I started doing it and I'm sitting there

in the park and I'm like, do I really

need to be an [ __ ]

>> Not today. Yeah, tomorrow. Tomorrow.

>> Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Cara Swisser

>> and I'm Scott Callaway.

>> We're going to do something a little

different today and start with a

voicemail from a listener who's going to

explain the situation. Let's play a

clip.

>> Hi. After listening to Pivot today, I

saw that James Murdoch is buying part of

Box Media and I was curious how that

might change the freedom you guys have

on your various podcasts. Anyway, love

your shows. Just finished burn book and

listen to all your podcasts. Keep up the

good work. Jenny from Texas.

>> Oh, that's a very good question. Jenny

from Texas. So, in case people don't

know what she's talking about, James

Murdoch's company, Lupa Systems, is

acquiring Vox Media Podcast Network, New

York Magazine, and the Vox site. Um, the

other parts of Vox Media, including

Eater, The Verge, SP Nation, are

becoming a a different company, a new

independent company. The deal is

expected to close in the coming weeks.

There's a few legal legalities and this

and that. From what I understand, Lupa

Systems has not disclosed the purchase

price, but it's reportedly around 300

million. the podcast network is the mo

the more attractive asset that we love

New York magazine and it does rather

well um and love docs uh and so explain

Scott people want to know what we think

about this because a lot of people have

bad information one first of all Jim

Bankov is staying as CEO of this unit um

it's a spin-off essentially uh of of

these assets and which have been fast

growing so explain Mr. business. Explain

the situation.

>> Well, about a decade ago, people

thought, wouldn't it be great to

aggregate kind of this alternative media

or build alternative media companies for

a new world? And so, Buzzfeed, Food 52,

CNET, Vice, was it called Mike,

Mashable,

>> Mike? Yeah.

>> And Vox. And back when they thought

probably six, seven years ago that if we

bring together sort of these good little

media assets, some digital, some not,

and group them together, we can spack it

and it'll go public at 1 23 billion. And

so Jim logically, the CEO of Vox thought

this is a good idea. bought New York

magazine, had a bunch of very, you know,

fast growing websites, Eater, Verge, you

know, Vulture, and then started some

naent podcasts, right? And then

essentially what happened was uh the

market never said, okay, there was never

the bloom came off the rose

>> of all these companies. But basically

they're competing against monopolies who

extract rents and then their margin was

you know the margin of all these

companies is Google and Meta and

Amazon's opportunity and they've slowly

but surely sucked the oxygen out of the

room and BuzzFeed from peak valuation to

sales price was off 86% food 52 lost 96%

of its value CNET lost 94% of its value

was I think uh basically went bankrupt

but sold some assets was down at least

93% % uh Mashable off 80%. I mean just

on and on and on and on. Tumblr, my

favorite, 1.1 billion to 3 million. Uh

if you're an investor in Union Square

Ventures, thank God that the guy with

the Caesar's haircut, I forgot his name,

was able to convince

probably one of the weaker CEOs in

digital history to buy his bag of [ __ ]

for 1.1 billion tons.

>> That was Marissa Mayer at Yahoo.

>> Marissa Mayor, right? So effectively

this has just not worked out. Now what

and what to be you know Jim our guy who

we like has always said Scott be honest

and always told us to be honest so let

me be honest. They spent a lot of money

to create a company with negative

synergy. There's some real assets there.

New York Magazine is a trophy iconic

asset. Um the the sites themselves, the

digital assets are actually do pretty

well, but again see above they're in

they're swimming upstream against

giants. And then the smaller division

that started out as an afterthought has

become the growth engine and the crown

jewel. And Jim is a smart guy and

realized that the whole was less than

the sum of its parts and basically

decided to break them up into what was

going to be three buckets. But my

understanding is, and I do not have

inside information here, and I don't

want it, is that Jim Murdoch or James

Murdoch, who wants to be in the media

business, said, "I'll take New York

Magazine because I think he likes it and

it's an iconic asset. And what I really

want is the podcast network, which is

growing. I'll stop there. Where did I

get that right?"

>> No, you got that all right. And I think

Jim of all of them has cannilally moved

that into a space. Obviously, Buzzfeed

uh just bought by Byron uh Allen. Um you

know, they've all Vice has had a much

less happy

situation. I don't know where that went.

Like there were a lot of them and it was

very exciting. And one of the reasons I

sold my tiny little site to Vox many

years ago, Recode, was cuz they were

ridiculously priced and were sort of

pricing me at I was even a smaller

minnow. And so when I got to Vox, um, I

I I understood the ad market was really

a problem here. Although we did great,

let me just The only thing you're

leaving out is so much great journalism

by so many of these sites and so much

really interesting independent media.

Absolutely. Um, all the Verge, Eater,

um, you know, all of them and New York

Magazine just won a the national the

general excellence award and the

national magazine awards. Wonderful.

>> It was punches above its weight class.

It's like the HBO of magazines is the

way I would describe it.

>> Right. Exactly. It's amazing. Um, and

so, uh, so anyway, so it it's it's

really nice parts. They're really nice

parts, but what happened was exactly

what Scott said and what I thought,

which is one of the reasons I went to

Jim 12 years ago and said, I'm going to

start this little podcast called um, uh,

was Recode Decode at the time or might

have been something else. I don't

remember what it was. and cuz I really

did have an interest in this area and

felt it was shifting and then they added

on the Ezra was on there. Um there's a

whole bunch uh today explained a bunch

of things and what essentially happened

after that after that I met Scott

Galloway and the rest is history like

we've done really well

>> bald man with the erectile dysfunction

Murdoch it just all makes sense

>> in Germany in the Murdoch

>> in the Murdoch and I worked for Murd so

rich isn't it how did this happen I know

right I know people are thinking it's

very funny for me especially because I

knew James from a million years ago when

he was actually around for digital stuff

um very early when I was covering the

early digital industry and he tried very

hard to move his family's company

digitally. But Rupert always did

something idiotic like whether it was

the way they handled MySpace or there

was so many I can't even tell you. I

just like Disney, they had 19 of these

things and especially the iPad news

thing that I thought was ridiculous. Um

and so I w I we left we left the Murdoch

Empire largely over um Rupert over

problems. He was he was doing all sorts

of nefarious things and we wanted to

come out on our own. Um and then ended

up selling to Vox and so everything

comes around essentially. I met Scott,

we built Pivot and we built each of our

other stuff on and all the prof stuff

which is wonderful. Um and over time in

our recent renegotiation we became

partners with Vox and they sell our

advertising. They help us mount the

events which they're excellent at and

Scott has his has his has his own way of

doing things. he just started a great

Substack and so it's a really actually

fertile time and but there's all these

different configurations and I would say

for people to understand they are we we

I have met with uh James Murdoch and uh

his uh wife um Katherine who is also

very involved in this uh I have nothing

but good feelings for them I don't have

good feelings for his father neither

does he um which has been well

documented um and so we have complete

freedom to do what we want we own these

podcasts s that we have. Scott owns his,

I own mine, and we own pivot together in

a in a um in a death grip to the end for

whoever which one of us survives. Um and

uh and so we'll be keep doing what we

want and we really like working with

Jim. We and now this other gym and uh

and the rest of it and we hope there'll

be more, you know, synergies between

them. We're we're not like a total

believer in all synergy, but they've got

some cool uh things like Art Basle and

um a number of number film festival,

which I'll be at uh interviewing Mark

Maron on stage. And so there's lots of

opportunities here, but most of the

mostly it's not going to change from,

you know, not going to change our deal.

We like the deal we got. Um we again own

our things and so uh we're happy to take

suggestions from, you know, the same

thing like Jim will suggest something.

will either ignore him or will not like

he might have a he just had a great idea

to this morning for me. Um and I'll take

it. Uh so and I really do think of James

Murdock has always been very smart

digitally. I think um uh I think I we I

like him. He's not you can't just put

Murdoch on it and say they suck. I I

would agree about Rupert Murdoch. I

would not be owned by Rupert Murdoch and

uh and we're not owned by anyone. So I

think that's it. Anything else? Well,

when Reuters called me, I said, "Look,

we like the gyms and we have, you know,

we have a lot of power here and we

didn't ask for anything. We just asked

for everything to stay the same. I sell

>> Pivot is a joint venture between

Swisser, Galloway, and Vox. You own on I

own PropG, but both on and PropG uses

Vox for we do a revenue split where they

sell our ads. And if we could have I

mean, this is going to sound

self-absorbed. We could have killed this

deal. And we didn't. And we just we

didn't ask for anything extra. We just

said, "Yeah, we just want things to stay

the way they are." And Jim Bangoff has

never once

asked me to tone it down, to stop the

dick jokes, to reconsider.

>> That doesn't work.

>> No, you have. But you're you're trying

to save me from myself, and you're also

posing for your woke friends.

>> Oh, stop it. You're so much woker than

No.

>> Anyways, I'm so much wer than you. I'm

the woke.

>> But let me go to just some of the the

learnings here. And

Basically, the business model for tech

has been find have great technology,

find a very compelling leadership team

that's able to craft a narrative to

raise more capital than anyone else,

deliver an unbelievable product at below

price and then consolidate the market

and then start sucking the oxygen out of

the entire ecosystem. So, let me give

you an example. And then everybody else

gets crushed. Google and Meta have been

increasingly pushing users away from

external sites in in favor of their AI

overviews which they can monetize. So

Huffpo

between 2022 and 2025, so basically the

last 3 years that we have data on this,

Huffpost's organic search traffic has

been cut in half. The Washington Post

down by nearly half. Business Insider

has seen their organic traffic cut in

half. NT organic search as a as a share

of their total traffic fell from roughly

44% to 36.5%.

And the Wall Street Journal's organic

search as a as a share of their total

traffic fell from 29% to 24%. And let me

just go back in history and pat myself

on the back in 2006 when I joined the

board of the New York Times and

literally my first meeting I said they

said okay you're the digital guy which

we do. I'm like shut off Google. Don't

let them crawl your content because

eventually they're going to commoditize

your content,

>> right?

>> Stop driving traffic to us and all

you're doing is building them into the

ultimate toll booth.

>> That's correct.

>> And Martin Nenholtz, who's a very smart

guy, said, "Well, if we can't figure out

a way to compete against Google and

we're making money from the traffic they

send us, then shame on us." I'm like,

"Yeah,

go to go to Murdoch, go to the New

Houses, go to the Financial Times and

consolidate and turn off Google and then

license your content to the highest

bidder." And at that point, Microsoft

had Bing and we would have been able to

get a lot of money and say, "Look, if

you if you want to crawl this gorgeous

content from Thomas Freiedman and from

Vogue and from the FT, you got to pay

us." But instead they said no, we like

the traffic. They were pursuing this

eyeballs thing and now it's way too late

and these companies are the internet and

very few people go directly to NY the

New York Times.com. They get served

stuff on Meta. That's how they decide

where they're going or the the Google is

now entirely they don't take you to the

best place. They take you to a place

they can further monetize. And Jim, you

know, Jim is managed to get on the last

helicopter out of Saigon.

>> Oh, wait. Do you want to hear some of

the threads I thought of? I thought I'll

be I'll test the limits of our new

ownership.

>> I was walking around Lisbon yesterday

and it was beautiful and I was bored.

>> So, as soon as I saw the announcement, I

thought, I'm going to test the limits of

my freedom. My first thread, my first

thread was alternative media is like a

vegan restaurant. Virtue signaling loses

money and a billionaire bails you out.

That was my first one. My second one was

that that picture of Jim Brooff and

James Murdoch where it looks like the

30-year reunion of Abbercrombie and

Pitch. They're both very handsome.

>> They're very handsome.

>> And I wrote Romeo and Michelle's high

school reunion 2 post transition. That

one I'm especially proud of. And

>> oh, okay, last one. And then we

>> What was What was my What was my third

one? Oh god. I wrote something about Oh,

no. It just, you know, late late stage

capitalism. But anyways, and and then I

started doing it and I'm sitting there

in the park and I'm like,

>> do I really need to be an [ __ ]

>> Not today. Yeah, tomorrow. I'm like,

give them their moment.

>> Give them their moment.

>> Give them their moment.

>> They'll be an [ __ ] later

>> before we start making their lives

difficult.

>> No, you know what? Let me let me just

end this because we got to end this. So,

two things. Jim B, he said, we don't we

can say whatever we want. I don't see

that problem from James Murdoch or

Katherine Murdoch at all. They might be

irritated by us, but there's no going to

be no change in that. And let me be I

hate to say this, but Rubert Murdoch

never asked me to change a thing. Like

that is one thing I never experienced

when I worked at the walls. I just don't

I think he's a heinous piece of well I

think he's heinous the way he he's done

Fox News and the other stuff, but and

has degraded democracy quite a bit, but

he's not James is not him. And so, but

but that said, and Murdoch never meddled

in my stuff and and he certainly could

have um for for my entire time there. I

just didn't like him. Um but um but one

of the things we have to say, we we get

to do what we want. We will do what we

want. And also just I know Scott was

sort of putting a sort of an ugly

picture on it, but actually New York

Magazine is uh profitable. So are the

pod the podcast networks are doing great

and very profitable. Uh a lot of these

websites are. So, it's not like it's

just not a like a it's not a crazy

business, but it's not these are not

suffering properties. And last of all, a

lot many of them most of them provide

amazing journalism. Uh, and I I think

David Haskell deserves all due credit

for New York Magazine winning that

award. And awards are one thing, but

they certainly they were up against some

amazing uh journalism this year from The

Atlantic and from ProPublican Wired. Uh,

so uh they're very good property. He's

bought some good properties here um in

that regard. It's not they're not

falling knife properties. Um, but we'll

see what we can do. Let's see what he

does.

>> They make money, but the the crown

jewel, shockingly, of all this is the

podcast. New York Magazine is a vanity

asset.

>> It is, but it does. Okay. It doesn't

It's not It does fine.

>> You become one of the sexiest men in

Soho when your rap is I own New York

Magazine.

>> We're going to stop there. It's a very

It does journalism, too. Anyway,

>> that's

So is NPR. It doesn't make any money.

it. Yeah, but this one does. So, anyway,

speaking of things not making money, we

have some IPO news to get to. First up,

SpaceX has filed an IPO prospectus, and

it is revealing the company brought in

$791

million in profit in 2024. It swung back

to $4.9 billion in losses in 2025. For

context, 200 companies in the S&P 500

had more revenue than SpaceX last year,

including Tesla. also revealed in the

file, by the way, they buy a lot of

stuff from Tesla. There's a lot of

roundt tripping happen at the these

companies. It also reve all all

controlled by Elon Musk. It also

revealed in the filing, Anthropic is

paying SpaceX and thank God for it,

$1.25 billion per month through uh May

2029 as part of the compute deal that

two signed, meaning Grock will not be

using that space in Colossus 1 and two.

SpaceX is reportedly targeting targeting

a $1.7 trillion valuation. I mean it

goes on and on and on. on a lot of these

a lot of words like um human I don't

know like connection there's AI

mentioned a lot just it's this business

is not economically and mass speaking

it's not worth 1.7

I mean it's just the Elon that that guy

gets a lot of uh credit for for for

using this number um because even the

stuff they're promising seems

problematic but he's not he hasn't done

it before he just moves from one lily

pad to the other in terms of from Tesla

to this. But the big the big winner in

this in that I read is Starlink does

great. The others Grock and um the

rocket company is not so much. Go for

it.

>> I got a lot.

>> Okay, good. I can't wait. I'm excited.

>> Yeah. What was

>> Spit it out, Scott.

>> At 3:00 a.m. I was reading the S1. What

were you doing?

>> I know you were.

>> First off, I have some notes here. The

first 14 pages of the S1

>> are pictures of rockets.

>> AI is mentioned 1,200 times in the S1.

There are 277 pages of the perspectives.

For context, it's longer than The Great

Gatsby and The Catch in the Rye. And

some direct quotes from the filing.

These are direct quotes. We do not want

humans to have the same fate as

dinosaurs. Well, thank God you're here,

Elon. For decades, a reality where

humanity travels between the planets and

the stars has felt tentalizingly close.

But still,

>> would you mind if I ate my protein bar

where you do this because I'm hungry and

I also am fascinated. Keep going.

>> For for decades, a reality where

humanity travels between the planets and

the stars has felt tantalizingly close,

but still locked in the pages and

screens of science fiction. The sun

contains approximately 99.8% 8% of the

solar systems energy. And as a result,

we believe it is the only truly scalable

solution to terrestrial energy

constraints in the age of AI.

Oh, Jesus [ __ ] Christ. All right,

hold on.

>> Woke.

>> We believe the next paradigm shift for

humanity is the creation of a resilient,

perpetually expanding, space fairing

civilization. Ultimately,

>> sexy voice, please. I mean, I need a

more sexy. ultimately preparing us to

Kardashev type 2 status defined as

defined in the filing itself as a

civilization that harnesses the full

energy output of the sun. Remember we

work its mission was to elevate the

world's consciousness.

>> Yes. No, this seems like he sounds like

a Mayan. He sounds like a Mayan but go

ahead.

>> So let's talk about the numbers here.

Headline valuation 1.8 trillion. He

they're whispering they can go out at

two. That's roughly the GDP of Canada.

So let that marinate. that the core

business is genuinely an excellent

business,

>> right?

>> Starlink generated 3.26 billion in

revenue in a single quarter with 1.2

billion in operating income. That's 36%

operating margin on a monopoly satellite

inner business, internet business with

no serious competitors in sight. It's a

great business. If this were the whole

company, it would be one of the great

businesses of our era. And then, but the

problem is it's not. Stapled to this

rocket ship is XAI, a business that is

clinically speaking a money furnace. In

2024, XAI lost 1.6 billion on 2.6

billion in revenues. By 2025, losses

ballooned to 6.5 billion on 3.2 billion

in revenue. So revenue revenue went up

20% but losses went up 310%. That's

>> Can I ask you quickly, these revenues

don't seem like killer? It's 30%. It's

not like wow. It's they're not wow

growth, right? Is it's sort of good

solid. Am I wrong there?

>> No, it's Well, let's just let's just

talk about SpaceX, the best business.

It's growing 20% a year and it's trying

to go out at 100 times revenue. When

Google went public, it was growing 240%

a year and went out at 10 times

revenues. So, just back to back to XAI.

XI is losing money on the way to losing

more money in in Q12 2026 alone the net

loss of 4.3 billion on 4.7 billion in

revenue total capex 10.1 billion in 90

days 7.8 8 billion of that uh for AI.

Cash on the balance sheet um cratered

from 25 billion to 16 billion in just 3

months. They burn 9 billion in cash in a

single quarter. That's a hund00 million

a day. That's not investing in the

future. It's it's the future billing you

in advance,

>> right? Can this anthropic thing is

critical. Do you think he's moving into

being the infrastructure player rather

than the AI player here? building and

providing infrastruure. Tim him having

spent too much capbacks thinking that

>> X AI his AI would need it and he woke up

and realized he didn't. It's like this

has happened to me a million. Every time

I start a company, I raise too much

[ __ ] money. I go get a giant office

base in Soho and before I know it, I'm

renting it out to a bunch of shitty

startups to try and recoup some of the

capital. That's what h happened here,

>> right?

>> Total debt is for that, right?

Presumably from the anthropic,

>> total debt on the balance sheet is 29

billion. Um, so just for context, that's

more debt than it's on the Delta

Airlines, United Airlines, and American

Airlines combined with all their planes

and and those they carry passengers.

SpaceX has Starship, which has cost over

15 billion in development and is still

on its 12th test mission. The bottom

line, you're being asked to pay 1.75

trillion for a great satellite internet

company, a rocket business that loses

money, an AI product losing 6 billion a

year and falling further behind its

competitors that has 29 billion in debt,

and a CEO who, and this is my favorite

part of the filing, purchased $131

million of his own recalled cyber trucks

with company cash.

>> Right. He's propping up Tesla. Propping

up Tesla. Right.

>> So, in some Starlink is the golden

goose, an amazing company. Everything

else is Elon's hobbies. And at this

valuation, you're paying full price for

all of them. So, you know, Snow White is

[ __ ] hot, but you gota if you marry

her, you're taking on these little

nonvalue ad weirdos. Uh this is so this

company you have an amazing company

buried in all of these other money

furnaces,

>> right? I like money.

>> He's asking you to pay essentially 100

times revenue.

>> People will so talk about that because

look it is not I I read it. I'm like,

"Wow, this is not a there's one good

business in there, right? Really good

business." And and by the way, easy to

disrupt that business by the people will

come into this business and there'll be

more competitors. Um and uh and so that

that's my worry about Starlink is like

sure he has the win for today. It

doesn't mean he will have the win

forever just like Tesla. Um, the second

thing is it will it doesn't matter

because people will just buy into this

and run it up because it's him and these

promises which you left out a little bit

here is there's going to be all these

robots in your home. There's going to be

he he made a lot of promises in this in

this perspectus too about the future

like you have to assume he's going to

kill it in robots and by the way I have

heard from many people his robot

technology is really advanced but it has

to get to people right it's got to it's

got to get to people it's got to become

a product um and so just hand it feels

very hand wavy this entire thing but I

don't think it's going to matter I mean

be be a Wall Street person and say you

know what would you do as an investor

faster here.

>> Uh you might want to play it for the

pop, but I actually think that there's

going to be a ton of bill people and

analysts that will look at this thing.

The more scrutiny on this thing, the

worse it's going to be for the IPO and

does it go out at 1.8 trillion? I

wouldn't be surprised if the bankers try

and manufacture scarcity and it gets a

small pop, but I think by the end of the

year it's well below a trillion dollars.

There's just no there's no way to

justify this thing is a cash

incinerator.

And also certain components of the

business feel very weiworky in the fact

that as they grow they burn more cash.

There's no operating leverage.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Even with even with this

entropic deal because that's all he can

sell. That's right. It's like he's

selling the chairs or something. Right.

I mean

>> he built out infrastructure for that he

doesn't need because his his AI is not

growing the way.

>> Right. Exactly. And he's got it. He's

got this colossus and of course he's

facing lawsuits all over the place

because he's going to buy more of these

methane engines. That's going to and

trust me that they're going to put a

stop to that eventually. Um, so so what

would you how would you do it here?

People are listening. What would you do

here?

>> I won't tell you what to do because I

have been wrong about Tesla. I thought

Tesla was a sell in 2017 and it's gone

up 8x.

>> No, you were right. But you were wrong

about what people would do.

>> I think we have to squarely say I was

wrong.

>> Okay.

>> So what I'm going to do is if someone

called me and no one's going to call me,

but if Elon Musk called me and said, "Do

you want allocation in the IPO?"

I would probably say sure and I'd sell

it on the first trade. They will

manufacture scarcity. Goldman and

everybody will tell him, "Okay, this is

what it looks like." Put out press

releases saying you're 30 times over

subscribed. It'll get a pop and then get

out again. An amazing business can be a

shitty investment even at some

valuation. And a shitty business can be

an amazing investment at a certain

valuation. This is an amazing business

surrounded by businesses that are not

scaling where he's trying to play

catchup and at a valuation that makes

just abso fuckingutolutely no sense.

>> Yeah.

>> So what I would do X AI in here was a

way to save his ass, his own ass.

Correct.

>> It's a it's it's the cheapest form of

capital he could find by attaching it to

an amazing business such that he could

try and catch up. And even the business,

even the amazing business on its own

which is doing 16 billion in topline

revenue and 8 billion in IBIDA

>> this is Starlink.

>> Yeah. I don't know give it 25 you know

give it a 100 times IDA it's worth 800

billion. 100 times I zeba is no you know

no one trades at that. But you not only

are trying to to get it out at 1 and a

1.7 to 2 trillion, you've attached onto

it all of these businesses that look to

have negative leverage.

>> Andy's using the business to help Tesla

out by buying shitty Cyber Trucks and

everything else.

>> Well, that was the most that was the

most eye popping thing.

>> I know. I agree.

>> Was that it reminded me of and this is

the argument against when corporate or

when governments decide to get start

cosplaying business. the the Irish

government or the UK government said

Delorean is the future and they give

them a bunch of loans and then these

pictures came out of a ton of Deloreans

sitting in a warehouse in Ireland

unsold.

>> So

the the worst product arguably the worst

tech product maybe than the Oculus or

Siri, the worst tech product of the last

decade is hands down the Cybert truck.

>> Cyber Truck. So he went out, a bunch of

them recalled, and he used money from

this organization to buy to buy back

Cybert trucks. You're not supposed to do

that. You're supposed to say, "Okay,

Tesla Tesla has a a a turd of a product

and we're going to take a right down."

And you just take your, you know, you

take your pain. This is Elon brings a

level of awareness, magic. People have

done investing with him. He is an

unbelievable visionary.

But uh you know this goes to something

broader and that is this is all part of

an entity that will cement where I

believe we are now and that is I finally

believe we are squarely in 1999.

>> Yeah I would agree with you. That's what

I felt after looking at I didn't look at

over as carefully but I thought oh no no

no this is not good. This is you know

all I don't really care about the

luminous humanity [ __ ] and flying to

the stars and the sun is going to power

our world. Like that's all his I I I've

had to listen that nonsense from him for

many years and great. I'm glad you think

that. I mean, I don't really care if

everyone if that's what turns him on.

That's great. But it was the the Tesla

thing. There was a several things in

here that were very speaking of

latestage capitalism. I felt it was late

Elon, right? That's what that's what it

felt like to me. But just we'll see.

>> Look, it his job is to get capital as

cheaply as possible. He's going to do

that. Yeah. I think it's smart for him

to do this.

>> That's good for him. Yeah.

>> But I think investors in some if you

look at what happened.

>> So there was a really interesting

analysis done in the FT and that is at

the peak of the dotcom boom about 60% of

GDP growth was coming from capex related

to telco infrastructure and the

internet. It's now 93% is coming from AI

including and I'm loosely and also these

companies will be grouped into that. In

addition, the total capex

inflation adjusted was about 850 billion

in 99 up until that point. Now we're at

about 1 and a.5 trillion.

>> And every time you have over 2 or 3% of

GDP going into the buildout or capex or

something, whether it's railroads or

highways or the telco infrastructure of

the late '9s, two years later, there's a

crash. Two to three years later, there's

a crash. Railroads, all of it.

>> We are there. and and one of these

companies or more of them is going to

experience what every big tech company

has experienced when they're get out

over their skis and that is you're going

to see a 70 to 95% decline in the value

of one or more of these companies.

Nvidia, I mean all these companies are

there's the the expectation

of they're increasing their capbacks 20%

a year while increasing their revenues

optimistically 15% a year. That's

negative operating leverage. And

eventually the music's going to stop

here.

>> Yeah, I felt drunken sailors had a feel

of this. I don't know. I just like

>> Well, the way I would describe it is I

think Nvidia is a casino

and we're all drunk people at the

blackjack pay table and

>> it will affect very good businesses and

then along with the tariffs and all the

other corruption around Trump. It just

gets to be a real problem here.

>> Nvidia is an amazing business. SpaceX is

an amazing business. They should, oh my

god, they should be worth they should be

worth a trillion dollars and 300 billion

respectively. So down about 50 to 80%.

And the technology I think the

technology will live up to its

expectations more on the optimistic side

than the pessimistic side, but the

valuations won't.

>> Yeah. All right. Well, speaking of

which, OpenAI is preparing to

confidentially file a draft of its IPO

perspective as soon as Friday. I expect

you to read it over the weekend and tell

me about it next week. Um, as you're

listening to this, the company is valued

at over $850 billion by private

investors. The things I'm looking at

there is all the cross investments with

Altman involved. I'm probably interested

in that. Um, where the where their where

the trends are in terms of their

subscriptions. Um, and where their spend

is. I think those are the things I'm I'm

looking at. What are you looking at

there very briefly? Well, just to

distill it, to justify the $1 trillion

valuation that OpenAI is pursuing at its

IPO, it needs to grow from 13 billion in

revenue to the to the size of today's

Microsoft in four years. So, they're

saying they're going to be the size of

Microsoft in four years. And I just

don't think revenue did triple to 13

billion, but the company burned 9

billion. And right now, it has negative

momentum relative to Anthropic. And what

they have said is get out right away. We

need the perception that we're the

leader. And also Sam Alman looks at

SpaceX and says there's not room for

there's only so much retail money that's

going to come into the ecosystem. Get

out because it's going to dry up because

if SpaceX goes out of pop and comes

down, retail investors are going to

start to get queasy and then when you

have these enormous IPOs,

in other words, at some point retail

investors are going to run out of money

to invest in these things. So he's like,

"Get out." And the CFO, Sarah Frier, who

I'm shocked still has a job because

she's not towing the company line. She

worked at Goldman and Mckenzie, has

reported previously that colleagues uh

to colleagues at OpenAI saying, "We're

not ready for an IPO because the risk

from its spending commitments."

>> Yeah, I know her. She's a very She's

like that. She's

>> like a Ruth Barrett. She's an adult.

Yeah.

>> The the company is committed to spending

600 billion over the five years across

vendors and their Oracle deal alone

requires 60 billion a year starting in

2027. nearly five times OpenAI's entire

2025 revenue.

>> So

>> again, this is we are squarely a 99

>> 99. All right. Well, we'll go with that.

All right, Scott, let's take a quick

break. When we come back, Jeff Bezos, so

good God. Speaking of billionaires

behaving badly, speaks out on all sorts

of things.

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>> Scott, we're back. Jeff Bezos sat down

for an interview with Andrew Ross

Sorcin, our favorite Canadian on

Wednesday. Let's talk about some of the

things he said. First up, Bezos said

that Trump was more mature and more

disciplined in his second term. The

Washington Post owner defended massive

cuts he made to the newsroom earlier

this year, saying he doesn't want a post

to be a charity. I have some things to

say about that because I think he's the

one that drove it into a wall. Bezos

also backed the idea of eliminating

income taxes for the bottom half of US

earners. Let's hear what he said to say

about his own taxes.

>> People sometimes say that uh that you

know I don't pay taxes. So true. I pay

billions of dollars in taxes and it's a

per again if people want me to pay more

billions, right?

>> Then let's have that debate. But don't

pretend, you know, that this that that's

going to solve the problem. You could

you could double the taxes I pay and

it's not going to help that teacher in

Queens. I promise you.

>> Let's try.

>> Let's try.

>> Let's try. Let's see what happens.

>> Let's see what happens. Jeff,

>> if we take his effective tax rate from

16 or 17% to 32 or 34 like the rest of

us, I don't know. Let's just give it a

whirl.

>> Let's just give it a whirl. Let's see

what happens.

>> So disingenuous in this interview. Let

me let me start and then I'll let you

go. First up, the more mature. Come on,

Jeff. Like seriously. Like, I get that

there's a lot of face work going on and

a lot of other enhancements, but it's

gone to your [ __ ] head. Like, I get

what he means. It's good for me. Instead

of saying more mature, more disciplined

is he's more focused on giving me the

[ __ ] I want. That's I I would just

prefer that if he wouldn't mind like

saying that. Whatever. He can say what

he wants. He's never been a particularly

liberal person, but now he's just he's

just now being just as disingenuous. The

Washington Post thing drove me crazy

because he's the one who kept the same

management in place then hired an

incompetent like Will Lewis uh did

nothing that the New York Times took

moves after Trump left office to do

something. He he created all manner of

situations where people just just left

cut their subscriptions which were which

were slightly growing but they were

definitely stabilizing. And then after

he put his dirty little fingers in the

editorial process, he messed it up. A

huge exodus of talent blaming the talent

which then went to successful properties

like the Atlantic and many other and the

Wall Street Journal and other places

which are doing okay. They're doing

they're they're making businesses. New

York Times, Wall Street Journal, The

Atlantic, everything else. So, every

time he says this, I'm like, why don't

you look over at Lorraine Powell Jobs,

who's managed to do a very nice job over

there at the Atlantic by not meddling

and supporting and not losing money. Um,

the income tax thing I'll let you take,

but it was so full of disingenuous

stuff. And again, let's try Jeff. Even

if you pay billions, you have billions

and you pay the fact that I pay more of

a percentage of my taxes than you. And

then the corpor Don't even get me

started with corporations. So anyway, uh

the whole thing was and also he didn't

look well in my opinion and since he

spent so much time on cosmetic stuff, I

feel like I can comment upon this. Go

ahead.

>> Jeff Bezos pays himself $82,000, just

enough such that he can claim a child

tax credit, which by the way he takes,

and then he puts all of his additional

money and such that the value of his

shares go up. He borrows against those

shares, not not triggering a taxable

event. likely has a lot of those shares

in a trust. And then after leveraging

the unbelievable infrastructure and

culture of the great state of

Washington, he then

>> post office everything

>> takes his $120 billion in shares and

moves to Florida to spend more time with

his father and then starts selling

shares. Now granted, just as every

prisoner has an obligation to escape, I

think every individual has an obligation

to avoid taxes. I don't blame him for

tax evasion. I blame our government for

letting him engage in it. But quite

frankly, Jeff, when you start trying to

wallpaper over the tax avoidance of

billionaires by claiming you care about

nurses,

>> teachers,

>> sit the [ __ ] down. Just sit down. This

is a misdirect.

And it's like when Jensen talks about,

"Yes, tax me more." Okay,

thanks guys. But I just don't think

they're in a position when a guy has

when a guy has so optimized the dynamics

of supply and demand of labor such that

his delivery drivers have to pee in

bottles to make their correct

>> quotas. You're just not the person to

pretend to have empathy for that nurse

in Queens. So, I'm not even going to

I'll talk about his idea, but give me

the mother of all eye rolls when Jeff

Bezos

claims to be concerned about the tax

rates of the nurse in Brooklyn. What I

when I've advised or when I was talking

to Andrew Yang when he was running for

president mayor, I said, "You [ __ ] up.

It shouldn't be universal basic income.

It should be basic income." And to get

Republicans on board, you need different

frame it. Don't call it universal basic

income because it sounds like socialism.

call it a negative income tax.

Republicans love tax breaks. I do

believe there's something to the notion

of saying anyone who makes below $50,000

should not only not get taxed, but maybe

get a tax credit in the form of services

or maybe just cash quite frankly because

most of the studies show that when you

create a government infrastructure to

deploy social programs, they're

inefficient and never go away.

>> Just give them the money. Just give them

>> just give them the money. Just cut them

a check. You're in a household, you have

kids, whatever. They did a bunch of

studies in Africa, and quite frankly,

I'm going to be a sexist here. When they

give money to the men, the prostitutes

in the bars do well. When they give

money to the women, the kids get taller

and fatter. You couldn't do that in

America and just give money to single

mothers, which is what I would like to

see happen. But if you gave just gave

money, nationalized healthcare, there's

a lot of good taxation ideas. What he

said was very accurate is that if you

had a tax holiday for people under the

age of 30, he didn't say this, but if

you gave a tax holiday, which is what

he's saying, or cut the taxes of people

making less than $75,000, you don't lose

that much tax revenue. Because it is

true that only 1%, the top 1% in New

York pay 48% of the taxes and the bottom

25% really don't pay much. So, he's

right they wouldn't be giving up much.

But he is just not. We need an

alternative minimum tax on people like

Jeff Bezos. of I believe 60%.

Because the earner that's making 2

million bucks working her ass off as a

baller partner at Scatterenarps in

Manhattan is paying 54. And fine, maybe

she pays maybe the person making 10

billion or 10 million a year pays makes

60%, because here's the whole objective

of taxation.

You want the least taxing tax. If you

start attacking education and food and

housing, you end up

>> with homelessness. Yep.

>> Less educated people, people who put off

their mammogram and die of metastatic

breast cancer. Those are taxes that are

too taxing. An alternative minimum tax

on corporations making above a billion

dollars and people say making over 3

million a year. They don't lose any

happiness. The Baso and also do away

with the estate tax exemption. If the

Bezos children inherit 20 billion

instead of 30, no loss in happiness. But

that 10 billion that could potentially

be divided amongst the million the

$10,000 to the million poorest

households, a lot of incremental

happiness.

>> You know what the the contrast was? His

ex-wife. Like she doesn't say a word.

She doesn't do an interview. She gives

money.

No ribbon cutings, no cosplaying, no

whatever weirdness you're doing to your

body, Jeff. uh just and doesn't lecture

us. That's the tone was what was crazy.

I I I know I got like Ben about the post

stuff, but all of it had this tone. The

post stuff was disingenuous in the

extreme. He's the worst media owner of

any media owner and it's a low [ __ ]

bar. Let me tell you, I take Rupert

Murdoch twice every day of the week and

twice on Sunday to Jeff Bezos. At least

he understands media and likes it. Um,

you know, this the tone was so obnoxious

and this is why this general, you know,

he talked about people demonizing

billionaires. Well, stop stop talking.

stop appearing like I I honestly it it

the the the damage these people are

doing to the brand of capitalism, brand

capitalism and brand AI and brand tech

is so vast that you can see why these

polls are showing up like this way. I

know my own sons who both are incredibly

hard workers

and it has nothing to do with me. They,

you know, they often don't listen to me.

um they don't listen to anything I do at

least and and I'm fine with that. But

they have these feelings, right? It's

just it I don't know. It just and then

it gives rise to too much demonization,

right? Because of the way these people

behave. So I don't know.

>> So I have stories about McKenzie Scott

and Melinda French Gates. I'm involved

in two nonprofits. I'm involved in

something called the Jed Foundation that

tries to train high schools around how

to identify what is kind of normal

strange adolescent behavior and

adolescent behavior that should raise

red flags around depression and suicide

and they leverage the infrastructure of

public schools and educate them and they

are they are amazing. It was started by

a couple that lost their son Jed. It's

run by this wonderful management team.

They do a great job. Right after I sort

of got involved, they called me and said

they did a big thing event and they got

they go we got great news. I'm like

what's that? and he goes, "We got a $10

million wire yesterday and we're trying

to figure out who it's from." Mackenzie

Scott

didn't didn't want an RFP, didn't want

to meet with them, didn't want her name

on anything. She just wired 10 million

bucks. And then another association I

love, the American Institute for Boys

and Men, which focuses on the struggles

and mental health of young men and boys,

run by one of my role models, Richard

Reeves. Melinda French Gates, $10

million. recognizing the majority of her

funds are focused on the struggles in

gender equality and struggles of young

women. But she she said without thriving

young men, women aren't going to

continue to flourish. And she just sends

10 million bucks. And then someone who

shall remain nameless contacted the firm

and I get it. He's trying to be or

contacted one of these companies and

said, "Can I meet with so- and so and

Scott? I want to hear about the

strategy." And I'm like, typical [ __ ]

rich dude. We got to go sing for our

supper. We got to like

>> go talk to him as if it's a business and

return on investment. Whereas these

these women are just like you're doing

good work.

>> Yeah. Excellent. Here you go.

>> Get back to work.

>> You don't hear from him. They definitely

check you out. But it's not It is It's

such a different way of giving. I

>> It really is. There's something

>> I couldn't dislike Jeff Bezos more after

this interview. I thought I honestly

thought

could have pressed him harder. Honestly,

I didn't think Zoro pressed him hard

enough on this stuff and let him get

away with some stuff that I wish he had.

But I that said, we got to see him the

way he is. And that is the way he is.

Folks,

>> let me make the conservative or at least

give some sunshine to conservative part

of this. I can't stand it when people on

the far left say Jeff Bezos didn't earn

his money.

>> Oh, he did

>> because he was born to a single mother

at the at the age when she was 17.

I believe he deserves to have earned

$120 billion. I think we deserve to

elect people who have the backbone to

tax him at 60 or 80%.

But don't slow him down. He's not a bad

person,

>> right?

>> He's doing he's doing what we all do.

He's optimizing for his own

self-interest. You may you may just you

may say he's more self-interested than

some people. Fine. We're not doing our

job. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie

Sanders, you've been in Congress for

[ __ ] ever and the taxes keep going

down under your watch.

>> Yeah. Let's do something.

>> You want to demonize them? No. Tax him.

>> Tax him. That's the best way like to say

take look you whatever you want to do.

Now let me switch to another billionaire

because this was something that

happened. I we have not said a lot. Our

listen some of our listeners are not

going to like what I have to say here

and I don't really care but I do care

but I don't care. Um unexpected sighting

in DC this week. Mark Cuban standing

alongside President Trump. Cuban

endorsed Kla Harris was a big supporter

in 2024. It's been one of Trump's most

vocal critics, but the two appeared

together as the Trump announced a major

expansion of Trump RX's administration's

online drugstore. The site is adding

more than 600 lowcost generic

medications through partnerships with

Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs, Amazon

Pharmacy, and Good RX. At this event,

Trump was asked about his new alliance

with Cuban. It's only on this issue,

just for people to be clear. Let's

listen. It's pretty remarkable seeing

you and Mark Cuban up there and the fact

that obviously Mark endorsed Kla Harris

back in 2020.

>> Well, he made a mistake. It was a big

mistake.

But

>> what does this say about what you two

are building here? The important

>> Well, it says we love people. We love

our country. He wants to he's got a a

good company and he's going to do a lot

of business with this and uh I'm going

to get drugs out through Amazon through

the whole group and we're going to get

drugs out and uh Mark wanted to be a

part of it and I think Mark was very

gracious. He said this is something that

really works.

>> Cuban later posted on X, if anyone

thinks I'm going to put politics ahead

of helping Americans reduce their cost

of healthcare and pharmaceuticals, they

are a [ __ ] idiot. He took that down

because he thought swearing undercut his

argument. He's probably right. Um, let

me just say a few things. The stuff out

there about him making a bank or he's

mobbing up with Trump is it's just not

true. You don't have to like that he

stood there. I get it. I get it. I get

it. But he this this business is to get

drug prices down. He does not make a ton

of money here. He This is more It's not

a charity either. He's trying to build a

business. But this the the stuff that's

out there about what he's doing is just

inaccurate and it's not if you don't

like him standing there and you think he

betrayed you and I saw a lot of these I

now can't like him. I thought he was a

good guy. He is a good guy. He is doing

something that I'm sure makes him deeply

uncomfortable for a very good thing

which is to bring lower prices. He's got

to get in this Trump RX. He essentially

took control of Trump RX in a weird way

because you've got to get these things.

If Trump is doing this site and I hate

that Trump's name is on it, I hate it.

But look, he's an ego mana who puts his

name on every [ __ ] thing and there's

nothing we can do about it. And if he he

sat up there with Biden, you'd love him

for it or whoever a Democratic

president, he would sit up with anyone.

The only thing I would say was that I'm

not sure he got grretched. I sent him a

note. I said, "You just got gretched."

When he when he first he started talking

about this this $1.776

trillion slush fund for people who

criminals who attack the capital, I

don't know. He got grretched. He was

sitting there when Trump was going on

about something that's obviously

illegal or and also a slush fund. I

don't know what would he should he walk

out? Should he leave? I don't know. He

did laugh at the you voted for Kla

Harris. I'm not sure what you do in

situ. Should he have sat there and said

I still would? I don't know. He would

have gotten lost out this deal. I don't

know. And it's not great to have to

stand with Trump. We get it. We get it.

I wouldn't do it. But if I had something

that mattered a lot, I might. And the

only other thing I would say is Zoran

Mandani went there and stood right next

to Trump and everyone praised that. And

I the difference was is but he didn't

insult Trump and he didn't like slap him

or do anything rude. He also didn't say

much and he didn't get gratched. And so

he he needed something for New York and

he got it from Trump. And so I'm not

quite sure what the difference here is

because that's what I think was

happening here with Mark. And you can

hate on me all you want saying I love

the billionaires, but I think what he's

doing is an important thing for bringing

drug prices online and you cannot wait

for 3 years to do so. Your thoughts,

Scott? If your emotions and political

partisanship trump the health of

Americans, then the problem is you, not

Mark Cuban.

The partnership between Trump RX and

Cuban's cost plus drugs will unlock

millions of Americans

in terms of cheaper prices or unlock

cheaper prices for millions of

Americans. Uh, this week's expansion

adds 600 generics, nearly seven times

the previous catalog. They'll be

available to anyone regardless of

insurance status and in many cases the

cash price through cost plus is actually

lower than what insured pay uh insured

people pay at the pharmacy counter after

co-pays. Cost plus Drugs sells the

cancer drug I believe it's called a

tanamibanib

for $17. The same drug runs over $2,000

at conventionalies.

three PBMs um uh Optim RX, CVS Caremark

and Express Scripts control roughly 80%

of the US drug access and are untouched

by this deal. It look something has to

change. And I respect and the US

government has a scale and capital that

no one can match. And if you have

something that's good for America that

requires that scale and that capital,

then you act like a [ __ ] adult.

I shouldn't have said [ __ ] You act

like an adult and you go there. So, you

know, you know, if if you think that

Mark Cuban sold out, then all right, you

go buy people's cancer drugs, I this I

can't imagine Mark enjoyed this, but

helping people get access to life-saving

drugs at a reasonable value is more

important than him getting dragged by a

bunch of bots and people virtue

signaling and and applying purity tests

from their keyboard.

>> Right. I would agree. You just didn't

have the right information. The

inaccuracy is what I as always

inaccuracy desires me. And to say that

that he's going to make bank at this is

just not true. It's just absolutely not

true. And and you again, I I wouldn't

want to have to do this. I don't know if

I could stand next to him, but he's

there for the next three years. And if

someone needs these drugs now, and if he

has to take the reputational hit, that's

fine. I guess that's fine. The fact that

you're dragging him is a pro I I

understand the the and I don't want to

in this case for the first time I

thought derangement. Don't be so [ __ ]

deranged that you don't understand what

Mark just did which is he had to like

put his like ego in a in his pocket. He

remains by the way Mark is not I would

say he's liberal or conservative. He's

quite it can vary all over the place,

but there is absolutely no way Mark

Cuban would vote for Trump. I at this

moment in time or support Trump in

politically. So, I don't know what you

want from him, but to me, I thought it

was just a bad a bad um look for for the

left. I thought I really did. I just was

sort of disappointed. Very disappointed.

So, but they're going to drag us for it.

So, too bad. I don't care. All right,

Scott. Let's go on a quick break. When

we come back, we'll talk about Nvidia's

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Scott, we're back with more news. Let's

talk about Nvidia's latest earnings. You

just called them a casino. The company's

profit for the quarter was over 58

billion. They're benefiting from what's

happening now, which is up 211%

from a year earlier. That is a number.

It's not 30%. It's a lot. 3 years ago,

profit was 2 billion. Nvidia projected

sales in the current quarter would reach

91 billion and it would uh as spending

on AI infrastructure would reach 2 to

three trillion in 2030. This is an

insane growing streak, but like you

said, they're benefiting from this huge

spend by all these other companies. Uh

thoughts very quickly.

>> Well, not a casino. They're the house.

>> Okay.

>> All of these companies spending just a

crazy amount of money on 1.6 trillion on

capex are kind of drunk gamblers is the

way I would describe it. And they're

benefiting from it. They're the house.

They're the house when billionaires show

up, sharks with who are drunk and have

unlimited credit at the casino. That's

the way I would describe it. But just in

terms of the earnings, the revenue was

81 billion, up 85% year-on-year, which

was a beat. Earnings per share was a

beat. Data center revenue 75 billion, up

92% as you said, year-on-year accounting

for 92% of total revenue. Again, a beat.

Their Q2 guidance 91 billion above the

86 billion expectations. Another beat.

And their shareholder returns dividend

was raised 25x from 1 cent to 25 cents

per share. 80 billion in new buybacks

authorized. And I mean the reason he's

on that plane to China is there's no

shipments right now and he he's like he

looks at the stock price and thinks I

have got to continue to be

>> continue.

>> Yeah. And the only thing that's I found

really interesting here was despite

beating on every every conceivable

metric, the stock was flat, which says

to me that so the expectations of the

stock price are so enormous now that

they don't they people don't expect

Nvidia to beat, they expect them to

massively beat, which says to me that

the first time Nvidia even whispers

things might be slowing down, it it

craters. So unbelievable company, 15th

beat in a row, but I just think so the

expectations that are built into this

valuation. I think it's the most

valuable company in the world now.

>> Yeah.

>> Um are pretty significant as evidenced

by the fact that it beat on every

conceivable metric and the stock didn't

move.

>> Right. Right. That's interesting. That's

a really good point. Anyway, we'll see.

We'll see what happens. There's a lot.

It's it's precarious

is what I fragile.

>> By the way, stocks off 2% today.

>> Yeah. But let me see a lot. Several

different Wall Street people call me in.

They said, "Everything feels so

fragile." So, we'll see. All right,

Scott. One more uh quick break. We'll be

back for predictions.

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Okay, Scott, bring your predictions in a

second. I just want to note we're going

to be off on Memorial Day uh for

Tuesday. would not be we'll be taping a

show on Memorial Day for Tuesday.

>> All right. Oh, I'm sorry. Um, so I have

one

we talked about late state or 99, but I

I'm I'm going to I just can't help it. I

don't think SpaceX is going to price

near $2 trillion.

>> Okay.

>> The financial suggest

>> I think you're going for it.

>> Well, you're going to have so many

people pouring over this S1 and it's

just pretty ugly. You just read this

thing and you start thinking, okay, this

feels

this feels a little bit, you know,

Iawasa. It just it it's a lot. And if

and if you take each of the three

business lines, space, connectivity and

AI, and apply a comparable price to

sales multiple to each, Rocket Lab for

space, VSAT for connectivity, and

anthropic for AI, which are very

generous, you know, health healthy

valuations and you add them up, you end

up with a valuation of 547 billion. My

my hero on this stuff, Asat Motorin,

valued the thing at 1.1 trillion. And if

you double each of those price to sales

multiples,

um, you assume that each business will

command a valuation that is two times

the typical market rate, you are still

about $750 billion away from SpaceX's

projected valuation.

>> Yeah.

>> So

>> that's being kind. You're saying that's

being

>> if you just get very aggressive and

value every piece of this as a leader in

its respective field

>> and add the Elon plus,

>> you add you get 600 billion and then you

go, okay, Elon effect, double it, 1.2

trillion. So, I've I've always been

wrong around Elon, but I'm saying I

think it's going to I think two China is

a real stretch for here and it's going

to price below that.

>> All right.

>> And then the other one is just boring

one. There's I think you can expect a

deal between the US and Cuba in the

coming months.

>> Cuba is currently in a fullblown crisis.

I absolutely think the smartest thing we

could do is be providing humanitarian

aid and let people decide that they want

to be the 51st state or at least get

along with us.

>> Yeah, I agree.

>> The collapse is comparable. Well, it's

not getting any news because of

everything else going on. But the

collapse is literally comparable to the

1990s crash that followed the fall of

the Soviet Union.

>> Yep.

>> Between December of 2025 and April of uh

26, Cube received just one of the eight

monthly fuel shipments its economies

required requires to function.

>> And blackouts are now, get this, 20

hours a day.

>> I mean, it's crazy. No, we should just

help them

>> 100%.

>> part of the world again. And uh and but

there's going to be a deal here because

Rubio is reportedly having secret talks

with Ral Castro's grandson, bypassing

official Cuban channels. Trump told

reporters in February, Cuba wants to

make a deal. Just yesterday, Rubio sent

video message to the Cuban people,

proposing 100 million in aid, and

blaming Cuba's leaders for shortages of

electricity, food, and fuel. Uh Rubio

was born to two Cuban immigrants, and

this is a deal that he has personal

investment in. He sees this as his run,

his next

>> his

president.

>> All the people

>> sets him up well for a 2028 run. Cuba is

in a deep dark corner. And also Trump,

he doesn't want another military

excursion. There's just there's no

[ __ ] way.

>> There's a way to do this. Just let it

fall apart and we come in and help pick

up the pieces.

>> It's already Well, it's falling apart,

>> right? You know what I mean? It's like,

you know, interestingly, I agree with

you here because I do think it should be

welcomed back into the nations. It's

I've always wanted to go there. You

know, my my actually everyone in my

family has been there but me, which is

interesting.

>> I've been there. It's great.

>> Yeah. That's I just feel like it's it's

a wonderful people and it'll help Rubio

immeasurably. This is at the heart of

his presidential camp. You understand

that? Like it's very clear for at least

for Florida. Um and uh and one of the

things that speaking of collapse, I've

heard from so many foreign affairs

people who I really trust and think are

smart that Russia is very in much

distress. Putin is under much stress

right now because of the situation in

that that in Ukraine, the economy,

everything else. And that they had

thought this is the first time they see

a light at the end of the tunnel,

Putin's rule. Just saying that. Just

putting that out there which was

interesting and

>> I gonna say it as a lie at the end of I

think the end is nigh.

>> The end is nigh. Yes. Whatever. Anyway,

so it's just interesting and we should

do this you know there let me let me

quote that more on Brendan Carr. We can

do this the easy the hard way or the

easy way. Let's do it the easy way with

the Cubans, right? Let's show them the

bigness of the United States and really

help them. And then Scott and I will

open our hotel there and retire.

Okay. Uh okay.

>> Great mojito. Great,

>> great cigars, everything else. Uh, in

any case, we want to hear from you. Send

us your questions about business tech or

whatever's on your mind. Go to

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to submit a question for the show or

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