if you could do something that would

make you less depressed to be successful

wouldn't you want to take that drug

every day you got to tell me what it is

so it is Scott Galloway he's a public

speaker and author marketing professor

at NYU is a business World rock star I'm

not done yet the number of kids who see

their friends every day has been cut in

half in the last 10 years the knock on

effect here is that we're producing too

many of what is the most dangerous

person in the world and that is a young

brok and alone man

they get this illusion that they have

worth when they say angry misogynistic

content on social media they become just

really shitty citizens Andrew Tes a

self-described misogynist if a woman is

going out with a man she belongs to that

man is Andrew Tate's message a symptom

of what you've described 100% they're

out of [ __ ] control how would we go

about solving this problem

so life gets very hard very fast 25 to

45 and generally speaking these are the

least happy years and then something

wonderful happens you find joy in the

mundane as you get older and you get

happier so I think it's helpful just to

know that when you say something stupid

at a party when you say something unkind

and you're just beating yourself up you

need to forgive yourself and you need to

realize what feels important in the

moment isn't that important happiness

waits for you what are you still working

on I'm trying to slow time down time is

falling off a cliff for me but how does

one practically slow time down so that

30 years doesn't fly past I find that

you can slow time down by

before this episode begins I just want

to say a huge thank you to all of our

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without further Ado I'm Steven Bartlett

and this is the dire of a CEO I hope

nobody's listening but if you are then

please keep this to

[Music]

yourself

Scott give me your context what is the

necessary context that I'd have to

understand about you and your earliest

years to make sense of the person that

you went on to be in your

life wow that's a thoughtful question um

raised by a single immigrant mother

lived and died a

secretary uh lot of my life you know I

think the most important thing in

anyone's life is to have someone who's

rationally passionate about your

wellbeing and I had that and the second

thing is I was

born

in California in the 60s a white

heterosexual male which was like hitting

hitting a lottery uh I got access to

amazing free education I went to UCLA

and Berkeley for graduate and

undergraduate degrees total tuition

$77,000 and Not only was it accessible

financially it was accessible period the

admissions rate at UCLA when I applied

was 76% it's now

6% and I mention my uh sexuality because

my freshman roommate in college was born

a white homosexual male and was dead of

AIDS at the age of

33 so you know a lot of My Success

whether it was free education coming of

age during the internet age which was

incredible wind in your economic sales

you know a lot of My Success is not my

fault so the two things that I try and

remember to Define my start and it was

an amazing start were one uh you know

someone who was irrationally passionate

about my well-being and uh being born in

America and just being exceptionally

fortunate you mentioned your mother

there what about your father my dad uh

you know not a bad man he left us for

lack of a better term when I was eight

you know it was the 70s he started his

third marriage while he was still

married my mom uh neither my parents

very sophisticated uh uh they were both

pulled out of school at the age of 13 my

dad was a handsome Scott living in La

which means he not only thought with his

dick he could listen to it and uh so he

you know just really enjoyed himself for

lack of a better term which didn't foot

well to uh you know a family life uh so

he wasn't very involved in my life

growing up but I feel compelled to say

now that he's

92 every person's obligation from a

species level is to be a better father

or mother than their father or mother

was to them and he was definitely that

he was he grew up in terrible

circumstances and he always tried to do

the right thing but it was you know it

was me and my mom was it happy childhood

in your view it was entirely see you

were talking a little bit about your

childhood it was entirely unremarkable I

feel like on a scale of 10 100 100 being

the best childhood in the world one

being the worst in America at least I

was like a 50 it wasn't bad you know we

didn't have any we didn't have we were

upper lower middle class but it wasn't a

Saab story in America in the 70s you

could make you you could survive on a

secretary salary we took vacations I

didn't go to good schools but they were

bad schools I had friends but not a lot

of friends you know my high school

reunion was recently no one would

remember me my my childhood was

remarkably unremarkable it wasn't bad

it's not a sop story but it wasn't what

I would call great with a lot of support

and a lot of accouterments but again the

context of it is being at the median in

California in the 70s was like hitting

the lottery it was the highest median in

the world what was your relationship

like with money cuz I I remember reading

that that was um quite your relationship

with money and your your family's

relationship with money was quite

formative uh money very early had a big

impact on me because because you know

people say oh at the time having a

divorced mom felt like a little bit of a

not a Scarlet Letter but you were the

kid who lived with his mother but the

thing that was harder was we didn't have

any money I mean we weren't poor but you

know you apply to college and if you

didn't get into UCLA which I didn't get

in there were no options we didn't have

the confidence or the contacts or the

money to apply for me to apply to

college outside of school it was

stressful and but it was also in some

ways very motivating my mom got sick

when I was a young adult and I me being

the only child and some of those you

know instincts that a son feels for his

mother take over and when my mom got

sick I decided all right I I I remember

coming home one weekend she was very ill

and I remember thinking kind of like I'm

not doing my job as a man because I

don't have the money to take care of her

and that was really emasculating and

that's when I kind of got my [ __ ]

together I remember the moment it was

when I was in graduate school I was 26

and look I I decided very early and

people I think people who have achieved

some level of wealth aren't entirely

forthcoming or honest I think about

money a lot I was very focused on it um

I decided very early that I was going to

have Economic Security I did nothing but

pretty much work for 20 years I don't

remember much else but work it cost me

my hair it cost me my first marriage and

it was worth it is there a risk in that

that when we become so orientated by

money yep we I've said this I've had

this conversation with if you guess

about are we really driven or are we

being

dragged

and and how do we make sure we're not

being dragged so we can be intentional

about living lives in line with our

values yeah I'm not I'm not proposing

this is what the world should be I'm

proposing what it is in a capitalist

society and that is I think America I

just moved here so I don't know if

society's different here I have noticed

here that people ask you where you're

from in America they ask you what you do

but America becomes more like itself

every day and that it is a it is a kind

generous place if you have money it's a

rapacious violent place if you don't

have money and I figured that out very

very soon the way I saw it was that poor

people having an entirely different

experience with us Health Care system

than rich people um I just saw it as if

I want to have a life of opportunity of

prosperity selection set of mates even

love to be to be wealthy in America is

to be loved people find you interesting

they want to know you you have a broader

selection set of mates it is the

idolatry of the dollar and the impact

that wealth has on your life in America

is unfortunate and 100% true and it gets

more true every day and one of the

things I coach young people around is

you just have to figure out a way to

become economically viable I'm not

saying you need to do what I did and

work all the time and be very kind of

have a monocular focus on money which I

did I think there's a lot of people who

decide they're not going to live to work

they're going to work to live and they

move to a lower cost region they live

within their means and they have really

good lives I think that's a nice way to

live your life the majority of young

people I'm around by virtue of the fact

I teach at a business school expect to

not only be in the top 10% they expect

to be in the top 1% economically and so

what I encourage young people to do is

have a sober conversation what do you

where do you expect to be economically

and the majority of young people you

talk to expect to be in the top

1% and I don't know anyone who's gotten

there who didn't inherent money who

didn't sacrifice a lot you know what I

tell young people is you can't have it

all you just can't have it all at once

and I think in this competitive

environment to be great at

anything uh you not only need talent you

not only need luck you just need a

tremendous amount of grit and a

tremendous commitment there are some

people who are so talented that they can

have balance in their lives at a young

age and get Economic Security I think

you should assume you're not one of

those people and assume that like most

of us who have achieved some level of

Economic Security it's required a

significant tradeoff it came at a cost

it came at a cost of

relationships it came at a cost of

stress I mean it takes a toll but the

reason I have balance in my life right

now I have a lot of balance in my life

right now is because I didn't have very

much when I was your age when I was

young I mean you're an

entrepreneur it's hard to phone it in as

an entrepreneur it just requires a level

of people think we're just so we're

extraordinarily talented that we're just

blessed with some special skill I would

argue that you're you have more of a

risk appetite you're willing to endure

public failure because there's no

blaming anyone else when your business

you know crashes it's very public

failure and also more than anything you

have a natural instinct to be thinking

about the business all the time and

working at it most of the time that's

you know there there's a relationship

between intelligence and success but it

tops out at about 110 120 IQ it's better

to be smart you're more likely to be

successful if you're smart but the

difference between being smart and being

genius has no correlation between

success that's where grit and

perseverance and resilience take

over I want to continue that thread but

on one of the things you said at the

start of this conversation was about

your mother's she got sick mhm I read

that she you remember the day when you

realized that she was depressed yep how

did that shape your views on happiness

and fulfillment and depression and how

we how we ultimately end up in a

situation where we're suffering with

depression did did was that at all did

that influence your view on happiness

watching your mother be become depressed

yeah my mom was sincerely depr severely

depressed but I

remember um and that's one of the

wonderful things about our a liberal

arts uh education I took psychology and

they started talking about clinical

depression what it meant and I realized

that's what my mom was suffering from

and depression is sort of the cancer of

Our Generation and that is it used to be

CLA posited now people are openly

talking about it and it's really helpful

because I wish I'd known what my mom was

going through earlier because you

immediately you know we're a

narcissistic species you immedately

think it's something you've done it's

not about you usually it's about them

and also life isn't about what happens

to you it's about how you respond to

what happens to you and I think it's

very helpful when you recognize

depression and understand it and

recognizeing other people because what

you then realize is that when you're

feeling really down a lot of times it's

not your fault you may have stantial

reason to be depressed but you may not a

lot of it is about your Chemistry that

day and also to recognize that this twoo

shall pass that nothing a a say that's

been really important to me and it's one

of the few says that's always kind of

held its water for me is nothing is ever

as good or as bad as it seems when you

feel like you're killing it when you

feel like you're in top of the world

that's absolutely the time to bring in

your horns and be humble and grateful

and realize a lot of your success isn't

your fault you just got lucky and at the

same time when you're upset when you're

angry at yourself when you're depressed

when you feel like everything's just

black it's not that's that's temporary

and you it's comforting to know that

that will pass understanding that what

my mom was going through was external

that it wasn't because things are so bad

for us or so bad for her that this was a

chemical thing this was like catching a

cold that was really liberating and

helpful not only to manage the situation

in our household but to recognize when I

was down and also to recognize that I

was probably going to be more prone are

vulnerable to that type of

depression um but just being aware of

these things you know you're a young man

when I was a kid we didn't talk about

depression we used to call it a nervous

breakdown and it was a sign of weakness

and it only happened to women right they

were the weaker gender and they had

something called a nervous breakdown

that was what mental health that's what

Depression was called back then and then

slowly but surely people started to

acknowledge that it was a thing that it

was no different than any other type of

illness that it was treatable and that

it wasn't a sign of Shame so it was

really helpful for me it was it was uh

um you know liberating to kind of

understand it and realize that it wasn't

totally a function of our situation or

an indication of how good or bad things

were at the time one of the things you

talk about in your new book a drift um

is this decay of community in our lives

yeah and Community seems like such a

human thing yeah so I I when I read that

I thought maybe that's in part part of

the part of the cause or factor of why

we're seeing a lot of um unhappiness

depression and these things what's your

what's your take on that 100% um do you

have dogs I you have kids I do have have

a dog upstairs so look dogs just want to

be around other beings and mammals are a

social we're very social we you know

from a young age we suckle we're we just

want to my dogs lie on top of each other

I mean we're meant to be around each

other and whether it's in the US

enrollment and Boy and Girl Scouts is

off by like 40% Church attendance is way

down the the percentage of people who

speak to their neighbors is off like 40%

if you just think about covid we don't

go to the mall we don't go to the movie

theaters right we're becoming more and

more segregated by income class the

number of kids who see their friends

every day has been cut in half in the

last 10 years so we're just not touching

smelling and feeling each other nearly

as much and I think that's directly

correlated to happiness my youngest

really struggled with covid and we

always said well it's because he's not

in school because the schools were

closed for a while and I thought more

than school what my kid needs is other

kids and that is you know the you need

guard rails you need people around you I

think of those Japanese soldiers who

retreated into the hills of the

Philippines with orders to not give up

the island you know when the Japanese

rried from the Philippine islands in the

South Pacific they left behind some of

these uh

soldiers some of them were there for 20

or 30 years and they refused to give up

their commission until they would have

to find the the commanding officer take

them to the island and tell them come

down the war's been over for 25 years

these individuals accomplish nothing

they didn't grow spiritually phys

physically they didn't learn anything

they had nothing to share with anyone

after their 25 years years so being

alone is one of the worst things on an

extended basis that can happen to a

human and every day one of the worst

things that can happen to a human is

happening more and more to all of us in

Western society and it's especially

prevalent among kids the lack of

socialization and then this kind of

hyper socialization that takes place on

their phone which is really brutal and

has huge

externalities is I think one of the

biggest uh causes for the massive uptick

and depression among young people

so again I like to coach younger people

and might put yourself in a position

where you have to be around other people

every day building something in the

agency of something else whether it's a

job whether it's a

nonprofit whether it's Church whether

it's a sports League be in the agency of

others building something bigger than

all of you and it's a great way to make

friends mentors it's a great way to

learn how to read the room I joined a

fraternity when I went to UCLA when I

was 17 and people make a cartoon of

fraternity like we're all these terrible

people it was the best thing I could

have done I had no male role models

until the age of 17 my dad wasn't around

I didn't have many friends so being in a

place that shrunk a 30,000 person campus

down to a smaller thing I wouldn't have

graduated and it was hard for me these

my quote unquote forat brothers gave me

a hard time but it was really good for

me you know you you you you get in

better shape I I remember I remember my

roommates telling me to stop smoking so

much pot and go to class more I mean you

have people watching you 24 by7 I needed

that socialization uh so I think one of

the worst things that can happen to a

young adult is for them to be isolated

and we're increasingly isolated are you

optimistic about that that changing

because the direction of travel is in

one is in One Direction and then when

you hear things about

metaverses I'm not I think we have this

nihilistic I think technology is

nihilistic I think the most successful

person in the world at least monetarily

want wants to figure out a way to

inhabit another planet rather than Focus

his genius and his resources on making

this planet more habitable and I find

that nihilistic and uh people I I just

find it strange that the most talented

wealthiest people in the world want to

get us off the planet so and then you

think about social media just the trends

among young people there's an uptick and

travel but that's pent up Demand by uh a

class of people who have the money to

travel our socialization appears to have

taken a dramatic step change structural

step change down and I even see to my

kids they are thinking about getting

home to their phones and they're social

on their phones but it's not a

replacement for for personto person

contact um you know there's some good

things to it uh teen drunk driving

accidents are down teen pregnancy is way

down but the number of kids socializing

is way off I find it I think it's a I

think it's a terrible thing and I don't

see there'll be some uptick because CO's

over but it feels like there's been a

structural step change down because

people now want the dopa they get

trading on Robin Hood watching porn

watching

Netflix uh getting some sort of

socialization or need for affirmation by

the number of likes they get on Twitter

rather than leaving their house to get

that same type of dopa hit the number of

people playing in organized Sports is

way down so I'm not I think it's I think

it's a real problem and I don't see it

unless there's EX unless there's

recognition of it an external investment

whether it's youth clubs whether it's

after school programs whether it's some

sort of conscription or national service

which I'm a big fan of I don't see

structured means for people young people

to serve in the agency of something

bigger than themselves do you think

there's a decline decline in grit

amongst young people that this genz

generation in the in the Western World

when you think about your kids and the

and the grit they'll have you talked

about how important grit is to to

achieving economic viability um I was

talking to Simon cnic about this a

couple of weeks ago on this podcast

about whether genz are less res

resilient and hardworking than

Generations that have come before them

because of the influences I remember I

opened up Tik Tok the other day and it's

like it's showing I don't know whether

this was just the Tik Tok I saw I

remember one going viral on Twitter a

couple of weeks ago from San Francisco

showing the day in the the life of um a

jenzi working in in Tech and it's like

wake up go get the frapper Cher latte

whatever take the dog for a while

pottery

class 5 minutes on the laptop pottery

class yeah yoga um I worry about this a

lot with my kids because generally

speaking what happens is the

children of I I would say if I had what

my kids have I wouldn't have what I have

because I wasn't that motivated if I'd

grown up in the household I'm grow my

kids are growing up now the only two

things I know I would have had in my

life as a young man or a Range Rover in

a cocaine habit I just wasn't an absence

of money really motivated me and my kids

don't have that my kids have access to

everything they need and so trying to

figure out a way to instill Grid in your

kids whether it's chores or some level

of discipline I it's my I think it's my

biggest challenge as or our biggest

challenge as parents uh um but in terms

of the I work with and granted it's

selection B I work the kids I work with

I can't get over how extraordinarily

talented they are um so the meme of

quiet quitting and again it may be

proximity bias because of the kids I

draw or I I know in my firm but I find

that every year and I teach between

three and 500 kids a year in NYU every

year I find that the kids the young

adults are more talented and harder

working and more socially conscious sure

they're a little expectant some of it I

roll my eyes you know occasionally I'll

say someone say you know I I need to

leave and go to to pilates class and I

kind of laugh like I can't even imagine

saying that to my boss uh when I started

out but in general I find they're just

remarkable um and again it might be

because the kids I've been able to

attract but I don't buy this notion that

they're somehow entitled I don't I

haven't seen

that when you when you're teaching these

young people about and preparing them

mentally and with skills for the the

world that's to come MH what is a key

indicator that that young person become

a successful adult professional

entrepreneur business owner yeah I can't

speak to entrepreneur we're very data

driven so I ran I started ran a company

called L2 which was a business

intelligence firm we grew it to about

120 people and we sold it and we we were

very data driven and we used to you know

evaluate everybody every year and then

we would try and look for um

correlations and while it's dangerous to

do and no one wrote it down the

correlations we found that were the best

predictors of success at our firm were

few things one they went to a grade

school which you don't like to say but

most of our kids who are really really

strong had gone to what you would

consider Elite

universities uh two they were athletes

we found that um a background in sports

especially individual sports where it

was gymnastics or

diving uh that these people just brought

a certain level of discipline and grit

that some of the others didn't have and

the third is female uh they because we

had such a young firm uh a

disproportionate amount of our really

successful people were women and there's

a lot of studies showing now that women

just mature at an earlier age the net of

it for us was and you were scared to

write it down and I've sold the firm so

I can say it now if a woman from the El

gymnastics team showed up it was an

automatic higher and I don't think

that's anything unusual the uh that

groundbreaking

the you know I graduate from UCLA with a

2.27 GPA I don't know if you have grades

the value but basically I barely

graduated and I got a job at Morgan

Stanley right out of UCLA which was

considered a pretty prestigious firm and

it's because the guy who ran the

department had rode crew and I was an

orsman at UCLA and he said anyone who

Rose crew gets an automatic hire because

you're willing to kill yourself you can

push yourself harder than anyone uh so a

lot of these firms recognize that sports

are a forward looking indicator but some

of the other indicators you can't

control you know getting into an elite

University now is a function of being

the the son or of someone rich or being

freakishly remarkable kind of two

cohorts and then obviously you can't

control your sex but I have several

women in their early 20s working for me

who could be the junior Senator could be

the next ambassador to France and you

know a lot of the young men have a lot

of potential but you can just see they

just don't mature as

fast NYU what else are you teaching

these kids I call them kids that my age

but yeah I I well I mean it's mostly

principles of brand strategy and digital

Market marketing but I have a course uh

I have a session the the most popular

session is on I call the algebra of

happiness and I just go through sort of

basic best practices for success and

we've talked about some of them

realizing balance I think is a myth I

think the most important decision you'll

make in your 20s and 30s you know I

survey the class what's the most

important decision you'll make and they

usually say the industry you'll go into

where you decide to live the most

important decision you'll make is who

you decide to partner with specifically

have kids because you're in that

person's life for 20 years and I have a

lot of friends who are successful in

most exterior metrics but don't have a

real partner in their spouse and they

have what I would call a life full of

stress and disappointment on a regular

basis whereas I have friends who on an

external basis may not look as

successful but they have a real partner

and everything just burns brighter for

them so the most important decision

you'll make is is who you're fortunate

or not fortunate enough to partner with

and so what I suggest is that be as

aggressive as possible about creating as

many opportunities for Serendipity and

contact with people that your your

ability to punch above your weight class

and find someone of Great Character that

you're attracted to that you fit with is

a function of liquidity and that is

always accept invitations to dinner

parties uh I think young men should be

more aggressive I think young men have

been told in this environment that they

should uh be very careful about who they

approach and express interest in and I

think there is a huge difference between

expressing interest in a thoughtful way

and harassing someone and if you don't

know the difference you've got much

bigger problems but I encourage young

men to as uh general cogni or behavioral

therapy to force themselves when they're

in a line of coffee to talk to some the

guy or gal in front of them and behind

them because if you're interested in

someone there's nothing wrong with

asking them out to Coffee there's

nothing wrong with expressing

interest and I see a lot of young men

are not creating that types of

opportunities to meet people and

eventually find good friends find good

mentors and most importantly find a good

mate and so unfortunately marriage and

relationships are becoming another

luxury item marriage and pairing off

with a mate is plummeting among people

it's it's um correlated to your wealth

because middle inome and poor people

especially men are no longer are because

of online dating are no longer seen as

viable mates and they also don't have as

many opportunities to meet people in

person where things like smell and Vibe

and humor that are some of the magic and

mystery of why we're attracted to each

other but um what I tell them is create

as many opportunities as possible to

establish

relationships uh so it's give up balance

but if and when you can invest all of

your remaining energy and having as many

uh you know random contacts with people

as possible and also be aggressive talk

to people introduce yourself if you're

interested in someone if you want to

establish of friendship if you're

interested in someone romantically

Express that interest if if they're not

interested in you both of you are going

to be fine you can handle the rejection

or the small rejection they can handle

someone expressing interest and I think

in our age we've uh in a weird way uh

implicitly told young people especially

men they're not supposed to express that

interest what do you make of dating

apps well I think my advice to young

people would be to do it all you know

it's how people meet it used to be how

people made it if you will is that it

used to be a third work a third friends

and a third school now it's well above

50% online so the majority relationships

are beginning online for people your age

and it's very efficient but what happens

when technology comes into any sector is

it consolidates it it becomes the winner

take most market so whether

it's e-commerce social media search

engines once technology comes into it

you have one company that owns 50 % of

all online retail 2third of all social

and 93% of search so technology has come

to mating with dating

apps and it's created a win or take all

or win or take most dynamic which is

somewhat unhealthy and it it plays out

like something like this women are

interested in men based on three

criteria the first is their ability to

Signal resources the second is

intelligence and the third is kindness

it doesn't matter how rich or how smart

you are if you're an [ __ ] or you're

not kind people eventually don't want

you as a mate and unfortunately online

it's very difficult to Signal two and

three so you can signal one and when

everyone has access to everyone women

who have a much finer filter for mating

because the downside of sex is so much

greater for them if they get pregnant so

they have much finer filter they end up

all being drawn or expressing interest

to a much smaller group of individuals

so what the dynamic is you have 1550 men

on Tinder 15 women on Tinder 46 of the

women will Express all of their interest

to just four men which leaves 46 men

buying for the attention of just four

women so if you apply the genie

coefficient to online

dating it's got the same Genie

coefficient as income inequality in

Venezuela so mating inequality is

greater than income inequality in

Venezuela and what it leads to is what I

call Porsche polygamy and that is the

men who are able who are the top 10% in

terms of attractiveness online get 90%

of the interest so so that does not lead

to good behavior or establishing

long-term relationships kind of 50 to 90

percentile do okay but the bottom half

of attractiveness of men based on online

attractiveness are totally shut out of

the market and as a result in America

one in three males under the age of 30

has not had sex in the last 12

months and I find people hear the term

sex and their mind goes different places

I think of it as the key step to an

elemental Foundation of any society and

that is relationship so in the US what's

happened with online dating is it's

amazing for the top 10% of

attractiveness of men it's okay for the

top half it is a disaster for the bottom

half and when I say attractiveness I

mean by very crude metrics so if you're

Tinder profile I went to MIT I just

started a KKR and my Rolex accidentally

is visible in my profile picture and I'm

geolocated living in Manhattan or living

in uh Beverly Hills you're going to get

a massive amount of attention the bottom

half we not able to express anything

other than wealth which they may not

have are totally shut out on the market

and the knock on effect here is that

we're producing too many of what is the

most dangerous person in the world and

that is a young broken alone man uh so

the guy who attacks Salon Rashi uh

recently in the US that wasn't about the

fatwa that was about a young man living

in his mother's basement

when you hear about Mass Shooters in the

US you know who they are before you know

who they are so we are producing uh an

enormous cohort of economically and

emotionally nonviable men and I think

it's bad for society I think it creates

an existential risk for us I think women

as a result don't have as many find

there just aren't as many economically

or emot or emotionally viable men as

they would like women are graduating at

Double the rates of college as men now

for every one male graduate the next 5

years of college there's going to be two

women and you think well okay it's time

women it's time women leveled up they're

finally getting their due okay but the

this has just realized it has huge

societal impacts because women made

socioeconomically horizontally and up

men horizontally and down in some women

with college degrees typically aren't

interested in men without college

degrees so we're seeing less household

formation lower birth rates and these

things usually stunt an

economy uh so I think it's a big issue

uh and again I think it comes down to

providing more young more opportunity

for young people in general I think if

you had sort of gender specific

affirmative action towards men it would

just become so politicized and heed that

it wouldn't be worth it I think you need

a massive leveling up of all young

people that I think will

disproportionately help young men how do

we get those bottom 50% of young men

laid I think you need to make them first

and foremost more economically

viable um I think more job

opportunities I think it builds

confidence I think you need to get them

out of the house I think it's vocational

programs I think it's opportunities to

go to college or get some sort of

certification I think it's things as

basic as social service or more

opportunities for them to get together

Community yeah and I think it's a

certain amount of Education that uh

Embrace some of the things that are

wonderful be about being a man being

aggressive is fine be physically fit and

strong uh I think we're blessed with uh

and this is true of men and women I'm a

big fan I believe the afford looking

indicator of your success is the amount

of time you spend sweating versus

watching other people sweat any person

under the age of 30 man or woman should

be able to walk into any room and think

of [ __ ] God real I could kill and eat

everybody or outrun them one or the

other and it's not about being ripped

it's not about being skinny it's about

being a stronger version of yourself

you'll be happier less prone to

Depression more attractive to other

mates you'll be

kinder um because you feel more

confident so I think ex real phys

embracing physical fitness young people

have one thing that's terrible about

young people as they've gotten

unhealthier consistently the last 50

years um I think social service and I

think figuring out institutions and

means whether it's school or social

service so they can meet each other

develop friendships fall in love have

more

opportunities um to have not only make

relationships but have guard rails young

men need guard rails they need a

girlfriend a job to tell them no you

need to put on a shirt and get to work

no you can't get high and drunk every

night no if you want to continue to have

sex with me you need to get your [ __ ]

together I think that's really important

for a young man especially young men and

young women need it as well but just not

as much so I think what you have is a

generation of young men that have no

motivation no guardrails they get their

dopa hit of Addiction on Robin Hood they

don't have the Mojo to get out there and

meet women as much because they're

watching so much porn they get they get

this illusion that they have some sort

of Worth or affirmation when they say

angry things on social media that they

get rewarded for they become they start

blaming other people specifically they

start blaming women and they become much

more prone to misogynistic content they

start believing in conspiracy theory

they're less likely to believe in

climate change and some they become just

really shitty citizens and we're

producing just a massive amount of these

individuals and the scary part is we'll

just ignore the weirdo and put them in

the corner the problem is the government

does ignore them because we're very

misogynistic when it comes to our

elected leaders in the US we've been

producing more female college graduates

than male college graduates for the last

40 years but still only 28% of our

elected representatives are female

people societies men and women conflate

leadership quality with height and depth

of voice so we will always at least in

the US for a long time elect more men

and who do these men appeal to how do

they get elected they appeal to this

cohort of conspiracy driven misogynistic

anti-government men young men these

young men will always have over

representation in government which leads

to elected leaders saying that they

believe the elections are rigged that

that Stoke nationalist fears that blame

immigrants I mean really really hateful

stuff and so not only are these

individuals uh dangerous and

unproductive but what's even more

unproductive is they will have a

disproportionate voice in our politics

because the easiest way to get elected

is to tap into the tribal instincts or

motives of this of this cohort you said

misogynistic content there and um one of

the things that came to mind when you

said that was Andy Tate yeah are you

familiar with yeah this person yeah is

Andrew Tate's message a symptom of um

what you've described

100% you know we live look it's easy to

credit your grit and your character for

your successes and blame the markets for

your failure years and so when you have

a young man who is failing he's looking

for culprits and then you have someone

come along and say it's not your

fault and and they start saying that the

reason you can't find a date it's

women's fault it's their fault it's not

yours it's not that you haven't

developed the skills or demonstrated the

discipline to develop the attributes

that others find attractive it's their

fault and I think it's very um dangerous

and most of it's a Griff the individual

you represented claims it's not your

fault and but by my

4995 you know learn how to be successful

program it really is a grift um and

people you know Trump is sort of a a

version of that right I mean if you

think about what's happening in America

the Democratic party is basically

becoming the party of educated women and

the Republican party is becoming the

party of uneducated men so yeah I think

uh I think that those types of

individuals are perfect examples of

trapping of kind of falling into this

really

ugly you know uh blame others kind of uh

uh gestal in our society I think it's

very unfortunate I think we also on the

I I have no idea what your politics are

Steve I consider myself a progressive I

think progressives have to take back

masculinity and that is we have to

Define what masculinity means and show a

vision why are all the dudes these

conservatives so I mean I'll give you an

example I'm profane and vulgar person

and on the left they immediately

complain conflate I've cursed several

times on this show I talk about sex very

openly and very

crudely that doesn't mean I'm not that

doesn't mean I'm not a feminist doesn't

mean I don't have Progressive values so

I think the left needs to take back

profanity and vulgarity and I think we

need to take back

masculinity I I see masculinity as a

man-made societal construct but to we

need to identify it and then ask young

men to foot to those skills and I see it

as very basic in a very basic way

acquiring the skills and strength so you

can advocate for and protect others

whether it's physical strength mental

strength Financial strength kindness

intelligence and I think saying okay

it's great to be a man express your

masculinity and by the way masculinity

isn't just a domain of people who are

born men women can demonstrate masculine

features just as men can Dem demonstrate

feminine features but I think the left

are progressives need to take back this

notion of masculinity and we've sorted

we've sort of emasculated on the left

men because to be pran to even

acknowledge masculinity is somehow to be

anti-female on the left and that's not

true at all you know who wants more men

women or that's what I find so I think

that uh key to restoring balance if you

will and not having our party split

across gender lines and pull this

generation of failing young men out of

this hole is to redefine masculinity as

something more evolved more thoughtful

than involves intelligence that involves

kindness that involves strength but also

on the left to say it's okay to be a man

we can acknowledge our differences it's

okay to be aggressive you know when when

Russians pour over the Border in Ukraine

you want some of that big dick energy

you know

it's there's some features of of

distinct to uh uh uh men that is really

important in our society and should be

celebrated and all of it has been in my

opinion not all of it a lot of it has

been on the left conflated with toxicity

and there's some of those attributes

that can lead to terrible Behavior but

most of it is a good thing in our

society most of it is needed quick one

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there was a big smile on the front of

your book yeah part of the reason why

you put that what looks like a smiley

face on it is because because of this

Arc of happiness that you describe yeah

that was quite surprising to me what

what do you mean by an arc of Happiness

well across across almost every culture

the correlation between age and

happiness is a smile so zero to kind of

25 is beer Star Wars you know making out

PR college football or you know Premier

League football 0 to 25 is usually

pretty happy 25 to 45 is what I call the

[ __ ] gets real years you realize that

distinct what your parents your uni told

you you're not going to have a fragrance

named after you or be a member of

parliament you have kids you have

economic stress someone you love a great

deal gets sick and dies your parents

right life gets very hard very fast 25

to 45 and generally speaking these are

the least happy years and then something

wonderful happens usually in your late

40s or early 50s and that is you start

recognizing the finite nature of Life

maybe you have some economic security

maybe you've established relationships

maybe you have these really wonderful

things that are less awful that look

smell and feel like you called kids you

realize that life is you start finding

appreciate I don't know if you remember

this Steve do you remember going out

with your parents and your mom and your

mom would like a salad would come and

she'd stop the table and say look at how

beautiful the salad is yeah or just

admire the flowers and you think you

used to think as a kid like what the

[ __ ] like and when you realize it's so

weird when you turn into your I stopped

outside my house uh there's a garden and

I just couldn't stop marveling at the

Garden the garden's here I've never seen

anything like it we have this Garden

across is in the park and I'm like who

are the Gnomes that come out at night

and manicure this thing so perfectly and

I'm not into botney or horiculture and I

can't stop marveling I wouldn't have

done that in my 27y old self but I do it

in my 57 I find you find joy in new

things you find joy in the mundane as

you get older and you get happier and

the happiest generation the happiest age

cohort is the cohort that should be the

least happy because they're not healthy

is old people so what the learning here

is that if you wake up at 35 and you

have a couple kids and you have a spouse

or you have a job you know and you think

[ __ ] this is hard I'm not that

happy recognize that's part of the

journey and just keep on keeping on you

know happiness Waits For You in most

instances uh so happiness is absolutely

a smile and so I think it's helpful just

to know that that as you move into your

income earning years as you move into

your mating and child rearing years and

the depth of work and your parents start

aging it's stressful and it's hard and

if you're unhappy or feel unhappy at

times that is normal that's part of the

journey and for me it's it was helpful

to read that because I'm looking forward

to all the happiness that's kind of

coming my way and I can feel it as you

get older you just start finding joy in

weird places when was the the pit of

your Ark in your life when was when were

your hardest years as it relates to

happiness um

well losing my mom was tough for me um

but I think the the the pit for me

you're an entrepreneur the highs are

really high and the lows are really low

the closest I can equate it to

is is having a business like having a

kid you conceive the thing it looks

smells and feels like you and when it

does well it's just like when your kid

scores a goal or is doing great or seems

happy there's just no joy like that when

something come you have your world to

work you have your of friends and you

have kids you don't have kids yet have

St you'll find this out when something

goes wrong with one of your kids the

whole universe shrinks to what is wrong

with your kid I mean nothing else

matters and you just can't sleep you're

stressed you're upset you feel failure

on a cosmic level because this Instinct

that pours over us is if your kid is

failing you have failed on a more Cosmic

level because you haven't been able to

protect that kid it's the same way with

a business so when your business fails

you just it's impossible to remove your

yourself from that failure my lowest

moment probably professionally was in

the great financial recession of

2008 in 99 I was a young man and was

Wealthy on paper I'd started several

e-commerce companies I didn't realize

most of it was not my fault that it was

the market and by the end of 2000 I was

broke I lost everything through the

dotom crash cloged my way back to some

level of Economic Security in 2007

smacked again in 2008 lost almost

everything and then my my young son or

my oldest had the poor judgment to come

marching out of my girlfriend so I was

broke and I had a son a newborn and a

combination of the disappointment

professionally where I was now 40 years

old and wasn't economically where I

thought it would be was really upsetting

and and disappointing and then the

stress when you're a dude with no spouse

or kids you can kind of dance Between

The Raindrops if you need to you can

sleep on a couch I was knew I can make a

living I could support myself myself but

living in New York uh having uh what

felt like economic failure business

failure and a kid and it's like okay my

failures are now this kid's failures

that was really stressful uh it was also

very motivating you know IID made some

money so I had made enough money to live

kind of a a kind of a a fake wealthy

life I had nice clothes a nice apartment

I could go to St Barts I had just enough

money to give the illusion of success

but there's no faking it when you have

kids this person is dependent upon you I

was living in New York it's impossible

not to make a good living in New York

with kids um and so that was wildly

stressful it was like okay this is no

longer about me when I fail economically

I'm failing as a species I'm failing as

a dad uh that was a rough time 2008 2009

was rough but it was also very

motivating cuz I got very serious and

started working very hard and again I

didn't see my kids we had another kid

two and a half years later I didn't see

much of my kids until the age of five I

I you know I try and get home for bath

time but I was very focused on getting

my household back on economic firm

footing again but that was very

stressful that's your biggest sort of

professional failure what about your

biggest personal pit

pit um and what did it teach you oh I

don't know I I I think are both your

parents still alive

yeah okay so one of them will get sick

and die and that is the heart the two

things I found that kind of turn you

into an adult are when you lose one of

your parents it's just the harshness of

it is so Unthinkable as a species we

have an inability to wrap our head

around death for good reason otherwise

we'd all just be freaked out and not

willing to take risk and not hunt

animals for fear they might kill us not

take risk never go outside so we

purposely can't understand it we can't

imagine it you can't imagine that this

person's going to be gone and it is over

that is devastating and it it also just

brings this harshness of life like

really present in front of you but at

the same time it creates tremendous

perspective that wow the mortality

rate's 100% my kids are going to have

the same tragedy when I die and I think

it I think it can liberate you and

realize that said okay if I feel

embarrassed if I feel scared about risks

if I'm beating myself up over a mistake

I made you know what it really doesn't

matter that much you should be kinder to

yourself you should be more forgiving

there's great work by my colleague at

NYU Adam alter on paliative carry where

he surveys people who are weeks from the

end and they have a lot of regrets they

they wish they'd live the life they want

to live whether it was being more open

about their sexuality being who they

wanted to be with going to the career

they wanted to go with they were living

their lives for other people is a huge

regret or Society they wish they'd

stayed in better contact with friends

but more than anything their number one

regret is they wish they'd been less

harsh on themselves and that is again

life isn't about what happens to you

it's how you respond to what happens to

you and when someone dies and you

realize the finite nature of life and

that we all have the same end coming I

think it's liberating because what you

realiz is when you say something stupid

in a board meeting even when you have a

business fail when you pick a stock and

it gets cut half in two weeks and you're

just hating on yourself when you say

something stupid at a party when you say

something unkind unwittingly and you're

just like Jesus what was I think and

you're just beating yourself up realize

it's the person you're worried about

what they think of you your situation

it's going to go really fast and it's

going to be over and all you're going to

have is the people that miss you so you

don't you need to forgive yourself and

you need to

realize what feels important in the

moment isn't that important and I found

it very liberating I was devastated

losing a parent and was really my only

parent but at the same time it just gave

me a lot of perspective and then I think

the second moment in your life you start

to grow up is when you have a kid

because up until that moment and I'm

naturally a selfish person it comes it

comes very easily to me but it's the

first time in your life you're more

concerned with someone else's

well-being and it's it's it's a strange

sense to want someone else to be more

concerned about someone else's wellbeing

than yours I mean truly more concerned

and it's somewhat liberating when I was

your age on Friday I'd start getting

stressed like what fabulous people am I

hanging out with what amazing thing am I

doing how can I hang around more

interesting and hotter people how can I

have better experiences sex more sex

with hotter people make more money make

more money now it's like okay we got

soccer practice Saturday morning we got

a play dates out it's all of a sudden

just about them I mean it's literally

just about them and for the first few

few years that takes some

adapting but what you find I find it's

relaxing now to be more focused on

someone else I find is is is relaxing

and rewarding instead of just all you

all the time right so losing someone and

gaining someone I think are the kind of

key moments where you sort of uh grow up

I mean losing your parent is something

that happens to everybody some the

economic strain I have most people would

pray for but personal troughs uh I've

been really blessed so far you talked a

little bit there about self-doubt yeah

um do you do you struggle with

self-doubt oh yeah I have a huge

impostor syndrome but I think it's

healthy and I think most people have it

I think um yeah I I sure uh every time

I've raised money I've thought I was

fooling them committing fraud like oh

God I just raised $37 million from my

edtech startup what were they thinking

you know what were they thinking um I

don't you know I weird things like uh I

I get I'm sure you get fan mail or uh if

people who listen my podcast or want to

meet me or have dinner with me I don't

like to do it because I always find

they're going to be disappointed that

the person they think I am I'm just not

that interesting or that cool um I I

always worry that at the end of the day

my natural state will be to be broken

alone that that's kind of like what my

personality traits were they'll lead me

um I have those fears every day I have

huge impostor

syndrome um yeah so but again it it's

motivating it's like well okay prove

yourself and them wrong so I I wouldn't

describe myself I'm not a I'm I'm I'm

I'm I'm confident on certain levels but

I always feel like a little bit like

every time I have an achievement I've

like kind of fooled everybody do you

know where that comes from because I I

I'm not sure if that's everybody I sit

here with a lot of people so I see a

variance yeah I don't know yeah I really

don't know I don't know

where um I don't know where it comes

from but yeah I definitely have

something whispering in my ear like yeah

who the [ __ ] are you kidding like yeah

that you you temp you fooled them

temporarily but it's all going to come

crashing down yeah I have that when I

was reading through a lot of things

you'd said about yourself you you also

had called yourself an [ __ ] a few

times

mhm what do you mean by that and why

were you an

[ __ ] uh yeah simp someone who wasn't

kind someone who put their own needs

ahead of other people I wasn't very kind

to my first wife I should have been as

an early manager I should have been

kinder to my employees yeah an

[ __ ] why why or how I don't know I I

guess because I could or I don't know I

like that think that I've gotten better

as I've gotten older I think in America

there's

this um at least and it's changing in

the world I grew up when I think it's

kind of started with Steve

Jobs you know here's a guy who I think

there's this unfortunate Gestalt in

American Business that if you're

talented and super nice you're talented

if you're talented and a bit of an

[ __ ] you're a genius

it was seen as leadership to be in a

room and and get angry or point out the

problems or dress somebody down I think

that's changed for the better in the

last 10 years but everybody was trying

to be Steve Jobs and there's no getting

around it he was cruel at work he denied

his own blood under oath to avoid child

support payments while it was worth a

quarter of a billion dollars and that's

the Jesus Christ of our information age

economy this was not a kind

man and so in the Tech Community in the

90s it

was uh kind of rewarded to be you know

you were a fighter right to be

harsh and I think a lot of that has

changed for the better you realize and I

just as you get older you're just

younger you're selfish and I think I've

gotten some early

success so I I don't think I realize the

extent to which luck played a role in

that but I've gotten better um I'm you

know less of an [ __ ] what has allowed

you to increase your self-awareness you

just get older you just get you know you

just get older you realize I remember I

had one moment and it I was at a I was

in a meeting I run my own companies yeah

before I joined NYU and I remember like

just nothing that big a deal but this

guy was presenting and he was had some

slides and I'm like I'm might go back

I'm like your slides make no [ __ ]

sense I'm like just don't don't get us

all in a room and present this garbage

garbage just kind of set it like that

those exact words and he finished the

presentation and then we're all you know

afterwards and I went to the men's room

and he was in the men's room and he was

next to me at the Ural urinal and I saw

his hand shaking he was so rattled by

the thing that he had like a small py or

whatever you call it and I remember

thinking you know I was finally getting

to an age where I could start to be a

little bit more self-aware and kind of

like what's the point of all this

[ __ ]

success if you just make other people

feel like [ __ ] like what's the a point

and I thought why did I do that and some

of it was to communicate that this was

unacceptable and it was the data that

this person was presenting was

unacceptable but it would have been just

but part of it was for me to take the

opportunity to elevate my own

stature by diminishing someone else's

and that's entirely wrong and what you

realize as you get older is that you

don't need to diminish other people's

status to get to the same point I should

have taken him aside and said come on

man data was you can do better than that

this is what was wrong with it this is

what how I think you should present the

data realize that you're presenting to a

group of people who are going to notice

that data contradicts the data on the

next slide and instead uh uh my need to

feel I don't know important or whatever

put my own needs ahead of theirs I think

there's a lot of that I don't think I

don't think it's a unique attribute uh

but I I'd like to think that I've

starched most of most of that out of my

professional life I think you just get

older uh hopefully you get Kinder you

get more

self-aware but oh yeah I look back on my

career there's a lot I'm not proud of

what are you still working on

personally uh being present you know you

regret and upset about the past anxiety

about the

future uh take you so out of the present

trying to enjoy my sons at boarding

school the most difficult thing about

moving here is I come home my boy's not

there my my 15-year-old that's really

strange for me you'll see when your kids

are around they become a limb like when

you're not around your kids you feel as

if something's wrong I mean the first

the first day away from them is amazing

and then it gets awful you're like oh

God this is wonderful I can sleep in you

know I like I used to like business

travel especially when their babies

babies are tough but now you feel like

you're like you're like walking around

without a limb is it's just weird and my

son's in boarding school here and so

coming home and not having him home is

just very uh very strange so when he was

home yesterday he's only home for a day

and a half on the weekends trying to be

very in the moment trying to be present

I have a tough time one of my talents as

an entrepreneur I think is that I'm

always thinking about work and focused

on [ __ ] so when I show up Monday morning

I've kind of got a head start because

I'm thinking about problems I'm thinking

about stuff but the problem is you're

not that present and it's very hard to

balance those two because it's so

competitive I mean I would imagine I

look around I I I know your success I

would imagine you're constantly thinking

about work right thinking about new new

ways to improve things people you can

reach out to emails you should send to

encourage people you know just

constantly think about it once you have

kids it's very hard to manage that

balance because you want to be present

so I'm trying to be present also

I'm trying to slow time down time is

falling off a cliff for me um I have a

chat group with my college friends it

was

yesterday you know when we were in

college it's it's just flown by the last

30 years which means it's going to go

even faster and I'm going to be 87 so

trying to slow time down trying to be

more present that's what I'm working on

and uh uh you just trying to be kinder I

think I think everyone should from day

one just think okay how can I be more

kind how do we slow time down my my uh

my friend asked me the other day what my

superpower would be and that's what I

said I said I wish I could pause time

yeah and my like I think it's toxic my

answer but I was like because then I

could get my work done yeah yeah and

continue with with my life and then

maybe I could DJ and learn you know some

other things but my I've always said

that that would that would be my chosen

superpower but how does one practically

slow time down so that 30 years doesn't

fly past

so when you're a dad one of the things

you realize is you have this image that

belief that your kids are going to be

into World War II history and Crossfit

those are the things I'm interested in

and what you find out is kids have their

own interests and if you want to be a

good dad you have to lean into their

interests otherwise you're just not

going to have a very strong relationship

with them because they they're selfish

kids are inherently selfish and they're

oh well Dad's really the World War II

history so I'll go to the you know the

the British war museum and I'll find it

fascinating you know that doesn't happen

my kids so yesterday I ended up at

life-size Monopoly which is this

lifesize Monopoly game somewhere and for

me that's the seventh ring of hell

that's just that's just a but what you

try to do to slow time down is I

immediately go into like okay just

ignore the thing you know check your

email be a good dad just do get through

it get through it I find you can slow

time down by getting into stuff like

trying to like s really try and get in

get into life-size Monopoly and engage

with my child and like be a little bit

over the top about it and when they do

cheers scream loud like trying just get

really into things because if you want

time to pass it will it'll cooperate but

when you get really into stuff even

though you think it's stupid and cheesy

and you're like can't help but think God

this is like Chinese water

torture um I find that slow it down also

find leaning into your emotions slows

time down because it makes you more

present um I didn't cry or laugh out

loud from the ages of 30 to 44 for 14

years I didn't cry once and I didn't

laugh out loud I for I lost the capacity

to uncontrollably laugh and to cry I

just kind of forgot how to do either of

those things and emotions are things you

have to practice so I remember the first

time I started crying and the first time

I really laughed at loud with friends I

thought God did both these things feel

great and I started getting really into

those things and feeling guilt when I do

something stupid or like trying to

really embrace my emotions because that

indicates what's important to you what

moves you what inspires you what upsets

you what pisses you off and I find

emotions like real raw emotions when you

register them and absorb them and like

lean into the messy part of yourself I

find that slows time down so getting

into stuff and registering your emotions

and as a business person you're taught

to be a little bit stoic you have this

weird sense also as a man of masculinity

that men don't feel their emotions but

you you start forgetting what's

important to you you start forgetting

what like is real your things you're

into like what what do you find

hilarious what makes you well up with

tears because you find it so moving

without being without doing that stuff

you forget what's important to you you

forget like you kind of lose your

individualism uh anyway so there's and

you talked to Simon Sy there's a bunch

of people who have a lot of means uh

those are my those are my two tricks in

your book the algebra of Happiness the

third section is about health and you

spoke earlier about the importance of it

I've really recently over the last two

years I'd say learned the importance of

health and make sure I work out pretty

much every day what are why is health so

important you know I've I've been on my

own journe to understand it but um one

of the things you said was that the most

common trait among CEOs is that they

exercise

regularly um and even think you said you

made comments about alcohol being bad

for us did you did you take time to

learn that I know you've been working

out since you were very very young MH

but the the overarching role of our

health in everything um what have you

learned about that and the importance of

it well it's kind of where it all starts

I mean this is not a rental you know

this is not a tress rehearsal your body

is it I mean you look you you look like

an athlete what do you do every day what

do you thank you I'll clip that um and

I'll put that in my

bio um I do a mixture so I I train for

an hour every day um jamim is in my

fitness group so about 90% of days a

year we we train um yesterday was

CrossFit uh yeah yesterday was CrossFit

so yeah so look if you could do

something that would make you less

depressed make you more likely to be

successful F broaden your selection set

of

mates I mean wouldn't wouldn't you want

to take that drug every day it's called

exercise we're happiest as a species in

motions surrounded by others we've been

hunting and Gathering so the things

you're going to remember in your life

are usually not the CrossFit class but

walking around Rome with your family and

your kids complaining but being outside

in some form of

exercise with people you care about so

uh an exercise and feeling strong uh I

mean it's been my anti-depressant if I

don't you know I got here four three

four days ago I've only worked out once

I can feel myself I'm angrier I'm not as

nice I don't feel as good about myself

it's I think for a lot of people it is

it is the easiest means to an

anti-depressant it's the closest thing

we have to a youth serum you have this

basically 24x7 security camera on in

your brain trying to figure out if

you're adding value that's the bad news

the good news is it's got terrible res

solution and you can fool it so if

you're caring for other people

caregivers generally live longer because

your brain will sense that you're caring

for other people you're social you're

touching people you're concerned and it

releases a hormone that lets you stay

alive new mothers typically do not die

um if you're exercising intensely it

fools the camera into believing that

you're hunting prey or building housing

and it says let's keep this person

around longer so it is a great

anti-depressant it's a great use serum

um I find you're just Kinder you're

nicer you're more confident so you know

it's I again uh the thing that the

Fortune 500 cosos have most in common

it's not the schools they went to it's

not even their it's not even their

ethnicity it is gender only 483 of them

are men but more than any practice or

attribute it's that they work out four

to five times plus a week physical

fitness again it's one of my

algorithms you should not watch other

people sweat for any longer than you

sweat and I you

know if if you're watching other people

sweat four hours a week and you're

sweating one hour a week you're in

trouble do not you have to sweat more

than you watch other people sweat the

other thing we have in common is um our

backgrounds in advertising and brand you

you speak a lot about um branding and

advertising um I sat here with Rory

Sutherland and that was one of our real

best performing episodes I didn't

realize there was such a demand on from

our audience in terms of practical

advertising knowledge he talked a lot

about Apple and Tesla and the secrets

there how is the the the the the the

lands of advertising and a brand

building a reputation changed in your

lifetime and what is the most important

thing for Brands to understand now or

some of the important things for Brands

to understand now if they are to be

successful yeah so my first job in

business school I started a company

called profit brand strategy that's now

about 500 people now it's just called

profit and the basic notion was it was

based on the principles of my professor

my second year David 's considered the

father of modern branding and it was

that the intangible associations with a

brand or set of products or services are

the only sustainable

advantage that if you can wrap a set of

products and services with these brand

codes of masculinity European Elegance

Youth and then pound away at those

associations using this incredibly chap

cheap efficient medium called broadcast

advertising you can take a marginal shoe

salty snack marginal car and get amazing

margins on it so that was that's been

the from the end of World War II to the

introduction of Google in the 90s the

algorithm for creating massive

shareholder wealth was find a mediocre

product wrap it in amazing brand codes

and make people feel more patriotic or

more or younger stuff the Channel with

it and print money the pgs the Pepsi Co

of the world you know the coca-colas

these were the economic Titans of yester

year

the sun has passed midday on that

because our weapons of diligence whether

it's Google or trip advis or Amazon

reviews now gets us to the best product

without the benefit of this weapon of

diligence called brand when I come came

to London I used to stay at the Four

Seasons in the mandin Oriental why

because someone else was paying and

their old was an eight and then I went

on trip advisor and I went on my social

graph and I found out the people love

the conet hotel or people love the

Ferndale hotels I I started staying at

the Hay Market why I like a place from a

nice gym and I want to pay stay at with

hang out with people who are younger and

cooler than me so I started staying at

boutique hotels so all of a sudden

product became the bomb again and then

your ability to embrace these new

mediums around social became more

important than broadcast advertising so

the traditional metrics of branding the

traditional vehicles for Branding a

brand identity and broadcast advertising

that I've been preaching in brand

strategy the sun has passed midday if

you look at my curriculum and the

majority of curriculums and marketing

departments You could argue that we're

just training people to go to work at

Unilever or General Mills and be laid

off 24 months

later uh branding has become much more

about Innovation and actual product

quality now that extends into how you

discover the product how you absorb the

product the community around it but you

know Tesla is a better product Apple

used to be an underpowered product with

a great brand now it's a great brand

with a superior product so these Airbnb

is a much better product these things

are G Google is 10x better than what was

there before it so supply

chain uh design the way you absorb the

product its ease of use you know it's

just it's moved from kind of what you

call a brand economy to for back lack of

a better term an innovation economy so

rather than taking classes on

Advertising I say take classes on supply

chain or analytics or really understand

industrial design you know there was a

general feeling that all product quality

had maxed out

and then the internet came along and

unlocked all this product Innovation so

cars they felt that hit kind of a peak

in terms of product quality and then all

of a sudden with the internet and GPS

you could you could tune a car up uh

wirelessly you you can unlock the doors

uh there was all kinds of crazy things