Customers and investors who have been

cryptonative for a long time are looking

for more traditional assets. Again,

that's something that's stable value

like a money market fund or exposure to

US equities so that they don't have to

sell out of Bitcoin, get cash, go to

their brokerage account, then invest in

an ETF. That brokerage account moment is

happening onchain with your phone. You

can access any market on chain by using

your iPhone or Android. And as stable

coins and wallets and other cryptonative

financial platforms become more common,

investors want that same breath of

investment options without having to

leave that ecosystem.

>> Welcome to Other People's Money. I am

joined today by Meredith Hannon, head of

business development for Wisdom Tree

Digital Assets. Meredith, thank you so

much for joining me today.

>> Thank you so much, Max, for having me.

I'm really looking forward to the

conversation. I was just saying before

we got started that I am a nerd about

capital formation and how the fund

management industry is evolving. The

tokenization of funds is something that

if you have been following crypto for

any period of time, you've been hearing

about and for a while it was theory and

then it started to happen on the fringes

and now it has reached asset managers

like Wisdom Tree that manage hundreds of

billions of dollars and so it is here.

It's happening and you're the person to

talk to about it. So from your

perspective, what has the growth been

like over the last few years and and why

did Wisdom Tree jump into tokenized

assets and and funds on chain?

>> So the growth has been exponential. We

were just talking about some figures

before we started and where we're where

we've been last year to this year is

almost five times incremental growth. So

more and more as you're start to hearing

about tokenization, a lot of it in the

past has been well it in theory there's

proof of concept there's a bit of

building but are investors actually

going to be utilizing it on a day-to-day

basis and really what 2025 proved out is

yes it's here yes it's here to stay and

regulatory changes like the Genius Act

coming into play in the US have been

really really critical in cementing this

business as what we see as the future of

financial services. And for those who

don't know Wisdom Tree, Wisdom Tree is a

historically ETF and ETP issuer, but

really what we're in is the business of

offering transparent exposures to our

end clients in places and platforms that

they already are. So for us,

tokenization was a really natural nice

bridge to say, we were in the ETF

business. What did to ETFs? what ETFs

did to mutual funds and trying to answer

that question. And what we found was

tokenization because if you think about

the transparency, the liquidity, the

utility, but then also the

standardization that tokenization

brings, a lot of those same elements are

what has made ETFs so successful as

well.

>> What does the AUM of uh tokenized funds

look like today at Wisdomree? I think

the last number was 750 million

predominantly in our money market fund

and a reason for that is really the

stable coin issuers a lot of blockchain

foundations as well after the genius act

looking to deploy uh capital into this

more stable value product but we have a

suite of 15 funds so these are all

tokenized all available on multiple

blockchains um available for retail and

institutional investors so whether

you're looking to invest in equities

through a Wisdom Tree 500 product or

you're looking to invest into a liquid

private credit product that's yielding

over 10%. We have the products that uh

you would need to invest to really build

a diversified portfolio or if there's

specific use cases that you're

interested in, that's also um an

opportunity to if you're into yield or

stable value. So, we're really focused

on providing a broad um depth of

products and to really again deliver

them to where our clients are, which the

majority, especially in the tokenized

space, are on chain and want to hold

them in their own wallet.

>> Well, we're definitely going to talk

about alts. This is other people's

money. We talk mostly about hedge funds

and other alternative types of

investments, whatever, whether they're

publicly traded in in the form of ETFs

or they're private funds. Um, so we're

definitely going to get into that later,

but I think it just helps to make that

comparison that you're making of of

early days of ETFs. So I I went in

preparation for this and I looked at

when did ETFs first come onto the scene

and it was 1993 the year before I was

born ETFs came out with SPY which today

I don't know where the AUM of spy sits

but at that time it was very new and I'm

just using Fed data and it took 2 years

before uh AUM of the ETF industry as a

whole from that first launch hit a

billion dollars. We're we're at

trillions and trillions of dollars

today. And you know, you talked about

the growth rate of the industry. I mean,

it seems like it's moving even faster

than ETFs did. When you think about the

comparison to the early days, how

how closely is it following what

happened with ETFs?

>> You're absolutely right. I love this

question because the ETF comparison is

incredibly

in uh instructive but also when you

think about end client behavior and not

just AUM. So as you mentioned when SPY

launched in 93 it didn't really take off

um in the way that you would have

expected to compared to what you're

seeing for tokenization. Um and at that

time it would have been very easy to say

it's a niche. It's not going to be

incremental. it's not where most people

are going to be investing today. But

then really what ultimately drove the

explosion of ETFs was not just the

product, but it was the distribution and

the user experience, which I think is

really akin to tokenization. So once

investors realize the power of a

brokerage account combined with ETFs

again the transparency the liquidity the

ease of access the ability to build

diversified portfolios in one place

adoption accelerated very quickly with

both retail investors advisors and

institutions and ETFs didn't change

necessarily the underlying asset it

changed how people accessed them and

what was available and that's exactly

how we think about tokenization um

tokenized funds are still again very

early today just like ETFs were in the

90s and early 2000s but we're already

seeing that clear end client demand as I

mentioned before five times more assets

than we saw at the start of 2025 and

that's particularly from users who are

managing value on chain um but it's also

the same thing that that ETF investors

wanted back then regulated transparent

exposures broad access and a better

ownership and settlement experience. So

for Wisdom Tree, this isn't necessarily

a new strategy. It's really a

continuation of what we've been doing

over the last 20 years, which is

democratizing access to markets through

better delivery mechanisms. And I think

the difference today is that that

brokerage account moment is happening on

chain with your phone. You can access

any market on chain by using your iPhone

or Android. And as stable coins and

wallets and other cryptonnative

financial platforms become more common,

investors want that same breath of

investment options without having to

leave that ecosystem. So we don't

directly benchmark our tokenized fund

AUM today against ET the ETF market but

in in terms of that hockey stick um

types of beginnings we're absolutely

seeing the same type of incremental

interest but now also truly investment

um which is a familiar trajectory and

one that we're uh very excited about.

One of the things that I would say is

different and is perhaps a tailwind for

tokenized funds is that it is a separate

ecosystem. There is aumum there that has

nowhere else to go. Whereas ETFs were an

alternative sort of within the same

ecosystem and traditional ecosystem and

and there's an ideological component.

There are people out there who want this

financial system to succeed. they want

to create these alternative rails and

they they want to see these types of of

products succeed. How does the the

ideological component the sort of

separate rail uh that people want to see

factor into the growth? Do you notice

that people are ideologically interested

in seeing the success of tokenized

products?

>> I think so. I think what's also

interesting though it's still very very

early days. So the financial services

equivalent would be the would be ETFs. A

lot of people also compare blockchain to

the internet where everyone spend a lot

of time early on in the internet days

talking about the underlying m mechanics

talking about the technology and then

over time you just realize it's a better

way to send mail. Instead of having to

go to your mailbox, you go to your

computer and it's just easier. It's just

faster. And I do think that we're going

to see that convergence over the next

few years where it's not so much talking

about the technology and the two

different rails. It's there's one

platform. Which asset do I get faster?

Which one do I get a new utility for?

Which one settles in a different way or

in the way that I wanted to or that I

can trade it 247? So I do think that

right now we're still talking about

those two different rails. I think over

the next few years it's very much going

to be not about the technology but about

the end investor experience. Um and I

think for a lot of reasons um people are

very encouraged about what blockchain

technology especially with the addition

of AI could do for the banking systems

for the payment systems but also for

financial services and what that

ownership means at the end of the day of

being able to manage your own wealth as

well. So I think across the spectrum,

whether you're an asset manager like us

or a bank or a payment platform or an

investor yourself, um that's really

critical. The the speed and the access

is is really what's driving this force.

>> I I would love to get into what that

user experience is like because for

myself, I I'm not saying at all that I

am like crypto native, but I've had a

Coinbase account. I have a brokerage

account. For me at this stage, I have

looked at getting exposure to to crypto,

not tokenized funds, but buying Bitcoin

and like that ETF experience is nice for

me. And so I am interested in what is

that user experience like for people

right now. uh especially for people who

aren't coming from, you know, experience

trading on decentralized exchanges and

things like that because there really

are levels to people's familiarity with

uh trading tokenized assets.

>> Absolutely. And just like there's levels

of experience in trading traditional

markets, right? Is that are you looking

at screens or are you looking at a basic

brokerage account? So the same type of

levels exist in tokenized assets as

well. I think from a user experience

perspective um we have done a lot of

work to really try to obsugate that

meaning really hide it from um

necessarily being on the front end. So,

for instance, we have a US retail app,

um, Wisdom Tree Prime, which is for US

retail investors that you go in, it's a

mobile app. It looks and feels like any

other app that you would have on your

phone, but behind the scenes, it's

actually all on blockchain, but if you

sign up, we're not talking about

blockchain. We're not talking about

private keys. We're not talking about

pass codes or phrases. All of it is, do

you want to invest? Here's an easy way

to do it. and your transactions are

settling in less than 10 seconds in some

cases. Um, so I think that's what's also

really powerful too is that the user

experience in a lot of ways we're

already seeing that technology really go

to the background. Of course, there are

still many DeFi applications that you

could also access these products and we

are spending a lot of time there too

because on the other end uh customers

and investors who have been cryptonative

for a long time are looking for more

traditional assets again that's

something that's stable value like a

money market fund or exposure to US

equities so that they don't have to sell

out of Bitcoin get cash go to their

brokerage account, then invest in an

ETF. That's a lot of friction and a lot

of different steps. So, what we're

really trying to do is converge the two

where if you would like to buy Bitcoin

in an ETF, we have that. If you'd like

to buy a money market fund, an equity

product, or a private credit product

within the same infrastructure that you

hold Bitcoin today directly, we also

have that. So, that really we're meeting

our customers where they are. and the

user experience. Depending on who you

are, depending on what you want to

access, there's really two different

ways to do it. And a great example of

that is our institutional platform,

Wisdom Tree Connect. It's all

predominantly today cryptonnative

institutions who want to be able to hold

these assets within their own wallet

infrastructure. So again, within their

own account. So it really just depends

on who you are and what you're looking

for. But the user experiences have been

I think significantly improved to be a

bit more mainstream friendly over the

last few years.

>> So who have those early adopters been?

Have they been the the more cryptonative

people or are they people coming through

the the retail app? I would say from a

volume perspective, it's many more of

the crypto native just because they're

used to um the the infrastructure and

they're they're familiar with it and

also I think for a lot of reasons

desperately craving more traditional

assets to hold as a diversifier for

crypto and um as I'm sure most people

know crypto can be pretty volatile. So

being able to have access to more stable

or even just well-known um underlying

assets and and traditional products I

think has been um really a driver there.

But in terms of the retail space, there

has been a lot of interest here too. I

mean you mentioned Coinbase before over

100 million users. So there's obviously

demand here. Um but for us I think the

critical thing with wisdom prime was

making it really really easy for any

retail investor to access these products

whether they wanted to be necessarily

cryptonative or not. So we have an

option you can come you can invest you

can hold um the products on platform if

you are cryptonative and want to move

them to another wallet meaning another

account that's on chain you can

absolutely do that too. So it's

providing that optionality but I think

predominantly um the growth over the

last year from an AUM perspective has

been on the institutional side but from

the volume it's been retail driven

>> and are these people who are building

diversified portfolios of crypto assets

and these traditional financial

ecosystem assets that have been

tokenized or are they switching between?

like you've got a a crypto hedge fund

that they're saying, "Hey, we don't want

exposure. We're kind of bearish. Let's

get out of crypto. Let's move into

equity or something like that." What

type of of person and what are they

looking for with this exposure?

>> A lot of it's yield driven. Um I don't

know if a crypto hedge fund would say,

"I'm totally out of crypto." I think

they probably would say, "Let me get

something that's yield bearing. I have

some dry powder, some cash. I have um a

bunch of stable coins that I'm waiting

to deploy. why not earn three and a

half, 5%, 11% depending on what they're

investing in um to pick up some yield

while they're waiting to deploy that

based on opportunistic buys. Um I think

that's a great example. We've also seen

it a lot with treasury management though

too. So think about CFOs um who are

international CFOs. They have accounts

in five different countries, banks in fi

in 10 different countries. How do they

move value from one account to another?

It's a wire. Um it's incredibly

expensive. It takes a lot of time. Using

these um types of products are able to

move value very fast. And especially for

the ones that we have, majority of them,

all of them um have a yield or some sort

of distribution. So you're actually

earning on that those assets again. So

think about if you had every bit of cash

actually invested that something that's

yield bearing depending on what the

level is that really adds up over time.

So there are those big types of use

cases of whether it's treasury whether

it's cash management and then there's

the more retail ones to say I want to

again manage my cash in a different way

have all my assets in one place so I

don't have 10 different financial apps

and you're able to use that too. Do you

see yield as being the big driver of

growth in these early years? Where are

things headed?

>> Sure. So, I think for us it's in part

yield, but it's also access and utility.

So, it's yield is a great I think

shortterm um identifier of where we're

going to see growth. So, whether it's

yield um focused investors who say,

"Okay, I don't want to just get three

and a half% of money market fund. I want

to get 10 or 11%. Um, or it's those who

again want to access these exposures

because they're already on chain or

they're interested in diversifying into

these night new types of products and

and really trying it out. But I think

the third bucket utility is where you

really are going to see exponential

growth. And what I mean by that is this

isn't just about, okay, this is the same

money market fund that I have in my

brokerage account that now I can access

onchain. It's about I could pay with a

money market fund. I could use a money

market fund for collateral and some sort

of lending pool to then be able to do

whether it's um looping strategies or

other types of we call them DeFi

integrations, but pretty much just

really creating a new value beyond just

having your portfolio and managing an

asset allocation and and building a

portfolio um that meets a certain

criteria for where you're going in a

risk profile. It really enables you to

think about how do you use your money on

a day-to-day basis and it doesn't have

to just sit in that brokerage account.

You can spend off of it. You could move

it, you could use as a form of payment

or you could go into um collateral types

of use cases to really enable you to

again expand what you're able to do

today out of a brokerage account. So, I

think it's really that that's the focus

for us. Yield in the short term is an

easy one. Yes, everyone wants a few more

dollars, but I think in the long term

it's about how tokenization takes just

investing to the next level to say how

do I use my money in a new and different

way than what I can do today.

>> And is that something that because you

talked about people can take these

assets and move them out of the wisdom

tree prime type of thing or you have the

the more institutional um wallet I'm

sure as well. Are these integrations

these DeFi integrations that you're

talking about something where people are

going to have to move it out or is this

coming into these these wallets that you

guys are developing?

>> Sure. Good question. This would be

outside of us. So we are again in the

business of building these assets and

enabling them to be used and utilized in

these ways. But um those would be

through other third parties who are

working and building on those platforms.

We see our role here really focused on

we call it responsible DeFi where we are

bu building regulated structures that

are um built and constructed in a way

within the traditional system that again

from a technology perspective enable

this new utility but do not sacrifice

the regulation the risk and the rigor

that you would come to effect from a

wisdom tree product.

>> Yeah let's talk about that regulation.

So these are all 40act funds fully

regulated under under US uh SEC rules.

Uh what happened in the last few years

that enabled 40 act funds to go onchain

and are 40act funds sort of like the end

all beall for wisdom tree or do you see

moving into um private funds?

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. So for us, we

started with 40 act funds um because

again that regulation and the rigor

around risk management was really

important for us. So others did SPVS out

of offshore entities. We thought it was

really important to have US-based

structure products that you get the

bankruptcy remoteness. You get the

transparency, you get the holdings, you

get that structure um that you can trust

in from an investor's perspective. So

today, our tokenized products are

constructed technically as mutual funds.

Uh we could see that absolutely evolves

more into an ETF structure. Um and that

was for a regulatory reason that we went

that route. Um, but I do think that what

really enabled this was that we tokenize

those shares. So, it's those shares that

are able to be put onto the blockchain.

And another thing that I think is really

cool and unique about this is it also

changed the paradigm. What blockchain

enables is that you can you really own

your tokens. You own your wallet. And

what we do is we identify who our

customers are. you go through a

traditional onboarding process like you

would and then through a technological

feature um that's technically an an NFT,

we know whose wallet is yours and then

you're able to interact and own these

tokens or these fund shares in a way

that is outside of Wisdom Tree. So you

don't need to log into Wisdom Tree's

portal every single day to check your

balance like you would in a brokerage

account. You can actually hold it in

your own account essentially or your own

wallet again with your Bitcoin, with

your meme coins, if you're doing the

prediction markets that people are doing

out. You can see it all in one in one

place that I think that ownership is

really powerful that you're owning your

own life. You're owning your own

investing and it's all in one place that

you want it to be. So, it's the

technology that really enabled this, but

the 40act structure of it is very much

built in the rigor that we think is

critically important to this space. Um,

because it's important that the end

investors can trust what they're owning,

can know that it's bankruptcy remote, if

anything ever happened, that they would

still be protected. all of those

protections which are so important in

the US financial system for end

investors, we wanted to keep those

whether you went onto the blockchain or

not. Um for the private side, so our

tokenized uh private credit fund is also

a 40act fund. Um but we also did make an

acquisition of um serious partners which

does farmland at the end of last year.

So we are very very much exploring um

the alternative investments space from

those types of structures. Um but at

least for the majority of our business

we're we're focused on the 40 act fund.

>> And these funds are they wisdom tree

managed? Are they third-party at fund

managers who are trying to get onto your

platform to be able to reach these

client bases?

>> Good question. So, the 15 uh funds that

we have that are tokenized are Wisdom

Tree Managed. Um and they are our own

strategies. Um we are open to and we're

having a lot of conversations about

potentially having other um funds

available to our clients, but for right

now, again, it's early innings, so it's

uh it's Wisdom Tree today.

>> Who are the managers that see these uh

tokenized funds as a as a growth

potential? Are they the big boys or are

they sort of more nimble middle market

lower market people who who see this as

as a way to grow?

>> That's it's the big boys. Every large

bank, asset manager, payments company,

if you pretty much search any large

company's name and blockchain or

tokenization after it, something is

going to pop up um to different degrees

on how long they've been in this or what

they're focusing on is very different.

Um but absolutely this has been a major

tide that I think has swept over the

asset management and the banking

industry and even just broadly financial

services. Um that is really starting to

think about how this new technology can

really impact distribution.

>> So you have uh two alternative funds.

Are they both private credit or is it

just the the one private credit fund?

There's one uh liquid private credit

fund and then we have an equity premium

which is a putright strategy on the S&P

500. So our liquid private credit fund

um credit is the the ticker CRDX. Um

that one is really more of a think of it

like a liquid private credit fund in

that it's T+0 on the subscriptions but

then T+2 on redemptions. So, what's

really different about this is that

there is more of a chance. There's no

longer lockup periods. You are able to

get in and get out um a little bit

faster than you would um in terms of

other funds that would be dating. um

which means that you're getting access

to the yields or the returns that you

would expect from a private credit fund

without having the lockups and the

gating um or the liquidity issues that

you may have with other types of more

traditional private credit funds. So

these are I believe evergreen funds is

what they call them on the private

credit side and they usually have

quarterly liquidity and then there's

some sort of like we can really only do

15% of NAV in a quarter. How does that

work for for you guys? So you're saying

there is no quarterly gate. There is no

15% level or anything like that?

>> No. No. And um we're going to get in the

weeds here so I hope that's okay. So um

how this is it's uh it's a fund of funds

essentially structure. So imagine we are

investing based on an index into it's

over 30 different whether it's BDC's

packs or closenend funds and that is

what is giving us that diversification.

So then when we get subscriptions or

when we get redemptions we're able to

allocate into those underlying products.

So, it's also important to note too, um,

a little bit different than other funds

and structures, ETFs, just like these

tokenized products that we have, it's

not necessarily based on the liquidity

of the fund. It's based on the liquidity

of the underlying market. So, if you

think about even if you had a Wisdom

Tree 500 fund and it had let's say a

$100 in it, that's not true. Orund, you

know, and you wanted to place an order

for a hundred million, you wouldn't have

to worry about the fund having a smaller

amount because the underlying Wisdom

Tree 500 basket, you could go out and

buy those 500 names that same day. Same

thing in this private credit fund

because we're able to have this basket.

We've done some tweaking recently to

ensure that um that is really optimized

for liquidity. Then you would be able to

invest there based on any redemption

size or subscription size that you would

need. So um it does make it very much a

gamecher for the private credit space

too because again you're getting that

yield of 10 11 12% without having those

quarterly lockups or that 15% to NAV

like you were talking about.

>> Now what about the secondary market?

People have talked about the fact that

uh one of the great things about the

blockchain is you have your your stake,

it's tokenized and you own that and it

can be transferred to to another owner.

Um is that something that people have

right now or when they look for

liquidity? Is it through wisdom tree

only?

>> Really good question. So um it can be

through us. So again, it's a T plus2

redemption cycle. But I was saying this

before that what's cool about the

blockchain is that you're owning your

own wallet. You're owning your own

token. So, let's say that we are both on

uh you know onboarded Wisdom Tree

customers. We could peer-to-peer

transfer to ourselves. It's not

necessarily a secondary market and

there's a lot of implications for our

true secondary market that we're working

on building out. Um it's not exactly

that, but the peer-to-peer

transferability is there. Um which is is

a cool really stepping stone to building

out a true secondary market. So there's

other um alternative investment tokens

that are trying to build out secondary

market trading. Um it's like in the

traditional side too, it's finding a

buyer, right? When you're a seller,

that's an important part of it. But from

a technology perspective, that is

possible and enabled today with

peer-to-peer transfers 247. um a true

secondary market is um hopefully soon to

come for us, but is is being worked out

in terms of what that looks like for a

venue and an RFQ type of model.

>> As far as transparency on holdings goes,

you know, mutual funds, ETFs, it's

updated daily. You get that people talk

about crypto, it's it's to the second.

So, when people have uh a look through

into the holdings of these tokenized

funds, let's say somebody does go make a

big redemption and the liquidity you

have happens to be in a handful of

funds, is that going to show up in the

holdings instantaneously for other

holders?

>> Really good question. So, today it is

still daily. So, again, not to the up to

the second like you would. Um, but

again, I think this is what's really

critical is that from an investor's

perspective,

the underlying is still the same

traditional asset like an equity or a

clothing fund or whatever it is that's

the underlying investment. So, and

that's very very transparent. You know

exactly what you're holding within these

funds down to the QIP level. So, while

it is only daily today and of course

we're going to look to improve that over

time, it's also dependent on the

underlying structure. So, we're not

going to quote something before um it's

necessarily shook a nav or or an

alternative price.

>> All of the funds that you own then, do

they also have to be T+2 in terms of

being able to offer this liquidity?

>> Yes. And I would love to come back in

probably six months and I will answer

this question differently. But for right

now, um, I will say that T+2, again,

depending on the underlying, is is what

many of our funds are, but our money

market fund is a great example of where

we want to go. It's T plus0 on

subscriptions and T plus0 on

redemptions. So, meaning that you can be

in and out in the same day if you want

to. Um, but you can defin you can also

be out in the same day. So I think

that's where the model that we're moving

towards is that as long as it's in by a

cutoff time you would be able to get

your tokens that same day. Of course

we'd love to move it to a 247 model

which again a lot of people are starting

to talk about. Um and there's a lot of

different types of mechanics that would

go along with that from a trading

perspective and spreads and all that

good stuff. Um, but I think that the

example of where our money market fund

is today where we have continuous

interest acral down to the second you

can um it's T plus zero on subscriptions

and redemptions, very low minimums able

to be utilized um for payments or for

collateral or as a backing um or as a

cash or treasury management solution.

That type of example is where we want to

bring the rest of our funds over the

next year or so.

>> Okay. So, but the the funds that are

owned by say like the private credit

fund today, do some of them have that

quarterly liquidity profile that I think

most people are familiar with?

>> Yes.

>> Even if they're tokenized. Yes.

>> Okay. So, is Wisdom Tree then stepping

in to to offer the the T+2, how is that

working?

>> Oh, sure. So, on our private credit, at

least for our tokenized private credit

fund, the underlying that I was talking

about that we're investing in all trades

like equities do um publicly on market.

So, um it's not necessarily

um one of these other types of funds

that are with quarterly lockups. We

chose to go truly the liquid route so

that again investors are able to invest

when they want and redeem when they

want. As tokenized funds grow and people

see it as an opportunity for asset

growth, do you think it's going to push

liquidity profiles in the industry as a

whole more towards this T plus2 or as

you said if if 247 liquidity becomes

something that people expect that

investors expect like how is it going to

push the market as a whole to be more

liquid? I I do think so. And even beyond

blockchain, I also think the fact that

there's discussion about having

alternatives in 401ks, in other wealth

distribution channels, being able to be

held by retail investors, not just

accredited investors. I think all of

that is going to push the liquidity

profile to change and some of these

rules around gating or even just

structures of funds to be very different

than necessarily what they are today. Do

I think every fund will do that? No, I

think select ones if they want to will.

Um but there's a good reason that some

funds are still two and 20. Um and I

think they'll remain that. If you're

looking meaning broadly to provide

access to retail um investors like we

are wealth management channels as we do

I I do think that that will change too

and you're going to want to to be

successful in this market provide access

to investors in the way that they want

to and in the timing that they want to

as well. um because I don't think most

retail investors um or even in the

wealth channel would want to have a

quarterly lock up nor do I think

advisers would necessarily want to be

pitching that depending on the the total

assets that the client has. Um so I do

think it will change. I I think it'll be

interesting to see who pushes towards

that and who remains maybe even on the

other side of the spectrum to become

more exclusive um as alternatives open

up to be for the masses a bit more.

>> What's next in terms of alternatives? Is

it more private credit? What what is

where do you see the growth in terms of

alternatives on chain?

>> I definitely think private credit. Um, I

also think in terms of just what we're

seeing for different types of even think

of the other way. So, crypto types of

structures, yields being put into

alternative investment vehicles that

could be distributed in traditional

channels. I think we could also see um

but I definitely think that private

credit is probably the theme for the

rest of this year depending on um where

rates go. And I also think that as you

look forward, even in the real estate

space, something that continuously is

talked about, I think we're going to see

more and more on the real estate front,

too.

>> That brings up an interesting point

because to people who are maybe more

familiar with what's available in the

the cryptonative ecosystem, there's

plenty of yield products. Now, some of

these have had their issues over time.

So, somebody might be asking themselves,

well, there is yield in the crypto

ecosystem. Why would somebody want to

come to Tradfi types of products to get

yield when it's out there?

>> Absolutely. And I think what's

important, and I think anyone in

traditional finance will laugh when I'm

about to say this, but um if you don't

understand where the yield is coming

from, you may be the yield. So, you need

to understand what you're investing in.

I think everyone probably who's

listening to your show knows that. Um

but there are question marks in

especially some of these yield

offerings. um that you're not really

sure how do you get to 20%, how do you

get to 25%. These are massive numbers

and there's not that much clarity or

transparency around where that yield is

coming from. Um and that's I think the

case for there were a lot of issues in

2022 and a few years before um of

uncolateralized types of lending and and

and the like. So, I think what the draw

is is going back to my responsible DeFi

ethos is that on a daily basis, you can

see what we're investing in, what we're

holding, where the yield is coming from.

If anything, um, there's an issue with

any sort of structure, it's bankruptcy,

remote, your assets are safe. I think

all of those are really important

pillars that not only crypto native

types of investors are looking for, but

any investor is looking for. And that

transparency, that openness, um, I think

is what make Wisdom Tree very unique and

great.

>> How is KYC and the storing of that

information being done? And you know

what, what does the future look like?

Are we all going to have like a KYC

accreditation verified wallet and it's

just stored there and you don't have to

use these third-party systems to to

verify to be able to determine is this

person um, you know, who they say they

are and are they uh, qualified for this

investment. It's a great question. I

think identity is a really really big

key tenant in financial services but

also in blockchain. Um and uh I think a

lot of people believe the blockchain's

anonymous. It's not anonymous. It's

pseudo anom anonymous. You still have

some indication of who you are and you

get to decide how you share your data

and where. And I think that's what's

really powerful today. Our KYC process

is a traditional KYC process as a

regulated broker dealer and and all of

the licensing that we have. So, we are

collecting that information safely and

securely. Um, but there is a future

where and today we do this where we're

pretty much tagging your account or your

wallet saying yes, you are a wisdom tree

customer. Yes, we know who you are. Yes,

you can hold our assets. that we could

expand that to say well and all of asset

manager AB and C would also be able to

have that same type of account or wallet

tagging that we would enable that you

don't have to KYC with every single

entity every bank you want to go to

every brokerage you want to go to there

could be some sort of KYC um or they

call it reliance type of a model there's

a lot of regulatory work that would need

to do for that to happen especially um

cross jurisdictionally.

But what I do really love about this

technology is to my first point about

choosing when you share your identity

and with who and how and for how long

and all of that is possible. So instead

of okay, I went on to whatever website

and I uploaded my driver's license 10

years ago and are they still using that

information? What if they get hacked?

How many of us have gotten an email to

say your information was exposed? and

you're like which information? I have no

idea. I don't even know what it was

that's out there now literally in the

ether. So, I do think that that control

and that pseudo anonymity is going to be

really powerful for identity and what

that means and translates for financial

services and the banking industry is for

the end investor. How many times do you

have to KYC? Does this mean that you

could do this once? You could say I'm an

accredited investor and that means based

on the identity network that whoever

that has with now I have access to 20

different funds that I would have had to

go to each original you know

individually to get access to and now I

have access to all of them and that's

something that we've built with our

institutional platform Wisdomree connect

when you on board with us once you have

access to all of our products and all

future products so if we launch a new

fund like we launched this credit

product in December, our clients didn't

have to re on board with us to get

access to it. They just have access to

it. I think it's that that's really

powerful. Um, and that ease of access

again as a mantra for us has been really

important as we build out this new

feature and functionality.

>> Yeah. And one of the I think defining

features of crypto especially when you

talk to the people who are in it every

day is it does feel more collaborative.

It does feel like the interoperability

is like so important to um how it all

works. Certainly in Tradfi, we we kind

of have our walled gardens where we're

all competing with each other. Like has

there been a a culture shock for for

Wisdom Tree to sort of deal with this

crypto ecosystem and and is it going to

seep into into Tradfi um and really

change the ethos of of financial

services?

I I don't think it's been a shock to us.

We're we're a very collaborative

organization and I think especially here

it's a rising tide lifts all ships

especially as it's such a new and um

evolving industry and you learn so much

from um different counterparties and

people and it's funny it's funny you

asked that question because even people

who would traditionally be our

competitors in the traditional space um

I know their counterparties very well

and we talk about the evolution of the

business and what are they working on

and what are we working on? Because it

is that new. I'm sure that will change.

Um it'll probably become more like

traditional financial services than

necessarily where we are today. But I do

think that because

there's so much growth happening,

there's so much happening, meaning news

every day, improvements every day, um

new blockchains, launching new features,

launching new functionalities, launching

the art of the possible is still there.

Um, so I do think a lot of that and

growing together is going um to make all

of this successful.

>> Yeah. The big money changes everything,

right?

>> Yep. Exactly. Exactly. And we're all

competing for some things, but in the

long run, too, like that identity

network I was talking about. I mean, how

powerful would it be if Wisdom Tree, JP

Morgan, Apollo,

Wellington, we all all of our customers

were able to access all of our products

all at the same time. That would be

really really powerful and city those

are all people we've done proofs of

concept with. So imagine that. Imagine

us being able to do that. I mean that

would be a pretty great experience for

everyone both on the banking side but

also on the actual end investor side and

I think would be beneficial for everyone

involved.

>> I I love having these conversations

where I I truly am learning like

throughout the the course of the

interview because I'm not as familiar

with it. So I want to ask a question.

What are the things I'm not even

conceiving of to ask that are happening

that you just wouldn't know unless

you're in a type of seat like you're in?

>> That's a great question. It's always a

tough one to answer because there's

about a million things, but um I think

what's and what so I I probably should

have talked about my background a little

bit, but was in traditional finance

before um coming to Wisdom Tree. Um, I

mentioned before the art of the possible

and I think why so many of us from

traditional finance have now gotten a

blockchain is because we asked ourselves

some sort of question of this can't be

the best way to do this and I know

everyone knows that feeling or what if

it could be faster? What if it could be

better? What if I didn't have to go

through these three different

intermediaries? What if I didn't have to

fax this report over to soand so to

manually type it in? What if it was just

better? And blockchain has identified a

lot of those pain points and made some

of them simpler and some of them at

least as of right now a little bit more

complicated as you're having both the

offchain so the traditional way you

would do recordkeeping as an example and

doing onchain but I think over the

course of time that will be improved and

really streamlined and I think it will

be better so from my see what I see is

there's a ton of opportunity globally um

I would also say in the US it's massive.

Um but Europe has also done a lot in

terms of regulation country by country

but at an EU level to advance their

position. Um but then Latin America and

Asia are also really using this

technology on a daily basis which I

think is very very cool. So whether you

want to access tokenized gold out of

Africa through a mobile app that you

have through your equivalent of your

cell phone provider, that's a

possibility with this technology. Or if

you want to build a diversified

portfolio of pretty much ADRs um out of

Argentina, that's also a possibility. Um

so it's just a different way to really

think about the world. So, if there's a

what if that you're thinking about,

there's probably something in crypto

that solves it. But, um, for my vantage

point, it's a global expansion. It's the

yield opportunities, but it's also these

new use cases for utility. That's what

really excites me. Um whether you want

to have a thousand model portfolios that

you can rebalance in three clicks,

whether you want to make crossber

payments to 50 different entities in

less than 30 seconds, or whether you

want to invest in some,

you know, startup that you can do angel

investing through and they're halfway

across the world and you do all of this

um through owning an NFT on the

blockchain. All of that is possible

using the technology. So it's not

necessarily while crypto is an asset

class, it's not necessarily that there

are really really new types of

businesses operating. It's how do you

take existing problems and make them

better using technology or make them

more streamlined or improve them in some

way and I think that's a lot of the work

that's being done which is pretty cool.

>> All right, we talked about Wisdom Tree

Prime as sort of the the retail wallet

that gives people access to this. What

are the resources? What is the on-ramp

for people who who want to to learn more

about uh tokenized assets through Wisdom

Tree?

>> Sure. So, if you're in the US, download

Wisdom Tree Prime. Um it's in the Apple

Store, the Android store. Um super easy

to start. Our minimums are a dollar. The

highest minimum is $25. You can connect

your bank account. Um or you can move

crypto value into the wallet to start

making um uh investments. And then on

the institutional side, if you're

interested in learning more, Wisdom Tree

Connect is our institutional platform.

Um, whether you want to be an investor,

whether you want to partner on listing

your tokens on our platform, happy to

have those conversations and you can

reach out to me directly. My name's

spelled a little bit uniquely, but um,

you'll find me pretty easily because of

that and happy to just really connect

with your audience and learn more about

what they're thinking about, too. We'll

make sure we spell it correctly in the

uh in the description and in the lower

thirds that are on screen. So, everyone

should get that right. Meredith, thank

you so much for joining me today.

>> Thank you so much, Max. This was a lot

of fun.