It's kind of weird. So, you know, Freud

said, "Depression

is when anger gets turned inwardly."

>> Um, at the time, my dad said, "Just come

home. I'll take care of you." And I

said, "No, that's not what I want. I

want to push through it. I want to like

figure it out." And because of that

entire back and forth, I didn't talk to

him for about a year and a half. He

said, "I don't know what happened

between us, but I want to have a

relationship with my son."

>> Do you blame your dad?

>> I wouldn't say I blame him. No.

>> I think you should try.

All

right, y'all. Before we dive into this

video, I got to set the stage a little

bit. A couple months ago, I made this

video on something called Puera Eternis,

and it really resonated with a bunch of

people. We're just sort of existing,

right? So, we we sort of live this life

where we're like trying to keep our

options open and we can't lock into one

thing because what if it is the wrong

thing? So, a friend of mine, a guy named

BSJ Banana Slam Jamama, a former Dota

Pro, um, Dota 2 content creator,

analyst, reached out to me and he said,

"Hey, this like concept of puer totally

resonated with me. I'd love it if you

had some time to talk about it." So, I

said, "Okay, BSJ, like let's talk about

it." And if you're someone who's

struggling with puer, I think this video

highlights one really important concept,

which is that working through puer is

not the end of the journey. That's not

the goal. It's just the beginning. But

the cool thing is that BSJ, he's very

driven, very driven dude. He'd actually

done a lot of work. And so, as we were

sort of talking about the the Puera

issue, we started to uncover other

things. And so, that's what this video

is really about. I hope you guys will

really enjoy it because it sort of goes

back to what we used to do a lot more on

this channel, which is have these really

deep meandering conversations that sort

of start out with this one problem, but

then end in a completely different

place. So, I hope you guys enjoy, if

y'all enjoy our older long form content,

this is going to be right up your alley.

>> I know you're a busy man, so yeah. Yeah.

So, tell me what I mean, do you want to

touch up a little bit or you want to

dive right in?

Can you fill me in on because last time

we talked you were doing some you'd

gotten some offer to build some kind of

like educational thing with that that

dude who had built the like Rocket

League thing

>> in the last three or four months. I

don't know how much of it needs to be

touched on but just including what you

just mentioned. Um, I had my friend

group in the Netherlands basically

implode over the matter of like two

weeks uh like in the middle of summer

and uh there was like a lot of

intertwined like things happening at the

same time and so basically my life went

through like a hard reset um in the

middle of the summer where I moved into

a new house. I uh basically started from

scratch in regards to connections in the

Netherlands. But in regards to the uh

community, I like I did decide to go on

that or that endeavor has been, you

know, pursued. It's not just about the

community. It's much more about really

teaching people in a way that means

something to me, not just like here's

how you last hit. more emotional

intelligence, more connection between me

and the students, more personalized

coaching that is is trying to reach them

on a deeper level that hits outside of

Dota as well as within Dota. Yeah, it's

I mean it's been a transformative three

or four months. So, I mean, I I I have a

a a set of questions, but let's start

with so so you watched this puer video

>> and I don't know if you I I told you

don't watch number two and I don't know

if you saw number three, but um so so if

you if you have watched those, no biggie

because I you know I was like hold off

cuz I thought we would do it in a week

but it's been a while. So, so can you

tell me a little bit about your

experience of watching those videos,

what resonated with you and and what you

why you reached out? Yeah, I mean, uh, I

decided to take some notes because I

rewatched, uh, I had had this

realization that I needed to like

rewatch them like three weeks ago. I

think it was even before I knew I was

doing this interview. Maybe like four

four weeks ago. You know, I took a I

took a bunch of notes of all the things

that hit hard. I wasn't sure if you'd

like me to mention one now or if you had

a specific question.

>> I'm just trying to figure out So, so you

you DM'd me, right? And and so I'm

trying to figure out because it's been

months and sorry about that. Um, so I'm

just trying to figure out what, you

know, where you want to pick up and and

how I can be helpful.

>> So I definitely took the plunge.

>> Okay.

>> Um, there were certain aspects of my

life, funnily enough, where I looked

back and I'm like, I used to be a pair

about this. So, right now in my life, I

know that I'm really struggling with it

with my job as well as other things that

I I do have on here that

>> okay,

>> some are not as crystallized of like

exactly how they manifest themselves um

in my life, but um there's just like

certain things I wanted to talk about, I

guess. So, I'll just go straight into

puer to make sure we uh yeah, we do hit

that point because I do have questions.

Um, so an example, one of the things

about PU is, you know, you mentioned

that it's it's uh dreading the ordinary

and also this kind of idea that you're

like above something. You're like above

a task. That's never something that I've

ever like said out loud uh or like even

internally where I'm like, I think I'm

above this. Like I never even had that

internal narrative, at least

consciously. I guess I can't help but

shake sometimes

this the the feeling of a task being not

worthy of my time. Um even though I know

I need to do it.

>> So that is definitely a feeling I I

related heavily to. Okay.

>> And it's sometimes chores. sometimes

like I could go to the gym for this

amount of effort, but then I find out

that if I want to take better care of my

skin, I also have to shower at the gym,

which means I have to pack my backpack

worth full of stuff, which spends like

an extra 15 minutes at the gym.

Suddenly, I'm now spending an hour and

30 minutes at the gym instead of 75. And

I will dwell on that. It's It's like I

ping pong on it cuz it's like I know

what's freaking happening. Like I know

what this is. like I felt like it's

explained by everything in the Per

video, but I'm still doing it.

>> So, so what's Okay, so that's a that's

something. Do you want to shower more at

the gym?

>> Um, it's better for my skin. Like it

means that I like if I don't do it, I'll

usually like break out a little bit or

something like that. So, it's an example

of like a very small thing where I'm

like, I see a tangible takeaway from

this. It makes sense to me. I It's not

worth having a breakout to like not

shower at the gym. And I still like

shower when I get home anyways. It's

just like that extra effort of packing

the bag and like getting undressed and

dressed at the gym and stuff. So yeah,

there's like a clear reason I want to do

it and it matters to me and yet I'm like

this should not be that hard. Like

that's my thought.

>> So I I'm I'm with you. So is there are

but I mean so are there other things

that you feel like are beneath you?

>> I'd say that is a lot more about my job.

Like when I think about chores and

stuff, it's much more expected value.

But when I think about my job, I feel

like I will run away from the work that

I know is dreary. And I'm only recently

become

able to at least try to push through it,

but it takes like so much mental effort

for me to like do 30 minutes of boring

[ __ ] basically. And I do feel like the

the attitude in my head is I'm one of

the best Dota players in the world.

Theoretically, I could be spending my

time making some sick video or playing

pubs or whatever and instead I'm making

my desk look cleaner. It's I'm at the

point where I can kind of push through

it, but that's the kind of stuff where

Yeah, it doesn't it see it sounds so bad

when I say it all out loud that I think

it's like beneath me, but I think that's

like what my brain is thinking that I

could be doing other things more

important. I'd say I don't know if

that's

>> So, is that something that So, so let's

just structure a little bit. So, do you

want to tell me what the other things

are and then kind of go through them or

you want to talk about this thing or

what would you prefer? like how many

things do you have on your list?

>> I can go through I can give like a brief

glimpse of of all the stuff. Um, another

thing was that my entire approach in my

20s to my career was trying to have as

many options. Be on a pro team, be a

streamer, be a content creator, be a

coach, be a panelist. I was doing at one

point in my life I was doing literally

panelist streaming, professional play

and YouTube and coaching all at the same

time.

>> Um, and only until the last few months

have I actually tried to endeavor on one

thing. So like I I think I tried to

really embrace the idea of in order to

exceed potential you have to reduce it

or like to exceed your expectations or

what the limitations you have to like

reduce your potential. Another thing

that I was actually curious because I'm

not sure if it's pertaining to puer. So

something I've noticed a lot with Dota

players, obviously it applies to me if I

say that is that they have this idea

that other people should know what to do

and that if the game goes according to

how they think it should go, then

they'll like be perfect. Like they'll

own the game. And I in my head I'm

thinking like that's the equivalent of

saying like if the external

circumstances are perfect, I'm 15k. like

I'm just the best player in the world.

What I noticed is that how difficult it

is for me to to see that somebody's

doing something I don't like because my

first instinct is to think that they

should do that. Whether it's because

there's something I wanted them to do or

because they should know better

hypothetically, like you're 12k, you

should know how to pull the freaking

creeps as a as a support kind of thing.

Um, just as a arbitrary example. And I I

hear that type of rhetoric and dialogue

from a lot of other Dota players and I'm

wondering if this like expectation of

your teammates

is correlating to puer um in some way.

>> Yeah. So your potential is easy to live

up to if everybody else does what

they're supposed to do.

>> Yeah. It's a great connection, right? it

it's so simple and and that's very

common where where puer will frequently

you know look at their situation in life

and attribute

their lack of manifestation

to the failures of the people around

them if everybody did what they were

supposed to do this company would have

been successful if my CFO had done this

if my CTO had done this there's there's

absolutely a a tendency to absolve

responsibility

Right. Like you said, if everybody else

did what they were supposed to, I would

be 15k.

>> Yeah. It's my teammates hold me back.

That's like the most obviously the most

common meme. In my head, I'm like, is

that not just pair? Like is that not

just the same [ __ ] Like obviously there

could be other stuff involved with it.

But

>> yeah, I I think it's connected. Changing

your life isn't easy. When I was

flunking out of college, I had to travel

all the way to an ashram in India to

begin a 7-year journey to put my life

back together. Unfortunately, that

option isn't available to everyone.

That's why I've taken most of what I've

learned, distilled it into the most

important points, not just from India,

but also my years of training as a

psychiatrist into our coaching program.

Coaches will help you set appropriate

goals, maintain motivation, and hold you

accountable. Thousands of people from

all over the world have tried HG

coaching and have seen sustained

improvements in purpose and direction in

life, and even reductions in feelings of

depression and anxiety. So if you're

interested in putting your life together

but don't have seven years to wander

around India, definitely check out HG

Coaching.

>> Um are there other things on your list?

>> Yeah, I mean I have like I I guess the

biggest thing that hit me when you said

it and I was like that's pretty effed is

when you talked about blaming your past

self as a circumstance.

Um, I think it's something I've worked

really hard to get rid of and so it

doesn't necessarily have to be talked

about as much, but I this whole idea

that

when something goes wrong, I'm no longer

responsible anymore. Like, and that can

be whether my teammate ruined the game,

but it can also be like I understand

that my like I stopped playing well

here, but my teammate ruined the game. I

know I died a few times in lane, but so

that like made the game harder, but you

know, and then like this narrative of

like that's their version of taking

accountability. I see this a lot and I

know I used to do that a ton and I feel

like I still kind of do it and I feel

like it's like this

um

it created in my 20s especially this

idea that there were some viewers who

were like, "Yeah, he takes

responsibility all the time." And then

there's other people that are like he

never really he like always blames other

people. And I'm wondering if that

dynamic is accounted like the dynamic of

some people thinking you take

accountability and some people thinking

you blame others like when they're

seeing the exact same uh situation. Is

that accounted for by this blaming of

your past self effectively? Like where

that's my version of accountability? I I

I'm I don't So I think that you're

adding another layer there, which is

other people's perceptions of your

stuff, right?

>> So So So I I I can kind of see how

they're connected, but I think you're

adding

>> a variable. So So then it becomes it's

not that it isn't relevant or accurate

or true or connected. I just think it's

now you're adding other people's

perceptions and that's a whole different

ballgame. If we look at puer it's I mean

there there are elements of how other

people perceive you

>> right so one of the one of the

diagnostic features of puer is I mean

can absolutely be the perception of

others so other people will sort of view

is this person who's kind of like has a

bunch of potential but is lazy or is

someone who is kind of like smooth but

flaky um you know can juggle a lot of

things but sometimes is unreliable. So,

so on that level, I think so. But what

when you start talking about

differential perceptions from one thing,

I think that has to do with more of

what's in the eye of the beholder.

>> I see. Okay.

>> But I mean, blaming your past self, what

do you mean by that?

>> So, so it sounds like that resonated

with you. Can you illustrate that a

little bit? Uh,

I did it a lot with my career where, you

know, I said like, um, I could have been

a tier one pro player if I hadn't made

this mistake back then. And and I'm

like, when I look back on it, I'm like

in reality, I never actually

did anything with that. like I didn't

like change course or because I was

still like 27 28 at the time when I

thought that kind of stuff. And I feel

like I never actually got over that in

the sense that like I never resolved

that. I feel like I probably do this and

I'm prone to doing it. I know I do it in

individual Dota games sometimes like

where I literally like I said I made

this mistake at 5 minutes. That's my

responsibility. like I know I made this

game hard and rather than like what did

I do at 25 minutes like what what

happened here? It's like I I already

made this game hard at 5 minutes. I

should have just not been here in the

first place. And I feel like the way I

do it is that I have this this mistake

could have just been avoided. So let's

not even worry about learning to solve

this problem that I'm in because I

should have just avoided this in the

first place.

>> Um I guess that's the best way I could

explain how I how it manifests.

>> Yeah.

I think there's a lot of um

puer's hate to

work with a faulty start. Like like the

the way that I kind of think about this

is I don't know if you've ever played

Civ, but

>> No, but I know what the type of game is.

Yeah.

>> You know, sometimes like what when I

play Civ, I would roll my start until it

was like

>> epic, right? because it's there's a

certain amount of RNG.

>> I can relate to this.

>> And you just keep on re-rolling. And you

want to start from perfection.

>> You don't want to take something that is

like cracked or flawed and then like cuz

you know at the end of the day it

doesn't it doesn't really matter too

much. I mean like in in a sense it does

but you know all the starts are

relatively balanced and there are some

like more unicorn oriented starts. So I

I think there's absolutely an element of

like throwing in the towel when things

don't start off the way that ideal

because then if you sort of think about

starting ideal then you can live up to

your potential in in a way that is you

know that you can't if you start off

kind of fractured.

>> Yeah. I guess for me, I mean, I a lot of

what I was was learning in my life in

the last month or two, like outside of

this that I feel like overlaps is

is trying to be more in the present, I

guess, like when I'm thinking about I

don't remember you, I think you made a

video on this too, where was like being

more contextual

>> with what's happening around you rather

than making a decision past based on

these like generalized conclusions that

you've made about yourself. And

trying to remember where I was going

with this, but I

I feel like I really do struggle to

let myself like, okay, here's an example

of how it plays out in a Dota game. If I

have a series of seven buttons that I'm

supposed to push perfectly, I'll either

push all seven correctly or I'll push

the third one incorrectly and I'll just

[ __ ] up the other four as well.

>> Like, okay. Because I have like it's

this

It's like this for me it's like this

lack of checking that I did something.

Like there's no confirmation. There's

like an assumption that I made it

perfect because that's the only way that

I'll accept it anyway. So I might as

well assume that it was perfect and just

in my head I move on to the next thing.

And then I end up saying literally on

stream, I swear I pushed that button.

Like what the [ __ ] happened? I pushed

the button. And there's weird things in

Dota like back swing mechanics and [ __ ]

where you could push a button but it

doesn't register if you push it at the

wrong time and stuff like this. So, and

I feel like I I dwell on the one mistake

along the way and I have a really tough

time

reentering whether it's in the moment

like in a team fight or whether it's in

real life as well. Like I feel like

that's an in the- moment kind of thing.

But even if I like if I'm I I'm like

trying to construct classes for my for

my for my community and when I'm in the

middle of the class and I feel like it's

derailing in a way that I wasn't

prepared for,

I think I handle it a bit better, but I

still get like really

more uncomfortable than I

think I'm that is it's disproportionate

I think to what like I'm I kind of

freeze up. I panic a little bit. Stuff

like that.

Um,

>> okay. Is that your list?

>> That's a good enough list for now. I

think I I I could maybe list one more if

you if you because it might be the most

relevant actually. Yeah, I'll list one

more.

>> It's the most relevant, I think, because

it just literally happened two weeks

ago.

>> Okay.

>> Three weeks ago.

>> Um, this whole idea of uh having like a

perfect fantasy life, like this whole

fantasy world that you live in inside

your head. There's two examples that I

have in my life that I immediately think

of. I have this really I don't want to

say bad habit. I'll just say what I do.

I'm learning Dutch. I am a perfectionist

and I'm working on it. Recovering

perfectionist or whatever. And I will be

about to go order a coffee and I will

play that conversation through in my

head a 100 times on the way walking to

coffee and then thinking about how I'm

going to say it perfectly and all that

kind of stuff. And then when I get there

at the first sign of like they can tell

I'm not from the Netherlands, I start

speaking English. Uh like that hap

that's one example. Um that I would just

love some insight on what's happening

there. Uh

because I'm aware I'm like this isn't

helping. I just need to literally talk.

And like on the way to walking to the

coffee shop I'm just like stop doing

this. Stop playing the song. Like stop

playing the conversation in your head.

If you play it in your head then you

ain't going to have it. like that's like

that's I mean that was at least the

connection I made so far. Um but then

the other one is that I have this

um and this might be a different

subject. I'm not 100% sure, but I

I when I planned things for other

people, um specifically my girlfriend in

this case, like I took her to Disneyland

with my mom and my mom and I have like a

really long like I had a lot of

childhood memories in Disneyland. And so

I had this idea of this trip being like

perfect. And like every single sign of

the trip not being perfect compared to

like what I had in my head, I started

getting really anxious that my

girlfriend wasn't having a nice time.

When like in reality, she's like, "This

is awesome. I've never been to

Disneyland." Like that's that's like the

reality of the situation.

And and during the trip itself, I I said

to her,

I feel bad cuz I feel like I'm somehow

not enjoying this when I know I am. Like

I know I am enjoying this trip. I'm

having a really nice time. These are fun

rides. I love my mom. I love my

girlfriend. And yet I can't shake this

>> Mhm.

>> feeling that it's like not living up to

what it could have been. like even

though it is great and it is so I guess

like I heard it a lot about work like

you pursue dreams and stuff and that it

ends up being dreary work but then I

feel like it's more so happening to me

in fun things like it's making fun

things less fun um because I paint this

perfect picture of what I'm looking

forward to and then it obviously doesn't

match it because it's at the end of the

day it's just a theme park. It's a nice

place to be but it's just a theme park.

Um,

>> what's it like being in your head?

>> Uh,

that's a funny question.

Um,

I'd say tiring. Sounds like it.

>> Yeah, I'd say tiring.

Most common problem I bounce back from

and forth is like I'm really tired and

then I realize what I'm doing that makes

me tired and I feel better for like a

week and then I'm I'll go do it with

something else and I'm like I'm tired

again.

>> What makes what makes being in your head

so tired? Why is it a tiring place to

be?

I mean, my gut reaction is just how many

hypotheticals I run through in my head.

That's my gut reaction.

Like I I I like an example of like the

Dutch conversation. Like that's just one

example where I feel like I sometimes do

that in a Dota game. I feel like I I do

that when I'm about to talk to somebody

about something that is not

Exactly. A pleasant conversation. It's

like in my head I think it's healthy to

be prepared for whatever, but then I

cuz that's part of how I've been dealing

with anxiety cuz I have struggled with

anxiety. So I'm like I have to prepare

somewhat

um to kind of like give myself the

strength to go do it. Um,

but then I feel like I spend so much

time preparing.

It's almost like you philosophize

yourself out of actually doing the

thing, I guess. Um,

>> I still do that.

>> I mean, what's it? How do you treat

yourself in your head?

>> How do I treat myself?

I'm definitely hard on myself. That's

like probably obvious to anyone who ever

listens to a fraction of this

conversation. Uh I am very hard on

myself.

>> How How is that How is that obvious?

>> What What are the signals that you're

giving that would make that obvious to

someone?

>> I'm pretty consistently told by people

that I give a [ __ ] about things that I

should just chill about.

>> Okay. So I guess when I say that I am

hard on myself,

I say that I feel like I'm consistently

told just let it go. Like whether it's a

mistake I made, whether it's

something that bothered me, whether it's

um

>> Does it feel like

>> Does it feel like you're hard on

yourself?

>> It does. I think

not questioning it, but I I do feel like

I'm hard on myself.

>> Do you deserve to be hard on yourself?

Is it appropriate to be hard on

yourself? Is it good to be hard on

yourself?

>> I don't think No, I don't think any of

those apply. Yeah.

I don't deserve it nor it's good or

appropriate. Doesn't help. Like being

hard on yourself like doesn't make you

do a better job or pull through in tough

situations or

be more reliable or be happier. Like it

doesn't help me and it doesn't help the

people around me. I just become less

helpful. So or like less uh not helpful.

I I become I think consistent and

reliable is like the word I would the

words I would use for like when I'm hard

on myself. I'll go into like a shell and

then I'll

it it creates a lot of the roller

coaster, I guess.

>> How does it feel to be hard on yourself?

>> When you say feel, do you mean like a a

literal emotion or uh Yes. I mean, not

restricted to that, but sure.

>> I'd say heavy.

>> Is it bad?

Yeah, it feels pretty bad. Yeah.

>> Do you like it?

>> No.

>> Okay. What's it like when other people

are hard on you for you being hard on

yourself?

>> Doesn't help.

>> What do you want? What do you want

people to do

>> when you're hard on yourself?

>> To acknowledge the thing I'm being hard

about my on myself matters.

>> Matters to you.

>> Yeah.

And so if it matters to you, there's a

good reason you're being hard on

yourself. And if there's a good reason

to be hard on yourself, it's good to be

hard on yourself.

>> If you put it like that. Yeah.

>> Right. I mean, if you weren't hard on

yourself, what would happen?

uh

you might like

sway off the I feel like you would lose

motivation perhaps or

>> I don't know about I mean maybe yeah

maybe

>> try less hard or

>> yeah and if you tried less hard what

would happen

if if you lowered the standard to which

you hold yourself where would you end up

maybe

>> yeah I think you'd end up as a janitor,

right?

>> I mean, I guess like

>> Yeah.

>> Right.

>> Good call back. Yeah.

>> So, so you you've got a lot of potential

to live up to, Brian.

You can do great things,

but not if you halfass it.

>> I don't actually know what you're trying

to tell me right now. I feel like I kind

of just got like

I'll be honest with you. I don't care if

this goes out there. 99% of people I

talk to, I feel like I'm like

I feel like I'm more emotionally aware

than this person. And it's like there's

things I'm seeing that they're not

seeing. And there's like sometimes where

I'm just like

they got me. Like this person sees right

through me. It happens sometimes. And I

don't even know what you're seeing. But

you're one of the few people when I talk

to and I'm just like

he's aware of some [ __ ] that I'm just I

don't even know what I don't even know

what this [ __ ] is. Like his question was

good. It made me think but and I see

what he's saying but then I don't even

know what I'm supposed to do with that.

And I and I and I don't get that feeling

very often is what I'm trying to say.

>> Okay. So So I'm I I'm I need I need to

clarify something here. So am I hitting

or am I missing? You don't need to make

sense of it yet. We'll do that. that'll

come. But is it in the right direction?

>> I mean, it felt like what you said was

news to me. Meaning like the question

like this whole idea of like

maybe I'm being hard on myself for being

hard on myself because other people are

being hard on me for being hard on

myself. So I'm taking that like I'm

interpreting my hardness on myself

through a lens.

>> Yeah. So so

>> I don't know if that's

>> So So I mean I I I I think the there are

a couple of things here. There are a

couple of different themes. So one one

thing that I want to point out I think

this may may hopefully help you. We'll

see. But I I I was struck by how much So

you did something really interesting. So

up until about maybe 5 7 minutes ago,

you were talking about your internal

experience

and then you made a shift to how other

people perceive you.

So So like even when we were talking

about being hard on yourself, that was

not coming from the inside. So when you

were talking about

the cost of being hard on yourself, you

were looking at yourself from the

outside. you are making sort of this

like you're you're doing a replay

analysis. You're not in the game and

you're making you're doing a replay

analysis and you're saying okay when you

are hard on yourself it does not help.

Therefore I should not be hard on

yourself hard on myself. Does that kind

of make sense?

>> Yeah, I see what you're saying.

>> And you were also talking about well

well it started with this statement when

you said when people look at me it's

obvious to them that I am XXX. And then

I was like, "Hold on a second. It's

obvious to them, but what's it like for

you?" Right? So, what what are you

perceiving that other people It's so

clear to everybody else, but in your

head, it's different.

And I think one of the biggest things to

understand is that you're hard on

yourself for a very good reason. This

even though it causes you suffering,

it is like critical to the way that you

function.

Does that make sense?

So, what do you do

when people who support you,

like it's not just like haters and

stuff, too. It's like people really

close to me in my life. It's people who

are part of my community that are

definitely wanting what's best for me.

What do you do when they're hard on you

for being hard on yourself?

>> I I think that's not We'll go there

later. So what the way that you deal

with other people is not nearly as

powerful as the way that you deal with

yourself,

>> right? So when someone is hard on me,

that's the most important variable to

deal with that is the way that I am with

myself. So if someone is like mean or

abusive to me, it is my confidence or

lack of confidence, my sense of

selfworth or lack of selfworth that is

going to determine someone else's impact

on me.

So, I I would say we'll get there, but

let's start with you.

>> I can probably jump the gun. Yeah.

>> No, you're not jumping the gun. I think

it it it it's it it's the way that you

think about it, right? So, your mind

doesn't go to I need to change the way

that I talk to myself. It's like your

mind goes to how do I deal with the

people who are hard on me for being when

I'm hard on myself? Like, what do I do

about that? Which is very adaptive. So

that's your big thing is you're very

adaptive. You you're always learning,

always growing, always improving.

Whether you're a coach, whether you're

an analyst, whether you're a

professional player, whether you're a

boyfriend, whether you're a community

leader, whether you're a manager, right?

So, and and this is where I think like

let's go, if you're okay with it, like

let's go back to the way that you talk

to yourself in your head and the

standard that you hold yourself to

because I think all this stuff about

>> throwing in the towel

You throw in the towel because you don't

live up to your standard. You practice a

hundred times when you're going to the

coffee shop and the moment that a

non-Dutch accent comes out, you're like,

"Fuck it. If I can't live up to the

standard, you you'd rather you don't

want to get a 90." You'd rather go from

if it's not 100, you'd rather have it be

zero.

>> Yeah, I see that.

>> Right. And this is where when we get

back to puer, this is why you you do a

lot of things halfass.

Not halfass. Half ass isn't really

right. That's not fair. But

>> I quickly give up, I think, is the more

>> right. And and that's also why you kind

of hedge because it's like then you sort

of have reasons to

drop down to zero. Like it's like not

your fault when things don't go well

because you're doing too many things. So

you even create internal excuses for

yourself.

>> I do. Yeah.

>> Right. And and and that's where we get

back to, you know, oh yeah, like the

reason I lost this game is because my

midf.

So I I think I think this really starts

with the way that you talk to yourself

and the standard that you hold yourself

to.

And one question that I have is what is

the standard that you hold yourself to?

What do you expect from yourself? Brian,

>> give me a second. I had to think about

that one.

I feel like

I want to say that I expect myself to do

the best I can in that given scenario,

but that's not how I talk to myself. I

feel like I talk to myself with

expectation of frustration or uh

perfection. I mean,

>> yeah. So, that's really good. So, you

have a you have an interesting problem,

which is that you've like

layered on all this self-help,

positive, adaptive, cognitive reframing

on top of the way that you really feel.

And you did a really good job there of

saying, "This is what I think I this is

what I try to tell myself." Right? I

don't know if this makes sense. There's

like an upper cognition that comes from

your cortices, which is what you should

say, and you're trying to program

yourself deeper down. Does that make

sense?

>> Yeah, I understand.

>> Right. So, like you're telling yourself

things like, "Oh, this is not helpful.

Stop doing it." And you're trying to get

yourself to like stop thinking that way.

What is that thing from down here?

That's the perfection. You expect

perfection from yourself. Why?

That's a hard question to answer and I

can ask it in a couple of different

ways. Right. Maybe let me ask you an

easier one.

When did you start per expecting

perfection from yourself? Do you

remember?

Very long time ago. So

what makes perfection so important to

you?

Why can't you be less than perfect?

>> Oh, give me a second. I know the answer

to your question. I think I was enga

ingrained with an idea that

the more perfect I was, the more my dad

would love me.

That'll do it, man. Yeah, that's kind of

[ __ ] huh?

>> I mean, I think that's life.

And I I I know that's a weird thing to

say, but but even that there's a subtle

value judgment there of like

that's kind of f I mean I I I don't like

it's Yeah, obviously, but also like

you're not [ __ ] And sometimes that

happens to people and life isn't

perfect.

And it's sad for sure.

Do you want to say more about that? Like

like what how did you learn that? I mean

because it it sounds like we you know

that answer was in you and you kind of

knew it

and so I'm guessing you've thought about

it before. Does a particular story come

to mind or something that you feel like

letting out? I mean, in this regard, my

childhood is is hazy in the sense that

it's not as much like a specific

>> story as it is like this idea that if I

finished a basketball game and I was the

best player in the game, like meaning I

had a really good game or something, I

would be reminded of like the two free

throws that I missed or the

there was no such thing as like

celebrating the eight free throws that I

won that I made. It was like you made

eight out of 10. let's talk about how

you could have made the the other two.

And that was like almost immediately

after the game. It was never it wasn't

like something like in practice the next

day or or something like that. And I

know my dad was raised in a family that

was a lot about appearances.

And

there there was a lot of elements to

this

growing up in Scottsdale that it's not

just like my dad. It's like an entire

culture of

a lot of parents that want their that

view their kids as a reflection of

themselves. And it's the kids'

responsibility to

do them proud because if you do anything

wrong, it makes them look bad basically.

And yeah, I mean it just I feel like my

I what was taught to me is it doesn't

matter if you're perfect. It only

matters if you look like it.

Are you proud of yourself?

>> Am I proud of myself?

>> Mhm.

>> Just like in the general sense like

right now or

>> Sure.

>> like

Sure.

Um yeah, I've had moments where

I'll just say, yeah, I've felt proud of

myself. I I feel like I've

And why is that such a hard question?

>> So, I'll ask you another one cuz now

we're we're going high ground and so we

got to we can't let you can't let the

enemy respawn.

>> So,

>> how

how hard have you had to work to be

proud of yourself?

cuz I'm I'm getting the sense that

you have to do a lot of work. Like you

deserve to be proud of yourself and you

can look at your life and you can look

at your relationship, you're moving in

when you when you really when you really

quiet some of those voices inside, you

can you can see that you have a lot to

be proud of. And I think you do

genuinely feel that pride, but I think

you have to work really hard to get

there. and that there's some there's a

voice inside you that you really have to

overcome almost on a case-byase basis

in order to recall that pride that the

pride doesn't live with you. It has to

be recalled.

>> Yeah, I'd say that's accurate,

>> right? So, you can look at your life and

you can say once again from the top down

that you have a lot to be proud of. And

I I know you feel that way. I I don't

think you could be as inspiring as you

are.

And and hopefully that doesn't trigger

all kinds of, you know, paternal

transference and and here I am an older,

wiser dude telling you that you're

inspiring. So maybe that'll bring up

stuff for you. But but I I really think

you are. I mean, I I I love watching

your YouTube channel. You're basically

the the main YouTuber related to Dota

that I watch. And I think there's a lot

of good stuff there. And I think you

recognize that, right? I mean, you're

you're good and there's a lot of

authenticity. You can't be as positive

as you are in a [ __ ] game like Dota

without having some some real, you know,

authentic, inspiring energy.

But there's like this

like monster in the basement that you

have to work really hard to push it back

down. And that's this hurt, I guess,

related to your dad. We can get into it

more.

But does that resonate with you?

Yeah. I mean,

my immediate thought is I'm like, I

don't feel like we're sticking on topic.

That's like that's like my my immediate

thought. Um, you're correct.

>> Yeah. I uh I mean I had actually no

idea.

>> It's not that this is a problem. I I

guess in my head like there is that

thing of like

>> I do have a tendency to worry that I'm

like

that I didn't set accurate expectations

for like what this is going to be or

whatever. But I also didn't have any

expectations for what this was going to

be. I didn't know. So um

>> you want to know why we're not sticking

on topic?

>> Why? cuz you're past poo, bro.

I don't think it's as relevant as as it

is when you DM'd me like five months ago

or whatever.

And there's there's still there's still

stuff to grow, but I mean I I think like

you you you you moved in with your

girlfriend. You conquered it in some

areas. You took the plunge. I I think

you're and not not that it doesn't still

exist and and stuff like that, but I I

think you're you're past it. That's not

where you are now.

And and it's where you were when you

DM'd me a few months ago. Absolutely.

But like you've come a long way since

then.

>> Yeah, I guess that's that's certainly

true.

>> You look climbed out of Crusader, bro.

>> Yeah. I uh

>> and

I'm not I'm not saying you don't have

challenges and that you know there's

>> No, I'm not taking it that way. I'm not

taking it that way.

>> You know, I I think this is

>> Yeah. Sorry. I spent a lot of time

thinking about that video and like what

it said and like it's

I guess for me I I know when you made

the video that it was like

I remember you saying something like

maybe it was in the follow-up or

something but it was like I'm going to

lose like half of you, you know, and

that's okay. like um

it's funny because ever since I've been

trying to coach in a different way,

I

how do I word this? I've been afraid to

lose people who I'm coaching. Like I'm

afraid that I'm going to give tell them

something they don't want to hear. like

I'm afraid to say basically what you

just what I said you said which is I'm

gonna like lose half of you. Um,

and then I've also

I guess

I've had moments where I,

you know, I I consciously knew that the

way I was changing what I was changing

about myself like distanced myself

from the average highle Dota player.

like the way that basically all the

people who I surrounded myself with

think. Uh,

and I knew that I was consciously making

a life shift effectively taking the

plunge

in a different direction. Um, and yet

every I kind of like I said I had like

my friendship group implode or whatever

that that had nothing to do with Dota.

That was completely outside of Dota. But

within Dota, I feel like like the other

than maybe one or two people, I feel

like the wedge has grown wider

gradually, very fast actually in the

last few months where it's not like

they're enemies or something. They're

just uh I don't feel I don't feel like I

like belong anymore. Uh I guess these

these are the type of struggles I've

been dealing with lately is because my

life has shifted so fast that I

It's like I know what I'm do. Like I I I

I feel very good in my relationship and

I feel very good in my

like the decision. Like I feel very like

it's like this was the right decision

for me with what I've done with my job.

But I

I feel very lonely I think would be the

I don't know if it's like this for you

at all in the sense that when you do

your

videos and stuff and the community, it's

like I I guess how what I'm trying to

say is the more I've learned, I feel

like I

I'm less understood by the people that I

interact with regularly

>> um like in my stream and stuff. And I

don't really know what to do with that.

like it it's very it's very unpleasant

and I feel very lonely and I don't know

what to I never I've never actually said

that out loud like I've never said I'm

lonely

because it also feels counterintuitive

to say that I feel lonely when

I feel very happy in my relationship

doing some heavy lifting today my friend

does that mean just I mean this is a lot

of work like this is like heavy stuff.

It's it's cognitively intense. It's

emotionally intense. It's vulnerable.

It's you know it's it's not like a we're

not playing some like you know custom

game in Dota. This is like highlevel

you know this is high level work. I mean

you're you're doing a lot.

>> So let's unpack a couple things. So one

is that I so you feel disconnected from

your crowd right?

>> Yeah. So I I think there are two two

things going on here.

One is that you know so you have this

part of you that wants to be perfect

and and this is not about and sure it's

it makes you feel unpleasant but let's

understand this okay the unpleasantness.

So if you want to be perfect

and you beat yourself up for not being

perfect,

how do you feel good about yourself?

What relieves your suffering?

>> To figure out a way to be better next

time.

>> Perfect. Right. And and like let's think

about that for a second. How awesome of

a motivational system when we motivate

ourselves through suffering and

self-induced pain. That's way better

than like giving ourselves a pat on the

back, right? Because if you give

yourself a pat on the back, like you'll

stop at five out of 10, six out of 10,

seven out of 10. But but that

self-punishment is really what pushes

you and and it really sounds like you

have internalized this thing, right? So

you learned really really early on that

eight out of 10 free throws is not good

enough. And like you said, I mean, this

is beautiful. It's not even practice the

next day. It's like immediately after

the game after you've won and you're the

number one player and you're like, you

know, you're getting told how could you

be better,

right? So, what do you have to do to

make this man happy?

And that may bring up lots of feelings

and stuff because it's, you know, we

haven't talked about I imagine I I hope

you loved your dad and he loved you and

this was, you know, sometimes we that

can exist with some of this

psychological pressure and and some of

this personality shaping and things like

that.

>> I mean, I I absolutely know with

confidence that my dad did his best to

love me. like I know he did love me and

or he does love me and that he

>> that everything he did was an attempt to

show his love for me cuz I and I think a

lot of it was just misguided.

Um but like I I hear it all the time

sort of thing like there are people who

feel like their parents kind of threw in

the towel or didn't really care about

them. It's like the one thing I know for

sure is he cared. Like I know for a fact

he cared.

>> Um I also know that like

>> you know the age-old saying of like love

isn't always enough like you know

whether it's in a relationship or

whether it's in a parent or father son

thing like it you know there's a lot of

things that I

I guess like I I at one point and this

is like a few years ago I'm like yeah I

have daddy issues. I realize I have

daddy issues and

and

I I I feel like I laugh at that because

it's like such a weird

I don't know stereotype taboo. I don't I

don't know like cliche actually. Yeah,

cliche.

>> Um

>> is is your dad still alive?

>> Yeah, he Yeah, he's still alive. I don't

see him very often though because uh I

live here in the Netherlands and he

lives in Arizona. So um I feel like in

in a I mean what happened was in my in

my early 20s just I guess relevant is

that there was a period of time where I

got my perfectionism crashed because in

college I was no longer able to be the

best at most of the things I was doing.

I actually confessed to this earlier on

one of my streams. I told people like my

idea of competitive competitiveness has

shifted drastically in like the last

month. And it used to be that I viewed

competition as a way to prove that I was

better than other people and to prove

that I was perfect. And now it's like

it's a chance for me to mutually improve

with somebody else. Like that's how I've

shifted competitiveness.

But in my early 20s, I got really

depressed. I did the drop out of college

or not drop out of college. I was about

to fail out of college and then

um at the time my dad said, "Just come

home. I'll take care of you." And I

said, "No, that's not what I want. I

want to push through it. I want to like

figure it out."

And because of that entire uh back and

forth, I didn't talk to him for about a

year and a half. I said like, "You don't

you you're you don't understand me.

You're trying to force things that I

don't want." And uh and uh I think to

this day I know because a year and a

half after approximately

he said I don't know what happened

between us but I want to have a

relationship with my son. Like that's

what he said. He's like I love you. I

want to have a relationship with my son.

And

so it's like my one takeaway from that

was he still does not know like

what happened, you know, like he

uh I don't know if I could ever tell him

either. Um

I mean I feel like I tried actually a

few times like in the last two or three

years. I feel like I actually tried a

few times.

What happened?

It seemed like anytime it became about

our relationship, it became like if it

was about just me or like struggles I

was going through that

um he seemed to listen. But the second I

feel like that it went about our

relationship,

it was kind of like uh

I remember exactly what he said, but it

was like, you know, we don't need to

have this conversation. It's okay, man.

like we're good kind of response

if you know what I mean. I don't know if

it's clear or what I mean.

>> Yeah, I think it's clear. I mean,

>> do you

>> Yeah, it felt like I couldn't keep

talking about it basically.

>> Do you blame your dad?

>> I wouldn't say I blame him. No,

>> I think you should try.

That's a weird thing to say.

>> Yeah, it is. We don't do it very often.

>> Who's we and what do they don't do?

>> Uh, society.

So it it's hard for us

to hold in ourselves at the same time

that we love and appreciate our parents,

that we're grateful for them. And

sometimes they [ __ ] up colossally.

And and sure, it was misguided love.

Sure, it was caring the way that he knew

best. But when you've got a shitty

player on your team in Dota and they go

0 and6 in mid and it ruins the game,

it's like, sure, they're doing the best

that they can, but your game is still

[ __ ] and that's still going to be an L

when you're done in minus 25 MMR. That

doesn't change,

>> right? And this is what happened. So,

I'm going to get a little bit

theoretical for a second. I I I I'm

feeling like maybe this is enough

emotional for one day. Sure. Um, you

know, we don't we don't want to there's

a there's a certain pacing to this stuff

and I think you've done awesome. You've

done a lot of heavy lifting today.

But but I I I think it's kind of weird.

So, you know, Freud said

depression is when anger gets turned

inwardly.

And I I know we haven't talked so much

about depression, but I think that when

we have this perfectionism

and this kind of like

you're brutal with yourself. Like you

hold yourself to a really really high

standard and that adaptively is very

good, right? Because even if you get

nine out of 10, you're still beating

yourself up. Which means that the only

way you will ever feel like relief and

it's not even peace, it's relief, right?

It's like an absence of pain is to get

10 out of 10. And that serves you very

well. It serves I mean that's why we do

these things. So the things that we do

to oursel in our head, sure, when we

look at it from the top down, we're

like, "Oh, I shouldn't do this and it

doesn't help." But that's not true. One

thing we have to understand about human

biology and the human mind is that

everything that we have, everything that

we do serves a function. When you talk

about perfection, this is not like a

unique thing to you. This is something

that tons of people struggle with, which

means that it has an evolutionary like

reason for it.

And as you also, you know, have

realized, it's not always helpful and it

causes certain problems. But th this

self-lame that you have, this is where

we get a bit academic.

When we don't put blame where it

belongs, it ends up with us. And I, you

know, I I know some of your relationship

history, and I think you know what

that's like, right? When you don't blame

the people who deserve the blame, when

people don't take responsibility for

their part, you end up carrying that

negative weight.

And if we look at the way that your dad

left you, and it's not it's not just

him, and there's all kinds of other

factors here, right? It's not like he

[ __ ] you up or anything like that.

Like, you have a lot to be proud of. You

have a life that many people would envy.

And I I do get a lot of genuine

gratitude from you about where you are.

So, your dad did a great job and he kind

of like

missed the boat in one or two places.

And if you don't blame him, like I don't

know if this kind of makes sense. Like

if my mid feeds 0 and6 and I blame

myself for the loss,

there is no amount of correction that I

can do to compensate for that. Does that

make sense? I mean, you've done coaching

on pro teams and stuff like that. And

when we scape someone, scapegoat someone

who's not making mistakes, like the team

is never going to improve.

>> I've seen that, too.

>> Yeah.

>> And the reason that I say I think you

should try is because I've just seen it

too many times. This is more as a

psychiatrist where, you know, one of the

when I have patients who have

depression, one of the most important

things that we'll we'll consider doing

is, you know, really blaming your

parents. And that doesn't mean that and

here's the key thing

you can't forgive if you never blame.

And so you this just lingers like it ju

it just stays nebulous. Like if we never

admit that there was a problem then we

can never forgive and move past it. It's

like does that kind of make sense? Like

it's that's

>> I get so I I get everything you're

saying like I followed you so far and

the screaming question in my head and

this might be like the wrong question or

whatever but it's like what does it even

mean to blame him? Like what does that

look like? Like what do I say to myself

or what do I say out loud or

like what is this? In my head it maybe

it's supposed to be obvious or something

but I'm like I don't even know what I'm

supposed to do with that. Like try

blaming him, you know? No, it's it's

it's a great question and and let me ask

you this, Brian. Here's one that I think

may be easier to answer. Why do you

think that is so hard for you to even

conceptualize?

I guess currently I've really embraced

this idea that

nothing is anyone's fault, but it's more

like I can just ask myself what part I

played in this and sometimes it's

nothing.

>> Okay.

>> Sometimes that part is nothing.

>> All right. So,

okay,

you've adopted this idea that nothing is

anyone's fault, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Like meaning like for me it's more like

fault implies

like the the the connotation of fault is

that

It solely rests on this person that this

thing happened

when I ah man how do I actually say

this? I guess what I'm trying to say is

to me in my head fault is kind of like a

black and white thing. Like it's like

this person's fault. And I feel like a

lot of people use that as a way to

shed any responsibility

also shed their own awareness of how

they ended up in this situation in the

first place. Like I think for me by

blaming others I would shed the

responsibility of like or the

questioning and the curiosity of like

like why am I in this relationship? like

in the first place.

>> Okay. So,

hold. Can I think for a second?

>> Yeah.

>> So, my first thought that I have is

if this does see the light of day, I'm

super curious what people would

understand at this point. If they can

see what I see, I don't know if it's

obvious or not. So, I don't know if this

is like really hard to perceive or it's

just really hard for you. It's It's

really difficult for you to perceive or

it's like clear as day. I'm so curious

about that. But let's start with this.

When your dad when you when you were the

top scorer on the team and you got eight

out of 10 free throws and your dad the

game ends, everyone's cheering. Your dad

comes up to you and he's like, "Bro,

let's talk about the two that you

missed." How did you feel and what did

you do in your head in that moment? Do

you I know you don't remember that

particular instance, but do you have a

sense of what you did?

>> I think as a kid I internalized it for

the next game like my head like

I mean what I did in the exact moment. I

mean it didn't feel good. I could say

that much. The long-term effect was me

being afraid like messing up in the game

meant that like I would get that at the

end of the game like I couldn't enjoy

the game if

I messed up.

>> Did you Did you see what other dads did

with other kids?

>> You mind if I quickly tell a story?

>> Sure.

>> So, I had a college track coach who was

pretty similar to my dad. He was pretty

rutal uh when it came to

I remember

this is when I was like on the verge of

depression. Like I was kind of on the

down I was on the downhill at this

point.

This is the immediate story that came in

my head. Um

and there was a 4x400 meter race. That

was the the race I ran was 400 meter.

And my best time I ever ran was in high

school. Like I didn't quite match it

when I was in college. Um, and I was the

final leg of the 4x4 in this uh in this

meet and I got the baton handed to me

and I was like 5 to 10 meters behind the

person in front and long story short I

slowly closed the gap and I basically

went neck and neck with them with like

50 meters to go. Like I on the on the

rounding corner, I like caught up to

them and I was like neck and neck and I

lost by like a hundth of a second. Like

I I I started 5 to 10 meters behind them

and I lost by a hundth of a second. And

my coach at the time said something

along I it's like I don't remember

exactly but said something along the

lines of

you did all that just to lose

and

I remember this random guy like that was

one of like the officials at the event.

Okay. like I never met him before came

up to me and said,

"Be proud of yourself, son. That was

like one of the finest runs I've seen in

a long time. Like that was awesome." Or

something like that. And I remember like

crying. Like I literally cried when

when that random ass [ __ ] guy said

that to me. So yeah, I mean I guess when

you ask what did other dads do? It's

like I don't have

Maybe I just shut it out eventually.

Like I don't know. Like I don't have any

clear memories in my head of what other

dads did, but I have an idea of what

they did. You know, some some degree of

what that random official guy did at the

at the race.

One thing I've noticed in the last like

six months is that

I'm never ready for when I'm going to

like tear up. Like I don't expect it.

I'm like, I'll just tell this story now.

>> Yeah.

>> And and then

>> what?

>> Yeah. I mean I hit sorry

>> no no no go when you shared that story

do you know what you're feeling right

now

>> I mean I feel a degree of relief having

shared that story

I mean I was feeling sadness and relief

I guess were the two

>> things I would say

>> what are you sad about

>> I mean I think it's the same as when you

cry seeing like a really sad movie. Like

I'm sad for

the Brian that I'm talking about.

>> Yeah. Right. That's like quite tragic.

Like it's it's one thing to be a grown

man who's in a healthy relationship with

a successful career, but it's another

thing to be like a 20-year-old kid, a

10-year-old kid.

I mean, I asked you about what other

dads did and this is where you went.

And I I this is why I was like I'm

wondering whether if anyone sees this

this is going to be clear, right? But

that's that's the thing that your dad

never did.

And that's like the most basic thing

that a dad is supposed to do. And like

to be an 8-year-old kid and like not get

that,

right? And I I know you don't remember,

but I imagine you felt angry. I imagine

you felt like, why don't you know, this

kid is not even the top score and his

dad is taking him out for ice cream.

Like, why don't I get that?

What do I have to do to get that from

you? And so I I think when when blaming

him,

right? So, so I want you to think about

your younger self

and if if you as a grown man could go

back

and talk to your dad, right? So, if you

saw like 8-year-old you at the end of a

a basketball game and your dad comes up

to you and says says what he normally

says, what would you do? Put yourself in

this random stranger's shoes, right? And

I think that's why it's so powerful.

What would you say to your dad?

What would you say to your son when he's

the top scorer and he scores eight out

of 10 free throws?

I just say some version of I'm proud of

you and well play like that was a well

like a hard played game or something

like that.

And what would you say to your dad

>> if I was like a stranger standing up for

kid or?

>> Yeah.

>> If you were you, if I transported you

back in time and you were at this game,

what would you say?

I say something like, "Don't be so hard

on him."

Why not?

What is it doing, Tim?

taking the joy out of life.

>> What else?

>> Let's say making him anxious.

>> What What is he What is he signing this

child up for?

Right.

>> When you're

>> You're a failure. I don't I'm not sure

exactly where you're going.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I and so this is

maybe the the limit right but I'm I'm

sort of thinking what I what I'm what I

see remember earlier when I said like

you have to work to be proud

>> you know you have to do a lot up here

like that's what you're

>> it's like a curse

>> and I know there's like black and

whiteness and there's fault and we'll

we'll get to that in a second but like

let's just understand right what impact

this has had it's multiffactorial it's

not just you know and and your dad did

the best that he knew how to do, which

is okay, you know, but let's let's not

So, I think the reason it's hard for you

to now tie a couple of things together,

and I I know we said we were done, but I

think that needed to needed to happen.

So, I I I think the reason it's hard for

you to blame your dad is because you've

worked really really hard. You've

programmed yourself not to like ever

since you were a kid, right? You do

these weird mental gymnastics of like

placing the blame on yourself.

You do this really weird thing where you

sort of think about responsibility is

black and white and you always shift the

blame to yourself. And that's why it's

hard when you say, "I don't even know

how to do that." Right? So, and that's

because you've programmed yourself to

not do that. And you'll even come up

with these super complicated, highly

intellectual structures about black and

white and blame and fault and now I

don't blame anyone. Like I don't know if

this makes sense. This is probably a

stretch and you know this is just cuz

time and and things like that. But like

your inability to blame your dad has

turned into some super complex structure

about how you never hold anyone at

fault. Does that kind of make sense?

Like if we start with this really basic

primitive lack of blame and then we grow

for years and years and years into a

capable adult who's adaptive and

resilient and cognitive re reframing,

you end up with this weird structure of

like all or nothing blame, which makes

no sense whatsoever

and also like this weird like adaptive

resilience which is a really powerful

story. And I think it's really I mean

it's not surprising to anyone who may

watch this

like why you went to that story, right?

Even if you go back and watch this

because that's what your dad didn't do.

That was the one time in in your life

where you got what you were craving

and this stranger saw in you what your

dad failed to see.

And the goal here is not to demonize

your dad. I don't blame your like blame

your dad in the sense that yeah, he did

the best that he could do. That doesn't

that doesn't prevent the damage that

you're left with.

And and and this is where I think

healing and forgiveness really come into

play because unless you acknowledge that

unless you acknowledge the truth of the

situation, there's no chance to heal,

you know. And and when your dad was

like, "Hey, I want a relationship with

my son." that you loved that, you craved

that, and you hated it,

you were angry at him.

Yeah, it's true,

right? Cuz here he is

telling you he wants a relationship,

but the guy will not say he's proud of

you. The guy doesn't understand. What

are you angry at him for? Cuz he doesn't

understand what it was like. He's like,

"Just come back. I'll make it okay."

You're like, "You don't understand." He

also didn't understand what it was like

when you got eight out of 10 free throws

were the top scoreer. You wanted him to

understand then, too. That you felt

proud of yourself,

not what you signed up for today.

>> Yeah. I did not at all remotely imagine

this conversation going this direction.

>> I mean, neither did I. But like I said,

I I I I think you're done with Puerto

Bro. I mean, sure, it'll linger and

it'll have some echoes and some neuronal

programming is there, but

you've you've really taken the plunge. I

mean, you've you've I I don't I don't

think that's where you are now. Now,

we're at a different we're at a deeper

level of healing and and other kinds of

things. Like, this is where it's like

the deep work, man.

And like like once you do this work and

you're already doing it, it's it's

started. There's no you don't have to do

anything. If you want concrete stuff, I

think having a conversation with your

dad one day is like a really important

possibility. Not saying you need to. It

sounds like he's not really has

difficulty handling it. It can be

something is Has your dad ever said he's

proud of you.

>> Not that I recall.

>> Like that's kind of [ __ ] right?

>> Yeah. It's funny. my well it's not funny

but

>> my

>> um

>> I don't remember what the context was

but sometime recently I think it was

when she was here my my mom told me or

no it was on the phone it was on the

phone it was like 3 weeks before my mom

visited so it was like a month and a

half ago that kind of out of the blue

she just said how proud she was of me

and I just started sobbing

like almost out of the blue

and I guess I didn't really look

inward

to know why that I started crying so

much.

And I guess I have a better idea of

what exactly was happening there.

And I my mom was very supportive. Like

>> I I can say with 100% certainty my mom

said she was proud of me many times.

>> Yeah.

So, it's interesting to me that

I know she's said that before, but yet

this time around it was like,

you know, water works the second that

she said it to me on the phone. Does

that imply that like that I'm starving

for being proud of myself? Like, is that

what that means?

>> I mean, I mean, in in a sense, yes.

Like, that's the basic issue here,

right? So like this perfectionism and

the brutality with which you and these

are your words, okay? You know, when I I

asked one thing and then you said,

"Well, it's because I had to be perfect

to get my dad to love me or or something

like that." Those are your words.

>> So here's how I understand it. So like,

you know, when I said you're done with

Puer,

>> I here's how I understand it.

Um, so I I think you really have grown.

Like you've like seriously leveled up.

Like you you ranked up. You're like

divine. like you con I mean not

conquered but you know and so what's

happening is as you like fix problems

like you go like deeper into the core

and so like like the stuff that came up

today it I mean that's not I I didn't

want to go there right that that's where

you are

like this is where you are now which is

why I think it it makes I mean this

that's the hypothesis that's how this

stuff works but another supporting point

for that hypothesis is that your mom has

told you she's proud of you a million

times. I thought it was really

interesting that when you talked about

Disneyland, by the way, flagged it. You

know, you said, "I have good memories

with my mom." And I went with my mom and

my question was like, "Where was that?"

You know, so that's a conversation for a

different day. But it's just interesting

that when you when you talk about when

you spontaneously talk about the

positive memories that you want to try

to recreate,

it's like a memory about mom. So right

there, I know she's told you that she's

proud of you. like that's you know this

is not mom but now that you're going

deeper into the core to these as as you

like solve these problems like puer and

stuff like that I'm not saying it's 100%

solved but you know you you've taken the

plunge in a lot of ways that were hard

for you like maybe 5 years ago you were

doing five different things and now

you're doing like two things and you

know like you've got your first hundred

people and it's work that you find like

you're kind of you've improved past that

so now we get to the deeper stuff and So

since that's kind of where you were

>> now that that stuff is opening up

>> like those words will impact you in a

different kind of way,

>> right? And that's what that's what

you're bringing to this conversation

that I'm kind of picking up and and

following.

So I think that's just kind of where you

are now. And this is the kind of healing

that you need to do. And this is how

it's super cool. Like the body and the

mind know what needs to be healed.

It's super cool.

And there's like some of this other

stuff about like loneliness and things

like that. I I think it's that that's

because you are changing, Brian.