Yeah, I would say a few things. So,

one of the risks of

personal development or let's just call

it more broadly self-help is that it can

very easily become self-infatuation or

self-obsession.

And the

counterbalance to that, the bet that

offsets it is

dun. It's very simple. relationships

really doubling down, tripling down on

relationships. We are evolved to be a

social species and whenever you are in

isolation physically or simply in

thought loops in your own head, that

tends to catalyze or

worsen tremendously any type of

instability or OCD or depression or

anxiety or fill-in- thelank psychiatric

condition. So

my

policies that which were already in

place last time we spoke that I have

really

continued to invest into are doing a

past year review every year looking at

my top relationships that are nourishing

energizing energy in as opposed to

energy out and then blocking out time in

advance for the entire year for extended

periods of time with those people. Now,

extended will depend on your

circumstances. For me, that could be

anywhere from a long weekend to a week

spending, say, 5 days in the wilderness

in Montana with some of my oldest,

closest friends, etc., etc.

And that will do. Not to denigrate

therapy in any way, but sometimes

talking more about your problems if it

were to solve all of your problems would

have worked already. And there's a place

for talk therapy. There's a place for

talk therapy, but it is not, nor does it

need to be the only tool in the toolkit.

So simply spending time around your

silly, dumb, amazing friends and

laughing whether it's around a bottle of

wine or a meal or a campfire really

really goes a long way. So that's one

piece of it.

>> I'm curious like you mentioned that in

recent years you've at the top of every

year you kind of make a plan to see the

people who to use the cliche fill your

cup. Um, had you gone through a period

like I like I did where there was a a

certain amount of isolation or um in in

attention to this to this lever.

>> Oh, for sure. And I think

there were a few different reasons for

that. Uh, I don't know if hindsight's

2020, but I think it's easier to see

from my vantage point now that

and it's a balancing act because there's

there's compulsive socializing because

you are

incredibly uncomfortable or afraid of

being alone or with yourself,

>> right? There's compulsive socializing to

distract yourself, like protect yourself

from yourself, which is problematic.

And then there's compulsive isolation.

And I would say I probably leaned far

more towards the compulsive isolation.

And there were two reasons for that. One

was workcoholism back in the day for

sure. and I just

felt like I was more effective, able to

produce, more, able to focus on

business, finances, whatever it might be

in isolation. And there might be some

truth to that.

Then I would say there was also this

belief

that I think at the time was really

implicit. I don't think I explicitly

grasped it, which was, and I've I've

written this incredibly long essay that

maybe I'll publish at some point, but

talking about some of the dangers of

self-help, and one of them is the

following, which ties into what we're

talking about and leaning towards

isolation.

this implicit belief or explicit that

you need to work on yourself and fix

yourself and quote unquote do the work

and then you'll be ready to interact

with other people and have a significant

relationship and engage with your family

if that is an option or you want it to

be an option etc etc. So in effect, the

the analogy that I've drawn for some

friends is

you want to play soccer, but first

you're going to read all the textbooks

and get a master's degree and PhD in

soccer. And then you're going to

practice dribbling and penalty shots and

so on by yourself.

And and you want to become as perfect a

player as possible by yourself before

you ever actually get on the field and

play the game of soccer. and you can

start to believe that you're playing

soccer by yourself. There's always more

room for improvement. You're never going

to be perfect. And if you get caught in

that trap, which is the partial trap of

self-help, you're always polishing this

self.

And it can become this real recursive

dangerous trap, this fixation on the

self.

And you never actually [ __ ] play

soccer.

And at a point you start to believe that

you are but you're not. You're

simulating by yourself life but not

actually engaging with life. And

I have

who knows maybe this is a function of

getting older. I don't think so

necessarily but for so many decades I

was interested in the cutting edge the

cutting edge of everything. and I still

am, but I've become interested equally

in things that have lasted millennia

or more than millennia.