Welcome back to life, dude.

>> Well, I've been I've been living again

for quite a while now. Um, June 28th was

actually the day I got the transplant

last year, so coming up on a year for

that. Uh, I think I believe I woke up on

July 2nd or somewhere around there or,

you know, like came to in my own mind.

Um, so yeah, it's been a process, but

I'm here. I'm getting better. Uh, and

life's pretty good. So, one year ago

from now, you were really in the [ __ ]

>> Well, I just made a post yesterday

because on June 6th, which was two days

ago, Saturday, I got inducted into the

National Wrestling Hall of Fame. And

when I went home or went back to hotel

with my wife, I said, "Didn't I get

airlifted June 6th last year?" So, last

year on June 6th, I was in Vegas and I

went first the first hospital, second

hospital, and then we had some friends

that came out that were one was the

doctor, one was a nurse, and they said,

"You ain't he's not going to make it to

this hospital. we need to get him back

to Milwaukee because they have a good uh

it's called CVICU

uh cardiovascular intensive care unit

and they they got me a flight. They put

me on a plane uh took me all the way

back and I said to my wife, "Why was

that such a bad day?" Cuz I don't

remember. I was sleeping. And she said

to transport me, they had to fully

paralyze my body. Um and then when I got

back to Milwaukee, they put me on ECMO.

And with ECMO, there's I think there's

only like a 40% chance you come off

ECMO. A lot of people go on it don't

come off it. So, uh, they were hoping I

wouldn't have to do that. I did have to

do that. So, June 6th last year,

although I don't remember anything. It

was quite eventful.

>> And then this year, you got to

celebrate. So, it's, you know, is full

circle. For the people who don't know

what we're talking about, could you

could you explain what's happened over

the last 12 months?

>> Yeah. Um, well, May May 28th last year,

uh, 2025, um, I went to the hospital. I

actually went to the hospital on the day

before. Also, May 27th, my back was

hurting. just a back back pain. I

thought it was a back spasm. That was

it, you know. And on May 27th, I tested

everything was normal. Did all the

vitals and and I told my wife, "See, I

told you I was just a back spasm." And

the doctor gave me medicine for a back

spasm. And I went back to the hotel. We

were at the Bitcoin conference and it

got worse and the medicine did not work

at all, which that's never happened.

I've had, you know, a handful of

backpor.

And then, you know, I was up most of the

night trying to make it feel better.

And when I woke up in the morning, so

sometime in the middle of the night, I'd

finally fallen asleep. When I woke up in

the morning, it was a little bit later.

And she had been videotaping me

sleeping. And she had sent it to a few

of our doctor friends, and they said,

"You need to get him to the hospital as

soon as you can." So, when I woke up,

um,

>> what was what was happening while you

were sleeping?

>> I was like super like super fast and

hard breathing, right? Um, and so when I

woke up, my wife's like, "Hey, we're

we're going to the hospital." I said,

"Dude, you made me go to you make me go

to the hospital." I say, "I'm not going

back to the hospital, damn it. Um, you

know, I got stuff I want to do today. I

don't want to go to the hospital." And

she's like, "No, you got to go to the

hospital." So eventually they convinced

me to go to the hospital and it was the

same place as the day before. We went

there and I remember walking in in the

waiting room and then that's it. I don't

remember anything. I woke up in July

2nd. I didn't know where I was. I didn't

know why I was there. I don't remember

anything. I was asleep for I want to say

it was I think it was 37 days, I

believe.

>> So, you you transported from kind of

being a bit irritated that you were back

at the same hospital for what you

thought might be a back spasm for the

second time and your wife being a little

bit overbearing.

>> Yes.

>> To now it's July and what the [ __ ] am I

Oh, and I'm in a totally different I'm

in a totally different hospital now.

>> Well, I woke up and it was uh you know,

I say wake up. I was awake sometimes,

but I I uh to my recollection, I I don't

recall any any of it. Nothing. And so

that when I when I like wake up the

first time or when I come to some type

of cognitive understanding of what's

going on. Yeah.

>> Um it was it was the middle of the

night. It was dark. I obviously quickly

realized I was in a hospital and I

started thinking like, how did I end up

here? Why am I here? I didn't remember

going in Vegas. It was how am I here?

Why am I here? And then I couldn't speak

at all. And so I I don't even recall how

it happened but for some way I you know

signal to the nurse like why am I here?

What am I doing? And they told me I had

a double lung transplant and you know

again I couldn't talk and it was like

okay why do I have a double lung

transplant? I have I don't know. I have

no idea what how that would happen. I'm

totally healthy. I've never smoked. I've

never done anything. Um and then

eventually my wife came in the morning

whatever that you know the next morning

or whatever and she had documented

everything. So it was like a dayby-day

journal of you know June 2nd this

happened June 4th this happened and I

had to read through it and I was like oh

my god what like how did this ever

happened? Um and yeah so that was kind

of my recollection of waking up and kind

of figuring out what was going on. So,

retrospectively, I know that you weren't

awake to be able to work out this from a

first-person view. What you go into the

waiting room and then what happens from

there?

>> Um, well, so I had a staff infection on

my elbow.

>> Um, I don't know if you've ever got one

or not, but you know, sometimes like I

all my life I've only had to get on an

uh antibiotic a singular time. um you

know, you get a cut, you get a little

infected, you put some antibacterial on

there, you wash, you shower, you clean

it up, and it goes away. And that was

what happened to me. I had a little

infection on my elbow. I washed, I

showered, I soaked it, I added

bacterial, and within a couple days, it

it was gone. And I didn't think much of

it, you know, and then I made no

connection, but about four days later,

my my back was started hurting and I

thought, okay, this is the back spasm.

And everyone always said, you would do

it differently. And I said, no, I

wouldn't. How who ever could guess, oh

yeah, my back hurts because my body's

eating my lungs from the inside. Like,

no one's ever heard of that. That's

totally ridiculous. So, the staff got

into my blood and it turned into a a

necro called necrotyping pneumonia in

which uh my body was essentially eating

my lungs from the inside out. That was

what the back pain was. So, I dealt with

that for about I think five days before

I ended up in the hospital. And then so

when I was in the hospital, it was like

really bad like sepsis and necroizing

pneumonia. Um and yeah, so they they

tried doing all they could to kind of

like save my lungs and and keep me

alive. And at some point it became the

only way I was going to stay alive was

to have a uh lung transplant, which you

know, again, I wasn't awake for any of

this. Um and so I believe I was in the

Milwaukee hospital for about three weeks

before that happened. And then I got the

lung transplant and uh I think I was

still kind of like unconscious for about

six more days after that and then I woke

up and there I was.

>> [ __ ] me. Where do you get

>> Where do you get lungs from?

>> That's what I said.

Um

I I don't know. Uh I actually wrote to

the donor family. The donor family has

not responded. Obviously two from the

same person.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But you don't you can't you

can't mix and match two lungs.

>> Oh, I actually think you can. Uh, no, I

know you can because I talked to a guy

in the hospital about it, you know. And

that's one that's where um you think

about life and you think about gratitude

and you never want to take anything for

granted. And I always think about the

people I meet in the hospital now. Uh

this was a while ago now probably four

months ago but I was in for one of my

kind of routine checkups and this this

guy comes up to me and you know I'm I'm

waiting to go inside the you know to

meet the doctors and so a lot of the

same similar type people in the similar

area. So he had a lung transplant and

you know I think okay I was I was

unconscious for 36 days and I was in the

hospital for I think it was 73 total or

something which is quite a long time and

it wasn't fun but then this guy was in

the hospital for nine months and he was

sick and he got a double lung transplant

and then almost immediately one of the

two lungs rejected. I don't know why or

how. I'm not a medical doctor. I can't

tell what happened. And he got a

different lung from a different person

and he is now living with two new lungs

from two different people. So I always I

try to reflect on yes, my situation was

tough, but it could always be tougher

and at the end of the day, I could

always not be here. So I'm quite

grateful for what happened.

>> Where do they how do the lungs come out?

>> They cut you right. I don't know if you

guys can see this, but Right. They

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> They split you right in half. Yeah. So,

they're not taking it from like under

They're not reaching under the rib cage

and pulling it down. Are they cracking

the rib cage open?

>> You know, you know what, Chris? I've

never had the balls to go look exactly

how they do it.

>> No way.

>> No, I don't want to.

>> You just didn't want to know.

>> I don't It's called the Well, I mean,

you can Google Go look it up if you

want. It's called the clam shell in clam

shell incision is what it's called. Um I

could see exactly where I've been cut. I

know what it feels like. Um, but no, I

I've never had the balls to uh go look

up and see exactly how they open you up.

>> I guess

>> I feel like that'll gross me out a

little too much.

>> Yeah, maybe. Maybe. I suppose. So, I

guess what's crazy is like they're going

to have they have to reattach. It's like

it's like basically plumbing. It's human

plumbing.

>> You're like reattaching or human AC

ducting maybe more accurately. It's

like, oh, there's a pipe that comes

down. We got to get rid of this pipe.

That pipe needs to be reconnected.

>> I mean, I don't know how again if you

haven't done your research, you haven't

done your research. I want to know how

when you're removing somebody's lungs, I

need to know how they keep you breathing

because you need

>> oxygen to keep you [ __ ] going. But

there's there has to be a moment when

there's no lungs or there's a moment.

>> There's a moment when there's four

lungs.

>> There's one of two choices. They either

attach both at the same time and swat

switch one out.

>> Yeah. You know what? I don't know the

answer to this. I should know the

answer. I do know. I'll tell you this is

gross. They said, the doctor did say it

was the uh worst lung transplant she's

ever seen because so many of my tissue

died. It had like uh essentially like

stick like glue to the walls of my ribs

and stuff like that. So they had to like

really scrape all the old lungs off the

inside of my chest cavity

>> because they would kind of decomposing

inside of you.

>> That's that's what she said. So she said

it was uh it was one of the worst that

they'd ever seen. Uh, it took I I don't

remember what the time was now because I

was half unconscious for a lot of the

first time I was awake because she said

it took them quite a while to actually

clear it out and then, you know, get the

new ones in. So, you know what? I don't

know how I was bleeding at that point in

time.

>> Do people have any idea where this comes

from? Is it it just randomly onsets? Is

it a virus? Do you get it by

>> Yeah.

>> being on mats or what?

Well, I think I got the original

original staff infection, but to the

point I made earlier, like it cleared up

and it was no big deal. And it wasn't

like I had the flu or I was sick or I

was coughing or none of these things

whatsoever. Um, and you know, the Kyle

Bush thing that happened, that was a

couple weeks back and it was weird. It

was almost to the day of when mine

happened the year prior. um sounded very

very similar to what I what I went

through and uh you know I have not

grilled the doctor really really hard on

why why exactly did this happen how did

this happen or or that kind of stuff I

guess I woke up and I said well this is

my new reality how do how do I get

better so I grilled him a lot on how how

do I get better but I haven't grilled

him on how did it happen

>> that's really interesting mindset I

>> I guess it's it's really only important

for you to understand what happened in

so far as it informs what you can do now

to improve.

>> Yeah. And uh you know what happened was

I think probably something that's

extreme extremely rare. Um you know I

guess I could go back and ask him and

honestly part of me thinks and and this

is just me judging from what my wife

said because my wife was obviously awake

and talking to them all and she did a

great job of kind of trying to connect

everyone that could possibly help me.

Um, but it was one of those things where

they were having a hard time figuring

out how I got that sick. You know, she

brought up the cut of my elbow. She knew

about that. But then they were asking

all kinds of different questions on,

well, was he doing this or was he doing

that? Like they I think they thought,

hey, this doesn't make sense either, you

know, also.

>> Okay. So, you wake up, you come around.

>> What next,

>> man? So, the first uh you know what's

really funny? you think you're you're

like fully conscious if you will once I

woke up and you know now I look back on

the first I don't know we'll say we'll

say 10 days to two weeks and I was like

holy [ __ ] I was out of my mind I mean

now I get like there's this one two or

three day period where I very vividly

remember I do remember some things that

for sure happened because I went back

and I I cross reference it with people

that were there and I said hey did this

actually happen but then um like I

thought I got transported to this

hospital that was on the lake like half

a mile from my house and there's no

hospital there. That didn't exist. That

was only in my mind for multiple days.

Uh and I I know I kept threatening

I kept threatening the nurses that I was

going to walk home because I was just on

the road.

I couldn't even walk. I couldn't walk.

You know, it's like the thought.

>> It's a lie. It's a lie from every

different direction.

>> Yeah. So, you know, that the first

couple weeks like um you know, I think I

was on so many drugs. I did get off pain

meds relatively quick, but um it's being

the rest of stuff I was on. And then

they call it like delirium because you

don't sleep enough in the you know in

the hospital. Um yeah, I had so many

wild thoughts. Um you know, positive

thing. I had a lot of friends visiting

me. So that's like I know some of the

things that I thought happened did

happen because I said, "Hey, were you

were you there when X Y or Z happened?"

And they said, "Yeah." So I had a lot of

friends visiting me. My wife visited me

almost every day. My mom visited a lot.

My dad. Um, so yeah, just kind of like

waking up and figuring out how to do

everything again because I couldn't

walk, I couldn't feed myself, you know,

it's

>> it's the long list of things you I mean,

I pretty much couldn't do anything by

myself.

>> What was the lowest point that your

health got to when you woke up? Was it

immediate and was it relatively uphill

from there?

>> Well, um, yeah, I didn't really have

anything hugely negative. I guess right

before I woke up, so right after a day

or two, right? Um, so not right before

like minute-wise. Um, I guess I spiked

really bad fever and they didn't know

why and that was scary to everyone

including my wife. Uh, but what as I

woke up, um,

yeah, everything was like I guess it

moved in a positive direction, probably

not nearly as fast as I thought. Um, you

know, a lot of lung transplant patients,

they're on the list for a long time and

their condition is not necessarily like

immediately life scared. Like eventually

it would kill them, but it might take

many years. So they're actually in kind

of like a lot better shape than I was

where I was like near near very near

depth. I lost like 60 pounds for example

of you know muscle while I was muscle

body weight but mostly muscle uh while I

was in the hospital. Um so when I woke

up it did mostly get better. There was a

lot of things like I don't know if you

know what chest tubes are but it took me

forever to get my chest tubes out. I was

the first lung transplant patient that

they sent home with a chest tube in

because I was like you got to let me you

got to let me go.

>> And then yeah, unfortunately I got

infected. I ended up back in the

hospital for two weeks. Um I don't think

of any fault of my own. I think it just

happened and you know then I got stuck

there again for a while. But uh yeah, it

was a process. Took a long time. Um I

didn't start walking on my own for

I think it was roughly two months. Um,

you know, and then even at that point,

like, you know, walking on my own meant

like I go four steps and I'm holding on

to a counter and then I go, you know,

three more step, you know, like it's not

really I'm not like getting around.

>> Um, yeah. And then it was just a

process. And it was like

>> once I became more capable, it's like,

okay, hey, today I want to try to walk

for eight minutes. Walking for eight

minutes is my goal. And then

>> once I got the hang of that, then it's

10 minutes, then it's 12 minutes. And

then I, you know, kind of just keep

building up. And then it's okay. Now I'm

going to try to do some squats which

was, you know, in the beginning I

couldn't get myself off the toilet. I

had to have literally have someone help

me get up. Um, yeah. So that was the

process and uh it's still a process

where I'm and I'm actually getting

better at I feel like still at quite a

rapid rate and I'm 11 over 11 months

out.

>> Mhm. Mhm.

>> Yeah. Most people don't realize how much

being dehydrated impacts their

performance. Which is why for the last 5

years, I've started pretty much every

morning with Element. Element is a tasty

electrolyte drink mix with everything

that you need and nothing that you

don't. This orange salt in a cold glass

of water is like a sweet, salty, orangey

nectar, and I really tell the difference

when I take it versus when I don't. It

plays a critical role in reducing muscle

cramps and fatigue. helps to optimize

brain health and regulate your appetite

while also curbing cravings. Best of

all, they have a no questions asked

refund policy with an unlimited

duration. So, you can buy it and try it

for as long as you want. And if you

don't like it for any reason, they'll

just give you your money back. Plus,

they offer free shipping in the US.

Right now, you can get a free sample

pack of Element's most popular flavors

with your first purchase by going to the

link in the description below or heading

to drinklnt.com/modernwisdom.

That's drinklnt.com/modernwisdom.

What was your main emotion like when you

came back around once you were a little

bit less delirious?

>> Yeah, probably Labbergal. I mean, I

still think about sometimes still I wake

up and think, well, like how did that

happen? Like I have a lung transplant.

Like I never smoked anything in my life.

Like how does someone like me end up

with a lung transplant? So I think like

uh that would probably be the main

emotion of like how did this happen?

This is nuts. Um, and then probably the

second one after that would be like,

okay, what do I got to do? Because

again, this is my new reality. I can't

change it. So, I might as well make the

best of it. So, what is it that I need

to do? And I've probably spent, you

know, I can't tell you how many hours

since I spent 11 months researching,

what do I do about this problem? What do

I do about that problem? And just kind

of like

>> heavy heavy chat GPT user

>> for real chat GPT. If you can ask my

question, uh, you get a lot of

information and then I usually use the

information. I bounce off my doctor and

I say, "Hey, here's what I'm gathering.

What do you think about this?" And Chad

GPT is right. I don't know, we'll

probably say

70 80% of the time. Like it's it's

pretty good. You know, there's a few

things where it kind of really gets it

wrong. Um, so I always obviously cross

cross reference first.

>> Okay. So I you know, the flabbergasted

thing is so funny. I've got this I've

always had this thought in my mind like

I've come off a a moped in Bali. I've

been in a couple of like pretty big car

accidents. like a few things that are

sort of shock

>> kinetic instant or whatever.

>> And you're right, one of the main

emotions is surprise. Like this isn't

this can't be this can't be happening.

And I was thinking to myself, I wonder

>> how many people have died, you know,

from from something horrendous or

accidental. Someone got shot, you know,

crossfire. Somebody got shot and they

just feel the thing go through them and

they look down and they're like,

>> "Have I been

Oh, surely I haven't been f and that's

it. And your last thought isn't

>> Yeah. You know the the movie lying on

the ground looking up telling your last

rights explaining your insights from

it's just did I get [ __ ] shot?

>> Holy [ __ ] I And then it's done. And

it's the same with you. The the main

insight the main was it come back around

and were you fearing for do you see the

the beauty of existence? I I was largely

uh [ __ ] surprised, dude. That was my

main

>> my main sensation.

>> I I would say that, you know, how did

like why am I here? How did this happen?

And surprisingly it

>> and uh that was kind of like me piecing

it together for the first, you know,

handful of days. And then the other one

was what happened while I was asleep,

right? Like I've been asleep for 37

days.

>> What's the What's the Bitcoin price at

please? What's the Bitcoin price? It it

was it was good at that point in time. I

actually missed a whole bunch of really

really important wrestling events in uh

late May and early June. Uh you know, so

there was you know catching up on all

that because I was not awake for a

single day of June. Um and then you know

going through the kind of order of

events of what happened to me and and

there was there was a bunch of really

amazing things like um there's so many

people supported um either through

prayer or helping my family in some way

shape or form or meals because you know

my wife is then obviously there's not a

father in the household because I'm in

the hospital. Uh my wife is spending a

large portion of her time at the

hospital with me.

>> Um so you know my kids are all on summer

break. is not even like they go to

school. So, you know, who who's going to

take care of them, who can help out with

them. So, usually my wife and my mom and

my dad would kind of like uh alternate

who's at the hospital, but then we had a

whole bunch of friends and family

helping out with our kids and stuff. And

uh we tried to keep it as normal as

possible for them. You know, you don't

want them at home thinking every day,

hey, my dad might die. Like,

>> you don't want that. So, we you know, we

tried to tell them, hey, well, not I

didn't do [ __ ] my wife, I tell him,

"Hey, he's sick and he's at the

hospital." And, you know, kind of leave

it a little bit vague and open-ended

like that.

>> So,

I guess, you know, you look across at

somebody that's had a career as an

athlete that that's over overcome lots

of challenges and difficulty and

training sessions from being a kid to

being a teenager to a young athlete to a

veteran athlete in all these different

sports and wrestling and MMA and Da

boxing.

How much of that were you able to draw

on when it came to

recovery and resilience?

>> All of it. 100%. I mean, um, you know,

because the the main thing is I mean,

it's been I said it's been 11 months. I

probably felt really good for for a

handful of those days, you know, like

you know, even today uh I'll just say

today I'm 11 months out. I'm having a

pretty good day. But, you know, for a

while before the show actually, um, you

know, it was like my breathing just

wasn't as good sometimes. I don't know

if it's the allergies or I don't know

what the issue. It just feels weird

sometimes, you know. Um, and then

obviously earlier on it was it was a lot

more things than that. It wasn't wasn't

only that. So, the amount of days I felt

really good since then has been very

limited. And so, it's, you know, even on

the days where you don't feel good, are

you going to get up and do something?

because you just sit on the couch,

you're you're not going to get better.

And so even on the days you don't feel

good, maybe you're not going to do as

much as you had planned, but you're

still going to do something. And that's

kind of, you know, where where I was at

for a long time. And, you know, now it's

like, I feel mostly pretty good there.

You know, there'll be a little something

here and there pretty much every single

day. But it's like, okay, well, if I

don't feel good at 10:00 a.m., I'm going

to go get my workout at 2 pm or, you

know, like I'm but I am going to work

out. and I'm going to train and I'm

going to do my breathing exercises and

I'm, you know, there's handful of other

medical things that I have to do. I'm

going to do them every day. I'm not

going to miss it. Um, so I've been very

disciplined and regimented in that. And

obviously that came from my my life as

an athlete, uh, being very disciplined,

very regimented in that. Uh, it just

crossed over kind of exactly.

>> What did your weight get down to? What

was the smallest the lowest weight?

>> The lowest was 138. So it's like skin

and bones.

>> And what did you fight at? I fought at

170, but I was uh I got I'll be I got on

some TRT, so I got a little bit bigger.

My normal walking weight was probably uh

you know when I was fighting 185ish plus

or minus a few pounds and then as I

retired I was probably you know 195ish

somewhere somewhere in there. So

>> best part 50% best part of 50%.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So uh yes quite quite quite

the draw down in weight. Um, and it was

just like I said, I mean, I don't I

don't have my wife has pictures. Skin

skin and bones really is kind of what I

was.

>> Is that because you're not moving and

not consuming any calories other than

what they need to keep you alive? Is

that why?

>> Um, I I think they're not move, you

know, never looked all the way to this.

I got some good guesses. Number one,

you're not moving. I mean, I told you

like they literally paralyzed me. But

there was other times when um I would

wake up and I would just like I don't

recall this but I would not be happy

about that fact

all my arms you know I try to like move

and then that would uh spike my heart

rate and then that would cause my

breathing capacity my uh what is it

called oxygenation or whatever that to

drop right and that was really

problematic I guess for a while they

even have me me strapped down so I

couldn't really move at all um yeah so

that was kind of the that was kind of

the the deal with that. So uh and then I

do believe predinazone which I'm still

on and why I don't be on for the rest of

my life probably unfortunately. Um I

believe that has some uh some capacity

of where it eats your muscles a little

bit.

>> What's that do? That's a

>> penisone.

>> Yeah.

>> It's some I don't know exactly which

part of the imunosuppression it is but

it's an amosuppressant. So with the with

a transplant patient um your body will

see the uh transplanted organ as a

foreign body and it will attack it. So

they need to essentially tamp down your

immune system kind of permanently

>> which is why flight for you and being in

different places is more dangerous

because you don't have an immune if you

had an immune system that could protect

you from getting sick it would also be

the same immune system that would attack

your new lungs.

>> Yep. 100%. So I I you know I try to stay

out of areas where there's a lot of

people where I don't like have I don't

think so control of the area of what's

my surroundings are.

>> Unfortunately I wear a mask a lot which

is you know that's kind of

>> co again baby

>> I made fun of the mask people for sure

and I'm a m I'm a mask person

that's that's no good. Um

>> yeah but it is getting better. I'm I'm

coming down like uh the levels of

imunosuppression you're on. As you get

further out and you get healthier, they

they do come down quite a bit. So you

you kind of hit a bounce back. So I've

gotten, you know, for example, last

couple weeks I've gotten uh lower on my

you guys

and tacrolymus. I mean that's fun

talking about medicine, but I come down

on those a little bit. So uh that means

you know my energy and my indiscretion

go up. And I think uh you know my year

anniversary is coming up in about 3

weeks and I'll probably I'll hopefully

get down even a little more potentially.

>> Unreal. Okay. What um I'm interested in

what

matters to you more or less now than it

did before.

>> Yeah. Um

you know what I I I said this uh you

know if I would have died uh when I went

to the hospital nurse I walked in the

hospital I don't remember anything. If I

would have died there, which I came

pretty close to, um, I had a great life.

Like, I really got to do what I love for

uh, for a living and coaching wrestling,

running the wrestlingmies. I think it's

very meaningful work and that you're

helping the next generation of young

person not only get better at wrestling,

but get better at life. Um, I love my

wife. I have a great family. So I was

really lucky in that I was it didn't

take me to die to figure out that oh I

have a bunch of misguided priorities

like I think my priorities were were

pretty good. I was pretty you know

reflectively so I can reflect on hey if

I would have died what do I think about

what I had done to that point. Um so I

felt really good about that. I do think

I became maybe u more patient um have

more gratitude for sure and that's you

know I don't think that was a category

maybe I was lacking in prior but I think

maybe more I feel even more strongly.

>> Um

>> I became a Christian which uh I would

say prior I was kind of Christian

adjacent like I went to church for 16

years or so but just you know it didn't

kind of click all the way. Um, so that

would be, you know, a probably a big

change I would say. So kind of those

things, but I was I was proud of the

life I was living prior to this. And I

think all the positive things have just

been kind of uh ramped up. And I think I

guess I think one other one that I would

mention there is, you know, I I invested

in some businesses. Um, and I like all

the people who are running them, but it

if it took my time, even if it was just,

hey, I meet I meet with the founder once

a month or whatever. if it took my time

and I wasn't really passionate about it.

I said I asked a few different people

like hey can can I get out like

>> I'll I'll make a deal whatever you know

whatever you feel is fair give me what's

fair and I just I just want to take a

few more things off of my plate. Um and

I I kind of feel strongly about that.

You know I get some offers to do things

now and I'm just like is this what I

really really really 100% want to do

with my life? Is this worth the time

away from my kids and my family? And if

the answer is no then I generally choose

not to do it. Have you seen Peiquey

Blinders the series?

>> No, I haven't, but I I know Spongebob

wrestlers are really big fans of it, so

I've heard references, but I've never

watched it.

>> Really cool BBC series. And uh in it,

the main guy and his brother, they

nearly die at the Battle of the Som in

World War I, and they're I think they're

called clay kickers. So they dig tunnels

to try and get into the enemy uh trench

from underneath as opposed to going over

the top. And sometimes they the two

tunnels cross over each other and then

they have fights inside of the [ __ ]

tunnels. It's crazy. And um

>> it is crazy.

>> He uh him and his brother basically

nearly died at the Battle of the Psalm

and they've got this line where they

they sort of turn to each other and say

everything after that was extra.

Everything after that was extra. And it

kind of sounds like that's how you see

this period now. That I was I was

>> happy. I mean I didn't want to die. It

would have been optimal for me to have

not died and I'm glad that I didn't. But

had I have done, I'd lived a pretty good

life up until then. But even though I'd

lived a pretty good life, there's still

some adjustments that I want to make in

order to learn the lessons about

prioritizing my time and what I was

going to miss most now that I've got now

that this is extra.

>> Yeah. No. Uh yeah, that's that's pretty

accurate with uh with how I feel and how

I view it. And I want to make the most

of the extra. you know what the

statistics on lung transplants now I

don't necessarily know that they apply

to me for a variety of reasons which we

can go go through if you'd like to it's

kind of boring but uh the medium life

expectancy is only six and a half years

uh which isn't long um I don't think

that's going to apply to me fully

because a lot of them are older

unhealthy

>> you mean an ex-professional athlete who

didn't get it because he was smoking and

was like in the midst of some of the

best [ __ ] health of his life

>> yes so so you get it so uh Actually, the

longest living person post double lung

transplant is 38 years. So, that's kind

of my goal. Uh, it's 39, at least 39.

Um, but yeah, everything now is extra

and it's kind of reformatted me. So, the

number one thing I I love to do is my

brother and I have wrestlingmies. Um, we

have nine of them now in the state of

Wisconsin, but the very favorite part of

that is actually coaching the athletes.

Um, and so, you know, that's the thing I

want to spend the most time on, uh, from

a work perspective. Um, and then

obviously, you know, with my my family

and doing that type of thing. And it's

one of those that was weird because,

you know, I never really thought twice

about, but, you know, part of the

wrestling academy thing is you you

travel on a lot of weekends sometimes to

go coach kids. And I I honestly it's

this weird thing because I love it and I

miss it a lot. And um but then it's like

well I realized how much I was kind of

missing at home or when my wife had to

be you know especially a single mother I

go to a big tournament. Now it's not

saying I'm never going to do that again.

I am going to do it. I'll probably just

do it a little bit less than I had

previously. Um so to make sure I'm

around for more of my kids stuff and

then obviously now my daughter's 13 and

she really likes wrestling. So there's

going to be a probably a good

opportunity for me to spend a bunch of

time with her. Too bad. Um, but yeah, so

definitely not going to waste my time on

things that that I don't love and that

I'm not really passionate about. Um, and

that's kind of probably the biggest

thing.

>> This episode is brought to you by Gym

Shark. If you're going to spend an hour

in the gym, you might as well look hot

and feel comfortable while you're doing

it. Gym Shark makes the best men's and

women's training gear on the planet. And

here is something I realized a few years

into training. When you actually like

what you're wearing in the gym, you show

up differently. You train harder, you

stay longer, you get way more high

fives. Their hybrid shorts are unreal.

They're the perfect length. They're

super lightweight. They're easy to wash

and dry. And their sleeveless t-shirts

are basically what I've trained in every

day for a year now. They're the ideal

fit. They're breathable, and they hold

their shape perfectly. So, no more

looking like Adam Sandlers, your

stylist. Basically, everything they sell

is unbelievable, well-designed, high

quality, and you get 30-day free returns

globally with global shipping, plus a

10% discount sitewide. Right now, you

can get 10% off everything by going to

the link in the description below or

heading to jim.sh/modernwisdom

and using the code modernwisdom10 a

checkout. That's jim.sh/modernwisdomd

and modernwis wisdom10 a checkout. Has

your definition of success changed since

that?

>> Um, you know, I've been thinking about

this a lot actually because I don't know

if you if you saw or heard, but I'm I'm

wrestling next month. Um, and the reason

I was wrestling was they told me, so I I

actually work for RAF and it's going

tremendously well. And one of my life

goals, and this is something where it's

like, I'm not going to work for RAF

forever. Um, because it's not the one

thing I want to do, but one of my life

goals was to start a legitimate

professional wrestling organization in

America that could run on its own and

give athletes the opportunity to compete

at professionals. RAF is doing freaking

amazing job. I mean, they're they're

doing better. I should say we are doing

better than I ever could imagine this

quickly. It's fascinating. Um, but when

they told me they're coming to my

hometown on my birthday, something,

right? It's like, okay, I I got to get

out there and I gota I got to make it

happen. Um, and so that's kind of been a

really big driver for me is just and a

big part of it is me helping other

people. And I I listen I get messages

pretty much every single day on

Instagram at this point of hey your

journey has inspired me. Um and I think

I was giving

Sorry I'm giving a very long-winded

answer but I think that's okay on this

podcast.

So your journey inspired me. I've been

saying the same things for 15 years. But

I think you know when I'm on tops right

so I'm winning MMA titles and I'm we got

the best wrestling academy in America. I

think people it resonates to a one way

and then they see you dying and on your

deathbed and trying to climb out of this

hole and you're saying the exact same

things. I think it resonates and

motivates in a different type of way.

Not this guy doesn't just talk about it.

This guy is about it, right? He he

understands what what adversity is. He

understands what hardship is. And when

he had met adversity and hardship, he

reacted the exact same way that he said

he would. So I'm not just talking about

it. I am about it. Um, so me being able

to climb my way out of this hole and

live a I will say relatively normal

life, you know, this never it's never

going to be all the way back to normal,

but as close to normal as possible. Um,

I think that's very inspiring for people

and uh

>> the So then my thought on that was uh I

don't know how you feel about this guy.

He's very controversial, but RFK um

thumbs up or thumbs down for him.

>> Um I I've been to dinner with him. He

was a nice guy. like he's got some he's

got some wacky beliefs, but he's also

managed to get the food pyramid to be

the right way around for the first time

in [ __ ] American history. You know,

it's it's same as everybody.

>> So, I would think well, one of the

things I think about him is this guy has

an immense amount of courage and

fearlessness. And I say this to people,

I say,

>> think about if you grew up and you

watched your father be murdered and you

watched your uncle be murdered and you

still had the courage to put yourself in

the line of fire, right? right? Because

there's a lot of people who don't like

him right now and you you watch that

happen to your father and your your

uncle and you still are willing to have

the courage to do that. That that's

amazing. I don't I don't care what you

think about the rest of what he says.

That is that's very powerful. And he

always references the sysphus, right,

where the guy rolls the ball uphill only

for it to roll down every single day and

then he starts over. And then you know

the kind of message of it to me is that

there's something very powerful in just

showing up and having a great attitude

and working hard every single day even

if you're maybe not going to get the

fruits of your labors at the end of it

because every day the the boulder rolls

back down and he shows up and he works

again every single day. And for most

people

um they're not going to end up without

any fruits of their labor, right? Uh, so

you know, they roll the boulder up the

hill, it's generally going to go

somewhere and they may not get every

single thing they want in life, but

they're going to, if you do that, you

wake up with a great attitude and you

work pretty hard every day, you're going

to end up with a pretty good life that

you're pretty proud of.

>> Um, so I think about that a lot.

>> Why do you think wrestling produces such

mentally tough people compared to a lot

of other sports?

>> Uh, I think it's the best. Uh, I think

it's, uh, I speak on this topic a lot. I

may be biased because I run

wrestlingmies, but I think there is no

greater impact on a child's life uh than

wrestling. I think it wrestling is a

microcosm of life. Um I think there's a

few qualities that maybe you don't get

from wrestling, but most of them you do.

Um and that is you are going to have

hardship. You are going to have

sacrifice. If you're going to lead any

type of meaningful life, it's not going

to be sunshine and rainbows the entire

time. And so, um, you know, going to

wrestling, it's a level of humility

because you're never going to be the

best one in the room. And, and if you're

the best one in that room, you're going

to go find another room that you're not

the best in. And it's not like, hey,

you're not the best. Go sit on the

bench. You can go watch everyone else.

No, you're not the best. Now, you're

going to get your face rubbed in the

back by someone who's better than you,

and they're going to force you to be

humble. Um, so I think you know, uh,

hard work, discipline, perseverance

because you you're inevitably going to

get knocked down and have times of

hardship and adversity. Um, uh,

self-reliance is a big one. It's it's

only you out there. There's no one else

to save you. There's no team. There's no

nothing else. Humility. Uh, I I think

these all these qualities uh, can make a

really really well-rounded human being.

>> Yeah. I I mean I look at a lot of other

combat sports, a lot of other sports in

general, and everybody learns something,

especially the consistency,

>> the routine, but

maybe it's a selection effect. Maybe

it's just that the sorts of parents that

put their kids in or the sorts of young

guys and girls that decide that they're

going to go into wrestling, they just

whatever it is about making that

decision, select for a particular cohort

of people that are kind of stubborn and

routinized and insane. But

>> I don't know this look at look at even

the UFC which is you know the

>> I speak to that for sure. I'll tell I'll

I'll tell you that one for sure because

obviously I trained at a mixed martial

arts gym for a long time uh and we run

wrestling academy. The expectation of

the parent coming into those two

different places is totally different

right so the expectation of a parent

coming into ask wrestling academy is hey

I want my kid to learn how to wrestle. I

want them to learn some discipline and

some hard work and get a little tougher.

And you know what? If they do really

well, maybe they'll win a state title or

get a college scholarship or something

to that effect. And in MM MMA gym, so

many times I thought, "Oh, my kid, he's

really tough and scrappy. He's going to

be the next star on TV and make a whole

bunch of money."

>> Um, and so, right, the expectation of

the two different parents doing the two

different things is is immense. Um, and

I think that's probably a big part of it

is what I would guess. What would be

your advice to a parent hoping to make

their child's fame and fortune by

getting them to do MMA?

>> That is about the worst job you could.

I mean, I tell I tell everyone that MMA

is is an awful job. Um, you do it you do

it in my this is my estimation. I did it

because I wanted to fight people because

I like fighting people because I love

the combat. That's why I did it. But if

I wanted to have a real profession and

real job, I for sure would have done

something else. Um, I always walk

through someone. If you said, Chris came

to me and said, "Hey, Ben, I want to be

an MMA fighter. What do you think about

that?" I said, "Number one, it's dumb.

Here's why." Chris, you're going to

start training. You're probably not

gonna take a fight for a year. Okay,

good. Then you take an amateur fight.

Your amateur fights, that's going to

take you probably two years to get

through. Okay, once you become a pro,

now you're going to have, say, two to

three years of lowlevel uh professional

fight. Okay, if that six years goes

perfect, now you're going to sign to

UFC. And in your first year in the UFC,

if you win all your fights, this is this

is seven years of perfection. Nothing

went wrong in seven years,

>> you're going to make like $80,000. Okay?

But of the $80,000, you got to pay your

gym, you got to pay your manager, and

you got to pay taxes. So you're you're

walking home with, I don't know, 35

$40,000 at that point. And well, if you

don't live in California, in California,

you're probably walking home like

$27,000. That's not a good job. Um, so

you know, I' I've only ever recommended

two people and it's relatively well for

them because I saw they had a small

amigdala and they was just a little

different. They wanted to fight people.

>> How how much of your success do you

think came from talent?

>> Zero. I don't believe it exists.

>> You don't believe that talent exists?

>> I do not. And this is You know what?

This is hilarious. I'm thankful my wife

my wife is off uh You know what we're

do? We're in Kansas City. We came here

after I got inducted all of fame in

Oklahoma and came to Kansas City. My

wife has a 104 year old grandfather. So

we're visiting him. Um so they're

actually playing bingo with him right

now. My wife my kids.

>> Fantastic.

>> I know. Great. Right. Um yeah. So I my

main argument with my wife is is the

talent one. I don't I do not think it

exists. I think obviously human bodies

have predispositions to certain things

and there are certain sports which are

very predisposed but uh when I think

about talent I think of the ability to

do a complex task really really well. I

don't think you can do a complex task

really really well without a high level

of training. Um, and one of the things

before we argue this, I don't know if

you're going to argue with me or not,

but one of the things I always argue

prior is if we were to test talent, we

would need to test talent out of the

womb. When they pop out of their mom, we

need to test it because I always say,

"Hey, if I give you two kids come into

Ask Wrestling Academy, one kid has been

sitting on a couch playing video games,

his parents feeding him snacks all day,

never teaching him discipline. He's a

roly pololy. Listen, he needs some

wrestling. We're going to take care of

him. we're going to give him what he

needs, but he's starting way over there.

If you have another seven-year-old who's

never wrestled, both both have never

wrestled, but he's got older brothers.

They've tried to beat him up. He his

parents live a very active lifestyle.

They're outside. They're hiking. They

climbing trees. He's biking. He's

playing games with his brother. He's not

sitting inside. They have healthy,

nutritious food. These are two

seven-year-olds. Neither have ever

wrestled, but they are worlds apart

right now from from jump, you know. So

that's kind of how I like to think about

it. So we can debate if you if you you'd

like to.

>> No, I look I I think that especially in

the sport of wrestling perhaps something

that you begin with so early on in life.

I mean look, some people are literally

built differently to others. Some people

will respond to training in different

sorts of ways. When you really start to

ask what is involved in talent and if

you were to think about something like

desire to train as a kind of talent,

some people just really like wrestling.

They enjoy the idea of that. Other

people might enjoy something really

short. They might enjoy something that's

less aggressive, right? They might be a

a world champion classical musicianist,

right? A classical pianist or violinist

or something like that. Uh I don't think

that if you just give those two people

even with their desire to work hard and

their stubbornness and all the rest of

this

>> if you don't have the desire so it's an

interesting question is desire to train

part of talent right people have a

disposition to

>> I would say I would say yes I say yes

that's been that that that argument has

been proven by uh the sled dogs do you

know this one

>> no

>> the the Idrod sled dogs uh right that

they run that big race across Alaska

>> Mhm. Um, so they they breed obviously

breed the dogs and the dogs I think can

have a baby like every year or

something. So they don't breed the

fastest ones and they don't breed the

strongest one. They breed the ones with

the most desire to keep running. And so

to to your point there's but so so what

I would say what I would say to that is

it and so again like 100 meter dash or

something that's a really really simple

skill like that is not uh a very complex

task but a complex path there's likely a

multitude of things that it's going to

take to be world class at that. So,

you're going to have to have, you know,

work ethic, perseverance, desire to

work, to your point. Um, probably some

level of intellect helps, some level of

hand eye coordination helps. Like, you

know, there's just going to be this

really large basket of, hey, you need

extra amount of this skill set, but

which ones do you need? Like in

wrestling, for example, um I was

incredibly slow twitch muscle fiber. My

my fastest ever 40 yard dash was like a

5'8. like I am I am incredibly slow,

>> but I found a way to make it work.

There's also wrestlers who are

incredibly explosive and fast to find a

way to make that work. Um, so you know,

like of this basket of things that you

can have, you may need, I we'll say 20

of 25, but you don't need every one and

you could kind of pick and choose from

them. Um, so yeah, I I think it's an

interesting topic. So obviously I would

absolutely I would say people obviously

predisposed to being born differently

but I I also think the early period in

life is often neglected. There's another

you guys you know about the Polar

sisters.

>> Nope.

>> Yo man, we uh So the Polar Okay, let me

make sure I'm pretty sure I'm 100% right

this uh let me make sure. So this guy uh

Yep. I'm correct. Okay. So this guy he

said I don't think talent exists and I'm

going to prove it. You know how he's

going to prove it? He puts an ad out and

he says, "I need a wife who wants to

help me make babies to be chess champion

>> and he finds and he finds one, right?"

So, he finds a wife to agree to these

terms that okay, we're we're going to

we're going to procreate and then my

kids are going to be chess champions.

So, he he he called the shot. He says it

before he even has kids, he says and his

his three girls, I want to say, were the

three of the five highest rated players

of all time. Wow. So he called it before

he appropriate.

>> Jesus Christ. Okay. Well, yeah, if you

if you can pick the pocket before you

pot the eight. Uh, that's that's

>> fair play. Jared, you ever considered

that you might have a drinking problem?

>> I don't consider a lot, Chris.

>> Well, you drank an entire case of

Athletic Brewing last night.

>> But they're non-alcoholic.

>> And that's not a problem.

>> Sorry, man. I I just kept chugging. Wait

for the regret to creep in. never

happened. See, most people like Jared

don't want to change what they drink.

They just don't want the next day to be

a complete write-off. And that is why

I'm such a huge fan of Athletic Brewing

Co. They make the best NA brews on the

planet.

You can find Athletic Brewing Co.'s

bestselling lineup at grocery or liquor

stores near you. Or best option, get a

full variety pack of four flavors

shipped direct to your door right now.

Get 15% off your first online order by

going to the link in the description

below or heading to

athleticbwing.com/modernwisdom

using the code modernwisdom at checkout.

That's athletic brewing.com/modwisdom

at modernwisdom at checkout. Near beer,

terms and conditions apply. Athletic

brewing company fit for all times.

Bottoms up.

So, I I'm interested like looking back

at your um at your career, you went

undefeated for 87 matches in a row.

>> Yeah. My this is my last two years in

college. Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> What What goes through your mind when

you're on a streak like that? Like, do

you get increasingly more scared of

losing it? A pressure sort of over the

top of of things like that?

>> Don't think about it. If you did, if you

did, you did, you're going to lose it.

um you know so I actually I I wrote two

I've written two books now uh with

assistance of course because I am not a

great writer uh one is about my life one

is about my sports psychology ideas but

my junior and senior year I actually

tried writing um another book uh which

is about so it would have been my first

book right never published it because I

didn't think it turned out good enough

but I worked with this sports psychology

PhD and one of the things we did we sent

a questionnaire to every division one

NCA champion in the past 50 years So, at

that point, it was 1956 to06 with a

50-year window. Um, because I I said,

you know, I know what I think, but I

want more good opinions. So, we sent

them this questionnaire. I think it was

like 12 questions. Um, and one of the

questions, which was this was really

enlightening to me because at that

point, I already had one NCA title. I

was going on my second and one of the

questions was when did you go from good

to great? And we were looking for some

form of my training ch training changed.

I got a new coach. I had a new mindset.

Just some something like what made this

happen and you know when did it happen

for you specifically? And it was really

funny because that the question was

simple. Question was we want this and we

got something totally different and it

was the mo it was a question that was

answered the most similarly of any

questions. Right? So if we got 100

questionnaire 120 questionnaires back

you know it's they're all open-ended

questions. So you're going to get things

that are, you know, across the gamut of

what's going on.

So many of them said, "Your question

assumes I was great. I never reached

greatness, but right." So they they all

these people who were and if you want to

look at wrestling, a division one state

champion is like in the 99.999th

percentile. You know, we're talking like

one of a 100 thousand. There's there's

roughly a million people wrestling in

America today. There's 10 NCA champions.

one in a 100 thousand approximately or

something. So if you're going to label

greatness, they're clearly in it. And

they all were saying, not all, okay, not

all, a very large percentage saying some

form of I'm not great. I was never

great. And so as we read through those

answers, it it struck me, okay, well, I

wouldn't say title. So by my own

definition, I would be great. I've never

even thought about I never thought I

never considered it. All I was thinking

about was how do I get better? How do I

beat this next person as badly as

possible? And so it's one of those

things where the I realized that power

was in not thinking about it like to

just be focused on the task ahead of you

as opposed to and you know like one of

the things that I I get annoyed about um

is if people say what is your legacy my

legacy is not determined by me my my

legacy will be determined by what all

the other people think about me I'm

going to focus on every single day what

I think I need to do to get better and

what I need to do is for what's best in

my life and whatever they want to think

of me they think of me. So, that's kind

of how all these people are thinking is

like I've just focused on getting better

and I'm not worried about being great as

you would call it. Um, and I think

that's like really really powerful.

>> Yeah, that's fascinating. I

I guess the obsession to just be riven

by always wanting to improve is exactly

why those people are separated out from

the pack. You could probably ask, you

know what would be interesting would be

to ask people who didn't become uh NCAA

champions but were maybe in the top 2%

and ask them when they think they became

great. And they might be more likely to

answer, oh, I became great at this

point. Perhaps the lack of thinking that

you're great is what actually induces

greatness.

>> That totally you you I'm sure you've

heard the phrase, oh man, rest in peace.

My old coach Duke group should say this.

Um, if you're if you're green, you're

growing. Oh, what was this phrase? It

was essentially if you're green, you're

growing. So, if you're you have a white

belt mentality, dang, I can't believe I

just forgot what he said all the time.

Oh my goodness. Essentially, if you're

you're green, you're growing. Like, if

you if you believe you're white belt and

you're open to knowledge and learning

people, you're going to continue to get

better. But when when you think uh you

know it all or you're good enough, then

you're going to start declining. And so,

you know, with our wrestling academy

now, we've been open for 15 years and

especially in the early days before we

were as influential because now a lot of

times we have kids from the time they're

real little, five, six, seven years old.

Um, but previously we saw certain kids

say, "Oh, I want a sectional title. I'm

I'm I don't need to listen to you. I'm

really good. I want a sectional title or

I want a state title. I'm really really

good." When you know, we talk about

state title and state champion. These

are these are they're not even in the

same ballpark. So yeah, I would 100%

agree with once people think they made

it or they think they know everything or

know enough or they can't be helped uh

then generally there's some type of

either plateauing feature or decline

that happens uh in their skill ability.

>> People I think even have a sense of this

when they look at the trajectory of a

any any person that's on a pursuit to

life. The difference between being

someone

who has fallen off and someone that

never made it is kind of fascinating to

me. There's a obviously the person who

fell off by virtue of having fallen, it

means that at some point they were up

pretty high,

>> but there there is a kind of

additional disparagement of oh, you had

it and you lost it as opposed to you

never even got it. Even though like

objectively you did better, but we're so

seduced and we are we're so enamored and

enthralled by the prospect of momentum

and and potential that if the direction

of travel is declining, it's going from

you were great to now you're less great

than you were as opposed to you were

average and then you became better than

average and then you kind of stopped. I

yeah

>> in some ways yeah the the person who

never made it but didn't get chance to

fall off is in a a preferable position

sometimes

>> man that that's one where I would just

say you just got to ignore everyone else

uh because I agree you know so many

times people use the term washed up to

your point that means at some point they

had to be significantly better than they

currently are but t time's undefeated no

one's been great forever and so u you

know I I did retire I retired for the

first time in 2017 I never got to fight

the better guys. So I said if I ever do,

I'll come back out of retirement. I

unretired 2018. Then I had issues. So I

retired relatively quickly again after

that. Um but I always just, you know, if

someone wants to continue to fighting,

which listen, I'm not fighting is a very

tough sport. So let's go to football. If

Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady, if they want

to continue to compete, like what's

wrong with them continuing to try to

Yeah. They're not going to be as good at

43 as they were at 28 or 32 or something

obviously, but who cares? Like they're

still they're still elite enough to be

in one of the top 32 positions in the

NFL, right? That you got to be top 32

quarterbacks to play on the field. If

you're not, you're not going to be on

the field. Um so that's something that's

like, well, that's an opinion of other

people. And if you want to keep playing

football or whatever sport it is,

whatever you're doing, then by all

means, like have at us.

>> Yeah. Well, I you're kind of on that. I

suppose you were nearly You were

undefeated for almost a decade, right?

Pretty much almost a decade. But many

casual fans remember you for one

5-second knockout.

>> Yeah.

>> What's that taught you about reputation?

>> I ignored it in the first place and I

can ignore it.

>> So, u yeah, I just never I never thought

too much about it. I mean for me I love

to compete and I wanted to prove I was

the best and that's why I you know I

retired and I said the only one coming

back out is I get to fight someone high

ranked higher than me. So um you know I

when I was fighting through the Bellator

and won championship days um I fought a

fair amount of highly ranked guys. Jay

Haron was fairly highly ranked. I fought

him. Douglas Lima um there was kind of a

handful but I I never got to fight

anyone who was in the top five. And so I

was like I think I got stuck at six.

So when I came out, you know, I

unretired. I said, "Well, I'm I only

want to fight someone better than me. I

don't want to fight anyone that's worse

than me because I want to try to prove

I'm number one." And so, you know, right

away it was Robbie Haller, who was I

don't know if he's number two or number

three in the world at that point in

time. But yeah, and that was one where I

think a lot of people and some people

did advise me, well, don't do this. If

you lose, people will think differently

about you. And I said, I don't give a

damn what people think about me. I never

started MMA to care about what people

thought about me. I started MMA to see

if I could be the best in the world at

it. And that's what I that's what I want

to do and that's what I'm gonna do. And

I listen, I didn't get there. I got

pretty freaking close. Um, but no, I'm

not ashamed about that at all.

>> I kind of been, as I was thinking,

watching your journey, seeing that first

video you posted, which was like

inspiring and harrowing in equal parts.

Mhm.

>> You have this opportunity for your life

to be defined by a variety of different

situations.

>> Mhm.

>> You had the opportunity for your career

to be defined by being a NCAA champion

in 87 undefeated fights in a row.

>> You had the opportunity to be defined by

being only the sixth best in the world

in one championship and not pivoting on

to something else. You had the

opportunity to be defined by the fastest

knockout. The opportunity to be defined

by boxing Jake Paul. the opportunity now

to be defined by being the guy that

overcame death and got two new lungs and

then went back and wrestled within the

space of only a year.

>> At each of these junctures, you the

world is sort of offering you this

opportunity to make your life about a

thing and

>> I it seems to me like you're continuing

to like stick your middle finger up at

the handshake.

>> Yeah, that's that that's not what life

is about. like legacy is defined by

other people if they want to. If they

and if they don't want to think about

me, I don't I don't really care. I hope

they have a great life and I'm going to

continue to live life the way I want to

and as full as I can. And um you know I

I I I don't know if people consciously

think this about me, but I think there

are a lot of people who I don't inspired

might be the right word by

how not bashful I am towards that. Like

I'm going to take a chance. If you offer

me a chance, I'm going to take a chance

all every time. And I'm going to tell

you, I don't need anything given to me

in life. All I need is an opportunity.

And if you give me an opportunity, I'm

going to take it. And am I going to win

every time? No, I'm not. Or any of us

going to win every time. No, we're not.

And you know, there's uh there's

actually this really good book. Have you

ever have you read I don't know if you

uh how you feel about this guy, but I

like him. And I got to meet him and he's

very cool. His name is Josh Medaf. He

wrote Childwood Carry Water. Um really

good really good book. Um, and then but

then it was funny because he's written a

handful books, most notable one was

Chocolate Carry Water, but then he wrote

a book called Finish Empty and it was

life from a death bed's perspective and

it came out right around the time I

almost died. And so, uh, I got to read

it with literally a deathbed perspective

because I woke up I want to say it was

May, you know, I don't know, I don't

know the exact date it came out. I got

it maybe a month and a half to two

months after everything went down, you

know. And one of the one of the really

amazing quotes uh that it just sticks in

my head, so I better get it right is uh

the point of life is not to arrive

safely at death. I think

>> 95% of people don't get enough fiber,

which is why Momentous built Fiber Plus.

Because hitting your daily fiber target

through food alone is actually kind of

hard, even harder than your last toilet

trip. Fiber isn't just a digestion

thing. It's the foundation of your gut

health, which drives how well you absorb

nutrients, how stable your energy is,

and how quickly you recover. If your gut

isn't dialed, everything else you're

doing is working at a fraction of its

potential. Fiber Plus is a threein-one

formula built to address digestion, gut

barrier strength, and blood sugar

stability all at once. That's why I plan

to make my next big dump momentous.

Best of all, they offer a 30-day money

back guarantee. So, you can buy it and

try it for 29 days, and if you don't

love it, they'll give you your money

back. Plus, they ship internationally.

Right now, you can get up to 35% off

your first subscription and that 30-day

money back guarantee by going to the

link in the description below or heading

to livemus.com/modernwisdom

and using the code modernwisdom a

checkout. That's l i v o m n

o.com/modernwisdom

and modern wisdom a checkout. You've got

this line. The point of life is not to

arrive safely at death.

>> Stop worrying about things and get to

action.

>> Yeah. And there's another good one.

There's another really good one in

there. Hopefully I get um worrying is

like a rocking chair. You can move all

day, but you ain't going anywhere.

>> Right. So, stop worrying about things.

Go make it happen. And that's kind of

that's kind of how I live my life prior

to this. And now it's even like, dude,

I'm yeah, that that's how I'm going to

do it. And you know, I uh like I said, I

take my medicine every day. I wear my

mask when I have to. I'm going to try

not to be reckless with my livelihood. I

my my plan is to be the longest living

double lung transplant person ever. for

that. That is my goal in my

>> Do you know what the record is?

>> 38 years. So I'm going 39, baby.

>> Wow. And how old would you how old would

you be?

>> Uh I'd be 80. So you know, um yeah, that

would be uh that'd be that'd be a good

good life. And you know, I honestly I

figure if I make it like 15 20 more

years, there's going to be some new

technology. They're they're already

starting to build organs with uh your

own stem cells, I believe, is what

they're doing. And so that would also

get me off the the imunosuppressants

because those pills over.

>> So you're suggesting that you would get

another lung transplant.

>> Yeah.

>> You'd be you'd be down for that. You'd

go through it again.

>> Oh, absolutely. I mean because the

imunosuppressants

um are they're a decent portion of the

reason why life expectancy is not that

high because when you kill your immune

system, you cause a whole bunch of other

problems, right? Um, and

>> so I don't know that, you know, they're

they are they're literally building

organs with stem cells and your your own

DNA. Um, they're probably not very good

at it. Yes. But

>> dude, I get the sense if if there's a

list of people that they want to test

this on as a good case study. I reckon

an ex-professional athlete is probably

pretty high up. And I don't know how

many ex-professional athletes at your

level have had

>> like how no one's going to be I'll

volunteer. I'll volunteer to have the

lung transplant from my real ones to my

fake real ones.

>> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Uh

>> told my doctor, Irish Chris, I already

told my doctor, I said, "Hey, man. Uh

one of my doctors is pretty young and

he's I don't say progressive like you

could tell he wants to make it happen

and he wants to make, you know, life

better for all the lung transplant

patients." And I said, "Hey, man. You

got any ideas that you think are going

to work? Run them by me because you're

not going to find anyone more

disciplined and I'm down for it. If you

think it's going to help me live longer,

I will I will run that protocol. So, you

just let me know.

>> [ __ ] yeah.

>> Yeah,

>> dude. You're you're an inspiration, man.

You always were. But this is

>> it's another level. So, I'm I'm really

really happy that you're still here. I'm

really happy that you're doing this.

Good luck with the the fight I'm going

to be watching. I'm going to be watching

and enjoying. Uh

>> thank you.

>> What else you got going on? Where should

people go to keep up to date with all of

the things?

>> Oh, man. Uh you know, I don't post on

social media that much anymore. um once

Instagram and Twitter and this is my

real name. Uh it's not Twitter anymore.

It's called X. Sorry. Um I I but I

actually I have a movie coming out this

fall also. Um about this. It's going to

be exciting. Um I don't know exactly

when it's coming out yet. Uh so my

wife's one of their family friends in

high school uh was a movie producer and

he was watching my stuff last summer and

he said that looks amazing. Um you would

you guys be open to it? my my wife had

filmed so much stuff while I was in the

hospital and uh he shopped it around and

the the Henry's I don't know if you know

them um at Novo Studios picked it up and

so we've done a whole bunch of filming

on it and I I think it's be great and I

hope it's really inspiring to for people

to lead a life where just like I said

they're they're fearless they live the

life that they want to live not the one

that they're afraid what other people

are going to think of them so they don't

do things they don't take chances um and

to live their life as fully as possible

so That's kind of what I'm hoping to

inspire people with.

>> Unreal, man. Unreal, dude. Let's keep in

touch. I'm excited to see what you do

next and uh let's uh let's talk when the

the documentary comes out.

>> Awesome. I love it. Thanks so much, man.

>> Appreciate you, dude. Catch you later

on. Congratulations. You made it to the

end of a full podcast episode. You are

not so Tik Tok brain that you've

completely dissolved into nothingness.

Why not watch another one right here?

Go on, press it.