Let's talk about this is going to be a

segue to talking about running down a

dream and all things involved with that.

Maybe we could start with an anecdote

from a fellow Austin night. Likes to

play the bongos, long hair, associated

with smoke and reaper every once in a

while.

Matthew talking about a short anecdote

about Matthew before we started

recording. Would you mind sharing that?

As I was kind of wrapping up the book, I

started listening to Green Lights and I

was told you had to listen to it because

of course he reads it. So you get all

the great Mccah affections as you read

it. But there's a story in it that just

popped in my brain and kind of

summarized exactly what I'm trying to

accomplish with this book, Running Down

a Dream. And he had spent the vast

majority of his young adult life. So

this anecdotes from when he was like 20,

21, telling his family he was going to

be a lawyer. And so he'd gotten into the

University of Texas. He was pre-law.

Every time he went home, he talked

about, "Yeah, I'm going to be a lawyer."

And he had met some people at Texas that

had convinced him that he should switch

to film school. And he had immense

anxiety about sharing this with his

father. his father, this is all in the

book, but his father's a very tough

individual. And so, reason to be

fearful, you know, when you're going to

drop some news, no longer going to be a

lawyer. I'm going to go to film school.

And he builds it up a lot in the book.

Like, I didn't know when I was going to

talk to him. Like, you can imagine being

in that situation. You're delaying,

delaying, delaying. But he finally tells

his dad. And his dad utters this very

simple phrase, "Well, don't halfass it."

And he says, you know, of all the

reactions he could have had, don't

halfass it were the last words I

expected to hear and the best words he

could have ever said to me. And he said

in that single moment, he gave him

blessing, consent, approval, validation,

privilege, honor, freedom, and

responsibility. Called it rocket fuel.

And I'd like to believe there are a

number of people out there, young

adults, maybe even some mid midlife

career, who have this notion that they

should be doing something else, but

society has put them on a path or just

the way they metriculated through

college put them into a career that they

just don't love and that they have this

inkling that they could go do this

thing. Or maybe you're a young kid and

you really want to do X, but everybody

else is telling you to do A, B, and C.

Like, I want to help them have the

confidence and permission to go do X, to

go chase this dream.

>> And as you hinted at from our last call,

I think the amount of your ability to

make connections and to gather

information and learn on your own pace

has never been better. You can literally

just sit there and talk to Chad GPT six

hours a day if you so choose and learn

so much about any particular field. And

so like your ability to take things into

your own hands and to go try and be

successful in this thing that you feel

passionate about I think has never been

better. Why do you think when you

initially gave and subsequently had to

go online run down a dream as a

presentation, why do you think that took

why did it strike a chord in the way

that it did? What do you think it was? I

think we've built a society like

nobody's fault like we just have built a

society where we love to celebrate

people that are successful in a lot of

different fields but when it comes to

our own children we tend to think way

more pragmatically about what they

should be doing. you know, lawyers,

consultants,

doctors, computer scientists, like it's

all these jobs that have certainty to

the financial component. And I think

that's like so well intended. Like I

don't think there's mal intent of anyone

in the system. And I'm a parent of

three. Like I've been through this. You

just feel this obligation to try and

push them towards prosperity. But it's

not intellectual prosperity. It's not

happiness. It's it's financial

stability.

>> Yes. That most people are guiding

children towards. This isn't that

complicated a math, but most people end

up working 80,000 hours in their life.

It's a third of your life. Why do

something you don't like? There's Gallup

poll data on career engagement and 59%

of people say they're not engaged at

work. And this is that whole quiet

quitting thing that we hear so much

about. And some of these numbers are at

an all-time low. It just seems horrific

that people are kind of sauntering

through life.

>> What are some of the keys to

taking the path less traveled than in

this case, right? There are few I

highlighted for myself, but where should

we start? I highlighted one for myself.

We don't have to start here, but go

where the action is. I just think this

is so underrated

and people it further undervalue it

maybe in a digital world but we can

start anywhere you want. That's just one

that really jumped out to me because I

think it's really underrated. But where

would you like to start

>> in the book? One of the things that we

tie together very early on is the

interplay between

passion or fascination or curiosity and

learning. And the way to be most

successful in any endeavor, but

certainly if you're going to go tilt it,

something that's less pragmatic

>> is to be the smartest, most

knowledgeable person you can possibly

be. And knowledge is free now, as we've

talked about. And I have this test for

whether or not you're actually

truly passionate about what you're

trying to do, which is do you self-learn

on your own time? like would you not

watch Breaking Bad and read about this

field and be energized by that activity?

>> Mhm.

>> If you are and you know we have 20 30

different stories in the book of people

that have been successful almost all of

them check that box.

>> You just have this amazing ability to

gain knowledge so much faster than

everyone else you would be competing

with.

>> Mh.

>> And that's going to be useful. that's

unquestionably gonna be useful.

>> It makes me think of an interview I saw

a long time ago actually. It was quite a

few years ago, but it was an interview

with Joe Rogan and he said something

that surprised me. It might surprise a

lot of people, which was along the lines

of he's not good at it was either

willpower or discipline, which is he's

in great shape. Obviously, he's black

belt in jiu-jitsu. He's done what he's

done with the podcast. He's the

undisputed king of podcasting, etc.,

etc. And he said, "I'm not actually good

at whether it was discipline or

willpower, but I am good at obsession.

It's all on or all off." And I've seen

that. I'm sure you've seen this in a lot

of the entrepreneurs who actually make

it to the other side and create these

mega successes. They are just obsessed.

And that gives them a huge not just

knowledge advantage, but endurance

advantage. You just go down the check

boxes. It's all advantages.

>> I had the opportunity to talk to Angela

Duckworth when I was working on this and

her book Grit talks about two

components, passion and perseverance.

And I heard a podcast she had done

recently where she said if she could go

back,

>> she would put far more weight on the

passion than the perseverance because

she says we've taught our children to

grind. Mhm.

>> And so once again, starting in sixth

grade, they're told to learn the flute

and take lacrosse and do all this stuff

and crush the SATs and take the extra

credit classes and all this and they all

do it and then they go to college and

how you doing? They take six hours of

class instead of four and they're just

going. But eventually, she says, if you

don't have that passion, you just burn

out. And so you're right about the

energy part. I think it's both knowledge

and you've put in more cycles.

>> Yeah. It makes me think of maybe this is

cliched in Silicon Valley because it

gets so oft repeated, but a lot of folks

listening will not have heard it, which

is if you're looking for the next sort

of technological breakthrough or

something on the edge, look for what the

nerds are doing on the weekends, right?

It's not just a great way to find what

might be coming around the corner in a

few years. It's a great way to find the

people to bet on who are already using

their excess their free time to work on

these things. I think of Pettis and 3D

printing. I mean, I can just go down the

list.

>> And by the way, that's another advantage

of going to the epicenter is there's

more people doing that all the time.