[Music]

I was just breaking down mentally of

like what have I done? I have I don't

know what else to do with my life. And I

think I wrote a letter to my best friend

like I'm losing it, dude. What did it

say? It's a deep one. Jesus.

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

Jimmy, I was reading through your

business portfolio and it's extremely

extensive. You found a production

company, a ride shoes, you got the ice

cream, the tonight dough. But the

through line here is about making people

happy. I've always wanted to please

people since I was a kid. And in your

eighth grade class, you were voted most

likely to replace David Letterman on the

Late Night Show. Is that crazy? Cuz I

ended up doing that. Well, it does feel

like you pulled that into existence

somehow. Well, I was beyond obsessed. I

wanted to be on Saturday a lot. So, I

worked at the improv where I think the

paycheck was

$7.25. You didn't really eat much. Like,

I would turn cardboard boxes on the

street into tables. It's tough. It's a

lot of rejection, but the stage time was

priceless. And eventually, you get a

phone call. I got an audition for Siren

Live. This was my big opportunity. I

remember going on stage, did my first

impression, and I blew it. That was

probably my lowest moment. It was very

depressing. You'd said that if you

didn't make it on SNL before the age of

25, I was going to kill myself. Did you

mean that? Yeah, but I just knew that I

would be on Sarah. It was going to

happen. And against all odds, I did it.

How old were you? 23. So crazy. Jimmy, I

found some photos. Can you tell me about

this one? Oh my

god. Uh,

wow. This has always blown my mind a

little bit. 53% of you that listen to

the show regularly haven't yet

subscribed to the show. So, could I ask

you for a favor before we start? If you

like the show and you like what we do

here and you want to support us, the

free simple way that you can do just

that is by hitting the subscribe button.

And my commitment to you is if you do

that, then I'll do everything in my

power, me and my team, to make sure that

this show is better for you every single

week. We'll listen to your feedback.

We'll find the guests that you want me

to speak to, and we'll continue to do

what we do. Thank you so

[Music]

much. Jimmy, what do I need to know

about you to understand the man that you

are? And when I ask that question, I'm

specifically trying to understand your

earliest context because you're in many

respects an anomaly, but you're an

anomaly that was very, very clear on

where you wanted to go in your life from

a shockingly young age. So, I'm

wondering what gave you such clarity and

what the context was that made made you

the unique way that you are. Gosh,

that's a great question. That's going to

be the whole that's going to be the

whole show right here because I want to

find out. Uh I you know maybe uh um

entertaining or being funny is probably

or wanting to just satisfy people. I

think you know wanting to please people.

I've always wanted to please people

since I was a kid. Like I don't know if

it was my parents or my grandparents or

I wanted to make people feel good and

and give everyone or if I'm at a party I

want to make sure it's the I'm it's the

best party, you know, and I'm giving

everything. I want to make sure. So,

it's pleasing or appeasing, one of those

words. But I think I've always wanted to

do that. And that's kind of what I do

now. Do you have like an earliest memory

of that behavior?

I think wanting to do good in like I

don't know at at uh sports maybe or you

know in grade school or or I I remember

I was an alter boy you know. So I I I

was uh at one point at one point in my

life I want to be a priest. Yeah. Which

I thought I think I'd be a pretty good

priest. I would be funny and you know I

could have good delivery. You know

someone said to me once they said maybe

you got your first taste of uh wanting

to be an entertainer from being an alter

boy because you're up on stage kind of.

Yeah. Yeah. Technically and there's an

audience. Yeah. And you're up kind of

performing. I mean, walking around and

you're wearing an outfit kind of, you

know, wearing costume and, you know, so

it's kind of theater in a weird way, but

I remember just kind of wanting to do

good for like be like make my parents

proud or my grandparents proud or there

was a kind of I mean it it all happened

so fast that I don't I don't I don't

have problems with it or or go back to

it and go that was traumatic, you know?

I just think that I was always like a

people pleaser. Your parents were very

strict. Yeah. Very Catholic, very

strict. No

cursing, no sex, you know, very

Catholic, you know, no no dirty words,

no my I would listen to comedy albums,

you know, and my dad would take a key

and scratch the curse words out of the

record. He would find where the dirty

word was and stopping and scratch it out

of the record so I wouldn't hear it. So

I would hear Rodney Dangerfield and it

would skip to the end of the joke. It

was like tell and then cut to people

clapping and laughing. I go, "Well, I

don't even know what the joke was." I

mean, it kind of ruined it. I go, "Why

are they laughing?" But I didn't quite

But he would, my dad would tape music

videos, you know, on these shows in

America, you know, called like uh USA

Nightflight or Friday Night Videos, and

they he tape these music videos. He

would watch them on Saturdays and go

tape to tape of what videos we could see

that wasn't offensive at all or sexually

inappropriate or something too advanced

for us or something. What was he like as

a man? Funny, life at the party,

hardworking, very Brooklyn, very New

York. He sang in a doo-op group uh on

the street corners. So he would go, you

know, not professionally, but just that

was one of the things he did in high

school. And then he also fought in gangs

like um not just beat each other up

gangs. Like I don't think anyone killed

each other, but this was back in the 50s

where they just would one street corner

would fight another street corner and

they got together and just have a fist

fight or something. Tough guy. He was a

tough guy. Yeah, he's emotional. No, not

emotional.

Uh, I've never seen my dad cry or any of

that stuff. Affectionate.

Yeah. I mean, I got I love yous and hugs

and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, not

overly. Not the way I think I am. I'm

I'm hugging my kids every single day and

telling them how proud I am of them and

saying I love you and they say I love

you back and you know I I'm I'm overly,

you know, where I didn't have that, you

know, I I think it was just my mom was

more that and I think that was kind of

put on my mom is you're the emotional,

you know, you hug the kids and love them

and he was just more like, "Yep, I I

love you." You know, that's great. He

was rooting for me always, you know, but

you know, a little harsh, but not not

crazy harsh like we, you know. Yeah. Not

nothing that crazy.

Gloria, your mother. Yeah. Gloria is my

mom. Yeah. Uh, sadly passed away. Uh,

miss my mom. My mom's name is Gloria. My

sister names is Gloria. My dad's name is

Jim. And I'm named Jim. very unoriginal

parents. Couldn't come up with any other

name. Like th those are the perfect

names for you. But yeah, my mom was my

she rooted for me. That was my number

one fan. I was the golden child in her

head, you know, like whatever I did, she

was like, "That's that's my kid. That's

my Oh my god, you're fantastic. You got

to go. You're great." You know, and she

would always root me on whatever it is I

did. She would laugh, you know. And uh I

I I miss her not being around, you know,

cuz I would talk to her every day, you

know, sometimes multiple times a day and

you know, talk about Sarah Live and

she'd watch the show and see Sketchers

thought was funny. I mean, I would she

was part of

my life and I think part of what built

my confidence even as an adult. Yeah,

completely. You talk to her almost daily

as an adult. Yeah. I would call her and

just go, "What's going on?" You know,

she loved to talk. That was her. She was

great at that. She had one of those

phones that had the phone cords that was

so stretched out from walking all around

the house and talking all day that the

phone cord probably was 2 miles long. I

mean, it's it was a pile of spaghetti on

the floor. I'm like, it's so I go, gosh,

you should get a cordless phone. You

won't even believe how your life

changes. You can go anywhere, Mom. Uh,

but she loved to walk around and talk.

So she could talk all day long. But then

she would call me and she like I saw you

on TV or you know if she saw I go I know

mom. I'm on that show. But she was like

you're on Ellen today. I know I I was

there. I was that was me. I was on it,

you know, but she was my number one fan

and

loved bits that I would do and she

was one of the most interesting people

ever and like they, you know, both of

them together are kind of cartoon

characters, you know, and by the end,

you know, they both kind of would

couldn't really hear each other, you

know, it was a lot of like what? And my

dad would go, "Huh?" You know, I said

what? Huh? What? Huh? And they just say

what? Huh? Until I interrupted. Go stop.

just stop talking because let's just

move on. You can't hear each other. This

is uh insane. But I wish I can give you

the best story of kind of what my mom

was like. I mean, I remember going home

to the house where I grew up in so New

York after I was on Sarah Live and or

maybe even during and I came home and

mom's like, "Let's go out to dinner."

And I go, "Okay." I go, "But I I don't

really need to. I live in Manhattan.

There's some of the best restaurants. I

I come home because I want home-cooked,

you know, meals, you know, but but I was

I go, "Sure." I go I go, "But just don't

make a big deal. Don't embarrass me."

She's like, "I'm not going to embarrass

you. I'm not." I go, "Okay, let's go."

So, we go into this restaurant and we

sit in and we sit down and she goes,

"I'm kind of getting a draft." And I go,

"No, no, no. We're not moving. We're not

making a big deal. Remember, that's the

deal. We're just not making a scene.

We're having dinner like you said. We're

going to go out." Okay, fine. So, we're

sitting there and she goes, "Let's

order." I go, "You're great." And she

goes, "I'll have this." My dad's like,

"I'll have steak." And I go, she goes,

"I'll have the lamb chops or something."

Great. So, we're waiting and they come

over with my dad and my meal, but they

forget my mom's meal. They go, "You

know, we didn't put in the uh lamb."

She's like, "Okay." So, we can't really

eat. So, she goes, she go, "Thank you."

As they leave, she goes, "I'm not going

to eat." I go, "You can't do that

because you're going to make a scene.

You have to eat whatever." She goes,

"No, I'm just I'm fine. I don't care." I

go, "Please don't make a big deal." She

goes, "I'm not making pizza. Just

where's my thing? I ordered it." I'm

like, "Okay." I go, "Don't make a big

deal." Finally, they bring over this

lamb thing after this whole thing. I go,

"Great. Just eat it." She's like, "So,

she's eating out of spite." And she

takes the first bite and she

goes, and I go, "Oh, oh my god. She's

not joking." And she's like pointing at

her throat. And I go, "Oh my god." So my

dad sticks his finger down my mom's

throat and he's like and she's like

making these noises and I go, "Oh, this

is a nightmare." And then some woman

runs over. She goes, "I'm a nurse. I'm a

nurse." And knocking over tables and

knocking everything over and grabs my

mom and picks up my mom and gives her

the himlick. And my mom is making a

noise that I've never heard anyone ever.

She was making I've never heard my mom

make this. She was going

like and and then a and she pulled it

and then a lambball flew out of my mom's

mouth and hit the wall and the whole

restaurant is just looking at us and

they sit down and she's crying, you

know, and she's, you know, alive. And my

dad goes, "All right, let's just finish

dinner." And I go, "Finish dinner. It's

over. We're going home. We're we're

buying a bottle of wine for that lady

and we're getting out of here." My dad

was like, "That lady should have minded

her own business." I go, "What?" Maybe

it was mom's time to go, you

know,, you know, but it was it they were

that weird and funny where they're like

odd people, but always making jokes. But

that was so and it was embarrassing.

But, you know, I remember telling that

story, you know, and she at a party and

she would love to hear it because that

was just very her and you know, she she

she just did stuff like that where she's

like, "H, this can't be real." A lot of

that. Of both your parents, who are you

trying to please the most, do you think?

Who are you who are you waiting for the

well done from the most?

God, and that's a great question. I

would say probably my my mom. I think

she she I I would like to make her

laugh, you know, because she had a great

laugh. They both did, but I think of

both of them, I think my mom would be

the one cuz I was like she was a fan of

mine. So, it's almost like going like,

"Do you like my new song? Do you like

the second record?"

If you're a fan of the Beatles, you

know, like, "Do you like Sergeant

Pepper?" You know, you know, and she

would be like, "I like it. I like this."

You know, that because I could tell that

she's a fan of mine. She's like, "Oh, I

like this new thing you're doing, or I

like the song you did." You know, I I

think that was great because I could get

feedback from someone I could tell was

kind of studying what I was doing. For

me, being a comedian and being comedic

is

so

so I say this with the the most amount

of respect, but it's so so strange

because it's such a big risk and it's

such a unique career to pursue with very

little promise of it of financial return

or any real Yeah. Yeah. notoriety. Like

when I spoke to Jim uh Jimmy Carr and

other comedians that I've interviewed,

there's something a little bit

Say it

crazy. Crazy mental. Yeah. Crazy about

it. You know, I never and I still to

this day I don't care about money. I

never cared about money. I never did

anything for I don't I I just don't do

it. I never did it for money. And I I

was just I worked because I liked

working, you know. I liked I worked

since I was 13 because I

enjoyed I guess getting a paycheck but

you know and paying for things but I

don't know what things I was paying for.

I was 13 years old. But I mean, I I

liked the idea of going into work and

working a 9 toive day and, you know,

doing overtime. And I I I looked forward

to working wherever it was. And like

maybe it was because I was trying to be

my dad cuz he would go to work in the

mornings and then I would see him at

night, you know, when he came home. But

I I remember just not caring about

money. And my mom I would always put our

laundry in the laundry basket or

whatever and my mom would do the

laundry. She go, "Jimmy, I found $5 in

your jeans." And I go, "Okay." Yeah.

Yeah. She go, "Thanks." She goes, "Next

time I'm going to keep it." And I go,

"Do it. I could care less. What am I

going to do? I take" She's like, you

know, and then my dad's like, "You got

to start caring about money." I go, "I

don't I don't I don't think I ever will.

I just don't It never was a thing for

me. I never cared about, oh, I got the

most or I I got paid blah blah." I just

loved the experience of it all. the

experience of work uh of any work or any

work it led to comedy as well as you

know when I did comedy shows you know

when you when you worked at the Improv

in LA which is a great comedy club in

Los Angeles on Melrose Avenue you would

go up and I think the paycheck was

$725 that's what you get paid total

there's no way you could do that for the

money because I mean it's worthless

what's $7 going to do for you. But it

was the getting on stage, the stage time

that was priceless and building an act

and trying to get a persona and build a

brand and build a character and work in

your act that could lead to a bigger act

or a Saturday night gig. A Saturday

night gig paid maybe

$20 a a gig. And that was kind of okay

money. And they would also feed you on a

Saturday. So, which is great because I

had no food, you know. I was just like

living there going like, you know, I

make got to $7. I can buy some things,

but I you didn't really eat much.

Saturday, they would feed you. And I

remember my first Saturday gig at the

improv. I go in, it's a big deal. And

I'm brand new, uh, probably out in LA,

maybe six months or something. And I

worked my way. You have to do any week

night, anytime they call, you have to be

up there. And so I did that and I put my

dues in for that and showed up and I had

I did pretty well. I had a good

10-minute act and um Saturday night gig

and I get there and I see Jerry Seinfeld

in the restaurant. I go and I go out to

the pay phone and I call my parents 1800

collect. Do you know what that is? Yeah.

At least just about. Yeah. It's like a

way to make a collect call so that you

don't pay for it if you have no money.

So you would call 1800 collect and

someone would have to pay for the my

parents would pay for the phone call

from LA. And I call my mom 1800 collect

and she goes, "What's Hi, Jimmy." I go,

"Mom, Jerry Seinfeld is at the club at

the improv tonight." She's like, "Oh my

god, Jerry Seinfeld. Oh my god, I can't

believe it." Uh, she's like, "This is

the peak of Seinfeld." She goes, "Is he

going to go do stand up?" And I go, "I

don't think so. I don't know. He's just

eating at the restaurant. He's I know

he's a fan of comedy." And uh the owner

was name is Bud Freeman. And so he was

there with Bud. So I go So I go in and

I'm getting ready to do my act which is

a lot of impressions and I'm waiting

there and who goes on stage but Jerry

Seinfeld. He just walks on they go we

have a surprise for you tonight and he

gets a standing ovation cr before he

even says anything comes out does his

greatest hits. I mean crushing every

joke the famous ones the sock missing

from the dry the whole bit. He did

everything. Then he says, "Good night,

standing ovation." And he leaves. And

the guy goes, "Okay, who's on next?"

"Uh, Mark." And this guy, Mark goes,

"I'm not following that." And he goes,

"Uh, how about uh you?" And he, you

know, there's two other guys like uh uh

Darl or No. He goes, "I'm not following

that." He's like, "Who's Jimmy Fallon?"

And I go, "That's that's me." He goes,

"Yeah, you're up next, kid." I go, "Oh

my gosh, my first Saturday night, I have

to follow the greatest comedian of all."

I mean, he was the hottest comedian.

Might be one of the best comedians of

all time now. I He's the greatest. I had

to follow that was my first act. I'm

like, and so I went up and I had this

doll and I would do these impressions

about a troll doll and different

impressions of celebrities that would be

the host of

the like this one. Wow. You do your

research. Unless you just carry that

around like that one. So I would have

this doll. Oh my gosh, this is my act.

This is So I would have this and I go,

"Hello, I'm Jimmy Fallon and welcome to

the auditions for Troll Productions

Incorporated. We're looking for a star

or sponsor for our new line of Troll." I

would do like a British accent. I don't

know why. I thought that was cool for me

at the time. Probably sounds terrible to

you. Um, and I don't mean to be

offensive. I go, "Uh, we're looking for

a star or celebrity to sponsor our new

line of Troll Dolls for our new uh line

of commercials. Uh, first up, John

Travolta." Then I go, "She's like, I

swear to God." I mean, like, look at his

hair. Like, who does this who does his

hair? Like, it's so weird. Like, what

kind of doll is this, right? I mean,

like, I can't even like play with this

thing over here, you know? You know,

Sandy, you know, would do something like

that. And but this time I came out and I

go, "First up for the celebrities,

Seinfeld." And I go, "Okay, people.

Okay, look at these dolls. They don't

Their arms and legs don't move. These

aren't fun. He's got no pants on. He's

not even wearing pants. What kind of a

doll is this? And it worked. And I

followed Jerry Cipha and I was like, and

that was cool. And then I went down the

list and I finished my act and I pulled

out a guitar and I played guitar with

the troll doll and that was my act for

years. My name is Jimmy Fallon and

welcome to the auditions for Troll

Productions Incorporated. Remember these

little guys with fuzzy hair. We're

looking for like a jingle for our new

line of throw doll commercials. First

up, you

two out on the street.

[Music]

Were you a confident young man?

So if I zoom back to when you were 12

and you were a class clown in 1986, were

you a confident man? What was going on

in your head? I think I was pretty

confident. I wasn't cocky. I mean, I

remember like my grandfather and my

parents being like, "Hey, don't be too

full of yourself." They didn't like kids

that were too full of themselves or

cocky. I was pretty, but I was

confident. In your eighth grade class,

you were voted by your peers most likely

to replace David Letterman on the Late

Night Show and you're 13 years old at

the time. Is that crazy? Cuz I ended up

doing that. Crazy. I ended up doing

that. I replaced David Letterman. But

you were aiming at that. I wasn't. you

aiming at the SNL thing. Yeah, Saturday

Night Live was my aim. I wanted to be a

cast member on Saturday Night Live. Um,

which I ended up doing, but then

Saturday Night Live is what got me Late

Night, you know, to which is Letterman's

show. And then Late Night got me the

Tonight Show. When you look back at how

at that age you were aiming, you know,

as a young man to be on SNL, which is

exceedingly rare,

but you also went on to, you know,

replace David Letterman on the the late

night show, when you look back in

hindsight and go, so if you if one if

your child came to you and said, "Dad,

how does one aim at a goal and then

accomplish it? And how did you aim at

such a goal? And in hindsight, what were

the factors that went into you

accomplishing that goal? Are there like

principles that you could transfer to

somebody to make them accomplish such a

goal? Because you know, one of your best

friends, I think it was Frank Gentile,

recalled that you are, he says, I've

never met anybody more focused on what

their goal was in life. It's, you know,

I'm not a huge believer in manifestation

as people often describe it, but it does

feel like you pulled that into existence

somehow. I remember just being I I don't

know what it is. I I wasn't that well

read or anything like that, but I just

knew that what I wanted to do I think

from around 12 or

13 and maybe it's because people said I

was good at it or I was making people

laugh, you know. So, I think when my

peers and my friends said like you

should do this like I I think you're

going to be famous one day or I think

you're going to be a comedian, you know.

I think you start believing it and

you're like, "Oh, maybe I am good at

this." Like I don't even remember

watching Late Night or David Letterman

around that time. I knew Siren Live and

I probably did watch Letterman and

Johnny Carson the Tonight Show, but I

think I started thinking, "Oh yeah,

Siren Live will be that's what I want to

do. That's that would be the ultimate

dream." Because that felt exciting and

electric and show business, but also

cool and edgy. And I was like, if that

would be my goal, like how would I do

that? And I remember like secretly if I

threw a coin in a fountain or if I made

a wish on a birthday cake, you know,

which I still do, you know, that's not

my wish anymore. But I remember I would

blow out the candles and I'd say, I want

to be on Saturday Alive every year, all

of my birthdays, any wish that I could

make, that's what I wished, that I could

be on Saturday live. And so maybe

that pressure that I put on myself drove

me to figure it out and see what were

the right steps. I think, you know, my

big

decision, you know, was going into

standup and doing impressions. I knew

the show could always use impressions

and people doing impersonations of

celebrities, you know, and so I thought

that was one way in. And so I remember

doing that. And then I remember reading

that people that uh study at the

Groundlings, which is an improv troop,

uh if they study there, some people go

from the Groundlings Society Lab. So I

moved out to LA and started taking

classes at the Groundlings just in case

that could help me. I also knew that

there was a management company named

Brilstein Gray that managed a lot of the

people that were on Sarant Live. And if

I could get seen by Brostein Gay, maybe

they would put me in touch with, you

know, the Adam Sandlers of the world or

the, you know, people that, uh, you

know, they they had everyone from, I

think, Belushi on till, you know, they

probably have people on the show now,

but I remember getting a call from a

manager who used to work at Broing Gray,

just left. Her name was Randy Seagull,

and she was great, and she was my

manager. I moved out to LA with a

manager and so I thought she would know

how to guide me to Ser Live. What are

your parents saying at this time?

Because if you're if one's kid says,

"I'm going to go out to LA to do comedy

and improv and these kinds of things."

Your dad was a a career man. He was

working at IBM, I believe. Yes, he was

working at IBM. And he said to me, I

said, "Uh," he said, "Look, just

guarantee me two years of college.

just just go to college for at least two

years. Uh, I think we made a deal where

we said, "If you go for four years, I'll

I'll pay for two years and you pay for

two years." Like, okay, that was kind of

a deal for us. And so, I remember going

to college for three and a half years.

And on that half of that last semester,

I I got kind of an opportunity to go to

LA to meet with this manager. And I

said, I called my parents and I said, "I

think I'm gonna drop out and move and go

to LA." and go for it and just try to

take acting lessons and take class at

the Groundlings and try to get an

audition for Saturday Live. And they

were like, "All right,

well, really think about this. You know,

this is really what you did. Who is this

person that you're going out to?" And I

go, "Her name is Randy Seagull. She's a

manager." And I had met her through a

guy that I used to work for in in Troy,

New York. I was a receptionist at a news

weekly called Metroand. I used to answer

the phones and I would also do the

personal ads like, you know, men seeking

women and blah blah blah. And I type

those things out and I remember he moved

to LA to be a music manager. And so I

gave him my tape on his way out, a

videotape of me doing my troll act. And

I said, "Uh, if you see anybody," he

goes, "I'm not doing comedy. I'm doing

music." I go, "I know, but if you see

anybody, maybe pass it along." And so he

passed it along to this manager. So, she

talked to my parents and they got a

phone call where she was like, "I think

Jimmy's got something. You know, he's

green, but I think if he gets, you know,

if he goes to work and puts in the work,

I think that he'll get something. You

know, I I I I think he'll be successful.

He's

green, amateur. He's, you know, he's not

ready yet. If you, you know, you're not

ripe. He's he's green. So if you're

green, you're you're like uh you know a

green banana, you know. You know, did

you ever give up on yourself or did you

ever doubt yourself while you were out

in LA? Yeah, definitely a bunch of

times. It's tough when you're just not

getting the the it's not working and you

want to tell everyone that it is

working, but it's hard. It's a lot of

rejection and you end up like you just

trying so hard and you go I know what I

want but it it takes it takes so much

time to get there but in the meantime

you have to take auditions. You you have

to cuz I was like I I didn't want to

take acting lessons cuz I read somewhere

that James Dean would go to acting class

and just watch and never do the acting

lessons and I like James Dean for some

reason. So I would go and I just sit in

the back of the and watch everybody. And

finally the acting teacher came up to

me. He's like, "Are you sure you want to

do this? Because I mean, you can get so

much more out if you did this and

started working with other actors. I

think you should because you're a

stand-up comedian. You don't perform

with anyone. You're by yourself on

stage. I think you should learn how to

act with other other actors." And I was

like, "Yeah, maybe he's right." Like I'm

I'm not James Dean. So, I started acting

and then you realize, "Oh gosh, I'm

really not good at this. I got to learn

how to do this. It's a skill to play off

of other people and to listen to other

people." So, then I started doing

auditions because that's my manager

would get me an audition for movies and

stuff. And I think my first audition was

to play a lifeguard in the Brady Bunch 2

movie or something. And I had to say

like one line like, "Get out of the

pool." Something like that. And uh so I

remember going and my my my line was

printed on fax paper. They faxed it over

when fax machines were a thing. And so I

had and they they would tell you bring

in the paper when you do the audition.

Hold the lines so that they don't think

that you're off book so they think that

you have a chance of getting better. I

go okay great. So I'd hold the paper and

I go and action. I go get out of the get

out of the pool. Go. Okay. You want to

just do it one more time? I go,

"Okay." It's quiet and it's just so

awkward. And I go, "Get out of the

pool." Or whatever it was. And she goes,

"Okay. Uh, bye-bye." It actually said,

"Bye-bye." And I was like, my face got

red. I got so embarrassed. And I got

back to my apartment and my manager

called me and I go, "Uh, did you hear

feedback?" She goes, "Yeah, you didn't

get it. Uh, they said that." Weirdly,

she goes, "They said you're uh too

green." And I go, "Okay." She goes, "But

we have to work on it, you know, just

keep doing it and keep doing auditions

and working on these lines and you

should get an acting coach and go bring

the lines to the acting class and go

here's can you do get out of the pool,

you know, whatever better." So, it just

got over and over again you get rejected

and you you wouldn't get parts. I got no

parts. I probably auditioned for, you

know, 30 shows and movies and stuff like

that. And I you just kind of It's tough.

It's really tough. say anyone going into

the business or acting or or any of that

stuff, the entertainment stuff, you're

gonna get beat up. Really, it's going to

be to the point where you're like, I'm

so depressed I can't do it. But just

know that if you can just get through it

and keep working eventually, whatever it

is is going to happen in life will work

out. Maybe you won't even be an actor,

but maybe you'll be a lighting director.

Maybe you'll work on sets. Maybe maybe

it won't be acting, but it will get you

to where you're supposed to be if you

just keep going and keep doing. I just

kept kind of telling myself that. And I,

you know, I ran out of money. And I was

like, I'm going to have to go

home to live with my parents and

probably go back to college if I can if

they can let me back in. And I think I

even might have looked into it. But I

was just so bummed out because that's

not what I wanted at all. I wanted to be

on Siren Live. And um you know it's just

reality was like oh you almost didn't

feel like of living in this world cuz

it's like people couldn't believe that

they're like that's not reality. You

can't just say I'm going to be on

Saturday live. I remember going to my

ground's class my first teacher who's

great. His name is Jim Wise and he goes

uh what do you want to do? And he would

go around the horn and people like I

want to be in movies. I want to be in a

TV show. I want to be in a sitcom. And I

said I want to be on Saturday Night

Live.

like that's very specific. That's like

it's one in a zillion. That's what I

want. Like and he brought that up to me.

He brings it up every like I'll never

forget that you said that that's what

you wanted to do. And that was my

ultimate ultimate. I said if I do

nothing else in life, that's all I

wanted to do. And like even if that if I

got on for one season or one episode,

then I could do whatever I could. I I

didn't care what I did after that. That

was what was the fixation with Saturday

Night Live? I think my parents loved it

and and their friends loved it, but that

was what they would watch and that was

like the pinnacle of comedy. That was

the best comedy show in America. And so

that was the best. So it's like playing

for the greatest team, you know, playing

for the Yankees or, you know, whatever.

I don't know soccer, but Arsenal, I have

no idea.

Manchester United. Oh, Manchester

United. You couldn't help yourself. Oh

my gosh. But yes, playing for that.

You're playing you want to play play for

the best. If you can make it

there, that's the best team. Then you

could do whatever for that if you play

for Manu. But it's slightly different

with you because a lot of upcoming

football players would be happy to play

for any Premier League team. Man United

is, you know, of course great, but they

would aim for any Premier League team

ways. You seem to be like religiously

intent on it being Saturday Night Live.

Yeah. Had to be that because I think

that's what we we would watch, we would

talk about as a family. As kind of a

family. Yeah. As a family. They would uh

they would tape it. You know, we were

one of the first families to have a VCR,

which is uh anyone young listening to

this podcast, a video cassette recorder.

So, it would tape. It's like a DVR

digital video recording. So, it's a

video cassette and you would tape it on

these giant tapes and they would record

two hours, you know, on television. And

so, we would tape the show and then you

could rewatch it and then I would

rewatch it and study it and watch the

sketches over and over again and watch

repeats and watch the greats and watch

Belushi and Dan Akroyd and people I want

Bill Murray and Steve Martin, people I

wanted to be like. As it got into high

school, I was taping it, watching the

best sketches, and I would go to my

friend's party and show the best sketch

that week and go, "Oh, this is the best

sketch. It's Chris Farley, and it's blah

blah blah." Or, you know, I I I would be

obsessed that way. I be almost became so

obsessed in high school that I couldn't

really hang out with anyone while I

watched the show because I didn't like

it if anyone didn't like the show. And

my parents used to let me drink if I

stayed in the if I stayed home. So if I

didn't go out, they would buy me a

six-ack of beer and I could drink at

probably, you know, 16 or something or

something like that. you know, not the

smarts, but but they would, you know, I

would hang out with my friends and they

would say, "Yeah, they're gonna have a

couple beers and, you know, but I would

watch Siren Live with a six-pack and

watch it and um study it." And I ended

up just stopped watching it with anyone

else. I, you know, I guess I still

drank. That's sad to say. I drank by

myself, but uh I became an alcoholic at

16. Uh uh but but it was it was a thing

that I would do and I would just study

it and I would every Saturday night and

it continuing into college my friends

would have parties and they go you got

to come right I go I'll be there at 1:00

they go you no the parties you got to

come I go Saturday live can't go they go

just tape it go I can't just tape it I

have to watch it live obsessed yeah I

was beyond

obsessed obsessed Without a doubt, that

was it. That was the pinnacle.

Like even I went on like an NBC tour

with my dad, like a bus trip to New York

City and took me on a tour of NBC to see

Siren Live and you know, this is I was

older. I was just so nervous to go in

the building and oh my gosh, this is the

building. This is what it looks like.

And this is the, you know, the the the

the doorway and the revolving door. I

know all this and I know everything. I

know the what the walls look like. I

know what the ceiling is painted like. I

know art deco decor, you know, I knew

everything. I geeked out and I was like,

this is the best day just going on tour

there. Now I've worked there for 20

something years, you know, it's my home.

I I've been working in that building

since 1998. I don't even think about it

anymore. That's the door I go into work.

Every now and then I'll walk to you know

I I walk to work almost every day but

I'll get that feeling again like oh yeah

don't lose that. This word obsession it

seems to be earlier when I said you know

the principles of all the

characteristics that got you to to where

you are today but clearly obsession is

one of them. I mean you're you're

obsessed to an extent that I didn't

actually realize with becoming a host on

Saturday Night Live. Yeah. An obsession

is a powerful force isn't it? because it

it means that one can bang their head

against an immovable object over and

over again until the immovable object

moves out its way. And that's kind of

what you found yourself doing in LA.

You're sat you're going to these

auditions. You're getting rejected. What

was your mental health like in that

period when you're in

LA? Because you're dealing with constant

rejection. You're you're running out of

money. You're contending with having to

go home. It wasn't the greatest and I'm

a pretty positive guy in general, but I

think that was probably my lowest

looking back. I mean, I remember

like, you know, trying to see what

therapy was or if I could afford a

therapist or what that meant or why

because I was just breaking down

mentally of like what what what have I

what have I done? Like what have I done?

And I' I've kind of made these decisions

and I wasn't getting anywhere. And it

was like I mean I

had really kind of no friends and no

social life. Just obsessed with work and

obsessed with standup and trying to make

my act better and trying to see if I can

get on Saturday live and having no money

and just going like what is this all

about? You know, I can't I don't know if

I could afford to keep failing. you

know, I can't live in an apartment if

you don't make money, you know, and I I

can't can't afford gas to get to the

audition. You can't eat. You you just

like you just go, "Oh, yeah. I just got

to keep doing gigs, but I'm running out

of space, so maybe if I go home, I can

go back to doing like these little clubs

and make some money, save up money, then

go back out and try again in LA." I

remember they became a moment where I'm

like, "Oh, I think I wrote a letter to

my best friend like I'm losing it,

dude." And in fact, I know I did because

he still has the letter and he works for

our show now. And he says, "I have it

and I'll publish it one day. I'll give

it to people if I need the money. I I'll

I'll I'll release your letter you

emotionally broken." I go, you know, but

that's what best friends do. They hold

it over your head. He's a sick dude.

Yeah, exactly. I'll sell it on eBay. And

I go, gosh. I mean, you know, it's one

of those embarrassing things. I probably

wish I didn't write that. But what did

he say?

I go, I I don't even ask, but I think it

was something to the point like I'm

losing it and I don't know if I can make

it and I have I don't know what else to

do with my life. And you know, something

to that

or effect or you know, I miss college. I

miss my I miss you. I miss having

friends. I miss going out. I miss, you

know, I think it was that it was like

maybe regretting my decision to to move

to LA. Was there anything that this

Jimmy might go back to that Jimmy and

say to him at that time if you could

to a message that maybe he needed to

hear that he wasn't

hearing? Maybe advice or Yeah. I mean,

of course, the advice would be like,

"It's going to be

okay." You know? I I I I think probably

the best would to go back and be like,

"Hey, I'm proud of you, dude. Like,

you're doing exactly what you have to

do. You're doing what you have to do to

become me. So, I'm so proud of you. So,

keep it up." you know, you

know, I mean, I would all the things

that like I remember just in LA and like

I remember like finding cardboard boxes

that were thrown out in this garage next

to me and bringing that in, not dirty or

anything, but new boxes, and I would put

sheets over and they would become

tables. So, I would use that as like

kind of an end table next to my bed,

stuff like that. And you go, "Oh, yeah,

those are It's creative. You know, it

could you could look at it so sad to

talk about now and go, "Oh my god,

you're by yourself. You had cardboard

boxes as tables and you go, I didn't

think about that. I was just trying to

be that would look nice if it had a

sheet over it and that looks kind of

cool." It was very kind of dormy, you

know, but I think about I don't know why

it just made me think about it now. I'm

just so maybe I mean having cardboard

furniture was depressing but you know

you know I I think that's where you have

to dig and see if you can make the find

the funny in and go like if you can

perform

now then get ready when if you're if you

get if you step in the ring you're an

animal. Why I'm proud of you?

You didn't quit. you didn't you're

really like against all odds. You're

doing something that no one in the

family has done that none of your

friends have done. You really don't know

where this is going to end. And you're

kind of in adventuring into an odd

place. You're discovering all new stuff

that's never been done. And it's it's

it's it's great to do this because one

day you'll get tested in a different way

and you'll be mentally stronger. And so

I I'm proud of you because this is all

tough now, but it will pay off when when

you need to show your strengths or you

know, it's almost like you're going to

the gym. You know, it will pay off one

day. Like I don't want to do it. I don't

want to run. I don't want to lift. I

don't want to do anything. I don't want

to eat. You go. I know. But the future

me is telling you this is great that

you're doing this because you're going

to have a it's just going to be when

when you need it, you'll be strong

enough. And so I think I was becoming

stronger as I was building it. And uh I

look back and I I wouldn't change

anything. You know, at the time, you

know, if anything,

I you know, I would say I want it to

happen faster, but not really. I think

you have to live through all the stuff

and go, "Oh, now I remember that. That

was cringey. Oh, that was rough. Oh, I

remember that. That was bad. But that

was a good one." And then you go, "Oh

yeah, that was another great one." And

then, "Oh, yeah." And then you start

thinking of all these stuff that you

thought was depressing then. It's kind

of charming now. And you go kind of I

love those days. And I love the days

where you bombed and that was the

biggest problem. The biggest problem in

your life was that you didn't do a great

impression of Jerry Seinfeld. Like that

was the biggest problem in your life.

Okay. Then I think your life is pretty

good. Like, dude, you look back and go,

that was it meant so much to me, though.

You know, and I think about that now

with my daughters, you know, they tell

me stuff that's going on in school and

stuff and to me, I'm like, you won't

even see these kids. They mean this will

mean nothing to you. These kids, maybe

you'll be friends with them for life. I

hope that' be great, but I don't think

so. I don't remember anyone. I don't

talk to anyone from my grade school, but

it's the biggest thing in their life

now. So, you can't say that because it's

like, "Dad, this is my life. What are

you talking about? This is the biggest

thing. Like high school is so slow when

you're in high school. Right now, four

years is a joke. Four years is like a

joke to me. I go, "Oh my god, I can do

anything for four years." When you're in

it, it's long. Four years feels like 25

years. You know, could you have imagined

a reality where you didn't end up

getting on to SNL at some point? So, if

we were sat here now, you're 50 years

old and you're sat here and you'd never

done it. I would have done it. But so

this is what I'm I'm getting at is

I would have found a way and done it and

even just walked on or something. I

would have found a way to get on it. I I

would have found some way to either be

an extra or walk in the background or do

something or I I would have There's no

way. There's no way. I I'd have to. But

you're saying if I didn't, what would

happen? or you saying I don't think it

would ever

happen. I had to be on it. I was going

to make it happen and I had to do

it. You know, I don't think there was an

option. I don't think there I would have

done it. I don't think there's ever an

option. I wouldn't ever have been on

that show. I asked the question because

there are areas of my life where I

sometimes reflect and go, I always

thought that that was going to happen.

And the consideration that that might

not have happened makes it's almost like

this like then life wouldn't have been

real. Like then everything I believed

would have been a lie. There's small

things in my life that when you look at

me as a young man and I'm filming myself

pretending that a TV show have asked me

to do something that ended up happening

10 years ago and I go it was that was

always how in my brain I did that too.

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I I think a lot

of us performers have done this where

you interview yourself and you pretend

you're on a radio show and you go like,

"Here I am. I'm counting down the top 10

songs and here's the and I have

cassettes of me doing that." You know, I

think a lot of people do that. When I

ask you the question about SNL, you are

so convinced that that's always the way

that it was going to go. And I'm like,

that's what I'm trying to I wanted to

see your reaction when I make you

consider that it didn't go that way.

I can't see it not happening. I had to

It was going to happen. I I don't know.

I I don't know if I can tell you

honestly that I could imagine another

path. I I don't even know if I could

fake it cuz I would be lying. I know I

would be on Sarah. I have to. I just

That was I I can't even I can't lie and

say, "Well, I guess I could have done

it." I just know. So, how did you go

from that kid who's writing the letter

to his friend saying that he's

considering giving up and seeking out

therapy and those kinds of things? How

did you get from that moment to that

first Saturday Night Live audition? I

think you get little things, little good

things happen to you. You were going to

use the word luck, right? It sounded

like you paused on the word luck there,

but uh I could use luck, but I I'm just

going to say good things. I mean, it

probably is luck. I I I feel like I am a

lucky person, but I think they're just

like uh like you I I think I got a

holding deal at Warner Brothers

television to do like to act for a

sitcom or something. Even though I

didn't want a sitcom, I remember putting

in the contract

that if I get Siren Live while I'm doing

the sitcom that I can contractually get

out. And they said, "No, that's the

whole reason. No, no one can. You

can't." I go, "Well, that's that's the

only reason I could I have to get this

in this clause in my contract." And they

said, "No one's ever asked for that, but

um okay." So, they put it in my

contract. So if I was on the show, the

show didn't get picked up. But if the

show got picked up and I got a chance to

audition for Sent Live, I could leave

the show contractually cuz they were

like, it's just no, it's not going to

happen. But so I I ended up acting and

getting a little money which is great

because it actually I could stay at my

apartment and actually still work on my

goal of Sarah live you know while not

doing I didn't want to act in sitcoms

but that that helped

me take a breath and like okay I got a

couple more months

of opportunity

and eventually you get a phone call.

Yes. Um, my manager sent tapes and tapes

and tapes to Sant Live saying, "Can you

know this is he really wants it, blah

blah blah." And so I got an audition for

Siren Live. This was my first of two

auditions. Um, my first one I went to do

standup, my troll bit on stage at the

comic strip here in uh in in New York.

And I remember going in and having my

one outfit that I owned that I thought

was the best and you know some shirt

from the Gap or something and Nike

sneakers that were like such a big deal.

I only wore them on special occasions

and this was it. And uh I went on stage

with my troll doll and I saw Lauren was

in the audience. He had his hat on. He's

the founder creator. Yes. his creative

siren live and now the late night on the

Tonight Show. And I remember going on

stage as soon as I did as I did my first

impression, I knew it just didn't work

if I didn't have the audience. It was

cut down from a 10-minute act to I think

3 minutes. And I had to catch the

audience, hook them in 3 minutes and

leave. And I started the first 20

seconds. I could tell this is bad. And

it was sweaty. It was a bad audition.

And I left and I go and we went to a

diner next door to the club with my

manager and I had coffee and it was very

depressing like wow that was my this

that was it that was my just for

Saturday Night Live. Lauren Michaels

who's the creator of the show was there

that was my big opportunity and I blew

it. All right, let me figure it'll be

fine. Let's figure it out. Went back to

LA. They said you didn't get it. How did

that feel?

For some reason at that point I don't

remember I was a bit numb I think

then and I think I was

on I was starting to work on my act and

really getting into standup and I just

kind

of kept thinking in my

head I have to get another

shot another chance

at auditioning or showing them what I

could really do because that was just

not the best that I could do. But it

wasn't too long after that where I got

another phone call from Sarah. How old

were you when you got that second call?

23.

So I heard you had said um that if you

didn't make it on SNL before the age of

25, you were going to I was going to

kill myself. Were you actually? Yeah, I

wrote that in something in some journal

or something. You wrote what? If I don't

get on Sent Live by the age of 25 that

I'll I'll kill myself. Did you mean

that?

Yeah, I did. But again, I knew that I

was going to be on Sar Live, so I guess

I didn't really mean it because I I was

going to be on Sar Live before I was 25.

So crazy. I I just I I knew that I was

going to be honest, so I wasn't really a

threat. So funny. Do you know what's

funny is the um actually it's in my book

behind there. There's a screenshot of my

diary and in the front page of my diary

it says before I'm 25 and it has my goal

written in the front of my diary and

I've published it in my book which is on

the shelf

somewhere. Isn't that funny that I had

the same thing where I'm like before I'm

25 years old I will have to do this.

Yes. Yeah. And it's and and it happened

thankfully. But did you think in your

when you were typing? I didn't say I was

going to kill myself, but yeah, I don't

I think I typed it out, but again, I was

into computers, so I think I typed it. I

think it's on some file somewhere. Okay.

I think I said I will kill myself. Um

but uh I definitely said, you know,

uh yeah, 25 was my thing. I started my

first business at 12 years old and then

I started more businesses at 14, 15, 16,

17 and 18. And at that time, what I

didn't realize is that being a founder

with no money meant that I also had to

be the marketeteer, the sales rep, the

finance team, customer service, and the

recruiter. But if you're starting a

business today, thankfully there's a

tool that wears all of those hats for

you, our sponsor today, which is

Shopify. Because of all of its AI

integrations, using Shopify feels a bit

like you've hired an entire growth team

from day one, taking care of writing

product descriptions, your website

design, and enhancing your products

images, not to mention the bits you'd

expect Shopify to handle, like the

shipping, like the taxes, like the

inventory. And if you're looking to get

your business started, go to

shopify.com/bartlet and sign up for a $1

per month trial. That's

shopify.com/bartlet.

And you get the second call for the

second audition around 23 24 years old.

Yeah. So I then I said, "Do you want me

to do the troll doll?" And they go, "No,

we'd rather you not do the troll dolls

cuz we've seen that already." Okay. Was

that the end of the troll doll? Well,

that was my whole act. I don't have any

I don't have much more. That was that's

all I did was the troll doll act. So I'm

like, what do I do? So, I just kind of

did the troll doll act under a guise of

a different thing where it's like a

celebrity charity or you know, so you

know, I think it was a how you doing?

Here we go. Uh, oh my god. You know, my

mom always told me to, uh, get a lot of

how you doing to get some exercise. And

so she used to say all the time she'd

say, "Why don't you go to the store with

your mother?" And I skinny kid.

And I would say, uh, I'd say, "Uh, why

don't you shut up?"

That That was the big That was my big

moment. That was the biggest moment for

me. That was That's crazy. That was the

moment in the audition too that changed

everything because I was doing a bunch

of impressions and before I did

that I'm so nervous. But now I'm on the

actual stage and you're there and um uh

the producer comes over and says Jimmy

Fallon go yeah come with us. They go

just to let you know Lauren Michaels

doesn't laugh so don't let that throw

you if you're doing your act. They go

great thank you. And then they go now go

get hair and makeup. I go wow cool hair

and makeup. I go get hair and makeup.

They're doing my hair. They're putting

makeup on me because they're

broadcasting my audition to California

so that the heads of NBC can and the guy

and girl doing my hair and makeup go

just so you know Lauren doesn't really

laugh in these auditions so don't let

that throw you when I go okay yeah

that's what I heard great thank you I go

get your microphone on so they're

putting a microphone on me and a mic

pack and the audio goes just a little

advice doesn't really laugh so if you do

your thing I go what is this guy's

problem why is he not laughing he's in

the wrong business. I mean, he's in a

comedy show. And so, as I was doing that

audition, I did an impression of Adam

Sandler, which was what you just played.

And I remember at the time, it was kind

of new because Adam just left Siren Live

and no one was really doing Adam

Sandler. And I was doing, you know,

like whatever. And I remember Lauren

started laughing and I go, "That's cool.

That's a cool story. even if I don't get

sire alive. But I just knew that he

started laughing. He put his head in his

hand and was laughing. And I go, "That's

a good story. I'll tell my kids." I made

Laura Michaels laugh and on on Sarah

Live, on the set of Sarah Live. I wasn't

really on the show, but I was on the set

and uh uh I remember doing that and

feeling good about the audition. Like I

left that going, "That that went as good

as it could go." You know, that was the

best I can that's the best I can give

him. That was it. And I remember one of

the uh producers, Marcy Klein, came up

to me and said, grabbed my hand. She

goes, Jimmy, that was fantastic. You got

to feel good. And I was like, and I just

felt like, okay, if they're saying it, I

feel good. Then you didn't hear I didn't

hear back for a couple weeks or

whatever. It's like it's crazy how long

you wait cuz you and they go, "Look, we

like Jimmy. We saw him at the comedy

club. We were looking for a different

direction, you know, for that audition.

I think they hired Tracy Morgan. So,

they were going in a different

direction, the first audition. But this

one, they called, they go, Lauren wants

to meet you and talk to you. He's going

to be out in LA. And he had an office on

the Paramount lot. And so, I drove into

the Paramount lot. I get my name to the

front gate. It's a great It's a great

studio. It It feels like you're in the

business. I don't know if you've ever

been to the Paramount Lot, but the giant

gates and you you're it's a movie set

and the gates open and you go to a

parking spot like and there's actors

walking around and it just feels like

you're in the business and it's

nerve-wracking. I went into Lauren's

office. He had like a you know some

office on the on the lot and I remember

going into his office and everything was

white and it kind of felt heavenly

almost and you're just like and I sat

across the desk from him and he goes,

"Uh, Jimmy, do you wear wigs?" And I was

like, "Oh, no. I just I do this to my

hair. I just spike it up." He's like,

"No, no, no. I'm saying like for

characters and stuff like do you uh have

you done characters like where you wear

wigs and stuff?" I go, "Uh, no." He

goes, "Because we want you for the

show." And I just think, you know, with

more practice and if you try to do

different PE and as soon as he whatever

he was saying, I couldn't hear. The rest

was slow motion. I was like, "Oh my

gosh." He just said, "I got some life. I

did it. I got Sarah laughed. It's

happening. I couldn't believe it. And I

go, "Okay." And I shook his hand. I go,

"I hope I make you

proud." And I left.

And I think I pulled over to the first

pay phone I could get to and called my

mom. I'm like, I just got sized. And it

was like, you know, you

know, you know, it was just, it's crazy.

The whole thing is crazy. I'm coming

back to New York because I'm going to be

on the show that I tried to be on my

whole life. I did it. It's happening.

And here we go. And it was like, wow.

And I said goodbye to LA and my

roommates and everyone's just so happy

for me.

And and then I went to New York and got

an apartment and in Midtown and it was

the greatest uh thing. I took Silent

Live and went from there and did a

couple movies. I met my wife. It's the

best thing that ever happened to me. And

then uh I didn't work for a while after

the movies and then Lauren asked me to

be on to host Late Night and replace

Conan O'Brien. I did. I worked hard at

that and then I got asked to replace Jay

Leno on the Tonight Show and I did that

and here I am. and I'm host of the

Tonight Show and crazy life and crazy

opportunities and it's just so

interesting and fun. There was a motion

in your face where you talked about

getting SNL and calling your mom. It's

so interesting that it's decades ago.

Yeah. You know, again, like it's the end

of Rocky, you know, it's the thing. It's

like, I did it. It's like,

yes, you know, you you did it. That's

insane. You you you got to be kidding

me. You you you you did it. What we all

said you were going to do, but you went

and actually this is it's

crazy. It's it's not many people get do

this. And I was like, yeah. and to talk

to your mom who was your biggest fan and

always believed in

you, you know, that's emotional and it's

like it's just this is how can this be?

It's just I don't know. It was just un

it's just the whole thing is kind of

crazy. It's it's it's amazing. Is there

anticlimax?

No. Because if you aim at that one goal

and put it on a pedestal for that long

in your life, no. It paid off. It was ex

everything was what I dreamt. It was

crazy. Everything. Uh the the announcer

Jimmy Fall and him saying my name. I was

like dreamt of it. He was really saying

it. I could watch him. I enjoyed every

second of it. Every bit. The internet

was happening at the time. And then

people started getting sending me fan

letters and then web pages and it was

just like you started getting famous.

And here's the New York City street. I

walked on not too long ago being kind of

afraid and intimidated. Now I'm walking

and people are going Jim, you know, and

and it's and it's cool and you go,

"Yeah." What weren't you prepared for?

Getting

rejection, you know, getting your

sketches cut, being told you're not

funny, you know, haters. This is before

Twitter and all that stuff, which is a

different ball game that I wasn't ready

for either. But you you think that it's

just going to be, oh, this is cool.

Everyone will be great. But then just

people not everyone's rooting for you.

You some people want you to fail.

People's jobs are to take me down, you

know, and and to put bad press out and

stuff. It's just that's their job. And

that's and you're just like, oo, I

didn't think it was I I don't live in

that world. I don't believe that it's

real, but it kind of is real. and you

go, "Oh, people are just going to be

mean." And you got to again just toughen

up and get through it and just keep your

head down and keep being funny and just

keep doing things and keep keep being

creative and just if you move that out,

you realize it's not even real. That's

not it's it's real, but it's noise and

it's just it doesn't affect you. Uh you

can only believe in yourself and and

know that you have to keep going and if

you keep scoring that will show. your

work will show that that stuff I wasn't

prepared for of of dealing with the

overcoming that you know overcoming

that.

Yeah. Overcoming like hating on you or

or you know saying you're not good or

something. It's like you don't think

that's going to happen, but it, you

know, it will if you're successful

because someone will be like,

uh, you know, someone's not going to

like you no matter what. As someone

that's always trying to please, is that

the antithesis of pleasing for for one's

brain who is orientated towards making

people happy? It's the worst. Yes, it is

the absolute worst. You're I hate it. I

I want everyone to like me. I I can't

stand it. I go, "Oh my gosh, what can I

do to make you like

me?" I think the answer is you can't you

can't make everyone like you. You just

have to do what you do and do the best

that you can at what you do and be happy

with yourself.

I mean, like, what's the what's the

alternative? The alternative is you you

quit. You Yeah. you quit or you you you

change you to be I guess what the person

who hates you likes and someone else

will just hate that then what yeah the

original people will will hate that that

you change and you go oh yeah I mean I

and then you'll hate yourself yeah I

mean there's I used I I love music but I

remember like I love the Beasty Boys um

growing up and there's that one line

Mike D says like um be true to yourself

and you will never fall And it's like

kind of is the

move. It's just be that's be true to

yourself. Then there's no everyone can

say whatever they want. It's like that's

who I am. How did you cope with that

stardom being thrust into public

spotlight? You're getting feedback from

everywhere. You're getting the good, the

bad, the ugly. You're someone that wants

to please. Do you Did you seek any

professional help? Did you get any

support? No. No. I just kind of live

through it and go like,

"Yeah, I think I'll I'll figure it out."

You know, I think fame was fun, you

know? It's it's cooler. It's cooler than

cool. It's like, "Wow, this is what I

thought it would be." But it's

also at the end of the day, it's it's

the work and the the I than the stuff

that you do and the stuff that comes out

of it where I'm most proud of where I'm

like, "Oh, I get to do this. I think

this bit could be fun." You know, like I

remember we had Mick Jagger on the show

and Lauren said, "Mick, we'll do a

sketch if anyone has an idea." And they

go, "I could do an idea where I'm the

reflection of Mick Jagger in the

mirror." And I'm like, "You know what?

Why don't shut that what?" And Lauren

goes, "Please don't do that. Absolutely.

Please, please don't do that." He goes,

"It's been done. The Mark's brothers

have done it. It's just Lucille Ball is

just it's been done. Don't please don't

do that." I go, "Okay." He goes, "But go

pitch Mick ideas." I go, "I don't want

to pitch him ideas. I'm You're the

producer. I'm nervous. I don't I don't

know MC Jagger. He's like, "Just go in

and pitch me the ideas." I go, "So, I

wrote out like 10 ideas." I'm like, "Uh,

hi Mick." He's like, he's very nice. And

uh and I go, "Um, you know, I was

thinking maybe me and you uh I play you

play Keith and I'm you and you know um

we work at a you know, sunglass hut or

something like that." And he's like,

"Not that." And I go, "Uh, well, then I

have this other idea, you know, where,

you know, you and I work in an ice cream

shop, but we're, you know, blah, blah,

blah." And he's like, "Nah, nah, I don't

really like that. I don't not I don't

want to do that." And I go, "All right."

Um, and I'm going down the list and the

ideas are getting worse and worse. And

I'm just like, "Oh my gosh." And then

out of desperation, I go, "Or we could

do something where you come in your

dressing room and I'm your reflection in

the mirror and you're like, "What? Why

am I doing this shot? Done in the 70s

and done in the ' 80s and what why am I

doing that? Walmart that. And he goes,

"Oh, I like that." And I go, "So I go

back to Lauren's office. I go, "Good

news, bad news. Good news. Mick wants to

do a sketch. Bad news is it's the mirror

sketch." And he So Lauren was like,

"Okay, we'll do it." And uh we wrote it

in a night, which never been done, I

don't think, when I was on the show. We

wrote it on a Thursday night, rehearsed

it once on Friday, and did the show on

Saturday. And it worked. And it really

worked. It was might be the one of the

best sketches I was ever in. And Mick

was so happy that he like was so giddy.

And he kind of shook my hand through the

mirror, which is funny cuz we I'm

supposed to be his reflection. And it

was just kind of cool. And I I remember

one of those things where I'm like the

room was shaking and I go, "That's

cool." Like, dude, that's beyond what I

dreamt I I could do. You know, being on

S Live is one dream, but now you you're

doing it sketch with one of your rock

idols, you know, and and scoring and

it's great. It's really funny and

everyone's having a good time. Like, you

really like But that's something. And it

was wasn't meant to be. It wasn't

written. It was all just kind of

happened last minute. And you know, but

those little moments all kind of add up

and you go, "Oh my gosh, this is so

crazy that this is all happening." How

was that? I was looking before you

arrived at all the people you've

interviewed going back more than a

decade and it's just everybody. It's

like Floyd Mayweather to you insert the

name of the person who's at the top of

an industry. You've sat with them.

They've been on your show. I was

thinking like how has that altered your

perception of not just what fame is but

like what life is about because you've

met the best of the best, the top of the

top, the richest of the rich, the most

famous of the

famous. I'm interested, you know, in

people, whoever it may be, whether it's

Bruce Springsteen or, you know, Angelina

Jolie or something, you know, you're

talking to them just

like talk to me about this thing or what

I don't know. It's like uh also with my

show I got to jump right in. I have

probably Yeah. 10 minutes interview, you

know, which is you got to get in there

fast and you go like I got to make them

comfortable and know that I'm not going

to make them look bad. I just want to

talk to them and go like, "Hey, blah

blah blah." Or I'll make a thing or I'll

just say some joke or I don't know what

I'll do. And they're like, "Really?" And

then they'll be themselves. And then you

go, "Now it's flowing." and you go,

"Yeah, yeah, yeah." And then you can get

into the movie talk and you know, you

know, and sell the product or whatever,

you know, which is whatever. But it's

that first kind of five to seven minutes

where you get in there and then you

start playing with them and you start

like if you can get a laugh out of Floyd

Mayweather or something, it's cool. How

do you make them feel comfortable? Is

this You must have something that you

have learned about what it is that makes

someone feel comfortable. I don't know.

Oh, I don't have an exact recipe. I I

will tell you that I go in before the

show to their dress room to say hello

before the show. Okay. Just to say hi,

how's it going? Then I'll just talk to

them. Sometimes I talk to them longer

than the interview cuz I we'll get

talking about something or life or some

bit or you know, you know, their parents

or something, you know, just get into

real life talk and by the time they come

out, they feel like we've already

talked. So, it's less pressure. I think

also after 16 years of talking to I've

seen everyone at their highest. I've

seen everyone at their lowest. I've seen

people date people they shouldn't date.

I've seen people get married and have

babies and just really fun to watch. And

it's fun to go back and now even if I

see these people once a year, twice a

year, I feel like I know them a little

bit and you're like, "Oh yeah, Floyd,

good to see you. What's up?" Or Mick,

you know, you know, how's it going? has,

you know, has your kids what, you know,

we can just talk and we're caught up and

you're like, "Oh, yeah." And it's kind

of feels like maybe it doesn't to them,

but to me it's it's it feels like I just

saw them yesterday and that we're, you

know, even though it's probably I

haven't seen them in a year, it feels

like I just saw you. They go, "Oh,

yeah." How do you stop it from getting

old? And I say this because I um

obviously have been doing this podcast

now, really for about four years. That's

really that I consider the starting

point when we started on YouTube. And I

wonder what I've got to do to make sure

that I never get bored of doing this. I

don't think you ever will. There's just

so many interesting people. Yeah,

there's so many people in this world and

it's it it doesn't end. I mean, four

years. I'm trying to think of where that

was. That was round at the end of late

night for me. I mean, you're just you're

you're doing all the things. You're

you're just expanding. I mean, but

you're working hard. I mean, you're

you're trying. I think just keep trying.

If you stop trying, you get boring

tomorrow. But here you are in New York

with 10 cameras. I mean, you're not in

London. You're not in your kitchen. This

is fake. Don't Don't break the illusion.

This is fake. This wall's not real. This

is not This is There's a light here.

This is all fake. This is all a fake

thing. This is how This is how you don't

make it old. You don't You have to work.

This is all nothing here is real. This

is all a studio. But that's how you make

it now. Get old. This is Yes. But this

is I think how you make it uh exciting

is you you got to put the work in. Don't

get tired. You got to show up and you

you always got to show up. You got to be

there and you got to be there for your

uh audience. And you do that. You you

show up. You you you do all the stuff. I

mean, you have to. And that's like you

said, it's kind of a seven days a week

thing, but it's every day you go, what

can I do? What can I do? What can I do?

It just becomes part of your life. It's

brushing your teeth. It's like, oh yeah,

I guess brushing your teeth. Someone at

one point told me I had to do that. You

know, but now I do it every day, so I

don't think about it. I brush them three

times, four times a day. Now I'm like,

how do you keep yourself challenged?

Uh, is there something that you're doing

to to push yourself? because you know we

expand around the world. We go to

different places. We have increasingly

more interesting different guests and

challenge ourselves in that way. But you

when I looked at your show I was like he

started with the biggest in the world. I

know you started in the biggest city in

the world. Start putting more pressure

on yourself for any little challenges or

trying something. You go like I've

always wanted to put out a Christmas

album, you know, uh and and and just

come out with and and write original

songs. You know, trying to write songs

is hard enough. trying to write 20

original Christmas songs. It's insane.

And what's what's what hasn't been said?

I have an idea for a kids book that I

think could be funny, you know? Yeah,

data was the first one that was a big

deal. It's really the same word on every

page. It's just getting your kid to say

dada. So, I thought that no one's done

this. So, I go basically if you get to

the end of the book, it's you saying the

word da so many times that I think your

baby has to eventually just go da da.

So, it'll work. But then you released

Mama. I had to because my wife

and and all my female fans were like,

"Really? You have two daughters and

you're not going to write mama because

this is the real truth. Everything is

mama." So, that's kind of the same book

except I changed it to you want the kids

to say dada and they just keep saying

mama. I have a I found some wonderful

photos of your childhood which I adored.

Go these photos. You probably recognize

quite a few of them. Did I post these?

Where would you find these? I went

through your house. Oh my god. This is

my Catholic uh teacher, kindergarten

teacher. Um that's Mrs. Fulling. That's

Frank Gentiel we talked about earlier.

Friend Steve Tabboutout. These are my

dorm room friends. I would do stand up

with Frank and Steve was kind of the

artist in the group. Is that Gloria

underneath? This is Yeah. Gloria. Yeah,

that's my mom. That's my mom in our

kitchen. Um where we spent many a time.

We we parted many times in that kitchen.

In November 2017 when she passed away,

you said as a tribute on the Tonight

Show, which I watched, the best

audience, referring to your mother that

she was the best audience. She was the

one I was always trying to make laugh.

Mom, I'll never stop trying to make you

laugh. And I heard you talk about

squeezing her hand three times when you

were younger and her squeezing yours

back. In a fraction of like public

attention I've experienced, one of the

things that acts as an insulator to all

of that for me is knowing that I have a

home to return to. And home for me isn't

a place, it's people, you know? Yeah.

And that's the thing that makes all of

the noise feel fake and like it's not

real and that there is something real.

And so when I was thinking about all of

that and you losing her and her being

the audience, her being home for

you,

I I have to understand like how that

changed