I don't know if some of you knew I was

an angel investor in some companies.

On the count of three, what's my

favorite angel investment of all time? 1

2 3?

Thank you. Give it up, TRAVIS KALANICK.

>> [cheering]

[applause]

[applause]

>> APPRECIATE YOU. ALL RIGHT. WOW. Um on a

big news day Travis is here on a very

big news day. You spent

wow, guess like 7 years just in the lab

building.

Last year, every year I ask you, "Hey,

you want to come to the All-In Summit?

You want to" He said, "Nah, it's like

I'm going to just chill. I'm building."

Next year, "Hey, you know, just always

available to you." He said, "You don't

understand. I'm stealth." Yeah, he's

stealth. I'm stealth. Nobody knows where

I am. Nobody knows what I'm doing. The

employees are not allowed to put the

name of the company

on their LinkedIn. Thousands of

employees that weren't allowed to put

the company name on LinkedIn. I mean,

incredible. And I'm like, "Okay." And

>> Their parents thought they worked for

the CIA. Yeah, and then he's like, "And

by the way, Jason, you can invest. You

can't announce it, and you have to sign

an NDA. You can't mention you're an

investor." So, I'm like, "Okay, no

problem. I'm just happy to be on the cap

table." Is he like kind of like secret

saying what he wasn't supposed to say?

>> That's what I was Now he's talking about

the company.

>> What just [laughter] happened? You did

it. Well, you came Chamath, you're out

now. Okay, let's go.

>> You're out. It's out. You You came out

of stealth today. Um That's so funny.

Okay.

>> great. You came out of

>> Stealth Well, you you talked a little

bit. You came to All-In Summit last

year.

>> Is that fair? You say you're coming out

of stealth today? Is that right?

>> Well, look. Let's just start with what

that meant for our employees because

again imagine if you're at a

multi-thousand person company and every

single employee has stealth

on their LinkedIn.

Including sales people.

>> [laughter]

>> Okay? Including recruiters.

Like it was hard They They were they

were living life on hard mode.

It's kind of fun, too, right? I mean I

mean, yeah, they it was like

What's What is this? Why are there Why

is this massive density of stealth

>> Right.

startup people in Los Angeles? What is

happening over there?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Also, technically, the name

of the company in different countries

was very generic names of companies. I

mean, everything was designed to be

>> stealth. Right. So,

we operate in 30 countries.

In the US,

the kitchens product is known as Cloud

Kitchens.

In Korea,

it's Kitchen Valley.

In the Middle East, it's Namah.

In

Latin America, parts Latin America, it's

Cocinas Ocultas.

I mean, you get the idea.

>> You can't ever remember all the names or

all the code words.

>> about it, yeah.

>> The thing is through, um, but today

>> China. You know, it's like all over the

place, yeah. But things have gone really

well. And you've been a little

inquisitive. So, tell us about the

branding today that you're announcing,

and then maybe some of the acquisitions

and evolution of the company. You're not

just renting kitchen space. Those who

I mean, know how I thought about things

in the Uber day, a lot of this stuff's

not surprising. I I would often talk

about digitizing the physical world. I

think I even did it all at Summit.

The quick version of this, I'll try to

do it quickly, but it's like, we know

the bits world, the computer world, the

one that Michael Dell essentially

invented for us.

CPU, storage, network. These are the

three core computing resources. When you

go to computer science class your first

day, three core computer resources. CPU

manipulates the bits, storage stores the

bits, network moves bits from point A to

point B.

But if you're digitizing the physical

world, you're treating atoms like bits.

You're building an atoms-based computer,

and I'll explain what I mean to say. I

know this is a little little out there.

CPU manipulates bits, what manipulates

atoms? Manufacturing. Storage stores

bits, what stores atoms? Real estate.

Network moves bits from point A to point

B, what moves atoms? That's

transportation or logistics.

So, you have these three core computing

resources in an atoms-based computer.

The name of my company

was very obtuse and purposely designed

to be as boring as hell. Was called City

Storage Systems.

So, that's digitized real estate in an

atoms-based computer, our first computer

being a food computer. What does that

mean? Manufacturing, real estate, and

logistics for food.

And so, you start to get there, and the

idea the the mission was infrastructure

for better food. The idea was, can you

get a meal that's prepared and delivered

to you so efficient that it starts to

approach the

the the cost of going to grocery store.

If you can do that, you do to the

kitchen what Uber did to the car.

But in the Uber day, the roads were

there. The cars are unused. You just had

to put an app in the app store. Wasn't

that easy, but kind of that easy.

In this world, you can't do this on a

restaurant. Restaurant doesn't have When

I left Uber, 13% of all San Francisco

miles were Uber miles.

You can't get And that was 10 year 9

years ago. You can't get there

on food, on restaurants. They They have

like 20% capacity. Uber Eats and

DoorDash fill it, but the infrastructure

to do high-capacity, high-scale sort of

industrial production is just not there.

And the logistics just not there. It

just doesn't work. That's why on

e-commerce, you go through Amazon

big-ass warehouses

with awesome logistics. You've got to do

the same thing when food when food goes

to e-commerce. That was a lot. Okay, so

bottom line is

it's awesome.

We do this food computation stuff. We're

doing more computers now.

And so the name of the company is called

Atoms. And it's let's say the mission

is

is physical automation to transform

industries and move the world.

And so we have our food computer we

talked about. Then we do we're doing

mining. Mining as in mining minerals.

>> We're talking about atoms, guys. Yeah.

So well of course you do some mining

data mine, too. But the point is is

physical mining. So automation of mines.

And

the mission there is

more productive [clears throat] mines to

power Earth's industries.

Right? So it's got this industrial atoms

vibe to it. And then on the transport

side, it's wheelbase for robots. Cuz if

you're doing specialized robots, not

humanoids, specialized robots,

you need to be able to move and act in

the physical world.

But the minute you're moving,

you got to have a wheelbase. So it's

just part of the equation.

And a lot of people go look at Tesla,

it's great. Look at

look at Waymo, awesome. They're cruising

around Austin, of course.

But there's so many things that move.

It's not just a ride-sharing thing.

And so obviously including mining

equipment that's doing its thing. So you

guys that's the general sort of idea and

we acquired a company on the mining

stuff. A company called Pronto.

Or

it's about to close. It's we're we're

inches from closing is the way to put

it. What were they doing? What was their

business, Pronto? Automating mining

equipment.

>> Where are they based? They're based in

San Francisco. So you and I were

starting to talk about this backstage,

but there's some folks I talked to in

the mining industry who mentioned, you

know, like the the the big issue with

mining, number one, is just surveying,

like finding the the the locations,

right? Is there an advantage to be

created there cuz I know there's a

couple startups that are trying to be

really smart about selecting locations

to get the targets out of the ground.

Yeah.

>> And then the other one is like, well,

can you go deep because pretty much

anywhere on Earth you can get whatever

you want if you're willing to go deep

enough, but the cost is is distance

squared, right? So, the energy cost is

like, how deep are you going to the to

to the second power? So, it becomes, you

know, geometrically more expensive to go

deeper, but the deeper you go,

you're the more you're able to kind of

not worry about getting the right

location. So, does automation unlock

that capacity that

>> Automation definitely does. I mean, I

mean, also it's like, man, does Boring

Company have some good stuff going?

Like, I hope we we're like we're doing

the mining thing, like, and Boring goes

makes, you know, some good tunnels for

for cars to do the thing, but like,

there's some kind of boring mechanism,

automated tunneling to do some of this.

But, to be honest, there's there's, you

know, they have this this thing is like

rare earths. I don't know why they put

plural. Rare earths, isn't it? Rares'

Earth? I don't know. But, the

but rare rare rare

rare earth, yeah.

>> Yeah, but the it's not rare. It's a very

common mineral. Guys, it's not rare.

It's what you have to do the land is

aggressive. And what's rare is the is is

where the where are the places they'll

let you do it that you can also sort of

get people to.

When you automate, you can go to a lot

of places.

Uh well, first is all the mines that

exist are way more productive.

Um and the second is you can then sort

of justify going to places you wouldn't

have been able to go before because

um you don't have as much of a labor

footprint or a safety issue or a whole

bunch of other things that then So, if

it's inhospitable, [clears throat]

if it's regulated, if it's like I don't

want to live there. It's the end of the

earth.

>> Yeah. You can send robots and have

people monitoring them remotely.

Yeah. And

this is like a future that feels like a

little bit like science fiction. Look,

we're here in Austin. You

you got to do the shout out to Tesla and

all the things cuz I like to sort of

break down the physical AI stack.

Includes not just like oh yeah,

computation and I've got to have

physical AI models and I got to all the

things you sort of think of. What about

land development?

That should be in that stack. What about

chemistry? That needs to be in the

stack. Manufacturing needs to be in the

stack. When you look at the stack,

you're like

damn, Tesla's got this.

They are they are the Google of this

era, which is what I mean by that is in

the 2000s, if you were doing a startup

in the 2000s, the first question you

would get

is uh why isn't why isn't Google going

to kill you? Or why isn't Google just

going to do it? Why isn't Google just

going

>> going to know that they killed you. And

before that, Microsoft.

>> And before that was Microsoft, the late

'90s.

Uber had the time, 2010s.

>> Yeah, but if Uber puts that in the app.

>> Come on.

>> [laughter]

>> It's like dude, this is Uber. I'm like

but you know, I think in the physical AI

space that's a that's sort of a Tesla

thing.

But there's so many things to do.

You got to shoot your shot. You got to

do these stuff. And rumors that

hey, you might not be done with

self-driving, something that you were

very early on. How do you think about

what you're seeing in the playing field

of self-driving because

my lord, you know, Waymo's making great

progress. Tesla's making great progress.

>> Like pick a winner between Tesla Tesla,

Waymo, Uber. Or like Uber Uber Uber Uber

Uber Uber seems to be building a network

of stuff. Yeah, I mean the number of

Pick a winner.

>> The number of players in this space is

crazy now, right? Like

>> Yeah, look, there's I think there's more

noise if there's more bark than there is

bite right now.

Um

look, I think Waymo obviously is ahead.

The existence proof is there.

Their issue is manufacturing and scale.

Um and urgency and fierceness. Like

let's

>> Come on.

>> Let's win. Let's go. Yeah. You know,

Uber had an autonomy project

back in the day. So and they have a

different strategy these days. I haven't

been there for a while. So but the but

the point is is that you So you got

Waymo, then you've got Tesla.

Fundamentals.

Science.

Hard mode times 100.

And the question is do they get there in

what time scale?

If if they And like honestly,

everybody's like, "Could happen

tomorrow. Could happen in 5 years."

And I think that it's like when does the

chat GPT moment happen for vision? Is

basically the thing. Let's call it

vision without other sensors. So super

inspiring, but like what's the timeline

on it?

Um those are the base This is basically

the And then there's a lot of other

little guys that don't really have the

stuff, I believe, [snorts] yet.

There's nobody standing out just yet of

of the others. Do you think we're at a

point now like obviously now that you're

getting into

more of these kind of autonomous systems

that move around, like do we have these

vision language action models

tuned and ready for prime time? There's

There's been a conversation like, "Who's

going to have the Android, the operating

system for vision language action, where

I can use my voice, tell it to do

something, and it knows what I'm saying,

and then it identifies the objects and

does the thing in the physical world?"

Do those models exist today, or are they

still work? And is that like a Google

OS, or like where does that OS come

from?

>> Look, I think there's a there This is an

area of a lot of energy, a mix of

research and implementation. I think

there's a lot of hope and interesting

stuff. I mean, the high level is

we all remember what happened when you

use chat GPT 3.5

and you're like

holy

Yeah, it's legit. Whoa, and then it went

to four and you're like

okay, like some stuff just changed. The

world just changed and I can sort of

connect some dots [clears throat] and

getting real.

Is it about to happen?

Is it about to happen for physical AI?

And that's what this [clears throat] is

about.

>> Yeah. And the fun part about it is

machine learning, deep learning, this

kind of thing for many years, decades

was like inscrutable. I don't know what

the thing is thinking. It just spits out

an answer and I know it's correct. Well,

now you can have a conversation with it.

Right? Like imagine if it's driving your

car

and there's different agents and one's

just driving, the other's like, "Yo,

look out over there." Yeah. It's like,

"Oh."

Just like how we roll.

Like somebody does that, you're like

you're like

"Honey, that's like

200 m away. We're going to be okay."

>> Yeah. [laughter]

Jason and I don't call each other honey,

but I got you. Yeah.

Like

sweetie. You know. Yeah.

>> [laughter]

>> Okay. So anyways, so that was odd,

wasn't it? Okay.

>> a little strange.

>> Okay. Okay. I didn't mean it that way.

>> does that. I didn't mean it.

>> Yeah. Yeah, you know, I meant it. Okay.

>> [laughter]

>> Language is a beautiful compression

mechanism

that humans use 100 W

of energy.

Like and you put that in the scheme of

things of like AI training, AI energy,

the power plants that are built to do

the thing that isn't even at human

strength yet.

Okay? The Waymo machine takes 100 times

more energy to drive a Waymo

than a human does to drive a Waymo.

So

so language we there are still things

that humans are great at and that

unbeat like the goat, we're still the

goat at certain things. Language is this

epic compression.

And um we need to find ways to compress

cuz like when you think about how how we

first started looking at the physical

world is we saw everything. And you know

what guys, and this is sort of obvious,

like it doesn't matter what the cloud is

doing if I'm driving.

But like the car doesn't know that. It's

pulling in every freaking data point and

processing everything and it's it's you

know, look, they've been about sort of

carving out the things that don't matter

and things like this, but there's ultra

awesome versions of this and you can

imagine how you can use language or

things that look like language to

communicate either amongst agents or

sort of safety systems with a driving

system to sort of

get very efficient answers and to

identify safety issues very efficiently.

People don't know that you moved to

Texas as of or most people don't know,

but it's it's out there. Yeah. You moved

here in December, so now you're a

resident of Austin.

>> Yeah, I was I'm about

Thank you.

It's very exciting for me. We've been

getting to play some backgammon.

>> Backgammon, cards, It's cards. We're

having a good time. So, I've had a place

on Lake Austin since 2021.

And I go there. I'm an avid water skier,

like

You're impressive at water ski king, I

have to say, like So, I've had a place

in Austin for 5 years.

Freaking love it. It's my weekend I

would go 15 weekends a year.

What do you think's going to happen in

California?

It's pretty messed up. Look, I I grew up

in Cali. Like I grew up in Los Angeles.

My parents were born and bred in Los

Angeles, which basically makes them the

founders of LA, okay?

But um so that I have a lot of heart,

like my whole family, everything, you

know? It's pretty

It's pretty It's I don't want to A lot A

lot of us feel that way.

>> want to get the violin out, but it's

just but It's heartbreaking. The place

It totally It's just the place you grew

up. It's your home, you know?

When you have to leave. Uh

but it's getting weird out there.

And uh

it feels like it's getting weirder.

And at some point that's it's just too

weird. It's too weird. Do you think

everyone's going to leave?

I mean, it started with Elon, and it was

like

>> Yeah, he was in the right.

>> We don't want Elon here, and then he's

like, "Message received."

>> Like, cool. Right. And then it kind of

worked its way down the tech industry,

and then the kind of it, you know, world

of people building businesses and

whatnot. And now it's kind of gotten so

broad in terms of the group of people

>> comedy, music, New Yorkers, restaurant

tours. I mean, this place is much I'm

not even talking about this. I'm just

talking about everyone leaving LA or

sorry, leaving California

is almost like

working down the path of Look, my the

rest of my team's like, "Where When are

we moving?"

You know? They're like

>> And how are you dealing with that? So,

that was the question with like

>> Got to buy a home on the lake. There are

literally dozens of startup CEOs of

call it successful or growing companies

that I talk to who are like

"Dude, I want to leave, but I got

employees here. I got an office here. I

got a facility here. I build stuff here.

How am I going to leave?"

>> yeah, I totally get it. It's a real

thing. So, look, I think like most

things

uh

sort of

when it's time

and it feels painful to do something,

sometimes it's actually not as bad as

you think.

And you just got to make the move and

lead and do it.

Um and so

uh that's kind of what that's kind of

the process that almost like a mourning

process I went through. And that's just

what it is. And you're setting up a team

here? Yeah, of course.

Uh and I got that office

right on the lake. Did you get that? Uh,

it's it's we are negotiating No, it's

all good. No, no, no, it's all good.

We're negotiating right now. Okay. But

I'm going to jet ski to work. No,

literally, we were Is it Is it true

story? Last year we're like driving up

the thing and I was like, "Wow, I wonder

who owns that?" He's like, "I will." And

I was like, "Did you look at it?" He's

like,

"I looked at that."

And I was like, "That's a That would be

a nice one." But the the truth is, you

know, I I and I had a couple people move

here a couple years ago and they all had

the same reaction. "Oh my god, I'm

living in a place that's twice as big

for half as much. The people here are

dope. The food is dope. Everybody here

is got this sense that we're building

the future and it's just fun and we're

all positive and, you know, for me, I

got to live New York, LA, San Francisco.

I I did three of the great cities in

this country. This one feels the most

like home to me, which is a very strange

feeling to me, but it feels like

everybody here wants to build the future

and it's very diverse, you know, like it

it all these different industries and

people pursuing stuff. I I think this is

the future.

>> Yeah, here's the thing. Like you go to

San Francisco and I still have a little

nostalgia when I go to San Francisco,

just

having built Uber there and the whole

thing. Um, I still get the

you know, the butterflies. Just I did,

you know, but it does have something

magical. You you just can't take it

away. And then you look at all of these

bike lanes and these bus lanes that

never have a bus or a bike in them. And

cost $400 million to build 1 mile. And

it's literally it's sort of like this

subconscious

desire to choke the city off. Now,

remember, I look at things through

roads. That's how I think. So, I'm just

like, obviously, the city is totally

busted. Yeah.

No, but they they literally took Market

Street and they're like, "What would be

the optimal way to this up and virtue

signal at the same time. And they're

like, "Yeah,

buses." And it's like, "Nobody's on the

bus. Nobody takes the bus. It's a

beautiful small town. San Francisco's

Austin." That whole street is empty.

It's painted red. Okay, so we Okay, so

we all and complain nonstop on our

group chat. When are you leaving San

Francisco? When are you leaving? I'm

number one, I get it. But Friedberg,

when are you leaving? Okay, well, so

>> chat, you're the best by far. Okay, so

let me just

A couple glasses of wine in.

public-facing Friedberg And he's like,

"You know, I think there's a better way

to do this." And then there's like Darth

Friedberg in group chat. He's like,

"These people, these morons are morons.

They're destroying society." He is like

Darth [cheering] Friedberg in group

chat.

Am I lying?

Am I lying? Is he the most Correct.

Especially after a couple glasses of

wine. When I start drinking, he's like

takes a photo of a cliff. And he takes

pictures. He's like, "Fourth beverage."

And we're like, "Oh, it's worth staying

up on the group chat."

>> [laughter]

>> And then I'm like, "I'll go and attack

this congressman on Twitter." which I

realized Yes, and then you got to delete

the tweet. Yeah. Don't delete the tweet.

>> Yeah, I delete the tweets. Okay, so

>> [laughter]

>> there's a group of people trying to

raise $500 million

to create like a tech/business

coalition to go to Sacramento, which

arguably is something that everyone's

left and avoided doing forever cuz no

one wants to spend time in freaking

Sacramento fighting politicians. But

it's almost like we're all falling off a

cliff, it's time to do something. Do you

think there's a realistic path back? Do

you think the people can actually get

their together? That even if $500

million came in, there's a way to kind

of turn around the state, fix some of

the policies. Do you think it's too

late?

>> think that Look, I would go I Look,

anybody who's doing anything to fix

things, I'm like, "Hell yeah, let's do

something." The issue is we all grew up

in the tech world which was like a

libertarian place where you stay out of

politics and

that kind of It was that kind of vibe.

It was just everybody was like that.

Leave me alone. I want to make stuff.

Yeah, I just I I'm not I don't do that.

And that's obviously

There's not a thing anymore. In

California, I think the the ballot

initiatives are very powerful and

there's very clean ways to get something

on the ballot. Love that. I think that

your DAs who have decided we do not

enforce crime at all anymore,

that's like a sweet spot. Like I believe

that

I sort of have this aphorism. Truth and

justice

are the immune system for society.

>> [snorts]

>> When when the immune system is

suppressed, all the social ills flare

up.

So, look for the places where truth and

justice are being deteriorated, are

being degraded, and say how do we get at

that? Because if you get at that,

everything else downstream will be

better.

So, that's kind of how I look at things

and how I also determine whether the

world's getting better or worse. When I

say weird, I'm talking about truth and

justice.

That's what I mean when I say, "Oh, man,

it's getting weird. It's getting

weirder." Which means it's weird. I'm

just talking about truth and justice.

>> Well, I mean, and you look at the

homeless industrial complex, you look at

Chesa Boudin, which the all in pod,

Sachs, myself in the pod, like we we

literally led the recall of him. And

then you have the same thing going on in

LA where they were just like if somebody

Gascon. Yeah, Gascon. I mean,

we basically lost the script. You're

running the city for the criminals. It

literally is like a Batman movie. It's

like Bane.

I mean, here's here's the

>> to arrest the criminals.

Look, I was born in the darkness. I

mean, these guys are lunatics.

Yeah, look, I I know police officers in

Los Angeles who are no longer police

officers.

And these are lifelong guys who protect

and serve, that's in their blood or DNA.

They want to protect people. They want

the bad guys to be dealt with and they

they almost have PTSD from

what it is like to want to serve and see

bad things happening and not being

allowed to stop it. Yeah, nobody's got

their back and they're not allowed to do

their job. It's it's crazy and I it's

getting weird.

>> Okay, hey, I want to just go back to AI

for

>> Sorry for the darkness.

>> no, I think it's good.

>> I was trying to induce I'm trying to

induce

dark Freeburg.

>> brought it up.

I mean, someone bring me a tequila, I'll

get going. Yeah, let's do it. Can we get

a couple tequilas?

>> was funny. I went on this podcast

yesterday and the guy and I the first

the guy was like the first hour was

middle of the road. I was talking about

tech and science and then like politics

came up. He's like, so socialism. And he

said like you lost it and then you were

like he's like the energy went 10x and

he

Don't take yeah. So that'll come out in

a couple weeks, but I was like it got me

going. Okay, I want to talk about

physical AI one more time. Yeah. So one

of now that now that you're doing this,

I saw a presentation the other day.

Someone showed like a video of a

squirrel jumping from one tree to

another tree and they're like a tenth of

a watt or something. Like like the

biology is tuned and it's so perfect in

terms of its efficiency of energy

utilization to do physical things and

we're taking these like big things of

metal and motors and like actuators and

if you add up or you compound all of the

inefficiencies in the system, it's like

1200 watts to get the robot to walk four

foot. Like

>> Yeah.

Like break apart not just the software,

but the hardware layer and where we at

in evolving things like actuators

and the materials and everything else

that's going to make physical AI work

and scale.

>> a lot with the questions you're asking

are going down humanoid lane, which is

like this thing and and everybody talks

about how do you do the hand? It's

almost like Terminator 2 type obsession

with the hand, which is fair. Like it's

a very critical part of it. I mean, look

at the I like to look at the Achilles

the quote-unquote Achilles tendon of any

of these machines and you're like that's

where the action is. This this is a

couple other places. Um

Look,

I'm in the non-humanoid space. I mean,

but in mechanical engineers have been

dealing with actuators and you know, all

the sort of electromechanical sort of

interactions that make machines do

certain things, but like I'm in the food

machine space. So, I can tell you how to

open a paper bag

and put a

put a a bowl in a paper bag without

tearing the paper bag, but I am less

into the

I I forget the name perio they're

they're the the senses to understand

awareness and touch.

Um

I'm not in that game. Um so, when you're

mining you're like

you're not [snorts and clears throat]

like, you know,

you know,

>> You're not threading a needle. You're

not playing tennis. Um

Certain things may be equivalent to

tennis. So, look, the bottom line is

we're seeing obviously all you have to

do is go online and look at where the

humanoids are going over time and how

much better they're getting. Um it's

wild and it's happening so freaking

fast, but any humanoid demo starts with

dancing and martial arts.

Yeah. And we're sort of down specialized

robot lane, which is gainfully employed

robots.

>> Yeah. So, I know I didn't totally answer

the question on like the technology

piece, but I just like do you agree that

there's probably like a big opportunity

for venture money and like research to

go into material science actually yeah.

>> For sure. Because if the physical AI

stack manipulation and all of the

related things around it

is massive And so if you get the

software working it's almost like the

hardware has to catch up. Yes. We got a

lot of

investment to be

>> I do. Well actually

it's good that you bring this up. You

know one of the things you pioneered

at Uber was

capital as a weapon and you were very

thoughtful about hey if we can take this

capital off the table then that's going

to let's call it what it is it's going

to be an advantage versus the

competitors and these other competitors

couldn't get that capital. That's now I

think people have seen that playbook and

they're like

someone was like that was smart let me

try.

And it's at a different scale. Now that

you've come out of stealth Yeah. Now

that you've got and and people are

starting to understand Yeah. starting

today Yeah. how big your vision is

capital as a weapon Yeah. This is I

guess in your plan yeah? Well I mean

here's the thing right so capital as a

strategic weapon for its own sake is not

a thing

when it is actually a strategic weapon

then it is a thing and what I mean by

that is like

in the Uber world early days if you

didn't have capital didn't matter how

good your app was because Masa's going

to put a billion dollars in your

competitor and you're going to lose 20%

market share tomorrow. So a critical

competency in fact your world class

competencies one of them has to be

raising capital and you need to do it

better than everybody else and if you

don't you are going to lose. Let me ask

one follow up to that. Sorry you go

ahead. Yeah. Um but the Middle East

Yeah. I've heard theories the last

couple days that big capital seekers are

kind of right now because of what's

going on in the Middle East with the

Iran war

Dubai Qatar

Saudis are kind of going to close up the

capital flowing to the US right now and

is that real? I mean do you think that's

a real threat?

>> So look our Middle East business was

supposed to go public in January

and the Saudi market was went down 20%

over like a 2-month period and that was

like a massive damper on the situation.

Now, part of it's part of that was

because the oil prices had gone down so

dramatically.

And if you went into KSA, you went to

the kingdom, everybody's like, "We need

We need oil prices to go up."

You know, that's the other side of the

equation. So, I don't know what happened

like I don't I'm not in the market

raising money right at this moment and

this is a 2-week old thing that I, you

know, look, I see the news just like

everybody else and I'm not out there

calling while the war is going on and

saying, "Hey guys, you got some money?"

Um

so, I don't know exactly what's going to

happen, but if you are an optimist and

you're like, "Okay, this isn't This is

not going on forever." just like the

tariffs

it was the end of the world and then it

wasn't very quickly. If you're an

optimist about this situation and it

won't be the end of the world

maybe even a better world then we get to

a better place and I think

progress, abundance, the golden age

happens and a lot of it is about all the

things that are happening in AI, in

physical AI and and and just the

productivity gains that are coming in

very massive ways. Yeah, I don't know it

it was shock shock and awe and then

hey, now we've got a steady state and

let's hope that's what happens in Iran

is that we can depose these evil

dictators and replace it with something

a little more stable. And related to

this before we wrap, they're going to

China, there's big trade deal being

negotiated. What do you hope comes out

of this Chinese thing? And what did you

learn in China? Yeah, what would you

learn and and what do you think would be

great for America like what would you

like to see and be like, "Man, that's

going to set us all up. No more Look,

here's the thing, if you go to China

right now and you go and just take a

tour of the manufacturing that's going

on there just the manufacturing base

The cities, especially if you've gone to

China for a couple decades in a row.

You're like, damn. Yeah. You so, let's

just do two things. You go to Shenzhen,

which before felt like Kansas City, but

50 years ago and really humid, which I

guess Kansas City sometimes. But,

you go there now and it's like

one-upping Singapore.

Right?

Or so that's the city view. You're just

experiencing a very awesome, you're

like,

this is advanced.

And you just get the vibe and it's

everywhere. And then you go and you

start seeing the manufacturing base and

you see what like Xiaomi is doing or any

of the other there's so many scrappy

guys, badass guys everywhere and you're

like,

F. They're hungry. So, does anybody

remember the 2008 Olympics in Beijing?

Anybody? Does anybody this is a little

bit we're down rabbit hole. Does anybody

remember the opening ceremony?

And you're like, these mother

are taking over. At least that's what

they want to do.

That shit's happening.

So,

I don't have any issue or this is not

negativity for me. I'm like, these guys

are killing it. The best idea is

winning. They're fiercely they're

fiercely going after truth and progress

and they're making happen. Let's

step up our game, okay? But we can also

have a friendly game. Like we don't have

to like be like the Detroit Pistons in

the '90s, you know?

>> Yes. We can we there there's a way

>> the stands. Yeah. Yeah, you know.

There's a way to do this right and

there's a way to do it like adults. I

hope that's where we would end up.

Um I have a employee who cuz we we were

we for for a long time were the largest

built kitchen builders in China. I I an

employee in China has an American wife.

Okay?

They both live in China.

They're both from China originally,

okay?

But

one of one of them to It would be great

for him to work here on some things I'm

doing. It's very hard to make that

happen right now. Now, that's selfish

like I like maybe selfish like I'm like

there's a person I've been working with

for over a decade. I'd love to continue

here. Maybe there's other bigger picture

items that I'm not dealing with. I'm not

the geopolitical guy, but I'd love for

there to be sort of

good

relations and good like like if you have

a significant other in who is an

American citizen, like do we have to

make that hard? Is an example.

>> Some normalcy would Something, you know,

I'm just saying. Now, I agree like

there are ways to do immigration

properly. Like we effed it up super bad.

Don't even get me started, but there's

also there's good migration too. Like a

lot of great innovators

all over the place came from other

places for their own version of the

American dream. God bless. Free bird.

And we don't have to

that doesn't have to be a negative

thing.

And so I'd like to see more of that and

um

yeah, China's China's wild. So let's

let's keep our eye on the ball and let's

let's give them a run for their money,

too.

>> it up for TK.

>> [applause]

>> All right. Well done, brother. Thanks,

brother.

That's good.

Good to see you, brother.

Wow. Michael Dell.

>> [applause]

>> My lord. Texas native.

Michael

>> born in Houston.

>> Well, I missed the the opening. We we

jumped to the music, but you started

Dell computer here

in Austin with a thousand bucks. 42

years ago in my dorm room at uh Doby at

UT.

Uh about a 10 days before I finished my

freshman semester.

Moving.

And it's been

working out pretty good.

>> [laughter]

>> Yeah, there's been some bumps in the

road, but yeah, it's generally generally

worked out okay. You know, we'll have

about 140

billion in revenue this year, so

Yeah, it's okay.

>> Hey, it compounds over time, doesn't it?

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you start

small and just keep adding and

there you go. That's how it goes. It's

just that easy.

>> [laughter]

>> But [gasps] why Texas? Like I think this

is an important thing. We're in Austin.

Jason lives here. David Sacks lives here

now.

More people are moving from California

to Austin. Why Austin? Why Texas? Why is

it work here? And is it getting better?

Or has it just always worked?

You know, I think Texas has had a

uh, you know, low-tax,

pro-growth

uh, environment for a long time and pro,

you know, sort of progressive business

climate. And you know, if if you sort of

look at the the growth of

the Texas economy relative to the rest

of the United States without Texas,

you know, Texas just kind of looks like

a better version of the US economy.

>> [snorts]

>> And uh, you know, you now you've got

uh, Austin is sort of just about in the

top 10 cities in in the United States.

So, you've got

uh,

when that happens, you'll have four of

the 10 largest cities in America in

Texas.

One out of 10 children born in the

United States born in Texas.

Uh, more New York Stock Exchange

companies in Texas than

in New York or anywhere else.

And uh,

you know, you've got University of Texas

here in Austin, which I would always

think of as kind of the wellspring for a

lot of the companies that are here,

certainly ours.

And

you know, long history of of uh

innovative, pioneering spirit, and

entrepreneurship. And

it's been a fantastic place for us. And

part of this, I think Freeberg and

Michael, is what's happened in the other

great cities, or what were once great

cities. My hometown, New York, got to

spend 10 years in LA and in the last 12

in

the Bay Area. And what's happening there

is incredibly un-American,

uh and they're decelerating when

compared I think maybe the gap maybe in

the disparity from these

um two locations has gotten greater,

yeah? And you're seeing a lot more

people say

life there, here in Austin, seems a lot

better than the life I'm living in New

York, LA,

or in in the Bay Area. Yeah, well, I've

got a lot of new friends and neighbors,

you know, that that have that have that

have come. And certainly, I mean, if if

you look at the the the migration

statistics, Texas has attracted an

enormous number of people. And and look,

I mean, when you when you when you look

at the environment here and compare it

to the other kind of situations that are

going on,

uh it's it's it's very attractive. But,

you know, it's it's kind of been great

for a long time. So,

uh

it's not really new news to us that have

been here a while.

Yeah, Elon had a great experience when

he was building the the Gigafactory over

here. They let you do stuff here. Yeah,

basically, you know. They let him build

it.

Which he said it was like an incredible

experience for him, because in

California, they didn't let him build

you know, these factories. He In fact,

the Tesla factory that in Fremont was

just an old ancient factory that he was

able to retrofit. So,

uh there's something going on here as

well with the data centers. And then

that's actually I think very close to

what you're working on at Dell. Maybe

you could talk a little bit about the

data center boom that's going on in

Texas that maybe people aren't paying

attention to. Sure. Well, there's, you

know, obviously been enormous build-out

of AI infrastructure and that requires,

you know, lots of new data centers, lots

of power. Texas,

you know,

has an enormous uh advantage there

relative to other states. A lot of

power, a lot of land, and it's and and

you can build stuff, right? So, there's

there's been a massive build-out

particularly in some of the cities in

and towns in West Texas where there's

not a lot of population. And so, they're

not really too opposed to having data

centers

out in the middle of nowhere where

there's land and power. And so,

um

Yeah, I mean, the the

the demand for tokens is enormous.

You know, we've been building these AI

data centers not just here in Texas, but

around the world. And, you know, the

growth in that has been tremendous.

You know, we we introduced the the first

H100 server It was literally a couple

weeks before Chat GPT was announced.

>> [snorts]

>> And, you know,

uh the progression of our business in

that area sort of

gone from like 2 billion to 10 billion

to 25 billion to this year it'll be like

50 billion. So, so tremendous growth.

And

when you when you think about what these

models are creating,

there's this face change that's happened

in computing, right? We we we had 60

years of calculating and computing. Now

we have machines that are thinking and

helping us think. And so, the demand for

that kind of intelligence and you know,

the models are amazing, but they're also

the worst they'll ever be and they're

continuing to improve. And so

we just see

uh

a lot more

demand than supply and it's happening

not just in

the hyperscalers and the cloud service

providers, it's happening in 4,000

enterprises where we building these

these Dell AI factories.

It's happening in sovereign AI, you

know, like Palantir and you know, people

want to protect their data, but also use

AI on it. They want to bring the AI to

where their data is.

And you know, when this kind of started

a few years ago, we had some

really sophisticated

uh large companies, think think of like

Fortune 100 and they started, you know,

buying these AI servers from us and

and uh they kind of knew what they were

doing, right? You know, and and uh we

said, "Well, what what are you doing?"

All right. Yeah. And

>> [clears throat]

>> they they were they were kind of taking

uh building their own models. They were

taking open source models. They were

running them. Some of them were were

algorithmic traders or, you know,

derivatives of machine learning.

And of course um

they needed a lot of help in in doing

that cuz

it it it was sort of a complicated

thing. So, about 2 years ago we we put

together this

product that we we we we we called the

Dell AI factory. And now we've got 4,000

plus of these and it's kind of running

rampant across enterprises. How do you

think about

the payback time on the investment

that's being made? The administration

put in place this accelerated

depreciation rule or by the company

>> very helpful actually. Yeah.

>> So, just for folks to understand that a

little bit, like if you spend a hundred

billion dollars this year building and

data centers and buying infrastructure

for those data centers, you get to write

off a hundred percent of that this year.

Correct.

>> it, so you don't pay taxes. You pay way

much fewer taxes.

>> in place for 10 years, I think.

>> That's a 10-year deal, so it's

accelerating the investment. How much is

that helping

versus

how are you seeing folks rationalize the

investment relative to the return

they're going to make and over what time

scale? This is still the big question.

Is the money really there? The

hyperscalers, maybe they're starting to

come up, but end usage, end states,

are we kind of, hey, wait and see, we

don't know yet, or folks are getting 20%

ROIC starting in year one after they've

made the investment? You know, I I I can

tell you in in our business in in our

company, we definitely see plenty of use

cases where the ROI or the improvement

in productivity efficiency is

20% or or greater. The right away gets

there. Yeah, I mean, it it's you know,

it's not like you just hit a button and

you get 20%, right? There There's

There's work required in thinking

through the processes. And you know,

it's worth a little bit describing that.

So, you know, when you have a a

any company,

its processes and tools and technology

are a function of what was available at

the time it created those things.

And so, what you sort of have to do is

step back and say, all right, what's the

trajectory of the improvement of the

tools?

What outcome are we trying to create?

And now let's simplify and standardize

the processes,

get all the tools together, get all the

data together, and then apply the

technology.

And this really has to be done in kind

of a tops-down way.

Uh you can't sort of do it spontane- in

you know, in in

silos are not going to spontaneously

improve themselves and often that means

that you're completely changing

the way the organization works. It's

like a wholesale re-architecture.

It's a it's a re-imagining of the way a

company works and you know, I mean the

way I described this to our team

about 3 years ago is

you know, we were going to have a new

competitor 5 years from now that would

be 2 years from now, you know, that was

in every business that we're in except

they were going to be faster and more

innovative and more successful and lower

cost and they were going to put us out

of business.

And the only way we were going to

prevent that is is we're going to become

that company and here's how we're going

to do it and

you know, it

excited some people, it scared some

people and but I actually believe that

that's

what's going to happen and and so we've

been

dramatically changing our business. I

would say the biggest benefit by far is

speed. We're much faster at being able

to apply innovations and so, you know,

you look at our at our infrastructure

business last quarter grew 73%. Well,

that's

kind of unusual for a business of this

size.

And

you know, this quarter we guided that it

would grow even faster like 100% so.

You've lived through a couple of

paradigm shifts here. The PC revolution

obviously you led that and then you of

course had you know, client server, the

network revolution, online,

internet, mobile.

>> mobile.

>> Yeah. So, each one of those we saw

massive disruption. We're talking in in

the green room about hey, we used to

have a typing pool, there was a mail

room. All these things got abstracted

away by the PC and networked PC

revolution.

But it took a decade or two.

And this one's happening a lot faster,

yeah?

>> Yeah, this one I think it's it's like um

you know, a quarter is like a year.

Maybe maybe it's five times faster or

something like that. But but back to

your question, I I I would say maybe 10

or 15% of large companies have really

figured this out and the rest of them

are kind of fumbling around and you

know, there's a tendency when when you

hear about a new technology to like oh,

let's just let's just go do it, you

know, and show the boss, hey, we did AI,

you know. Yeah, the board said we got to

do AI. We got to do AI, guys.

>> We need AI. Are you Are you proud of me,

boss? You know? Yeah. Um

and Look at what I made.

Exactly. And I also think, you know, is

an important point about about uh this

which is

you know, the barrier to technology

adoption

is is not technology.

It's culture and leadership and courage,

right? And and so Willingness to change

and to adapt yourself.

>> and you know, if you if you're in a

business that you don't think it's

changing very much or you know, heart

change is really hard, right? And

you you have to it can be very

uncomfortable. You're like, well, we're

going to stop doing that. Well, maybe we

don't need this anymore. Particularly if

your bonus is dependent on not messing

things up.

But

let's go let's use the internet as an

analogy which you saw

up close. There were

businesses that were internet transition

successful. They made the transition.

Maybe Macy's dot com versus Sears

Roebuck, right?

Maybe Macy's did a better job of taking

advantage of the internet than Sears.

But then there was internet native

businesses that seemed to blow them all

out.

And uh maybe Amazon's a good example or

um CSN stores, whatever they be Wayfair,

etc.

What's the right way to think about this

evolution in industries generally? Are

we going to have

there businesses that are going to

transition successfully and those that

aren't and they're going to die. And is

this really going to Are we going to see

AI-native businesses in every industry

come in and just disrupt everything? I

believe we will and certainly, you know,

when you talk to the Collison brothers

at Stripe, they'll tell you that the

rate of growth of the 2025 cohort

companies is about four times faster

than the 2018 companies. And so,

every year the new batch of companies

are growing faster and faster because

they're starting with all these new

tools that, you know, Well, because they

see all the new companies on their

platform. Exactly. And so, when when you

think about

an incumbent company, okay, that already

exists, it has, let's say it's got

brands, it's got balance sheets, it's

got, you know, customer relationships,

whatever stuff, right? Okay?

Um but that's sort of like those are

expiring value assets. If it doesn't

change quickly and get on the other side

of this, I think it will go out of

business. And which is exactly the

speech I gave to our team, you know,

three three years ago. And

Uh

I think,

you know,

you you you you you have to be

uh bold and you got to go make those

changes to to

not only survive this but but to but to

thrive and and, you know, I think about

it is how do we prepare our company to

be ready for the 2030s?

>> Right, isn't it like it's much more

it's kind of the storyline. There's more

to do than there ever was. It's like

when the internet arrived kind of came

around, Sears doesn't just need to sell

locally, they can sell to the world.

Well, sure. I mean,

this is the point.

>> AI lets everyone do everything.

>> When when when we have better tools, we

can do way more things, right? And and

you know, when it when you know, when I

hear people say, oh, you know,

um maybe we're just going to have all

these great tools and we we won't do

more things. We'll just do the same

things with fewer people.

It doesn't sound right to me. I I mean,

there'll be some of that, but I think

most of it will be we're just going to

do a whole lot more things. We're going

to solve a lot more problems. We're

going to accelerate scientific

discovery.

We're we're going to invent all sorts of

new things. We're going to solve all

sorts of problems that haven't been

solved.

And, you know, that's that's super

exciting. What do we have wrong on

infrastructure? So,

the original build cycle looked a lot

like everything's in a data center.

Everything's got to sit there. That's

where all the intelligence, it'll all be

in these kind of hosted proprietary

cloud models. Do you think that it's

open source? Is it distributed on the

edge? Where does the intelligence, where

does the inference sit? And how does

that really change or kind of

re-architect the industry, do you think?

It's really all the above. I mean, it

it's not like there's one answer. I

mean, certainly if you go to

uh

any industrial company or natural

resources company, advanced

manufacturing,

retail, logistics, there's tons of

inference at the edge.

And that's growing very, very fast and

uh you know, we make a lot of that

embedded equipment. Certainly, you know,

telcos are doing that too. I mean, it's

pretty much every every industry. Think

about wherever data is being created,

you want the AI infrastructure and the

inference, you know, close to the data.

Um

you know, there there there has been

this sort of rebalancing as companies

have figured out, you know, sort of

everybody loves the public cloud, right?

Until they get the bill, right? When

they they get the bill, they're like,

wait, this is supposed to save us money,

but

cost quite a bit more. So, you know, the

the the lowest cost token is going to be

the one that's generated right where the

data is, on the device. You're going to

have, you know, tokens being generated

on your phone, on your PC,

in every embedded piece of equipment.

And And look, we have an interesting

perspective on this business cuz we have

10,000 customers where they embed our

product in their product. This is, you

know, think medical devices, security,

all sorts of things in hospitals and

industrial plants and, you know, any any

kind of

uh

you know,

uh

data-driven activity, right, requires

some kind of computing network storage

infrastructure. Yeah. So, when you um

look at the desktop where you started,

it's coming full circle and this must be

at least very interesting or intriguing

to you that you see this open claw

movement, everybody trying to buy the

most powerful desktop they can, and all

these hobbyists who were your customers

who were calling you up and ordering

from, you know, Dell, their their

bespoke PC.

Now they're Dell.com.

>> Dell.com.

What did I say? Dell.com. Yeah. You said

ordering from Dell. Calling us up. They

They They order online usually.

>> They order online now, yes. They have

this thing called the internet, Jason.

>> yes. It works out pretty well. Um

But this is incredible that they're like

all stacking computers and and running,

you know, uh local models.

I was just thinking back to how much the

first couple of computers I owned cost,

$4,000 in 1980.

And then the prices came down, you could

buy a Dell for 500 bucks, 800 bucks,

like really nice laptops for that price.

Um

use the promo code all in.

Um

This is not a sponsor, it's a joke. Um

But do you think there's a world where

we're going to start to see

the desktop, because people want to

protect that data, they want to protect

the skills they're building, they don't

want to give it to Sam Altman, and it in

a cloud somewhere. They don't want to

give it to Google, whoever it happens to

be.

Um and that the desktop revolution comes

back, and everybody's got a $10,000

desktop. Is that coming?

I don't know if everyone will have a

$10,000 desktop, but that would be

great. I mean, you know, uh

Um you know, so we have this

tel- uh portal on Hugging Face. And we

have all these open models, and we

qualified them on every kind of machine

we have. And you know, there's been

enormous progress in the open source

models. You know, Google has these Gemma

models, g e m m a, and they work really,

really well on small machines. You know,

Open AI has their open source models.

You've got the Nvidia NeMoTron models.

You've got, you know, enormous

uh ecosystem of open source that is,

you know, thriving, and certainly Open

Claw, and you know, there'll be some

good discussion about that. How many

people have set up Open Claw? Raise your

hand.

Oh my lord, that's about what, 20% of

the audience here? Yeah, so you know,

autonomous agents,

um big deal, and certainly inside

companies,

there's going to be a lot more

autonomous agents.

There are significant security

requirements that need to go with that.

We need to We need to be able to

authenticate and validate who these

agents are, and what they're doing, and

you know, have the right controls and

and and that sort of thing. Yeah. And uh

your take on uh AGI, and

when we're going to hit it. Do you

actually think about superintelligence

and AGI and the

the the two sets of problems they could

solve there. And do you have a personal

definition that you like to use for

those when you're talking internally

with your team of how things are moving?

I I I don't really know, Jason. Uh

um you know, I I think if it feels like

with the latest releases, we were

talking about this backstage,

you know, the Gemini 3.1,

the Opus 4.6, the OpenAI 5.4, it feels

like we've sort of

hit some kind of threshold where the

just the quality of the the models are

are just tremendous. And

when I listen to what our teams are able

to accomplish in a day or two weeks that

would have taken them, you know, a few

months or 9 months time,

you know, it's it's just amazing the

speed of innovation. Yeah. And so

it it seems to be continuing

and we get all the reinforcement

learning and there's also tons of

private dark data

that these models haven't been applied

to. And that's sort of what's happening

with these I think the auto research is

the that's the the key with auto

research, the capacity to take a

standard model and then retrain it on

your private data and keep it private

and build an advantage for your

organization based on the history of

your data that no one else has. That

seems to be what a lot of folks are

thinking about that have

the capacity. But if you were to start a

company today that was not in computing

and you were to build a business from

the ground up, how would you architect

your people and your organizational

principles

as

an AI kind of first knowing what you

know about computing and where things

are headed? Are you hiring people? Are

you hiring a bunch of people to run a

bunch of agents? How do you think about

architecting a new business today? It's

a great question. I don't really spend a

lot of time thinking about that. You

know, I'm thinking about how do how do I

What the rest of us are thinking about.

How do I run our company? I mean, that's

that's hard enough. So

Yeah. Everyone I talk to, that's the

question. They're like everyone goes to

these offsites and they're like

I'm actually doing this with my

management team on Monday. We're doing

like a teardown and be like, "Hey, how

would we build the business differently

today?" Yeah, I mean

what we've been thinking a lot about is

the sort of this this reimagining

question.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, sort of all right.

We know the trajectory of the tools.

What are the tools going to be in 27,

28, 29? And how do we

accelerate, you know, our path to that?

How worried are you about

social issues? So, AI recently ranked as

the most unfavorable term of a list of

terms including president

>> saw that.

>> somewhere between ISIS, the Democrats

>> Ice ISIS and the Democrats.

>> Ice was better than AI.

People liked Ice, masked agents more

than they liked AI.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I think I think part of the

problem is it's been it's been uh

you know maybe sold as

as you know, it it sort of presents

itself like a human would. Yeah. Right?

And you know, maybe if we called it

linear algebra matrix calculations

>> instead. [laughter]

>> Right. Matrix multiplier

>> that would be more friendly. I don't

know, you know. Yeah. But do you think

do you think we're going to have

>> No, I I think you're right. The

positioning is wrong and then we're not

communicating to people, "Hey, this

could help healthcare. This could make

you live longer. This could help your

kids get educated more. That this could

help with housing costs. This could help

with food costs."

>> messaging aside, I mean how much do you

actually worry about disruption or

dislocation and employment about

acceleration of earnings for some people

and deceleration for other people in

society that feel left behind? And that

starts to fuel more of the kind of

social concerns and politicians saying,

"Hey, we got to stop building all the

data centers." You know, like that kind

of stuff. And and how much are you

really

>> tend to be, you know, more optimistic

and and um

you know, I I do I do think that in all

technology cycles you get sort of these

network effects.

And

uh that's kind of inevitable. But I also

think, you know,

uh

we're going to do more with the tools.

You do have this acceleration of all

sorts of uh great things. I mean,

education can dramatically improve,

scientific discovery, health care,

energy, you know, all sort of the the

unsolved problems can can be

accelerated. Ultimately, I think it's

it's amplification of human potential

and capability.

>> And Extending the frontier, too. And And

And And by the way, we should also

remember that basically what we're

talking about here, beyond sort of some

of the advanced semiconductors in the

you know, big data centers, we're

talking about software. Right?

Yeah. Right? It's like software that

runs on your computer.

>> [snorts]

>> So,

you know, somebody says, "Well, we don't

we don't want that." It's like, how do

you stop total software? I mean,

>> [laughter]

>> Yeah, I know. It's How are you going to

not Are you going to stop someone

putting an open-source model on their

computer at home and asking it for

medical advice? You know, in New York

just passed a law saying AI models can

no longer give medical advice.

>> Yeah. Right? It's being proposed.

>> Yes. It's being proposed. Yes. You can't

give legal and health advice. We're

anti-software. It's like Yeah, well,

we're also anti- my books and advice.

So, if you were going to look it up in a

book, but were you dropping into your

Bernie Sanders right there?

>> That was my Bernie Sanders.

Michael Dowell Do Do you have a the 1%

of the 1% that you're enabling with your

data centers.

Why are you doing this to the people of

our great nation, while you give your

money to children in the Invest America

accounts? Yeah. This is a good one

you're doing. Yeah. Can we talk about

Invest America?

>> I think

>> might have even criticized that, but but

you know Well, that's [laughter] the

problem. The billionaires are giving our

children money and they're not asking us

permission and then those kids are going

to buy things that their parents never

asked for.

Well, they they don't they don't

actually get the money till they're 18

years old. So, that's that's

But what gives you the right to give our

children an education? What is this

philanthropy? It makes no sense.

No, I mean honestly

>> Well, I see I see my great friend Brad

Gershner here. Brad's here?

There he is. Brad, come up for this

little segment here. Sit sit for a

second. Let's talk about Invest America.

We got 5 minutes left here. So, you

know, I heard about

>> Everybody in the fifth best, give him a

round.

I didn't know he was going to be here.

Here you go.

>> [applause]

>> All right.

I I

>> How did this go down, Michael? How I I

heard about this idea

in 2021 from Brad.

And I thought, you know, that's a that's

just a great idea. That's an awesome

idea.

And you know, I think there were some

discussions with the prior

administration,

but they didn't uh do do anything about

that,

unfortunately.

>> [snorts]

>> And uh you know, here we are, you know,

a miracle. You know,

uh the the the Invest America Act was

was passed and

um you know, now we have thousands of

companies that are joining in and

matching the government's contribution.

And uh you know, Susan and I made a big

announcement uh giving $250 to 25

million children in

uh zip codes where the median income is

>> [applause]

>> I mean, Michael, let's just let's talk

for a second here.

This is

one of the greatest

>> What do you think, Bernie? Do you

approve?

>> [laughter]

>> I'm going to Jake out of this place.

I just want to pause on this because it

is one of the greatest philanthropic

gifts in the history of humanity. And I

I

people have just kind of glossed over to

it cuz there's a lot of big numbers in

the world, but we're talking about you

you personally, you and Susan, sat down

and said, "We're going to give a

number." And that number was 5 6 7

billion dollars? Or this is

Well, it's it's $250

to 25 million children ages 2 to 10 in

zip codes where the median income is

$150,000 or less. It's It's $6.25

billion. I mean,

>> [applause]

>> I'm a And I just want to say something.

You know, we live at a time

where

But, they have to sign up to claim the

accounts.

>> Yes.

>> They They have accounts, but they have

to sign up to claim the accounts. You

know, I think we're getting 100,000 plus

kids now a day signing up.

>> Yeah. First, thanks for having me up. I

mean, what what a national hero and

national asset that my friend Michael

Dell is, but he understates this

because I've been working on this for 4

years.

We've been talking about it on the

All-In pod. We had a lot of momentum,

but behind the scenes Trump gets

elected.

Um

and so it's April that we're in the

middle of the tariff strife, April 25.

We realize there's only going to be one

piece of legislation that gets passed

during Trump's first 2 years. It'll be

the you know, this big beautiful bill,

the reconciliation bill.

And so I I call up Michael and I said,

"Michael, we got to go. We've got 5

days.

We have the It It's drafted in the

Senate. We have bipartisan support, but

we have a window. And like we have I

have to get in the Oval Office. We have

to get in the Oval Office."

And you know, Michael said,

you know, "What What should the text

say?"

And you and I had a conversation and you

you know,

uh But You know, the text to DJT. Yes.

I'm not talking out of school. Listen,

Biden

what wherever you sit on the political

divide, I will say I've said this, Trump

seeks out

ideas from business leaders. And he has

deep respect for business leaders like

Michael Dell. And like wherever your

politics are, that's just the truth. And

the last administration didn't. And you

know, If it was Hillary Clinton, she may

have done the same thing.

>> this and I just have to say this Invest

America, it's not a red idea or a blue