one of the things that i say um is the

most courageous thing you can do

above all bravery is

this is the personal life that i really

keep to myself you know i've spoke a lot

about it today which i've never spoken

about before

[Music]

ant middleton and is an adventurer

a military vet a television host an

author an entrepreneur

and one that's become highly highly

respected as an authority when it comes

to things like survival and endurance

and leadership techniques

and due to his experiences as an elite

special

force member he can talk about these

things in a way that nobody

nobody else can and has very very

recently been at the center of a huge

media storm where he was quote unquote

cancelled with his biggest show today

sas judea's wins being axed by channel 4

after

five years and the broadcaster came out

and said that anne's views and values

weren't aligned to theirs this is his

first

in-depth conversation that he's recorded

since he was quote unquote cancelled

i've watched countless amounts of

interviews that ant middleton has done

but the side of ant that you're going to

hear today is one that even he admits

himself

that he has never fully shared before

i'm going to say it

this podcast lifted a ton of weight off

my shoulders and answered maybe the most

important question about life that we

all must ask ourselves

if we are going to be happy and if we're

going to be successful

and if we're going to be free and

thank you for your honesty without

further ado

i'm stephen bartlett and this is the

dire of a ceo

i hope nobody's listening but if you are

then please keep this to yourself

and um when i was reading your book

first man in there was um

there's this quote at the end of one of

the chapters and i thought it was a good

place to start this conversation today

because

i tend to think that it's probably one

of the more foundational pieces

of information well it might lead to one

of the most foundational piece of

information to describe who you became

in your life and what you've got on to

achieve

and this is what you you wrote at the

end of the chapter it says it's called

making friends with your demons

having dark forces living within us is

part of being human they're the result

of inevitable damage of life

each one of us has a choice make these

demons work for us

or turn them loose against us and

slightly linked to that

in the same on the same page you wrote

most of most of us have horror stories

we can tell you about from our

childhoods

it's not the horror that defines you

it's how well you fought it

what did that mean i think that's just a

generic message to everyone to say that

it's okay

to have you know bad thoughts it's okay

to have these demons inside you they

exist in all of us

you know but the important message is to

exercise them

because the moment you lock them away

the moment you lock these thoughts away

the moment you lock these demons away

the moment you lock any negativity away

all it's going to do

is take over like a mold and it's going

to completely engulf you

and it's going to going to control you

as an individual

and it's only because i've been there

and i've done it whether that's what

i've done in combat

losing my father at a young age um

losing my mother

um seeing bodies blown up around me

seeing

dead people around me seeing the effect

it has on families

seeing what my decision pulling that

trigger or not

has on a certain person or has on a

certain family or has on a certain

situation

and it's ultimately being okay with who

you are

that's the whole thing about it it's

being acknowledging that listen

we're not perfect we're human okay we

have

weaknesses we have insecurities we have

these horrendous thoughts sometimes

now you'd be a liar to say you don't sit

there sometimes and you know the things

that go through your head if you

actually voice them

then that becomes a problem that's you

not exercising your demons that's

them exercising you and it's just about

acknowledging that

and i acknowledge that from such a young

age

i acknowledged that from a young age

when my father passed away and i

couldn't really understand what was

going on

can you tell me about that um yeah my

father passed away when i was five years

old

and um within a few months

a new man came into our life um my

stepfather

um and then within two years we up

moved to france so we lived in

portsmouth we often moved completely to

france

a new situation a new environment a new

man in our life

and i can just remember thinking i

remember going into

a bush in the fields where we lived in

france

after a couple of months we were there

and i sat in this bush

and the magnitude of the situation was

so overwhelming

i can just remember looking at the road

and thinking to myself

what am i doing here why why am i here

what's the purpose i

i couldn't grasp anything at that young

age

and it was during that moment when i let

everything go

and i can just remember thinking to

myself don't try and understand what's

going on

don't i'm just trying to understand who

this man is and where he's come from

don't try and understand why you're in a

different school speaking a different

language

because you can't don't try and

understand

all of a sudden you're living in

caravans

we moved we were living in a couple of

caravans we were a big

big family um from houses

um and i can just remember dropping

everything and thinking to myself

understand what you can understand and

that at that young age what i could

understand was

what i was feeling you know i could

understand myself

so when i look back on the death of my

father and as i flip everything into a

positive

even though years and years and years

down the line i'd done this

you know the death of my father actually

made me self-reflect

from the age of six or seven

so i've been self-reflecting you know

understanding my emotions understanding

how i feel

understanding my demons understanding

you know the good parts of me the bad

parts to me the

weak parts of me the strong parts of me

the positive side of me the negative

side of me

and i've been really breaking it down

from such a young age and

that's given me an advantage in life

i generally believe that that's given me

my sort of

bulletproof mindset on how to tackle

anyone or any situation today

so even though it's a traumatic

part of my life and it affected me all

the way up to my mid-20s

in in a bad way where i'd go out and try

and understand who my father was trying

to understand

you know i never went to his funeral i

never went to

to to his grave now my parents my

say my parents my stepdad because he

came in my life so young i called him my

dad

um they never told me where he was

buried he was just completely cut out of

our life

um because of the situation beforehand

you know for him to come into our lives

a couple of months after it was pretty

obvious that my mum was obviously having

an affair or there's something going on

and again i'm not judging anyone or the

situation but

you know so when he came into our life

it was like right you call him dad

my name changed from aaron to middleton

not a lot of people know that really

yeah um and this whole new life was just

forced upon me forced upon me so i was

either

forced to act or force not to act

you know sitting in that bush me forcing

not to act was probably jumping in the

road

you know thinking like listen enough is

enough did that cross your mind

it was a big road it was a big road and

it never got to that stage where i

thought right i'm going to take my life

but it was like

you know this there's an easy option out

of here which i mean it's like

there is an easy option out of here but

it never crossed my mind to

to do it but i can just remember

thinking of that road thinking the cars

move fast there

i mean if you wanted to it's more like

if you wanted to

yeah so it crosses your mind yeah it

crosses your mind but it doesn't

register yeah if that makes sense yeah

and it's only you know throughout these

few years when you start to reflect back

on

on who you are and what you've been

through you start to go bloody hell and

actually maybe

i was thinking like that at a young age

so um

but then again you know who i am i you

know i'm honest with myself i'm honest

with my demons i'm honest with

with who i am and ultimately i'm i'm

honest with um

with knowing that we're not perfect you

know a lot of people

and you've described it there they never

make they never

admit their demons to themself and what

ends up happening is those demons

run the show but from the back room

absolutely and you know i guess you see

that a lot

with people that have come back from war

as well because they don't

get the uh the support they need but

i see it during war yeah i see people

level-headed

intelligent soldiers lose their head on

the battlefield come

running past you doing things that you

think

wow where the hell did that come from

you look into their eyes and there's

[ __ ] nothing there nothing there

and then boom they flip out and you're

like

do you realize what you just done like

like you know it's

you know those demons are [ __ ] strong

they're there

how do you address them you have to

exercise them

and you know the way i exercise my

demons is

by getting like-minded similar people in

the same room

in a safe environment and i might drink

myself into oblivion

till three four in the morning you know

chatting about what we've done chatting

about

old times chatting about who we are and

then boom i'm done

for six months you know i've i've

released those demons

when you you know intoxicate yourself

with alcohol it you know

it allows you to talk and i'm not saying

go out there and do that but that's just

my way

of coming from a drinking culture i.e

the military a drinking and a fighting

culture that's the way that we deal with

things

and for now now it might be a blowout

where you know

i go out and you know i'll have a nice

meal and

you know we'll have a few glasses of

wine you know we'll be in a

private room and we we shoot the [ __ ]

and you know just talk about

whatever we need to talk about

whatever's on your mind but also

physically

i exercise my demons physically you know

i put myself in horrendous situations in

order to fight against myself

um everest is a prime example of what's

gonna say um

you know i didn't have to go up during

the storms i you know

if i was the normal sensible person i

would have

went up after that storm went so just

for context you

you decided to climb mount everest with

a buddy of yours

at probably the worst possible time and

you got into a little bit of a

predicament up there

yeah exactly that yeah um to say the

least yeah

but it's one of those where i didn't

just want to walk up

on a nice sunny day you know and

and gain nothing from that experience

what what why though

like why are you voluntarily putting

yourself through

chaos and what anyone else would

perceive to be agony why are you

choosing that

that's me exercising my demons really

that's me

you know pushing myself to that limit

that's me

having tasted that drug of

living on that line of life and death

and a lot of people think that drugs

adrenaline but it's not

i don't feel pumped i don't feel i feel

ultimate peace

so people find this bizarre but when

i walk that line of life and death which

i've done multiple times

it's a pure feeling of euphoria it's not

what you think where you feel pumped in

your your eyes are red and

you've got this aggression going through

you and you have to get through this

moment it's like

life is so uncomplicated steve so

uncomplicated you're either going to

live or you're going to die

all the [ __ ] all the complications

of life

that is implemented on you whether

that's through

government whether that's through work

whether that's true family all of that

goes

and you are left with the most purest

form of life

and it's so uncomplicated that it's so

euphoric

it's so peaceful and when you hear of

world war

one and world war ii poets that are

writing poems in trenches

people are like how the hell are they

writing poems in trenches

i understand that feeling because life

is so uncomplicated it's so pure it's so

peaceful

that they're writing with no stresses no

complications no [ __ ] it's just it's

coming from

the purest form of life of i'm either

going to live or i'm going to die

and it's that feeling that i chase i

chase that feeling well

to want that moment of peace pure and

utter peace

for 10 15 minutes

that drug i chase and that's

crossing those boundaries crossing those

lines crossing any limitations

to the edge of life you take that step

you're gone

you go over that edge you know you're

gonna

feel it you're gonna feel alive you're

gonna feel everything that you need

that you need out of life um but for me

that's exercising my demons

so whether i do it psychologically where

i'm putting myself

in situations that i'm saying stuff that

i believe in that i value that

as a message and it's being contradicted

or whether i'm pushing myself

to a physical limit or putting myself in

a in a physical situation which is

uncomprehendable to to the to the

everyday man or woman

but it's because i've tasted it i've had

the

misfortune i've had

the burden of tasting that drug

and will it be the end of me i can't say

that for sure i can't say that it won't

i can't say that you know i've never put

myself in these situations again because

i find myself constantly doing it

but for me that is exercising my demons

and everyone's demons are different

everyone's situation is different

everyone's emotions are different

everyone's dna is different but that's

me exercising my demons

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what what are the other if any moments

from your early years that went into

shaping

the man you became was there anything

else because i i hear you in your books

and in your writing and your interviews

continue to cite that that

that sort of trauma with your father and

your stepfather then coming in and

and being the way that he was but there

was was there anything up leading until

you know your twenties that you cite as

being pivotal

and who you became yeah when i joined

the british

military i joined the army at the age of

16.

i'm just going on to 17. and i came from

a background

of french culture you know i'd go out

and drink coffee when i was 14 play

bowling when i was 15.

you know and all of a sudden i get

thrown into a male dominant organization

um the culture drinking fighting you fit

in or you [ __ ] off

it's as simple as that so what do you do

you try and fit in

but when you try and put a a round peg

into a square hole

you know you're going to get stuck and

you either stay stuck

okay you and you go around pleasing

everyone else or you pull yourself out

of that situation

and that's ultimately what i've done

with the army i spent four years in the

army then left

because of that situation it wasn't me i

wasn't this aggressive

young lad that loved drinking i'd never

used to drink

i was always polite always respectful

i'd walk past someone i'd tip my hat

you know in france you said bonjour and

you know you just have a little chat you

do that in england

when when i was 16 17 walking past

someone nodding and they're like what

the [ __ ] are you looking at

no it used to shock me and i used to

think i'm only saying hi mate what you

know

and that was a pivotal four years in my

life where i thought to myself

can i fit in to this uk culture

um or i can

pull myself out of it and for the first

four years i found myself fitting in

and i found myself being good at

drinking i found myself being good at

fighting

i found myself being good at being a

[ __ ] [ __ ]

you know because that's what i needed to

be to fit in so

again those were demons

that i discovered along the way that i

found that i was good at so would i let

anyone

take the piss out of me anymore you bet

no because you're going to get you're

going to get good hiding

you know would i would i go out and and

drink and fit in yeah of course of

course i would you know

hey one of the lads i want to fit in i

mean i'm so

i'm so far detached from all of that but

if i'm this young polite respectful

sort of multiculturaled individual then

that's gonna be a more of a hindrance

moving forward in in what i need to do

especially in the military then it is

uh a benefit so you find yourself

turning into this person i can just

remember

i was about 21 and

i went to macedonia and i worked with

the french foreign legion

out there because i speak fluent french

and i worked with the french friend

legion a bit and i saw how they were

they're very

very mature very sort of you know

going back to that french culture you

know they're all family orientated very

i thought to myself wow this is this is

who i am

and when i got back off that tour i can

just remember going to the squadron bar

i was in nine parachute squadron wall

engineers going to the squadron bar

we've just done a six-month tour i'm

going to the squadron bar and i remember

walking in there and i remember seeing

someone

um a staff sergeant probably about 35

36 you know i'm a young 20 21 year old

drinking from a a boot for an old desert

boot

right and he's drinking piss being

drinking piss from my boot and i can

just remember looking at him thinking

if i continue the way that i'm going

that's going to be me

in 15 years time and it scared the hell

out of me

i can remember just thinking i've got to

get the hell out of here i walked out of

that bar

and the next day i put my notice in i

was like that this is not who i

am this is not you know i've gained more

demons

from this four years than i have

any friends any benefits from it

and that was a pivotal point that was a

pivotal point in my life where i thought

to myself wow

you know i can either go i can have a

change in such a way

and just be stuck in this square hole

or i can pull myself out rebuild on the

foundations that i have of knowing that

i'm a good person

and you and from there you handed in

your notice and what happened next

from there i handed him my notice and

and i left and

um i found that

in civvie street i was acting

the person that i never wanted to be in

the military right

but i'd found that that had followed me

that that had taken

charge of me give me be specific those

demons that um

those demons that had sort of identified

themselves within that four years were

running the show

so when i got out i joined the

metropolitan police

and i was acting like a proper squaddie

right now going out drinking every night

you know

cheating on my exams um drink driving

you know i got all the way through

training a couple of weeks ago

a couple of weeks to go passed all the

tests i got caught drink driving

boom kicked out the um kicked out the

met

um out the training um in hendon

and but it didn't bother me i was like

yeah you know once a soldier always a

soldier

and i was living in the past and being

someone who

completely wasn't me but who had control

of me

and then getting into into the street

life

you know i got into the street life

where you know

fighting not gangs not games but that

that social circle where you know you

have to uphold a reputation where you

and the one thing that you know well

i'll say the one thing but the thing i

was good at that

fitted me is that was a good scrapper i

knew i know how to scrap i know how to

drink

and how to fight but you find yourself

reverting back to the person

who you never wanted to be and i suppose

that was the defense mechanism

i knew that that worked in the uk i'd

never tried and tested anything else

as soon as i came over to the uk

straight into the military again now i

spent

10 12 years in france before that then

boom

straight over into into the british

culture and i thought that that's how

you acted

i never knew what silly street was about

because

um i never i was never in it so um it

took me a

a good couple of years again

to realize what saved you what pulled

you out of the job

there's one moment that saved me um

i refused to sign on i refuse to take

any any help from the government same um

and i can remember my auntie i was

living with my auntie at the time and

you've got

you know you've got no money what are

you going to do i said well i'm going to

go down to the job center why won't you

just sign on

you know until you find a job i'm like

no

that was proud i was like no i've never

taken a penny off the government

i thought now i'm going to go to the job

center i remember walking into the job

center walking up the stairs walking

into the job center

and i had my red book and the red book

when you leave the military it's got all

your

all your qualifications military

qualifications all your credentials

and i walked into the job center and the

guy obviously recognized the books

they'd probably have

hundreds of people going there you know

a year and he said oh mate you're x

military on yourself yeah he said come

to the desk he sat down with me and

he opened up my book and he started

reading my book

and he looked up at me and he said why

did you leave the military

and before i could answer i was going to

say something back and he said

i have hundreds of these come across my

desk and they said this is one of the

best reports i've ever read

he said so my advice to you as he

slammed the book shot he went

went go back into that space and i

remember just sitting there

um i was 22 sitting down and thinking

mike okay he's gonna offer me a job now

and he just

handed me the book and called over the

next person and i was just like

i'm picking up a bit to myself guys

you know but obviously there's there's

all military qualifications there's

nothing for me out there apart from to

empty bins or whatever it may be

and i remember taking the book and as i

walked down the steps of the job center

i sat down halfway down on the steps

and i had a train ticket in my pocket

and probably about

a couple of quid loose change that's

that was my life

um this was at the age of 22 23 maybe

and um and i can just remember thinking

to myself

right why the hell are you sat

skin nothing in your life

apart from what you the clothes that

you're wearing and what's in your

pockets

jobless and then

a moment of clarity just hit me it's

almost as if i had an out of body

experience and i was looking back at the

boys sitting on the step and

i just remember thinking to myself right

i'll tell you why

it's because you're pretending to be

someone else

you're lying to yourself therefore

you're living a lie

you're you know you think you're better

than everyone else

you know you've got this reputation that

you want to uphold that's not you

um you're just you're just a shadow of

who you really are

you're not you know who the hell do you

think you are

because the person that i'm looking at

you know almost looking in the mirror

the person that i'm looking at

is exactly where you should be sat on a

[ __ ] step

jobless with nothing because

this isn't you and if you want to live

in the shadow if you want to

stay stuck in that hole in that square

hole

then keep lying to yourself and keep

living a lie

and that moment i'll always go back to

that moment whenever i get a bit above

myself

or a bit too big for my boots i always

go back to that moment where i ripped

myself apart

because it freed me as an individual and

i promise you this and it's not

cliche this isn't some kind of [ __ ]

[ __ ] story that i'm telling

you it freed me as an individual because

i can remember remember standing up

on them steps feeling like a new man

because

i just identified who i was this isn't

you get that out your life get out of

your life get that out of your life

be you and i had those foundations to

fall back on

because i knew who i was ultimately but

it was discovered and and

yeah ego covered with so much [ __ ]

covered with so much complications that

i'd

implemented on myself and when i got rid

of it all

i was just like that you know what i was

good at the military

i've got best recruit best pt when i was

in the army you know what i'm gonna do i

love that lifestyle but it's just around

the wrong people

i was in the wrong regiment you know i'm

gonna rejoin the military

but i'm going to be a team player i'm

going to be myself i'm going to be this

respectful gentleman hard worker that i

know that i am

which i mean i'm not going to go out

boozing i'm not going to go out fighting

i'm not going to try and fit in

you know if they don't accept me for who

i am then so be it

the military obviously isn't for me i

joined the royal marines i went straight

down the careers office

straight down the careers office and

joined the royal marines and within a

couple of months because of my previous

um military uh history um i got him very

quick

and within a couple of months i found

myself going through royal marine

training

and when i passed out of war marine

training i got um awarded with best

recruit which is the king's badge

and i can just remember thinking to

myself right and you've been here before

you know you've got best recruit best pt

you know you rested on your laurels went

to your unit didn't really fit in

you're in the same position now now you

can either use this

as a positive and push forward and and

you know go on to achieve great

things or you can try and fit in

booze fight be a be a

camp hero you know a pub soldier

and just be back to square one where you

was

five six seven years ago there's

something and i want to carry on from

that story but just going back to that

i find it super fascinating that you're

sat on those stairs

and at a moment when your ego kind of

dissolves because of the circumstances

you find yourself in

um you're actually able then to go and

pursue your true self and i find

you know i had someone sat in this chair

previously and he's the biggest investor

in the world in psychedelics

and one of the things that he talks

about with psychedelics is it what it

does is it strips back the [ __ ]

your ego the the identity you've been

living to please society

and what's left is like who you actually

are and it's and it's so funny that

so many of the guests i speak to and

some of the psychologists i've spoken to

talk about

in order to like find your happiness and

pursue your true self you have to get

rid of that [ __ ] and

what i'm what i was hearing when you

were saying that is you know you'd you'd

create this reputation an identity

for yourself which actually was leading

you astray but it was helping you

survive in those circles

absolutely and this tough tough decision

to say do you know i'm going to break

out that circle

leave that identity behind throw myself

into an uncertain moment and go in

pursuit of like who i actually am

and everybody faces that in their life

you know as a

kid growing up in devon in a school of

1500 white kids

pretending that i liked indie music and

pretending i was to fit in and survive

yeah and i i left the city because i

deep down in my heart i didn't resonate

with anybody

but i was in that small town city

surrounded by 1500 white kids that liked

the kooks

yeah and then 18 i was like i'm out here

i'm gonna go be steve move to manchester

you know and i dropped and i started to

and i think everybody in their life

regardless of what walk of life you

you face that decision and either you've

realized that you're living an identity

or a life untrue to yourself

and you've gone on the journey to go

find yourself or right now as you're

listening to this

you are and you'll know it yeah because

the words that you've described there

will ring true

so that completely i completely

understand that and that makes complete

sense to me

and one of the things that i say um is

the most courageous thing you can do

above all bravery is

to be honest with yourself why is that

so hard these days

i had one day last week was actually

sunday

where i didn't have my heel and i had a

little bit of junk food and i don't know

what it is

but i think my body has got used to

eating clean food because for the next

three days i felt i still kind of feel

what day we are now tuesday i still kind

of feel

crap from the junk food that i i just

had one drunk meal i had this junk meal

right

i still feel crap now i don't know what

it is i think my body has genuinely got

used to eating good food so the minute

now that i put in something that is bad

for me my body goes steve what are you

doing

um and i felt bad for the last two days

and i've returned to huell and i feel

good again this is just an anecdotal

story but i said this to my pa last

night

i said i for some reason having now

transitioned to a

really good diet on your any sort of um

dabble with the

the stuff that i used to eat is more

sort of alarming to my body

and i notice it way more than i ever had

so yeah you know

it's one thing having a podcast sponsor

that pays you money but

it's another thing having a podcast

sponsor who

you genuinely believe can help people

change their lives for the better

one of the things that i say um is the

most courageous thing you can do

above all bravery is

to be honest with yourself why is that

so hard these days

you know people say to me and you know

what's the bravest thing you've ever

done and i always talk about the story

of the job center steps because that

took courage that took

balls that that's bravery right there

you know i've been in rooms where

bullets are flying over my head i've

kicked doors down and you know

i've taken i've saved life it's like

that's not

being brave that's just me being

extremely good at my job and loving what

i do

you know it's not there's nothing to do

with bravery you know bravery is almost

forced upon you

but when you decide to step into the

arena when you decide to step

into that and go right i'm going to face

this

and put that mirror on yourself

ultimately

facing yourself that is the hardest but

most liberating thing i've ever done

and people shy away from that and they

live in the void

they live this life where they're just

living the void i call it and say you're

on autopilot

because you're lying to yourself and

it's pretty simple therefore you're

going to live a lie i don't care

it's i'm not the archbishop of

canterbury you know i'm like

i'm not a rocket scientist it's just

simple science you know if you lie to

yourself

guess what you're going to live a lie um

but standing in a mirror standing in the

mirror

and ripping yourself apart

does take away all the [ __ ] and all

the complications and it frees you as an

individual

but it's you have to do it on a regular

basis you can't just go i've done it

once so here we go i've found myself

this is who i am because

hopefully you're constantly changing

you're constantly evolving you're

constantly

um adapting your mindset you know that's

what evolution is about you know the the

world is designed to

to you know is is it evolutionizes and

we are designed to do exactly the same

and the moment

that you you're not honest with yourself

this game over for you it's like it's

like you do you just want to be

just that person you know like a lot of

people say to me and

you know i've remember you remember me

from the military i'm like yeah yeah

yeah they got [ __ ] i you've changed a

lot

you've changed i'm like that i haven't

seen you for 10 years

i hope i've changed and i say to them

you haven't that's why you're still just

that guy

that's why i'm at middleton and you're

still just that guy

is because of course i've changed i'd

like to think in another 10 years time

when you see me that

i've changed again because if i haven't

i'm doing something wrong

and that doing something wrong is not

being honest with myself

and it all goes back to you as an

individual no one can do that for you

no one can do that for you and i say to

every everyone

everything starts with you and it's

it's so true if you don't want to change

nothing will change around you

you know if you don't want to be honest

with yourself well guess what you're

lying to yourself

it's a complete opposite therefore

you're living a lie it's like you have

to do this on a

on a on a weekly on a monthly basis any

time

an obstacle was thrown in front of you

you couldn't

fall back on right to be honest with

yourself be honest with who you are

be honest with with with you you know

with how you tackle things and

and and don't lie to yourself the cost

of being yourself and being honest with

yourself

is it seemingly increasing in this day

and age and

you know i find it i think that's a

really really valid point one that i

hadn't

i didn't think expressed properly which

is you had that reflective moment when

you sat on those stairs where you say

[ __ ] it we're gonna start being honest

with ourselves but then especially as

you get more successful

you know in your media career and

everything else the forces

at play trying to get you to not be

honest with yourself

get greater and greater and this is this

crazy sort of

i don't know paradox or whatever we see

in society at the moment which is

you being honest with yourself is the

reason you're sat here it's the reason

you're at middleton yeah

but and that's what's made you go

explode right

but then the higher you get it's like i

don't know

you know the the resistance for you not

to be yourself becomes greater because

now you've got now you're more of a

target right

hard [ __ ] hard [ __ ] life to live

do you know what i've

been witness of it you know the council

culture

the um don't say that ant because you

will lose this book deal

you will lose that media career you will

lose that production

and witness of it right now you know um

i hear it

probably on a weekly basis um

but then that's that square peg

round hole it's like no i don't

you know it's it's every time i think

about that

and i always have two principles

with everything that i do is

don't go out to offend so i don't say

things to offend people

therefore they choose to be offended i

don't say things to offend people i just

say things what i think is right was

what served me um good in my experiences

and my career my mindset

and the second thing is you know don't

don't do

things maliciously so first of all don't

go out

it's it's verbal and also actions

you know don't don't do things

maliciously because then

ultimately yeah you're going to have a

backlash you're going to have a reaction

to

to to what you've done um so that's

exactly what i do i don't go out to

offend

but i go out to tell the truth but i

also go out to seek

the truth you know and i go out to

seeking the truth again everything

starts with you and with who i am

it's dangerous and it's it's it's

definitely in the social media area

it's dangerous it is dangerous but

hopefully you get past that

that stage of people realizing that

actually this is ant he's

not been any different he's not you know

voiced

anything different he's not tried to fit

into a media agenda he's not trying to

try to blag anyone he's not being fake

this is who aunt middleton is

and he will always be like that

regardless yeah regardless but then

there's that

platform of not reaching that level

quite yet

and then everything descending upon you

um and i and unfortunately there's a lot

of people out there that are scared to

say what they

truly feel are scared to voice their

opinions uh

scared to you know voice their values

because

ultimately it takes food off the table

it's a career stopper when your career

stops guess what suffers after that your

family

and then when that when that suffers

guess what there's not much out there

for you

you have to rebuild again well all those

10 15

20 years career that you've you've built

all for that one moment is it worth it

no so what do you do

keep quiet what'd you do don't do

anything

just say what they want you to say and

do what they want you to do

that doesn't [ __ ] rub with me that's

a sore point with me

you know you try and you try and make me

someone that i'm

that i'm not like i've been made someone

them than i'm that i'm not

you're probably gonna get even you feel

gonna get the worst out of me

even more so because everything comes

back around to who you

truly are they're trying to control you

yeah it's a controlling measure

and it's like listen i've i've let

people control my life i've let

situations control my life

and it's i've ended up psychologically

not physically

psychologically on that brink of

questioning who the [ __ ] who the [ __ ] am

i who am i

that's what i question and the moment i

start questioning who am i

then i know that project isn't for me i

know that that

that sponsor isn't for me i know that

that tv

um channel or that tv production isn't

for me

because the moment that comes into

question and it's like you

don't probably don't get who i am you

probably don't understand who i am you

probably haven't done your homework with

who i am

do i fit into your agenda and it's like

if you don't fit into one agenda

you get bounced boom straight across to

the opposite side

right it's like listen i don't belong on

that side it's just cause i don't

believe

in in this this side doesn't mean i

belong on that side

yeah i'm i belong in the middle you know

people say

you are you on the left you're on the

right i'm like i'm not on the left or

right i'm in the

middle i'm in the middle

you say slightly something that goes

against this agenda then again you just

get

bounced straight to the other side the

right road i don't recognize you the

left won't recognize you so there's who

are your enemies of both

yeah but it's it's and it's a dangerous

place to live in this is

it's it's it

it's it's a sad state of affairs a real

sad

sad um sad state of affairs and

you know just because your values and

your views are different doesn't mean my

message isn't

isn't the same you know my message

everything that i do

is about positivity it's about mindset

it's about bringing people together you

look at sas who dares wins what does it

do

makes people realize what they're

capable of makes them find themselves it

brings people together

brings families together you know mutiny

teamwork brings people together escape

you know

straight talking being honest and open

and and

it makes it makes you feel good it

brings you together it unites people

because they can be open and honest with

themselves and therefore they know what

they're capable of

self belief starts to kick in and they

feel good about it's bringing people

together

right and that is you'd be inhumane

really to to not think like that to not

want to help people out to not want to

so the message is is is always the same

but it's this bit

in the middle right don't you ever get

pushed to one side

you can't have this sort of in the

middle opinion of well actually my

values are the same as yours

you know i'm all about positive change

yeah okay

so what why are you saying my values

don't fit with yours because i'm about

positive change look at my message for

the last

five six years since i've been in the

media it's positive change

unity look at what i do everything i do

whether it's my books my tours

my tv programs everything is about

bringing people together

bringing the best out of people so

just because this in-between bit i my

views are different and mine are

probably truthful

which people don't want to hear the

truth it's like right bounce off to one

side and then and then you start to get

cancelled but

what's the answer though like so i i you

know i hear we've heard pierce morgan

talk a lot about this as well and other

people talk about how

you know if you don't perfectly fit the

the views or the perfect hashtag of the

of the left or whatever then um you're

basically being cancelled in culture and

i i genuinely

this is a [ __ ] probably the most

genuine question i've ever asked in this

podcast because it's one that i'm

thinking about all the time

is i also see this happening my views

don't always fit the left or the right

and sometimes like in the black lives

matter moment

i posted on my instagram saying it was

actually my best performing post of all

time

i said because there was this whole

narrative around like silence is

violence and if you're not saying

anything then you're a racist

i did a post saying like that's

obviously [ __ ] yeah as i said it's

unpopular black opinion

if someone doesn't post a black square

on their instagram doesn't make them a

racist

people process things in completely

different in fact the most unnatural

reaction to trauma

is to take to social media so like and

that absolutely it was

it was it didn't fit the like silences

violence narrative

and and my ability and i like of course

that's [ __ ] true

like i mean it doesn't it doesn't fit i

understand

right but it's no one not one individual

in the millions and millions of views

that that posted

could tell me there was one slide in

that nine that was

they disagreed with but it was the

feeling

that i wasn't wearing the football kit

of the of the left that made some people

go

you're an awful person to sleep and then

i'd go why they'd go

yeah yeah exactly you see their minds

ticking and ticking you're like

tell me tell me what's wrong with the

post they go oh you know what sorry

yeah and and i i i think well i'm i know

i'm not going to change

so when i look into my future i go at

some point i'm going to get cancelled

because my brand is building i've got

some stuff coming up on

in the media and i'm thinking i know i'm

not going to change so

what's the answer here like i'm always

going to and i know that it's getting

more

is the answer this is why you're here

yeah

i know it's like it's like it's like

what the answer is to be true to who you

are yeah and just take the intention

and it's like it's you know that's the

one thing i've always fall back on

is just knowing you know if you're an

idiot you know if you're irritating

people you know if you're not a good

person

and then ultimately you know you're

going to get what's coming to you and

you probably deserve it

but i know that i'm a good person i know

my foundations i'm polite and respectful

you know i don't go out to offend ever

go out to offend i hate confrontation

because of the way that i know that i

can deal with confrontation it frightens

me

to get into that situation because i

know what i'm capable of

okay so i don't ever i'm over polite i'm

over respectful

because i think people should be treated

like that now i like to be treated like

that i wasn't treated like that when i

started off in my army career and i know

what it feels like okay and i never

would never want anyone to

to experience that so i'm over polite

and i'm over respectful

and i've always fall back on that i

always look at myself in the mirror and

i go and

you're you i know i'm a good person and

that

are the foundations that i've built

that's my foundations that's

who i am okay so you can knock my bricks

down

i will but guess what i will keep

building and building and building

and you can knock it even if you knock

them down to the foundations

i can fall back on being true to myself

and there's no more liberating steve

liberating feeling than that of being

true to who you are going do you know

what

i'm not going to fit into that agenda

i'm not going to fit into that box

i'm not going to squeeze myself in there

to make myself feel uncomfortable

for your agenda because that's not who i

am would you rather lose at all yeah 100

because i've got my foundations i've got

my foundations i will always

build steve always build and this part

of the building

is so high now that can you cancel me

crack on because i guarantee you i just

keep building this side this side of

this side decide

because the people that know me know who

i am

and someone said this to me with all the

stuff that's been going on lately

um you know i've had some sponsors i've

cancelled i've had some

tv programs that i've kind of crack on

but the people that by my side the

sponsors

and the channels and the production

companies that by my side that have

worked for me saying and

we have the privilege of knowing you and

that wrong accord to me though

i'm like they have the privilege of

knowing me

and i think to myself wow you've got the

privilege of knowing i've got the

privilege of knowing myself

because i know who i am and i'm glad i'm

glad i gave you that privilege

and it's not being big headed i'm glad i

gave you that privilege of knowing me

because you know that this is just a

storm of words

you know that this is just media hype

you know this is just fake news you know

this isn't real you know

yeah i've maybe got a little bit of a

fiery side to me but you know

you're getting that with me you know i'm

rough around the edges

so yeah and i'm happy to you know to to

to cut a few of the edges but

those edges are still going to be there

do you know what i mean

so when they said that to me and it's

something that will stick with me

forever and it's

from a very very good sponsor you know

um

very much to do with my books and i can

just

and i remember sitting back and just

taking that breath and going

keep doing what you're doing then you're

doing the right thing and then this last

week

you know so many doors have opened

production companies calling me

channels calling me um

you know and you hear about it you hear

about oh you know you get cancelled then

that's your career done and

but then you've got your peers morgan's

you've got your your jeremy clarkson's

and

now you've got your aunt middleton's

okay and

it just goes to show that i'm doing the

right thing and that actually yeah i'm

not gonna fit i'm not gonna be

comfortable with

with everyone and i'm not gonna be their

cup of tea well that's fine because

guess what

i don't want to work with you if i get

questioned one little bit about my

who i am like i said before if i get

questioned one little bit about who i am

by any brands

any sponsors any channels then i will

not work with them

i will say listen thank you very much

it's obviously

you know not the right match um

you go on and do your thing and i'll go

on and do my thing because i will always

go on and do my thing

and that building can completely drop to

the foundations

but when you're honest with yourself and

you know who you are

those foundations are solid you will

always have something to build from

but when you're not honest with yourself

and everything comes crumbling down and

you have no foundations to fall on

you're [ __ ] that's when you're in

trouble that's when you start to go well

i won't say that i won't act like this i

won't do this and i won't do that

and that's when you become someone else

that's when you become fake to who you

are

and guess what desperate times then

you're like a wounded animal

and guess what you're probably going to

be right at the back of the pack

for the rest of your life the

psychological impact of living a life

that isn't true to yourself and

i mean this is why people have these

like midlife crises when they've even in

like

the professional world where they've you

know their mum and dad have told them to

go and be a

whatever a banker or a lawyer they don't

want to be they want to be a [ __ ]

dancer or whatever

and then they get mid-life crisis and

you look at throughout psychology i talk

about this a little bit my book

you know if you look at certain

communities like the lgbtq

community their suicide rates are so so

high amongst those groups because a lot

of them have been

oppressed in a way where they can't live

their true life they can't be their

identity so they've had to

live a lie that's live a fake life and

then you see suicide rates go up because

that is a form of torture

and this is when i asked you the

question about you know would you rather

lose at all

um one would one would actually maybe

even if i question myself say well

what are you losing yeah if you're

losing tv shows and you're losing things

that aren't true to yourself

is it a loss you know it's not a loss

because

you will always find something that fits

you dude i mean if you have the passion

and the drive and

the ambition and the positivity

of knowing who you are and ultimately

the world is your oyster

it's like you know people have this

impression of me that i'm this

hard-faced drill sergeant

non-accepting person i am the complete

opposite go and be the [ __ ] you want to

be that's my message

if that's what then don't let anyone

force you into

into saying anything doing anything or

being anyone else be yourself

but this is the side that people don't

see of you and this

but this is my personal side steve i

people see what they want to see the

media will write what they want to write

they will they will make you

they will make you out to be who they

want you to be

but you can't put all of that into a

hashtag you've got to characterize

yourself in 10 letters yeah and this is

the problem with with

issues that are complex and nuanced and

there's different layers and

you if it doesn't fit into a hashtag

then and this is the football team

analogy as well

quick interjection before we get back to

the podcast just want to say that as you

know because i've talked about it a few

times on this podcast

i'm probably one of the biggest users in

the world of a website called fiverr.com

f i v e r r dot com

i use it for everything whether it's my

podcast or whether it's my personal

brand content whether it's my business

or other projects that i'm doing

and this week i've used it again i've

used it to make a website called katana

which is my investment company

people don't know this my old company

was called social chain and katana or

katana

is the italian word for chain that's the

inspiration keep that to yourself

um but it's just another example of how

you can use fiverr to help you

expand your capabilities as an

entrepreneur as a content creator

and i've managed to get a website up for

my investment company katana in the

space of

two and a half days and it cost me 400

quid

typically that would cost tens of

thousands of pounds and typically it

would take months

that's the power of fiverr allowing you

to quickly and affordably extend the

capabilities of your team

of your personal brand and achieve

things that you might not have been able

to otherwise

i want to talk though going back to your

you know when you started in the

military one thing i

find really interesting is the guy that

was running around drinking boozing

getting in trouble

for him then to go into the military and

pass with flying colours

is like a massive contradiction in my

mind i'm like one

appears to be a guy that's kind of out

of control the other one and and

seemingly lacking the appreciation of

authority and then the other guy is one

that's able to

do what he's told and follow orders and

and and how did you achieve such that's

what they want

that's what they need they need the

animal

on the battlefield they need

the aggression they need the violence

because ultimately on the battlefield

you counter violence

with extreme violence you know there's

zero tolerance to violence in sydney

street in society nowadays

you show any form of violence you can

end up behind bars been there

but in the military you you counter

violence with extreme violence you you

counter anger with extreme anger

and you're that's needed i i needed to

be that person on the battlefield i

needed to

to have to cut myself off from any

emotional sort of

feelings any emotional you know sort of

um

discrepancies because

they were the missions that i went on

now i was hunting down

taliban commanders you know i was

getting into [ __ ] [ __ ] storms to

firefights

every week every couple you know two

three times a week

i needed to put to call on those demons

to come to the forefront of who i was to

get the job done

and then switch it you're expected to

switch it because

one moment you're kicking the door down

you know

taking out enemy combatants the next

next door you're kicking the door down

there's

women and children in there so

you you live on that side or you live on

that side

and then when you get the two confused

you know you i might be in afghanistan

best man put me on camp you know

well you can't be doing that and well

what who the [ __ ] do you want

i mean you can't be doing that you can't

be you know getting into fights downtown

you can't be you know

getting you know i just get into a hell

of a lot of fights you know it can help

ruin my military career because you know

but then

three tours of afghanistan are done

almost back to back

perfect out there man boom boom boom

boom boom

so what what animal do you want you know

and it's okay to be able to flip from

one to the other when when you're here

but when you live on the complete

opposite sides of the spectrum

you're gonna get confused every now and

then you're going to be met with a

situation in society where

you're met with aggression you're met

with violence and this

demon takes over you know what it is is

it's a moment of madness it's just a

confusion confliction between the two

you know and it's between the two two

people and sometimes

it goes whack yeah and before you know

it that crossover

is too much they're both like trained to

survive but in different

environments in completely different

environments and sometimes those

environments

you know you're forced to act and those

environments get switched yeah and it's

literally like a flash in front of your

eyes it's like bang bang

[ __ ] i used the wrong person there i

used the wrong environment it's

it's and and that's that's the world

that i live in

that's the world that i lived in that

was my life that was

you know i used to come back from from

afghanistan

and you know i've got four four four

four children at home

i'm a fifth one from a previous

relationship who's 19 but um used to

come home

i remember coming back from afghanistan

and my daughter was born

she's 13 now my daughter was born um 10

days

before i left for a six-month tour in

afghanistan

so she was born so i didn't know her and

i came back six months later and she was

like nearly seven months um

and then i went straight on special

forces selection so for another six

months so i came back after like a year

really

of not really being at home to a to a

one-year-old daughter who

barely recognized me you know she would

push me away she would

you know and i'd interact and i'll be

playing dolls on

on the floor barbies and my wife came in

one day and

i was playing with these barbies and she

thought i'd lost the plot

she's like she's like you know got these

barbies together trying to make her

laugh trying to make her smile

because for the last year she's just

seen this pent up

war machine you know and i've come back

and i'm not

i'm not very easy to deal with you know

during those transitions you know i need

a bit of time

what do you mean by that you're not very

easy to deal with in those transitions

well you come back from

you can't just take a hit even though

i can do it i can take your head off put

a different head on

but that transition of

kicking doors down to being back with a

family i need

even now when i come back off of filming

when i come back i need

before we actually start getting on

again you know before i start settling

back into the into

into the family it takes about two weeks

and again me and my partner are the best

most compatible partners in the world

the teamwork that we have is

absolutely amazing you know hence why

i've been with her for 16 years been

married for

14. um but it still takes that two-week

period

for me of me breaking her her routine

of me coming in you know taking over

everything you know

with the kids taking taking the kids to

school taking ruining her

her life that she's built i come in like

a storm

and it takes two weeks before that storm

normally calms down and we go all right

you know

i cannot argue in to this but you know

just disagreements just

control issues can you know it's it's

like two worlds colliding right

and then after the two weeks as

everything settles i'm away again

i might be on tour i might be like i'm

in australia for two months now it's

like

so it's that constant communication or

that constant you know crossing over of

of worlds that you need to really sort

of mold together

and as my life is getting more and more

and i'm not in these high

octane situations i'm not in these life

or death situations

um it's becoming easier and easier

you talk you know i had actually a

military commando sat in in the seat as

well

who talked about his experiences and

when he came back from war he was

talking to me about the ptsd he suffered

and um just being around the house and

you know seeing the tin can stacked on

the shelf at home and

and like you know barking at his wife

because they weren't straight and things

like that and feeling that you know

feeling some of the disciplines of all

coming home with him

you i've seen you talk on this topic so

i know that

you know you've you've handled that in a

different way

but um what are some of the the things

that have come

come back with you from war that you

don't like

or that you think aren't helping you in

your in your personal life

um they're two different worlds

you know you deal with dark humor

dark banter to get you through certain

situations

and that dark humor and dark banter and

dark way of talking is a norm to you

because you live and breathe that and

sometimes that comes out you know

and only when i'm doing a military style

show

you know you you come out you might say

something which is a for me

probably a throwaway comment or a bit of

banter

then you realize there's a hundred of

crew members listening and there's

nothing

you know it just might be i might say

something about someone or my it's never

direct you know it's always an

indirect conversation that we have um

it's that military banter that i [ __ ]

hate sometimes i hear myself talking

like a military man and i hate it i

might say

military words hoofing honking was

you know there's loads of them out there

um and i think to myself why are you

talking like that

but it's just come it just comes out

because i might find myself in in a

high octane situation in a stressful

situation in a in an

aggressive situation and a violent

situation which which i revert back to

what i know works which is this

ultimately this military person

but then i think [ __ ] you know i'm not

in a military environment i'm not in in

in a i'm in society you know i've got

you know

and it's controlling that that i find

really difficult

um but knowing also acknowledging that

it needs to be controlled

you know i'm not in the military anymore

you know and i always hate this once a

marine

always a marine you know you get people

go hey once a marine always a marine i'm

like

i was a marine 12 years ago 10 years ago

you know now i'm i'm a media um tv

presenter

i'm now an extinguished author i'm now

you know

i like to say like you know about

mindset my mindset girl go around do my

tours you know i'm in a completely

different space but

i have to pull upon this young soldier

every now and then in order to get the

job done because i know that that works

you know i know that if i do that but i

just need to fine-tune it i need to

buffer it around the edges which again

is a work in progress you know i i put

my hands up when i go [ __ ] hell do

you know what i mean

yeah i shouldn't have said that i

shouldn't have done that you know and

i'm the first one to admit it

but people have to realize that listen

it's it's

it's a work in progress it's not

something i can change overnight

you need to understand me you need to

understand who i am

um in order to to acknowledge that okay

well [ __ ] hell yeah that was a bit

uncomfortable to see some of the things

that we do with the recruits

you know they're like [ __ ] you know and

she's like he's on on his knees and

you're

you're literally you know saying to him

that you stay there

you know if you think you're not worthy

you know if you if you're a piece of

[ __ ] blah blah blah

but it's hard for people to see that and

to watch that but ultimately there's

always a

positive motivator behind that so

that's where people i think get get

confused is like negativity is a great

fuel it's a great source to use to get

to where you need to be

but only if there's a positive motivator

ahead of it

so you can't use negativity to get

through a situation

if there's not a positive motivator

because

all you'll do is you'll feel off in the

negative lane because there's no

positive motivators to aim towards it's

like a plow

like i say the plow is is the positive

motivator

and the fuel is the negative with

aggression whether it's

revenge whether it's you know prove

people wrong whether it's you know these

are all things that

that that fuel you but you

be sure that there's always a positive

motivator so when i'm

talking like that to the recruits what

i'm doing it's believe it or not

to get the best out of them to make them

realize what they're capable of make

them

bring their attributes and and and um

personality to the forefront so they can

identify who they are

and a lot of people they bring that to

the forefront or i fit that mirror on

them and they look at themselves and

they go oh

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