Immortality is tantalizing close

>> and you think it's possible within the

laws of physics and biology.

>> Yeah. In fact, we know that there's a

clock in our body called the tie that

tracks how long we're going to live and

there's something called talomeorase

which stops the clock which means that

we can live forever. That's the good

news. But the bad news was we found out

that cancer also uses tie and

talomeorase to live forever. And so the

question is can we apply that to humans

without wakening up the cancers? But

this is not science fiction. This is the

future.

>> And for 71 years, you've been studying

physics and how science will shape human

destiny. So how is life likely to be

different in the future?

>> Well, decade by decade, we see the

enormous progress that we humans have

made. For example, we'll probably be on

the moon, maybe Mars, and also the

artificial intelligence will help us to

cure cancer and many diseases. However,

for the first time in human history, we

have the potential of destroying

ourselves with designer germs, nuclear

weapons, perhaps artificial

intelligence. Like this is a quantum

computer. This is so powerful that even

the CIA is worried about the fact that

these could break into any known

computer,

>> including banks, even Bitcoin.

>> That's right. So, capitalism would

vanish. Society would come to a halt.

>> And what about humanoid robots? I would

look seriously at the possibility of

merging with them so that we don't have

a civil war. Realize that we're at the

edge of a knife. You tilt it the wrong

way and there's worlds war. You tilt it

the other way and there's food and

luxury for everyone. And it's up to us

to decide which way the knife will go.

Dr. Moaku, I've waited a long time to

ask someone these questions. Where do

you believe we came from? Do you think

it's plausible that in fact we are

living in a simulation? And then is

there any evidence when we look out at

the stars that there is non-human life

out there?

>> Okay, so first of all,

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Let's get on with the show.

Dr. Moaku,

>> that's right.

>> For anyone that isn't aware of you and

your work and they're wondering whether

they should listen to what you have to

say today because they don't know your

work and they've not gone through the

the books and the interviews that you've

done, how would you describe your

experience? I work in something called

string theory which we think is the

theory that eluded Einstein for the last

30 years of his life. The theory of

everything. The theory that explains the

big bang, the formation of stars,

galaxy, formation of the earth, life.

I'm a physicist working in the theory of

everything.

>> What is the theory of everything?

>> An equation perhaps no more than one

inch long that will allow us to quote

read the mind of God. These are

Einstein's words. the theory of the big

bang, the theory of creation itself, the

theory of of everything.

>> I want to explain this in terms that

even the most sort of novice viewer

could understand. The theory of

everything is is an equation that

explains

>> everything.

>> Physics.

>> No, no, no. Everything. Because from

physics comes chemistry, comes

chemistry, comes biology,

>> and from that comes our universe.

>> Is it things like gravity and space and

time? gravity, uh, light, the nuclear

force. Uh, there are four fundamental

forces of the universe. There's the

gravitational force which keeps us here,

the electromagnetic force which lights

up our our world, and the two nuclear

forces. We want a theory that explains

all four.

>> You know, when people watch your

interviews and they read your books,

what do you think is the fundamental

question that they're typically seeking

to answer?

What does it mean for me?

>> What does what mean for me?

>> The physics of the future. That is we

physicists create the future. We're the

ones who understand what is possible,

what is not possible, and what is

plausible. How does that affect the

average person?

>> And there's an element of of all of us

that's just trying to figure out how we

got here, where our place is in the

universe.

>> Yeah. If especially for people who are

philosophical or religious, they want to

know what does it all mean? I mean,

where did I come from? Where's the

universe going? They want to know the

answer to the big questions, the

question of meaning. And that's what we

physicists do.

>> And they want to know if we're alone in

the universe.

>> Oh yeah, that too. That's a byproduct of

what we do is look for extraterrestrial

intelligence.

>> You've been doing this for many, many

decades now. You've been studying the

nature of the universe and physics. Is

there a fundamental misunderstanding

that you're aware of that the average

person still believes? Yeah, people

think that physics is for eggheheads,

that it's just uh doing equations on a

blackboard and totally divorced from the

average person. They don't realize that

everything about their life, about

electricity, about magnetism, about the

nuclear force, about industry,

everything comes from physics. But the

average person thinks that physics is

for eggheheads. It's for equations you

put on a blackboard in a cartoon. Nope.

is everywhere.

>> In the last couple of weeks, you've been

asked to do lots of interviews because

Trump has released the UFO files.

>> That's right.

>> Before we get into lots of other

subjects and physics generally, probably

start by just tackling this question

head on. Do you think that we are alone

in the universe? No, we are not alone

because a galaxy has 100 billion stars

of which maybe 10% have planets that are

earthlike or are similar to Earth. But

the question is, can they visit us? A

Saturn 5 rocket would take 70,000 years

just to reach the nearest star. Hop,

skip, and a jump. 70,000 years. So a

civilization that could reach the earth

would be hundreds thousands of years

more advanced than us. So I'm a

physicist. We look at that space warps.

Is it possible that a flying saucer race

could create a space warp so they can

visit us?

>> Space warp.

>> Bending space.

>> Is that possible?

>> Well, gravity bends space all the time.

The question is, can you bend space

enough so that you can go faster than

the speed of light so you can visit the

nearest star? That's a question mark. We

physicists look at that, but we have no

definite answer. But it's it's possible.

So when these people say that, you know,

I had a podcast uh recently where two

people explained to me that there's been

some very unusual sightings of UAPs.

>> Mhm.

>> And they use this as evidence to say

that aliens exist.

>> Mhm.

Do you think those sightings are

actually extraterrestrial life or do you

think it's just uh people hallucinating

and seeing I don't know light orbs and

misunderstanding what they're looking

at?

>> Well, there are three types of

observations. Close encounters of the

first kind is when you see something in

the sky. First kind.

>> Close encounters of the second kind is

when you have something tangible, an

engine, uh a body, a wreckage of a UAP.

That's second kind. Close encounters of

the third kind is when you actually

encounter them and shake their hand.

Now, where are we? We're at close

encounters of the first kind where we

see things floating in the sky, but we

don't know what they are. We don't have

anything tangible. Now, in science

fiction, we've captured the flying

saucer. We have the aliens in a case or

so. That's the movies. We have yet to

see an alien in in a laboratory. We have

yet to see an alien ship. In other

words, people say, "I saw something."

Now, what does that mean? I'm a

physicist. We go where the we go where

the observation goes. And we have no

observations to verify what you saw.

Except, of course, sensationalists who

say, "I've seen the bodies." Okay, show

us.

>> So, from that, I conclude that you don't

believe alien life has arrived here on

Earth. I don't I I I'm open to the

possibility. 95% of the sightings we can

we can uh explain using the known laws

of physics. 5% are either optical

illusions or they are evidence of

visitation. You can't rule it out. So,

I'm open to the idea that maybe they're

here. Now, President Trump has released

the first mountain load of 160 uh

encounters of alien technology, we

think, but we haven't yet seen a close

encounter of the second kind. When that

happens, that's a game changer. When we

have a piece of UFO hardware, that would

that would nail it to the wall right

there. There's the a narrative that the

US government or generally governments

around the world wouldn't want the

people to know about aliens because

they're not ready for it. Do do you buy

that?

>> That's the traditional uh excuse for not

revealing these things. But the other

excuse is that it's a cover. It's a

cover for the stealth bomber. It's a

cover for the fact that the military

does experiment with aerodynamically

novel forms of transport. And so those

are the reasons why the military keeps

it a secret and actually lies about

these things. But now the it's leaking

out. Congress, the president of the

United States, they're demanding these

these u sightings to be declassified. So

we physicists now are analyzing them to

see whether or not they're really real

or not. Is there any evidence when we

look out at the stars that there is

nonhuman life out there? Is there

anything that you've seen when you look

at other planets and how they're

operating that might suggest there's a

different type of life there?

>> Oh, yeah. But there's no tangible

evidence for it yet, though.

>> Give me one example.

>> Well, uh, for example, take a look at

Alpha Centauri, the closest star system

to the planet Earth, right?

>> How far away is that?

>> Four and a half light years. And if you

take a look at the Alpha Centauri

system, the closest system to the Earth,

you have uh red red stars that could

could have life on them. We're not sure.

They're not super hot, super large, in

which case it would be very difficult to

get life forms off the ground. But the

point I'm raising is that the Milky Way

galaxy, our backyard, has 100 billion

stars. And the probability of life

existing among those stars is almost

100%. The question is can they reach us?

That means is it possible to create a

space warp such that you can break the

light barrier so that you can travel

across the galaxy and visit the earth.

>> And did you say that was theoretically

possible?

>> It's theoretically possible. Yeah. But

of course you need energy, fantastic

amounts of energy. But the laws of

physics do allow for the possibility of

space warps. I mean, you've seen space

warps on Star Trek, but where does Star

Trek get the word space warps? It comes

from physics.

>> I also heard you telling um I think it

was Joe Rogan, you were telling a story

of one particular

star that reduces in its intensity by

20%.

>> Yeah, there is a star that that

oscillates.

>> What does that mean?

>> So, it drops by about 20%. So it's it's

it's reducing its light

>> output

>> by 20%.

>> That's right.

>> How often?

>> You don't have to wait for centuries.

It's within a matter of months to years.

>> A star that reduces frequently reduces

its light output by 20%.

>> Yeah. Which is very unusual. It's the

only one we saw we've seen so far.

>> You explained one of the theories, I

think, when you first talked about this

was that a civilization might have built

something around that star.

>> Oh, yeah. That's one of several theories

that a civilization that advanced would

have tremendous energy needs.

>> Mhm.

>> And the easiest way to get energy is by

encircling the mother star with an

envelope. And the envelope then would

absorb most of the energy. In fact, that

was an episode of Star Trek. They meet a

star that is totally enveloped by a

metal shell. The aliens left it

centuries ago, but you know, it can't be

ruled out. The theory goes that an

advanced civilization will surround it

with like a metal sphere to capture its

energy.

>> Yeah.

>> And that would explain why we see a 20%

reduction in the light output.

>> No, they think that it's probably an

orbiting an orbiting globe that eclipses

the mother star.

>> Ah,

>> rather than envelops the mother star, it

simply goes around the mother star and

eclipses it. Um, so it'd be like a big

ball that that circles the star

extracting

>> and that would cause a dip. It would

cause a dip in the intensity of light.

>> As far as we see it,

>> as far as we see it, right?

>> Because this big ball is sometimes

moving in front of it.

>> That's right. Exactly.

>> Why couldn't it just be a planet?

>> Planets are not that big. Planets are

about about 1% like Jupiter is about 1%

the size of the sun. So the sunlight

would drop by about 1 or 2% if Jupiter

goes in front of our sun.

>> Oh, I've got you. So this is much

bigger. It's huge.

>> You've um

you've written a lot of books

>> about the universe and physics and

everything in between. I've waited a

long time to ask someone this question

and it's a very broad question and the

question is where do you believe that we

came from?

Where do you believe that life came

from? Where do you believe this universe

came from?

>> Well, the universe came from the big

bang. The question is where did the big

bang come from? Right.

>> Okay. So, what is the big bang?

>> The big bang is a cosmic explosion that

took place around 14 or so billion years

ago that uh created the expanding

universe.

>> How do we know that happened?

>> Because we have evidence of this

expansion that took place, you know, 14

or so billion years ago. We see the

stars moving away from us. So, think of

a big balloon. the big balloon with uh

points of light on the balloon and the

balloon is expanding and the stars are

moving away from each other.

>> That's what we see today. Not moving

toward each other. All the stars are

moving away from each other like the

sphere is expanding. And so we believe

in the in the uh the big bang theory and

we believe that the universe is

expanding rather than contracting.

>> Expanding into what?

>> Hyperspace.

>> What's that? Uh well we live in a

four-dimensional universe. Three

dimensions of space, one dimension of

time. We live in a in a four-dimensional

universe. But in string theory, we

believe that there are 11 dimensions

altogether.

>> String theory is something that you came

up with.

>> I came up with string field theory,

which is one of the branches of string

theory. Right.

>> And what is string theory?

>> String theory

says that what is a proton? What is an

electron? They're nothing but vibrations

of a string.

So from a distance, this looks like a

point particle. From a distance, this is

an electron. But if you could magnify

that, we find out it's not really a

point at all. It's really a vibrating

string. And each vibration corresponds

to a node. So this would be a proton.

This would be an electron. This would be

a neutron. This would be a neutrino.

That's why we have so many subatomic

particles.

>> Okay. So to to simplify this in a way

that I understand, you're saying that at

the very base layer, particles are the

same, but they're just strings that are

basically vibrating differently.

>> That's right.

>> And that would be the the sort of

foundational matter of everything.

>> That's right. Everything is basically a

vibrating string. So when the string

vibrates in this direction, we call it

an electron. If it vibrates in this way,

we call it a proton. So, why do we have

so many subatomic particles? How many of

them are there? Hundreds. We've seen

hundreds of subatomic particles. And how

could mother nature be so malicious to

create a universe at the fundamental

level based on hundreds of different

kinds of of strings vibrating in

different directions? Well, it's really

just one string. One string that can

vibrate in different modes. Each mode is

called a particle.

>> Why does it need to be a string?

We don't know why things are. We just

I'm a physicist. We just try to figure

out the way things really are. But it

would explain why there's so many

particles.

We used to think there was an electron,

a proton, and neutron. And that's it.

That's it. Period. Nope. We've seen

pimezones. We've seen lambda particles,

omega particles, hundreds of subatomic

particles. Why do we build atom smashers

outside Chicago, outside Geneva? huge

gigantic atom smashers smashing atoms

apart. Why? Because then from the debris

we begin to figure out these vibrations

are particles.

We can categorize them. We can give them

names and that gives us a quote a theory

of everything.

So we have what is called the standard

model which explains all the subatomic

particles other than gravity. And it and

we create these particles with their

atom smashers

>> which is the big machines where they

fire atoms at each other in in Geneva

and so on around the world to figure out

>> that's the large hon collider right but

now we realize that there's another

octave there's another layer even beyond

what we see with the large hron collider

dark matter

dark matter is invisible matter that

surrounds the Milky Way galaxy and we

don't know what it is there's a Nobel

Prize waiting for somebody who could

figure about what dark matter is. It's

invisible matter. Invisible matter that

surrounds the entire Milky Way galaxy.

We think that we cannot yet prove that

it's nothing but the next octave.

>> What do you mean by octave?

>> Vibration. In other words, this would be

the lowest vibration which is

corresponds to an electron. But their

other vibration is much bigger and they

they would correspond to a higher

octave.

>> How do we know it's there if it's

invisible?

>> Well, this a guess. But it turns out

that when you do the math and you look

at the vibration of a string and you

look at the higher vibrations, some of

them are invisible. In other words, they

don't interact with light. Now, we know

that this interacts with light.

Therefore, we can see it.

>> But these are the lowest vibrations.

Some of the higher vibrations are

invisible. And so, we think that's what

dark matter is.

>> I guess this all comes back to the

question we're talking about the big

bang.

You know scientists tend to agree that

there was some kind of big bang because

when you look at the universe it's

expanding outwards. So one would if you

rewind time at some point there was a

central

point where something where a big an

explosion occurred if you reverse time.

I mean it begs the question

what caused the big bang.

>> Well we don't know but there are

theories. String theory is a theory even

before the big bang. It's a theory of

everything. The big bang in some sense

is a misnomer because it disguise the

fact that we're ignorant. We're ignorant

of what caused the thing to bang. String

theory, there was no bang. That is it

did collapse. If you go backwards in

time, it did collapse with a very small

thing and then came out again. It

bounced. Oh,

>> okay.

>> So, we think that there could be a

bubble bath of universes. What do you

mean by a bubble bath of universes?

>> Our universe is a bubble of some sort

and the bubble is expanding and that's

called the big bang theory which fits

all the data. But we think there are

other bubbles out there. In other words,

string theory says that we live not just

in a four-dimensional world but in a

11dimensional world. These other

dimensions we cannot see but we think

that the universe coexists with other

universes. There's a bubble bath. Think

of bubbles, soap bubbles floating in in

the vacuum.

>> What about marbles? So, when you're

talking about bubbles, you know,

could you mean like kind of like this?

>> Right. Okay. Give me the big one.

>> All of them.

>> All right. Okay. So, let's say this is

the sun.

>> Yeah.

>> And these are planets, asteroids,

whatever. And they're going around

they're going around the sun.

>> Mhm. Why? Why are they going around the

sun like that? Okay, it's because this

exerts gravitational force that is

pulling these things toward toward the

sun.

>> The Earth is just one. Asteroids are

none of the other. Saturn and Jupiter,

they're nothing but planets going around

the mother star. And so then the next

question is why? Why is it that planets

are going around the sun? It's because

the sun is warping the space around it.

Is creating a shallow depression.

Space is not flat. This is Einstein's

achievement. You go in this direction,

seems flat. You go in this direction,

everything seems to be flat, right? But

no, the earth for example is round, but

it looks flat, but it's not. The

universe looks flat, but it's not. It's

curved. And that's why planets go around

the mother star because gravity is the

byproduct of the warping of space. And

that's why we are sitting on this chair

right now. Why are we here? How come

we're not flying in outer space? The

earth is spinning, right?

>> The earth is spinning. We should be

flung out into outer space. So how come

we're here?

>> Gravity.

>> Gra. What is gravity, though? That's

just a word, right? Right? Just because

the mass of the earth is so much greater

than us that it pulls us in.

>> Okay. Well, why is it pulling us in?

Einstein says that the reason why the

earth is pulling us in is because the

earth warps the space around us and is

pushing us into the floor. That's why

the solar system works the way it does

because the sun grabs the planets and

forces the planets to move in a curved

line because it's curved space that is

causing it to move this way.

>> And going back to what you were saying

about the bubble bath idea,

>> right? Then the question is, are there

other stars? Yes. Are there other

galaxies? There billions and billions of

planets out there. We think that the

whole shebang is curved. We're nothing

but inhabitants of the skin of this

gigantic bubble. Now we're saying that

maybe there are other bubbles out there.

A multiverse. A multiverse of universes,

parallel universes. In fact, word

multiverse has gotten into the

literature. Comic books now refer to the

multiverse, Spider-Man and things like

that. So it's even part of the

vernacular the the common language of

the average person that we believe in

parallel universes. So yeah these

parallel universes come from physics

>> and the other thing that comes from

physics is black holes.

>> That's right. If this star becomes so

massive that its gravity is so great

that it pulls the entire shebang in

like this. Mhm.

>> And then that would be a black hole.

And we now believe that at the center of

almost every galaxy we see, and there

are trillions of galaxies, we think that

at the center of these galaxies, there's

a black hole.

>> Even our galaxy, the milk,

>> even our galaxy, right? If you look at

the direction of Sagittarius, the

constellation Sagittarius, there's a

black hole there. So tonight, go

outside, look for the constellation

Sagittarius, and there's a black hole at

the center of our own backyard that

holds the Milky Way galaxy together.

>> So, how did it get there?

>> Well, we think that it's a remnant of

the Big Bang that when the Big Bang

exploded,

clusters of matter begin to contract

other clusters of matter.

>> And this is where the galaxies and the

planets come from. The condensation of

the matter ejected out of the big bang

gives you the galaxies, the solar

systems and the planets.

>> So if I use this as an example, there

was the big bang and all the pieces flew

everywhere

>> and then because of gravity the pieces

came together and they got so

so uh so big so much mass that they

collapsed inwards. We're not sure about

exactly which came first, the galaxy

came first or the black hole came first.

But let's assume for the moment that the

black hole came first. Gas concentrated

into a small area called the black hole

and then it drew all the other stars and

galaxy around it to create the Milky Way

galaxy. We're not sure, but that's one

possibility of where it came from. And

where did that come from? That in turn

came from the explosion that created the

universe roughly 14 billion years ago.

>> Am I right in thinking black holes they

are extremely dense like areas of matter

and they if you were to go near one

everything that goes near it gets sucked

in.

>> That's right. And you never get out

again. If this is a a black hole, there

is a ring or a sphere surrounding it. A

point of no return. You go towards the

black hole and you pass this this ring

and then you go into the black hole

never to be seen again. It's a point of

no return.

>> How do we know that?

>> Well, we've never seen it happen, but we

can calculate the escape velocity. In

other words, if you want to leave the

Earth, how fast do you have to move to

leave the Earth? 7 miles per second. Our

astronauts travel 7 miles per second to

reach the moon. Okay, that's called

escape velocity. So every gravitating

piece of matter has an escape velocity

for the Earth is 7 miles per second.

What about the escape velocity of a

black hole? It's the speed of light.

That's why if you fall through the event

horizon of a black hole, you never come

out because otherwise you would have to

go faster than the speed of light, which

is not possible. So you go in, but you

never come out. That's why it's called

black holes.

>> What's in there?

If you knew, you'd win a Nobel Prize.

>> This area has loads and loads of mass

inside it. It's sucking things into it.

So, one would assume that there was a

lot inside there, but it's tiny, right?

Black holes are tiny.

>> We don't know how big they are. We think

at the very center it could be very

small. We're not sure. No one's ever

been there because if you go past the

event horizon, you never come out again.

>> What do people think is inside a black

hole? I'm thinking of it's just this

area in space that looks black on a when

you look at it and think it can suck in

planets,

anything.

>> If I were to take a guess, I would say

that it's an entrance. It's a gateway

perhaps to another universe.

We think for example if I have a warp

space and you fall into warp space if if

the warp space is powerful enough it may

come out again on the other side. So

there may be another universe on the

other side of a black hole. We're not

we're not sure. Of course, if you want

to go to Alpha Centauri with a Saturn 5

rocket, it would take 70,000 years to

reach the nearest star with our most

powerful rocket. Very impractical. You

need a shortcut and that's uh that's the

gateway called a wormhole which is very

similar to a black hole. A little bit

different but very similar.

>> How long have you been studying physics

in the universe now?

Since I was 8 years old, I've been

studying the universe.

>> 71 years.

>> Yeah. When I was 8 years old, a great

scientist had just died. It was in all

the newspapers and the newspaper said

that he failed on his last try to create

a theory of everything. So, I was

fascinated by this idea that this man

was attempting to find the final theory.

You're talking about Einstein.

>> That's right. Later, I found out the

man's name was Albert Einstein. And at

that point, I said to myself, that's for

me. That's what I want to work on. I

want to be part of this great journey to

complete Einstein's dream of a theory of

everything. And that's what I do for a

living. I work with Einstein's

equations.

>> So, for 71 years, you've been trying to

understand the universe and create this

theory for everything. In that time, how

is your perspective on

God

developed?

>> Yes. Most of my family were Buddhists.

>> Mhm.

>> Coming from Japan,

but my father was a Christian

>> and put me in Sunday school. So, I had

the benefit of two religions as a child.

Now, I'm a physicist.

And physicists are quote agnostic. They

don't take a position. They simply go

where the physics takes them into areas

that are distasteful, mysterious,

whatever. You go where the evidence

goes. And that's what I am today. In

other words, we have the laws of

physics. We have string theory which

takes us to the instant of the big bang

and even before even before the creation

of the universe. But then the next

question is where does string theory

come from? Okay, at that point we have

to say that that's where our ignorance

takes over. We simply don't know.

>> What about simulation theory?

>> Do you think it's plausible that in fact

we are living in a simulation?

>> I would say the answer is probably no.

>> Probably no.

>> That's right. Simulation theory is

basically

saying that the universe is a puppet

show and there's a script. We're we're

living out the script because somebody

is pulling our strings. First of all,

that violates quantum theory. Quantum

theory believes in probabilities.

Probabilities that I'm sitting here

today, probabilities that maybe one day

I'll go into outer space. We can

calculate the probabilities of atomic

events, chemical events with accuracy

that is incredible.

But simulation theory is not one of

them. The theory which was um proposed

by philosopher Nick Bostonramm says that

there's three possibilities logically.

Either number one that um humanlike

civilizations always destroy themselves

before they get to the point where they

can do advanced hyperrealistic

simulations. And if you think about

things like I know virtual reality at

the moment or video games and you

imagine them on a spectrum, if they just

get 1% better a year, at some point they

are indistinguishable from this reality

that we're experiencing now. So theory

one, we wipe ourselves out before we get

to the point where we're advanced enough

in hyperrealistic simulations. Theory

number two, or possibility number two,

is that advanced civilizations do exist,

but they have zero interest in

simulating their ancestors, which would

be us. Or theory number three is that we

are a simulation and civilizations do

survive and they do run millions of

simulations because there would be

millions of fake universes and only one

can be base reality in this scenario and

the mathematical odds are incredibly

high that we are currently living inside

one of those simulations and not in base

reality. Well, my personal point of view

is there there's option four that you

don't mention and option four is that

there is no simulation at all that all

this talk is nothing but fairy tales.

Fairy tales that we tell our children to

amaze them about the universe. But you

see the universe is based on

probabilities. Probabilities that

uranium will fire for example which

gives us nuclear weapons. probability

that hydrogen can fuse and that gives us

stars. So the universe is based on

probabilities not on simulations.

Do you think what we're seeing? This is

a strange question to ask because again

there's so many def definitions within

it but do you think what we're seeing is

real? Like do you think this is you know

cuz people do psychedelic drugs and I

hear about things like DMT. You inhale a

little bit of smoke and suddenly

everything you see is different. And you

meet people talk about how they've met

other types of life when they've taken

an an inhale of DMT, they've interacted

with some type of other life form. So I

guess all this is to say that if our

perceived reality is that fragile where

we inhale one of smoke and suddenly

we're amongst a different life form,

then it makes us question whether this

is real at all.

And also like just to extend it a little

bit further. If one inhalation of smoke

and I guess you could think about that

as a bunch of small particles can

interrupt something in my brain that

causes me to believe that I'm in a

different universe. Then doesn't that

prove that my reality is just the

projection of a very fragile small

amount of particles that are right now

lined up so that I see you and this.

Well, I think the answer to that is that

what you consider to be reality

is really a partial fiction

that your senses are limited by what

your senses can retrieve from the

outside world. But it's only a teeny

weeny little fraction of what actually

exists. Look at the electromagnetic

spectrum of light for example. You can't

see all the ultraviolet radiation, the

infrared, x-rays. This room is full of

realities that you can't see. Most of

what you see is a fragment, a teeny

insyweensy little fragment of reality.

You can't see cosmic rays. You can't see

ultraviolet radiation. So, what I'm

trying to tell you is that you live in

an illusion. It's a good illusion for

survival. But in terms of being able to

see the full spectrum of reality as it

exists, no. There's no way. So you think

reality is everything. Nope. It's only a

tiny tiny insyweensy little fragment of

reality. And then talking about this

reality, that's a fantasy on top of a

fantasy. The first fantasy is that you

think that what you see is real and

everything. That's the first fantasy.

The second fantasy is there's a fantasy

within the first fantasy. So you're

you're going layer upon layer of

fantasies. Now, let me give you another

example. Let's say you hear rustling in

the forest. You think it's a tiger

there. Nine times out of 10, there's no

tiger there. But how come your senses

are constantly alerting you to the

tiger? And that is evolution.

Evolution gives you the ability to see

things that are not really there at all

because it's good for survival. One time

there is a tiger and it saves your butt.

In other words, why are we here today?

We're here today because our senses are

overactive. Our senses think there's a

lion. There's a tiger there. Well,

there's no lion or tiger there at all.

But it was good for our survival. Okay?

So, our senses are only necessary for

our survival. That's why we cannot see

infrared. We cannot see ultraviolet. We

cannot see the whole spectrum of

reality, radio, everything. saying we

can't see it all because it was not

necessary for our survival.

>> Why does life matter in the universe?

Like what what function does life have

in the universe?

>> I think we create our own meaning

individually.

>> I think there's no universal meaning for

life in general, but I think each of us

create our own meaning. I was saying

this because you were talking about, you

know, survival and I was just wondering

if there was some universal reason why

survival is so important to the

universe. But and

>> survival is important for the universe

cuz we survival writes history. If

there's no survival, there's nothing to

write. There's no memories. There's no

uh stories to tell. Nothing. There's

just a vacuum of space.

>> I was also asking that, I guess, because

you were saying how we only see one

version of reality. Mhm.

>> And so one would assume therefore that

there's another version of reality that

we can't even see. I mean I've heard

this before from physicists, you know,

and if you just think about different

animals, the bat sees a different

version of reality to the whale.

>> Like sonar for example.

>> Sonar for example. Even my dog, my dog

seems to see a completely different

version of reality than the one I see.

>> It smells much better than you. Alactory

nerves of a dog are infinitely better

than our alactory nerves in our nose.

They have a different reality. I guess

it begs the question like what is all of

this then?

>> Well, you're talking about the meaning

of life for which I have no answer.

Sorry about that.

>> I guess that was what I was asking but I

wasn't asking that wasn't what I was

intent on asking. But that's the base

question which is what's the point.

>> I'm not even sure if the universe has a

point. But my personal attitude is we

create our own point. We create our own

world and meaning within that world. It

could be different from another person's

meaning and understanding of the world,

but it's good enough for me.

>> What do you think of the um human sort

of proclivity to imagine a god and to

assign meaning and morality to that god

and say, well, you know, cuz we do have

this we do live with this kind of

god-shaped hole in our lives where we

don't really know where we came from. We

don't know what the point is. So, I

understand why it's tempting to say this

book that someone wrote once upon a time

that says this person, this thing

created us and these are the rules and

this is what good is, this is what bad

is, this is what we get if we follow the

rules. You know, as humans, we want

that.

>> Yes. And I think there's a reason for

that. And the answer is evolution. What

holds animals together? The alpha male,

the top dog. As humans became more

intelligent over millions of years,

humans bicker, we argue, we challenge

the leader and then tribes would fall

apart because you need some glue. You

need some glue to hold it together. And

if everyone becomes intelligent

uniformly, there's no glue anymore.

Everyone bickers, I'm the leader. No,

I'm the leader. So on and so forth. So

what happens is one person comes up and

says, I'm stronger than you. and I talk

to somebody even stronger than me, God.

And if you disobey me, then God will

strike you down. In other words, God is

a glue. God is a glue that holds

sensient beings together when there's no

reason to hold them together anymore and

they bicker and they the tribe falls

apart. What holds the tribe together?

God. Who is God? Well, God is not here,

but the son of God is here. And the son

of God says, "You got to do this, you

got to do this, you got to do this, and

you got to obey me." Why? Because I'm

the messenger. I'm the son of God. So, I

think religion has a definite purpose.

The purpose of religion is a glue to

hold sensient, intelligent beings

together.

>> What What do you think consciousness is?

>> Consciousness, I think, is a question of

awareness. the ability to create ideas

about you know why I mean what does it

mean meaning to give meaning to things

otherwise things become meaningless

so I think that's the purpose of

consciousness is to give us an awareness

of meaning do you think um these big

questions will ever be answered around

like where we came from what the point

is do you think we'll ever have answers

to these things

>> probably not however we have this

instinctive urge to to explore,

>> to look for new territories and new

ideas. And that is what I think keeps us

going. Animals do not have that. You

can't tell a dog, aren't you thrilled

that we're going to this new new house,

this new whatever, right? And dog says,

"No, just give me my my dinner." So, I

think that humans are different. The

purpose of the front part of our brain,

the cerebral cortex that holds us

together, it's a time machine.

It asked the question, "What's going to

happen in the future?" If you don't

believe me, go to your dog tonight and

ask your dog, uh, what did he do last

night? Uh,

and the dog will just bark.

No interest in what's happened

yesterday, what's happened tomorrow. We

constantly think about the future. We

can't help it. We are constantly

thinking about what's for dinner

tomorrow, who's my friend, who's my

enemy, what's going to what am I going

to do next year, what college am I going

to go to. We are obsessed with the

future.

That's what separates us from the animal

kingdom. Animals do not care about the

future. They just care about survival.

We, on the other hand, are obsessed with

the future because that's where our

survival lies. And why is that? Because

we don't have claws, we don't have

fangs, we don't have huge muscles, we

can't run very fast, we can't fly. We're

not like the animals. We are dependent

upon the front part of our brain. And

that's why we ask these questions that

you just asked. Why are you asking these

questions? Because you're programmed to

ask these questions. Animals are not.

I mean on the subject of intelligence

there is now new types of intelligence

amongst us. One of them um is referred

to as artificial intelligence

which is actually modeled on how the

brain works. You know I've sat here with

some of the experts in AI and they've

told me that they learned a lot about

the human brain um and how it reasons

and um how it processes information with

these neural nets as they call it which

is um a concept that that has been

inspired by the brain. And with that

they've started to build these very

intelligent machines which a lot of

people are now using in terms of large

language models like chatbt but but

we're going further and further into the

world of artificial intelligence. So I

mean one's going to one would reason

that the future looks very very very

different because of this new type of

intelligence and that it's going to

accelerate maybe a lot of the

discoveries and you know that we've

we've pondered about today but also that

it's going to change life as we know it.

And I mean some people even think that

human life won't be the dominant form of

intelligence in such a world.

What do you think?

>> Yes, I think that is a definite problem.

Right now I think a lot of our robots

have the intelligence of a bug,

>> an insect. They don't plan, they can't

articulate their thoughts and so so

forth. But they carry out orders very

well. But eventually it's only a matter

of time before they become as smart as a

mouse. then as smart as a rabbit, then

as smart as a dog or a cat, and finally

as smart as a monkey. At that point,

they are potentially dangerous.

>> The AI models though that are available

now are PhD level in terms of

intelligence.

>> No, you cannot talk PhD physics with

them. uh they're programmed they're

programmed to have certain ways of

thinking about certain things, but

they're not original. You can't come up

with a new theory of physics talking to

a robot. They basically take what is

programmed into them and work with that.

Now, eventually they may become

creative. Okay. But I think that's going

to take several decades before we are at

that point.

>> When you say creative, what's your

definition of creative in that context?

Robots right now take what is available

to them and rearrange things like

writing a book.

>> Isn't that what humans do? Don't we take

information and rearrange it?

>> Oh yeah, but we come up with new ideas

>> based on that information. The AIS can

make a photo that has never existed

before.

>> So isn't that by definition

>> on the basis of what did exist before?

In other words, something new,

>> but basically a rearrangement of

something that already existed. So, I'm

saying, you know, the Michael Jackson

documentaries just come out recently,

and you see Michael Jackson, the way he

moves, and you look at it and go, "Wow."

Like, no one's ever moved like that

before. And then my friend sent me this

video um which was what Michael Jackson

was actually inspired by, and it's this

um I'll throw it up on the screen so

other people can see, but it was

something that came before Michael

Jackson, and it was this guy who moved

in this very interesting way. And when I

watched this guy, I saw Michael Jackson.

Mhm.

>> And so you look up someone like Michael

Jackson and you go, "Oh my god, an

unbelievable creative genius artist."

But even he was inspired by by See if I

can get it to play. Even you see, even

he was inspired

>> by this individual. And then if I if I

play it forward, I mean, this is how

Michael Jackson moved,

>> right? Well, art, the bottom line of art

is mimicry. That's the bottom line of

art, except you arrange things in an

original way so it looks fresh. Am I

right in thinking that with Newton he

took the existing laws of physics and he

>> which were negligible

>> and he proposed

>> there were no laws of physics before

Newton

>> and he proposed a question.

>> Mhm.

>> And then he tested that question and

found an answer.

>> He asked himself a question. How come

the earth goes around the sun? and he

came up with an idea that was totally

different from what people had had

thought about before. He came up with

calculus. He came up with the inverse

square law. So what I'm saying is true

creativity comes from almost nothing and

it's like a supernova. Well, creativity

of a robot is imitative. Now there's

nothing wrong with that because of

course imitative artwork is still

artwork but it's imitative. Do you

believe people like uh like the big um

AI CEOs and Elon Musk when they say that

AI will lead to new discoveries in

science?

>> That's possible because there's so many

laws of physics that are known that many

of the new laws of physics are imitative

and you rearrange them and combine them

in different ways. So it's possible that

the big breakthroughs of the future will

be guided by breakthroughs of the past.

There's nothing wrong with that. H are

you concerned about AI at all?

>> I'm concerned about AI in the larger

perspective

that one day they can learn to do things

that are bad, learn to kill, learn to

maim to harm people. Realize that every

invention that we've made in the past

like the bow and arrow could be used for

good and bad. Everything. Okay? that the

bow and arrow could be good for game,

for food, for eating, but a bow and

arrow could be good for slaughtering

your your next door neighbor. Any new

invention has a double-edged sword to

it. And so, I think that so far most of

the applications of artificial

intelligence have been positive. We're

talking about labor costs. We're talking

about creating wealth. We're talking

about making things faster, cheaper,

better. That's all great, but you can

also create artificial intelligent

weapons as well. And the battlefield is

where it's happening. And if you take a

look at what's happening in the Ukraine

and uh Russia already, we're talking

about aerial weapons that can use wires

to lock onto their target.

>> And they use artificial intelligence to

guide them with this wire.

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Going back to this this this question of

the the Big Bang and where we all came

from,

if you had to posit a guess as to what

caused the Big Bang, would you land on

this bubble bath theory that you talked

about where there's just lots and lots

of universes, some of them are

contracting and expanding. Is that where

you would personally land?

>> Probably. If you take a look at empty

space, we now believe that empty space

is frothing. frothing with little

bubbles. Bubbles that pop into existence

and then annihilate and go back into

nothingness again. So even pure

nothingness is chalk full of activity.

And one day we think one day one of

these tiny little bubbles decided not to

go back into the vacuum but to keep on

expanding and expanding and that became

the big bang. And so that theory says

that the universe is dynamic and that

universes are being created all the

time.

>> What about Adam and Eve? And this

>> what about Adam and Eve?

>> Do you don't think the story is true

that there was a a garden, Adam and Eve,

Adam the apple, put your clothes on,

behave yourself and then you know we all

come from there. Well, I think there's

evolution and evolution did create life

forms that are single-sellled,

multi-selled and then cells with a

nervous system like fish and then fish

became land moving uh organisms. So, I

think there's a linear progression.

>> But you don't believe the stories told

in the first testament of the Bible

around how humans came to be. God

created the world in seven days. You

don't believe that stuff?

>> Well, I think it's a fairy tale. I think

it's a very compelling fairy tale, but I

think that even the people who teach

religion realize it as a metaphor that

we don't really mean 24 hours in a day

because that deals with the earth in the

universe. There could be other worlds

where a day is not 24 hours. A day does

not look like what the Bible says in

Genesis. So I think it's a um it's a way

to organize your religion into a way

that is digestible and and people can

understand it and it touches people

which is a which is the purpose of

religion. The purpose of religion is to

touch people to bring them together into

a commonality and that's what the story

of Genesis does. Religion in some sense

is a way to help people to show people

guidance the good life so that you don't

terrorize other people that you make

life better for other people not that it

explains the meaning of existence but it

gives you a reason for existence

>> and you would consider yourself to be an

atheist

>> no uh I'm agnostic I believe that

there's a lot of truth because it's a

way of behaving it's a way of learning

how to be good to your neighbor is a

glue that holds things together. Not

that it gives meaning for life, but it

shows the way.

>> It shows the way. And and the subject of

morality is often so intrinsically

linked to religion, which is what is

good and what is bad. Where does your

morality come from, doctor? Well, I was

in the United States Army for two years

and at that point I had to face death

and I had to face war. It was the height

of the Vietnam War. There were 500 GIS

dying every week. Every week, Life

magazine published an issue where they

had the pictures, just the pictures with

no commentary of all the GIS that died

that week with no commentary. No, I told

you so. Just the pictures of those

people that died. And then I realized

that I would have to put my life on the

line because my number was up and people

were going into the military

and people were realizing well war is

the way people you know work out their

differences.

But then I began to realize being in the

military

that there is a morality there. I began

to realize that the people that we were

fighting had their own religion. They

had their own way of looking at good and

evil and whatever. And they were willing

to sacrifice their life for their own

freedom. I began to question religion at

that point. Is it just a glue that holds

people together? Is there a deeper

meaning to the whole thing? So, one day

I was learning how to throw hand

grenades and our our sergeant who was

explaining to us how to throw hand

grenade had scars on one side of his

face, big scars on his neck. And we

asked him why.

And he said, "Well, one day a little

Vietnamese boy came up to him and the

Vietnamese boy says, "Candy, candy. You

want candy?" And the GI says, "No, no,

no. Get away from me. I don't want

candy. Well, the little boy showed what

was in his hand. It was a hand grenade.

It was not candy at all. And the little

boy threw the hand grenade at the

sergeant. Well, the sergeant immediately

saw what the danger was and he hit the

ground as soon as he could flat on the

ground. The grenade exploded and one

half of his body got saturated with

shrapnel. And then you have to ask

yourself a question. Why would a young

boy do something like this? It's because

he believed in something. And I think

there was a real big lesson for me. And

that is you have to believe in

something. You have to believe in the

goodness of men and also the fact that

men can do evil. And you have to fight

for what you think is right. And

therefore, it's not just a question of

we're number one. We're going to win

this war.

I used to sing a song in the morning. I

want to go to Vietnam. I want to kill a

Charlie Kong. I used to sing that every

morning at 4:00 in the morning. And then

I asked myself now why were we on the

right side of the wrong side? And then

at that point you begin to question what

is right and what is wrong? And then you

realize maybe I'm on the wrong side.

>> Maybe I'm on the wrong side. I mean, it

goes back to all the conflict happening

at the moment because we're

ideologically captured by whatever our

own religious beliefs are and that's

causing us to turn against each other

each other and cause so much pain and

suffering in the world. Do you think

there's any chance that this could at

all change or is this just part of the

human condition? Well, if you take a

look at the human condition, you realize

that warfare has been an integral part

of our evolution as a species. Even in

the animal kingdom, animals will fight

against other animals. And so my hope,

however, is that we're different from

the animals. We have a brain. We can

make moral decisions. Animals do not

understand the meaning of a moral

decision. animals is survival is who's

stronger, who has the food. We don't

necessarily have to engage in that

conflict. And so I would hope that we

use the brain that we have to think

through and create a better world. One

of the things I heard when I was very

young about the universe, and I guess

this was inspired by some theory within

physics, was that there are infinite

amounts of worlds out there. And I heard

this I heard someone say if the world is

infinite that means that there's a

someone like me a Steven Bartlett who

has an identical life to me up there

somewhere out in the stars who's living

a identical life to mine maybe other

than instead of in this cup there's

lemonade instead of coffee. This is what

they call is it called the many worlds

theory where they think there's

theoretically

>> it's a version of the many worlds theory

but most many worlds theory simply says

that there's an infinite number of

universes and worlds out there none of

them necessarily identical to ours but

independent of us that that is a

distinct possibility

>> but if there's infinite numbers that

means there's one just like this

identical to this

>> not necessarily you can have an infinite

number of things that don't repeat so in

other words

>> you necessarily have to have another

civilization that is exactly like ours.

You could, but it's not necessary. If

you believe in an infinite universe,

>> it's true, I guess. Do you think that's

plausible that there's an infinite

number?

>> It's possible. When you look at the when

you look at the night sky,

you're overwhelmed by the majesty of the

night sky and then you realize that

we're nothing but a dot, a dot on this

gigantic disc called the Milky Way

galaxy. And if this is the Milky Way

galaxy, then here we are thinking that

this is the entire universe. This is

nothing but a pinpoint on the Milky Way

galaxy. And how many galaxies are there?

We're talking about trillions of

galaxies that are out there. Each one

containing roughly 100 billion stars.

How are we supposed to feel about this?

I I did this um star tour um a couple of

months ago in LA where all it was was a

guy took me out to a field. not even a

field. It was the desert in Joshua Tree

at nighttime. And he just explained how

far away all the stars are. And then I

looked through a telescope and he was

like, "Okay, this thing you're seeing

here is a galaxy and it's a gazillion

miles that way and this one is a galaxy

as big as the Milky Way and it's a

gazillion miles that way." It made me

feel a lot of things. It made me feel

one irrelevant from a cosmic

perspective. It also relieves one's

anxiety. If anyone's anxious about this

life, you kind of feel like you're not

you don't matter that much. But also, it

can make you feel like it doesn't

matter, like there's no point because I

think there's a certain ego to humans

where we want to think it really,

really, really matters. Now, it might

matter to us, but does it actually

matter to the universe? That does our

lives matter to the universe?

>> Well, I like to think of it slightly

differently. I think on the other side

of the Milky Way galaxy, there's an

alien

>> who's writing the same equation that I'm

writing down right now in different

language, in different notations. But

he's also discovering string theory. And

there are a lot of galaxies out there,

each one with an individual saying,

"Gee, I think I discovered something new

about the universe." And these laws are

universal.

The equations that I'm writing down

right now are identical in different

language with equations that they're

writing down billions of light years

from us. And that gives me a sense of

oneness.

It gives me a sense that wow, we're part

of a a fellowship. We're part of a

camaraderie. We're on the same quest, a

quest to understand the nature of matter

and energy. We're on the same boat. Even

though we're speak different language,

even though we're on different sides of

the universe, we're all part of the same

club. Don't you think it's plausible

that we're going to destroy ourselves

before we we ever figure that answer out

or before we get to meet these aliens?

Because the technology we've been able

to create so far like nuclear weapons

and even things like AI, you play this

forward just on, you know, you talked

about probabilities being the most

important thing. The probability that

one of these egoomaniacs who has the

launch codes for a nuclear weapon at

some point decides that they're unhappy

or they feel threatened is pretty high

if you just extend time. I mean, the

probability goes up theoretically with

every year that passes that someone is

going to do make a mistake that wipes us

out. And the more advanced our science

gets, presumably, I mean, again, I'm

just theorizing, the higher the

probability that we create something

that can destroy ourselves.

>> Well, I like to look at it slightly

differently. I say to myself, what is

the smallest unit of history?

And I say it's the decade. Anything

smaller than a decade, you get random

fluctuations, noises, accidents taking

place on a decade. But if you look at

human history, decade by decade by

decade, you realize that oh my god, just

a few decades ago, it was horse and

buggy. Before that, we we just uh had

plows. Before that, we were barbarians.

And you begin to realize that we've come

a long ways. Not that we hit the end,

but we've come a long ways just in the

decade by decade analysis of the history

of the human race.

>> And we've got closer to being able to

destroy ourselves.

>> That that's true, too. Because before we

couldn't destroy ourselves. Now, for the

first time in human history, we have the

potential of destroying ourselves with

designer germs, with nuclear weapons,

with perhaps artificial intelligence. We

didn't have that capability before. And

it's only been in the last 80 years or

so as a consequence. So I think that

first of all it means that every decade

tremendous progress is made. There's no

doubt about that. But second we're a

knife's edge. You tilt it the wrong way

and there's world war. You tilt it the

other way and there's food and luxury

for everyone. And it's up to us to

decide which way the knife will go. But

my point is decade by decade we see the

enormous progress that we humans have

made. The next question is what about

the next few decades? That's a big

question mark.

>> Do you think humanity are going to be

able to travel out there amongst the

stars and become multilanetary like

someone like Elon Musk is um planning?

>> Well, I think it's for certain that

we're going to go not just to the moon

but to Mars and maybe even beyond that.

Then maybe not in our lifetime but in

our grandchildren's lifetime we may

break through and visit other planets

within our our solar system. Now to go

beyond that would require some sort of

warp drive because of the fact that the

nearest star is probably orbiting Alpha

Centauri which is 4 and a half light

years away from the planet Earth. So you

realize it would take hundreds if not

thousands of years to begin the

colonization of the nearby star systems.

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Thank you so much. If you could answer

any one mystery of the universe, you

know, I just I had it down here, the

answer. What What would you seek to

answer? Well, it's what I'm seeking for

my entire life. And that is we want that

one equation which is the secret of the

universe. We have the electromagnetic

force equation that's like half an inch

long. We have the equation for gravity

that's also about half an inch long. So

why not the theory of everything maybe

an inch long? We're not there yet, but I

think it does exist. And if we were to

find it, that would give us an

understanding of the entire universe.

And I think we're very close.

>> You think we're close?

>> I think we're close.

>> What makes you think we're close?

>> Because so far the theories that we do

have almost like magic. You look at the

history of the equations of physics and

you realize they get they get simpler

and simpler and simpler with time. You

can write down Newton's equation back

equations the equation for the nuclear

force on one sheet of paper. One sheet

of paper. The force that governs gravity

we don't have that yet. But we have the

other forces and the equations are very

simple. And that's why I think that the

final equation will also be simple. One

of the things that uh that sometimes

inspires me is that when you look at

nature or when you look at something

like the human brain, you see the same

patterns as you see when you look up out

at the stars. And one of the I mean I'm

so fascinated by the nature of the human

brain because it seems to be so so

powerful. And it also seems to have

patterns we see in the wider universe.

Do you ever think about this about the

brain and how astonishing it is as a as

a thing? Well, when I look at the

animals, that makes me triply impressed.

The fact that animals cannot share in

that, that we see a universe that the

animals cannot see. We see patterns. We

see meaning. We give rhyme and reason to

what we see. With animals, it's just

where's my dinner?

>> Do you think the brain is as fascinating

as the universe is fascinating?

>> I think the universe is more

fascinating. No matter how fast we are

with physics and the mathematics of

physics, pure mathematics is still more

more profound. You wrote this book

called The Physics of the Future: How

Science Will Shape Human Destiny and Our

Daily Lives by the Year 2100?

If I was alive in 2100, based on

everything you know about physics, what

am I likely to see, experience? How is

life likely to be different in that

future? Well, I think we'll probably be

on the moon, maybe to Mars, and perhaps

even dream about sending the first space

probes. Even beyond that, we're talking

about being able to

use artificial intelligence to send

probes out there. Of course, we're not

going to go to the stars. That's that's

a few hundred years into the future, but

I think that we will begin to to

understand the solar system within this

century.

And this also means that we'll have

artificial intelligence,

a cure for cancer, and maybe one will

aid the other. Maybe artificial

intelligence will help us to cure cancer

and many diseases and longevity. Perhaps

we'll begin the process of solving the

immortality crisis.

>> Do you think we will be able to live

forever in the near future?

>> I think there's a possibility that we

may have an indefinite lifespan. I think

that's a possibility. And you think it's

possible within the laws of I guess

physics and biology?

>> Yes. Um at the end of our chromosomes of

every cell, there's something called the

tiemers. And the tieummers are like a

clock. They get shorter every time a

cell reproduces. And when the tiemer

gets so short, it frays, falls apart,

and you die. So we have a time limit.

We've also discovered talomeorase, a

chemical that stops the clock. This was

incredible when it was first announced

that if there's a clock in our body

called the tie that tracks how long

we're going to live and there's

something called tomease which stops the

clock then can we live forever? Well,

that was the good news. Then the bad

news was we found out that most of to

our shock cancer also uses tieumirs and

tomeorase to live forever. Why does

cancer kill you? Because they are

immortal in principle they could they

could live forever. And so it means that

the secret of immortality is tantalizing

close. We do know that there are cells

that make immortality possible but

there's a price to pay. The price to pay

is you don't want cancers to also follow

you. So here's the trick of the game. We

have a whole bunch of top people in the

sciences and medicine looking for ways

to extend the human lifespan with the

tie without wakening up the cancers that

make cancer possible. One of the uh

things you wrote a book about two years

ago in or three years ago now in 2023

and that's when it was published. Um is

this thing here?

That's right. What is this?

This is

the future. This is a quantum computer.

It's a computer that computes not on

transistors, which is oldfashioned. It

computes on atoms. Think about that. The

ultimate object beyond the transistors

that you can compute with is the atom.

And how do transistors work? Transistors

can be up or down. Up or down. It's

called digital.

>> Can you demonstrate that on there? And

this is your other

>> Yeah. So, think of this as a cell. And

the cell could either be switched on.

>> Yeah.

>> Or switched off. If you take a computer

and open it up, what do you find?

Switches like this. They're called

transistors. transistors that tell you

whether it's on or off.

>> Now that's digital. This is the

revolution of today. This is the

revolution of tomorrow.

Not just up or down of in between. How

many states are there between zero and

one in principle? An infinite number of

states between zero and one. So this is

the basis of a digital computer. Mhm.

>> This is the basis of a quantum computer.

Quantum computers are so powerful that

even the CIA is worried that one day,

perhaps in the future, they'll be so

powerful they'll be able to break into

any known digital code. So even the CIA

is worried about the fact that these

could become so powerful that they allow

you to break into any known computer. So

these are called quantum computers. Why

are they powerful? Because they compute

not on transistors. They compete on

atoms. And you can't get much smaller

than an atom and have stable matter. But

that's what quantum computers can do.

And they exist. This is not science

fiction. They already exist. So just to

simplify this in a way that I can

understand it, normal computers are very

very simple like this switch. They they

kind of exist in a linear direction

>> up or down on or off

>> kind of binary yes or no.

>> That's right. Whereas a quantum computer

is more like this where it can it can

process information in so many different

directions at the same time so that it's

going to be way more powerful

>> way more powerful way down

>> and I was looking recently and Google um

did an announcement not actually this

year where they basically set a deadline

for the cyber security world and they

started to warn governments and banks

and other tech giants that because they

have a quantum computer now that is very

very powerful

They're worried that it will be able to

crack a lot of the digital worlds that

we all rely on, including banks, even

Bitcoin, which was quite interesting.

And they've set 2029

as the the deadline for everybody to get

their together. This is a massive

threat to things like Bitcoin, which is

Bitcoin is essentially secured by a

equation that they believe quantum

computers are going to be able to very

easily crack. And if they do that, then

everyone's Bitcoin, for example, is um

is at jeopardy. But beyond Bitcoin, what

does the world look like in a world

where we have these incredible

computers? Well, first of all, who's

doing this work? And it turns out the

CIA is following this work very

carefully because with this, you'll be

able to crack any code. Why is it that a

thief cannot steal your bank account