It is 3 minutes after 10 and you are

listening to James O'Brien on LBC where

I promise fun and frolics are ahead

before before home time today. A few of

you have correctly calculated that we

are indeed upon the brink of the return

of a special radio feature wherein Henry

Riley reads an erotic novel written by a

reform member. And you're going to

really struggle to believe which reform

member it is that turns out to have put

pen to quai pornographic paper. Stay

tuned. And who can't stay tuned for that

quite frankly. I mean there are hooks

and teases and there are hooks and

teases. Am I right? Um but before that I

mean a really strange subject in a sense

because I'm obviously not a a war

correspondent. God forbid. I'm far too

fearful and squeamish um and fond of my

own bed. But I have over the years

covered military engagements. I've

shared I've had conversations with you

about various military engagements of of

um varying degrees of of seriousness and

indeed length and and we've spoken to

military veterans. We've spoken to

experts. You you have always been able,

I think, to get a handle on what is

going on, haven't you? you you've always

been able to real obviously not in Gaza

because no journalists were allowed in,

but in the in the sort of sense of the

the bigger international picture, you've

always been able to get an idea of what

was going on. And I think more

diplomatically

than militarily. You've you've known

what the aims were. Whether they were

achievable or not is in many ways moot.

You've known what the aims were. You've

known what the endgame would probably

involve. And when it is reported that X

has happened uh and that report has its

roots in the White House, then you would

be minded to think that it's probably

true. Don't attack me for being naive. I

am aware that presidents have lied um

and continue to do so. But generally

speaking, my faith in the fourth estate,

which is a fancy pants way of saying the

media, the British media, my faith in

the fourth estate is rarely higher than

when it comes to foreign affairs.

Um, with a few obvious and glaring

exceptions.

And I noticed on the way home yesterday

that a thing I thought was funny wasn't

very funny at all.

I have been doing this joke and I think

it's quite a good joke about it's Monday

so it must be a ceasefire. It's Tuesday

so it must be a threat to bomb Iran back

to the stone age. It's Wednesday so it

must be that the victory is complete and

the war is over. It's Thursday and it

must be that Iran needs to stop

attacking despite having an obliterated

army. Iran needs to stop attacking us

otherwise we will do such things. What

they are I know not but they shall be

the terror of the earth. And now it's

Friday and as you just heard in

Dominic's news bulletin, the US and Iran

are very close to a deal, but not there

yet. Except it's not a deal. It's a memo

of understanding. And it's impossible to

say when or if the two sides would

finalize uh any sort of arrangement

which they would probably call a deal or

at least the White House would, but

would be technically a memo of

understanding and is almost certain to

return to a status quo that would be

inferior from a Western point of view to

the situation that was in place before

Benjamin Netanyahu and Donald Trump

attacked unprovoked Iran. And it will be

almost certainly inferior to the deal

that was signed by um Barack Obama or

signed when Barack Obama was president

of the United States of America, which

Donald Trump elected to explode the

minute that it became um the minute that

he became president.

And I I like these conversations. We've

been lucky enough over the years to

speak to some very clever people and um

very well-informed people, much better

informed than I am. And I don't say that

through any sort of sense of false

modesty. It's one of the things I love

most about my job. Sometimes we wade

into territory about which I I'm I'm not

ignorant, but I don't know anywhere near

as much as you may do. And we get

extraordinary calls um from all sorts of

people whether they're former members of

the American the US diplomatic corps or

whether they are world authorities on

matters maritime with a deep and and

long understanding of what the straight

of Hormuz um represents and and how it

can and can't be navigated and and of

course um people who who who understand

Middle Eastern politics in a way that

you need to be a little bit more

dedicated to a single issue than most of

us can be. Um uh and yet we get the

calls. People ring us up and and it's

stopped.

It's stopped

the articles, the the the um analyses.

And I remember I have a look at even if

it's a cursory look, I have a look at

every single newspaper every day. I

don't really open the Express, but I

have a look at all the other newspapers

every day. Um and there no no particular

beef with the Express. it's just never

got anything in it that isn't already in

the mail. Uh I I I look at most of the

newspapers every day and I I lean

towards the ones that have got good

foreign desks. Oddly, the Telegraph is

still pretty near the top of the tree on

that. Ditto. The Guardian, less

surprisingly, um because they haven't

gone mad on their comment pages in the

way that the Telegraph has. The Times

does a decent job. There are some very,

very good foreign correspondents. The

same is true, of course, of broadcast.

And I don't watch broadcast news quite

as closely as I follow print and online.

Um, but I don't think I've been seeing

many detailed and expert analyses of the

ongoing conflict in the Middle East on

the telly either or listening to it on

the radio. And it's not fatigue

because we are still getting quite a lot

of detail about what's going on for

example in Ukraine. Uh the latest

figures, if you haven't seen them,

involve estimates that half a million

Russian troops have been killed. Half a

million Russians have died at the altar

of Vladimir Putin's epic and

uncontrollable arrogance. Half a million

human souls, half a million sons and

daughters, wives and husbands.

Extraordinary really to reflect upon

that almost unthinkable number. But we

still know where where borders are. We

still know where the fronts are. We

still know about drone attacks, one

overnight landing in Romania. The the

the because it's a it's a military

engagement. The diplomatic side of it is

fairly easy to unpick. It's almost a

battle between good and evil. So, it

lends itself to um

uh

kind of quite quite simplistic but I

think authentic analysis. And I think

not long ago, America versus Iran would

have felt a little bit like that to many

people in the West. The United States

has gone to battle against a theocratic,

murderous regime that hangs its own

citizens for fun. I mean, pick a side,

lads. It's not exactly difficult, is it?

And yet, who here would confidently

state that you can trust the White House

more on this than you can the Islamic

Revolutionary Guard? I'm not even

joking. I wish that I was. Who here can

confidently state that the White House

that claims it's a ceasefire on a

Monday, a new war on a Tuesday, a

victory on a Wednesday, a negotiation on

a Thursday, and an imminent deal on a

Friday, who here can claim that that

outlet is more trustworthy than the

Islamic Revolutionary Guard, a

collection of crackpots and murderers,

the likes of which thankfully the world

rarely sees.

And yet here we are having very little

clue

as to what is going on.

I said to you yesterday again in

retrospect. I mean these are it is a

good joke that Monday, Tuesday,

Wednesday, Thursday, Friday thing,

right? It's it's funny because it's

true. All it needs is a sort of Craig

David reference to be elevated to an

even greater comedic level. But the

other thing that that that I said to

you, the really scary thing

is that one day it will be true. So

there's five days and five different

narratives.

Let's go up to eight days, Tuesday of

next week, Monday of next week, and and

eight different narratives. And one day

it will be true. So one day soon what

the White House has said will be true.

But not because of anything that the

White House has done or anything that

the White House has achieved or anything

that the White House has negotiated

because the shakeddown will be complete

and Donald Trump's attempts to protect

his own honor, protect his own um

uh vanity. I don't even know. He would

have come to a personal internal

compromise that allows him to pretend

that it was a worthwhile exercise and

that he has come out on top. There is no

prospect of that happening. There is no

earthly way that the status quo at the

end of this will leave the United States

in a stronger position and Iran in a

weaker position than the status quo at

the beginning.

So

what what what do we do now?

H have have

we broken something really valuable

here?

When when you look at this continuing

conflict, when you look at I mean

there's a ceasefire and there isn't a

ceasefire. There's a ceasefire in Gaza

apparently, but Benjamin Netanyahu has

announced that he's going to take over

70% of the territory. Um I hope it's

quick enough for some people that the

speed of that attempt at ethnic

cleansing. I I I look at the situation

in Iran and I don't think it can be

analyzed because the White House, Donald

Trump, has successfully

broken everything. He's broken every

traditional

trope. He's broken every way in which

we, the public, can actually get a

handle on what is happening. How on

earth do we process as either punters or

professionals, how do we process the

fact that the story on Monday is

different from the story on Tuesday is

different from the story on Wednesday is

different from the story on Thursday is

different from the story on Friday.

And it's nearly quart 10, which means

Keith will be pointing at his watch in a

minute. And I haven't got close to

asking you a question because I don't

think you can answer that. That's not me

being conceited. I don't think I can

answer it. I don't think there is an

answer. How how do you process a world

in which the truth doesn't exist anymore

on an issue as important as they tell us

nuclear potential in the Middle East?

It's mad, right? So here is the only

question we can ask and through the lens

of this question

I think perhaps or hopefully we will get

a little bit more insight and we have to

keep doing this. You know that phrase

flooding the zone faridge is doing at

the moment with his secret 5 million

quid. He's throwing in so many stories.

Stop pointing at your watch, Keith. He's

throwing in so many stories and so many

different accounts. He's even introduced

Russian spies to the mix now. He's just

hoping that by creating this sort of

tsunami of boulder dash, then we'll all

get so distracted by the boulder dash

that we'll lose sight of the kernel of

truth at the center of the story, which

is that he secretly trousered 5 million

quid from a foreignbased billionaire

whose fortune would exponentially

increase if he introduced the policies

that he announced shortly after

trousering the 5 million quid he will he

will introduce when he's prime minister.

That's the beginning, the end, and the

middle of the of the story. You know, if

he'll if he'll praise the IRA for 87

quid, what the hell is he going to do

for 5 million? It's the only question

that we should really be worrying about.

But when you flood the zone,

you you can't really make sense of

anything.

So,

what's happened? 034560973.

What has Donald Trump done in the Middle

East and why? With the specific

reference to um

Iran, what has he done and why did he do

it? 034560973

is the number that you need. They they I

mean I I don't know how you cling to

loyalty to the Trump project at a time

like this because he lies to you 99% of

the time and on the one occasion when

he's not lying. It's an accidental

issue. It's a coincidence. But just step

right back to the beginning. Benjamin

Netanyahu who's been trying to attack

Iran for years. Every other president of

the United States of America has quite

rightly said, "Don't be stupid." Somehow

Trump got got got persuaded into it,

cajjol into it, conned into it, bullied

into I don't know.

and and he went in and what did he think

was going to happen? Why did he do it?

And what has happened? This is a

president who promised no wars. A pro a

president who promised no wars in the

Middle East. I've stopped analyzing it.

I've stopped discussing it with you

because the zone has been flooded. Let's

try and unflood the zone a bit together

today. Let's just try and work out how

we got to where we are. How have we got

to a place where there's a ceasefire on

a Monday, a threat to return Iran to the

stone age on a Tuesday? A declaration of

complete victory and obliteration of the

enemy on a Wednesday, a warning that if

the enemy doesn't stop fighting despite

being obliterated, then we'll have to

start hitting them even harder on a

Thursday. And any minute now, we're

going to have a ceasefire. Uh we're

going to have a deal. We're going to

have a memorandum of understanding. Any

minute now, we're gonna it's all going

to be finished on a Friday. I'm going to

say that again. I may get my words

slightly mixed up because I haven't got

a 2020 memory, but it's a ceasefire on a

Monday. It's a threat to bomb the place

back to the stone age on a Tuesday. A

threat of absolute genocide on a

Tuesday, although apparently that

depends on how quickly it happens. Um,

it's a a warning on a Wednesday. No, a

declaration of epic victory on a

Wednesday. They've absolutely

obliterated the opposition. And yet on a

Thursday they claim that the opposition

is hurting them badly enough to make

another threat of retaliation. And on a

Friday it's announced that they've

almost got to the ceasefire that they

last announced on Monday. That is

absolutely bonkers. It is almost beyond

comprehension, let alone articulation

and analysis. So what we do is we rewind

back to the beginning and we try and

work out how this happened by asking

what has happened. Why? Why? What

happened? What has happened?

What has actually happened?

034560973

is the number that you need. How how

have we ended up? And you can bring the

media into it. You can bring the White

House into it. You can bring the

Republicans into it. You can bring

Benjamin Netanyahu's regime into it. How

have we ended up in a world where

someone can start a war and then offer

up in the space of a week five different

stories about what is going on in that

war. Five different stories about what

is going on in that war. And listen, I

think I'd have poo pooed some of the

financial answers to this question a

month ago. I'm not poo pooing them now.

There's there can't be that much smoke

without any fire. uh the the way in

which these bets are placed either on

the prediction markets or the stock

market and then he announces that it's

almost over and oil goes up and then he

announces that it isn't and oil goes

down and then it is and it goes up and

it goes it's like a bloody penny whistle

but I just want your explanation of what

happened why it started and why what

happened subsequently happened. All

right, and listen this is a big ask. I

appreciate that especially on a very

sweltering Friday. But if we look away

from this stuff it only ever seems to

get worse. It never gets better. And the

clever people have stopped talking about

it because there there is nothing for

the clever people to do. What's the

point of writing a thousand words on

Monday about an imminent ceasefire when

on Tuesday they start bombing again? Or

what's the point of writing a thousand

words on a Wednesday about how he's

going to bomb them back to the stone age

when on a Thursday he claims that

they've already been obliterated?

Is there method in the madness? Hit the

numbers now. You will get through.

034560973

is the number you need.

>> James O'Brien on LBC.

>> I mean, you know, we beginning of this

year, the the show went bananas in the

United States of America online, and you

know how it works. I don't ever tailor

the show according to reaction. Um, but

it was gratifying to think that people

were coming to us for an analysis of

what Trump was like because so much of

the United States media had been bought

and packaged and popped in his pocket by

the billionaire owners. And then we just

stopped. I was thinking about this on

the way home yesterday. We just stopped

because I think the ability to make any

sense at all of it slipped out of our

reach. But that means you've got to try

harder, right? There was a little quote

at the tube station this morning at Elen

Broadway. Um, it said something like

success is falling down nine times and

getting up 10 times. I It doesn't quite

work as a mantra for a radio phone in

program because by the time you're

getting up for the 10th time, there

might not be any listeners left. But you

don't stop trying just because it's

getting harder and harder and harder.

What the hell has Trump done and why has

he done it? Nick's in Canterbury. Nick,

what would you like to say?

>> Hello. Um well I think that um Trump is

a malignant narcissist. He's also very

old. He's very unwell. I believe he has

dementia and he's in the last stages of

it. He's obviously physically unwell as

well as being mentally uh declining. And

because of his narcissism, he's always

been highly susceptible to both flattery

and bribery. The man is a proven

criminal. He's never had a successful

business in his life.

>> Hang on a minute. I just I'm just

putting on my uh journalism legal

training 101 before you carry on. He is

he is a multiple felon. That's correct.

He has run some successful businesses. I

I think albeit he did manage to lose

money running a casino which takes a

very specific and special sort of

talent. But but carry on. So far so

good.

>> Declared bankruptcy and two casinos. I

mean, who bankrupts a casino if you're

no good at what you do?

>> Well, I unless of course you're running

away with all the money yourself and

leaving somebody else to pick up the

bill. So, there's always possibilities,

but I think we're all familiar with the

CV. Uh, in this case,

>> how does any of that explain what he has

done in and to Iran?

>> Netanyahu has wanted to do this for

decades. He's wanted a Iran bomb for

decades, but he's never found a person

in the White House office who was stupid

enough to do it before. And now he's got

one. He's Putin's puppet and he's

Netanyahu's puppet. And the only reason

that we and America and the world by

extension are in this mess now is

because of Trump's

out just ridiculous mindset and

sickness. I mean, he really should have

been

>> out of office.

>> How how has how come it's gone so badly

from everybody's point of view? because

there's a lot of uh coverage in Israel

now about how the resolution will

probably leave them in a less safe

position than they were in in the first

place

>> because the people the people that want

the the fundamental violence in society

are people who don't care about what

other people think. So people like Putin

who's a psychopath who's killed half a

million of his own people who you stated

just just before

>> Trump who didn't give a a damn about his

own population during COVID and

Netanyahu who quite happily genocides

the people of Palestine. These people

are fundamentally without empathy or

compassion. They don't care about anyone

but themselves and their own outcomes.

>> But how is this outcome good for Trump?

>> Well, he doesn't he doesn't realize it

isn't.

>> Okay. I don't think he's intelligent

enough to realize he isn't.

>> And and well, he's got this sort of I

don't know, intelligence isn't quite the

right word. A sort of feral instinct.

>> He's got a feral instinct.

>> And he will persuade enough people that

he has pulled off a glorious victory.

That's the thing that I mean, but

actually that goes hand in hand with the

historical analysis, doesn't it, of all

of these leaders who who have been truly

hideous, have managed to persuade enough

of the population that they're messiahs

to do the really terrible thing. Stalin,

Hitler, they all have that same mindset.

I mean, the word

>> we call it charisma, don't we? We call

it

>> No, we Well, we shouldn't. We should

call it what it is. We should be That's

fundamentally what's missing from

mainstream media reporting is absolute

honesty and, you know, telling it like

it is rather than painting a both sides.

>> Yeah. and and saying putting words in

quotes and not not calling them lies,

not demonstrating that they're so I mean

so I

>> and I'm usually a little bit allergic to

simple answers to to what appear at

first glance to be complicated questions

and there's still plenty of room for

elaboration but the basic the basic

answer Okam's razor delivers the basic

answer which is that he is a he is a

morally

>> bankrupt human being

>> yeah absolutely and in the very

shortterm moment when Netanyahu was

leaning on him to do this he thought

that his own appetites, his own

activistic appetites would be best

served by doing it. So, he did.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he's currently

in the process apparently of um

according to a report on one of the um

the independent news sites on YouTube

today, he's currently in the process of

painting four horses in uh four statue

horses in Washington DC gold.

I don't I don't even I mean I'd usually

push back at this point and say things

like, "Well, you can't believe

everything you read on independent news

sources, but you can't believe

everything you read anywhere at the

moment. Wait until I tell you about the

the the the transvestite Thai policemen

who are all over the news yesterday up

to and including the Daily Telegraph."

And no, that was not the name of my

first band. Uh Nick, well, great start

to the program. Thank you. I I mean, I

kind of a bit worried about Idiots's

Corner. I popped into Idiots's Corner

yesterday. It's covered in cobwebs. Hey,

where's Dick Little John when you need

him? writing columns about how Trump is

brilliant and how he's never been more

ashamed to be British and how uh he

wishes that Donald Trump was the

president of this country and that we

could get rid of our that democratically

elected prime minister. I I I don't have

have I got anyone who is actually trying

to pretend that that that what Trump is

doing or what Trump is um fits any other

analysis than uh than Nicks. I don't

know. 1028 is the time. Robin's in tower

hamlets. Robin, what would you like to

say?

>> Oh, good morning. Hello Robin.

>> What I'd like to say um if you if you

take a step back and look back in

history um if you go back to the the

year 1 or 1200 I mean the the year 1

would have been a thousand years after

the the birth of Christ. That's why it's

1,00 whatever it is. Anyway, um there

were crusades were started by um the

pope at the time and the aim of the

crusades was to um wrestle Jerusalem

from the Palestinians

and that's what the crusades were and

that's how it ended up being um if you

like Christians against um Arabs or

Muslims if you like. Now, I think

there's a ninth crusade and it's

unwritten and I don't know where it

comes from, but it feels like because I

noticed I did I worked for Euro 96. Oh,

yeah. And there

>> I knew you were going to say that as

soon as you said Ninth Crusade, I knew

you were going to say analogy with

football. I promise you. I promise you.

I promise you. But um I noticed there

were some fans, some of the English fans

in some of the English games

>> dressed up as crusaders

>> were dressed in male and they had like a

white uh so George's cross on and there

was always three of them in a row and I

noticed this at Wimbledon and other

events and

>> yeah but I mean the Daily Express when I

worked on it had an advert featuring a

Crusader. It was like it was the

insignia fact. Let me see. I still get

it. I don't open it most mornings but I

think we're still I still have it in

front of me. I don't even know if

they've still got it on their mast head,

but they certainly used to.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and and

>> Yeah, there is. There's a crusader

there. It doesn't prove that it's not

the N. And also, not to be that bloke

robin, but we had a ninth crusade

already.

>> Have we? Okay.

>> Yeah. 1271. It was Lord Edward's

crusade.

>> Oh, right. Okay.

>> Military expedition to the Holy Land

under the command of Edward Long Shanks.

Do you know how much money my parents

paid for this education?

I I know that the the the I I got a

feeling that it is an extension and it

is a crusade because and because um if

you if you look about Jerusalem and WI

and Christians um

>> the women's institute

>> no no because they they they use

Jerusalem so it's this kind of

>> Yeah. But this I mean who in Trump

Trump's not got any idea about any of

this. So,

>> what I'm thinking is that he he is part

of this crusade because it's to

eradicate um um Muslims from from um

Gaza and and

then extend it even further. I don't

know that I mean the I mean you know

Israel being the Jewish state probably

undermines some elements of your

historical parallels but of course there

is a brand of Christian fundamentalism

that um that thinks that the that the

second coming will only occur in certain

circumstances at the heart of which lies

Jerusalem. So I well I mean listen this

is the problem in some ways that you've

highlighted in that I I'm not going to

mock you or criticize you for bringing

1,000-year-old historical events into

the conversation because it is as

plausible as what the president is

saying. It is at least as I hope you

don't find that offensive, Robin. It is

probably more plausible. It's more

plausible than the idea that you have a

ceasefire on a t on a Monday. Uh you

have hostilities on a Tuesday. You have

a threat to bomb them back to the stone

age on a Wednesday. You have um uh I've

forgotten the the order of the things

that happen and that's the point. How do

you possibly keep up with any of this?

What do you cling to during times of

such epic confusion? Uh thank you,

Robin. Dominic Ellis has your headlines.

>> James O'Brien on LBC.

>> 35 is the time. We are absolutely

bananjacked, aren't we? Absolutely

banjaxed.

You you you can offer up almost anything

in answer to the question that I'm

asking now. And the likelihood of it

having the veneer of truth is for the

birds. If if the official accounts are

utterly contradictory, completely

contradictory,

how on earth can anybody in my

profession or in the business of ringing

radio stations or in the business of

ringing this program, the the most

listened to in the history of the genre,

I'm told. Have I mentioned that to you

before? Um, we're absolutely screwed.

It's just worked. This is This was the

alternative 10:00.

Is is is has it worked? Are we finished?

Is it is it almost impossible or is it

now actually impossible? Who can really

look Robin in the eye in Tower Hamlet

and tell him that his ninth crusade,

technically 10th, but hey, let's not

quibble, his 10th crusade theory is any

more feasible or unfeasible than every

other explanation.

And and and in answer to the question,

where are we now? Well, you need to

check the clock. Oh, ceasefire. It's

ceasefire clock. Oh, tell tell a lie.

It's bond them back to the stone age

clock. Oh, no, it isn't. It's uh memo of

understanding any minute now. A clock.

Oh, no. My mistake. It's um we've

completely obliterated them. Victory is

complete. Go me. Let's build another

statue. Can I have another FIFA Peace

Prize, please? It literally you have to

look at the clock

to know where we are, where the needle

is pointing. So, we've we're done. We've

failed. I don't know that it was ever

possible. I mean, I'm not giving up on

the question that I'm asking you. And

the bloke that's up next actually does

have answers to some of these questions

that are both evidential and

substantive. But in terms of the really

big picture, what has happened and why,

wants to make a few quid, got bullied

into it, got blackmailed into it, got

bribed into I I mean, who who that who

knows? And the kind of journalists that

might once have been able to dig into

this, well, they're lucky if they've

still got a job in a media in the United

States that's largely owned by Trump

supporting billionaires.

And if you are under any illusions at

all about why billionaires are giving

huge sums of money to Nigel Farage, both

to his party and secretly straight into

his current account, it's because

they're watching what's happening in the

United States of America, and they're

clocking the fact that the richest

people in the world can get even richer

if they've got a psy.

That's not even an opinion. And that's

just counting. But when it comes to

Iran, it's still, I think, important,

even if possibly futile, to ask the

question of why. What what has happened?

What has happened and why?

What has happened and why? Ash is in

Northampton, the the man to whom we turn

probably unfairly with very high

expectations. But you haven't let us

down yet. Ash, what would you like to

say?

>> Good morning, James. Yeah, I want first

want to take issue. It's a lovely joke,

but um it does take all of my analysis

down to a timetable.

>> Yeah.

>> Which is kind of a bit annoying, but

>> Well, of course it is. But I mean I I

mean, some of the things that you tell

us are true. Some of the things you tell

us should be true. Some of them are

demonstrably true. But if the president

of the United States is saying the polar

opposite of what you know to be true, it

gets reported because it's the president

of the United States that said it. And

somewhere in the midst of that mess, we

sit here trying to make sense of things.

>> Yeah. So, I've been I've been thinking

about this. The reason that you haven't

heard much is everything nothing's

really changed since I last spoke to

you.

>> In fact, when when I last spoke to you,

I did say there were four things on the

table, the straight of four news, the um

assets that are all frozen, the nuclear

material, and and it's all that that's

>> still in play. Those are still the only

pieces on the board.

>> Precisely. So, so it gets a bit boring,

but I I've spent the time in between

thinking a lot about what where where

all this has come from.

>> Yes. Yes,

>> because I'm sort of going back and and

writing a few things about it. Um,

>> I think this is all this all comes down

to one word and it's legacy,

>> right?

>> Trump seems to have spent his entire

life living in his father's shadow and

he wants some sort of legacy that he can

point to. Everything that he seems to

have done has been leading to that point

just so he can say that he was better at

at things than other people. M

>> what what does that leave us with? Well,

he he hated the JCPOA because it had

Obama's name on it.

That led him made him very susceptible

to Benjamin Netanyahu turning around and

saying, "Well, all you have to do is do

what I tell you and you can get

something even better."

That's what he wanted. Unfortunately,

>> and you can be a historically successful

president who succeeded where all his

predecessors failed.

>> Yes.

>> Just don't ask for any detail.

>> Precisely. Just put his put his face on

the $250 bill and don't ask questions.

>> That's not a joke, by the way, for

people listening. That's something that

has been cited in an interview with the

Treasury Secretary who responded by

saying, "Well, it's currently against

the Constitution to put anybody's

anybody living, I think, put their face

on a dot on on on legal tender in the

United States of America, but we're

looking into that." So, the $250 Trump

bill. Carry on.

>> That's all right. So, you know, that's

what it all boils down to. And

unfortunately in the first

administration he probably would have

done the same thing. But he was

surrounded by people who weren't just

yesmen.

>> Yeah.

>> People who actually understood what was

going on. You look at the purge that has

gone on. I mean we we talk in this

country about the Boris Johnson purge of

the Conservative Party. Nothing compared

to what Trump's done

>> for sure

>> to and it's not not just to the

executive branch. He's done it to the

military. He's done it to the civil

service. He's done it to all these

different branches. All these

professionals who knew what they were

talking about are all gone.

>> I mean, the Department of Justice,

again, for people who aren't paying as

much attention as you are, has um is

reportedly looking into pursuing EJ

Carroll, the the woman that accused

Donald Trump of rape and and that

culminated in a trial where um well,

he's then sued her for liel and lost.

So, you know, she is now coming under

investigation by Trump's Department of

Justice. So the the the the hyperbole,

the the idea that you can exaggerate how

horrible this regime is is um that that

perished some time ago.

>> Um so so to precy then Netanyahu sweet

talked him into it. Netanyahu doesn't

really care or didn't care at that point

what actually happened. He just wanted

to inflict as much damage as possible on

Iran in order to sort of bolster up his

domestic position and keep people like

um uh Smott and and the and the bloke

who filmed himself abusing British and

Irish citizens the other day, um Benu

and in his in his power structure. Um

nobody in his circle ever ever says boo

to the Trumpian goose in any way, shape

or form anymore. The journalists

included are all on board with anything

he says. And if he changes mind and says

the opposite tomorrow, they pretend that

that's the best thing that they've ever

heard. Again, I can't believe I'm not

exaggerating, but I'm not. They will

literally say the polar opposite of what

they praised yesterday. Is today the

best thing that they've ever heard? And

what has unfolded in the straight hall

news in particular, we know largely

thanks to you telling us much earlier

than many other people got the memo was

almost inevitable, very close to

inevitable. reopening it remains beset

by all the problems that you've

described to us in the past, which means

that the likely resolution will be um

inferior to what was in place under the

JCPOA and even inferior to what was in

place 3 months ago.

>> Precisely. And then there's there's a

few things about the conspiracy theories

I want to say.

>> Go on.

>> Which is I think it's

without going all Latin. post ergo

proptook

>> you're the people who are there are not

making money out of it because that was

the original thought process.

>> No, that's not why they did it.

>> They are a bunch of jackals

who can see a quick profit being made by

other people and they're all jumping on

the bandwagon.

>> Yeah, it's a symptom, not a cause. It's

a symptom of the sickness, not a cause.

I think you're right. That's a good

analysis of the because I I can't tell

people who are saying people are making

a ton of money out of this that they're

wrong because that's not an opinion.

It's counting. But you can say that is

not why they did it.

>> Yeah. They they did it because of

legacy. And you know, everything always

boils down to

Trump's ego and his legacy. He purged

his cabinet. He purged the the entire

government that he controls of anybody

that would say no to him. and he can now

do what he likes to try and make himself

basically a god or at least a king.

>> And we're back we're back to the golden

statues and the and the and the and the

face an emperor a sort of Roman style

emperor. So I mean and that means you

can't now despite all your expertise and

experience. You are also at sea if you

pardon the pun for a maritime scholar.

you are also at sea because none of the

rules that you work under or none of the

reg none of the traditions or precedents

that you would normally apply apply.

They don't work.

>> It's over when Trump has managed to

persuade himself that he can

successfully persuade enough people that

he's won.

>> Yeah. And I I I had a captain once who

>> if you provided him with too many

options during a passage plan,

>> he would never approve it

>> because he was so concerned. He'd made a

mistake in the past, which is fair

enough. It makes sense.

>> And he was so concerned about making

another mistake that he didn't want

options. He just wanted somebody to tell

him what we're going to do

>> and you can approve that.

And I think that's the problem that

we're in right now is that Trump doesn't

want people to come to him and say,

"Well, sir, we can bomb them. We can

retreat. We can do this." He just wants

somebody to tell like Benjamin Netanyahu

would have made it very easy for him.

You bomb them, we can then force them

into a deal and you'll look like a great

president.

>> You'll be the king. You'll be you'll be

the king of the hill. You'll be the

of the walk.

>> Yeah.

>> And he wanted to believe it so much that

he did. And he started and all of the

people who said, "Hey, hang on a minute.

The straight hall moves. This is this is

absolutely insane. This mission didn't

even get heard, let alone he did." Um

I Yeah, you're right. I can't even ask

you now what time scale you'd put on it

because it's utterly arbitrary, right?

>> Uh well, do you know what that you

mentioned the the Treasury Secretary

yesterday? Um I watched his briefing uh

in full.

>> He did say one thing that was absolutely

true.

>> Go on.

>> All of this hinges on what Donald Trump

wants.

>> Yeah.

>> The moment he wants to either walk away

or escalate, it will happen. Until then

we are left in a holding pattern and you

know people will keep saying that it's

because he wants to make money as I

don't think it is like it is literally

decision paralysis.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which means it's

analysis paralysis as well.

>> Yes.

>> Doesn't it? So there's things there's

things that you can explain to us but

there are there are I mean I don't want

to sound like Donald Rumsfeld but there

are things that cannot be explained

because they depend upon whim whim the

whim of a madman. That's where we are

now and it's where we've been all along.

But I think the ability to contradict

that position um has probably left the

building. Ash, you're a star as ever.

Thank you very much indeed. 104 I'll

share some of Ash's work on Blue Sky

shortly so that you can find him on

there and benefit from his insights and

expertise. It is 10:46. Hannah Arent is

a is a scholar of totalitarianism

um who wrote a bunch of books. The

benality of evil probably the one that

moved me most, but the origins of

totalitarianism

is uh is one of hers as well. And Tom

shared a quote from that that is so on

the money that you would think it was

written this morning. I I'll I'll share

it with you after this.

>> James O'Brien on LBC.

>> You will be first to come out and claim

what that whatever sort of Tim Pot

agreement they come to is superior to

anything that Barack Obama ever did cuz

Trump will claim that. And of course the

real villains of this piece are are the

are the ones who insist that the emperor

is not naked. the ones that come out and

and endorse and enforce and inflate the

lie. That that's where the United States

of America is. Now, if you want to see

arguably the most powerful metaphor

you will ever see, have a look at aerial

photographs of the White House at the

moment and compare them to aerial

photographs of the White House when Joe

Biden lived there. It is it is I mean it

is beyond parody actually. I suspect

that people like Armando Yanichi who is

stepping away from political satire I

read for a while to write the new

Paddington movie. He he'll be doing

Paddington 4 with his collaborator Simon

Blackwell which fills me with an unholy

excitement actually. I think we can all

agree the third one wasn't as good as

the second one and Hugh Grant should

have won an Oscar for the second one. Am

I right? Thank you. It's not an opinion

that's counting. Uh but the but the

photograph of the White House to one

side is a bomb site, a building site if

you prefer, but it looks like a bomb

site and to the other they are is an

erection um of a UFC fighting octagon uh

that is being put there for Trump's

birthday celebration. So do you know I

think was it I think I said to Ash a

moment ago he was going for for king or

or god or and I said Roman emperor. He's

building his own coliseum,

but he's no Caesar. He's he's all he's

all Nero. What was the name of Wim

Phoenix's emperor? That's um he's he's

he's much more that than Russell Crowe.

I think we can all agree. And and there

it is. That metaphor, that picture

speaks a thousand words. You've got a

bomb site and a and an altar to his own

ego

where once you had a a you know a

beautiful building, carefully manicured

lawns in extraordinary history and

tradition and no erection.

Extraordinary really. 10:52 is the time.

Dom's on the whirl. Dom, what would you

like to say?

>> Morning James. Hope you well.

>> I'm very well Dom. What's what's on your

mind? Firstly, um, your previous caller,

Ash, what a guy. Um, he's absolutely on

the money in my opinion.

>> If you build it, if you build it, they

will come, Dom. If you build it, they

will come. Carry on.

>> Absolutely. Props to him. Um, he talked

a lot about legacy with Trump. And I

think that's the reason behind it. He

Trump can feel time creeping up behind

him. The Reaper tapping him on the

shoulder. He's looking over and

everything he does now is for

self-glorification or enrichment of the

family. Um Ash was absolutely spot on

with that and you both also touched upon

um the backers and cheerleaders are now

making a fortune from market moves and

investing in different companies. I

think what we missed out with the middle

part how is it getting away with doing

this and that the US Congress which is

supine at best. Yes. And the media which

have been bought and paid for that aong

the Congress is is odd because that's

where the power could and should lie.

But because Trump's captured the media,

starting with Fox and going on to the

more far-right and extreme broadcasters

and their media outlets,

>> and then circling back to the ones that

weren't far-right to begin with, but are

now being repopulated entirely by Trump

friendly um producers and and and and

editors. CBS being a particularly

hideous example. And the BBC still

hasn't found the wherewithal to stop

them from being the BBC's official

partner in the United States of America,

even though it's become a propaganda

platform.

>> Well, the due pro lawsuit to you

bringing through the DOJ now, his

private law firm, the Department of

Justice. Um, he unlimited funds. He

doesn't care. He can bring any lawsuit

he want to get anybody he like.

>> I promise that we will never investigate

the tax affairs of you or any of your

family. That fits your analysis about

legacy cuz that's like it's a rancid

legacy, isn't it? Ed the idea who who on

earth would need an assurance that their

tax affairs would never be investigated

except people whose tax affairs should

absolutely be investigated but

protecting his family from he doesn't

seem to like his family very much. I

mean he didn't even go to his son who

it's probably the one thing that makes

sense about his conduct. He didn't even

go to his son's wedding the other day.

But the thing about a narcissist that I

read I read this I think in John

Ronson's book the psychopath test is

that sometimes their family or even

their dogs are an extension of

themselves. So even though they don't

care about them as human beings they

care about them as an extension of their

own ego. So to to protect his children

from prosecution would be to protect his

legacy. You see

>> the media that haven't been cowed. He's

had his friend buy them, hence Steven

Colbear being kicked out and Jimmy

Kimmel being on the sho string at the

moment

>> and Trump celebrating it. So I mean,

yeah, you're right. I did you you it is

a missing piece of the jigsaw is the

absolute res absence of of resistance or

push back and and I guess the the answer

that is coming into focus due to Okam's

razor I suppose as much as anything else

is is that he was mistakenly or or

falsely persuaded that this would be an

easy and glorious victory that would put

him on a higher pedestal than any other

president who dipped a toe into matters

Middle Eastern. I think Congress's

supplication is going to be very very

interesting come September and the

midterms because Trump's foisting very

very unpopular I'm thinking Paxton here

candidates um onto the the ticket for

the Republicans they're going to get

spanked the house but they get spanked

their mind this is a fascinating

calculus isn't it because he he if you

stand up against him you will lose the

nomination you'll lose the primary if

Trump doesn't want you to get the

primary but by dent of being a Trump

crony, you become much less likely to

perform well in the actual election. So

you'll win the internal Republican party

election that at the primary, but the

winner of that becomes demonstrably less

likely to to win a battle with the

entire electorate, which is partly, of

course, why they're gerrymandering and

and doctoring the the the the electorate

and moving constituencies and boundaries

all over the place. Thank you, Don. I I

mean, I can't fault a single thing you

said. Um, I did however promise to share

the words of Hannah Erent from the

origins of totalitarianism. I think

that's what it's called. The Yeah, the

origins of totalitarianism. Um, listen

to this. And it's probably worth

remembering what year it was written in.

So, I'll I'll double check that in a

moment for you as well. In an

everchanging, incomprehensible world,

the masses had reached the point where

they would at the same time believe

everything and nothing. Think that

everything was possible and nothing was

true. The totalitarian mass leaders

based their propaganda on the correct

psychological assumption that under such

conditions, one could make people

believe the most fantastic statements

one day and trust that if the next day

they were given irrefutable proof of

their falsehood, they would take refuge

in cynicism. Instead of deserting the

leaders who had lied to them, they would

protest that they had known all along

that the statement was a lie and would

admire the leaders for their superior

tactical cleverness,

which is a much much much more

intelligent way of expressing what I

attempted to do in the style of Craig

David.

You tell a lie on Monday, you tell

another lie on Tuesday, you take a lie

for a drink on Wednesday. I won't carry

on with that because Hannah Erin has uh

put it rather but that's it, isn't it? I

mean it it probably is that simple.

Dell's in Edinburgh with the last word

on this. Dell, what would you like to

say?

>> Uh good morning James and it's comedous.

>> Of course it is. The president played by

the president the emperor Freudian slip

there prayed by Phoenix Comedus. You're

quite right. He is more Comeodus than

Augustus I think. Carry on Dell.

>> Well we know that Donald Trump is a man

narcissist. He has no empathy for

anybody but himself. He hates his

children. He's always hated his wives.

And the other thing I think we're being

distracted by Iran uh sorry Iran for

what's going on in America at the

moment. I I feel really scared for

Americans with the midterms. I think

something's going to happen in the next

couple of months. It's just one of those

times, James, where we can't trust

America, and that's that's just wrong.

>> Had we ever been in that position

before?

>> Who is? Well, we couldn't rely on them

to come to our aid, but that was more a

reflection of a world order that they'd

clocked and we hadn't. It wasn't it

wasn't there wasn't a moral bankruptcy,

I don't think, in the White House, was

there? It was just a a pragmatic

calculation of international relations,

not just American interest. And and and

the UK and France were probably 20 years

off the off the pace.

>> These don't seem to be American's

interest. This seems to be Trump's

interest.

>> Exactly that. Exactly that.

>> Yahoo's interest.

>> Yeah. It's not America's interest to be

at war with Iran because of things like

fuel. It's an obvious thing why America

doesn't go to war with Iraq in the

straight of wars until they get the

supplement in who will allow that. And

and I think he is the the symptom of a

major problem that we have in Western

society at the moment.

>> Go on.

>> Nigel Farage. These are all people who

should be nowhere near power, but they

have the voice. They have the money

behind them.

>> Oh, they have the money behind them.

>> They have the money and they Yeah,

you're right. and they have the

communications machines in order to

>> they have no diplomatic experience. They

have no idea what ambassadorial ship is

and and basically what these this

western civilization thing that's

happening at the moment. It it's ruining

the west. And as for your talk about

crusades earlier,

>> yeah,

>> I'm a veteran as I've told you before

and I know a lot of veterans that are

now either sporting that cross tattoo or

wearing it as a badge. The same tattoo

that's on Pete Exit. So talking about

crusades and stuff, it's out there,

James. Well, so so they would they they

think, well, I know I don't probably

spend enough time on Twitter to be able

to answer this question myself. I don't

spend any time at all on Twitter

anymore, but but you're talking about a

sort of civilizational war between

Muslims and everybody else.

>> It's going further than just Muslims.

I'm hearing talk about anti-women, not

anti-trans, anti-women, putting women

back in their place. It's all out there,

James. We've got we've got a candidate

um

>> in the space at the moment who has

stated as I discussed with Carol Verman

yesterday, I am a sexist. Deal with it

or or words to that effect. And of

course it goes hand in hand. A lot of

the people um heavily invested in the

trans debate um living in complete

denial about some of the um some of the

gates unlocked by the tone of that

debate and and what was inevitably going

to follow. If you're allowed to talk

about certain sections of society with

utter contempt, then other sections of

society will soon fall into place. Even

if you are are personally repelled by

that, the the door has been open. The

genie is out of the bottle. And of

course, sexism follows because it's

always those three things, racism and

misogyny, um, which will be weaponized

in order to allow the people who make

all the money to continue making all the

money, which is why you also need

climate change denial. You'll get all

three. Oh, and I've got an example of

the third for you coming up later. James

O'Brien on LBC. It's

>> after 11 is the time. I'm just going to

hop in the Delorean and go back a couple

of days if I may to a story that you

probably missed at the time. It was

reported on Wednesday that there have

been 55 thou 55,000 suspensions

from English schools. That's English

alone. But I'm 99% certain that the

issue that led to these suspensions

applies equally in Wales, Scotland, and

Northern Ireland. Maybe not quite

equally actually, but certainly will

still apply in Wales, Scotland, and

Northern Ireland. So between 2020 and

2025, there were 55,000 suspensions in

English schools linked to racist abuse.

Um, and it's a little bit hard properly

to track these instances because there's

no legal requirement to do so. But

they've done their best and also logged

um 13,000 cases of suspensions uh based

on homophobic or transphobic abuse and

1,600 suspensions for disabilist.

It's interesting. I I was going to talk

about this anyway, but Don and uh Dell

in Edinburgh's last point about how

these people who are currently defining

discourse um move effortlessly from one

uh target to another. And it's not even

a minority. Remember, because when the

misogyny kicks in properly, all women

are fair game, which is why you're going

to hear more about abortion being talked

about by people who don't care about

humans or children, but who care

apparently passionately about fetuses.

Spoiler alert, they care about the

bodily autonomy of women. And if they

have no uh recourse to abortion or even

contraception, which will be next on the

list, then they can be um essentially

enslaved in uh in an unsympathetic

society. If you don't believe me, read

The Handmaid's Tale. Um

that story got very little coverage. Uh

the the story getting all the coverage

today is the horrible story about the um

18-year-old stabbed in Southampton,

Henry Novak, and the attempts by some

members, if not almost all members of

the media to turn it into some sort of

racial issue because the uh the murderer

lied to the police. The police briefly

believed him. Uh they quickly realized

the error that they had made in

believing him. Um, it was the killer's

own brother that made the 999 call to

the police and they they recognized

their mistake fairly quickly and the

murderer is now being jailed. The the

murderer has now gone to jail. But

because because you what you can't

understand is why that is a story. Well,

because the lies of the murderer led to

the victim being cautioned at the scene

and handcuffed before police realized

how profoundly injured he was. But

again, you're thinking, what's that God

do? Why is that? The killer was brown

and and the victim was white.

So the story in modern Britain assumes a

completely different complexion from how

it would if we just talked about two

humans. One human criminal

lied to the police and the police

briefly believed him. The lies he told

about another human, a victim, were

persuasive enough for the police who

arrived at the scene to caution and

handcuff the victim who they quickly

realized was injured and sought to

resuscitate and save.

But but but they couldn't and they

didn't. So they live with that for the

rest of their lives. They also now live

with accusations from deeply disgusting

politicians and members of the media

that they did so for some um race-based

reason because the victim was white and

the lying culprit criminal was brown,

which is so obviously heenous and

dangerous that you'd think even the

likes of honest Bob Generick might fight

a little bit shy of trying to make

political capital. Don't be ridiculous.

Of course, they're not going to fight

shy of trying to make. So just con

contemplate that story with

a black and white television. You can't

see the shade of the culprit, the killer

or the victim's skin.

I always think of Alice Gross at moments

like this. A poor woman, poor poor poor

young woman who was murdered just I mean

almost yards to be honest with you from

where I now live. and the pleas from her

family to politicians and members of the

media not to turn it into a conversation

about immigration because the man, the

monster who murdered her uh had not been

born in this country. How much respect

do you think the usual suspects had for

the pleas of Alice's family not to turn

her murder into an opportunity to attack

immigrants or immigration in general?

Yeah, you're right. And where are we

now? looking at the horrible, horrible

murder of a beautiful young man um by a

horrible character who hopefully will

rot in jail for the rest of his life.

But because the killer is brown and the

victim is white, some people are

determined to add two and two together

and come up with five in a way that

profoundly endangers um the police's

ability to do their job. And of course

the likelihood of anybody wanting to

join a police force when they're going

to be judged according to not what they

do but the ethnicity of the people that

they do it to. And that incredible

phrase two-tier policing taking hold in

a country where police services are

routinely found to be institutionally

racist. You have people now claiming

that the um that the police service in

this country is somehow biased against

white people

and appropo nothing in particular. Did

you know that one of the founders of the

organization hanging tatty flags from uh

uh lamp posts in a in a street near you

has been um charged with murder?

And I'll say that again because the kind

of people using phrases like two-tier

policing and the kind of politicians

like Robert Genrich who praise the

characters hanging flags from lamp posts

somewhere near you won't be telling you

this anytime soon, but one of the

founders of the so-called raise the

colors organization has been charged

with murder.

Lovely. 11-11 is the time. I I mention

all of that because the the the story I

think

about this extraordinary number of

suspensions over race, sexuality,

um or disability.

This extraordinary number of suspensions

I think, and I am a naive, as you know,

I'm a sweet summer child.

I think this would have been a big story

a couple of years ago, wouldn't it? It

would have been, wouldn't it? How many

suspension? 70,000

mentions logged in fewer than 5 years

regarding suspensions over racist,

homophobic, and disabilist abuse in our

schools. I'm sure I I I never have a

talk about a time machine. It can only

take me back to Wednesday. I can't go

back to two years ago and just see what

would happen if a story like this was

published. Maybe it got wider coverage

than I realized. May maybe I just missed

stuff, but I don't think so. and I

caught myself and and you're not I think

you're going to be a bit cross with me

about this.

This story was in front of me on

Wednesday

and

it didn't resonate like it should have

done and would have done once

because I think of the question of

scale. You know, if I as I say, I read

every newspaper every day. I look at

most of the news sites all the time and

if I was seeing it everywhere, I'd be

thinking to myself, "Oh, yes, we'll do

that today."

But I only saw it tucked away on the BBC

website. And it's a story also about

anti-bullying cuts because Osborne's

razor takes us back to austerity and the

cuts to the anti-bullying charities that

it is argued lead to have led to a

shocking rise in school exclusions. not

for playing truent or cheeking a

teacher, but for racist, homophobic, and

disableist abuse and transphobic abuse,

our children behaving like Nigel Farage

did at school. And I suppose if he can

claim that that's absolutely fine and

there's nothing wrong with it and all of

his cronies and cretins can queue up to

defend his um jokes about gas chambers

and claims that Hitler was right

remembered by many many of his

contemporaries at school then why would

a kid today think that they wouldn't be

allowed to do stuff like that? Why why

would a kid today think there was

anything wrong with that kind of

behavior if the telly's full of people

adults grown-ups behaving similarly?

Racist, homophobic, and disabilist

abuse. 70,000 English children suspended

from school. It would have been a story,

wouldn't it? You'd have heard of that by

now. Couple of years ago, 5 years ago,

certainly pre-rexit.

And yet, here we are. Here we are, 30

minutes after 11 is the time. Um,

I actually, one of the things you can

say with some confidence about people

who use the phrase two-tier policing is

that they also refuse to understand or

fail to understand or are too thick to

understand what white privilege is.

Um that's built upon this idea that

somehow people like me, white, straight,

middleclass men are more vulnerable in

this country than either gay men, women,

uh disabled people or ethnic minorities.

We are the real we are the real victims

of the modern what a bunch of whining

losers they are. Honestly, I just do

they ever stop bleing and whining about

how put upon and hardone by they are

absolutely extraordinary that you can be

a beneficiary of the most economically

um uh successful

uh period of human history and you can

be on the right side of all the cultural

divides. you're a man, you're

heterosexual,

uh you are not disabled, all of these

all of these like trump cards, these

winning cards in a skewed and unfair

society and all you ever do is moan

about how unfair everything is and how

you're the real victim. It's absolutely

extraordinary. A that you can lie

straight in bed at night and b that you

um get encouraged by politicians and

members of the media to think that

you're the real victims here.

extraordinary.

I mean, to be fair, you read all the

time about heterrophobic attacks, don't

you? And about heterrophobic murders.

You read all the time about um incidents

of racism that are directed at white

middleclass people or white workingclass

people, whatever that's supposed to mean

these days. Oh yes, you definitely

wouldn't want to be a white person in

modern Brit, a white straight person in

modern Brit. Good God, talk about taking

your life in your hands. And that, of

course, I've just realized, is why you

lie about London. You have to pretend

that if you're a white person wandering

around London, you're somehow at

peculiar or particular risk, even if you

live in a country with a murder rate or

a city with a murder rate that's a

billion times what ours is.

So,

what question am I going to ask you

about this? Well, I'm going to ask you a

question built on my white privilege, my

my abbleist privilege, my hetroormative

privilege, um my cis privilege, built

upon the fact that I am statistically

part of by far the least likely section

of society to be on the receiving end of

any form of discrimination or hate

crime, whatever the Daily Mail and their

um broadcasters in human form may tell

you, and whatever they may currently be

trying to do with the hideous murder of

Henry Novak, I am part of the

constituency in this country that is

enormously less likely to be the victim

of any form of discrimination, abuse, or

hate crimes than everybody else. Cuz I'm

white and I'm straight and I'm fully

able.

What about your children?

What do you do?

I I I I I mean, look, the statistics

suggest that there's going to be a lot

more parents listening to this whose

children have been victims of racist

bullying at school than there are

parents whose children have been victims

of homophobic or disabilist bullying.

But I I I do want to leave all three

avenues open, if I may. I do want to

leave all three avenues open.

Um I want to know

how you look after your child.

when they come home and tell you about

the racist, the homophobic or the

disabilist abuse that they have received

that school. I want to know a little bit

about

what the school did.

Well, as much as you want to tell me

really, but what I really want to know

is is what you do.

when when when your boy comes home and

tells you that they've been abused and

and under racism, of course, we include

of course we include anti-semitism as

well.

But what do you do when when they come

home and tell you and it has to be in

school? I I just want to focus on that

because it's it's um

a narrow interest. What what do we do?

What do you do when your child comes

home and says, "I've been a victim of

racist abuse. I've been bullied for my

sexuality. I've been bullied over my

disability. Mom,

I've been bullied over my ethnicity, my

skin color. Cuz I don't think I'm

detached from reality when I say to you,

"This is worse today than it was 5 years

ago." Well, you tell me because you were

at school 20 years ago and your kids at

school now, and you can tell me whether

it's changing, whether it's getting

worse.

What um

what do you do? How do you look after a

child who is being bullied because of

their race, their sexuality, or their

disability when they come home from

school and tell you that? What do you

what did you do? I just want to know

about the conversation that you had

because I I I listen if it happened to

me tomorrow, which is I think

technically impossible.

I don't know what I'd say.

What happened and how did you handle it?

And if you hit the numbers now, you will

get through. 034560973

is the number that you need. 70,000

English children suspended over racist,

homophobic, and disabilist abuse. If you

want to ring me and tell me that your

kid was one of them, I I'd be absolutely

fascinated to know how you deal with

that. But I I think that's a much bigger

ask than being a um

the parent of a victim of it. What do

you do when they come home and tell you

that? A couple of people saying I forgot

I was a man. I I I I

didn't I said a straight white male. A

straight white male who's not not

disabled. Um, therefore, I am by

definition infinitely less likely to be

a victim of discrimination, abuse, or

any sort of hate crime than pretty much

everybody else in society. Uh, although

you wouldn't know that from listening to

some people or or reading some

newspapers. I just want to know what you

do. And it might seem like a stupid

question to you cuz it's,

you know, baked into your existence.

I've been doing it since since you were

six, James. I've been, but it's not a

stupid question to those of us who've

never had to ask it of ourselves. It's

really interesting.

70,000 English children suspended from

school. And that bar is high, much

higher than it used to be. You got to be

bang out of order to actually get

suspended.

Um over racist, homophobic, and

disabilist abuse. How do you deal with

it? 034560973.

>> James O'Brien on LBC.

2 minutes after 11. Um Jay makes a very

interesting point about that horrible

story uh from Southampton of the

18year-old being uh stabbed to death and

the I mean outwardly rather desperate

attempts to turn it into some sort of

story about race um by most of our media

sadly, not just the extremes of it. But

Jay points out perhaps the police

wouldn't have assumed that there had

been a racist racist attack if there

hadn't been such an enormous surge in

racism in the country. knitting the two

stories together rather more deafly than

I managed to because we're looking at

70,000 English children being suspended

from school over racist, homophobic and

disabilist abuse. Uh and of course a

surge in racism in this country has been

caused in large part by politicians like

honest Bob Genri who instead of

disparaging the police writes Jay should

um perhaps be taking a long hard look in

the mirror. Ah, chicken and egg, I

suppose. But, uh, key question today is

what you do when your child comes home

and tells you that they've been on the

receiving end of

racist, homophobic, or disableist abuse.

Sweetie is in Warick. Sweetie, what

would you like to say?

>> Um, the school that my daughter attends

at, she's in year 10. Um, I don't feel

that they knew how to deal with it when

the first incident happened a couple of

months ago. The girl was um walking

around with one of the teachers, yet my

daughter had been put in isolation for

retaliating. My daughter is Jamaican

Indian, right?

>> Beautiful girl. Um

>> and recently she's had a bottle of loot

poured all over her. She's likened to

Mark Henry, who is a black bodybuilder,

although she doesn't look anything like

him. And she was called the n-word. She

was called

>> I I I've had to dump what you just said

because the words are very much um

>> policed by the broadcasting regulators

and and there is an argument for

context. People won't need much help

guessing what words you used. Well, I'll

tell them you used the you used the N

word that that I could probably mount a

defense of context if I'd known it was

coming and and and if I and I feel bad

that I had to remove the words that you

just said from the program, but the

rules are the rules. So, so your

daughter was called the n-word and the

b- word at the same time by a classmate

at her school and your daughter is about

15 years old and this happened about two

months ago. Is that right?

>> Yes. And what was sad she said at the

time she was actually stood there like

is this actually happening again because

our friends she suffered racism anyway

from the Indian side because they're not

meant to mix with blacks you know and

that's the way it is

>> now so she's a strong person but our

friends are 99.9% white and we can't go

down this road it I actually classify my

white friends as my family um the school

she's addressed the board of governors

she wrote a statement saying a white

board of governors, they can sympathize,

but they really can't know what it feels

like to look in a mirror and be made to

hate your skin. Now, I can't go down

those roads. Um, you know, I've had to

strengthen her, make her know that she's

beautiful. I knew she'd go through the

phase of putting on heavy makeup again,

but the school are also doing

>> that. That's to change her color, the

heavy makeup. It's to I suppose it's

like when women get insecure, we do

suffer from insecurities. Um it's

rubbing off on men as well now. But he's

made the child feel ugly. Now what

they've done in her, they've lit another

fire in her. She's had her head down

since she's come home on Friday. She got

mock exams. My mom has always taught us

that we have to work twice as hard,

which is quite sad. I'm 45. I have never

suffered any form of bullying like this.

But since lockdown and the flags flying,

it is out there in the schools. I I feel

sorry for the teachers. It's hard for

them to deal with

>> and the only way is to re-educate.

>> Of course it is. And and and I'm just

going to take you back if I can that the

because you mentioned it being a

relatively recent.

>> It's been building up for about seven,

eight months, possibly as long as a

year, but she felt that she doesn't want

to report it. She doesn't want to come

across as a victim either.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. Do do the do the school

know that the that that those two words

were used against?

>> Um yes they do. And what did they do

about her form tutor her form tutor um

stood behind her and she actually

questioned whether this other child

should be at the school because he

doesn't turn up to study. He truents a

lot. Now he's been taken out of the

school and allowed to attend just his

GCSE exams and he's not allowed to the

school prom.

>> Is that as a consequence of what he said

to your daughter?

>> Yes. Okay. So this would be one of the

this would be very strongly this would

be one of the 70,000 cases then. It's a

classic example.

>> Yes. My child I mean she's applied to

become head girl, you know. Yes. The

school she's at is a predominantly white

school. I've been told by my son's

football dad that it's a farming area. I

don't care about that. We farm in India.

We could compare notes,

>> you know. And that's why putting these

barriers up is really really sad because

these children I myself having mixed

race children now wonder what sort of

world am I leaving them in. Have I left

them with a mixed identity?

>> You've got a lot going on and it's hard

it's hard for me to sort

>> and you know with teenagers regarding

self harm I have to take the week off. I

want to watch my child. I don't want to

see cuts in her arms and stuff. It's

happening too much.

>> What what do you say to her about the

the specifically the racial abuse that

she has received? How do you what do you

say to her about

>> I know that they're jealous. They're

jealous. Everybody I mean women are

generally like that. They I used to be

really really obese or you want to be

slim. But I'm not going to attack the

slim ones for it. You have to work on

yourself now. You can't work on your

skin color. I'm not having her like

we've got family that bleach their skin.

I'm not having her do that because it

looks awful. Be proud of your skin.

>> Does it work? Does she Does she

>> It does work. I I put it into her and

then I play her reggae music like Tara

Riley Baris Hammond to make the most of