I was letting this part of my nature die

underneath all these lies I was telling

myself. And life told me in that moment,

it gave me the message clear. Face the

fear or we're going to give you louder

warning signals. The pain's going to get

worse until you wake up. So, I had a

choice, a crossroads. It was like, I'm

either going to change my emotional set

point. I'm going to stop lying to

myself, which I had these stories. I'm

going to avoid in person. relationships

are hard, you know, my relationships

don't work out. Give up all these

stories rooted in the past, rooted in

fear, and step into who I really am. 60

years old and people knock on the door,

Mike, how you doing? I got a big fake

smile on my face. I'm doing good, but

inside I'm a I'm a lonely man. That's

where my life was headed.

>> My gosh, bro. or is face the fear and

it's a whole bunch of expansion, growth,

freedom, beauty, joy, faith, love, some

pain also, right? There's pain on the

journey, but way less suffering, right?

And so that was it. That was the turning

point and I have not looked back.

All right, welcome back to the show

everybody. So, I was thinking about this

guy this morning. I'm so excited. I got

to talk with him. I've been waiting

about six months to do it. I think he's

the most interesting man in the world.

You guys remember those Doseekis

commercials where the guy's like the

most interesting man in the world? I'm

pretty sure this guy qualifies and I'm

not exaggerating when I say that. This

is going to be such a compelling

conversation today. Let me throw a few

things at you. Grammy nominated. I took

a pill in a beza. You all know that

song. Cooler than me. Great song. That's

just two of a whole bunch of them,

right? But on top of that, the same guy

who's done all that, he's climbed Mount

Everest. He's done the 31 mile

Continental Divide trail journey trek.

He's hiked across America 2900 plus

miles. He's been bitten by a rattlesnake

on top of it and almost died. And he's

like got this very gentle, kind spirit

about him. He's also gone through like a

major life transition as well. But like,

and this is all in 37 years, so I'm

pretty sure he qualifies for the

category. Mike Pner, finally, welcome to

the show, brother. Great to have you.

>> Hey, and good good to meet you and

thanks for having me on. And you know,

um, it's humbling to hear that

introduction,

but you know, all those things that I've

done, they've been amazing, and I'm

mostly proud of them. Although I'm also

keenly aware that some non-trivial part

of the inspiration to do them was I was

addicted to getting other people to like

me and

they're not my biggest accomplishment.

The even all those add up together on

the external. My biggest accomplishment

is I went from somebody whose emotional

home base, their set point,

was depressed, was negative

to somebody whose emotional set point

now is joy, faith, and love. And

not saying I don't dip down every once

in a while, and sometimes I go even

higher, you know, have moments of bliss

and ecstasy. But you can change your

emotional set point. And that's my

greatest achievement.

And I hope um I hope that we can put

other people on the path of doing the

same thing because it's possible. If my

if my depraved rear end could do it,

then anybody can.

>> I've had 850 shows. I think that's

literally the best opening sentence of

any guest out of 850. No disrespect. We

usually ease into the good stuff. You're

already getting off to a fast start

here.

>> Sorry.

>> No, it's awesome, man. So, let me ask

you. Let's just let's just start there.

We're going to let this thing flow. By

the way, I relate to that set point

being kind of dep I don't know if I'd

call mine depressed. I'd call it kind of

melancholy.

>> Yeah.

>> You know what I mean? I I relate to that

very much and I think a lot of people

do. So, is there some way you would say

initially there was a catalyst to change

that? Did you hit a bottom of some type

or and what did you do to begin the

journey upwards?

>> Yeah, man. Like I had accomplished all

these things. I had walked across

America. I climbed the tallest mountain

in the world Everest. I had millions of

dollars, millions of followers,

everything that a perfect life was

supposed to be on the outside.

>> Even listen to this, I even had an

Instagram account full of followers that

I had convinced I was inspiring,

right? I was already, you know,

teaching, selling people to dream that I

got it figured out. And then I remember

I was at my home in Michigan

and

it it just was like the ju the juice

ain't here.

>> I am and I remember this year

I was eating clean. I was doing the ice

bath. I wasn't actually my body looked

beautiful but I kept getting sick

>> and I kept getting depressed and I

couldn't figure out why. Like what what

is what is missing here?

I got everything on the external

including the supposed to be health

right I'm doing all the right stuff and

what is not working but something was

not working and everything was

irritating me I got this lakefront home

I'd get out of the ice bath I'd look in

the reflection on the sliding door and

like if my abs didn't look just perfect

I was upset with myself something's

wrong I'd go in that sliding door and my

mom was there cuz I knew what a good

person was supposed to act like a good

person that they're kind to their mother

there. So, I had invited my mom up to

stay at the house for a week, but she

was putting some dishes away and the

sound of the dishes clanging against

each other. It was like sandpaper

grading against my my very being. Like

everything irritated me. And then I

remember I went downstairs and I I

checked my phone and I had a message

from uh one of my managers at the time

and it was a screenshot and he goes, "I

just need to know if this is true." And

it was a screenshot of from Instagram

and someone said uh a a singer who

walked across America got my friend

pregnant and abandoned the child.

And I said

I knew I didn't abandon a child because

I would never do that.

But the way I was living my life,

I wasn't sure that I hadn't had a child

and maybe the person just never told me

cuz I was being sloppy with my energy

and I was afraid of intimacy. So I would

get in weird relationships, one night

stands on the road, things like this.

And I I wasn't sure. I'm like, "Dude, do

I have a kid out there?"

And the stress of all these things start

add on to one thing after another. And I

I I called my friend Doug and I go, "Hey

man, like I need help.

I I I either need like a the highlevel

therapist cuz you know I have I have a

freaking ego right at the time. Like I'm

special. So I need like some special

therapist who like knows about famous

people or I need some highle life coach,

you know, that gets it."

So Doug, he goes, "Well, you could just

talk to me." I said, "With all due

respect, he's one of my best friends." I

go, "You're about to have a child." And

I got I got a lot of problems.

So, if I had just one, come on. I' I'd

ask you for help. But these things are

stacking. And before I would get over

the one, another one was hitting. And

and and I was overwhelmed.

>> And I think a lot of people know that

feeling like I'm just underwater with

problems. Yes.

>> And

>> great description.

>> And so he said, "Okay." And a few days

passed and then he forward forwarded me

a voice note. And the voice note was

from Tony Robbins.

>> And Tony said, "Mike Doug shared a

little bit with me about your story and

I'd be honored if you came to my event,

Date with Destiny, as my guest in

December." And it it was like, you know,

August. I was like, "What the hell do I

do till then, you know? Right.

>> But uh and I almost didn't go. I was

like, man, that's kind of far. But

that's my whole life was like

just kind of negative. I'd look for the

negative in it.

>> So anyways, Doug said, "You got to go,

man." So in December came around, I I

went to the conference and I was a

little skeptical at first. I was sick

again and I was like, "Dude, should I

even like do this?" Listen,

there came a moment. I think it was the

third day of the conference and Tony's

leading some some exercise. By the way,

I love Tony. Changed my life.

>> Love Tony.

>> He he's leading some exercise and he

didn't teach this. He was doing some

kind of meditation thing like a

visualization and he didn't say this in

the in the activation, but it's like God

just spoke to me in the moment. It it

just landed in my nervous system in a

way I knew was true. It was like you are

getting sick, you are getting depressed

because you are avoiding the fact that

you are scared to death of

relationships. You're scared of

intimacy. And until you address that and

face that fear, life, hey, life, I'm

only giving you pain to wake you up

because I want you to go this way so you

can have what you actually deserve, what

you're actually here for.

>> Yeah.

>> You got to stop lying to yourself.

Because I had this whole story, you

know, if if love happens, great, but I'm

not really looking for it. The truth and

I believed myself, but the truth

underneath all that was I I I really

wanted to have love. I really wanted to

have a family. I was I'm here to have a

family. You know, we we as men, we're

here to provide. We're here to protect,

right? It's part of our nature.

>> And so, I was letting this part of my

nature die underneath all these lies I

was telling myself. and life told me in

that moment or you know I call it God I

believe in God but for some people maybe

they don't like that word the word

doesn't matter you know whether you call

it life with a capital L I think God and

life are in many ways synonymous I think

God life love maybe all one thing is

above my pay grade but whatever it is it

gave me the message clear face the fear

or we're going to give you louder

warnings signals. The pain's going to

get worse until you wake up. So, I had a

choice, a crossroads. It was like, I'm

either going to change my emotional set

point. I'm going to stop lying to

myself, which I had these stories. I'm

an avoidant person. Relationships are

hard. You know, my relationships don't

work out. Give up all these stories

rooted in the past, rooted in fear, and

step into who I really am, which is a

man, a leader. And it's one or the

other. you're gonna go that way. And I

knew where that was going to end. If I

if I kept going the way I was, I was

going to be the dude with, you know,

six-pack abs and millions of dollars at

his mansion alone.

>> Amen.

>> 60 years old and people knocking on the

door, Mike, how you doing? And I got a

big fake smile on my face. I'm doing

good, but inside I'm a I'm a lonely man.

That's where my life was headed.

>> My gosh, bro. and and or is face the

fear and it's a whole bunch of

expansion, growth, freedom, beauty, joy,

faith, love, some pain also, right?

There's pain on the journey, but way

less suffering, right? And so that was

it. That was the turning point. And I

have not looked back. It's been I think

three plus years since that moment and I

cured my own depression.

>> Wow. I want to ask you that. That was

>> Whoa. Here we go. So, I want to ask you

about that. Um, first off, this story

thing everybody is real. This story you

tell yourself about yourself and your

life, you're doing everything in your

personal power you possibly can to quote

Tony personal power um to confirm the

story and make it true.

>> Amen. happens is you validate it over

and over and over again to find more

proof. That's your reticular activating

system in your brain. It's scanning your

environment to find more and more proof

that what you're saying about you is

true. That's why that old adage of if

you believe it, it's true actually comes

to fruition. But I want to go back a

second. We'll talk about what you did to

shift. But before we do it, I want to

ask you something and maybe you haven't

considered this, maybe you have, but

I too relate to that. I had a story one

time. I was building my first like big

home. Just great blessing. I'd had

financial resources for the first time

building this mansion. It's just a

stressful day. I was mad at the

contractor. We had just lost a business

deal. And I'll never forget it. I walk

in the living room of this house that's

being built and I'm just furious, right?

And if the quality of your life is the

quality of your emotions, I was losing

big time. And in the kitchen, building

my kitchen were these about six men.

They had mariachi music playing. They

were dancing. They were working. They

were doing work they were great at, that

they were proud of.

And they were joyous and blissful and

passionate. And I remember standing

there like an idiot in the middle of

this house under construction going,

"They're winning in life and I'm

losing." But on Instagram, I'm the dude

with the mansion, but I'm the dude

living in these emotions of stress,

fear, anxiety, worry. These men live in

bliss. And I remember going, you better

change something right here. And in my

case, this is what I want to ask you

about. I want to meet you in the middle

here. I had to try to figure out why I

was this way first. And maybe that's not

relevant. Maybe you just decide to

change. But in my case, I realized

something about me since I was a little

boy. And I think a lot of people do

this. I confused significance or

recognition with love.

Meaning when I when I was a little boy,

if I brought home an A or I hit a home

run or I had big muscles when I got

older, I got what felt like love. It's

like superficial love, acknowledgement.

And so in my little brain, significance

and recognition was love, except it's

not. They're two totally different

things. So I was great at significance,

terrible at feeling loved or giving

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Yeah, of course. I organized, you know,

first two and a half, maybe three

decades of my life around it. You know,

why do you think us uh you know, artists

become artists? You know, it's like we

want that hit of significance from the

audience. We we we have often some

psychological

flaw that we haven't cleaned up yet. And

we want to manipulate the audience to

giving that fake love or the attention,

that significance, so we don't have to

look at that thing.

>> And so that's unfortunately

a large percentage of the artists we

have.

>> They they don't feel the love, the real

love, and so they're trying to outsource

it, crowdsource it, right? And I I'm not

saying that with judgment because I did

it for years and sometimes to be honest

it'll try to rear its head to this day

and I say hey you know I love you but

you're not you don't get to drive the

car anymore you know and so I talk about

the three stages of artistry and their

relationship with their fans and it

probably applies to influencers

podcasters things too but you know I

come from the the music world so I say

the first stage is puppy love. You start

to get some recognition and you go,

"Wow, like this is incredible." And what

could ever go wrong with this? Like I

actually maybe I don't even need to have

a wife or a girlfriend cuz I get all

this love. Like I feel so filled up from

these strangers who all see the essence

of how great I am. And if you've done

great work, that's true. they're only

seeing your essence and not all your,

you know, your your flaws. And so

there's some there's something to that

because you're presenting the the the

jewel inside yourself in your art and a

bunch of people are relating to that and

you're getting this attention back and

acknowledgement. So that's stage one,

puppy love. Stage two I call

disillusionment because something

happens where you go

dude

some of those people

they don't like me they're not paying

attention anymore there there could be a

dip in popularity and just go wow this

changes

>> or some people

flip and they they go from liking you to

hating you or some people just come out

of nowhere and they they're hating you.

So this is man I thought I had this

security from this this significance but

now it's gone and that's painful that's

why I call it disillusionment

now a lot of people get stuck there and

they get in this lovehate relationship

with their audience but there's a third

level a third stage in that service it's

going okay once I actually address the

thing that you just got clear on you

addressed it. Hey, this came from when I

was a child. And you know, I'm going to

stop I'm gonna stop living under that

programming because it's just

programming that I've that I've operated

under for years. And we can change any

habit. We can change any It's one of the

things I love about Tony. You know, I

don't have a disease. Depression was a

disease I had. It's not something I had.

It's something I did.

>> Yeah. And so you get clear on in stage

three, you get clear on, okay, what what

are these flaws or these pain points

that maybe come from childhood and

sometimes and they even come from before

childhood. Sometimes they come from your

mom's childhood. I mean, I know for sure

there's some some stuff that I picked up

from my mom and when I was in my early

20s, I was kind of like upset with her

about it. But then when I learned more

about her, I say, "You got it from your

mama." And then I and then it probably,

you know, went on from there. So

sometimes it's not even us, but it's up

to us to to to end the cycle. So you get

clear on, okay, what are my pain points?

What are these old stories? What is the

new ones I'm going to tell? And and

where am I going to start real

relationships with real love? And then

I'm going to go back to my audience and

I'm actually going to serve them. It's

not about manipulating them anymore to

get this hit of significance. It becomes

about what can I give and it's it be can

become one of the great joys of your

life. And it doesn't replace a primary

relationship or your family, but it's a

place for you to pour love out and

contribute.

>> So true, brother. By the way, I don't

think I think you could replace artist

with human. I think most humans are

figure well if I get enough money or I

get a bigger house or I got the right

shoes or you know people look up to me

I'm going to feel different about me.

This thing you just said on significance

I can tell you an inside thing it's

interesting. Rob Deerick is a good

friend. He's been on the show a couple

times and we had this running thing

because this is a topic once you have a

breakthrough in your life that you

really discuss with one another. And so

I remember telling him I go man I'm not

into significance anymore recognition.

He's like, "Me either." Like almost like

we were above it, right? And uh so we

went like 6 months bantering back and

forth about how evolved we had both

become, you know, and we're at a Rams

game together and our wives were sitting

in between us and I can't hear him. And

he's like, "Hey, hey." And I'm, you

know, I go, "What?" He goes, and finally

I can't hear him. I go, "What do you

say?" He goes, "I'm a liar." And I go,

"What are you talking about?" He goes,

"Let's go get a hot dog and I'll tell

you." And we walk up. He goes, "Bro, I

still love significance and

recognition." I go, "Good, dude. I'm so

sick of lying about this. So do I.

Right? But he said something what you

just said. He said, "But I get it now by

contributing." So I feel significant

when I'm giving.

>> That's the difference, bro. And so I

think I get it in a healthy way now.

>> That's it.

>> And he goes, "And that contribution is

because I love people." And so it's just

a subtle loop that changes. But this is

like one of the more profound

conversations we've had on the show

because I think this is just humans. I

don't think it's just singing. or just

speaking on stage like I do. I think

it's human nature to be this way. So,

let me ask you, I mean, this is a broad

question, but if someone was listening

this going, "Bro, I'm with you." And I

live kind of in a lower state of being a

lot where I'm down or melancholy or

worried or anxiety or all the way to

depression like you've described. And

they said to me, "Hey, brother, like

what what what what do I do? What do I

do?" What would you say to that person?

I would ask them four questions but they

can answer the questions themselves you

know so they I would

ch challenge or invite that person to

ask themselves these four questions

the first comes from my buddy Chris War

wrote the book Chris beat cancer it's an

incredible book he cured himself of

cancer without western medicine and he's

helped thousands of others to to repeat

this miracle

And he credits his entire journey of

healing

back to I think he was getting a a

massage or a Reiki or someone. He went

to get some body work done and the

healer asked him this question. They go

before we start this journey.

I got to know do you want to live?

>> Yes or no?

And most of us have never really asked

that question seriously to each to

ourselves because you know these things

build up. You talked about them earlier.

These micro resentments. There's a

little bit of feeling a lot of us have

of hey you know I'll do this but I don't

really want to. I'm here but I I should

be doing something else. And it's so

it's so ubiquitous in a lot of our

experience of life that it's just kind

of running in the background. And a lot

of us think that it's it's actually part

of life. It's not part of life. It's an

impediment of life. And so

most people answer that question yes,

but they realize like there's something

sort of not as good as they they think

it should be. And that

>> that part I'll go on a small side

tangent and I get back to question two.

that part of oneself

that goes,

"Hey, I I think I think my life is

supposed to feel better than it does."

Where does that come from? Because

that's really interesting. A lot of us

have this idea that life should feel

better than it does. And and but better

in a way that maybe we've never even

experienced. So, how is the mind telling

us about some experience that we don't

know anything about? Right? Like, so I

have a theory. I don't know if it's

right, but I think it's right. And I

think it comes from beyond the mind. I

think that feeling is is true. I think

that's our soul. Or if you don't like

that word, your higher self or like your

deeper self going, "Hey, there's more

for you here." And the pain you feel is

actually the chasm

between where you are and where on some

level you know life should be not

externally but the feeling the

experience of life right it's like when

you see those guys working on the house

the pain isn't just that you felt anger

that day because we all feel anger

sometime the pain is something's

recognizing

there's a chasm here and and the amount

the the further the wider the chasm, the

more the pain.

So

I think that part of ourselves is

correct and it's a larger part of

ourselves calling us to grow, calling us

to become more. So that's that's the end

of the tangent. Now what's the second

question?

>> The first question was, do you want to

live? Yes or no? The second question is

if yes, and most people say yes,

>> why?

Why?

And this question

it comes from

Victor Frankle and Chris asked it also

but it's man's search for meaning you

know and would n say he who has a why

can endure almost any circumstance any

how any condition can overcome anything

and

all of us have a purpose of being here

but not all of us have uncovered it yet

and by the way it changes your purpose

when you're 15 is not the same as your

purpose when you're 30 and it might

change week to week and Victor Frankle

talks about that in the book. He goes

stop measuring life and saying life

isn't meeting my expectations and start

asking what does life expect of me?

>> Oh wow.

>> What does life expect of me in this

moment? And the purpose your purpose of

life might not be some overarching thing

some crazy. It might just be to hold

that old lady's hand to to look at that

child and it might be something very

immediate.

>> Yeah.

>> So, so that's the second question.

And the third question come my buddy uh

my buddy Elliot Bis now. So it comes

with a story. Am I rambling too long?

>> Not in the least.

>> Okay.

>> So the third question is came from

Elliott. I was at a point another low

point in my life. This low point came

before the one before. There was a bunch

of low points, right?

So, and so um I had reached this point

in my life where

my father had just passed away. A couple

of my my peers that I worked with in the

music industry, Avichi and Mac Miller,

they had just died.

And there was this feeling like

exactly what I just referred to, like

there there's something inside me that

I'm not expressing. Like there's some

difference between what I have to give

and what I'm actually giving.

>> And and it it doesn't feel good.

>> It feels like I'm wasting life. And I

got

um just reel down, reel down. And I I I

grew a big beard at the time. I just

turned 30. And I remember I had a new

album coming out and you know at at that

it was about maybe seven eight years

ago. At that time you would still go to

a lot of radio stations and you

basically smoo you know shake these guys

hand makes make you know pretend like

you're their best friend. And so then

they put your song on the radio and they

can get like these 12year-olds addicted

to your song and that's supposed to be

success. And I'm just like telling

Elliot, we were we were in Alaska on a

camping trip and I'm like, "Dude, I'm

done. Like, I don't I'm 30. I'm what am

I doing? I I don't want to play this

game anymore. Like, I'm I'm through. I

don't want to do it."

And

And when I say I'm done, I'm like, I was

really there, Ed. Like, I had thoughts

of like, I should kill myself.

>> Whoa. Like Like I I

There's something about how I'm showing

up in the world that feels like it's

taking away from the world, not adding

to it.

And so I I said to Elliot, I go, "Dude,

I don't want to do this anymore. I'm

done."

>> He looks at me, and by the way, I think

friendship is seeing another's potential

so clearly that they can see it

themselves.

>> So that's Elliot. He's incredible. and

and my like depressing words just kind

of like bounce off him as if he's got a

forest field. And he looks at me and he

goes

cuz I just told him, "I don't want to do

it. I don't want all this stuff." And he

goes, "What do you want?"

>> Yep.

>> I never I never asked that question. I'm

sitting here bouncing around my life

making lists and lists of what I don't

want. And if any of your listeners like

if your mind is like mine, by the way,

you're not your mind, but if your mind

is like mine, it creates lists of things

that happened in the past you didn't

want. It's got a list of things right

now that are happening you don't want.

And it even has a giant list of things

that haven't happened yet, but if they

did, you sure as heck wouldn't want

those, too. So, no wonder no wonder I

was miserable.

I sat there, I thought,

what do I want? What a question. And I

couldn't believe the words that came out

of my mouth. They were, "I want to walk

across America."

>> Well, I almost couldn't believe I said

it.

>> Had you ever thought that before?

>> Yeah. I had heard about a guy who had

done it five years ago and I remember I

thought that was that's pretty freaking

cool, you know? And then I just threw on

the back burner like it I thought maybe

I'll do it one day. But then I got back

to business as usual. Make album going

on tour. Make album going on tour. Make

album going on tour. And then in that

moment, he asked what I wanted and that

was the answer.

>> It came from beyond my mind. Like it

just I almost heard the words come out

of my mouth like as if someone else said

it. I was surprised. And I and I reeled

back cuz when I heard the words come out

of my mouth, I went

my mind came back in. I said to Elliot,

I said, "But you know, I told my manager

about this once, and he said it was a

crazy idea."

>> Elliot goes, "That's great news."

>> I like Elliot.

>> I like him, too. I said, "What do you

mean it's great news?" He goes, "That

your manager said it's a crazy idea." I

said, "What do you mean?" He goes, "You

got to understand, man. Not all crazy

ideas are great, but all great ideas are

crazy.

>> So good.

>> And he goes, "So your manager thing is

crazy is a great sign." He goes, "And I

think you walking across America is a

great idea."

So I eventually did that walk and it

changed my life. It didn't cure me in my

depression, but it gave me some some

amazing tools

>> and eventually put me on the path that

got me to where I did. M.

>> So that's question number three.

And um

>> I'm stealing that.

>> Steal it because I steal from him all

the time.

By the way, I asked him. I go later, you

know, cuz it was such a a deep moment. I

said cuz he's he's one of my best

friends. So I go, "Dude, dude, did you

make that up?" He goes, "What the not

crazy idea line?" And he goes, "I don't

know. Probably."

He didn't even know. So maybe he got it

from someplace else, but I I think he

did. I think

>> worthy of sharing to the world for sure.

>> I think he channeled it. But uh

>> the last question is is sort of just an

expansion on that which is you know what

really would make life worth living. So

I would start there you know answer

these four questions and and get a

little momentum focusing on what I do

want. you know what I do want. By the

way, it's best way to give someone

feedback, right? Don't tell them all the

things that they just did that piss you

off. Ask them to do what you want them

to do.

>> Hey, hey, this this would really make a

difference for me. It would light me up

if you did X, Y, or Z.

>> Works. So, life is rigged in a way where

where we get what we focus on. So, life

is rigged in such a way where when you

focus on what's wrong, you notice more

of what's wrong. You get more of what's

wrong. when you focus on what you want,

right? And Jesus said, "Pray as if

you've already received it,

>> right?

I think that's true." Right? We got all

this new age stuff came out about law of

attraction, right? And it's all true.

But Jesus was talking about it 2,000

years ago. Pray as if you've already

received it,

>> right? Um it didn't come from the

secret. And I love the secret, right?

But this concept has been around for a

long time and and it's true. We get what

we focus on. And so you got to get clear

on what you want. You got to get clear

on do you want to live? You got to get

clear on what's your purpose? What's

your why? Because without a why, dude, I

don't care. You can have the craziest

life. It'll turn to mush. It'll turn to

drudgery if you don't know what that why

is.

>> You got to get clear on what you do want

and what would make life really worth

living.

This is a master class, brother. I

didn't know we were going to go this

deep. Come on.

>> Thing I would add. I just want to keep

rifting and I want you to be doing both

the teaching here today. But you know,

everybody, this is what we're really

talking about is beginning to live your

life with some intention. Auditing where

you're at. Is this still my dream? Is

this still what I want? Is this what I

wanted when I was 15? But now I'm 30.

That's not what I want anymore. Right?

It's okay to audit your life and audit

and ask yourself these questions because

that's a life that's lived with

intention. That's a life when you get to

the end of it, you go, "Okay, I gave it

everything I had and and I maxed out my

life." But one where you just live

unconsciously with all of your patterns

running all of the time, it's just like

a book that's the same chapter on every

the same page, same chapter. Every time

you turn the page, it's the same

experience. So, if you want a different

experience, you got to ask different

questions. And one thing Tony does talk

about that I do as well is the quality

of your life is often the quality of

your emotions, but a lot of times your

emotions come from the questions you're

asking yourself.

>> Huge, huge.

>> You said something really profound

earlier that was like of a million

profound things and I'll mess up how you

said it. So explain. You said you're not

your thoughts or you you're not always

what's going on in your mind. You said

something like that. What did you mean

by that?

>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean this this

machine in our brains that's just saying

words, saying thoughts,

it's not who you are. It's some very

small part of your being

>> as as as a soul. You know what it

Shardan said? We're not human beings

having a spiritual experience. We're

spiritual beings having a human

experience. So the mind, right, was

evolved to keep us safe.

It's a scanning device often for what's

wrong.

Because

you know our ancestors,

if you believe in evolution, the ones

that scanned for what was wrong, that

noticed all this little sound or that

over, they were paranoid. They survived

because they noticed they noticed the

the potential danger when it occurred.

And so all of us have what's called a

negativity bias built in. Meaning we

tend to focus more on what's wrong

because this mind thing is here to keep

us alive.

>> It's not here to make us happy.

It's not designed to.

So if you live your whole life in your

mind,

you're not going to be fulfilled because

your soul is way bigger than than the

than the mind. And so I'm a big

meditator. Um I also love, you know, as

much as Tony equally in a different way,

Echartol who teaches we're not our mind.

Um,

>> and I don't know about you, but we

talked about earlier, you know, this

thing is always saying what you don't

want, but it's just always saying stuff

all day long.

>> And some of the stuff it says is great.

And some of the stuff it says is really

stupid. And most of what it says is very

repetitive. If you ever take a day, you

know, a lot a lot of people I've had

this blessed life with a lot of freedom.

So, I've been able to do weird

experiments. So, like I've gone to a a a

retreat center for a total of two months

of my life where they put you put you in

a little cabin and they just leave you

there and once a week they drop food off

in the bear box. So, you're take you're

taken care of the woods already chopped.

So you just sit there and you meditate

and and when I watched my mind just

sitting there for hours a day, seven

hours, it's like, hey, this thing, it's

often pretty negative. Not always, and

it's super repetitive.

>> Yes.

>> You ever take a day, if you ever take a

day, and I know not everyone has this

luxury, but even if you take two hours

and you just sit

down

with without your phone and you just

observe the thoughts in your head.

>> Uh I forget who had the quote. All of

humanity's problems stem from the fact

that a man and a woman too is the olden

days, right? Is that we cannot sit

quietly alone in a room.

>> So if you ever take just two hours and

just watch the thoughts you have, you'll

be amazed. First of all, you'll forget

you're doing it almost immediately and

you'll get carried away with your

thoughts. But then after a while you

notice it keeps thinking the same thing

and it's like so our culture

is almost

a monument

to rationality to the thinking mind.

Right? We we have

for better or worse

gotten away from the churches, the

synagogues, the mosqu and we worship

more the university, the scientist,

right? And science is amazing, right? It

makes all of our lives great and

comfortable, but it's not going to make

you fulfilled.

So, you are not your mind. I'm not my

mind. Ed is not his mind. We are the

consciousness. I'm the consciousness

that gets to move Mike Pner around. I'm

not even Mike Pner, right? That's like I

believe a costume that I'm wearing this

go around.

>> And

>> the more we can identify with the part

of ourselves is actually beyond

language, beyond words. You can just

feel it and in moments of quiet and

everyone's had these moments, Virginia

Wolf called these moments of being,

right? Everyone's had a moment where it

just made sense.

>> Yeah.

>> The the mind actually stopped. It was it

was pure. That's you. That's the real

you, right?

>> Tell you, can I just tell you this idea?

I just want to say this to you. I just

want to acknowledge you just for a

second. You you are making a difference.

This is a real contribution. I just want

you to know like legitimately like um

this is extraordinary what you're

sharing and um that's worth

acknowledging in you like God's really

using you Mike. I mean truly truly and

um you know everyone what Michael was

saying earlier about your brain and you

know these repetitive thoughts your mind

is always trying to move towards what

it's most familiar with and so if it's

familiar with these you know ruminations

of what you're worried about and afraid

of or not liking or not going well

you're going to get more of it because

your brain's designed to conserve

energy. It's lazy. And so that's why a

life that's not evaluated

is an unlived life. And so what we're

really talking about here is just the

gift of today because you are and you

and I are both blessed. We could go

somewhere for a week. Some people listen

going, I got three kids I got to pick up

from school. I got to do homework. I got

to take them to soccer. I got to get

back to work. But here's the thing. You

have to give yourself those couple hours

once a week somewhere to just sit with

yourself. Sit with God and just be you.

Be with you. And if you can't do that,

you have to ask yourself, why do I not

enjoy my own company?

Amen.

>> Why do I need other people around me all

the time? That's worth at least asking

why. And then I think it's building your

own recipe that causes change in you. So

I want to ask you about this and maybe

it's not one of the formulas, but as I

read about you, and I've known about you

obviously for a long time, but it's not

normal resume, bro. I mean, let's just

be honest. I mean, I haven't climbed

Mount Everest. I haven't walked across

the country. I haven't done the

Continental Divide. I almost haven't

died of a rattlesnake bite. I don't

have, you know, Grammy nominations. It's

like I'm just a dude with a flag behind

him doing a podcast, right? That's all I

am. But like, so I don't relate to all

of that. Having said all of that though,

humans develop sort of recipes to their

their wellness, their bliss. If you look

at your life, it looks to me like

challenging yourself to do something is

one of those recipes. It's like you it

appears as if part of you living your

life is a challenge that that then you

go pursue and see if you can expand your

being relative to the level of that

challenges. I I always say I'm addicted

to the expansion of my being, right? Is

is Thank you. is part of your formula

from time to time coming up with a

challenge for yourself to see what

you're capable of or is that something

in the past?

>> It's evolved. It's evolved but it's

definitely part of it. Right. and and

life will give you these challenges

anyways, right? So, it's like I like to

put challenges in my life. So, I'm

inviting in the grow. I like to set a

goal sometimes where I go, hey, the

version of me setting this goal cannot

do this. I actually have to become

some version of myself that I'm not now

in order to get this done. So, I like a

goal like that. Um, in the past they've

been some physical challenges, some

expeditions, things like that. But I'll

be honest with you, Ed, um, because I I,

you know, was a was an army of one for

so many years. The challenge now that,

you know, and I have somebody, you know,

I still run the alt and stuff right here

and there, right? It's it's important

for me to keep that sort of warrior part

of life, but the number one challenge,

right? I want to I want to be humble

today, right? Because it's like um I

receive what you said. I know God when

I'm at my best, God is working through

me, right? And not all the time because

sometimes my brain gets in the way. But

my challenge now is I'm building a

family,

>> you know? And some of the things that

I'm teaching today, dude, like when I'm

with my fiance, who's the most wonderful

woman in the world, I sometimes get

angry, right? I'm like, "Oh, where did

that come from? Oh, that's the part I

need to work on now." Right? That this

is like this is life pointing me in the

direction what I need to work on. And so

for me, when I said it evolves,

it's less about

going and do something doing something

really hard with my body. Although that

does that does do, you know, it's a

certain flavor of the expansion. But

having done a bunch of those, the one

that's more challenging for me is is

being less selfish, being in a family

unit, putting others before myself

doesn't come naturally to me because

I've been I've been doing the Mike Pner

thing for a lot of years, dude. Right.

And so that's where the the juice of my

life is now. It's the most challenging

part of my life now because I need to

grow the most to have the the family

that I that I want that I will have. Um,

so there's some pain in that for me and

I welcome it. And so the other things

have been training and the other thing

about

there's been a lot of external

achievements

in my life and like I said part of that

was by design. I wanted to become

somebody I was proud of. Part of that

was I wanted to, you know, get

attention. I wanted to be able to go in

the podcast have my like go, "Oh, he's

the most interesting." Right? So part of

it was not good motive. your

significance

and part of that I think is grace.

I think that listen

I want to share light with the world and

for some people they they'll listen to

me versus someone else because I got all

these things.

>> That's right.

>> And I got to report back, hey, I was

still at that Michigan house

>> depressed. I was still in Alaska with

Elliott thinking maybe I should kill

myself. And so

maybe I think so God gave me all those

blessings and then he gave me the pain

with it so I could teach from a place

not not from from having read it in a

book but from having lived it. Hey like

I got the external stuff but I wasn't

winning the internal game and you want

to be there. So, let me help you win the

internal game. And you can win the

external game, too. There's a lot He has

a lot of teachers on that, right? And

you can have both. But,

>> hey man, I agree with you. Like, I I

listen, some of us have just chose our

our giftedness, if we're great at it,

grabs attention. My sister, I think, is

the greatest school teacher. She's

actually an assistant principal now. Her

gift is to work with children, right?

She's she's expressing her gift and and

pushing the expansion of her being

daily. She's not going to get lots of

recognition for that gift. She'll get it

when she gets to heaven,

>> right? And so many of you, your

recognition won't be here. It's okay to

go chase money. There's nothing wrong

with that. There's nothing wrong with

want have a a big house. That's okay.

It's just what we're both telling you

is, but nothing's worse than a couple

rich people telling you it's not worth

getting rich. That's not right. It's

it's certainly better probably to have

financial means than not.

>> Correct.

>> If something's a goal of yours and you

and God work together to make it real,

that's that's wonderful. But when it

becomes your identity,

you will be empty. And so that's the the

difference. I'm just curious. I'm

watching you.

>> Well said. Well said.

>> Thank you. Well, you're an em you embody

it. I said it. So, um there's a

difference

>> some days.

>> So, I want to ask you, if id have met

you at 30, he's 37 when we're recording

this. You have a certain uh and

everyone's hearing it. There's a there's

a spirit about you that's I'd call it

wise like an old soul but very gentle.

There's a there's a peaceful spirit

about you. Had I met you seven years

ago, would that same spirit have been

present or have you sort of or has that

changed in you? In other words,

externally are you different also in the

way that you communicate, you vibrate,

you know, you go about your life? Has

there been a difference in that or did

you always have a little of that? I

>> I think there's a huge difference. I

mean, I feel way different. Um

my my frequency like we talked about my

set point 30 was that 30 was like that

conversation with Elliot

that was like and that's part of what I

want to share too with people like cuz

maybe there's someone listening to this

who's really in a tough moment.

like really in a tough moment

and maybe no one knows about it, but

keep going because at 30 I had no idea

it would be this good. Not ex not the

external stuff the I had no idea it

could feel this good and you can't have

a life without pain but you have a pain

with a lot less suffering. So at 30 to

answer your question I I I was go

through a lot of pain. I think I was

seeking a lot already. I was already in

the meditation. I already read. I'd

already spent a lot of time um seeking

out answers because I I I

was searching for them. I was just

getting ready to walk across America. Um

so I think I could probably spit some

spit some game at that point. But

looking back, was was I really

mastering that that the feeling part,

the internal part yet? No, I hadn't I

hadn't figured that out yet.

>> And I haven't fully figured it out now,

but I got it more figured out than them.

I relate to that. Is part of that

figuring it out. You talk about

relationships earlier. I just have this

feeling listening to you and I don't

know this that I have to believe. This

is just my belief system and you can

believe whatever you want everybody. I

love all of you. But doing this alone

without a knowing or a growing

relationship with your version of God

sure is hard. And for me,

you know, I'm where I'm at in my life

through God's grace. And I'm pretty bold

about that fact. I love people that, you

know, I love people. And so whatever

your faith choice is, that's not what

today's episode's about necessarily, but

I'd be making a huge miss if I didn't

ask you about that part of your life.

Um, has your relationship or

understanding of God changed over this

time as well? And is that a big is that

the most important relationship you have

or one of them?

>> Yeah, it's the most important and it has

changed. Um, I grew up

uh in a Jewish household, but I was

raised um what was called secular

humanistic. Meaning,

I went to Sunday school, but I wasn't

taught anything about God.

I asked my mom about this later. I said,

"Why didn't why did you raise us like

that?" She goes, "I I had a childhood

where a lot of stuff was forced on me."

And so we raised you that way, not

because I don't believe it. She believes

in God,

>> but we raised you that way because we

wanted you to make a decision when

you're an adult.

>> So actually that makes a lot of sense.

>> So

then um the spiritual part of my life

really started with uh my friend Big

Sean.

>> Big Sean. Yeah. Do you know Big Sean?

>> Yeah, I do. I know who he is. Yes. So he

and I, we met in Detroit when we were

kids.

>> So we're we're the same age. So I knew

him when I was 18. And then my music

started to to take off. Then his took

off and I saw him about we I think we're

probably 23 24 and he was like glowing

like like glowing and his the external

part of his life was exploding as well.

And I said to him, I'm like, "Dude, what

what what do you what changed?" He goes,

"You got to read two books. One was The

Alchemist."

>> Great book.

>> And the second one was asking it is

given. It was a book all about the law

of attraction.

>> So I read these books and they start

opening my eyes to have a spiritual part

of my life. I would run. I would say

well I used to be depressed. I would say

I am joy. I would say I am faith. I am

love.

And it it taught me to reframe

challenges when they came. But I learned

to ask this new question.

What am I supposed to learn from this?

>> Inherent in that question, you know,

assume the subtext is like there's

something out there that is is like

actually gifting me this experience.

Byron Katie says life life's not

happening for you. Excuse me. Life's not

happening to you. life's happening for

you, right?

>> Her book right there.

>> And so

that that was a big part of faith. And

then it it's it evolved like even it's

evolving.

Excuse me. Last year in 2025, I had some

excuse me, I had some wild experiences

with with Jesus moving in my life, signs

in my life. Um

like just I don't want to go. That's

like, you know, crazy, excuse me, crazy

stories, but just having wild signs

where Jesus was moving in my life. And

so, um, it's evolved so much and is

evolving. Um, but it is the most

important relationship. Louise Haye

says, "My security does not come from my

bank account, my spouse, or my parents.

It comes from my ability to connect to

all that is which I call God. Right?

>> And um that's the only place

I I'm always mess up this line from

scripture. Jesus says, you know, don't

store up your treasure where what rust

and thieves can get them or something. I

don't know the exact way to say it. But

what he means is

everything on in on this earth, it

changes. It goes away. You can't you

can't place your security in another

person. Even in my fiance, I love her.

If she could give me that security, she

would. But she's a human being, right?

She can't be exactly what I needed to be

at all time. And what kind of man would

I be, right? But that's what I needed.

So, you can only get that security from

one place and and that's God. And I

think that's what we're all searching

for. And it's a personal

it's a personal um relationship.

And um I'm like you. I I love people.

I'm here to just be a blessing. The more

we can realize, you know, our life

actually my life actually doesn't belong

to me.

>> That this higher power and and we talk

about not being the mind. I think that's

how you connect to it

faster, right? you you identify with

this part of you that's connected to it

and you start to live a life that I'm

stepping into more is scary for me and

where you just you just listen to that

thing as it guides you and sometimes it

speaks to us in dreams sometimes speak

to us in um through other human beings

and sometimes it speaks to us through

that still small voice inside us and

that's the life that I'm interested and

leading, not one that's like, "Hey, I

read this. This is the next step. Let me

go do that." No, it's like I I feel like

I'm on a on a magical journey and um and

the breadcrumbs get left for me by by

God. I I I just try to follow what it

says and here we are.

>> Bro, I'm sitting here emotional. I'm

being this quiet because um I can't

believe we've had this conversation

today. And I I I first off I just

remember this is you're afraid. Jesus

holds you in the palm of his hand. And

so he's always with you. He'll never

leave you nor forsake you. And so you

don't have to have that fear. But I know

exactly what you mean. I have it from

time to time as well. It just makes me

emotional to see this. The whole

conversation I've done 800 and some odd

900 of these. None have flown by this

quickly and none have I felt like I'm

just in the beginning,

not the end of this conversation. I

truly mean that. And um I'm going to

make you come back on here and do this

again.

>> I would love it. Be my pleasure

>> because bro, like uh you know, I'll just

tell you that you're being used for good

and um and you're remarkable. Just

accept that, please.

>> Thank you. And and I uh I also

something's out right now that we need

to talk about at the end because here's

the good thing about this conversation.

It's been so incredible. I I'm 100% sure

everybody stayed to the end. That's how

good this is. And I think everybody's

with me saying please come back. But

what's up with I went back to Aiza. We

need to know about this. So tell us.

>> Yeah, it is incredible. So it it's such

a blessing. you know, we talk about my

life story, you know, today and I get to

encapsulate a lot of these moments with

music, you know. So, you want to know

how I felt right at this moment at

Elliot where I'm thinking to a real good

kid. It's it's, you know, I made an

album, a lot of these chapters of life.

And so, when I look back on these this

body of work of music, it's pretty cool

because it's all there.

Um, but I I think it's 12 years ago now,

I wrote a song called I took a pill in a

beza and it was a very successful song

and it was a heartbreaking song about

how empty my life was having reached

fame but kind of on the other side of it

and the chorus was all I know are sad

songs

like maybe two years ago on my birthday

because I wrote the song on my birthday

26th birthday I I wrote an Instagram

post. I said, you know, 10 years had

gone by and this song, every lyric in it

is now untrue in my life.

>> Oh wow.

>> So I went through each line. I said, you

know what I was talking about in my life

at that time when it was honest and

vulnerable and it was real at the time.

I go, all these things have transformed

in 10 years. Like what a great what an

amazing 10 years. Thank you.

And

I had a guy that works me on social

media. So he would the post went viral.

So then he would like every six months

he would change the post, repost it up,

it'd go viral again. You know how they

do that, right? And they keep telling me

all this keeps going keeps being taking

off. People keep resonating with the

message. Finally, my fiance says to me,

"Why you keep doing this post about how

your life changed?" She goes, "Why don't

you rewrite the song with new words

about your life now?"

So I said, "Hey, I'm supposed to come up

with the song ideas, you know,

you're creep creeping in on my

territory." So I said, "This is a good

idea." So I did. So it came out, it just

came out more beautiful than I could

have imagined. So, um I'm I'm really

excited to share that song with the

world and uh people can go check it out.

It's called I I went back to Aiza and uh

it's about it's about transformation.

>> Okay. You're coming back to the Ed Mylet

show. I can tell you.

>> Yes, I am. Yes. I can't wait to meet you

in person, man.

>> Yeah, brother. Same here. We need to do

that. We'll do it soon, too. So,

everybody, I just sometimes already know

what your response is, so I'm not going

to add anything to today. This was

extraordinary. and um put this one in a

time capsule and uh I'm really grateful

for you, bro. Really grateful.

>> Grateful for you, too. God bless you.

>> God bless you, man. Hey, everybody. This

is This is why I do the show. It's why

this old man is still doing this thing

right now. It's days like today. This is

why I do the show right here. God bless

you everybody. Please share this. Max

out your life.