before we start I've got to be honest

with you about something

um when we recorded this episode with

Mel c

um it was honestly one of the most

moving heartbreaking inspiring revealing

conversations I've ever had on this

podcast and I've been looking forward to

sharing this conversation with you for

some time now

um and then we had an incident where one

of our hard drives was stolen and we

lost the audio for Mel's mic which is

really really heartbreaking because of

all the episodes to lose the audio for

for it to be this one is has been very

hard to deal with and I think I want to

start by apologizing to Mel because she

came here she shared her story in such a

profound vulnerable way and I've carried

the sense of guilt because

um because when people come here not

only are they giving us their time but

they're giving us their story and for

some people

as is the case in this conversation it's

the first time that that story has been

shared in this way so I've been really

struggling with that but because it was

such a profound story and to to make

sure we honor all of that which Mel gave

us by coming here

um we spent a lot of time fixing the the

audio we do have which actually comes

from one of the cameras that's rolling

not from the microphone in front of her

we've worked with a specialist to try

and repair the audio as much as we

possibly can and this is one of the

episodes where I'm asking you for a

favor which is to stay with us I know

it's not always easy to listen to audio

when it's not as crisp as this audio

sounds right now but there's a story

underneath the um lack of clarity in the

audio the lack of Christmas crispness in

the audio that needs to be heard it's

one of the most amazing Stories we've

ever shared

um and so I hope you enjoyed this

episode and we've put many many many

many many many many many many many

measures in place to make sure that we

never lose any audio or any footage ever

again

in this case it was out of our control

but um

this episode is worth it so we're

putting it out anyway

you're gonna enjoy it there's an element

of guilt attached to my success it was

join us do you know because I had a

secret and it was killing me

[Music]

early days of the Spice Girls were the

best and I feel blessed but with it has

been some really tough times it was

[ __ ] dramatic how it went out

the tablet media were burrito we all got

called a terrible horrible things

did you notice a change in yourself at

all after that definitely that was the

Catalyst why I became very very ill I

couldn't control my eating I was

struggling to get out of bed it's

killing me

[Music]

I think

did becoming famous ruin my life does it

ruin me

sometimes I question

um

yeah

without further Ado I'm Stephen Bartlett

and this is the Diary of a CEO I hope

nobody's listening but if you are then

please keep this to yourself

[Music]

when I when I sit here with people I'm I

I always try and figure out the best

starting point I always know I'm going

to start at the very beginning but with

you when I was reading through your

story it was quite clear to me that

the things that shaped you started at a

very very young age I'm talking when you

were two three and four years old so can

you take me right back to the very start

I'm guessing that's like sort of

1976-ish it is and you're right you know

things that happen to me when I was a

toddler really defined a lot of who I

became I grew up just outside Liverpool

and I was born in Western Hospital my

parents and I lived in a place called

Vine Hill and they divorced when I was I

think I was about three years old

and my life kind of quite quickly

changed you know as lots of young people

would be affected like that and yeah

that was where the story began I think

me developing this need to succeed

when you say your life changed give me a

color to what that means for you so I

was living quite comfortably with mum

and dad you know the kind of happy

archetypal family life and my mum and we

left me and my mum left and we went to

live with my grandparents and then we we

went to live

um in quite a different area we were

still only about 30 minutes away but it

was quite different we went into

um Council accommodation and

my um quite quickly my mum was in a new

relationship so there was this new guy

around and it was just kind of it just

you know looking back it was just very

different it's to the world I'd entered

into when I first turned upon this

planet

what was your um your family's sort of

economic situation throughout this

journey was it were you a working class

family or absolutely yeah I mean my

family still are you know very working

class you know through the generations

and my mum and dad were doing you know

they were doing good we had a lovely

semi-attached house in a in a nice

suburb of you know Liverpool and

obviously with my mum leaving dad as

today you know lots of couples find that

it is very difficult to to start again

um so we were yeah going into a

situation where it was hard for mum to

make ends meet so it was yeah it was it

was quite a tough area to be um to be

growned up in where was your dad

so dad was still in the house in the

house you'd been raised in for those

first few years and then after I think a

couple of years he went traveling and

um yeah and then he went to work abroad

actually so I've always seen a lot of my

dad but there were periods of times when

he was away so

um yeah so it was a bit of a shake-up

quite early because the formative years

aren't they when you're that little you

don't think about it because as a child

your life is your life but I think when

you start to think about who you are and

how you became that person you start to

you just kind of pinpoint maybe little

moments that put you on that track

so when you look back to that that

experience of your parents separating at

a very young age and then you're life

shifting and

um in hindsight what impact did that

have on you like when you look back and

connect those dots and go oh that that's

the reason for that

I think it kind of confused me I think

as a young person to have my location

change you know to be taken from the

family home and obviously all the time

so I didn't understand you know I didn't

understand adult relationships I didn't

understand why it was happening

so this little series of events and then

that you know I have a new I've got a

stepdad and then I had a new sibling and

then I had Step Brothers and so there

was just there was just quite a lot of

big things happening in my little world

and it made me just kind of confused to

like

where I belonged who I was how I fitted

in to that new Dynamic and you know as I

got older and my dad remarried and I

have this incredible family it's very

complicated and it's huge and I have

half siblings and step siblings and step

parents and and it's lovely but I think

for me being the only child of my mum

and dad sometimes made me feel a little

bit of a spare part

and I think that's what made me feel

like I had to make myself a place in the

world my own place in the world and I

think also it was about kind of earning

the love of these people I kind of felt

like I had to prove that I was worthy of

existence it sounds melodramatic but I

think as a as a young person you I mean

especially going through my teenage

years you question everything don't you

you know why I'm here and a lot of that

for me was like do I deserve to be here

and so I had to make myself worthy of

being here and you think that started

because of the your parents separation

and in this new context of these other

siblings that were felt maybe belonged

more than yeah I I think I think

especially when you know both my parents

remarried and they're both really

happily remarried and have gone on to

have more children

and I love my parents and I love my

stepparents and all of my siblings

but for me I sometimes feel quite alone

and I think that it is what propelled me

and some of the issues I went on to have

in later life you know for good and for

bad you know I think there's been real

benefits to those feelings and to make

me very determined

um very conscientious but also it's

going to be very hard on myself and a

little bit of a perfectionist

one of the things that I was quite

surprised to read was this almost

contradiction between you you really

looked up to your dad

you I think you wrote your book that you

almost worshiped him but then when he

left it was almost like there wasn't

there wasn't a reaction from you yeah

I know it's so strange to me

it's hard when you're that young isn't

it because your own memories are such

little tiny Snippets and you remember

and we all remember things but for my

dad you know I did I put him on a

pedestal and I still do you know he's my

hero and he always will be oh yeah he

ran away and he went away for his own

reasons and as an adult completely

understand that you know and he needed

to do that

but yeah I kind of shut down I think and

I think I kind of I have learned in my

life which has been really useful in my

career that I can have these incredibly

intense emotional feelings

but they have to be

buried

not help me

but helpful sometimes

in the short term yeah yeah but I think

if you if your knowledge you know you

have the knowledge that you do that I

think that can help

and just maybe not doing it or or trying

to

not do it

is that the first time you you kind of

recall that those early years where you

think you might have just buried a set

of emotions and not addressed them that

that blocking out of it just to keep on

keeping on yeah I think I I think some

of it is my personality but I think some

of it was circumstance

kind of I

I don't I don't want to cause people

problems I want to always make sure

everybody's okay

um and I think that's a lot to do with

worthiness

you know feeling unworthy potentially

um just just so I'm completely clear in

my own mind because I I don't want to

make any assumptions that feeling of

like not feeling worthiness came from

that dysfunctional family Dynamic that's

the first sort of hint you have of it I

I think so I think looking back you know

I grew up in the 70s and 80s and

for me in environment I was in I was at

time it was

it was about parents separated all of my

friendship group they had to me what I

saw as their happy family you know the

family unit and I longed for that and I

didn't have that and it made me

different and obviously you know if I

forwarded today and I think it's

probably rarer to have the family humid

you know life has changed so much so

that's how it affected me at the time it

made me feel like yeah an outsider and a

bit strange

you moved to um runcorn with your mother

which is um where the council estate is

where you lived

what that area isn't a good area back

then yeah you know I mean runcorn is

it's like a satellite town of Liverpool

and lots of people you know it's kind of

like over spill and lots of people were

out there in this this particular estate

that we we got housed in was it was

built and it was obviously there were so

many families I needed to be housed very

much like today

and it was this oh like a bizarre

architecture and we had these huge round

windows in these little houses about I

used to call them the Lego houses

because they were like blue and yellow

it was you know I suppose at the time it

seemed very forward thinking but I think

unfortunately you know it was it was one

of those environments of which there

were still many

um were you know problems can occur

because it's it's kind of set up there

are

you know there are just opportunities I

suppose for people to be quite discreet

and there was you know lots of people

there who were struggling and it was I

think it was knocked down I think they

started knocking it down in about 1980

because it just kind of got yeah

to run down I think when you um when you

look back on your father's decision to

leave is there any feelings of like

I don't know

animosity towards that decision to for

him to leave your life I understand the

separation but for him to then be absent

seems like it was from reading your book

The Catalyst moment for other things to

then happen has there ever been any

animosity towards when you reflected on

it as you grew up no really no that

really hasn't because I think you know

just that thing of being a kid and your

life is your life you know so it's just

that you get killed something like oh

okay then and I think when I became a

parent and I think about my daughter and

obviously I work away a lot you know

um but I just

yeah it's it's weird I don't think you

really fully I didn't you ever fully

understand your parents but I think you

get a much better understanding of them

when you become a parent you know but at

the end of the day I think as a child

you look up to these adults thinking you

know they know how everything should be

and how everything should be done and

then when you become an adult you're

like you know I'm 50 in a year and a

half and I still haven't got a clue so

and I still feel like a child you know

and my mum says I feel like a teenager

um can I get that now we're all just

trying to figure it out throughout our

lives you know I don't think we ever get

to that age where we go yeah I've got it

now

dancing

seemed to be your first love as I was

reading through your story where did

that show up where did Dancing come from

you know I think like so many young kids

you have this moment where you may go to

ballet or disco or whatever the local

you know is in the the local club or

whatever and I went on to ballet and tap

when I was so little I can't even

remember but it must have shook a chord

with me because when we moved to runcorn

it was there was no way one could afford

for me to do dance classes so I had this

period of time without it

we moved to witness when I was I think I

was eight years old and that's when I

picked up dancing again and I think I'd

really like bugged my mum for years I

want to go I think I didn't want to go

back I want to go back and I did Sports

at school you know I've always I'm just

very active I'm I think was probably one

of those kids who never sat still you

know I was always outside I was always

upside down or kicking a ball or

something and dancing for me it was just

a way of expressing myself and a freedom

and it was almost like a safe place

safe place like many performers and I'm

sure you've spoken to people who are

like this but that I'm quite shy in

certain aspects of my life maybe like in

a social aspect and you know being at

school like getting my head down I

wasn't very academic I did okay but when

I was dancing when I was doing something

creative and being able to express

myself I felt very confident and free

and alive so yeah dancing school was

where I really felt in my element so so

you became

a very obsessive

dancer practicer very meticulous yeah I

think

the ballet and the training of that

and it just really works for me and and

even now you know I have to have an

awareness of this that it's to have

those parameters and to have that

discipline makes me feel safe

I don't really know where that comes

from

but I am I'm very hard on myself and I

kind of I think I'm a little bit of a

workaholic because I feel like when I'm

in a workspace and I'm being very

disciplined that I'm safe

one might guess that um if parameters

and discipline and that structure makes

you feel safe then there might have been

a time where a lack of parameters made

you feel unsafe

or a lack of a foundation made you feel

unsafe absolutely I'm sure I'm sure I

think there was a lot of you know my

mum's a performer and you know it's it's

so it's so weird now because obviously I

find myself in in a similar position but

she'd be away an awful lot but there'd

be times when I'd be staying with other

people or you know having babysitters

and you know maybe there was a little

bit of instability felt there and that

would definitely make sense a bit of

instability is this are you talking to

talking about your nanny

yeah yeah there was a little

um

you know she felt was was a great person

for well but unfortunately you know the

girl she was maybe a little bit too

young to take on that responsibility and

had kind of moved me out of our home and

I've moved in with with her mum and uh

yeah it was all a little bit Shady but

yeah as soon as mum found out she put an

end to it but I think I was very quiet

about it because I was so little I think

I was only about five

so um I chose not to tell her probably

didn't want to rock the boat what were

you telling her

um that I wasn't at home and that I

wasn't being taken care of by the girl

she'd employed to take care of me

that feels like uh

a light way of saying something that is

a little less light in reality well you

know again I was so young it was I don't

think it was until I got older that I

thought that's

that was probably something that would

affect you in a big way but at the time

it was just my life you recite this

moment of just waiting for this per this

person that was meant to be taking care

of you

um just not showing up on many occasions

and you having to wait outside and

weighing your pants at one point because

you were waiting outside so long yeah I

remember getting back from school and we

had these new horrible damn concrete

steps up to their flat door and no one

was home and yeah just busting for the

toilet and yeah I wet myself and luckily

the neighbor came home and she took me

in and kind of cleaned me up and

yeah so that's I mean again I was so

young there's there's just these little

flushes of memories of those things I

think I think when you're when you're

young you maybe don't it's not that

those I think about my own life like

it's not that those things don't aren't

impacting you it's you don't you're not

really aware of the impact they're

having or the stories that they're

they're making you write about yourself

and about your situation

um and then obviously often times it

seems that we including myself then see

the consequences of it and in hindsight

have to sort of piece together where

that came from but that's I mean when I

when I read that

um in your book I was

I mean that's that's almost like

criminal negligence to treat a child in

such a way and I think about the your

the departure of your father your mum

then departing to go and pursue her

career and then you you're ultimately

ending up on these steps you know

urinating your underwear because

of this negligent uh nanny

and that's you know that that's where I

think oh that is you know that must have

been formative in to some to some degree

yeah I mean you know I'm a good believer

in therapy and I've been having it for

many years

um probably I only started to do that

because of

my time with the Spice Girls and how

much of a head [ __ ] that was but it's

really interesting because

you do look at your habits and the

things that you do and why you do them

and so much of it comes back to your

childhood

dancing was your first love

um you you become very disciplined at

that and eventually

off you go to

um study in London and that's where you

find singing yeah

which you hadn't had you been doing it

before you know because my mum was a

singer

and she had deals in the 70s she had a

couple of record deals with different

bands but you know it hadn't worked out

the way she would have liked it to

um you know she did great but didn't get

to those Heights that all of us

performed together

so I just knew growing up it's really

really hard working in the music

industry is really difficult

so you know my young brain goes okay I

want to be a pop star

but

it's really hard so I love dancing and I

love singing so theater because I loved

musical theater as well

I went to perform regards college and I

was pursuing that and I'd sung a little

bit but I just I never really had

confidence in my voice but there was

this like weird thing of

it just gave me so much joy

actually more joy than dancing

I was in college I was in my second year

and we had these competitions that would

happen every year and I was singing a

song and it was the first time I just

had a moment with an audience where they

I just really felt this energy this

transaction between myself and them and

it was when I was singing and it that

was it for me that was the moment it was

like it is singing that is it that is

what I have to do

So eventually you um un 400 other

young women

respond to a advert in a magazine what

was that advert okay so what I so the

stage newspaper was when you leave

perform regards College you're an actor

a dancer singer whatever you're going

for your auditions the stage is where

you find your auditions find myself an

audition I didn't want to be out handed

a flyer for a girl band

and I'm like that's it and that's what

I'm gonna do

you get handed a flyer a lot of people

are being handed that flyer

did you know then that you would you

said that's it that's what I want to do

did you know then that you wanted to be

in a girl band or did you mean that's it

I'm gonna apply and I think that's more

befitting of what I where I want to go

it's hard

no exactly

yeah of course but my telling of the

story is I mean I just had a really

strong feeling at that time that I was

gonna whatever this thing was I was

going to be a part of it and it was

going to be something incredible what

did that fly say

I think it said something like are you

18 to 24 I think it was like the wording

of it Street wise can dancing fun-loving

I don't know but it was yeah it was just

basically an audition an open audition

anyone come along we're putting a girl

band together okay music management and

yeah I went along to that audition

and how did that go it went well I was

recalled we had to dance and then we we

called to sing and then we were all sent

away and then we were we were called

back

but when we were called back I was ill

and I couldn't speak let alone sing so

um yeah I I missed my first opportunity

of being in this band

you missed your first opportunity yeah

so I was really sick I kept getting

tonsillitis and I yeah I was really

poorly when the recall happened and so I

begged my mum to call him and just say

good Melanie week like I bet he should

come and sing for you but they were like

no we've already chosen the girls it's

I'm afraid you know it's to know this

town and there was lots of auditions

that were now so it was like oh well it

wasn't meant to be but then a couple of

weeks after that I got called to say

somebody hasn't worked out we'd like to

see Melanie again

and then that was my chance to get in

the band

Christ

that is a pivotal phone call

you know I think I

actually because that still wasn't the

five that everybody got to know you know

there was I think there were three girls

from the the beginning of the band being

put together who didn't end up being

part of the final lineup of the Spice

Girls

it's funny that when you think back even

being handed that flyer you think

what path would I have walked

potentially

if that person that day hadn't given me

that flyer it's a really strange thought

isn't it I guess the sliding doors

moment isn't it but it's like yeah I

really because often in interviews

you'll be asked oh if you didn't do this

if you do and I'm like I have no clue

it's funny I think about it because I

there was an early early point of my

career where I got a phone call saying

um a day before saying the 16 year old

kid that was meant to be speaking at

this event had dropped out last minute

and could I get to London I had no money

I end up um bunking on the Mega Bus this

16 year old kid had just sold his

business for 30 million so they needed

like a young entrepreneur last minute

found me because I was on some website

3am asked me to come and that sent me

off in my career it was where I got my

investors from that one talk I think if

they hadn't asked me to be there how

would my life have been different

um and the weird thought which we never

consider is that

maybe I would have been happier

have you ever have you ever thought that

often often yeah you know I I wouldn't

change my life obviously I'm so proud of

the things that I've achieved and I have

an incredible life and I absolutely do

my passion you know that's my I've just

had a weekend of it you know three shows

over the weekend and I feel blessed but

with it has been some really tough times

and sometimes I do I do think wow

I think

did becoming famous ruin my life

did it ruin me

sometimes I question that

it's a hard one to answer isn't it

because you don't know the Alternatives

so you can't yeah but I think the thing

is it's like you know it's always so

important isn't it

we're on a journey

what's the destination the destination

is death

you know we've just got to enjoy this

journey and I remember the early days of

the Spice Girls were the best before we

released anything we had the most fun

because it was this excitement what's

going to happen you know what could it

be and then when it happened it was

incredible but there's a lot of brushes

that come along with it so everything

starts to change

in those early years then so before

you've released any music you stumbled

around trying to find management for a

while right

and then you recount stories in your

book about some like [ __ ] that's

made some just like awful comments to

you can you tell me about that that

comment I was his name chick oh chick

yeah so he was a financial backer so

when we we were first put together by a

management team and we were with them

maybe for about a year and chick was

um yeah the financial backer of these

original managers and he'd commented on

the size of my thighs and which was

something that really shook me because

you know I went to a performing arts

college which was predominantly a

dancing in college and you know the body

image was an issue there there was there

were girls with eating disorders I'd

been

you know I'd been witness to that in my

life but yeah it never affected me

personally

um you know and I'm a teenager put on a

little bit away moving away from home

not really eating as well going down the

pub and you know so my weight fluctuated

a little bit but it was never something

that really bothered me it was just yeah

I'll cut back a little bit lose a few

pounds but somebody actually commenting

on the way I looked when I was going

into a career where so much of it is

about how you look really affected me

did he make that comment in front of

people he made that comment in front of

the other girls

there's something about there's

something about

um when you're trying to fit in when

someone points at something which makes

you different or that might make you

feel like you don't fit in and from just

listening to your early years where

fitting in and feeling worthy was so

important to you for someone to then in

a group of people where you where you

belong those that that band to say this

is why you don't fit essentially with

that comment

I can't think of anything more more

hurtful for one's self-esteem especially

as a young person because you know think

I think like I was probably 19 at that

point

which at the time you feel like you are

grown up in that college going out into

the Big Wide World

you're a child you know you're still so

young and so vulnerable well Victoria

said to you that he had said comments to

her about her weight as well or her

appearance yeah I think you know it was

it was very much at that time I mean I

you know I went to dance college so

teachers would say you need to lose

weight you know what's that stomach

there I mean I've spoken to dancers

recently about the culture of that

because you know um recently there was a

lot there's been a lot talked about in

the gymnastics world oh yeah and

there was definitely a culture within

dance which was very cruel and heartless

and shaming body shaming

um which is changing but you know dance

teachers there are some really lovely

nurturing ones out there but some of the

best dance teachers are horrible you

know we I mean

carrot in the stick it's quite an

old-fashioned way but

it worked in some ways but it's very

damaging did it change your behavior

that that comment from him did you

notice a change in yourself at all after

that definitely that was the Catalyst

there was a catalyst for me to it was

like a wake-up call it was like

if I want to do this if I'm going to be

a pop star and you have to remember this

was like the 90s as well so it was you

know body image was a very different

thing there you know thank God there's

so much more body positivity now you

know but back then it was all about

being stick then

and I thought well if I'm gonna do this

I have to fit the mold and so then that

was it was just it was it was a gradual

thing but it was like the eating and the

exercising and that's when that's when

it began yeah from a comment like that

which he probably

didn't give a second thought to you know

isn't that crazy it's crazy

we never really appreciate that one

comment can have such a profound impact

and change someone's

um the trajectory of their health or

their well-being in such a significant

way just one comment yeah just a few

words yeah you know I think it's a bit

of a trigger isn't it you know so that

happened

and I think obviously I was feeling

vulnerable in

it knocks your confidence but then it's

kind of I think it's like a little chain

of events that leads you down that road

right you know

so that maybe was the little start of it

it ignited about the first Domino before

yeah yeah on that Journey trying to find

New Management you you stumbled across

Simon Cowell as well and he

he must hate when you recount this story

because oh it's so funny because he this

is the thing right everybody remembers

things differently because he remembers

he said yes to us but we said no to him

so basically we got to the point where

we were going to record companies we

were looking for a record deal so we

left the original management

and we had some demos demo tapes and we

were going around meeting managers

meeting record labels and most people

were very positive we got very positive

reactions but we remember Simon saying

he wasn't interested in us

um yeah but he recounts it differently

so that's funny isn't it because

obviously then it was the 90s he was a

record company exactly he wasn't known

to the to the wider public at this point

when you're going around trying to find

management how are you like providing

for yourselves how where's the money

coming from to sustain the band and was

there ever a moment where you thought

[ __ ] this I'm gonna no no no so when we

were with our original management they

they did give us like a little bit of

pocket money they put us up in a house I

think they gave us about 60 pounds a

week which because we weren't paying for

our accommodation at the time you know

we could make ends meet

um but when we left them I think I went

to stay with a friend back in sukup

where I've been to college so I was like

staying in her spare room and then there

was a period of time where Melanie and

Jerry were homeless they were doing a

little bit sofa surfing yeah and Emma

went home to her mum's place in Finchley

and Victoria was back at air mum's place

up

um in Hertfordshire so yeah we were and

it was think this I remember we go to

Emma's mum's place

and she'd do loads of toast for us and

wrapping tin foil and that would be

breakfast and yeah we were just we never

thought it was never an option to give

up we were on this journey and we were

going to make it happen

how long was that period when between

you leaving your initial management to

ultimately when you found Simon Fuller

and you know that kind of it began with

Virgin how long was that how big was

that Gap it wasn't as long as a year

okay with an Elio maybe about eight

months or so but we we had um somebody

who was you know very kindly looking

after us so what we've done before we

left our original management we talked

our original management into putting on

a showcase okay so we did that and then

we met some writers and producers and

Publishers and we made some contacts and

we kind of knew already we were going to

leave but we just thought let's get this

out of them and we did that and so we

pursued that and we were with Mark Fox

who was head of publishing at BMG at the

time and he kind of took us under his

wing and would take us out for dinners

and he'd got us to meet people and that

kind of got us on our road

success and then you met Simon Fuller

talk to me about that and how'd that

change things yeah it was really

interesting because we'd been it's so

funny isn't it we really did take

matters into our own hands and we talk

about auditioning managers you know we

were this unknown girl band everyone was

telling us governments don't work but we

were out there going right is this

manager good enough for us

um so we just we just had this attitude

that we've got something very special

and we're not going to undersell it or

ourselves and which is wonderful you

know even if any of us have any doubts

about it we were like no this is the way

it is and I think that real

determination single-mindedness is a

really important part of succeeding it's

like no there's no doubt this will not

fail so we went out there and met these

people and Mark Fox was introducing us

to songwriters we've met Martin Biff who

he wrote wannabe and Two Become One it'd

be forever and we also met absolute who

we wrote who do you think you are too

much with those guys

and they were managed by a guy called

Pete and he was in Simon's offices

and Simon heard the music and wanted to

meet us so he was the first person who

approached us

and eventually you sign with virgin

virgin virgin virgin records yeah we

gave everyone the run around and we got

the money up and up and up and up as you

could in those days and we just loved

virgin it was an incredible team and we

just had so much fun with them they

really shared our vision great a r

Ashley Newton you know obviously spice

was such a great album as his Spice

World

um so yeah it was like a match made in

heaven you you recount that moment that

Simon Fuller gave you your first

um 10K check I believe and this is

before you've released any music right

so this is like is this a signing bonus

so we got like um you get a advance when

you you know when you examsia not so

much these days it's changed so much but

yeah you get in advance and we hadn't

seen like what we would deem as properly

and that was proper money I've got all

those zeros what did you do with it

um I think you know what I did with my

first one no I don't you're not okay I

just think I did I do know you went

awesome

I mean I saw that check right yeah

I can I remember like being like on this

kind of stairwell in this party give me

a check ten thousand pounds

I went down to Oxford Street Jetty

Sports and I bought the Nike Air Max

that I've been like get I've had my eye

on for weeks I've made it and what did

you do with the rest Stephen the bank

what did I do with the rest I think I

paid for some driving lessons

um yeah I paid for my event and I mean

pretty much when you you get in advance

whether it's with the Rebecca company or

publishing it's your living expenses you

know and you're a young artist and

you've not released anything that's kind

of what it goes on how quickly did

things move from the point of getting

that check on that stairwell to

um wannabe the first single

taking off how how quickly was that

gosh are you you're really

testing my memory now I think

I want to say it was around Christmas

time when we when we got the check

and then wannabe was released in July of

96. so maybe about six months six months

it's not it's not very long time is it

it's not and it's from what I read the

wannabe didn't take a long time to

record either

is definitely under half an hour this is

we kind of disagree with it 15 minutes

was it 20 minutes I mean it was kind of

thrown together it was was it ever going

to be a song we weren't sure we were

just kind of being silly and Matt and

both who are incredible just obviously

made it into something which it went to

number one in 37 countries I mean I

don't think I even knew there was 37

countries

that's crazy yeah what what does that

feel like so you release that single

then you start getting the the murmurs

the noise the the world starts vibrating

a little bit what is that what is that

like

well we had big Ideas we probably had

big Ideas above our station before we

should have done but it helped us our

original manager were always like don't

get too big for your boots you know you

haven't done anything yet you need

you've got work to do we know we've got

work to do but we've got something

special and we are going to make this

happen

so we were always like we felt we were

very important and very special

and when other people started to think

that too wannabe was released it was

still early days but we released our

album in Japan because at the time there

was no internet so artists would release

music in different territories at

different times so you could kind of

catch up with yourself with your promo

you were able to do it I'd like to say

you had time to do it but hey there's

only seven days in a week our schedule

was insane

but we started in Japan and one of you

went to number one why we were in Japan

so we didn't really get a sense of what

was happening at home and I think when

we flew back to the UK we were in Japan

for about two weeks

when we when we flew back everything had

changed

and that was it when it was when people

really did start recognizing Us in the

Stream

yeah it all started to

yeah increase at that point and how did

that feel at first it was so exciting it

was kind of like it's almost like you

put in a like in a catapult you know

we've been we'd be doing all this about

doing all this way you know and then

you're gone and you're just on this act

oh and it really was

I I was trying to make sure I had the

dates right before because when I was

looking at the the amount of time from

that first single to the number one

albums and the meteoric global super

stardom it feels like this much time I

was like I'm sure I've got the dates

wrong there must be like a decade like

typo somewhere because it was just a

couple of years

it's not even a full two years right one

of these released in July 1997.

Jeremy left the band in the spring of 98

when we were two shows short of our

European leg of the tour

so it wasn't a full two years that the

five

were together doing the thing you know

it's that's mad I don't understand that

right we got together in 94 that's when

we all first met so together a couple of

years beforehand but yeah by 98 Springer

98 Jerry had gone we went on to do our

U.S leg of the tours of four piece we

come back Melanie and Victoria had their

babies so obviously everything started

to change by that point it was a very

different chapter in the lives of this

horoscope at that moment in my head the

Spice Girls

weren't like two decades

yeah maybe that's why maybe the music

lasted obviously but uh but when I was

reading that was like two years I was

like what how is that possible how is

two two um two albums

and a movie

and I will tell and yeah and all those

MTV music videos that were playing in my

house constantly because of my sister

um

but I had to listen to a cup the odd CD

when no one was in the house but

that's why podcast we can edit that out

um but but when you think about why you

were success because there were a lot of

other girl bands at that time and there

were even other girl bands that had a

similar fundamental messages of

empowerment and as you you call it girl

power I think you can't say that anymore

I think that's a bit of a people don't

like using me using the word girl but um

girl power and feminism and female

empowerment why in hindsight do you

think that you broke through

um and and these others who were there

before you and in some situations were

much better placed

why did you win

I think the stars were in alignment

whatever the magic was with that Dynamic

that we are so different that we are

quite strong in our individuality

that we made the decision to address how

we each felt comfortable you know girl

bands before us had coordinated their

look or had a certain look and we

realized that didn't work for us

we wanted to make pop music we loved pop

music we love so many genres but we felt

like there was a space for a female band

you know we kind of looked at bands like

take that and New Kids on the Block and

there was no girl bands doing that and

that's what we wanted to do and I just

think just all those little elements a

lot of them accidental you know are

nicknames which we never came up with it

wasn't a marketing idea it was top of

the pops magazine Peter Levine who was

edited there at the time just thought

it'd be really fun to give us some

nicknames and they stuck and they became

part of the brand you know and they

still live on to this day I mean in the

US we're known mainly by our nicknames

so

yeah like the stars like I say it feels

like they were just in alignment it was

meant to be we had this idea that

something was going to happen but I

think it was raining Stars

timing seems to be quite um important in

hindsight as well when you think about

where the world was was it ready for

this message was it ready for a band

like this

um because you know if you'd been maybe

10 years earlier maybe it wouldn't have

worked out or 10 years later

but there's it's funny the the case of

timing and then even when you think back

to being handed that flyer the timing of

that and it's quite

serendipitous and you know the butterfly

effect of just these

these things linking up and

can be quite spooky yeah it really is

you know you're right at the time it's

over the 90s it was a period of growth

in the UK you know it was quite a

positive time for the country we just

kind of come out of the grungies

musically

um Indy was big here and you know we

can't

you know say oh you know oh you're

welcome female empowerment yes we

brought that this was something that was

bubbling and moving and changing and we

were just really fortunate that we hit

it at a time when more and more people

were getting on it you know

um and I think because you know people

often talk about feminism with the Spice

Girls and it's like we feel like you

know we were young

we had a point to prove we wanted to be

a girl band for girls and we wanted to

talk about female empowerment and how

girls could do whatever they wanted to

do no one was telling us we couldn't do

something and it enabled us to take

feminism and make it more you know

palatable to a younger audience you know

we had fans of three years of age a pop

band or a music act had never had that

before you know and even now you know

it's amazing I do these shows and I go

out and I do solo stuff and I do a

couple of Spice Girl songs and there's

so many young kids in the audience

loving and real discovering the Spice

Girls and it's it's incredible it still

captures their imagination

that um that pressure though people

often talk about the pressure of being

in a band but the pressure of being in a

girl band at that time especially when

even you know the media were very

vicious and there wasn't an awareness

around the impact of words on mental

well-being and how that can impact

people

um strikes me as being an even more

difficult time than today of being in

well we have social media now which is

also an exacerbating Factor but talk to

me about the the pressure of public

scrutiny back then on young women

you're right you know the Tabloid media

were brutal I think things have improved

not that much I mean it is quite

shocking now when I look back over

articles from the 90s and naughties just

like the wording that was used I think

they're just a bit more sneaky with it

now you know they're still saying the

same things but in a slightly different

way but back then it was just brutal I

mean I got called we all got called

like terrible horrible things

and as a young person

I think for anyone and you're right you

know the generation now have social

media to deal with it which I think is

equally as damaging if not more so in

many ways because you can't escape it

can you you know your phone is there I

wake up first thing I do look at my

phone

um luckily now I have the skin of a

rhino so if anyone's saying anything

negative about me

um you know I can I can usually push out

but yeah back then it was I was trying

to figure out because I was you know who

am I these people are telling me I'm

this thing you know they're criticizing

me um I'm not talented enough I'm not

pretty enough I'm stupid I'm a loud

mouth and this and it's like who am I am

I who I want to be Am I who they tell me

I am should I be who they want me to be

and it's so confusing and that was I

think another you know we were talking

about these different elements that got

me because I became very very ill

um around 2000 and you know the the

eating and the exercising and from

chicks words and certain things that had

happened being photographed constantly

but being commented on constantly was a

big factor in that Journey

you didn't mean to change when I took

when I mentioned that

it looked like it genuinely I could I

could see how that that phase of your

life had impacted you just from the the

change in your

um

yeah it's

[Music]

I don't think anyone can ever you know

it's really hard you know because

I'm always in this place where

visit

I'm always in this place where

there's an element of guilt attached to

my success and I think that's

exacerbated by people going were you

famous

you know you put yourself in that

position

and something I explore in the book is

you know people who want to be famous

probably other people at least one quick

to do with it because you know we're

we're looking for accepting and love

an adoration and to be that vulnerable

and to put yourself in that position

only to be criticized is it's a bad

combination and I think you know with

the table of media as it was back then

I mean it's terrific I mean I've looked

again recently because you know that

there's been certain reasons why I've

been having to read old articles on

myself and I'm shocked

I am I mean I don't want to jump forward

too far with the story but I I did

suffer with

a couple of Eating Disorders one of them

being binge eating disorder I was very

depressed and I gained some weight

because I've been underweight for a long

long time

and my body was just like it was just a

reaction it was like I am starved of any

nourishments yeah but heal me feed me

and you know obviously the big change in

that make me gain weight and it wasn't

an enormous amount of weight I think I

went from the size probably about a size

I suppose it just sounds like a lot if

you sell like a size six to a size 14

but then a size 14 I don't think it's

even the average size of women in the UK

and they called me Sumo space

I mean how disgusting is that

so whoever this person is I'm not going

to say it's a guy maybe it was maybe it

wasn't the editor probably was but they

thought it was appropriate to call a

young woman who actually had been open

because she kind of thought she had to

be

about her issues and it was okay to call

her Sumo space

how sick is that it's really [ __ ] up

isn't it

I mean worst thing will happen to people

and you know where things happen in the

world but in this in my world at that

time when that happened it was

devastating

gosh it's disgusting isn't it they

couldn't do it now

they couldn't do that now but like I say

they it's all a little bit reading

between the lines now isn't it

you were so young then as well you were

you know you're in your teen years but

you're still a child at that age and as

you say learning who you are and what

you mean was there a moment where you

realized that so that first comment from

chick sends you changes your behavior

was there a moment where you look back

on and go

that was maybe this not the second

Catalyst moment but my behavior took a

really sharp turn there in terms of like

exercise and obsessing over food and

fitting in yeah I think it was it was

more when we were in the public eye

being a photograph doing lots of photo

shoots

um yeah you know some of it is linked to

a need of control isn't it because

things at that point felt very much out

of our control even though we you know

we wanted to take

this thing you know in our own hands and

we wanted to make it happen

um I think because when things with the

Spice Girls became Uber successful which

was very quick after the release of

wannabe were flying all over the world

you're in a bubble you know this crazy

bubble and it's great you're having an

amazing time but you can't you can't do

things on your own terms anymore

but you can control what you put in your

mouth or you can be in the gym where

people will leave you alone because I

don't don't bother if she's in the gym

you write about how you turn into a

robot

what do you mean by robot

Okay so

I think

I found it the only way I could survive

D the experience was by switching off my

feelings

um

I had to eat a certain way I had to

exercise a certain amount and I couldn't

not do it so I had to switch off any of

those like human emotions or any of

those just even listening to my own body

this there was a task that had to be

done and I had to complete it

and the robot and let's do it and that

was kind of my inner dialogue

and you recount this um this day of risk

reciting some reciting that well-being

on a running machine which I found very

almost quite unnerving and quite strange

looking in the mirror and telling

yourself that you're a robot yeah

yeah that actually happened you were

looking

I can

remember kind of in the middle of a Road

Travelers and yeah that was that was my

way of coping because like shut down

shut off just like just this body is

just a piece of Machinery that will do

what it has to do

and there was no there was no choice

that was the thing there was no choice

that was the way it had to be and it

wasn't until I had which by you know I I

imagine was a break in 2000 when I just

you know I hit that bottom and and

that's

when I kind of fell apart because the

robot wasn't working anymore

have you when you think back of that

young girl

have you got how do you feel about her

as an as an as an you know much more

mature person now how did you feel about

that young girl that was going through

that

family stops before

I feel like you know it was

the most incredible time of my life

and the hardest

and as much as I enjoyed it it was

jobless you know because I had a secret

and I was dealing with what I had to

deal with

I'm living my dream at the same time it

was it's a it's a head [ __ ] is what it

is because I wouldn't change anything

I changed that I changed that I became

the victim of an eating disorder in

exercising obsessively I wish that

hadn't happened to me so I could have

fully enjoyed the wonderful things that

happened to me 100

you know life isn't perfect there's

always issues there's always things we

have to overcome but it was

[ __ ] dramatic in

how it went down

what would you say to her if you could

speak to her I say sorry

I do I feel so sorry but I did that to

him

yeah I think I've been angry as well I

think I've ain't anger at other people

but I think as an adult you have to take

responsibility for your actions

um

you know I don't understand bitterly

Twisted but don't you know there were

people

oh you know

the Tabloid media I don't want a victim

learn about the tablet media but you

know they probably need to be bitched

and learned about because they've been

disgraced

um

but yeah I just I I feel sorry

I feel regretful

well what would you say sorry to her for

if I pointed through that I think her

through that for and it feels like

I kind of I have a lot of guilt attached

to

what I was representing but what was

really going on behind closed doors and

you know what I'm such an honest person

I can't I can't lie I'm so bad at lying

and I I feel so dishonest if I'm not

burying myself to people but I was

living life

and that's probably the hardest part of

it

that um

that secret the secret you're referring

to is the eating disorder and the

obsessive exercising right the secret

you were keeping when you say um eating

disorder are you referring to the binge

eating disorder that was did that come

after that was later yeah okay so

you know the weird thing is actually as

you as you put it like that it's like I

was in denial

you know because there is a little voice

that goes

you can't carry around like this but

then the other voice the bigger voice

goes you haven't got a choice

and the first season of disorder I I

started to

um just to eat less small potions and

then I started to eliminate food groups

um to a point because I was terrified of

that and then I was terrified of cops

and then I wouldn't eat a banana because

it's got too much sugar in it I mean I

do not even know how I survived and I

think often now I get so exhausted I

think it's probably through years of

being malnourished

um I lived on fruit and vegetables for

about two years

and I was underweight my period stopped

you know I kind of I've always wanted to

be a mum

but I had no choice but to live this

life I was living and I was jeopardizing

the chance of being a mum I mean how

crazy is that

just this compulsion

and then it all comes to a head in 2000

when um

you hate their bodies you know we oh I

hate this oh you should get asked in

interviews but you know what what's your

favorite what would you call them like

your favorite attribute or whatever you

know what what do you what do you like

least about yourself you know what

[Music]

[ __ ] questions why would you why

would you ever say never be negative in

an interview right right never pull

people towards your vulnerability I mean

I hate my my short stubby legs you know

what I mean just really focus on them

um

but yeah I I hated myself I was never

good enough nothing's good enough women

do this all the time we pull ourselves

apart you know I'm not funny enough I'm

not clever enough I'm not pretty and if

I'm not sexy enough all these things

this body is amazing and I spent all of

those years just hating it because it

wasn't what I wanted it to be but you

are not your body

you know I was talking to my family this

weekend I I lost an older sibling a few

years ago

and we were talking about when people

pass

and you know and suddenly he died of

cancer and we know in the last ages

people with cancer it's it's awful to

see them in that way but I don't

remember him in that way I remember the

essence of him I remember how funny he

was and how naughty he was and and it's

not I don't I don't remember anything

physical you know and it's just we just

need to get away from this physical

being

what defines us [ __ ] off it's not what

it defines us we're so much more than

that and um I've completely forgotten

what the question was but I just got

caught up no no so it's so powerful and

um it was linked to it all all of that

sort of suppression and a

self-abandonment coming to a head in

2020 2000 yeah yeah so exactly and I I'd

spent is like trying to make myself

smaller you know fit into the form that

I should be to be doing the thing that

I'm doing and it was killing me and I

know this is why I started talking about

my body because I'm so grateful to my

body

because it took over and it's and it

said to me we can't do this anymore

you're not doing this anymore we are

taking the control away from you and it

was hard because

from being very restrictive with my

eating and being anorexic I started

binge eating

because my body it couldn't help anymore

it wasn't getting enough fuel and I was

depressed I didn't know I was depressed

I had no I'd never even crossed my mind

that I had depression I just knew I'd

lost control over my eating and freaked

me out because it was all about the way

I looked you know it was it was vanity I

was like [ __ ] I'm eating I'm eating

loads and you know I feel very grateful

I was never bulimic I tried I couldn't

make myself sick and I'm so grateful for

that because I know it's a really

difficult illness to recover from

so I was getting bigger and bigger and

bigger because I was eating more and

more and more

um and then that was it was the vanity

that took me to the doctors as well as

being really [ __ ] scared because I

didn't know what was going on and I was

struggling to get out of bed and that

was when I was diagnosed with depression

and that was my first step on the road

to recovery you go to that doctor

who ultimately diagnoses you with

depression

can you remember that day vividly I do I

really do I remember sitting up to him

his desk

and I think I said everything out loud

for the first time but my eating about

crying and not being able to do that I

mean I didn't have the words I didn't

know what anxiety was I didn't know what

Depression was so what did you say to

him just because I want to get a color

of what the symptoms were that you

hadn't yourself pinpointed as well I was

I was tired all the time I couldn't

control my eating I mean I was I I

terrified myself because sometimes I'd

catch myself in mid-bench it was so it

was such a compulsive thing I'd like

yeah I'll just be in the middle of just

eating and I'd be like

you know and anyone and then suddenly I

know lots of people have these issues

it's like a cycle because you do it and

then you hate yourself

so you do it again and then you just it

just keeps uh you know getting worse and

worse and to the point where I had to go

to the doctor but I felt like I was

losing my mind I felt like I was

actually going mad and yeah and I didn't

have the right words and I know they are

not the right words that we use today

but those were the words I had

um yeah and he said

but first of all we have to

to do with your depression

I was like this weight was just lifted

from my shoulders because I was like oh

my God it's got a name it's something

that can be treated it's something you

can recover from and that was the

beginning of a very very long journey

very very long joke

I think I'm still on that Journey To be

honest I don't think

I think depression is always there it's

always waiting in the wings to looming

and well it is for me anyway

um but I'm quite good at just keeping

her Bay you learn the tricks and the

tools

for keeping it back

[Music]

you describe them I believe the

um the fear of that looming

um depression or you know I guess the

fear of going back to formal ways or

finding yourself in that situation has

has been quite a scary thing is it a

scary thing something you're you're

scared of

I don't want to Mis characterize your

words there but

um is it something that sits at the back

of your mind in terms of you know that

you fear there might be there it's like

a catalyst there could be one thing that

could yeah the thing I fear the most is

depression

because

you know I've I've always felt like

there's a fire in my belly and even you

know

mostly at my lowest of points

I can go this will pass

we can do this

but there are times within my depression

where I have doubted that

and

yeah

my biggest fear is it's that

you know really overwhelming depression

where you doubt if you can make it

through

Beyond it

you had you had those moments post

mainly where you didn't think you'd be

there was doubt whether you'd be able to

make it through a moment is this post

leaving the Spice Girls predominantly or

was their moments throughout the

experience where it's never we've never

officially split up is this bicycle oh

really yeah we took that decision

because

there was so much

press you know interest in us at the

time so you know I was really really

struggling we were working on forever

which is the third album as a full piece

without Jerry and I'd worked on my solo

records and I was having a really really

hard time and it was too much I found

the environment too much and I think the

girls knew me too well you know I was I

was dealing with these demons these

inner demons and they they could just

read me like a book and I just didn't

want to be in their company because I

had to do with it myself you know so I I

did want to leave the band

but we we took the decision to never

officially split up because we because

we didn't want the Press intrusion we

were terrified of because we know I mean

I slept at once on a TV show I did a

show with Frank Skinner and I used past

tense I said when I was a Spice Girl or

whatever the wording I used was

and the Press jumped on it and there was

camera Crews outside my house creating

and they chased me down the road and

yeah and it was just like

we couldn't none of us could face

and the you know the beauty of that is

now

we kind of feel like at the time we

needed separation you know we'd be in

like this our lives have been so

intertwined that we needed that space

but now we've had time to do that and

grow and become individual individuals

and mums and and have these Separate

Lives we can come back together and we

we really enjoy each other and respect

each other

so it'd be quite like that we've never

split up you know what I mean we've

always we'll always be faster when

people say formers but I'm not a former

Spice Girl I am a Spice Girl and we will

always always

even Victoria when she didn't go

downstairs to turn 19 she's still a very

very important part of that show

2019

you're you're you know

your account in your book about how

coming back together was actually a

really pleasant experience and it taught

you a lot about your previous time

together in the Spice Girls but let's

start with the point about Victoria then

a lot of lot was written about that

obviously when press do interviews

they're trying to twist your words and

find something wow how can we turn them

against each other like that's what

that's the game right

um so how did you all feel when you know

you knew that Victory wasn't coming back

to the group and you were going to be

doing it as a full yeah there was a few

feelings about that because obviously we

were gutted but you would be yeah

totally one of their and we were scared

because we'd go [ __ ] are people going to

want us it's a full piece

um you know in a different configuration

and the thing is you know

let's not you know well let's be honest

here Victoria is a huge International

icon you know she has gone on to be

something in her own right you know in

the Fashion World in the world of

celebrity she's much bigger than the

others of us individually

um I don't think anything's as big as

the Spice Girls you know we all feel

that but without her it's like people

gonna take us seriously

um so yeah so there was there was

different feelings around it the the

wonderful thing about it when she was

very supportive and it was really

important for us to make sure she was

happy so she was involved creatively you

know we wanted us to sign everything off

we wanted her to know exactly what we

were going to do

and it was such an incredible experience

I it felt like she was part of it anyway

why didn't you I didn't I missed the

story at that time but why didn't she

want to be what was her public statement

what was the reason public statement is

because of family and commitment okay

which is completely you know

understandable

um but I think you know on a more

personal level and I think this has been

said I don't think she'd mind me saying

when we did the Olympics in 2012 yeah

she had a really hard time it was she

was petrified I mean we were all bloody

petrified but to the point where it's

worth it yeah yeah yeah but I think it

was it so you know it was you had a lot

of anxiety and on that performance that

she was like you know what girls I'm

putting my dancing shoes up

um away so yeah so we totally got you

know we respected her decision

um but yeah but we were still sad about

it but you know what we went on to have

the most successful tour we've ever done

and you know with her blessing sadly

without her but we did it and it was

incredible and it really is truly some

of my happiest Spice Girls memories one

of the things that I wish I'd asked Liam

Payne when I spoke to him about One

Direction and The the group dynamic and

then what happens when the group

are no longer making music at the time I

don't want to say split up because that

is a bit loaded but when they're no

longer together is

um

what happens in the outside world in the

media is people then start comparing the

like the post band successes and I think

this can be very very toxic because

you're then being compared against in

the case of like One Direction these

four five other four other individuals

you'll then sort of measured your life

then becomes measured against who did

the best after it was measured during as

you talk about in magazines where they

said who is the hottest and who is this

yeah exactly um but then post you've got

you know as it relates to One Direction

you've got Harry Styles who is just you

know Untouchable

and I and I wonder like no matter how

how amazing the objective success is of

like another member are they they're

always compared to this person how true

is that in your case

um yeah it's true it's so hard it's so

hard to go on and become a solo artist

because you like this is what like

really drives me around about the media

right they tell you things you already

know

it's like you know interested in you

they just want the Spice Girls I know

um but no I mean that isn't totally true

but yeah yeah you're right it's really

really hard because you get compared so

much within the band and then post the

band but it's like you know you have you

have to have this logical brain don't

you where you go

how do we measure success you know for

me the hours of my life I am so happy

I'm so successful and there are all this

they need a bit of work but I think as a

fully grown adult you have to go stop

comparing yourself you know other people

might want to do it but you can't do it

we all do it we all look on Instagram

we've got our life's amazing [ __ ] no

one's life is amazing

you know there's a thing going on so I I

think yeah it's just we go off don't be

a little tangent sometimes but it's just

to just come back home and yeah

concentrate on the important things when

you when you went on the reunion tour

what did you learn about your former

experience from that tour

Ireland it was a shame that we couldn't

fully appreciate it at the time because

and you're never going to change history

and you're never going to change things

moving forward because

it's so chaotic I knew at the time that

you'll just be a little bit survival

mode you know you just kind of equates

going through the motions you know I

meet younger artists now like I've been

lucky enough to meet Billy Alice a few

times

I

relate to her so much I think I saw her

perform at Shepherd's Bush Empire and

she was already way too big to be

playing that incredible venue and all

these predominantly teenage girls were

screaming for her screaming at hair and

singing her songs and it just made me go

back to the Spice Girls shows I know

she's very different as an artist but I

just kind of felt this kinship with her

and so at times I just look at her and I

kind of feel like I I know what she's

feeling

and what she's going through so whenever

I have the opportunity to see her I just

kind of have this little connect with

him she was like

why does that make you emotional

because this incredible thing that

happens to you and it's so hard to

appreciate it because it's it's so

intense you know

because that experience was so

tumultuous for you because there were so

many difficulties as you approached the

reunion was their fear of you know the

former issues as well as the good times

but also the bad times coming with that

always whenever us girls get together

there's little triggers you know and I'm

scared but I have to face them because

you know I've learned to experience if

the other things I've gone on to do with

the girls we reunited in 2007 Olympics

2019

face the fear and actually beautiful

things happen so yeah and you know we're

much more mindful of each other now as

well because you know everyone had their

[ __ ] to deal with you know it wasn't

pain selling for anyone

was that too much of the reason you were

inspired to write your book

yeah it totally was I mean you know

sometimes I still question it I'm still

questioning it as this week