I want to go through these five habits

that make people instantly dislike you

yes yes so these are tiny little things

that a lot of people do without even

realizing that they're doing this sort

of stuff first one is oh my God so true

Charlie hoopert is a leading expert in

Charisma and confidence his insights and

practical techniques have helped

millions of people Master communication

and body language to thrive in both

personal and professional relationships

how important is charisma and confidence

it's perhaps the most underrated piece

of success and it's the ability to speak

with conviction the ability to influence

someone ability to connect with people I

mean look at Donald Trump he talked his

way into the literal presidency of the

United States of America it's so

incredibly powerful and is it something

that you can learn yeah and I'm a

testament to that because growing up I

was invisible not making new friends not

forming connections I wasn't dating

because there was this fear that I would

get hurt where did that come from part

of it to the experiences that I had one

of them was being sexually abused and I

felt disgusted with

myself um

I was struggling and frustrated with the

compensations I'd made as a result of it

and so I learned all the tips and tricks

to develop confidence and became a

completely different person and we're

going to go through all of them amazing

so there's prey versus Predator movement

which is tremendously valuable for First

Impressions and then there's the

charismatic traits which women are

attracted to the 60c ACT to establish

trust and respect and then I have six

charismatic mindsets for success and

there's plenty more listen I've got time

okay so let's break it down

I have been forced into a bet with my

team we're about to hit 10 million

subscribers on YouTube which is our

biggest Milestone ever thanks to all of

you and we want to have a massive party

for the people that have worked on this

show for years behind the scenes so they

said to me Steve for every new

subscriber we get in the next 30 days

can $1 be given to our celebration fund

for the entire team and I've agreed to

the bet so if you want to say thank you

to the team behind the scenes at di of

here all you've got to do is hit the

Subscribe button so actually this is the

first time I'm going to tell you not to

subscribe because it might end up

costing me an

[Applause]

[Music]

awful

Charlie hundreds and hundreds and

hundreds and hundreds of millions of

people have benefited from your work and

tens of thousands of people have been

through your University learning about

something if you had to explain in your

own words what it is that you're doing

for those people in a simple way what

would you how would you say that take

all the situations where you're

interacting with another person whether

it's at your work dating friends and

groups and take the times that you're

feeling that you're not grounded in that

sense of confidence that you maybe have

when you're sitting at home on the couch

with your friend or your family and

bring the best version of yourself to

those situations I think a lot of people

also want flowing conversations they

want to feel like themselves they want

to be the person that is respected and

is admired when they walk into a room

they want other people to notice them

that's one of the big ones that we hear

from guys is they want to be the person

that anytime they enter a room that

women and men take notice of them it

usually is an acute thing so a lot of

people show up because there's a girl

that they liked and it's not going well

or something like that or they went out

for a promotion and somebody that they

felt was less qualified that them wound

up getting the job so they come in with

a very

acute social situation that they would

like to change they'd like to get the

girl they' like to get the job theyd

like to be the leader in their friend

group but when people have gone through

the course what I see is they speak more

about a a sense of joy in life and

confidence because I think that if you

feel disconnected from people there

actually read a thing this morning that

some guy said you know I came here and I

started applying your ideas and I got

more tips at my job as a waiter which is

really cool but also I felt as if I'd

fallen into nihilism like I was just

things didn't matter anymore and my

ability to connect with people is

Shifting that for me I feel more

connected less nihilistic it's

interesting because when people hear

words like phrases like body language

and Charisma and confidence they sound

like tips and tricks and stuff but when

I think about the impact that these

things have had on my own life when I

think about even presidential elections

and how our society is is designed and

who Rises to the top and who doesn't so

much of it seems to depend on whether

you understand naturally or through

learning the skills how to be

charismatic confident how to sell how to

get someone else in some situation to

believe you to buy into what you have to

say um so I guess my question to you is

how important is it like and someone

that has the skills that you you teach

people versus someone that doesn't how

much of a trajectory shift is that going

to be do you think on their on their

life to me so there's the external

question of what is it going to allow

you to achieve in the world and then

there there's the internal question of

what is your subjective experience of

your life starting with the internal to

me it's almost everything like you're if

you feel disconnected from the world it

is very very hard to feel good no matter

how much money you have no matter how

much your six-pack abs are working for

you like even if you have agulation and

you have Fame but you feel disconnected

from the people in your life it is very

hard to feel good on the external side I

think it's tremendously underrated and I

think this is why people didn't see

Donald Trump coming because does he have

the best policies does he have the best

record is he of any of these things he

is clearly someone who has gotten to

where he has by talking he talked his

way into the literal presidency of the

United States of America and if I look

just at my own life at people who were

advancing at work and then when I

started focusing on this stuff it was

not the best analyst there was a guy who

was a better analyst than me and he did

not get the off trck promotion that I

got and it was just because I'd made

closer connections with the president of

of the company than he had and so I

think it's wildly underrated I think a

huge myth that people get is that if you

get good grades do what is asked of you

in the job description are generally

kind and friendly and speak honestly

that things are just going to work out

for you but there is a missing piece

which is do other people connect with

you and like you and want you to succeed

and I think it's perhaps the most

underrated piece of success which is why

I put all my attention there this wasn't

like a play at making a lot of money or

having a big YouTube channel it was the

highest leverage point that I felt and

experienced in my own life and is it

something that you can learn that is

yeah I said I said there was a big myth

this is probably the first or second

biggest myth is that you can't learn it

and that I believe that for what 18

years of my life so the the first

portion of my life was Charisma is being

able to throw a football better than the

other kids right Charisma is just the

thing that you have at 13 that I

definitely didn't have and it was only

around 18 1920 that I realized that the

way that I approached people in

conversations

had a dramatic impact on the responses

that I got so it is most definitely

something you can learn I feel like I'm

a testament to that and you know people

have gone through the course uh also

feel that and if someone hasn't seen

your YouTube channel what is it you're

doing on that YouTube channel so say

that you know we've got someone

listening now and they've never heard of

your your channel before can you explain

exactly what you've done on that channel

how long you've done it for and how many

situations you've looked at over the

last decade yeah so basically what I

would do is I would look at moments it

started with a Bill Clinton debate that

was the first video that I ever did and

there's this debate moment where Bill

Clinton and George Bush Senior are

having a town hall so it's them

communicating directly with people and

it's known as the moment that Bill

Clinton won the election and it's him

going up to this woman and just she asks

some question about politics or the

thing and he goes up and he says how

does this impact you and he looks her

dead in the eye and you could tell she

just she's feeling it she's connected

with him and he gives his answer so it's

us breaking down those sorts of

interactions some of them are in

politics some of them are on talk shows

and some of them are scripted TV shows

where I'm just saying hey this is

obviously a script but it would work in

real life if you did it like Jon Snow

did in Game of Thrones or something so

we use that sort of as the hook because

you know a lot of people weren't looking

Charisma was not a topic that anyone was

interested in 10 years ago so we would

hook people with Game of Thrones or this

famous person but the content of it

would be how to handle a group

interaction or how to lead more

effectively and these were things that I

wasn't necessarily learning from these

videos but I was learning elsewhere in

my life and then commenting on what I

saw in these videos and that really

connected with our audience and it's

helped us get I think 6.8 million

subscribers at this point it's

incredible and it's actually such an

unbelievably powerful way to do it by

showing both real world examples but

also fictional examples and I was even

watch watching you break down certain

interviews that the famous um Jordan

Peterson interview with Kath Kathy

Newman Kathy Newman that one's great and

you break down exactly what's going on

on kind of both sides and how Jordan

ultimately ends up winning that argument

by um kind of holding his position and

Kathy trying to put words into his mouth

Etc all of those things but you break it

down you break down moments from history

moments that we all know from movies and

tell us exactly what's going on in terms

of like human connection conversation

persuasion leadership influence in those

situations incredibly fascinating so

let's talk about you yeah because people

will look at you now sat here and

they'll think this is a guy that's

always had confident you're a good

looking guy you're someone that is

clearly a great conversationalist you

exude Charisma but if we were to wind

back I know that that's not always been

the case yeah yeah so take me back you

did your research uh so I grew up

extremely shy and still am today in

introvert I mean you could probably see

if you flash five or six minutes back to

the beginning of this interview like I

started off nervous I feel very

comfortable now but my default state is

one of shyness reservedness and

nervousness and so that was just how I

was for the long time and when it came

time to graduate high school they have

these superlatives that they would give

out and I had a class of about 500

people and my superlative was most

likely to break out of a shell in

college so I was well known but I was

well known for not saying a lot so

people like didn't know me and then

voted for me as the person who one day

would show up and reveal themselves to

the world I suppose that didn't happen I

didn't break out of my shell in college

at all uh I continued to do the same I

had a small small group of friends I

wasn't like uh dating or anything like

that and then it was only when I was

about 19 years old that I studied abroad

and had gotten so sick of the experience

for me at that time in my life of having

a massive Crush for usually a year

forming a entire relationship in my head

that we would one day have and then

having that not materialize because they

weren't interested or if they were

interested I could quickly talk them out

of being interested just by my general

awkwardness that had happened so many

times that I was done with it and

frustrated so when I went abroad I made

it a mission to figure out what was

going on and shift it and it was

actually very helpful and when people

ask me how do you begin to change these

things in yourself shifting your

environment is so impactful probably the

one of the most impactful things because

what you don't realize is that your

friend and family who love you very much

tend to not like shifts that you make to

your habits particularly the way that

you socialize with other people but when

I gave myself the freedom of being

abroad I tried everything you know I

worked on my eye contact I read every

book and we just run little personal

experiments some of which didn't go well

there was one period of time I remember

where the experiment was big eyes and so

I'd like walk around so nice to meet you

and you immediately you immediately

recoil your head I swear I did that

probably for a week until somebody said

dude what are you doing with your eyes

stop really yeah he was a good friend um

I appreciate him for that but it was

just many experiments and I started them

while I was studying abroad and I

continue when I came back but by the

time that I did come back six months or

a year later uh the word in the college

campus was like what happened to you you

are a completely different person you

are outgoing and you seem capable of

talking particularly to women at this

case and then friends were all of a

sudden asking me what should I do and so

that started sort of a second phase of

my life where this was the primary focus

day-to-day you know after like eating

drinking and maybe getting some money in

order to pay my bills other people how

to influence them how to interact with

them how to get better friendships how

to talk my way into a job you know all

of those sorts of things became the

primary focus for me just to spend a

second going back to how what your sort

of internal monologue was like through

the awkward years of your life how did

you how did you feel and what did you

think of yourself like if IID asked you

what do you think of yourself back then

and you were to answer it honestly what

would you

say honestly which I couldn't have done

but I will tell you um ashamed would

have been what I would have said and I

didn't like I didn't know this about

myself

but like I didn't have the right to

speak up like it people wouldn't have

liked it I had I remember I had one guy

and it didn't even bother me because I I

suppose it connected with how I felt but

he said Charlie you're so normal that

you're invisible and I think that was by

Design like blending in became a way to

be unseen and a way to be safe and I

wasn't picked on you know like all of

those things never happen just because I

was there but not in a way that was

noticeable the problem with that is yeah

you're safe you don't get picked on

nothing happens but also nothing happens

right you're not making new friends

you're not forming connections other

people were forming new groups and

expanding and I I was not so there was a

huge disconnect between how I felt in a

more public setting and how I felt in

more intimate private settings and did

you look at some other people who didn't

seem to have those challenges as I don't

know biologically gifted yeah freaks of

nature is that what you thought oh yeah

totally there was there was clearly it

didn't the thought that something could

shift in me to get me to have a

different response didn't occur until I

was 18 or 19 years old and I think

that's a a really important shift for a

lot of people is where you start

recognizing that it's on you it's your

responsibility and the way that I put it

at the time was it's always my fault so

what I carried from 19 to say 28 or 29

was if this interaction with you and I

or anyone doesn't go well there's

something that I could have done

differently in order to make it go well

and so that gave me this fuel to

constantly adjust because I was going

okay that one didn't go great what could

I have done where did it break down it

was three minutes into conversation but

I felt they sort of dropped off when I

started answering that question about my

boring job in a really boring way so let

me in this next interaction talk about

my job in a way that is a bit more

exciting and so I was really spending a

lot of time obsessively reviewing and

talking with my co-founder and best

friend at the time like what happened

where did it break down what could we

try differently and then running these

experiments it was genuinely an

obsession and a thrilling one at at that

what was the difference between the the

guy who went on holiday that day on the

plane versus the guy that came back in

terms of skills or knowledge what was

the actual difference in the person

a willingness to stick your neck out

there was the big thing so one of one of

the primary things that I did when I

went abroad was ask questions that I

otherwise would have kept to myself so I

was in a town a small town of Costa Rica

called Aradia and I showed up I don't

speak Spanish right so there's even more

reason to to oh my gosh I could make a

mistake and it could go really bad and I

could be bumbling but I made a rule that

I was going to ask if I didn't know

where my classroom was I wasn't going to

like sit with my piece of paper and then

try to work it out on the map I was

going to ask a human and when it came

time to figure out where there was a

good restaurant or a good place to go

out at night I was always going to ask

someone and thanks to that habit as well

as the friendliness of Latin

people that extended my comfort zone and

gave me a number of experiences of you

put yourself out there something magical

happens so that that is the easiest tip

that I can give is one more sentence so

when people ask me like what what is

something that I can do to work on my

Charisma I would say you have dozens of

interaction in today if you're in any

sort of populated era you have an

interaction with the Uber driver you

have an interaction with the person

behind the counter you have an

interaction with the person who you get

into an elevator with and there's

usually a prescribed amount of social

interaction that you have maybe it's hey

maybe it's even less than hey the advice

that I give to people is if you want to

get started one more sentence one more

sentence than usual so as you get into

the elevator and the normal sentence is

what floor anything in addition to that

what floor are you in oh have you lived

in this building for a long time you

know and all a sudden you get to know

your neighbors because the person that

is just the elevator person who you're

putting them on floor three now has a

name and every time it sort of uh

compounds and expands and you get to

have a wider Social Circle so that's

just one piece of the things that I

would work on which is one more sentence

with people uh but there's there's

plenty more and I'm happy to dive into

First Impressions and all that kind of

stuff okay so first impr

yeah the big thing that I got wrong and

I see almost everybody get wrong and

it's bad Common advice about First

Impressions is that just the best way to

get people interested in you is to be

interested in them and what I found is

that that is generally true but it

ignores the the realities of status

which is I'm sure you experienced this

with a lot of people come up to you

they're very interested in you but that

doesn't mean that they're going to make

a good first impression on you it means

that you might have compassion for them

it might even means that you might feel

love for them but it does not mean that

you're going to want to follow up and

spend time with them probably you've

experienced I don't want to follow up

with this person and spend time with

them even though I see their sincerity

of their

interest and I've and I've been on both

sides of this right I've been the person

who is so just so interested in you

there's a few things that if you just do

this before expressing your interest in

somebody changes the whole game so fun

trust

respect if you and this can take 60

seconds or less can communicate that you

are fun that the person can trust you

and that there is something to respect

about you and then you express your

interest in that person it will

completely flip the dynamic on its head

so we can break it down please fun

there's a ton of ways to handle this

right you can crack jokes you can do all

sorts of things but the easiest way to

add fun to an interaction is you take

the first question that almost everybody

asks you which is how are you right

these are the gimmies that we just say

fine good how are you oh there's a fire

whatever and be more enthusiastic than

fine I would always say be better than

good so if somebody comes up to you and

they say how are you doing you can be

fantastic or wonderful or great or

ecstatic or electric and there's a whole

separate conversation about how to make

this real inside of yourself because I'm

not asking you to paper over anything I

think that was a mistake that I made

early in my Charisma career of just too

much fake it till you make it but if you

can genuinely cultivate those feelings

and share them that level of enthusiasm

is fun crack a joke you got fun okay

trust this is a lot of non-verbal stuff

you know eye contact body language the

way that you shake someone's hand but it

also comes down to if the person feels

like you are trying to get something

from them and there's a number of things

that tip us off to this but one of these

is when you over qualify yourself which

is in direct competition with this need

to establish yourself right so there's

these we we want to establish that we're

interesting people we have things going

on that you might want to connect with

but if we drift over into name dropping

and selling we're going to alienate the

trust so the place that I focus most on

with people is in most inter places that

I've been how are you where are you from

what do you do are like three of the

most basic questions go to a college

campus it's what's your major we all

have these and you can think of them now

if you're in the audience we have these

things that we hear all the time and we

probably have habitual answers to them

yes and these habitual answers are

usually not great yes M are so bad yeah

I just remembered mine actually people

come up to me and they say God you've

been so busy and then I'll say something

like yeah

always and then the conversation's over

yeah yeah they've got they've got

nothing to hook into or hook onto there

so you're able to get away with that and

one of the things that people do is they

build a tremendous amount of confidence

and power and then all of a sudden you

don't you can drop this to a degree

because people are still interested

because they know you from Dragon Den or

some other things but if you're out

there and you don't have that yet like I

didn't when I was 19 and 20 or you just

want to have more engaging convers ation

and you want to bring in people that you

genuinely connect with reverse engineer

the conversation that you would like to

have so you could one of I have six

charismatic mindsets that I think about

one of them is go there first in

humanizing the interaction and so this

can mean if you're in a group of people

that are all really stiff and nervous

because they don't know if it's okay

crack the first joke be vulnerable first

give the first compliment like lead the

interaction in the way you want to go

because that's what everybody wants like

we don't want to be suits we don't want

to be roles in a company we want to be

humans and that stuff is everybody wants

that and whoever goes first becomes the

leader okay okay so in your interactions

you're getting asked are you busy so if

you could go there first and do the

thing that you're wanting them to do and

work that into the answer of how you're

busy or are you busy that is going to

lead the conversation the direction you

want so as a for instance I don't know

if this is are you busy you know I have

been but one of the things that I've

really been struggling with that I

haven't figured out yet at this point is

you know I'm having some relationship

isses I'm having this or that the other

thing but like sharing the real thing a

level down beneath the surface level

stuff that you're tempted to share with

people is going there first and making

it okay for them to do it and then you

say what about you versus they say hey

uh how's it going you're so busy you're

say oh yeah man been busy how about you

they're just going to match you

especially given your you know your

power as the the leader of the company

they they will just match what you do

but if you go there first you give

people permission to go deeper so a lot

of people for instance what they might

want is they want the thing that they

care about is they care about their job

they love what they do and they're

really interested or maybe they hate

their job and they care more about their

free time and their hobbies and the

extreme sports that they do so in these

questions of how have you been what do

you do where are you from I have a

worksheet in our course that helps

people walk through what a good answer

could be that would leave hooks for the

person that is an extreme sports

Enthusiast or does you know have an

interest in that particular Niche that

they're interested in to hook into but

if you were to ask me where I'm from and

let's say that I want to connect with

you in a number of different ways but

the thing that I really want you to know

is that I have an interesting business I

could say I'm from Philadelphia and

we're

done oh cool I've been to Philadelphia

or no my friend's brother went there is

it cold in Philadelphia like these this

is where we're going to go now we're on

weather and sports which is where most

conversations go

but if I say you know I grew up in

Philadelphia but I never really fit in

there like a lot of the people in that

area wind up spending their whole lives

within 20 minutes of where they were

born and so I traveled throughout my 20s

and lived a bunch of places but I now

live in LA just because it's the right

place for my business and I end there

the next question that is coming from

you is probably oh what's your business

or where did you travel so if I give you

a number of different options to hook

into here you're going to take the one

that you're most interested in M and so

what I would try to do in these answers

with myself and what I advise people to

do is take the three topics that you

know you'd love to talk about like you'd

love to talk about your travels you'd

love to talk about your business and

you'd love to talk about philosophy or

whatever it is and find a way to just

leave little crumbs in these common

answers that give the right person the

invitation to talk to you about that

thing and this is something that I found

really like small talk can suck it's

very draining to sit here and like how

much more can I say about the WEA or

local sports team I can't keep doing it

yeah but when you do these sorts of

things it uh man it opens up the

opportunity for connection so much more

quickly in interaction and I hate small

talk yeah I really hate it I find it

really draining I find it so fake and I

I kind of want to get on to the real

stuff

um so you're saying that's how to do it

to leave sort of crumbs in my response

that will send us down a more

interesting pathway and conversation to

really think through how do I and what

do I want to connect with people over

right it's not the weather and it's not

the local sports team it is in my case I

want to interact with people that uh are

interested in the same sort of like

YouTube space that I'm interested in

that's one of the things beforehand I

thought that I knew about people I like

I could tell who that guy is I know I

know what kind of life he has but when

you start leaving these Clues people

surprise you the like the the types of

connections that come from people that

you wouldn't expect

are I don't know another word other than

like magical it's it's very special to

see that the world is full of

opportunities where once you saw it as I

already know what's coming from this

person it's just going to be a boring

Small Talk conversation and to find that

that person could be someone that you do

business with or become very close to or

winds up being the brother of someone

that you date is is very exciting to me

there there's a real mindset shift in

that like seeing the world differently

as a set of opportunities versus this

sort of like fixed thing that you just

have to navigate yes and also there's a

a playfulness that can be brought to it

as well so one of the other things that

I talk about is flirting with the world

right so what I mean by this is that

when you go out and you're flirting you

tend not to be literal in your answers

right there's there's a playfulness that

is engaged you're going to joke with

that person and what what a lot of

people do and I'm guilty of this all the

time is when you're checking out at the

store you're doing anything you are very

literal in your answers can I help you

with anything today can I get one other

thing what floor are you on as you get

in the elevator and if instead ofo floor

three you say I don't live here I'm just

casing the joint for rubber you know

it's just like like that little stuff

that is playful that is what people are

dying for we're just so many people are

on autopilot and when you bring that

playfulness that little flirtatious

energy to men women alike things open up

in in a very fun and exciting way does

that come from confidence because i'

I've noticed that i' I'd certainly flirt

with the world more now that I feel like

I have a greater sense of confidence

that didn't have when I was 18 to 25

yeah I think it's Circle I think it

absolutely comes from confidence when

you feel good you bring that playful

energy to the world and I learned to

develop confidence by there was a time

of Faking it till I made it where I

wasn't comfortable but I had this rule

in my head I'm in the elevator I have to

say the thing right now that's what I

did and then the interaction went well

and now I'm building these reps of good

experiences where I'm seeing that my

belief about the world is this place

that I just had to make it through is

not true there's fun opportunities

everywhere I really want to um make sure

I've got everything on this first

impressions Point as well is there

anything else that I need to be aware of

you talked about non-verbal cues and I

mean there's so much information out

there that says non-verbal cues are

everything that they maybe nothing do

you think they matter and what are the

most important non-verbal cues when it

comes to making a good first impression

one one of the ones that I see is prey

versus Predator

prey versus Predator movement and prey

versus Predator gesticulation so if you

think of an animal that is a prey animal

like a a little bird or a little rabbit

they're very like Herky jerky and they

they Dart and you think of a predator

you think of a lion or like this like

sort of languid slow movement now you

don't have to dial it up to Sleepy lion

level but one of the things that you see

with people that feel very afraid is

that they Dart their eyes are very dirty

the hand goes in the hand goes out goes

back into the pockets very quickly a bit

of slowness to your movements a bit of

calm especially if you're an anxious

person can help a lot that doesn't mean

you need to lower the energy but it just

means you can slow things down a bit the

other thing that I find is this is

almost pre-ir

impression if you're out at a social

event right you're at a networking event

you're at a

bar I think a lot of people do not

realize the intuitive sense that others

have

for what is going on around them in

interactions they're not directly in and

so what will happen and this is

connected to the pray thing but not

identical is that people go out to a

networking event and they feel very

uncomfortable on their own shoes and so

they're looking at their phone or

they're standing by the bar and they're

sort of looking around for something or

someone to rescue them from their

loneliness and when you can shift that

to I am going to be comfortable where I

am I'm going to find one person my

friend and I would go out to the bar and

the rule that we had was the most

interesting place in this entire bar is

the space between our noses right it

doesn't matter you can say whatever you

want you could be like I'm terrified

here I'm so scared I wish I could go

home right now but we have to engage

with one another it was remarkable how

much easier it was to start conversation

when it was started from a place of

we're enjoying one another's company and

being playful and having a good time

here versus two of us just sort of like

standing at the bar going like this

looking around for around attention or

for so yeah so those are two things one

pray verse Predator movements and two

are you exuding this Vibe of I don't

have it somebody else does that that

people have a unconscious sense that

that is happening around them and so

making it a conscious point to I'm going

to be cool in my own space when I

interact with someone I'm not going to

make them a stepping stone to another

person that I'm more secretly attracted

to or has the job that I want I'm with

this person now and then I can move on

that had a huge huge impact on the abil

like First Impressions became easier

because of the pre first impression mhm

I mean there's so much I wanted to to

dig into there on the prey versus

Predator thing what is it about slow

movements that make someone appear to be

higher status cuz cuz as you said it I

immediately thought of the line and then

you were talking about some little like

rodent that's kind of like farting

around and it's anxious that it's about

to be eaten and then I thought of the

line which is kind of just

slowly moving and then I thought of

business contexts where you've got the

leader in the room who is kind of sat

back in their chair they're doing things

in a more considered way and maybe the

intern who's like dropping the paper and

like yeah like hitting the glass

accidentally and it's it's so

interesting because it's so true yeah

it's safety safety it's safety I mean

prey animals are hunted and that's what

you have to be head on a swivel if

you're a prey animal you want to move

slow you're dead it's over we're animals

that are highly attuned to social status

and so when we feel low on on the totem

pole we feel less safe and so one of the

things that the ways that we exhibit

that is we move more quickly we have our

head on a swivel we have to be aware of

everything that is going on we can't

take our time because we don't at some

level that mamalian or Reptilian Brain

is telling us that we are unsafe in this

environment or at least less safe than

the leader who feels very slow another

thing that you'll see in terms of status

and people who feel are is the ability

to be seen looking at others and so one

of the things that happens and this is I

don't mean uh I can explain how this

doesn't contradict the point about

focusing on someone else but when you do

turn your attention to someone else what

you'll see the guy at the bar who feels

uncomfortable or the intern do is

they'll often look with their eyes but

not with the rest of their body they're

they're doing this sort of stuff because

they're afraid to be seen looking but

when you take the person who is more

comfortable they will turn their head

and know sometimes their chest and their

whole body towards others to and they

can be caught looking because they're

not threatening that other person

they're not harming them they're not you

know they're comfortable versus there's

a fear of if they see me looking I'm in

trouble right and so these are little I

wouldn't say that you need to spend all

your time focusing on these hacks but

they work both ways so it's one thing to

notice that but if you actually

consciously go to the body I think this

is one of the fastest ways to influence

how you feel like state in the moment

instead of doing this and the prey

darting and the sitting with the hands

in the pockets right that that creates a

loop of feeling uncomfortable so one of

the first things that I would do when I

was going out to a networking event or a

bar or anywhere where I felt

uncomfortable was dance floor because on

the Dance Floor I can

go and open up and feel more comfortable

through my body because I'm signaling to

my body as I expand my arms and dance

and wave them that I'm safe right and so

it's a it's a two-way Loop so if you

notice yourself at a network event or a

bar or anywhere where feeling

uncomfortable and you notice that you're

doing this and you can say okay I can't

go to my brain and make these anxiety go

away up here but I can choose how I hold

myself this is the Jordan Peterson stand

up straight right it's there's there's

this body Loop feedback that we get and

if you do it by opening up your body

language revealing your vulnerable spots

which are the parts that your veins it's

your neck it's your inner elbow it's

your hands right standing like this a

little bit more open that tends and I

can feel it now I don't know why I

didn't do it at the beginning I'm a

little bit Rusty jeez

I feel immediately more grounded right I

feel immediately more safe comfortable

and like I can take my time in this

interaction rather than having to get

the answer right for you right for the

audience like I might have when I was

going like this it's I was going to say

before you pointed that out that it's

really self-fulfilling like the intern

who's on edge who's dropping the paper

is then going to make certain behaviors

which are going to kind of reinforce

their insecurity and low status which is

then might be pointed out they might

notice it themselves which makes them

feel [ __ ] again which makes them more on

edge and Twitchy which is going to

increase the probability that they

conduct some kind of behavior which is

and it's this downward spiral where

you're like you feel stuck at the bottom

of that and you're saying that by

influencing the things you've described

you know moving a bit slower being

expansive with your body you can start

to trigger the loop from the other way

you can start to make yourself feel safe

if you feel safe you're more likely to

do the higher value things which make

you feel safe and you spiral upwards

potentially yes yeah this is not an

Insight unique to me Tony Robbins when

at his events I don't know if you've

gone they talk about incantations where

one of the things that he does is prior

to going on stage and he advises people

to do this before they have a big moment

is he will like bang his chest and

go and his Tony Robin's way and he'll

have oftentimes a phrase that is like

I'm here to inspire or like I love

myself I feel wonderful and I would do

this before I went out right I would

before I got in the taxi before I went

anywhere I would go I love myself I love

myself I love myself and I would just

build this physical body energy

connection and it's real it happens it

it makes a dramatic impact on how you

show up because oftentimes you only get

30 seconds right it's not a lot of time

when you're sitting down in that

interview before the person starts to

form an opinion about you so going in

with that that energy that is like look

I approve of me and I'm going to have

the body language communication that

tells you that that's how I feel people

often pick up on that you can think of

interactions as two people who are

storms of beliefs encountering one

another and if my storm of belief is I'm

not really sure about this I don't

really think I deserve this job and you

probably shouldn't talk to me and your

storm of belief is I don't know a lot

about this guy but let's find out I'm

going to win yeah and you're going to

pick that up and you're go you know I

don't think this guy deserves the job

whatever but if the belief is I deserve

to be here I love myself I can be

comfortable I can be human and I'll be

okay if this doesn't go the way that I'd

like that's that's what wins out in

these it's it is the higher conviction

belief that often bleeds through in

interaction and becomes the the one that

defines that relationship at least for

that limited time in that context it's

funny because I think about my

non-verbal cues all the time I meet so

many people in so many different

contexts and a lot of the time I'm like

tired um um I'm my my head has a million

tabs open so I try and influence like

how I'm showing up with like my body

language and eye contact and outside of

the things we've discussed is there

anything else that you think I can do to

try and

leave I don't want to be rude that's

what I don't want to be I was going to

say I want to be warm but there's

something I want to be myself and I want

I don't want to be rude accidentally

rude mhm so you and you worry that you

might come across rude yeah because

I don't know you meet people like my my

assistant Sophie she walked in here now

hi she's just got like like 247 energy

and I ain't got that yeah I'm not that

guy and I'm not going to fake it yeah

and I've never been good at faking it

but is there anything else that I could

accidentally be making people dislike me

just with small things no I can say the

areas where I felt most connected to you

which is I think the opposite of rude

rude is like I'm not interested in you

as a person the areas where I felt most

connected to you is where one of us

again went there first and like said the

thing that was real it's the moments

where you stop neither of us is trying

to perform at all for the camera and

there's still a sense of that the

audience is there but yeah that's that's

where I feel okay any rudess just no

gone interesting and and when you say

that I think about like everyday

interactions and is there ever a

situation where like going there first

is a little bit too strong is what I

would say so the the thought is the one

that you have everyone has right it's

it's no I can't because other if they

didn't have that thought they would have

already done it right I will tell you a

brief story that my brother reminded me

of today as we were driving in I was

like I need I need my Charisma stories

and he said you can tell the one about

me so your brother he's in the Green

Room yeah yeah okay we went to a

networking event and for whatever reason

that day I was just in this zone of I'm

going to be a professional because this

is a networking event and the channel

wasn't established at this point and he

came with me and so I'm going in there

and I'm going through the line I'm

filling out my card what's your name

Charlie you know what do you do okay I'm

getting my my information I put my badge

on I walk through and he goes behind me

and they say what's your name he says

dragon and she says excuse me I said no

no WR dragon on the card it's gonna be

great and so he then starts a

conversation with her and they're like

just being playful and he puts dragon on

his chest and I'm going in trying to you

know impress people with my

professionalism MH and people were like

what's up he's like Dragon here and he

was a hit right he didn't he didn't have

anything to do with the networking event

he didn't have anything to do with the

uh the context of why people were there

but the interest that he got was so much

immediately more than I was getting

being the one that actually had the

business that was somewhat related to

the thing and so even I believe that

these rules on how we should engage are

um set in stone and what think few

people have done if you think of your

entire life you're either hitting it

perfect unders shooting or overshooting

everyone's fears of overshooting but

they spend almost all of their lives

undershooting overshooting is in being

too coming on too strong yeah and and

that it's okay but like there's there's

type one and type two errors right and

if there's a perfect Middle Ground of

like wow like I didn't that was a trauma

dump on that person would be in

overshare or like oh I maybe shouldn't

crack that joke at a funeral would be

going there first type of a thing M we

have less than a dozen of those usually

in our life and we have hundreds and

thousands of undershooting so what I'm

encouraging people to do is take the

risk of the overshoot because you're

already missing like you're you're under

what is available to you in terms of the

potential to create connections and the

question here is which I think informs

all of this is is your goal to blend in

get through and not make a splash or is

your goal what what is your goal and for

me it's like I want to connect I want to

connect with the people that would most

connect with me and in order to do that

I have to be willing to be seen okay so

on the other end of this what are the

mistakes people make that cause

disconnection talking about yourself is

that is that I don't think so what in

what sense so like if you walk into a

room and you immediately start talking

about yourself is that going to be if

you're over talking good question it's

it's about do people have opt-in points

so are you are you stopping giving the

person a chance to reopt into that line

of communication so this is again one of

the things we work on on those initial

questions is um okay you want to you

want to share your values early in the

interaction but am I just going to give

you my life story right I'm not giving

someone a chance to opt in but if I make

it three to five sentences and I say you

know I grew up uh I grew up on the west

coast and it was perfect because there

was surf every there everywhere and then

uh I met my wife but you know she's

super close to her family and I just

wanted to be a family man so now I live

in the middle uh of the country and

whatever you give like three hooks that

people can hook into and you're done

that's fine but some people don't give a

chance for anyone to step in and get a

word in edwise so that's another piece

that I think and I could also ask them

right if they surf or something yes

exactly but also you will see that

sometimes early in an

interaction if you

indicate these points of like people

people will often comment on what you

have to say they won't you don't need to

ask them necessarily like if you give

that thing that they like

you often don't have to like they will

jump in with the thing that connects to

it so interesting you know throughout

this conversation you've repeatedly made

reference to the fact that connection

happens at a deeper level but also the

Paradox is that we don't walk around

offering the deeper level MH

um which is what I've always figured out

and like found out on this podcast is

the deeper the conversation the more I

feel like connected to the person yeah

and yeah it's really interesting I was

just thinking about interactions that

I've even had today and you know like

the person that I I spoke to in the gym

would I have rolled up to them and what

could I have said to them that would

would have been God us past the fluffy

small talk cuz I met someone in the gym

that I've known for Loosely known yeah

and it was one of those interactions

where they hey how are you you're in La

now hey yeah where are you gonna live

I'm like I don't know and then like so

yeah fires did you are you okay yeah

yeah and I just so so let's do this how

where are you going to live I I think I

even probably asked you or everyone's

asking me because I posted on instagam

take a person in the gym you don't know

anything about them and I know context

it's going to be dependent on what you

want to learn about them what what types

of things do you wish you could connect

over more and I know there's this sense

of like whatever they want but like you

clearly care about business you clearly

care like what opportunities do you want

to open up for yourself do you want to

find a surf buddy do you want to find a

what is

it yeah so in that particular

conversation I think because I'm kind of

new here maybe what I would have been

interested in is I actually really

wanted to know something about their

professional life that I that they told

me about previously but also I'm like

looking for friends here yeah cool

things to do people to see new networks

amazing you got it so so it's where are

you going to live be like honestly I'm

not sure I'm looking for cool places to

live cool places to go new networks of

people what I should have [ __ ] said

that yeah it's and it's so I think it's

what we mentioned earlier but the thing

that happens is that people try to get

through rather than connect and I think

that informs a lot of the questions that

people have they say yeah but couldn't

it go wrong it's like yes it could but

you have to consider that not connecting

is also it going wrong like the number

of chances that you meet to connect with

your potential spouse potential

incredible friend I don't want to be uh

nightmarish or scary for people but like

the amount of incredible people that

have walked in and out of all of our

Lives is saddening right because we

didn't say the thing and we it's like oh

my gosh you guys would have connected so

well if just one of you could have like

put it out there the thing that you were

interested in but it just doesn't happen

99% of the time time there's a certain

individual listening right now

who really wants to connect in fact they

feel so disconnected and so lonely in

their life and they're hearing

everything you say but there's a barrier

that has always stopped

them adding one more sentence going

deeper with the stranger and no matter

how much they listen to this kind of

advice they still go through their life

in this state of kind of getting through

life not connecting do you have any idea

a is that true like does that person

exist and have you met them in your

audience and be like what is step one to

starting to break down that barrier

because I think I even feel a little bit

as you were speaking I was thinking yeah

like why didn't I say that in the gym

today like what is it about me that

meant that I just tried to get through

and get back to the

weights this it's like a bad habit or I

think there's a number of things in your

case and I've experience this I I don't

know if you have this but um when you

get into a position that is a lovely one

to be in of relative power right like

people want to come on the show they

want to know what you're up to they

maybe want to go to the parties that

you're going to one of the ways to not

to avoid having to constantly set and

enforce boundaries is to shine less

bright and so I don't know if you feel

this but I notice myself not following

some of my own advice these days and

when I reflect on why it's because if I

say that I have a YouTube channel and

they say how many subscribers and I say

how many subscribers then they want my

phone number then then they want my this

and in order just to circumvent all of

that uh you know yeah I like work from

home you know I like I I will shine less

bright and I realized this uh years ago

when I was doing breakdowns and I was

doing all these famous people I'm like

I'm going to do one of Justin Bieber

because he was such a bright excited

young kid and then I looked at him at

the time he was 16 to 18 he was on Jimmy

Fallon and he was so flat and I was like

why is he so flat and then he cracked a

joke and the audience

it wasn't even funny it was God and so

any if if you get to a position where

any sort of output from you CS in this

just wave of attention and energy people

often shut that down which is a sad

thing and I want to stop doing that and

people shut themselves down yes they

shut themselves down because then you

have to have boundaries and you have to

tell that person hey I don't give out my

Instagram or I don't want to trade

numbers or you have to find a way to

navigate disappointing other people that

are interested and going having a deeper

connection that you don't feel it with

them does that happen with like

beautiful people as well cuz I almost

certainly you know what I me I imagine

they just get it all the time everywhere

they're going people are trying to

connect yeah well and I think you know

in terms of things to watch out for I

didn't realize this cuz I do think it's

not necessarily a good thing but young

women I think realize this as they hit

puberty that there's going to be people

interested in you that don't really want

to get to know you right they're

interested in you because you're

beautiful they're interested in you for

these other reasons same thing tends not

to happen with young

men and so I got to 19 and I wasn't

wanted in any of the locations that I

was at right and so there was a lady's

night but I couldn't get in there was

like and so people were very honest with

me I got direct clear feedback about the

type of people that wanted to connect

with me and if someone did it was only

ever because they wanted the pleasure of

my company there was not there was

nothing to get from knowing me when

things started to Boom I was not

prepared for the ways that people adjust

and manipulate when they perceive that

someone has power and so people entered

my life that I thought liked me and I

realized later liked my ability to

provide a paycheck or my ability to do

this and uh it was very sad for me it

was really really difficult to

experience but um as I withdrew and

stopped making vide

and uh said you know I'm not running the

I'm not running this business my

co-founder is going to take you know

he's in charge of the paychecks from

here on out the people that almost

immediately withdrew from me was I'm

very grateful to have seen it but was

unprepared for

the uh transactional nature that can

that can happen when when you start to

accumulate power and I say that because

if there's aect particularly young men

but it's true of women as well just be

aware that as you grow and hopefully

become more powerful in the world the

level of uh deception and the level of

even just in in the lightest like people

trying to please you and make you happy

is going to escalate and you're going to

need to develop a discernment that I

just never needed when I was in my young

20s to understand who's trying to

manipulate you and get things from you

and what's real yes to understand this

the subtle difference between like who

likes me for me and who likes me for

these status things that I can am

connected to or can provide and uh yeah

I mean is there any such advice you can

give someone to figure out whether

they're being used or the relationship

is authentic and real yeah well I can

give some not to do that's where I'm at

today this is Niche but if you're a

business owner be very careful about

making a single I I made a single person

my like point of contact to the business

and that meant that any feedback that

came from like the front lines of the

business was coming up funneled through

him and spoken to me and any like thing

that I said to him was then distributed

to the business and I wasn't doing

enough direct connecting with people on

the ground and what happened over a

course of years is I learned and I

didn't find this four years is that I

was being uh a generous word would be

like there was some fudge of the truth

and and then there were outright lies be

very very careful

about making one person your eyes and

ears in any aspect of your life but I

did that in the business and didn't you

know touch base and connect directly

with people and say hey is this how are

you feeling is this true and I and I

lost those direct connections and it

wasn't required in a company of my size

it was just a a foolish novice

entrepreneur mistake that I'd made

happen so many times it happens a lot in

business people listening to this now if

you've got if you working in a business

and there's a manager in between you and

maybe the top of the business managers

have a tremendous power to control

narratives narratives yeah everyone

wants power I would say I think that's a

fair statement pretty much everyone

wants power and we can Define whatever

power means but I guess there's two

paths to attaining power there's

delivering value for people and being

useful and then there's what you

described there which

is is manipulating the situation

so that you're perceived as being

necessary mhm yeah and it's it's uh

making sure that your name is on the

project right there's in a group project

there's there's always people that are

doing the majority of the work and

there's people that are making sure that

they're presenting the most important

piece or making sure that their name is

on the project narcissists sociopaths

some of some of the videos you've made

on your channel before speak to this

type of behavior yes what were the

things that you missed that are like

characteristic of narcissist cuz I know

yeah you've made videos about this

subject where you analyze other

interactions with other people but for

someone who might not be aware of some

of those subtle cues what kinds of

things my co-founder and I had several

conversations about this person where we

said man and we had these dozens of

times I wouldn't be shocked to find out

that he was lying on his job application

and we would just say that to each other

and so if you find that there's just a

doubt that that you don't believe that

somebody says that they were very

successful in a thing and just doesn't

look like it you know there's that

phrase in in business which is is if

there's doubt there's no doubt when it

comes to hiring and firing I didn't

Follow That So just pay attention to

your doubts and if you need to write

them down but it's the voicing of it in

a weird way was a way of blowing off

steam and not addressing the core issues

so that was one thing and then I think

the last thing is it's this um I felt

guilty verifying I felt guilty verifying

his job application I felt guilty going

to the guy that he said had offered him

a job whose number I had and saying hey

wanted to check on this because that

would have been an indication that I

didn't trust him and it was my way of

saying I trust you I know you won't hurt

me and maybe you can trust me that I

won't hurt you too never mind that they

were not

reciprocal relationships but the reason

that I'm so interested in these sorts of

things is

because I had by the time I was 28 or 29

built the life that I dreamed of when I

was 18 I had the girlfriend that I

wanted I had more money than I dreamed

of I had the dream job

and it fell apart because these core

things hadn't been addressed and when I

say fell apart it wasn't like the world

took it from me it was like my own ey

fell apart in my ability to sustain them

or it fell together thank you that's the

truth no that's the truth man is um I'm

so grateful for the ways in which it

broke down and I think there's many

times in my life and when I've seen

other people where they get fired or the

thing doesn't work out or the first

business fails and you're like oh it

fell apart and you're right it's uh you

get five years down the line it's like

no man that that felt together yeah

because if it wasn't you being your true

aligned authentic self whatever that

means then it wasn't real anyway it was

something you were holding together and

it sounded like it was exhausting to

hold that together yes unconsciously

life shouldn't be exhausting to hold

together so if you're if you're

exhausted holding your life together in

the relationships of people then it's

not sustainable and it's not real yeah

well I'm curious and you're taking

business on this because I've since

found business mentors that there's so

many mentors that are like here's how to

build your business so that you can sell

it and the implicit understanding there

is that this thing is a pain in the butt

you don't want to have it and you'll be

happier when you can get rid of it and

exchange for a lot of money and there's

a guy Joe Hudson who I've mentioned

before who talks about you know what if

a billion dollar business was not a

business that was valued at a billion

dollars but it's a business that you

wouldn't sell for a billion dollar

the things that you got to do like if

you had to sell it and you could never

do that thing again you wouldn't take

that deal and when you think how would I

run this business if it had to be my

billion dollar business today what sort

of things would I allow myself to do

what sort of things would I cut out it's

a total paradigm shift on business what

an amazing question to ask

yourself what an amazing question to ask

yourself so the way that I heard that

was if I wanted to run this business

like a business that I would never be

prepared to sell what the decisions I

would make today MH okay so you'd get

rid of the toxic people that are

destroying your piece irrespective of

how many clients you might lose or the

short-term net loss of that or how it

might disgruntle people um you would

probably set a pace that you could go at

for 50 years and you'd probably

disregard like metrics and growth

numbers and stuff like that yeah you'd

focus on doing work that you truly love

not what the audience want not what the

clients are paying you for but what you

truly love and

you'd work with stakeholders and

partners that treated you with the the

respect and the courtesy and the um the

the same energy love curiosity fun

that you need to do this for 50 years so

you like wouldn't work with [ __ ]

yeah even if they were paying you a lot

of money you'd say no to a couple of

million dollars I guess that's my answer

to that question yeah that's that's

that's the answer to that question oh is

it okay right I mean of course it is is

uh it's the opposite of what you would

do if you were building to cell which is

I'm going to you know get someone else

to be the frontman cuz I don't want to

do it I'm going to have them do the

boring thing that I don't like it's yeah

instead of no no no like why are we

doing these things that we don't like

you wouldn't tolerate tolerate there

would be zero Toler and you may or may

not wind up with a billion dollars but

what I have found is as I lean into that

that's where these leaps and

breakthroughs are it's linear thinking

to figure out how to please the audience

and please other people in most cases

but there's these exponential leaps that

you make when you're like what do I want

to see in the world that's where you go

from zero to one that's where you make

the thing that has never been made

because you want it yeah so it's a hard

place to get to you've got to have I

think life failure a few times before

you kind of figure out what you've

described there um and I can certainly

rela in my life to to that so even when

I think about this podcast I speak to

Jack I think I had this conversation

with Jack the other day I was like in

order for me to do this for like 20

years what am I going to need to do

today what am I going to need to

sacrifice today to do it for 20 years

and I can kind of tell you like just a

Topline thing is when a guest request

comes on my list and it says they have

this has happened they have 70 million

followers and their stories there what

they've done Etc and it's like this

Steve we know that this is going to get

huge numbers but I don't want to sit

there for two and a half hours and speak

to this person because I have no

interest in [ __ ] pop music in the

South South America I know that the

long-term decision to do the show for 20

years means in that moment I have to say

no mhm

because if there's multiple days in a

row where I show up to this set and I

sit down and I wasn't looking forward to

it I'm going to end up where you said

you ended up which is that feeling of

like burnt out broken yeah lack of

meaning what gives you the strength to

say no to The Superficial win when

especially when there's like a this

would be great for you wisdom of [ __ ]

up so many times in my life when I did

that burn and also being able to look

forward at someone like Joe Rogan and

watch his interviews where he talks

about this and realizing that this

principle of if you want to go far you

have to play like long-term games and

make long-term decisions and so now

knowing what a short-term decision is

versus a long-term decision and actually

being really aligned with Jack who's who

runs this show because me and Jack are

aligned on these things now quite

intuitively and we've kind of learned

together we've like made the short-term

decision going [ __ ] that was a bad idea

so you kind of

you kind of build this sort of

collective wisdom that the right thing

to do for the long-term health of this

show is having a set principles and I

really wish people understood that

because especially when the show gets

big there's so much pressure to change

I've got a good example I wasn't going

to say this but I think I should

probably share it because this is the DI

here and that's we me to be sharing our

Diaries here on um the last episode we

uploaded was a debate format with four

guys on it and we're talking about the

world and stuff it's the first time

we've ever done that and I had a meeting

with some people um the day after that

episode came out and someone in the room

was saying oh we should add a woman to

the panel because the Optics are

bad and I remember what I said in that

room I said we should never ever do

something purely for Optics the reason

why we should add a woman to the panel

that we just did and this is something

we will do in future is because we

genuinely believe it will make the

conversation better and I said to them

and there was 12 of my teammates who

work on this team in the room I said if

we ever do stuff for Optics we slowly

slip away from our integrity and it's

there's a paradox there because you

think the high integrity thing to do is

to like cater to Optics what things look

like but actually the high integrity

thing to do is to ignore virtue

signaling and to do what's best for the

conversation and I just reiterated in

that room that like the reason why in

the future we're going to make these

panels more diverse is because we

believe that it's better for the

audience it's better for the

conversation that's the only reason

we'll ever do it and that's a prime

example of

learning over time that you've got to

ignore virtue signaling you've got to

ignore because these things come and go

what's virtuous today will be count like

cancelable tomorrow and you've got to

stay anchored to a set of principles

yeah uh yeah we digress no we we do not

at all that is the second six

charismatic mindsets that I talk about

that is the second which is I care more

about my character than my reputation

let's do that then what are these six

charismatic mindsets so we talked a

little bit about the uh the body

language and the stuff and really I land

much more in the the mindsets and the

ways of being and this is this is to me

closer to the core first one is no

matter what I will be okay and I feeling

nervous on the way to this conversation

that we're going to have I'm in the car

getting over here I'm thinking do I need

to

prepare no matter what I'll be okay

right I go in here and this is true in

any social scenario we can often bring

life or death Stakes to the interview to

asking the girl out to whatever it is

literally just saying the phrase in your

head yourself no matter what I will be

okay has this calming clarifying thing

that helps you focus on what you

actually want to do and get out of this

circumstance and helps you stop focusing

on how do I be safe because how do I be

safe is how do I do less how do I say

less and just kill any chance of

connection right so that's the first one

second I care more about my character

than my

reputation it's very easy for would have

been like for you in that moment to Oh

shoot what are people going to think the

Optics of this are not good the

leadership that you demonstrated by not

just disagreeing but by revealing your

character will pay dividends not just in

how you guys handle Optics it teaches

everyone on the team what matters which

is fundamentally the the character what

is the case not what looks like it is

the case and you also were able to bring

it back and I think this is the thing

where we're talking about listening to

criticism is like you didn't just hear

it and reject it no we're not going to

have a woman on the podcast it was if we

do that we do it for the right reasons

right so I care more about my character

and also the Optics of oh I screwed up

now I have to fix it or I screwed up I

have to dig my heels in I think a lot of

this is going on right now with Elon

Musk and and the solute that he did is I

can't I can't say hey I made a mistake I

can't say I didn't mean that by it I

can't do any of that I have to dig in

because I don't want to be seen to be

weak or I don't want to be seen to be

this salute thing though I this is let's

do it it I'm I'm right in this video

yeah no so so Elon Musk if you've ever

seen him on stage M he is a very

eccentric totally a little bit awkward

sometimes individual who goes up on

stage and say it's like and literally

seen videos where he's

like and you know you on the red carpet

I don't know if you saw that it's like

that red carpet uh walk that he did

where he starts being going like like

this yeah he's making weird faces this

is this is him so I'm not defending him

at all but if you have a lens of empathy

and you look at the bigger picture

and you also say listen this guy has no

track record of not saying what he

thinks so if he tells me that that's

wasn't what he was doing in that moment

he has no track record of like holding

his tongue yeah and I I it's funny

because I I consider myself to be

apolitical but one of the things that

really turned me off when I saw the

commentary around that was the left side

of politics didn't seem to exert

any um what's the word

it was just all the reaction was so

predictable I watched the video and and

thought oh no he's just being El on mus

that's what he does on stage just a bit

wacky and then the whole like oh no he's

a Nazi this is a Nazi salute I just

thought I I find it to be disingenuous

yeah well there's a ton here politically

I think this is why the left loses

elections yeah

because there's so much winning there's

so much happening that you could

critique today Trump launched a meme

coin you know what I mean like there's

like you could speak on so many things

and to put the focus on this is why they

continue to lose elections in the United

States of America because I agree with

you I don't I don't see any reason to

believe that this is a

hidden uh reveal of elon's Politics as

regards the Third Reich at all it's like

the guy's a weird dude who moves weird

and he literally afterwards said my

heart goes out to you and his response

to it on Twitter which is Complicated by

the mass media right because there's I'm

going to make this video too the ability

to say sorry in personal relationships

is fundamental and critical and if you

can't own your mistakes and apologize to

someone you will erode every

relationship that you ever have because

you will make mistakes and if you can't

repair them they just it's like a bridge

that never gets any maintenance it

doesn't work do you think he should have

said sorry this is the question when

we're talking about a couple things mass

media and then I think there's a there's

a space between sorry and that wasn't my

intention and instead what he did was

cuz I I think I think what he should

have said was that wasn't my intention

what he said instead was he made a bunch

of uh puns about like different Nazi

stuff like random things uh but do I

think he should say sorry no I don't

think he should say sorry if he said

sorry can you imagine the mainstream

media exactly oh my gosh exactly so this

is the problem I'm going to make this

video which is if you look at the most

this is this is tragic the way that we

have

culturally ruined saying sorry like with

our media because if you look at the

most powerful men Andrew Tate Donald

Trump Elon Musk they all got the memo

never apologize never ever ever it

doesn't matter what you did never

apologize and what you get as a result

more power right it it like because when

you do say sorry even if it's

appropriate even if it would have been

appropriate in a private circumstance to

do that the outcome in the media Loop if

you look at um you could take someone

going back to like Aziz anari who had a

me too situation where the girl was

unhappy with how the date went but it

was all consensual but she felt

pressured by him and he went on like

very deep heartfelt

apology destroyed you know end of his

show completely over for him years later

people look back at that story with a

different cultural lens and

go that okay I yes you're sorry for that

of course that makes sense because

that's that's the appropriate response

is I'm really sorry I didn't that wasn't

what I wanted that wasn't my intent I

didn't want it to go that way um or I

didn't want you to feel that way as well

and that human response translated to

the mass media is so destructive to your

career which is it's really tragic

because that's the type of thing that

you would want to have two people hash

out and find resolution to themselves

but doesn't appear to be possible in in

um Global media today it happens on both

sides it's the right mischaracterizing

the left the left mischaracterizing the

right and I especially through this

election cycle I just saw over and over

again because there someone who

genuinely believes when I'm at home

alone and I'm watching these videos

genuinely believes that I'm

apolitical I find ver I find good things

on both sides I find things on the left

that I think that's that's um that's

that's correct and I find things on the

right especially as it relates to some

things around business that I think okay

that's I think that's the best thing and

I look at both sides I think objectively

and I'm saying I think because I never

really know my own biases and I think