So there's two ways to kind of measure

where you are in this journey of finding

meaning, of searching and finding for

meaning. The two ways to do it are

what's called search and presence.

>> Search is how intensively you're looking

to answer these why questions. You know,

why do things happen the way they do?

Why am I doing what I'm doing? And why

does my life matter? Right? That search.

And some people are intent seekers like

you, Tim. You're an intent seeker.

>> This show is an exercise in search. Yes.

And part of it is because this is not

just a new hack for getting better

biceps. This is a new way of trying to

understand why why we're alive.

>> That's what this show is. Kind of the

theme of the show. It's why I listen to

the show. This is why I learn things cuz

I'm a seeker, too.

>> But then how successful you are is your

presence. Search and presence.

>> Presence is I have answers that are

satisfactory to me.

>> As you get older, if you seek, your

presence score should go up. And mine

certainly has. So is a presence presence

of meaning. Make sure I'm understanding.

One is seeking an answer

>> and then presence is accepting having

something as satisfactory. All right.

Got it.

>> Is having satisfactory. Now there's some

people who have skyhigh presence scores

and really low search scores. Those are

people who like those fortunate

individuals who are born going, "Yep, I

know. I know. I'm not going to leave my

hometown. Why am I going to leave my

hometown? It's awesome here." Right?

What do I need to do? I'm going to marry

my high school sweetheart. I'm going to

work in my daddy's business and I'm

going to go to the church I grew up in.

And they're very very stable. We think

of these as conservative individuals.

Dispositional conservatives. They tend

to have low search and high presence.

>> Right? And to be clear, this is not

>> this is not political political.

>> It might be, but that's not really the

point, right? I'm talking about

dispositional conservatism is conserving

good things that preceded you.

>> And why are they good things? Cuz they

give you meaning of life is kind of what

it comes down to. On the other hand, you

might be somebody who's a seeker,

seeker, seeker, seeker, seeker, and you

don't find it very much. And I'm a I'm

very moderate in presence. It's higher

than it used to be. My presence of

meaning was in the cellar when I was in

my 20s for sure. And in my 60s, it's

much much higher for sure. But it's

still not, you know, what do you

attribute the improvement to is being

alive and actually searching a lot and

looking at data and optimizing and

trying to live a life on purpose is

self-managing. I mean, I'm a behavioral

scientist because I want answers and I

want answers for me. I'm looking for the

biggest questions to answer to at least

address the biggest questions of my

life. That's why I do what I do for a

living.

>> Mhm.

>> My life is an experiment, a pure on

revolving adventure. So, I'm curious if

I can just interject for a second about

the present piece specifically because I

think many people listening to the show

will selfidentify as seekers,

>> right? But there are traps along the way

>> as you identify as a seeker.

>> And I talk about these in the book.

Yeah.

>> And I'll just tell one quick anecdote

and then I I'd love to hear how you have

improved or whether it's just been not a

passive but something that has unfolded

for you, the presence piece

specifically. I remember talking to a

very very experienced

psychedelic therapy facilitator who's

who's been doing it for many decades,

thousands and thousands of different

people in sessions. And they told me a

story which they said is is common and

becoming more common that people will

come in and after their session they'll

say yeah I was experiencing so much joy

this beautiful light this love in the

session but I kept wondering when I was

going to do the real work like when I

was going to do the hard work

>> and the way the facilitator explained it

was in a sense more and more so she's

running into people who are in pursuit

of this durable

contentment, satisfaction, joy. But when

they experience it in these sessions,

they're like, "Yeah, I'll get this out

of the way so I can do the hard work to

reach the joy." But they're just pushing

aside all the joy. Yeah.

>> As they continue their endless seeking.

>> They're just not going to take yes for

an answer.

>> Right. So, I'm wondering how you learn

to take yes as an answer.

>> It's not easy because when you're a

chronic seeker, there's always something

more. There's always something new and

you can't be there yet. The answer to

this actually comes two of my kids are

Marines

>> and so I have one enlisted Marine, I

have one officer in the Marine Corps

>> and my daughter's a second lieutenant in

the Marine Corps and she's right now

she's in Quanico and she's going through

the basic school, you know, getting

ready to do her her MOS. She wants to be

a signals intelligence officer. My son

was enlisted. He was a scout sniper. He

was in a scout sniper platoon out of

Camp Pendleton. And that's a super

interesting and dangerous job as a

non-commissioned officer. you led a lot

of guys what they train Marines to do in

leadership is to get to 80% knowledge

and then choose and stop looking.

>> Mhm.

>> Now that's really really important

because you're going to be paralyzed if

you're trying to get to 100% knowledge

going

>> which is what the pure seeker mentality

does. If you want to seek and get higher

presence you need to go to 80%.

>> Now how do you get to 80%. You get to

80% by saying, "I'm pretty sure this is

right

>> and this is right enough that I'm going

to turn my attention to another

dimension on this." And that means

friends, if you're in love, you should

get married. That's what that means.

>> Wow.

>> That means if you're in love and you

know each other and you think that

within 3 to 5 years, you really could be

best friends.

>> Yeah.

>> And you have a certain stability of

values, stop looking.

>> Yeah.

>> Get married. Why? Because the longer you

don't get married, the longer you're in

search for your soulmate, the more

you're putting off the best thing in

your life. You're postponing the best

thing in your life. Marriage is the best

thing in life for most people. I mean, a

bad marriage is the worst thing in life,

right? But for most people, this is the

for men and women. All this fiction

about the fact that marriage is good for

men, but bad for women, it's all

nonsense. Brad Wilcox's research at

Virginia is completely clear on this.

It's better for everybody. Being in love

and living with the person with whom

you're in love for the rest of your life

is great,

>> but you're not going to get that if

you're trying to get to 99% awareness

>> if you're going to search all the way to

the point because you'll never get that.

You're going to have an argument. You're

going to have a disagreement. You're

going to have doubts. You're going to

digest something in a weird way and

think maybe I'm not in love.

>> And the same thing is true with your

faith.

>> What am I going to practice? get to 80%

awareness and choose and then decide

that that's what you're actually going

to do. Use the marine rule of leadership

and then the search can actually lead to

presence.