Studies showed that if you are flossing,

you can reduce your risk of dementia by

nearly half, which is quite impressive.

So I started to research the brain much

more and it made me realize this link

with the brain and the gut is absolutely

crucial and how that influences many

things in our brain. For example, things

like depression, mood changes, fatigue

and energy. But for 40 years, we've been

going down the wrong path. We've got so

distracted by treating the brain as

something so different to the rest of

the body. So, what do we do about it if

we want to have optimally healthy

brains? So, Professor Tim Spectre is one

of the top 100 most cited scientists

worldwide, and he's back to reveal the

critical role our gut plays with our

physical and mental health,

>> our cognition, and the prevention of

chronic disease.

>> We can dramatically improve our lives

and our health just by making the right

food choices. And I've got eight rules

for gut health which work for all

health. So, first thing, pivot your

protein. Then there's quality, not

calories. The whole idea of assessing

food by calories is wrong. Calorie

restricted diets have been shown for the

vast majority of people not to work.

Your hunger signals go up. And hunger is

the main driver of obesity. And we'll

get into the other rules.

>> And what about coffee?

>> So drinking between two and five cups of

coffee reduces your risk of heart

disease by about 25%.

>> And then what do you think of almonds?

>> So there's lots of studies showing that

they're good for your cognition and

mood. And what about your views on GLP1s

like Zen?

>> I think from a public health

perspective, they're going to transform

medicine and we ought to be taking it

much more seriously. But I've got two

real worries about them. My first worry

is that

Listen, my my team gave me a script that

they asked me to read, but I'm just

going to ask you um in the nicest way I

possibly can. Thank you first and

foremost for choosing to subscribe to

this channel. It is um it's been one of

the most incredible crazy years of my

life. I never could have imagined. I had

so many dreams in my life, but this was

not one of them. And the very fact that

these conversations have resonated with

you and you've given me so much feedback

is something I will always be

appreciative of. And I almost carry away

a sort of burden of uh responsibility to

pay you back. And the favor I would like

to ask from you today is to subscribe to

the channel if you um would be so

obliged. It's completely free to do

that. Roughly about 47% of you that

listen to this channel frequently

currently don't subscribe to this

channel. So if you're one of those

people, please come and join us. Hit the

subscribe button. It's the single free

thing you can do to make this channel

better. And every subscriber sort of

pays into this show and allows us to do

things bigger and better and to push

ourselves even more. And I will not let

you down if you hit the subscribe

button. I promise you. And if I do,

please do unsubscribe, but I promise I

won't. Thank you.

Professor Tim Spectre.

Who is um who's this lovely lady and how

does she tie into the work you're

focused on right now?

>> That's my lovely mom, June, who is still

with us, age 93. Wow. but for the last

seven years has been in a in a home in

London after suffering a stroke and uh

then developing dementia

and so um yeah that's um changed

some of my views on life and uh she was

really pro- uh euthanasia and signed

every paper possible that if this ever

happened to her you know she would be

able to end her life but Unfortunately,

that didn't come true and under UK law,

it's not possible to to help her in that

because she lost capability and mobility

very early. So, she's still there, but

she doesn't no longer recognizes me. And

um it's it's a reminder of you know our

potential

future life and uh how so many so many

people in the are going to end up with

dementia that wasn't the case 50 years

ago. If I can do something to reverse

this epidemic of dementia, then that's

really motivating for me and in a way

one reason why I've started to research

the brain much more than I I've done in

the past.

>> So, is dementia

increasing or is it that we know of it

more now? So, we're better at diagnosing

it.

>> It's increasing for a number of reasons.

So some of it is the age demographic. So

we're living longer,

>> but we're not living healthier. So our

health span hasn't really increased, but

our lifespan has. We're good at keeping

elderly people alive longer. That's

definitely true, but there's also stats

to show that it is increasing even when

you take that into account. So that more

people are developing uh dementia than

ever before, even when you account for

the demographics. and those other

changes. So, it is a major worry and I

think it's one of the the major fears

that all of us have. You know, obviously

you've got cancer is one fear, but I

think the other really bad one is ending

up with dementia because nearly everyone

knows somebody with dementia.

>> Did this inspire you to go get your own

brain scanned?

>> Yes, I'd had, as you know, problems with

my brain before. I'd had a mini stroke

back in 2011

and

never really worked out the causes of

that. I knew I had some white spots in

my brain. I wanted to see if they were

still there, if there were any signs of

that. And at the same time, I wanted to

get a checkup to see was I likely to end

up like my mother or not. And did I have

the genetic form of the disease? Was it

a straightforward Alzheimer's or was it

more the vascular type that my mother

had or probably has?

And so yeah, partly it was motivated out

of my cur my medical curiosity and

partly for self-interest.

>> And what did you find? I went to this

specialized clinic in London that does

these dementia screens, so I know if I

had the risk genes for Alzheimer's,

which luckily I don't. Um, but I do have

bad genes for diabetes and heart

disease, which predispose you to the

vascular side of things.

>> What's vascular dementia?

>> There's several types of dementia, but

the two main ones are Alzheimer's, where

you get these protein folds in the

brain. you get local inflammation, these

protein tangles, and that then causes

these damage to the bits of the brain.

That's a very specific type of dementia.

Then you get more generalized dementia,

which is usually called vascular

dementia, where you're just getting

clogging up of the arteries supplying

the brain just like you do in the heart.

And that knocks off other bits of the

brain

uh in a slightly more random way than

happens uh with Alzheimer's. Slightly

less predictable, but that accounts for

about a third of all dementia is this

vascular time. I'm predisposed to it

because after my this weird episode in

2011, my blood pressure went up. So

anyone with high blood pressure

generally has slightly stiffer arteries

than most people and that impacts the

arteries in your brain. So, you are

slightly more at risk. And with these

diabetes genes that I've got, thanks to

my grandmother, I am more at risk of

vascular dementia. And so, what I wanted

to do was learn about that in order to

optimize all the things I could do to

postpone it or prevent it as much as

possible.

>> Over the last 5 years or so, your

interest in the brain has increased.

What what is the the the variance in

your views of the brain now versus five

years ago before you started doing

research and getting interested in it?

>> I think I saw the brain as a rather

distinct organ

that

uh was the domain of psychiatry and you

know perhaps gerontologists who look at

dementia that wasn't really part of the

major picture and certainly wasn't

within my domain of expertise. I think I

still believe in this the cartesian view

of the difference between the mind and

the brain the mind and the body

that these two separate entities and

you've got this barrier between them

this blood brain barrier that was really

like an iron curtain. So I I was

interested in it but I didn't realize

this huge connection I've now discovered

really that um has really excited me and

I think the thing that triggered it was

some of our own experiments which

happened a bit by chance. So when we

started Zoey, we did a number of trials

and we gave our participants apps so

they could report how they felt. In

every study we did, we started getting

back these incredible results of people

saying when they were when they started

the Zoey diet, for example, the first

thing they noticed was their mood and

energy improved and their hunger uh got

less. And that was before any blood

changes, before any gut changes. And so

initially we slightly discounted it, but

it happened in every study we did. We'd

looked at the menopause. And again, the

most dramatic change when people were

improving their gut health through food

with menopausal symptoms was was on mood

and energy. Because originally I'm a

rheatologist uh and was really

interested in inflammation. I'd never

put that connection between what was

inflammation in the body and in your

joints with what was going on in your

brain. And suddenly the latest science

when I'm going away you doing my reading

is making it all so so much clearer.

It's it's really become,

you know, this this new idea of things

like depression, things like mood

changes, things like fatigue and energy,

which I hadn't really thought about as

in a way a malfunction of the brain,

responding the wrong way to signals from

the rest of the body. But it it suddenly

all comes into focus about how holistic

the whole system is and how really the

brain is just another organ. And this

link with the gut is absolutely crucial

because that's where it gets most of its

information from. You know, we have this

vagus nerve that goes from our gut to

our brain, the longest nerve in the

body. And 80% of the signals go gut to

brain. Only 20% go brain to gut.

So all these things together have just

made me realize how important what going

into our gut is, our diet is, and how

that influences many things in our brain

that I didn't put together before. And I

don't think most most of the medical

world have put together before. And it

we've all got the brain on a pedestal, I

should say. You know, we we think it's

this some this unique thing that's

driving our bodies, but actually it's

not. It's just responding to them just

like any other organ.

It made me reflect on the days that I've

had like good and bad moods and how

how much it's linked to my diet in the

preceding couple of days like how I

feel. If I sleep is such a big

exacerbating factor in how I feel, but

if I'm slept and I still don't feel

good, it's typically linked I think to

something I've been eating or something

I've eaten very recently maybe in the

last 24 hours. So when you talk about

how there's this holistic picture and

how my brain might be I think I can't

remember the words you used but but it

sounded like you said my brain is

receiving signals from other parts of my

body and it's kind of malfunctioning

based on those signals which is causing

depression, anxiety, bad moods,

whatever. That I think is really

interesting because people think of mood

as a separate thing. We don't think of

mood connected to my gut.

>> No, it's it's your own fault. You're in

a bad mood. Why are you in a bad mood?

>> Something happened.

>> Yeah.

>> Externally. So someone cut you off in

traffic or whatever it might be. all

these studies, you know, we've got four

studies now where we're changing

people's diets and they're going,

they've been on generally bad diets,

we've moved them to good diets that mood

and particularly energy levels,

the first thing they noticed, they're

improving. And they never linked, just

like you, their mood and energy levels

with things like diet. It was just

inherent. They thought, "Oh, it's just

cuz I'm, you know, my life's or

whatever it is." An extreme example is

some families we've been working with

doing a channel 4 series at the moment

called What Not to Eat and we visit four

families and they're terrible diets and

we transform them, give them a gut

friendly

makeover diet. Look at them after 6

weeks. The first thing they all notice

is their mood and energy is dramatically

increased. They were napping all the

time. They were asleep all the time

during the day.

>> What were they eating?

>> Crap food. Highly processed crap food

and snacking late at night. Bars of

chocolate, you know, sodas, chicken

nuggets, pot noodles, rubbish food,

right? So, these were more worse than

your average, but still there's millions

of people like that doing this. And they

had no clue that it was linked to them

feeling terrible and tired all the time.

And again the first thing that improved

was what was going on in their brains

and they suddenly felt alert again. And

once people realize there's connection

then in a way you'd have this feedback

loop to say okay I'm not going to eat

this food you know because I know

it's making me feel so sick. But until

you make that connection you're not

going to know. you'll just be in this

constant state saying, well, you know,

I'm just overweight, that's why I'm

tired. Uh, or I'm not exercising, that's

why I'm tired. There's a bit of a

vicious cycle here with eating something

bad, then being low energy and sleeping

all day, not feeling good. So, you eat

something bad and the cycle continues.

Cuz if I don't feel good, I probably

want to eat a chocolate bar. In our Zoe

studies, we found that people who had a

bad night's sleep desperately craved

some sugary crap in the morning. Right?

It's the first you don't go for a

healthy breakfast. It's like there's

some little evil thing in your brain

saying, "Um, okay, I need a quick fix. I

don't care about the rest of the day.

Just get me through the next hour."

>> Do you know Do you know what that I had

someone posit on my podcast that um that

was because your body's basically under

a form of stress. So from an

evolutionary perspective, if if you're

waking up in the middle of the night for

some reason or you weren't sleeping

properly, it might be because you were

under threat. So your brain wants

energy. So there a lot of studies now

that stress, which we thought of as a

sort of external

psychological event, is actually a

physiological one and is actually

driving inflammation. It's directly

affecting your immune system, which is

then sending these signals to your brain

to change your behavior. And this I

think is very much the heart of what

seems to be happening, you know, in

depression.

What I've been finding out is that it's

detecting a change in the immune system.

It's switching on to the stress mode.

And the stress mode then triggers these

different behaviors in your brain. And

very often it's not, you know, real

stress. I mean most of the stresses we

get it every day are not like our

ancestors had. Uh we're not being chased

by wild animals or um being burnt out of

our village, you know. So the and what

really interested me was this whole link

between what happens when uh you have a

vaccination. During Zoe, we looked at a

million people's responses to the if you

remember the the FISA and uh vaccine and

the SK vaccine. And what was really

interesting was that uh people were

actually depressed during that time. So

you had about 24 hours of depression

which was mimicking

um a more constant threat. And this

suddenly brought home this idea that you

can trigger depression through a little

shift in your immune system. There's a

really growing theory about people who

have long-term depression is that these

their immune changes are switched on so

that they're getting the equivalent of

this constant tickling of the immune

system by a vaccine. So that to me is

was was a really important thing because

I I have vaccines. I have regular

vaccines. I'm big believer in vaccines,

but they do make you feel a little bit

down. That makes sense cuz your blood

tests will show a spike in your proteins

for inflammation. Your immune system's

kicking in. That sends signals to your

brain. Your brain says, "Okay, I looks

like I've got an illness coming here."

That illness behavior in some people

then gets carried on

for months or years. And this is now

developing this whole new theory of of

why uh people are depressed which isn't

the old theory of it's just due to a

chemical imbalance. It's actually

your body responding abnormally to a you

know a normal response. It's it thinks

it's under attack. Your brain thinks

it's under attack. It should then shut

down and protect you. This I find

fascinating that we're now linking so

much to the immune system and it's the

immune basis of things of mental and

brain diseases is becoming incredibly

important. I'm sure you've talked on the

podcast a lot about inflamming and the

role of controlling the immune system

because if your immune system is out of

control you inflammation levels are high

your body can't repair itself. So aging

happens faster in the brain. All of

these things are pointing to

inflammation being crucial to

everything, but particularly in all

aspects of brain health. And when I went

and looked, you can really find that the

immune system has a role in every brain

disease they've ever looked at. And yet

we've missed it because we've been so

obsessed with new, you know, the way

that Prozac works by it just being about

serotonin

uh or dopamine. And for 40 years, we've

been going down the wrong path and

missing this holistic view that actually

it's it's about inflammation

paired with metabolism. Because the

other big player here is and the reason

a lot of people get dementia is blood

sugar is not well controlled and the the

energy supply to the brain is not well

controlled. So those two things for me

have

transformed my view of of brain health.

And I used to study genetics as you know

and it was always interesting that in um

when we looked at twins which were

usually very similar for most things

when we looked at um brain diseases

there was very little similarity in the

twins. So the genetic component was

always quite small apart from a few

diseases. Most of them were really

low-level uh what we call heritability.

And there was a massive study in um

Sweden. They looked at several million

sibling pairs and s looked at all their

mental health or brain diseases I prefer

to call them. And there was no gene that

really came out even in several million

people that explained these disease

other than a general tendency

to get any type of brain disease.

So they called you know this like factor

P. Um, if you had this general

susceptibility, you could get any

disease, but that could be mania,

depression, bipolar, ADHD, it could be

Alzheimer's, it could be schizophrenia,

which which suddenly changes your whole

view of these these diseases. We've said

these are individual um diseases that

should always be looked at separately.

And if you start thinking of this as the

brain as a an organ just like anything

else like it was the liver, you'd say,

okay, we talk about liver disease, you

know, how do you prevent liver disease?

We never talk about that in brain

disease. We just say, okay, you got to

talk about manic depression differently

to uh ADHD or personality disorder or

epilepsy or whatever it is. But it turns

out that not only have the similar

genes, but really similar risk factors

as well.

I've heard you say that you think

Parkinson's disease starts in the gut as

inflammation in the gut.

>> Yeah, that's a great um example of how

my view of these diseases changing.

There's really good epidemiology data

now. Um

>> epidemiology data.

>> Epidemiology data is data in large

populations.

Um so you study the cause of disease by

studying populations. That's essentially

what epidemiology is. And what these

studies have shown is that if you follow

susceptible people

uh and find out who at the end ended up

with Parkinson's disease, you will see

that

about 90% of people who end up with

Parkinson disease had some gut problems

10 years before.

And you might say, okay, well, might not

be related, might be two separate

things, but they've actually found the

same protein changes in the brains in

people with Parkinson's disease, this

particular protein that gets misfolded.

It's a bit equivalent to Alzheimer's but

it's it's separate a separate type of

protein alpha sinuclean and it gets

folded and you get this characteristic

thing you can see

postmortem called a a louisi body but

it's the protein folding that's

important and if you look in the gut not

only do these people have constipation

and bloating and problems 10 years

before a really sluggish uh intestine

but they have the same proteins that are

misfolded that you can find in their gut

And they think that it takes 10 years

for these proteins to go slowly up the

vagus nerve into the brain and then it

causes the problem there. So this is the

the latest theory behind Parkinson's

disease that it actually starts in the

gut and it's related to inflammation in

the gut. So these proteins start folding

when the gut is not happy which means

that you could potentially prevent

Parkinson's disease by a gut friendly

diet. It looks like it's the evidence is

building that you know that's going to

be pretty concrete soon. If that's true

then you may think what other diseases

might have that origin there that we um

really don't understand. What about

multiple scerosis that might happen

there first? And it really starts to

bring,

you know, this obscure of these brain

disease back into the domain of the rest

of the body and what's going on there

and these metabolic problems. You know,

diabetes is the number one risk factor

for so many of these conditions as well.

So like if you got type two diabetes,

you're like four times as more likely to

have a brain disease. not only

depression but also you know bipolar,

schizophrenia,

epilepsy, all of these ones. So clearly

they're linked. They're this what goes

on in your body,

what you're eating,

what what your immune system is doing

has this amazing knock-on effect.

>> So what do we do about it? What does the

average person do about it? You know,

because the average you know what the

average diet looks like in the western

world. Um, if we want to have

optimally healthy brains and avoid

dementia, Parkinson's, and some of these

other disorders that are linked to the

gut, what is what is the most important

thing the listener right now should be

thinking about and doing? Well, I like

to think we got I've got a list that's

getting longer, but it I've got now

eight rules for gut health, which pretty

much work

for all health because we you to treat

the brain. It's no really different to

treating the rest of your body. If you

treat that well, you're going to be

fine. So, the first thing is to be

mindful of what you're eating. Don't

just put any old in your mouth, you

know? I mean, stop for a bit and saying,

"Is this what's in it? Is it any good

for me? How's it going to make me feel?"

>> You mean checking labels and stuff?

>> Checking labels or even just taking a

second to think, you know, gosh,

don't just blindly eat in front of the

TV without thinking what you're eating

as we most of us do. Second, and

probably the key thing is, I think, is

to eat a diversity of plants. 30 plants

a week. These 30 plants give you the

diversity of chemicals to act as

fertilizers for getting as many good

bugs as you can into your system.

>> How can you explain that to someone that

doesn't know much about the gut?

>> When I'm talking about your gut, I'm

talking about gut microbes. And there

are 40 to 100 trillion of these guys in

your mainly in your large intestine that

are

many pharmacies. And

there we have thousands of different

species, all of which highly selected to

eat only certain foods. There's one that

only likes coffee, for example, called

Lorenabacta.

>> A bug that only likes coffee in my

belly. It's

>> just waiting for you to drink coffee.

>> And when I drink coffee, what happens?

It uh has a party, has sex, has babies,

multiplies, and then produces certain

chemicals in response by breaking down

that coffee into other ingredients which

might then help your immune system and

um in some way explain why coffee is

good for your heart. So, you got to

imagine that you've got lots of bugs

like that that are highly specific

waiting for you to have uh not only

coffee, but you know, maybe it's seaweed

or maybe uh it's baobob or maybe it's

things you don't often have uh so that

we can expand our list of good bugs.

>> So, if I stop eating a particular food

like coffee, if I stop having coffee,

will that bug die? It probably goes down

to very low levels because actually

what's interesting is even if you stop

drinking coffee, you're surrounded by

coffee drinkers

and they they're droplets of saliva and

kisses and uh greetings mean that you'll

be getting uh some of that either those

bugs themselves or you'll be getting um

some bits of coffee in the air, a coffee

aroma. Okay. So, the bugs go up and down

in population.

>> Yes. So, even in non- coffee drinkers,

we do see tiny amounts of this uh this

Lorsonacta.

Um but in countries that don't drink

coffee at all, there are a few African

countries for example where it doesn't

ex

um so it that's but I think it's

important to imagine your it's a bit

like having a rare animal. You know,

you've got to feed in your zoo. You

don't want to give them all the same

food. You've got to give them this

diversity so that all the rare animals

can get out there. And we know that the

more good bugs you've got,

the better your immune system, the more

you dampen inflammation, the more you

can prevent all these problems that

we're seeing. So our our aim is to build

up the good bugs. And the more you build

them up, they squash out the bad bugs,

the ones that like eating the burgers

and the the the bad food and the and the

terrible quality fats and the artificial

substances. So you're squashing them out

by starving them and you do that by

feeding them properly. That's the that's

the concept if that makes sense.

>> And on that point of coffee, doesn't it

restrict blood flow to your brain?

>> No, not as far as I know.

>> Oh, really? Um I'm talking I know about

coffee at the epidemiological level. So

there have been multiple studies like I

was saying between coffee drinkers, non-

coffee drinkers, seeing what happens to

them 20 30 years later and drinking

between two and five cups of coffee

reduces your risk of heart disease by

about 25%.

So there may be other studies showing it

does something to your brain, but

generally everything I've seen is

beneficial. I've not seen anything

negative. Although there are some people

who react to caffeine badly, so there's

always a a personalized element to it.

>> Sleep disruption and stuff.

>> Yes. So you you might be a a

metabolizer. It doesn't metabolize

quickly in you. So that caffeine is

hanging around longer. So they're the

only

downsides to it for some people.

>> Can it make you more anxious?

>> Um I think it can make some people more

anxious. Yes. Um, and that's that's why

things like matcha are better than

coffee because they have a an extra

chemical in there that can calm you

down. So, like anything, it any food,

it's all personalized. And so, when we

talk about epidemiology, we're talking

about the average person. Um, doesn't

mean there aren't aren't exceptions. So,

I'm not saying that everybody in the

world needs to have coffee, but coffee

used to be demonized as something that

would give you heart attacks and

arrhythmias. And in fact the opposite is

true epidemologically speak you can

actually you get less heart

abnormalities arrhythmias when you drink

coffee for reasons we still don't

understand.

>> So the first point of the eight was mind

being mindful about what you eat. Second

was uh eat uh 30 different plants. And

that's that was the basis of our our

Zoey product, the daily 30, which has 34

uh mainly freeze-dried whole plants in

it. And we've recently added some more.

So, we added some seaweed, some algae,

and uh some kombucha in there. So,

they're rare ingredients. We got seven

different types of mushroom that you

wouldn't normally have.

>> It's worth me saying that I'm an

investor in Zoe. Um, and let me take

that back.

>> So, you just you take this out and you

sprinkle it on top of your food

typically.

>> Yes. You add it to food. Um, and it's so

it's it's different to most of the other

sort of supplements you might see. Uh,

it's not instead of food. It looks more

like food than most uh of the of the

common supplements out there that look

like green powders. We we did a big

trial of this with about 340 people

comparing it to a probiotic and a um a

dummy one and over 6 weeks you get

really quite dramatic improvements in

your gut uh microbes with with eating

this. So the you really push up the good

bugs and squash out the bad bugs about

several times more than you would get

just by having a traditional probiotic.

So this fertilizer approach

uh does seem to work and this is this is

the study where we also showed the

improvements in mood after a few days

which um you know surprised me because I

wasn't even thinking about that when we

we we planned the study. So the key

reported findings in that study were a

gut microbiome improvement,

an average increase of five points in

their Zo gut microbiome score, digestive

system, 70% of people reported

improvements in overall digestive

systems

symptoms. Um,

and it increased fullness by 41.5%.

Satisfaction by 21.6% 6% and energy by

43.3% and reduced hunger and desire to

eat versus

the meal alone.

About half reported increased energy and

45% reported improved happiness in the

main study.

>> So we weren't expecting that. That that

was my my point really on these because

we thought it would just be gut it like

okay do I get do I go to the toilet more

often? Is it improving my gut microbes?

And so it was a real bonus to see these

these brain effects.

>> And did you do stool tests on those

people to see yes the change in the bugs

in their stomach over that period? Was

it six weeks?

>> It was around six weeks. Yes.

>> Yeah. And what did you see change in

their their gut bugs?

>> So we've got a new scoring method for

gut bugs which we published last month

in in in nature. And so we used to talk

about diversity and on previous podcasts

I think we've talked about diversity

which is the number of different species

but we've got a better way of looking at

that now which is to take um 100 most

important bugs that change with diet

that everybody's got because we're all

different. It's very hard to compare

your your bugs with my bugs because we

only share 20%. So this looks at 100

common bugs that we've both got, 50 good

and 50 bad. And what we want in an

intervention is to see the the good bugs

are associated with good diet and good

health outcomes, good blood tests

are going up and the bad bugs associated

with inflammation,

uh, poor diets and bad health outcomes

going down. And that's exactly what we

saw. We saw an a change in roughly 40 of

these microbes with the prebiotic the

daily 30 whereas with the probiotic

which we know works from other studies

we saw only a change in about four or

five of the bugs.

>> Okay.

>> So was it so they both worked but the

the prebiotic was working better than

the probiotic which has sort of changed

my mind about what's more powerful.

>> So prebiotic being what and probiotic

being what? Prebiotic is like a

fertilizer for gut microbes. It's there.

It's giving them food.

>> Yeah.

>> So that and in an indiscriminate way

because we're giving a a wide variety of

foods. In these 34 plants, each of them

has hundreds of chemicals. So there's

thousands of different things for them

to feed on. Whereas a probiotic, we used

Lactobacillus ramnosis, which is a

well-known one that's been studied,

you know, hundred of time in hundreds of

trials. It's a live microbe that lives

generally in in foods like yogurt and

things like this in a concentrated form

in a capsule. You give that and it

improved uh the gut microb but much less

than the

>> so prebiotic gives them food. Probiotic

actually just puts bugs in there.

>> It puts bugs in there and we used to

think it was like a seed.

Uh so the it was the you know so

fertilizers and maybe seeds but we now

know that that bug will never really

seed in your in your gut microbiome.

And so the science is and our thinking

has changed. We think the probiotic is

is really tickling your immune system as

it's going down.

>> Okay.

>> So it's probably working higher up in

the the small intestine which is um

further up in the gut.

Where where is where is the gut?

>> Yes. So most people if you ask people to

point to the gut they always think of

their stomach.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh that's not your stomach. You see

that's that's your there the intestines.

So your your stomach is up here. U take

away your your liver.

If you imagine we've got a body here,

you got a mouth. Food goes in there

through the esophagus, which is a tube

that leads to the stomach. And this is

the stomach here, which is highly

acidic. And that leads into the geodenum

through a a little valve. And that is

where food starts getting mushed around

into little balls. It goes into the

small intestine here, which is badly

named because the small intestine is

really the largest bit of the gut. And

it's endless coils as of u guts there.

Lots of crypts. There's little nooks and

crannies everywhere. And so the surface

area is really huge. It's it's several

tennis courts if you laid it out just

one um in one human. And that's because

that's where most of the nutrients get

absorbed. They get extracted from the

food and absorbed that way. So that all

the trace elements and things we're

recycling. We're like a recycling

factory. And then from the small

intestine, it then goes into the large

intestine, which is also called the

colon. And that's where most of the gut

microbes are. So, so 99% of the gut

microbes are in that final part, the

large intestine, which uh is a a couple

of meters long and varies widely between

people. And this is the spot where fiber

uh goes, things that hasn't been

digested in the early part of the the

gut uh is and that's because the

microbes mainly feed off fiber.

And so that's where they do the good.

They convert that fiber into products

such as short- chain fatty acids, which

are the really beneficial chemicals that

are good for our immune system. And it's

important to realize that across both

the small and the large intestine,

you've got ner huge amounts of nerves.

You've got what's called the interic

nervous system, which is our second

brain and is it was actually the first

brain to be formed. So when we were

little embryos

uh we started as a little tube and the

nervous system that formed around our

intestine was actually the first bit

first brain of our body and in a way we

developed the second one on our head as

a oh bit of an afterthought. Uh which is

quite fun way of thinking about it but

just shows how important the nerves are

in our in our gut to our the way we

function. And as we were talking earlier

about this this connection between the

two and there's also immune cells. So

70% of our immune cells are uh in the

gut. Most of them in in the large

intestine but also in the small

intestine. So our immune system is here

and a huge amount of our nervous system

is here.

>> Why? Presumably the the bugs are all

through the body.

>> They're everywhere. So they're also in

your Yes. So I should point out we're

covered in bugs. So every bit of the

human body uh has uh some bugs in it.

The second biggest place where we have

them is in our mouth. So the oral

microbiome in our in our saliva and in

our teeth and uh our gums. And that's

why poor uh hygiene if you're not

flossing properly, you double the risk

of getting dementia as well.

Interestingly, because there's a a real

link between microbes here that if

they're eating plaque and other stuff

that you're leaving around in your gums

gets inflamed,

that creates an environment where nasty

microbes that love inflammation live.

And for reasons we don't know, they seem

to pass into from from your mouth into

your brain and trigger inflammation in

the brain, which then uh increase your

risk of dementia. if you're not

flossing.

>> Yes, this is really new science showing

that just how important these getting

the right bugs in the right place and

avoiding the ones who are in the wrong

place really is.

>> Why do we need these bugs? Why didn't

evolution design us so that we could

just do all this stuff without the need

of these little workers, these little

bugs in our bodies? It it seems super

weird to me that you know you think of

the human body as being this one

organism but actually it's appears to be

many millions and millions and millions

of organisms.

>> Well, you've got a sort of humanentric

view of the world. So um we we evolve

from microbes.

>> We are one. We we used to be one.

>> We used to be one and um it it turns out

that most of our body is are remnants of

microbes. microbes obviously fused to

cause to cause uh human cells.

So that was the whole origin of of how

multisellular creatures came together.

These single-sellled microbes,

some of them fused to to do that, others

stayed as single cells. There was always

this link between the single-sellled

guys and their multisellular

ancestors, if you like. And so as we

co-evolved into more complicated beings,

the the two were always together. And it

turned out that again as like as we're

formed as embryos, the gut is the first

thing that you know this this cylind

this tube is the first thing that comes

out um of the design system. And it's

designed to have microbes in it that

serve a crucial purpose in training our

immune system to recognize what's out

what's harmful and what's beneficial.

And it's also shown to be crucial for

our brain development. But it it is

fascinating when we start think about

our origins and think of it that you

know we essentially start as microbes

because also we don't think of our body

you know we've always historically

thought of you know God's creation this

body had nothing to do with anything

else we were the masters of the universe

and I think it's quite humbling to

realize that so much of us comes from

microbes and I learned something

recently that was that also blew me away

is that all ourselves have these

powerhouses in them called mitochondria.

And it turns out they do much more than

just supply batteries for the cell. They

they fighting inflammation. They're

important for gene expression. They're

good for metabolism. And it turns out

the origin of these things is little

microbes that got trapped in our bodies.

They are essentially uh microbes that

were good at making creating energy.

And um at some point in our distant

past, we fused um our multisellular

um microbes that were were going around

doing stuff. They said, "Oh, we could do

with some more energy." And so by chance

they fused with these energy microbes

and slowly and slowly became

incorporated into our bodies so that we

now have these mitochondria all of our

bodies which whose ancestors are also uh

microbes

>> and we have them in every cell of our

body.

>> Yes, we do. And they're turning out to

be quite crucial as well in in brain

health. Do you do you do you spend much

time wondering or have there been

periods in your life where you've

wondered about the meaning of all of

this and why there's living organisms?

Because it doesn't appear to be a great

need for living organisms.

You know, you could just have rocks and

water on these planets. I don't know why

you need humans necessarily in as it

relates to the contribution we make to

the um the environment. Well, I think as

soon as you had life, whether it was

plant life, I mean, you're you're

thinking perhaps of animal life, but you

know, things like lyken on rocks were

one of the first forms of life

and something that was needed to

get, you know, energy, nutrients from

the rock and then they for some reason

just wanted to survive, you know, and I

think that's the the point that life is

about

getting enough nutrients so you can uh

keep living or pass you know your genes

on to someone else. It's this uh that

concept once that was started maybe it

was lyken everything else came from that

and that could have just been a chance

event.

So I but I you know it is always

humbling humbling to think that you know

we've probably come back from some lowly

point like this uh as we emerge from

emerge from rocks and and water but um

uh yeah I philosophy is not my strong

suit but I I just get so much pleasure

from finding new facts uh that are all

around us and I think it's fascinating

that we've spent so long as humans

looking up at the stars

whereas looking inside us at things like

microbes and their origin is to me far

more exciting

>> and maybe explanatory

>> as to like you know we're looking at the

stars in France.

>> Yeah, we look at the stars oh where do

we come from? You know where what about

the big bang all this kind of stuff

whereas actually studying what's in

ourselves and where do they come from we

could learn a hell of a lot more about

ourselves. If you follow me, you've

probably heard me talk about hiring more

so than anything else. You've probably

seen me on Behind the Diary, which is

our other YouTube channel, talking about

how obsessed I am with the hiring

process. And this really brings me to a

recommendation I'd love to give you,

which is to check out our sponsor,

LinkedIn, if you're having hiring

difficulties. Their new AI assistant

filters out applications for you based

on the criteria you've set for that

specific job, surfacing only the best

matches. That way, you're not left

having to hunt through a mountain of

different rums. It'll recommend 25

candidates daily who fit what you're

looking for that you can then invite to

apply for the role. LinkedIn is where we

go to find the long-term A players that

I have in my team. In fact, employees

hired through LinkedIn are 30% more

likely to stick around for at least a

year compared to those hired through

other job networks. Hire right the first

time by posting your job for free at

linkedin.com/doac.

Then use the promotion feature to access

LinkedIn jobs new AI assistant. That's

linkedin.com/doac.

Terms and conditions apply. All I had to

do was brain dump. Imagine if you had

someone with you at all times that could

take the ideas you have in your head,

synthesize them with AI to make them

sound better and more grammatically

correct and write them down for you.

This is exactly what Whisper Flow is in

my life. It is this thought partner that

helps me explain what I want to say. And

it now means that on the go, when I'm

alone in my office, when I'm out and

about, I can respond to emails and Slack

messages and WhatsApps and everything

across all of my devices just by

speaking. I love this tool. And I

started talking about this on my

behindthescenes channel a couple of

months back. And then the founder

reached out to me and said, "We're

seeing a lot of people come to our tool

because of you." So, we'd love to be a

sponsor. We'd love you to be an investor

in the company. And so, I signed up for

both of those offers. And I'm now an

investor and a huge partner in a company

called Whisper Flow. You have to check

it out. Whisper Flow is four times

faster than typing. So if you want to

give it a try, head over to

whisperflow.ai/doac

to get started for free. And you can

find that link to whisper flow in the

description below. So that was the

second point of the eight, which is eat

30 plants.

And uh so daily 30 is a is a easy way to

do that and a tasty way to do that.

What's the third one? I'd go for eat eat

fermented foods and try and get three

portions of fermentss in your diet

>> every day.

>> Every day.

>> And I wouldn't have said this three

years ago because the science wasn't

really strong enough to support

this, but a study three years ago by a

group in Stanford of 28 people showed

the giving. They gave them five portions

a day for about a month and showed that

you can get a reduction in blood

inflammation levels about 25%

in that time compared to a fiber diet.

And that,

you know, blew me away because this this

was the first really good study in this

because there have been lots of studies

but they're not good quality. Suddenly

someone doing daily bloods, you know,

they would looked at 20 odd proteins in

the blood and suddenly you've got this

link between a a food

and directly affecting inflammation in

the blood, which as we've been talking

about has big knock-on effects on the

brain and the rest of the body.

>> That's like kimchi and stuff like that.

Fermented food is any food that's been

transformed by microbes into something

better, which means it it tastes better.

It's more complex. It lasts longer, so

you don't need a fridge. That's why our

ancestors did it. And it it's been

chemically transformed and is generally

more nutritious.

>> Give me some examples.

>> So, um, yogurt from milk. All you're

doing is adding

>> uh

>> zero fat. Zero fat Greek yogurt.

>> Oh, I'd never have zero fat Greek

yogurt. Why do you want to drink that?

>> I don't know. I just I was just

>> No. Uh no,

>> that that means it be Yeah. heavily

processed. You don't want that. But

there's still good microbes in it. And

um you know, all you're doing is

transforming something rather average

like milk, which adults don't really

need. It's not particularly beneficial

milk. And just by adding the microbes to

it, you make it something healthy for

the for the body. And that's now been

shown by uh by these these kind of

studies.

>> Which what do you mean by what's what's

wrong with this zero fat Greek yogurt?

It says zero fat. So that's sounds like

it's

>> there's nothing. Well, we we need fats

to live. So fat is good. And in fact,

the just a few days ago, the USDA have

changed their all their guidelines,

which used to be about saying don't have

fat and and have lowfat products to

saying actually fat is good. All that

advice we said in the past is wrong.

>> So why do they label things zero zero

fat still?

>> Because public still believe they're

healthy and the companies that make them

save money by calling it by having zero

fat. they replace the fat with starchy

artificially made um fillers basically.

So it's usually more sugary uh by having

zero fat in it. But if it says zero fat,

it's a sign it's unhealthy. You should

avoid it.

>> So what are those fermented foods then?

You were going to say you said

>> well I should I just give you a quick

list of all them so people know what I'm

talking about. So we've got yogurt,

>> we've got cheese, and virtually every

cheese has live microbes except American

cheeses. The more artisan the bigger the

number. Uh milk keir which is like a

super yogurt often has 10 to 20 types of

micro in it. The krauts. So I think of

the 4ks. So we got we've done keier. The

kraut is like a sauerkraut. So we got

fermented cabbage. Cabbage is pretty

boring on its own. You ferment it. The

tastes are amazing and it has these

health benefits. Then you've got kimchi,

which is a a spicy uh kraut and the

staple diet of Korea. And they're pretty

healthy. And even though it's got salt

in it, people who have kimchi have lower

blood pressure than people that don't

have kimchi, and I love kimchi. Now, I

hated it at first, but I'm now a real

addict. Then you've got kombuchas. Um

you see those in in most supermarkets

and stores. Uh that's fermented tea and

the good ones can have 30 or 40 of

these. There's other another type water

kefir which isn't as popular but I think

we're going to see more of it. Tibikos

is the other name for it. It's grains

with lots of microbes in it. A bit like

milk keir but with fruit added. And then

you got miso all the misos you get in

Japan. miso soup, uh, miso paste,

tempes, all the all these, uh, fermentss

around the world. There's hundreds of

different fermentss in nearly every

continent has their own type of ferment.

In Africa, there's all kinds of

fermented beers and porrides. And of

course, we got the these are the live

ones, but they've also got lots of dead

ferments. Obviously, bread is a dead

ferment. Everybody makes sourdough. Then

you've got wines and beers.

And interestingly,

um, again, very new science, dead

fermentss actually have some health

benefits. So, I used to be very

dismissive of

uh products like kombuchas that you

would see in in stores in America that

say lightly pasteurized. And I'd say,

well, that's a load of rubbish. Be

nothing good about that. But it turns

out that even dead microbes when you do

a randomized trial have some benefit for

the host.

>> You're looking a bit skeptical. But I

these against placebo uh studies and

enough of them now that you uh

definitely believe I know some of the

researchers that they they were

surprised but it's it's genuine.

>> Why is that? What's going on? We think

again if you go back to the vaccine um

discussion we we were having it looks

like although it's not alive the micro

still has a cell wall and it has

proteins in the cell wall. So it's like

the debris of these dead bodies that

you're ingesting. We think they're

tickling your immune cells as they go

through the uh small intestine.

>> Okay. And it it's it's giving a signal

to your immune system to calm down,

reduce inflammation.

That's our best understanding of what

this phenomenon is about. So

live microbes are best, but it looks

like dead microbes, which are called

postbiotics or zombie biotics, are

probably also good for you. So, I think

all fermented foods, even those that,

you know, I I would have dismissed 3

years ago, are probably good for us. And

that's really the best way to reduce

your inflammation levels. We did a big

study in Zoey of we asked 9,000 people

who are Zoey members who weren't taking

fermentss to try and see how they get on

taking three fermentss a day. How do

they feel?

I think about 3,000 dropped out. Didn't

didn't fancy it, but nearly 6,000

continued and did the the two weeks

taking it after a oneweek run-in period.

And around half of them noticed

improvements in mood, energy, and had

less hunger.

So, anyone out there who hasn't tried

this, I think it's a great simple way to

u see what you can improve just by

changing what you're eating and and

going for some of these fermentss that

you might not have thought about.

>> What's number four?

>> Number four is pivot your protein. At

the moment, proteins

all in the news. Everyone wants to have

more protein. Big controversy about

whether you need more. Uh most studies

showed 90% of us are getting enough

protein. Probably doesn't do too much

harm other than it's really hard to get

lots of protein in your diet. And most

people are focusing on eggs and meat

when they think about protein. So what I

think people should focus on is there

many other sources of good quality

protein like beans, like legumes, like

mushrooms,

uh like whole grains, like quinoa and

pole barley instead of rice. That if

you're thinking about it, you can get

your protein and get your fiber because

90% of us are deficient in fiber. And if

you want to look after your gut

microbes, you really need to uh be

giving them the fiber. Otherwise, you're

starving them just by having a a protein

drink. Next one. Which one are we on?

>> Number five.

>> Number five is think quality, not

calories.

The whole idea of assessing food by

calories is wrong. We've discussed this

in the past. You should never really go

for low calorie products. you should go

for ones that are whole foods that are

have their initial structure in them

that uh have all those original

nutrients. So, it's all focusing really

on high quality foods that haven't been

tampered with. And

>> why why not calories?

>> Because it's not a good way to assess

food. Uh calorie restricted diets have

been shown for the vast majority of

people not to work. And we know

particularly through GLP-1 drugs that as

you restrict your your diet and

calories, your hunger signals go up. And

hunger is the main driver of obesity.

So all you're doing is losing some

weight shortterm. Longterm it will

bounce back as your as your body does

that. So um calories should be ignored

on any labels really. You should be

looking to get high quality food that

supports your gut. And that's an

important change in mindset for many

people. But the next point is is is the

crucial one which links to that which is

avoiding high-risisk processed foods

because they

damage your your gut and your body in in

a number of ways. The first obvious one

is that they have lots of additives and

chemicals to transform them into

something edible.

And those ones

um things like emulsifiers,

preservatives,

uh gums, uh colorants, flavorings,

artificial sweeteners are all things

made by the food companies to trick your

body into thinking these are tasty. and

they often are, but they will damage

your gut microbes who in their billions

of years of evolution have never come

across these products because they don't

exist in nature in that form.

>> So like the cereal bar I have here.

>> Yes. So, this has got um flavored

fillings, whatever that means, glucose

syrup, glycerin, uh wheat, fruit juice

concentrate,

vegetable fiber, natural flavorings,

oatmeal, and soya. Well, this one

doesn't look too bad. Whatever. I'm not

quite sure how flavored filling is,

though. Flavored filling anything.

>> Was that corn flakes or something?

>> Corn flakes. Yes. So they would be uh

something I would regard as uh highly

processed and uh probably a moderate

risk. At Zoey we've created a new scale

because in the past we'd have grouped

all of these together as the same but I

think we now need to think of these as

zero mild moderate high risk depending

on whether they have them.

>> What about this?

>> That that would be high risk. Okay.

because this is designed by uh the

people that make them. It's got

preservatives in it that so this will be

the same in a week's time, right? We can

still be playing with it. It's not going

to change or get moldy. Um it's got uh

emulsifiers to keep it together. It's

got extra sugar in it. It'll have a

really amount of salt in there probably

and and sugar and got some fat in here.

Um, so it'll be hyper palatable. And

>> what does that mean?

>> That means that you can eat a lot of it

before you get full. So it makes you

overeat.

>> For anyone that can't see, we're talking

about white bread. Just normal white

bread that you'd probably get in the

supermarket.

>> Yeah. And it's it's got a special

structure that's different. That also

means that it it it takes very little

chewing. All right. So you put this in

your mouth, you don't really have to

chew it. It's like baby food. Whereas,

you know, a real bread made with high

fiber, you you know, it takes several

chews to get it down you. So, there's

lots of features of these foods that um

alert you to them being uh unhealthy.

So, not only ingredients which are bad

for your gut microbes and disrupt them,

the additives. U you've got the fact

that it makes you overeat. So, a lot of

those potato snacks and things you get,

they just dissolve in your mouth.

They're designed so you can eat them so

fast.

>> Is there a good bread or a preferable

bread?

>> Yeah, there are. There's not many things

like rye breads and spelt breads,

ideally sourdoughs,

um the German style breads that, you

know, the Scandinavian breads, they're

pretty good for you because they still

have the whole grain intact and that

means it's got the nutrients. also means

it's harder to eat them quickly and they

fill you up. These if you eat this

bread, it just doesn't makes you

hungrier. I used to have this all the

time when I was a a junior doctor. Every

ward had toasters and uh cheap bread

courtesy of the NHS and you you eat

them, they give you a little kick, but

you just feel just as hungry an hour

later having eaten, you know, four of

them. And I think this is the problem.

Many people don't realize that this food

is is not only making them sick, making

their gut microbes sick, but it it's

actually making them overeat. And

studies show it makes you overeat by

about 25%, which you know really adds up

every day of your life. A lot of people,

including me, have gone through their

life thinking that because when they eat

this stuff, they get stomach pains and

sometimes they have gas or they'll have

like, I don't know, toilet related

issues. um that they are gluten free,

like they are gluten intolerant or

whatever.

>> I was one of those people. I thought

because if I eat this, if I was to eat

this piece of bread, I'd feel it for the

next two days.

>> So, I assumed I was gluten-free. But

when I think we spoke last time, you

told me that almost nobody is is gluten

intolerant to has a gluten what's the

term?

>> Well, there's Yes.

>> Gluten intolerance.

>> Gluten intolerant.

>> Yeah. But that that's not

>> when you test them. Yes. Directly. I

mean there are some u but most people

who think they are are not and that's

because generally when you eat a

sandwich in the US or the UK uh you're

getting crap bread terrible filling uh

all kinds of other additives and

chemicals which are probably disagreeing

with you. So when you give up eating

sandwiches you might feel better. So

roughly up to 30% of people believe

gluten is a problem for them but only 1%

actually need to strictly avoid it.

>> I think it's a great example of

we love to have a simple solution. So

gluten came in said right everyone can

think about gluten. Let's just get rid

of that and all our problems are solved.

rather than thinking what are all the

other things in a in a cheap bread

sandwich that you might be reacting to.

It also could be the emulsifier that is

uh gluing that bread together or is in

the mayonnaise that you're having. Uh it

could be some of these colorants that

are, you know, making the bread white or

ch making that sauce bright yellow that

you might be intolerant of. The more

things that they these manufacturers add

to these foods, the more likely there is

one that is disagreeing you with you and

your favorite sandwich suddenly, you

know, becomes your worst enemy because,

you know, they're just created by

brilliant scientists to all they care

about is you find it irresistible and

keep eating it. If you eat the healthy

stuff, you don't have these problems.

>> What about these these almonds?

>> Um, some walnuts in there as well. What

do you think of almonds? I love almonds.

Um they're they're good for you and lots

of studies showing they're good for your

cognition, even some mild effects on

other aspects of brain health and uh and

and mood. These are uh good for gut

health. They've got all kinds of really

good fats in them. These omega-3s and

etc. are are in nuts. So, they're a

fantastic snack that um do fill you up

and generally recommend them. Probably

more data about walnuts than almonds for

brain health that that I've read about.

So, there are, you know, studies of

people take a lot of walnuts, they help,

but I I think the idea shouldn't be

there's only one type of nut that you

should eat that's going to help your

brain. We should again go back to this

concept of diversity. And so mix nuts

really are your best way of um helping

your your brain health by eating these

things. And we used to demonize nuts

because they had fat in it. Certainly

when I was uh you know 20 years ago, oh

you can't have peanuts and nuts. They're

really bad for your heart. Now we've

totally reversed this. And I just think

it it just shows

how much has changed in this field in in

a in a relatively short time.

>> What's number seven? So that number six

was avoid high-risk processed foods.

>> Important when you're picking food to

try and get as many colors on your plate

as possible because that's a sign that

they contain these chemicals called

polyphenols.

>> Natural colors.

>> Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Not the uh the blue

colors you get that we really want to

avoid which are bad for you. So natural

colors are a sign that they these foods

are good for you. So, we're talking

bright berries, we're talking

raspberries, blackberries, uh,

strawberries, we're talking um, rosolo

lettuce, we're talking about uh,

cabbages that are purple. Uh, we're

talking really all those bright colors

because they contain chemicals that are

from this family broadly called the

polyphenols which act as

fuel for your gut microbes. and that

allows them to then in turn uh produce

things like short- chain fatty acids and

and keeps them healthy. So, it's a sign

from nature that we're eating these

these foods and it's a signal probably

your ancestors knew. And the other sign

which we can't tell from looking at it,

but you we get to know is bitterness.

So, bitter uh plants tend to be much

healthier than uh bland ones. That's the

broccoli story. That's um why extra

virgin olive oil is so good for us. Why

uh coffee is also good. Why uh red wine

and and uh dark chocolate. It's those

polyphenols in there that are really

giving us our microbes a boost.

>> And the eighth one, last but not least,

>> last but not least, give your gut a

rest.

>> Fast.

>> Yes. So timerestricted eating,

this has been shown to help your uh gut

recover in a proper circadian rhythm.

It's a bit like getting a good night's

sleep for your gut. So we can we all

know the benefits of sleep for us, but

we often disregard our gut. Many people

have a late night snack, uh a kebab

going home from the pub or whatever it

is. It's completely the wrong thing to

do for your gut health. 12 to 14 hour uh

overnight fast trying to restrict your

eating time to 10 hours really has been

shown to have metabolic advantages for

you uh and improves your gut lining. So

it it's less likely to to leak and cause

inflammation and allows the cleaning

team and your microbes to come out and

and clean up your gut. the number of

studies now um showing that it it does

have these metabolic advantages, but I'm

not pushing it so hard these days

because we did do a mass another massive

uh citizen science study with Zoe with

over 100,000 people doing this. Um we

asked them to do 14-hour timerestricted

eating. A third

gave up. They said, "I can't do this. I

feel hung too hungry all the time. I

need to be snacking something like

almonds.

A third loved it and they're still doing

it two years later. And a third was sort

of, yeah, I'll do this sometimes. I feel

better on it. So, I think there's a

personalized element to it. But, uh, if

you can do it, it is really important.

And I would urge even the people that

find it tough, if you can avoid that

unhealthy late night snack, that can

have a really big impact on your gut and

your brain. You know, every once in a

while you come across a product that has

such a huge impact on your life that

you'd probably describe it as a

gamecher. And I would say for about 35

to 40% of my team, they would currently

describe this product that I have in

front of me called Ketone IQ, which you

can get at ketone.com,

as a game changer. But the reason I

became a coowner of this company and the

reason why they they now are a sponsor

of this podcast is because one day when

I came to work there was a box of this

stuff sat on my desk. I had no idea what

it was. Lily in my team says that this

company have been in touch. So I went

upstairs, tried it and quite frankly the

rest is history in terms of my focus, my

energy levels, how I feel, how I work,

how productive I am. Game changer. So if

you want to give it a try, visit

ketone.com/stephven

for 30% off. You'll also get a free gift

with your second shipment. And now you

can find Keton IQ at Target stores

across the United States where your

first shot is completely free of charge.

If there's anything we need, it is

connection. Especially in the world

we're living in today. And that is

exactly why we created these

conversation cards because on this show

when I sit here with my guests and have

those deep intimate conversations, this

remarkable thing happens time and time

again. We feel deeply connected to each

other. At the end of every episode, the

guest I'm interviewing leaves a question

for the next guest, and we've turned

them into these conversation cards. And

we've added these twist cards to make

your conversations even more

interesting. And there are so many more

twists along the way with the

conversation cards. This is the brand

new edition. And for the first time

ever, I've added to the pack this gold

card, which is an exclusive question

from me. But I'm only putting the gold

cards in the first run of conversation

cards. So, get yours now before the

limited edition gold cards are all gone.

Head to the link in the description

below.

>> You've become more open to keto in

recent years.

>> Yes.

Um, and

>> I'm ke I would say I'm keto curious.

>> You're keto curious. What's made you

keto curious? cuz I don't think you I

don't think you were very um keen on

keto before for

>> No, I think when we discussed it, I was

I was pretty anti it, you know, but

reading about the brain, how important

metabolism of the brain, brain energy is

and doing more research has slightly

changed my mind because what we

discovered is how amazing it is for

childhood epilepsy.

>> Mhm. It it is still used as the main

treatment for uh drugresistant childhood

epilepsy.

>> The keto diet.

>> The keto diet. So what for people who

don't know what what we're talking about

here is you're changing the the energy

supply of the brain from glucose to

ketone bodies, which is a switch that

we've always had ever in evolutionary

terms when we couldn't get food. So

after about 2 days of not having food,

we've used up our glucose reserves. We

used it up from our our muscles and you

switch to this other form uh of energy.

And it's a survival mechanism, but what

it tends to do is reset the brain. And

so in epilepsy, that's what they think.

It's a bit of a like rebooting your

computer. Epilepsy is rather strange

because and it used to be thought of as

a mental illness as as I said because

you can get hallucinations, delusions

um it's associated with depression all

all the same you can have all the same

symptoms you get in all mental illnesses

interestingly

and it can be cured by the by keto. So

that made me curious as to what else is

going on. So in theory, some of the

other mental health issues could be

improved by keto. At the moment, there

isn't sufficient good evidence. There's

lots of anecdotal stories,

studies of seven patients, open label,

not convincing enough for me to say

let's do it. But I think definitely

worth doing some real studies. but also

suggesting that even if you don't go as

far as keto, just by improving the

metabolism

and what how the brain is getting its

energy could be really important.

>> I think um the interesting thing about

the ketogenic diet um as someone that

kind of cycles in and out of it, I

actually I showed you earlier I have

this ketone

>> monitor on my arm which is monitoring my

uh ketone levels at all times and

connected to my phone. Um, I think the

interesting thing is in in the world we

live in where there's a lot of food

noise as they call it. Everywhere you

go, there's temptation to eat something

bad. You're going down the high street,

there's takeaways and junk food stores

and stuff like that. What I think keto

does, which you're probably never going

to see in a study, I don't know if you

would, is

it helps the craving. It like dampens

the food noise. So, this is part of why

I think cycling in and out of it is

quite useful for me because it means I

have several moments in the year where

my cravings for like this junk food,

some of which we have on this table,

just appear to vanish for a while, even

if it's just for a week or two weeks or

3 weeks or four weeks. And that allows

me to kind of reset and kind of take

back control of the steering wheel.

Whereas it's very easy, especially in

modern life when you're working really

hard or you're traveling, you've got

sleep disruption to get into that exact

spiral we talked about where you get

like cravings for sugar and then you eat

sugar so you feel a bit more tired and

you lay down a bit more and then you're

not you miss the gym and then you kind

of you have the same like downward

spiral. Um keto continually snaps me out

of the probabil the chance of that.

>> How long for though? H probably the

longest I've done it is maybe six weeks

or eight weeks. But even get even doing

it for

let's say one week for me will then mean

the preceding

four 8 weeks are much healthier in every

regard. So even when I come off it, I'm

much healthier when I you know what I'm

saying?

>> That's why what's interested me because

I think being on a long-term keto diet

is never going to work, right? is just

too brutal and it's incompatible with

keeping your gut happy.

>> Mhm.

>> So to me that's I mean very few people

can tolerate it anyway as you know it's

tough.

>> Yeah. If we can come up with a regime

that every three or every six months,

you had a few days of going into keto,

just enough to reset your body and your

brain, and at the same time, you

protected your gut, say by, you know,

taking daily 30 or other things that

weren't going to get you out of keto,

but could keep your your gut in a in a

in the right place, then I think we

could potentially be have a uh something

of practical use for brain health

issues.

And I' I'd love to, you know, do more of

that. I'm I'm planning at some point

later in this year to do to test myself

to see if I can uh do a week of keto

whilst keeping my gut microbes happy.

>> Have you ever done keto?

>> Uh not properly. No. You know, if you've

done a 24-hour fast, you for a

colonoscopy, you are just about getting

into keto at the time you're doing it,

but you're not you've got other things

to worry about going to the toilet to

distract you. I think this is really it

because we talked about how holistic

that the whole picture of the body is

and how it's so interconnected and how

the brain is so connected to the gut and

all these things and

there's something about doing the

ketogenic diet which just it feels like

I get control back

>> in a in a way that then has this bigger

holistic effect on my life my ability

everything in my life like my ability to

articulate myself as a podcaster I heard

actually Joe Rogan say the same thing he

had him say that words to the effect of

the fact that when he's in ketosis, it's

so profound his ability to articulate

himself and think as someone that does

4hour podcasts that he would almost stay

in it forever just for that particular

cognitive benefit of like mental

clarity. And I always say to my team

that when I'm in the keto diet, I feel

like I'm looking at the world like this,

like everything's high definition and my

mouth and brain are like I always say my

mouth and brain are connected suddenly.

>> Yeah. I've had other people say this

that they do get this sort of clarity

which which could be you know more

exaggerated way of feeling that benefit

of a long overnight fast um when you

come in after 14 hours without eating

and you're doing a podcast like this.

Yeah, I definitely do feel better than

if I'd had a big English breakfast