I was in Afghanistan in 2014 as a Navy

SEAL we're in the middle of this

gunfight and a grenade came over the

wall and it

detonated and I'm waiting to either be

shot by the enemy or going to bleed to

death and all that was running through

my head was and that's the way I think

people should look at their lives so

interesting cuz I've never actually

heard someone give that kind of advice

before Mr bullan is a former Navy SEAL

turned Master Storyteller and content

creator who uses his Battlefield

experiences and personal failures to

inspire educate and help people overcome

challenges to achieve their goals my

family were very successful people with

pullit Sur prises PhD and then there's

me getting into street fights and about

to get expelled but it took becoming a

colossal failure to realize if you want

to fix this you have start with saying

it's my fault and then do something

about it but then fear becomes the thing

keeping people from doing it and it's

the very select number of people in this

life say I'm going to still do that

thing that scares the out of me that

have the best and most fulfilling life

and so I decided to become a Navy SE

because it's was only a really small

percent that make it through the ruing

mentally torturing training and what's

the similarities that you noticed

between the people that made it two

words it's but then I realized the

reality of the job you kill people and I

had really leaned into being as like

Alpha as I possibly could be but there

were just some things that I did and I

just I struggled so so bad I had to face

My Demons what have you learned about

dealing with demons if you begin to have

those thoughts the only way I have found

to sort of cope with them is

this has always blown my mind a little

bit 53% of you that listen to the show

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continue to do what we do thank you so

much John yes there are clues in your

early context that suggest you might

have walked the path that you've walked

in your life but there's also clues that

suggest you absolutely would never have

done what you've done yeah so taking me

back to that early context yeah what do

I need to know about that environment

the influences of that environment to

understand how you ended up where you

are today I I think it all starts with

you know the family I was born into

where like very successful academic

people so I was born in a in a town

called Quincy Massachusetts it's just

south of Boston Mass and you know my my

mother father and two sisters are like

Brilliant Minds in like the academic

sense of the word just like brilliant uh

you know my sister one of my sisters uh

has gone on to win two pullit Sur prises

my dad's won a pullitzer prize my this

not even flex but to give you a sense of

the people in my life my other sister

like has a PHD and she like worked out

of a Harvard lab my my mom is a

professional writer and then there's me

when I was growing up I uh I I could

have done well in school you know but I

didn't want to it was sort of like my my

form of rebellion was being a bad

student willfully and I would like go

out and party with my friends and just

was like trying to be sort of like a bad

kid in a way and also like the town I

grew up in was sort of a it was not a

place where academics really thrived

it's like a really working class like

hard and tough place I mean quin's

becoming much much nicer but it was a

little bit of a tough place and I sort

of wanted to be like an edgy like tough

guy and so I'd like get into street

fights and get my ass kicked and like

I'd like stay out drinking with my

friends but what it did is it set me up

for like colossal failure uh by the time

I got to college I got into college

because my mom the professional writer

wrote my college essay and my grades

were horrible in high school in fact so

bad that when I sent off my application

the the school got in touch with me and

they were like hey your grades are not

really what we're looking for but boy

that essay was so beautiful we're going

to give you a chance and so I get into

college I go to the University of

Massachusetts out in western Mass it's

like where a lot of kids where I was

growing up that's where I went to school

but it's a big party school and I just

immediately bombed first semester like I

I got a 1.016 GPA which it should have

been like a zero I basically didn't go

to class I uh I was involved in this

this Riot so at some point the uh our

football team which was a team that no

one cared about even the people who went

to the school we didn't care about it no

offense to the Minute Men they're very

good now but at the time in 2006 they

weren't they made it to like this

conference game or something this is

like not big time D1 this is like D1 daa

so like very high level football but not

going to be on TV or anything and the

the college the student body again they

don't really care about the football

team but for some reason when they lost

this game it just like instilled this

need to Riot on campus and it was like

concentrated in this one area of Campus

where I happened to live and I like went

out there and I was like breaking

windows and being this horrible kid and

the security cameras everywhere

recording you and it got to the point

where at the end of the semester there

was like this Witch Hunt to to find the

people that have been involved in this

Riot and there was like the the website

had post the college Police website had

posted all these images of just faces of

people in the crowd that were a part of

it and anybody could anonymously name

people if they saw them and it was like

everybody got expelled and I found

pictures of me and I just got my grades

back 1.016 and at the same time I've

been telling my brilliant parents yeah

I'm doing great in school things are

going really well getting good grades

and I had to tell them like actually

it's the opposite and I'm probably going

to get expelled if I don't withdraw so

my dad comes out to the school and he

like sits down with the dean who also

says John has all these violations of

living in the dorm like noise complaints

and being a jerk that we're going to

kick him out of the dorms even if he

stays at the school he has to live live

off campus and my my mom and dad are

like you're coming home uh we're done

with this like you're an adult and you

can either like live at home and go to

school or get a job but like you're

going to be an adult and so I come home

what age I was 18 18 so I come home and

I uh I was living in my mom's basement

in quiny and I remember the first couple

of weeks I was home I I actually felt

mad at my parents like how dare they

make me withdraw from the school even

though there's all this information that

like it's completely my fault but I I

had like an epiphany when I was

literally in my mom's basement when I

sort of realized like oh this is my

fault like I have created like a habit

pattern and a way of thinking that's put

me in my mom's basement with no

Direction like I've been gifted all

these opportunities that I've squandered

and something sort of changed in my head

where it was like I don't want to be a

screw-up I don't want to be that I'm

looking at my my family members as being

so successful and I just was like I

can't be that I'm suddenly becoming

self-aware that that's the path I'm on

I'm going to be the guy that like

floundered everything and and didn't

amount to anything and so I just made it

simple I was like I'm just going to like

go to a local school get good grades and

like graduate from college that's going

to be my focus for now and I did that I

went to a local school I got my grades

up I actually transferred back to the

school that I withdrew from to finish

out my my couple of years in

college but the it was like a drug like

having a goal that I was working towards

like doing something that was worth my

time and like studying I I I was like

struggling with school but I I I worked

so hard I was in the library all the

time like feeling like getting to feel

what it feels like to be working towards

a goal and achieving it was like really

addictive for me and so by the time I

was like in my last year in college I

actually ironically had no clue what I

would do Post College it was sort of

like well the goal was just to graduate

college I don't really have a clue

what's next and and I I I thought about

briefly becoming a lawyer or something I

because I was studying philosophy in

English because I like those two

subjects and they sort of fit the mold

but I had always sort of had this draw

this calling to to serve in the military

because my uh just some some friends of

mine in high school went off to serve uh

in in the military in 2006 like they

went to Iraq and

Afghanistan but I but I wanted to do

something really hard in the military

because I needed like a big goal you

know and it like graduating college was

this goal that I had achieved

and I was like I want to do something

hard in the military and that's when I

got turned on to the SEAL Teams and the

cool thing about the Navy SEAL Teams is

virtually anybody can apply to be a seal

uh you know you have to like have the

right physical fitness you have to be a

citizen there's a few things but

basically anybody can try out but it's

only those who s who survive the

training that become seals and it's a

really small percentage of people and it

just really was the thing that was like

wait a minute if I do that if I go

through like this this baptism of going

through this rigorous training I'll

become a guy that will no longer be

viewed as like the the screw-up in high

school who sort of got it together with

college I'll be able to reinvent myself

I'll be able to to serve in the military

which is something I I felt the calling

to do it's a career that I can kind of

progress into and it's a big freaking

challenge that's going to require a

whole bunch of training and prep before

I get to go and so I kind of just

shifted my goal from graduate college to

become a Navy SEAL and everything fell

in line and then naturally after that I

became a YouTuber which is an even

longer story but basically I yeah became

a seal and then I got hurt medically

retired and then I basically posted

something online that went viral and I

love telling stories as you can see from

this long intro uh and I just kept

telling stories and now I'm here so but

it started with like setting a goal and

achieving it and it's which sounds so

basic but I think a lot of people go

through life just sort of doing stuff

because because they were told to or

they just sort of fell into it I found

like setting a goal that's consciously

something you care about for whatever

reason and working hard to achieve it it

like organizes your whole life and so my

life starting with coming home from from

college and being in the basement has

been a series of set a goal and shoot

for that goal and that's all that

matters it's interesting because even

before that there was something that

seemed to happen to you in that basement

which I consider to be the starting

place which is awareness yeah this like

self-awareness and with that

self-awareness came responsibility you

said actually I need to stop blaming my

Mom and Dad yeah there I have a role to

play in this yeah and that's really

really hard for I think for everybody to

be truly aware of how you might be

contributing to the circumstances of

your own life it's a harsh truth when

you realize it's your fault or or a big

part of it is your fault but that's what

self-awareness is like taking

responsibility for the good and the bad

and what's your relationship been like

with responsibility and like what's your

view on the importance of that broadly I

would say that when I was you know pre-

basement moment

I was definitely in the mindset of

playing the victim and if something bad

happened it was somebody else's fault

and not taking responsibility for

anything I was I was the guy that would

come home from school and I'd tell my

mom like you wouldn't believe it we had

a test today and Joey got a 50 I got a

65 but Joey got a 50 it's like you're

sort of like that's the way you approach

it versus like I failed the test um but

when I sort of decided I would graduate

college and organize my life around that

and then become a seal I realized that

it's not enough to simply just say I'm

going to do this thing like you need to

own like the entire process and like for

example in uh in Seal training there

were a couple moments where like I

myself failed miserably catastrophically

at like tests and opportunities to to be

a leader and I just like squandered it

in in in a way so the way SEAL training

works is it's very reputational like as

you go along uh in training you know

it's like the closer you get to

graduation the the closer you get to

being a real seal and so your

instructors those are active duty seals

and they're no longer viewing you

towards the end of training as being

just some like oh candidate now it's

like you could be my teammate there's

not too many of us and so it changes

from you aren't going to make it to you

better do a good job because I might

need your help you know down the line

and I remember in the final part of

training there's this confidence

exercise where they basically expose

your class to uh tiar guests which is

something that's pretty standard in the

military uh and the only thing they say

is like this is a like it's all about

mentality here it's a confidence booster

it's going to suck it's going to make

you want to feel like you're you're

you're dying from this gas and it's like

a long exposure and they they they set

you up in this like Square you're all

just standing you're kneeling

shoulder-to-shoulder if you will out in

this open field on San Clemente Island

in in in in California and all the

instructors have their gas mess on and

they have these pool sticks like that

you would swap like trash out of a pool

but at the end they have the Cs grenade

canisters and they're like all right

they put their mask on they they fire

off these CS grenades this big white

smoke comes out and they hand they hold

out the pole and you just you get

covered in CS gas and the whole all you

have to do is not run just stay here and

take it that's the whole point and Ian

it was like a figh ORF flight Instinct

completely it was like before I and it

was instant it wasn't like uh oh this is

really bad what am I going to do what am

I going to do it was like

instantaneously I ran I had to get

tackled by one of the instructors

because I was just out I wasn't even

thinking it was like and nobody else ran

this is the end of training and so

afterwards it's like I was brought into

the the amphitheater there's this little

theater where they would teach us

classes about ordinance and whatever and

they were like Allan stand up and all my

peers know I did this all the

instructors know I did this and he just

goes the main instructor he's like Allan

you're a [ __ ] [ __ ] sit down

he goes you're a [ __ ] [ __ ] and I

never want to serve with you and neither

and neither should your classmates sit

down and it was it and I had to from

that point on for the rest of training

wear uh these like it's almost like a

bikini over my shorts and it was like

the worst moment ever because i' I've

made it so far into training but I knew

and also by the way at this point we

weren't even home I wasn't able to go

home see my wife we're out at this

island for a month you don't you work

seven days a week you're you are in

training until you're done and the only

choice was like own the fact that you

did that don't make excuses for it like

let this show people my actual strength

which seems funny because I did the

thing I'm not supposed to do but instead

of like running from it literally own it

take responsibility for what you did and

show people that you know what I'm

prepared to show up for work every day

wearing these [ __ ] Trunks and and be

looked at as a lesser than to

demonstrate that I'm not there's some

something really important in that

that's really um really also critical to

business but just really critical to

anyone that's professional or in a

relationship which is if you make a

mistake you get the second opportunity

which is how you respond to the mistake

you made and in fact so many times in

business you know when I was running a

marketing business we'd have clients and

we might drop the ball in some way but

we can actually make the relationship

stronger than it was before the mistake

by how we responded so making a quick

phone call apologizing taking

responsibility yeah I mean I think that

there definitely were some people that

did carry that sort of like stigma into

the teams because right after we

finished this we kind of went into the

SEAL Teams but I I do think that there

was definitely some people that and I'm

not even tooting my own horn I really

think this happened that as a result of

that moment knew they could like trust

that I was prepared to sort of like I'm

going to take responsibility for me I'm

going to do what I'm supposed to do I'm

going to be the best teammate I can be

even at my lowest you're still going to

get the best version of me and that

doesn't mean I think I'm better than

anybody else it just means I'm an adult

and I think that's that's a big part of

being an adult is responsibility is

ultimately owning those mistakes and

sometimes your mistakes are painful and

public and awful and that's the most

important time to own them and like you

said like that's your opportunity in

some ways not just to rectify the

mistake but to become a stronger better

version of yourself and I think that my

mistake in college was a series of

mistakes my first semester of screwing

it up and getting sent back home but it

was only when I recognized that it was

my fault and I had to own that that I

was able to graduate college and try to

become a Navy SEAL and then in the

process like have the the Cs grenade

happen but in some ways that made me a

better seal you know so I think that

like in Failure comes the best

opportunity for Success which is

something that I certainly didn't coin

but it's the truth what is the Navy

Seals because you know around the world

I think people are aware of the term

Navy Seals but we don't actually know

fully what it is yeah so um every branch

of I think basically every military in

the world this is a a broad

generalization but it's it's it's

usually the case that virtually every

branch of every military has some form

of specialized unit that carries out

Special Operations it's the stuff that

you know the Call of Duty video games

and Modern Warfare those are based on

like the idea of specialized combat

units that that go out and do these kind

of difficult and high stakes missions

and so in in the US you have the Army

the Navy the Marine Corps the Coast

Guard and the Air Force and each of them

have like their like respective Special

Operations divisions like you have uh

marine Special Operations and Marines

you have the PJs the par rescue jumpers

and the Air Force there there's multiple

but of all the Special Operations units

in America of all the different branches

you could make the case that the most

and I'm get some Flack from people that

disagree with me the most let's say

well-known and potentially

most skilled and I say that carefully

because of course there are other there

are other groups like The Green braids

who are incredible at certain things but

the the most skilled at multiple

disciplines is very likely the Navy SEAL

Teams and it's because the the acronym

seal stands for Sea Air land so SE and a

the idea is even though it's under the

Navy which is sort of like Maritime and

and water the reality is that the SEAL

Teams are a special operations group

that can insert into virtually any any

environment sea air or land they can

also use multiple insertion platforms

whether it's diving jumping going in on

land it's like a highly vers

Special Operations group whereas a lot

of the other Special Operations groups

not just in the United States but

internationally are kind of specialized

in certain geographies like you have

Mountain Warfare Specialists you have

like the Dutch have this incredible uh

diving unit uh but the seals are like we

do everything and they also sort of came

into prominence they they started in the

60s under JFK they really came into

prominence post 911 because they were

being sent out into the Middle East

which is you know it's a landlock place

but this Navy Special Operations unit

was being very successful carrying out

you know kinetic operations all across

the Middle East so it's like a a very

famous uh Jack of all trade Special

Operations group that especially after

the bin Laden raid as well that sort of

made them celebrities but even before

that they were very well known as like

the Jack of all trade Special Operations

group and how long is training how long

does it take to to get through training

and pass the other end broadly speaking

I would say it takes about two years uh

but realistically it takes a little bit

longer so you have um there's two ways

to become a seal you either go in as an

enlisted person so there's the enlisted

component of the military which is

somebody basically without a college

degree who just like raises their hand

and just serves like that's like the

grunts of the world those are the

enlisted Community uh and then you have

the officer side just somebody who at a

minimum needs to have like a college

degree to apply you go to like Officer

school and in the SEAL Teams there's

like a tiny tiny number of Officer seals

and a massive number of enlisted seals

but there are two very different

Pathways into training if you go the

officer route it's practically like a

political appointment just to get an

opportunity like it's so so difficult to

even get a chance to try out that what

you get and it's because there's just

like a handful of spots available that's

that's really all it was so you have all

these people on the enlisted side who

actually have college degrees and could

easily like become an officer in the

military who let's say have other

opportunities that they could pursue

with their college degree but they want

to be a seal you have this big number of

people that are electing to go be

enlisted to try out to be seals and

that's important because it makes the

enlisted side super competitive you have

like these professional athletes and you

have like Olympians and you have like

the best college athletes and you have

MMA fighters and wrestlers and then like

the random people like me who have no

resume and you all just show up for the

class in San Diego that technically is

six months long but there's like before

you've even jooin the Navy you need to

basically compete for a spot to even

have a chance to to try out and there's

a whole application process before

you've joined the Navy that can take

years and then let's say you get your

chance as an enlisted person they're

like okay you're going to get a chance

to go well first you got to go to boot

camp that's two months in Chicago and

technically you can fail out of it but

really you won't it's sort of like a

suck it up and get through it but then

at the end of boot camp at least when I

went through you go to this other school

which is like a prep school it's another

two months in Chicago mind you you

haven't even started training yet this

is like potentially a year of pre- Navy

and now you're 4 months in to like

you're in the Navy but you're not really

in Seal training yet you go to this prep

school where you like learn how to swim

and run you you already know how to do

these things but professional coaches

work with you the Navy invests a lot of

money and getting you really

strengthened up and mentally

strengthened because following the prep

school you go to San Diego where you go

through what's regarded as like the

hardest part of SEAL training which is

uh it's called buds Buds and it stands

for basic underwater demolition seal

school and it's basically imagine

whatever you think of as boot camp like

military boot camp make it not two

months long but 6 months long because

most boot camps are about two and make

it like a thousand times more difficult

it's really the same Concepts it's like

intense grueling physical emotional and

mental like torture for six months and

that's the part where everybody fails

out and drops out that's like the if you

made a movie about SEAL training you'd

really only focus on the six months of

buds training and in fact you'd only

focus on the first two months because

that's the most physically challenging

and then once you finish that you go to

Advanced Training you're still not a

seal yet it's another six months of like

learning how to actually do the job so

buds is like can you handle it Advanced

Training or seal qualification training

is I'm going to teach you how to shoot a

gun with surgical Precision I'm going to

teach you how to jump out of a plane I'm

going to teach you how to like use this

technology because you need to know how

to do the job so learn the job and then

after that you'll go to like or we did

anyways I don't know if they do this now

you go to like a language school for a

month or you'll go to like a medical

school or some sort of school to give

you additional qualifications and then

you go to your team and so all told you

have about two years from I want to be a

Navy SEAL to I am now a Navy Seal two

years is usually the mark and what's the

similarities that you noticed between

the people that made it and didn't the

thing that stands out honestly and this

is what is pretty universally true

although there's some outliers is the

folks who show up to buds the candidates

who show up to buds that have like an

incredible resume there was a guy that

showed up to training who literally

played for the Arizona Diamondbacks he's

like 6'5 looks just like a god and he's

so humble like he's this big strong

professional baseball player who I I

actually have a memory specifically of

playing with his character in a video

game and like there's there's other

people who who are like professional

football players and all that and he

washed out so quick and a lot of the

other guys with with big resumés like

the sports and and big accomplishments

they typically wash out really really

quickly and it's not because they lack

the physical to do it they don't they

definitely don't it's that if you this

is generalizing because this is not true

of everybody but let's take the guy who

played for the Diamondbacks so this

person is used to being generally

speaking the very best person at what

they do their whole lives and it's not

because there's anything wrong with them

it's just sort of a truth that's how you

became a professional baseball player

that's how it works in buds your

instructors don't [ __ ] care about who

you were and it's like a point they make

they don't care at all about what you've

done before in fact if they even suspect

that you think you're special because

you have some bullet point on your

resume like playing for the Diamondbacks

they will torture you and and see if you

really got it they will single you out

and specifically make you feel terrible

and and tell your class to like look at

this guy he can't even do push-ups you

play for the Diamondbacks you can't even

do push-ups even though the guy's doing

push-ups just fine but he's like look

that doesn't even count that doesn't

count do another one get in the water do

this do that it's it's it's a mind game

but the guy's like me who I went to Buds

and I'm like I literally am a joke

compared to the people that are here I

wasn't in great shape relative to my

peers I'm certainly not a professional

athlete the only thing on my resume is

well I nearly flunked out of college but

then managed to graduate college that is

the extent of my resume I played a

little baseball in high school and so

for me I have very little to lose like

either I'll make it and that'll be

amazing and I'll get to do the thing I

want to do or I won't and people will

say that's about right the folks that go

in that have the resumes on on some

level they expect to be really good even

if they're humble and everybody in their

personal lives also expects them to make

it through because who wouldn't he

played for the Diamondbacks expectation

B it's brutal and and the course is too

long to Simply gut your way through it

the the level of physical discomfort

that you experience in buds is so

unbelievably high that it's not you got

to want to be here that's the way they

say it you got to want to be here if you

want to make it through it's you need to

have something to hold on to in your

brain that overrides the discomfort and

it can't be oh I need to make everybody

else happy I need to live up to

expectations maybe that's strong enough

for you for most people it's not like

when you are at like your absolute

lowest like what do you hold on to and

it's for people like me it was like I

have to prove myself to the like to

myself I want to prove to myself that I

can do this hard thing like it was not

even about serving in the military it

was accomplishing this goal because I've

set my mind to it and I want to I want

to believe that I'm the guy that can set

goals that are hard and Achieve them and

so in in my worst moments I would go to

that place where I'm like this is worth

it to me but for other guys it's not and

so so at the end when you graduate you

look around and it's like a rag tag

group of like short sort of weird

looking guys that don't in any way

embody like what you would think of as

like I mean some guys do some guys are

unbelievable studs but it's like a rag

tag group of guys that just didn't quit

and a lot of it is because they had some

sort of of chip on their shoulder that

internally drove them and it allowed

them to persevere when things got so bad

cuz things get so bad in buds if I were

to meet the guy in his mother's basement

and then meet the guy who qualified from

the Seals training yeah in terms of

their mentality like their psychology

how would they be different what is it

that what evidence does the guy that

graduated from Seal training have that

the other guy doesn't have what is that

what's the difference I mean not just to

like shamelessly cycle back to this idea

of responsibility but I'm going to do

that before when I first got to the

basement I've just arrived I was really

not even able to see what a mess I had

made of my life it wasn't like I knew I

had screwed up and was blaming other

people it was more like my default

setting was this is somebody else's

fault somebody did this to me like I

actively remember being furious with my

mom and dad for making me withdraw from

college when I literally was about to

get expelled I had a terrible GPA I

couldn't afford to live in the in the

dorms I had I had shown no there was no

evidence to suggest I would succeed in

college it wasn't until I was like home

in the basement in the sort of like

living in my mom's basement with no

direction that I I just sort of

naturally happened I was like wait a

minute it's you it's not them it's you

and it seems so obvious now but it took

falling to the bottom and also by the

way kudos to my mom cuz she single mom

she didn't give an f she was not like

don't worry you'll figure it out she was

like no you're going to get a job or

you're going to move out or whatever and

you're also going to pay rent while

you're here and uh that's it like this

is your fault and at first I'm mad but

it it's sort of like it became this

arduous thing I had to overcome so it

was like no self-awareness none and

genuinely blaming the world for my

problems to like probably if anything an

extreme on the other side where like if

you have already noticed I'm like

talking about the Cs gas thing that I

mentioned to you earlier mhm that's

something that if that happened to other

people I don't know if they' talk about

it on such a public platform especially

just in our in the seal Community like

reputation is such a big thing that even

talking about things that other people

know about but that cast you in sort of

a bad light reputationally I think

people would stay away from saying that

you know like but for me I view it as a

strength to highlight not only the

things that I'm good at but the things

that I've made a mess of and screwed up

up because it shows other people that

I'm secure so it's like Ultra self-aware

and secure in my image the opposite as

the basement kid and it took basically

falling to the bottom being home no no

new opportunities in front of me other

people are off at College succeeding and

here I am in my mom's basement for it to

sink in that like if you want to fix

this you have to start with saying it's

my fault and then do something about it

and it worked this idea of Rock Bottom

it's so interesting and it sounds um

sounds pretty tragic that sometimes

people do need to go to the bottom on

their own yeah to realize that as the

quote says the pain of staying the same

is greater than the pain of making a

change never heard that that's like 18

years old and I was in just dropped out

of University and I saw someone on

YouTube say the pain of um change

happens when the pain of staying the

same becomes greater than the pain of

making a change and this kind of speaks

to why some people sometimes when you

listen to their stories it wasn't until

they hit the basement that they were

able to look themselves in the mirror

and then take actions in the right

direction but also sometimes when you

try and help someone and you prop them

up like if your mother had gone listen

uh here's some money and you know here's

some uh you don't have to pay rent right

she' be propping you up a little bit and

keep away yeah I'm I'm trying to think

about the kid that's listening to this

right now that can relate yeah well the

person in their life they they might be

in a job or whatever that can relate to

knowing that there's something quite not

quite right in their life maybe they

maybe they're at a point where they can

start to look themselves in the room and

take

responsibility but do they do they have

to go to Rock Bottom to start to change

their life well I think that part of the

reason or I should say this is more of a

general statement that kind of answers

this um I in in a way was fortunate

because when I hit rock bottom I I am a

person that does not have what is it

called paralysis by analysis I'm sort of

an impulsive person for better or worse

and so for me it's like once I hit that

rock bottom it wasn't hard for me to

sort of quickly find a good North Star

which the first one was College I'm I'm

goingon to do college right M and then

when I was nearing the end of college by

this point I've sort of rided the ship

at this point but I wanted a new goal it

was like oh SEAL training that checks

some boxes it's like I want to serve

check like it's a super hard goal check

I'll have to work for it like it it

offers me a chance at reinvention and

rebirth check okay good like I jumped to

that that's what I do I think there are

plenty of people and I'm this is my

guess I don't know if it's true who

maybe have already hit rock bottom and

they want to make a change they know

it's their fault or whatever situation

that they they know they've contributed

to it but they don't know what to do

next and there's so many choices think

about it if you're at Rock Bottom in

some ways you have every choice in the

world to make and I think that one of

the things that I certainly preach when

I talk about this at all which I guess

in situations like this is you don't

need like a perfect idea you just need

something that checks enough boxes for

you to be worth doing so for me it was

like okay I'm in my mom's basement I've

done this to myself I am the reason I'm

not at school I'm the reason that like

my parents are embarrassed about their

son it's my fault what do I need to do

okay well I should I should graduate

school because that that demonstrates

that what happened at UMass is is

fixable I I can graduate school I can do

it I'm not dumb I can do that okay fine

got to go to school that was it it's

like it checks a box so do it I think it

was Jo will that said to

me his friend had called him and was

going through a difficult time in his

life divorce lost his wife lost his job

Etc and joer said something words to the

effective when you're lost in like a

military context whatever you need to

start moving yes it doesn't necessarily

matter which direction you move in but

you need to start moving in a direction

and that was I was thinking about that

as you said about this idea of like

paralysis by analysis people they might

be at rock bottom but they just don't

know what to do so they just sat in the

same situation certainty in that context

is sometimes better for people than the

uncertainty of what happens if I you

know what if it's the wrong

yeah I mean and also you got to figure

it's sort of like a self perpetuating

problem too where if you let's say

you've hit rock bottom even if you don't

know it and you're like oh I want to fix

my life I want to do something with my

life let's say the kind of generic rock

bottom well let's say you get paralysis

by analysis and and you're not able to

sort of like pick a path and you go

nowhere that only reinforces the idea

that you're oh you screwed up again MH

but you hav't there's just too many

choices and you're allowing Too Many

Factors to be at play here Joo however

he said it is dead on and there's

another way that's talked about in the

military which is uh an 80% solution now

is oftentimes better than a 100%

solution tomorrow and it's all about

like speed over certainty in the

military it applies a lot of times but

that's the way I think people should

generally not always but generally look

at their lives if they haven't quite

built anything yet whether whether

they're at rock bottom or just starting

out like they're young people and they

or whatever age you're at if you just if

you feel like you need to to make a

change like you said the the the pain of

staying the same is is greater than

making a change if you're at that point

you kind of know it think about what

what matters to you whatever it is like

I like to equate it to when like you're

in the shower by yourself and you're

just having unfiltered true thoughts

like ask yourself what do you really

care about like honest to God like

forget what society says you should care

about let's say you really just want to

be famous and that's that's that's the

actual core and you don't even know why

but that's what you want well guess what

listen to that part of you it's not vain

it's a thing that matters to you

similarly if you if you're like I want

to be just Rich great if that's a real

motivation for you like at your core in

the shower it's just you if that's

really what drives you great those are

boxes that must be checked for something

to be worth doing so it's like have your

shower thoughts and be real with

yourself like what do you really

actually care about not what society

says not what you want your family none

of that stuff for me honestly the the

reason the sealed thing really paid I

wanted to Do It ultimately is I wanted

people to say that's John Allen the Navy

SEAL because to me it was like I had

been the black sheep in my family

because of me I had discovered this but

it's like oh his sisters have done this

oh his dad's done this his mom's done

this and then there's John I wanted

something that sort of overrode the

mediocrity and failure and I felt like

what better thing what more honorable

thing and also I wanted to serve that's

another check it's a big goal that's

difficult that's a check but ultimately

it was like I want people to know that I

became a Navy SEAL that mattered to me

and you know what it's it flies in the

face of what Navy SEAL instructors tell

you which is you don't want you

shouldn't do this because you want to be

a Navy SEAL you should do it because you

want to serve the country and like

that's true and what else you going to

tell your students yeah but if you

really want to be real about it you got

to find your real motivation and that

that box must be checked must be checked

yeah so i i p on the must be checked

because once you become the Navy SEAL

yeah and everyone's saying that's John

Allen the Navy

SEAL does your motivation disappear or

does it become something else and it's

really it's I think it's really honest

but also quite unorthodox advice to say

listen if you if you're in the shower

and you're going I just want to be rich

so I can prove these people wrong or

want to be famous prove these people

wrong um it's an orthodox advice to say

to follow that yeah but I have to

say I just completely agree yeah I agree

because sometimes you have to have a

hypothesis

fail you or some kind of idea fail you

for you to scratch the itch and that's

why I was focusing on this idea of

ticking the Box yeah it's going to stay

there yes it is like I don't know if you

can go to therapy or do IAS or something

to get rid of that thing but for me

until you pursue it and have it fail you

or succeed yep it's going to stay there

yeah I mean that ultimately exactly what

you said if that box goes unchecked you

might in your life eventually convince

yourself that you never needed check to

check that box but at some point at some

point in your life when it becomes too

late or you're about to die on your

deathbed you will have regret and I I

can actually speak to a specific

instance in my life which I had checked

a box by this point but I had one that I

hadn't checked I was I was in

Afghanistan in 2014 and we were in this

Alleyway and a grenade came over the

wall and it detonated next to a whole

bunch of us and I nearly bled to death

and I have this moment where I I can't

pull the tourniquets off of my kit that

are rubber banded to my chest for quick

access to stop the bleeding but I was so

weak and in like losing my vision we're

in the middle of this gunfight I

couldn't get him off and I realized as

I'm sitting in this Alleyway in the

middle of this like horrible place in

Afghanistan like like the town was very

kinetic and dangerous and I'm waiting to

either be shot by the enemy who we know

is on the other side of the wall that

could be coming around or I'm going to

bleed to death or there RPGs being fired

blindly in our Direction it's like I'm

about to die 100% I'm actively bleeding

out or I'm going to be shot and all that

was running through my head there was a

couple thoughts there was one that was

kind of funny now which was I was like

hm I wonder if my obituary will say

Jonathan Allen killed an action or John

Allen killed an action so that was going

through my head but I also in addition

to that I had this really acute sadness

that I hadn't started a family yet I

didn't have kids I was married we've

been married for several years and and

my wife and I had s we'd sort of talk

about having kids before that deployment

but we were like oh we'll have time and

I'm sitting there in this alley bleeding

to death or expecting to be shot to

death I'm I'm at the end of my life and

it was like holy [ __ ] I wish I had a

child yes that's horrible for the kid

they lost their dad but like that was a

box for me I wanted a family what was

the first thing I did when I survived

this and got home we started a family

you know so it's like that's sort of an

extreme example but I I do really

believe that a lot of people have boxes

that are going to go unchecked but to

your point also just try to do it and

fail and believe it or not you actually

check the box yeah yeah yeah that's true

that's actually really really true yeah

and

yeah it's so interesting that that um

because I've never actually heard

someone give that kind of advice before

what people say is like find your why

and they often are quite judgmental

about what's motivating you sure so the

only like accepted motivation is

something like I want to serve my

country or I want change the world but

actually most of us are either like

driven or dragged as I say which it

could be yeah like driven is okay you're

very conscious of what's driving you and

you're in control but then being dragged

is the insecurity it's the shame it's

that I you know my siblings are better

than me and I want to say [ __ ] you to my

parents whatever it might be um very

very very interesting it's also even

more interesting that you ended up where

you are today so you you get medically

discharged from the military after the

Afghanistan it was not immediately after

but basically between that and some

mental issues I was having I was pushed

to see a psychologist this is like years

after so 2014 that injury happens I

survive obviously uh and I ended up

getting surgery to sort of like my

shoulder was banged up and I I got fixed

up enough to deploy again um but I was

just not fit to serve physically I was

really struggling um to keep up I had

some issues with my shoulders and my

knees I've strap all on my leg uh but

ultimately I I was recommended to a pych

in the military because they're like

dude you you you are not like a s person

things are not going well for you like

close friends of mine just sort of said

I don't think this is this is working

out and I was very angry I I had like

now I can say it it's like I had very

stereotypical or whatever you want to

call it PTSD like I had not dealt with

the near-death experience in Afghanistan

and sort of how that went and so I I

ended up going for a medical retirement

which was driven in part by the physical

injuries but also by like mentally I

wasn't there so I get I get medically

retired uh in at the end of 2017

and you know it's I never really had a

plan you know it's like I I knew I was

going to get medically retired which

just means like you're going to get out

and there's G to be like this amount of

money you get paid you it's a retirement

it's it's not really enough to to live

on realistically you're going to have to

have a job and uh you know I I I

basically I got out at the end of 2017

and I went on LinkedIn and I'm like I

guess that's where you get job because

that's what I think people do and I was

like on LinkedIn and I wound up randomly

connecting with this guy named Jordan

celik who is he was living in New York

at the time he's this former investment

banker who had just so happened at the

time that I was on LinkedIn doing this

like kind of weird job search that his

best friend was a transitioning fighter

pilot like he was leaving the military

going to the private sector was

struggling with the transition which is

very common in the military making that

jump to the civilian world and Jordan

who's like this very entrepreneurial guy

he was trying to prove to his friend his

friend's name was Austin that like you

must be alone like you're so successful

being a fighter pilot like you're going

to find a job and he was like he was

doing this exercise where he was

reaching out to like random veterans on

LinkedIn and being like hey what are you

doing like with your transition to the

civilian world to prove to Austin that

like you're basically complaining and

you can go find a job you're not a but

he found like one nobody really got back

to him because they didn't know who he

was but I got back to him and I'm like

actually you know what I just got

medically retired I have no idea what

I'm going to do I got kids I'm stressed

I don't know didn't know this guy uh and

so Jordan quickly went from trying to

prove a point to his friend to he was

like oh well hey why don't you like come

to New York and I'll just like introduce

you to some people in my network uh and

out of that was born this this charity

that Jordan and I actually started

called Elite meet that's still around

today it's like a networking event it's

a series of networking events for

transitioning military veterans and

private sector you know hiring managers

to meet and get jobs so I did that for a

little while ironically my job became

running a charity that helped other vets

get jobs funny uh but Jordan instilled

in me he was a big believer in Gary

vaynerchuk's style of social media that

sort of like bombard the internet with

content and be like Allin on content uh

and Jordan he even had a similar sort of

he was similar to Gary ve and and I uh I

I found it like really fascinating the

idea of social media and content

creation because when I was in the

military I didn't even have or I might

have had a YouTube account but I

certainly didn't post on it didn't have

social media but I I with Jordan we

began using social media content to

drive donations for this charity we're

running together uh but at some point I

wanted to do more like with social media

I was doing storytelling but narrative

storytelling like written out stories

about military stuff to try to get

generate donations and I was like yeah I

want to I want to do something for

myself with social media like build a

brand for myself and I I I committed a

cardinal sin one that I was very aware

of so this is self-awareness but doing

it anyways um in the the SEAL Teams and

really I think in Special Operations

generally despite what you see in terms

of books written and like movies made

about seals and you can Google seals and

there's like 78 examples of seals that

are publicly talk publicly talking about

being Navy

Seals there is like this code of conduct

amongst the active duty community that

you don't talk about being a seal that's

not what you can say you are a seal no

one's telling you you literally have to

lie about it but being a seal is not

something that's yours being a seal is

you were allowed to enter a community of

people that were like fighting for a

common goal together struggling bleeding

dying together like the the the strength

of the brand of seal the seal brand is

built literally on people dying and so

you can't then leave the military and

say hey look at me I was a Navy SEAL

because that's for personal gain you

can't do that it's sort of a gray area I

get it yeah I began posting about being

I was the

quintessential look at this guy Mr Navy

SEAL uh at first it wasn't that way it

wasn't like one day I was like guess

what guys I'm a Navy SEAL but it it

began as like a oh I'm going to just

like have my own accounts and sort of

tell stories about my experience as a

seal to push people towards Elite meet

but then quickly as these began to

succeed not really but kind of they got

like a thousand likes here or there I

was like wow that's that's pretty cool

and I like began leaning a little more

and more until finally I was like

fullsend like the guy that you're not

supposed to be this is like in 2018 2019

and dude I got disowned by the Navy SEAL

Community I mean like hard give me

specifics when you say disign uh I could

pull up DMS uh from Instagram no I so at

first did not catch a whole lot of

public at first I think I was doing it

and people sort of were like well he's

doing this charity Elite meet that's

helping seals it's helping vets but

gradually as I sort of drifted farther

and farther away from that into just

like John the Navy SEAL mind you I'm not

giving up anything sensitive it isn't

like I'm talking about stuff that's like

problematic it's really just doing some

of this you know pumping my chest I

began receiving just some of the most

painful messages I've ever gotten in my

life it's it's it's different than

getting hate you know as Mr Ballin on

the internet I certainly get hate from

time to time but it's different because

they don't know me it's like they see

somebody on the internet doing something

they don't agree with or like and so

they they they speak their opinion I'm

sure you're familiar but it's not

personal it might feel personal at first

but you get used to it this was actual

seals who I knew who wanted me to know

exactly who was sending this message

like writing me messages to be like hey

I used to think of you this way and now

I think of you this way with like

detailed explanations of and talking

about how at the team like we all talk

about how much you [ __ ] suck

basically and like I would go I lived in

Virginia beach at the time which is

where uh the team Seal Team Seal Team 2

that's where I was at it's it's a big

town but it's where like a huge

concentration of seals were and during

this time I would like go out to like

the grocery store and I would see people

that I know these are not I think that

guy could be a seal it's like oh no I

served with him I know exactly who that

is and they like mean mug me and my

family at the grocery store or the gym

because remember this is not like a

normal group of people this is

like a group of highly trained killers

of like operators people that like go to

war they're not afraid of conflict and I

have done something that in many ways

has like tarnished their brand not their

brand not have they look at tarnish the

Brotherhood it it's like I'm being

selfish and I was revive they hated me I

got I got regularly two to three

messages email Instagram wherever I I I

get I get phone calls voice messages of

people leaving me just the most deep

cutting personal like I this is how I

know you and this is what's being said

about you and this is how I feel about

you it was horrible but luckily

uh I had already had the experience in

my life CS gas thing the coming home

from college thing of fairly quickly

realizing that no matter how I justify

this no matter how I justify why I

drifted into this Arena ultimately I

knew what was going I knew the line and

I knew when I crossed the line of being

no matter what the public thinks about

sealed content that you see on the on

the internet I knew amongst the huge

majority of people that will never be

public about their service the active

duty guys and and the retired guys I had

crossed a line for them and I was not

dumb I I I would have been just as upset

if I was them still active looking at a

guy like me but instead of like getting

mad at anybody or looking for

Retribution or trying to justify it uh I

deleted it all at some point I remember

there was a night I'm like sitting on my

couch and I got a message from somebody

that I would have said was one of my

very close friends and it just said you

suck that's all it said but it sounds

stupid but this is somebody who's on

Team Six this is somebody who is I

specifically trained with and was like

very close with like his wife and my

wife were close and like I know what the

context of this message is it's way more

than you suck it's we're not the same

anymore like you're different and I look

down on you and I was like I can't do

this there's there is no amount of

success that I could possibly achieve

doing the Navy SEAL content stuff that

would be worth what I'm going through

right now and so instead of being like

I'm going to just act like they didn't

happen I just removed all the content

save for a couple of very small specific

things and I hadn't lost the itch for

making content but it was like I can't

do anything with regards to being a seal

because that's not worth it to me and I

don't want to do it I felt wrong and

after trying things that never worked

like sketch comedy and like following

trends at one point I was my lowest my

lowest moment my my worst one was I uh

there was a trend on Tik Tok briefly

where people would tell like sort of

weirdly traumatic stories not traumatic

but like intense stories but with

autotune they'd use the feature in Tik

Tok that was autotune and they'd like

sort of sing it as autotune but it would

be like about the time they got like

mugged and so like it's the the contrast

is so extreme it's sort of

interesting I did something like that

and I made it and I was like I cannot

post this this is like the worst thing

I've ever made uh but nothing worked and

I I remember thinking like okay you know

I I I don't have a clue what I could do

that would be interesting um and

actually I remember I had these two

documents in my computer this is again

post deleting everything I'm like trying

to make it on social media with

something different I had this one

document that was like ideas for Content

that were not seal related that were

like totally divorced from that the

sketch comedy the autot tune whatever it

was and I I literally had exhausted all

of them but I had this other document

that for I didn't even know why I had

separated this topic but it was all I

wrote on it was deat laav P so

personally I am interested in the

strange dark and mysterious the tagline

that's become the Mr Ballin thing

basically Unsolved Mysteries but not

like don't think True Crime necessarily

think like World level Mysteries like

what's out there is there life out there

like why is this portion of Antarctica

blacked out out on Google Earth like the

Deep like scintillating stuff that no

one really has an answer to I I've

always been drawn to that stuff and I uh

there's a really famous mystery called

the diat laav pass and it's about these

hikers in the 50s these nine really

experienced hikers uh who are going for

their what's called their level three

mountaineering test which sounds sort of

like run-of-the-mill but in fact in in

Soviet Russia in the 1950s this was like

Master Mountaineer nobody had level

three this is like the top if you did

this you're like the best climbers in

the country if not potentially the world

this is a big deal and the way you pass

your level three is you and the people

taking it with you there was nine of

them you have to map out this route

through this really rugged part of

whatever Mountain you're going to use

they use the EUR all mountains so big

snow swept like huge icy mountains and

you map out this course that like checks

the boxes of difficulty and you you're

effectively timed you have to start on a

particular day in time and they have

people set up along the way the

scheduled checkpoints if you will and so

they brought cameras with them this

group this is again 1952 I think it was

and so this these young nine hikers who

were like so excited to do this test no

one stressed they're so pumped there's a

couple of couples in there they set off

on this this journey and I think they

reached the first checkpoint I forget

what it is but they didn't make it to

whatever second checkpoint or whatever

it was and there was a protocol for the

people who were sort of sponsoring this

TCH that were part of the checkpoints

that knew this they knew what was going

on where if they missed a checkpoint

there's like this big search that goes

out to make sure they're okay even

though the even though there's some

expectation that they might not make a

checkpoint by like a day because it's a

difficult test but the protocol is like

really extreme as soon as they go

missing it's like the Army gets involved

and they go and follow the route to find

the hikers so they missed the checkpoint

this protocol is enacted and not only

are there pictures that we will get from

the hikers but there was cameras that

came with the search crew they they

follow the trail that they're supposed

to be on this is again there's no trees

it's just like the tundra it's like ice

and snow and mountains and they come

across this mountain off in the distance

and they see on the Windswept Side of

the Mountain basically halfway up are

these tents that are just these like

canvas tents you barely see them but

they're they're situated right in the

middle of the of the slope which is like

strategically one of the worst places

you can place these tents so immediately

they're thinking one it has to be the

hikers because who else is out here

right now but two why in the world with

these incredibly talented hikers or

Mountaineers why would they ever pitch

their tent there this is the most

hazardous part the wind can whip you off

you either go to the top and over or you

stay to the bottom let's say you beun

hiking up that mountain you get halfway

and you're like I can't make it you

better go back down and make T and make

your Camp down there so they see this

these tents they're in the wrong spot

they go up to the tents and the hikers

aren't there they're not in there

there's pictures of this too the tents

inside had stacks of clothing neatly

folded and and placed in the corners

like as if they hadn't they left their

clothes behind and the and the tents

themselves were cut open like with a

knife but somehow they deduced that they

had been cut open but from the inside so

presumably one or multiple of the

Mountaineers chose to cut open these

tents in like negative 50 degree weather

and then there were all these prints in

the snow that led down the mountain and

some of the prins were bare feet some

had one shoe and one Barefoot and it's

all nine of the hikers they they spotted

these Prince and they follow the prince

down the hill or the mountain it's a big

space and they find this little crops of

trees there's only a few few areas in

the Euro mountains in this part of the

Euro mountains that have trees and

there's this little group of trees and

when they get to the trees they find

three of the hikers and they're all

deceased and there's one who's basically

almost naked kind of wrapped up on the

ground there's pictures of this uh

there's one who I believe was draped

over one of the branches up in one of

the trees and then another one that was

also on the ground as well and there's

these deep scratch marks in the tree

like gouges on the tree as if some

animal had been scratching at this tree

and all three of these hikers are

deceased and they there's it looks like

exposure but they're not really wearing

the right clothing or they're missing

pieces of clothing but they're all

deceased there's more footprints that

lead away from those three about a mile

kind of back in the direction the search

party had come from and there's this big

snow drift that created sort of like a

snow cave underneath it and the

footprints lead into the snow cave cave

where the other six hikers were and

they're all deceased as well except in

there the hikers had seemingly exchanged

clothing and they know this because the

women were wearing men's clothing and

vice versa some of their clothes had

Trace levels of radiation and some of

them had parts of their face removed it

looked like lips nose ears it almost

looked like like surgical Precision

removal they're all deceased and uh one

of the injuries there was a person in

there who their chest had basically been

caved in and it was deduced that the Imp

it would have taken there was no there's

no lacerations just their chest was

caped in the impact would have been

equivalent to like a speeding car

smashing into at full speed but there's

no sign of anything that could have done

this damage and they're all deceased and

so the Soviet government they launched

an investigation and during this

investigation they discover that there

was a huge military exercise a Russian

military exercise taking place in the

eural mountains who had no idea about

these hikers they have no clue that the

level mountaineering test is going on

that's not even on their radar and

they're you know 15 20 miles away and

one of their senior commanders on the

same night that it's believed the hikers

all died and whatever happened to them

happened he began noticing all these

strange lights in the sky over the Ural

Mountains going up and down and moving

all around to the point where he

actually thought it was another country

a foreign country are they invading us

and he literally thought it was like an

invasion of Russia and he sent out

messages to say hey what's happening

over there having no idea that he was

pointing to the one spot

where these hikers were so during this

investigation they discover that

families are clamoring for information

about their lost loved ones no nobody

has any idea what what's going on and

suddenly the Soviet government says up

we're going to shut this investigation

down all we know is that the nine hikers

who died died from an unknown unnatural

Force

sealed and to date even though there was

actually a recent investig a

reinvestigation done in

2020 uh it's remained like one of the

great Unsolved Mysteries in part because

it's got this like oh the the Russian

government sealed it and there's more

information what do they mean unknown uh

unnatural Force but there's pictures of

the tent of the bodies of all this stuff

and so I uh I always thought that was a

fascinating story and I love stories

like that and I I was at this water park

in Pennsylvania with my family indoor

water park and at this point I've

exhausted the one list you know

nothing's worked on social media this

new thing Tik Tok had sort of begun to

happen uh I didn't really even know what

it was but I was like maybe I'll try

posting on there you know because it's a

it's a new platform maybe that'll work

and I was like but I bet I I want to try

something else you know because these

haven't these ideas haven't worked and

so like in my hotel room I tell my wife

and three kids like go down the water

park I'll meet you down there in a

minute and I just pull out the phone and

I do a 60-second rendition of that and I

was like hey you know at the end of this

you're going to Google you're going to

Google two words and I tell this brief

story about this this crazy mystery and

I'm like that's called the deat laav

pass mystery that's the name of the P

they were in when they were found and I

post this video to my account that has

no followers it's like the Mr Ballin

account there's a story behind that but

it's it's a nothing account post it and

really no expectation that this is going

to amount to anything I leave my phone

in the room because I'm going down to

the water park I can't waterproof my

phone I'll be with my kids and when I

came back up a few hours later and I

picked up my phone I couldn't even get

it to turn on like it was like I was

like oh is it all is it power dead and I

finally get it on and it's just like

like notifications like mad from this

video there's over 5 million views on

this video mind you everything I've ever

posted collectively has maybe been like

a 100,000 views so this is like massive

virality but it was utterly divorced

from seal stuff this is like pure I

think this is fascinating and I love

telling stories and that wasn't like oh

boy here's a business opportunity it was

more like oh my God this is so cool I'm

going to tell more stories like that cuz

this is what I like and I just began

making story after story that sort of

fell in line with that and the and it

happened to fall at literally the start

of the pandemic so it's like suddenly

everybody is not only on their phones

but they're on Tik Tok and everybody on

Tik Tok is like mostly kids dancing and

also me telling stories with a flannel

and backwards hat and so the account

just blew up like mad I transitioned to

YouTube and I I've just been telling

stories ever since so first and foremost

I have to ask what do you think happened

to those hikers

man I don't know I don't know so the

they reopened the investigation like I

said in 2020 uh it I I don't claim this

to be true but I think it might have

been in part because of the viral the

virality of that that video suddenly

there's this newfound interest of people

Googling that the outlaw pass um and

they concluded that there was an ice

slab that broke off and killed them but

it's like how does that account for like

the clothes being exchanged the the

potential radioactive nature of their

clothes like what the the the military

guys Sol with the lights there's too

many things that don't get explained um

it is true that like when you become

hypothermic when you when you become

truly hypothermic and you're nearing

like the end basically you're about to

die from exposure uh it's you you become

warm to the point where you're hot you

actually take your clothes off yeah

that's a well documented thing so you

could say okay so they're they're they

they've pitched a terrible place on the

on the mountain they're they're being

exposed to the elements they're

basically freezing maybe they did maybe

as skilled as they were they weren't

really prepared for the weather and so

they became hypothermic and let's say

maybe an avalanche or an ice slab did

come down and maybe they got hit by the

ice slab and now they're hypothermic

they're taking their clothes off but

it's like okay what are all the marks in

the tree you know why are why are their

clothes radioactive what did the

government mean when they said an

unknown unnatural Forest back in the

1950s what were the lights seen by the

the military guy there's too many

unanswered questions so I uh admittedly

am a huge skeptic and if anything doing

uh creating this content has only made

me more skeptical because there's so

much stuff that gets put out that's not

true and it's just like totally made up

but this remains one of those stories

that just sort of makes you wonder like

is it possible there's stuff out there

that we don't necessarily understand

like Supernatural forces or you know

extraterrestrials like I'd say this is a

a story that certainly opens the

possibility but I also would be

perfectly fine to hear that actually

turns out here's all the things that

happened that makes that completely

reasonable maybe there was a a leak of

some kind that like leaked out radiation

or who knows what so I'm open to it but

I think it's it's one of the few cases

that that seems like could make a case

for

paranormal and my next question is as

you reflect on the Journey of your life

yeah from from the basement to the seals

to then producing the seals content

getting disowned from your seals

Brotherhood because of that then

stumbling across this Tik Tok thing yeah

then YouTube and everything else that's

happened when you look back and go like

how can I give anybody advice on how to

stumble into their thing based on the

actions the intentional actions that I

took that brought me here so one of the

things that my wife and I often find

ourselves saying uh is like wow like we

the timing on things is just amazing we

are so lucky with timing and I'll give

you a couple examples so when I was

getting medically retired from the

military there was a time where I

actually was going to be pushed out like

actually cut from the military and it

was going to be like a year earlier than

when I actually did and so it was like

hey you're going to get medically

retired and it's happening tomorrow and

I didn't have a I didn't have a job

lined up I didn't have anything lined up

and that's actually when I began

reaching out and I met Jordan and it was

like really quickly we we came up with

this Elite meet thing but then after the

elite meet thing I actually had some

legs and we're getting donations in

we're putting these these cool events on

and I have like this feeble little

salary coming in from it plus my

retirement I'm like okay I can keep I

can keep things afloat for a little

while until I figure out the next thing

right as that happened so out of

necessity i' I've I've found a way to to

make an income within like a month of

needing to have an income the Navy says

actually we're going to extend your

contract for an extra I think it was

eight months or something and so

suddenly I had the uh the opportunity

with Jordan and Elite meet but also got

eight more months or 10 months six I

forget what it was it was it was less

than a year but it was a lot more time

in the Navy but I really didn't have to

do much in the Navy I I was already on

the medical discharge way I B I had to

go to work and like either like a couple

hours a week it was not hard but it

meant I got paid through the Navy and so

it allowed me really to not worry about

pulling money from Elite meat and

pulling a salary I can just grow Elite

meat with Jordan and get paid by the

Navy it's like the Navy is incubating

Elite meat but Elite meat wouldn't have

existed if I didn't have that oh my God

I'm getting out in a month I have to do

something about it and so it feels like

oh the timing so perfect like I started

Elite meet with Jordan and then I was

granted this extra time with the Navy it

fostered the this company it incubated

this company but no I've sort of always

looked at the looked at my life as being

like man there just such amazing timing

on things like I just feel like we're so

blessed with the timing like when like

the the Tik Tok thing like I just so

happen to to like be making this video

when suddenly everybody's on Tik Tok at

the beginning of the pandemic yeah

that's insane timing for sure and I'm

not denying that that's a timing thing

but also I'm somebody that is perfectly

willing to take a chance and do

something like I don't I don't get stuck

on is is this a good idea or not it's

like I'm just going to try this thing

and it's the people that are sort of

willing to quickly check a box and do

this thing that will be in a position to

where timing can benefit you if you're

constantly like ah I'm thinking about it

I'm thinking things are going to pass

you by and so I I look I forget what the

question was but essentially the the

advice I would give is like really it's

sort of what Joo said it's this idea of

like you just got to start moving

because it's

amazing what doors begin to open up for

you if if you're already on the move if

you're stationary they don't open it's

interesting because as you were talking

about timing I was thinking that's not

what I think the answer is I was

thinking that timing is one of those

things you you see in hindsight and go

gosh wasn't that perfect timing but for

it to be perfect timing you need to be

the kind of guy who's willing to send

their kids down to the pool with your

wife and make a Tik Tok video on a

platform you know very little about yeah

doing something you've never done before

right and it's actually in that moment

that I think your that's your like

moment of Brilliance that's when your

life pivots because genuinely 99.9% of

people would not be making a video on a

platform they don't know much about on a

subject that they've never made it a

video about before and your story is

like riddled with those moments where

like even responding to the guy on

LinkedIn you said most people didn't

reply that's right but I responded and

then you went and met him in New York or

something and that c so in in hindsight

yes it looks like timing but actually

it's that you were in moments where you

were lost you got moving you did

something you had a bias towards action

yeah and failure is feedback feedback is

knowledge knowledge is power so you it

was it's interesting because when you're

talking about like your bias of just

like do something aim at something what

what it appears is happening there is

even if the thing fails like some of the

things you tried failed at least you're

getting feedback true and then the

feedbacks informing what you do next