an opportunity.

And I never forgot who helped me along

the way. I think the other thing that

was a big part of my philosophy was let

your work be the reason they want to

meet you. I didn't want to be that kid

who was going, "Hey, give me an

opportunity." And by the way, sometimes

that works. But I wanted them to see

what I was doing and then say, "Come

over here." I didn't approach Germaine

Dri to work at So Deaf. Germaine heard

about me in my parties and he met me and

he said, "You have more potential than

parties. Why don't you come work for

me?" I didn't approach, you know,

Ludicrous who was coming up as a rapper

and say, "Let me do that." I didn't a

lot of people in my life. I I never

really approached them. And then even as

my life changed and I got older, I made

a lot of relationships and I have a lot

of relationships now that I've never

done business with. And people go,

"Well, you have that. Why don't you?"

And it was because I never wanted anyone

to

feel probably my insecurities. I never

wanted anyone to feel like I needed

them. I never wanted to feel like a

user. It was like my own insecurities of

how they might see me. Mhm. But I think

on top of that, I

just it was that same old thing of never

wanting to be in a position where you're

begging somebody for something. I called

Jermaine and we spoke to him and I

listened to the recording again just

before you arrived. But what Jermaine

said in that voice recording is also

pretty similar to what your dad said,

which is they both saw something in you.

You're this young kid who doesn't have

an extensive track record of decades of

work, but they're all betting on you in

some way. As you look back on your life,

what were they betting on? Cuz they all

seem pretty sure that you had something.

My ignorance. Ignorance. I think I think

uh I No one told me I shouldn't be

there.

And he offered you a job for working at

his company which meant you had to drop

out of college. I didn't have to drop

out of college. I did because um I went

to work for Germaine and now I'm

traveling all the time. I'm still

throwing parties, you know, we're

gearing up for Usher's album. We're

doing this, we're doing that. I'm

working with the Young Bloodoods,

Anthony Hamilton. Like it's and I'm 19,

20 years old. And my grade point average

went from a 3 point something to a 1

point something. And they brought me in

on academic probation. And they said,

um, you know, what's going on with you?

Is there a drug problem? Are you being

abused? And I said, "No, no, no, no. I'm

an entrepreneur. I'm building this. I

want to build a record label. I'm

working for Jermaine Dupria." You know,

and this guy's looking at me like I'm

insane. And he's, this dean looks at me

at Emery and he says, "Uh, do you know

the story of Robert Woodruff?" And I

said, "You know Robert Woodruff?" He

goes, "Yeah, the founder of Coca-Cola,

the Woodruff Center, the largest

endowment in Emery." and he tells me

this amazing story of this entrepreneur

who created Coca-Cola who is the largest

endowment at our university. And I'm so

hyped. I'm like, "This guy gets me. He

gets me. He's going to help me. I'm

going to be at the school." And just

when my hopes are really high, he looks

at me, he goes, "You know what we're

going to do, right? Cuz we're going to

stop all the nonsense. You're going to

focus on school. You're going to get a

degree because the chance of you being

like Robert Woodruff without an Emory

degree is like one in a billion."

And the moment he said it, that's when I

dropped out of school. What did your

father say? Before you ask me about my

father, I want to ask you a question.

Okay. You made a face and you paused.

Yeah. Because you have your own story of

something happening like this. I just

have a a bias. I just have a real hate

for dream busters. Yet, every great

story we have of success, people tell of

that pivotal moment, whether it be this

dean or Michael Jordan being cut by his

coach, the varsity coach when he was

younger. Yeah. We all talk about the

dream buster as a catalyst to our

success. And you know, in life, I've I

kind of feel like everything even, you

know, it's like I have this tattoo amor

fati, you know, from Marcus Aurelius.

It's the a concept love of one's fate in

Latin. And it's this concept that you

have to love the sorrow as much as you

love the joy. You have to love the pain

as much as you love the success. You

know, it's if it wasn't for that, Dean,

I wouldn't have had that chip on my

shoulder in that moment. I would just

push you on the fact that like you hate

these dream busters, but I am so

grateful for them. I'm I'm grateful for

the dream busters. However, and this is

actually something I was talking to my

friends about in our group chat this

morning. Is it okay in your view to be

driven by haters?

It's so funny because if you're only

driven by haters, no. But I think that

everything plays its role at the time.

Like um Robert Green Mhm. he talks about

this idea of embracing your dark side.

And I think that there's truth in that.

Like you know, if if you continue to

fight something that's naturally inside

of you, you're going to really struggle

with it. If you can accept that's part

of you can use it as fuel and you can

move right through it. So yes, there are

things that drive me. My curiosity is a

big driver for for where I go. My

children now are a big driver for where

I go and how I live my life. The people

I love, the joy that I find, the

introspective voice that now I can go to

when I'm meditating or, you know,

working you on

myself, but doubt from someone who

dislikes me or doubt from a hater. I can

pretend like I'm zen as much as I want.

But if I'm being really honest with

myself sometimes that's the fuel that I

need. So I think if it's if it's solely

one thing it's not healthy. But I think

if you can admit you get fuel and

different influences from different

places and don't try and be ashamed of

the one that doesn't fit in your

narrative of how evolved you are. Yeah.

You know then it's okay.

You established SB Projects I believe

after leaving Germaine when you were 24

25 years old. 24. And I read that you'd

kind of have had this plan to sign three

different types of acts. Yeah. First one

Asher Roth who's a very famous rapper.

Yeah. I wanted to sign three types of

acts and Asher fit the mold for one,

Justin for the other, and the other one

I never found. So Asher, for people that

don't know, is a very successful rapper.

Um, what was the mold you were trying to

fit? Eminem was a very big rappers, one

of the biggest rappers of all time. And

I was in college and I'm watching all

like these at the time these frat guys,

but they loved hip-hop. And I don't

think they had anyone who spoke to their

life. So I wanted a kid who could speak

to college life who had the skills to be

credible within the world of hip-hop.

Why did you think you could find talent?

What did you believe? Ignorance.

Ignorance. Okay. I'm telling you, every

aspect of my life, if we talked about

every little thing that I've been in,

you said earlier, I've been in all these

different things and probably your

listeners have no idea what the hell I

am. So, they're like, what is he talking

about? But every time I put myself in

that next

arena, it's this why not me. I had no

right contacting Asher on MySpace. I

mean, at that point, I could say, okay,

I came from so deaf. I was the youngest

vice president music because of Germaine

when I was at SOFE. I was 20 years old.

So, I had the right, you know, some

credibility other people didn't have. I

definitely could do that. But to tell

him to drop out of college and move down

to Atlanta, Georgia for be the first

artist on my record label to, you know,

find Justin in Canada and convince his

mom and him to be on the first plane

they had ever been on to come down to

Atlanta and meet me. I mean, it it was I

was 25 years old, 24 years old. Like,

these are I was insane. Like, you know,

so interesting. When we talk about

belief, we we ask if you know Scooter,

did you have belief? But in your case,

you had the lack of limiting beliefs,

which shows up the same as having there

was just like nothing. It wasn't even

because I was so driven by also the fear

that I wouldn't be enough. That back

then I would have lied. I would have

said, "Oh, I had such a deep belief in

my in my conviction that I could do

it." It was partially that, but it was

also why not me? and no one told me I

can't be here. And also now that I'm

here, I can't fail because then everyone

will see that I shouldn't be here. And

so it was this this fear, excitement,

fear, excitement, conviction. That's why

I always tell people when I meet them as

young people, I'm like, "You don't have

kids. You can starve a little bit. Your

parents want you to go the easiest route

because they don't want to see you

suffer, but now is the time when you

should be suffering. If you want to go

for it, now's the time when you don't

have anyone to support where you can

really really go for it because later on

in life, you got to think about other

people. And back then, 19 years old to

24, I'm Let's go for it.

And the second artist that you signed,

it's called Justin Bieber. Who's Justin

Bieber? Justin Bieber. You were 26 years

old when you came across Justin. 25. 25.

And he was 12. 13. 13. Damn.

You discovered Justin by watching a a

Soick video by Yeah. Well, I saw a bunch

of videos from his church his mom had

posted and the one that moved me the

most was So Sick by

[Music]

[Music]

Neil and

I

sense you walked out the door. It's the

only way I hear your voice anymore. You

must have been asked this a gazillion

times, but the the actions you then took

based on seeing a kid on on a video are

bizarre.

Yeah, they are bizarre. Yeah, I like

Googled uh the background of of the

church to look up the businesses and

then called the regions of Canada school

boards to figure out where he was cuz

his mom had a different name than him

cuz her name was Mlette, his was Bieber.

So, I went a little crazy to find him

within 24 hours. Once I saw him, I kind

of knew in person or No, I knew when I

saw online, I was like, "This is the kid

I've been looking for." And I I felt the

same way about Asher. I mean, I

relentlessly kind of pursued both of

them. I had a clear vision to like what

I could do and what he was capable of.

And it was funny cuz no one believed me.

I mean, even after we met and we did the

deal and we started working together,

literally no one believed me. And

YouTube was not a big thing back then.

So when I took him from 60,000 views and

we took him to like 60 million, now he's

like one of the biggest YouTubers in the

world and everyone's like, "Yeah,

youtubers don't turn into musicians,

though." What were the first principles

that you saw in him? Like what were the

Cuz I when I think about having those

moments where my intuition just says yes

to something. Tone. Okay.

Charisma. Um it was

like he had incredible tone and he had

soul and he had charisma. He was doing

like there was one where there was an

instrumental and he was like jumping

around and I just believed in him

instantly and then when I met him he had

even more charisma. He was funny and I

was like all right this kid let's go.

And he was an athlete so he was

competitive. He was a very special

special talent and very unique

individual and uh those were special

times. And you flew in to meet him and

his mother? No, they flew to me. Oh,

okay. I talked to her for like an hour

and a half that night and uh first plane

ride they ever went on and I remember he

was so excited that there was a fridge

inside his hotel room.

His mother

said, "Speaking of you, Scooter really

believed in Justin from day one. He put

everything on the line for

us." And and they put it on the line for

me, too. You know, they believed in a

25year-old kid. and uh we were able to

achieve some amazing things and I'm very

proud of what we achieved and always

rooting for him.

How's your relationship with Justin now?

Um not the same that it was. I think you

know these things go eb and flows. I

think there comes a point where I

understand he probably wants to go on

and and show that he can do it. I mean,

we we worked together for so long and we

had such extreme

success and I think you get to a point

as a as a man where you want to show the

world you can do it on your own and uh I

completely respect that and I think at

this point that's what he's doing and

myself and and everyone from the old

team is rooting for him. But I stopped

managing two and a half years ago and

now I'm I'm a cheerleader from the side

and you know I I want everyone that I

worked with to do well. I think

sometimes when you walk away from

management I've heard managers which I

never understood they'd be like deep

down when behind closed doors they don't

want to see them do as well without them

is almost like you know them succeeding

is is tarnishing your legacy. Mhm.

Every artist that I worked with, I

believed in them because they were

great. And if they continue to be

great, I think that's the best testimony

to that belief. So to see Justin move

forward and succeed, to see Ariana, you

know, with what's happened with Wicked

in this past year, um to see Tori Kelly,

you know, to see everybody that I've

ever had a chance to work with, to see

them go on and do great things on their

own, it's awesome.

Is there anything that these individuals

have in common at all? These people that

pain. Pain. Yeah, I think it's pain.

Personally, I think

um to be able to convey emotions on the

level that it touches people around the

world, you have to understand emotions.

And I think um I think great

artists, great performers are able to

draw from different places. And

sometimes it's joy and sometimes it's

pain. Um and sometimes it's just a

natural god-given gift.

How important is hard work? Oh, it's

very important. I think especially in

the beginning. In the beginning, you're

stepping into a pool where everyone

talented wants to be seen and you have

to work incredibly

hard to break out of the noise. So, and

by the way, I don't think that's

particular to artists or music or film

or TV or anything I've done with

entertainment. I think that's every

business I've ever been a part of. The

first three to five years of any

business I've ever built in any arena or

worked with anyone who's ever achieved

anything great, those first three to

five years are the most important.

Sounds like something I said to my

girlfriend.

[Music]

Um, it sounds like, you know, same thing

with relationship. Maybe put in the

foundation those first three to five

years and really be there together. I I

really believe that. I

think you put in that time in the

beginning and you can break through the

noise and set a foundation for

everything else.

When I think about Justin's career, he

he had a a wobble um where he was

involved in lots of sort

of uh you know, it looked like he was

going through a bit of difficulty. And I

reflect on one of my friends, Liam

Payne, and who was on this podcast and

who's sadly passed away now, but he also

around the same age was thrown into the

public eye at a very young age. He

joined One Direction, went on the crazy

crazy wild roller coaster ride that is

One Direction. And he admitted on the

podcast that he struggled, he struggled

with addiction. He struggled with lots

of pain that he was dealing with. And

his story has is a an inspiring one

ultimately, but also a tragic one in

many

respects. Why does this happen to so

many young artists, childhood stars?

You know, when you ask me this

question, at this age, I feel a lot of

guilt. Um, I feel a lot of guilt because

I worked with so many young artists and

like I told you, I hadn't taken the time

to look at myself or

um do the therapy myself until I was

older.

So I didn't understand at 25 years old,

at 27 years old, at 30 years

old

that they each were coming from very

unique backgrounds of their own stuff

with their own families and their own

childhoods and growing up this way and

being seen by the whole world and being

judged by the whole world at a very

young age. And I think it's two things.

I think one, human beings are not made

to be worshiped. I think we're made to

serve. And I think that when we worship

human beings, it changes something

within us. It it messes us up a little

bit because that's not what we're built

for. And I think that can be very

confusing. And I think being able to

transcend the childhood of, you know,

people cheering your name and and

everything else at that level and get to

the place where the artists I've worked

with are where they are in healthy

relationships and and with their

families and and still working through

stuff, but like having a human

experience, I think it's a testament to

their strength. So, I think that's part

of it. I just think the nature of of

being on that stage, you know, that

young and people chanting your name and

I didn't realize that till, you know, I

got older. The other side of it is I

never understood even without me. I

didn't have that childhood yet. I

broke. And what I think also is

important is um I don't think we

can push everything. I think adversity

is important. We can't just talk about

mental health and say adversity

shouldn't exist. But I do think I

understand the importance now

of of really putting in the time to make

sure mental health is addressed and that

we have an outlet to speak to someone

outside of the crew. Um, and there's a

lot of things that I learned within

myself that I wish I knew back

then. I met those One Direction kids

when they started. They came to LA and

actually the whole group cuz Nyall

reached out to me. They came to my house

to hang out in the backyard when they

were first starting before they really

blew up, like their first US visit to

LA. And I met Liam back

then. And I met the excited young kid

with the with the

voice. Yet each one of them has had a

different experience. Each one of them

has had a

different story of perseverance and

tragedy. Um, and that's the thing. It's

like with kids like you just never know

what the cocktail is going to make of

life. Um, and I

think I think you know that idea of

we're not made to be woripped. That can

play funny things on the mind.

The brain isn't even developed until

you're 25, they tell me. So I don't even

know if mine's developed at 43. But I've

sat here with so many neuroscientists

that have said that to me and it and

also addiction scientists that say the

brain is still learning and building it

sort of like dopamine receptors and

stuff. So Liam was telling me that he he

was up on stage in front of 100 odd

thousand people in

Dubai. Huge adrenaline rush, huge surge

of dopamine. Then they drive him back to

his hotel and he was like they lock the

door and it's just me in there with the

mini bar and then the the next day it's

the exact same thing. Stage, car, hotel

and without the stage you were looking

for that dopamine hit. Yeah. No, it's

it's

uh like I said, it's I'm very proud

of the job that we did and how much we

cared and how much the team cared for

all the years that we did

it. But it doesn't mean I don't look

back and wish that I knew what I know

now. How would you have been different?

I think I would have had a therapist on

the road for all of us.

like you know I think that's the biggest

difference. I think I would have slowed

down all of us. I think I made would

have made every single one of us stop

and do that hour, you know, because we

were all kids and we were all moving so

fast and we all wanted to succeed so bad

and we all

wanted the excitement and we wanted to

make kids dreams come true and bring

them down from the upper decks to put

them in the front row and, you know, to

help Justin get that number one and, you

know, to help Ariana do this and we all

wanted it and we we're excited and we

were doing something that was so unique

and everyone in the world was so excited

for us, you know, oh my gosh, you guys

are a part of this. This is so

cool. I didn't

know I didn't know to go inward for the

dopamine

hit. And I wish I would have known that

and been able to share it back then.

when Justin ultimately said that he

wanted to kind of go it alone and do it

himself. Does that hurt? No, not at that

point I think I was also at that point,

you know, at at that point it had been a

couple years where I knew I wanted to do

something else and I I wanted to find

out who I was. I wanted to experiment

with, you know, a different career and

we were both communicating enough with

each other. Everyone the writing was on

the wall. How many clients Oh god, that

we would know a lot. Cuz when I was

doing my research, I was like, "No,

surely not." Karly Ray Jeepson and then

um Martin

Garrick's Kanye.

Yeah. Can you give me the top 10 off the

top of your head that you worked? I

would never say a top 10. A good manager

knows how to do that, but I got I got to

work with a lot of incredible artists a

long time. I mean, from Zack Brown band

to Black IPs to Justin to Ariana to, you

know, Martin Garrick's we signed um

while he was at Club Med with his

parents. We contacted him because he had

the song Animals and we heard it. Um to

Dan and Sheay to I mean just to so many

over the years. It was pretty incredible

to be a part and so close to so many

incredible stories, you know, and to

see, you know, going to a coffee shop to

see Tory Kelly sing to seeing her walk

on a Grammy stage. It just I got to see

really incredible moments in people's

lives to you know Demi telling me I want

to sing the national anthem at the Super

Bowl you know and showing me a tweet

that she wrote this years ago to seeing

her actually perform you know you know

uh at the Super Bowl you know so

it's it's just been a really cool

experience but I got to see it in so

many different arenas and and you're

only there for a flash right you have

this little tiny small moment here a

little tiny small moment

But to get to witness so many different

rides, it's a really cool thing. And I

remember as a kid, I heard this great

saying, don't just read stories, try to

be a part of them. Try to be a story.

And I think I've always tried to take

that into my life. Crazy. Crazy. Why? I

was I was there was a second ago when

you were talking and I was just I

stepped into your body for a second and

I ran the highlight reel of your life

just as Justin's um sort of manager and

I was thinking God like the places you

must have been and the things you must

have seen just as his manager let alone

working with all of these other great

artists. It's not just a lifetime of

experience. It's multiple

lifetimes of fortune to get to even see

those things. I met a guy years ago and

um I'll name drop here. So I I got

invited to meet Charlie Munger. Oh yeah.

The investor. Yeah. And everyone was

asking him questions about business and

I asked him a question about life. And

afterwards his guy contacted me. He

goes, "Charlie liked your question. He

wants you to meet this other guy that he

really likes who's a brilliant

businessman. And I meet this other

gentleman and he tells me he's a

statistician by trade. And the reason

he's excited to meet me is cuz people in

my world who are part of so many

different stories live in dog

ears because they get to be a part of

kind of so many other people's things.

Yeah. Um but it's uh it's a unique

thing. But I told you

it the biggest lesson I learned from all

of

it is that at one point in my life I

received so much praise and then the

next

moment without me expecting it I

received so much

hate.

And on the other side of all these

experiences I've come to learn that both

were not deserved.

The people who were praising me did not

know me and the people who hated me did

not know me. And it's like one of my

favorite uh I saw Tom Hanks say this on

like an actor's table one time. He goes,

"This too shall pass." You remember

that? Yeah. Yeah. It's so great. He's

like, "You think you're killing it? This

too shall pass." He's like, "You think

it's going to be hard? This too shall

pass." Like it's true. So what do you

anchor in then if so much is transient

at this point in life generally? What

what does one anchor in? If everything

is transient, if you know this two, you

don't have kids yet. I have a major

anchor and three kids. Major anchor.

What if you don't have kids? If you

don't have kids, that's when you should

definitely do the selfwork cuz your

anchor's you. And and the truth is I've

really gotten to a beautiful place of I

fully expect to be misunderstood in the

future. I expect tomorrow something can

happen where especially because my life

has been somewhat in the public eye. You

get misunderstood all the time. People

make up stories. They twist things.

Someone's hurt. It comes out this way,

that way. I could get pulled into this

stuff. It's happened to me already. And

so, I've come to terms with that. What

I've realized is being on the other side

of it already happening to me. All it

does is end up making room for something

else. So, for me, what anchors me

is I no longer think I'm in control, but

I think I'm participating in one hell of

a game. I can't control the outcome. I'm

Steph Curry and LeBron could be at the

height of their game, but even they

can't control the game. they can

influence it. And so that for me it was

like the first half of my life was I'm

manifesting. I'm manifesting. I'm doing

this that youthful energy. And then you

turn 40 and this stuff happens and you

start the other half of your life.

You're like, you know, Michael Singer, I

need to surrender. You know, you had

their surrender experiment, you know,

like everything surrender. And then I

realized there's a balance. There's this

balance

of I'm participating in an incredible

game and I can bring what I bring to the

table and I'm not going to be able to

control this game, but maybe I should

start enjoying the game a little bit.

I'm out here. I'm participating. That's

pretty freaking cool. And I

think that is what anchors me at this

point that I have no idea what the next

5 to 10 years of my life are going to

look like. I used to think I did. Now I

know it can change like that. And I

think I'm excited for love in the

future. I'm excited for adventure. I'm

not looking forward to the pain, but I

know if it comes, there's a reason for

it.

So, tell me about a an artist that you

believed in. You don't have to name

them, of course, but an artist you

believed in you were wrong about

something you really just your first

principles were off. And in hindsight, I

had an

artist who

was honestly maybe the most talented

artist I ever signed. His name was

Spencer Lee.

And Spencer Lee got brought to me by a

buddy of mine named Freddy. Uh, and we

did a deal for Spencer and Dave

Appleton, who I told you about, my buddy

was trying to handle in management. And

Dave started calling me saying, "Hey,

there's some real addiction issues here

and we're really struggling." And we put

him into rehab. And then he wrote one of

the most incredible songs, River

Water. River

Water. Send away my worries, please.

[Music]

River, take me

down. Show me the dreams that I never

[Music]

found about addiction. And when he got

out, we thought, okay, he's going to be

clean and everything great. We made this

video and we started getting going. We

made the Spencer Lee Band and we started

putting him out there like paying for

everything to kind of get it going and

he started doing festivals and we

started getting phone calls of like,

hey, people are coming to see this

insane talent with this voice

and he went uh back to drugs and

um he overdosed last year and uh he's no

longer with us. And we got the news cuz

his grandmother, who's the sweetest, she

called to say thank you for trying and

everything else. And that was the love

of her life and she lost him. And

um that one I got wrong

because I thought, you know, maybe if we

get the records right, if we get the

music, if he gets on the road, you know,

he gets out of rehab, like, you know,

this would be enough. It's one of the

biggest tragedies cuz I I can't tell you

how good he was. I mean, he just a

special special talent. You listen to

this guy's records. Sometimes I always

say I want to like reach out to his

family and be like, let's just release

the records like the ones that I have

that the world's never

heard and I, you know, I all the money

should go to, you know, a cause, you

know, to help people in a similar

situation. I wish we could do that. I'd

love to get permission to do that. Um

cuz he was one of the most special

talents I ever came across. They don't

want to release the records.

It's complicated.

Last week I was in New York interviewing

one of the world's leading addiction

experts. And if for anyone that hasn't

been through addiction, it's a very

confusing thing to observe. Because as

an onlooker, you just go just stop that.

You're self-destructing. But if you've

had friends that have dealt with

addiction, you realize that it's not an

attempt to self-destruct. It's like an

attempt to

Yeah. Yeah, it's like it's maybe the

last attempt to do the opposite to

survive to survive from something. When

I was dealing with addiction with

someone I managed, um someone I really

respect told me about Alenon, uh Alanon

is for a support. It's like AA but for

the families and they recommend I go and

I went to two Alanon meetings and it was

very helpful at the time and one of the

things I learned there was one this

concept of it is not your fault. you

this is not about you that you have to

love them where they're at. You can you

know but the biggest thing I really

learned was be a rock you know like this

person said to

me home doesn't move around home is a

constant place that someone can come

back to. If someone beats addiction it

is because of them. You know they've

made that choice and they deserve the

credit. But if you want to be helpful

this person said just try to be a

constant place. They know that no matter

what at the end they can come back and

they and you'll be waiting.

Understanding your story, you stuck

around with Justin when he went through

his his difficult times and people were

calling for you to drop him and

to maybe move on. Yeah, I think it was

an interesting time. But like I said, if

someone beats that, they deserve the

credit. So I don't I don't deserve any

credit in that. He does. You ended up

posting that post on your Instagram

which sent a ton of headlines around the

world saying that you were quitting

music management. 23 years after 23

years. There was a little bit of a

question mark though because I think you

referenced in something you'd posted

that part of your inspiration or a

catalyst was a particular

artist had decided that they wanted to

go their own way. Yeah. Who was that? I

prefer not to say like there's a bunch

of legal stuff around that everything

else but uh she

uh she informed me and I respected the

hell out of it that she was she felt

that way and uh but I had had that

conversation with others too and and

um I wrote I mean I wrote it all in 23

years. The reason I posted that at the

time was I had already made the decision

a year prior but I'd never talked about

it. And you know, when you're running a

big company, there's all these, you

know, legal things. And we had to wait

till everything was in order and then I

could say it. And um and they were like,

"Well, you've already been out of it for

a year. Why say it now?" And I just felt

I need to say it for me, but I also need

to say it so I hold myself accountable

not to ever go back. Okay. And I, you

know, it was way too long. It was like

10 slides on Instagram. No, it was

incredible. But it was uh I appreciate

you saying that, but it was from the

heart. And I remember waking up, posting

it, and then just like falling down

because I was like, "Oh my god, like

this thing I've been doing since I was

19 is now over." And what I wrote in

there is the truth. My entire adult

life, that's all I had known. So not

being in that situation, I didn't know

what a normal adult life was like. I

didn't know you could have a weekend.

Like I didn't know, you know, like

that's what it was. I was on call all

the time for 23 years. And it wasn't

one, it was a lot. And um finding out

what a normal adult life was like was

pretty wild to me and also really

interesting. But I don't I had some of

the most incredible memories and I'm

very grateful. But if you remember, do

you remember the Barry Gordy quote at

the end? No, I don't. Barry Gordy is the

founder of Mottown Records. Barry Gordy

is a kid from Detroit. Michael Jackson's

theater play. Barry Gordy. Correct. Yes.

So before Barry Gordy, black musicians

would make incredible music and a white

person could come along and just cover

it and make it

theirs. And Barry Gordy took that back

and gave us Mottown Records and changed

the entire music industry. And I was at

a dinner and Barry Gordy was placed next

to me and I was just like freaking out.

Barry Gordy sit next to me and we start

talking and this is years

before he said, "I'm going to tell you a

story and you're going to need it one

day." And boy was he

right. And he said, "You know, do you

know what the Mottown 25 was?" And I

said, "Absolutely. It was the first time

Michael Jackson did the Moonwalk, Diana

Ross." And he's like, "Oh, you really

are a Mottown fan." I was like, "Yeah."

And he said, "Well, do you know I didn't

want to go?" I said, "What?" He goes,

"Yeah, I didn't want to go." At the

time, Michael had left for CBS records.

Diana had left for CBS records and

everyone was saying that I took their

publishing and I was like the bad guy

for all these people that I had

supported and lifted and like I was so

angry and I didn't want to go. I said,

"What changed?" He goes, "My family made

me go." And I said, "Yeah, cuz I

remember you were in the balcony and I

kept cutting to you." And he goes, "You

know, the first I get there and Diana

Ross is hosting. Michael's going to

perform. He's the biggest thing in the

world. I'm I'm mad." But as the night

went on, I suddenly realized little

Barry from Detroit would have lost his

mind knowing this was coming. He said,

"Young man, it will never end the way

you want it to, but it doesn't mean it

didn't

happen." And I didn't know how much I

needed that in the years to come. You

can plan it. You can try and control it

as much as you want, but Barry God was

right. It will never end the way you

wanted unless you're Derek Jeter on the

Yankees, but or you know, you're messy.

But um but most of us it's not going to

end the way we wanted. However, it

happened and how cool is that? Like how

cool is that that like we get to do this

and get to have this life and I thought

that's the way I wanted to end 23 years

because the me stopping managing and

ending managing and it didn't end the

way I necessarily wanted. I would have

wanted a giant concert where all the

artists come out, we celebrate

everything we did together. and ended

pretty abruptly of like, "Oh, this is

it." And some want to leave and some

want to stay and yeah, I'm done. I don't

want to do this

anymore. And some people understood it

and other people didn't. But it happened

and no one could ever take that away.

Did you ever feel betrayed? Oh, of

course. But I'm sure that goes both

ways. Like as much as I felt betrayed,

like music business can be

heartbreaking. Management can be

heartbreaking. If you watch David

Geffin's documentary, he says uh

management is like move the mountain

over here and they say it was supposed

to be there, you know, but like but at

the same time it must be heartbreaking

the other way. It's such an

interdependent relationship and it's

such I don't I you know the people

always say stay on your side of the

street. I try to do that. It's easier

for me to move on with my life and be

happy by staying on my side of the

street. So yeah, I've definitely felt

betrayed a hundred times. I've

definitely felt misunderstood so many

times, but I also try to give empathy of

if someone is doing this to me, they

must be hurting for some reason. And

maybe I did play a role in it, even if I

don't know I did, you know.

So, do you feel betrayed? Yes.

Especially in a job of service. Yeah.

But yeah, you're right. We all do have a

preconception of how how the run will

end. Man, we're all the protagonists in

our own story.

Now that there's been some space between

that decision. Yeah. 2 and a half years.

2 and 1/2 years since that decision.

Wow. 2 and 1/2 years. Wow. It feels like

it was 6 months ago. Well, it was 2 and

1/2 years for me. Okay. It's been

probably a year and a half since I

probably posted that. Okay. You've had

some space since that decision. Correct

decision? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Even high

conviction now that it was the right

thing. Yeah. And like I said, it

happened. In hindsight, it was what it

was supposed to be at the time it was

supposed to be. I think the reason why I

wrote 23 years and why I quit I wouldn't

say I quit when I retired and stopped

doing that when I moved on. How about

that? When I moved on to something else

was because what exactly what I wrote it

was I was too afraid to find out who I

was without it for so long that I

probably should have left earlier. But I

finally got to a point where I realized

either you do it now or something you're

going to have to learn the hard way

again, you know? So, it was time

and it was time for some of the most

amazing artists that I worked with to

also spread their wings and do their own

thing. I think B2B marketeers keep

making this mistake. They're chasing

volume instead of quality. And when you

try to be seen by more people instead of

the right people, all you're doing is

making noise. But that noise rarely

shifts the needle. And it's often quite

expensive. And I know as there was a

time in my career where I kept making

this mistake that many of you will be

making it too. Eventually I started

posting ads on our show sponsors

platform LinkedIn. And that's when

things started to change. I put that

change down to a few critical things.

One of them being that LinkedIn was then

and still is today the platform where

decision makers go to not only to think

and learn but also to buy. And when you

market your business there, you're

putting it right in front of people who

actually have the power to say yes. and

you can target them by job title,

industry, and company size. It's simply

a sharper way to spend your marketing

budget. And if you haven't tried it, how

about this? Give LinkedIn ads a try, and

I'm going to give you a $100 ad credit

to get you started. If you visit

linkedin.com/dary, you can claim that

right now. That's

linkedin.com/diary. You sold your

company for $1.1 billion. That's what I

read.

You can't confirm or deny, but that's

publicly traded, so I can confirm, but I

don't like talking about it. Okay. You

sold your company for $1.1 billion,

which I don't think people realize. It's

a [ __ ] lot of money.

Um, at 39 years old, roughly, I was

about to turn 40. You talk about laying

on the beach. Yeah. With your belly out.

Yeah. I mean with a significant amount

of money in your bank account without

the

same job that's sort of demanding your

time seven days a

week. A lot of people are scared of

that. Lot not not the money but the gap,

the uncertainty, the space.

Honestly, the timing of when it happened

for

me, I was in such a place, like I said,

of surrender that I really wasn't

looking at it as like achievement or

money or something like that. I more

looked at it as what are you going to do

now? Are you going to try and control?

Are you going to participate? Like I

told you earlier and I started to just

be curious for the first time instead of

I love this idea of a competitive mind

versus cur a curious and creative mind.

Mhm. A competitive mind is what I had

and it is where I was of there's always

something finite when you're

competitive. You know, it's going to

finish. There's going to be an outcome

and then what? But when you're operating

from a curious and creative mind,

there's no

end. You can just continue to create.

You continue to build. And I want I want

to be in that place in my life now of

what how big can I think? I saw this

Jeff Bezos interview the other day and

he just said one of the biggest curses

of an entrepreneur is not thinking big

enough, you know, and I think, you know,

think big. You know, you only get one

ride around this thing. Think big, have

fun, love your friends, love your

family, dance, laugh, cry, you know, do

all the things and get to know yourself

more and more every single day.

Just before that time, we have this

whole Taylor Swift incident. What

happened?

Is this the moment you're talking about

where you received Bad Press? Oh, Bad

Press. Yeah. Yeah. That was That's the

When I bought Big Machine, I thought I

was going to work with all the artists

on Big Machine. I thought it was going

to be like an exciting thing. I knew

that Taylor, she and I had only met

three times, I think, in my life, three

or four times. And one of the times it

was years earlier. It was really a great

engagement. She invited me to private

party and we we we respected each other.

We had a great engagement. In between

that time since I'd seen her last, I

started managing Kanye West. I managed

Justin Bieber. I knew she didn't get

along with them. I had a feeling, this

is where my arrogance came in. I had a

feeling she probably didn't like me

because I managed them, but I thought

that once this announcement happened,

she would talk to me, see who I am, and

we would work together.

and the announcement came out and I'm

calling Scott Borchetta and saying,

"Hey, send me her number. I'm I just

talked to Thomas Rhett and he's excited

and I just talked to, you know, uh,

this, you know, this person and they're

excited and I'm calling, you know,

Florida Georgia line next and oh, and

then this Tumblr comes out and it says

all this stuff and I was just like

shocked."

Um,

and it's it's been five, six years. I

don't need to go back into it, but what

I can tell you is everything in life is

a gift. Having that experience allows me

to have empathy for the people I worked

with who I would always say, "Yeah, I

understand." But I never knew what it

was like to be on the global stage like

that. I never knew what criticism like

that felt like. And like I told you, the

biggest gift that I got from that was

understanding that all the praise I had

received up until that

moment was not deserved. And all the

hate I got after that moment was not

deserved because none of these people

knew me. Yeah. She didn't know me. This

person didn't know me. This person who

met me three times, they didn't know me.

I can show respect for all of them cuz I

don't know them. So, I can love them

where they're at. But the gift of

pain was awareness.

And the other part I was going through

very something very personal shortly

after I was going through the divorce,

my marriage and all these different

things. And it just felt like one after

another. But I look back at those didn't

things didn't happen. I I really think

they're all gifts cuz when when

something's fair, you don't respect it.

When something happens to you that you

feel is fair, you're just like, "Oh, I I

I deserve that." And you move on. You

feel justified because you saw it

coming. When something happens to you

that feels deeply unfair and you can't

fix

it, then you really got to look at

everything and realize the role you

played in this or maybe this or that or

who do you want to be or how

so I'm grateful. But how does one

contend with an unfair world? And I use

the word unfair as well because, you

know, we've got investigative re

researchers here who looked through

everything relating to that particular

deal. And then we also looked at what's

written on the internet. And there's

this great disparity between what

actually happened and what people say

happened. Yeah. And there's actually I

think there's a documentary out there

which goes into it in great detail which

Andrew Schultz was talking talking about

on a podcast which I saw. So I looked at

that documentary as well. I mean look,

I'm grateful for a couple things. One,

my kids were really young when it

happened, so they didn't feel it as

much. Yeah. It was very hard at the

time. It was hard on the marriage. It

was hard on our family. You also

threats. Yeah. But I also don't know

what was being said on the other side,

you know, cuz I never got to have the

conversation, you know. So, I think when

people aren't communicating and refusing

to communicate, a lot of things can get

misconstrued and you, you know, I don't

want to hold any hatred or like I we

everyone moves on, you know. So, yes, I

appreciate you saying that. I appreciate

you actually doing the research, but for

me, I choose to see it as a gift. I

choose to see it as being able to have a

perspective that very few people in the

world have knowing what that's like, of

feeling that on a global level. Pain.

Yeah. And also just what does that mean

in reality when you It just felt unfair.

It felt like and but so much but of

course of course it happened to me right

of course because here I was thinking my

value was from all this praise you know

and I and everything was me making sure

that I was living up to it and then this

happens and it's unfair and I can't

control it and of course the universe

was like screaming at me like God's

screaming at me like hey wake up you're

not in control you can't navigate all of

this you don't get to decide what your

legacy is and you you just get to decide

who you are on a daily basis and who you

choose to see in yourself and how you

treat the people that love you and the

people you can actually interact with.

Surrender,

but surrender and participate, you know,

that's the big thing for me. It's more

than just surrender. It's surrender and

participate and just enjoy the ride.

That's why I got the tattoo. You know,

it

was I can't worry about everyone's niece

being mad at

me, you know, like, you know, it it's

what I got to do is is show up for my

niece, you know, and I got to show up

for my friends and my family. And I wish

everyone involved across the board,

whether I know them or not, nothing but

good wishes. When I say specifically

that pain, people don't like think about

how many people on earth have

experienced such a thing. And if you if

I could be a fly on the wall that is

actually just has CCTV for eyes and I

was watching you at that moment in time

just for seven days I got to watch

Scooter, what would I have seen?

Like I said, at that point I hadn't

really done the work. Okay. Um, so

resistance, resistance, trying to

navigate it, trying to understand it,

trying to um figure out how to fix it.

And then I couldn't, but then I did

financially like I couldn't fix the

relationship that I didn't have, but

then I was able to figure out, okay, you

know

what, we will sell it. You know, in a in

a world of streaming, re-records will

only help the old catalog as much as

they help the new catalog. both will get

a bump. I presented that I showed you

know how everyone can be a winner here

and I was able to sell the catalog and I

don't want to go into too much detail

but I but I offered it. It's now come

out very factually that I did offer it.

There's evidence of that multiple times

in that process. They said no. I sold to

someone else and I washed my hands of it

and moved

on. And I actually sometimes look back

to that and I go the universe was trying

to teach me something and I navigated

out of it. I found a way

out. So then the universe went, "Oh man,

we tried to tried to give you a warning

sign. We tried to like you're you're

sailing by in the Titanic and we're

waving like iceberg."

And then the universe said, "Okay, you

really didn't pay attention and you

still aren't doing the work.

Marriage." Cuz that one got me. That one

got me to pay attention. Losing my kids

50% of the time, that one changed

everything.

and the

world that still couldn't move me. I was

still able to figure out the

chessboard, but my kids and my

marriage, that one rocked me and woke me

up. What's really crazy is when I told

you I did this Hoffman

process, I won't tell you the process

because you're not supposed to, but I

can tell you at the end of the week, can

you give it context for anyone that

doesn't know the the Hoffman process is

is one week, no phone, no email,

um, intense work on your early childhood

to understand why you are the way you

are and give you tools to go out in the

world and understand yourself. The

reason I

went October of 2020, my marriage was

falling apart. The whole world thought I

was crushing it. Ariana's crushing it.

This Justin's cr all these people like

we're on

fire.

And I had a suicidal thought for 20

minutes where I was like, if my marriage

is going to fall apart, I'm not going to

be with my kids all the time. I can't

control this. I'm not going to be this

perfect image that I've presented to the

world. And if I can't be this perfect

image, I don't want to be here. And it

went to a very dark place. And after 20

minutes, I said, "What the hell was

that? That's not me. I would never leave

my kids. I don't want to like leave

anybody. Like, what was that? And the

next morning, I was on the set of a

video shoot. And a friend of mine called

and he said, you know, what's going on

with you? And I told him I told him

about that night before. He called me

back with another friend and they said,

you need to go to Hoffman. We did it. It

changed our life. They told me that they

could get me in in two weeks cuz there

was a cancellation October 24th and that

was the release of Ariana Grande's

Dangerous Woman album. It was the

busiest week of the year for me at work.

And I started laughing in the parking

lot of this video shoot. And she goes,

"Do you want us to pick another week?" I

said, "No." I said, "I've spent my whole

life pursuing these things, doing this,

choosing this, choosing scooter,

choosing that life, choosing the

clients, and I'm the top of my game.

Yet, I wanted to kill myself last night.

Something's got to change." And I chose

to go to that place instead.

And the hard stuff actually came after I

got out of Hoffman. You know, I ended up

going through a divorce. I ended up

going through all this different stuff.

But I never was depressed again. And the

most interesting thing that happened on

the other side of it is six years ago, I

was biggest manager and the perfect

marriage and you know, everything I

touch turned to gold and there was no

negative press about me ever. Six years

later, I'm divorced. I don't manage

anymore. I've had negative press and I

couldn't be

happier. It doesn't mean it doesn't eb

and flow, but I get to be the dad I've

always wanted to be and the friend I've

always wanted to be. And it doesn't mean

that things aren't going to go, you

know, be hard and I'm going to say

suffer more things and go through them,

but I'm in a place that I understand a

morati. It's like everything is a gift

and I'm being super long- winded, but

that's the story. that phone call the

day after that to your friends. Yeah.

Did you tell him the truth on the phone?

The full truth? Yeah, I did. And what

was that full truth that I had the night

before thought about, you know, just

shutting it all off. It wasn't even an

idea that I wanted to die. I just wanted

the noise in my head to go away. I

wanted the failure, the disappointment,

the fear. I was going to fail in my

mind. I couldn't control it. I'd always

been able to navigate out of failure and

head towards success. A pit stop. But I

had left what I found at Hoffman. I told

you is my name, the inner child, the

Scott. I had built this mask so big. I

wanted to feel like me again. And I

didn't realize how far away I'd gotten

from that. Building up this armor,

building up the mask. You know, I I want

to tell you something funny. I usually

don't say names in these things, but I

want to give him credit cuz I think it's

hilarious. Michael Rapino is the CEO of

Live Nation. He's an amazing guy. I

think he's one of the most impressive

people in the entire entertainment

industry because he wields so much

power, but he also empowers other people

so

well. And after the divorce, after, you

know, the big machine and and stuff that

happened with that, all these different

things. And you know what Michael told

me? He goes, "I like you a lot more now

cuz you seem human."

you know, and he told me, he was like,

"Before," he's like, "Nobody goes on

like it's like this." He's like, you

know, I just didn't, he goes, he goes,

"I didn't think you were real. I thought

you were full of shit." And he was

right. I mean, it I didn't know myself

cuz I had no reason to do so. And it

wasn't until I had some real hardships

and real pain and real scares and real

rock bottom moments that I started

looking at myself and started figuring

out who I was. And then everyone got to

know me. my best friends since I was 11

years old. They're the people I hang out

with the most. Um, two of them live out

here, Mike and V. And I hang out with

them all the time. And people who know

me, they know these guys because they've

been my friends since we were 12 years

old, 11 years old. And Mike and Vuke

told me at 40 years old when I was doing

this work, "We've known you since you

were 11 and this is the most we've ever

known you."

And I'm not surprised or insulted

because they say you haven't changed but

we didn't know you because I was always

even to them

presenting what I thought they needed me

to be

perfect and then I broke and then I said

this happened and this happened when I

was a kid. This was going on and this

was and they were like we love you and I

really became one of the boys for the

first time in my life. I became one of

the boys because the boys became

vulnerable. I thought it was the

opposite my whole life. I thought you

had to be cool. You had to be tough to

be one of the boys. And it was funny

because they didn't all the

achievements. Not only did they not give

a [ __ ] about I probably lost touch with

them more so. And when everything fell

apart, they were the ones that were

there, the ones who knew Scott, the ones

who didn't care about any of it. And

I've never really even said that out

loud to this extent until right now. And

I'm actually glad I get to say on here

both their names because

they

damn they picked me up and in a really

really tough time and a time where I

couldn't even look at my own brothers

cuz I was too

ashamed and

um and I never felt like one of the

guys. Like I felt like I had those

friends, but I just couldn't let them

all the way in because I felt, well,

maybe I'm smarter, maybe I'm this, maybe

I need to be perfect. And it wasn't

until I really hit rock bottom that I

realized that they always had my back

and I'd made all these stupid ideas in

my head

and they

were they were there and they weren't

there for Scooter, you know, they were

there for Scott. And I see you getting a

little emotional too because you

probably have the same type of friends.

So I'll I did it so you can do it too.

What are their names? Well,

Michael, Ash,

Dom, Anthony, and Oliver. But they are

they're the constant. They're the

they're there through everything. The

up, the down, the up, the down, the up,

the down again. And they don't give a

crap about any of this [ __ ] about

anything. In fact, if your friends are

like mine, they're brutal about this

stuff.

My friends rip me. Like if people saw

the text messages between us, they would

think we hate each other. Um, but we

love each other deeply. And and the best

part about the messages is the random,

"Hey guys, I love you." You know? I It

happens all the time. I'll get a phone

call, I'll pick up, I'll just see Paul.

Hey brother, I love you. Just want to

call and tell you. I'm really grateful.

Like I have so many different people I

can name. And what was really

interesting

is before all this happened, I don't

know if you can relate to this,

but I spent so much

time trying to impress people who didn't

want to love

me instead of realizing how many people

already did.

I was just thinking what a great shame

it is that the amount of units of energy

we exert on as you said like the

external like the audience whereas when

you ask me who would be there for me

irrespective of what was going on in my

life I can name them and then I ask

myself how much energy and effort am I

putting into these relationships and I'm

embarrassed about how much energy and

effort I'm putting into these

relationships I'm like embarrassed by

it and they'll still be there. Yeah.

They don't care. Yeah. Yeah. And and

that's the best part because when you do

start putting your energy it becomes

even more fun.

It's really it's really um it's really

difficult for me to understand and this

is my naivity. The part that's difficult

for me to understand is you family meant

so much to you. Didn't don't you have a

tattoo that says family?

First one I was 18. You got a tattoo at

18 about your future family. Correct. So

family has been this like dream and

ambition of yours. Mhm.

So, it's surprising to me as someone who

was naive in this

context that some it had to be

threatened for you to care enough to No,

I cared. I just uh childhood trauma is a

hell of a thing, man. Yeah. It's um and

we all have it. That was the thing. The

reason I didn't think I had it is

because I had friends who, you know, had

parents who were alcoholics. I had

friends who had parents who this. So, I

always thought, you know, both my

parents are here. They love me. Like,

the stuff I dealt with, that's not real.

you know, I come from an immigrant

family. Like, we can deal with this.

Like, we're strong. You know, that's not

real. And what I realized

is everyone has trauma. That's the human

experience. And the faster we value our

own trauma and stop trying to downplay

it because we don't think it equals

someone else's, the more we can work on

ourselves. Because all you get to do is

work on yourself. You don't get to work

on the other person. Yeah. Like, you can

really only work on yourself. You can

help the other person, but the work

that's only here.

And I think that I saw my life as

perfect. So why change anything?

And that's why you're smiling.

Stop calling me out. Yeah, you're

smiling. So true because you see your

life as perfect and screaming at you.