what's your thoughts on milk it's

problematic current Dairy is not

something we should consume so you might

not know this

but that's crazy Dr Mark Hyman one of

the world leading doctors in functional

medicine and an expert in helping people

understand how they can live their

longest healthiest life what are your

thoughts on his imp so we have a massive

obesity problem and we don't have any

good Solutions so something comes along

that makes you lose weight that's a huge

attractive thing but the side effect

Prof file in this is scary people are

not aware that and by the way they're

thinking of giving it to 5-year-old kids

which is just terrifying but we live in

a toxic landscape of enticing addictive

highly processed food which is why 93%

of us have some metabolic dysfunction we

know that causes mental health issues

depression anxiety add gun violence it

kills 11 million people a year but these

are not inevitable problems so for

example I had a kid with ADD who was so

bad that you couldn't read his

handwriting at 12 years old but after 2

months he went from having severe ADD

symptoms to excelling and score and

there's so many things that you can do

but people have to understand that you

cannot use willpower to control your

food Behavior it's a problem of

education for example if you eat sugar

in the Morning cereal pancakes Bagels

it's the worst possible thing we can do

string training three times a week 20

minutes is really key for longevity and

this is really important we call it the

five FS for getting healthy but most of

us do the opposite so

it's congratulations Dario gang we we've

made some progress 63% of you that

listen to this podcast regularly don't

subscribe which is down from

69% our goal is 50% so if you've ever

liked any of the videos we've posted if

you like this channel can you do me a

quick favor and hit the Subscribe button

it helps this channel more than you know

and the bigger the channel gets as

you've seen the bigger the guests get

thank you and enjoy this

[Music]

episode

Mark if someone's just on this

podcast can you tell me why they should

stay and

listen great question great question the

answer is quite simple you're going to

be able to have a window into the future

of your

health and the future of medicine itself

and the way to think about things the

way you think about your health the way

you think about symptoms you have or

diseases you have or your family members

have the way you think about optimiz her

health you're going to have a window

into what the next generation of

thinking is about this a paradigm shift

that's akin to Columbus saying the Earth

is not flat or Galileo saying the the

the the the Earth is not uh is not the

center of the universe you know these

are massive scientific Paradigm or

evolutionary theory by Darwin think

about physics at the turn of the last

century and and how much that changed

with Einstein's discoveries of

Relativity we are now at that stage in

biology where we're understanding for

the first time in history of science and

medicine the natural laws of biology and

how the Body Works what is functional

medicine how do you like I've heard the

word before but I've never really

understood the true definition yeah I

mean I don't particularly like the word

to be honest with you Stephen I think I

think it has kind of you know confusing

implications for people but essentially

the way I would describe it as a new way

of thinking about solving the puzzle of

chronic disease looking at root causes

seeing the body as a system as a network

it's the medicine of why not what not

what disease do you have but why do you

have it it's a science of creating

Health how do we create Health what are

the things that are impediments to

health how do we get rid of those and

what are the ingredients for health and

how do we provide those and it's not

that big a list like we're biological

organisms right and so functional

medicine is a systematic way of thinking

it's an operating system or

methodology uh heuristic let's say to to

unpack all of your body ology and all

the inputs we call the exposome and make

sense of what your personal story is and

and personalized and approach to

diagnosis and treatment so you know we

always say in functional medicine you

can have one cause that creates many

diseases or one disease it can have many

causes so for example gluten can cause

everything from osteoporosis to autism

to schizophrenia to R arthritis to

anemia

to hair loss alpia I mean it can cause a

million things and it's one inciting

event or you can have you know one

disease like depression that can be

caused by many things depression is a

symptom right it's not a proac

deficiency right it's caused by many

factors it could be that you had a major

trauma or or a loss it could be that

you're vitamin D deficient it could be

that you're eating gluten it creates

inflammation in your brain it could be

that you're not taking acid blocker for

years for reflux because you're have the

wrong diet and that causes be2

deficiency that causes depression or it

could be because you're eating a lot lot

of sushi and that has mercury that

causes depression or maybe it's because

you hate sushi and fish and you don't

eat any fish and you have omega-3

deficiency or you maybe have in some

resistance and diabetes that can cause

depression and inflammation in the brain

so depression is just a name we give to

people who share a collection of

symptoms most of the diseases we have

that we describe as obesity or diabetes

or heart disease or cancer they're not

really helpful to understand the true

root cause they're just describing the

symptoms it's descriptive right and so

functional medicine is a really

different model model uh it's also could

be called Network medicine with the

there's a textbook out of Harvard by

larasi that talks about the network

biology we have you know how we need to

think about multia factorial causes of

disease there's many factors there not

just one and then multimodal

interventions not just one we're looking

at that one cure for Alzheimer's we're

never going to find it you know but a

study that looked at multiple

interventions of diet and lifestyle and

exercise and aggressive treatment of

risk factors showed a regression of

Alzheimer's not one drug but many many

different modalities that optimize

health so it's really to me the most

exciting time in medicine it's this this

Paradigm sh is happening it's happening

fast and it's being accelerated through

this sort of Advent of our our ability

to do deep phenomic di Diagnostics so

phenomics is essentially the expression

of your biology any moment your genome

is fixed right but your phenome is

essentially the the things that your

body expresses whether it's health or

disease was there any personal

experiences that made you more drawn

towards focusing your life on health and

helping people absolutely I mean I I've

always been interested so I don't know

why I think it was I visited my sister

at ammer college and went to the veggie

room and had whole grain bread and

peanut butter and honey I'm like this is

good I'm vegetarian so I just sort of

got into it and then I studied Buddhism

and got into that so I I think I all

that was sort of seated in me and then I

started n studies in yoga which is sort

of a science of really healing the mind

and Buddhism is healing the mind so

always sort of got into that uh but

there was something that happen after I

went to work at this place called Kya

Ranch it's a health

resort and I got very ill I had lived in

China and basically was breathing in

Mercury Laden air uh in Beijing in the

winter and I had an air filter I would

clean it every day and that air filter

was full of mercury CU it's in the S

it's in the coal that they burn they

burn raw coal in the city and I haed it

every day and when I got back from China

um there was something that happened I

got some gut infection and my system

just collapsed one day I was riding my

bike 100 miles a day the next day I

couldn't walk up the stairs one day I

had 30 patients and I could remember

everybody's name and story and

everything without notes and dictate

everything at the end of the day with no

problem to not being able to remember

where I was at the end of a sentence

from where I started and I couldn't read

a book to my kids out loud and actually

understand it I could either read it and

try to understand it or I could read it

out loud and not know what I was saying

my brain just stopped working my immune

system not working my gut stopped

working my whole body just collapsed I

developed chronic fatigue syndrome and I

felt like I was walking through mud and

it took me years to figure it out uh

really years and I got introduced to

functional medicine at that time I heard

about I said this either is lunacy or

it's genius and if it's true I devoted

to finding out whether it's true for me

for my own healing and for my patients

because if it if it was true everything

was going to be different it's like you

know like discovering the Earth wasn't

flat well if that's true then everything

is different and so I dove into it head

first to heal myself and then I started

using my patience and that that feeling

of being sick drove me because I was I

was clear that I wasn't crazy chronic

fatigue syndrome was thought to be a you

know sort of a psychological disease and

now the data is really clear the NH just

came out with a large paper I think last

week talking about the biomarkers and

the biology and the mology and the

mitochondrial dysfunction and the

inflammation and all the things that do

go wrong and I I knew was I wasn't crazy

and I knew I wasn't mentally ill and I

knew I wasn't depressed and I knew I

didn't have ADD and you know I knew I

wasn't getting dementia at 36 years old

and so I I I I really had to understand

my biology internally on a cellular

level and reverse engineer my way back

to health and so that forced me just out

of survival to to dig deep into the

science of what was happening and then

to attack that and then start to use it

on my patients and when I would to use

it on my patients I was shocked I would

have someone coming with autoimmune

disease they had for years and I say do

this this and this based on the

principles and they would get better or

I would say I've had migraines for 20

years and I would check and they would

have a food sensitivity to eggs they

stop and go away or I would take someone

who's had diabetes and put them on the

right approach with food is medicine and

the diabetes would go away so I would

started seeing all these what I thought

were Miracles or things that wouldn't

change or treating kids with autism or

add or and we can we can share in the

show notes but I had a kid with ADD who

was so bad that you couldn't read his

handwriting at 12 years old and after

two months he went from having severe

ADD symptoms and all these other health

issues and I fixed his gut I optimized

his nutrition I I get the lead out of

his system I got all the processed food

out and he went from being completely

non barely non-functioning to excelling

in school to having perfect Penman ship

after two months and I'm like wow this

is crazy if you just look at the image

of this and can share it on the show

notes if you want it was like okay

something is going on here that that we

don't completely understand and if it's

something as simple as optimizing his

gut and optimizing his nutrition and

getting rid of the the toxin in his body

and the Brain could function again then

so many people who are suffering don't

need to suffer and that's really what

drove me was just seeing so many people

suffering without need and how easy it

was to fix them once you understood

right we're at that stage in medicine

where the answers are here the science

and technology is here it's just not

applied and so my whole life has been

driven by The Passion of trying to

relieve needless suffering for millions

of people these chronic diseases that

are now accounting for you know almost

$1 in5 dollar of our entire economy that

are bankrupting America and I think the

NHS is not far behind us in the UK you

know we're we're these are not

inevitable problems you know heart

disease diabetes many cancers dementia

autoimmune diseases these are just

exploding in the last 100 years they

weren't around before it wasn't because

we didn't live long it wasn't because of

that it was because something changed

and and and what changed was our diet

was environmental toxins was our

microbiome was our nutritional

deficiencies because of the ultra

processed food we're eating and so I've

been driven you know to both solve

problems individually for in for people

with their health as as well as take on

the bigger issues of the root causes of

our of our chronic disease which if it's

food right so and and environmental

toxins and I and I realized that I

couldn't cure diabetes in my office

right diabetes was caused on the farm

and the factories and the grocery stores

and the restaurants not in in my office

and so I really had to go Upstream to

deal with the root causes of why my

patients were sick because I could

change your diet and I could get them to

be better and could fix a lot of things

but it they would just kept more people

just keep coming in I'm like this is

ridiculous and so I realized I had to do

something about it so I wrote a book

called food fix which essentially lays

out how food is a Nexus of everything we

care about and create a nonprofit where

I work in Washington to try to change

food policies like child-friendly

labeling and medically tailored meals

and changing nutrition education and

changing our dietary guidelines and

changing the kinds of food they aable

through Snap or food stamps you know why

should we be giving you know 10% of our

hundred billion do budget for food

stamps for soda which we know kills

people you know it's so so I've been

kind of working on these issues both on

the macro and the micro what what is the

um current state of food in your point

of view because it's difficult isn't it

especially you when we come to America

as Brits um I feel like we always get

fat it's very very difficult to come to

Los Angeles or New York where we

frequent as Brits to run the show yeah

and to not get fat I'm sorry so like

what is but it's difficult like you know

I do these podcasts about health in food

all the time but then I I think okay

it's all good having this all all this

advice but when you walk outside and you

walk into a convenience store you are

doomed yeah yeah we live in a toxic

nutritional landscape it's a nutritional

Wasteland a carnival of of uh enticing

colorful addictive highly processed

food-like substances that drive our

biology in all the wrong ways and and so

it's very difficult to be healthy In

America which is why 90 3% of us have

some metabolic dysfunction this is

according to the we call the national

health and nutrition examination survey

the government does which is hundreds of

thousands of people looking at their

blood work over many many years and

we're messed up you know and it's it's

not an accident it has to do with with

the food we produce how we grow it what

we grow how it's processed how it's um

made into different food-like substances

how it's marketed sold in grocery stores

restaurants so it's very difficult

unless you really know what you're doing

to stay out of trouble in America I mean

I I do it because I'm highly educated

but it's very tough and it's easy to

make the wrong choice how do you do it

oh well I I'm very sort of religious

about what I put in my body I mean I

don't eat anything that comes in a

package or processed I just don't it's

it's a it's a hard and fast rule if if

it's basically I mean if it's something

that's like a can of sardines or a can

of tomatoes obviously if it's minimally

processed Foods that's fine you know

we've been Mally processing Foods

forever sauerkraut is processed yogurt

yogurt's processed that's not bad it's

how it's processed and and so I I

eliminate all Ultra processed foods I

won't I won't even think of it as food

if I go into a store convenience store

and I see all these different things to

buy it it just it looks to me like a

rock like the way Pro that process in my

brain well that's not really food why

would I eat that I'm not going to pick

up a rock and eat it uh so I I tried to

uh cook my own food

and uh I bring food with me so for

example today I had another podcast I

did earlier and I knew I wasn't going to

have time for lunch so I had uh earlier

bought some snacks and I actually have a

a care package basically a emergency

Snack Pack so I don't have a food

emergency in my backpack all the time so

it's like a day's rations and that was

my lunch so basically even though I

didn't have time to kind of go out to

eat today I I pre-planned so it takes a

little planning you know like you came

to the United States from the UK you

didn't just like leave your house and go

to the airport you thought about what

you're packing you brought the right

clothes you brought your crew you want

to bring your cameras or whatever you

have to bring you have you have to plan

but somehow we don't think we have to do

that for our health we we have to plan

it and so I'm very careful about

planning and occasion I get stuck and

you know usually I can find some nuts or

something somewhere even if they're in

oil that I don't like so it it's tough I

got told the other day which helped me

understand myself I got told that when

we're hungry especially when it's sort

of like late at night The Logical center

of our brain like the pre-renal cortex

is less active and the amydala the sort

of emotional part of our brain that

wants the dopamine is much more active

and it helped me to understand why maybe

late at night if I haven't planned my

food um I'm much more susceptible to

make a bad food choice that I then

regret I'm much more acceptable to lean

in for sugar or something that's like

yeah super high in carbs or whatever

yeah that really helped me and this is

the why the planning thing makes a lot

of sense cuz I can use my prefrontal

cortex my logic center of my brain to

make the food choice in the morning yeah

so that I don't find myself making a

mistake it's so important Stephen

because people have to understand that

willpower is not the answer you cannot

use willpower to control your food

Behavior it's part of your

ancestral evolutionary limbic reptile

dinosaur brain and so when your blood

sugar drops you're going to eat whatever

in front of you if there's a vending

machine if there's a donut if it's

cookies it doesn't matter even if you

know better and I I've experienced this

you're just going to eat whatever

because it's a life-threatening

emergency your body doesn't know that

there's grocery stores and restaurants

it means you're going to go out and try

to hunt and gather and do something it's

like an emergency so when you have that

food emergency and you don't have the

right food on you you're in trouble I

have that all the time I have this like

constant fight fight with myself where

this one voice is like do the

right thing and then this other part of

my brain is like just today break the

rule and and but obviously that voice is

louder sometimes than others and

typically late at night it's louder

sleep deprivation stress stress sleep

deprivation all that increases your

appetite it increases cortisol it

increases uh grin which is a grin which

is a hunger hormone I we know you can

take uh you know young healthy K college

kids and sleep deprive them and they're

going to crave carbs they're going to

crave sugar and they're going to gain

weight it's not rocket science what

about for someone that doesn't have

any money at all so they can't you know

they don't have the ability to a lot of

the Privileges that me and you have what

are some of the very Basics that they

should be thinking about in order to

remain healthy in a world where every

convenience store is trying to sell you

something cheap and sugary yeah a really

good good question you know I think I

think the economics of being healthy is

a problem and and and we know that

there's a huge disparity in health um

but it's not only economics it's

education uh you know I met with woman

who is the doctor at the a clinic in bed

Stenson which is in Brooklyn it's a very

underserved

area and uh you know very um low social

economic status group very unhealthy and

she said you know Mark you know the the

number one predictor of

health is it money no is education so

even people who are were wealthy but

haven't been educated still have issues

so for me it was really about education

and so people can be educated to do the

right thing and it doesn't have to be

expensive and I was part of this film 10

years ago called fedup that looked at

childood obesity and our food system and

the Advent of sugar and marketing and

processed foods and we we visit a lot of

families and I work with a family in

North Car South Carolina Easley it's one

of the poorest areas in

America it has the worst uh called the

uh uh food deserts one of the worst Food

deserts in America basically where

there's not a lot of healthy options to

choose from oh yeah and there's

something called the retail food

environment index how many healthy

grocery stores are there to fast food

and convenience stores and there was

like 10 to one it was was

terrible and his family you know was

lived on $1,000 a month for food for a

family of five they lived in a trailer

they uh were in disability in food

stamps the mother was 100 plus pounds

overweight the father was very

overweight had type two diabetes and was

on already at 42 year olds old was on

dialysis for kidney

failure which is amazing cuz you usually

don't see that till later the son was 16

years old and 50% body fat guy should be

10 to 20 and was about di to be diabetic

was

pre-diabetic and rather than kind of

they were part of the movie I said why

do you want to do this they were like

well in order for my dad to get the

kidney transplant wait we're trying we

don't know what to do we're doing all

this lowfat stuff and we're doing all

this diet stuff we have in the house not

working so I went to their house their

trailer and I rather than giving a

lecture about what to do I said let's

cook a meal together but let first Let's

do an inspection of your kitchen and

let's see what's in here and so we

pulled out everything from the freezer

and the fridge and the cupboards and

everything was packaged boxed processed

everything was very high in high

fructose corn syrup from the peanut

butter to the salad dressing everything

had trans fat in it which is deadly and

a lot of it said diet there so my basic

rule is if it has a health claim on the

label don't eat it you know it's

gluten-free potato chips doesn't make it

healthy right Coca-Cola is gluten-free

doesn't make it healthy so um I showed

them what they were doing and I said

let's just make a simple meal here's a

guide called good food on a tight budget

how to eat well for you for the planet

and your wallet and it's made by the

environmental working group you can get

up on ewg.org it's free and and and it

was like how do you choose the cheaper

cuts of meat or the the beans or the

grains or the veggies you know like

onions and carrots and celery are not

expensive you know like a lot of veggies

are not expensive so we made turkey

chili we made a salad from fresh

ingredients olive oil and vinegar

dressing not a dressing that was full of

chemicals and high fructose corn syrup

and refined oils we I showed them how to

roast his sweet potatoes I showed them

how to stir fry vegetables we had some

asparagus they never eaten anything

fresh they never cooked in the kitchen

the kids came out who were playing video

games they came running in the kitchen

like what's that smell like and it was

like the roasting the sweet potatoes we

had this beautiful dinner together they

love the food and I was like you know

what I don't know if it's going to work

but you don't they didn't even have

cutting boards they didn't have knives

they like they literally had like we

tried to cut uh the you know the um the

onions and the sweet potatoes with a

butter knife cuz that's all they had it

was like a butter knife it was really

hard W uh so I bought them on the way

home I bought them cutting boards on

Amazon and on knes and I sent it to

their house next week the mom text me

she says Mark we lost 18 pounds this

week as a family A year later the father

lost 45 got a new kidney the mother lost

100 pound the son lost 132 lbs and and

went to medical school first guy in his

family to go to college and he asked me

for a letter recommendation for medical

school and they lived in one of the

worst Food deserts they didn't have much

you know economically and they were able

to figure it out because eating real

food doesn't have to be expensive you

don't have to have a $70 wagu ribeye

steak right you can you can eat real

food and it's just as simple as not

eating the ultr processed food it's so

bad for us and it kills 11 million

people a year we know the state is so

strong it causes mental health issues

aggression violence depression and

anxiety uh gun violence I mean the

studies are there I just I did a podcast

on the Doctor's Pharmacy my podcast

about this talking about how our food is

affecting our mental health not just

obesity and diabetes but our cognitive

function uh add and memory issues I mean

it's all linked to what we're eating so

we we have a you know like I said the

best of times the worst of times we know

what to do but we have the ability to do

it it it's just it's just a problem of

Education a problem of a political will

to change the policies that are driving

us to do the wrong thing and right now

there's a bill being proposed in

Congress that would limit as a pilot

Ultra processed food for kids with food

stamps which I think would be

amazing the food industry is fighting

back tooth and nail right so so we're

fighting big forces food industry is the

biggest industry on the

planet when I was growing up um and I

was trying to be healthy one of the

things I used to do was chug milk yeah

because

I got told that it would make me tall

like my brothers so I used to drink milk

like crazy yeah straight from the carton

just as many gulps as I could take from

the fridge did it work did you did you

grow I have no idea I'm still shorter

than they are so I guess not um but

that's one of the big myths that I think

a lot of families still believe that

milk is great for our bones and to help

us grow what's your thoughts on milk

yeah so uh you controversial topic as

well yes I mean the dairy industry is

Big um our current Secretary of

agriculture worked for the dairy

industry it's problematic because

because the science isn't there there

was a there was a paper called milk in

health that was published in the New

England Journal of Medicine top medical

journal in the world arguably maybe the

lanet if you're from the

UK but it it basically was written by

two Harvard scientists that dissected

all the scientific evidence around milk

and whether the claims were right or not

and just maybe for the audience in

Europe you might not know this but in

the states you'll remember this there

were all these got milk ads so there

were famous people celebrities uh you

know Sports athletes politicians all

wearing a white milk mustache and

they're like got milk as a promotion and

and and In Those ads it would say it's

going to build better bones it's going

to do this it's going to do that and the

FTC the Federal Trade

Commission uh actually or I think it was

Federal say you can't do that because

it's it's not true like you have to take

those ads out so the ads went away and

it was the government promoting Those

ads with the dairy Council so there's

something called Check Out programs that

the government has where it's supposed

to support agriculture well the

government was paying in part for these

ads with taxpayer dollars and the

science wasn't there and the the dietary

guidelines for Americans says that the

average American should have three

glasses of milk a day and kids should

have two glasses of milk a day to be

healthy you cannot get money and funding

for school lunches in America without

having milk on the menu now there is no

evidence to support this in fact there's

opposite evidence that skin milk causes

weight gain because it doesn't satisfy

your appetite that milk can cause cancer

that prate cancer prostate cancer that U

it doesn't create strong bones in fact

there's higher risk of fracture with

high milk drinkers that it creates a lot

of digestive issues for people it can

create autoimmune diseases like type 1

diabetes it has common allergies or food

sensitivities that people get

and I remember I was I was in the um

emergency room once and when I was

working in the ER and this mother comes

in with this kid with like you know had

like this 10th ear infection fews I was

like what happened like when did this

start oh it started when he was like 12

months old I said what changed well I

stopped breastfeeding and I started

giving him milk and all of a sudden he

started getting these ear infections I'm

like oh this is before I even knew about

all this it was just kind of an

interesting footnote but we really have

have to look at the data and be

science-driven and the problem is we're

we're we have corporate capture in

America we're where the food industry

has captured our food agencies our

political um system from the FDA to the

USDA they spend for example half a

billion dollars just on the farm bill uh

which has you know for example food

stamps and other food programs child

infant nutrition so it's it's really

unfortunate but milk is not Nature's

perfect food it's only Nature's perfect

food if you're a

calf is there health benefits to milk

yes so so that's the other side of it

now what milk should we be drinking

right if we're drinking modern milk

modern milk is from wholen cows that are

almost homogen ins same not homogenized

milk but homogeneous breed they have

very few bows inseminating them they

have like you know massive insemination

program from very

few bulls that have a limited genetic

stock and uh they're what we call A1

cows so most heirloom cows most sort of

historical Dairy had something called A2

casine Which is less inflamm fatory less

likely to cause gut issues less

problematic for the body so sheep and

goat milk have A2 certain cows like

Jersey or gery cows have A2 in them and

you can get A2 milk you can A2 ice cream

now um and and so this A1 casine is

potentially very problematic so I think

the current Dairy is not great and then

we pasteurize it and homogenize it and

we you know and we add growth hormone to

to the cows that goes in there we have

EST Esten that we add into the cows it's

in the milk we have 60 different

hormones in the milk some of them are

naturally occurring but we milk uh

pregnant cows and that milk has a lot

more hormonal effects so I think current

current Dairy is not something we should

consume now if you have a chance to get

sheep milk or goat milk or A2 milks from

a cow that may be okay yogurts may be

okay it depends on your genetics too 75%

the world's lactose intolerant many

people have dairy sensitivities but uh I

think you know if it's if it's the right

Source it's okay for example I use goat

way as my morning protein shake so goat

way is from goats obviously uh there's

very little casine in it but it's A2

casc if there's any and I don't react to

it but if I have regular way I do have a

reaction I get congested I'll get

pimples or I get regular stuff so I

don't think Dair is something we should

be consuming in large amounts unless

it's certain kinds of dairy what do you

think of um this conversation at the

moment around a zmac it seems like it's

just exploded in yeah culture I mean the

share price of the company that maker

zenek has gone through the roof yeah in

a way that I've just never seen in

biotech before yeah um it appears that

there's no apparent side effects if you

ask

people they struggle to T any side

effects but I actually think I saw you

make a video about it if I'm yeah yeah

yeah to say about it what's what are

your thoughts on his imp um you crossed

your arms are you going to get yourself

in

trouble just like well I'm trying not to

bang the

table

but first of all we have a massive

obesity problem and we don't have any

good Solutions and so something comes

along that's an injection you can take

once a week that makes you not hungry

and bypasses your normal biological

mechanisms and you lose

weight that's a

huge attractive thing and that's why NOA

Nordisk is the biggest company now in

Denmark it's the biggest uh part of the

GDP of Denmark I don't know if they

leave allow it in Denmark they're the

people that make oek yeah people that

make OIC and uh recently the CEO of Nova

Nordisk who makes OIC publicly said he

was getting calls from processed food

manufacturers very concerned because

their market share was dropping and they

were very concerned that it was going to

affect their business think about that

so I think oing is effective it works

with a natural part of your biology uh

called glp1 which is something your body

makes uh and we can can make more of it

by doing lots of different things from

certain probiotics and bacteria arot to

certain foods uh to certain ways of

eating but the effect of the drug is

very strong just for context for anyone

that doesn't know what a zenek is let's

give them some context well it's it's a

drug that's was first Ed for

diabetes and then it it works by acting

on a pathway called gp1 glucagon like

pep peptide one which is just a pathway

and it and it and it regulates insulin

function it regulates weight

uh and appetite and so it really works

to help with blood

sugar but the side effect was weight

loss so it was like we studied Viagra

for blood pressure but the side effect

was it helped men with tions so it was

like well it's like kind of like that

right it was like wasn't designed for

this but it actually had the side effect

and you know since obesity affects so

many people there's now two billion

people on the planet who are overweight

so you take this injection yeah and you

basically your appetite drops out so you

don't you don't feel hungry you don't

feel as hungry and you can feel nauseous

you can throw up you can not want to eat

and and people stop it because of the

side effects so those are short-term

side effects um what it so the plus side

is that it works uh it it's uh it's

effective it has some metabolic benefits

when you lose weight which can help your

health benefits I don't think it's the

drug that's having the health benefits

it's the weight loss but there's a lot

of downsides one uh it costs not a lot

of money so if you were to put everybody

who's overweight in the country on it it

would be $5.1 trillion so it's an

enormous enormously cost how much does

it cost like $13 to $700 a month 13 to

$1,700 a month a month which is like you

know probably you know 1,500 pound or

something it's a lot it's a lot of money

every month forever right when you stop

it the weight gain comes back unless you

really rigorously change your lifestyle

so it's not a lifestyle change program

it's not a this doesn't help you change

your behavior or habits it's it's a

pharmacological appetite straight jacket

and and that can be effective if you if

some people really need it they need it

if some people are mass overweight and

they don't want to get a gastric bypass

I think it may be okay but here's the

rup one you have to take it forever two

it's expensive three most uh uh of

people are not aware that not only do

you lose fat but you lose muscle so

about 50% of the weight you lose is

muscle and muscle is where your

metabolism is it burns seven times the

calories as fat and you need it for

longevity and health and so when you

lose muscle your whole Health declines

it's Center of your health and it's very

tough to get that back so you have to

really increase protein and you have to

hit the gym hard with weights if you're

going to be on a drug like OIC longer

term and that that can be managed but

it's it's most people don't right that

can be managed and you need to be

tracked with dexas scans and body

composition testing and really know what

you're doing because it can really mess

you up and then you you lose the weight

but then your metabolism is slower at

the end of that process than it was

before you started because you've lost

your metabolic engine which is your

muscle the other thing that happens and

we're now seeing this because it's it's

not been around that long right there

was it was an article in the New England

Journal years ago that said be sure to

use new drugs as soon as they come out

before the side effects develop right so

now we're seeing two three years out

serious side effects so you know we in

medicine when we see an effect of 20 or

30% on a study we go that's that's a

great thing let's you know statens lower

heart disease by 20 to 30% great number

one drug in the

world the side effect profile in this is

scary because bow obstruction which is

not a trivial thing essentially where

your bowels stop moving and you need

surgery to release them is is increased

by

450% pancre pancreatitis which is not a

fun condition which is where your

pancreas becomes inflamed that affects

your digestion it affects your insulin

affects everything and you can die from

it is increased by

900% so these are not trivial things

there's other side effects kidney and so

forth so I think the longer this is out

there we're going to see more and more

consequences of this drug and I think it

misses the real issue which is how do we

fix the problem causing this it's not an

OIC deficiency right like this is weight

weight gain obesity is not a zic

deficiency is because of our toxic

environment lifestyle food system lack

of exercise environmental toxins it's

complicated and and and it's not it's

not an easy fix and it requires policy

change it requires us to rethink our

agricultural system our food processing

and Manufacturing system it requires

massive education for people what to eat

it requires us really to make widescale

change in our society which is going to

cause significant loss for a lot of

companies

I mean like I said the food industry is

the biggest industry in the world it's s

16 to 17 trillion dollar a year industry

that's that's bigger than the GDP of

most countries or I think of like I mean

the entire United States is is I think

16 trillion so it's it's a it's a big

industry with a lot to lose and and so

there's a lot of push back about

changing the things that have to change

for us to become healthy so taking this

drug seems great and and I think it's

it's it's got benefits but it's it's not

just a risk-free solution it's funny

because it it feels like it's a window

into the future of how we're going to

treat things like obesity because the

the price hope not I well play this

forward the price is going to come down

because more companies are going to

release very similar iterations that

cause the same effect on gp1 the price

will come down so quickly there'll be

this kind of price race I'm sure I I

imagine a zek got ahead of the pack

because they ran the clinical trials so

they invested all that money which they

got approved first that window's going

to close and then the price comes down

and then I don't know if do they

prescribe it here and conductors

prescribe oh sure anybody can prescribe

it yeah oh really okay oh yeah so it can

be subsidized by your insurance or

something no no it can't be I mean the

most insurance don't pay for it they

might pay for it if you're diabetic but

for non-approved indications they they

typically don't pay for it now there

rovi which is the approved version and

and some insurance will pay some

insurance won't but it it's not

something they're excited to pay about

interesting why do you know this one

those side effects that you named for

link to zek what is it about the drug

that's causing that because I was

wondering as you're saying it I like is

that because people start eating less or

is it the chemical itself no no it's the

it's the effect of the drug it it

thickens the bowel wall it it it has

effect on the gut so it is working on

the gut in in a lot of the the hormones

and the metabolic functions of the gut

are affected by OIC in ways that change

its functions

and and slow the emptying and do a lot

of things So eventually it seems to

cause problems for a lot of people

interesting because you know the

narrative out there is quite is very

positive at the moment these drugs come

along and it's it's like there's no side

effects and they're super millions of

dollars of advertising and billions of

dollars of Revenue at stake so yeah you

nobody's talking about the bad side

interesting and by the way they're

thinking of giving it to 5-year-old kids

which is just terrifying to me uh for

life

I do think with these things there's no

such thing as a free lunch is there in

life so I think we'll eventually figure

out what the trade-off is yeah and then

people can decide for themselves if the

trade-off is worth it based on their own

circumstan yeah I mean listen people go

like I want to lose 5 pounds and I don't

think that's a good idea if you're

severely obese person you have severe

health conditions you're really

struggling to get going you know it can

it be a helpful Aid absolutely you know

should it be given to everybody who

wants to look good for a party or a

wedding absolutely not

what's your um position on fruit I love

fruit how much fruit I I think it

depends right so if you're a diabetic uh

and you're metabolically

completely out of whack um and you don't

have any metabolic

resilience you know eating a plum might

be a problem for you and now we have

continuous glucose monitors you can

track your blood sugar and see and i'

I've had patients like this ge I I I eat

a plum and my sugar goes to the roof so

but if I eat an apple it doesn't so I

think different fruits have different

effects on you uh but for most part

fruit is full of phytochemicals fiber

phytonutrients it does have a little bit

of sugar in it uh I would say no fruit

juice I think fruit juice is definitely

linked to obesity and kids and other

things but if you want to have an apple

or a peach or a plum it's fine I think

you shouldn't have it first thing in the

morning I think protein and fat in the

morning is important because it it

activates your metabolism and your

protein synthesis if you eat sugar in

the morning which is essentially what we

eat in the world today cereal pancakes

waffles muffins bagels you know

sweetened yogurts sweetened coffees I

mean it's the worst possible thing we

can do for our biology it it jacks up

our blood sugar and insulin and ends up

causing us to gain weight and be hungry

and you know be craving more stuff so

having having um fruit for example you

have frozen berries in your so I had

Frozen cherries for example in my Whey

Protein that's okay because there's

protein in there it mitigates the effect

so what about eating times when to eat

yeah have you got any thoughts around

when we should and shouldn't be to yeah

for sure I think you know you know we

had something called breakfast before

which was breaking the

fast and now people eat all night they

eat till they go to bed and they soon

they wake up they eat or have something

sugary stuff in the morning they get

sugary coffee and they don't get

themselves a window of fasting which is

critical for our biology and I wrote

about this in my book Young Forever

where we talked about how do we have our

own repair re renewal system kick in cuz

the body think about it uh Stephen your

body when you cut yourself heals the

skin closes it heals how does it know

how to do that right it's it's so smart

it's got a your bones break it heals

right I broke my a few years ago it just

healed right what's going on I'm not

going would you please heal in there it

knows what to do it recruits stem cells

it recruits repair factors and growth

factors and it it knows what to do so

the body has this innate healing repair

renewal and regeneration system and we

need to learn how to activate it and

most of us do the opposite we do

everything in our power to deactivate it

and that causes disease so food is the

most important thing we do to interact

with these regenerative renewal repair

systems it's one one of the things we

call the Hallmarks of aging and there's

one called deregulated nutrient sensing

and it really relates to how our bodies

relate to food how our nutrient sensing

systems are disregulated by our highly

processed diet by high sugar and starch

and not enough of the right Foods so so

in the in the long answer to your

question you know it's important to give

yourself a break of 12 hours so if you

eat at 6 at night you could eat 6 in the

morning minimum but best probably 14 so

if you eat dinner at 600 eat breakfast

at 8 that's okay that's a 14-hour fast

and in that time your body is doing its

clean up recycling repair is there an

evolutionary story here for sure

absolutely you know when when uh you

know we didn't have grocery stores we

didn't have you know Whole Foods we

didn't have restaurants we didn't have

takeout we didn't have convenience

stores so we had to go out and find food

you I just came back from Tanzania and

visited the hunter gatherers there the

kazza which is one of the last few

tribes that hunt and gather and we went

hunting and Gathering I was like man

it's a lot of work to go you know dig up

some roots and kill a bird in the tree

and like it was it was a project we ran

around for hours uh and and so we don't

know where we're getting our next meal

and so the body has had to deal with

periods of feast and famine before so

what it's got built into it is a system

of conservation and and and repair when

we don't eat and so the system gets

activated that improves our our blood

sugar control that recruits new

mitochondria and builds new mitochondria

that reduces inflammation that activates

um cellular cleanup and repair processes

so you have all these old cells and

damaged proteins your body has a little

like digestor almost like a little

vacuum cleaner that goes and sucks this

all up and then digest it and then uses

the parts it's almost like a a recycling

system in the body we need to activate

that and so that fasting period is a

time to do that and we've seen even for

example we know for example

concentration camp survivors who live

really long like they live 90 100 plus

years old many of them and it's because

they had this period of deep starvation

that had an effect on their biology and

we know this we know this from many

animal studies that starvation and

fasting will extend your life by a third

if you eat a third less calories you'll

live a third longer now it's not fun

right but you don't have to do that so

timing of eating is important so give

yourself 3 hours before bed for no food

and give yourself at least 12 to 14

hours between dinner and breakfast how

do we know in the animal studies it

wasn't just the calorie restriction that

caused the um sort of longevity effect

it was oh it was the it was so what if I

just restrict my calories instead of

fasting well you can do that uh I met a

guy who was from the calorie restriction

Society there a calorie restriction

Society yeah which is based on this this

research in animals where think about if

you eat a third less you live a third

longer so for a human that would be 120

years old now I said what do you have

for breakfast he said well I had five

pounds of celery and I'm like okay you

go do that I'm gonna figure out another

way so you have to eat enormous amounts

of like low calorie food just to feel

full right that's why he had all that

food so he he was starving and and there

are a lot of downsides starving you lose

muscle which is necessary there's

certain things that go wrong and so it's

not really the optimal strategy you want

to do things that mimic starvation so

how do you mimic this period of

starvation that that causes something

called autophagy which basically means

to eat yourself to basically clean up

your cell it's like self-cleaning or

self-repair right and and and so there's

a lot of ways to hack that you can do it

by this longer term overnight fast you

can do it by certain supplements and and

certain medications like rapamycin is

being studied for longevity which is a a

drug that's used for for cancer and for

other immune suppressing treatments but

it works on this pathway called mtor

which essentially is the activation of

cellular buildup right it causes muscle

synthesis so if you want to build muscle

you want to activate mtor with protein

which is good but you don't want to

activated all the time so this drug

inhibits mtor which is what happens when

you starve yourself so what mimics

starvation

and then you get this kind of benefit or

drugs like metformin are being studied

which is another drug that's looking at

how do we activate this longevity switch

called amk another pathway that's

regulating your nutrient sensing so when

you have enough you don't have enough

nutrients this activates but if we're

running around eating well you can

actually take this drug and it may have

an effect there's a large trial going on

now I'm still agnostic about it I I'm

I'm neither Pro or against it I think

the data is not in it for me to start

taking it or for my patients to start

taking it but it works on some of the

these sort of uh starvation mimicking

hacks let's call them so starvation is

good for us yeah I mean yes I would say

you have to be careful because you know

people go really to the extreme they go

like I'm going to not activate mtor

because activating mour causes me to age

faster and it prevents autophagy and it

builds cancer and it's bad so I'm going

to become a vegan and I'm to eat less

calories and eventually what happens is

you lose muscle so it's it's like

Goldilocks you know you need both mtor

activation and mtor ambition you need to

take a breath in you need to take a

breath out you need to be awake you need

to go to sleep your heart needs to beat

it needs to relax it's just how the body

works it's a difficult conversation as

well because of it can provoke

disordered eating yeah um various Eating

Disorders which

are obviously extremely bad in terms of

health outcom yeah blue zones you

visited some blue zones haven't you I

have what are blue zones and uh what did

they teach you about the nature of being

healthy well well my friend Dan buner

basically came up with this concept of

the blue zones after visiting these

areas in the world where people had

extremely long lives and somebody on the

map circled them in blue ink which is

why they're called Blue

zones and and uh I visited I iara and

also Sardinia how many of them are there

uh there's five there's okanawa Japan uh

Loma Linda California and uh theoa

peninsula in uh Costa Rica but there are

many more I mean I was in turkey and I

saw Villages where people were very very

old and and so those are the ones that

have been studied how old are we talking

well I mean one couple there was like

collectively 210 years

old so they look to be 100 105 109 110 I

mean Emma Morano was 117 when she died

uh you know

she and and so so the Cur the question

is you know what is different about

these areas and what's different is that

you know they're very

isolated and remote so they haven't been

burdened with all the modernization of

our food system they still grow their

own food I mean I visited this couple he

was I think 90 panotes he was like 97

his wife was a young

87 and and they had land and the farm

they lived on uh he he was more chill

but she was out there showing us around

all the fruit trees the olive trees the

garden she planted I mean this massive

mini farm that she managed herself on

the side of a hill when she was running

up faster than I could get to her at 87

years old cooking everything from

scratch all it wasn't like organic but

it was because that's just what they did

they used all heirloom animals like

sheep and goats so they had heirloom

sheep and goat with what's arloom sheep

it's not like some industrialized

hybridized cow that's producing this

nasty milk which we shouldn't be

drinking it's they're having goat milk

and goat cheese but their goats are

eating wild plants that have

phytochemical some of those you know

cheeses and goat milks have actually

higher phytochemicals even than green

tea which has a lot that comes from for

example cakin that you can get from the

goat milk which is from the goats that

are eating the plants that have these

compounds that benefit their health

they're also active like um patrao was

like U 95 years old and he was in

Sardinia and he had to hike five miles a

day off this extremely Rocky mountainous

terrain to hurt his sheep at 95 years

old I mean what most 95 years old aren't

hiking the mountains right he was

booming voice stood up straight ice

clear not hunched over uh funny as heck

sang me a song you know uh and and then

you know so they move naturally they

have amazing food phytochemical rich

food uh food that's you know it's rich

in all these plant compounds that are

found to connect to longevity for

example uh in in Korea I was sitting

with this guy who was making milking the

goats and and we're making goat cheese

together and he like he gives me this

tea I'm like what is this he oh this is

Wild Sage Tea and I looked at he said

what is I said what is the plant I

looked it up and then I looked up the

plant and I analyzed you know what it

was and turned out it's it's a extremely

phytochemical rich plant that has a lot

of these same longevity compounds in it

called cakin that know we don't drink a

lot of green tea has it you can get from

from Japan for example and then um you

know uh we we we we just basically see

that not only do they have good food

they have the the activity um they they

have very low levels of stress there was

one guy Sylvio I'm I was having dinner

with him he had this mountainous uh kind

of that his whole family had had for

years and they had about 200 sheep and

goats and they had a little kind of

restaurant they started for people to

come and so they basically all the

family cooked and you had everything

from the from the

farm and I said silia after do I said

silia do you any stress like in your

life he looked at me like stress like

like he didn't almost didn't understand

the word like you know when things are

difficult and you know hard things are

hard and and get you feel stressed and

he's like oh oh yeah well sometimes at

night a goat will get out and I'll have

to go get

it like and sometimes you know when the

goats are you know giving birth I have

to go get up early so so they very low

levels of stress and then they also have

something which is really important

which is community so they they have a

sense of belonging and connection you

know I met Julia who was 100 years old

well sorry 103 months she told me I'm 10

I guess it's like when you're five I'm a

5 and 3/4 like I'm 103 months you count

in the months and and she was still

working she was still making stuff for

weddings and doilies and all things and

she didn't have any kids but her niece

and her nephew invited her to come stay

with them and so she was living with

them or another guy Carmine had lost his

wife but he was living with family

members and was running this big Garden

at ' 86 and animals and sheeps and

rabbits so they all part of community

they have Gatherings they celebrate

together there's a sense of belonging

there's no nursing homes there's no

loneliness loneliness is is the new

smoking really I mean we have an

epidemic of isolation and loneliness in

America and increasing around the globe

and and it's it's it's lethal it's like

smoking two packs of cigarettes a day

how do we know how do we know that it's

dangerous yeah there's so much science

around this the evidence of of this is

is is immense in fact the Surgeon

General of America just released a

statement about this and an initiative

to redress loneliness because it's such

a driver of not just unhappiness but

actual disease and death why why are we

so lonely what is it that's happening do

you think it's what is it the internet

or is it oh yeah I mean think about it

we used to you know rely on each other

in communities to to live like like they

do for example well I said you know how

did it work Sylvia when you have all

these sheep how do you manage it well

you know I have like all my friends they

come over when it's time for to share

the Sheep they come over and they help

and it's just life is just naturally

connected and you go over to someone's

house you walk down the street you you

know you sit in the cafe just you have a

neighborhood you have a family we've

lost that we're all mobile we're all

moving around we are all disconnected

from our families were you know online

most of the time you know we have face

we have Facebook instead of actually

face real face Toof face time I mean

it's great to sit here with you in

person right been the zoom call and it's

it's something we've lost and we've

we've lost the value of relationships

and our culture of achievement and

success and it's just kind of

disconnected us from what really matters

which is is the human Community is there

any way back for that do do you think

because I was thinking about this the

other day listen I've talked about this

once or twice now but I tried the Vision

Pro the other day oh you did yeah yeah

yeah and

um incredible in terms of the technology

yeah but terrifying in terms of the

potential implications over the long

term yeah you're just going to wear that

all the time and forget about every

exactly and it was it was incredible

like the fact that I can I can just sit

there and just the things I do with my

hands that are on my lap impact all of

these massive screens in front of me you

can see when again when you play it

forward that this is going to get

cheaper and cheaper and cheaper and

cheaper more accessible the apps going

to get better and then we think about

what that's going to mean for loneliness

yeah when I could go hang out you know

with my friends in a virtual world and

do my work in a virtual world and date

in a virtual world watch pornography in

a virtual world and all of these things

no I still like hugging and holding

hands how do you do

that you can't do that in there are you

hope like are you hopeful for us being

able to turn around the loneliness and

isolation epidemic I mean it's a tough

one I think we have to you know rethink

how we live and what we do and the

communities we build and I think there

efforts of that happening all around so

just at the same time we're seeing this

epidemic of loneliness we're also seeing

you know a lot of initiatives of

community building and connection and

belonging and so there's a lot of these

communities that I'm involved with that

are happening and and you know I'm on

the board of something called the belong

Center which is really about addressing

loneliness and creating ways and

mechanisms for people to connect and be

with each other in real time I think it

needs to be a systemic thing I think a

lot with a lot of the issues we've

talked about relating to longevity and

diet the best answers are probably going

to be the really TR truly systemic ones

that come from how we designed societies

yeah like regulation and policy and how

we designed cities and green spaces and

libraries and community community

centers and all these kinds of things

yeah that seems to you know I I did a um

I realized this was a problem a long

time ago and I I went to Haiti after the

earthquake and I I went helping there

when it was just a disaster one of the

first Medical Teams on the ground and uh

in that process I met Paul Farmer who

was an incredible Visionary doctor from

har Harvard who went to Haiti and helped

solve the problem of TB and AIDS by

building community health workers and he

then went on to build a network of

community health workers of over 11,000

globally it was a model for the Clinton

and Gates Foundation and what he

realized was that we didn't didn't have

a lack of the right science or the right

medicines to heal these problems we we

know what to do with TB andas it was it

was you know a lack of people being able

to do the basic things that they needed

to do like get clean water or have a

watch know what time it was and so he

built this network of community health

workers and realized that Community was

medicine and so he he was their

neighbors and so I I came back from that

very moved and I realized that chronic

disease was also an issue that that

chronic disease was wasn't wasn't

infectious but it was contagious right

you're more likely to be overweight if

your friends overweight than if your

family members are overweight right that

your social networks are more important

than your genetic work networks in

determining your health right you're

you're basically you look around at your

five closest friends it's probably kind

of the way you are too right and and so

I realized that we needed to use the

power of community to transform our

health and our behavior and and and I

can tell you what to eat and what to do

but if all your friends are doing the

opposite it's going to be hard right so

I I created a program with Rick Warren

called The Daniel Plan faith-based

wellness program where we got 15,000

people to sign up in the first week at

quarter million pounds or lost in the

first year we created a book called The

Daniel Plan of how to do this in

community so it was it was we call it

the five FS for for getting healthy

right it's Faith

Friends food Fitness and focus which is

your mindset so and and it was amazingly

effective we scaled it to thousand

churches around the world and and it

really was helping people in small

groups do this together so there there

was no health coach there was no

nutritionist it was just you know me and

another doctor and we basically created

this program which could be delivered in

a curriculum that people did in small

groups together and this Saddleback

Church with Rick Warren had an

infrastructure already of groups meeting

every week so we just hijacked that and

put the curriculum in there and people

did it and and it was really powerful

and we've seen that now at Cleveland

Clinic where I work and we've done that

with with groups there as well that lost

F Focus do you is that an umbrella word

also for purpose purpose meaning and

purpose Yeah Yeah from reading your work

I I came to learn that purpose is a sort

of longevity Factor

100% to what extent I mean the data is

really clear I was a recent paper in

Journal of the American Medical

Association showed that those who had

meaning and purpose lived seven years

longer and what do they mean by meaning

and purpose in that context it's

whatever your meaning and purpose is it

could be you want to be there for your

grandchild it could be you're a

scientist and want to make a discovery

it could be that you you're a novelist

you want to write your next novel or

it's not a job necessarily it's not no

it doesn't have to be I mean for me you

know my purpose is ending needless

suffering uffing for millions of people

through the power of this new thinking

and model and and the new company that I

co-founded function health is I think

the tip of the spear that's going to be

able to do that at scale by empowering

people with their own Health Data giving

them an AI co-pilot to uplevel their

health and to help them understand

what's going on in real time and to me

building that creating that scaling that

getting people access to things that are

really hard to get for people that it's

not happening in your doctor's office or

your Healthcare System not happening in

your annual physical you're not getting

the latest science and medicine so how

do we accelerate that change so for me

that that that drives me every day gets

me excited to wake up and I'm very

passionate but of course you know I'm

also passionate about my friends and my

community I'm passionate about my health

I'm passionate about having fun you know

like and doing things that I love so I

think you know it's really important to

design your life and in terms of your

values what do you care about what

matters to you what makes you come alive

what gives you energy what takes away

your energy and and focus on those

things that that take you to where you

want to go why would not having a

purpose make us die earlier I mean you

see it all the time Stephen I mean you

look at you know people retire literally

in the retirement age here is 65 which

I'm going to be this year which is a

little scary to say

that you know I'm just getting started

and uh people think well you know if you

look at people who retire the the death

rate happens so fast like people who

retire die die like they there's a much

higher death rate if if for example

you're married and your spouse dies and

you've been together your life whole

life you're likely to die very quickly

after that is this STS to support that

100% 100% that's crazy

yeah why what happens you know wonder

you stop moving you get depressed yeah

you get depressed you stop moving I I

had a patient who the most beautiful

relationship I I I it was such a deep

love and they were together for like 40

years and his wife got breast cancer and

she just didn't make it and when he died

and he was healthy guy he was fit

healthy ate well he went into heart

failure like literally heart failure his

heart couldn't pump and he he had a true

medical condition that showed up on

scans and imaging he was in trouble and

I was like wow you know I looked it up

and and there's actually evidence for

emotional shock and loss heartbreak

literally his heart broke and that

caused his heart to literally break

physically not just emotionally and we

were able to get him back and fix it by

dealing with that emotional heartbreak

and by using energy healing and a lot of

other things with him that that helped

him overcome it but that's when I was

like wow you know the mind you know

listen even the biggest and most

powerful Pharmacy in the world is

between your ears you know and it can do

all kinds of stuff trauma yeah does

trauma play a role in all longev 100% I

mean you know um it's it's amazing how

in medical school we just did not learn

this but there there there's such a link

between trauma and everything in your

life but particularly disease there's a

questionnaire we use called the ace

questionnaire adverse childhood

events and it basically ask you a series

of questions you can look it up online

you can link to it in your show notes

it's free and it says well were your

parents divorce was there alcoholism in

your family did your parents fight in

front of you did anybody hit you were

you sexually abused and he just goes

through this whole list there any family

members in prison you know and and the

higher your

score the more likely you are to have

health issues be obese have autoimmune

disease get cancer get heart disease get

diabetes it's really striking and so

trauma is registered in your body and

there's a book called the body keeps

score and Carolyn mace was a sort of a

Mystic said you your biography becomes

your biology and it works the other way

too from up down right your biology can

become your bi graphy if you're eating

crap and you're nutritionally deficient

and you have all these health issues and

mercury poisoning well that can kind of

affect your mental health too in your

story but but we know really clearly

that your trauma is influencing your

biology and so we have to we have to

deal with this in medicine whether it's

depression or whether it's autoimmune

diseases or whether it's other health

issues and we now have an incredible

revolution in psychedelics which is for

the first time showing us that we have

treatments for things like PTSD which

really were very hard to treat you can

give people a sedative you know but that

was it maybe some therapy which barely

worked if that but you you start to work

with these these compounds that change

the structure and function of the brain

which is really amazing to me it's not

just uh like a normal drug where you

take the drug and you have to keep

taking it men you took OIC once and you

would stay losing weight forever right

it's like taking these psychedelics you

it once or twice and it changes your

physiological functioning in your brain

response it changes compounds in your

brain like bdnf that grow new brain

connections and repair and heal things

in your brain and so we're seeing new

ways to deal with trauma that I I feel

really exciting and Maps is an

organization um The multi-disciplinary

Association of psychedelic studies you

can share that link but it's it's

sharing all the research about treating

depression anxiety trauma responses PTSD

relational issues what you think of

psychedelics have you tried them yes I

have which ones have you tried

you know all of them which ones haven't

you tried um I haven't tried Iain oh

okay yeah it's quite strong adct for

addiction right yeah um but you know I

grew up in the 70s so uh mushrooms were

psychedelic mushrooms were big part of

my my Awakening uh and and my personal

Journey tried LSD I've tried peyote I've

tried iwasa I've tried bufo I've tried

pretty much all of them because I just

sort of an adventurer in my biology and

and my mind and I can tell you that they

really helped me uh which one helped you

the most and and give me a a story of

how it helped you my girlfriend's

actually in uh in Costa Rica right now

serving iasa and I spent a year and a

half um investing in and we took a um

psychedelics company public called the

tie Life Sciences so I work in

partnership with maps and Compass

Pathways we at a tie we invest Inc

Compass Pathways which is so I'm quite

heavily oh you're very into that yeah

yeah yeah i' yeah spent about a year as

a year and a about a year as the

creative director of the company purely

because I I just was interested so I

invested about seven figures in the

business then I joined as a creative

director to stay close and then I my my

contract was basically to leave on the

day of the IPO so it ipoed on the NASDAQ

3.4 billion and I left the next day

basically yeah amazing but it was so

just it was because I was interested in

mental health I heard about this

epidemic of Mental Health no good

answers yeah and psychedelics and the

clinical research that was coming out

around things like

cybin which is the active compound of

magic mushrooms were just really

interesting and I I didn't need to work

so I just it's fascinating I mean you

know there was this uh recently heard a

presentation by a Stanford scientist

who's studying ibigan for trauma

depression anxiety but addiction and

it's quite interesting it's a compound

that you take from a bark of a tree from

West Africa the batry and it somehow

shuts off the withdrawal so we know

medically that when you stop narcotics

you go through physiological withdrawal

which is a medical phenomena it just

stops that somehow it's like a one dose

one dose now there is metabolites that

stay for a long time nor Iain that may

mitigate those effects and block those

receptors and we don't really quite

understand it yet but I did I did have a

thought which is that when you look at

the Yale food addiction scale which is a

validated metric for food addiction now

different people have various degrees

right there are people who can't stop

eating sheet cakes and there's people

who you know crave ice cream once in a

while it's not true food addiction but

you look at the data globally 14% of

adults and 12% of kids meet the criteria

according to the Yale food addiction

scale for food addiction from Ultra

processed food from sugar carb refined

carbohydrates so I I actually talked to

one of the leading Ryan researchers I

said wouldn't it be interesting to do a

pilot where we took people who had food

addiction and we gave them iig gain and

we saw what happened I mean it could be

fascinating you know could shut that off

and and maybe there's going to be and I

think there will be a nor ibigan which

is a metabolite of ibigan that I think

may be doing a lot of the effect that's

something you can take on a daily basis

instead of OIC for example what I heard

about Iain is that the side effects are

quite yeah it can be quite significant

but it's it's the main side effect is is

a heart side effect it increases

something called the QT and interval

which can put you into an arhythmia

which can a fatal heart rhythm um and

you'll have to be monitored when you're

taking it but we found it if you take uh

High higher Doses and even IV magnesium

which is actually what we use in the

emergency room to treat arhythmia like

if your heart's beating like crazy and

you're going to die we give you

intervenous magnesium as the last resort

well you can pre-treat with magnesium

and that stops that phenomena so there's

a lot of ways to deal with it but I do

think we're in a psychedelic era and uh

it's really hard to me because I think

there's so many problems as a doctor I

can't solve you know if someone has a

health issue but their trauma is

controlling their

behavior and unless they deal with the

trauma it's hard to address the things

that they need to do to fix their

behavior in their life right so if

you're if you're you're traumatized

because you were raped or had sexual

abuse when you were a kid you know and

I've had my own trauma I had incest when

I was a kid I had you know kind of a

rough K childhood in many ways incest

when you were a kid yeah yeah so I've

had to deal with this myself and doing

that has really helped me to kind of

recover and repair my own emotional

architecture and have a really a sense

of security and safety which I didn't

have before did you have symptoms of

that trauma in in your early life or

your adult life 100% um you I was highly

functional obviously I mean I'm doctor

I've written many books done a lot in

the world but it was really affecting my

um way of being in relationships and

your sexual health or your in your sort

of not my Sexual Health but more my

romantic relationships and even

sometimes work relationships where I I

really developed a a pattern and my it