A lot of people do this on dates and it

drives me crazy. Look, watch this.

Vanessa, yesterday you and my team did

some matchmaking. Yes. Okay, so we had

the very first date and I pre- coached a

gentleman and I was coaching the girls

via an earpiece and I was shocked by

these

dates. Please don't do

that. This is why we're having a baby

crisis.

I got angry after this date. Why? I was

like, girl, we handed this guy to you on

a silver platter. She was physically

attracted to him and I asked her, "Would

you like to go out with him again?" And

she said to me, "Really?" Yeah. Yeah.

And now we are missing opportunities for

connection, the thing that's going to

make us healthy, happy, and live a long

time. Vanessa Van Edwards has helped

over 400,000 students crack the code on

human behavior, decoding universal body

language, and sharing sciencebacked

secrets for better dates, smoother

conversations, and bigger career wins.

Vanessa Van Edwards, welcome back. The

first place I want to start is, can we

change who we are? They've actually

researched this and every person on

planet Earth has these five personality

traits and they fall on a spectrum high,

medium or low and they're somewhere

between 42 to 57% heritable for example

neuroticism which is how you worry and

high neurotics like me produce less

serotonin more slowly. Serotonin makes

us feel calm and so like I am having far

more negative experiences than the same

person in the room and that's genetic.

But there is 30 to 40% potential for

change. You want a better relationship,

you want a raise, you want a promotion,

you want more friends. The good news is

anyone can learn these cues and

techniques such as decoding the seven

universal micro expressions we all do

unconsciously. How to spot a liar, the

number one mistake people make in a

first impression and how to become a

master communicator. Can I teach them to

you, please? Let's start

with This has always blown my mind a

little bit. 53% of you that listen to

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And my commitment to you is if you do

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this show is better for you every single

week. We'll listen to your feedback.

We'll find the guests that you want me

to speak to, and we'll continue to do

what we do. Thank you so

much. Vanessa Van Edwards, welcome back.

Thank you for having me back. How you

been? Oh my gosh, your folks are so

kind. Can I just say since the last

interview, the incredible people have

reached out and just been supportive and

kind. They ask amazing questions and so

I'm just so grateful. So, I've been

really good. Just in case anybody

doesn't know who you are and what you

do, you're going to have to take me

back. What is it you do and who are you?

I'm a recovering awkward person and I

help other awkward folks learn how to

communicate. I have books and courses

and I love helping very very smart

people share their ideas better.

Communicate online and in person. Oh,

all of it. All of it. Slack, text,

email, online, in person, on the phone.

We can talk about vocal power, video

power. You are communicating all the

time even if you don't realize it. And I

that's that's the hidden opportunity.

How important is it like how pivotal is

it and can it be for someone's life if

they master the skill of communication,

first impressions, and all of the things

that you educate us on so articulately?

It will get you everything you want. You

want a better relationship, you want a

soulmate, you want a raise, you want a

promotion, you want a business, you want

more friends, you want a support system,

it will even get you longevity. That's

how strong I feel about it. If you have

incredible relationships and you're able

to communicate your ideas so people like

you and they listen, your life changes.

But is it is it not genetic? You know,

like are are we set in our ways? Look,

there are certain people born out the

womb charismatic. Great hand gestures,

great eyebrows right out the womb. There

are those very unique people, but most

of us learn charisma. Most really,

really charismatic leaders, they've

learned, ah, this non-verbal cue gets

people to smile. Oh, this vocal power

people pay attention and lean in. And

they've accidentally or purposefully

learned how to hone their charisma. And

the good news is, I think anyone can

learn it. Anyone, no matter how awkward

you are, believe me, I'm proof. You can

learn it. You're proof. I'm recovering

awkward person. I was so awkward. I have

I had a really hard time communicating

with people. I was not wellliked. I was

had very few friends. If I can learn it,

anyone can learn it. I promise. It's

almost impossible to believe that you

were an awkward person. I promise. I You

know, also awkwardness dresses up in

different ways, right? So, I think most

people when they think of awkward, they

think of that stereotypical robotic

unreadable saying weird things. That was

not my brand of awkward. My brand of

awkward was trying to be impressive when

I clearly wasn't. Telling funny stories

that were not funny, talking too much.

Shocker, right? It was saying the wrong

things and overcommunicating. I also had

that Labrador energy, you know, like

that golden retriever energy where I'm

like,

do you know what I mean? She just stuck

her tongue out. I'm like super into

people. And that was awkward because

people would be like, "Back up. It's

okay." And that was awkward because it

created I I was so overeager. I so

wanted people to like me that I feel

like, you know, I was leaning into

everyone all the time and that created

awkwardness for people because I was

trying so hard. Write into the show or

speak to me in the street and it's so

surprising that the thing even if they

live in these, you know, densely

populated cities, the sort of most

pressing issue on their mind is I don't

know how to make a friend. And it's

funny because sometimes they start to be

in a gym and it's like there's 300

people surrounding us right now and not

knowing how to walk up and say hello or

introduce yourself. Yeah. But a lot of

us I think have casual friends. We have

like you know acquaintances, people they

know what we do but then we don't know

how to level up. Like I believe that

everyone should have core friendship

values. Mine are for me personally

respect meaning they don't show up late.

They respect my time. Self honesty. I

actually like honesty but I prefer self

honesty in a friend. I had friendships

that didn't work for a long time because

they lied to themselves about things.

And I am not a liar. So I would be like,

"But he's terrible to you." And they'd

be like, "What? No, he's not."

Selfdeception doesn't work for me.

That's a core friendship value. Cannot

do it. Do you know what I'm saying? Self

honesty. Self honesty specifically. Um,

and the last one is depth. So once I

started going deep, I realized I need

that. I cannot have a surface level

friend. Like I want to know how is your

marriage, but how is it really? Like I

want to go really really deep. And if I

sense that there's any kind of

hesitation there, we're not going to be

friends. So, I think it's important to

think about, yes, hobbies, great, like

you want to do activities with these

people, but what are your core

friendship values? And how do I figure

out what my core friendship values are?

Okay. Think about all the things that

drive you crazy about your current

friends. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Think about

friendships that didn't work out, that

had a lot of potential, but like they

you just they fizzled. you never quite

had a good time with them or friends

that you get together with them all the

time but they still they still wouldn't

be a best friend. Why?

Okay. Yeah. Like what what is blocking

what is missing there and it could be on

either side, right? It's like not all

just up to them. So think about what

drives you crazy and then like what

makes you feel healed, what makes you

feel good, what makes you feel calm,

what makes you feel like yourself.

Personal responsibility is a big one for

me. I think give me an example of that.

Just like it's it's a deep belief that

you are in control of your life and you

are control of your outcomes because

then it's like almost the antithesis of

victimhood. Totally. And you don't want

to be dealing with a friend who's um

chronically engaged in like victimhood,

you know. So that was you want heroes.

And how many people have you taught the

skill of better communication and better

connections to in the last decade? Oh my

gosh. Well, at least 400,000 students

who I can count, but millions more.

Millions. 100,000 students. Yes. And

it's it's actually probably way more

than that, but that's just what we can

count. And what is like the essence of

what they're trying to get? Cuz

obviously a skill is a path to something

that they want. What is the thing that

they want? They want to be master

communicators. Why? They want to be able

to ask for what they want and get it. If

you are a master communicator, no matter

what you want, again, if it's a partner

or a business deal, you can get it if

you can communicate. Well, can you make

me a master communicator? For sure.

Let's do it then. Let's do it. The first

place I want to start is with first

impressions. Yeah. And how one can make

a great first impression because first

impressions are like I make them all day

every day. When I meet people on the

podcast, in business, in in the street,

at the gym, someone might listen to the

show, they come up to me. So, I'm

constantly trying to think about how to

make a better first impression because

from the work that I've read of yours,

they really matter, right? They really

matter. They really our first

impressions are actually very accurate.

They they find 76% accurate with our

personality traits. In other words,

people can accurately guess after a

first impression how extroverted you

are, how agreeable, how neurotic.

Actually, neurotic is the hardest one to

guess. We can hide that really well.

Openness and conscientiousness. We're

pretty good at guessing that. Like, I

could guess that based on just the first

few seconds of interaction, which means

they're lasting. So, if you've made a

bad first impression, it's hard to

recover. I I hate to be the bearer bad

news. We can work on it, but nailing

that first impression will set you up

for a lifetime of success with that

person. So, it's very important that we

don't throw them away. And this is the

number one mistake people make in a

first impression. They do it like

this. Oh, hi. Nice to meet you. Looking

down at their phone or their iPad or

their computer or their notepad or their

book. When we are looking down, it looks

very much like the universal defeat

posture. Universal defeat is when we

tuck our chin to our chest. We usually

have our very little space between our

shoulders and our earlobes. We have our

arms close to our sides. This Yeah.

Don't you feel kind of horrible? You

look horrible. Oh, thank you.

When you check your phone, every time

you check your phone, you accidentally

look like a loser. And I mean that

literally in terms of losing and

winning. So, in a first impression,

you're waiting in the waiting room for a

big job interview. You're waiting for

your date for possibly your perfect

person. And what are you doing? Checking

your phone. So, I'm I'm sat there

looking like a loser. Yeah. That first

impression that happens in the first few

seconds of seeing you. And this is

another mistake introverts make. They

think their first impression happens

starts the moment they start talking.

No, your first impression happens the

moment someone first sees you. That's

when they walk into a room, open the

door, walk into a restaurant, or look at

your profile picture. Profile pictures

are even more important. They've found

that people make a first impression of

you within the first 100 milliseconds of

looking at your profile picture. That's

so fast that you barely even realize you

saw a picture. But we are so attuned to

look at someone's facial expressions,

their body posture, what's visible, our

clothing, our ornaments. And what's

fascinating about this research is they

found that different pictures of the

same person can give different first

impressions, which means we are in

control of our first impressions. If

different pictures of the same person,

like if you have five different pictures

of yourself and you put them up all

different LinkedIn profiles, you people

are going to make different judgments of

you, which means you can control the

kind of judgment you want to make by

picking the right picture, but also

having the right body language when

someone first sees you. Someone did a

study on that. Yeah, I think Simin

Vazier, I think, did this study. Yeah,

don't quote me, but I I believe Simin

Vazier does a lot on digital first

impressions. And what's incredible is

that small tweaks to your cues can have

a massive impact on your impression. So,

for example, I've played around with

this on mine where I'll have my hand in

my picture. Like, there's a big

difference. If you were to see me like

this with my my face on my hand, it's

called a face platter. Okay? So, for

anyone that can't see you, you've got

both of your hands out and your chin

resting in the middle of it. It's called

a face platter, right? Think of like my

face on a platter for anyone who's

listening. This is a very different

impression than this. Like same face,

face platter, warm, almost feminine,

kind of girly versus this. Very

professional, very competent. Just that

one difference. So all these cues are

changing, especially if you're h for

impression happening on dating profile

apps on LinkedIn, in your email, like a

little picture in email, your website.

It is changing the way people treat you

and think of you. Okay. So let me show

you some profile photos. I would love to

see. And you tell me what they're

giving. All right. Okay. What is this

giving? Okay, so she's leaning her head

to one side with her cheek on her hand.

First, immediately a head tilt. Head

head tilt is a universal sign of

engagement and warmth. She's giving me

nurturing vibes. Doesn't Don't you want

to tell her all your problems? Like I

would guess she's a therapist or a life

coach. She has a watch on, which is a

good ornament for competence. So, she's

probably a therapist or maybe a

psychoanalyst. Probably has a degree.

She also wears glasses. We like women in

glasses and makeup for very competent.

That actually ups our competence factor.

By the way, this is just the research,

not my opinion. And she has a a sweater

tied around her uh top, and that's very

conservative. So, I would say warm and

nurturing. Could be a grandmother likely

in a self health profession.

Correct.

So, some cues there we can learn from is

we want to balance out the friendliness,

the the warmth, the approachability with

the with the take me seriously. So, you

take her seriously because of her watch

and her glasses and her lack of a smile.

Those are all cues of competence. We

like that. We also like those cues of

warmth. Head tilt, hand on face, and a

soft smile. So in that way, it's a

perfect bl balance or blend. What about

this guy profile photo? Okay. So we are

seeing a gentleman with uh no hands. So

we see no hand gestures, just his face.

He's also tilting his chin down and his

forehead is forward. Um you also see a

genuine smile. The best thing about this

picture is he's doing an authentic smile

because you can see those cheek muscles

are activated. Uh, zepper upper

zygomaticus. Terrible at saying that,

but these muscles are activated. So,

very likable. Oh, yeah. I like that.

Good job. Yes. I love this smile. Um, so

we love that authentic smile. So, he's

very warm and approachable. He's also

making eye contact with the camera.

Slight head tilt. I would actually say

this is very warm, almost too warm. If

he is a doctor or a professor or someone

who needs to be taken

seriously, I don't know if I'd go to him

with my problems. It's a lot of warmth

for that photo. And by the way, I want

to make this as helpful for folks at

home. So, think of your impression like

a thermostat. You can dial up your trust

and your approachability by adding cues.

So, if you want to add warmth or trust

or liability, you can add a head tilt.

You can show your hands. Movement is

also one. So, sometimes you'll see

people who are like leaning their head

over to the side or even in the process

of a walk. That's why all those

photographers use wind. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

It actually adds like this weird element

of warmth if you want to dial up um

competence power. If you want to be

taken seriously, especially if you're in

a career where you've been challenged or

interrupted or not taken seriously or

underestimated, you really want to dial

up competence in your profile picture.

Like the cover of my books, I am not

smiling. And that is because I'm a quite

a smiley person and I want people to

take me seriously. So, I made a choice

to not smile on my covers. What about

this chap? All right. This is a dating

app profile photo. Look, I love it.

Okay, this guy has a cat around his

neck. And you know what? I love it. Why?

Because if you love cats, you're going

to love this guy. If you hate cats,

you're going to swipe. We want to make

people not like us with the ornaments we

choose, right? Like, I love when my

husband wears a cowboy hat because

certain people are going to love it.

Certain people aren't going to like it.

He's going to find his people. We're in

Austin, Texas, so it would be weird if

he like wore it in London or something

like that. D, what' you think? Okay, so

I do not like sunglasses in photos at

all. And the reason for this is because

research shows that we can produce

oxytocin, which is the chemical of

connection even through a lens. When you

can't see someone's eyes, it puts a

little barrier in our head of like, I

don't know. I don't know about this

person. That's chemically your body

being like, I cannot see her eyes. So,

I'm a hard no on sunglasses. This is

like she's very distant from me. Even

though she has a beautiful smile, I

can't see the upper cheek muscles and I

can't see her eyes. is does that apply

to real life too? The sunglasses point.

Like does it disconnect us from people?

You know, I haven't seen research on

that. I've only seen research on

sunglasses in photos. So, I'm going to

say in person I think it's okay. But I

will say like have you ever been with

someone and they like take off their

glasses to see you better? Has that ever

happened to you? Yes. It feels good.

Yeah. Like they can if you want to show

someone, I'm going to really listen to

you. Take off your glasses or roll up

your sleeves. So there's also we know

this is a cue is like let's get into it.

I often see like leaders when they're

getting into the get into it part of

their speech they roll up their sleeves.

Another one that I like is this one

rubbing your hands together. Okay. So

this is a universal get ready cube. If

you are about to share something really

really good to your team. You want to go

like this guys. I got something good

today.

You would like it. You would like it if

we were in a team meeting. Yeah. Okay.

Right. You got because it's a universal

cue of warming up. So, going back then

to first

impressions, how do I make a really bad

first impression? A really bad first

impression. Yeah. So, we'll do the bad

first, then we'll do the good. You said

one of the the worst things one can do

is to walk up on their phone, on a

device, etc. Okay. So, bad is taking up

as little space as possible. Yeah.

Right. No space between our arms and our

torso, no space between our shoulders

and our earlobes. Um, the second thing

is hidden hands. So, hands in pockets,

hand to the table, hands not in shot. We

like to see hands, especially right

away. It makes us feel intention, right?

We like know what's going to happen. So,

I'm like, "Hi, good to see you." I put

my hands, a lot of my hands are in my

profile pictures. That's a bad one is

hidden hands. And the last one is

avoidant gaze. We really do like to make

eye contact within the first few seconds

of meeting someone. It makes us feel

like someone's avoiding that oxytocin.

It gives us a chemical burst of trust.

They've even, you know, had people do

nose sprays full of oxytocin and it

immediately makes them share more, open

more, connect more. Yeah. So, we want

direct eye contact, visible hands, and a

broad body. What about I call the triple

threat, by the way. The triple threat.

That's the triple threat. What about

when sat at a table like this? Because I

I sit here for hundreds and hundreds of

hours listening to people. Yeah. And I

am I've never said this before, but I'm

always really quite conscious about my

body language because I don't want to

signal the wrong thing, but because I'm

thinking about so many things at once.

I'm like doing research while someone's

talking. I'm reading my notes. I'm

writing sometimes. I'm jotting something

down and I'm thinking about the next

thing I'm thinking about the edit.

There's a lot going on in my head. Um I

never want them to misconstrue it as

like a reflection on them. Mhm. So, what

would you re how would you recommend

that I conduct myself whether it's as a

podcaster or in a meeting when you're

with a client or whatever to signal that

I'm warm and competent and all the good

stuff. Okay. So, first easiest one is

you're always angled towards me. I'm so

grateful that you don't have us angled

at a V. So many podcasts I do are like

that and it is very hard to connect with

someone when they're like that. So,

you're already laying the groundwork of

of of being aligned in your office right

now. If you work at an office, move your

chairs so they're not at an angle

towards you that they're right at you.

That's already going to set you up for

success because I know we're on the same

page even if you're looking at something

else. Then you want to think about 60%

eye contact. It's very specific. In

Western cultures, they find that the

ideal the sweet spot for oxytocin is 60

70 to 70%. Some East Asian cultures,

it's less eye contact. So that's okay.

But if you can hit that 60%. That's not

100%. Especially when I'm making an

important point. Like you'll often be

doing nose and you'll look up at me when

I'm making an important point. That's

all I need to know I got this. Keep

going. And then really powerful people

make eye contact at the end of their

point. So you could be talking like

this, explaining this, remembering

something, but let me tell you, at the

very end of my point, that's when it

matters.

Interesting. And I think you actually do

that pretty naturally. I don't know if

you realize you're doing it, but if

you're in a meeting or pres presenting

or you're an interviewer, that's

actually what matters more is that at

the end of your sentence, you're sealing

it with that eye contact. Yeah. Cuz I

look, I'm doing it now. I look away

because I I'm struggling with my ideas,

trying to articulate them, and then once

I've got it, I come back to you and make

the point like that. Yes. And that

actually is good. It shows me that

you're processing. We know as humans

that I cannot do complex math problems

while making eye contact. Yeah. We can't

do it. And so actually it makes you look

very thoughtful and pensive for the 40%

you're not looking at me when you're

gathering that actually leaders do that

because they're showing I'm

authentically coming up with the answer.

It would be very weird if you were

delivering 100% with 100% eye contact

because I would feel like it was

scripted. Yeah. That's one of the

reasons why I think um presenters make

this problem and I whenever I watch like

Shark Tank or Dragon's Den, a big

mistake they make is they're so

rehearsed they don't break eye contact

and it gives you sort of a robotic

feeling. So if you're practicing a

presentation, you actually want to have

a little bit of like adlib in there. You

want to be processing around because it

shows you're authentically grabbing the

information and that shows competence,

right? Highly competent people, they

don't need a script because they know

their stuff so well that they can just

grab it out for you. They can think on

the spot. Low competent people are

memorized. That is why like the TED

talks that we like the best, the

pictures we like the best, they're

basically having a really smart

conversation with you and you like it.

So I like that you're gathering away

from me that you're thinking of a

question. The worst interviews I have

are where someone is just beating me

with questions and not thinking about

it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So gestures, eye contact, um it's

okay to make only 60% eye contact.

That's the triple threat. The other

thing in a first impression that I

really like is breaking the script,

right? I think in a first impression,

it's okay to be like, "Hey, good

morning." But when we do the how are

you? Good. How are you? Good. How are

you? Good. How are you? And you get like

that horrible like loop. I'm going to

challenge everyone to try to break the

script with how are you? So, when

someone asks how are you, don't say

good. Don't say busy but good. Try to

answer with like a little bit of humor.

Okay? If you can. Now, I'm not funny.

So, we should take this advice with a

grain of salt. You are funny, but I'm

not that funny. But there's a couple

things you can do. So, one is you could

answer with a number. So, like you

laughed. I didn't even do it yet. You

already laughed, right? Seven. Most

people say seven. I was going to say

seven. Oh, really? Right. So, if you're

like someone's like, "How are you?" And

you're like, "Seven on the 10 scale,

right?" Like it just it breaks the

script a little bit. I also love when

you say um what you're wrestling with.

So, I might be like, "Just been fighting

my inbox all day, but a good 10 out of

10." Like, sometimes good to give like a

little bit of context of like what

you've been dealing with for the day. Or

if you know that you look a mess, you

can be like, "Better on the inside than

the outside." Better on the inside than

the outside. Okay. Right. Like something

that just gets people thinking a little

bit. It kind of breaks the script. And

it makes for a very nice first

impression. So, first impressions, make

sure the conversation doesn't hit a dead

end essentially. And and and break the

script. Yeah. Break the script. Break

the script. So, like I'd rather you take

a little bit of a risk and have some

conversational courage to not do the

script, right? Because then you're going

to make a way better first impression.

And that also means not asking how are

you, but instead being like, what's

good? So, like when I start a

conversation, like anytime, I try never

to ask how are you? I try to say what's

good? Anything good today? It's a very

subtle subtle change on that and it it

makes people think for a second in a

good way. They're like, oh yeah, what's

good? And it totally changes the nature

of the conversation. I've I do this here

sometimes. So when a guest comes in, the

question that I always ask pretty much

everyone that sits down is like, "What's

front of mind for you at the moment?" Is

that a good one? I like that one a lot.

I would prefer Okay. What have you been

looking forward to? Are you looking

forward to anything in your life?

Because is that because it's positive?

Yeah. It's juicing excitement. So like

our I think our job if you want to

really be a master communicator is you

are gifting good chemicals. You know

that phrase like leave people better

than you found them. Yeah. I take that

quite literally. I think master

communicators are literally gifting

beautiful chemicals to the other person.

They're making people feel super full of

dopamine. Dopamine is like very

simplified excitement, motivation,

energy. They're gifting testosterone.

You feel capable. You feel smart. Wow,

you're good at what you do, right? And

you leave feeling like like I'm so good.

This is for men and women. You're

gifting

serotonin, calm, belonging. You got

this. You can be yourself with me. I

give you permission to be yourself. I

love you for who you are. Like I think

one of the reasons why people often

verbal vomit on me. Like they tell me

everything about their lives. I think

it's because I'm I'm like trying to gift

them serotonin. I want them to feel that

like they can be absolutely themselves

and I accept them for exactly who they

are. So serotonin, dopamine, and

testosterone. If we can gift those out,

I call it like the chemical cocktail.

Like that's the cocktail I want to give

to everyone in my conversation. And

that's what master communicators are

doing. And how would I give you all

those things? Okay. So, you break the

script by just waking me up, right?

Like, this is going to be different.

Then you ask, "What have you been

looking forward to?" Like, if you ask me

what's been front of mind, I'm going to

probably give you a negative answer to

be quite honest with you. Have you do

you usually get negative answers to that

question? Negative or neutral or it's

typically something workrelated. So,

they'll say, "My book tour, I'm trying

to get this published." Blah blah blah.

Yeah. And you're bored, aren't you? Uh,

it's somewhat interesting to me cuz I

write it down and then I'll talk to them

about it. But I mean, if it was a social

conversation, it wouldn't be

interesting. Yeah. And I would argue

like you would be more engaged if you

got an exciting answer even in this

setting. So you're bored, they're bored.

So one, if you're like looking forward

to anything, got any fun plans coming

up? Those are all like gifting little

bits of dopamine. Then capitalizing on

any moment that I call it a meto moment.

I have this theory. It's called thread

theory. And it's this idea that in

conversation we are throwing threads at

each other. So like if we have a shared

thing, I have thrown a thread, you get

it, and you pull it. And it's like

you're trying to get even more out of

me. The more threads there are between

you and me, the more we like each other

and the closer we get. Me too moments

create serotonin. When I say I like X

and you're like, what? I like X, too.

We're like

like chemically. And that makes me feel

serotonin. It makes me feel calm,

belonging. I can be myself. So anytime

in a conversation that someone says

anything that you agree with or you feel

like I have that too, you want to

capitalize and be like thread me too.

How do you stop it feeling like you're

making it about yourself though because

if you said to me you've got a cyber

truck outside. If if if you walked in

and said, "Oh, I've got a just bought a

cyber truck." And I go, "I've just

bought a cybert truck." Okay. So there's

a big difference between how you said it

and how I said it. Okay. So I say, "I

just got a cybert truck." "Oh yeah, join

the club." That's what you want me to

say? Yeah. I wouldn't say it like that

though. There is a difference here

because I'm British and British people

are very like we're very like you know

what I mean? You're so demure. Is that

what it is? We're just very Oh yeah,

join the club. Could you imagine? I

would have liked it. You would freak out

that you're saying that you would like

it because it's so weird. Not because I

like weird people. Is there anything

else in the first impressions bucket

before we move on to second impressions?

And what I mean by that is really like

how do I then cement and invest in that

relationship so I can keep it. Mhm.

Okay. So, if you've made a good first

impression, you are set up for success.

It's great. If you're making a second

impression because you weren't sure how

the last one went, right, or you want to

kind of build on it further. Your best

bet is to show them how much they were

on your mind. Everyone's number one

worry in this world is, did I leave an

impression? Am I memorable? That's what

we want to know. So, the very first

thing you want to assure them is, h, I

loved our last meeting. I've been

looking so forward to this lunch. Right?

So, can you assure them that you're so

happy to see them, talk to them, hear

from them, say anything on the phone? Oh

my gosh, I'm so glad you

called. Like that warmth of you were

right to call, you were right to text,

you were right to show up, right? Like

if someone texts me, I of course like

not if I'm texting one all day long, but

if someone texts me and I'm like, "Oh my

gosh, I'm so glad you texted." I will

literally say that. I was just thinking

of you, right? Like, "Oh, I'm so glad

you reached out. I always love our

conversations. Like that immediate

you're good here is serotonin. That

that's that belonging feeling of like

you're already safe. You're letting

someone be themselves right off the bat.

What about online first impressions? Is

there anything that I need to think

about if I'm on because so much of our

lives runs on Zoom or Google Hangouts

now. So yes. Okay. So first, can we talk

about just um like dating apps first of

all? Okay. So they've actually done

research on this. You are better off

opening with a unique word or phrase

than just hi, hello, how are you? So

like howdy if you're in Texas, even if

you're not in Texas, howdy,

aloha, what's good? Anything that's not

that hi or hello is a little bit

different. It's going to make you stand

out. So if you can Hey. Nope.

You're defeating the spirit of the study

here. Okay. Okay. So like not a hey, not

a hi, not a what's up, not a how are

you. Okay. But like, can you have like a

like like a signature phrase or like uh

bingo? I would take it. You would take

it. Bingo. I'm in your

inbox. They they study this and they

found that we're there's so much noise.

There's so much noise that if you can be

the red apple. So, this is a story when

I was I used to be a camp counselor when

I was younger. That's how I made money.

And I noticed this phenomenon during

break where I would bring always a

basket of fruit for break. And usually

it was all red apples or all green

apples. And I noticed if I had a basket

of green apples and one red apple, every

single camper had to have that red

apple. But I would ask them, "Do you

like the red apple better?" And they'd

be like, "No, I just want that one cuz

it's the only one." And I've never

forgotten that in that I think that

really special people, master

communicators are the red apple. They're

not oranges. They're still fitting in

with everyone, but they're just like a

little bit different. And that's I think

how it should be both in business and

also in romance is can you be a red

apple? Well, you're still the same.

You're not like wacko crazy, but you're

like a little different than everyone

else. So like a bingo or a howdy or an

aloha or a shalom or whatever it is. I

think that it makes you stand out just

enough where you have that kind of peak

effect. The peak effect is like you piqu

someone's curiosity a little bit and

that that really works. That's why

marketing campaigns that are a little

different, they always work better. And

what about then on Zoom and other sort

of business professional environments?

Okay, so in Zoom in professional

environments, please turn your camera

on. Yeah, please turn your camera on.

This sounds obvious, but more and more

people are turning their camera off,

especially if you have backto-back

meetings, but if you can have your

camera on just for the first few

seconds, it is a gamecher for people's

perception of you. So one is make sure

that you are not accidentally negative.

Here's how this happens.

Can you see me? Can you hear me? Oh. Oh,

hi. A lot of Zoom impressions happen

where someone is caught off guard or

they're in the middle of like, can you

see me? Can you hear me? And they're

fixing themselves and then they make a

first impression. No, your first

impression already happened. It happened

the moment your camera turned on.

Remember, your first impression on video

happens the moment someone first sees

you, not when you start talking. So,

your first impression is usually, "Hey,

morning." So, you raised your hand

there. I always I always give a wave or

a hi. I make sure my camera is at least

3 ft away from my nose. Like I literally

have measuring tape to make sure I'm not

too close. I make sure that my body is

angled towards the camera. And then

usually I have a question ready. And

here's why. In person it's so much

easier to make conversation especially

around context or like oh you know how

was it getting here? I loved your cybert

truck. Very hard on Zoom. And so what

happens is you get on you go hi. Hi.

whether good where you are. It's like

it's so awkward. Be ready. Be ready with

an anecdote or a question. I like an

anecdote. So, if you've done anything

good, interesting, seen anything good or

interesting, I want you to be ready to

share it. It sounds like this. Hey,

morning. Oh my gosh, I just discovered

the best breakfast taco in Austin. Best

breakfast taco in Austin. Have you ever

had a breakfast taco? Whatever. But like

I was ready to go with that anecdote. I

think that that's how we should

pre-start all of our video calls is like

some small anecdote or story and that

also helps in conversation like I

believe everyone should have a story

toolbox. So in conversation there are

certain topics that will always come up.

Weather, traffic, and where you're from.

So here's my challenge. This is what

master communicators do. Whenever those

three topics come up, I want you to have

one story about each of them. It could

be a trivia. It could be a story. It

could be a fact that you're ready to go

to shift the conversation away from

boring weather to something really

interesting. When someone asks, "Where

are you from?" you should say, "Oh, I'm

from Los Angeles. Interesting fact,

interesting story." That little

interesting story. Like someone the

other day said to me, "Oh, I'm from this

place in maybe Liverpool." Liverpool.

And he said, "Oh, it's where Banksiey's

from." And I was like, "Oh." And we had

a whole conversation about Banksy. And I

was like, "That was it." He said where

he was from, but instead of being

Liverpool, I'd be like, "Cool. Never

been there." He was like, "Liverpool?

It's supposedly where Bangsy from?" I

was like, "Really? But don't we do we

even know who Banksy is?" And he's like,

"Well, we don't know, but he could have

been in my high school." We had a whole

fun conversation about Banksy. And I

asked him afterwards, I was like, "Do

you always share that comment?" He's

like, "Yeah, because it creates the most

interesting conversation." So, when you

say where you're from, have an

interesting fact or interesting story.

Um, I read a book about traffic

literally to have interesting stories

about traffic. Like for example, in Los

Angeles, everyone says the 101, the

five, the 10. That's the only place in

the world where we say that. So

sometimes I'll even like someone will be

like, "Oh, traffic." And I'll be like,

"Oh, so are you athe person? Do you say

'the'? And we get in a whole

conversation about." So like I have

little things that create a little bit

of juice and I'm always rotating them

out. So in your phone, create a note

called story toolbox and have the topics

that typically come up in your

conversation and start saving little

stories for them. It is the same stuff.

It's like 80 90% of the time it's the

same stuff. It's the same questions. How

are you? Where are you? How's the

weather? Traffic. I'm constantly adding

to that story toolbox and I'm rotating

out my facts and trivia cuz I get bored.

What if you like stumble across the same

person twice and you don't realize

you've hit them with the same story?

Because if you if we do I don't talk to

the same people again. Just

if we did a couple of Zoom calls and you

kept coming on going, "Are you a that

person?" Or I'd go, "Wait a minute."

Like, no. If we were doing regular Zoom

calls, you would know that I'm probably

going to ask you what's good and you'd

probably be pre-thinking about what's

good in your life. Like I have a friend

who always asks, "What are you

learning?" And whenever I go hang out

with him, I make sure I'm learning

something. Like it actually preps me in

a good way. So you would know me for

certain questions. And that would I

think my my experience is when you're

known for asking better questions,

people actually come into the

conversation more excited with better

expectations to interact with you. So

like be known for it. Like fine, be

known for the traffic trivia. Or like

worse comes to worse. Someone says, "Oh

yeah, the the thing. We talked about

that last time." And I'll be like, "Oh

my gosh, yes." And then I forgot you're

from Ohio.

Great. I remember you. How important is

the background on your Zoom videos?

Yeah, pretty important. I also um have a

thing against like blurred out fake

backgrounds. I don't like when people

use a fake background. I think there was

actually some Harvard business research

on this, but it was during uh COVID, so

it kind of changes, you know, the the

research. But as a human, we get very

distracted by fake backgrounds. So,

please think twice about blurring out

your background or putting a fake

background around you, like, you know,

one of those backdrops. The the the eye,

it's like a green screen. You know, when

you see on a green screen, your eye is

like something is not right. people will

perceive you as more inauthentic. I

would much rather you have conversation

cues behind you, right? Like you have

the most wonderful bookshelf of cues and

captivate up there, right? Like my

books, which I love. Um, and you rotate

those books out. So, as I'm talking, if

I wanted to make conversation with you,

I could be like, "Oh my gosh, yes, Peter

Aia's book outlive so good. Did you like

it? What was your biggest takeaway from

that?" Like, it gives me gifts of

conversation. I also noticed like one

time I was looking at Kevin Hart. He was

on a Zoom call and his background was

all of his favorite comedians behind him

and it was like a great conversation

starter and he even had um uh one of the

comedians behind him was like holding up

his hand like this like literally in a

permanent hello and I was like oh my

gosh like Kevin Hart doesn't even

realize he's doing the best non-verbal

cue there is which is palms like we love

a palm and what about looking at the

camera versus looking at the face of the

person so I try to make them as close as

possible so like just physically

speaking, if you can try to make your

camera and your and the person as close

as possible, it's going to help you be

more authentic, right? So, like my my

screen is not over here. I see some

people will have the mistake of they're

like, you know, they're off to the side

as and like kind of looking over their

shoulder at the camera. Please don't do

that. So, I have mine even like up

propped up. So, like your face would be

very close to the top of the camera. If

you can get 50% eye contact with them

and 50% eye contact with the camera, I'd

be very happy. Research does show that

we can get oxytocin through a screen.

Really? Yeah. Yeah, even though it's not

real, our brain is still sort of, oh,

yeah, they're they're looking at me,

they're talking to me, they're not

hiding anything. So, 50/50 if you could

do it. Now, we were talking a second ago

about first impressions, um, then second

impressions, but also dating profile

photos yesterday or the day before. My

team here took you to a bar in Austin,

Texas, and you met two different couples

that were going on a first date, and

your job was to coach them both so they

had success on that date. And on that

first date, one member of the couple had

an earpiece in so you could speak to

them directly and give them advice on

what they should do. We're going to play

some videos for anyone that's um able to

watch, but you give me the context and

what what happened and what you

observed. I was shocked by these dates.

I was shocked because every single

person except one hid their true

feelings and that did not serve them. So

we had the very first date and they were

very well matched by the way. Like I

liked both of them. What was shocking

about this date though is the female

Ashley, I could not tell if she liked

him. I literally had no idea. And I was

in her ear. So I was whispering in her

ear things to say and to ask. I was

giving her all the warmth cuz she looked

very cold. You would never have known

she was into this guy. You would not

have known. She said, "Oh yeah, I'm

really physically attracted to him."

Like what? You didn't act attracted at

all. And her questions were all very

factbased. What I wanted her to do is

bring in more warmth so we can watch it

if you want. Let's watch. See, are you

ready to meet your lady?

Are you ready? Yeah. Okay. So, what is

going to be your opening line? This is

the We got to prepare a conversation

starters because we can't do a how are

you, a how are you? We can't do that.

What if I started with a who are you?

Okay, that breaks the scripts. I like

it. That I mean, yeah, that's like what

the Can I give you another one though?

Can you consider uh what's been good?

And remember this could also the same

tip if you were to see someone in a

grocery store, someone in the park. It's

like what's the opener when you it's

cold, right? So like I I don't like a

how are you? I don't like a what's up

dog. Yeah. Weather's great, right? No.

No. No. I know. No, no. So like like

what's what's been good or like what

feels good to you? If you see something

you like about her, feel free to

authentically compliment. If Oh god.

Right. If you're like, "Oh my gosh, you

look beautiful." You know, like that's a

good one. So I think you can ask like

what what's the goal you're working on?

Like cash still a little good. Because

then they'll say, I mean, know what do

you think you're going to be in Austin

forever? That's a very casual way of

being like, what's your five-year plan?

My goal is a little bit of depth. I know

I know you can make friends with anyone,

but I want you to see if there's like an

actual connection there. Okay. Okay. And

then to see if it's if you want a

connection with her, I want you to ask

her out at the end of the date. Yeah.

So, what did you observe there when you

watch it back? Okay. So, do you see he

got nervous? Yeah. his body langu. Oh,

because I knew it's easy for him to make

friends with anyone. And very likable

men sometimes have a have really a hard

time getting serious relationships

because they're so likable. They can

make friends with everyone. They get

confused about where the where the depth

is. Is that a bit of a defense mechanism

as well? It's a defense mechanism. It's

also what he's good at. We want to do

what we're good at, which is, you know,

making a chitchat. And a lot of people

do this on dates. They'll be like,

"Where are you from in Austin?" No,

that's the wrong question. What you ask

is, "What are your favorite secret spots

in Austin? What do you love about

Austin? What are the most underrated

restaurants in Austin?" That is breaking

the script. And that happened to them on

the stage. There was a good five or 10

minutes of boring fluff because they

were on that. And I was like, "Get to

the deeper questions." So, when you're

asking these questions to prepare ahead

of time, what's the most underrated

thing? What's your favorite thing that

would have been better? But he got very

nervous when I started. I challenged him

on depth. So, the next video is them

meeting. M feel free to pause it if

there's anything pertinent or anything

interesting you want to show me. What's

your favorite spot to go to around here

then? Um to be honest, I don't go out

very much. Okay, nice. What do you do? I

Okay, she If someone said that to me,

I'd assume they weren't interested in

me. Exactly right. Okay, so this is

called dreamkilling in conversation.

When someone asks you a question and you

shut it down by saying, "I don't do

that. I don't like that. I don't want

that with nothing else left. Like she

just stopped. I don't to be honest, I

don't really go out that much. And he

said to me afterwards, that's the thing

I'm most nervous about is that she sort

of shut that down. So when you don't

like something, don't dreamkill the

conversation. A better way to answer

that would be, you know what, I do love

to be in my jam jams at home on the

couch watching Netflix, but for the

right occasion, I can get out and party

sometimes. Mhm. That would have been a

better way to answer that question

because it's a little bit playful and

it's not totally dreamkilling his

charisma. And watch this. She's going to

act like she's not interested at all,

but she's actually very attracted to

him. She said that to me.

Work a lot. Okay. Tell him something you

love. Tell him something you love. What

do I love? Um, what do I what do I love?

What I love to do? Uh, work out, be

outside. Um, be active. Yeah, these are

waters. Okay. Yeah. I was like, I don't

know what this is. you would, you know,

if you would like one. Always, always do

a cheers. Cheers, Stephen. Cheers.

Cheers. Cheers. What does that do? Okay.

Cheers. Mhm.

It immediately warmed her up. She was

very, very stiff in this. And I was

like, I said to her in her ear, by the

way, he did not know. Kendrick, poor

Kendrick, he still doesn't know that I

was. He We never told him. I never told

him. Okay. Surprise. Um, he didn't know

that I was in her ear whispering. She

was so stiff. I said, "Tell him what you

love." because I was trying to get her

to show any kind of warmth or excitement

at all because she was so stiff and then

she still she was like, "What do I love?

I work out." I just can't believe that

she actually liked him. Yes. Because

everything about her is giving I can't

wait to leave. This is why we're having

a baby crisis. Is because we're afraid

to show that we like someone. She was

physically attracted to him and into

him. You would never know it. I was the

one saying, "Cheers him. Say what you

love. ask him about his family. And so I

think that this is a crisis because we

think we're being obvious but we are not

being obvious. Yeah. I don't know. I

know. I was just sitting here like this

is a Tuesday which is crazy. How long

have you been in Austin? Two years.

Okay. What? No. That's great,

right? Like like that's why that didn't

work. You just heard it. That's why I

don't want you to do on a date. It's a

conversational dead end. No numbers

questions. Unless you are absolutely

desperate for conversation, you're

willing to ask a follow-up. But it was

like, "How about you?" Horrible. How

long you been in Austin? She went, "Four

years." And then there was a gap. She

had no intent at all of asking a

follow-up question. Right. No. No intent

at all asking a follow-up question. And

he didn't know what to do with it. It's

funny cuz when I watched this, I think

he really likes her because he's leading

the conversation and she's just hitting

the ball back. That's right. But

actually, she was very into it. She just

didn't know how to hit the ball back.

Right. So, if you're going to be in

conversation, you want to be a master

communicator. By the way, there are

drivers and passengers in conversation.

This is what I'm researching right now.

You actually don't want all drivers,

right? Like, you don't want two people

asking all the questions, but you have

to be a good passenger. But, she should

have said two years, but actually, I

feel like Austin has changed so much in

the last two years. Have you noticed

that? Have you been here for a long

time? Like, she should have added one

more thing to not dream kill. Uh, like

three years. Okay. Yeah. I'm from Ohio.

Okay. Like the Akran area. Okay. So, ask

him what do you love about Ohio? Do you

love Do you miss Ohio? No. No, not

really. I mean, I'll go back. My whole

family's there, right? Can I ask how old

you are? Uh, guess. Oh, okay. Guess 30.

Um, 30. Yeah. Why did you say guess 30?

Okay. So, I was giving her a micro win.

So, she remember we're trying to gift

dopamine, serotonin, and testosterone.

Very simplified. It was not going great,

right? I was watching and this is like,

oh my god, we're talking about Acron

Ohio. we're in trouble now, right? So,

he tried with her. So, I knew if she

guessed right, it would like make her

feel good. And I needed her to feel

good. So, she would start driving. She

would start driving the conversation.

So, that's why I made I told I knew his

age. I'll be 31 in like a week. But,

okay. I know you're not supposed to Oh,

wait. Your birth So, you're an Aries?

Yeah, I'm an Aries, too. Me, too.

Moment. They set this up on purpose.

They literally did. Yeah. Wait, so what

day is your birthday? April 1st. Okay.

Oh, I'm March 29th. What are you Are you

serious? Yeah. I think that's my

mother's birthday. What's her body

language giving here? Very closed. Yeah.

And in I never done this before. I

wanted to say to her, "Open up. Laugh

more. Touch your lips. Touch your hair."

There's a lot of things that women can

do to show I am feeling physically

attracted to you. But I was like, like I

wasn't sure she was physically

attracted. So here I am thinking, is she

physically attracted? If she wanted to

show him I'm into you, she could have

touched her hair. She could have touched

her lips. She could have touched the

side of her face. All of those are

gestures of like self-touch that show

interest, but she didn't show any of

that. She also was see how tight, see

how little space she's taking up.

Defeated body language, let's say. So,

very, very closed off. We are going to

be in trouble if we can't show that we

like someone. I also want you to notice

as soon as they had the me too moment,

the thread theory, they both warmed up.

Yeah, they did. Yeah. Like once we get a

me too moment, it's like so much faster

to laugh more. She actually like

literally physically relaxed cuz we I

love dancing and they like always have a

DJ. It's more like clubby. You love

dancing. Say I love dancing. I love

dancing. Yeah, I love throwing ass.

That's what I She was going to let that

go, but I was trying to give her a

thread. I love dancing. And also I'm

trying to get her to say love. So a lot

of the questions I like, what do you

love about Ohio? Do you love dancing?

Like when you use more words like that,

you're actually queuing for that. I

think we talked about last time that

when you use like when they had people

split up into Wall Street and community,

people who were told they were playing

the community game actually acted in a

more communal way. When you use words

like love and excitement and good and

looking forward, you actually create

those feelings. So on a date, you want

to be using the words that you're trying

to create, especially because she

actually felt something. She liked him a

lot. But even beyond a date, right, in a

professional context. Yes. So that then

it would be like uh let's have some wins

like what's good, right? You're trying

to have efficiency and productivity and

trust and collaboration. If you want to

have a collaborative meeting, literally

in your calendar, call it collaboration

meeting. If you want to say hi team,

every time you say team, you're priming

for team. Mhm. Right. So those words

really matter. I'm I'm kind of like like

a early bed kind of person. Yeah. No, I

love that. I I'm not

I like I could like every night or just

like the weekends. I'm extremely

extroverted, so it's like, okay,

absolutely, let's go. And then it's like

I'm so tired. Yeah. Um I'm extroverted

and introverted. Like once I'm out, like

I'm not I'm probably not going home.

Yeah. But then it's like I also love my

like alone time. I'm learning. Okay. So,

do you hear she's using vocal fry? When

you use closed body language, it affects

your voice. So I vocal fry is when

you're like, I love going out and I kind

of love Right. So, she's starting to go

into a little bit of vocal fry here,

which is not attractive. We do not like

vocal fry. Why is she doing that? I

think she's doing it because she's so

closed. It's very hard to get good vocal

power when you're that closed, right?

So, you can hear it here. Wake up and

it's next week. Yeah. Yes. Who did that?

But then it's like I also love my like

alone kind. I'm learning to love it

more. Yeah. We could still go get a

drink if you wanted if you're not busy.

Or go another day after your birthday.

Okay. If you're interested, we can do

that after my birthday. Yeah. Can I ask

you a question on that? He seemed to

bottle it there. He He said, "We can go

get a drink if you want to. If you're

interested or we can go, but I I it's

cuz she didn't immediately be like,

"Yeah, no." I got a little angry after

this date. Uh basically, tell me you'd

love to go out. Just like

No, I would love to go out when I get

back. So, yeah. Yeah. Let's make it

happen.

That's in about 45 days cuz you're going

to Europe. Yeah, for 30 days. Maybe

something sooner. Are you leaving uh

like right on your birthday? No, I'm

leaving on the 21st, but that's in 10

days. And I haven't finished booking the

whole entire trip. Yeah, I know how to

run those numbers. Yeah, she rejected

him. I was real mad after the date

because I asked her, "Are you attracted

to him?" "Yes." "Did you like him?"

"Yes." Did you have fun? Yes. Would you

like to go out with him again? I'm real

busy. I was like, girl, we handed this

guy to you on a silver platter. He's

fun. You're attracted to him, and you're

too busy. Busyiness is not a mark of

success. Busyiness is going to prevent

you from finding your person. And this

is a problem we have. We're so busy with

our self-care rituals and our workouts

and our work that we are missing

opportunities for connection. And

connection is the thing that's going to

make us healthy, happy, and live a long

time. We have to stop saying we're too

busy to connect with good people. Was

she actually too busy? Like, or is she

scared or something? Cuz I just don't

understand that. I literally think she

thought she was too busy. And I was

like, get your priorities straight. And

so this is not even if you're looking

for your person. I also see this with

friendships. Friends where we we put our

friendships last. But actually, if we

were having a hard moment or a health

crisis, who do you want? your support

system and your friends. We have to

start prioritizing the connections in

our life, especially with good people.

And so I it made me angry because I

thought this could be a great person for

you. Do you know what's really wild is

had they met in a village 100 years ago,

they'd been married, married babies,

married. But I guarantee if you hadn't

intervened in this situation, and this

wasn't if you weren't sort of coercing

them to like to hang around with each

other, they'd never see each other

again. Yeah. And I said to after after

the mics were off, I was like, "Go get

him, girl. Go get him." And they did.

And they sat in the bar and they chatted

for the entire hour and they walked out

together. Yeah. They left together. By

the way, let's get some DAO babies.

Let's get some babies. I will be an

officient at the wedding. We can do it

together. I imagine Imagine if they But

it's so I've been thinking about this a

lot lately. We were talking about it as

a team. I was saying one of the issues I

think people have these days is we just

have too many options, too many choices.

Yeah. So, jam choices. Do you know the

jamster though? Yeah. Yeah. You have

two, you have, you know, 20 jams on a

table. Yeah. People will pick none

because there's too many. When there's

only three, people buy more. Yeah. Very

simple. And this is going on in dating

at the moment. Do you know what it was?

A friend of mine, um, we were having a

debate actually in the room over there a

couple of days ago. And they were saying

to me, I just need to meet more guys.

And I'm sat there thinking, your actual

job is networking. Like, you get paid to

meet people. You know more people than

anyone I know. I could say right now I

could say to this person, I need

a chiropractor in Las Vegas and this

person would should go I know the guy.

Oh wow. So I was saying like the issue

might be that you know you have too many

options. Too much jam. Too much jam.

Okay. So too many choices is one. But I

also think like we are so accidentally

we become so obsessed with our morning

routine, our evening routine, our

rituals, our self-care. Selfcare wasn't

even a thing that we talked about when I

was on social media 10 years ago. So

what happens is I see rigidity. There's

a new rigidity happening for both men

and women, but a lot of women too where,

oh, I can't go on that date because I

have to do my morning routine. I can't

do that thing because I have to get my

workout in. And I think that we are

putting our connections in last place.

When actually, if we want to know what's

really good for our health and our

longevity, it's our relationships. We

get the most of the good chemicals of

the good h happy laughs and the

endorphins when with other people and we

keep putting it last. You must meet

people though that they've been on like

a 100 dates and they they tell you that

they just can't find the person and you

go 100 dates like 100 years ago you

wouldn't even know 100 people. Yeah. And

you'd be happily married. Yes. Yes. I

also think our checklists are getting in

the way. Checklist. So many single

people I know they'll tell me they have

a list. They have a list of things that

they really want. I when I met my

husband, I did not have a list, but

there was just a connection there. And

even though we're very different on

paper, it just worked. And so I think

that when people have a checklist, it

actually blinds them to seeing a

connection right in front of their face.

Yeah. And she said to me, I don't know

if this is on camera or not, so

hopefully it's okay if I share it, but

she's like, you know, I just I don't

know if he's as career oriented as I

was. Like that's really important to me.

And I knew that was on her list. On her

list, on her internal list, career is

right up top. Now, they didn't even talk

about career. So, I said, "Well, do you

did you even know what he does?" Well,

no. So, she was judging him based on his

personality. That's it. And it didn't

check the list. And so, what can happen

on these dates is they become very

conversationally transactional. What do

you do? Check. Where are you from? Don't

know. Check. So, you're trying to get

You want kids? Mhm. So this these

checklists I think are creating a lot of

rigidity and then you add in the

busyiness the busyiness trap which is

I'm so successful I'm so busy busy is

not a mark of success. Do you think

there's also an element that we've got

more and more ambivalent with if we the

more and more we date the more it

becomes transactional the more we show

up with without passion or interest or

curiosity.

I I don't know if that's ambivalence. I

think that is

um numbness.

Like people have gotten really

attractive. I don't know if you've

noticed this. Yeah, they have. My

goodness, people are so pretty. Like I'm

on Instagram and I'm like, "How does

everyone look so good?" Like I I didn't

really know anyone with an eight pack

when I went to school. Like did you like

No. No. Cuz that wasn't really a thing.

I'm like old, right? Like I No, no one

had that. There was no social media. So

like people had like, you know, normal

looks. Now people are extremely

attractive. And so I think that the bar

has gone up so that we're all like numb

to how beautiful people are, how funny

people are, how kind people are because

we've been on a thousand dates or the

funniest best thing they ever did is on

their Instagram and we saw it. So

anything else is like h

seen it

like nothing is impressive

anymore. Like I there's two challenges I

recommend for people who are in like

kind of a funk. Like if you're in like a

you're burnt out or you're feeling

lonely or you're like things are not

working, there's two challenges you

could consider. The first one is really

hard and it's the no mirror challenge.

It's you go 30 days without looking in a

mirror. Something really crazy happens

when you cannot see yourself and see how

good you look and see what you look

like. And it's especially powerful for

women. I did it for 30 days. Um and I

went, you have to do all your normal

things. You have to go to meetings. You

have to go out but without looking in a

mirror which means you usually you don't

wear makeup, you know, you don't do your

hair, you kind of just go out as you

are. First you realize that people still

like you even if you don't look perfect.

So no mirror challenge can give you a

lot of confidence and also can show you

where your true relationships, your true

friends are. The second challenge is a

social media or an online blackout

challenge which is if you don't have any

dopamine from your phone, you have to go

get dopamine oxytocin from inerson

relationships. So if you have a blackout

where you cannot go on any social media

or have any kind of interactions on your

phone and you have to go out in person,

you actually do. Like I remember when I

used to travel for work and I'd get to a

city and there was nothing to do. Like

there was no phone in my hotel. I did

not have an iPad. You could read a book

or you could try to go out. And that's

what I would do. I would like get to a

city and I'd be like, "Well, I have

nothing to do in the hotel room." There

was literally nothing to do. I had my

book or I could go to the hotel bar or I

could go walk around the city. And I met

more people in that time of my life than

I do now, even though I'm connected to

more people than ever. I was just

thinking then about something someone

said to me a couple of days ago, which

links to what you're saying. Someone

said to me

that much of the cause of the insult

culture is these young men spend lots of

time playing video games and the video

games gives them the sense of

accomplishment, the sense of building.

It also gives them the like dopamine hit

when you like win a sword or some coins

or something. And so I was just also

thinking about that in the context of

being like a workaholic. Like if I'm

working all day every day on a screen

and I'm constant, which is what I do,

when it comes to like going out and

meeting people and networking, for me

it's like hell. And I'm wondering if

there's a link there. I'm like maybe if

I wasn't on the screen all for like 12

hours a day, I'd have more dopamine left

over to go speak to somebody. Dopamine.

And also the energy flip wouldn't be so

massive. The energy that you're using on

your computer is very much output,

right? like you're you're putting your

energy into your machine to create

content of some kind. When you go out,

it's a feedback. It's back and forth.

Yeah. Go having your brain switch from

one to the next is very jarring. And if

you already get dopamine from your

screen, why what's the motivation for

going out in person? There's only

downside. My computer has never

energized me, but these conversations

always do. Mhm. Yeah. Why would you go

out? You're already having the best

conversations you can do, and you're in

control. And look, I don't know. Just

saying. I think you like control. Do you

think I like control? In what context do

you think I like control in? The reason

I I bring up the control thing is if you

are on social media, you are in complete

control. You decide how often you

scroll. You decide where you click. You

decide when you're done with someone,

you just exit their video. Well, you

know, in conversation, if I don't like

your answer, I can't go off.

I can't turn your volume down. I can't

double click on your like. I actually

have to sit and listen to you. And I

think that, you know, if you're in

control of your conversations and even

like at this table, you are in control.

Like I'm talking a lot, but like you

could interrupt me anytime you want and

I will answer whatever question you ask

me. And so I wonder, don't be mad at me.

If in like real conversation, like I

could ask you anything that I want. Like

right now I have a thousand questions

for you, but I'm trying to not ask them.

Ask me the questions. Well, I asked you

the one about control, but you didn't

really answer. You attached it back to

me.

You don't think you're a control freak?

Probably. Okay, thank you. Yeah,

probably. It's all context dependent

because when you said control freak, I

was like, well, I don't have any control

in that part of my life. That's like a

democracy. But typically in in business,

I think that I'm a control freak. Yeah.

If you ask my team, they'd say, "Yeah,

he's a control freak." So, I would

control freak. Am I? He's laughing.

He was already laughing about it.

Thank you, Jack. You're welcome. So, I'm

not a control freak. This is this is No,

I am. Yeah. So, I think look, I don't

know. But my guess would be why you

don't want to go, you know, out with

people is because you have to give up

control and you you you have to be in a

conversation where you might be asked

something that might be boring or you

don't like it. And like why? Why? I do

struggle. I really struggle with like um

going to like networking events and

stuff. I really struggle with that

stuff. I don't love a networking event,

but I've found that if I have a very

specific goal, yeah, it's better. So,

like for example, if I like I'm

researching my next book. I'm looking

for conversational case studies. So, if

I am going to the event and I'm like,

okay, tonight I'm going to try a new

question and see how it goes. You know,

I'm then I'm like, okay, I have a

purpose. Or if I'm like, I'm going to

practice some new jokes. or if I'm like

I'm looking from a a new you know

business inspiration like that helps me.

So I think no one really likes

networking events but if you have a goal

it makes it a little bit better. Just

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steen10. We're talking about business

there. If I want to communicate more

effectively as a leader in business, are

there any ways that I can become a

little bit

more I guess there's different types of

leaders that struggle with different

things, but how do great leaders

communicate? What do they do? Well, oh,

this is my favorite

topic. As a leader, especially if you're

trying to get meet people and new

people, especially your what do you do

needs to be I am a who

helps. A lot of leaders struggle with

building the right connections and so

they'll be very either like intellectual

with their answer. So like or very

vague. So like I've heard business

leaders say, "Oh, you know, um I run a

tech

company." That that is a dream killer

for a conversation. People don't know

what to do with that. So what you're

better off saying is, "I have a tech

company and we help aspiring cooks." So

this kind of actually pulls us to

another conversation you had in our fake

date scenario. Yeah. If you click on the

first link there with the with the

gentleman whose name is Tim. Tim. Oh

yeah, Tim. I found it really fascinating

watching you help Tim introduce his

profession. I love Tim. So Tim is my

person. Okay. Tim is my person. Like he

he Let me tell you about Tim. So Tim is

a code monkey/software engineer which

we'll watch that video in a second. He

is highly technical. He's very kind. He

loves what he does. And on the date, he

was actually the only person of the four

speed daters who showed warmth the

entire time. And I didn't know. I even

said to Jack, I was like, "I think he's

into her." And I asked him afterwards. I

said, "Are you into her?" And he said,

"No." And I was very impressed with him

because he still showed warmth,

congeniality, and kindness even though

he wasn't physically into her. And I was

like, "This is magic."

I also think that Tim came across as a

little bit nervous and a little bit

awkward and I was like, "Oo, Tim, if we

could just dial up your confidence and

add that to your warmth, you are going

to find your person." And so, I love

Tim. We can watch his interaction. The

first clip of Tim there, I thought was

fascinating. That one there. Okay.

You're going to have a great date.

First, I can I help you out with some

some advice? Yeah. Okay. So, ignore the

cameras completely. Okay. Um, you're

making great eye contact, which I love.

Um, she's probably going to ask you,

"What do you do?" Okay. What is your

answer to that question? I am a code

monkey or a software engineer. Okay,

cool. So, anytime I meet a software

engineer, it's a good answer, but it's a

conversational dead end. Yeah. Because

unless I'm a software engineer, I don't

know what to say. So, I'm like, so what

I want you to do is actually create a

hook. So, you're going to say, um, so

what kind of coding do you do? Uh, I do

a lot of backend stuff. That's probably

too much. Nope. Don't even know what

that is. You have to think of a hook to

give me so that you don't have this.

What do you do? Software engineer. What

do you do? Teacher, cuz we have to have

a We can't You can't say I'm a software

engineer. Do you like art? We can't do

that, right? How long have you been

doing it? How about that? I've been

doing it for five to six years and been

loving my team so far. So Oh, do you

lead a team? Uh, I hope to one day, but

not right now. But you love your team.

Okay. So I think that that could be your