John Fetterman, thank you for joining us

here on the All-In podcast for this

All-In interview. Very excited to have

you here

today. I know you're in the middle of

voting today. Sounds like the Save

America Act might be starting its debate

on the floor. Is that correct? I don't

know. Like what what I've heard recently

that they don't have the votes, but we

will find. But I don't have any special

insight. I mean, it's it's going to be

very close. I don't think it will If

they do hit it, I don't see it more

beyond 51. But I'm not I'm not really

sure. It's a shame that they didn't make

it more about just ID to vote. They they

turned it into other things. They turned

it into kind of a Christmas tree, and

they're hanging all these things on it.

But that's that's where we are, but

we'll know uh and

having someone follow that, too. I just

He's going to let me know, in fact, cuz

I'm really interested to see how it

goes. Because if they do, then that's

going to turn into a really uh

a spectacle about what a a talking

filibuster is. Yeah. Well, let's see

what happens. I mean, it's a pretty

dramatic week ahead. Let me just start I

want to zoom out a little bit and talk

about how you make policy decisions. And

I want to just start with party.

You ran as a progressive in 2016, lost.

You beat Dr. Oz in '22. And now you have

a 72% approval rating from Pennsylvania

Republicans. And only 22% from

Democrats.

Are you a Republican or are you a

Democrat senator? And kind of what's the

way that you think about your party

affiliation?

Well, I actually I think the the more

realistic the realistic numbers was like

uh earlier in the morning console. And

that had me at basically 50/50 with

Dems. And I was I was in the the 60s for

with Republicans. Without a doubt,

without a doubt, that that I am more

popular with with Republicans. And I

mystified by that. I mean, I'm honored

to to have support from any

Pennsylvanian, but what I will say that

um you know, [clears throat] I've just

going to follow what I think is the

moral clarity. And now, in my very first

race back in 2015, over a decade ago, uh

what used to be a progressive is

definitely not what a progressive

started to turn into and what it be

became. And and even in my my race in

'21 '22, I was announcing, I am no

longer I I'm just a Democrat. I'm not a

progressive. And now, there's been that

evolution away from like those core

principles that really weren't weren't

controversial.

And and now, I've isolated myself by

following and standing and proud to be

un

unapologetically supporting Israel. And

now, if you've seen that that poll came

out yesterday that the standing in the

Democratic Party continues to

deteriorate, I've put that out on my

social media, and I said, "I don't

follow. I don't care about the polls.

You know, there's a moral clarity here,

and that should be where the rest of us

should should be." Uh and now, it's been

really easy for me to to lean in on it,

and that I created the only Democrat

that's very supportive about Epic Fury.

And I'm also the only Democrat that

refuses to shut down the Department of

Homeland Security. Yes, as a Democrat,

we would like to make some some reforms

on ICE, but what I'm unwilling to do is

shut it down. And after that horrific

that attack in Michigan, where where he

was looking to kill 150 toddlers, you

know, and now there's more and more

kinds of these these events. Why would

[clears throat] you vote to shut our

government down? and the cybersecurity

agency, you know, that must be

incredible for the Chinese and the

Iranians that that we've shut that

government down. So,

that's that you know, I my core values

haven't changed. If anything's changed,

that's been kind of the core what what's

required to be a Democrat and I'm going

to follow what I think is true. What is

the

country over party, whether that's the

right side of history.

What do you think the Democratic Party

used to stand for? What does it stand

for today and what do you think it

should stand for?

I I I honestly I I I don't know. But,

what I will say as I would refer to to

your listeners is like

listen to what the people that are

running for the Senate as Democrats.

Watch what they're saying and doing and

it's becoming more and more anti-Israel,

openly hostile to to Israel. And now

that becomes part of the litmus litmus

purity test. I'm not going to take any

of their money. I'm going to denounce

that and

I was the only Democrat that's

absolutely Netanyahu just done the right

thing to to break the that access

there Hezbollah and Hamas and now

attacking also Houthis as well. So, I

mean, so do you know where what

Democrats stand for? See who's running

for the Senate and now play it planner

with the the Nazi tattoo guy.

You know, on top of being a an about

communist and I'll said

>> [clears throat]

>> incredibly offensive things about women

and sexual assault

and I'll refers to rural people as

stupid and racist. And I was so and now

and is that what Democrats want? Well, I

guess we'll see that. But, you know, you

see in all these different things also

in Michigan, too. A guy that really as

far I know has refused to condemn Hamas.

And he led the, you know, no

the the no

What was the no committed? It's like the

forget what that that stupid thing was

called, but it was like you you know,

you no vote no vote for uh uncommitted.

Uncommitted, yeah. Uncommitted. Yeah.

But, you know, we're not going to vote

for

Kamala Harris. And and now they helped

deliver

um Trump uh for Michigan. So, that's

like look who's running. And look who's

being competitive. So, that that's you

want to know where Democrats are, look

in those kinds of races.

You know, it's interesting. We used to

have

the ability to agree on some things and

disagree on other things. It seems

nowadays

whatever the other side is doing or

saying,

you have to take the opposing view. And

in many cases, it seems like that might

force folks to kind of contort into

these weird positions that don't even

make logical sense.

Why did we get to this point? What

happened that everything had to be

polar? There was never the ability for

us to There's no longer the ability for

us to agree on some things while

disagreeing on other things. What caused

this change in this country? And can we

get back from it?

I I don't know. Like, part of my party's

become so inflexible. What what I've

discovered that, you know, you are not

allowed to be a proud unapologetic

standing uh with Israel, but it's it's

okay. Uh it's not a big deal if you have

a Nazi tattoo on your chest. And you

have people in now in my party now are

trying to normalize that or to excuse

that. I mean, like it's

that that's that's that's kind of where

we are. And and now I know what's toxic

as a Democrat to disagree with. But for

me,

those are I think our core values. You

know, the kinds of values in Israel,

kinds of the core value that we have

always used to say, "Never ever shut our

government down. That's always wrong.

You're going to punish union members.

You're going to punish, you know,

everyday Americans." Now here we're

doing those same things. Uh and now I

think our border, for example, I think

secure our border,

deport all the criminals. But now, never

ever have the kind of tragedies like we

had in Minneapolis. That's not what

anyone really voted for anything

supports. So, you know, if I'm more

popular than Republicans, I don't really

know. But uh but I also thought I I

treat everyone with respect and I don't

refer to Republicans or members of MAGA.

They're not Nazis. They're not fascists.

They're not trying to destroy our

country.

Uh now I know and I love many many

people that that voted for or support

President Trump. I'm going to treat

anybody with respect. I don't attack

members of their families. I don't use

and and those kinds of attacks. We have

to find a better way forward and and

that's what I've been maintaining.

Who do you think leads the Democratic

Party today?

Oh, we don't we don't have one.

>> [clears throat]

>> I I think I think the the TDS that I

think that's the leader right now. You

know, right now our our party is is

governed by the TDS and now it's made it

virtually impossible without being

punished as a Democrat to agree

something's good or I agree with the

other side. And I I would define that by

epic fury. I am the literally the only

Democrat in America uh in Congress that

I've come across that's saying, "I think

it's a great thing to break and destroy

the Iranian regime. I think it's

entirely appropriate to hold them

accountable and what's strange to me

that every single Democrat that's run

for president and anyone that I know in

Congress says we must never allow them

to acquire a nuclear bomb. When that

happens, why not celebrate that and or

acknowledge that? I have only witnessed

just criticism and these kinds of

these kinds of attack. Like, yeah, you

don't have to agree on every single

thing, but when a good thing happens,

just because it comes from a

the different party,

that that tells me that you're choosing

the demand of the the base or the party

over country or what what's really I

think appropriate in that circumstances.

Now, I I would say now, you know, to any

country any country, do you consume oil?

Yes, of course we do. Well, then that

makes it your problem, too. That makes

you part of your responsibility. I don't

know why, you know, like

Israel and and our nation did the heavy

lifting. Excuse me, uh

the the heavy

the heavy work to to destroy the Iranian

military apparatus. You know, now why

not wouldn't you not, you know, help us

to reopen

the straits because you consume oil. You

all could be

the ability

to why not par- participate? That that's

that's strange to me.

So, I think everyone, why can't you get

behind? The only ones that aren't are

China and Russia. Those are the same

kinds of especially in Europe, you know,

what they're doing to Ukraine for over 4

years and we all know what the goals of

China is. There's so You say it's not

our war, it's like yeah, well, it's our

cause. And if you consume oil, and you

all do, you know, that effectively makes

us all part of this responsibility.

Right. Do you think uh

there's a clear path to getting out of

Iran for the United States at this

stage? How do you view this exit

happening? It seems like

the president, to some degree, is

declaring victory, but on the other

hand, there seems to be continued

activity and and push forward here.

What's our exit path?

I I don't know.

But what I will say, what's undeniably

been happening. Now,

first, why aren't all of the media

outlets demanding proof of life from

from the Ayatollah?

You know, ever since that first strike

back in last month, not a peep, not a

peep out of him. I mean, the the

Iranians are doing kind of like Weekend

at Italia's.

>> [clears throat]

>> You know, like they're just trying to

pretend this guy is functional in any in

any way. And now, just today today, you

know, they just they just eliminated,

you know, who was effectively the the de

facto leader. You know, I think that's

fantastic. Keep doing it for that. So,

and without a doubt, they have no

capabilities at this point otherwise

than to

to fire off a a drone at civilians at

civilians. The Iranians have never done

anything other than just attacking

civilians. Abs- absolutely. That's a

fact. You know, they can't engage in

traditional kinds of of combat. So,

those cowards, what they do is fire

drones to create chaos. You know,

they've been effectively neutered, and

that's a wonderful thing. And that's

also effectively broken the the proxies.

And that's also made the world

undeniably more secure. So, and this is

not this is not a an

uh

I mean this war is only 3 weeks into it.

This whatever you want to call it,

whatever the semantics, it's 3 weeks.

This is not like a Ukraine in war. You

know, this is 3 weeks. It It's not you

know, neat and it's not absolutely quick

to to dismantle the entire Iranian

apparatus for the thing. Holding them

accountable is entirely appropriate. And

every single president since the last 40

some years wanted to do something about

Iran. Finally, that's happened. It's a

good thing. And now To your point about

the straight and America looking for

assistance to support the activities

that the commercial oil activity through

the straight, NATO allies have largely

said no.

Do you think that we're looking at the

end of the NATO alliance? What does this

speak to for the future

both America's leadership with the in

the West and this alliance that has kind

of created a great power center that's

created balance in the world. I mean, is

NATO at risk?

>> I'm proud to be an American and and I

believe, you know, we are a force of

good in the world and I don't truly

don't understand why they don't want to

join us to to reopen the straits. But if

you consume oil, that makes it part of

your your problem and that makes you a

part of your responsibility to join us.

So, we've done the hard work at this

point and the horror of 10/7 was born by

the Israelis, too. Now, they've done the

appropriate thing to to destroy the

proxies and to hold them fully

accountable.

And now why the world can't rally around

this to just do that. Now, I do believe

we will be successful with or without

their help. But remind people that's

been 3 weeks. And now for a nation

that's 90 million that used to be this

fearsome force of military in the entire

region, just been pulverized into

irrelevance other than just creating

kinds of chaos, firing a drone there.

And now they can't they can't even in

fight with with honor. You know, they

they attack civilians. They've massacred

their own

You know, there there would be more

uprising because they're terrified

because they've had to witness as

they've killed up to 35,000 of them uh

last time.

So, they've been held accountable.

We're as an American, hold them

accountable. And that's a good thing.

Yeah, I think the question a lot of

people are asking again is what does

success look like? What's it defined as?

How do we get out of this and when do we

walk away?

And that uncertainty I think is what has

a lot of folks saying

I don't know if this is going to become

another Iraq war or Afghanistan type

situation. That's what makes folks

concerned.

Abs- absolutely absurd. This is not a

nation-building thing. This is a

destroying a terrible regime.

Disarmament. Disarmament. You know, like

if you live in Europe, remember what the

you you like if you would have disarmed

the the German Nazi regime before it it

it really started. I mean, like have you

forgot the lessons of history? When you

have a regime that is committed to

destroying,

you know, the

nations in the region. And now, like why

is it wrong to hold them accountable?

And now

For critics

Yeah, go ahead.

Critics Critics are attacking, well, it

cost us a billion dollars. It's like,

well, you know, not stopping Iran would

be a hell of a a more expensive in lives

and economic impact. Uh Uh so that's

that's the thing. You know, clearly if

you even consider of the lessons from

history of disarming a dangerous toxic

regime the way they've done that

why can't you be open to really

participate but at least not just

acknowledge that the world's made safer

as a result? There's a lot of criticism

from both sides of the aisle that

perhaps the United States, President

Trump were unduly influenced by uh

Netanyahu and by the Israeli lobbyists

in the United States. You know, maybe

you can address that point. You've taken

money from AIPAC and I know that you've

kind of been uh that's been brought up

before but how do you react to the

argument that many are making that

Israel has undue influence on our

politics and our um our kind of uh

global actions. Well, that that plays

into the to the anti-Semitism and the

tropes and it's like pulling all the

strings and they're behind everything.

It's just that's just part of the group.

It's become more and more acceptable as

a Democrat to say these things. You

know, and it's like

like Tucker Carlson and and Fuentes and

these these people, you know, like no

one claims them. No one claims them. You

know, I promise you I know one at least

I sit around wondering what those are

the kind of individuals and their

opinions on Israel or anything at that

point. Same parts of my party as well,

too. Now, if you if you want to

normalize that a Nazi tattoo is kind of

like a one-off, it's no not a big deal

or if you think Israel engaged in a

genocide, you know, that how ignorant

that is to the actually what defines a

genocide is is um

the exact opposite. They were in a just

war, you know, and I remember where it

started and remember what Hamas

continued to do. Send everybody home and

there they would be the end of this. So

so that's that's part of this and now

how anti-Semitism out of control out of

control, you know, on our college

campuses and as well in in the world

even in San Jose. You know,

a Jew was beaten just having dinner. You

know, you have people driving crashing

into synagogue kind of like Tree of Life

but thankfully he was immediately killed

by the security. They had security

because they had to provide those cuz

they knew that's always an ever-present

kinds of risk there. Thank God. Thank

God what that could have made possible

without them. So that's that's where we

are and I don't listen to parts of

whether it's my party or the extreme in

the right. You know, I never turn to

someone like Tucker Carlson for wisdom

or their views on on this or anything.

You know, honestly.

Well, so let's talk about another

controversial topic which we just hit on

for a moment at the start of the show

which is the Save Act. 83% of Americans

support voter ID for elections. The

Senate scheduled to take up the Save Act

supposedly or potentially this week.

You've said you don't support the Save

Act in its current form. What do you

think needs to be changed? Do you

generally agree with the idea of using

voter ID for elections?

Well, the Republicans have never had any

outreach or to engage.

You know, they never said, "Hey, well,

how can we rework it?" Or you know, what

can we we offer? You know, and I'll make

it, you know, real ID. Real real ID to

vote. Keep it simple, you know? So like

yeah,

why not? Why not? You know, like it's

like that that that would have I I am

not outraged by providing ID to vote.

71% of Democrats are okay with that. 83%

of Americans are okay with it. Make it

that, then yeah, and I'm I'm interested

to really to have that conversation.

Another thing that they continue to do,

they try to smear

uh

voting uh voting by mail.

That's absolutely safe. And the red

states in America like Florida, Ohio,

and others,

they rely on it. The more rural a state

is, the they really use that, too. So,

they've made it this uh Christmas uh

tree of hanging all these these kinds of

boutique and other issues. Now, if you

are serious and like, "Hey,

ID to vote." You know, you might bring

some actual Democrats on that. I'm not,

you know, ah, I refuse the kind of

extreme rhetoric about it's not Jim

Crow. It is not trying to suppress

Americans from voting. It's making it

perhaps more secure. Um

and they'll have a serious conversation.

And that's why I you know, I said I'm

unwilling uh to support it in its

current

current form. And do you think there has

been election fraud and to what extent?

Uh well, I mean, in my experience as

lieutenant governor uh in 2020, there

was a lot of allegation that there was

that and not one single remind people,

roughly 57 out of Pennsylvania's 67

counties are all deep deep red. Not one

single one, there was no fraud. There

was no fraud. And now, they we

identified, I think believe it was six,

six or seven. In fact, and now,

coincidentally, they all happened to be

Republicans that were voting for

President Trump and mostly they used a

dead relative to try to to to vote that,

and they were caught. So, voter fraud,

now, in Pennsylvania, it is absolutely

secure. I can absolutely, you know, I've

witnessed that. And now, in

Pennsylvania, the Republicans drove that

train of of voting by mail. That was

their idea. That was what they demanded.

And in return, we dropped the straight

party voting by you just push a button

to vote straight down the entire ticket

ticket voting. And [clears throat] now,

they had to turn their views because at

that time, the president decided that

that's a terrible thing. So, I mean, you

know, two things must be true. It's not

outrageous to show ID to vote, but

voting by mail is an honorable, safe,

and secure way that Republicans across

our nation have been doing it and doing

it some in the most secure ways as

examples. Do you think there's

non-citizen voting going on? One of the

arguments that's made is that the

Democrats opened the border, brought in

a lot of non-citizens, gave them access

to vote in some way, either mail-in

ballots without showing proof of

citizenship or whatnot, and that really

boosted Democrat votes across blue

states. Is that fair or is that

unfounded and just

>> That's that's a great that's a great

point. And I am concerned about that.

You know, hey, is there an issue? So, I

just ran this.

Uh that is the Heritage the Heritage

founded

Yeah, Heritage Foundation.

>> Heritage Foundation. You know, they said

that their database between 1999 to

2023, they identified 77

instances of non-citizens voting between

1999 and 2023. That's the Heritage

Foundation. You know, that's the you

know, there. So, so for me, that that

would identify that it doesn't seem

that, you know, the Heritage Heritage

Foundation doesn't claim that 70 there's

more than 77. So, that's why I'm saying,

if you're really serious and you want to

have that, let's make it about ID, not

all these other kinds of parts that this

that uh

it dilutes the core mission of like

showing ID or making it more secure.

So, why have Democrats been so opposed

not just to this act, but generally to

the idea of showing ID for voting? Many

of the interviews and arguments that

have been made by Democrat politicians

in media have brought in ideas that

well, not everyone has access to an ID

and I mean I am not one of those

Democrats I am not one of those

Democrats. To to say that that's

terrible it's evil. Why are they saying

that? Cuz if it's such a an obvious

common sense

action, 83% of voters support it, why

are so many in the party and this is

where a lot of people have conspiracy

theories that they're using it to

harvest votes and and so on. Why are

they opposing it? What is actually going

on?

I I I I I can't speak for them, but what

I've saying is like I refuse to I'll

never tell 83% of Americans that it's

awful and terrible to show ID to vote.

Mhm. You know? Yeah.

I'm say I've said that publicly again

and again and again. 71% of Democrats

have no problem with it. And you want to

know what really backed that up?

Wisconsin.

In April of 2025, they had a ballot

initiative to show ID to vote. That

passed nearly two to one. They also

elected one of the most liberal members

of now the Supreme Court in that same

election. It's not controversial to vast

majority of Americans. I'm never going

to be in the business to tell 80-some

percent of Americans that you're you're

Jim Crow or you're trying to suppress

votes.

Fair enough. Uh well, let's come back to

the DHS point you made earlier. You were

one of the uh

you were the only Democrat actually to

vote to fund DHS.

But you did say that agents in Minnesota

lost the plot. What's your red line on

immigration enforcement? So, what should

ICE be doing and what should ICE not be

doing?

There should never be a red line.

Never shut the government down. Just

don't do that. We used to be the party

that refused to do those things. We were

outraged outraged when Tuberville was

jamming up some of the military

uh promotions. Freak out. Freak out.

You know, and now here we're We shut the

whole damn government down. I was one of

only two Democrats to push back on that

last year and now I'm on the only one.

If it's wrong for them, then it should

be wrong for us as as well, too. But

just to focus on ICE. I mean, ICE's

actions in Minnesota, where do you think

ICE should be doing immigration

enforcement and how versus what do you

think they shouldn't have been doing?

Yeah, I For me, you know, hey, I was I

was the Democratic lead on Laken Riley

bill.

Because that was a serious bill. They,

you know, Katie Britt called me up and

saying, "Hey, what do you think?" And

I'm like, "Yeah, 100%." Yeah, let's

let's work together on it. That that's a

serious that's a serious effort.

Uh and now

I led that and enough Democrats broke

cloture on that. That's why it's a law

in America right now. You know, I'd like

to think that my credentials on border

security as a Democrat is platinum, you

know. Uh and I even I voted for Noem,

one of the few Democrats to her. I met

with her, treated her with respect, you

know, refused to use the kind of sexist

and gross terms like ICE Barbie and

those kinds of thing. Refused to do

that. She absolutely lost the plot. I

called for her to resign. She became a

Mayorkas.

I was a Democrat calling out that

Mayorkas was a disaster without a doubt.

You know, we cannot This is

unsustainable and this is uh

damaging our nation and making it

impossible to deliver an American dream

for any migrants at that point.

>> Do you think that ICE's mandate should

be to remove every illegal immigrant

from this country? Or do you think that

they should be going after just one

group and leave others and we have to

legislate? What's the right way for ICE

to operate? No, you know, you have the

vast majority of Americans secure our

border. They've done that without a

doubt. And

deport every criminal.

They're they they they gone. And now

you know, Pennsylvania, that's our top

industry is is farming, agriculture.

And constantly that's their issue.

Labor, labor, labor. It's it's really

problematic. You know, targeting

otherwise lawful migrants, I don't think

that's what America really wants. And

honestly, that's not what America needs.

You know, you know, we they are an

important part of our economy and the

finding a better way to address that.

I'm I'm hey, I'm here for that

conversation. My wife was a dreamer. You

know, I I would love to work with the

other side. You know, I shouldn't punish

a two-year-old that was brought here,

had no idea

at that age. You know, so I think

they've made you know, important

contributions to our nation. I'm a I'm a

pro-Democrat. I'm excuse me, I'm a

pro-immigration Democrat, but I'm the

also the only Democrat that views they

shut our government down the way that's

where at and I'm becoming the only

very proud supporter of Israel. And I'm

the only Democrat that's saying

destroying a regime, you know, that like

Iran is a good thing.

So

Do you think that that creates a bad

incentive with the what people call

anchor babies where an immigrant comes

to the United States, has a baby and

then stays and the baby has citizenship?

That seems to be one of the the the kind

of big debate points right now.

Well, I mean for for for me I I

I what what I will say is is like if you

secure a border, that makes those kinds

of things more and more difficult or

unlikely to to happen. Now, I you know,

back in 2023, you saw the numbers.

300,000 people showing up at the border.

You know, that's the size of Pittsburgh.

I describe that in terms of

Pennsylvania. The the size of Pittsburgh

is showing up at the border, that's

unsustainable. You know, we have to do

something about it. You know, Mayorkas

had to go. He's been a liability. That's

why I described Gnome and I called her

to to go.

>> What was Why did Why did President Biden

open the border? What was the

motivation? What have you heard from

Democrats?

>> I'll tell you that that the truth is I

was shocked when when they dropped

Article 42. You know, in my primary,

it's like we all ran on that. That

wasn't controversial. I was stunned when

they dropped that and you could see this

you know,

right up after that. Was it to reduce

labor costs or to bring in Democratic

voters or what was the motivation do you

think from the party? And you must speak

to party leadership that tells you why

they're justified or were justified for

doing that when they did it.

I I I

don't know, but I was I was alarmed and

I was honest. It's like, you know, for

me like for any politician, if you are

telling the people they're eyes that

you're crazy or not right, you lose. You

know, and we were punished. We were

punished in 24. The border was a serious

serious failure as as Democrats. So,

it's like

holding us accountable and now that's

part of our responsibility to learn from

from that situation. Now, and I do hope

and I do hope the Republicans learn from

Minneapolis doesn't help anybody. That

that doesn't you know, it doesn't help

your cause, you know, and it and then

people that absolutely

the optics, whether that's the optics or

the kinds of tactics, any of that,

you're not winning anybody over. Right.

So, I want to

switch gears to my favorite topic, which

is the the fiscal condition of the

United States government. We have $40

trillion of debt, and we're going to

have a $2 trillion deficit this year. A

trillion dollars of that is just

interest on the existing debt. That

number is getting bigger and bigger

every year. And a bunch of programs are

going to run out of money, including

Social Security, which is projected to

run out of money sometime between, call

it 5 and 10 years from now. This is a

classic debt debt spiral problem.

You know, what is how much does Congress

pay attention to this problem? Is it

something that's talked about? Because a

lot of the conversation seem to be about

what the polls say, so that people can

get elected again the next cycle, versus

looking at this big looming debt problem

we're facing, and how we're going to

address it.

Yeah, debt debt's a huge concern for me.

I mean, you know, I'm I'm old enough to

remember when a billion dollars meant

something, or that was a lot of money.

And now the trillions are becoming more

kinds of

it's not kind of like Social Security.

Social Security, for example, now they

just need to make some small small

adjustments for actual on the actuarial

kinds of things, and that could extend

it well into the 20

2070s to the 2080s. Just small small

kinds of things. That wouldn't require

real leadership, and that would require

them to just put down the partisan guns

and just stop attacking each other and

find a real solution for all of

Americans. And now you'll never address

debt until you both sides agree

we're going to stop tearing each other

apart. We're going to find a way

forward. You know, I hope I hope more

Americans want my views of why just turn

it into just

a professional wrestling or do you

really want to find a better way?

>> [laughter]

>> And you know, like effectively if you

turn

Washington D.C. as the Jerry Springer

show,

you know, you asked me earlier what's

the leader of the Democratic Party right

now? I would say it's TDS.

That that is that's driving the

conversation. If he supports, you know,

he could come out for ice cream and lazy

Sundays and now suddenly Democrats would

hate it. We would want to vote it down.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's there's also a

lot of discussion right now about fraud

in the government. I don't know if

you've seen these videos out of

Minnesota and this guy Nick Sherry doing

them out of California.

Yeah, let me let me say that. Let me say

that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I

absolutely. Like why can't you celebrate

any journalist or any, you know,

activist doing that? And what you know,

Governor Newsom put out a disgusting

video implying that he's, you know, a

pedophile or he's that that. Like why?

You know, like I mean like that's like

kind of a smear. You know, like you can

you may you want to disagree or but to

imply that someone someone in one of the

most

gross kinds of terms like that. Well,

it's like hey,

shouldn't we agree like, you know,

eliminate all the waste? If it exists

under under my purview, let's eliminate

it. Let's call that what it is. You

know, I'm not going to call someone or

imply that you're you're a pedophile or

you're, you know, going after kids in

gross ways.

But what's crazy to me and so many other

people that have seen these videos, it's

to then see reactions from leaders in

the Democratic Party saying, "We don't

have a problem. This is racist. This is

whatever." And and denouncing that the

reports of this

but when you see this fraud, it angers

everyone. You're spending money as a

taxpayer and then you're giving the

money away to fraudsters. It's It's

>> It should It should It should. Yeah, it

should It should You should be angry.

And, you know, like fraud can happen on

both sides, but when it's identified, I

don't care if it's in a Democratic

state, like we should all just

acknowledge maybe there is a problem

here. This is part of the thing. If you

tell voters that you're wrong or, you

know, hey, it's no problem, there's

nothing here, then you lose. And now

that you you want to turn that into If

you want to turn that into like the

border, you know, with Democrats as in

2023, you know, we do that at our own

peril.

You're You're so rightly critical of so

many of these points, John. Why are you

still a Democrat? It passed.

Yeah, it So, save just passed. My

staffer just handed it to me. 51

>> kidding.

Wow. They They went forward, huh?

Yeah, it's going It's going forward.

To debate, yeah. Yeah, it goes to the

debate. Yeah. And so, what do you think

will happen there? Will this last

couple days, a week? I mean, how's this

process going to go?

I I have no idea. I I I am not going to

pretend to know exactly how the next

couple days are going to look. The

question I asked just before that was,

you know, you're rightly critical of so

many of these positions that the

Democratic Party leadership takes. Why

are you still a Democrat? Have you

thought about switching parties?

Because I am a Democrat, and it's not

because I've changed, it's because

because, you know, parts of my party has

changed right now.

And that's that's where where I'm at.

I'm going to continue to be an

independent voice. I'm going to call

balls and strikes. I'm always going to

pick country over

uh

part of my

base or what they demand.

Yeah. One of the

One of the clear rising themes right now

in this country going into the the and

probably going into '28 for the

presidential election cycle is the

massive wealth inequality in this

country. Do you think we have massive

wealth inequality and is it, you know,

can you identify the origin? Where is

this coming from?

I don't I don't really know.

But I I don't hate billionaires. I don't

make them the problem. You know, that

with Democrats we love billionaires if

we're supporting our we're supporting

our causes or they're they're

underwriting, you know, things that are

near and dear to us. In fact, we

actually have a billionaire as a

Democratic governor. You know, that

doesn't mean he's an oligarch and trying

to destroy America. You know, so like

it's about trying to be more honest and

stop attacking each other and find what

we can agree on now. But we live in the

kinds of attention economy and just

you know, saying outlandish thing and

making you know, crazy statements. You

know, yeah, that drives the clicks, but

that's not government. That's not

government.

>> it's on the ballot now in California to

pass a wealth tax.

And it starts as a one-time 5% tax for

billionaires.

But it gives the legislature in

California the ability to lower the

threshold and make it every year if they

wanted to and change the percentage.

Ro Khanna and Bernie Sanders have talked

about passing a national wealth tax. Do

you think we are going to find ourselves

in that conversation in 2028 and we're

going to have a national wealth tax?

Where eventually, just like we started

with a 1% income tax, eventually

everyone will pay a significant

percentage of their net worth every year

to support government services.

I mean,

uh

Senator Sanders has never represented

more than a very small, you know, state,

you know, like win win a competitive

state.

Uh so, you have your own ideas and, you

know, like we'll see what really is

required to to

to win.

You know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so let me

ask he's also recently called for a

moratorium on building AI data centers.

I work in Silicon Valley as do my

co-host.

>> China China loves it. China loves

>> China loves it.

Yeah, let's

hand hand AI that race over to the

Chinese. Why do you think leaders in the

party are supporting this idea? It's so

obvious what's going to happen if we do

this.

But um you know, do you think AI is

going to increase wealth disparity in

this country?

>> Win win a real you know, competitive

election. Win one. Then you can lecture

me or you can tell me hey, what's the

right direction. I otherwise you know,

like

it's it's like they are the they are the

part of the party that's so hyper

critical. You know, and those kinds of

excesses like defund the police uh and

and uh abolish ICE and these uh

outlandish kind of thing. You know,

they're the same part of the party now

that loves the dude with the Nazi tattoo

on his chest. Right. And then I I just

want to cover agriculture real quick.

I've heard reports that the vast

majority of US farms lost money. You're

on the Senate Ag Committee, which is why

I'm asking this. And this is becoming I

think a big national issue that the

majority of US farmers lost money last

year if not for the federal government

providing support payments, crop

insurance, and what have been one-time

bailouts. Do you think we have a path to

fixing agriculture in this country? And

how do we get farmers back on track

where they can earn a living without

requiring checks from the government?

Farming is such a hard job. I absolutely

revere American farms, especially in

Pennsylvania ones. Their job, you know,

quite literally feeds us. I fully

support all of their efforts. You know,

I was deeply troubled by many many of

those tariffs. And also the ones that I

talked to, labor labor, labor has made

that very, very difficult. I we know we

should celebrate and support farmers

because I know because I've visited

enough farms to see how hard,

back-breaking labor it is to just

deliver food to your table. So, that's

part that's part of it and that's kind

of connected to things. Thankfully, we

have the kinds of abundance in our

nation for our food and I know why um

that's why uh

that's part of the immigration

conversation, that's part of the tariffs

and that wherever like that. So, so the

kinds of things that are hurting a lot

of the people that are just almost

forming uh uniformly

red

parts of of my state.

Yeah, and and and just to wrap up, I

mean, you you've said you want to save

the Democratic Party not abandon it,

which you know, you repeated here today,

you're Democrat, but you know, with only

22% approval rating among Pennsylvania

Democrats, I mean, how do you carry this

forward?

And

you know, what's the way to kind of

bring this party out of the doldrums, if

you will, that there's a lack of

leadership and a lack of moral clarity,

as you call it?

Well, as as I said earlier, there was

there was there was a poll out that was

was current to that and it has me around

50/50.

You know, that that's very more

accurate. So, I'm not worried about 28.

You know, we have Iran, we have a lot of

other things right now. So, like I'm

just I'm not I'm not uh you know, the

parlor games about something, you know,

like I've never felt better of just

voting my conscience, voting country

over party and just following the moral

clarities in really, really important

kinds of

of of things like destroying Iran,

securing Israel, and standing

with

the Jewish community and Israel after

everything that they've been through and

how close how much [clears throat]

more

optimism of of real peace. You know,

yes, that's there's a lot of warfare

now, but then I think that's a path for

for more enduring peace. There's been a

lot of genuine speculation that you

might run for president in '28. Is that

on the table?

I'm I

you know, it's like about '28.

I I I don't know what what what America

wants or the direction. You know, I'm

following what I've just said that's the

moral clarities and Well, thanks for

speaking your voice. Senator John

Fetterman, I appreciate you being with

us on All In today.

This has been great. Thank you. I I love

conversations

with anyone's that's just a real

conversation. Yeah.

>> Calling people names and saying

outlandish thing Um that doesn't make

anyone

um

I don't know. Like I refuse to engage

in. So, thanks for

>> It's it's it's a breath of fresh air,

honestly, and I really appreciate it.

Thank you, John.

>> [music]

>> I'm going all in.