Now, you asked me to grab a glass of

wine, which I didn't do. I I ended up

grabbing a glass of gin.

Calonia Spirits Barill gin for anybody

who's curious. I do like my gin. B A R R

Hill. But this might surprise people,

and it surprised me because last time we

spoke, I think you had hit what was it 6

months sober. So what what is unfolding

before our very eyes?

>> Well, what's unfolding is a glass of

champagne is what's unfolding. But I

will say that I almost made it to seven

months, but then I just decided my my

original goal was 3 months and then I

made it to six. And you know, was I

going to continue to go on like this?

And I had hung out with some friends. We

had a dinner in San Francisco. And I

thought, you know, I'm going to have a

glass of veno. I'm just going to have a

glass of wine because there was a great

book, you know, the book Awareness,

which you've recommended to me.

>> It's one of my favorites. I have one of

my many copies downstairs right now.

>> Yeah. So, Anthony Dlo, Jesuit priest,

correct? Is that right? Jesuit priest

who is also a psychotherapist who is now

since passed, but incredibly incredibly

compelling writing. I'm sure we'll get

more into this

>> because I listened to the audio book you

recommended. So, we'll come back to

that.

>> Cool. Awesome.

>> But, all right. So, take us back to

>> the story you're telling. So, you're

sitting there at dinner.

>> Well, prior to that, I had relisted to

that book and I got it on audio. And one

of the things that hit me that he said

in the book was I know what it was. Can

I guess? Yeah, go for it. That

abstinence or renunciation is as much a

trap or can be as much a trap as

anything else because it ties you. It

binds you to the thing that you are

abstaining from.

>> That's exactly right. That's exactly

right. It makes it your lifelong enemy.

>> Yeah.

>> And it binds you to it.

>> And so you're like, "Fuck it, yolo.

Let's have some wine."

>> Well, I want to be bound to it. And I

did that with a glass of wine.

>> Break those chains.

>> Yeah. Exactly. The plan was never to be

sober for life. it was to re-evaluate my

relationship with alcohol and get to a

point where I could truly

>> say to anyone that asks, like the

cravings have gone away. And my goal

going forward is something I just call

the 222 rule, which is

>> maximum of two drinks in any given

night. Never two days in a row and then

>> two days a week. So just lightweight.

That's kind of my new thing. And then

also special occasions, like I want it

to be about a celebration of something

or a gathering it in some way that is

meaningful, not just because, you know,

a football game's on or something.

>> Well, first I have more to say, but

cheers. I have my little Japanese mug

full of Barhill Jin. Cheers.

>> Wait, wait, wait, wait. He likes

straight up Jin. That's just straight

Jin. I didn't have any ice. You've

inspired me to cut way back on my

drinking, so I haven't really had much.

I don't want to open a bottle of wine

that I'm not going to finish with

friends or something.

>> Yeah. I mean, you'll finish your bottle

of gin. So,

>> so I just grabbed what I had open, which

will stay good for a long while once

open, which was this gin. So, I'm not

going to drink a full glass of gin, but

I will have a sippers with you.

>> I think we're both going to be cheap

dates maybe then cuz we haven't drank in

a while. We might get really sloppy

really fast.

>> Yeah, very, very cheap dates. So, let me

follow up on this story and the 222

plan. How are you intending, if at all,

to catch yourself if you start slipping?

Do you have people who you want to hold

you accountable? Do you have some type

of calendar reminder in place? How do

you keep an eye on that? Recognizing

that you may very well be totally fine,

but given the history that you have, it

seems like it would be a good idea to

put some guard rails in there. I agree

with you wholeheartedly if my issue with

alcohol had been one of excess

consumption in that like I was never a

six or seven drink or even five drink

person

>> for me it was more consistency right

>> so the one that is easier to catch is

you wake up the next morning and you say

okay I'm just not drinking tonight

because you're catching it in a sober

state which is huge so the big foul that

I had over the last few years you know

especially start with COVID was just you

know two drinks a night maybe three and

just continuing that and taking like a

day or two off a week. That was

>> that's not healthy as my liver enzymes

would report back,

>> you know. Yeah.

>> So, I'm not as concerned about that. But

also, you know, I've talked to my

therapist about this and she's amazing

and she's like, "Hey, I'm I'm going to

check in with you and just make sure

that you're truly sticking to this." But

I I think an accountability partner is

absolutely a necessity, especially when

when it's been such a kind of staple of

your life for for decades.

>> Yeah, for sure. And I think for you, one

thing that immediately hops to mind,

which seems super mundane, but I know

you have a lot of anxiety around flying.

And I don't think that flying counts as

a special occasion, right? So you'll

need to Oh, it absolutely does. It

absolutely does. That counts as a

special You fly so much, though. We are

in the air. Like we shouldn't be able to

do that as humans. Like it is an amazing

feat of engineering. So yes, it's

special. Tim, don't take this away from

me. God damn it. All right. This is my

one thing. I'm going to I'm going to

call that a yellow flag in the making.

But I'm fine with one yellow flag. I I

do fly a bit. But you know what's funny

is when I came back from SFO, when I

actually had that first drink, I didn't

want a second drink on the plane. And

it's honestly, it's kind of that just

like anxiety of the whole process of it

all,

>> the security and the packed jets and the

people coughing next to you. And kind of

once I get settled, I'm pretty good.

Unless it's an international flight and

I'm with friends.

>> Mhm. So yeah, I think it's it's that the

first drink actually goes a long way.