Ambassador, it's good to have you, as we consider what will come of this summit

in Ankara, knowing the president himself has suggested he's really only attending

as a favor to Turkish President Erdogan, who he has a good relationship with.

Where would you where would you set the bar?

What is a good outcome for the alliance here?

Uh, knowing how how fragile the alliance with the United States seems to be in

particular? Well, to be frank, I think the bar is

pretty low, uh, basically, uh, that the meeting happens and that nothing, uh,

extraordinary comes out of it. Uh, much like, uh, the meeting a year

ago when NATO agreed to this 5%, uh, target, uh, by 2025, uh, sorry, 2035,

uh, there will be some review about how NATO countries are doing when it comes

to spending. By the way, the United States doesn't

spend 5% of GDP. Uh, on defense, it's important to point

that out. There are NATO countries who are

spending more as a percentage of GDP on defense in the United States that that

said, um, I think what, uh, everybody is hoping for is that it will be a quiet

meeting, much like the G7 a few weeks ago.

Uh, perhaps, uh, some good news on the question of, you know, support for

Ukraine. Uh, but no real fireworks.

Uh, that is now where the bar is set. We're now no longer looking towards NATO

or these summit meetings to fundamentally change, uh, the direction

of the alliance. The best thing that can be, uh, hoped

for is that, uh, the Alliance lives another day.

Well, you are right. I think we're paying about 3.6%.

Uh, if my figures are correct, ambassador, what do you make of the

post? There were several of them that the

president made untruths social about NATO ahead of, uh, the summit, uh, this

one from late yesterday. He writes ridiculous for the USA to

continue along this one sided path when the relationship is not reciprocal.

They were not there for us. Three exclamation points.

Doesn't that say everything? How do you have a meeting after that?

Why? Why even go?

Well, I mean, as you said, he's going because, uh, President Erdogan, his, uh,

his good friend asked him to. This is the same president who, of

course, is putting his opposition in jail, uh, and putting them on trial for,

uh, trumped up reasons. Uh, I mean, clearly, uh, the president

doesn't really understand how NATO works.

Uh, this isn't about whether the European countries should be helping the

United States when it comes to Iran and war, in which they were neither

consulted, uh, nor, uh, were asked to participate until after the fact and

after it took place. And it ignores all the other ways in

which, uh, European countries are and bolstering American security first and

foremost, uh, the war could not have happened with regard to Iran without the

support of basing structures, uh, that exist in Europe, most of which were

available for the war against Iran, uh, for refueling of, of of, uh, airplanes

and in many cases for launching bombers, strategic bombers as they did from, from

the UK. Uh, so the idea that NATO and Europeans

didn't, uh, participate where in there for us just ignores the fundamental

geographic reality. More importantly, our allies, of course,

have been there for us. Uh, NATO has invoked in its entire 77

year history article five, the collective defense, uh, commitment, uh,

one time, which is when the United States was attacked by, uh, Al-Qaeda

terrorists in on September 11th, 2001. At that point, NATO not only invoked

article five, it participated in military operations, including in

Afghanistan, at great personal sacrifice.

Uh, in blood and treasure. Uh, more than a thousand, uh, European,

uh, allied countries lives were lost in this war, which was not a war that the

United States that they wanted to fight or was even important for their national

interest in, was what they did because of allies.

And, uh, unfortunately, the president has, uh, fundamentally decided that what

NATO is about is who pays well, how much, uh, and secondly, whether they

will do, uh, what, uh, what the United States want them to do.

As he said, all he cares for is loyalty. That's not the basis of an alliance.

It's a it's a shared, uh, interest in the security of the Atlantic North

Atlantic area. When it was threatened on September

11th, the Europeans were there. And the hope that the Europeans now have

is when it is threatened, as it is today, by Russia, the United States will

be there. Well, let's talk more about that.

Ambassadors Joe and I mentioned, we know that the president did speak with both

Vladimir Putin and Vladimir Zelensky over the weekend.

There will be a bilateral meeting with Zelensky at the summit, uh, this week,

when the president has repeatedly suggested that he does think both sides

want to see a negotiated end to this war.

Is the time actually right for that? What would be different about the

circumstances both Ukraine and Russia now find themselves in compared to when

we've had head fakes on this previously. Yeah.

So the time is getting riper. Uh, so to say, because, uh, Russia is on

its back foot. Uh, it's offensive, uh, on the ground in

Ukraine are have stalled, in fact, are starting to be reversed slowly but

nevertheless, uh, reverse the cost, that is that the, uh, Russian soldiers on the

front line are undergoing is extraordinary.

About 35,000. Just remember, 35,000 dead or seriously

wounded each and every month. Uh, and the replacement of new recruits

is smaller than, uh, than that. 97% of those people are killed or

wounded by drones, no longer by direct fire from, uh, Ukrainian forces.

And of course, Ukraine is now, uh, targeting, uh, Russian energy

infrastructure, leading to fundamental problems at the pump.

Uh, for the first time, Russia, which is a petroleum producing country, is, uh,

thinking about, uh, uh, importing petroleum from, uh, uh, from India.

And, uh, Ukraine has launched a major, major, uh, uh, effort against Crimea.

Uh, the, the area, the part that was, uh, the peninsula that was taken away

from, uh, Ukraine, uh, by Russia back in 2014.

So in some sense, yes, uh, Ukraine is on, uh, on the march.

Uh, the Russians are feeling it. And in terms of lives, they're feeling

it in terms of treasure, the feeling and in terms of public opinion.

Uh, this is a good time, uh, to move forward, but, uh, it requires, uh,

Vladimir Putin to understand that the best he can get is what he has now.

Uh, and he has insisted that he wants more.

And that has been the problem all along. Ambassador, I know we didn't bring you

on to talk about this, but the Royal Belgian Football Association is using

words like astonished. They're investigating all potential

options to protect the fundamental principles of fair play in our sport

after apparently the president got the red card, uh, reversed here on uh,

floor. And again is if this is true and he

picked up the phone and managed to accomplish this, what's your reaction?

Is this the new way that this is done? Well, I mean, Donald Trump's not known

as a man who plays by the rules. Uh, and, uh, we're now seeing that being

translated into, uh, into the World Cup, which is, after all, the biggest

sporting event in the world. There's nothing like it, uh, it unites,

uh, people in, uh, around the world to look at, uh, at the game of all games.

Uh, and that game is now seen as being rigged, uh, because the president of the

United States personally intervened on behalf of, uh, of the U.S.

national team. Uh, it's shameful.

Uh, I see that UEFA, the, uh, European Football Association has also pointed

out that, uh, this is crossing a red line that shouldn't have been crossed.

So but that's the the world we now live in.