Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> Yep. All right. Very nice to meet you,

man.

>> You, too. Thanks.

>> Thank you. And thanks for doing this

work because you want to talk about a

subject that's confused so many people.

Is the sun good for you? Is the sun

killing you? Why does it give you

vitamin D if it's bad for you? Why why

do people get skin cancer if it's good

for you?

>> Yeah, it's it's super complicated and

the messaging has not sort of admitted

that and that was yeah a big impetus for

the book.

>> When what was your opinion of sun

exposure before you started writing

this?

>> So I had you know I had inherited the

conventional wisdom from the

institutions that it was really bad. At

the same time, I'll admit that my

instincts um were that maybe it wasn't

as bad as they were leading me to

believe because whenever I was in the

sun, I felt good. And I lived in Vermont

at the by the time winter was reaching

like month six, I felt bad. Right.

>> Right.

>> So, I was like, there's more here than

uh than we're being told.

>> Yeah. That's that was my wife's opinion.

She's like, "The sun can't be bad. It

always feels good when you go out

there." I'm like, "Oh,

it's a little more complicated than

that." But that is a the instinct. Like

it feels great when you're in the sun.

Like ah, it's like your body wants it.

>> Your body wants it. I mean, we now know

that it literally triggers the release

of opiates in the brain, sunlight. So,

yeah, your body wants it and your body

rewards you when you get it.

>> So, what is the issue? Well, well, let's

go back to the beginning. So, you had

this idea that sun exposure is probably

giving people cancer and sunscreen is

good. you need to wear sunscreen. Stay

out of the sun. So when you started

going into the research, what made you

shift your opinion?

>> So it really started for me like seven

or eight years ago. Um I was on this

like science journalism fellowship. So,

I was just doing research and some of

those studies hit the one about opiate

release in the brain and other studies

showing that when light hits skin, um,

cognition actually improves like your

metabolism

cranks up a little bit when it when the

body feels sunlight coming in. Um, and I

thought that's interesting. Um, that's

all good stuff. Then I came across a

couple other studies that seem to

indicate that uh, sunlight could lower

blood pressure, which was really

interesting. So then, you know, I still

had this sense sunlight bad, right? So

then I remember just like googling like

so how much does sunlight like shorten

your lifespan? Um and like the punchline

is sunlight seems to extend your

lifespan. So when I hit that I was like

why are we not hearing this? So that was

the beginning.

>> And so then so what is the problem? Like

what what is the issue with sunlight?

Like when you think about skin cancer,

what are the confounding factors that

lead to skin cancer? Are we completely

aware of that?

>> It's more complicated than we thought.

So sunlight does increase your risk of

skin cancer, but it depending on the

type of skin cancer you're talking

about, it's not necessarily like a

linear relationship. So yes, in general,

too much sun increases your risk of skin

cancer. But yeah, the question is what

are the confounding factors? How

important is skin cancer compared to

these other things? If sunlight reduces

your risk of other diseases, how does

that weigh against the risk of skin

cancer? Um, so it it's not the type of

thing that can, you know, be done in a

30-cond PSA,

>> right? So,

so SC sun cancer that does cause skin

cancer, excuse me, sun exposure that

does cause skin cancer, what what is

causing it? Why is it happening? So uh

ultraviolet light which is the most

energyinttense part of the solar

spectrum um when those photons of light

hit your skin they go inside right we we

absorb all wavelengths of light to a

greater or lesser degree and that super

high energy ultraviolet light if it hits

a DNA molecule it can mess up the DNA

molecule and then that can lead to

mutations and skin cancer. Um then it

can also indirectly cause skin cancer.

um by creating uh what are called

reactive oxygen species which are free

radicals basically. So it energizes

these um atoms that start to steal

electrons from other atoms and cause a

little chain reaction which is what a

free radical is. Um so ultraviolet light

can increase your free radicals and it

can directly damage DNA. So that's why

it could cause skin cancer. So, it was

basically that learning that one fact

back in like the 40s and 50s um that

made scientists start to say, "Uh oh,

light skin cancer. Maybe we should think

about how much sun we're getting."

>> But this wasn't universally accepted,

right? There were some people that even

back then thought that sun exposure was

very healthy for you. Like when did we

figure out that sun causes the body to

produce vitamin D? Yeah, that was an

important part and it's a big part of

the story I think because that was

really back in the 20s that we figured

that out and then even a little earlier

we realized that um sunlight could

prevent ricketetts. So

>> ricketetts

>> Yeah. So ricketetts is a like soft bone

disease like if you you don't h get

enough um calcium into your bones when

you're a kid when you're a baby you get

soft bones you get ricketetts really bad

disease um and it was in the industrial

revolution kids starting getting ricket

started getting ricketetts um farm kids

never got ricketetts then suddenly kids

are working in factories they're living

in cities that are choked with coal coal

smog they're living in tenement

buildings they're never seeing the sun

and they all start getting ricketetts

late late 1800s.

>> Was nutrition a factor in that

>> vitamin D? It was all vitamin D.

>> At first they thought maybe it was

vitamin A. Um but it turned out it was

that was how vitamin D was discovered

was um some doctors figured out that it

could solve kid ricketetts in kids. And

then they figured out that if sun hit

skin that's how we made vitamin D. Then

they figured out

>> how did they figure that out? Um they

tested uh they did some tests on uh um

dogs. Actually, one of the guys who

figured it out, he um he was he had a

hunch that that's what it was. Like they

noticed that kids in the country

wouldn't get ricketetts and kids in the

city did get ricketetts. So like I

wonder if it's sunlight. So then a guy

took dogs and and this was I think

Scotland, stuck them in a um they they

actually thought it was dietary. He

stuck them inside in this like little

like warehouse and fed them oatmeal

which is what everyone in Scotland ate

at the time and the dogs got ricketetts

and he thought it was the oatmeal. He's

like, "Okay, so something about diet."

But then he got lucky cuz he had

deprived the dogs of sunlight and that's

why they got ricketetts. Um so then

eventually they realized that um light

hitting

cholesterol molecules in the skin

actually converts the molecules to

vitamin D. So vitamin D is like

downstream of cholesterol, but it takes

that same ultraviolet light that can

screw up your DNA. it actually breaks a

bond in the cholesterol molecule which

allows it to it gives it some movement

and it flips around into a new form

that's vitamin D. So once they figure

that out um then they're like sun's

really good for you. So we had this er

in like the 20s 30s and into the 40s

when everyone thought sun would cure

everything and they like went after it

hard.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. like they parents would send their

kids up into the Alps in like the 20s to

institutes for heliootherapy. Kids would

ski around in their underwear, take

classes in their underwear. There's

awesome photos from this this era. Um

like the instructors are in their

underwear in the mountains outside in

Switzerland teaching the kids. Uh and

everyone looks really healthy, right? So

that there's kind of like this idea that

you couldn't get too much light. So

people are literally burning themselves

on purpose for health.

>> Is that the issue? Is burning a giant

part of the issue?

>> Yeah. So to give it away now it looks

like for melanoma which is the most

dangerous type of skin cancer it's

associated with burning strongly but not

with like gentle moderate everyday sun

exposure.

>> So um how much of a factor is skin type?

like uh people that are pale or have

freckles and red hair and blonde hair

like how how much of a factor is that in

skin cancer and can they mitigate that

by like gentle

slow exposure like a little bit here a

little bit there and slowly build up?

>> Yeah, huge like skin type is kind of

everything. People have really dark skin

>> basically don't get suninduced skin

cancer almost never. Um, and the, uh,

you know, the authorities don't tend to

talk about that because they want things

to be, they want to have like these

one-sizefits-all recommendations. But

those recommendations to basically

always avoid the sun are written for the

super fair people, especially if you

have red hair, orange freckles, then um,

you actually have a mutation in your

melanin gene that makes you super

susceptible to skin cancer from

sunlight. So, if you've got if you've

got that phenotype, lots of moles, red

hair, uh freckles, you do have to be

really careful. And you can't you you

can only do so much, like you're not

going to tan that much anyway. Your

melanin is just different. Everybody

else,

yeah, you're you're much less

susceptible and you can tan, you know,

you can make more melanin pretty easily

through tanning. I wonder what if any

effect. Have you ever heard of that? I

don't I can't remember the name of the

peptide, but there's a peptide that

people are taking now that causes their

body to generate melanin and they get

really dark.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> It's really weird.

>> Yeah. And I don't know what's going on

there exactly. It seems like that

peptide is maybe making you there's

things called photosensitizers that make

your skin super sens like like you just

absorb solar radiation really well then

but not necessarily in a good way and

that can make you make tons of melanin

to try to compensate. So, I wonder that

peptide might be triggering um a like

melanin as a compensation mechanism for

extra protection from sunlight. Or maybe

it's just making melanin happen like

independently of sunlight.

>> Did you put it into perplexity? Oh, here

it is. Um mel melaton melanoton

melanotan melanotan synthetic peptide uh

analog of the naturally occurring

hormone a melan melanocy stimulating

hormone stimulates the body's

melanocytes to produce melanin resulting

in a dark tan. It's largely unre unre

excuse me unregulated, illegal in many

regions for cosmetic purposes and

carries significant health risks. All

right. What's the risks? Uh it's not

approved by the FDA uh for cosmetic use

and unregulated market means purity.

Okay, but that's unregulated. Notable

risks include dermatological issues,

rapid and uneven darkening of existing

moles, the emergence of new moles, and

hyperpigmentation.

concerns that could mask or accelerate

the development of melanoma.

Uh what is this? Potentially damaging

erections. What erections?

>> Oh, that's right. This apparently gives

people raging erections.

>> Why?

>> Prolonged, painful, and potentially

damaging ere damaging. Imagine you get a

erection that goes so hard you redline

the penis.

Medical and dermatological organizations

strongly advise against the use of mel

melanoton melanitan because it's

unapproved. There are no clinically

established safe dosages.

>> Well, weird because that um so alpha MSH

the thing that it is mimicking is is

that's how your body makes melanin.

That's how your body's supposed to do

it.

>> You got to see the before and afters cuz

they're kind of bonkers. Um, I've seen

some people get super Well, the problem

is it's Instagram. You never know what's

real. That's uh That guy got a little

tan. Let's see if uh there's any Okay,

look how pale that See, but that's not

How do we know if that's real?

>> It's just like there's like a light on

them and

>> Right. And then he's in a [ __ ] dark

closet in the last picture.

>> Best before and after photos I've seen.

>> Is there that one right there? The lower

the No, the one. Yeah, that one. Look at

that guy.

Well, you know, it's a look. It's an

interesting look.

>> He injected himself with unregulated

tanning peptide melanoton melanotan 2.

Click on that.

>> Seems like a a joke a little bit.

>> No, no. This guy, this is the guy that I

saw online. This guy's he's the test

rabbit. This dude went hard.

>> Did he get a an erection, too?

>> Yeah, he died from that. I don't know.

So, his before and afters. So, let's see

what is He just Okay.

Yeah, he just got darker and darker and

darker. But I wonder if like if I

understand that it's unregulated, but if

it was regulated and this is something

they're trying to work with right now

with peptides and make them reg. See,

that's the photo's dark though.

>> I mean, that's like a shitty iPhone one

camera.

>> That's crazy. If that's like this is

nuts.

There's something going on there. Like,

you know what it looks like? It looks

like those bodybuilder guys who use that

that that ink, that dye on their skin to

make themselves darker so their muscles

pop out more. So, here's here's better

tanning log photos. These are better

photos. That's crazy. But I wonder if

that offers skin protection.

>> It would definitely offer I mean, if it

is if it's if it's melanin, um, it's

definitely I mean, that guy can can

probably

>> be outside all day.

>> Yeah. So that's the question is that

available to someone who was pale like

and if someone is pale uh see if you

could find an example of someone who's

pale who took it because you would think

like oh well maybe that maybe just we

need to do studies and figure out what

the dosage is and figure out how to

activate that aspect of it.

>> Melanin clearly protects you from from

skin cancer. Like if you if you have

super dark skin, like you know, African

ancestry, you're blocking like your

melanin is absorbing like 97 98% of the

UV rays. It's super effective.

>> But didn't Bob Marley died from skin

cancer?

>> He did. Um

>> that's pretty crazy.

>> Okay, this is one. Wow,

>> it looks like the same person. Hard to

tell the face.

>> Same mold.

>> Yeah, it looks like the same mole. That

looks pretty good.

But I would just also wouldn't if you

were trying to sell some of the stuff uh

in maybe nefarious ways this would be an

easy one to market

>> tough and you know

>> definitely look this is part of the

unregulated market problem

>> is we don't know and also you know

you're getting 99% bro science on this

stuff you know like

who's what

>> screams bro science

>> screams it from the top of the hills

like what legitimate scientist is out

there injecting himself with melanitan.

>> But the other thing is if you do it

naturally, right? If you just get a

little sun every day and slowly build

up, you're not just making melanin,

you're also increasing your body's

damage repair system. Like you have all

these like nucleotide excision repair

things that fix your DNA and fix cells

that have gotten screwed up.

>> And that will also ramp up um every day.

you and it's not just um not just

sunlight like exercise same thing like

anything that that like stresses the

body a little bit. It's like hormesis,

right? So all those things are going to

cause your damage repair system to crank

up and be ready. So

>> you probably want those to like the

melanin and the damage repair to to like

go up together,

>> right? So you would want to if if let's

say studies were done, let's say we

found what the effective and safe dose

is and and how to administer it, you

would want to do it along with sun

exposure slowly to try to ramp up your

body's ability.

>> Added note on this. Uh this happened 14

years ago.

>> Wow.

>> Which is strange. Here's some of the

side effects he said, but he also said

he's pretty much impervious to UV at

this point.

>> Increased libido. Didn't see that one

much either. He said he didn't get it.

Wait. Okay. Sides are decreased

appetite, very mild nausea more for

some, none for me. Decreased libido,

increased libido. He said it didn't see

that one much either. Some get facial

flushing like a nascin dose. Never got

that either. And the most strange thing

is that it feels really good to stretch

like when you first wake up.

Interesting.

>> Huh.

Um, did you do it for the skin coloring?

Yes, I did it for the skin coloring. I'm

pretty much impervious to UV at this

point. I have faded about 25% since

returning from Florida January 31st.

We'll be dosing again probably in March.

Is this guy still alive?

>> 14 years. What is that?

>> Click on that link where his his

profile.

>> Let's see if homeboy is alive.

>> To see where this takes us on.

>> Is this Reddit?

>> Uh, see a year ago he's commenting. I

never did it. Subtle. Okay, so a year

ago he's still alive or someone has

taken over his account.

>> In theory, you could use an old school

quartz tanning lamp. Okay, so you could

tan with it.

>> And he's in a weird Reddit there, so we

got to stop looking.

>> Why?

>> I don't I mean, this is not for the

show, but he's in a weird

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

>> That's why I was afraid to go that way.

>> That's the problem. Well, only crazy

people are willing to try something like

that. Like do you remember that there

was a guy god I think it was on Oprah or

one of those shows where he was uh

taking was it

>> silver?

>> Yeah. Collidal silver.

>> That's right. Colloidal silver. And his

whole his skin turned blue permanently

like a smurf.

>> Yeah.

>> Poor guy.

>> Yeah.

>> And he wound up dying.

>> Yeah.

>> What? When? And how did it kill him?

>> I don't know if it killed him, but he's

I believe he died young. That's homeboy.

Not good.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's that's just not a

good look.

>> You would think you'd start turning a

little blue and you'd go, "Hey, maybe I

need to back off this colloidal silver."

>> Papaf dies.

>> Yeah. I mean, what the [ __ ] dude? That

guy. I mean, maybe he could have gotten

some lantitan and evened that out and

just been a nice chocolate, you know,

like a bluish chocolate.

>> I mean, he looks delicious. I'll say

that.

>> Yeah. This is Argria.

Argeria.

Argaria. The rare disease that turns

people blue. Caused by a buildup of

silver in the body which discolors the

skin. Wow.

2013.

He died from unrelated causes. Whatever

that means. I mean, anybody's taken that

much colloidal silver, you're probably

making a lot of other mistakes.

>> I mean, yeah. Like,

>> you're a risky dude.

>> So many options.

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Um, back to Bob Marley.

>> Yes,

>> he did die of skin cancer and that

confuses a lot of people. So, he had he

had melanoma on his toe. So, and that

was a kind of uh mel melanoma that's not

caused by the sun.

>> And everybody gets it, no matter, you

know, what race you are, everybody gets

it at this the same rate, which is is

quite uncommon. um they know it's not

caused by um the sun, but it it like it

it complicates things for people because

people are like, "I got melanoma in my

toe." And and they think it's from the

sun and they're like, "How did that

happen?" Right? Uh like what's melanoma

doing down there? But so it does not all

melanomas are are

caused by the sun. There's um you know,

most probably are, but it gets really

weird with melanoma. Um, it's associated

with burning with like intermittent sun

exposure, like you work in an office all

year and then you go to Cancun and get

fried.

>> That's a pretty good recipe for

melanoma. Um, history of sunburns also

that will double your risk. Chronic

exposure where you have an outdoor job

every day, lower than average risk of

melanoma. So, really? Yeah. So, it gets

weird.

>> Like landscapers or something.

Landscapers have outdoor workers have

fewer have a lower incidence of melanoma

than office workers.

>> Wow.

>> And we don't hear that.

>> No. No. I mean, I was I was looking at

Instagram the other day and some poor

guy had this

I don't know what happened to his face,

but he had some sort of skin cancer and

they had to take a graft and his it was

on his nose. So it was like a flap of

skin was like almost covering over his

eye and you know his message was wear

sunscreen. This is what happened to me.

>> Well, so I mean Yeah. So I don't want to

downplay skin cancer because it sucks

when you get it if it's you know they

have to cut off a hunk of your ear or

something that definitely sucks. Even if

it's not life-threatening sucks.

>> Yeah. So, but and so yeah, like but

that's generally from overexposure like

>> burning

>> burning. All the experts I've spoken

with said don't burn. Right.

>> Right. Burning is the one that people

always say that it's not just burning.

It's burning causes damage that starts

to appear years later.

>> Yeah. And there's they're dialing in on

that more and more. It can start much

like burns during childhood is actually

the highest association for melanoma. So

don't burn when you're a kid. that we're

all screwed, man.

>> Oh, that sucks. That sucks cuz I [ __ ]

cooked myself as a kid.

>> Same here. I grew up in Florida, fried,

you know.

>> Well, when I was a kid in the 70s and

80s, you know, you wanted to get a tan,

especially when I lived in Boston, it

was cold as [ __ ] in the winter. When it

got warm, you know, you're a Vermont,

huh?

>> You got out there, you're like, "Ah, put

baby oil on. We fried."

>> Totally. I I was just looking at some of

those Johnson baby oil ads from like the

60s and 70s. Oh my god. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah, it was basically cooking

lube. Totally.

>> Yeah. It just helped helped you cook

better.

>> But you remember, you know, George

Hamilton, like the actor, Mr. Tan, he

had like

>> Yeah.

>> He was all about that. I I just the

other day I was like, "How's he doing?"

87 and ridiculously healthy right now.

Really?

>> Yeah. He's going strong.

>> Yeah. I met that guy. He was He did an

episode of News Radio once.

>> Yeah. He was tan as [ __ ] Yeah. That

that was his thing.

>> That was his thing. It became Yeah. what

he was known for and still It's still

going. That's So he's still tan.

>> Yeah, you should see him. He looks

great.

>> What does he look like? Pull out a photo

of George Hamilton.

>> I mean, great for an 87 year old.

>> Yeah, look at him still tan.

>> How does he shiny?

>> What a weird thing to be known for.

>> He's the guy who gets tan.

You know what I'm saying? I mean, try to

remember a role that he played.

>> That's true. I I think he was Dracula in

some bad 1970s like comedy. Look at

that. That's a tan right there.

>> Right. So, how was he getting it though?

Like I remember when I was a kid in

Boston, a lot of people use tanning

beds, especially in the winter time.

>> And they still do. Like that those are

actually like on the rise. And they do.

They seem to raise your risk of melanoma

for sure. There you go. That's how he

did it.

>> Ah, look. He's got a reflect tan thing.

So, he was just out there getting

sunlight all the time. And he didn't

look bad.

That's you know that that's a that's a

weird one, right? He claims he's never

had skin cancer, I think.

>> Well, he probably was doing it so often

that his body was prepared for it,

right? Look at that photo of him with

that lady in the corner.

>> Yeah, look at that. That's nuts.

>> See, that's the thing. I think um like

if you're getting that regular dosage,

your body is producing all of these

compounds whose entire job is to make

sure your cells don't turn cancerous

because you know living things have been

working on this for 500 million years.

Like they've been get hammered by the

sun every day and they got to deal with

it,

>> right? So, it's when uh it seems like

when your skin is totally unprepared and

you shock it with a like a massive dose

that that it's not ready for,

uh then then you're in trouble. Like

that's the kind of thing that triggers

trouble.

>> Was there any push back on this

research? Like when when you first

started examining this and realizing

that sun exposure has a lot of benefits,

were any dermatologists saying, "Hey,

this is dangerous information. And you

shouldn't say this.

>> Hell yeah. I've been denounced multiple

times by the American Academy of

Dermatology. Like officially, they send

an official letter when I write an

article and they say

>> nobody should be getting any sun

exposure.

>> That's their opinion. No one should be

getting any sun exposure regardless of

the benefits, the vitamin D, the

>> no sun exposure without protection from

either sunscreen or, you know, clothing.

>> Wow. Oh,

>> and if if that makes you vitamin D

deficient, take a pill. So that's what

that's what needs to change because

those pills haven't panned out in tests.

They don't work like natural D does for

whatever reason.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. They don't work at all.

>> What do you mean? So,

everyone thought like back in like the

80s uh 90s, everyone started noticing,

scientists started noticing that uh

people who naturally had lower amounts

of vitamin D in their blood had um

higher rates of all like the classic

chronic diseases. So, I started

thinking, okay, vitamin D, it's like a

magic uh pill almost. It'll cure it'll

reduce everyone's risk of all these

diseases if we raise their rates of D.

So they started recommending vitamin D

pills, which I think are still like the

number one supplement in the world.

>> I take it.

>> Um, so then they did all these clinical

trials to prove that it would help.

Huge, huge clinical trials. Tens of

thousands of people, follow-ups that

went out went for many years.

None of them showed a benefit.

>> No benefit in terms of your immune

response.

>> No benefit for any condition. Now, did

they take vitamin D along with vitamin

K2 and with magnesium? Because that's

what's recommended.

>> So, I don't I mean, there were a bunch

of different

>> apparently vitamin D by itself is not

effective that you need vitamin D with

K2 and magnesium. And I think there

might be another one. What? See, put

that into perplexity, please.

>> See, but it says like what are the

benefits of vitamin D and what should it

be taken with? Because I think magnesium

and K2 are the big ones and that

together they have a sort of a

synergistic effect.

>> Yeah.

>> And that that could be like Yeah, I'd be

curious.

>> Yeah, I think vitamin D by itself the

body has a problem absorbing it. It's

like there's a lot of things like that.

Like zinc is like that. You need an

ionaphor to absorb zinc so you take it

with corsetin.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, one thing like D, you know, the

way you it naturally comes in through

the skin and it comes in with a whole

bunch of related compounds, right?

Right. And so, yeah, I do think there's

sort of a synergistic effect when it's

combined with the right things.

>> But D from the sun has always been known

as the best way to get it. Like the best

way to get vitamin D, the most

effective, the healthiest way is through

sun exposure.

>> Yeah. Like that's that's how the design

is supposed to work.

>> Perplexi says vitamin D helps your body

absorb calcium, build strong bones and

teeth, support muscles and nerves, plays

a key role in immune function. It's best

absorbed when taken with a meal or a

snack that contains some fat and offered

paired with calcium for bone health.

Um what? So please put in what are the

benefits of vitamin D taken with K2 and

magnesium.

See if it says that because this is what

my doctor who is a vitamin specialist

recommends

benefits when taken with K2 and

magnesium.

Okay. Taking vitamin D together with uh

vitamin K2 and magnesium can make each

of them work more effectively,

especially for bones and heart as long

as the doses are appropriate for you.

The trio mainly improves how your body

handles calcium. Interesting. D helps

you absorb it. Magnesium uh helps

activate D and K2 helps send calcium

into bones instead of arteries. D

increases calcium absorption from your

gut and supports bone, muscle, and

immune function. Magnesium required to

activate vitamin D. Low magnesium can

blunt vitamin D's effect and also

directly support bone structure and many

enzymes. K2 activates proteins that move

calcium into bones and teeth and keep it

out of the arteries and soft tissues,

helping bone and cardiovascular health.

The potential benefits of the combo,

better bone support, heart and artery

protection, more uh efficient vitamin D

use. Okay, so the doctor is correct. So

maybe that's the problem is that these

people were taking it with low

magnesium,

low calcium,

didn't have K2. Yeah. Although I'd be

cur like I'd be curious if um like if uh

there was an effect on um disease

incidents for that combination. I don't

I don't know because the D on its own

Yeah. didn't show any any effect. But

sun exposure,

>> let's put that in. Does vitamin D taken

on its own have any health benefits?

Let's see what it says to that because I

I'd never heard that that D on its own

was not effective at all. I've just

heard that it was minimally effective

that you had to take it with other

>> It seems like it only helps people who

have who are really deficient. Like if

you're if you're super low like below

like 16 nos per milliliter um

>> then probably it's a good idea. But like

for people who already had like at least

20 nanogs per milliliter, it didn't seem

to have any of these benefits that they

were seeing in people who naturally had

high rates through

>> answered it the way you're looking for

It says, "Yes, vitamin D on its own has

several wellproven health benefits,

especially for bones, muscles, and

immunity."

>> Just like a general answer,

>> huh?

Bone strength and fracture prevention,

muscle function, adequate.

>> I didn't add own. Sorry.

>> What's that?

>> I didn't I missed the word own taken on

it.

>> On its own.

>> Try the answer weird.

>> So, let's see. Yes. Has clear proven

benefits especially for bones, muscles,

and correcting deficiency. Yeah. So

that's going to be for people who have

super low levels.

>> Mhm. Preventing ricketetts. There it is.

>> Yeah. But so they they had thought that

it might reduce incidence of all these

other diseases based on what they're

seeing for people who naturally had high

levels through sun exposure

>> and it didn't. Um so then

>> people who had high levels through sun

exposure.

>> Yeah. So so because your your natural

level of vitamin D is sort of a direct

like meter of how much

>> Right. But this is natural level. You're

not talking about supplementation.

Right. Right.

>> So that was why like people who had high

levels of D without supplementation have

lower rates of like every disease you

can think of.

>> Um so the hope was that raising

everyone's D to those levels would would

have the same effect. Uh and it didn't

like New England Journal of Medicine did

a actually did a editorial in 2022

saying stop prescribing D. It doesn't

work. um which is

God that seems incorrect though because

if you're taking it with magnesium and

K2 it seems that they do work

synergistically and there seems to be

proven health benefits that one of the

problems I think is like I I I think

people generally

want to avoid recommending

supplementation for some reason.

>> Mhm.

>> It's kind of a weird thing like they

want to dismiss it. Like I had a doctor

once that told me, "Don't bother taking

vitamins. Just uh eat a balanced diet."

And I was like, "Look at you."

>> And the guy looked like [ __ ]

>> He didn't look as good as you, right?

You look terrible. Doctors. Yeah. I'm

amazed how poor what poor health they

generally like seem to I can't take it.

I mean, it's so hard to take seriously a

guy with a gut when little just he

looked terrible. And he was telling me

that I just need a healthy diet. And I'm

like, okay, I do have a healthy diet,

but also I feel different when I take

vitamins and my blood work re reflects

that.

>> Yeah, I noticed that with when I was I

was I started going to all the

conferences of the sun researchers and

they're all in like the basement of

hotels and those guys all are as pacy as

it gets. Like do none of you guys like

you know practice what you preach?

Really? How strange is it that human

beings with all of our knowledge with I

mean obviously there's much more to

learn we're still confused about how we

interact with our environment.

>> Yeah, absolutely 100%.

>> With sun which seems to be like it's

there. It's it's everywhere. It's like

you're always in the sun in normal in in

the normal world environment where human

outside of cities and all that stuff.

That's It seems like we would have an

understanding of what happens when

you're interacting with sun.

>> Yeah. And light period. Like light of

all kinds. Like it seems like there's

this sense in biology that light didn't

matter. It's like just ephemeral. Um

which you know the quantum physicist 100

years ago understood that light and

matter are just like two halves of the

same coin, right? And that light totally

affects the behavior of molecules. We're

made of molecules. Light's going to

matter. So, I actually think like that's

where I eventually got to with the book.

I was like, we need to think about our

light diets and our like lightcapes that

we're, you know, surrounding ourselves

with like more seriously than we have.

>> Well, it seems like your work is based

entirely on the data. So, what did these

dermatologists have to say about the

data? if they're denouncing you and

they're saying that, you know, this guy

should not be listened to, the things

you're saying are dangerous. Like, but

you're talking about data, so I don't

understand how they can just make those

flat statements like that,

>> right? And what I think we just need to

have a conversation about the data and

you know, there's no like right answer

ahead of time, but they don't uh like

their job is to prevent skin cancer. So,

if you if that's your only job, you're

going to tell people stay out of the

sunlight forever.

>> Forever, right? And no one can call you

on that. No one can say, "Hey, like I

got skin cancer. It's your fault."

>> Right? But doesn't sun exposure improve

cardiovascular health and lower blood

pressure? And isn't cardiovascular

disease a far more dangerous problem

than skin cancer in terms of numbers?

>> It's number one 20 million deaths a

year, cardia.

So anything that moves the needle on

that is awesome, you know,

>> and it does

>> and it seems to like all the studies

show it does. Um and they're but they're

all observational studies right you look

at populations you're like oh these

people have more sun exposure lower

blood pressure lower rates of

cardiovascular disease but then you know

the other side will say you know

correlation does not prove causation

like prove show us that it's you know do

do your giant clinical study where you

stick half the people in the sunlight

and they live longer

>> which is not going to happen

>> right yeah but it's like are they

willing to have a conversation with you.

>> They're not they're not willing to they

don't want to look outside of the sun

and uh skin cancer question like they're

not willing to entertain any of the

other uh benefits that are outside of

their field. So there's got to be

somebody out there who can be the

generalist who can like think about it

holistically.

>> That seems so ignorant. It's it's the

it's the state of science now. Like the

science is a is, you know, like a field

of micro specialties.

>> Would you like some coffee?

>> Yeah, I'll take a little. That looks

good when you're pouring it.

>> It's also a very shiny uh press.

>> Oh, yeah. Cheers, sir.

>> Cheers.

Is coffee good for you?

>> Coffee is awesome for Coffee is

shockingly good for me.

>> Talk to me. Let's go.

>> It's It is [ __ ] crazy how good coffee

is for you. I've I've been like startled

by the like power of the evidence.

>> Yeah. Uh I've read both. I've read It's

Bad for You and I dismissed it because

uh I I'm biased

and I love coffee and uh I just I just

it it just tastes too good. It feels too

good. I like it.

>> It's um

>> but I've read a lot of benefits about

it.

>> I think it's the best possible

supplement.

>> Really?

>> You think of it as a supplement? I it's

the be and I think it's all due to

mitochondrial function. I think uh it it

makes your mitochondria just spin, you

know.

>> And is it particularly because of

caffeine or coffee itself? Is the coffee

bean,

>> you know? I mean, caffeine I think it's

caffeine, but I wouldn't be surprised if

there's other stuff in coffee that's

contributing because, you know, like tea

doesn't seem to quite like deliver the

goods like like coffee does. No. Um but

caffeine is actually um the plants are

making it to kill bugs. Right.

>> Right. Because it makes the bugs

mitochondria run out of control and they

basically like blow up. Um

>> it does that to us, but we have these

other like like governors like that come

in and and slow down that ramp up. So we

get the nice ramp up without the

explosion. So So it's good. Um so it

makes it you know we we produce energy

more efficiently with less uh wear and

tear. That's all I need to hear. I'm in.

I just love coffee. I'm not giving it

up. But I've heard many people say that

Michael Pollen had a really interesting

anecdote. Uh he laid off coffee for I

think three or four months as an

experiment and then he had a cup of

coffee and he said it was like taking a

psychedelic.

>> He said, "I just felt so amazing and it

the the effect was so profound." He

said, "I really wanted to do it only

that way where I only take it, you know,

very rarely because but then I fell

right back into my life."

>> Right back. Yeah. Like I remember that

article. It was great. And also he said

none of the like the um caffeine

researchers touch the stuff. I'm like

that's not good. Um but yeah, he uh he

went right back to it and I think he's a

a proud coffee drinker.

>> Yeah, he is. He went right back to it.

But um so have you had any conversations

with these dermatologists that are

denouncing you?

>> No, but I'd like to actually I think uh

>> are they willing or is have they avoided

them?

>> They have so far really avoided like

they they they just say you know we're

not ready to look at any of that

research.

>> That's so weird.

>> I think it's going to change. I think

actually um like like I said I think

light medicine is actually going to

become very important in the next 10 20

years and dermatologists are kind of

positioned to be like the leaders on

that stuff because like uh skin is the

primary like interface with light for

our bodies and you know they should be

experts on all this um you you know red

light therapy is a big thing now

>> um and dermatologists are doing that uh

even though the evidence isn't great for

that but I think there's probably

something there. Um, but they should

basically I think they need to be

thinking more about all these different

wavelengths of light as healing

modalities and how to, you know, work

them into like regular like programs.

>> I've talked about this before, so I

apologize to anybody listening, but I've

essentially completely stopped my

macular degeneration with red light

therapy.

>> Wow. Yeah.

>> Not just stopped it, but reversed it.

Like I don't need reading glasses

anymore. I've been using a red light bed

for about two years now. And from the

time I started using it, within about a

month, I started seeing benefits. And so

Gary Breco was on the podcast and he

explained it to me. And so I I went out

and bought one of these really

expensive, it's like a tanning bed, this

thing you lie in. And I do it three

times a week for 20 minutes.

>> So all over.

>> Yep. Naked. Just lie down in there. And

I keep my eyes open. And uh they you

know I went to a tanning bed once, not a

tanning bed, a red light bed once at uh

the health clinic and they were like got

to wear these goggles and make sure you

close your eyes before the light goes

on. I was like okay I did all that and

apparently there's some benefit that

even when blindfolded it in increases

your vision.

>> Yeah, for sure. It's um and I again I

think mitochondria are part of the

answer that there's a guy at uh

University College London Glenn Jeffrey

who this is his whole field um optometry

and uh red light and he has shown in

multiple different animals including

humans that um red light improves

mitochondrial function and and improves

vision.

>> Yeah. I mean I'm 58 and for me to be 56

and saying I'm [ __ ] I I I had these

[ __ ] things everywhere. I had these

all these reading glasses. I had them

all over my house. I'd gotten up to 3X.

These are the cheap Amazon ones. I had a

nice pair, but I keep losing them. So, I

just I went out and bought cheap ones.

They seem to work. And it was just fine

for looking at a computer, you know,

reading my emails, reading my phone, and

I needed them to read my phone. I don't

need them anymore, like at all. I don't

use them anymore. My my vision's not

perfect. It's not as good as it was when

I was 20, but it's way better than it

was when I was 56.

>> And I Yeah, I think so. The um the uh in

the the mitochondria in the eyes have to

fire faster than any mitochondria

anywhere else in the body. The eyes burn

through energy like like no other cells.

Um because it's like, you know, it's

kind of the toughest task. It's like

they got to go super fast. Um, so they,

yeah, they those mitochondria need to be

on top of their game and it seems like

red light benefits that in particular,

>> but seems so close-minded that these

dermatologists aren't willing to say

maybe we're looking at just insufficient

amount of data. Maybe we're looking at

this wrong. Maybe the whole thing is

much more nuanced and maybe there's

benefits if done correctly. I just don't

understand why they're not will if

there's all this data which clearly you

show in your book that there's a

tremendous amount of data why

>> you know like um so there's this like

saying attributed to Max Plunk who's

this like quantum physicist science

advances one funeral at a time right so

I think we got to let the old guard like

die off a little bit but I I guarantee

there's a young generation coming in

who's going to be really interested in

light and how they can use it.

>> Oh certainly. Well, I think there's so

many conversations available online now

from actual researchers and people that

have put in the time and put in the work

and explored things from this position

that like, hey, maybe the old guard are

not correct. And the data seems to show

that that's true.

>> Yeah. And it's fun. I mean, playing with

light, it's super fun. So, like, this is

a way you can you can like make your

world a little bit richer is starting to

think about this stuff.

>> Well, it's also like, don't you want to

be informed? And if there's if we do

understand that it has an effect on

mitochondria and there is all this

evidence that red light seems to have

some benefits like wouldn't I just don't

understand how someone could be an

expert in skin and ignore that.

>> Well, I think that and they'll be they

won't object to the red there. Some of

them are using red light therapy because

there's no risk of skin cancer for red.

It's only the UV and maybe a little bit

of the blue that contributes to skin

cancer. So that it's the UV where where

they get a little wigged out.

>> Yeah. But but even that it seems like

there's a like in your book you show

there's a tremendous amount of data

there's health benefits to it. So I just

don't understand

>> and that data is it's comes from all

different other fields like immunology,

cardiology. So, and like scientists are

sort of increasingly like hesitant to

trespass on their other other domains,

right? You know, like they're not going

to walk across campus to the uh the

other building.

>> Mhm.

>> Anymore.

>> Yeah.

>> But that needs to change, you know.

>> Yeah. We've had those discussions too

with scientists that are

>> super frustrated especially when they

try to get interdisciplinary

groups together to study one particular

thing and

>> everyone's resisting because they have

their own work that they're working on

and they don't want to get involved and

it's just like guys

>> this is what you're here for. There's

not a lot of scientists. You got to do

your job because like you're the only

ones that are doing it. There's without

you guys we're [ __ ] And if you're out

there relying on old insufficient data

or you know you have this very small

data set that shows that there's

negative outcomes to sunlight and so you

just throw the baby out with the

bathwater like you're doing the whole

field a massive disservice.

>> And the other part of it is that um

science it's it's sort of very

self-reinforcing. It's all it's all

grant-based essentially. Like if you're

a scientist, you want to do a study, you

have to apply for a grant to get the

money to do the study, right? And

there's generally a handful of entities

that are like handing out the grant

money

>> and it's the old guys waiting to die um

who are going to approve what they think

is the truth, but they're they're going

to fund the study that fits with what

they already know about the world. So,

it's this kind of crazy system where the

only way you can get money to do a study

is if you're already telling them what

they know.

>> Right. Right. So, it's very difficult to

get funded to do something that goes

against the grain increasingly so and

that's a problem.

>> And so much of it is dependent upon the

ego of the people that are at the top of

the organization.

>> Ego is definitely part of it.

>> It's a giant part of it because if

they've based their entire career on

telling you one thing that turns out to

be incorrect, they're very reluctant to

correct themselves.

>> Yeah. That there's not just a It's very

rare to find the individual who's well

known in the field and is eager to

selforrect, you know. So, have you had

any conversations with any of these

dermatologists?

>> Uh, no, but I'd love to.

>> Not one? That seems crazy. Have you

reached out to any of them?

>> I have. When I've reached out and I get

the boilerplate like

we don't want anyone in the sun, take

your D pills. Doesn't matter. Uh well,

and the one that really um that I think

has got to change is the skin color

question because fine to to you know go

with the the re recommendations for

avoiding sun for people with fair skin,

but for people with dark skin who have

almost no risk from uh the from sun

induced skin cancer and can benefit

hugely from like things that will lower

blood pressure and lower lower

cardiovascular disease. like it seems

like you're not being fair to those

people.

>> Not only that, it makes you feel better,

which is very important just for sanity.

>> I mean, that I think that gets

underplayed like mood and happiness is

kind of the whole deal, right? And

there's just no question that uh sun

exposure makes you happier. I spent a

week uh with my friend Brian Callen and

Steve Manella in Alaska and Prince

Edwards Island and uh it rains there

like 350 days a year and we got rained

on for the entire week and then when I

came back to LA

uh I was driving around and the sun was

magnificent. It felt so good. I stood

outside I closed my eyes. I like

stretched my arms wide like I was just

taking it all in. And I called my friend

Steve up and I said, "Dude, because we

were in the rain for like a week." I go,

"I'm in LA right now in the sun and it

feels amazing. I never felt the sun like

this before." It's cuz like my body was

saying, "You didn't get enough of this

for a week. Now take it in and we're

going to reward you with all these

amazing endorphins and good feelings."

It's like if that was a drug, that drug

that I took, like if depressed people

could take whatever I felt when I was

out in the sun after a week in the rain,

they would take it every day. They It

would change the world. You like I could

feel like this all the time.

>> And it went away, you know, it went away

cuz LA, it's sunny all day long every

day, right?

>> So eventually I got accustomed to it.

But that feeling that I get that I got

after the week in the rain and coming

back and just be like ah

it was incredible. It was like a drug,

an amazing drug, a happy drug.

>> Yeah, it's a it's an awesome drug. And I

I've felt it for sure. You know, I

especially like early spring if I leave

Vermont and and I like have something in

LA. I'm just like like why is everyone

not just dancing on the streets? This

feels so good, you But the problem is

Los Angeles, they're so used to it.

Yeah. They're they're so spoiled.

Everyone there is so spoiled

weatherwise. It's the perfect weather on

Earth. It's It's incredible. Especially

if you live in like Malibu where it bar

it barely even gets hot. So, you're

dealing with that cool ocean breeze and

it's sunny every day, you know, like Oh.

>> Yeah. But how about here? Like, do you

end up spending a lot of time outside

here or

>> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I do. But I'm

outdoors all the time. I work out

outside. I do a lot of farmers carries

outside. I I practice archery, so I

shoot my bow outside every day and I

love it. I It feel I feel better even

when it's hot out. I don't mind because

I'm really kind of accustomed to it

because of sauna use. I use a sauna

every day and I'm pretty religious about

it. Um so my body's really acclimated to

heat. So it doesn't really bother me

that much. I just bring a big jug of 64

ouncez jug of water with ice and

electrolytes and I just drink that while

I'm out there. Yeah.

>> So, I shoot my bow for an hour and a

half, two hours and 105° and I'm fine. I

love it.

>> I actually love that too. Yeah. Like as

a kid in Florida, you know, we'd play

basketball after school for hours in or

in summer it would be we 105 degrees and

then you just kind of turn the hose. You

stick those in your mouth for quite a

long time, you know.

>> Yeah. I mean, it feels great. It's just

you have to make sure you're not

dehydrated and you have to make sure you

don't burn. That's that's kind of all it

is.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's all it seems

to be. Um, but we do see like truckers

that uh, have you ever seen those?

>> You're talking about that famous photo.

>> Yeah,

>> that is a crazy photo.

>> Crazy photo. So, what we're referring to

is there's a photo of this trucker and

the left side of his face from the sun

coming in from the window looks like

he's 20 years older on his left side

than it is on his right side.

>> It's like It's like special effects.

Somebody melted the left side of his

face.

>> What's that all about? Yeah, there's the

guy.

>> That's literally nuts.

>> Yeah,

>> that's literally nuts.

>> Like left side is just sloping off

basically.

>> His left side looks like a

hundred-year-old man. Truck driver face

behind the wheel driving a truck. Damage

typically limited to the left side of

the face. So it's literally called truck

driver face.

>> Yeah. Now, so this that that that photo

and that study got used to like scare

the [ __ ] out of a lot of people, try to

keep them out of the sun,

>> especially people that are vain and

don't want that [ __ ] up wrinkly face.

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Whoa, that's crazy. Look at the

difference between Wow. That's literally

bananas. What So what they're showing

back and forth is uh they're just taking

the skin from the left side of the face

and switching sides. So you can see how

much damage he's

received on that side, the driver's

side.

>> Yeah. And so there's a couple

interesting things there. One, um that

is shocking, but the question to ask is

why doesn't every trucker look like

that, right? Like if that's the problem,

why does why did why him? like cuz I've

been driving in a car for 45 years and

you know my face is

>> the same on the left as it is on the

right

>> kind of hanging in there. But um but the

other thing is window glass I think is

actually a really interesting problem to

talk about.

>> Yeah.

>> Um because window glass blocks UVB but

not UVA and there's two different

wavelengths of UV.

>> The UVB is the super high energy one.

UVA is a little bit low lower. It's kind

of on the way to blue. Um, and they used

to think back in the day that UVB was

the only one that caused skin cancer.

And those old sunscreens that we used in

the 70s and 80s only blocked UVB. Window

glass blocks UVB

blocks only part of the UVA. So, anytime

you're driving or you're hanging out in

a window in your house, you're getting a

bunch of UVA. You're not going to burn

because UVB is the one that causes

burning, but you're still going to get a

bunch of UVA, which they figured out

like in the 90s does cause skin cancer.

>> Oh, wow.

>> So,

>> so sun through the windows,

>> sun through the windows

>> is not as good as sun outside.

>> Um, it it blocks the UVB, but the UVA

comes through, but you'll never you'll

never have a burn reaction because of

it. So,

>> but you might be getting damaged.

>> Yeah. And so like uh in the in the US

people get slightly more slightly higher

rates of skin cancer on the left side of

their body. In the UK they get slightly

higher rates of skin cancer on the right

side of

>> aha because they drive on the opposite

side of the road.

>> Yeah. So window glass is

>> slightly

>> slightly it's like 52 48. It's not not

huge.

>> Okay. But it's statistically

significant.

>> Statistically significant. Yeah.

>> Huh. So, do you think it's this guy's

particular genes?

>> There must be something weird about that

guy,

>> right? Well, how many instances of truck

driver face do they have?

>> I just Googled the the condition, and

it's only him coming up in the photos.

>> So, this is the thing.

>> One lady, but I don't She clearly

doesn't seem to have the same issue. I

don't

>> There's a lot of truck drivers that have

been doing it for 50 years. That's not

the same thing.

>> Oh, that's not real. Is that real?

>> It's a different thing. She's got

Something's wrong with her jaw. Oh,

>> but it's coming up as the same uh

condition. Unilateral derma

>> dermat. I can't see.

>> Oh, so she had some sort of cancer that

made her way its way into her jaw.

>> But I can't I would have assumed that

more cases would pop up, but it's

literally just him.

>> So that's the thing. It's the the real

question is what's up with that dude.

>> Yeah. Interesting.

>> Different truck. That's not the I don't

think that's the same guy.

>> No, it doesn't seem like the same

person, but might be. It's hard to say.

different lighting.

>> But so the thing is if so those

sunscreens

that were acting kind of like window

glass in the 70s and 80s and even into

the 90s before we got the broadspectrum

sunscreens,

>> they're blocking the UVB. So you weren't

going to ever burn. And that's what SPF

uh actually measures is how many more

times you can be out in the sun without

burning. So if you got but it's based

totally on UVB. So if you got SPF 30, in

theory, you can spend 30 times as long

outside before you start to burn. That's

a long time, right? Um, but all that

time UVA is just pouring into you and

they now know that UVA is the one that

probably is most likely to cause

melanoma.

>> Oh, that's crazy.

Wow. So, sunscreen. Now, I use a natural

sunscreen when I use it at all. It's the

stuff that's like beef tallow based and

has zinc in it. It's very white and

obvious, you know. It's the the spray

stuff goes on clear. You can't even tell

you have it on. Yeah.

>> But it's very effective. But I'm always

like super hesitant. I'm like, what

what's in that stuff that we're going to

find out 15 20 years from now? Like if

it can block the sun. So it's a chemical

and you're spraying this chemical on an

organ, which is your skin. So your your

skin's absorbing it. I'm like, what

what's going on there?

>> And they used to say, oh, no, no, that

it's not absorbed very much. And then

the uh FDA CDC did studies a few years

ago and discovered that it's absorbed at

very large amounts like yes it it turns

up at at high doses or or higher doses

than they would like it to in blood,

breast milk, urine, you name it.

>> What specifically turns up and what's

dangerous about it?

>> So they're suspected to be hormone

disruptors. All those classic chemical

filters like oxyenzone

>> um

there There isn't a there isn't much

proof that they're uh dangerous in the

amounts used, but they're they

definitely are absorbed at much higher

rates than we thought. And the FDA has

refused to approve them as safe

um pending more testing.

>> And nobody's done the testing.

>> Oh.

>> But they're about to get phased out

anyway. like just as of a couple months

ago um the uh the government changed the

rules and is going to let in for the

first time in 30 years new ingredients

which they've been using in Europe and

Asia and Australia for decades and the

sunscreen companies have been asking to

use them and haven't been allowed to but

now they're finally going to get to use

one like one of the main ones

>> and what are these ingredients? So, it's

called like Bemot Trizenol or something.

Um, and there's another one that you see

in the in Europe called like um Mexeril

400, but they're way better. Like

basically US sunscreens are a generation

behind everyone else because in the US

sunscreens are regulated as overcounter

drugs.

>> Beotisenol. Yeah,

>> highly effective broadspectctrum UV

filtered blocks both UVA U and UVB.

Approved by FDA as overthec counter

sunscreen ingredient in June of 2026. Oh

wow. So this month

>> just happened. Yeah.

>> Celebrated for being highly photostable,

doesn't break down the sun, transparent

on the skin without leaving a white

cast, and gentle on sensitive skin.

>> So this is RFK Jr. stuff.

>> Yeah, this one looks really good. Um,

>> so this other stuff that is has been in

there, why didn't it get examined if

Europe and Asia and all these other

places were using these different safer

versions? Yeah, they all bailed on it

long ago. Um because it was all we had

and um

>> damn it, that drives me crazy.

>> Yeah. Well, so so it's because so FDA so

in the US sunscreens are regulated as as

drugs, overcounter drugs. So you have to

do all this safety testing if you want

to get a new ingredient in. Everywhere

else they're just cosmetics, so you can

use kind of whatever you want um with

more minimal safety testing. So the the

companies wanted to use the stuff in the

US forever, but the FDA said, "Sure,

just, you know, do the testing, but they

didn't want to do it was too expensive

to do the testing. They would have to

test it on animals. They didn't want to

get the blowback on that. There are a

bunch of reasons that they weren't

willing to do it. Also, I think they're

a little scared what they might find."

Um, so anyway, so our our sunscreens

have not been nearly as good as what's

used elsewhere um in both in terms of

performance and like maybe safety uh

suspicions. So that that's going to

change by the end of this year. It's

going to get better.

>> Well, that's good. Are there with the

traditional sunscreen ingredients that

we used to use, is there any negative

health consequences of using them that

they've shown? Like is there any

diseases that occur more readily or more

frequently? Um, not that have been

proven. There's like toxicologists are a

little suspicious about some of them.

Like they've definitely been shown to to

mess up coral, right? Like people

>> coral reefs, right? Yeah. That's one of

the things they found after CO, right?

They used to think they used to think

that it was the warming of the

environment. This was one of the things

that climate change people used to say.

The climate change is what's destroying

the coral reefs. We're lo and then it

turns out actually it's all these people

that have sunscreen all over their body

and they jump in the ocean and they're

essentially poisoning the reef.

>> Yeah. I mean it's all the above I'm

pretty sure. But uh but yeah, the

sunscreen at at that kind of

concentration if you got a you know a

bazillion snorkelers in the water can

definitely mess up the car pretty bad.

>> Yeah. Wasn't there some sort of a study

that examined what happened to the reef

after COVID? There was one particular

roof reef that was in a this highly

visited area where people would jump in

and they showed a a massive increase in

in the reef after co

>> Yeah. Hawaii Hawaii banned use of those

sunscreen. A bunch of places banned uh

banned those that style of sunscreen. Um

but the uh

>> but they they don't really check your

bags though.

>> Yeah. Right. You know what I mean? When

they say banned, like people are going

to take it anyway,

>> but it doesn't look like I don't think

it has much impact on uh on us unless

you're using a ton of it, which of

course now some people are.

>> So, it's not great for you, but it's not

the worst.

>> Yeah. There's been a bunch of studies

that just looked at like lifespan and

sunscreen doesn't seem to have any

impact whatsoever, like positive or

negative on lifespan.

>> So, it just might have some sort of an

impact on hormonal function.

>> Yeah, it could. Well, um,

>> endocrine disruption.

>> Endocrine disruption. There's a guy

named Graham Peasley at Notre Dame who,

um, found that, uh, many, many cosmetic

products of all kinds are actually

contaminated with forever chemicals.

Um, and it's even if they don't have it

on the ingredients, like anything that's

like water resistant or super smooth,

it's quite possibly going to have

forever chemicals in it. And some of it

is actually coming from the plastic

containers cuz those get um they

basically get like florinated with this

like florine gas before they get

anything in them, which is supposed to

make them like a little smoother. the in

inside of the containers, but it turns

out that actually leaks forever

chemicals into the product, whatever's

in there.

>> That's what he found.

>> Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, this is

a problem with hot coffee when you're

drinking it out of a paper cup.

>> Very similar. Yeah.

>> Yeah. People don't realize like the

paper cup is not capable of keeping that

liquid.

>> It would turn to mush.

>> And the reason why it doesn't turn to

mush is because there's essentially a

condom

>> like around the inside of the coffee

cup. And you know, Paul Saladino broke a

coffee cup down to show what it looks

like on the inside. You're like, "Oh no,

you're pouring hot liquid into plastic,

which you're never supposed to do." And

it's also like most coffee machines.

Like a giant percentage of coffee

machines have just plastic everywhere. I

got rid of mine. That's why we use

French press at the studio. And I use

that at home, too. And I have one of

those little arrow presses to make an

individual cup of coffee.

>> Yeah. It's like the plastic is a real

problem and heating it is terrible. We

We know that about water bottles. Like

you're never supposed to drink out of a

water bottle that you leave in the hot

sun in your car.

>> So now picture that bottle of sunscreen

that's sitting in your car, right?

>> Cooking. Yeah.

>> And it and leeching into the the uh

material.

>> Yuck. Yeah. Not good. People don't think

of the skin as an organ. And um I was

explaining to a friend of mine the other

day, he was using um hand wash, that

that [ __ ] hand sanitizer stuff. And

I'm like, man, I don't think that's good

for you. I'm like, I think if you want

to wash your hands, you should just use

soap and water. And then I read this

article about it. Like, oh yeah, that's

a toxic chemical. like hand sanitizer

when you're using it every day, you're

essentially exposing your skin, your

organ to this like what what exactly is

in hand sanitizer and is it bad for you?

Because I I remember this article, but I

I just like went over the headline and

briefly started reading it and then I I

had to do something and I put a bookmark

to it. I was going to go back to it

later and I never did.

>> Oh, okay. I thought you were going to

say like something happened to the

bookmark.

>> No, no, no, no, no. I just I never went

back to it. But I remember during the

COVID times, everybody was just like

hand sanitizer everywhere. I'm like, I

just don't think that can be good for

you.

>> I mean, anything that's antibiotic,

right? Anything that's killing

biological life probably you want to be

at least a little bit hesitant with.

>> Mostly alcohol.

>> Mostly alcohol. Well, even alcohol going

through your skin like that. uh

isopropyl alcohol sometimes used instead

of or with ethanol similar levels and

then this word benzol canonium

chloride uh in many alcohol-free

products.

All right. Um but see if you can find

articles on the dangers of using hand

sanitizer because this is what I had

read

briefly. Uh,

people overuse it, you're going to [ __ ]

up your skin biome. But I don't

>> Yeah, that's what it's saying. Overuse.

>> I just that's I just know that. I don't

>> I know a guy's got um OCD and uh he's um

you know hypochondriact a little bit and

he uses hand sanitizer all the time.

It's kind of crazy. And uh a

>> a friend of mine without knowing went to

look at his house cuz his house was for

sale. And he's looking at the house.

He's like this very nice house. and he

opens up a closet and one of the closets

was filled with hand sanitizer and he

got so freaked out he didn't want to

live in the house anymore. He's like, I

don't want to buy this house. Like this

guy like whatever weird thing he's

possessed with that he needs 50,000

[ __ ] bottles of hand sanitizer.

>> Issues are just overuse and then don't

not use it on your hands obviously.

Don't breathe it, don't drink it,

>> right? Only use it on your hands. Yeah.

>> But Jamie's right on the skin uh biome.

Skin biome turning out to be really

important. Like there's um you know they

call it the gut skin act a exis where

your skin microbiome and your gut

microbiome are like chatting all the

time

>> and

you that you you can change the

composition of your skin microbiome

based on all kinds of stuff like

products, sun exposure, you know,

everything you do.

>> Probiotics.

>> Probiotics. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Well, in the jiu-jitsu world, um, in the

the early 2000s, people started really

getting into probiotics. They started

really getting into acidophilus, yogurt,

kimchi, fermented vegetables, and stuff

like that just to prevent skin issues.

>> Interesting.

>> Because jiu-jitsu, because you're you're

getting scratched up and you're rolling

around and there's a lot of infections

and a lot of people get not just

infections like staff infection, but

they also get ringorm and a bunch of