Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> I like that.

>> Absolutely.

>> It's also there's some things that are

so awesome. It's like that's

awesome.

>> I I was I was trying to talk about black

holes to some high school students just

seriously earlier this week and I was I

kept saying, you know, what the f

Yeah. So, I I got nothing to pitch, but

I I uh um I the Shorewood Men's Club, I

was giving a talk there. The Shorewood,

Wisconsin is where I live. The men's

club invited me to give a talk about

astronomy last week, and when I

mentioned I was coming to the show, they

just freaked out. And so, the only thing

I have is my Shorewood Men's Club uh uh

uh water.

>> Well, shout out to the Shorewood Men's

Club. That's awesome. That's so cool

that you give those speeches. I love

your YouTube talks. They are fantastic.

>> Oh, thank you. Wow. I have watched

probably every one you've ever done.

I've I've watched at least I mean how

many have you done? I've done I've

watched at least like 10 of them.

>> Yeah. I mean, so I mean pretty much what

I did at at NASA I did a lot of sort of

the science spokesperson stuff and so so

most of that was you know I I'm more on

the NASA videos. I hosted like launch

events. I haven't done much privately on

YouTube. I'm I'm I'm thinking about

starting some stuff. Oh,

>> you should. I I'll Yeah, I'll work on

that. Okay.

>> 100%.

>> Thank you.

>> 100%. You said so many things that made

me just go, "What?"

>> Ah,

>> like here's a big one that you said. You

were talking about if the size of Earth,

if the Earth was the dot of an eye in a

book in regular print.

>> Yes.

>> That the Milky Way galaxy would be as

large as the Earth itself.

>> Actually, a little bigger. Yeah. So, I

mean, the thing is this is an

interesting thing about science

communication.

You say that if if the if the sun were

the size of a dot of an eye and you got

to remember you can fit a million earths

inside the sun, right? This is a huge

thing. So if that's the size of a dot of

an eye on text, then the galaxy would be

the size of the earth. That's when

people's eyes get big and people respond

to it.

>> So it's not just the earth, it's the the

sun. So if the sun was the dot of an

eye.

>> Yes, that's right. So let's let's make

this clear. So the sun were the size of

the dot of an eye on a page of text. So

you could fit a million earths inside

that dot of an eye, then the Milky Way

galaxy would be bigger than the Earth.

>> Yeah. I think

>> So if the Earth was the dot of an eye,

then how big is the Milky Way galaxy?

Cuz the sun is how many millions Earths

>> volume wise, you could fit over a

million Earths inside the sun. Yeah.

Yeah. The the sun is about 800,000 miles

across. You could fit about 110 Earths

across it. The diameter. We do those

things where you show the the

differences between our sun and

different stars and immense stars and

you go bigger and bigger and bigger and

you you get to the point where you're

like I can't my this is not working. I

can't get I can't process this. It's too

kooky.

>> There there's nobody that can process

it. I mean I mean one one of the the the

really kind of you know the thing about

sort of demystifying scientists is the

idea that our brains somehow work any

differently and like we can visualize

what a lightyear is, right? you know, a

lightyear is about six trillion miles.

That, you know, the distance light

travels in a year. No, we're human

beings. We we get used to using the

terms. We get used to, you know, using

the numbers, but but we've got the same

brain as everybody else. Nobody can

visualize what a galaxy really is. And

you can take pictures of them. You can

say the word galaxy, but people have no

idea what what monsters these are. and

and and then with like with the James

Webb Space Telescope, you know, all of a

sudden you're taking pictures of

billions of them and you know, they're

right in front of your eyes. This is not

something that you can argue about. It's

an image and and you see these these

foggy hazes of of of stars, you know,

basically so many stars you can't see

them individually. And that's real. And

and I mean, it still gives me

goosebumps.

>> That's awesome.

It gives me goosebumps, too. But it's so

cool that it gives it to you and you

actually study it your whole life.

>> Oh, that's that's that's the whole

point. I I mean, you know, working for

NASA was a huge huge honor. And I mean,

all of us there are doing this. I mean,

we were all science fiction fans. We all

love imagination. Um, you know, we

that was the best thing about working at

NASA was was the joy and and and the the

teamwork and the camaraderie and the

people that you're working with that uh

you know, they they think this is the

best thing in the world to do. Well, I

mean, there's a a real problem that we

have where I think that cities and light

pollution have really for, you know,

it's great that we have cities. It's

wonderful. It's wonderful that we have

all this electricity and that we can see

things at night time, but boy, we have

done ourselves a massive disservice by

not being able to see the stars all the

time. And I think people have kind of

lost the wonder of it when you're only

looking at it as images on your phone or

when, you know, the only time you get it

is on vacation. Occasionally, you look

up in the sky. Wow, look at all the

stars here. It's different here. This is

something that everyone should be

absolutely blown away by. At night, you

have a vision of the most spectacular

thing any human being has ever seen

ever. Just the Milky Way galaxy alone.

It's nuts. It's crazy to think that

those are all stars and that you can't

count them. It's insane. There's so many

of them and it's above you every day.

And we're just blas blas. We're just

like so used to it. We're so dismissive

of it. So it doesn't mean anything. It

It's exciting when someone's excited by

it because I'm like more people need to

get the away from the cities and

just go see how crazy this is that we

are flying through space.

>> Yeah,

it is profound. And to be that close, I

mean just looking up, you don't even

need a telescope or a pair of

binoculars. The presence of something so

much larger than you. But I mean, if

you've if you've listened to some of my

my podcasts, and I think you you know

that the big deal for me is that you are

such a part of this. You are such an

intimate, intrinsic part of this. It's

not we're separate from space. You know,

we look up and there's something

separate from us. You know, that's the

story of us up there. you know, the the

only way the universe makes atoms, the

only way that makes, you know, the

chemicals all around us, you know, the

the aluminum, the iron, the oxygen, the

carbon, you know, the phosphorus,

everything that makes me up, you know,

the only thing in the universe that

makes atoms is the interior of a star.

It's the only place where nuclear fusion

puts atoms together. So, so everything

that you are, the the story is up there.

And, you know, so you're you're not

looking at something separate and

distant, you know. I mean astrophysics

is the story of you know the end of your

nose literally I mean I mean we are part

of this beautiful bigger thing

>> that's a weird concept the I mean that's

from that old song you know we are

stardust

>> yeah we're golden to get ourselves back

yeah um that that's real that's what we

are and that's what all life is and that

that's just a very strange thing for

people to wrap their heads around as

we're sort of slowly getting a greater

and greater understanding of the

complexity of the universe itself which

is relatively recent in terms of h human

history. I mean we really didn't know

all all what we just we know now because

the James Webb telescope is so crazy

where they're seeing these new these

galaxies they're confusing like why are

they formed so early.

>> Oh yeah. Oh I I I gave a talk about

those just a few weeks ago. The the red

dots. Yes. And they never let

astronomers name anything. Right. You're

seeing something so dramatic and they

call it the little red dots, right? you

know, or you know, there's a storm on

Jupiter that's three times the size of

the Earth with 400 mph winds, and they

call it, you know, the red spot.

>> How come no one's allowed to name them?

>> Well, naming conventions, uh, well,

they're they're complex. So, so if you

if you discover a comet, you get to know

if you discover an asteroid, you get to

name it. If you discover a comet, the

comet is named after you. But anything

else has to be done by international

committee. And so, you know, they they

because of that, things don't end up

with very interesting names. They all

end up with, you know, catalog numbers,

you you know, basically phone numbers.

>> What do they call that weird hexagon on

Jupiter? Is it a hexagon?

>> Saturn. Hexagon. I think they call that,

you know, the hexagon on Saturn. They

don't even they don't really the

hexagonal storm. It's fantastic. Uh you

could fit about two Earths across that.

And it it it's a it's a hex it's a

hexagon jetream basically. You've got

super fast moving winds around the pole

of Saturn. and and Saturn is so cold,

the gas is so cold that there's almost

no friction in the gas. So unlike here,

you know, the jetream here, there's kind

of this joke. Oh, there's a picture.

Hey, that's fantastic. Um,

>> that's wild.

>> One of my favorite pictures NASA ever

took. If you look at the little dot in

the middle of that, the sort of little

eye of the storm. We actually have a

picture from Cassini where you can see

the sun glinting off of hundreds of mile

high. There you go. It's down in the

bottom there. It's in the bottom in the

middle. Yeah, that picture. One more

over. Yeah, that that that's a picture

uh from the Cassini space mission.

That's a real image.

>> Wow.

>> And that's the eye of that storm. And

and those are, like I said, hundreds of

miles high banks of clouds catching the

sunlight and the poles of Saturn. And

you know, we did that. We we went there.

We flew over that storm.

>> That's crazy. And uh uh and and yeah, I

mean as amazing as the storm is, it's um

it's at least fairly well understood as

a very low temperature jetream. You

know, I mean, you may be familiar here.

People kind of joke about like, you

know, the weather's the same. A week

from now, the weather will be about the

same as it is now. There patterns that

get set up in in the jetream of the

Earth and you you take away all the heat

and all the friction and it forms this

this beautiful storm.

>> What why what is the theories why it

forms a hexagon?

>> It's it's something called a standing

wave. the the the the the jetream

basically sets up a wave inside this

circulation and and I'm I I will admit

I'm not an atmospheric specialist, but

that that's what I know. And and and

that wave kind of kind of makes this

hexagonal shape and and then you cool

everything down without friction and

that's how the whole thing works. They

they have done computer simulations of

very fastm moving jet streams under the

conditions of Saturn and you can get

this sort of shape to set up.

>> Wow.

>> God, it's so fascinating. And it's so

fascinating that we think of that as

being so far away.

>> That's just right in our neighborhood.

>> It's just right there. It's super hard

to get to. Takes a long time, but it's

just right there.

>> Well, we're hoping to launch, when I say

we, NASA's hoping to launch a new

mission to one of the moons of Saturn.

Uh hopefully in in like 2028. It'll take

it something like, you know, six, seven

years to get out to Saturn. But there's

a there's that giant moon of Saturn,

Titan, which has a thick atmosphere.

It's the only place where the air

pressure the air pressure is actually

even a little bit greater than the room

here. And uh um it's it's very cold. You

know, it's it's you know almost close to

300 degrees below zero, but it's got

this thick atmosphere and tons of

organic molecules and evidence of liquid

water below the surface. It's one of the

places that that might be friendly for

life. And so they're they're designing,

have you heard about this? It's called

Dragonfly. It's a it's an octacopter.

It's a big drone. There you go. Perfect.

And so so so Dragonfly is going to be

this big opticopter that we're going to

land on this moon Titan. We've already

landed on this moon once with the

Cassini mission. And it's got this this

really kick-ass uh chemical uh

laboratory inside to look for the

conditions for life, you know, anything,

you know, that we might be able to find

and and obviously sample more than one

site. You actually fly around and and go

to different places. There's rain, there

are oceans, there are rivers. The only

place we know there are open, you know,

great lakesized lakes on Titan.

>> Wow. Wow.

>> But it's so cold that it's not uh liquid

water. It's actually liquid natural gas.

Liquid methane and ethane. Yeah. Yeah.

And again, you know, the the

we we've already landed there. We

actually sent a probe there as part of

the Cassini mission to land on Titan. I

mean, it's just badass that you know

that that we humans have been there.

That that's a that's an artist

conception, but that's what it would

look like. You know, we we sent a probe

there. You know, it took a bunch of

readings and then and eventually froze

to death. But uh but but some of the

readings that it took were intriguing

about the possibility of life on Titan.

>> Didn't the Russians land something on

Venus?

>> Yeah. Well, more than once. Yeah.

They're the the Soviet Union is the only

nation you former Soviet Union now that

ever landed on Venus. And landing on

Venus is way hard.

>> They got crazy pictures, too.

>> The surface temperature is about a

thousand degrees and the air pressure is

similar to being about a mile below the

ocean.

>> That's a photo.

>> Yeah, it's a photo. Yep. That's real.

And it's a photo taken in a thousand

degree temperature.

>> Yes. Didn't last long. But uh um

everything is crushed flat. I mean the

the landscape is just crushed flat by

that you know huge pressure. Uh you know

this incredible dense atmosphere. The

clouds are sulfuric acid. That's why it

looks yellow. That's real. Uh you know

sulfuric acid clouds. I mean it is like

you know classic vision of hell. It it's

it's it's heavy and deep and uh and

dense and sulfuric acid. What's so

interesting too that our understanding

of planets in terms of like just what's

in our solar system, they're all

different. They vary so much and this is

just all we know about the known

universe in terms of planets. Is it

possible that there could be some

planets out there that are set up

completely different than the planets in

our solar system?

>> Oh, absolutely. Um, one of my favorite

websites, just for fun, I mean, so the

um, it changes every day how many

planets around other stars we know

about, we call them exoplanets, exterior

planets. Um, I think we're up to about

5,000 that we know of.

>> When did we start noticing them?

>> Um, so this was at least detecting them.

>> Yeah. Yeah. This is something I was been

involved with ever since I was in

college. When when I was in college, my

uh my research adviser was a man named

David Leam and he was trying to to find

the first evidence. I mean, we we

figured other stars have planets. I

mean, it can't be just us, but but

they're hard to see. They're tiny.

They're dark. I mean, compared to a

star, right? Right? I mean, planets

don't glow themselves, right? So, they

just reflect starlight. I mean, we we

literally said it was like trying to see

a firefly around a search light from 200

miles away, right? How would you do it?

And uh I mean, now we're actually

getting so good at it, we find more

every every week, almost every day. I

mean, pretty soon it's going to be I I

think thousands of new planets every

single year. And um and

>> do you have actual images? So, for the

most part, we don't have images, but

that doesn't mean we don't have really

cool uh uh observations, including the

chemistry of their atmospheres. This is

really amazing to me. So, they're so

tiny, it's hard to actually get a pixel.

They're smaller than a pixel. But when

these things pass in front of their

star, right? So, there's a star and they

they they pass in front of it. So,

you're looking at this thing pass in

front of the star, it makes a tiny

little solar eclipse. It goes by, it

blocks a little bit of the star light.

And we find them that way. We find the

stars twinkling as little planets go

around them again and again. They have

to come back three times for us to say

it's a planet. Otherwise, it could be a

spot on the star or something else. And

um the the amazing thing is that the

starlight will shine through the

atmosphere of that planet and we can

actually we can actually probe the

chemistry of the atmosphere. So we find

planets that have you know they're the

size of the earth about the temperature

of the earth. They have evidence of

water vapor, carbon dioxide, oxygen. And

then uh last year there was this

fantastic controversial discovery. I

mean it's it's very real. We need to

follow it up. Um we think we're starting

to see the evidence of organic

molecules. It's it's it's it's not, you

know, a very strong signal yet. And this

this this was this was a press release

from the James Webb Space Telescope. And

there were some scientists that wondered

if these could be organic molecules that

that that might someday be traceable

even to the presence of life. they they

they resembled something that plankton

might might give off on an ocean world.

And then of course I the rest of the

scientists said the data is not good

enough yet. We need much better

observations before you can say that.

You know, we could maybe believe it's an

organic carbon-based molecule, but we

don't know which one it is yet. So, you

know, I mean, stay tuned. I mean, I

would never have thought the first

evidence of life outside the Earth, like

a really hard chemical scientific

evidence, would be on a planet around

another star. I thought we maybe find on

Mars or on some of the moons of Jupiter

and Saturn. But now with the James Webb

Space Telescope and the telescopes that

will come afterwards, we might be able

to actually, you know, get get enough of

a sense of the atmosphere of these

planets to start looking for life

science. Yeah.

>> So the sun, the star is passing light

through this little tiny thing that's

smaller than a pixel and through the

atmosphere where the light passes

through. What are we using to detect

that? It's a technique called

spectroscopy and it's a really really

powerful thing. I This is what most

scientists do. As as beautiful as images

are of a gorgeous galaxy or a star.

That's not really what we do. We look at

these little squiggly lines. We get very

excited. We we let the light from the

star pass through um a grading that that

actually draws it into a rainbow. You

take takes that white light. You've seen

pictures of like prism, you know, dark

side of the moon, Pink Floyd. You know,

white light goes in, rainbow comes out.

If you measure really really carefully

how much light is coming in every color,

you can tell astounding things. You you

can tell how hot the star is, how fast

it's rotating, uh in some cases, how far

away a galaxy is. That's how we measure

how far away they are from us in space.

And you can measure the chemistry

molecule by molecule. You can tell

exactly what atoms and molecules are in

that object. Here we go. Look at that.

So what you're amazing person by the way

that that's incredible. Thank you so

much. Um

>> every every every element carbon,

nitrogen, oxygen has a fingerprint in

the rainbow and it's like you know it's

that there's nothing else like it. You

know that you see carbon and nitrogen if

you see these colors of the rainbow

shining at that particular light. And

it's not just simple things like carbon,

nitrogen, oxygen, but it's it's water

vapor, carbon dioxide, um organic

molecules. Everybody has their

fingerprint in the rainbow. And so when

when the starlight shines through the

atmosphere, there you go. That's how we

tell what these things are made of. You

know, this is a dying star. This is

actually in the Karina Nebula. And uh

the most the one of the most luminous

stars there is. And we we pass the light

through a rainbow. And then looking

really really carefully at how much

light comes at every color, you can pick

apart exactly what it's made of.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. Did Did you know that you know

helium you know the element helium,

right? You you may be familiar that the

the Greek the Greek sun god's name is

helios. Helium is an element we

discovered on the sun before we ever

knew it was here in in in the the turn

of the last century in the late 1800s

when they were passing sunlight through

a prism and they were looking at all

these patterns of light. There was one

chemical that we'd never seen before

here. And so they named it after the

sun, helium. It was on the sun but not

here. We we never knew the helium was

here. That was found later. It was later

we found it, you know, in like, you

know, a natural gas, you know,

radioactive decay. Helium is such a

light gas. It just leaves the Earth. It

just doesn't stick around. And so, you

know, helium, we saw this this pattern

of colors in the sun's light. We were

like, what what the hell is that? And it

turned out to be a new element we'd

never found before.

>> What year was that?

>> We should look this up. I don't know

exactly, but if we Google what year was

helium found, um, I'm sure we can find

it. Well, I mean, I've been thinking

about helium balloons and people who,

you know, suck helium, make their voice

go really high.

>> We didn't even know about helium until

>> 1868. There we go.

>> That's nuts. So, they figured out that

there was helium in the sun in 1868.

>> Long before we ever identified it on

this planet.

>> That is so nuts.

>> Yeah. Just think what's out there. We

didn't even know about helium. It's not

just that it's what's out there, but

that there's people out there that can

figure out how to do that. In 1868,

shout out to Pierre Jeansen,

uh, a French astronomer who figured it

out.

>> When you when you think about, you know,

I know that one thing you you you love

is the idea of uh, you know, Einstein

and time being different and all that.

>> You know, they figured all of this out

around like like 1908. It was more than

a hundred years ago. And you know, we

don't really even have a better thing

yet. You know, I mean, they they they

figured out that time isn't the way that

we experience it just by really simple,

brilliant thought processes,

observations and some years ago, 100 a

little more than 120 years ago. Yeah.

Incredible.

>> The idea that the faster you go, the

slower time is is so hard to wrap one's

head around. And one of the things that

I heard you talking about, you were

talking about GPS satellites

>> and you were saying that GPS satellites

because they're going about what are

they going like 20,000 miles an hour or

something like that. So actually if we

want to break this down a little bit

there there are a couple different

effects about time and and one of the

things that that you know NASA does is

we you know calibrates the GPS

satellites and the signal coming and and

you wouldn't I mean I think I heard that

I mean within within a day if we didn't

take into account the time difference

these things are in that we we'd be

about six miles off I mean in a in a

single day.

>> That's crazy.

>> Oh yeah it's it's a big deal.

>> That's so crazy.

>> Yeah.

>> That's so crazy. And that's just above

us.

>> Time really is something. I mean, this

this is not a theory. Time time is is is

variable depending on how fast you're

going and also how far off the Earth's

surface you are or how I should say how

far away from a big gravity body you

are. In the case of the GPS satellites,

there's there's there's two things going

on. And it's it's it's kind of fun

because it's actually the reverse for

the astronauts. So, let's want to break

this down. This is really fun. Okay.

We have clocks that are so accurate that

if you move about two feet above where

you if we had a clock on this desk and

then if we moved it up about two feet,

we could actually detect time flowing

differently because you're just that far

away from the Earth's gravity. Just two

feet. Your head and the and your feet,

we spend most of our lives say standing

up are actually going through time at

slightly different rates. If the farther

away you are from a gravitational

source, I mean you you probably like

movies like Interstellar, right? With

with you know Matthew McConna,

>> remember the big black hole? And the

closer they get to the big black hole,

the slower time goes.

>> That's not a theory. That's something we

can actually measure with clocks. And a

black hole has so much gravity it does

it a lot more dramatically. But it's

happening right in this room. Seriously,

your head is in a different time frame

than your feet right now.

>> That's nuts.

>> Yeah. And you and I mean it's

measurable. you you you need extremely

accurate clocks. But in the case of the

GPS satellites, the GPS satellites are

in what we call a medium orbit. They're

not as far away as the geostationary

satellites, but they're they're not

actually going that fast. They're only

going about 9,000 m an hour around the

Earth. The the astronauts in the space

station, by the way, are going much

faster. They're they're going more like

let's say approximately 20,000 mph. So,

the GPS satellites are going a little

slower and and Yeah. Okay. 8,000 m an

hour is is a lot. And that does slow

your time down, but the bigger effect

for GPS satellites is how far away from

the Earth they are.

>> Wow.

>> We're actually going slower in time than

they are because we're closer to the

Earth's gravity. And they're so far

away, they're actually going a little

faster than we are in time. Now, they're

also slowed down by their fast velocity.

The the faster you go, the slower your

time goes. But people don't realize

there's another factor and that's how

far away you are from gravity. For the

astronauts, the astronauts are closer to

the Earth, right? So they're actually

not so far away as the satellites and

they're going much faster. So for the

astronauts, it's the it's the motion.

It's the time dilation from the motion

that's a bigger effect. Uh if you are on

the space station for a year, you come

back about 1/100th of a second younger

than you should be. And uh you know,

obviously that's not a big deal, but

it's easily measurable.

>> Wow.

>> And in the case of the satellites, you

wouldn't get the right location. The

data wouldn't be right unless we take

into account two things. How fast

they're going. The closer to the speed

of light you go, the slower time goes.

But also how far away from the

gravitational pull of the Earth they

are. The the closer you are into

gravity, the slower time goes.

>> I think the weirdest thing that I've

ever heard anybody say is that all time

exists currently.

>> That's Einstein. I mean, that goes back

that goes back 120 years.

>> That's such a bizarre thought. We don't

know if it's true but but it's I mean

Einstein really thought there wasn't

much of a way around it because he said

okay well if everything is going at

different velocities compared to

everything else right I mean it's a

great question a kid can ask how fast am

I going through space you know and the

earth you if you're on the equator of

the earth that goes around at about uh u

you know about about 1 th000 miles an

hour you know and then you know we go we

go around the sun at about 67,000 miles

an hour in our orbit the sun's going

around a galaxy about half a million

miles an hour around the galaxy. The

galaxy is going towards a galactic

cluster at more than a million miles an

hour.

But you know how fast are we going

really? And the the only thing you can

measure is how fast are you going

relative to something else? There's no

answer.

You know, how fast am I going? Well, I

mean, am I still or am I actually

traveling close to the speed of light

right now? I don't know. So, so Einstein

said the only way he could really think

about how that would work is if the

universe was just one big thing. You

know, all of time and space exists in a

big whole thing. There's only one now.

Einstein famously said, "The past,

present, and future are, you know,

persistently annoying illusions."

Now, again, do we know this to be true?

At the moment, we don't have any better

physics. And and I doubt the physics

will get any less weird than that.

But yeah, I mean I mean that's sort of

the way modern physics thinks the

universe may be is is a big whole thing

that started from beginning to end and

is all nowish.

>> But if that's the case, so subjectively

we can measure

things. We can measure time but but what

are we measuring

if it's I mean are are we making

artificial time constraints? Are we are

we doing it oursel? When we're when we

create a clock, we create a watch

>> and the watch is, you know, 24 hours a

day it's running. What is it what is it

measuring?

>> Yeah.

>> Right.

>> That is exactly the question Albert

Einstein asked. That that is that is a

deep excellent question.

And and so that was the problem. I mean

in a famous thought experiment, Einstein

made a clock by setting up two mirrors

and having light bounce between the two

mirrors. And that was the tick of the

clock. Tick tick tick tick tick. And and

the problem was that, you know, that's

how he started thinking about the speed

of light is that if you had this thing

in a spaceship that was going a huge

fraction of the speed of light, then a

person standing watching it go by would

actually watch the light kind of trace

out a pattern like this because you it's

it's it's actually ticking between the

mirrors, but the mirrors are moving

along. And so you see the light make

this sort of bouncy movement. And that

means it's actually traveled farther

than the person on the ground who thinks

that the mirrors are just sort of the

the light is making just a straight up

and down line from mirror to mirror.

That that question that you asked is

what completely

I mean it completely revolutionized

physics. Everything fell apart when

people said, "How do you even measure

time? What does it mean to make a clock?

What are we measuring?"

>> I still don't understand what we're

measuring.

>> Oh lord. Yeah.

>> I I get it. I mean we I don't know if I

have an answer for you. I don't think

anybody does. But but but here's the

deal. So the the clock in Einstein's

experiment, so the the clock has, you

know, two mirrors and there's light

bouncing between it and then that's the

distance that it travels in one tick,

>> right?

But now you put this mirror, you put

that clock on a spaceship and the

spaceship's going really fast. And as it

goes by, you see that that that clock as

as it streams by you really fast, you

see the light make this motion.

And and this line is actually longer

than that line. This this line if you

measure it, that's actually a longer

line that I drew than the the original

one between just the two mirrors because

now it's at an angle.

And this is what made Einstein say time

has to change. If anything moves, the

tick of a clock changes. What? However

you measure time, whatever time is,

whether you measure it with a bouncing

clock or whether you measure it with a

vibrating atom like we do in the Bureau

of Standards, or whether you measure

with a spring that's slowly unwinding in

a wristwatch.

Anything you can do to measure one

moment to the next changes when motion

is involved. There's no way to get

around it. It's not just the

measurement. It's time itself is

changing. any way we have to measure

this thing we call time. And I have to

tell you, Joe, I I don't think we have

an answer to what time is. What are we

measuring?

I think I think right there, I think

you're asking for the next revolution in

physics that we don't have yet. I really

mean that. So when we're measuring time

currently, like when I w look down on my

watch, I'm measuring time in this

particular space, like where I am, what

altitude I'm at, how fast I'm moving,

>> and the watch just does a reasonable job

of calculating all that.

>> And that's and that's you. I mean,

that's what you see here, sitting still

with your watch looking at it.

>> If someone's flying by at close to the

speed of light,

>> they won't see you measure time the same

way. Yeah. But you said something else

too that freaked me out that

that if you traveled at the speed of

light, the the problem would be you

would have infinite mass.

>> Well, anything with mass. Yeah. Yeah.

That's the thing.

>> So, if a person was in a spaceship and

it traveled the speed of light, that

spaceship would have infinite mass.

>> It's basically it's what makes

accelerating up to the speed of light

impossible. That anything with mass

can't travel at the speed of light. I

mean the the equations blow up. But what

does infinite mass mean? Do you have

more mass than the whole universe? What

the hell is that? As you approach the

speed of light, if you have mass, it

takes more and more energy to accelerate

you even just a little bit more. So you

never get to the speed of light. You

know, you're speed you're going 99.9%

the speed of light. Okay, I want to go a

little faster. It it takes more and more

energy each little tiny step you make.

So it's it basically you never get to

the speed of light. It it takes an

infinite amount of energy.

So, you know, when it comes to things

like interstellar travel, I I I don't

think we're ever going to take a

spaceship and accelerate it to the speed

of light, I I I mean, I we might get

very close. There are particles in space

that do have mass, like nutrinos, tiny

little bits of mass. They travel very

close to the speed of light, but they

don't travel at the speed of light.

But to me, you know, I I think that the

the the idea of traveling interstellar

distances or even intergalactic

distances, you know, the thing that

starts to really get me is the question

of this this what is space and what is

time at all? Quantum entanglement,

>> right? Glad you brought that up.

>> Oh, yeah.

Uh I I I'm going to say I I hope your

listeners I I I I don't want to get I

don't want to I I want people to come

along with us.

>> Oh, they're coming along.

>> Yeah. I I don't want to say things that

sound so stupid. They're like, you know,

why are they saying this? So, please

stop me if we need some more background.

>> This does not sound stupid in any way,

shape, or form,

>> but the idea of quantum entanglement, we

should explain that to people.

>> Yeah.

>> And what it essentially means is that

things are entangled, they're connected

at regardless of the distance.

>> Yes.

>> And it could be an immeasurable amount

of distance like

>> any distance

>> like

>> Yeah. Literally the beginning of the

universe distance like 13.8 8 billion

life years away distance.

>> You're entangled with that.

>> It's amazing because once again, let's

go back to the idea that this this is a

real experimental fact, right? I mean, a

lot of times this this crazy stuff that,

you know, scientists will will say this

stuff and and people hear it, you know,

for the first time and they say, "Well,

that that sounds like idiotic. That

sounds stupid. Why where did they get

that from?" And the the idea that time

changes is now it's one of the most

commonly proven facts every day. Like I

said, we needed to calibrate the GPS

satellites. It's easy to measure.

Quantum entanglement was something that

that even Albert Einstein 100 years ago

um he understood that quantum mechanics

was pointing that way, but he really

didn't like it. He called it he called

it spooky action at a distance. He hated

it because he realized that quantum

mechan mechanics had this implication

that that if things could somehow be

connected quantum mechanically, you

could take them any distance away from

each other and they would somehow be

able to respond to each other

instantaneously with with no time

difference.

And you know, he didn't think that would

ever actually happen. And then back in

the in the in the mid 1990s, we started

to do experiments with atoms and we

found out that it was real. That uh uh

it it can start off pretty simply. you

you have two atoms that are in an orbit

around you know so an atom has a nucleus

of protons and electrons in the middle

sorry an atom has a nucleus of protons

and neutrons the electrons are flying

around in orbits around the uh the atom

um two electrons can be in the same

orbit only if they are spinning in

different directions they they have an

an angular momentum it's called spin and

the only way these two electrons can fit

in that orbit together is if they're

spinning one is spinning in an upward

direction one's say spinning in in a

downward ction. Hate the broken finger.

Um, so if if you take these electrons

out of the atom and you can do that, you

know that they're in different spins

because they had to be to be in that

that orbit together. So now you separate

them. You can separate them by any

distance you want. You can separate them

by centimeters in a laboratory. The

Chinese have done this up to the space

station that they run in back. You you

could conceivably do it to another

galaxy. If you take those electrons and

you separate them, you know that they

were spinning in opposite directions. So

if you take an electric field and you

change the spin of one, the other one

immediately changes in response

>> regardless of the distance.

>> Regardless of the distance and we know

this to be true. We've done this. And

the amazing thing is the universe is

saying these two things are the same

quantum mechanical system. They're

basically the same object. They're

connected to each other. They're

entangled together. And it doesn't

matter. Space and time don't matter. You

can you separate them in space any

distance you want. How does that work?

The universe says the space and time

between them doesn't matter. They're the

same system.

To me, that's the real intriguing thing

about you. Could a civilization learn

how to harness that, you know, you're

not really even having to worry about

traveling from one part to another. Have

did you watch the um uh the threebody

problem show? Yeah. So, so you have

these things called sons, right? and

sofans are entangled to this alien

civilization and they can respond

instantaneously because they're

entangled. Yes. I mean I mean that's

fantastic science and as far as I can

tell that that could be theoretically

possible. Yeah.

>> Well, that's what's bonkers is that we

are made out of all this stuff that's

entangled.

>> What's it entangled to? Is it entangled

to stuff inside a black hole right now?

Is it entangled to stuff that is on the

other side of the universe from us? If

the big bang had all of this stuff in a

small volume at once, are we entangled

to everything in some way?

>> Seriously.

>> Seriously.

>> I mean I mean are is a part of me

quantum mechanically right now in the

Andromeda galaxy? Yeah, actually that

would be the implication.

I mean talk about

I don't think we understand yet what

reality is. I really don't. What does it

mean? Are we all somehow the same

particle entangled to each other? You

know, are we connected to everything

all at once?

I mean, that could be where physics is

taking us now.

>> That's bananas. It's very difficult to

think about when you you think you're a

person in Austin. My feet are on the

ground. Yeah.

>> Here I am touching this desk. I'm going

to get in my car later and go get

something to eat.

>> No kidding. You got to feed the cat,

right?

>> Yeah. But that's not really what's going

on.

It's way more complex, way bigger. And

you were speculating that that could be

how some advanced, super advanced

intelligent life form travels.

>> It's always been more compelling to me

than the idea of taking a spaceship and

traveling somewhere.

>> That seems super crude.

>> Yeah.

>> That seems like the idea of making a

horse fly.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I you know we we we talked

about that movie Interstellar because

there were a lot of good teaching

moments in that movie for for a

physicist. You know the idea that time

really does slow down close to a black

hole. And again we we observe this when

we observe things orbiting close to a

black hole. You can tell that that

happens and the idea that this advanced

civilization that we never actually see

in the movie somehow communicates

through basically space and time itself

through gravity. Um, you know, that's

how Matthew McConna is able to even like

go back, you know, in time and space to

help his daughter solve, you know,

gravity and all that. You know, I was

like I was like, I wonder I wonder if

that's really more what it be like, you

know, advanced civilizations.

I mean, you got to think, right? I mean,

you look around the earth and there are,

you know, things like grasshoppers and

hamsters that are fantastic, incredibly

complex beings, but I mean, you try to

teach them quantum mechanics or ask them

to, you know, crochet a blanket or

whatever. They they don't have the

capacity. And you you've got to think

that there's the similar jump where I

mean, we don't even know the right

questions to ask that sort of a

civilization,

>> you know? I mean, can they see the

universe as a whole thing? Do they know

that they're connected to everything?

And can they somehow use that to travel?

You know, maybe.

>> Maybe. And if you just extrapolate, if

you just think about where we've gone

from primitive man to what we're

currently experiencing, and you take

that thousands of years, millions of

years, whatever it is,

>> yeah,

>> you you keep going. And as long as

civilization

gets rid of war and figures out a way to

not die of disease and natural disaster,

you could potentially continue this

process of technological innovation for

millions of years. And you would imagine

that it would go exponentially

greater and greater in its ability to do

things.

>> Yeah. and its ability to

not just

not even things that we can imagine like

we have a crude understanding amazing

understanding of the universe but crude

in comparison

to what's potentially out there. Well,

we could pot we could potentially be

observing

in a physical way every planet on every

star one day.

But we're not we can't even think of

that as being a possibility now. But but

what we're doing right now is insane to

people that lived in the 1400s.

>> Yeah.

If

>> you showed someone from the 1400s a

nuclear power plant, they'd be like,

"What the are you guys doing?"

Like, "What is this?" See, if you showed

them a nuclear detonate, if you showed

them FaceTime on a phone, they'd be

like, "This is insanity."

>> I just got on a little metal tube and

came here from Milwaukee and I'll fly

back tonight. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

>> And we're just accustomed to it. It it

it becomes normal. And it would become

normal as technology increased further

and further and further. And this idea

that the entire universe would be

accessible is just bananas. Have you

ever wondered if maybe the real followon

to humanity someday will be some form of

AI?

>> I think so.

>> I mean, yeah. I I mean, I do wonder if

the human brain is just kind of limited.

I mean, if you if you say there are

multiple dimensions and time is

something that changes. I mean, I just

said that, you know, I mean, scientists

are no better than anybody else at

comprehending a big number or a big

amount of space. We just kind of get

used to it, you You know, I mean, I

mean, will we have a creature someday

that we've created, an AI that then all

of a sudden can comprehend these things,

you know, is is is that really the real

evolutionary path of humanity?

>> Yeah, I think so. I think it's just a

completely different kind of life and

that we're thinking of it as artificial.

I don't think it's artificial at all. I

think it's a life. It's a just a

different kind of life that we're

>> It's an earthling. I mean, I mean,

seriously, it's our children. We we

created this.

>> Yeah. I always describe ourselves as

like we're an electronic caterpillar and

we're making a cocoon. We don't even

know why we're doing it because it's

just what we do. I mean, the thing about

human beings is we've always been

completely fascinated with innovation.

I've always said that if you looked at

us objectively for some like what does

this species do? Oh, they make better

things. They keep making better things.

They're never satisfied with the things.

Bees made the beehive and like I think

we got it, boys. This is it.

we're not satisfied at all. And so if

you just kept going with that, like

where does it go? Well, it has to go to

life. It has to go to some sort of a

human created new kind of life form that

exists out of the components of the

earth, but instead of being born out of

evolution and out of, you know, natural

mutation and natural selection, it's

random mutation. It's made out of us. We

made it and it'll probably make better

versions of it. And that would be the

new life. And that's how you get over

all the biological hurdles that we have.

You think about like the things that

trouble us, war and crime and violence

and all these different things that are

a real problem with the human race.

Well, that all goes away when you stop

being human.

And if we really are entangled with

everything, we that will be us.

It'll just be us in a completely

different realm.

>> Yeah. I I I mean I I do like this idea

that what we call AIs now isn't

something separate. I mean they are our

children. It is an Earthling. It is

something we've created.

The the question I've often wondered is,

you know, sometimes I think sometimes we

lack imagination about what might be

possible. I've always enjoyed science

fiction where the AI also learn about

about love or about the arts or about

creativity. I mean whether you want to

go with like the new battlest star

galactica or whether you want to go with

um uh a pretty profound experience I had

with a friend of mine who's an author

who has colear implants and you know he

realizes that he doesn't hear like a

human you he mean the colear implants

don't replicate perfectly what it means

to hear the way our ears do they bypass

our ears they they wire directly into

his brain and stimulate the experience

of sound

and so he's hearing in his words like a

cyborg

This is Michael Chorus, a wonderful man

that did some essays about this. And and

he he talked about how much um emotional

response he has to music now, something

he could never experience. How being a a

cyborg, quote unquote, you know, and

experiencing something in a non-human

way has added joy and depth and and

passion,

you know? Are are we so sure that

technology makes us more and more, you

know, kind of 1950s robot-like, or could

it take us into new experiences of being

connected with each other, you know, new

ways of loving each other, new ways of

understanding things? I mean, I mean,

does it have to be all bad? This

>> Well, all of our differences fall apart

if we realize we're all one thing.

>> Yeah.

>> If we realize we're all one thing, then

all of our

monopoly of resources, all that, all

that stuff goes away. If we realize

we're all one thing. I mean, part of the

problem with human beings is we're very

selfish.

>> And the reason why we're very selfish is

because that's how you had to survive.

If you wanted your genes to if you

wanted to to survive and you wanted your

genes to be passed on to the next

generation, you had to be selfish

because other people were being selfish

too. And that's the game the humans were

playing. If we get to a point of

universal telepathy,

like universal telepathy with a

universal language where all human

beings are sharing thoughts, there are

no secrets. We are all one thing.

Everyone's terrified of that. People

love secrets. Love I don't want people

listening to my phone. I don't want

people Well, I don't I don't either

because it would be people doing that

and those people have their own ulterior

motives and it's gross that they would

have control. They'd know your emails.

But what if there's no secrets? It's not

possible because our understanding of

each other is now complete.

>> Mhm.

>> It's like we read each other's minds in

a sense, but it's much more complex than

that. and much more much more in depth

like you feel what that person feels.

You are that person and we're all one

thing that that could be possible

through technology. And this is this is

where I have hope where a lot of people

are like very fatalist with AI and you

know they look at it in this dystopian

sense of these oligarchs these technical

oligarch technology oligarchs going to

be controlling off through AI and

they're going to have access to it and

power. I don't know if anybody's gonna

control it. And I have a feeling it's

going to be kind of like the internet in

a way where I don't think they really

thought what the internet was going to

be. I think they had this understanding

of being able to exchange information

through universities and I think it got

to a point where I if they knew what the

internet would be today and how little

control they would have over the

population and narratives and I think

they probably would have shut it down a

long time ago. I have a feeling that's

going to be the same way with AI and

especially AI as it integrates with us,

which I think is the only way that the

human species really truly survives.

Otherwise, we're just this archaic

biological entity living in this new

world of this ultra superior life form.

But if we integrate with that thing

through wearables, implants,

engineering, if we figure out a way, and

this is going to sound terrible to

anybody who loves being a person, but

all the flaws of being a primate,

there's a lot of these biological reward

systems that are built into us that are

really problematic for progress. I mean,

the reason why are we at war right now?

Well, because there's people with

certain ideologies and there's resources

and there's people that are making money

from their military contractors and

there's politicians that are beholden to

certain interests and then what are we

doing? We're doing the same stupid

that we've been doing for thousands and

thousands of years. Well, how do we get

past that? We get past that by stop

being people.

>> I think you may be right. I mean, again,

that that future is is it is frightening

in some ways, but I I'm I'm I'm more

interested in the imagination. I mean,

instead of just the dystopia, what could

this mean,

>> right?

>> You know, I mean, I mean, how much more,

like we said, I mean, when we were

little tribal groups, you know, the

little wars we had, the skirmishes

didn't really hurt the planet as a

whole. I mean, now we're getting there

so many people and we're still having

these little tribal skirmishes and and

now we're in danger of of, you know,

massive destruction. I mean, we can't

just keep going this way. I mean, it's

it's it's not it's not survivable.

>> It's not. So I mean you know could AI

help us you know tap into some kind of

group consciousness. I mean when we we

were talking about Einstein's idea that

the universe may all be this one big

thing you and this is pure metaphysics

pure conjecture but you know even when I

was a little kid and I heard that I

wondered well you know if all time and

space happens at once is there need for

more than one consciousness even are we

all are we all just looking out of you

know one consciousness looking out of

out of everybody's eyes simultaneously

and not just humans but everything in

the universe you know it's it's a

spectacular idea that you know If there

is a moment, if the universe is just one

big thing, you know, we are part now,

even now, of

beings we have no names for, you know,

super advanced beings that have figured

all of this out and can span the

universe with their consciousness, you

know, that's part of the eyes, too.

That's another part of this

consciousness that we're part of right

now. If if if there's one instant,

you know, it it reminds me of some of

the tenants of, you know, of Buddhism.

There there might be these perfectly

enlightened beings, bodhisattvas, and we

are past lives of them. We're all

existing at once.

You know, it's a it's a fantastically

beautiful idea.

>> It is a beautiful idea. And our survival

instincts are attuned to maintaining

what we are. There there's this thing,

well, I don't want to lose being a

person. But I guarantee you if you went

to an australythecus

and you could somehow communicate to

them, listen, you're going to change and

you're going to be this thing that gets

sick seven times a year and maybe you're

obese and maybe you have a problem with

cigarettes and you know, maybe you drink

too much and you like to gamble and

you're going to your life up here

and there, but you're going to have a

cell phone and you're going to live in a

city and you're going to be breathing

break dust every day and you, you know,

your doctor's going to give you a bunch

of stuff you don't really need because

he's trying to make money.

The Australians are probably like, "Fuck

that.

I know what I'm doing here. Sounds much

better."

>> Yeah. I I know where the food is. Like,

get out of here. I don't want any part

of that. And I think that's just part of

survival instincts. Survival instincts

don't want you to radically change into

something completely different with its

own new set of problems.

>> You you want to stay. You want to

maintain. You know, country boy can't

survive. Keep me in the woods. You know

what I mean?

people have this like natural

inclination to keep things simple cuz

they understand them.

>> But I think that's not possible anymore.

And I think we're going to just have to

let it go. Just let that idea go and

relax and uh accept whatever this new

thing is. And I think we're very very

fortunate to be born at this time while

we're experiencing it as regardless of

the outcome. This is a very unique time.

like one of the weirdest times I think

objectively in human history

>> and we're very fortunate to be

experiencing it.

>> I mean you and I are are roughly the

same age and you know I I I think that I

mean for for me having this what they

now kind of you know call the fearal

childhood right where I was unplugged

and and there were you know there were

there were vast stretches of time even

as a small child where I was on my own

you know in the neighborhood stuff and

and I loved it. I mean, I remember going

to, you know, a YMCA camp when I was 11

years old and, you know, everybody had

to show up at breakfast and then there

was an activity time and everybody had

to show up at lunch. But what you did

between that time, you were on your own.

I mean, as an 11-year-old kid, you know,

in the woods, there were activities, you

could do some archery, there was a

rifle, there was craft shop, there was

swimming, and you had to check in at

certain times. But sometimes I just went

and sat in the woods, you know, 11 years

old. I mean, can you imagine?

>> I had this similar experience in the Boy

Scouts.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And you know the thing was

you know so so you and I had this

experience of living unplugged and and

sort of the the idea of of of a quiet

mind and imagination

and but we also saw this tremendous

change and this connectivity which I

love. I mean I also love having the

internet and this my cell phones and all

of that but but but this is a real

change in human civilization that we

went through personally

and I agree with you. I I feel a

tremendous sense of gratitude for for

both ends of my life.

>> Right. We could have been born in the

1500s were the 1500s to the 1600s.

>> Not that much changed. I mean

>> for a lot of people. Yeah.

>> Sure. I mean politically things changed,

leaders got overthrown, but as far as

like the way you interfaced with the the

world

>> pretty much the same way. You wrote

stuff down with feathers.

>> Yeah.

you know, and and gratitude and like you

said, I mean, maybe instead of all the

dystopia and all the worry and all the

panic right now, you know, going forward

with gratitude.

>> Yeah. Well, I think the unknown gives

people a tremendous amount of anxiety.

>> Sure.

>> For a good reason, you know, I mean, the

unknown could potentially be dangerous

and scary and terrifying or awesome and

you really don't know and so you're

like, what is it going to be? And

there's all these college kids that are

really freaking out because they're

they're went into debt. They're getting

these co college degrees. They're

leaving with this burden, this financial

burden that they can never get rid of.

And on top of that, they have a degree

that might not be worth anything because

AI might completely eradicate their

field. That's a real concern. And so

they they I think kids today that are

graduating from college and graduating

from high school, they probably have the

most amount of anxiety about the future.

That and then there's people that, you

know, they haven't saved any money up.

They don't even know if money is going

to be valuable in the future. Like what

does it even mean? Are are we gonna

abandon all money? Like what what is

what is it going to mean when AI

completely controls all of the

resources, all of the government, all of

everything, all transportation, and you

don't have to do your job anymore? You

just get some funds from the government

where you can buy food. Like this is

what people are talking about. Like this

is a potential, you know, 100 years from

now future.

>> Very seriously so. Yes. Absolutely.

which is terrifying to people that are

thinking, hey, you know, I want to do

what my dad did and what my mom did and

I want to go out there in the world and

I want to find something that I'm

passionate about and make it a career

and like maybe that's not possible. That

to kids right now, I think is really

freaking them out because the adults,

the people like us that are supposed to

be the ones that say, "Well, let me tell

you how it all works. You're going to be

fine. This is what you have to do." And

if you do that and just cross your eyes

and dot your tees, you're going to be

okay, Bob. But maybe you're not going to

be okay. Like maybe we don't know

because that's the reality. The reality

is you and I, the adults, have no idea

what this world's going to look like in

50 years. And these poor kids are they

have no one to turn to. There's no one

that can explain what this and so

they're entering out into the world

having to take care of themselves for

the very first time with this real

possibility that there might not be any

jobs.

On the on the flip side of that, are you

in fact describing the Star Trek

universe, right? You know, a time where

people do not work for everybody has,

you know, anything they need as far as,

you know, apparently survivability, you

know, food, whatever. You know, and now

you have a chance to say, am I going to

be a writer or an explorer or an artist

or a captain or a musician?

>> Yes.

>> You know, I mean, does it does it I mean

I mean I mean is there something in that

that might be hugely liberating?

>> 100%. And I've talked about this as well

that this idea that you have to toil and

you have to be a hunter gatherer or you

know some that you have to do this in

order to find meaning in life is kind of

crazy because we could find meaning a

lot of ways. There's very wealthy people

that never have to work that have

tremendous meaning in their life because

they're doing things all the time

without thinking about work at all.

They're not thinking about it as work.

whatever hobbies they're pursuing or

interests or education they're pursuing,

they're doing it just out of pure

interest and fascination and love and

passion. And that could be all of us.

But there's going to be a tremendous

transition period where people are going

to have to rethink what it means to be a

human being in society. And that's

what's weird because our entire society

is structured out of getting up in the

morning, putting in the work, working

towards a future. You got a 401k, you

got investments, you got this, you got

that, you got a mortgage. And this is

how we've structured our entire

existence and what we what meaning we

gather from life. It's based on that.

We're going to have to figure out a way

to realize and to rethink this. And it's

going to be very difficult for people

that are like 40 and 50 that are just

completely set in their ways and now

their ways change. And I don't know how

many of them are going to be able to

make that switch and what could be done

to assist them in that what can be done.

And maybe that that comes with whatever

this technological interface is. Maybe

that comes with when we become what's

essentially a cyborg that you get a a

much greater understanding of what it

means to exist. And that this idea that

you exist only because the insurance

company you work for is kind of

ridiculous. And we abandon that. I mean

the in the way that now when you open up

your phone and you use perplexity, you

have access to uh

something that's as smart as every human

being on earth in every field. You can

ask it about anything and it'll give you

the state-of-the-art and whatever the

science is, whatever the the

understanding of history, whatever

mathematics,

tax law, whatever it is, it can give it

to you on your phone instantaneously.

And we've just sort of accepted that.

This is our new thing. And I think this

is like a baby step into what it's going

to what this technology could

potentially if you're looking at things

with a glass half full. It could

potentially change the way we look at

everything, the way we look at

ourselves, the way we look at what it

means to be a person and what we find

meaning out of. And this because that's

the problem. The problem is meaning and

the the the feeling like you matter,

feeling like you're important. And I

think part of that is because we're all

so isolated from each other. But that

might go away entirely if the boundaries

between all thought and consciousness.

If we realize like, oh, consciousness is

just a thing that we're all enveloped in

and what our brain is is just a antenna.

It's like tuning into consciousness. And

the depending on how good your antenna

is, you're going to be a little bit

better about how you interface with the

world and whatever thing you desire and

whatever thing you decide to put your

energy and attention to, you maybe

you'll be better at it than another

person because you have a better

antenna. But we might understand that

like we are really truly all one thing.

So all our fears about

you know finding your place in the world

that might be nonsense.

>> I really like that idea. I like the idea

of search for meaning and I agree with

you. I think that as as like you said as

you know Australopythecus as people that

used to exist in these little tribal

groups and families

um the the the modern isolated life. I

mean it's something that I struggle with

a lot. You know I I I'm always wondering

you know where is my family? Where are

my friends?

>> Right?

>> You know I I've had to to do a lot of

sort of interior work about you know I'm

just going to bring along my own

>> family inside somehow. you know, I I had

to provide this all for myself. The idea

of being of being less alone, being less

isolated.

That's one thing that I wanted from the

internet. You know, it started out on

Facebook. I could I could keep up with

my friends, you know, I I saw what they

were doing. They were posting pictures

of their life. It was it was less

isolating. And then now it's evolved to

I can't even find them on Facebook

anymore. It's all, you know, all all the

ads and everything like that. But but

but but I mean, for me, I mean, you you

talk about meaning and you talk about

solving isolation.

Tell me tell me more about that. I I

mean the the the how has your sense of

meaning in your life evolved? How has it

changed over your life? How how do you

find meaning?

>> I find meaning in what? Well, there's a

bunch of things, right? First of all,

it's the people that are in your life.

This is a a giant factor because without

people that you love and people that you

enjoy spending time with, life loses all

of its value. If you're an insanely

wealthy, insanely successful person who

has no friends, who lives alone, you're

living in hell. And if you are a poor

person that has amazing friends and

you're just getting by, you are a

happier person. But I guarantee that

poor person would switch places with

that rich person in a heartbeat because

we're programmed to think that success

is numbers. That success is what you can

what you can accumulate as far as like

objects and desired material

possessions.

But it's not. It's like true success is

happiness and the the amount of joy that

you get out of life and the amount of

satisfaction you get in what you do. So

I think for everybody that answer is a

different answer because for some people

it's going to be music. For some people

it's going to be lit. They're going to

write they're going to there's going to

be a thing that you enjoy putting

yourself into that you feel satisfaction

and you feel meaning on top of friends

and family. So friends and family I

think is foremost, but then they can get

in the way too if they don't have their

together. So like they have to have

a thing that they're enjoying as well.

They have to have a thing that's helping

them grow as an individual. And there's

a thing from martial arts. My instructor

told me that when I was very young that

I never forgot that was martial arts is

a vehicle for developing your human

potential. And that if you find things

that test you and you find things that

are complex and these puzzles that you

have to solve, the more you do that, the

more you get of an understanding of who

you are and what you can do and what you

can do out there in the world. And the

more you do it, the more you can do

other things. And I think that's where I

find meaning. I find meaning in doing

things and enjoying time with my family,

enjoying time with my friends, having

joy and fun and laughter and then also

difficult pursuits. I like things that

are complex, the things that are hard to

solve. I like things that are hard to do

where I I really have to force myself to

do it and then I feel satisfaction

afterwards and I understand my ability

to force myself to do things and in

doing that I find meaning and uh I'm a

relatively happy person. I think I'm

very happy in terms of like the average

person. I think that's why. But if

someone just took that all away, if all

that's gone, would you still have

happiness? Like what is happiness,

right? What is meaning? And what is it

entirely connected to your job? That

seems kind of crazy because a job is

just a constructed thing that it would,

you know, 500 years ago didn't even

exist. So what do what it do? We have to

have mean are we these complex

problem-solving biological organisms

that have this thirst for innovation and

to constantly make things better?

Are we tricking ourselves with jobs to

to be happy? Are we filling the need of

whatever? Like when a cat chases a ball,

what is it doing? What thinks it's

killing something? That's its design.

This is its biological need. You throw a

ball past a cat, it goes after it

because it's got this biological need to

chase things that are running away from

it so it could kill it and eat. And I

think we're kind of doing a similar

thing with our hunter gatherer tribal

organism that we're still trapped in

that we're we're tricking it. We're

tricking it with complex problems and

we're tricking it with community. We're

tricking it with all these different

things that that keep it happy.

>> I agree with you. Yeah, I I think that's

that's a wonderful answer. I mean, there

there's something about the, you know,

the the happy poor person, isolated rich

person thing that I I I I agree with.

But at the same time, you know, seeing

what grinding poverty does to people's

minds and breaking them down with

exhaustion and and demoralization, you

know, there there's obviously some kind

of a a sweet spot for there. You know, I

mean, I I've had to work quite hard in

different parts of my life.

>> And I I was just very aware of of the of

the of the soul grinding, you know, not

having enough, not wondering where your

next meal is coming from. and and and I

have it nowhere near as bad as some.

But, you know, the the thing that was

absolutely for me um unbelievable about

working for NASA was the idea of solving

complex problems with people you trusted

and people that you thought really had

your back and and no organization is

perfect. But, you know, the idea that

there is it's not a zero- sum game,

right? I I mean, you want the whole team

to succeed. I mean, even if there are

missions you think should have been

lower priority or maybe we should spend

more money on this and less money on

that, at the end of the day, you you

want whatever is going on to be

fantastic and you want it to succeed and

you want all the people around you to

succeed. And the idea that again, I

mean, this isn't hunter gathering, you

know? I mean, we're we're we're solving

problems. We're saying, you know, can

you take a picture of the black part of

a black hole? You know, can you actually

see the light area, the event horizon

getting sucked in? I'm talking about the

event horizon telescope, not a NASA

mission. But, you know, there were times

in my life like when I first saw that

picture come together and I didn't think

they'd be able to do that. I don't think

people really understand what happened

there. They they they were doing

something right on the on the on the

fuzzy edge of physics being possible.

You need to catch the same front of a

wavelength of light, right? So, light's

coming by. It's a wave. It travels at

the speed of light. the wavelength of

light is tiny. Let's say for a minute,

you know, that they they were they were

dealing with with microwaves. So, let's

say like a millionth of a meter. So,

something that's a a me a meter divided

by a million is traveling past you at

the speed of light.

And the Earth is is round and the Earth

is moving. And they had they had these

eight observatories all around the

planet. And they had to catch that same

wavefront, the same one. If it was if it

was one wavefront later, one one

millionth of a meter later traveling at

the speed of light, they wouldn't have

gotten the image. They needed to catch

the same wave wavelength, the same

photon, the same wave of light had to be

caught in all of those telescopes at

once. One was at the South Pole, some

were in the in the United States, some

were in Chile. They were all over the

planet. And if you caught the same

freaking wave of light,

>> here it is.

>> There you go.

>> Wow.

>> They they managed to make a telescope

that's actually as big as the Earth. And

they were able to take a picture of the

dark parts of a black hole. Now, now

that's that's something called the

shadow of the event horizon. It's

basically the event horizon where time

and space stop. We don't even know if