To take a product like this that is not

broken and break it, at some point you

have to wonder what it's all about.

>> They've decided to perform open heart

surgery on the healthiest person in the

franchise.

>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Carara Swisser

>> and I'm Scott Galloway.

>> The big story in media this week is 60

Minutes correspondent Scott P is out at

CBS. Py's firing came after he accused

CBS News chief Barry Weiss of murdering

60 Minutes according to leaked audio

from staff Mini also told the show's new

EP Nick Bilton a longtime tech

journalist and filmmaker someone I know

that his qualifications run 60 Minutes

it's run 60 minutes for slender that is

accurate sent P a letter on Tuesday

saying he'd been terminated for cause

effective immediately it was a terribly

written letter Nick it really was an

embarrassment to you Barry Weiss later

sent an editorial call that P was fired

because the foundation of trust had been

broken after his firing though Ellie

wrote in a statement, "Incompetence and

unprofessionalism and the new management

have wre havoc." He also wrote a

response to her letter and what she was

saying to the staff and then recounted

word for word. He looks like he must

have taken notes during the whole thing

exactly what happened and said basically

called them liars about that they didn't

try to get together. I thought Py should

not mess with this guy. He's a really

good reporter and they are. They're

they're being disingenuous. I think

menacious actually. Uh this is the guy

Tom whatever his name is. all of them.

They're just they're really they're

they're lathering themselves in

dishonor. Um 60 Minutes has been on the

air since 1968. I just you know you're

not a media person. This is of course

illuminating media people. One of my

disappointments here is the journalism

is getting lost in all of this drama.

This is not this is not nobody's talking

about the stories which is what 60

Minutes has been astonishing about. And

the fact that they could just that he

was asking normal questions. Why did you

fire all these really good people,

including Tanya Simon, who ran the show

and took it to new heights, why did you

fire these other correspondents, Cecilia

uh Vega and uh Sharon Alonsy, why did

you fire them? And they wouldn't give an

answer. And I think it's very

appropriate that he asked and they were

trying to act like he was that he was

throwing a tantrum. He absolutely was

not. I'm sorry, he wasn't. He was being

a reporter. So, your thoughts?

Yeah, I don't so you know my view. I I

think media and journalists tend to

think they're more precious than they

are. And I don't buy the notion that

journalism is I I understand that the

chill that the Trump administration is

trying to put on different outlets. And

I have heard from producers that it has

created a chill, but I I've said this

before. I wish the Washington Post would

just go away already. I'm sick of

talking about it because I do think the

most talented journalists I think

there's a huge ecosystem of interesting

companies doing great work

>> and 60 Minutes uh I think the world

would survive without it. Having said

that, I just look at it through a

business lens when you're in an industry

that's in structural decline and you

have a product that's up 9% yearon year.

You don't [ __ ] with it,

>> right? And building and doing well

digitally. That was disingenuous in

their memos. It's doing very well

digitally actually.

It's literally like, okay, Phil

Jackson's job of the Chicago Bulls

wasn't to be the boss and disrupt the

Bulls. It was to get along with Michael

Jordan. The job of CBS management right

now is to get along with 60 Minutes.

>> I think it's a little more serious than

that cuz I think you're leaving out the

Trump thing. I each of these people have

said that these particular managers are

trying to [ __ ] with the stories to try

to shade them. P is making this

allegation. Sharon made this allegation

publicly. Uh uh uh Cecilia Vega made

this. These are very professional

people. These are the top of their game,

right? It's not like whiny right this

they're not being whiny righteous.

They're like what are you doing? Like

these are they're doing great work

>> and then you [ __ ] with them like because

and then the excuse is

>> and by the way I'm sorry.

>> I don't know Barry Weise. I do know Nick

Bilton. None. You are not qualified

compared to these people. I wouldn't be

qualified to run this. Right. like the

fact that they think they can give

instructions to these people. I I I

wouldn't have the arrogance to think I

was better than them. And the excuse

they're using is that um the excuse

they're using is that well we're going

to we're going to fix it before it goes

downhill. That's their excuse. Well,

it's inevitably going to go downhill and

therefore we're going to fix it. Let me

tell you, I have more digital experience

than both of you and you are you have

don't know what you're talking about

because first of all, you're being

disingenuous about their digital stuff

which is doing okay. And secondly, this

is not the way to do it by wrecking it.

This wreck it in order to save the

village. We're going to bomb the village

to save the village. This is nonsense on

every level. And I am someone who knows

more than both of them put together. And

I still have room for more. And I'm a

I'm I'm an actual journalist. Nick is a

journalist. I'm still higher on the food

chain than he is. I'm sorry. And one of

the things is that they're not talking

about the journalism. And these three

people that they fired and Tanya Simon

are amazing journalists and they should

thank them for their existence and

instead because they need to shade

things with the and I do believe these

reporters they are trying to shade the

news in in in service of Trump and

therefore there are minions to the

powerful owners who own them which are

the Ellison's and that's where the real

problem is is these people are these

people are have a whole another game

going on and it's it's take to take a

product like this that is not broken and

break it is at some point you have to

wonder what it's all about. That's

>> they've decided to perform open heart

surgery on the healthiest person in the

franchise. It's just

>> excellent way to put it.

>> And I I I don't know Nick well, but I've

been on his podcast. I think he's a

talented produc a talented journalist. I

don't

>> but in my view,

>> I'm not sure a journalist should be

running it. I think it should be a Jeff

Zucker-like character who has tremendous

respect for journalism, right?

>> But quite frankly, it's just a really

strong manager. I think the person that

shows up to 60 minutes says, "How can I

help? Well done. Call me when you when

how how can I help?" But the what the

the narrative they're putting out there

is the following. You disrupt from a

point of strength. Okay? As someone who

teaches strategy, these people don't

they're using the wrong words.

Disruptors are small companies that go

after fat incumbents and start eating up

from a small niche.

>> That is absolutely true. to say that is

to say that well CBS News which is

hemorrhaging people should stay the

course then what I think the word he's

looking for there's some excuse if he

said it's an amazing place we want to

continue what we're doing but we're also

just we don't ever want to be fat and

happy we want to innovate he's using the

wrong words the last thing you do at the

one place that's working is disrupt it

that's not that's not what you do but I

want to move on I've got an idea and I'm

I'm literally gonna text

Ted Sarandos. I think there's an

enormous opportunity. If I were Ted

Sarandos,

>> I'd hire all these pink people.

>> I would call Scott P and Anderson Cooper

and say, "I'm going to pay each of you

$10 million. You hire whoever the [ __ ]

you want, including executive producer,

and Netflix is going to put out

something called the hour and it's going

to be every week."

>> Yeah, that's our online. Yeah, I think

it's a great We are going to move on.

This is the only thing I have to say is

this is not how you fix. This is not

what you do. And by the way, here's what

I would the advice I would give is let's

see what you can do. So far, the results

are bad at CBS. Everything's going down,

down, down. Your shows are losing

people. The other shows, by the way, ABC

and NBC are gaining. So, you're doing

something. Your changes are not working.

Secondly, and again, I like Nick Bilton.

I do. I do. I know a lot of people. He's

very controversial. He gets a lot of

attacks. I like Nick Bilton. He needs to

show results. If you're going to do

something, don't come in and tell

everybody like give them lectures about

digital disruption. Make changes, make

them with respect and have just let's

see the results. This feels so Chris

Likian that like he kept talking more

than he was doing. And so I feel like

results are all that matter. Get in

there, do good journalism, and then come

out the other side. And otherwise, and

again, I'm sorry. I'm not qualified to

run this place. And these people should

not be running this place. That's I

don't know what else to say.

>> Yeah. But to be fair, and you know these

people better than I do, I think Nick I

think they poured honey on Nick and sent

him hunting for

>> Correct. I think they sent him for him.

>> They sent him into an impossible

situation.

>> Right. Right. And I would like to hear

Nick's side of this story quite frankly

and I think he's coming on the pod. But

look,

the only way this person is successful

is to show up and say just a few things.

I will do my I will quit the moment I

you come to me and say protect me from

outside political influences that are

hurting my journalism. I will I will be

your heat shield. I'm committed to that.

>> That's not what's happening here.

>> I agree. But I think he needs to say

that.

>> Yeah.

>> And if he can't if he can't say that, he

shouldn't he shouldn't take the job.

>> Yeah.

>> And two, I recognize this this

institution is more storied and more

credible than my resume right now. I am

a talented, thoughtful person. I'm going

to do my best to provide you with the

resources and the ideas should you want

them to make this an even stronger

institution. But you call me.

>> I get it. I still don't I think

qualifications matter and you need to

hire someone who has more qualifications

in this area who's done television who's

managed big teams. That's I'm sorry you

just you don't just give a like you just

don't you just don't and again full of

great interesting ideas. I agree with

you, but you don't give a job to someone

who doesn't have the experience to run

it. And I

>> Okay, I'm going to I'm going to go out

on a limb here and say that there have

probably been people with with lesser

qualifications who've also been asked to

run important media properties.

This isn't about this isn't as much

about his qualifications. It's about the

context and how they've gone about this.

If this had been a different situation

at a different time, and someone with

that qu those qualifications had come in

and said, "Look, I promise to protect

you from outside political influence

that gets in the way of your journalism,

I realize I'm in over my head. I hope

you're patient with me. I'm going to do

my best to help you continue. I think

that person could be successful distinct

of their lack of qualifications."

>> If he was working for people who haven't

been accused of meddling, you know, I

mean, and and the Ellis themselves,

>> but that's not him. That's a bigger

issue.

>> Yes, but he's work he took the job with

them. So anyway, it's not Nick's fault.

You're absolutely right. It's not Nick's

fault.

>> But what you're saying is it's doomed.

Anyone's doomed and and that might be a

fair point that there's no way for

anyone to be successful right now.

>> I think in this case it is. I think they

have another there's another game of

foot here that is nothing to do with

they want to wreck this thing. That's my

>> You're saying it's being it's being

turned into and this is this is the most

damning thing several people have said

who've exited the organization. It's

being perverted and queered from a great

journalistic operation that is arguably

one of the most successful the perhaps

is the most successful TV show of its

kind in history. It's being used uh

basically to become propaganda for the

Trump administration.

>> That's correct. That's correct. I and I

I I usually go away from those things,

but it feels like Edward Aruro, remember

when he got screwed? You know what I

mean? Like this is it has that feel to

it. Anyway, we'll see where it goes. But

let me just tell you, Scott, and I don't

know Scott. Uh I I I don't know Cecilia.

Uh although I I'm looking forward to

meet her. I think Sharon's I is

terrific. They're all terrific

journalists and I believe them. I'm

sorry. I believe them over they're just

really good and all the people there and

I've talked to lots of people at at

>> Netflix presents the hour.

>> Yeah, I love it. The hour the hour 59

minutes. Anyway, all right. Um speaking

of

>> 3600 seconds.

>> 7600 seconds. You know, this this idea

of lack of qualifications. I'm sorry.

I'm I'm sort of obsessed with it.

President Trump named Bill Py who runs

the Federal Housing Finance Agency as

the new acting director of national

intelligence replacing Tulsi Gabbard

who's stepping down. Py is best known

for accusing several of Trump's enemies

of mortgage fraud, none of which went

anywhere, including New York AG Leticia

James. He has no known experience in

intelligence. I'm not sure he's

intelligent. Defense or national

security. He's called little Trump.

That's his qualifications. It's unclear

whether Trump will ask the Senate to

confirm PY by law. Anyone nominated for

this role must have extensive national

security expertise. Republicans are

attacking him. Uh you saw several

Republicans saying he has no expertise.

Democrats, especially like our friend

Mark Warner, is losing his mind over

this. Um this this

it's not the same. Nick is very

confident, but this guy is incompetent.

This guy is incompetent at this job. And

all he does is like, you know, he's he

like steps on a rake every five minutes

and hits his head. I mean, and the same

thing with Todd Blanch, who he Trump

caved on his slush fund. Acting attorney

general Todd Blanch, who was Trump's

personal attorney, says the DOJ is

abandoning plans for that $1.8 billion

fund to compensate people who claim they

were unfairly investigated. It was a

rare instance of congressional

Republicans pushing back and winning. Uh

Trump is still getting uh cart blah on

his tax issues um through this deal. I

can't believe that where we're giving

him free a free pass there. Your

thoughts?

>> So, some context. The reason the

position was created, the director of

national intelligence was after 9/11,

policymakers concluded that there was a

lack of coordination amongst our 18

intelligence agencies. So there was

there was really there was really great

intelligence pre 911 that something like

this might happen, but the lack of

coordination meant the right information

didn't bubble up to the right people in

time. And I don't think it's fair to

call him incompetent. He's just not

qualified, which is kind of the same

thing. But I

>> incompetent to this task. Agreed.

Agreed. So, let's just

let's just review the past directors of

national intelligence, their background.

So, let's start with Tulsi Gabbard to be

fair. Combat veteran, military officer,

member of Congress, House Armed Services

Committee. Uh, Averil Haynes, deputy CIA

director, deputy National Security

Adviser. Um, John Rackcliffe,

Congressman, House Intelligence

Committee member, former federal

prosecutor. Dan Coat,

>> now head of the CIA, by the way. Go

ahead. Van Coats, Senator, Ambassador to

Germany, member of the Senate

Intelligence Committee. James Clapper,

former under secretary of defense for

intelligence, decades of military

intelligence. Dennis Blair, fourstar

admiral, former commander of US Pacific

Command, overseeing

uh Indo-Pacific military operations.

Mike McConnell, former director of the

NSA, vice admiral, career intelligence

professional. John Negropod, 40-year

diplomat, ambassador to Iraq, UN

ambassador, director of national

intelligence, created after 9/11

reforms. And Bill Py, I I'm going to say

this, he's a rich kid. He'll build

[ __ ] homes in Fort Meyers.

>> Yeah, that's right.

>> And he might be a nice man. He might be

very competent. He might be a brilliant

businessman. He's 38 and he picks out

subzer for homes and retirement

communities. And

>> that's a big job. That's a big job,

Scott.

>> Well, okay. No, I'm teasing the notion

that look, this is going to put our our

our

servicemen and service women in in

harm's way danger unnecessarily and

recklessly too. Do you think the MOSAD

or MI6 are going to continue to share

information with our intelligence

agencies?

>> They must be cheering in Russia and

China right now.

>> And also, I I I think the American

public is guilty of this. So I don't

think the American I think the American

public has taken for granted the depth,

experience and commitment of what is the

best performing organization in the

world and that is the US government and

how deep the expertise is.

>> Expertise yes

>> of people who decide to forego a lot of

wealth and lifestyle to go to work for

our our intelligence community, our

government, our diplomatic corps, our

defense department. And we're putting in

in one of the most dangerous thing that

is now starting to bubble up as we see

in missteps in Iran and and other

places.

>> They're unprepared for their meetings.

They're settling in Jared Kushner and

Steve Witoff. Are you kidding? They This

is what Hillary was saying. They're

running circles around us. The Iranians

send in like very qualified people to

these negotiations and instead we send

in people that didn't have any idea they

were going to close the straight of

Hormuz. like why would it occur to them

since they're not this is this lack of

expertise and I'm it is a real thing.

It's like you know it's like someone

coming to me and saying I think you need

to lead the New York Knicks to victory.

It's like no like I have no

qualifications to do so and this kind of

thing. The the reason he was hired two

reasons I think is one he's called

little Trump. Um he's listen I don't

think he's a nice person. I've seen him

interviewed. He's he seems like an idiot

but besides he seems like a pompous ass.

I think he was selected so Trump can

control the whole thing. He has to put

these mi unqualified minions into place.

It's always the case with anyone who

puts someone who's not qualified in

place, which is they want to control the

situation. And Trump himself is

unqualified to run this situation too,

by the way. Um, and and this is what

what happens. And it's very dangerous.

Same thing with Todd Blanch. He was his

lawyer and now he's doing his his uh his

gut work for him essentially. this this

slush fund. Are you kidding? Like giving

him, you know, carton in in taxes.

>> Terrorist immunization fund.

>> Correct. That's correct. Yeah. The

private militia fund is what I call it.

>> Yeah. I I I never miss an opportunity to

try and sound important. I've been on a

p bunch of public boards and a general

unwritten rule. So, think about it. The

CEO answers to a board that's supposed

to be a fiduciary for all shareholders.

The president, everyone needs a boss.

Everyone should and does answer to

somebody. The president no longer

answers to co-equal branches of

government. Uh Republican Congress has

been neutered. You know, the speaker of

the house is basically uh just doing

he's he's just doing the dirty work for

the president. He's not he's not in any

way giving his Republican colleagues a

seat at the table here. He's trying to

run rough shot over them based on what

the president wants. The Supreme Court,

I would argue, has been um politicized.

I think a series of appointments have

created certain decisions that I would

argue uh don't have a hell of a lot of

fidelity to the constitution but to

conservative values or what the

president wants. Not always. I do think

they do hold a line on some things but I

would argue that it is no longer uh

oversight for the president. The only

people that provide any sort of checks

and balance for Trump right now are are

are voters. And the first thing you

notice on a board or one of the first

things you notice with experienced board

members in terms of how they evaluate a

CEO is a lot of CEOs have had to be in a

closet in a knife fight for so long to

get to where they are that a lot of CEOs

have a tendency to shoot talented people

on their team who might be the next CEO.

And you end up with a talented CEO who

has a really weak infrastructure of

senior managers. And one of the first

tests on a board to see if a CEO is a

good CEO is how often is he bringing in,

highlighting, and praising other senior

managers. And if he were or she were to

get hit by a bus, if you're running a

public company and there aren't two or

three people that could potentially be

the CEO, you are not a CEO. And you see

it all the time. You see these CEOs who

all of a sudden start shooting talented

people who are recruited away to go be

the CEO of another company because it

was clear they were not. Your job as a

CEO is immediately say to the most

talented people I'm going to be here 3 4

8 years and if you stick around there's

a shot you're going to be CEO and I'm

going to help prepare you to be CEO of

this company or somewhere else.

>> It never h it's got it always happens

this way. They always sort of amass

power. They don't want to be replaced.

They shoot their minions in the in the

head just so they can stay.

>> I've worked with some CEOs who who are

very good at maturing maturing managers

and recognize it's a responsibility to I

think Tim I think Apple has five

potential CEOs.

>> I think more common is the CEO who

cannot be replaced. It's

>> but a good board a good board makes that

part of the compensation criteria.

>> Right.

>> Are you are you putting in place really

strong succession planning here? the

president. I mean, it's just it's just

insane. There is absolutely I just love

the fact that everyone's talking about

Rubio or Vance. President Trump is

[ __ ] Chernobyl. If you stick around

him long enough, you die of political

leukemia. The notion that he gives a

[ __ ]

people along.

>> He would rather see the Republican party

burn to the ground.

>> I That's what I now believe cuz he

doesn't care. He doesn't care about

>> give a [ __ ] about the Republican party

for him to like invade. I don't know. He

wants everyone to go, oh, he wants

everyone to say, oh, this Republican

party is nothing without Trump. He'd

rather see them go down in flames. He'd

rather see AOC president to go down in

flames because he he wants it not to

outlive him. Anyway, really interesting

time, but please people who aren't

qualified, don't do jobs. Don't don't

don't.

>> At least in national security, I say go

for jobs you're not qualified for,

unless it's the DNI.

>> Let me just tell you, guess what? You

would do a better job as director of

national security. Keep saying that as

an example of how terrible Trump

administration.

>> Is this after is this after I run for

mayor of Los Angeles? That's the last

job.

>> It could be a good job. I think it'd be

good at that. Anyway,

>> the mayor of Los Angeles has no power.

It's a terrible job. It's almost

impossible to govern.

>> Put you there because you could swan

around with the rich people and you love

an Oscar party.

>> I do like that. I do like swaning.

>> Can I just say speaking of Oscar

parties? So, I was at this dinner for

the Tbeca Film Festival and B. Miller

was sitting two doors down, like two

seats down,

>> and she listens to Pivot, and she's

lovely, by the way. She's great.

>> And she leans over Bloomberg to me, and

she goes, "Let me just tell you

something." In her B Midler voice, and

she goes,

>> "I don't want you to get a big head. You

went to the Oscar party, Cara."

>> And I'm like, "Oh, I didn't go to the

Oscar party. I said that." I said, "Bet

Midler, it was Scott that went to the

Oscar party." And she goes, "Oh, you

know, she does that voice of her. She

goes, oh, I still don't want you to get

a big head." And I'm like, "I didn't go

to the Oscar party. I stayed home. I

watched the Oscar with my kids. Like,

what do you totally I got accused of

Scott things by that Midler.

>> Well, if it makes you feel any better,

at about 11:30, I got anxious and I went

home and raided the mini bar and drank

myself to sleep.

>> Okay. All right. Anyway, let's go on a

quick break. When we come back,

California primary results.

>> Support for the show comes from Core. AI

isn't just a new tool. It encompasses so

much more. It's spurring a revolution

across all industries and reshaping

itself to become a big part of our

future together. Cororeweave is at the

center powering some of the biggest

names in AI. As the essential cloud for

AI, Coree provides an AI platform that

combines next generation infrastructure,

intelligent tools, and expert support.

It's powering the world's most complex

AI workloads faster and more

efficiently. From medical research and

diagnosis to education, from complex

visual effects from movies to

breakthroughs in science and technology.

If it's AI, Cororeweave is uniquely

ready to power it with purpose-built

tech. The big ideas, the wild visions,

and what-ifs and why nots. Corweave is

working to build what's never been built

before. Cororeweave is the essential

cloud for AI. Ready for anything, ready

for AI. To learn more about how Coree

powers the world's best AI, go to

corweave.com/ ready for anything.

Scott, we're back with more news. Let's

get into the primary races of

California. What a [ __ ] mess this is.

As we record in Wednesday, ballots for

California's governor's race are still

being counted with Republican Steve

Hilton and Democratic uh Xavier Bera in

the lead. In Los Angeles, Mayor Karen

Bass holds the lead in results, but it

became the first city's first city mayor

since 20 2005 to fail to earn 50% of

votes required to avoid a runoff. As we

tape, the race for the second runoff

spot is too close to call with Spencer

Pratt currently in the lead. Let's

listen to a clip we got from co-founder

of Run for Something, Amanda Litman,

about the situation.

>> Hi, Cara. Hi, Scott. So, I will say it's

still a little early to have some hot

takes on the California election

results. We'll know more at the end of

the day today on Wednesday. However, a

few things I am noticing. How much money

does or does not matter. You know,

Thomas Dyer spent upwards of 200 million

of his own dollars on this campaign,

maybe more,

seems like unless the results come back

differently and the ballots are counting

now, he's not going to make it to

November. Meanwhile, down in LA, Spencer

Pratt, even if he doesn't make it all

the way to the runoff, we'll see how

these ballots come in for Nithia, really

modeled a new way of doing this. Mega

viral userenerated AI videos. Um,

breaking through with really authentic

video, capitalizing on the honestly

candidate agnostic media ecosystem the

right has built. We have to be prepared

for this. We cannot just spend our way

into victory. We have to capture

attention in order to win. That means

interesting candidates. That means

engaging messages. That means sometimes

a little bit more risk tolerance.

We've got to be willing to lean in and

be a little bit more unscripted. And

that is something that is very, very

hard for Democrats to do, but is the

only way we're going to be able to

capture the voters we need this fall.

>> Interesting. That's very smart. I agree

with her. I got to say, we talked a

little sort of about Graham Platner. The

same thing is that, you know, are you

going to expect perfection or results

essentially? Uh, thoughts on this

thoughts on this situation in

California? My son voted for Tommy

Styer. Interesting. I think I shouldn't

say that, but I think that's how he

voted.

>> Yeah, but I I actually like people the

story will be about Tom Styer couldn't

spend a quarter of a billion dollars to

get into a runoff. It reminds me a

little bit of Meg Whitman's campaign for

>> Oh, yeah. Do you remember that?

>> And that is on paper they're very

attractive candidates, but for whatever

reason, they just don't resonate with

voters. And I actually think it's a good

thing when the the biggest funer it

doesn't win. I think that that's

actually a a positive.

>> But the biggest loser in this Fair

wasn't Tommy Styer. It's the California

Democratic establishment. California is

the bluest large state in America. Yet

the dominant issues weren't about bodily

autonomy, Trump or democracy. It was

affordability, housing, energy costs,

insurance, homelessness. And when voters

are talking about quality of life issues

and cost of living, ideology takes a

backseat to competence. And Democrats

are not perceived as the party.

>> That is true.

very

>> and national candidates need to take an

a page here

>> and start like JB Pritsker is really

focused on [ __ ] like upgrading the bond

rating of Illinois bonds. That shit's

important. It's boring but it's really

important. Um so Styer the story will be

Styer just proved money is is overrated

right now

>> if you're not a compelling candidate.

>> And Hil Hilton success is a symptom not

the story. He's not winning because

California became conservative

overnight. He's benefiting

He's benefiting again from something

much more dangerous for Democrats who

think the current model just isn't

working. So what does California have

right now? The highest housing costs in

America, some of the highest energy

prices, persistent homelessness despite

enormous spending, net uh out migration

over much of the last decade. And you

know, these are governance problems, not

ideological problems. and Hilton and to

a lesser extent

Pratt are vessels for that frustration

in

>> I think that's a very cany way to put

it. They aren't they aren't the they

aren't something fresh. They're not

rushing towards them. They're reacting

against something.

>> This is why mothers voted for Trump who

have traditionally voted Democratic. If

your son's in the basement playing video

games and vaping, you don't give a

flying [ __ ] about territorial

sovereignty in Ukraine or transgender

rights. And at some point when there are

homeless people everywhere, despite

reports it's costing taxpayers $70,000

per homeless person,

>> you don't care about how thoughtful. You

don't want someone cosplaying Obama.

>> You want someone who says, "I'm going to

come in and I'm going to be a lifestyle

and focus on competence and getting [ __ ]

done." And by the way, anyone who does

an ounce of due diligence around which

I've done a little just started doing

around what it means to govern in LA,

all of the ship posting and criticism, a

lot of it fair. The mayor baskets, a lot

of it is unfair because some of it is

about bureaucracy at the FEMA level. And

good whoever wins the mayor of LA, a lot

of this you it's actually the president

of the LA county and the board of

supervisors that have all the power. LA,

similar to you could argue about

California, has become ungovernable.

But until Democrats at an executive

level start showing they can improve the

quality of people's life and offer them

good value for the money, every state is

a product. You pay for it in taxes, you

expect a product. And right now, there's

just no getting around it.

Democratically products aren't gaining

share, they're losing share.

>> To be fair, homelessness is an

intractable problem. It's one of these

most difficult problems in California

gets because of the weather and because

people want to go there, you know, Los

Angeles particularly. It's a it's a

great place to be homeless compared to

like I don't know Montana or somewhere

else.

>> It's really bad.

>> It is really bad. It is. But it there's

all these problems like where do you

begin? Because it's such it's also an

interrelated problem. So they have the

worst problem

>> of the worst of a terrible problem

that's already hard to fix in an easy

even if you had minor homelessness. And

it's again, it's a complicated,

multifaceted issue that you have to do

piece by piece. And I don't think any I

mean it I don't think if Spencer Pratt,

he's just going to arrest them. That's

not going to work. That's not going to

that's not going to fix anything.

>> It's not going You're right. It's not

going to work. And and and by the way,

your house burning down isn't a

qualification to be mayor.

>> No, not at all.

>> The silver lining. She's right. She's

he's good. He's good at the the stuff.

>> Oh, he's by the way, he's run he's run

an outstanding campaign. Yeah.

Outstanding.

>> Yeah. We'll see where it goes. The

silver lining here is Bera and that is

he might be exactly what Democrats need.

He isn't exciting and quite frankly

that's probably why he won. If you were

to summarize,

you know, Democrats have spent a decade

searching for charisma. Right now it

appears voters are searching for

competence.

>> Daniel Lur is that he does videos every

single day from a different restaurant

in San Francisco. He goes somewhere, he

makes some mistakes.

>> Not talking about Israel. He's not

talking about transgender rights. He's

not talking about bodily autonomy. He's

not talking about Trump. He's just like,

"How do I get Munich to get people to

work?"

>> Right. But then he's also doing happy

ones, too. Like, I just went to this

great Korean restaurant. I got He's very

good. He's I would I would go I'd follow

Daniel's lead in a lot of these things.

You don't have to be a douche nozzle

like Spencer Pratt. He's just basically

a douchezle. Daniel's getting stuff done

and using social media in a really I'd

pay attention to what he's doing because

he's not a compelling like wow

personality. I mean, and he is he's

lovely, by the way, but he's he's not

like like h show, you know, hand, you

know, hand waving at all, but I think he

does use social media.

>> He feels like upper middle management.

>> Yeah. And he's also very he seems

competent. He gets things done. He he's

always on social media. I looked at him.

Anyway, maybe he'll be governor of

California.

>> But just to come back to California, the

race became a choice between celebrity,

Hilton, money, sty, and experience Bera.

and experience appears to be winning.

And the national lesson that Democrats

need to draw from this is the Democratic

party keeps assuming every election is a

referendum on Trump. Increasingly,

voters are treating elections as a

referendum on whether they can afford

groceries, insurance, electricity, and a

mortgage.

>> And what your governor can do about

that, not governors can't or mayor can

do about it. Anyway, last story here.

Apple smart glasses are now expected to

launch in late 2027 after the company

hit some delays. More glasses from

Apple, Scott. Apple is reportedly

following the playbook similar to Apple

Watch, focusing on driving mainstream

adoption of both glasses and sunglasses.

These are things that look like glasses.

First generation glasses are expected to

emphasize features like cameras, but

Apple believes glasses could eventually

evolved into a health device and

incorporate augmented reality. Now, I

know you've been critical of the Oculus

and Apple Vision Pro. These are big,

heavy units. These were these would be

more like what app would what Meta has

with their Ray-B bands or their other

different things. So, I I have a feeling

Apple's going to come right up the back,

up the middle, and take it all. Just

like with the watch, it's I think

they'll design the best glasses. They'll

work the best. Um, and this is a way it

goes mainstream if if this thing is to

go mainstream. Your thoughts?

>> You're exactly right. They weren't the

first in the iPod. There's my colleague

at NYU Stern is now at the TU school,

Peter Golder. He he has this he he

taught me something that stuck with me

that I thought was just a brilliant

observation and it's the focus of his

research and that is the innovator

doesn't win from a shareholder

perspective. The innovator gets mud on

their face and arrows in their back.

It's the second mouse. It's the person

that learns from the innovator who

wastes a lot of capital and energy and

comes in and it's the second mouse that

gets the cheese. Apple has essentially

built the most valuable company in the

world now number two on a second mouse

strategy. And that is essentially Meta

built this market, but Apple's going to

collect the rent.

>> They are.

>> And this has this is not a mixed reality

headset. That [ __ ] was like a

prophylactic, right? That was just

stupid. Just stupid.

>> Yeah.

>> Meta has done the hard work. Uh Rayband

reportedly sold about 7 million units in

2025 and owns 85% of the category. And

Apple is now entering after consumer

behavior has already been validated. And

>> people Apple is the most is the most

aspirational brand globally. It says I'm

I'm one of the 1 billion people who are

the most creative and wealthy people on

the planet. And it is the ultimate

luxury item is an iPhone in terms of

ubiquity globally. It means it means you

can afford a 12 or $1,400 piece of

equipment that does the exact same thing

a $300 or a free phone does because you

consider yourself part of the creative

class and you have some you know rz if

you will economically.

So Palm built the smartphone market.

Blackberry validated it. Apple captured

it. Uh Fossil and Swatchbuilt watches.

Apple captured it.

>> Do you remember Ano? Remember Ano? The

first wireless earbuds. No, you don't.

>> I don't.

>> Yeah, they were I had them. Oh, Yon.

There were a whole bunch of early

wireless Airbuds and then Apple came in

and and stole it, but it was called

Ankio. I had them. There were a bunch uh

before um before the AirPods that that

we showed a bunch of them at at the the

co the our conference. Yeah.

>> This is this is what I think is going to

happen. Meta spent tens of billions uh

proving people will wear computers on

their face. Apple will show up late,

charge 40% more, and take 80% of the

profits here. And people, the mistake

people make is that people think the

valley's greatest business model is

invention. It's not. It's letting

someone else prove demand.

>> Yep. Yep. Same thing with the AirPod.

They did they weren't the first of those

those

>> music devices. They just were the best.

They'll come in with beautiful glasses.

They're not going to need Ray-B band.

will design something gorgeous and

you'll want to wear

>> beautiful and and if if it's distinctly

Apple

>> you'll wear them.

>> I'll wear I'll buy it

>> and they'll you will totally have like

90 sets of them in your house cuz you'll

lose them.

>> Well, look what I have here. One of my

eight sets of AirPods that I

consistently lose and

>> Yep. And remember when AirPods were

thought as ugly when they Anyway, this

they're going to they're going to take

this area, I think. And if they're And

if they sh It has to be more than

cameras. has got to give you information

and talk to you and

record things and everything else. It's

got to have more. I I I have a pair of

the Ray-B bands. I don't find them

useful at all. I I I don't I don't I

just don't. It doesn't

>> People like them. My kid My kids

>> I do, but it doesn't work that well with

my other with my Apple.

>> I will say it's like another one of the

wearables that ends up in a drawer.

>> Yes, that's where it is. And but I bet

Apple could if they could give me enough

stuff to do with it. I'd rather like cuz

I use my AirPods now for everything.

Like I don't ever look at my phone, you

know. Anyway, um all right, let's go on

a quick break. When we come back, we'll

talk about Trump quietly signing his AI

executive order.

>> Support for the show comes from

Anthropic. Not every question has an

easy answer. And when you're working

through something complicated, it helps

to have a thought partner to kick ideas

around with and uncover what's really

going on beneath the surface. That's

where Cloud comes in. Cloud is the AI

for minds that don't stop at good

enough. It's the collaborator that

actually understands your entire

workflow and thinks with you. Whether

you're debugging code at midnight or

strategizing your next business move,

Cloud extends your thinking to tackle

the problems that matter. Plus, Cloud's

research capabilities can have

comprehensive, reliable analysis and

citations, turning hours of research

into minutes. And co-work brings Cloud's

code agentic power to your desktop. No

terminal required. Just point it to a

folder on your computer and add

connectors, including Google Drive and

Gmail. Describe what you need and it

handles the rest. You just ceue up tasks

and come back to find finished work. For

problems we're solving, get started with

Cloud today at cloud.ai/pivot.

That's cloud.ai/pivot.

And check out CloudPro, which includes

access to all of the features mentioned

in today's episode. cloud.ai/pivot.

Scott, we're back. President Trump has

finally signed his AI executive order,

and it's a paler shade of white after

scrapping a previous version at last

minute a few weeks ago. The new order is

scaled back version of the original.

would ask AI companies to voluntarily

submit their most powerful models to the

government for review 30 days rather

than I think it's 90 uh day review

window. It was in an earlier version but

Trump rejected that saying it would get

in the way of uh competition with China.

The revised order comes after a White

House meeting on Monday with Trump Scott

Bess and Pete Hexath and former AISR uh

David Saxs who gave his blessing to the

new timeline. David Saxs had gotten in

the way of the previous one. I'll note

Sam Alman is in DC this week making the

rounds. It's just dumb. It's just it

does nothing. And that's that's my

thoughts on it. Your thoughts?

>> Well, the elites in the Trump

administration think the regulation is

controversial. But you know who's ahead

of them is the American public. Voters

don't think it's controversial.

>> Nope.

>> This is this is one of the few issues

where Republicans, Democrats, parents,

um, unions,

and you know, churchgoers all agree. I

think this is the next great populist

movement for better or for worse. It

won't be anti-immigration

>> or anti-globalization. It'll be anti- AI

Cara.

>> And this is an enormous opportunity for

a Democrat or a Republican that figures

out that the first the first person that

really goes into a populist movement

around regulating AI is going to is

going to have the political equivalent

of beachfront property here. This is the

next big populist movement.

>> Yep. I agree with you. I think that's

absolutely true. I think you're 100%

true. Anyway, uh it's a really

interesting, but this this one did

nothing. This one did nothing. It's a

big a whole lot of nothing and David

Sachs got his way. Congratulations,

David. There were others much more

concerned in that administration and as

well they should be. All right, Scott,

one more quick break. We'll be back for

predictions.

Okay, let's hear a prediction. I I'm

going to make a very quick one. I just

want to say Missouri is reducing state

funding for Dolly Parton's imagination

library and early childhood reading

program that mails free books to

children. my children get them. They're

wonderful. Um, and Dolly went on to

complain about this online very in a

very friendly way. But this is a great

program and so reducing funding for kids

getting books is the most idiotic thing

I've ever seen. And I predict Dolly

Parton will prevail here and the money

will get to this group. Uh, your

thoughts, Scott? I was watching Bill

Maher and they asked um Neil Grass to

Tyson if aliens landed who would you

want to speak to that person or who who

would be best selected to to to speak to

aliens and he said a great mathematician

would makes a lot of sense because he

said any alien that gets to the earth

would understand math and that would be

our common bridge in terms of vocabulary

which made a lot of sense to me but I I

immediately thought no joke

>> Dolly Parton

>> send Dolly Parton

>> send Dolly [ __ ] pardon

>> she's super likable on a lot levels kind

of represents represents Earth pretty

well.

>> The first that went into my mind is that

if aliens show up and we need a

spokesperson, send Dolly Parton.

>> That's I agree.

>> She can sing.

>> She's likable.

>> She's smart.

>> Smart. Charitable.

>> Tells a good story. Boobs.

>> I won't get into other attributes that

kind of represent.

>> She talks about them. You can say boobs

with her. She talks about

>> But I thought Yeah. Dolly Pardon. That's

who should represent us when the

>> Well, give her her book money, you

[ __ ] in Missouri. Anyway, go ahead.

So my my prediction is is more boring. I

think you're about to see the mother of

all capital front running. What do I

mean by that?

>> As everyone obsesses over the $4

trillion valuation of open AI, SpaceX,

and Anthropic, you're about to see

Alphabet's already announced it. The

next will be Amazon, then it might be

Nvidia, then it might be Apple. They're

going to frontr run all these guys.

They're going to cut the line and say,

"You want to give cheap cattle to

companies in AI? Our company is lower

risk. Not as much upside, but much lower

risk.

>> Google just did it. Yeah.

>> Alphabet just announced an 80 billion

dollar offering. They're like, if

there's a if there's if there's a

quarter of a trillion dollars out there

of dumb money or cheap money looking to

get into AI, they're cutting the line

and they're going to suck the oxygen or

some of the oxygen out of the room of

the IPO market.

>> Because you you noted correctly there's

not enough money even for all of these

things.

>> I I saw that from Alphabet yesterday.

I'm like, "Oh my god, that's such

[ __ ] genius."

>> Explain what they're doing. They're

they're raising money by

>> Well, usually these companies will do a

debt offering at this point because they

can use typically access such cheap

debt. But I think Alphabet said, "My

god, these guys there's there's people

out there willing to invest at 20, 30,

100 times revenues to buy go buy Nvidia

chips and build out AI infrastructure."

They're like, I think we'll take that.

And so Alphabet, whose CEO or CFO is

incredibly smart, said, "No, we'll we'll

go get 80 billion of that cheap

capital." And it's so smart. It's so

kind of, if you will,

>> sneaky.

>> And quite frankly, if I'm Apple, if I'm

Alphabet, if I'm Alphabet and I have

Gemini, and I think, you know, Open AI

and Anthropic are competitors, I'm just

going to kick them in the nuts and I'm

going to step on their oxygen line

before we've even hooked it up.

>> I mean, they deserve it. They are as

good, right? It's not like why should

they get the money? They're better.

That's the downside. These companies

have robust business.

>> Why should they get the money? Why

should

>> they have great management teams? Yeah.

>> So, they've they've basically

>> lower risk.

>> They're frontr running the IPOs here. I

I wish I thought of this. I think it's

such genius. My prediction is

>> Alphabet's starting. I bet the CFOs of

Apple, Microsoft, Coreweave, Nvidia have

all got their pencils out and have said,

"Let's get some of this. Why don't we go

get some of that?

>> Why don't we if there's if there's a

quarter of a trillion dollars on the

sidelines waiting to invest in AI? Hey,

come over here. I got an idea.

>> Bring it to my little store." And by the

way, we have other businesses to support

it if you

>> Yeah. And there's less downside here. If

things work out, we still got we still

got we still got YouTube and iPhones and

we still got PowerPoint.

>> Yeah. Excellent. Okay, that's a great

one. I love that. That's a great one.

That's an excellent That's an excellent

prediction. Anyway, we want to hear from

you. Send us your questions about

business tech or whatever's on your

mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot.

Submit a question for the show or call

8551 pivot. Okay, that's the show.

Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure

to like and subscribe to our YouTube

channel. Scott, congratulations on a

tour with Edson.

It was really nice to of course a great

partner. I really you you totally made

the tour. So, thank you.

>> Thank you. You deserve it. It was a

great tour and it was really nice to see

all your fans. Anyway, we'll be back

next week.