Here's a technology that is potentially

more dangerous than nuclear weapons. We

didn't let Oppenheimer start a company

and start selling bombs to China.

>> That's a good comparison.

>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Carara Swisser

>> and I'm Who am I? I'm Scott Galloway.

Sorry, I'm jetlagged is what I am. So,

um, uh, first off, I have to ask you, by

the way, in you've doing a lot of stuff,

but did you watch the enhanced games

last weekend?

>> I didn't, although I got to be honest,

I'm sort of here for it. I mean, I I

kind of had this idea to just take no

holds barred and let freak shows show

up. Uh, people are doing this to

themselves anyways, but I did not I did

not watch it. Although,

>> let me just say, let me for people who

don't know, the enhanced games is a new

sports event that allows athletes on

performance-enhancing drugs and

encourages them to try to break world

records. Events included swimming, track

and field, weightlifting, and strongmen.

The experiment calls itself a global

movement that unites humanity, of

course, is a publicly traded company.

Investors include Donald Trump and

Junior and Peter Teal. There's also a

German executive I've met many times

who's really into it. Um, there were no

things broken except by someone who was

wearing an the swimsuit that was barred,

this special swimsuit. I don't know. The

stock has gone down. I'm curious if

there was a fight where both of us were

enhanced, who do you think would win,

you or I?

>> Well, you know the answer there.

>> Me?

>> Yeah, 100%. I've never been in a fight.

Yeah. I'm not I'm not a violent person.

If someone hit me, I wouldn't know what

to do.

>> You've never been in a fight? Wow.

>> Never been in a fight in my life.

>> Neither have I, I think. Let me think.

That might not be true. No, I haven't.

No, I haven't.

>> No, never. you know, I was beaten up and

abused ex-wife, but um no, I was never

never been in a never been in a fight. I

think that I talk a lot about this that

I think that one of the cores to I never

miss a chance to to virtue signal and

preach, but I think one of the course

core principles of for men as they get

older is just quite frankly is emotional

regulation. you know, are you willing to

sit in discomfort and uh do you have

control over your your physical and

mental well-being?

>> Well, it's an impulse to punch, right?

It's an impulse to punch and men have it

much more. I have Well, let me think.

Saul's probably the most aggressive of

my sense.

>> So, there's no arguing that men are more

violent, but that doesn't mean women

don't engage in violence. domestic

violence rates in LGBTQ couples um is

about 25% according to the National

Institute for Health and according to

the CDC anywhere from 17 to 40% of men

are victims of intimate partner violence

depending depending on the research

methodology there's discrepancy between

whether it was a phone survey or a web

survey

and then furthermore there's only about

three shelters there's only three three

shelters across the entire US devoted to

male domestic violence. Um there's still

a lot of shame and there's a view that

it might be under reportported.

>> Mostly women suffer from this problem,

Scott.

>> Yeah, but it's true. There's there's

there's an assumption.

>> Yes, I get it. Most violence is

committed by men in general. In general,

in general, murders, blah blah

everything. Every statistic is largely

men. I It's not really It's just I I I

do think it's a function of gender. I do

think it's a function of impulse control

and everything else, but I'm no

scientist.

>> Testosterone and cultural norms and

>> Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Manliness, this man.

There was a really great cover of The

Atlantic recently about the sort of the

man-hating groups and they're they're

always back. They're always like they're

back. I'm like, they're always there in

some weird way. Um, speaking of man, men

men, um, there's construction crews are

building the UFC fighting cage on the

south lawn of the White House in

preparation for the night of mixed

martial arts celebrating the 250th

anniversary of US independence. Over

4,000 spectators plan to watch from

inside the arena. Kind of looks like a

roller coaster. And uh, there's all this

complaining by Joe Rogan and others

about gnats and bugs and outside. And a

lot of some of the champions aren't

coming because it's it they don't

usually do it outside. Um and it creates

a if you're going for world, you know,

these these are actual competitors. If

you're going for titles, it's not it's

not a good thing to fight outside

apparently. Um weigh-ins will be held at

the Lincoln Memorial, which is I don't

know what to say about that, but okay,

fine. Fine. Fine. I I just don't know

what to say. I I it looks it's ridic,

you know, it's it feels clownish, but

whatever. He's the president. I don't I

don't know what to say. I'm not going to

get overly angry about it, but it seems

ridiculous. But I don't know how you

feel.

>> I was invited. I said no. I don't I

don't enjoy that stuff, and I don't need

to be, you know, I I think it's

disingenuous for me to show up and break

bread or or party with someone who I'm

constantly critical of. Uh it the event

itself is brilliant.

>> You think?

>> Oh gosh. there there's just an entire

generation of of young men and and quite

frankly a lot of women their mothers and

their sisters who in America and this

will trigger some people still vote for

who they perceive will be most

beneficial for their husbands and their

sons and young men are doing really

really poorly and uh if you think about

government

in the United States largely speaking

has been feminized if you look at the

events the events are basically like you

know like the queen was merchandising

and throwing them for Government events

are very

feminine for lack of a better word.

>> Wait a minute. Come on, Scott. Today

you're very anti-women today. I'm not

anti-woman. I don't think feminine is a

bad thing. I'm just calling it

government things are feminine.

>> Oh, go to anything at the White House.

It feels like it feels like it's been

designed. Oh, 100%. They're very

>> They're very proper, gentle. They're

very feminine. And by the way, that

>> men can be gentle. I don't I don't think

that men can

>> Yes, men can demonstrate wonderful

feminine attributes.

>> You mean like metal giving is is a

feminine activity or

>> I would describe metal giving, but the

the event

>> a lot of metal giving at the White

House.

>> Government events and ceremonies tend to

be very what people would consider I

think somewhat more um well they're not

a UFC fight. They're not a competition.

>> UFC fight is way even like comedy. The

White House the White House dinner comes

the closest to sort of something

stepping out of what is seen as overly

planned, nurturing, appropriate. Yeah, I

think the events are very kind of very

feminine. And what is what are these

guys doing? They're throwing a UFC

fight. And it's kind of I think I you're

going to have they're going to have huge

viewership.

It says to Trump uh rein reaffirms his

his view of one of the reasons he won

the election and that is like I'm a

man's man. I see men. I appreciate quote

for lack of a better term masculinity.

Unfortunately, it's a [ __ ] up weird

>> performative dominant form of

masculinity,

>> but it's a brilliant marketing strategy.

Smart. I

>> I'm not I don't I think it sometimes

works. Like let me give an example of

this attempt to turn James Telerico like

the Steven Miller who is literally the

most weak weaklooking person you've ever

seen um is uh calling you know he and

others are calling because they're

terrified of Telerico. So they're

pulling out the anti-trans stuff

immediately saying the first trans

senator he doesn't know how to eat

barbecue. Is that a to Ted Cruz? Another

like someone I could easily beat in an

in a fight with the tofu barbecue. Uh uh

the idea of soy boy. I mean I this is

not manly in any way. This is like this

I don't and I don't think it works as

much anymore with people. Um it's do

it's deeply insulting. It it might work

in Texas. I hate to say it. I think they

the Telerico people should take this

very seriously because Kla Harris didn't

with the trans stuff that worked really

well in the election and it might work

in Texas, but they're trying to, you

know, paint him as gay. I think that's

what they're where's the girlfriend?

That's what they're uh trans. Is she he

trans? He's a soy boy. You know, this is

all like and what I think about it's so

grotesque because I'm like these are all

men over 50 or whatever. I don't I mean

Steven Miller looks over 50 even though

he's younger. Um but this is this like

name calling bullying [ __ ] that is

not part of being a man. Any men I know

that I think are decent men. It's fine

if people want to do this. I when I was

a kid I went to fights with my

grandfather and went to wrestling

matches. He was a promoter. Um and he

loved it. Um so I see the the the

entertainment and everything else in it.

But the the the the the soy boy trans

thing that they're pushing on Telerico

is so so ugly and toxic. And

unfortunately, it does work at some

point. I don't know if you think it'll

work in Texas, but it might. It

certainly could.

>> Yeah. I think I think there's a a fairly

large distinction between a sanctioned

sport where it's a lot of men in top

physical shape. Um I don't like it. I

don't enjoy watching it, but I I I think

that that is a legitimate sport. It's a

huge sport. It's I think arguably one of

the most successful sports of the last

several decades. It's a well-run sport.

Um creates a lot of economic value for

many of the fighters. So I, you know, I

I think you can,

I think in a bipartisan way, you can say

that the UFC serves a purpose and is

successful.

That the the ugliness around Taler Rico

is not only that one, it's not true, but

two, to assume that leving an accusation

that someone is gay or trans is supposed

to be negative. It trains young people

are people that if you call someone

that, your opponent doesn't call you

something unless they're trying to say

to the world that's a negative,

>> right? Absolutely. No. No, no, 100%.

>> And I I hope at some point people

regurgitate on things like that and say

quite frankly it's you know someone we

used to call in college you used to call

people [ __ ]

>> Mhm. Yep. Dikes and [ __ ] Yep. I got it.

>> To be gay is to be bad. It's an insult.

And at some point some people someone

says yeah and or what it's like people

online call me a Zionist. And I write

respond, "Proud Zionist." I mean, I just

at some point people are going to

realize going after people's sexual

orientation just says more about you

than it says about them.

>> It does. It's But it's it's a tactic.

They're trying to drum that in in that

race. And unfortunately, it might work

in Texas.

>> Well, it's an indictment on Texas that

these people have done the research and

and decided that it works.

>> Yeah. Yes. Absolutely.

>> So, I I I hope he responds. I will say

this that

>> I'm not sure what the response is.

>> In defense Well, I'm not gay. In the

fence of James Toller Rico, he and I

follow many of the same people on

Instagram. And it's not thought leaders,

Cara.

>> Yes, I know.

>> It's some scorching hot young ladies who

make their living with a

>> with a with a webcam. Um,

>> they just they did it. They also trying

to do it to Andy Basher. They obviously

Betto everything. You know, it's a it's

to me it's mean at the end misogynistic.

And speaking of that, the Justice

Department has opened a criminal

investigation.

Of course, this all leads to the same

thing. The Justice Department has opened

a criminal investigation into Eugene

Carol, the former magazine writer who

won two civil lawsuits against Trump

totaling, you know, close to $90 million

in payments tied to sexual abuse and

defamation. The DOJ pro probe is

reportedly focused on whether Carol

committed perjury and testimony.

Typical, this is what they're doing to

whether it's to Leticia James or whoever

they're trying to go at. Um,

specifically, Carol saying she hadn't

received outside funding for her legal

bills. Her lawyers later said Reed

Hoffman had contributed. This is the

latest in a series of DOJ probes

targeting Trump's opponents and critics

like James Comey, Leticia James, and

others. Though none of these

investigations have led to convictions.

In fact, they get laughed out of court.

Um, I spoke to Egene Carol for an

episode of On in July 2025. She talked

about the threats she's received and why

she has no fear. Let's listen.

>> It's stupid to be afraid. Why live your

life that way? I've been here 81 years

and I'm not going to waste the last of

it worrying about that guy in marmalade

colored makeup. It makes no sense. So

that's what I'm going to do.

>> So what do you think about this? This

talk about misogyny and getting, you

know, she's won the cases against him

and he's trying not to pay them and he's

doing everything possible to try not to

pay them. And this is the latest Perry

using the Justice Department to carry

out his toxic misogynistic efforts.

>> I think it comes down to this. So one,

if she did say something that wasn't

true under oath, that's real. Um, and

they're claiming that she didn't

acknowledge that she was getting help

with her legal bills. I don't know to

the extent though in a case like that

that is grounds for revisiting a case

when it doesn't matter when it doesn't

have anything to do with the actual

crime she's accusing the president of.

What is consistent here is the

weaponization of the DOJ to go after his

political enemies.

>> So, this is just another example of the

fact that we don't have a government

that's meant to protect the people. It's

now there to protect the president. I

mean, ju just to keep in mind, folks,

this was a jury of his peers who heard

heard a ton of evidence and they said,

"Well, it was in liberal New York."

Well, okay, New York, if you had nine

jurors, five are probably Democrats, but

four Republicans and two to mature a

conviction, all nine have to agree. So,

so this was a you know this was there's

a reason that when someone is usually

convicted of a crime the public used to

come together and say this person is

guilty and you know should be

disqualified or you know we keep it

every time this stuff happened we keep

we kept thinking that's it. over and it

wasn't. But it's just uh I do think it's

important to have a a legal scholar to

say in most cases with this type of

infraction if in fact she and she did.

She did not acknowledge that she was

having her legal

>> bill. Depends on when she was paid.

They're going to have to investigate

that. But still, they're just they're

just grabbing its straws here is what

they're doing. That's what they're

trying to do to find some way to impugn

her and so he doesn't have to pay that

money. It's all the same. It's all about

money.

>> I don't even think it's about the money.

I think it's about overturning a

conviction of a perceived enemy and

going after her.

>> I think the guy the guy's made billions

of dollars illegally on crypto. I think

is

>> he still doesn't want to pay. He's a

cheap bastard. He still doesn't want to

pay.

>> I'm personally I'm surprised they did

this. I would have thought they would. I

think this just brings it up again. I

would have thought they would want it to

fade into the distance.

>> He doesn't care. He doesn't care.

Anyway, Eugene, uh we hope this goes

away, but it's such a it's such a

[ __ ] nuisance. It's such a ridiculous

nuisance. Anyway, uh let's go on a quick

break. When we come back, Pope Leo's

warning about AI. I'm very excited to

talk about this.

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>> Scott, we're back and we're going to

start off with our next topic with a

question from a listener.

>> Hi Cara and Scott, my name is Bridget

and I'm calling from Oakland. I'm asking

as a Catholic Buddhist pivotarian. I was

so delighted to hear that Pope Bob, also

known as Pope Leo I 14th, delivered his

first encyclical, which was about AI,

and he was speaking truth to power from

a place of power, which is pretty rare.

Have either of you read it? And if so,

what do you think? Do you think it can

move the needle towards putting guard

rails up for this juggernaut that's

really careening off the road already?

Or maybe even rein in those [ __ ]

who are mindlessly amping it up for

their own self-serving profits. Thanks

for all the humor and wisdom you've

provided over the years. And keep it up.

Haha. Yep. I just set Prof up for a dick

joke.

I love Bridget. I love our listeners.

Pivotarian. Let's start a religion.

>> That would be so good. Thank you,

Bridget. That was a great question. We

love your sassiness. That's the kind of

listeners we love. Um, so to catch

people up, Pope Leo released his first

encyclical uh this week, a 4200word

letter to all about AI titled

Magnificent Humanity. Magnifous. I can't

say it in Latin, but it's Magnificent

Humanity. The Pope acknowledged that

artificial intelligence can be a

valuable tool. did not trash it, but

also warned the Aoras could become a new

Tower of Babel. Um, he shared some

strong words about what needs to happen

next. Let's listen to him himself talk

about it.

>> Artificial intelligence needs to be

disarmed.

The word is strong, I know, but

deliberately chosen because this moment

needs words capable of attracting

attention, awakening consciences,

and indicating paths forward for

humanity.

>> Some of the specific things the Pope is

calling for, government regulation of

private companies, driving AI

development seems normal, protecting

children from violent sexual or fake

information generated by AI. Excellent

suggestion. safeguards to make sure

humans are responsible for all decisions

tied to the use of weapons. Again, a

great thing. He also didn't uh shy away

from talking about people at the helm of

AI. That was really the focus is who's

running it. In the abstract, technology

in and of itself is not a solution to

humanity's problems, just it is not

inherently evil. In practice, however,

technology is never neutral because it

takes on the characteristics of those

who devise, finance, regulate, and use

it. Uh some big tech folks are on board

here. Anthropic co-founder Christopher

Ola uh joined the Pope at the Vatican as

the encyclical was presented, but

reactions from DC and Silicon Valley

have been mixed. Vice President J. Dance

called the Pope's warning profound. That

was interesting, but Interior Secretary

Doug Bergam told Fox News, "I didn't

know what tech editorializing was part

of the role being a pope." Well, it is,

Doug. It's certainly not part of of your

role as interior secretary. Uh David

Saxs wrote, "The Pope rightly warns that

AI must serve human dignity, not become

a tool of domination of exclusion."

Well, someone who dominates and excludes

was a nice thing to hear. But it goes

on, if we hand go, of course he goes on,

if we hand the government sweeping power

over AI development in the name of

safety, how do we prevent it from being

used to censor surveil or control

citizens? Honestly, this guy is so

hypocritical. Anyway, um what did you

think of the take? And I think he's been

listening to Pivot or a lot of stuff we

talked about for years. I love Pope Bill

being on team on this team, but um

thoughts on this? Well, we talk a lot

about the actions of the administration

and different things that have just been

really bad for brand us, whether it was

the insurrection or

um you know, cutting off USA, there's

just been so many poor decisions that

have really hurt our brand. I actually

think the best thing or one of the best

things that's happened for the US brand

you to a certain extent AI and just the

economic boom out here and the fact that

we the most seinal technology in a long

time in terms of share creation and what

might have an impact on the world is

just owned and dominated by the US

that's very good for our brand. Another

thing that's been great for our brand is

is the is Pope Leo. He's just incredibly

articulate. He comes across as measured,

brave, connects real world issues with

spiritual issues and issues of dignity,

and he's American. He went to Villanova.

>> Yeah, that voice. Yeah, Chicago. He's

got such a Chicago accent. I keep

wanting to go the Bears.

>> Yeah. Right.

>> Yeah.

>> Um but just his comments, if you were

just to distill his comments that were

really powerful, he believes that AI

should serve humanity, not replace it.

Uh the biggest danger is the

concentration of power. He's clearly

he's talking a lot about income

inequality and he's he's skeptical of a

small number of companies controlling

the infrastructure of intelligence. Um

and he wants he thinks AI could amplify

inequality and create talked about a new

oligarchy where private firms wield

enormous influence over truth, labor,

and governments. I would argue that, you

know, the cat's already out of the bag

there.

One of the more controversial things or

interesting things I should say is you

said AI is not neutral that the

algorithms

encode the values of the creators not

some sort of neutral view on

>> of different views of humanity which I'm

not sure I actually think in a weird way

why social media has polarized us. I

think that because

>> I think AI is different. I think it's

more I do think from a viewpoint and

ideology standpoint it's more moderating

uh and sometimes it comes across as

quite politically correct. I think he

also talked about job displacement being

a real moral issue. Uh autonomous

weapons terrify him. He called for it to

be disarmed and worried about weapon

systems operating beyond meaningful

human control. And then he talked about

human connection. The thing I love, you

know, I like the softer stuff, human

connection mattering more than

>> synthetic intimacy. Um,

>> and then, and this is the thing I think

if if you were going to try and

translate this into some sort of

legislation, and we're not focused

enough on this, is that uh children are

are the most vulnerable. And I was just

thinking about,

you know, think about when you learned

to to write and how difficult it was.

Like I know you were on your school

newspaper.

>> Claire's doing it right. Yeah, I was.

But Claire's doing it right now. It's

really interesting to watch. Yeah. I got

I got a in my senior year of high

school, I got a C in English. I had a

real difficult time writing and I went

through that pain. I went through that

friction and if I had just had AI like

write my papers, I I never would have

made those connections. I never would

have gone through the friction of making

those connections. And so, and I think

the really

>> trouble writing. You're a very good

writer. Actually, I'm always

>> I got seasoned English.

>> Surprised on the upside with your

writing

>> because I did the work, right? And I

think the question is if you have if

kids have AI, do they ever do the work

and make the connections? As a matter of

fact, in my first year at UCLA, I was

failing English one and I said, "What

happens if you fail English one?"

Because it was a core class. You had to

take it. It was a requisite. They say,

"Well, you have to take English as a

second language despite the fact I

didn't speak a second language."

>> Wow.

>> Yeah, that was a pretty big I got my act

together.

>> Yeah. The friction. You're right. The

friction is what made you a better

writer to to struggle with it to to

figure it out yourself. And and this is

the problem and the threat of technology

across all of our youth. And that is why

venture outside and go through the

pecking order and the bullying order and

figuring out your place and trying to

find or join a gang if you will of

friends when you think you can have a

reasonable fact of friendship on Reddit

or Discord. Why why take risks go

through the expense humiliation enduring

you know rejection of trying to find a

romantic relationship when you think you

can replace it with synthetic lifelike

character AIS or or porn. So the the

defrictioning of life and AI kind of

takes it to a new level especially with

academia or academics it teaches young

people to never develop the key skills

they have to really uh be successful in

life and enjoy life.

>> Yeah absolutely I think most important

parts is this. I do think who's making

it matters and he was very clear about

that in terms of he was saying like for

example it's not the morality of AI it's

the morals of the people who make it and

I think he was talking about being a

very small group of people who are very

interested in um in in money really and

I you know I thought it was very one of

the things he was named Pope Leo because

of the last pope to do something like

this was over manufacturing and and the

mechanization of things and he's he's it

was very select elected to pick this

topic. He very carefully didn't insult

technology, but he really clearly

insulted its creators or said we need to

do better. And I think being the

conscience saying Doug Bergam is such a

[ __ ] I mean, of course, he's the

conscience of, you know, that JD Vance

acknowledged that. I think he's the

conscience of the world of his world and

it extends well beyond Catholics, let me

say. Um, and I think it's really

important for leaders like this to step

up. um and and and and suggested I do

think it does have an impact as people

are talking about it and they are

talking about the issues he brought up

including these safeguards around

weaponry protecting children and this is

already in the air with people and the

fact that the pope does it and stands up

and without any and then had some tech

people there I thought it was he's such

a savvy person I'm excited to see what

else he takes on and you know of course

the stupid Trump people call him the

woke pope but honestly he's just He's

the it's called conscience. It's not

woke. It's conscience.

>> But he did say just to wrap up when you

were talking about automation and uh the

last time technology appeared to be sort

of a threat.

>> You the industrial revolution mechanized

labor. And what he's saying is that AI

risks mechanizing judgment and

creativity and intimacy and even

>> meaning itself. And the way I would

interpret his comments was less

catastrophizing around AI will kill us,

but AI could potentially make us less

human while um concentrating

extraordinary wealth and power in the

hands of a few firms and states. I I

just think I think this guy distills

right to the core of the issues. He is

very smart. He is very impressive. He is

unafraid. I mean, as smart as he is, he

clearly had very smart people working on

these these

>> the people I've met at the Vatican have

been amazing. But I love that he called

it magnificent humanity. And by the way,

I love that he made cliffnotes for

people. He made a little chart which is

really good. It's an excellent chart. Um

I love a chart and I love a cliffnotee.

Um anyway, there's lots more a lot of

little stories, but important. Uh

installs for duck.gov jumped 30% after

Google announced its first overhaul in

24 years. Many people are disturbed by

this. Um Google changes include a shift

to AI with bigger, more interactive

search box that lets users ask longer

questions and upload photographs. It's

it's a significant change for search. Um

I have not used Google search in a long

time in a weird way. I do it I I

actually I definitely use it for some

things, but I tend to use I use all

kinds of search services, but it's not

only through Google is all I'm saying.

It used to be only through Google and I

like the simple box. I feel lucky box.

I've always thought it was fine, but I

see why they're doing it. At the same

time, a lot of people are like now

they're never going to link to anything

but what they want to link to, but

they've just sort of ended it for most

people using Google to get to say media

websites or whatever whatever you're

looking for. So that seems to be a

shift.

>> I think it's a smart bold move. I I

think they minus when you risk what is

arguably or do any twix the temptation

around what is the most profitable

largest toll booth in history. when you

risk, you know, there's just probably so

much momentum to like guys who don't

[ __ ] with it. Like, don't

>> absolutely

>> don't change anything. So, I think it's

actually a pretty bold move. And I do

find when I do Google search, those AI

overviews are actually quite helpful.

>> They've gotten better. They were bad,

now they're good.

>> You said that. You said you like them.

Um,

>> I do.

>> So, it's

I I think it's the right thing. They

have to respond. They have to push back.

The reason why Alphabet was such an

incredible buy, trading at 17 times

earnings last year, was the market

believed that OpenAI and AI queries were

a an existential threat to search that

it was become the new search. And what

we're saying is they're both growing

like crazy. So, but I find that I do

often times go to uh Claude instead of

Google.

>> Yeah, exactly. And Google just never

gives me what I want anymore. It's not

It's useless in some ways. And but when

I like look for like how do you boil an

egg or I don't do that but um you know

how many minutes for a jammy egg I'll go

to Google right that's but now actually

I might go to claude you're right I

might do that so they they kind of have

to you're right I know people are

bothered but it's ch they have to change

you're absolutely right um next up

President Trump abruptly postponed

signing an executive order on a after

former AISR David Sachs reportedly

voiced concerns it could prove too

ownorous for the industry he got back he

was had lost power then he got it back.

I guess the order would have granted the

government oversight on a new AI models

before they released to the public. Very

temporary oversight, by the way, and it

was some of it was voluntary. AI

companies also been told that Trump was

not happy that many of their chief

executives could not attend the signing.

That's probably more to the point uh

being invited just 24 hours prior. I I

don't think this order will resurface.

there was a a brief attempt by certain

people within the Trump administration

uh who who were who were more interested

in safety issues and uh David you know

got in there and and so did Zuckerberg

and um someone else I can't remember who

it was a third person um who got in

there and convinced him otherwise Elon

was Elon

>> this was uh I thought it was a good idea

um the order would have required AI labs

to share frontier models with the

government 90 days before public release

for

That seems like a very important and

basic first step for any of this.

Something that really struck me was the

founders of this technology, the people

that know more about it than any in the

world are saying that this technology is

potentially more liberating than

than nuclear fusion and potentially more

dangerous. So, here's a technology that

the people who understand it the best

are saying is potentially more dangerous

than nuclear weapons. We didn't let

Oppenheimer start a company and start

selling bombs to China.

>> That's a good comparison.

>> So,

>> that's actually a very good

>> Well, I think there's a really decent

rational argument that if in fact you

have something that is potentially more

dangerous than any weapon in history,

wouldn't you want the government

controlling it?

>> Yes. We want it to be part of the

decision. Not only we're not only not

controlling it, it's not only done it's

not only done under the opices of the

department of defense cooperating with

the private sector or Lawrence Livermore

Labs or what have you. We have people

trying to go public and who have lawyers

and lobbyists u many of whom stepped in

here to say you know we all talk about

the need for regulation. We've been to

this movie before. We talk about we show

up and stand next to the Pope and say

and cosplay Sher Samberg we need to do

better. Yeah,

>> we need to regulation

>> and then Oh, no. Get on the phone. Tell

him no. Tell him tell him to stop. Tell

him his his big bet on AI. 93% of GDP

growth is now from AI capex can't do

anything to get in the way. And if you

slow our runners down, the the free

games anabolic steroid pumped up Chinese

models are going to are going to come

for us and beat us. And there's no truth

to that. And if they did this correctly

and they had standards, government

review might actually make the industry

better and and make them less prone. You

know, regulation at this point would be

a feature, not a bug in terms of

capitalism and these companies ability

to know know how to develop what they

can, what they can't do, what they need

to check. But a 90-day review

>> I know

>> does it take what is it? It takes a drug

a decade to get through the FDA.

>> Exactly. It's ridiculous. I just there's

a real beef going on in the

administration and Sax is on one side

and some others are on the others and

we'll see. You know, eventually this

will happen for these companies. They

just want to put it off as long as they

can. And Sax is not working for the

safety of the United States or anything

else. He's working for his friends in

Silicon Valley. And that's

>> You know who's actually increasing AI

legislation and regulation?

>> China.

>> China. They are. That's right. The

Beijing State Council issued a 2026

legislative work plan in May with AI,

governance, language, appealing

>> and about jobs because they know what'll

happen if people feel a drift in China.

That's not something that can happen.

You're absolutely right. They're they're

so much smarter in how they handle these

things, which is really a depressing

thing to say.

>> They released they enacted binding rules

on AI emotional interaction, identity

disclosure, y

>> and content accountability.

>> They read the pope. So, you know,

anyway, We passed zero AI legislation.

>> Zero. Except in the states and there's

more to come. There there's a real anger

brewing and it is not not it's it's

something a Democratic candidate should

not like kill the billionaires kind of

thing or or or or pitchforks, but

there's a pitchforky. I was just talking

to Tim Miller on his podcast and he

feels a pitchforky moment and that's not

what you want. You want something that's

makes sense. And unfortunately, cuz the

tech people just can't possibly uh

accept any kind of of strictcture or

speed limit, they they they're going to

they're going to unfortunately get the

worst the worst outcome for themselves

eventually, but probably they'll be just

fine.

>> Well, hold on. Just to just to wrap on

this, just as Lincoln said, no country

can lose a war when it has public

support. No country can win a war when

it doesn't have it.

>> Yeah. If you look at what Chinese China

has done with AI and it has released a

series of um legislative policies and

around emotional security uh

concentration of power and it's made

them public. The difference is the

following. The Chinese now support AI.

87% of Chinese people trust AI versus

just 32%

of Americans because why? because the

Chinese believe that their government

has the ability to protect them against

AI and is regulating the technology

effectively. 54% of Chinese people

embrace greater use of AI versus just

17% of Americans. And 9 and 10 Chinese

age 18 to 34 said they had faith in the

technology versus four and 10 of

Americans in the same age group

>> and young people particularly. I mean,

good job David Saxs everybody.

>> So you have the populace of China.

>> Yeah. is embracing AI and trusts it and

trusts that they have a government to

kind of soften the edges or reduce some

of the externalities. Whereas in the US,

you have people driving hundreds of

miles to protest a [ __ ] data center.

>> Yeah, agreed. Agreed.

>> So that you want to talk about we just

get it so badass award. We think

>> well it it has to do with tech people

being up in Trump's grill and

controlling him.

>> That's what it is.

>> And Trump believing that a lack of

regulation he he doesn't understand the

difference between

>> move toward it though. Why did he move

toward it? Why was he going to It's

really interesting. There's just largely

probably because they wouldn't show up

to his party. That's my guess with him

cuz he's so ridiculous. Um but any in

any case, we have to move on to this

because this is a topic uh that you've

talked about. Uber COO says it's hard to

draw a connection between the company's

rising use of claude code and the

expense, especially the tokens and

innovation meant to serve consumers.

This comes after uh after reports the

company already burnt through its entire

2026 AI coding tools budget. This is to

buy tokens in just four months. Um, this

is this is a one of these indications

you were talking about, right? This idea

that what are we getting here for our

money? Uh, am I paying too much for this

muffler? That kind of stuff.

>> There 95% of CFOs in a interesting study

done by a professor out of MIT

said that 90 only one in 20 CFOs are can

point to a positive ROI and it's

starting to bubble up into a real

expense.

>> Yeah. And there's even Nvidia is

claiming they're spending more now on AI

internally than they're spending on

humans. And so this is it's going to be

very interesting car because for example

claude is about nine times more

expensive than some of the Chinese

openweight LLMs. And when the CFOs see

these bills and aren't immediately able

to connect it, like Uber's blown through

its AI budget, you know, in a few weeks

or a few months, and someone's going to

ask,

>> how is this making the consumer's

experience with Uber better,

>> right?

>> And this is how the whole thing unwinds.

one a a really credible CEO says, "Okay,

we're going to scale back our investment

here until we can figure out a way to

more directly attach to some sort of

consumer benefit or ROI." And I think

where if you go second and third order

effects, I think it goes the following

places. Supposedly 80% of startups are

hacking or using some sort of Chinese

openweight LLM. One, they use less

expensive chips. They have cheaper

power. I also think they're pricing it

below market because a lot of local

provinces in China have sort of their

local champions that they're

subsidizing.

And I think what we're going to see is

the Trump administration when they start

to see companies opt for their cheaper

Chinese models. We've been to this movie

before. China steals our IP.

>> Y

>> develops 80% of what we have and sells

it back to us for 40% on the on the

dollar.

>> Yeah. Can I I'm going to interject. One

of the things Mark Cuban had when I was

interviewing Daru Emodi at a recent

event um I said send me a question

>> um and I said I had just written his

essay Daario's essay uh machines of

loving grace um and he Mark wrote me

this the first thing he wrote me back

was explain the token economy to

everyone here do you see a scenario

where the high cost of tokens makes it

cheaper to hire people for certain jobs

I thought that was a great I did ask

that it was a really it was he was

already clocking this this issue that

maybe people are more less expensive

than this token these tokens that that

costs and tokens are what you spend on

computing just for people

>> humans are less expensive and

>> or can be

>> I mean cloud I think it's cloud cloud

code max or cloud m I've already run out

of tokens I'm playing with this [ __ ] so

often I had one of those prompts that

says you need to upgrade to cloud max

which is $200 a month what's interesting

>> do you get the benefits do you get the

benefits of the money you spend or just

you're playing with

At this point, it's well worth it for

me. I'm just fascinated by it. I have

discussions around

>> So, it's a hobby.

>> Yeah. And I also use it to I use it to

find data. If I'm struggling, if I have

a paragraph that just sounds clunky, I

say I say, "How would you edit this or

what analogies would be better?"

>> You know, you could call me for free and

I would probably do a better job.

>> You're not available. And by the way,

define free.

>> I I actually think

>> in terms of in terms of economic cost, I

would say it's free. In terms of

non-economic costs, I would argue you're

you're pretty expensive.

>> Anyway, we have to move on.

>> As sitting bull said, "What is free

white man?"

>> Oh, sick.

>> But but what's interesting what I found

out about Claude Max, the $200 a month

thing that I'm about to upgrade to.

>> Oh, you're going to do

>> is that it costs them

>> for for you to use Cloud Max. It costs

Anthropic $5,000 a month,

>> right,

>> to deliver that product to you.

>> Amazing.

>> Yeah. just the the cost on

infrastructure and power

>> once we sell more we'll volume we'll

make it up in volume right is that the

>> well no the the what they're hoping is

the the laws one of the first economic

concepts you learn is that and it's

called it's not Jehovah's paradox I

forget this guy wrote a brilliant paper

on it but I just thought he just

summarized the term elasticity but the

economic term elasticity is that as the

price of something goes down the demand

for it goes up and everybody thought

well as computing power goes down and

becomes

cheap chips will go out of business

because you won't need as many from

Intel. And what happens is as the cost

of something goes down, more and more

people use it. And there's a viable

argument, and I've sort of been making

this argument about what I call

apocalypse, snow, and that is all the

catastrophizing around labor

destruction. It's total [ __ ] that

as the cost of AI go way down, we're

going to find more uses for it. We're

actually going to end up hiring more

programmers or vibe codes.

>> Could be. I I do think the costs are

going to actually go down eventually,

but just not today. All right, Scott,

let's go on a quick break. We come back,

we'll talk about Elon possibly combining

SpaceX and Tesla just as Caris Fisher

predicted.

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>> Scott, we're back with more news. As

SpaceX prepares to go public, rumors are

again circulating that Elon Musk will

eventually combine the company with

Tesla. Obviously, God, I mean, we're not

speaking, but I know how this guy

thinks. Musk has reportedly discussed

the possibility with colleagues that two

companies are already share engineers

and collaborate. There's all kinds of

cross stuff that lot of sketchies cross

stuff if you recall at the time when he

took over Twitter and collaborate on

power and compute issues. Also, um uh by

the way, SpaceX got a $2.29 29 billion

dollar contract to build a satellite

communications network to connect

military sensors and weapons platforms

around the world. Um they have to

deliver an operational prototype by the

end of 2027. So he's doing well. He's

doing well with his his Trump uh uh help

of Trump etc. The B it's a mutual

benefit society for them. But this uh

this putting Tesla in here, it just

makes complete sense is that he's

someone said it was like two it was

mortgage back securities, a bunch of pe

bunch of companies that can't pay

wrapped around Elon Musk and a company

that's okay, which is Starlink. Um so

it's like a sort of a collection and so

he's shoving this stuff all together. Um

the it makes sense on a data point of

view. Um it makes sense uh to hide a

bunch of stuff. uh he already had these

weird very questionable transactions

like buying cyber trucks for for SpaceX

which makes no sense except if you want

to look good. Um so why not just mash

the whole [ __ ] thing together and

then make everybody buy it uh who is in

an index fund which is another thing. So

any of these comments the contract the

merger the the NASDAQ situation.

>> Well you did predict it but my analogy

is the following. Um, Snow White is hot

and the prospect of getting to marry

Snow White is super exciting and Snow

White to SpaceX. But unfortunately to

buy SpaceX, you got to take on these

seven [ __ ] weirdos who are expensive

and neurotic and I mean XAI, which has

been attached onto

uh SpaceX, an incredible company, is a

money furnace that's playing catchup and

>> trying to be an infrastructure provider

now. So is so is um Meta, by the way.

But go ahead.

>> I still think Tesla's a great product. I

got him one the other day and I do I do

think they have a fantastic car, but

it's a struggling business with a

multiple of 192 times Ford earnings and

Apple trades at 33 times forward

earnings. And then if you look at

Tesla's just business in the in in

Europe, they've

>> fallen off sales have fallen for 13

consecutive months. Its market share in

Europe has gone from 1% to8% while the

EV market has expanded about 30% in

2025. In Norway, sales are down 90%,

Netherlands down 80%, UK down 50%.

Buying it.

>> Meanwhile,

>> BYD registrations are up 260%.

>> Yeah.

>> In Europe. And the reason why it's

valuation, I didn't say it was a bad

car. I said he didn't innovate in it.

There was another new car. And BYD keeps

innovating. Every time you see a new

one, you're like, "Cool." Tesla's the

same pretty much the same car for the

past. And then they deliver Cybert truck

as their innovation. So that's my beef.

>> Stocks are like brands and that is

they're part promise and part

performance and the promise. No one

articulates and gets more cheap capital

on the promise part of that equation

than Elon Musk. He's arguably the best

salesperson and communicator in the

history of the public markets. And the

promise though the performance is is

like so far behind the promise. For

example, the promise has not worked out.

So robo taxi miles, they doubled

sequentially in Q1, but it's he was

saying that there would be a thousand

robo taxis on the road about 5 years

ago. Uh across all three Texas cities

where robo taxis operate, Tesla has just

25 unsupervised vehicles. Um I mean

none, right? Meanwhile, their SF robo

taxi service still uses a safety monitor

in the front seat. And there are five

and there are five more cities on the

way, but must timelines famously cannot

be trusted. And then and then he tries

to create all of these distractions.

Look over here at robots. I'm staying

I'm staying in Beverly Hills in Los

Angeles. If I go to my my deck, I can

see a Whimo. They're everywhere in LA.

Garrett,

>> there's actually fewer uh of the Tesla

taxis robo taxis in in Austin. They've

cut them back.

>> And then

the worst car release or you know the

worst tech product the last year was the

Cybertruck, which by the way is about to

be bested by one of the great brands in

history. You're about to see one of the

biggest brand failures in history and

that is the equivalent. Tech has

literally like infected so many things

and it's infected one of the purest

brands in the world. It's infected

Ferrari. The new electric Ferrari is

about to be just panned.

>> It was Yeah. Yeah. It's getting panned

right now.

>> Oh, it's going to be Johnny the Johnny.

>> It's going to be one of the brand

stories of the year.

>> They said it looks like a Honda, right?

It's basically they said Apple gave up

on their project Titan and they slapped

a they slapped a a stallion on it.

You're going to see oh my god you're

going to see the Ferrari Pierce. You're

going to see so many 80-year-old old men

going on to Tik Tok for the first time

in their lives to ship post this thing.

And SpaceX, get this, SpaceX accounted

for nearly 20% of Cybertruck sales in Q4

2025 cuz he bought back a bunch of

Cybert trucks. So I think it's smart for

him to do. It's more jazz hands. It's

more pretending, attaching something to

something amazing to try and

>> Yep.

>> I mean, he's very good at this and you

predicted it, but to take put Elon on

top of something that's very exciting

around rockets, data centers in space,

>> rockets.

>> Yeah. And he is a visionary. We need to

be an interplanetary species

>> and now you have to buy it with NASDAQ.

Explain to people very briefly what that

is so so people understand. the index

fund issue is that it's they they've

lowered the amount of time before J big

IPOs go into the index and now people

are going to be forced to buy his

company.

>> Um also open AI also anthropic etc.

>> So basically the rule was before you

joined the S&P you had to be profitable

for a certain amount of quarters and you

had to be in the index for at least a

year. They've waved those rules because

they realize and it makes sense they're

big important companies. What that means

is if you invest in an ETF or an index,

you're automatically own these companies

at those prices. And at these prices, at

these valuations, I would argue, I mean,

to a certain extent, the IPO markets

might be over. And that is the way I see

it is the the reason we went public, the

reason Google went public was you

couldn't raise three or 5 billion from

venture capital and private institutions

in 1997. Now there's almost as much

capital, if not more, in the private

market. So logically you have to ask

yourself why does a company decide to go

public and one reason it's a branding

event two it creates more liquid

currency potentially but these companies

have very liquid currency on the

secondary markets they do it because I I

think largely speaking and they don't

want to say this out loud once the

private investors go look this thing's

getting pretty frothy most of the juice

has been squeezed out of it well who is

stupid enough to take the valuation even

further up well okay the last stop on

the Trump on the chump train right now

is the public markets. So, typically a

company like OpenAI would have gone

public when it was worth 30 or 50

billion. But the existing investors of

Open AI and Anthropic say, "Oh, no, no,

no, no. They're still juicier. Let's

keep this to ourselves and we'll find

you capital." And then when they start

going, "Wow, this valuation is rich for

even us. Let's go see if mom and pop

retail investor and people on Robin Hood

and people on Reddit who love Elon and

people around the world who want to

participate in the e economy are

actually willing to invest. I my

prediction is these three companies,

especially AI, are going to go through a

pretty serious repricing. Not a collapse

like a 2000 collapse, but a repricing.

And then when you combine that with the

fact that you now have access to private

companies with different secondary

markets, potentially the tokenization of

small companies, it's just going to make

the IPO less and less relevant because

of the reporting standards. And this is

the indices trying to say we want to

make it more attractive for companies to

go public and also reflect the S&P

should reflect.

>> I get it. It's just that people

shouldn't have this shoved an

unprofitable company with with or held

up by one guy shoved down their throat

without it's like getting the you

is PNG shoved down their throat. It's

the same thing.

>> It is but it's a profitable company has

been a business like let's just give it

a

>> but the best returns have been in

companies that are growing faster and

not profitable.

>> Yes, it is. And at the same time, let

them buy it themselves then. I mean it

just seems like a risky thing to stick

in there this quickly. That's all I just

I'm like it's going to benefit the

people. It's going to benefit Elon Musk

but maybe not the pension funds of

nurses. Like I don't know and I just

don't think that risk is necessary.

>> In a weird way there's so many

>> index fund. I don't want to own SpaceX.

I don't want not right now.

>> I mean if you look if you look at the

valuation of these companies going

public it's going to be combined $4

trillion. It's like from 1980 to 2020

the amount of money being raised just

across these three companies is is just

staggering. And what it probably will do

in the short run is it'll probably take

the S&P down because so much money is

going to come from every corner of the

earth to to participate in these things

to raise $150 million. the rest of the

market feels that if you want to talk

about

I mean ju what happens I'm fascinated by

this because what happens when these

three companies go public 11,000 people

in the Bay Area Bay Area are overnight

imagine everyone who goes walks into

Madison Square Garden place is sold out

everyone who walked in was a 31-year-old

product manager making 180,000 or

$240,000 a year good living but some

student debt can't afford a house and

and they walk out on the worth 7 to $11

million. What happens? They have more

kids. They buy a new house as evidenced

by skyrocketing prices. Uh upside here,

you're going to see a lot of funds

started. There's also tremendous new

business development. The other thing

you're going to see, which is a good

thing, you are about to see the mother

of all increases in philanthropic giving

in the Bay Area.

>> One would hope.

>> Well, I do people do the these people do

start foundations. Let me just say if

you look at the actual statistics, it's

McKenzie Scott and then a which is an

enormous graph like a big long bar and

then all the others including Elon Musk

down here. I'm

>> talking I'm not talking about the big

ones. I'm talking about a lot of people.

Americans are very generous

philanthropic people and when

>> people sorry

>> I'm I'm not talking there's there's two

things here. When you do when you do

have this kind of liquidity event, you

do see a bump up in philanthropy.

Philanthropy is almost entirely

correlated now unfortunately to big IPOs

in the stock market and and a lot of

people give stock to universities in the

tax advantage universities.

>> That's what I've done. Every time I

invest in a private company, I give a

certain amount of it away to one of my,

you know, to either public education or

suicide prevention.

>> All right, Scott, one more quick break.

We'll be back for predictions.

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Scott, we're back and I want to mention

something quickly. CBS News just named

tech journalist Nick Bilton is the new

executive producer of 60 Minutes.

Builtin is a longtime tech journalist

and filmmaker who's never worked in

traditional broadcast news. I know Nick.

Uh, interesting. I'll see. It'll be

interesting to see what he has to what

he's going to do there. Um, and uh,

we'll see where it goes. This comes on

the heels of 60 Minutes correspondent

Sharon Alons announcing that CBS

declined to renew her contract. She's an

excellent reporter. She did great stuff

on Character AI. She's been a wonderful

reporter. The move comes 6 months after

Alonsy's report on abuse inside Salvador

and Prisons was abruptly pulled uh,

before airing a month later. Alonsi

called the decision political, and it

certainly was. In a statement, she said

she did a really uh like she just burnt

the house down leaving. Alonsi said the

exit is quote a deliberate choice to

penalize a journalist for refusing to

sanitize factually accurate reporting.

She added sends a chilling message

across the entire newsroom. And by the

way, Sharon's not the only one. Anderson

Cooper stepping out the way he is not

usually leaving a few weeks ago saying,

"I hope 60 minutes remain 60 minutes."

He also was sending sort of a a shot

across the bow there. I just want to

call it these two excellent journalists

of 60 Minutes and um Sharon's a badass.

I I don't I know are just met on text

actually but and Anderson I think has

done an amazing job. So these are two

really uh really great journalists and I

I predict that they will do just fine.

But good for them for for uh speaking

out and especially good there was a

student who won an award at the Emmys

last night which was named scholarship

for Mike Wallace and he delivered a

blistering attack on

supporting these these two journalists

and supporting others like them. And I

thought that person was incredibly it's

very hard to speak out and Anderson and

Sharon and this young student uh did so

and I I really you'll do you guys will

do just fine of Anderson particularly

but in general um good for you for

standing up. That's all I have to say.

It'll be a really interesting case study

in organizational behavior and

management classes in business school

and that is corporations continue to

fall for the notion that if they bring

in a small company they perceive as

really innovative that that small virus

is going to infect the entire corpus.

And generally almost always what you

find is that the corpus rejects the

virus. It's like acquisitions work when

the acquiring company has the scale and

distribution or capital to help scale

the small innovative company. But to

believe that the innovation is going to

infect the larger corporation or corpus

almost never works out. So let's give

let's give the free press the benefit of

the doubt. Innovative little company

subscription-based

interesting positioning and the

Ellison's thought that's the kind of

mojo and juice and infection we need at

this larger somewhat encphilletic corpus

called CBS or Paramount. There's been

Oregon rejection. Also, what CEOs of

smaller companies fail to recognize is

the following. And it's the reason why

I've never been able to grow a big

company to small companies. And that is

a small company is ready for our aim.

The person at the top really does get to

make swift, crisp decisions. I am the

decider. This is the way we're going.

Our one of our key things here is speed,

which means this is not a democracy.

There's very few things that are less

democratic than a small company trying

to work fast or go fast because it's

kind of like what do we think okay get

on it ready fire aim let's start

yesterday in a large organization that's

scaling it's more about consensus and

and getting people on board and culture

and you're you're a speedboat ramming a

tanker and what you fail to realize as

the CEO of a company like this and what

I think Barry has failed to realize is

you're Phil Jackson the coach of the

Bulls and that is Your job, you're

blessed with some unbelievable assets.

Your job is not to coach Michael Jordan.

It's to get along with him and be a

resource for him. You're not in charge.

They are. They're the asset. When you're

Mikuel Artetta and you're coaching

Bukayasaka at Arsenal, which by the way

just won the Prem League. This is very

exciting. When you come into an

organization like CBS and you do have

kind of these stars that are iconic,

your job is to get along with them.

>> Well, let me say 60 Minutes has been

enormously successful. It's not I mean,

no, but I'm just saying like pretending

it's just cuz they're in Sephletics and

this sassy new startup is going to

change things. I think a lot of these

errors are errors of incompetence, not

of trying to change things and these old

people won't change. These are like top

level journalists that were doing a

great job and has had 52 years of

success. Like, you know, they're doing

well. It's not like they're not doing

well. So, why

>> I I think we're speaking past each

other. I'm agreeing with you. CBS is

Michael Jordan.

>> Yeah.

>> Barry Weiss is Phil Jackson.

>> His job isn't to show up and reorganize

and tell everyone how to dribble and

play again. His job, quite frankly, is

to get The only management of CBS is the

following. Hi, nice to meet you. How can

I help?

>> That's it. How can I help?

>> Yeah.

>> And if the answer is go away and leave

us alone,

>> fine. If it's we could use more

resources here, we have trouble here or

we don't think our advertisers are,

>> how can I help? That's it.

>> Let me say one of the things it happened

at the Washington Post, too. blaming

these reporters like when Will Lewis was

like trashing the reporters is like it's

such an easy thing to do for people who

think they're innovative is like you all

suck and some of some of the things need

to change but to say it's it's a problem

of it's a bigger secular problem that's

the issue in terms of cost and

everything else and so just telling

people just breaking things is not

building things and that's that is

really hard to do when you're I that's

why we I never want to be at a big

company I don't know about you But I

like a being a small speedboat. And if

you make mistakes, you make mistakes. If

you don't, you don't. I That's how I

feel. But I don't know about you.

>> Oh, yeah. And this is this is a reason

why I've never built a billion-dollar

company. I saw companies, you know, when

they as soon as they have a CFO or

someone in HR, I'm like, time to sell.

But having been on involved with a lot

of big companies, I just shocked me. It

just shocked me right away. The first

thing I thought, well, we should do

this, this, and this. And the CEOs were

always, okay, they really had to think

about what would be required to get buy

in. Yeah.

>> to to potentially change the culture to

explain be thoughtful to

>> create the right incentive mechanisms to

ensure the behavior lined up. And I mean

you really are there's some amazing

things about a tanker, right? It can

carry whatever it is 100 million barrels

or 10 million barrels of a product. Uh

but you are you know you're steering a

tanker and it takes a lot of effort and

a big engine room and a lot of people.

It's it is a different there's so few

people that can go from a lot of people

I always say where are you in the

alphabet are you from A to D. I'm good

at A to D.

>> Yeah, me too.

>> Some people are good at coming in uh my

old CEO at L2 Ken Allard was good at

kind of D to D to H or I and some people

are can come into a company that's you

know gone public. Dar Kaser Shahi is is

amazing very good example is like great

from L to S. He came into a company that

was already jamming, scaling, huge

infrastructure, huge brand and said,

"Okay, somebody needs to get here."

>> And also, there's some people who come

into companies that are distressed who

take a company from, you know, whatever

it is, TZ. They come in and cut costs

and repackage something, take it through

bankruptcy, and make a lot of money.

>> Scott, your next book is The Alphabet of

Management. Yeah. All right. I want to

hear your prediction, though. So, I'm

I'm going to do I'm all confused and

jet-lagged right now. So, I thought we

were doing wins and fails. So, it's

okay. I'm going to do wins and fails.

But my win is and it just hasn't gotten

enough attention and it's just so

exciting and it's such a victory for the

west and I would argue it's actually in

many ways while Iran has overshadowed it

and inflation I people really don't

understand that something incredibly

wonderful is going on here

>> which is what

>> and that is three years ago Russia was

supposed to take Kev in a weekend.

>> Yeah. And today, Ukraine is striking

Russian Russian military infrastructure,

oil refineries, ports, bomber bases, and

semiconductor plants.

>> Hundreds sometimes sometimes more than a

thousand kilometers inside of Russia.

Putin is on the run.

>> He is. It's I told you when I told you

that a couple weeks ago that all these

people said Russia, he's in much more

trouble than you realize. But go ahead.

Just recently they've hit the Riazan

refinery, one of Russia's largest fuel

plants supplying the military. The

Touabsi refinery in the Black Sea.

They're going after ships. They're going

after the Black Sea fleet. Oil uh

infrastructure in Perm 700 miles from

the border.

>> Amazing.

>> The Yaz Yazavre refinery 700 kilometers

inside of Russia. And even the English

>> Imagine in this country that happened.

Jesus Christ.

If they started bombing oil fields in

Texas,

>> Buffalo, like or our military ships in

San Diego. Can you imagine?

>> No. No.

>> Or that's what I think about our place

our um in Canadians

>> or North Virginia building our

submarines. What if drones were hitting?

I mean, this is just

>> incredible. And it's a function of

drones. It's a function of it's also

quite frankly

>> you know we don't like to say this must

turning off Starlink in Russia has

seated huge advantage

>> to the Ukrainian army.

>> That's always been a benefit. No

question.

>> If you think about this

what are they doing? They're producing

thousands of long-range drones per month

uh in 2024. In 25 they're doing 3,000.

>> They're going to be a huge technology

country when this is all over.

>> Oh yeah. They they'll attract so much

capital assuming assuming

>> I'd go there if I was a young person.

That's exactly though the corruption is

really quite impossible to deal with but

um if I was a young person I'd go there

but there there are significant

corruption problems within that

government and

>> but there's a wonderful message being

sent to the world and that is um there's

a brutal lesson for authoritarians. Uh

corruption scales until it collides with

reality and technology and an motivated

populace. Russia built the PTM village

version of a superpower, yachts,

parades,

>> always

>> hypersonic missiles, um, shirtless horse

cosplay. And the Ukrainians, meanwhile,

>> I like that part. The Ukrainians,

meanwhile, build software, drones, and

engineers. And just some numbers here to

just talk about

>> how incredible this is.

>> You You're rushing them this morning.

What What

>> I'm not rushing you that you're

fascinated with are you about to go

interview? I'm not I'm not going

anywhere.

>> Seriously, what is it? The ghost of

Walter Montdale. Who's up next on on

with Cara Swisser? Russia has three

times the population, 10 times the

economy, nuclear weapons, and one of the

largest oil reserves in the world. And

Ukraine is kicking its ass.

>> I know. I love it.

>> And Ukraine, what does Ukraine have?

>> Ukraine has coders and hoodies.

>> Hoodies

>> turning Home Depot into Lockheed Martin.

I mean, these guys

>> amazing. So look, increasingly, and this

is a lesson for us, unfortunately right

now, the future belongs to the side that

can innovate faster than the other side.

>> The Iranians with the boats and the

drones and the

>> So that's my win. And it hasn't got

enough attention. This is so exciting

for the West, for Ukraine.

>> But can I make one caveat? If Putin

feels cornered and scared, he might do

something terrible.

>> Yeah, that's the fear.

>> You know that that's that to me.

>> Unless you're going to annihilate your

enemy, you got to give him a way out.

That's what that's Sunzu. And

>> yeah, but I don't think he think he

thinks that. I think he's terrified.

>> But this is a victory for for also for

the EU who has been steadfast in their

support unlike Americans.

>> Yeah.

>> Um I just I it's it's just very

exciting.

>> Trump will back him if they win. He'll

go like, "Oh, I'm with the winnows.

>> I'm with them. I was always behind him."

>> I was behind them. All right. What's

your fail?

>> My fail is I just I think the best way

Timothy Snder summarized it perfectly.

I've been trying to figure out a way to

describe what is effectively a $1.8 an

$8 billion slush fund that uh Trump and

his his spokesperson Blanch had been

trying to pitch and even even um some

Republicans are finally blanching.

>> And the best way to describe it is a

terrorist immunization fund.

>> Oh,

>> and that is commit violence on my behalf

and I will not only legally protect you,

I will pay you. Mhm.