Stop taking life so seriously. No one is

getting out of this game alive. And in

three generations, no one will even

remember your name. And if that doesn't

give you liberation to just drop your

problems for a moment and find some joy,

I don't know what will because there'll

never be a time when there's no problems

in life. And that's why this time in

between Christmas and New Year is a

really wonderful time to plan big dreams

and goals for the year.

>> So, let's talk about that.

>> Chris Williamson is one of the world's

leading podcast hosts and thinkers. And

now he's back

>> educating us on how to build discipline,

turning goals into results, what's

stopping us finding love,

>> and what makes a good man in today's

society?

>> The single [music] best question to work

out what you should be doing next year,

what would have to happen by the end of

2026. For me to look back and consider

it a success and it usually comes down

to only a few things. The first one is

in order to pick something up, you have

to put something down. So setting the

bar unrealistically high does not

increase your performance. Like you

probably lose 20 lb and get a boyfriend.

You can't do that and move cities and

start a new business. So, make the

assumption, I can do no more than I'm

doing now. Second thing, if your life

was a movie and the audience were

watching, what would they be screaming

at the screen telling you to do with

your life? It is obvious. Leave the

relationship. The job is not working for

you. The killer's hiding in the

cupboard. Because if you're not careful

with how you design what it is that you

chase after, you can spend your entire

life realizing that you climbed a huge

ladder that was leaning up against the

wrong wall.

>> And is there anything else? So there is

a wonderful upside in trying to conquer

and trying to achieve mastery, trying to

really drive yourself to go and do

stuff. But I'm not like your feelings,

just hustle and grind until your eyes

bleed either because one of the biggest

lessons I've taken away from this year

is [music] suppression isn't the same

thing as strength. And it's a good thing

for guys who feel their emotions to show

that they feel their emotions, right?

Like I've been at some of my lowest

points over the last 12 months. It felt

like my better self was slipping through

my fingers. I realized my emotions are

legitimate and denying myself that is

not helping anything at all. What

happened?

>> I see messages all the time in the

comment section that some of you didn't

realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

could do me a favor and double check if

you're a subscriber to this channel,

that would be tremendously appreciated.

It's the simple, it's the free thing

that anybody that watches this show

frequently can do to help us here to

keep everything going in this show in

the trajectory it's on. So, please do

double check if you've subscribed and uh

thank you so much because in a strange

way you are you're part of our history

and you're on this journey with us and I

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank

you [music]

[singing]

Chris.

My audience care a lot about changing

their life for the better. And I think

at this time of year, change is front of

mind for everybody. Everybody's thinking

about New Year's resolutions, who I want

to become in 2026. But when you look at

the stats, 23% of people quit by the end

of the first week of January, their New

Year's resolution, the thing they aimed

at.

>> Roughly half of people will quit their

New Year's resolution, the change they

sought by the end of January. and only

about 9% of people will keep their New

Year's resolution for the full year. So

I guess my opening question to you is

does this time of year matter at all? Is

it a useful productive time to be

thinking about change in your point of

view? I think the world is split into

two camps. Uh one camp says there is no

difference between January 1st and

December 31st. Like why wait? It's

December 10th, just do it now. and the

other camp likes the idea of there being

a culturally appropriate moment to stop

doing something and start doing

something else. Most people need to

realize that they're already spending

tons of time worrying about the future

in the past. They're going back to this

thing that they regret. I wish I'd done

this differently. Oh, I I have uh uh

rumination about something that

occurred. I have a sense of uh

wistfulness for something that I've

maybe missed. I'm grief for something

that I've lost. Then they're concerned

about the future. They're thinking, "I'm

uncertain about this thing that's going

to happen. I could plan. I could try and

come up with a solution for this." So,

you're already worrying about the past.

You're already doing reflection and

planning just in a very unstructured way

where you don't get to choose when it

hits you in the face.

This is a culturally appropriate moment,

like a scheduling appropriate moment for

you to just step in and think, okay, in

between Christmas and New Year, people

that work in retail, God bless you,

people that got to go back to work and

do that thing, but usually there's a bit

of downtime.

>> It's a little bit slower. It's Boxing

Day, chilling out on the couch, and

you're kind of thinking, "Wow, I was

here again at mom and dad's house or

with the in-laws or whatever. What was I

doing last year? What was it like last

year? You're already in a little bit of

a reflective mode. There is no special

magic super secret squirrel source in

January 1st. But it is a good moment to

check in because life tends to slow down

a little bit. Work tends work uh time is

a little bit more slow and you're

already doing this. You're already

thinking about the past and the future

and this is just a good structured

opportunity to check in and do it. I

guess the the question that everybody

should be asking themselves is what

should I aim at? And and is there such a

thing as aiming at too many things? What

what what is a good goal for change? And

when you think about all the people

you've interviewed and the change you've

seen in your own life, what what does a

productive New Year's resolution or

productive goal sound like? And how do I

how do I get there?

>> Yeah. It's very overwhelming. Uh if you

realize, wow, I can do anything I want.

I could look at my entire life.

That's terrifying. That's absolutely

terrifying.

One thing I would say, this is your

opportunity to change anything

behaviorally. You can change anything

you want. Not everything you want.

Right? That's the problem. You can

become anything you want behaviorally,

but you can't be everything you want.

So, you need to pick a small number. The

single best question to work out what

you should be doing next year. what

would have to happen by the end of 2026

for me to look back on 2026 and consider

it a success. I think that really helps

to just give you a bit more perspective

and it usually comes down to only a few

things. You don't usually have so much

in your mind when you do that. Setting

the bar unrealistically high does not

increase your performance. Imagine this.

Imagine that you went into a buffet and

you made your plate as big as possible.

He said, "I want all of these things.

I'm going to put all of this stuff on my

plate and my stomach is going to expand

to be able to fit it."

>> That's not the way that our stomachs

work and that is not the way that our

workloads work. So, first rule, in order

to pick something up, you have to put

something down.

Don't assume that just because you've

loaded more onto your workload plate,

your work capacity will expand to be

able to fit it into your stomach. That's

not the way that it works.

assume. Make the assumption I can do no

more than I'm doing now. I can switch

stuff, but I can't add more in. Maybe

you can. Maybe you're going to be able

to squeeze your phone time. Maybe you're

going to be able to become more

efficient, more productive, whatever.

But it's safer to just assume this is

the pie that I'm playing with. And in

order to pick something up, I have to

put something down. That's a really

important thing because at the moment

it's December 29th. I'm with I'm full of

gusto and motivation and I can't wait.

I'm going to crush it. And yeah, for the

first week, maybe you've got that. But

if you're using motivation and

enthusiasm to work yourself through your

goals, your goals are predicated largely

on a fuel source that you don't have

control over. Don't have a massive

amount of control over your motivation

over a long amount of time. Like it

comes and then it goes. You want

something that's a little bit more

rigid. So in order to pick something up,

you have to put something down. I think

that's a really important point because

when we think about the goals we'll

start setting at this time of the year,

all of them are asking for more time or

more energy. Like pretty much all of

them ask for I want to start running. I

want to start going to the gym. Whereas,

as you say, that means I'm going to have

to take something off the plate.

>> Yeah.

>> And we don't think about subtraction at

this time of the year. Typically, we

don't think I'm going to spend less time

with my friends. I'm going to cut out

Netflix. We think of addition. Mhm.

>> But logically there's still just just

the 24 hours in a day and that the

finite amount of body budget that we

have in terms of energy. So are you

saying that I have to create both an

addition and subtraction list and make

sure that they equal out they net out to

zero?

>> That would be optimal. I think one

question that you really should be

asking yourself. Let's go through a

bunch of uncomfortable questions people

can ask themselves. That could be cool.

>> Okay.

How would I spend my day if I wanted to

make 85year-old me as miserable as

possible?

>> What is it that I did over the last year

that made me right now

feel

it's this constriction.

>> Okay.

>> I I I don't like I don't like my

relationship with my phone. I spend a

lot of time on my phone. I don't like

how uh my mornings aren't very

productive. Uh I've noticed that when

I'm with my friends, I'm not very

present. I've noticed that I spend a lot

of time on my own. I tend to isolate

when things get difficult. I've noticed

that I've got into the habit of not

telling the truth when people ask me a

question. I've noticed that I've got

into the habit of not advocating for my

needs when I should do. I don't hold my

boundaries sufficiently well. Like, this

is why the reflection part's really

important. So,

what would I do to make 85-year-old me

as miserable as possible? How would I

spend my day? And in what ways am I

already doing that? Well,

a lot of those are going to cross over.

That ven diagram is not going to be as

far apart as you might think it is. I've

heard you ask the question before about

if someone was watching this and it was

a movie. What was that?

>> Yes. I mean I mean it's the this

question is so fantastic.

If your life was a movie and the

audience were watching up to this point,

what would they be screaming at the

screen telling you to do with your life?

They would be it is obvious. Leave the

relationship. The job is not working for

you. The killer's hiding in the

cupboard.

>> [snorts]

>> What would the audience be screaming at

the screen telling you to do with your

life?

>> So, you've asked three questions and I'm

going to ask you those three questions.

>> Okay.

>> So, the first question you asked was

about what would have to happen at

[clears throat] the end of next year to

look back and consider this year a

success. So, for you personally, I want

to spend more time thinking about ideas

and less time caught up of doing admin.

>> Uh admin is a drain on me. I don't enjoy

I don't enjoy emails. I don't enjoy the

operations of that sort of stuff.

>> Spend time making or

>> Yeah, I want to be in maker mode, not

manager mode,

>> would be a way to put it. Uh, I want to

spend more time with my friends. I've

been soloreneur grind set, you know,

pick it up and lift it type thing a lot

for the last forever. More time with my

friends, more time connecting with

people. So,

that's two things. Like, if I can do

that, spend more time with my friends

and less time doing admin. Now, one of

the problems that you have is and I want

to lose 20 pounds and I want to get my

bench press up to 200 kilos and I want

to do this and it's like really like do

you really really really want that?

Because when I think about it, I have

like much more gentle goals have much

broader goals and that's the stuff that

I think is important to me.

>> And if we think about your subtraction

framework, what what are you going to

have to subtract?

>> Well, what's interesting about those is

that actually those aren't necessarily

additions. The friends thing is an

addition, but the executive functioning

thing, the admin burden is not. So,

actually, that's nice because I want to

do less of that thing, which should

hopefully open up a little bit of time.

What would I need to get rid of? I'd

realistically need to get rid of some

time sat in front of my computer doing

boring admin stuff. [gasps] I'd probably

need to spend less time scrolling on my

phone, less time on social media. I

would maybe need to make some sacrifices

in training as well. If I'm going to go

out with my friends a little bit more in

an evening, I'm gonna have to get up a

bit later. So, there's some of the

trades that we're gonna have to make.

>> The other question was around if this

was a movie and the audience was

screaming at you.

>> Mhm.

>> What would they be screaming?

>> You're already doing enough.

You're already doing enough. Stop

whipping yourself into submission,

thinking that your happiness sits on the

other side of the next set of goals that

you're going to achieve. You've already

achieved goals that you said would make

you happy.

So if you haven't made it now, if this

isn't when life is going to begin, then

when when when are you going to start?

There's this uh wonderful idea of the

the deferred life hypothesis. Deferred

life hypothesis is basically the sort of

common belief that our life hasn't yet

begun. That what's happening now is a

sort of prelude. It's an intro to our

life truly beginning. And upon

reflection, what a lot of people realize

is that this prelude that they run

through was a mirage that sort of faded

as they approached and they were

actually just running toward the end of

their life. Like they're permanently

putting things off. I get it. People

have got realistic structural monetary

requirements. They've got to get up.

They've got to go to work. They've got

to [ __ ] change their nappy. They've

got to walk their dog. They've got

things that they need to do. That's not

what I'm talking about. My point is

everybody thinks a lot of people think

in one form or another that my life will

begin when they're holding their

happiness hostage. They're in a holding

pattern like a plane that can't land for

some reason. It's like what if that what

if that never changes? What if your

problems in life are never ever going to

go away? What if problems are always

going to be there? What then? Oh wow.

Well, I'm never going to arrive. That

means I need to start living now. And I

think for me there's definitely a lot of

um I will get there when once the tasks

of today are completed once the problems

are gotten through. There'll never be a

time when there's no problems in life.

Problems are a feature, not a bug.

>> I sometimes wonder if this is a trait of

just human evolution. Like it makes

survival sense for it to be hardwired

into my genetic code to strive to

basically continue to strive like to

continue to conquer to continue to

build. And in fact, maybe if my

ancestors didn't have that, we wouldn't

be sat in a room now with all these

lights and fancy cameras and such

because this is the consequence of a

species that strive. And so I wonder if

this is like the curse of being human,

which is we just endlessly strive and

then we die. And because we did our our

offspring have a higher rate of

survival. And like when I speak to

people from, you know, like East Asian

traditions and stuff, they talk about

being at peace and being at one and

being satisfied and all these things,

but it seems so alien to me to be

satisfied.

>> I I I I think I live in a dichotomy

where I'm like well aware nothing will

change my happiness and then at the same

time I'm completely striving as if it

would. Of course, that's a human

condition. We habituate in both

directions. So if your ancestors had

been satisfied when they got to a cave,

when their family grew and they needed a

bigger cave, when you don't just go and

find one bush, you find a ton of bushes

and then you expand and that gives you

additional security.

>> But unfortunately in the modern world,

that causes us with an infinite amount

of things that we can do and can chase

after. We sacrifice the important for

the urgent. The urgent's always in front

of us. the email, the next meeting.

>> Yeah.

>> And this is again, why should anybody

care about doing an annual review?

Should anybody care about the new year?

Well, you're busy living your life for

almost the entirety of the year. And

this is one moment where the urgent can

just take a tiny bit of a backseat and

the important can come through. Who have

I been over the last year? What do I

want from next [clears throat] year?

Every single year is a chapter of your

life.

for next year. It's chapter 38 for me.

What do I want that chapter to be about?

>> Do you think there's a single a single

change you could make to your life that

would yield the greatest return on

happiness? Like if you could go into

your own hardware

>> and rewrite the code a little bit.

>> I think less striving would actually

make me happier. I think that a lot of

striving and a desire for success comes

from a sense of insufficiency. Like if

only the world recognized my brilliance,

then I will be validated. And it takes a

long time to realize that you don't fix

internal voids with external accolades.

The problem with that is it's an

unteachable lesson. You try and tell

people that money won't fix your

happiness problem or fame won't fix your

self-worth problem. You should see your

parents more. Time in a hammock is never

wasted. You don't love that pretty girl.

She's just hot and difficult to get.

Like all of these things are only

lessons that you can learn once you've

got there. And people who haven't yet

gotten there think, "Well, that's easy

for you to say." And then when they

arrive, for some reason they seem to

evangelize the same insights like

somebody that's just gone through

religious revelation. So either one of

two things is true. People who achieve a

thing are lying about the fact that that

thing didn't fix their problems, their

internal void with external accolades

because of they're part of some cartel

that's trying to pull the ladder up

after they've just gotten in.

>> Or it's the truth, but it's it's an

unteachable lesson. You will not

understand that that thing outside won't

fix your internal void until you get

there. And I I actually think to Naval

quote, it's far easy to achieve our

material desires than to renounce them.

Like if you want a Ferrari, it's much

easier to actually work real hard and

try and like or get some nice car,

whatever it is, so that you learn that

the car isn't the thing that you want

than it is to rid yourself of the desire

for the car overall. And that's not to

say that getting a Ferrari is easy. is

to say that getting rid of the desire is

essentially impossible.

>> I think me and you are probably two guys

that at some deep level had some kind of

internal void. Is that accurate

statement?

>> Of course. Are you speaking in the past

tense?

>> Have. [laughter]

>> Have. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> You've now accomplished so much. You're

like one of the biggest podcasters on

planet earth. You're you're famous.

People know who you are.

>> Biggest in the world talking to second

biggest in the [laughter] world.

Congratulations.

>> But people know who you are. You've got,

you know, money. You've got freedom now.

You can go wherever you want. do

whatever you want. People know who you

are. You get restaurant t reservation

tables.

>> You did it.

>> Is it what you expected? And has has it

actually changed that internal void?

>> The interesting thing is I never

actually thought I was going to amount

to much. I was just I was just really

interested in what was doing what what I

was doing what was in front of me. I

didn't think

this is going to lead to me being some

achieving something or living in America

or whatever. Each different step got me

there. But no, of course not. Of course.

The the the unteachable lesson has

smashed me in the face, which is

fame won't fix your self worth, money

won't make you happy, you should see

your parents more, you can take a day

off. Like all of these lessons, you have

to live them to learn them,

unfortunately. And my last question on

this is when I asked about the change to

your code that you'd make, you talked

about fixing the striving. What's been

the downside of the striving?

>> There's a a common sense of not

enoughness like I will be enough when

right because you can either run away

from something you want or run towards

something uh run yeah run away from

something you fear or run towards

something you want.

>> And what's the consequence of that not

enoughness?

>> It's a sense of lack. It's also a

provisional life. It's putting life off.

I will be

happy, satisfied, peaceful when

>> And is that a thought you have?

>> It's more like an embodied sense. Feel

it. Yeah, I very much feel it. It's this

thriving. It's this pull. It's this sort

of magnetism moving forward.

>> But yeah, dude. Uh if your life was a

movie and the audience were watching up

to this point, what would they be

screaming at the screen telling you to

do? It's usually a very reliable

indicator of where you should be putting

your attention. So, as we think about

next year that the things one should aim

at.

>> Um, what I've heard you I think you said

on the high performance podcast, you

said you're really obsessed with

understanding what success actually is.

>> So, I I also just before we go into the

more practical things,

>> if someone sat at home and I know people

come up to you on your tours and ask you

questions like this a lot, if they're

sat at home trying to figure out what

success actually is for them, is there a

framework or a principle or a method to

figure out what it might mean for them?

I've heard you talk about two ideas

which I love which is the region beta

paradox but also the parable of the

Mexican fisherman which I think both

stayed with me in a profound way. Yeah.

So

three things success region beta uh

Mexican fisherman what success looks

like for any individual person is going

to be different for you knowing that you

really want a family. There's people out

there that like I'm not that fussed. I

don't think that that's on the cards for

me and that's fine. Other people might

really really want to put the workload

down and step off and and go and do the

dad or the mom thing. Unfortunately, you

can't take somebody else's purpose or

success. Like that's that's you can't

wear it as a suit. It's a bad idea,

right? Cuz it's going to not fit. And um

wonderful line, let go or be dragged. If

something doesn't fit, eventually it's

going to hurt wearing it. And that means

if you're not careful with how you

design what it is that you chase after,

you can spend your entire life realizing

that you climbed a huge [ __ ] ladder,

a very, very long ladder that was

leaning up against the wrong wall.

>> And uh you need to ensure that you don't

do that. And this is why we need to just

sit with ourselves, sit with a little

bit of reflection. And that's why this

time in between Christmas and New Year,

I think, is a really wonderful time to

do this. So, how do you work out what it

is that you want to do? the big picture

goals are going to be hard for you to to

get to. But if you just think one year

ahead, what do I want over the next 12

months? I think that usually helps you.

And maybe you want to be in a

relationship. I want to be in a

committed relationship with someone who

really loves me. Okay, now we can start

to talk about a plan to do that. But you

need to have a little bit of silence.

It's like a problem with permanently

being busy stops you from being able to

listen to fleeting thoughts that are in

the back of your mind. Mhm.

>> And that quiet voice is usually the

really powerful one. But

the there's a wonderful line, the

answers you seek are in the silence

you're avoiding.

The answers that you seek are in the

silence you're avoiding.

>> Do you meditate?

>> Of course you do.

>> Yes.

>> No.

>> Yeah. Do you?

>> No.

>> Do you wish you did?

>> I think the the definition of meditation

is quite blurry because for me when I'm

I I will have a shower for like 30

minutes and all I'm doing in there is

thinking. I'm not cleaning. [laughter]

Like I'm clean after five minutes.

>> I was gonna say it suggests that you

come out of the shower not clean but

with great ideas.

>> Exactly. [laughter]

>> No, but I I I mean you get clean in like

5 minutes, but then I spend the other 25

minutes because there's something about

the waterfalling and the alone time that

drops me into a a spiral of thinking

which I think is my version of

meditation. Then treadmills and the

stepper at the gym.

>> Treadmills are great.

>> Yeah.

>> My version of meditation.

>> Shower thoughts are overrated. Toilet

thoughts are underrated. The other thing

that I I love that you talk about is

what it when we talk about metrics of

success, you talk about observable

metrics and hidden metrics

>> of success.

>> Yeah. So, a lot of the time we'll trade

a hidden metric for an observable

metric. Something that's observable

would be your job title, what your

salary is per year, how many people know

you, your bank balance, the size of your

house, the car that you drive,

>> things people can see.

>> Yeah, of course. The only way that your

success can be judged is outwardly. So

naturally we trade something which

people can't see for something that they

can see. For instance, lots of people

would trade a longer commute for a

higher salary or um

a better job title. One of the problems

that you encounter with that is that the

length of your commute is one of the

most correlated uh stats with your

happiness. Longer commutes reliably make

people more miserable. And what's the

hidden metric that you've lost by doing

that? Well, that's less time with your

family, with maybe your kids that are

growing up, with your wife to connect,

that's less time to pursue your own

passions, even if your job is your

passion. So, what about uh a more

stressful career? Going to move into a

different industry that's way more

stressful, but it pays more observable

metric. What's the hidden metric? What

about the peace of mind that you have as

you go to sleep at night? What about

what that does to your health and the

quality of your relationships and your

ability to be present on a weekend?

because you're not able to turn your

phone off because your last job was 9

to5, but this one is 247.

Well, it's difficult to say because

you're like, people want and need real

resources. I want to improve the quality

of my family. That's a noble thing to

do. But after a while, you have to admit

if you already live a comfortable

quality of life and you trade it,

you you trade your happiness or your

your peace in order to get more,

you're making a bad choice because

you're going to sacrifice something that

you want, which is happiness, peace,

connection for something that's supposed

to get the thing that you want, which is

money, job title, bigger car,

>> which I think links to the story of the

Mexican fisher.

>> Yeah. Parable of the Mexican fisherman.

Uh,

an American businessman was away on a

holiday in Mexico and he got taken out

by a fisherman and he asked the

fisherman, "So, what do you do each

day?" The fisherman said, "I spend each

morning out on the water. I fish a

little. I catch some food. I take it

home and I sit in my house with my wife

and my family and we eat what I've

caught for the day." The American says,

"That's stupid. This a stupid idea. what

you should do is you should get a bigger

boat and then you could catch more fish

and then you could go sell it at the

market. The fisherman said, "Why would I

do that?" So, well, once you've sold it

at the market, you could buy some more

boats and you could get your friends to

come and work for you and then they

could catch more fish and you could

start to sell it wholesale. Fisherman

said, "Why would I do that?" So, well

then you could create a canning factory

and you could export it back to the UK

and you could have a huge business.

Fisherman said, "Why would I do that?"

So well then you would be able to retire

and fish a little on a morning, catch

some fish, and then spend the afternoon

with your family. [laughter]

And it's the same lesson as Paulo Qua's

The Alchemist, which is this young boy

goes on a huge big journey and he finds

out the thing that he was looking for

was in the back garden all along. But

that's an unteachable lesson. And the

big lesson behind The Alchemist is

going on a massive journey to end up

back where you started is not the same

as having never left.

And this is what an unteachable lesson

is. You have to go to the top of the

mountain to get up there and go, "Damn

it.

Damn it." Like, I thought that was going

to be the answer. But now that it's not,

I can rid myself of that. I've crossed

it off. And it's so unpopular. It's so

unpopular to talk about this online

because everybody that doesn't have a

thing assumes that the thing will fix

their problems and that the people who

have got there, achieved it, and say

that it didn't are ungrateful.

like, "Oh my god, the thing that I want

and they're just casting it away." Like,

how dare you? How dare you say that the

thing that I know I want isn't the

answer to my problems.

And yet, reliably,

everybody that gets there says it's not

the answer.

It's very true. I was thinking back to

all the goals that I wrote in my diary

at 18 years old, and then it's no

surprise that that I have none of those

things now. They're all like material

things and outcomes I was looking for.

Let me give you another one. A great

question to reflect on. Knowing what I

know now,

what advice would I give myself 12

months ago?

Do you know what mine would be? Mine

would be around it would be about around

prioritization.

It would really be around the saying no.

Like [clears throat] we we don't really

teach it goes back to what you're saying

about adding and subtracting, but my

life would be much better if I was

even 10% better at saying no to things.

>> Mhm.

>> It would be so much better. I'd be so

much more s upside isn't like 10%

upside. It's like 50 100% upside because

the compounding force of focus.

>> Okay. So that's what advice you would

have given yourself 12 months ago

knowing what you know now.

>> Yeah.

>> Guess what?

>> Well, it's almost certainly what you

need to hear right now.

[snorts]

>> The big problems are the big problems.

In the same way that you've got the feat

that you had a decade ago, the big

drivers psychologically for you tend to

be the same throughout your life. Uh, I

put other people's happiness ahead of

mine. Maybe that showed up when I was a

child and I didn't speak up to mom when

I felt upset because I was worried that

it would upset her. Maybe that happened

when I got into my first job and I

didn't advocate for myself when my boss

was treating me poorly. Maybe that

happens when I get into a relationship

and I'm scared of making my needs known

to my partner because I'm worried that

they're going to reject me or think

lesser of me. When it comes to my child,

I'm terrified to discipline them because

I need their love and I don't want them

to make them upset. This is a single

trend that's occurring throughout your

life and all of the time. One of the

most common questions that people ask is

what would you tell yourself 10 years

ago? Great question to ask. Not because

it's trit, but because it is almost

always the very same thing that you need

to hear right now.

>> What would you have said it 12 months

ago? [sighs]

>> Stop working so hard.

>> Stop working. Take a day off. Take a day

off. Take a day off per week. Put your

phone down. Put your phone down. go

outside, touch some grass, and it's the

same thing now. It's the exact same

thing now.

>> Do you think you're going to accomplish

it? [laughter]

>> I don't know. I don't know, man. I mean,

you know, I'm trying. I'm trying. But

behavioral design, I I've got better.

The one thing that I can say and the

beautiful thing about the end of your um

review, there are some resolutions

which I decided on a decade ago that I

still do now. And I think that's really

cool. So when I'm faced with the

opportunity to plan because I gave

myself a little bit of space, right? And

it never happened. Very few of the

habits that randomly appeared in the

middle of July are ones that I've stuck

with and I really care about. Bad ones

maybe. I maybe accumulated bad habits in

the middle of July, but most of the ones

that I really love that are very

conscious that are aligned with where I

want to go, they're ones that I

consciously designed, right? They're

ones that were done purposefully and

that's always been around a review

period. So, yeah, end of the year is not

special. When else you going to do it,

right? When else are you going to do it?

But yeah, 12 months ago and and 10 years

ago, I was doing the same thing.

Different industry, running nightclubs,

chill out, take a day off. So, what is

this annual review template that I have

in front of me?

>> At the end of each year, you need to

have some sort of a format. Uh, if

anyone wants to go and download it, they

can go to chriswilx.com/re.

It's totally free. They can just copy

and paste it into their notes app of

choice and then fill it in. I realized

that this big question of it's the end

of the year and I need to look back on

it. I want to uh reflect on what went

well and badly and I want to plan my

goals. without a a structure, you're

just like cast out a drift, freewheeling

everywhere, and you have no idea what to

do. So, there's a bunch of questions.

Stuff like, "How has this year gone?

What went well? What went badly? And

why? What lessons did I learn? What

habit or system accounted for most of my

success? What are the most valuable ways

that I spend my time? How can I find

more time for this?" There's a section

for memories. What was the best

surprise, best meal, coolest new

experience, my favorite new city, my

favorite new friend? What was my

favorite day or my most intense day? Was

the best sex I had? What's my favorite

quote and song and artist? And then

there's a plan. What would I do this

year if I wanted to make 85-year-old me

miserable? What are the things I do to

make my day go great?

What do I think is productive that

isn't?

What is productive that I don't realize?

Those are two big ones.

>> Mhm.

And then there's some final thoughts.

What would have to have happened by the

end of next year to look back and

consider it a success? Who do I need to

become for the next chapter of my life

to go the way that I want? Knowing what

I know now, what advice would I give

myself 12 months ago? So for the people

that are frantically taking notes, they

can just go to chriswallex.com/re. And

this is this is available for free.

>> You mentioned there that goals you set

10 years ago are still some of your most

important today.

>> Mhm.

>> What are those goals that you cherish

the most? Habits, goals that you cherish

the most that you you set out to

accomplish 10 years ago. So, I reflected

last year on the highest ROI resolutions

that I've ever done. And what I think

would be cool would be if people put the

single best return on investment res re

resolution that they've ever done in the

comments cuz that will create maybe the

biggest repository of the highest value

New Year's resolutions that anybody's

ever had and the best ones will get

updated and the bad ones will be heavily

criticized in the replies. So, that

could be kind of cool. Okay, so that was

an instruction which means if you're

listening right now, leave a comment

below with the resolution you set

yourself at any point in the past that

returned the most for you in any in any

area of your life.

>> You love it the most.

>> And if you agree with someone's, please

hit the like button on their comment,

too. And this should create, as Chris

says, a repository of the most

impactful, highest ROI resolutions.

>> I think that's cool, dude. I want to do

it. I want to know what everyone else's

big resolutions are. So, I'll I'll give

you mine. Okay. No phone in the bedroom

at night. charge it outside.

>> Interesting.

>> It's an instant 15% quality of life

increase.

>> Why?

>> Because when you start your day, if you

use your phone as your alarm, you roll

over, you turn the alarm off, and

immediately you're looking at your

phone. You haven't got up, you haven't

got moving, you're not hydrated, you're

not seeing sunlight in your eyes, you

are

hit in the face by the world telling you

what's happening as opposed to you

having a tiny little microcosm of peace,

this little oasis for you. Now, I get

it. People that have got young kids are

hit in the face by the children, not by

the phone. But even if you do, adding

the phone and the scroll and everything

else on top, that means you're not

present with the kids. So, even if the

kids are a problem, you don't need to

have the phone in there. You wake up, it

means that you're always on the other

side. The world is happening to you.

You're not happening to the world. When

you go to bed on a nighttime, you're

going to be using your phone before you

go to sleep, which means that you're

going to cut into your sleep time.

you're going to be uh in an environment

digitally that's going to make yourself

feel horrendous. It's not good. It's not

good for sleep. Whether it's the blue

light, there's a little bit of research

that seems to say that it's not the blue

light so much as it is the scroll sort

of dopamine trigger adrenal intermittent

schedule reward thing that that's the

the main issue of what's going on. But

it also means if you can't sleep, you

know, you can just roll over and pick

your phone up and now you're two hours

into a YouTube scroll hole. That's who

you truly are. By the way, people think

that who you are is, you know, your

journal entries, your diary entries. No,

no. Who you truly are are the videos

that you watch on YouTube between 10

p.m. and 12:00 p.m. at night when you

can't sleep. That's who you really are.

So, getting your phone and putting it

outside of the bedroom is no cost.

There's no reason to not do it. The only

reason to not do it is somebody needs to

ring you or something like that. I get

it. Maybe you've got kids that are out

late and you need to make sure that

they're okay in case some sort of

catastrophe occurs. Really, there are

very few excuses to not have it outside.

Radio alarm clocks have existed for

forever. Buy a radio alarm clock. Take

your phone cable now and put it in the

kitchen or put it in the living room or

something or put it on the other side of

the room, right? Cuz you don't want to

wake up and charge on your phone. The

it's the single biggest improves quality

of sleep. It means that your mornings

are better. It means that your nights

are better. It means you're less

distracted. It means you spend less time

on your phone. you're forced to do

something even tiny bit more productive

like watch Netflix or read a book or

talk to your partner. It's interesting

because I was thinking about this

through a four quadrant graph

>> drawing a diagram

>> where [laughter] I'll throw it up on the

screen please and make it look better

editing team because this nobody's going

to be able this is not coherent but on

one axis you've got things that are low

effort and on the other axis you've got

things that are high return and this is

right up in the top right which is like

very low effort high return habit yeah

which is probably where one should aim

most but I imagine a lot of us are

aiming at like high effort low return

>> uh morning walk every day

>> okay morning walk slightly higher effort

>> uh The research around this is is

fantastic. Humans obviously pushed this

a lot. Morning sunlight in your eyes,

even if you don't have the sun. Even if

you're somewhere dark and cold and wet,

doesn't matter. Getting up and doing uh

ambulation, so walking through an

environment while your eyes scan left

and right seems to tune down your fear

response. It makes uh your amygdala just

a little bit more calm. So regardless of

whether if there's sunlight, fantastic,

that'll be even better. 5 minutes, 10

minutes. And I know people have got

structural limitations. This is me

assuming that you've got like 20 minutes

on a morning that you could slot this

into. And if you're not waking up with

your phone in your hand, that probably

is the 20 minutes, right? Little walk,

bit of fresh air, just get up, put your

shoes on, get going, just get moving.

You don't need to think. You don't need

to do anything at all. Don't need to

brush your teeth. Get up and go.

Probably need to get to the bathroom,

actually. Get up and go. Uh, no caffeine

within 90 minutes of waking. Just push

your caffeine a little bit later. It

seems like the adenosine system isn't

dominant during the first 90 minutes of

the day. Your adrenal system is.

>> So adenosine is the the receptors that

deal with caffeine and tightness.

>> And tightness. Exactly. And caffeine

binds to it and it stops you from

feeling tired. Salt act on your adrenal

system. So if you use some sort of

electrolyte drink first thing in the

morning, that will help to get that

moving. But the main reason for this,

regardless of the research, most people

have a 100 pm slump, feel a little bit

tired. And I think if you just push that

caffeine a little bit later, just see if

you can hold on. When you wake up, you

should be okayish, just the natural

cortisol, you've gone for a little walk,

you know, you're here we are, the day

has begun. Do you really need a c a

coffee within 20 minutes of waking?

That's what most people's first thing

is. Just see what happens. Test it. See

what happens if you push it back by 90

minutes and see how you feel. At least

for me, I know that that works well.

No alcohol for 6 months. This is a big

one. This is much more high effort for a

lot of people, even people that don't

drink that much. Uh because a lot of the

parties and things that you attend, are

not superbly fun. And some people use

alcohol in order to make their family or

the wedding or the birthday a little bit

more comfortable.

>> A social lubricant.

>> Correct. Yeah, of course. But if you

take alcohol out for about six months,

what it forces you to do is think, do I

really want to go to that party? I'm

actually having to anesthetize myself of

the people that I'm around. Like, if you

can only bear to be around your friends

when you're drinking, that's probably

not a good indication. And if your

friends only want you to be around them

when you're drinking, they're not

friends, they're drinking partners.

So, I think alcohol is a a big qu I just

like it. It just makes me have more fun.

All Hey, I get it. But I think if people

look at it closely, they realize that

they're using alcohol as a bit of a

crutch. They're using it to bolster

themselves in a way. What's interesting

is it's one of those areas where you

don't understand the hidden cost until

you really give it up for a while. And

and I think about my own relationship

with drinking and I stopped drinking at

30 years old. I'm now 33. And I had just

drank because I just drank. I'd never

ran the experiment of just giving it up

for a while. And I and then at like I

don't know maybe I was at 31. I thought,

you know, I'll have a drink again

>> because now I could really AB test it.

I'd had a year of not drinking. Decided

to have a drink again.

>> It ruined three days of my life. I had a

couple of glasses of wine, didn't get

drunk. It ruined three days of my life

because of the the domino effect it

caused. So it meant that I got worse

sleep that night and then because I got

worse sleep that night. I ate more

poorly the the next day because my my

dopamine system or whatever the cortisol

system was all messed up

>> and then I I podcasted worse. I didn't

go to the gym the the day after that

that day or the day after because of

that because I felt really bad. I then

slept worse and I could track all of

this on my weight. Hashtag ad

hashtagsponsor hashtag investor

whatever.

>> Bye.

>> Yeah. And I was like, "Oh my god, those

three glasses of wine had this hidden

domino effect that I must have been

living with for my whole life."

>> Dude, so many people want to build

habits. They want to build meditation

routine. They want to go to the gym more

consistently. They want to improve their

eating habits. They don't realize that

the thing that's stopping them from

doing that is sat at the bottom of the

glass of wine that they have four nights

a week. It's tough. Some people are able

to do it and they don't mind. The

costbenefit ratio for some people is

great. I'm just saying try just try try

six months. The reason that you need to

put an end date on it is that you have

it's like running a race where you know

that there's a finish line. If there's

no finish line, it's really hard to run

the race. How are you motivating

yourself to get there? I think that 90

days would be the absolute minimum. 30

days isn't long enough. You need longer,

right? And especially given that the

hardest bit is the start, which means

that you've paid all of the pain at the

very beginning to not actually get any

of the benefits of this being my new

habit.

>> Do it [clears throat] with an

accountability buddy. Do it with your

partner. Say, "Hey, I listened to those

two British idiots talk about how not

drinking might be a good idea." Why

don't we do that? Why don't we try going

sober until July? You haven't missed the

summer, right? The summer's just about

to kick in. So, if you think, "Oh, I

can't wait to get back to drinking." You

can have a a beer in a beer garden.

a huge proportion of people will not

want to go back to drinking. They'll do

it, take time off, get into it, and

realize

I actually don't like this. I love the

fact I got more

reward from building good habits, from

now having a meditation practice, from

now getting up on time, from being able

to go to the gym more. I've become more

dependent on that than I ever was on the

alcohol. This is an idea you when we

talk about habits and when we read these

habit books, we we're often aiming at

like the ninth domino in a set of

dominoes.

>> And I was just thinking then like the

conversation probably needs to start

with what are like the foundational

things. What is the first domino?

Because we know from science that what I

choose to eat is heavily impacted by my

hormone balance today and my hormone

balance is impacted by my sleep, my

emotional regulation, all these things.

A lot of people aim at domino number

nine and think, "Oh, we'll change that

one." Having no idea that actually this

is downstream from a set of other

foundational decisions. And you know,

even as someone that sits here with

scientists and experts all the time, if

my like core state isn't good,

the chance that I'm going to pick the

right thing or go to the gym is

extremely low. Being smart is basically

pointless unless you're at peace.

Like [clears throat] any amount of

intelligence can be overridden by ego or

insecurity or immorality or bad

incentives or impatience or poor sleep.

>> Yeah, sleep is, as far as I can see,

just it's the the pebble at the top of

the avalanche. It's the gateway drug to

everything else being horrendous. Your

caffeine use is impacting your sleep.

Your phone use is impacting your sleep.

Your alcohol in an evening time is

impacting your sleep. If you think that

you drink in order to go to sleep,

you're not sleeping. You're sedating

yourself. Okay. So, if we can sort the

sleep out, how many other things open

up? But you don't sort the sleep out.

You sort the caffeine intake out and you

sort the nighttime phone use out and you

sort the drinking out and then oh my

god, I've got all of this extra

willpower. The thing that I thought was

the issue, which was I kind of always

feel a bit tired and sluggish on the

morning or I always want to eat salty

foods around midday or I always, you

know, always just can't think too

straight for the first couple of hours.

It's like the problem might be hiding at

the bottom of the glass.

>> We think the cause is actually a

symptom. I just noticed this because you

know when I I changed a couple of core

foundational things like exercise and

sleep, everything became everything was

lubricated.

>> What's your highest ROI New Year's

resolutions?

>> Oh, my highest ROI New Year's resolution

was actually a change in a previous

resolution. So my previous resolution in

2017 was I'm going to go to the gym

every day.

Ended up being a terrible resolution,

>> a horrendous resolution. [laughter]

>> Yeah. So 2017 it was go to the gym every

day and I got about four or five months

in, I missed a day, the resolution's

done because it was a it was a

completable resolution in an area of my

life where I didn't I need an

incompletable resolution. So 2018, my

resolution became consistency in the

gym.

>> And this is when everything changed

because consistency is a a goal I get a

shot at every day irrespective of what

happened yesterday.

>> And I've got the rule. I've got the

rule. Let me give you the rule.

>> Okay.

>> This is from all of the habit stuff.

James Cle has been on my show. I think

he's been on your show too.

>> Yeah, he has.

>> Yeah. Uh best habit book of all time,

Atomic Habits. Of all of the things,

there's only two that have really,

really, really stuck. This is the best

rule when it comes to habits. Never miss

two days in a row. Like you are not

going to be able to go to the gym every

day. There will be one day when an

absolute catastrophe occurs. You ate

some dodgy sushi last night.

You can't go. But what you have is

one missed day is an error. Two missed

days is the start of a new habit.

And it alleviates this all or nothing

mentality that we all have. If you put a

packet of biscuits in front of me and

you, we say, "You can have none of them

or you can have all of them." Easy. Tell

me to have two of them. [ __ ] you, dude.

I'm not going to have two. No one has

two biscuits, right? You have all of the

biscuits or you have none of the

biscuits. And that's kind of humans are

absolutist creatures. Like think in

extremes.

>> Yeah. Going to be super super dialed in

on my diet and it's going to be great

and I'm going to get up and do my

meditation and do the rest or I'm going

to go full DGEN mode and I'm partying

and it's a beaather and so on and so

forth. Like there is no middle ground

really with this and that means that

small errors can snowball into complete

uh demolitions of the habit. But if you

just think okay at some point this year

I'm going to miss it. And the rule is if

I missed it yesterday I have to do it

today. And that alleviates your issue

which was I cranked it for the first

couple of months and then one day came

in and I thought h and then the second

day and then I thought well this is just

me now.

>> The other trap that I've noticed in that

is one of my friends had great success

with a new habit with going to the gym

for like three or four months. He he

messages us in the group chat. He says I

finally cracked it. I finally figured

out how to do this. And I said to him at

the time, I said, "Listen, mate. Like

the best the best thought I've ever had

that's made my habits be consistent is

the realization that you never crack

it." And actually thinking about the day

when I fall off the horse and what my

strategy is for getting back on the

horse. Like being really really

cognizant of the fact that at some point

I'm going to eat the sushi and it's

going to [ __ ] up my belly or [laughter]

or I'm going to be on a flight from

Australia and I'm going to land and it's

going to be midnight. And like having a

strategy to get back on the horse and

this just deep belief that you never

crack any habit

>> has been the single most important thing

for me being consistent because when it

happens and I feel unmotivated and that

guilt can creep in and say you [ __ ]

it. I have a I was expecting this.

>> Yes. Of course it's not a a bug it's a

feature.

>> Yeah.

>> This was the price of entry. It's the

cost of doing business of trying to do

behavior change that it's not always

going to work. Mhm.

>> Um, another one, another great uh

resolution, 10-minute walk after every

meal.

>> Interesting.

>> Huge, huge ROI, dude. Crazy. So, it's

called a postprandial walk. Um, and what

it does is it helps to regulate glucose.

It gets your blood sugar moving. Your uh

stomach because of the contrlateral

movement of how your arms and your legs

work, the muscles actually cross across

your stomach, which helps you to digest

food. You know, you have a huge big

meal, you're having a great

conversation, and you sit there and

you're like, "Uh, I mean, this

conversation's so great, but I feel

awful. This this sucks." You just after

you go out for dinner, uh, if you got a

lunch break from work, eat your food,

10-minute little walk. Again, I

challenge people to do it and not say

that it makes them feel really good. You

go for dinner, you're with a friend,

you're out with a partner, you're

meeting somebody for the first time.

Say, "Hey, do you want to why don't we

have a little stroll?" Sometimes it's

gonna be freezing outside, whatever. You

know, do what you can. Let's go for a

little stroll. Makes a huge difference.

Huge difference.

>> What about matters of productivity?

>> Do you think much about this? Because

again, this time of year, people are

thinking about procrastination,

productivity. They're trying to get more

done. They're trying not to doom scroll

so much, be on Netflix, waste time. And

I think a lot of the guilt does come

from feeling like we're unproductive.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. There's a wonderful

idea called productivity dysmorphia. So,

it's the inability to see your own

success.

It's like uh to acknowledge the volume

of your own output. So it sits at the

intersection of burnout, imposttor

syndrome, and anxiety.

It's you think of it like ambitions

alter ego. Basically like the pursuit of

productivity spurs us to do more while

robbing us of the ability to savor any

of the successes that we achieve along

the way. So first off, people are not

particularly good judges of how

productive they are. I think so many

people are whipping themselves into

submission saying you're not doing

enough because in the past that

motivated them to do more.

>> Yeah. And after a while you have to

accept I'm I'm doing quite a lot. And if

you were an athlete on a sports team and

your coach only ever pointed at you when

you made a bad play, you wouldn't feel

particularly motivated by that. But a

lot of people have this sense of

productivity debt. They wake up every

day feeling as if they're already

behind. And only if they dominate their

entire day perfectly can they drag

themselves back up to some minimum level

of acceptable output. And only then can

they go to sleep that night without

feeling like a loser. This means that

you your set point is loss and the best

thing that you can do if you crush the

day is get to a draw. You never win. And

then there's this sort of weird drill

sergeant in the back of your mind that's

saying, "All right, you can have a

little bit of a break now, but just so

you know, soon as you wake up in the

morning, it's all going to happen

again." And you know, I'm speaking to a

very particular type of of mindset here

that there is a huge cohort of people on

the internet who do need David Gogggins

screaming in their face, telling them to

go harder and sort their life out.

The sort of people that listen to your

show and listen to Modern Wisdom are

probably not in that camp.

>> Do you know what's surprising? I am in

that camp. I'm in the camp of

productivity dysmorphia.

>> Mhm. Of course you are. Why is that

surprising? [laughter] Look at what

you've built. How could you not do that

with if you were seeing how much you

did?

>> I can't really think of many days. And

just for context, when I wake up in the

morning till, you know, 2 2 a.m. at

night, I'm working. But I can't think of

many days or really none none come to

mind where I've I've got in bed and

thought you were productive today.

[ __ ]

>> crushed it.

>> You met the standard

>> productivity debt.

>> Yeah.

>> You woke up feeling like you're already

behind

>> 100%. Because of yesterday and the week

before and the month before and the

to-do list.

>> You see you see your own shortfalls from

a front row seat, right? And this is one

of the curses of people who have big

dreams, goals for themselves. the the

size of their goals is always greater

than their ability to deliver them. And

we assume that by having very very very

high standards for ourselves that that's

what what is it? Um shoot for the stars

and even if you don't get it, you'll end

up on the moon. Something like that.

>> Yeah. Whatever. Um that's great for a

while and it's very good at the

beginning of your journey,

>> but after a while I think you just need

to give yourself a [ __ ] break, dude.

Like people are

destroying themselves in this perpetual

sense of not enoughness. They're always

chasing the next thing. So that's all of

that is for me to say that people uh

want productivity, desire productivity.

I'm just trying to say you're probably

working real hard as it is. That being

said, how much do I think about

productivity and how can we like twist

the the knife a little bit more to give

people some some tools?

Best question to ask yourself. Uh, if I

could only achieve one thing today,

start of every day, if I could only

achieve one thing today, what would that

be? You're only allowed to do one thing.

And it's the big thing. It's usually the

scary thing. It's usually the thing that

you probably don't want to do. How many

times does someone go and clean the

cupboard in the kitchen that hasn't been

touched for 6 months? Rearrange. I'll

rearrange all of the plates because they

don't want to have that conversation

with their boss because they don't want

to face that particular piece of work

which is like big and scary and I don't

really know how to tackle it, how to

begin. you will do everything that

doesn't need to be done in order to

avoid the one thing that does. It's

because it's a big scary task that

people will endure months, years,

decades of misery to avoid a couple of

days of pain. And that makes sense. It's

a good trade in some ways, but over time

you're going to accumulate an awful lot

of discomfort.

>> Reminds me of what Nael said when I

interviewed him about procrastination is

the avoidance of discomfort. Um, and he

really said that most of human

motivation is just the avoidance of

discomfort because I I tried to test his

idea. I was like, "What about having

sex? That's surely the pursuit of

pleasure." He was like, "No, you get

horny, which is a form of discomfort and

in order to alleviate it, you go and

have sex where you pursue." But he said,

"All all of our behavior is driven by

discomfort." So, in your example of I've

got a big I've got to start the

manuscript for my new book, but I end up

cleaning the house. It's cuz

>> sounds like a personal example.

>> No, but it is. It's like, you know, I

remember how long I procrastinated on

starting my new book because it's like

being stood at the foot of Mount Everest

starting a book. It's huge.

>> When you think about procrastination,

which is part of pro becoming more

productive,

>> what what in your mind are the causes of

me me avoiding the thing that I should

be doing? As far as I can see, there's

two main reasons for procrastination.

The first one is you don't know what to

do. So, you have this big book in front

of you, but nobody's ever written a

book. they've written a sentence and

then that sentence has accumulated over

time into pages and paragraphs and then

a book appears or you've reviewed a

book, you've looked at the edit, you've

made a decision about the color for the

front cover, but you do what's called a

next action from uh getting things done,

David Allen's productivity strategy.

People want a really really great

productivity strategy. Getting things

done by David Allen is is about as good

as you can get.

You do a next action. So, I'm

procrastinating over a task. What is the

next physical action that I can do that

pushes me toward that goal? I need to

write an email. Well, you better go and

open your email client. Right? If you

don't have your email client open, it is

impossible for you to send the email.

Well, actually, before that, I need to

sit down at my desk. Actually, before

that, I might need to put my pants on.

Okay, pants are on. Hooray. I'm moving.

I'm down at the desk. All right, there

we go. I opened Instagram. [ __ ] Okay,

close Instagram. Email client. That's

the next action. So any bit, what is it

like? Uh completing a marathon is just a

ton of steps one in front of the other.

Like it's just one foot in front of the

other. Do this really really big thing

by breaking it down into small chunks.

That's the first reason in my opinion

for procrastination.

>> Before we move on to the second thing,

it reminds me of something Jordan

Peterson said to me about um why people

don't change their life. He said people

don't change their life because the

first steps to doing so are so embar so

small that it's like embarrassing.

Correct. And he told me the story of a

guy who he was trying to get to change

his life. This person wouldn't leave

their bedroom. Plates stacked to the

ceiling, messy bedroom. And on day one,

he walks in, they put a vacuum cleaner

in there, they do nothing else. Day two,

they come back, they plug it in, nothing

else. Day three, they come back, they

turn it on, nothing else. And by the end

of the 30 days, this guy is out of his

bedroom, his room is clean, and he's out

in out in the world, which he was scared

of. And it always made me think like the

the first step to real change isn't some

great leap which is going to cause huge

cognitive dissonance and discomfort. It

is often so embarrassingly small that we

don't think it's consequential.

>> Yeah.

>> And I think about that with my life all

the time. I'm like actually maybe the

first step here is just like

buying buying a notepad,

>> you know, to start writing my book.

There is definitely a sense that

focusing our attention on a small step

kind of reveals the smallalness of our

lives that like, oh my god, I said that

I I sat down at my desk. like how

pitiful is this really how small I've

become. I should have this big cathedral

of achievements and monumental stuff.

You go, well, yeah, but how do you get

there? We got to lay the first break.

Um, so humility, being humble and uh

compassionate to yourself. Okay, I I I

did a thing today. I went for a walk,

felt like crap. I ate this bad sushi

last night and I, you know, I did one

thing did one thing, one small thing

that moved me toward my goal. So anyway,

>> maybe that's because we never get to see

that first small step. We get to see the

outcome. So if I'm thinking about

becoming a podcaster and following in

your footsteps,

>> I see you've got this [ __ ] digital

screen with where you've got Matthew

McConnA sat in the set of

>> I do

>> his movie and I'm thinking, "Fuck, God,

that's a long [laughter] way to go."

>> Well, the beautiful thing about a lot of

stuff on the internet is that uh it is

archived for the rest of time. So you

can go back and watch my first ever

episode, which is me in my old office

for the nightclub stuff that I did. And

my business partner yelled at me

afterward because I kicked everybody out

so that I could record. And he's like,

"You can't keep doing this. It's not

your studio. It's our office." And it's

a single iPhone and a Blue Yeti USB mic

that looks like a big white dildo. And

it's up and over the top of the desk.

And it's me and a friend from the gym

talking about how we might row the

Atlantic one day.

>> Embarrassing to start there for someone

that's watching you do Matthew McConnA

in a digital screen. It's embarrassing,

>> but also not because that was the first

step. But that wasn't the first step.

The first step was deciding what name it

was going to be and then driving to

Gates Head to buy the Yeti secondhand

from some dude on eBay and that Yeti

went on to do 500 episodes of my podcast

and then we changed to nicer microphones

or something. So everybody's journey

begins embarrassingly small. And I think

just having a little bit of compassion

for yourself, having the humility to go

the first step that I do is going to be

so small that it it almost wouldn't

register on the ledger of

accomplishments. It would be minute

going, okay, that's still a win. First

thing, you don't know what to do. Second

thing, you know what to do, but you

don't know how to do it. So you can sit

down in front of the spreadsheet and you

know that you've got to do a VLOOKUP on

this spreadsheet. We have no idea how to

do a VLOOKUP. What's VLOOKUP? It's some

like some Excel thing that Excel nerds

will know. Um Chat GPT, Google, ring a

boss, ring a friend that is an expert in

Excel. So for me, when I look at my

procrastination, it occurs due to

usually one of two things. Poorly

defined next physical action. I don't

know exactly what the next smallest step

is that moves me toward my goal. I do

know that and I sit down. I don't know

how to do it. Like how do I like if you

don't know how to open a file, you don't

know how to unzip a file. Doesn't matter

how many files you've got in front of

you. If you can't unzip them, you can't

see them. So, okay, I need to learn. Hey

dude, I got this zip file. Where do I go

to get it? Oh. Oh, okay. Thank you. And

then we've got moving. So, it's either a

uh action issue or a skill issue. And

both of those are usually pretty simply

fixed. I was reading your newsletter,

you talk about how some people

procrastinate because they're scared of

what they'll find out about themselves.

>> Mhm.

>> If they try the thing, and I thought

that's so true.

>> Yeah. I mean, if you The upside of never

trying is never having to feel the pain

of failure,

>> right? If you never face that

discomfort, like if I tell myself that

all women are terrible, then I'm excused

of ever having to talk to a woman and as

a result I never have to feel the pain

of rejection. If I tell myself that

everything is [ __ ] or that things will

never get better, I'm excused of ever

having to try anything. It's more

comfortable to get fatalistic and call

it pragmatism. like the cope is framing

hope as pathetic and embarrassing and

optimism as delusion. This is cynicism,

right? Cynicism. And uh the opposite of

that is enthusiasm. Since moving to

America, I've been surrounded by very

enthusiastic people. Americans kind of

have permanent firstline cocaine energy.

[laughter]

[snorts]

And uh I like enthusiasm. I wish I

could, you know, export some of it back

to the UK. You know what I was really

disappointed by? I mean, you featured in

an article recently in a very well-known

British paper. Maybe this came across

your desk or maybe not.

>> No, [laughter] I have no idea.

>> Okay. So, it was uh it was the same week

that the Spotify rap came out. Yeah.

>> And in the top 10 in the world, there's

me, you and J Shetty. There's three

Brits. I think we're punching above our

weight.

>> Yeah. %

>> with regards to this lady who wrote this

article basically said it was a

rejection of our patriotic inheritance

that we were trying to do

self-improvement at scale like whatever

happened to the British stiff upper

lipness where we sort of feel stoically

satisfied in our own loneliness and

misery that's like an almost an exact

quote

>> really

>> yeah it was really it really made me sad

and it made me sad for a few reasons

first stuff. The UK is not exactly

showering itself in glory at the moment.

There is an entire content bucket of

American streamers reacting to news from

the UK and going, "Oh, the downfall of

the UK with the whatever." Whether

that's true or not, the optics aren't

great coming out of the UK at the

moment. And you've got three people who

have done it. I don't know whether Jay

is from workingass, but I'm from as

workingass as workingass can be. I know

that you're like even lower than me

somehow. Congratulations. and wherever

Jay's from, and you've managed to get

these three guys who are genuinely

trying to make the world a better place,

really working hard at it, and your main

takeaway was not during a time where the

UK is kind of eating [ __ ] on the global

stage. Congratulations to three people

who can show young entrepreneurs, people

that want to do personal development,

improve their own lives, that maybe you

can do it, too. And maybe we all got

lucky. I don't know. But it made me real

sad to read that. And this isn't just

that. I was like, it would have been

nice if the the UK like UK press had

backed us and said, "Good on you guys."

But on top of that, it just reminded me

of a a mindset in the UK that

kind of has like Stockholm syndrome for

their own sad moments, for their own

like zero sum like tall poppy thing. And

I really don't like the tall poppy

syndrome in the UK. And uh it made me

sad to to to read that. If I had one

wish for people in the UK and if you're

listening now there's a high possibility

you're in the UK is

lift people up and be positive like clap

for strangers. If someone does something

if someone falls flat on their face in

the pursuit of a big goal clap for them.

Go that was amazing. At least you tried

because their success paves the way for

us all to fail and fall flat on our

face. But right now there's a bit of an

inversion of that. I was in San

Francisco last week and I swear to you

one woman came up to me. She told me

three times she had failed at her

startup. She's now back living with her

mom. And she wore it like a credential

in a badge of honor because in that room

it is.

>> But back home that's a hit piece. That's

[laughter] a hit.

>> Look at this stupid delusional woman who

tried to do this thing. It's evidently

not going to work. How embarrassing.

>> Oh yeah. She she's her employees have

been let go. She owes this money. All

these things. It would be framed as a

negative. And actually when I read the

thing the the Spotify top 10 thing. Yes,

we're all doing self-improvement stuff.

But for me, that's kind of beside the

point. We we built media businesses and

there's not a lot of in terms of

competing with America and competing

with the rest of the world. It's crazy

that three British entrepreneurs managed

to contend with the United States, the

home of media, more capital, more brand

partners, more access to talent,

everything is here it seems. And for for

three Brits to do that, I was so proud.

I I actually don't need anyone to tell

me like to be like I was so proud of