What do you think is the hardest thing

you're working on right now? Like what's

the most challenging thing you're

working on internally or externally?

Could be creatively. It could be

habit-wise. What is What is something

that you're struggling with or grappling

with that you're working through?

>> Happiness.

>> Wow. Okay.

>> Yeah. Happiness. It's interesting. I was

um getting ready to come over here this

morning and so I My daughter goes to

school here uh at the Thornton School

for Music. She's a senior and she spent

the night with me last night. I'm going

to tell you the story because it's

relevant about both learning things the

hard way and about happiness. So, she

slept in my bed with me last night and

it was so awesome and I just love her

and she's 22 and she's about to like

burst into the next chapter of her life.

It is so exciting and I miss her

terribly, terribly. And I Oh, I'm I'm

going to get like totally choked up when

I think about it cuz I live on the other

side of the country. And I think one of

the hardest things that you have to do

in life if you really love somebody is

to encourage them to leave, to encourage

them to grow.

And um I can't believe how choked up I'm

getting about this cuz I mean this just

happened this morning and I was laying

in bed and she's sound asleep, you know,

like sprolled out like this 22year-old

sleep and sweating and you know, just

like this. And I thought, "Oh, I want to

take a picture of this moment." And then

I thought, "No, she's going to kill me

cuz she looks terrible." And you know

how that rolls when you're 20 years old.

And so I closed my eyes to just capture

the memory. And I thought

why is it that I am always

gripping onto the thing that makes me

unhappy?

What is it about this campaign? I call

it the campaign of misery. like instead

of focusing on the fact that here I am

first of all lucky enough to be in Los

Angeles to be able to have the means to

go see her for parents weekend that I

have a relationship with her where she

would want to come and just snuggle up

and spend the night that she is pursuing

her passion and dream of being a singer

songwriter that she is just killing it

she's happy

why am I always defaulting to the loss

>> and so when I say that I'm working on

happiness.

What I've realized about myself, Jay, is

that I have done a lot of things in

life, but I've spent the vast majority

of my life being so busy and keeping

myself so busy as a means to outrun, I

think, a deep-seated unhappiness.

And that when the pandemic hit and I had

to slow down and I had to truly say to

myself, okay, you can't go anywhere. You

cannot regulate your anxiety by running

to Target. You can't catch a plane. You

can't you like it's you and your like

you and yourself right now, Mel. And all

the coping mechanisms that you used to

have that distracted you from the fact

that you're just not that happy.

>> They're not there anymore. And unless I

want to drink myself into the ground,

which I don't, and numb it or hit the

vape pen or take a go, like unless I

want to numb it, I got to deal with it.

And so I've spent the last two years and

I continue to focus right now on the

number one goal that I have, which is to

learn how to be happy and content

wherever I am.

And so this morning is the perfect

example of catching this profound

sadness which is part of the human

experience deeply missing somebody is

also about loving them right and

noticing that I was going into the

negative and part of being content and

being happy wherever I am is not trying

to fix things. It's being okay with

things. It's allowing the emotion to

rise up and then noticing that there's a

different way to feel.

>> And so in that moment, I just am doing

what I'm doing a lot of, which is just

breathing through those deep moments

where I'm like, why am I complaining

about this? This is so stupid. Why am I

obsessing about this thing tomorrow and

I'm not even here right now? And

refraraming things in a more positive

way. And this might surprise people

because I I am a very positive person. I

am a very optimistic person, but when I

really slow down,

my mind runs a million miles an hour and

normally it's 15 steps ahead, which

means I'm never content where I am.

And so I've been doing a ton of work

like in my nervous system, in my body,

instead of going right up here and

trying to wrestle with my thoughts, I've

been going down into here to just anchor

in my body and slow things down and be

physically where I am, where my feet

are. And so then there was a second

thing that happened. So again, I'm

working on happiness. That's the thing

I'm really like working on. It's like a

muscle, right? Um, I'm in the bathroom

and I am terrible at doing my hair. I

know it looks really decent today, but

normally I look like a freaking

labradoodle on a humid day. Like, that's

just me. I just have never figured out

the hair situation. And so, I finally

said, "That's it. I have got to figure

out how to make my hair look halfway

okay." Like, I'm not even looking for

amazing. I'm just looking for okay. And

so I was watching YouTube. I'm learning

the tutorials. I've got the right

sprays. And so Kendall comes rolling in

after she wakes up. And I am sitting

there trying to curl my hair, right,

with this big fat curling. I'm terrible

at it, Jay. And all of a sudden, I hit

my freaking ear and I'm like, "OH." AND

I AND I'M LIKE, "OH MY GOD, I just

burned my ear." And Kendall casually

goes, "Well, you got to learn somehow."

And she walks out of the room. I think

there is so much wisdom in that.

Because that is how you learn. That is

how you learn how close to hold a

curling iron to your ear. You burn

yourself and then your whole body

absorbs the lesson and you don't go that

close to the fire next time. Mhm.

>> And I'm doing that dance with happiness

and contentment

that when I feel the fire of discontent

or friction or complaining or looking

for what's wrong,

I pull the curling iron a little away

from the ear and I go back into a safer,

calmer place.

>> That was a beautiful answer. I I didn't

know what to expect when I asked that

question. I really appreciate you, you

know, going that inward with it because

you could have gone a number of ways. I

I fully understand and empathize what

you're saying because my mom and my

family do something similar. So, and I

love my mom. I have a great relationship

with my mom. She's amazing and anything

that's good about me is because of her.

But every time I go back to London, the

day I land, my family will say, "Well,

you're only here for 21 days." I'm like,

21 days? Like, that's three weeks. Even

if you added up all the hours weekly

that you spend with time with someone,

it probably won't account for 21 full

days with full presence. And then a week

will go and be like, "Oh, you've only

got 40 14 days left. Oh, you've only got

seven days left. Oh, you're leaving

today." And and that mindset just keeps

forcing you to think that day 21 is day

one, right? Right? As in that day, 21

days left is the same as one day left.

And you're living all 21 days as there's

only one day left. And I' I've taken

time and I've sat with my mom so many

times to have that conversation with

her. And I said, "Mom, if you celebrate

that we have 21 days and we're going to

make the most of it and we're going to

create new memories and create new

experiences, then you're going to be

happier for these 21 days. And yes,

you're going to miss me the same. It's

not going to change that. And I'm going

to miss you." So, I I have personal

experience of that. on the other end of

it with having that conversation with my

mom where she's really grown in

understanding how that thought hasn't

served her

>> right

>> and she's so much happier for it now

when I go back. So that I definitely

identify with that. What what you

touched on at the end there though was

really interesting to me when you talk

about happiness.

It sounds like you believe you deserve

it and you sound like you believe it's

yours for the taking. Like it's like it

is a clear goal direction. It's there.

>> Yeah.

>> And I think what's happened is

subconsciously or consciously so many of

us don't feel we deserve happiness or we

don't feel we're worthy of happiness or

we actually think mediocrity is a safer

place to live because then we don't have

our expectations being unmet. We don't

have the fall of I wanted this but I got

this. Right? And so I've been I had a

friend the other day who sent me a

message and he said, "Take a look at

this and it was all about how really we

shouldn't strive for happiness. We

should strive for mediocrity because

mediocrity is where most people will end

up." So that was literally this is the

message. So my friend messaged me. He

goes, "What do you think of this?"

>> I think it sucks. That's what Mel

Robinson I think it's the worst advice

I've ever freaking heard. How about

that? It's the dumbest thing I've ever

heard. Here's the thing, Jay.

So, one of the things I also wanted to

say is that I'm 54 and it's taken me a

long time to figure out that I was

actually not a happy person. And I don't

think I act I I I really truly

understood

what happiness is. And maybe I'm using

the wrong word. Maybe the word is the

problem because I always associated

happiness with like parties and laughter

and like I'm just like full of joy and

I'm and I just, you know, it's like this

very positive thing. And again, I am a

positive person. I'm a very optimistic

person. But if you were to put a speaker

on my head and broadcast the things I

said to myself, you would literally

check me in to the seventh floor at Mass

General Hospital in Boston,

Massachusetts, because it was a constant

drum beat of negativity. And as I one by

one by one Jay started to fix the

problems in my marriage and my finances

um with my anxiety as I built a business

you know a lot of people are surprised

to learn that most of what you see that

I've built has been built in the last

six years literally and so I as I

started fixing things outside

that default drum beat did not go away.

>> It just was a situation where I no

longer had anything outside of me that

was rationally wrong. So, I turned it

back on me and just started hammering me

in in in crazy ways. I'll give you an

example. So, this is where I started to

have this breakthrough. So, I was

sitting my my husband and I have just uh

bought a house in Vermont. And I know

you guys, you know, are in your new

home. It's an incredible thing to do. It

is our dream house. It's the house that

his parents built. It's the family

house. We not only were able to purchase

this thing, we have been able to

completely renovate it, make it our own.

This place is the closest place to God

that I have ever been. We sit nestled

between mountains with a 140 mile view

straight down a valley with cascading

like it is

just spectacular. When I would sit in

therapy sessions eight years ago and my

therapist would ask me to come up with

like a um you know like a totem or a

spiritual guide or vision whatever for

truth or God or what it's always this

view. And so lo and behold, eight years

later, we freaking live there. And I'm

sitting on this covered deck looking

down the valley. My daughter is sitting

next to me, our other daughter who lives

in Boston who's 23. And it's Sunday. And

normally on Sundays,

I'm not even present on Sundays because

I'm now got the Sunday scaries. I'm now

thinking about the week ahead. She is

starting to now do that. Okay, I got to

get going. I got to I got to pack the

car. I got to get going. I got to I got

a big week of work this week. And it's

7:30 in the morning on a spectacular day

and the energy is starting and I

recognize the energy because that is the

campaign of misery that I have lived

with for 50 years. And I'm sitting there

and I'm thinking, "Oh, this is

interesting.

That's me."

And then I stopped in that moment, Jay,

and I thought, "I don't feel that right

now.

I just feel that exactly where I am

looking at this view

is exactly

where I'm supposed to be. And it was so

profound. It's almost like that moment

where Echart Tole has on the bench in

the beginning of the power of now where

I have this profound experience where I

think wait a minute is this what

happiness is

that I'm not 15 steps ahead

I'm just able to be right here without

the anxiety without the stress I mean

that is like a revolutionary experience

for me. I don't think I had ever not

felt the default of a revved up nervous

system, an anxious mind, or a to-do list

that was a mile long. And I don't want

to go back to that sort of frenetic

busyness that creates chronic stress.

And you know, the challenge for me right

now is how do I stay in a space that's

that's happy? Because I love the game of

building a business. I love pushing

myself. I love like and I realized, oh

wait, you actually need both. You need

deep spiritual quiet time and you need

the busyiness of Los Angeles or Boston

or New York in small sprints. But that

can't be your default anymore, woman.

>> And that's a that's such a great

realization and reflection, I think,

when you come to that. And it it takes a

lot of self-acceptance to come to that

because I think we think of life as

binary like you have to make a choice.

You're either going to be a hustler or

you're going to be peaceful. You're

either going to be a winner or you're

going to be a loser. You're either going

to be wisdom and zen or you're going to

be money and materialistic. Right? And

it's almost like you feel you have to

make those choices early in life. And I

think when you came in here, we were

talking about something and I really

really think it's something that a lot

of our listeners will resonate with. The

idea that so many of us experience pain

of not going after what we want or what

we need or what we feel is our calling

>> because of the pain that comes with

that.

>> And so we settle for the pain of where

we are.

>> Yeah. And I think those two ideas are

related because again we think there's

this choice you have to make at any

point in time where it's like I'm either

going to live the life of my dreams or

I'm going to be stuck forever and then

we're like okay well I'll be stuck

forever because my dreams seem so far

away. I remember being there and it's

always hard to help everyone who's

listening realize how much I felt that

way.

>> So how old were you? I this was six

years ago for me. It was

>> Oh my god. That's right. You like have

this crazy parallel path.

>> Yeah. Six years ago. So it was six years

ago. I was working a safe corporate job.

Six months from now I was about to be

married to Radhi and I was making

£31,500

a year and that was my salary at this

company. And I was doing extremely well

at the company. So I had a good track to

to progress there.

And I'm sitting there going, I've been

there for two years and I'm like, I

don't think this is where I'm meant to

be. I was looking at people who'd been

at the company for decades. I was I've

always said to people, look 10, 20 years

ahead of you and

>> look at that person in a company and go,

is that where I want to be?

>> And I was like, well, even if they paid

me as much as that person's paid, even

if I got all the benefits that person

got,

>> I don't think I want to do that in my

50s. And so I thought to myself, okay,

well then I have to take a risk. So, and

and obviously that was like a 2-year

journey of even convincing myself. Let's

talk about that. If someone's sitting

there right now passionate about

something, wanting to get inspired,

wanting to do something, but they're

settling for the pain of where they are.

And that's why I asked that med

mediocrity and happiness question.

>> Yeah.

>> It is really that dance between I'm

going to settle for where I'm at or I'm

going to be where I want to be. How do

you think about that journey? How do you

>> You know what just popped into my mind

in a weird way? Cancer. If you got

diagnosed with a cancer that was

treatable, would you try to treat your

cancer?

>> Yes,

>> of course you would. Because otherwise

it would kill you. When you feel this

call or this this burning desire and I

feel like we all have this flame inside

of us. We are not like a boiler where

the pilot light can blow out. That is

not how a human being is wired. you,

whether you're stuck, whether you're in

pain, whether you're suffering, you

still have this this flame inside you

that is burning. And when you actively

engage in your own campaign of misery

and you actively tell yourself the

reasons why it's not going to work or

the reasons why you can't do it or the

reasons why now is not the time or

you're never going to make it happen or

it was great for Jay or great for je for

Mel but nothing ever works out for when

you engage in your own campaign of

misery you are creating literally a

cancer inside of you that eats at you

and we don't realize that by engaging in

this campaign of misery because it's

active that flame is burning inside you

and you are actively convincing yourself

not to do anything it is an active

engage that's why I call it a campaign

because that flame is going to keep on

burning which is why the campaign has to

get louder and the excuses have to get

louder and you know what starts to

happen is you start to listen to that

campaign and you start to feel pain

because there's something burning inside

of you. And the only cure for this is to

stop listening to that campaign and

simply start taking small steps, just

one every day toward the thing that you

want. I talk to my daughter about this

all the time. So she dreams, absolutely

dreams of being a singer, songwriter,

solo artist with a a successful career,

literally stadium tours. And if I'm

being perfectly honest, this kid has all

of the talent and all of the like she's

one of those five tool players and she

is a great person, kind and just

awesome. And she's even in a program for

it, the best in the country. She has

everything. She just has to do the work.

What is the work? Well, the work is

simply writing crappy songs every day.

The work is not listening to the

campaign of misery because all around

you, you're going to see evidence of

this person's better or that person this

or this one's that or there. Uh-uh. When

you listen to that campaign in your

head, it is like a cancer inside. It

causes pain because you can feel when

you are giving up on your own potential

>> and that is the worst kind of life to

live. You are either in the stands

commenting about the game or you're on

the court playing it. And right now I

want you to think about that flame

inside you, that dream that you have.

And I'm going to go back to my daughter

who is on the court. But she will be the

first to say that for many years she was

engaged in her own campaign of misery

sitting in the stands telling herself

why she can't get on the the court right

now. And so I like that visual because

at any moment it literally like cuts

right to the truth. Are you in the

stands criticizing who the people who

are playing the game or being jealous of

them or in the stands telling yourself

it's not time to jump in or are you on

the freaking court? There's only two

places to be in life. That's it. There

is no middle ground here. And so what I

want to say also is that being in the

stands is loud. It is an active thing

that you're doing. This is not a passive

thing that we do to ourselves. We

actively argue against our dream and our

potential. And that is a thousand%

tied to your happiness, to your

confidence. Because if you are arguing

against your own god-given potential,

you are actively destroying your

confidence. You're actively destroying

possibility in your life. And here's the

thing, you freaking know it.

>> Yeah,

>> people know when they have imposttor

syndrome. They know it. They talk about

it openly. And I also hate the term fake

it till you make it. And here's why.

When you say, "I'm just going to fake it

till you make it," you are calling

yourself a fake. It amplifies your

self-doubt. instead say this. I'm going

to get on the court and try until I make

it.

>> Because the pain of sitting in the

stands and never getting down there is

way greater than tripping on the court.

>> Mhm.

>> Way greater. You're causing your And

this is the thing I want people to

understand. You are causing yourself so

much pain by laughing off and making

jokes about how it's never going to

happen. You are causing yourself so much

pain by thinking about it. Get out of

the freaking stands and get back on the

court in your life.