In order to be successful, you need to

know that people have a small number of

slots in their brain for who they

remember. So, you've got to get into

people's head. And in order to do that,

you need to know two things. The first

one is 7-11-4, which we'll talk about.

And the second thing is that your brain

is extremely good at deleting messages.

But there's five things that will not be

deleted by the brain. And the last two

are the ones that are most useful. So,

the first one is six.

I wish I knew this stuff at the start of

my career. Daniel Priestley is the

money-making expert and serial

entrepreneur who's built several

multi-million-dollar businesses from

nothing and has mentored over 3,500

businesses with the same frameworks for

career success that you're about to

learn. The problem that we have now is

that we live in a digital world, but all

of society is built for the industrial

revolution system, which means that

we're playing by an old set of rules and

going through a schooling system that is

preparing them for a world that no

longer exists. So, people feel like that

there are no opportunities, there are no

safe jobs anymore, feeling like you're

in competition with AI, and that leaves

a whole generation of people feeling

absolutely wiped out before they've even

started.

So, what are the new set of skills

people need to know to set them up in

this digital world? Well, there's

actually a step-by-step approach to

doing that, including building a

personal brand. Okay, let's pause there.

Why does that matter? Cuz that's the key

to capital, talent, customers. And it's

not about becoming an influencer with

millions of followers. But if you're

seen as a key person of influence,

that's enough to make seven figures. And

is that where your five P's come in?

Yeah, and I'll take you through all of

those. And then there's the

entrepreneurial pyramid, which opens you

up to this whole other world of

opportunities as well as side hustles

and the two types of opportunities that

everyone needs to know about. I want to

go through all of that.

Let's do it.

This has always blown my mind a little

bit. 53% of you that listen to this show

regularly haven't yet subscribed to this

show. So, could I ask you for a favor

before we start? If you like this show

and you like what we do here and you

want to support us, the free simple way

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the subscribe button. And my commitment

to you is if you do that, then I'll do

everything in my power, me and my team,

to make sure that this show is better

for you every single week. We'll listen

to your feedback, we'll find the guests

that you want me to speak to, and we'll

continue to do what we do. Thank you so

much.

Daniel Priestley.

How'd you

define and describe what it is that you

do with your content, with your work, um

and through all of these books that

you've published? What is the summary of

what you do and who you do it for?

So, I have a massive passion for

entrepreneurship. About 20 years ago, I

started seeing a massive trend uh about

entrepreneurs who could stand out, scale

up, and make a positive impact in the

world through business.

Um I have built multiple businesses over

the last 20 years, and I'm just uh

fascinated by the predictable stages

that people go through in order to build

successful businesses. Um as I've been

growing my businesses, I've been writing

about it in my books, um mostly to

document what I'm learning myself. Um

and I also built a community of

entrepreneurs who wanted to uh

essentially make the most of the times

that we're in.

So, what's happening at the moment is

we're going through massive amounts of

change. It's very similar to the

agricultural age, when it was replaced

by the industrial age, and there were

new economic rules that didn't apply to

the agricultural age, but did apply to

the industrial age. So, the agricultural

age was the feudal system, and the

industrial age was the capitalist

system. What's happening is the

industrial age is fast being replaced by

the digital age.

And as we go through this massive

change, we're seeing new rules and new

economic rules that apply. So, give an

example. In the industrial age, people

had to to become successful, people had

to gain skills, and then get a job and

find an employer who would uh employ

them for those skills.

As we go into the digital age, what

works is to build a personal brand based

on your unique intellectual property,

and then to position that brand next to

a scalable digital uh elegant business

model. And those who are doing that, and

those who have figured that out, are

doing incredibly well and succeeding at

speed. And there's actually a

step-by-step approach for doing that. I

want to go through all of that. I am I

was running in Cape Town. Look at me

plugging my running brand that's lasted

for 5 days. Um I was running in Cape

Town and a young couple came up to me at

the end of my run when I'd stopped uh

running at underneath this tree and they

came to me it was about the 2nd or 3rd

of January. They said um "Steve, we love

your content. We've been listening to

Diary of a CEO for a while." And they

looked at each other and you could see

that they were really stressed and they

said, "We're just trying to figure out

how to start a business and what we

should be doing." And I could see in

their face that they'd been mulling it

for a long, long time. There was this

like they're very, very young. I'd say

they were like 21 years old and they

were saying like, "What do we do?" And

actually at that time I said, "You need

to need to listen to an episode I did

with Daniel Priestley." But I also knew

you were coming on so I said, "And I'm

recording with him shortly so make sure

you listen to that." So through the lens

of that 21-year-old, you've detailed

that their world has now changed.

They're living in this digital world.

Where would you advise those two to

start if they want to capitalize on the

opportunity that's presented itself?

Okay, so I'll slow down for a minute.

What's happening at the moment is people

in that situation they're feeling

incredibly invisible um that they don't

matter. They feel stuck that there are

no opportunities. You can't buy a house,

you can't get a career, uh there are no

safe jobs anymore, um AI's disrupting

everything um and they feel detached

from meaning and purpose. And that

leaves a whole generation of young

people feeling absolutely wiped out

before they've even started. It doesn't

actually exclusively apply just to

people in their 20s. I know people in

their 40s, 50s, I know entrepreneurs who

have traditional businesses who feel

that way. So it's worth acknowledging

that it's a widespread phenomenon.

Everywhere in the world people feeling

invisible, feeling the pain of like not

being able to connect with the right

people um and feeling stuck and feeling

detached from meaning. So what we need

to do is address that be- because what's

happening is you're playing by an old

set of rules and that's normal because

the school system told you an old set of

rules cuz it was based in the industrial

age, and we have to start by learning

the new set of rules.

So, if I was advising 21-year-olds in

particular,

the first thing that you want to do is

called an entrepreneur apprenticeship.

Uh an entrepreneur apprenticeship is

where you go and work in a small team of

less than 12 people where you have

direct contact with an entrepreneur, and

in particular, you're looking for an

entrepreneur who has somewhat of a

personal brand. So, they have, let's

say, 5,000 to 50,000 uh followers on

social media. And they've got an elegant

business model that inspires you. It

doesn't necessarily have to be exactly

what you want to do in the future, but

you need to learn the new rules. So, you

need to learn how is that person

building their personal brand, and how

are they building their business so that

it can scale. How do they communicate

with people anywhere in the world? How

do they sell to people anywhere in the

world? So, those are some of the key

things that you have to do. You do not

want to become an entrepreneur straight

away. It's too big a shift. You need to

be a number two. I was a number two. I

had a mentor. I worked for an amazing

guy for 2 years. Uh we went from zero to

6 million in a year, and from zero

people to 60 people in 1 year. So, I got

the entrepreneur apprenticeship first,

and that's where you want to start. And

then, once you do that, you can do side

hustles, and then begin the

entrepreneurial journey on your own.

But how do you know if it's for you? How

do you know if you're cut out for it?

So, at the moment, what's happening is

that the rules are changing so fast that

you uh it's not like anyone's cut out

for it, right? So, there is no sure

feeling where you go, "Oh, I'm really

cut out for this because it's giving me

clear signals." During times of

disruption, the signals get uh jammed.

So, what's happening is people are going

through a schooling system that is

preparing them for a world that no

longer exists.

So, we go through 12 years of school,

and it's saying, "Oh, you know, here's

how you get ready for an employer."

Well, there are no employers. And here's

how you get ready for a career. There's

no such thing as careers anymore. Um and

here's how you get ready for a job. Oh,

by the way, that job can easily be done

by AI already. So, all of this is

happening, and that means that people

are feeling this void, and they're

saying, "Well, I don't feel ready for

anything." That's because you had 12

years of training for a world that

doesn't exist anymore. So, what we have

to do is say,

"All right, let's look at the world that

is emerging, and let's position

ourselves for that world, and reskill

ourselves, and reposition ourselves for

that world."

When you were talking about that

entrepreneurial apprenticeship, it

sounded like a new form of education, a

new form of university. Are there any

other ways, if we're talking about that

preparation phase, where you're getting

ready, are there any other ways you

would advise someone to rapidly excel

their knowledge and skills in

preparation to become an entrepreneur?

Um is it books? Is it Do I sit on chat

GPT? What worked for you? Books are

great. YouTube channels are great. I

didn't have any of that. Um you know,

believe it or not, even books were hard

to come by when I was a teenager. Um you

know, you had to kind of order business

books in, or you had to go to a big book

store that had a business book section.

Um we didn't have Amazon, and we

certainly, you know, anything like a

podcast, you actually paid for cassette

tapes and CDs, and they were $1,000.

They were really expensive just to

listen to some business content. Believe

it or not, that was a thing. Um

and all of it's for free now, online.

However,

there's you can't learn to ride a bike

uh through books and videos. You have to

get on the bike. So, the best thing to

do is to work for someone who's building

a business, and if you can't do that,

become a co-founder with someone who's

got more experience than you. Um and if

you can't do that, then you need to do

some small side hustles. A side hustle

is an open and shut business case. So,

within 90 days, you're going to start

something and finish something all

within within 90 days. You're not going

to get yourself into a long-term thing.

You're just going to start something,

see how it goes, and it ends in 90 days.

When I was a teenager, I did nightclub

parties. So, the nightclub party had a

time where we would agree with the club

that we were going to uh have the venue.

Then we had a promotion phase, then we

run the party, and then that was it. At

the end of the night, we split the

money, and that was the finish. And it

all happened very quickly. And you get

the learning experience, but you don't

have the ongoing

connection to the business. I also sold

roses door-to-door. So, on Valentine's

Day, I bought

a few hundred roses, we dressed up in

tuxedos, and we went door-to-door

selling Valentine's Day roses. And that

probably lasted 3 weeks from the time we

came up with the idea to the time we

found a supplier, bought the roses, went

door-to-door,

and made our sales, and then it was all

finished at the end of Valentine's Day.

So, these are called side hustles, and

the important point is that they're not

ongoing ventures. They're just open and

shut, and then you can reflect, you can

then sort of see what worked, what

didn't work, and then see if you want to

continue after that. Something else that

I I don't think I've ever heard many

entrepreneurs or founders talk about

when they're giving advice on that

preparation learning phase is the

importance of writing.

Yeah. It's not had a profound impact on

me.

Um my the rate in which I learned

was having a practice.

stage in your journey did you write? So,

I made a commitment to myself when I was

24 to write a tweet every day. Okay. And

I would screenshot it and post on

Instagram. Now, this was maybe the

single biggest hack in my life that I've

never really talked about because of the

all of the downstream consequences that

occurred.

Downstream consequence number one, got 2

million followers on Instagram by

posting these quotes of ideas that I had

every day. So, every day at 7:00 p.m. my

girlfriend knew at the time she goes,

he's going to go off for an hour and

think of something to say.

Um downstream consequence number two is

it taught me how to communicate ideas in

a concise high-impact way, and kind of

what people respond to.

And I'd say number three is it generally

meant that if I went through my day and

something had happened,

it gave me a moment to condense that

down into wisdom,

a piece of truth. So, that day

I learned something and

um without that practice, those

learnings kind of would have passed you

by.

So, what you're describing is actually

beyond just writing, it's publishing. Um

and publishing means to make public, to

put something into the public domain.

So, yeah, there's journaling which you

keep private, but then there's making

something public. Um and when you have

when you do this, you have to think

about how would this be a value to

others? Um so, you're thinking, you

know, entrepreneurs have to be thinking

about how would this be a value to

others. You're putting it into the

public domain, so you're getting

feedback as to whether this is a good

idea or a bad idea or okay idea. Um so,

yeah, uh publishing doesn't have to be

tweeting, it doesn't have to be um

writing a book. Publishing is video,

audio. Um it can be long-form content,

it can be short content. Uh you could do

shorts, you could do tweets, right? All

of that is publishing. The the essence

of publishing is that you're taking your

ideas and sharing it publicly, putting

it in the public domain. That is a very

rapid way to get started. Um interesting

fact on this, that out of the billion

people who use LinkedIn,

only 3% are publishing regularly and

less than 1% publish weekly. So, you

think that you're in competition with a

billion people on LinkedIn.

99% of people are just there to kind of

lurk and watch what other people are

doing. Only 1% of people are competing.

1% of people are creating the content on

that platform. Um when it comes to

YouTube, there's 2.7 billion users of

YouTube, but only 4% of people have a an

account and only a fraction of those

accounts are active. So, it's a tiny

percentage of the world's population

that are creating something. Most people

are consuming. So, one thing that you're

describing is the move from being a

consumer to a creator. And entrepreneurs

have to make that move.

How have you

accelerated your learning? Because

you're someone that is able to

give out lots of different ideas from

lots of different reference points. And

there must be some kind of underlying

framework you're using to like learn,

process, and publish, which now presents

you, which is part of the reason you get

invited onto the all these podcasts now,

and people are paying you to speak at

their events, etc. What was that

framework for you?

So, my background was I used to have an

agency, and we used to run all these

different events, and we used to have to

put stuff onto people's seats when we

were running events, and I had to kind

of write stuff all the time like quick

reports and all of that. So, I got in

the habit of writing. I saw the power of

writing.

Um in 2009, the entire world tipped on

its head um after the global financial

crisis, and I was completely disrupted.

Uh I went from

millions of revenue down to a few

hundred thousand of revenue. I lost 90%

of my revenue in 1 year. Um it was mass-

It was I remember one Christmas party,

17, 18 people at a Christmas party, the

following year was three. Um it was

morbid.

So, during that time where the global

financial crisis had such a deep impact,

I began writing about what is it that I

know to be true? What is it that like I

don't know much because I've just had

the rug pulled out from under me. What

is it I do know to be true? What are the

most uh

strong truths that I could share? And I

ended up writing the book called Key

Person of Influence in 2009, and it came

out in 2010.

And what I felt very confident about was

this idea that the future was going to

see a shift from business and

institutional brands to personal brands.

That we would see the decline of big

faceless companies and the rise of uh

individuals whose personal brands were

bigger than the institutions. Um and it

was pretty radical idea at the time, but

I felt pretty confident about it. And

the more I wrote about it, the more I

felt this was where the world was

heading. Um if we look today, we can see

Brian Cox, Professor Brian Cox, has more

followers than CERN. Um we can see

Richard Branson has orders of magnitude

more followers than Virgin. Uh we can

see Elon's got more followers than NASA.

Uh we can see, you know, Trump is way

more powerful than the Republican Party.

So, the the essentially the personal

brand has just gone woosh ahead. Um but

I was I I started that process very

murky that I didn't quite know what it

was. It was a feeling or a sense. And by

the time I'd gone through the publishing

process of writing, uh I was clear.

And the macro factors that brought that

about?

What are those underlying shifts that

happened that meant we went from the

logo to the person?

Let's zoom out 300 years. So, the the

agricultural age

uh was essentially the economic system

was called feudalism. And there was

lords and kings and queens. And then

there was serfs and people who served

the land. Then technology changed

things. You can imagine what it must

have been like when 300 people were on a

farm, and then they saw three people on

a tractor.

And then that tractor went

and went and did the job of hundreds of

people with three people on it. And it's

like, "Oh my goodness, what are we all

going to do?"

Um how are we all going to live our

lives anymore, right? And then they

would have said, "Well, what are going

to be the jobs? Like, everyone works in

farming." And it's like, "Well, there's

going to be this whole new system. There

will be a completely new economic system

called the industrial system, and it's

going to replace everything."

So, back in the agricultural age,

uh if you were a lord, right? And if you

were rich, if you were successful, you

had vast tracts of agricultural land.

But as soon as the industrial age kicked

in, you didn't even need land. You only

needed a tiny amount of land to put a

factory on. What mattered is that you

had the ability to organize labor and

machinery. And if you could organize a

factory, that was way more economically

productive than a huge hundreds of

acres. So, the whole economic system got

tipped on its head. And suddenly it

didn't matter if you were a duke, it

mattered if you were an industrialist,

if you were a capitalist. So, this whole

new system took over. We had 200 years

of innovation, and it went through

multiple waves. But, the important thing

to know is that it's technology that

changed things, right? It's always a

technology shift, right? The the the

fundamentals of the economy are dictated

by the technology that we have available

to us.

So, what happened around the 2000s to

2020

is we had these general-purpose

technologies that just got introduced as

though they were nothing. You know,

suddenly everyone can publish a video

online. Suddenly, everyone can write a

blog. Suddenly, everyone can tweet.

Everyone can form a community on

Facebook. Uh there's this device that

you put in your pocket that is better

than a uh traditional camera studio that

the BBC would have had. So, the the

power was just rapidly swinging from

institutions to individuals. I'm sitting

there going, "Wait a second, an

individual has got all the things that a

multinational corporation has access to,

but they don't have the bureaucracy,

right? They don't have the the weight on

their shoulders. They don't make slow

decisions. They can make fast

decisions." So, as I witnessed this

technology being introduced, I said,

"The way this is going is it's going to

take all the power of big businesses and

institutions and just give that to

individuals."

That's exactly what happened.

And it I mean, if there was ever a year

where that's been more in focus with

this election cycle and what we've seen

with Trump and going on Rogan and Kamala

going on Alex Cooper in the media lens.

That That's what cost the election. So,

that's a big trend. Um

US presidential elections have always

predicted major trends. So, Franklin

Roosevelt in the '30s, he did the

national radio campaign. JFK in the '60s

did the televised campaign. Obama in

2008 did the social media campaign. Each

of those campaigns changed the game.

Trump in 2016 did a hyper-personalized

digital data-driven campaign, uh

famously with Cambridge Analytica. And

that actually gave birth to data

analytics and hyper-personalization.

And then something big happened in 2024.

And what happened is that Trump broke

the mold on campaigning and he started

going on all these major podcasts.

And if we actually crunch the numbers,

Trump did something like 40 hours worth

of watch time.

And it got 124 million views.

And Kamala did, I think it was 7 hours.

Just in the long form? Yeah, just on the

long form. She did 7 hours total and it

only got a few million views.

And one of her podcasts only last 7

minutes.

Now, what she did is she approached it

like a McKinsey consultant, which is she

turned up and she said, "Here's the

script, here's the questions.

Ask me these questions and then I'm out

of here." And it was very much the kind

of professional corporate approach.

Trump rocks up onto comedian's podcast

and says, "Yeah, ask me anything." And

then he just goes on a big rant and it

goes for 3 hours.

Now, what's actually happening is is

quite predictable.

In a world of short videos and in a

world of AI and in a world of confusion

and disruption

and and where everyone's throwing

punches at each other saying, "You're

misinformation, you're misinformation."

You've seen some of this, right? Going

on, right? Misinformation,

misinformation.

What's actually going on is that people

say, "Hey, enough's enough. I want to

see a long-form piece of content and

make my own mind up. I don't want anyone

to tell me what's misinformation. I'm

smart enough. I want to see if this

Trump guy is a crazy guy. I want to be

able to see him, you know, for 2 or 3

hours and I'll make my own mind up on

that because everyone's saying so many

different things and I know that there's

all this confusion. I want the long-form

piece of content."

So, 2024

began the long-form unscripted era,

right? So, now where we are with

marketing is you've got to drop the

script and you've got to do long-form

content. And here's my prediction.

The prediction is is we're going to see

the biggest CEOs in the world clamoring

to get onto this podcast and other

podcasts like it. They're all going to

be wanting desperately to build their

personal brand because they know that

the long-form unscripted podcast is the

only way to hire talented people, the

only way to get loyal customers, the

only way to keep investors happy. It's

going to be the key to the entire

shooting match is that the CEO of a big

company has to become human and they

have to be unscripted.

And what advice would you give them

because you consult for a lot of people?

They come to you for advice whether it's

the biggest influencers of the world or

CEOs. If

if you were giving them advice on how to

achieve that goal, what would you say?

Well, I I mostly talk to entrepreneurs

and I mostly care about entrepreneurs.

And the advice I give to entrepreneurs

is work your way up the podcast pyramid.

Um so, there's literally thousands and

thousands of podcasts that get a few

thousand views. Just go on those. Go on

lots of them. Um if you do a good job,

you'll eventually be invited onto a

slightly bigger one and you'll

eventually be invited onto a slightly

bigger one again. And there's this

pyramid of, you know, there's there's a

few podcasts as big as yours, but

there's thousands of podcasts in every

single niche and vertical where anyone

can go on and you know, talk about who

they are and what they do.

So, for any entrepreneur, my challenge

to them, the ones that I'm working with,

is an absolute minimum I want them to

create 10 to 20 hours of watch time in

the year ahead. So, I want people to go

on 10 podcasts that last for 2 hours or

1 to 2 hours and I want them talking

through their business story, their

origin, their mission, their vision,

you know, how they got started, the

types of people they employ, the types

of customer problems they solve, the

outcomes they deliver. All of that, put

it all into a podcast, get good at that

format.

You

publish in lots of ways, right? You

publish written form, you publish in

video. Is there anything at all that's

if there was one single thing that's

helped you become better at speaking or

communicating ideas

and you can't say, "No, I'll take away

the restraints." What would you say it

is? Frameworks. Frameworks. What does

that mean?

So, you need communication frameworks.

So, if I'm introducing myself

to someone, I use something called name,

same, fame, aim, and a game.

So, we can break that down.

What is my name and my business name?

What is What is it that I'm the same as

that you already understand?

Let's pause there. What is Why does that

matter? When people are storing

information, they need to open a folder,

and they want to open a folder that's

very easy to label. So, they don't want

to open a folder that says like I'm an

energetic healer that works with

transmutational objects that that

transcend time space and blah blah blah.

They want to go, "Oh, you know, you're a

life coach. Okay, great. I understand

that." Or you're a vet. Okay, cool.

You're a consultant. You're You know,

you're a software company. Got it. So,

it's like just the most basic thing that

I can then hang everything on that. Mhm.

Cuz I already understand it.

So, name, same, fame. So, fame is like

what makes you interesting? What makes

you fascinating? What big brands have

you worked with? What interesting

projects have you landed? So, anything

that would make you stand out. Any big

numbers, any awards, any big names, any

of that would be your fame.

So, name, same, fame. Aim. What are you

working on in the next 90 days?

Mhm. And then game. What is your bigger

vision? What do you want to achieve in

the next three to six years?

I think a lot of people aren't even

clear on that.

A lot of people aren't, and that's why

the framework's powerful, cuz it forces

you to get clear on it. If you then get

clear on it, you can introduce yourself

with power and authority. You can do the

beginning of a podcast. You can be on a

stage. Just introducing yourself at a

networking function. Believe it or not,

you can cram all of that into 30

seconds. Mhm.

And so, going back to this point of

preparation. Right, so one of the big

things that is going to give me a

significant competitive advantage if I'm

building a business is personal

branding.

What else do you think someone like me

at the start of my career needs to

understand about the game of personal

branding? Is there are there any

particular platforms I should be aiming

at? A particular upload cadence? A

particular type of content? Here's what

you need to know.

You need to know that humans have a

limited ability to remember names and

faces. They only have a small number of

slots in their brain for who they

remember. And the number is about 1,500

in total.

Um and it's about 150 that you can kind

of remember well. And these are called

Dunbar's numbers. And Dunbar's numbers

basically said you've got a few slots

for your family and then some more slots

for friends, then you've got your

acquaintances right out to 1,500 people

that you can easily put a name and a

face to.

In order to for you to be successful,

you've got to get into people's head.

They have to kind of know who you are.

Um in order to do that, they have to

spend time with you. They have to have

rep uh repetition with you and they have

to see you in multiple contexts. So, the

research says 7 11 4.

7 hours, 11 interactions on four

platforms. Per?

In order for you to remember me. Okay.

Total. Okay. So, for example,

you and I, we've now connected a few

times. Um so, we have probably clocked

up maybe 7 hours together. Mhm. Now,

what that means is that uh if I bumped

into you at a conference, even if I was

on one side of the room and you were on

the other side of the room, you'd say,

"Oh, there's Daniel." Your brain would

immediately go, "Oh, there's Daniel.

I'll walk over. I'll say hello." Because

we've spent enough time together. Um

now, there's this phenomenon called

parasocial relationships. Parasocial

relationships are basically one-sided

relationships. It it's how we feel

towards famous people.

So, we think that we know George

Clooney. We think that we know Angelina

Jolie. We don't. It's a parasocial

relationship. That person we've spent

time with them through their movies,

through their media appearances, and

therefore, because they've clocked up 7

11 4 with us,

we then feel that we know them.

Is this making sense?

Makes perfect sense.

Yeah, so what we have to do is build

parasocial relationships at scale.

So, what we have to do is put out enough

stuff where anyone can spend 7 hours, 11

interactions for on four platforms.

So,

when I work with entrepreneurs, here's

one of the questions I always ask. I

say, "If I was to block out tomorrow,

and I'm going to take all day to watch,

read, or listen to everything that

you've got available online,

and uh I'm looking for things that are

on message that tell me about who you

are, who you serve, what it is that you

do,

can I spend all day going through your

online environment and just fill the

entire day?"

And most people say no.

And then, occasionally, some people say,

"Yes." And they say, "Yeah, actually you

can. I've been on a few podcasts. I've

got an audiobook that I released. I've

got some videos on YouTube. I've got

some posts on LinkedIn. You could go

through all of that." Those are the ones

that are scaling really fast, because

they've put in the work to be scalable.

They can build a parasocial relationship

like that.

And if we drill down into the art of

building a parasocial relationship,

Mhm.

because it's funny, at the start of the

conversation you said that these are the

new rules in business in the world

because of these macro changes. But at

some point, the new rules become the old

rules again,

Mhm. when everyone listens to this

podcast. And you kind of see it at the

moment on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a

um

a long stream of professional personal

brand builders, whereas 5 years ago, it

wasn't the case the case.

But but the but the numbers are still

only 1% of people are doing it. 99% of

people aren't posting weekly. So, we're

still early.

We're still way early. But is there is

there a

a framework for

creating some kind of differentiation

amongst

a noisy crowd? Because

Yeah. So, the the differentiation So, a

lot of people ask me about

differentiation. So let's talk about

what makes you different. And to you to

talk about this, let's go through a

scenario. And the scenario is that

you're walking down the street and

you're walking down Oxford Street and

it's thousands of people, really busy

street.

And as you're walking down, your brain

has this limbic system that just deletes

people. So you just kind of see people

as blobs not to hit and you just kind of

walk. And if I stop you at the end of

the street and I say, "How many people

do you remember seeing?" you'll go,

"None. I don't remember seeing anyone in

particular." If I said describe some of

the people, what they were wearing, "I

can't remember anything."

So your brain is extremely good at

deleting messages and this is what's

happening in our marketplaces. People

just delete everything.

Here's what doesn't get deleted. So

there's there's five things that will

not be deleted by the brain. The first

one is scary. So if something is scary,

we pay attention to it. This is why the

news has been so successful for many

many years because they say if it

bleeds, it leads. If it's scary, if it's

horrible, people will watch it. Let's

find the the worst possible things that

happened today. Let's blow them up and

put them in everyone's house so that

they spend time watching uh watching the

news.

So so be a scary person.

scary, right?

Uh the next one is be strange. So if you

saw someone walking down the street uh

dressed as a giant hot dog, you'd say,

"Oh, I remember the guy who was dressed

as a giant hot dog." cuz it's so

strange. Peacocking. Yeah. Well,

peacocking, yeah. Uh you could try Yeah,

exactly. You could wear that big kind of

hat that you've got in the cupboard that

uh that we don't talk about.

Mhm. Uh and then the next one's sexy.

So So we've got strange, we've got

scary, we've got sexy. Now these are

three things that most businesses don't

want to be. So most businesses can't

stand out and sexy, even if they wanted

to be that, most people can't pull that

one off anyway.

Um so only a few lucky people get to do

that one.

Um but actually the last two are the

ones that are most useful.

And that is providing free value, so

free things.

Anyone who gives free value away is

immediately stand out.

Okay, we've got to make sure that it is

value.

It's got to be value. Because everyone

thinks what they're doing is value.

Totally. It's got to be something that

people would have otherwise paid for.

Um and it has to be beautifully

packaged. So, if I hand you a piece of

jewelry in a plastic bag, you're going

to think, "Oh, it's fake or it's, you

know, stolen or it's, you know, not real

or something like that. It's cheap."

Right? If I hand it to you in a

beautiful box and it's beautifully

wrapped, you're going to say, "Oh,

that's a very thoughtful gift." Mhm. So,

it's the way that it's packaged and it's

also, you know, that it's actually

something that people would otherwise

pay for. So, providing free value,

um and also being familiar, which is

clocking up the 7-11-4. So, free and

familiar are the two things that anyone

can apply.

So, look at Let's look at you, for

example. You spend tens of thousands of

pounds producing episodes of this show

and you just make it freely available on

um

YouTube. I wish that's how much I spent.

Well, each each show, right?

Um

So, you're putting all this energy and

effort in and you're putting high

production value. You're going to the

expense of getting all these great

guests. All of this stuff's going on and

then you're making it free for so many

people. You're including people in

conversations that they normally

wouldn't have access to. So, you have

clocked up enormous amounts of standout

value for people because you've been

consistent, so 7-11-4. People have spent

7 hours, 11 interactions, four locations

with you. Um and also you've done free

value. So, you've given a lot for free.

So, um essentially, those are the two um

and you're also strange. So,

So, with those three things, you've been

able to uh succeed massively.

We do have scary conversations as well.

I have to be honest. We did the nuclear

bomb conversation, right? And happy sexy

millionaire, so you've got that as well.

Yeah, sexy is what I'm Thank you so much

for that, Daniel. You've got all five

going on.

It but when you were saying this, So

actually thinking of this as a a

marketing framework for brands as well.

I was thinking of that kid that I met on

the in the promenade in Cape Town with

the couple and I was thinking if they

were starting out with an idea today in

a very saturated environment like Oxford

Street in London,

pulling in on some of these actually

gives you such an unfair advantage to

get to get going. And I I I know this

myself because when I was 18,

one of the things that I realized in

hindsight was working for me was I

looked a bit strange. I had this big

which some people will find photos of,

this big hat that I used to wear and I

would wear it everywhere. I wore it

because my hair was But it became

this like this distinctive thing that at

conferences, at events, on my LinkedIn,

it became part of my brand. That's why I

interjected with the word peacocking

because looking slightly different in

some way does actually It does work.

Yeah, it cuts cuts through the noise.

The other thing too, let's go to your

friends the 21-year-olds in Cape Town.

One of the first things we can do for

free is we can

um productize what's called the demo

and the customer needs analysis. So

let's get really tactical here.

Um

when it comes to what most people do to

launch a business, they make a real

focus on the supply of what they do. So

if they let's say they want to do a

drinks business,

they're going to like talk to bottling

companies and they're going to talk to,

you know, how much do I have to spend

buying the fruit to put in the tea and

do all that sort of stuff. They're

thinking about the supply of what they

do.

Um if they're going to launch a

consulting company, they're thinking

about, oh, do I have the right MBA

qualifications and all of this stuff is

the supply side of what they do.

What we want to do when we launch

anything is we want to test the demand

of what we do. So testing demand, the

best way to do this

is uh one of the best ways to do this is

to productize the demo and a customer

needs analysis. Mhm. So that is where we

go around and we sell a presentation

that might be 15 minutes to for hour

where we present what it is that we can

do and how it works and the principles

of how it works and then we collect

enough data to identify whether you've

got the need for that product. So, it's

called a customer needs analysis. So,

the demo and the customer needs analysis

you can package that up so it feels like

a product. It feels like something free

of value.

So, give me an example then using I'm

going to launch a a new coffee. Yeah.

And it's the the the point of difference

with my coffee is

it is going to be good for your libido.

Fantastic. So,

uh let's imagine that we're going to

sell that through retailers. Yeah. And

the real customer is not the end user,

it's the retailer who's going to stock

it. So, what I would do is I would say

we've got a new coffee brand coming and

it's all about coffee for libido

boosting.

Um and what we want to do is we want to

present to you the data, the research as

to how this coffee works and why it

works and all of that sort of stuff. We

want to show you the branding, we want

to show you like what this is going to

look like. And then also what we want to

do is set up a customer needs analysis

where we collect the data from several

of your locations to find out in advance

whether people would sample this

product, whether they'd buy this

product, how much they'd spend.

Um so, we will at our expense do the

clip boarding or we'll do the um wait

list campaign um or we will uh collect

the data uh through um

a you know, a coming soon promotion. So,

essentially what we're going to do is

we're going to present the data and

we're going to do the customer needs

analysis or present the demo, the

customer needs analysis and that's all

going to be packaged up as our first

thing. Now, mind you, we may have no

coffee at this point. We may actually

have no physical product, but big

retailers, they move slow anyway. Even

if you had product, they wouldn't buy it

today. So, they're going to say, "Oh,

that's fantastic. That's what we'd like

to do. We want to collect the data and

we want to see the demo and see the

research."

So, by packaging that up as a first

step, uh you're actually providing

initial value. Do you know one of the

things that I don't think I've ever

talked about that I think um

entrepreneurs and people that are

founding companies should really

consider

is

if you're thinking about let's say

writing a book,

instead of writing the book and then

hoping it does well,

Mhm. what you should do is you should

take the book idea you have

and then run it as a Facebook ad.

Run 100 different titles. Um and when

people click on that Facebook ad, they

hit a waiting list.

Yes. Now, in that whole process, what

you've just done there is you figured

out the exact percentage of people that

will click on um 100 different ideas.

So, for my upcoming book, one of the

things that I did and some people

listening to this now would have seen

the ads, is I ran 70 book titles.

Mhm. Beautiful. So, 70 books like this

would have popped up in your feed and

people have clicked on them and they've

said, "I want I would like that book."

They put their email address in or

something like that. And now I have this

data and I can tell from the top of my

head Which is the most successful?

15% of people clicked a certain one and

the worst performing one was clicked by

0.3% of people. And I could have

written a book um about that 0.3. And my

math isn't exceptional, but the variance

between a 0.3% conversion and a 15%

conversion is like what's that? 1,500%

or something crazy?

Um and all and it was and it would cost

me 200 quid to run the test. Yeah, um

that's the beauty of Facebook ads. You

know, you can do a set I mean, at any

given time we've got hundreds of

different variations of ads running and

they it's like, you know, it's basically

the Hunger Games for which ad performs

better.

Um and people don't do this sort of

stuff and this is how professionals like

yourself launch businesses. So, um with

anything that I'm launching, whether

it's a book or a product or a new

business, we're going to run a set of

Facebook ads, probably 10, 20, 30

different variations. When you click on

the link, it says, "This product's no

longer available in your area." Or this

product is not yet available in your

area. Um but you can join the waiting

list. Click here to join the waiting

list. Now, once people click to join the

waiting list,

uh that's where we ask about five or six

key questions. So, there's this thing

inside people's head called the

situational model. And the situational

model is where am I now, where do I want

to be, what's in my way, and what do I

perceive as the path of least

resistance. So, all the questions that

we ask uh

tell me about who you are today, which

best describes your current situation.

Tell me about where you want to be,

which best describes the outcome that

you're looking for from this product or

service.

Uh

what's in the way, which best describes

the reason you've not been able to get

that outcome in the past. Mhm. And what

are you currently considering

as an option for getting that outcome?

Right? So, those are the key four key

questions. Then we might ask some price

questions.

Uh what price do you feel would be a

fair price to pay?

What price do you think would be so

cheap that it would make you question

the quality? What price would be so

expensive um that you would no longer be

able to afford this?

So, we'll ask a few pricing questions.

So, we don't just get people to join a

waiting list.

Sure. We're saying we want to understand

the situational model. Because here's

the interesting thing, especially with

other products, not necessarily books,

but with other products, sometimes you

get a lower click-through rate,

sometimes you get um what appears to be

cheaper marketing,

but attracts the wrong person. Yeah. And

then sometimes you get a poorer

performing marketing campaign. So, this

one might produce leads at £10 a lead,

this one might produce leads at £20 a

lead, but this one might be attracting

students who are broke, and this one

might be attracting chief executive

officers who are on 500 grand a year.

I'd rather pay £20 for that client than

£10 for that client. So, by getting the

situational model, uh we can actually

then understand which is the best

campaign. Is there anything else that's

really sort of pertinent to testing if

my idea has legs? And I want to just add

an element to this, which is we're not

just talking here about the first idea,

we're talking about every product you

you release in the future.

every business. Even your marketing

campaigns and everything you do.

Yeah. The The world is moving so fast

that if you're an existing business

listening to this, let's say you're a

big business, you do tens of millions of

profit, you're going to be pivoting into

new products, new markets, new

territories. You're going to be um

trying to attract different age

demographics. You're going to be you

know, all of that sort of stuff.

This is one of the rules of the current

economy is about data and testing.

You've got to be really fast with how

fast you can prototype and test and get

the data. Um so we love intro events

where you just simply do an introduction

event on Zoom uh to talk to customers.

Um so we're introducing you to this new

coffee. Um what do you think? Uh come

and join the introduction event. We're

going to share with you some research.

We're going to have a a guest speaker

who you've already heard of, right? So

that would be an introduction event. Um

I'm a big fan of discussion groups.

Discussion groups are awesome for

testing a an idea. So let's say um

it's a discussion group. You know, let's

say you're doing a a new brand of coffee

and it's for Sex coffee. Sex coffee,

right? Sexy sexy coffee. Um so yeah,

we're going to do the sexy coffee

discussion group, right? And it's

basically we're launching a new product

um and it's all about uh bringing sexy

back to coffee. Um and if you love

having coffee and you want uh want to

be part of this new brand that we're

launching, join the discussion group.

Discussion groups are pretty wild. So

I'll give you two examples of discussion

groups. One of our clients um Gabriella

Rosa, she uh ran a clinic.

Um and it was a fertility clinic and it

was about natural fertility

breakthroughs. Um and what she did is

she had a physical clinic that was run

in a traditional way. She wanted to go

and be more digital. So she launched an

online discussion group where she said,

"This is a discussion group for people

who want uh fertility breakthroughs."

23,000 people joined the discussion

group, all right? And it was super

active and she never had to worry about

customers ever again and she built her

business then globally. Uh from there

she wrote a book and she changed her

business. She went from a physical

location to a digital business, um but

it it started with a discussion group.

Um another guy, one of our clients, Max,

he sold a business, not for a crazy

amounts of money, but a decent sale, and

he decided he wanted to um spend time

with people who had

uh family offices. And family offices

have hundreds of millions of dollars to

invest, and they're like basically the

family office of multi-billionaires and

things.

He reached out on LinkedIn,

and he said, "I'm launching a WhatsApp

group for people who run a multi-family

office or a family office. If you'd like

to join, uh it's limited to 400 people.

If you'd like to join, fill in the

application form to be part of our

WhatsApp group for family office." So,

he ended up with 400 people who have

collectively over 10 billion to invest.

And he built himself a a a group of

people who are some of the most

successful investors in the world and

some of the biggest checkbooks in the

world. Um so, it just started with a

WhatsApp group. So, um a discussion

group is just a super easy way to launch

anything. Um and it costs nothing to set

up a discussion group on WhatsApp, on

Facebook, on LinkedIn.

Um so, those are some of the some of the

best ways. And then, the final one that

I love is called an assessment. So, a

quiz or an assessment. And this is

basically

where essentially you turn the customer

needs analysis into an assessment, and

people fill in questions to find out uh

if they would like the thing. So, for

example, I noticed on one of your

uh what which one? Huel, right? Sorry. I

noticed on Huel that

you have a quiz.

Um and the quiz is which Huel is right

for you? Um and if you click that

button, you answer a series of

questions, and it tells you which

product would be the best product for

you to uh for you to take. I noticed

that Whoop didn't have it, right? So, I

actually created one for you. But

anyway,

you. uh I'll give it to you later. Um

but basically, if you wanted to uh

launch a product like Whoop, you you do

an assessment, which is how well do you

know your health and fitness? You know,

um do you are you tracking your sleep?

Are you doing this? Are you doing that?

So, by launching the assessment first,

while you've got the product in

development, you could get 10,000 people

who filled in the assessment. Now, if

they've come up with a score that is

like, "Oh, I only know my health and

fitness 22%. I need to get that up to

over 80%. I need a product that helps me

to do that."

So, that assessment is essentially

diagnosing a need. You're helping the

customer diagnose a need. Yeah. That

maybe they weren't clear on.

Yeah. So, this is customer needs

analysis. Smart businesses often sell

the needs analysis before they sell the

product. Especially with anything that's

especially anything that is complex.

But, it goes beyond that because most

customers now feel a sense of clutter in

their lives. We've gone from feeling 100

years ago, we felt that we had lots and

lots of things that we wanted or needed,

and we had unmet needs.

Most people feel the opposite today. We

feel that we have too many books and we

haven't read them. We have too much

entertainment, we haven't watched it. We

have too many clothes and they're

cluttering up our wardrobes. Our houses

are full of stuff. Mhm. So, people feel

such clutter that they only want things

that are hyper-personalized to the thing

they actually need.

Um because otherwise, they feel, you

know, that it's going to be another

thing that they're not using.

So, by selling a customer needs

analysis, when people see that it's a

perfect fit, then they want to buy. In

my last book, The Driver of Success: 33

Laws, I talk about um the idea that

friction can create value. Mhm. And I

give examples of where someone has added

friction to the customer process and

it's resulted in more people buying. And

one of the studies I talk about is where

they took two groups of people, they

exposed one of them to a survey in order

to enter a discussion group.

Mhm. Right? So, they had to go through

this survey process to get in. And they

let the second group straight into the

discussion group.

Yeah. And then they asked both groups

to rate how valuable and enjoyable they

found the discussion group to be. Now,

the group that had had to go through a

survey to get in

Yeah. reported that the discussion group

was like really interesting, etc., etc.

And the group that had been let straight

in reported that it was boring. And it

was an intentionally boring group. The

stuff So, they made an intentionally

boring group.

But just because you made someone go

through a process to get in, people

reported that it was more valuable

than otherwise, which says something

about our psychology.

does create value. Um demand and supply

tension is the ultimate test of value.

Um

you know, it's horrible to say

and I I hate this being true, but there

is no such thing as objective value.

Nothing is objectively valuable.

Everything is subjective. Why is a

Bitcoin worth what a Bitcoin is? Because

there's more buyers than sellers.

There's demand and supply tension. Why

is water free? Because it's freely

available. There's no friction.

Why do we never stop and think about how

incredible it is that we have Google

Maps?

And like we go like, "Oh my goodness,

someone spent a billion dollars sending

satellites up so that I can have maps on

my phone for free." Like no one's

weeping tears of joy for Google Maps,

and we should be. Mhm. Because he you

know, someone spent a billion dollars on

our behalf, so we've got free maps on

our phone, but there's no friction

around it. Mhm. Now, if they suddenly

said, "We're taking it away," we'd hit

the roof. Yeah. And if they said it's 10

bucks a month, we'd pay 10 bucks a

month. Mhm. Um so, friction creates

value. Um demand and supply tension

creates value. Now, the very difficult

thing that we have in the world right

now is that in a digital environment

there's no natural tension. Right? So, a

hundred million people can watch a video

in a week and you know, it transcends

time, space, wear and tear. There's no

barriers. Nothing There's nothing that

stops it.

The money accumulates around those

tension points.

So, the successful businesses, they know

how to use the digital environment to

drive up demand and manufacture desire

and manufacture demand. And then they

have choke points in their business or

tension points in their business where

demand and supply tension is rife, and

those are the places where they

monetize. Mhm. Um something that's

really interesting about monetization

that's happening at the moment is that

all the money is moving up to the top

10%, right? So, as as we go through this

big transition,

the affluence is all up in the top 10%.

So, we did some research into this.

The top 1% of people in your audience,

in everyone's audience, whether you're a

you know, LinkedIn account or whether

you've got millions of followers,

top 1% have got a total of 15% of the

budget

available to spend.

The next 9% have got 45% of the budget

available to spend. So, in the top 10%

there is 60% of the available budget.

And then the bottom 90% collectively

have 40%.

So, what happens is that the new

business model that's emerging is that

you give free value to the bottom 90%

and you don't ask anything in return,

but you monetize the top 10%, and you

find things that are very special, very

rare, special experiences, special

products, limited editions, um

communities, uh

special access.

The top 10% have got all the money, so

you just give free value to 90% of

people, and you only create products and

services for the top 10%. That's very

much a new business model at the moment.

And the 90% are driving your content,

your business, your product to the top

10% through their engagement, their

sharing, etc. Well, it's a fractal. It

doesn't matter what you do, the top 1%

will even if

even if you only did something for

billionaires, the top 1% of billionaires

have got 15% of the total budget, and

the and the bottom 90% of billionaires

have actually only got 40% of the

budget. If you take the Forbes list,

it's still those numbers still apply. Um

the key is is that you well, actually

what you want to do is the opposite. You

don't want to get dragged down into the

90% because the 90% are the noisiest,

they're the loudest. So, if you ask

everyone how much should I charge, the

average answer is going to be $500.

But, if you ask the top 1% how much

should I charge, the average answer is

going to be $15 to $20,000.

So, you have to be very, very careful

not to create a product that gets

dragged down towards the 90% cuz the 90%

don't have the budget to pay the top

money. You're far better off

having a way of um

uh

a way of segmenting that top 10% so that

you can actually pick up the signal from

them and not the noise from everybody

else. Are there any other frameworks

that you would use in that early stage

where you're trying to figure out if

your idea has traction or even from a

sort of motivation psychology

perspective

if it's worth pursuing this thing for

the next 10 years of your life.

Because we talk a lot about okay, if

someone's clicked on it, someone there's

demand and interest, but the journey of

an entrepreneur is an emotional one. And

as you often say, there's you go through

hell and high water, ups and downs as an

entrepreneur. So, there's an element of

this which is like figuring out what you

want to commit your life to. Mhm. Well,

we call this the entrepreneur sweet

spot. And the entrepreneur sweet spot is

a Venn diagram. And you're trying to

balance between your passion, Yeah. the

problem and the value of the problem

that you solve, and how much people are

willing to pay for that. So, passion,

problem, payment.

Uh so, ultimately

things that we're highly passionate

about,

that's great, but that only ticks one

box. And if you're passionate about

something, but you're not solving a

problem for others and they're not

willing to pay you for it, you're going

to feel very unrewarded, you're going to

feel

um disconnected, maybe you feel even

unethical uh about that.

Uh a lot of people in corporate jobs,

they solve a problem and they get paid

well, but they're not passionate about

it. And what they tend to do is throw

the baby out with the bathwater, and

they go and pursue being a yoga

instructor from being a corporate

lawyer, and then they wonder why they

got no money cuz they just kind of threw

away the thing that they're very good at

and the thing that they get paid for and

just exchange it. So, what we have to do

is actually try and capture all three

by making some compromises. And the

compromises are I'm not going to go to

the thing that is the extreme of

passion, and I'm not going to go to the

thing that's the extreme of financial

rewards. I'm not going to go to the

extreme of my intellectual property and

my problem-solving abilities. I'm going

to find something that is in the middle

that ticks all of those boxes. So, I'm

I'm getting a good blend. While

understanding that I'm There's going to

be a trade-off. There's going to be some

shadow on the

some trade-offs. Yeah, you can't have

You can't have it all at the extremes.

You can have it all, but not uh all uh

at the extremes. You You talked about

something at the start of this

conversation. You mentioned the word

geography.

Um as we were talking about the macro

factors that are at play in the

transitions we've seen. My question to

you is, does geography matter

for success

as an entrepreneur? So, those kids in

Cape Town,

do they need to be thinking, "Listen, we

need to move to one of the major cities

if we're going to have stand a chance in

most of these new digital um

opportunities?" It used to matter a lot.

When we used to think about

entrepreneurs, we thought about two men,

typically in their 20s,

who came from an a prestigious US

university. They got into a garage.

They, you know, they dropped They

dropped out of Harvard. They dropped out

of Stanford. Uh and then they started

something that was VC-backed. That was

the old model of what we think of as an

entrepreneur. And it was very much

dependent upon those parameters.

Entrepreneurship's transcended that.

It's transcended geography, gender,

race,

um

and and also the sca- size and scale of

what we consider to be successful. So,

what we're now seeing is people all over

the world who uh are able to connect

with markets anywhere in the world,

launch a product that can be sold

anywhere in the world. Um we're seeing

people who bootstrap rather than get VC

capital. Uh we're seeing people who um

rather than trying to create something

mass market, they create something niche

market. Rather than trying to scale to

be a unicorn, they actually ask the

question at what size would I be

fulfilled? So, there are plenty of

people who

Well, one of the most fulfilling

businesses that you'll ever have has

between six and 12 people and does three

or four million of revenue. And if

you've got that,

probably you're going to be the most

fulfilled person in the world. If it's

profitable. Yeah, well, cuz a lot of

these businesses have 60% margins. If

they're digital businesses, if they're

intellectual property

um you know, if they're running on the

new economy assets,

then they'll be wildly profitable. So,

you might have six to 12 people do two

or three million a year. You might make

a million of clear profit. Um and then

you're totally building a business on

fun, freedom, and fulfillment. Are you

the next Google? Absolutely not. Do you

have VCs breathing down your neck? No.

Um are you able to pick and choose the

types of people and opportunities you

want to work with? Yes. So, incredibly

fulfilling. So, that's a new type of

business. I would call that a lifestyle

boutique.

Um there's another type of business

called a performance business. Um and

this is a business that typically has 30

people, normally working with some sort

of technology,

and they build a business that

they build a business that can be sold

for between 10 and 100 million. And

that's my That's my game. I like

businesses that achieve 10 to 100

million valuation with about 30 people

on a team, and we can sell to either a

publicly listed company, a private

equity-backed company.

Um we can exit to any of those kind of

companies, but you know, we don't have

to be the next Google, and we also don't

have to split the exit with a VC.

Why do you say that when you also just

said that the most fun and fulfilling

businesses are actually those small ones

with a small group of people? In order

to go to that next level, you have to be

a business geek.

So, anyone can build a six to 12-person

business, and at that point all you have

to geek out on is the topic of interest

to the customer. So, if your customer

loves yoga, you're just talking about

yoga all the time. Or if your customer

loves photography, you're talking about

photography. And you don't have to be a

business geek at that point. When you've

got a team of about 30 to 100,

uh you have to be a you have to be

totally into the product, the

intellectual property of what you do,

but you also have to geek out on

technology, and you also have to geek

out on business.

So, not everyone is built for that. You

have to really love your acronyms. You

need to like, oh, go-to-market strategy

or, you know, lifetime value of a

client. I I Okay, what's the LTV? What's

the GT you know, GTM? So, you kind of

got to be into all of those things uh

quite naturally. You naturally want to

read business books. Um so,

you're not going to enjoy that if you

hate business or if you hate technology,

cuz those businesses tend to be about um

business strategy and tech. These ones

are about intellectual property, media,

and data.

Got you.

Do you think you'd be happier if you

were less ambitious?

Um I My happiness levels are really

high. Um I walk around feeling like I'm

super lucky to do what I do, and it's

total privilege, and I love living in

these times. I can't believe I'm lucky

enough to be born at the perfect time to

see this change and and to have access

to all these resources. And what do you

How do you think about work-life balance

these days? And how should especially

sort of young founders When I say young

founders, I don't mean age, I mean

stage.

Um should be thinking about work-life

balance in your view? So, I had no

balance for many years, probably a

decade or more.

Um all I did was uh essentially just get

out of bed, work, uh everything related

to work. And the reason I did that is

that it ticked all of my human needs,

right? I was getting significance and

variety, um and I was um

you know, getting uh certainty, and I

was getting all of those things that we

want from life, and I was feeling a

sense of growth and development and

learning. So, everything plugged into

those human needs, and my business was

giving me all of that. When I had uh

kids and I got married, there was this

whole other side to me that needed to be

balanced. And I think that there's more

to do with there's some seasons, like

that we go through sprints, and I tell

friends, family, uh hey, I'm going

through a bit of a sprint right now.

We're launching something new.

Um and then there are times where I

switch off a lot. Do you Do you goal set

at all? Do you set goals? And if so,

You know, I used to I used to set goals,

and I used to love setting goals.

I don't anymore because my key person of

influence brand

brings in opportunities that I can't

predict.

So, this Diary of a CEO thing was an

example of that. I had all these goals

for 2024,

and then you message me while I'm skiing

and say, "Would you like to come on the

show?"

And I go, "Of course, that would be

amazing." So, I come on the show, and

then that totally transformed my year.

So, as you build a brand, it's harder to

goal set because you've got too many

things So, goal setting is about direct

power, direct influence.

And um having a brand is about indirect

power, indirect influence. It's what you

attract. So, uh ultimately, at the early

stages, goal setting is really important

because it's how do I direct my energy?

Once you get a little bit bigger, you

have to slow down to speed up. You have

to create space to see what's happening

around you.

One of the biggest mistakes I've ever

made was filling my diary so full

that I didn't see some of the biggest

opportunities that were going on around

me. And I think this has cost me tens of

millions. And I really think at a

certain level, strategically, you have

to slow down to speed up. You have to

create gaps where things can hit you.

Things can get onto your radar. Um or

else you miss all the benefits of having

a great brand. So, I have a few

questions here. One of them is about how

you

measure or quantify the value of an

opportunity looking forward when you

have very little information about the

opportunities.

So, So, what we would what we're trying

to move towards is leverage. So, that we

live in a world of leverage. And there

are types of So, it's important to

understand there are type two types of

opportunities. There's bell curve

opportunities and power law

opportunities. So, bell curve

opportunities means that everything fits

within a bell curve, and it's very

unlikely that anything will be outside

of that bell curve. Power law

opportunities means that because of

leverage, the sky's the limit. Um what

we have to do is have the courage to

move out of bell curves and into power

laws. So, for example, a doctor in the

NHS who I know, um

recognized that all doctors earn roughly

the same amount of money. There's no

outliers. Everyone who works in the NHS,

if you're a new doctor, you earn about

this. If you've been around for 20

years, you earn about this.

Um and most people fit within that bell

curve. There's no doctors who are making

a million a month, um type thing. Then

there's the power law law. This

particular guy dropped out of being an

NHS doctor to become a YouTuber, and

recognized that there are some YouTubers

who are actually earning a million a

month, and

boom, there is this power law that goes

up. So, what we're trying to find now

Ali Abdaal. Yes, of course, Ali Abdaal.

So, what we're trying to figure out is

we're trying to figure out um

is this a bell curve or a power curve

power law? So, being a speaker on a

stage, absolutely a power law uh move.

Being friends with a billionaire in

Italy and having access to that capital,

access to how whatever networks they've

got, all of that sort of stuff, if

they're the right sort of person.

There's definitely two types of

billionaires, but

Yeah. um

but uh

that's probably an exponential

opportunity, right? It it it it puts you

further up the power law power law. Um

it's not a bell curve opportunity. Um

however, if someone says, you know, can

we meet to talk about some incremental

thing? No, that's that's a bell curve,

right? That's not going to that's not

going to break me out of what I'm doing.

So, for most people listening to this,

most people are trapped inside a bell

curve. You're never going to get out of

that bell curve. Every opportunity fits

within that bell curve. You're only

going to incrementally move to one from

one side of the bell curve to the other

side of the bell curve, and that's about

it. There is no massive upside.

If that's you, what you need to be doing

is spending a little bit of time talking

to people about exponential

opportunities, right? And exponential

opportunities always involve leverage.

That's what creates the exponential

shift. Leverage could be fame. Leverage

could be capital.

Leverage could be large databases.

Uh leverage could be huge distribution

networks that are already exist.

Leverage could be a partnership with

someone who's way further along than you

are.

Uh leverage could be being in business

first being in a job. So, all of those

things are things that move you onto the

power law. And there's it's almost the

sky's the limit at the moment because

in 2010,

28% of the world had fast internet. And

in 2025, 70% of the world has fast

internet. So, 70% of 8 billion people

have got fast internet. So, the world

the actual the number of people

available to talk to

has gone into the billions and billions

and billions. The amount of capital is

flooding into the internet. Um

everything is in that space.

And ultimately, unfortunately, one of

the things that's happening at the

moment is that you're either in

competition with everyone in the world

or everyone in the world is a is a

potential customer.

And um if you feel that you're in

competition with everyone in the world,

which a lot of people do,