Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> We're live. What's happening, [music]

man? Nice to meet you.

>> Hey, it's great to meet you as well,

Joe. I uh really really appreciate you

taking me out here.

>> Oh, my pleasure. I've enjoyed your

content for quite a while now. So, it's

>> Well, I'd be interested to know when was

it that you first started getting

interested in what I was doing? What

kind of subject? What topic? Wish I

remembered

>> cuz I know you followed me for a couple

years. It was before the Cafra pyramid

scans and stuff like

>> you know I'm into the UFO subject and

things like that but I wasn't sure.

>> Well, it's all the silly [ __ ] that I

love. [laughter]

>> I hear you.

>> Silly and serious at the same time.

Ancient civilizations, mysteries, and

obviously aliens.

>> Oh, yeah. And it's all cotangent. It all

connects together. That's

>> I think so, too. We actually played a

clip uh we had did a podcast yesterday

with uh Dr. Michael Masters.

>> Love him. Yeah, I've told him a couple

times.

>> Very fun, very smart guy, very

interesting guy. But we played uh we

were talking about the he has a theory

that aliens are human beings in the

future. It's very strange theory

>> um

>> based on like kind of the

anthropological

>> view and the physiology and how that

might have happened over time.

>> And there's also what what was the

model? There's the many worlds theory

and then what was his model? There's a

different one that the the concept is

you could if you lived in the future,

you could go back in time and it would

not affect the future because everything

that's supposed to happen is already

happening and you were supposed to go

back anyway.

>> Okay.

>> Interesting. Okay. [laughter]

>> I try to get my head. But anyway, during

that time I asked him about the

tridactyl mummies and then we played

your clip.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Yeah. We played the clip that showed all

the scans. We talked about Jesse

Michaels and how he went down to Peru

and actually touched those things and

was there with them and how surreal it

was.

>> Yeah, I was in Peru recently not to go

and see the Nazca mummies. I wish I

could have seen them. I was out there to

look at all the megalithic studies and

the excavations going on at Saxo Woman,

which is an incredible megalithic site

in Kusco. But the Nazca mummies, I mean,

what's interesting about it is that

obviously you're going to have a big

knee-jerk reaction to something that's

so incredibly profound as the idea of

these being non-human intelligences that

are mummified. But when you actually

look at the CT scans and the X-rays, you

start to realize that this can't be

faked. You can't fake bone cartilage.

You can't fake capillaries and heart

valves and a fetus inside the body. So,

>> it's so nuts,

>> dude. It's crazy. Some of them have eggs

inside them. Some of them have fetuses.

Like,

>> it looks like the eggs are big like

inside them. And these are small beings.

These ones are meant to be like the

little kind of like 60 cm beings with

like three eggs inside them. Then you

got the big one, Monserat, which has an

actual fetus, like a baby not in an egg.

So, it's like, if these are all real, it

does feel like there was some sort of

genetic experimentation going on where

they're just churning out prototypes of

some form.

>> Do you think that's it? Or do you think

that there used to be another type of,

for lack of a better word, primate?

>> Well, the thing is,

>> is that a primate? I mean, what is that?

I mean, some of them they're leaning

more towards like reptilian anthropod

kind of lineage. So, like the bigger

ones seem to be more mamalian, whereas

the smaller ones with the eggs are

sharing reptilian traits. So, it's like

there are all these different variations

with these different bodies, different

kind of like physiological um

characteristics, which is why it's like,

okay, well, is this one lineage or is

this just someone kind of like tweaking?

All right, well, that one failed, that

one's not working. This one grew wings

or I [ __ ] that one off. Like, you

know, it's just weird. is that so your

thought is that these are the products

of experiments.

>> I mean if you look at Jesse when Jesse

Michaels did his documentary one thing

he mentioned I can't remember um where

he got this from but he was saying that

the original translation of the area of

Nazca from the original language was

like the area of experiment and genetic

cloning or it was like a really strange

definition for the actual area that kind

of says experimentation and genetic

modification. And I can't remember the

exact quote, but this was something that

he brought up in the documentary. I was

like, "Huh?" Okay.

>> Then you have all of these various

different examples.

>> Can you I ask you, yeah, who said that?

Who called it that?

>> So Jesse, when Jesse Michaels put out

his documentary, there was just a scene

in it. Now, my memory is failing me a

little bit, but there's a scene in here

where he was talking about the Nazca

region, and he said that the original in

the original language, this translates

roughly to the area of experimentation

and genetics of some form.

>> But how do they know what those terms

were?

>> I I agree. I agree. But it's just a

weird little caveat that he brought up

in the documentary. I'm not quite He'd

probably be rolling his eyes at me now

like, "Dude, I actually [ __ ] know

exactly what this is." Like [laughter]

making you look like an idiot. Yeah, I'm

butchering it. But I do that all the

time. Oh, for sure. But I but just the

fact that these things exist and they

exist in an area of the world which is

full of mystery. I mean the megalithic

sites around there like I said that's

what I was out there for to see these

different megalithic sites and the

Nazcalines

>> and uh you know saxwoman and in the

sacred valley you just have like

incredibly complex architecture. You

know rosecourt granite diorite andite

these incredibly hard stones like in

Egypt. But honestly, I find Peru even

more baffling than Egypt with the

architecture because of just the the

level of interlocking precision that you

see and the the fact that it looks like

they've softened the stone in Sax Woman.

It looks like marshmallows like all

squished together and it just invokes a

lot of different theories from people

about how they were actually

manipulating the stone.

>> Yeah. Because it doesn't seem like it

was just carved. No.

>> Right. Like it it does seem like there's

some areas where chunks are have been

removed from, you know, the quaries, but

when they're all pieced together, when

you see those weird like curvatures to

it, it's like, what were you guys do?

And perfect precision.

>> Perfect precision. And like sometimes

you'll see like these corners where just

a tiny bit of stone is jutting up and

then the other two are connecting into

it. It's like this is such a ridiculous

level of complexity for an apparent 600y

year ago bronze age bronze chisels and

stone hammer tool wielding civilization

and and also in Peru is what I find very

interesting is you've got a brilliant

visual contrast to use when you look at

what is the Inca work which is the rough

cut stone the mortar brick using walls

like this is all present in Peru next to

the megalithic sites and the mainstream

will attribute all of this to the Inca

of 600 years ago go. But you'll see that

the stone walls that are rough cut and

use cement and mortar, they're still

standing. They're pretty pristine.

They're looking good next to megalithic

multi-tonon slabs of granite that are

broken to pieces and strewn across the

hillside. So, it just looks like there

was a lot of desolation, potentially

geological trauma in this area and then

these people, the Inca, discovered these

sites, built around them. You can see in

like the cracks and corners of all these

megaliths that there's like stone walls

that they've tried to kind of, you know,

reinforce. It's very visually obvious

actually when you go out to these

places.

>> Isn't it fascinating that people aren't

willing to consider the possibility that

this is from an older time like that?

It's heresy.

>> It's just such a knee-jerk reaction,

man. Like I think at the end of the day,

we're still using models from like

1800's explorers, right? And it's

[laughter] like what the [ __ ] Like

we've moved forward. There's a lot of

contradicting evidence and data in a lot

of these countries whether it be you

know Gobeclete in Turkey or the

potential infrastructure below the Giza

plateau and then the incredible uh

megaliths in Saxa in Peru like Sax

woman. It just feels like what we're

doing is rehashing the same status quo

orthodoxy and it's coming up against a

everpiling higher mountain of evidence.

And one of the cool things that I got to

do out in Peru was go to Saxa Woman

where they've got current archaeological

digs going on uh through the Chinkana

project which is a archaeological team

out there and they're doing digs and

they have actually discovered below like

10 meters down into the ground precision

carved blocks of stone that are coming

out of the earth and this is where in

this region in Kusco the Andian legends

are that there is a vast labyrinth below

ground connecting Kusco to Saxa woman

connecting Saxa woman to the sacred

valley all spreading out across the

Andian mountain range and this is like

an old legend this is what the shamans

and the you know sacred keepers of

knowledge would say in Peru we're

finding evidence for it we're literally

going underground now and seeing that

there are actually really precise

elements of infrastructure below Sako

woman and they're just beginning to

uncover this I was one of the first to

go down there and actually see these

blocks myself and it's just like this is

happening Now that you know we're

actually getting to a place where we can

start to validate some of these

forgotten myths and folklores or if you

want to call them conspiracies or

pseudocience from the archaeological

side of things, it's being evidenced

now.

>> That [clears throat] that's mad. So

these tunnels and c like what what is

exactly the structure that's supposed to

be down there and what have they

discovered? So, it's it's supposed to be

called the Chinkana, like the labyrinth,

and there's a few different chinkana

entrances around the range.

>> How big is it supposed to be?

>> Vast, multiple kilometers. It's

stretching from down Sax of Woman down

into Cusco and then off into the Andian

mountain range to the Sacred Valley.

>> It's very similar to some of the stuff

that they found in Egypt. That's banana.

>> Yes. And then what's interesting is you

have the same hallmarks and signatures

that you see in Egypt. So, you see the

stone knobs, you know, these little

protrusions that you get. I'm I'm

addicted to those, man, because they are

all over the world.

>> Do you have any theories?

>> I mean, I've listened to a lot of

theories. I I certainly think that the

>> We should show an image of it for people

that are don't know what we're talking

about.

>> Stone.

>> There's all of these incredible massive

stones that have been somehow or another

moved from a quarry sometimes that were

hundreds of miles away. They all have

these weird nubs on them and no one

knows what they are. And there's a bunch

of theories like maybe they help them

move these things. You see them all over

the place

>> and no one quite knows what those are.

>> India, you see them in um Egypt, you see

them in Peru. This is in Ole and

Tentambo in the Sacred Valley.

>> Missing this is one of the things that's

so infuriating about people that are

arrogant about gatekeeping information

and being the only ones that are allowed

to distribute the truth. Air quotes.

We're missing so much. There's no way

you really know. huge gaps of knowledge.

>> We're missing so much. And more time

goes on, as Graham Hawk Graham Hancock

always says, [ __ ] just keeps getting

older.

>> And now they just pushed back the use of

fire by 300,000 plus years.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. Exactly.

>> Like it just keeps going. It's not going

forward. It's going backwards over and

>> and anatomically modern humans, I think,

have gone much further back now in time.

They're looking at 800,000 years. And

so, you know, plus plus

>> plus possibly even a million. Th this is

what weirds me out about about these

creatures. Like human beings have gotten

to the point multiple times where we

were almost extinct. Uh the Toba volcano

I think we got down to

>> god was it

>> 7,000 people. Is that like the low

estimate?

>> Damn. Really?

>> Yeah. Yeah. It was it's a crazy story.

Like super volcanoes are unbelievably

devastating to just all life, you know,

because it just changes the temperature

of the earth, the entire surface,

whatever doesn't get blasted out of the

the ground by the actual volcano itself.

All the other stuff on the other side of

the world gets [ __ ] Like it's just it

just ruins everything. We got down to

like a few thousand people.

>> And then there was another time where

one of these guys came, God, I forgot

who that was as well. They were we were

talking about the the reality of uh

glaciation, right? And about what

happens during ice ages and how

devastating it can be.

>> And they were saying that we had gotten

at least multiple times in the history

of the earth to the point where it was

incapable of sustaining life.

>> Wow.

>> That within a few, you know, like

whatever parts per million of carbon

dioxide are necessary to support plant

life, we literally got to the part where

there was almost impossible to support

life. and then it rebounded and

everything's fine. So, there's so much

we don't know. This is so crazy to try

to pretend, you know, that people 600

years ago make this because we know

people 600 years ago lived there. We

have a lot of archaeological evidence

and we have

>> but you have weird structures on top of

obviously much more intricate and

complex structures.

>> Yeah. And again, they share the same

signatures as places like in Egypt and

they think you're a

>> cook. Yeah, they do. And it's just a

knee-jerk reaction. It's it's again it's

adherence to a status quo and and you

know you get channeled through a very

kind of fine wall in academia and I I

think that it can it can be a real

detriment actually to opening up your uh

ideas and and being a little bit more

expansive with what could be possible

because you do get put into a very

restrictive uh format in in the

traditional academic sense. And

obviously you have, you know, the

pressures of of funding and and things

like this, and it's you're not going to

get the funding if you're talking about

this crazy [ __ ] And it's just like a

self-fulfilling

uh censoring, you know. Um but with the

rise of alternative media,

>> we're changing the game a bit because

you can actually put a voice out there.

You can put an idea out there. It's not

completely stonewalled by the academic

circle. They can't actually prevent

people from discussing these ideas in an

open media format like this,

>> right? And if you put a video like you

did on X or on YouTube, people can like

like the video that you did on the

aliens, whatever they are, whatever they

are, people can see the CT scans.

>> You see the CT scans and you you're

automatically go, "Wait a minute. This

is 12,200 years old."

>> Yeah.

>> You're telling me someone faked this,

1200 years ago.

>> Like I don't think they could fake that

now. You don't I don't think they could.

>> Hollywood special effects guys, but then

the composition of the actual the bones

and everything like cartilage and muscle

tissue and

>> how would you fake that? Uh, circling

back, I texted Jesse to ask him for some

insight on what he asked for.

>> So, what he sent me was a screenshot of

a book where he got it from. I had to

translate

>> translation here shows

>> science of insemination.

>> Yeah. Jumano, I guess, is the local

word. Local word for what [laughter]

that area is called.

>> Right. Right. Right.

>> And this is a book he found from that

area, I think. And that says, Yeah.

Laboratory of insemination and cloning.

>> What?

>> That's what I'm saying. Look at all

these terms they use. Yuma is semen. You

may it will verb to inseminate. Yumage

the science of insemination. Yumage wise

inseminator. Yuma scion or clone.

>> This is what I'm saying bro.

>> Jume to clone. Jumage the science of

cloning. And Jupage wise cloner.

>> So basically

>> what the [ __ ] [laughter] man?

>> You know it's there. It's um it's

interesting and then obviously

>> go back to that please again

>> you get alongside this kind of

description you have these bodies you

have this architecture

>> mad yeah like this was dude [laughter]

this was like one little 10-second clip

in his documentary and it just made me

perk up like wait a minute what

>> the name of the place is like a

laboratory of insemination and cloning

>> and you're getting a smorgish board of

different beings coming out of this area

right like what

>> Jesse does add I think he's speculating

somewhat on the ethmology. Not

definitive, but

>> Right. Right. Right. But yeah, I mean

it's there.

>> That's why Jesse's better at this than

me. I'M LIKE, [laughter] IT'S CLEAR.

>> IT'S DONE. IT'S THERE.

>> WOW.

>> It is interesting. Yeah, it is

interesting. And I think it does, you

know, leads into what was happening on

this planet a long time ago.

>> It does. And it leads to like my point

was when I was getting to the whole

super volcano thing,

>> what if something happened that wiped

that species out? Right? Like clearly

there's no more Neandertols, right? We

they [clears throat] whatever happened,

whether it was us or disease or whatever

killed them off, they don't exist

anymore. We only have evidence that

people interbred with them.

>> What What is that thing? Is that thing

maybe one of us? Like another kind of

human? Like look, another kind of

primate, you know? Look how different we

are than Reese's monkeys, right? Like

we're all primates. We're so [ __ ]

different. Why would we assume that the

ones that we found so far, including

like

>> what did they find? Dennis Ovenans like

15 years ago or something like that,

>> right? Right.

>> And then Homo Julian's, what was that

one that was just a few years ago? Like

they keep finding these new versions of

people. Not new obviously, no,

>> but long extinct versions of people.

>> I think it's possible. And I also think

that there's a, you know, a potential.

What if what if a a particular subroot

species of homminid decided to opt in

for subterranean living and they escaped

a lot of the surface world traumas and

were actually able to kind of maintain

their society? I mean, look at all of

the weird evidence we have for these

vast underground. Darren C. would love

to go there. My god, what

just released a video on it. It's

bananas.

>> Could you imagine renovating your house

and [ __ ] finding that?

>> Renovating your house and finding

there's a room for 20,000 people under

your house. Would you say anything?

>> I don't know.

>> Yeah,

>> I'd have to think about where I live.

Depends on where I live. You live in a

place where the government could just

come and take your house.

>> Yeah. I'd be worried about that.

>> I would say it if I was in America, but

even I was in America. What if I really

like my house and now my house is

connected to heritage, right? And

[laughter]

>> what the [ __ ] archaeologists want to

come? Like, get out of my yard. [snorts]

>> Exactly. Exactly. But like, yeah, I

think about this and I think about all

of these different Good. No, I'm happy

to hear that. Happy to hear that. But

it's um it's interesting. And then you

have, you know, the strange stories like

from the Hopi tribe about the ant people

that came during a time of cataclysm and

they brought them underground and then

they brought them back up. And there's a

few like that. There was a really uh

interesting podcast. It was years ago. I

remember seeing this where they'd

brought these two Amazonian shamans on

the podcast like full headdress. They

spoke their own tribal language. They

needed an interpreter in the room and

the guy asked them what they thought

about aliens and they didn't understand

the question. didn't know what he meant

by alien. He was like thumbming through

this book and he put up a picture of a

gray and the tribes and went, "Oh,

that's Makwabu. That's Makwabu." And

they had a whole story about how this

was a human that became an ant that

lives underground and it can appear in

the divine light, but you should be very

careful with this being because it will

take your soul underground and you need

a very good shaman to bring your soul

back. And they were taking it real

seriously. Like, yeah. Yeah, dude.

[laughter]

So, it's like these tribal cultures,

they know, man. They they [ __ ] know.

>> Well, I think they have I think there's

a an ancient memory in people. I think

it's one of the reasons why these uh

post-apocalypse movies are so popular.

>> There's a lot there's a lot of

post-apocalypse movies where, you know,

like

>> people they they they figure out how to

make houses out of wood again and they

they're surviving and they make little

encampments and they fight off the

intruders from the outside. You know,

real like uh Walking Dead type [ __ ] with

no zombies.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I think there's a memory in

us of the surviving humans. I think

there's a memory

>> and I think we probably have been

through some terrible moments in the

earth's history where there was a

>> enormous disaster and we are the

ancestors of the survivors and I don't

think there was a lot of survivors.

>> No. In fact, I heard you talking about

that the other day where you were um

saying about like the and it's something

I agree with the necessity for um post

cataclysm, post-apocalypse,

the the strong men would inherit the

earth. You know,

>> monsters would inherit

>> monsters would inherit the earth, right?

And and so if you if we really were a

hyper advanced Atlantean type

civilization prior to this,

>> um maybe even more matriarchal than

patriarchal,

it would make sense that when things

fall apart obviously and now you need to

survive in the wild, the strong men and

the the you know savaged guys would

inherit the earth because they would be

the ones who would be able to uh you

know push through that type of

environment. And then if if that is the

case and you fast forward to where we

are now, look at our incredibly

competitive hyper kind of aggressive

culture that we have. It would make

sense that this was formed through the

seeds of trauma and through the seeds of

having to fight for survival and you

know recovering what was lost.

>> Yes. Which also makes sense why the past

the further you go back the more

barbaric these people are

>> you're dealing and you're like well it

took a while for people to learn maybe

but maybe you know you're you're dealing

with people that had to

>> they they probably had to cannibalize.

>> I mean they probably had to eat

everything they could. There was only a

few thousand of them left. If we really

got hit by asteroids, like if the

younger dus [clears throat] is correct,

>> it makes sense that it would take like

5,000 years for civilization to emerge

again

>> because that seems to be what happened.

It seems to be like you have the

literally the scraggliest survivors and

then eventually the earth gets back to

normal, but in even then it takes

thousands of years for people to just

have a semblance of what we're

experiencing today in terms of

civilization. And that's why prehistory

is so fascinating and the the Neolithic

in the stone age because okay so this is

a time when we were just basic hunter

gatherers. We had no you know

intelligence, no language, no real

understanding of the world according to

the mainstream. But this is where you

have multi-tonon geodetically aligned

solar equinox and and uh um what's the

lunar alignment? Um, I've completely

just blanked just cuz I'm a little bit

nervous of being on here, but [laughter]

um, like you know, like equinox

alignments and and like alignments to

the to the sun and the moon uh,

mathematically geodetically aligned to

what look like toic currents like

electromagnetic flows beneath the

ground. A lot of these stonehenes and

dolmans are placed on places where you

have strong electromagnetic

concentrations and just the the the

package of um mathematics and

engineering and stone crafting and the

knowledge of the sun and the stars and

your placement on the planet to create

things like you know Stonehenge and

these other areas in the world. How how

can you do that if you're just hunter

gatherers coming out of you know

animalistic behavior? it doesn't make

any sense. And then we kind of regress

as we go further into history and you

know the the stonework becomes less

impressive. The things become less

accurate. And I find that very

interesting. How is it at the beginnings

of our history some of the most

impressive structures exist?

>> Exactly. It doesn't make any sense. No.

>> And just Egypt alone with the

conventional timeline of 2,500 BC for

the Great Pyramid doesn't make any

sense.

>> No, it doesn't. I think that they most

likely settled around those pyramids.

most likely settle around them and and

you know the scans if these can be

validated fully and empirically with

digs and confirmation physically then

that changes everything.

>> It changes everything and you're seeing

a lot of people spaz out online.

>> Oh yeah,

>> it's [laughter] wonderful to watch.

>> It's been wonderful to watch because

when people are under pressure, the real

character gets revealed and they're

under a lot of pressure right now

because those scans that radio

tomography or whatever the [ __ ] it is,

>> synthetic capture radar. Yeah. It's

super accurate with stuff that we know

exists.

>> Yes,

>> that's what's a real problem for these

people. You want to believe it exists

when it can map out all these chambers

in the pyramid. You want to believe it

exists when it can map out things that

that we know that exist 50 ft

underground. You want to map you're

you're cool with that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But one kilometer of

subterranean Oh, no. No. Also,

>> multiple scans from multiple

>> over 200.

>> Yes. It's all the same message. They're

getting the same message. There's

pillars. Enormous pillars. They have

coils around them. [snorts] What pillars

with coils? All of them have coils.

>> And the whole structure is like almost 2

kilometers deep into the earth.

>> It's obscene. It's obscene. Like

literally as well, like 2 km of

infrastructure. It's like the whole

underground like people with copper

tools. Help me out.

>> And that was my frustration when it

first came out because when it came out,

obviously I did I did some like research

into the people involved in the Caffra

pyramid team. I found Filipo Beyond. I

found his harmonic SAR website where it

has listed the things like the Mosul Dam

in Iraq and the Grand Saso laboratory in

Italy, places that they had actually

done scans prior to even the Great

Pyramid, which was peer-reviewed. Their

2020 uh scan of the Great Pyramid was a

peer-reviewed paper. And then you fast

forward to now where they've got these

ones and you have people like, you know,

Flint Dibble and Pierce Morgan going,

"It's [ __ ] It's pseudocience. It's

never been done before. It's never been

tested." It's like, it has been done. It

has been tested. It's actually got a

patent. It's been peer- reviewviewed in

a paper.

>> Military applications, military

applications. And Filipo Beyond, he

works for the Italian government. Like

he's not some idiot. He's a very, very

intelligent man. And he can speak on the

science of this like, you know,

articulately. So

>> he works on top secret projects with the

Italian military.

>> I don't know if you caught like that

little scene in Jesse. He's like,

>> he didn't even say a [ __ ] word, man.

Like, could you not talk about that? He

just looks at him like, "Okay, we'll

just figure that out."

>> Like that. That's That's when you know,

man. That's when you know. But I mean

what whatever this is, everyone should

be fascinated. You shouldn't be

dismissing this if that's not even your

field of expertise. It just shows what

kind of a [ __ ] weirdo you are.

>> Like what you should be doing is going,

>> "Okay, how many scans do you have?

>> Yeah,

>> you have 200 scans of this.

>> Show me more.

>> Show me more. Tell me what's going on.

We should probably figure out what that

is." If imagine if the pyramids didn't

exist or imagine if it's like, you know,

the Sphinx at one point in time was

mostly covered with sand. Let's just

imagine some crazy scenario where the

entire pyramid structure is covered in

sand and nobody knows it exists and then

someone comes along and does a scan of

the surface the ground and says

>> you're not going to [ __ ] believe this

but there's some [ __ ] under there. Now

what if everybody goes that's ridiculous

that's preposterous and they don't look

>> and they don't look. We never find the

thing that we all agree exists because

you can go there, you can visit,

>> right?

>> It's there. Right. If that didn't exist,

you'd never [ __ ] believe in a million

years there's a structure with 2,300,000

stones that's perfectly aligned, the

true north, south, east, and west. And

you're dating it to somewhere around

4,000.

>> I mean, that sounds like some

pseudocience conspiracy talk to me, Joe.

>> Sounds like kookiness. Why is it more

kooky to say these people not only were

this advanced, they were even more

advanced?

>> Way more. They were down into the ground

2 km. It might have been a power

station.

Well, you know, Filippo thinks that he

seems to think that the spirals might

have actually been tied to hydrarology

and uh using mechanical stress and the

pisoelectric materials used in the great

pyramid and the plateau itself because

what you have is a very interesting

coupling between uh limestone and and

rose granite. So limestone is a very

good amplifier of acoustics and rose

granite is uh becomes electrical

pisoelectric under mechanical stress and

acoustics are a form of mechanical

stress. So there's like a certainly

something to be said about the fact that

the pyramids are acoustically tuned like

they're incredible inside the acoustics

and they've done lots of measurements

and experiments on on validating that

that it almost seems to go up in a

perfect scale up to the king's chamber.

Um, and then the king's chamber itself,

I believe, is focused around 110 to 115

hertz, which is interesting for

neurological uh reasons in terms of

influencing the brain. But on top of

that, you have again this incredible

coupling between limestone and rose

quartz granite where under the right

conditions, you absolutely could get

energetic responses from that. But as

well as this, you have the hydraological

knowledge, which is really quite

impressive. And when you look at places

like the Osiran in Abidos, which is a

kind of um sunken down temple, we call

everything a temple or a sacred site,

but we really don't know, do we? It

could be functional sites. Could be a

power plant of some form, like you said.

>> And uh the Assyrian in Abbidos next to

it, you have the seti, the first temple,

which is incredible. It's beautiful and

full of calligraphy and hieroglyphics.

And then you have this bare faceless

megalithic place called the Abid um the

Oyeran which has sunken down into the

ground perpetually filled with water. So

they've tried to pump it out and it just

fills back up again because it's

connected down into the uh into the

water table. And there's all these

different shafts and hydraological kind

of um components in this site that they

don't understand the full function of.

And then you look at places like um the

Great Pyramid where you go down to the

bottom of the Great Pyramid, you have

like the kind of core and this whole

area looks like it's been water eroded

as if it was flooded out repeatedly and

use some sort of uh like a pump or some

sort of like sequencing area where you,

you know, push water in and then let it

out, push water in and let it out. And

so Filippo thinks that maybe these

spirals bringing water up and if you're

a thousand meters down, you're tapping

into like ancient aquifers. So you could

be drawing up a really impressive amount

of like ancient ancient water. And I

just wonder if same with Peru, there's

something incredibly important about

accessing this kind of water at the real

depths of the earth. And they seem to

have a real interest in doing that. So

perhaps the pyramids are in some way

like I mean if these spirals are real,

it's like a plug, isn't it? It's like

plugged into the earth, connected down

into these aquifers. Perhaps it was

utilizing uh water as an energetic

medium through the materials. I would

recommend to anybody to check out

Christopher Dunn's work.

>> Oh, fantastic.

>> Uh I had him on the podcast and he

explained to us his theory. He's an

engineer. Yeah. And he started studying

the structure of the pyramid and his

conclusion was the entire thing was

probably used to generate energy.

>> And it's like what? And but when he

breaks it down in terms of I'll butcher

the math if I even try, but in terms of

the dimensions, the way it's made, and

the fact that you could have something

that was down in the basement that was

somehow or another creating a resonance,

>> right? Right. Right.

>> That would have this effect, the shafts

that go out straight out into space, and

the fact that there's evidence that they

they would possibly use these shafts to

pour chemicals in and it would create

gases and

>> Well, this is pretty nuts. It is nuts.

But, you know, I was when I was uh not

the last time I was out in Egypt, but

the time before then, I was out there

with a guy called Jeffrey Drum. Uh he's

got a YouTube channel called the Land of

Chem. And he's all about this in terms

of the chemical mass manufacturing that

he believes was going on in the pyramids

and these other areas. And uh we filmed

all of the uh all of the coverage of

that if anyone wants to go and see it on

our on my YouTube channel. um taking us

through areas in the Giza plateau where

you have an incredible concentration on

the Giza plateau of iron veins and they

all seem to be emanating from the

pyramids. So if you go around the

pyramids you'll see these iron vein

networks that are flowing out from the

central point and these iron veins are

heading down into what are called these

boat pits.

>> When you say iron veins so like

>> iron ore iron ore is it it's not on the

surface it's deep in the ground. Well, I

mean, there's some on the surface, so

you can actually see the snaking kind of

veins of iron that's kind of rusted out

and oxidized, and you can you can make

it out, but surely it must be deeper as

well, but it seems to be stretching out

from the pyramids down into these

>> contaminating from the pyramids.

>> So, his theory is that they built the

pyramid going deep.

>> Yeah. Yeah. His theory is that they

built the pyramids on top of these iron

veins, particularly because this place

was getting lightning strikes uh

frequently and they were using Yeah, I

know. I know. I know. It's a giant

lightning rod,

>> dude. I mean, these things are built in

a way and they were gold capped at one

point like high

>> and gold is a really good conductor

>> conductor of electricity for electronics

>> and the Giza plateau is covered in these

conductive iron vein networks which the

pyramids do seem to be built upon. Now,

this is, you know, his personal theory,

but he, you know, he's an American who's

been living out in Cairo now for about

six or seven years, I believe. He's been

he just decided to up and move out there

and dedicate his life to exploring these

places. And so he took us across uh you

know all of these amazing areas and and

showed us things I'd never seen before

in Egypt. Um but his theory on on the on

the pyramids is similar to Christopher

Dunn in terms of some form of chemical

manufacturing taking place. And if you

know um the original name for Egypt was

ChemT

is the beginning of chemistry and

alchemy. So this is where one of the

root words where we then got chemistry

and alchemy from. So, it is the land of

chemistry and alchemy. And

>> that's bananas.

>> There you go. Is this uh

>> from his video?

>> Oh, this is one of his videos. Great.

>> This is the iron ore.

>> So, these are the Yeah, I believe he's

probably highlighting the iron veins and

these iron veins head out into what are

called boat pits, which they believed in

the mainstream uh interpretation.

>> You're freaking me out with the land of

Kem. That's that is crazy. But when did

they name that? I don't know when it was

named that, but it was originally

referenced as Kemet in some of the

ancient Greek. And you know there's

there's there's reference to it being

called chemt

>> and it really means the same thing.

>> It's what people believe is the

continuation of alchemy and chemistry

because you get so much alchemy from

Egypt and obviously this is the place

where you get Hermes tismaistice and

hermeticism and the philosopher stone

kind of leaks out from these types of

areas. So I I think that there is a lot

to suggest this. Plus we actually know

in the mainstream that they were

incredible chemists like regardless of

you know exotic forms of chemistry that

we know they were using acids and natron

baths and things like this. Like the

Egyptians knew what they were doing even

from the perspective that we understand

regardless of getting a little bit

deeper into it. But yeah.

>> Right. And you're talking about

Egyptians like Cleopatra times.

>> Right. So like we know that they were

doing it. Exactly.

>> Historically.

>> Exactly. Yeah. That's that's why it's so

strange. Like if this structure is

proved to be real, if they start an

excavation and they they have

irrefutable proof. Like without a doubt

there's some man-made structures that

are beyond description underneath the

ground. What happens now? Like what does

everybody do? Like what what do all

these dorks that think that that's a

tomb?

What do [laughter] you

>> What do you do? What do you do to all

those dorks that think like it makes

sense that they built that? It was a

national pastime. It's a national

project. Come on, bro.

>> Settle the [ __ ] down.

>> I think at that point you have you you

have to

>> Well, I think the pyramids uniquely

stand as uh like an intelligence desk

>> because they are so crazy when you have

stones that are so large that are taken

from quaries hundreds of miles away,

>> 500 miles away. A lot of these people

supposedly didn't even have the wheel.

>> So what is this? What? You don't think

this is crazy? Like this isn't this

isn't like, oh, we know they use the

wood from these trees to build these

homes. Like this is bananas.

>> Whole level.

>> This is something that would take us

hundreds of years today to build.

>> And one of the things that is said so

much, but I guess it's kind of shrugged

off just because it's said so much, but

it's actually a really important point

to highlight. There are no [ __ ]

hieroglyphs in the pyramids. Not one.

There's not a single symbol, not a

single element of what we would

understand to be dynastic Egypt. And and

so like you have this incredible

contradiction when you go to places like

the Valley of the Kings and the Valley

of the Queens, gold, and you know, it's

adorned in patterns. You can't see a

square inch of stone where there isn't

something filled to venerate these

people. And yet the pyramids are bare

bare. And you know, when you go inside

them, you're going to go to Egypt,

right? You're going to go

>> eventually. Yeah. Yeah. But when you

when you go inside them, it just feels

mechanical. It feels functional. It's,

you know, big port colasses of rose

granite and these shafts going off

perfectly vertical off into you can't

even see. And there's nothing about it

that feels spiritual orerary at all.

Just looking at it, it looks to me like

an advancement of what we are that's

almost like indescribable. Like a

thousand-year advancement of where we

are currently to build something like

that, right?

>> It seems so nuts.

>> And there's obviously stuff that doesn't

seem as nuts. It's just beautiful and

impressive, right?

>> You know, just like the coliseum in Rome

is

>> or like, you know, the cropolis.

You know, all those things are

fascinating and incredible

>> craftsmanship and engineering and

architecture. Amazing. Yeah. But then

there's Egypt and you go, "Shut the [ __ ]

up." Like, "What is that? That's nuts."

>> Yeah. And I resent the idea that we're

like taking it away from them. It's

like, "Let's just be logical about this

and actually assess the toolkit and

assess the capabilities and then look at

the evidence of what we're seeing."

>> Also, we're not because it's people that

lived in the same place. So, it's

literally just the older versions of

them,

>> right? It's not like you're saying, you

know, Chinese people came and they did

it all and then they flew back. No,

that's not what anybody's saying. We're

just saying more ancestors. Your

ancestors, not just the timeline's off.

The timeline seems funky. Clearly, there

were some amazing things that the

Egyptians did during the accepted

timeline. [clears throat] I mean, they

were a fascinating culture all through

till the end, right?

>> But the when you go really far back,

whatever that is is nuts. Mhm.

>> And when you're saying that you know

exactly when it was dated when there's

so much evidence of just today modern

doing these reconstructions and fixing

and all the the the the the feet of the

Sphinx and they're covering it with new

[ __ ] rocks. Like they've always been

doing renovations. They always do. So

all this stuff that you're saying like

we got a piece of wood from inside one

of the cracks like [ __ ] that doesn't

mean anything. Exactly.

>> You can't date those rocks.

>> No. Unless you get under those

[ __ ] to the bottom and take a

chunk of organic material from deep

underneath that thing so you can know

when the first stones are placed. You

don't know. You're guessing.

>> And I I think that that's why we're

coming to a point now where there's such

resistance from the mainstream when you

see scans like this because they they've

built themselves into a wall. It would

you basically have to admit, yeah, we

we're just [ __ ] wrong. You're you

also see like you know

>> them confronted by real evidence. Yeah.

>> Like real evidence. And like just when

someone takes you for a walk inside the

king's chamber and you look up at those

stones that somehow they got like how

high are they in the sky?

>> Mhm.

>> How high are they in the ceiling? How

high are they? Do you remember?

>> Oh god. No, I don't. Sorry.

>> Well, 80 ton stones

>> 80 tons in the king's chamber. 80 tons.

>> How tall? Let's look.

>> And that's near the apex. That is near

the apex.

>> Jamie, please put this into perplexity.

How tall is the ceiling inside the

king's chamber in the Great Pyramid?

>> Cuz these things are perfectly placed in

there. Like even if you drag those

somehow or another across the mountains

for 500 miles and got it to the pyramid,

how the [ __ ] did you get it up there?

>> Exactly.

>> How'd you get them all to line up? How

many people got squished?

[clears throat]

>> Chamber itself spans 10.5 meters long by

5.2 m wide. How tall is the ceiling?

uh 19 feet. But it's also but it's also

near the top of the pyramid. It's

incredibly high up in the pyramid as

well. They had to lift it to that point.

>> You have to you have to get these 80 ton

blocks 19 ft and then place them

perfectly.

>> And and there's absolutely again there's

nothing kingly about the king's chamber

at all. It's just completely a bare room

of rose granite with this sarcophagus

coming up out of the out of the floor

with a huge chunk um missing. And

actually, if you look at where that huge

chunk is missing and you turn around and

you look at the wall, there's actually a

massive impact uh on the wall. There's

like a big part of the wall that's been

broken off. So, it makes you wonder if

maybe that was jettisoned off at some

point from, you know, power or, you

know,

>> what do you think is in that the what

they call the sarcophagus? Do you have a

theory? Does anybody have a

>> I've been inside it. There's nothing

inside of it. It's

>> You got in it?

>> Yeah. I've laid I laid down inside of

it. It's kind of creepy.

>> With a grandmaster of the Templar Order

chanting over me.

>> Oh, fun.

>> Yeah. That was my first trip to Egypt.

[laughter] You can take a video of that

and put it up on X and no one's ever

gonna take you seriously, right? Well,

this guy's a [ __ ] cook. [laughter]

>> I am I am a cook.

>> Well, you have to be, you know. Yeah,

>> you have to be a cook to really enjoy

this.

>> And you have to be on the fringe and and

also I think some of the, you know, most

impressive scientists and creators have

been people on the fringe who are

laughed at by all their peers. Well,

especially now because the way the way

universities work is essentially there's

a person that is the most important

person in [clears throat] that field,

right, at that university. And there's a

bunch of people that want grants and

there's a bunch of people that want to

play nice, they want their career, they

want tenure, and you got to be careful

whose toes you step on. And if this one

guy is the gatekeeper of or a group of

guys like him at various universities or

the gatekeepers to this information,

you're going to come up with the current

bottleneck problem that we see where

people are not just unwilling but

aggressively attacking people that

question this. Which is why they called

Graham Hancock show the most dangerous

show on television. Like that is so

crazy. You have so many shows where

people get murdered.

>> That's the best way to make a show go

viral though, isn't it? Best way to make

a show go viral. Don't [ __ ] watch

this show. You know what I mean? Great

job on the people. did a great job.

>> But it does bring up a a disturbing and

and worrying element of it. Just how

quickly the mainstream media in various

outlets all aligned at once to call him

everything from a racist to a

pseudocientist to a conspiracy theorist.

And you know, it is an alarming kickback

that he's taken in his stride

profoundly. Profoundly.

>> He's a wonderful guy.

>> He's great. I can't wait to speak to

him. I literally missed him by like 3

days when I went out to Peru. I was

gutted.

>> He was my first real guest.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he was, wasn't

he?

>> Yeah. Me and [laughter] him and Duncan,

we had so much fun.

>> Oh my god, that must have been flew. I

need to rewind right from England. We uh

got him to drive to my house. And then

once he got to my house, we ordered

pizza. We all ate pizza and I couldn't

believe I'm hanging out with Graham

Hancock. I was so giddy. It was like one

of the first actual guests.

>> Giddy moments. Like, yeah, you're just

like, I can't believe I'm actually

sitting with this dude. Yeah, because

the guest before that had mostly been

comics, right? Or some person that I

thought was interesting, you know, some

guy that I met at the comedy store. I'm

like, "What do you do? You're a

therapist and what do you give people?

How's it [laughter] work? Come on over.

>> Come and talk to me about it."

>> Yeah. I did a lot of those. But he was,

I think, the first real guest.

>> Was there like a a choice, like a

conscious decision for you to kind of

like evolve it from just, you know,

comedians talking shop to actually

getting different guests on from a

variety of subjects? Because I know

you're a curious person. And you've

probably been researching these things

even at the point before you were doing

that kind of podcast cuz well clearly

you were but yeah like what was the

natural evolution of that for you?

>> Well I was always into books about

ancient history and whether it's you

know like modernly you know commonly

accepted narrative or Graham Hancock

stuff. But I got into Graham Hancock

stuff I think in the '9s Fingerprints of

the Gods came out and I [ __ ] loved

it. I I was so fascinated by I couldn't

shut the [ __ ] up about it. tell people

like you got to see this. Like I think

this guy's right. I I think we're we are

a history with amnesia or a race with

amnesia.

>> And then um of course [snorts] I watched

Chariots of the Gods, that film, which I

thought was very kooky and fun. It's

very campy and fun. And here's the thing

about that. I dismissed it for a long

time and I said it's nonsense. And I was

I actually had lunch once. Eric

Weinstein took me to uh lunch at Peter

Teal's house where we talked to uh

>> Von Danakin and Right. Right.

>> It was fun fun conversation like

interesting. I'm talking to he's a

fullon true believer

>> von Danakin.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Fully

>> of the alien theory the ancient aliens

theory and back see I've gone in like

multiple stages in my cognitive

dissonance [laughter]

>> and for a while I was all in with the

aliens.

>> I hear you. I'm the same though. Then

for a while I was like, "No, no, no.

There was an advanced civilization and

we're just a rebuilding of that

civilization and that's probably why

we're so barbaric." And now I'm like,

"Why am I why are they mutually

exclusive?"

>> It could be a mix.

>> Yeah. I don't think they are mutually

exclusive.

>> At one point the gods walked amongst us,

you know, like

>> and that's when I see the things like

the tridactyl mummies and I'm like,

"Okay, okay, okay. What is that? What

are we talking? Why is why is Peru so

weird? Why do they have artwork that you

can only see from the sky?" Like there's

a lot of weird [ __ ] going on here. Like

don't don't be so quick to jump.

>> Exactly.

>> My point is like I I've always been

fascinated by

>> stories. First of all, um any subject

that makes you ridiculous for

considering it. I'm always like,

>> "What's that about? Why why is that

ridiculous that itch a little bit?" Even

the cookie ones like ghosts,

>> Bigfoot, all the cookie ones.

>> Like why? What's the What's the

resistance? Why did Russian astronaut

tell me a Bigfoot story?

>> Yeah, he I mean, pinch of salt, but he

uh he claimed that he had been told this

by a military guy out in out in Russia

that a uh they were they were in the

wreck room of this like Air Force base.

And apparently, this is according to

this Russian astronaut trainer at the

Yuri Gagarin Space Center in Moscow. And

he said that this uh this Yeti Sasquatch

type being apparently just walted in

like just walked into their wreck room,

helped itself to some water from the

water uh thing, waved, and then

vanished.

I don't know.

So this guy, what was his job?

>> He was a trainer of astronauts at the

Yori Gagarin Space Center in Star City,

Moscow. Bro, they probably dosed him up

with so many [ __ ] They did

>> MK Ultra drugs.

>> Yeah. I I mean,

>> if you're you're holding on to that kind

of information,

>> an interesting story.

>> They probably experiment on [snorts]

you.

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah.

>> I probably gave that guy some I've never

given the the Sasquatch thing. It's uh

it's due course in in researching it to

be honest. I've been very dismissive of

that. But maybe it's I mean maybe you

know I mean like the demographic years I

used to have a Sasquatch Bigfoot

footprint like a cast like a plaster

cast on the desk [laughter] that uh rest

in peace Dr. Jeffrey Meldrum. He just

recently died.

>> I had him on the as a guest on the show

once too. He's a he's so crazy. I told

him I asked him if he was so crazy but

in a wonderful way. [clears throat] I

said if if you could cut a finger off

>> to know that Sasquatch was real, would

you do it? He was like yes instantly.

What the [laughter] [ __ ] dude? That's

your finger. Don't say yes to that. Just

the information just comes out. You

don't have to lose a [laughter] finger.

>> Damn it.

>> Just sitting there with half a finger.

>> I think Bigfoot was a real thing.

>> Yeah.

>> I think that's why there's so like

>> Do you think it was just like some sort

of like branch of creature? Cuz so many

people think it's like an

interdimensional being or

>> It could be that too, but I think it's

Gigantopithecus initially.

Gigantopithecus was an absolute real

thing that we didn't [clears throat]

even know existed until the I believe it

was the 20s. Yeah, around then

>> guy find it teeth in an apothecary shop

in China and then they started

researching it and finding where the dig

sites were

>> and you know they found jawbones that

indicate that it was bipeedal. So this

is a bipeedal homminid that's 8 to 10 ft

tall. What is that? That's Bigfoot.

>> That is Bigfoot

>> and that's probably and also this thing

100% lived around modern human beings.

Like what we are today, it lived around

us. So imagine you see one of those

things. Well, first of all, you're going

to [ __ ] run like hell. You're gonna

have stories. This thing lives in the in

the woods or in the jungle. Stay out of

this spot. That's where this thing

lives. And that's going to be passed on

from generation to generation to

generation until even after they're

gone. Now it's just a whisper. Now it's

just a thing. It's now it's a mystery

man that lives in the woods.

>> Are are there like are they like

antiquated Bigfoot stories like outside

of just modern? Yes.

>> Yeah. Oh, without a doubt. Especially

Native American cultures. That's what's

interesting is like Native American

tribes. There's multiple obviously many

different tribes, many different

languages, right?

>> Yeah.

>> They all have a word for this thing that

let's put this into perplexity. Yeah.

>> How many different Native American names

are there for for Bigfoot?

>> Cuz I believe Sasquatch is a Native

American. I don't know which tribe had

that, but there's multiple different

names for this hairy creature that lives

in the woods. But they don't have names

for like a giraffe that lives in the

woods. They don't have like other

mystical animals, mythical creatures.

They just have this one.

>> Yeah.

>> And this one is a [ __ ] weird one.

>> Well, that's what I mean with the

interdimensional aspect. It's treated

differently than just an animal even

from like these

>> that might be real, too. This is part of

the problem. It's like

>> we might be dealing with multiple

different things. It might not even be

Gigantopithecus.

>> Saskat Skookum. That's right. I've heard

that. Omar. That's right. There was a

movie called Omar. The guy who did the

American Werewolf in

>> what? That's just the last words you say

when you see Bigfoot. Oh my.

>> Yeah. [laughter]

>> Uh Chai Tanka. Big big elder brother.

>> 70 to 80 names.

>> Wicked cannibal. Oh boy. Wendago.

Wicked. Yeah, Windo. I've heard that

one. Windo.

>> Yeah, I've heard that one. and

how to say that

>> big god and that's a Navajo name. So

there's a bunch of different there's a

bunch underneath that too.

>> Yeah. Like say about 70 to 80 names when

accounting for variance across 50

tribes.

>> Okay. So what is that?

>> And it's the same with the alien graves

like the ant people you know.

>> Well and then it brings the same thing

like brings us to the same subject of

what if there is a way to traverse

dimensions? What if this is not some as

simple as something gets in a spaceship

and it comes here from another planet?

What if it's coming from another place?

And what if that doorway is open to

other things? And what if some of those

things are a Sasquatch? Like and under

the right conditions, this pathway is

open. And you maybe it's not even

something that actually exists, but you

can see exists in our tangible timeline,

but you can see under heavy stress,

under like anxiety. And imagine what

gets you more stressed out than being in

the woods at night, right? The woods at

night creates a lot of anxiety for

people because there's all these sounds

and you're looking around. It's dark.

You're vulnerable. Especially if you

live in real woods, like woods that have

predators in them. It's sketchy. And I

[clears throat] bet there's different

states of mind that you would if if

there are if is if there's some sort of

a possibility, some sort of a way that a

an intelligent creature can get to a

point where it has the technology to

access other dimensions. It can go into

other spaces.

>> Would you even be able to see it all the

time? Would you only be able to see it

if you were like under a highly anxious

state in the woods? You're kind of a

little freaked out. You're more open to

weird things and then it senses that and

communicates with you.

>> Well, we are.

>> It sounds kooky.

>> We're dominated by our perception and we

have such a narrow bandwidth of visual

perception. You know, you get up the

whole light spectrum and look at visible

light. Just this tiny corridor of

visible light that we're able to see.

Obviously, we've developed IR and, you

know, different and if you film the

night sky with infrared, you get weird

[ __ ] You get these orbs and things that

seem to fly by. And um I think that it

is a perceptual thing because the reason

I even started my YouTube channel is

because I've had my own experiences with

UFO type phenomena that were entirely um

initiated by me. Like I asked for them

to come and and they did. See, that

sounds kooky. I'll take that clip and I

dismiss you immediately. This guy's wait

for it.

>> But this is one of the things that

people have been saying for a long time

is that there's there's actual groups of

people and there was even some guy who

was like

>> somehow or another connected to the

government. Um that was saying that they

lead these people out. They go out into

the desert and they have a like some

sort of a secret frequency. He didn't

want to discuss it that they can push

out. they can send out the secret

frequency and it'll call them in and

that other people have done it simply by

willing them in. That's what I do.

>> So sitting there and putting out this

message that you're trying to

communicate with them and then

eventually they show up.

>> Yeah. I I I can't speak to

technologically assisted psionics and

all that kind of stuff, but um do you

want to hear my UFO story? Okay. First

of all, where did you come up with this

idea on your own or did you hear about

people doing this? No, I I uh I heard of

it from someone who's a quite polarizing

figure in the UFO community. I know

you've spoken to him, Dr. Steven Greer.

Um but I

>> polarizing people are right sometimes.

>> He's right on this.

>> Yeah, they could be right on a lot of

things.

>> He's right on this. And you know, I uh I

know that a lot of people have issues

with with Greer, but I he was actually

my intro into the UFO subject. So, I'll

tell you the story. [clears throat]

Sorry about my throat. Let me just take

a sip of water, actually. So um

this was uh

>> how did he find out about it?

>> It's a good question. Um he had a

near-death experience believe and from

that was actually apparently

communicated to and shown things that

when he came out of that experience he

became

>> a samadei type you know teacher and you

know got profoundly interested origin

story

>> brilliant origin story. Um [laughter]

my origin story was that I was really

bored during co no so like honestly

though um it was actually in 2019 that I

had these experiences and I I do think

that it's very important to lay a bit of

foundational groundwork because I think

a lot of people will recognize this as

well and it's something that you

mentioned with Bigfoot being in a high

stress environment in the forest maybe

that changes your perception and uh I I

think that there's a degree of trauma

and a degree of intense emotional uh

moments that can bring about paran

paranormal experiences. I don't know

why, but it does seem to be something

that a lot of people relate to. Yes, I

was in a very dark time. Yes, I was

having a very traumatic time or yes, I

was going through something and then

this happened. And so, for me, um I was

in my third year of university and

struggling. Just had a whole mix of

personal issues going on. Um so, I I

ended up kind of dropping out before I

finished and uh was just in a really bad

rut. And my dad was worried about me and

he uh he said look I'm I'm out in this a

bit of a long story but it's important

to lay this foundation I think before I

talk about what I actually experienced

because it plays in. Um my dad was

worried he he was out in France at the

time and he said look do you want to

come out and stay at this place with me

and just you know kind of relax and

bring yourself back to normal. I was

like yeah okay. So I came out and uh he

was like uh I've got these books that

I've been reading. I think they'd be

really beneficial for you. Um you should

read them. I was like okay like you know

I don't see how a book's going to

change. Did he often recommend books?

>> Not massively. No. In fact, no. No. This

was the only time he recommended books,

which is interesting. Um, and they were

a series of books called Conversations

with God by Neil Donald Walsh. Have you

ever heard of them?

>> No.

>> Okay. So, it's interesting. It kind of

ties into, I suppose, the chneled works,

things that people believe they receive.

>> Oh, wait a minute. I have heard of this.

>> He's quite well known. He's quite well

known. Um he, you know, was a he was a

radio DJ, broke his neck in a car

accident, became homeless, finally

managed to get back on his feet, but was

still struggling, wrote an angry letter

to God, and then apparently woke up at

3:00 in the morning and was having like

voices literally telling him to write

things down as he wrote all of this

down. And this became conversations with

God. It's literally a dialogue of him

asking questions and him receiving

answers, which he interpreted as from

God. Now, that is intense. And I'm

definitely not here to say this is a

Bible and everyone should read it.

However, it was incredibly impactful for

me at that time. The things that I was

reading about, it was a very different

idea of God, universal consciousness,

leaning towards more than some weird

patriarchal cloud living figure that

just never made sense to me. So, it it

got me in and I was reading it and it

helped tremendously, weirdly enough, um,

which I didn't expect. And that put me

on a path towards researching

metaphysics and philosophy and and

science and consciousness and and that's

where it really started for me. But then

a couple years down the line, I found

myself in another depression in a sense

because I felt like I'd accumulated a

lot of information about various

different topics that I thought were

like these big questions and big answers

and big esoteric things. And I just got

to a point I was like none of this is

actually helping me in my life. In fact,

I'm actually feeling like [ __ ] worse

for looking into all of this thing and I

don't know how this is going to benefit

me. So I was sitting on my bed one night

and I just I guess you could call it a

prayer. I just sat on my bed and said

out loud to the universe, like I I need

something that validates all of this.

Like, if I'm meant to be looking into

these big picture questions about the

universe and consciousness, if there's

something tangible here, like I I I need

to know and I want evidence and I'm

ready for it. So, give me it. I want

that. And then a week later, my best

friend at the time, he was like, "Uh,

hey, I've I was watching this

documentary. You've got to check it out.

It's called Unagnowledged by this guy

called Dr. Steven Greer." And this was

my first introduction to the UFO

subject. So I was like, "Okay, cool."

Sit down, watch that. Very good

documentary. All of these different, you

know, highlevel officers and missile

launch guys talking about UFOs. It got

me in. And then near the end of that is

when he brings up this concept of C5,

you know, initiating contact with these.

You can actually have your own

experiences by getting into a particular

meditative state.

If I hadn't been making that request on

my bed the week prior, I probably just

would have watched that documentary and

gone about my life. But it felt like a

very strong message to me personally

because I've been asking for something

to validate these ideas around

consciousness. Now there's a guy saying,

"Yeah, you can actually have an

experience by going out and attempting

to, you know, ask for one."

>> So talk me through the process of

actually doing that.

>> So [clears throat] he has

>> Did you get it on the first try? No, he

>> How many How many times did you try?

>> It's It was a weird gradual thing where

things were happening in the sky that

were enough to keep me going out but not

enough for me to be like, "Okay, this is

legit."

>> So, like, how many times did you go out

before it worked?

>> Uh, before I saw what I really really

saw, um, probably about a month of going

out.

>> Damn, that's commitment.

>> But I was seeing things, but they but

they weren't

>> it it was kind of just enough to make me

like, okay, What are we seeing?

>> Lots of what the contact community call

flash bulbs. Flashes of light in the

night sky in a void of space repeatedly

without any discernable object attached

to it. Just one flash. And then

>> send a thought, another flash,

>> send a thought, another flash.

>> And this happened multiple times. I've

been someone who watches the night sky

all my life. I'm used to seeing

satellites. I know what flares are.

>> Maybe an hour or two hours, you know.

>> And so you sit down. Are you seated?

>> No, I I usually be standing with my neck

crane to the sky, but I would be

>> Why don't I get a lounge chair?

>> I know.

>> Meditative.

>> I know. I don't know. I don't think

about things properly sometimes when I

do.

>> Just lay down on the ground.

>> Just lay on the grass.

>> You get a better view of the sky.

>> Yeah. But it's cold in England and it

was mildwy on the floor.

>> Get a tarp. Yeah. Yeah. But but I was um

I was essentially because of again being

asking asking the universe for

something. The universe seemed to be

giving me some sort of response. It kind

of lit a fire up under me and I started

going outside and honestly a lot of

people like even Gria has this

incredibly uh you know complicated

method using samadi and you know doing

various things. I didn't do any of that.

I just breathed in through the nose and

out through the mouth until I felt very

calm and then began to very clearly

model my thoughts around the concept of

I want something to respond to me and

then I would essentially visualize that

that was emanating from me that these

thoughts were emanating from me and it

didn't take very long before I'd have

flashes of light in the sky that just

seemed weird because I've never seen

anything like that or an incredible

influx of what look and behave like

satellites but just at an incredibly

high level where it's just like what

what's going on here? And it just felt

like a a kind of stepby-step progression

until in August of 2019, I had four

incredibly vivid and real experiences

with orange orbs of light. Um, really

profound.

>> What was that? What happened?

>> So, I was outside at this point. It

become my routine. It was in the summer

of August and it was relatively warm.

So, I was out doing this quite a lot,

seeing little flashes, seeing things in

the sky, trying to figure out what

exactly it was that I was seeing. And um

I was standing at the back of my garden

looking towards my house, night sky,

crystal clear, and uh I saw at the

beginning a flash of light in in the

corner of the sky. So, I looked over and

I saw this flash, another flash, another

flash, and it was just blinking, but it

was static in space. And then it started

moving down. every time it blinked, it

would move further down. And I was

observing this and then it settled above

two stars and kind of created the the

apex of a triangle. And it was just

flashing above these two stars. And I

was watching this for a while and it

happened for long enough where I just

decided, all right, I'm just thank you,

whatever you are. I'm just going to keep

panning around the sky here and looking

around. And as I panned my head, I saw

that there was a cloud, but I didn't

really look at it. And I turn around

here, come back, and I see this cloud

again. And this time I really look at

it. And this cloud, Joe, had so strange.

It's like a dark cloud. Um, but when you

stared at it, it had a staticky

appearance. It's very hard to describe

other than imagine a light overlay of TV

static. There was particles. It was

agitated. It was shimmering. Something

not a cloud. Like certainly not anything

I've ever seen in my life. And if we

pretend this microphone is my house and

this cloud is here, it's drifting this

way. So eventually it's going to drift

past my house and go this way, at least

according to its natural trajectory.

It gets to my house and it does a right

angle turn and it starts coming towards

me. So eventually it's going to be above

my head. This cloudlike formation,

>> a cloud does a right angle turn in the

sky.

>> Abrupt as in 90 degrees. It's going like

this. And now it's going like this

towards you. High up in the sky, but

it's now in my path. Complete 90 degree

shift from its trajectory. And I saw it

like a jarring. Now it's going this way.

Okay. So, at this point, I'm rooted in

place. I'm not really scared, but I'm

shocked at the fact that this thing did

what it just did. And I'm watching as

it's coming closer and closer, you know,

towards where I'm going to be.

Eventually, it's directly above my head.

It sounds so crazy and you know Terrence

McKenna said something like this. He was

like you know if you tell the

unvarnished truth about a UFO experience

you'll be taken for a fool. It's like

it's true. You know if you if you just

tell people what really happened but

this is what really happened. So this

cloud comes above my head

>> as it's directly above my head. this

cloud

like sucked into itself as if there was

a central vacuum, a central point where

it just got sucked into itself and it

revealed a triangle formation of about