No one says at a funeral, you know, this

guy didn't participate in the SpaceX IPO

cuz he had real integrity.

As we tape on Thursday, SpaceX is less

than 24 hours out from its stock market

debut, and we've got a special guest

here to help us break it down. Let's

bring in Stephanie Rule, anchor of the

new MS Now show, Money, Power, Politics

at 9:00 a.m. Welcome, Stephanie.

>> Thank you so much for having me.

>> Good. Well, well, first, um, we're going

to talk about the SpaceX IPO. The

company has set its price at $135 a

share, valuing the company at 1.77

trillion. SpaceX IPO will likely make

Elon Musk the first trillionaire in the

world ever, and make over 4,000 current

and former SpaceX employees,

millionaires. Uh, but if all of the

IPOing isn't enough to keep Elon Musk

busy, has taken X to involve himself in

ant very terrible anti-immigration riots

in Northern Ireland, saying only by

protesting repeatedly. and loudly would

there be any change. He's supporting a

lot of really hor heinous people there.

In response to criticism about his

support, Mus posted, "Murderous migrants

beheading innocent people in their

hometown is what's making people angry,

not social media." So, he's he's making

like terrible trouble ac and and the the

the British government is is has

responded quite a bit to his

involvement. Uh he's been meddling over

there for quite a while now. So, first

let's talk about the IPO. Scott has has

had really great analysis of it and a

lot of people like Asswath at NYU and

others are like this is this price is

ridiculous and at the same time it'll

probably jump up and then jump down

essentially. So let give us your

headline. People who are in who are

buying who are investing people who are

participating in the IPO they're not

buying SpaceX you're betting on Elon

Musk. You are buying Elon Musk. The

amount of control he has over this

company is unprecedented. And I'm not

saying people should or they shouldn't,

but that's who they're betting on. And

it's extraordinary to me because even

think about what you just mentioned with

where he's taken to X and with regard to

the protest in Ireland. We even haven't

heard one word from the underwriters of

like are we okay with this? Do you

remember it was five or six years ago

when it's sort of like at the height of

me too when Goldman had the big

proclamation of like we're only going to

be doing deals with you know with

companies that are have a commitment to

diversity and you know that's and I'm

like

>> where like do we not have one shred of a

moral compass here and the answer is

that we don't no one is mentioning this

and and when you think about how wealthy

he's about to become

>> and I'm not insulting it or

complimenting it I'm just saying I just

want people to realize realize this is a

person who directly impacts what's

happening in a war by pulling Starlink.

This is a person who wants to control

information so he buys a social media

platform. This is a person who realized

through Donald Trump he can invest in

candidates and by investing in

candidates get whatever he wants. Like

the reason I think we're now going we

are seeing an unprecedented amount of

money uh going into these elections is

because Elon Musk and Donald Trump prove

that it works, right? You're not just

getting a little bit of influence.

SpaceX's revenue. It says it right in

the perspectus comes from government

contracts. And so you we could all say

this is hanky. This isn't how capitalism

works. This isn't how democracy should

work or free markets. But for the

investment community is saying in my

opinion, if you can't beat them, join

them. I'm here for the I'm here for the

money. Here for the dough, Scott,

>> I like Stephanie's take that it's the

boring stuff that moves the needle.

>> Sorry, what' you say? I couldn't hear

you.

>> I like stuff. I like my good friend

Stephanie's steak. And by the way, slip

into my DMs if you ever decide that uh

you know, you've had it. You just you've

just had it. You know how to reach me.

>> You know how to reach me. Um gross.

>> Anyway, sorry. Um gross. Exactly. Where

are we?

Yes. DM slide into my DMs.

>> Uh look, by the way, she'd slide into my

DMs faster than she'd slide. That is

correct. That is 100% correct. If there

was a choice,

>> I think that's true of most of our

guests.

>> Yes. Anyway, move along and take her

seriously, her thoughts, her deep

thoughts on the situation with Musk. The

thing that's not getting enough

reporting is that uh essentially

M's ability to lean on Trump who then

called Paul Atkins and said make the

wave all previous rules and include this

company in the NASDAQ um 100 is going to

create 30 to$50 billion in additional

demand for a company with a float of 100

billion. So to use an analogy, imagine

on any given week there's a 100,000

people looking for homes in San

Francisco and that creates a certain

price discovery and certain pricing for

housing. Imagine if all of a sudden same

number of houses for sale, there's

150,000 buyers. So when you look at the

incremental demand of 30 to$50 billion

is what I've calculated from things like

QQQ and MSCIN indices that are now

forced to buy a company that might be

four to 6% of the index. meaning that 4

to 6% of their capital under management

has to be used to buy SpaceX stock

despite the fact again in a violation of

pre-existing rules that has been waved

only has 5% of its float out you have

what is in my opinion the greatest

degree of manufactured scarcity ever in

an IPO and this is about to be the

greatest transfer of wealth from retail

investors since crypto

>> 100% and and Cara just add into that

what you originally said about who Elon

Musk is like go back to Ireland like

we're not just making the like we're not

just making a person a company this

extraordinarily powerful it's this

person

>> who he is what he's done what he stands

for that's sort of the thing that I want

to sort of underline and highlight

>> he's skated skated around doge he's

skated around and this will give him an

ability to skate around everything right

unless it goes up and down right because

he's not always been he wasn't

successful in Wisconsin for example his

brand has gone to hell. You know,

nobody's buying Teslas. There are there

are implications, but this gives him

another life. Sort of a Lex Luthther

just got another the cat got another

life essentially.

>> Yes, there's implications, but when you

think about the stronghold that they

have over the government, think about

the amount of government contracts. When

you say even if things go down, like

once you are embedded in the government

with these government contracts, it's

like a tick biting you, right? Like you

don't just get a tick bite and pull it

out. The tick bites all the tentacles

pop out and it doesn't come back out. So

when people even say, "Listen, when we

have a different administration and they

see things differently, a lot of these

things are are going to pull back out."

Once you're this entangled in the

government, it doesn't work that way.

He's in. Well, what if the Democrats get

in? Does he is he in there? There they

certainly, you know, Elizabeth Warren is

of course is always speaking up about I

know. I get it. I know. But she's

speaking up at least. She's like, "Look,

this is not a good thing to She's going

to He's going to hurt retirees." That's

one of her things. She has a number of

them. You have Bernie Sanders wanting a

chunk of companies like his and other

like an open AI or whatever. How many

years have we talked about closing the

carried interest loophole? How many

years have we talked about banning or

limiting or adjusting congressional

stock trading? For a zillion years. How

many years have we talked about social

media regulation uh and when Democrats

had control? Sure. But I just think once

you're embedded in the government, look

at look at the case of Michael Dell.

Okay, Michael Dell, glad he did donate$6

billion dollars to the Trump baby

accounts. Super duper. Trump then says

everybody should go out there and buy

Adele. The stock goes on. Trump buys the

stock. And then Michael Dell gets a $9.5

billion government contract. I'll bet my

bottom dollar that come December if if

if Democrats take control, I don't think

that government contract's getting

cancelled. Do you?

>> No. No. No. But is there any price to

pay for this kind of stuff? And and I

want to get back to the stock itself.

>> Well, there should be a price to pay

because Democrats should be focused on

two things as it relates to the

midterms. Affordability and

accountability. If those are the two

things that they can nail a message and

a plan for, then they actually have a

chance to take control here.

>> So, so what what what is going to happen

with this IPO? How does it go? You've

been you've worked in this sector. Talk

Scott's talked. He thinks it's going to

be a pop, then down, and then a trough.

you've seen all these charts, then a

trough for a while and then it'll start

to go up so that people say buy at the

trough. Listen, there's so much

excitement. There's so much enthusiasm.

I mean, I just saw something the other

day with Jamie Diamond talking this up

and and they're not even the lead

underwriter on this. Like, there's just

so and and listen, there's just so many

people who are like Elon Musk, the guy

who controls the world, I don't know,

let's bet on him. Like like people just

want in. And especially as you can take

remember when at the height of of COVID

when Trump the control Elon Musk had the

time like how he basically created meme

stocks right Elon Musk we're taking it

to the moon and people were all in and I

think nerds like us are reading all

22,000 words of a perspectus but there's

scores of people out there who are just

like I just want in even if it's for a

minute. Now, Scott, can you note you had

noticed a vibe shift though, right? It

feels and then another friend of mine

said they got a call from their broker

to get into it now, which is a they

thought was a bad sign is like a it

wasn't an email and they were way down

on the list. Um, Scott was talking.

Scott, explain your feeling that the

vibe is off, but maybe

>> I think there's just been a tangible

shift in vibe against AI. AI has gone

from 75% approval to 25% and I do think

that there's some wobbliness in the

markets about maybe this the economics

that the technology will survive but it

the valuations may not. Having said that

SpaceX is I mean Stephanie's right

there's just a lot of people this is a

cult not a company that will invest in

anything that Musk puts forward. And to

be fair, even companies that made no

sense from a bottoms of valuation

standpoint, he still figured out a way

to show return to those investors who

were willing to hold on to a mediocre

automobile company that was trading like

a software stock. So, a lot of people,

you know, the cult, a lot of people

think that the decline in Bitcoin price

is because people that same kind of

person is selling their Bitcoin to be in

uh be in this company. But basically,

what you have, just to remind everybody,

>> you have a great company with great

malts. That's a rocket company. The

company that makes all the money is

basically Comcast and space. It's

Starlink. And then you have this

ridiculous money furnace attached to it

called, you know, XAI and it's going out

at 100 times revenues. But right now,

just back to the prediction car, I'm now

convinced it's not only going to pop out

of the gates, it'll close first day up

because I think some of the brightest

minds in the history of finance with

government control and the SEC on board

have created a way to just pull off so

much manufactured scarcity. You're not

allowed to go public unless you issue at

least 10% of the firm shares. They got a

waiver to say, "Oh, only 5%." So, so

just look at it this way. Demand.

Demand is the the velocity of the water

coming out of the hose. Supply. If you

can constrict supply, you constrict the

circumference of the nozzle. They are

constricting the nozzle such that the

the the velocity of the price here is

going to be extreme to the upside.

>> So they're creating they're creating

false market. Professional investors

know this. So, while Scott can be

telling all of this as a warning or a

problem and we should be concerned about

it, even if professional investors

fundamentally agree with Scott, and I'm

sure they do, they're also saying,

"Yeah, but guess what? It means the

stock is going to go up, right?

Buying a stock doesn't mean you're

buying a house and you're locked into it

for the next four years." And remember

when Trump won and Doge was created, all

three of us and scores of other people

called Elon Musk a shadow president. And

while he might not be sleeping on Steven

Miller's couch anymore and going into

government agencies with a chainsaw, he

still has an enormous maybe even more

influence over the government. We just

don't see him walking into the Oval

Office with his son on his shoulders.

And people know that. And when he's got

that much influence over the government,

or I'm not going to I'm not going to go

as far as to say Trump in his pocket,

but Trump at least, you know, on his

shoulder, that for many people, while it

might not be the right thing uh morally,

is going to be the right thing

financially. And that's what the markets

are about.

>> Okay, let me we have one question for

you. You have to go in a few minutes,

but let's listen to one more SpaceX

question we got from a listener, Holly.

>> What do you think about collective

divestment of funds that automatically

include SpaceX stock? Would that

sufficiently communicate that a lot of

people are not okay with the changes

that allowed this to happen?

>> First you Stephanie and then you Scott.

>> Yes, it would make a diff listen any

sort of um economic boycott and we've

all talked about that for the only place

you hit him where it hurts is an

economic boycott. Like you can have the

worst stories, you can have the worst

headlines, you can drag all these guys

to DC and have a hearing where Katie

Porter pulls out a whiteboard and says

you're naughty naughty naughty. They

don't care. They got on their plane and

they go home. But if there when and if

there are significant uh economic

boycots, then they have no choice but to

respond. I just don't know if we're ever

going to see something like that. Right?

When we talk so much about, you know,

Bezos and Amazon and as people are

saying like, I hate it or I hate those

social media companies, they're saying

it while they're scrolling through

Instagram and then ordering Amazon

packages. Scott, very briefly,

>> people will opt for their economic

security and if they think they can get

10 or 20% in a two or one or two hour

trade, they know this is overvalued.

They know that the game is being rigged

here and they will take the allocation

to get their 10 or 20%. No one says at a

funeral, you know, this guy didn't

participate in the SpaceX IPO because he

had real integrity,

>> right? That's true. That's a Well,

they'll say that at mine. Um 7, you have

a few minutes. Just a few more stories

very quick economic stories. Um, OpenA

has filed for an IPO. The company has

not yet decided on timing, saying in a

statement, "It may be a while because

there are things we want to do that are

likely easier for a private company." I

don't know what that is. Like what

orgies? I don't know. Open has last in

their defense. There's a lot you have to

do, explain, account for when you go

public. It's not easy.

>> Um, open was last valued at $852

billion. The filing comes shortly after

rival Anthropics. Uh, which of the three

are you betting on? And how worried are

you about the concentration of so much

market value in just a few companies?

Does the does it make the entire Scott

has been talking about how the entire

market is fragile? The entire market is

fragile and I think the name of the game

for all of them honestly is to be you

don't want to be the last one to IPO,

right? There is this huge appetite for

AI. Everybody's so excited, but there's

so much and there's potentially so much

overdevelopment. I think you just don't

want to of all of them. You just don't

want to be the last one you when you've

exhausted the market

>> when it's already exhausted. Okay,

Scott, anything really briefly?

>> No one is rooting for this IPO more than

uh Elon Musk other than Sam Alman. This

sets the tone for the next couple IPOs.

If this comes out really strong, these

guys are going to be able to come out

and say, "Look at our numbers versus

SpaceX and you were willing to buy in it

100 times."

Open AI and Anthropic are going to look

like value stocks compared to SpaceX if

SpaceX holds up.

>> Yeah. Yeah. If it holds up, if there's

>> in the case of Open AI and Anthropic,

especially as it relates to a retail

investor, those are companies that

people actually could say they know and

they see more than they do SpaceX.

That's a good point. All right, one last

thing. Inflation was up 4.2% annually in

May, the highest in three years. Much of

the surge came from the increase in oil

prices obviously which have ridden 35%

in the months since US and Israel

attacked Iran. But fear not, President

Trump is feeling optimistic about the

situation. Let's listen to a clip.

>> Are you concerned, Mr. President, about

the latest inflation number which came

out this morning? Could that be a

>> No, I love it. The numbers were great.

>> You know what I really love? I love the

inflation.

>> Okay. How how much does he love

inflation? Both of you. First uh first

you Stephanie, how much would it rise

before he started to not love it so

much?

>> Well, two things. Like as somebody who

spent his life deeply in debt, I guess

he could say yes, it inflation works for

me. If you put it in full context or

when he tried to do a cleanup later,

he's basically saying inflation's not

bad. Think about where it could have

been, right? People thought oil was

going to be $200 a barrel. But the fact

of the matter is, and he said just this

week, like, listen, uh, gas prices were

really high when Biden was in office,

which was the case when Russia first

invaded Ukraine. But guess what? Those

high prices and inflation, I would say,

were the fundamental reasons why Joe

Biden and subsequently Kla Harris didn't

win the election. Joe Donald Trump

promised to lower prices day one. He

obviously hasn't done that. I think when

he talks about affordability being

nonsense or an oldfashioned term, I

think he's telling the truth because he

is in a gilded cage surrounded by people

who have made who are already super

wealthy and they've made more money in

the last two years than is even

conceivable, but where it's politically

devastating and not necessarily for him

because he doesn't need to be president

again, but for every Republican running.

That soundbite of the president and

that's what they'll use. Inflation's

great. That hurts. You and I both have

mothers that voted for Donald Trump and

I assure you she my mother does not

think inflation is great and she could

tell you the price of London broille and

the price of gas today

Republicans I say London broil cuz like

that's that's an old London would you

like some London broille Scott really

briefly?

>> Well people don't 4.2% 2% doesn't sound

like a lot, but what you need to what

you need to do is quick math for people

uh in terms of compounding. And that is

at 4.2%. If that holds, that means the

tuition to go to NYU at $62,000. If you

have a baby today, when the baby's when

the kid is ready for college, tuition is

now $125,000.

Or bring it back just 5 years. It's

easier for people to wrap their heads

around. That means a car that costs

$50,000

is going to cost um 6 uh $61,000.

It's not 4.2, it's 4.2 compounding. And

the other thing about this inflation

print that's so bad is for the first

time in several years, uh inflation is

now greater than wages, meaning the

quality of everyone's life, their

prosperity is diminished.

>> But not for Trump and the people who are

around Trump and he's happy as a clam in

that bubble. I think if it wasn't for

the war in Iran, he would be on cloud9.

>> And also, it it just bears mentioning

that

for the three of us, it really doesn't

matter cuz we own stocks, we own assets,

we're we're hedged against inflation cuz

our house goes up 4.2%, our stocks go up

4.2% because Apple will raise its

prices. Who this hurts are earners that

don't have assets yet. So, and and let's

be clear, revolutions don't start

because people are unemployed. They

start because people are working two

jobs and are still hungry. And this is

yet again is another it's another

there's still Argentina's had 120% of

inflation. There's a class of people

there that have always stayed wealthy

because they own land. So the land

owners and the stock owners

traditionally older people in the United

States are just fine. Inflation is yet

again another transfer of wealth from

nonasset owners who are earners to the

asset owners. Cara, when let me just say

when people say when wealthy people say

they're panicstricken over Zoramani

uh coming for capitalism and and and the

and and leading the eat the rich

sentiment. He's not leading the eat the

rich sentiment. Donald Trump saying I

like inflation is fueling the eat the

rich sentiment and the mayor and the

tech bros saying all manner of nonsense

every day of the week and twice on

Sunday is the same thing. It's anger.

It's anger inducing and that's where you

feel it I think. Um, okay. Prediction on

which of the IPOs coming or is the stock

market about to take a deep fall as many

people think. So, which of the of all

the IPOs, which one would you buy into?

And are you worried about the stock

market?

>> Listen, I've been saying I've been

worried about the stock market for quite

some time. And if you talk to, and I'll

be quick, and if you talk to CEOs that

are not the Magnificent Seven or that

run companies that are impacted by

tariffs or mass deportation, those

companies are not booming. They are

struggling. They can't walk into the

White House and offer Donald Trump a

plane or god only knows what. It's not

so easy for them. So, I think under the

hood, things aren't great for lots of

companies. But honestly, I can't I'm not

betting against the stock market because

the only way it's been going is up. and

a current appetite for AI. To me, it

might be fragile, but it's big.

>> It's big. All right. Which one would you

buy? It's on a plate in front of you. If

I was hanging my morals out the window,

I'd buy all of them. Oh. Okay. All

right, then. There you go. All right.

Thank you, Stephanie. And everyone, be

sure to watch her new MS Now show. I'm

going to yell it. money, power,

politics. Weekdays at 900 a.m. She's

going to be getting up early to give us

the the lowdown on everything, the the

the hot takes. Tell us what what this

move is about very briefly. What is the

situation with MPP? Uh I think we need a

great big uh uh morning show. I think

that especially obviously we cover

politics, we cover current events, but

the economy is the number one thing that

people vote on. Tomorrow, as we talk

about the SpaceX IPO, we're going to

have a newly minted trillionaire. We are

16 years out from Citizens United and

have more money going into politics than

ever. And not just politics cuz, hey, I

like this candidate. Politics because

it's directly impacting policy. Not to

mention the gargantuan grift and

corruption under our nose right now. I

couldn't cover all that in one hour. I

thought it was important that we covered

it in and we covered it in the morning

uh for two hours and in a way that we're

sort of setting the tone for what we

cover here because it's not just about

following Trump and the crazy thing he's

saying today. We're fundamentally

changing potentially the way our economy

works, the way capitalism works, and I

think we need to cover it in a

comprehensive way. And you guys know

this as well as I do, the way that

business news has traditionally been

covered. It's business zoos covered for

an audience that that invests in the

markets. And when CEOs go on TV, they're

not necessarily giving their worldview.

They're talking about specific

information about their companies that's

going to impact their report, their

stock performance that day. We need to

have much bigger and broader

conversations than that. 9 in the

morning, too. So, you're on Morning Joe.

So, Morning Joe sort of yammers on for a

long time about politics mostly. So,

you're gonna come in with a real hard

hard-nosed show in the morning

essentially.

>> Yes. But also, I mean, yes, at 9 in the

morning, but I also think, and you guys

know this, I actually just talked about

this in an interview the other day. I

think that when people watch TV, yes,

people watch live TV, but it's more you

watch the show that you want to watch.

And if you make an important show that

matters, it doesn't actually if you if

Landman is your favorite show or Friends

and Neighbors and I said to you, "What

time is it on what day?" You might say

like, "Oh, I think it comes out on

Fridays." I think the for me the most

important thing isn't who's necessarily

watching me at nine. It's how do we make

the best show that counts because that's

what people are going to want to see.

Think about the way pivot. Think about

the way people consume pivot.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Usually when they're drunk,

but um no no morning running. I

>> not just Scott. Not just Scott.

>> By the way, Stephanie, you I don't know

if you This is very much related to what

you're talking about. We were talking

about Taylor Swift and I don't know if

you guys heard, but all of her exes are

getting together and collaborating on an

album and it's going to be called Maybe

She's the Problem.

>> Oh my god. She saved the Knicks. Don't

don't don't listen to him. Stephanie

Stephanie appreciates that.

>> Don't answer the question.

>> Stephanie appreciates that. By the way,

just let's divert from the news. When

Stephanie calls me, I'm both excited and

scared cuz typically typically her calls

start with Typically her this is not

exactly her call start with I think

you're really [ __ ] up.

>> Oh nice.

>> Or I'm worried about you.

>> I get a version of that too.

Interesting.

>> Whenever she calls I'm like uhoh. This

is either going to be very good or very

bad.

>> You know what that's called? A person

who doesn't waste time who's an actual

friend. I called a friend. I called

Scott on a personal issue the other day

and when I started the call I said let

me get to somewhere private and he

immediately said are you getting a

divorce?

>> Oh my god. All right.

>> No, I didn't. That's why I said wait

till the kids are gone.

>> Yes. Okay.

>> Wait till the kids are out of the house.

It was a divorce. It was I was calling

Scott for some parenting. I was calling

for actual parenting advice from Scott

which he is fantastic at when it comes

to boys. and his immediate response

before I just said, "Let me get to

somewhere where no one else in the

family could hear me. Wait till the kids

are out of the house," was his response.

"Thanks, Scott."

>> Oh, okay. All right.

>> And then he proceeded to give me

incredible advice. So, may I just say, I

have two fine sons. You might

>> Yeah, we've heard over and over.

>> They're amazing. Any one of them is

quite good at cooking if you didn't.

>> He is. He's working for a restaurant

now, Stephanie. In San Francisco, he's

very excited. He has a little outfit,

too.

>> The other is at Michigan. He's

wonderful. Oh, he's got a fantastic

girlfriend. No.

>> He's got No, he's got a fantastic He

loves his job. He's he's manufacturing

things in an advanced way.

>> Thank you all so so much. I love you

both. All right, guys. Good to see.

Anyway, uh let's go on a quick break.

When we come back, uh the Trump

administration's freakout over Jeffrey

Epstein.

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>> Scott, we're back. The Trump

administration cannot escape the examine

files, nor should they be able to, no

matter how hard they try. And we're now

getting more details about the internal

panic about Epstein over the last year.

Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan shared

an excerpt from their upcoming book

regime change with the New York Times.

Here are some high both are New York

Times writers, by the way. Here are some

highlights. The situation room became an

Epstein war room where strategy meetings

took place. JD Vance suggested having

Tucker Carlson interviewed Gelain

Maxwell in prison. There was talk of

then deputy uh AG Todd Blanch going on

Joe Rogan, but Vance wanted to go on

instead of Blanch. Don Dan Bonino warned

um there would be uh President this

would be President Trump's Iran Contra.

There was talk of nipples and President

Trump's disrespect for nipples in the

room. woman. As funny as that sounds, it

was pretty grotesque of his uh his his

abuse of a young woman. Um but this is

what they're this is what the this

entire leadership is talking about is

whether and and whether he'll be able to

handle the nipple stuff getting out. Um

it's not just the White House and has

nothing to do with nipples here. Bill

Gates was on Capitol Hill this week

testifying behind closed doors about his

connection to Epstein. Gates said Epste

tried to use information about his

extrammarital affairs as leverage after

the two had cut ties. Well, obviously he

did. that he's an evil villain. Uh he

also acknowledged that meeting with

Epstein was a grave error in judgment

which he said before and put his

philanthropy work at risk and it

certainly did including his own

reputation. Um talk a little bit about

did anything surprise you about how the

White House dealt with the Epstein

stuff? They sound like [ __ ] amateurs.

Every time I was reading it I was like

what a bunch of amateurs. Big fights

between Bonino and Patel and Bondi and

Susie Wilds just sitting over it like a

demented mother who doesn't know how to

control idiot children. Um, will this be

a major issue in in terms and I will say

as you know I was very much early on

saying this is a real problem. Reuters

is out with a new poll. 75% of people

think the government is hiding

information on Epstein's clients and a

lot of it is falling as much as Trump

has tried to push it off onto other

people on the president himself.

Thoughts?

>> So I think we agree that it should be an

issue. I don't think it will be. Um,

there's recent data showing there's

these March focus groups ranked Epstein

sixth amongst voter concerns ahead. you

know, so it's well in the back of the

bus here. Um I think it is. Again, I I

unfortunately I just don't think it's

that big of an issue. I think I think

the American public is so numb to this

kind of stuff, especially in the Trump

administration. What I I what I actually

found more interesting was the whole

Gates testimony. So when you call

someone to come testify in front of a

special committee or whoever testified,

>> you have some say in it. They made they

got it behind closed doors and they got

it during the NBA finals, during Iran,

during the SpaceX IPO. This is the bit,

this is what you do. You know this

business better than I do. When you have

shitty news,

>> you bury it in a big news day, right?

>> Behind closed doors

>> during a very, very heavy business news

week. This story is gonna come and go.

Well, I still think it's a I I'm going

to disagree with you because I think I

was actually completely accurate at the

beginning of the Epstein thing that it's

a big deal. I think among the base of

people, it remains an illuminating and

and and a thing that gets them going. I

don't think it goes away. And what was

interesting was Dan Bonino during this

whole thing kept saying that to the

Trump people that this is not a they

kept minimizing it, saying it's not a

big deal. It's not a big deal. It was a

big [ __ ] deal. And this is something

I knew from reading all these QAnon

boards. This is this is at the center. I

think it's still at the center. I think

it creates an atmosphere among people

like Rogan and others of these [ __ ]

liars. And I think

>> I think Iran's a bigger deal for them

than

>> it is now. But I'm saying it does this

is like one more, you know, another

brick in the wall like that kind of

thing. And so I think Epste remains a

bearing wall of this presidency and he

cannot get away from it. And when I I

get the nipple thing and everything else

and as much as I think he's kind of like

an oaf, Danagino had it right and so by

the way did Vance. Although Wilds was

sort of accusing of being a conspiracy

theorist, but I think Vance had his

finger on the pulse of bringing it out

like as much as possible even if it hurt

the president um slightly because the

the transparency was more important than

what's in it. Um, unless of course

there's very clear and inconvertible

evidence that he slept with a with a

underage girl, which it's still not

proven. Um, it's there's been a lot of

allegations of it certainly. Um, so I

think it's still there. I think it sits

there like mold. It just sits there and

it sits in the minds of a lot of people

like Massie and even though he's zeroed

them, he has not zeroed them. I don't

think by any means and I think Vance

knows it and Bino certainly knows it

with Gates. Look, this you're right. He

This was a good time to do his and he

kept going, "I'm here voluntarily." Did

you see that? Which was kind of

interesting. Um I think this has hurt

his reputation.

>> Oh, yeah. No doubt.

>> For for a long long long time. I think

he is this is he is going to suffer.

This is going to he has done some

amazing works.

>> I think his wife is looking f his

ex-wife is looking fantastic with all

this different financial things she's

putting out and handling her image quite

well throughout this whole thing. Um,

but I think he is permanently harnessed

and I'm not sure how any conversation he

has going forward does not include this

topic. So I think he has done enormous

damage to himself by affiliating himself

with Epstein and um it was a grave error

in judgments and it did put his

philanthropy at work. So that's I think

it's there. I think it's still there.

Anyway, all right. Uh let's go on a

quick break. When we come back,

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Scott, we're back with more news in this

endless [ __ ] merger. Uh, Paramount is

accusing Netflix of waging a scorched

earth campaign to kill its 110 billion

dollar deal with Warner Brothers. In a

letter to the DOJ, Paramount's chief

legal officer, Megan Delrahee, says

Netflix is trying to quote, "Poison

regulators and other stakeholders

against the merger." Oh, come on, M. I

know Megan. Of course they are. Netflix

is calling their claims absurd. Um, it's

not the only thing Paramount is doing to

get the deal across the finish line.

company reportedly submitted a list of

concessions to head off antitrust

lawsuit by California and several other

states. That'll include New York and

possibly Massachusetts. I'm hearing um

uh I recently actually I've gotten notes

from people in Hollywood saying this

thing is a little shakier than it looks.

I'm I'm not so sure about that, but I'm

surprised I'm getting them. The EU is

also currently reviewing the merger in

light of backing of those um in light of

the backing of those middle uh Middle

Eastern wealth funds. um thoughts

anywhere

>> of of all the media CEOs, the one I know

best, which isn't very well, is Ted

Surround us. And any campaign to try and

undermine

to undermine this would have to have

Ted's blessing. And this just isn't

Ted's style. He He's not

>> He's just going to wait and buy it when

they [ __ ] it up. They're 80 billion.

>> And I don't see I don't see any exterior

lobbying of people who are clearly in,

you know, Netflix's back pocket. that I

don't see a bunch of Democratic senators

getting all jonesed up about this. So, I

just it doesn't it doesn't ring true for

me. What does ring true is that some

blue state AGs are starting to look into

it and may file I've met with them. They

absolutely are

>> and may file may file suit, but I don't

see it just when I read that it doesn't

what what I do what I know about Ted.

He's Ted is kind of, you know, when Ted

retires, he's he'll probably be like a

diplomat cuz he's just not the kind of

person to [ __ ] post or go on the

offensive.

>> I think they're trash talking it behind

the scenes like because of the obvious

situation. This has enormous amounts of

debt on it.

>> But but I I interviewed him on stage in

LA and I gave him, you know, an opening.

I said, "Isn't the creative community

going to scream out in horror when this

when this acquisition closes and because

of the AI and, you know, get trying to

find efficiencies for overpaying. I gave

him I set him up to and he just he

immediately pivoted to something else

and said he hopes they do well. I I just

don't

>> He's just not that he's not of that ilk.

>> No, I think they're shooting themselves

in their own feet and they want to blame

other people. They're they This has been

more accurate than clottish. Every step

of the way this this acquisition feels

clottish and and the debt is the debt.

That's what it is. And one of the things

I want people to focus on is there's a

huge amount of debt. They're going to

the ugliness is not now. Even though

there's a lot of ugly right now, it's

going to happen once the deal is is

struck because these people cannot make

keep the promises they've made. They're

not very good promise keepers. Some

might call them mendacious at times. Um

uh but they will not be able to keep up

their um what they are saying they're

going to do. And that's when the

ugliness will truly start when they have

to make these cuts which have to be

significant. no matter what they say,

unless Larry Wilson decides to just take

his money and bankroll the whole thing,

which I don't think he will, um, this is

going to be tough for for Hollywood and

they know it. Um, and I think they're

going to they're going to have real

troubles and and then that's when

Netflix comes in and sucks up all the

pretty parts would be my guess.

>> I do I actually think it probably closes

though because I talked to an economist

this weekend and he said it doesn't

really fit

>> the her monopoly in terms of streaming.

Um, if you factor in linear content from

their flagship channels CBS, HBO, and

HTV, the hypothetical combined platform

gets roughly 20% of total US hour

streamed, and Netflix is at 60. In terms

of total TV viewing time, combined

Warner Brothers Paramount um, streaming

and TV All-In would represent about

12.2% of total US viewing, TV watch

time, and that's less than YouTube

currently has at about 13%. In terms of

box office sales, Paramount and Warner

Brothers represent roughly 25% of the

domestic box office. So, and they're

just so well connected with Trump.

They'll end up selling off like

Spongebob Squarepants so some regulator

can feel like they've got a win or

something or divesting of some stupid

children's program, but I think this

goes through Kali has it at 75%. I think

it's actually higher than that. Yeah, I

think I just I've just noticed a lot of

Hollywood people and the smart ones, I'm

not talking about the dumb ones, um have

been like, "This feels bad. Something

feels bad." But I think it's largely all

the noise around CBS and the disaster

they're perpetrating there. But um but I

think it's more um I just think there

the pain is going to come once the deal

is done. That is where it's going to

happen and you're going to see like how

are they going to get out of this box?

And there none of them are Houdini in

that gang. So um that's that's the

problem. Um, we'll see. We'll see where

it's going, but definitely the state

attorney generals are involved. They're

going to try to they will get them to

sell something up there. I am still very

concerned about the backing of these

Middle Eastern wealth fence owning this

much of our media, but you know, no one

else seems to care. Um, but I find that

really and I and EU will will they'll

have to they'll have to do a lot of

favors for people going forward and

later TS Randes and YouTube will take it

all over. That's my feeling like it's

really these people are like not don't

count compared to those two and the

where you should watch is YouTube and

Netflix. That's pretty much how I feel

and Disney to a lesser extent. Anyway,

last thing, Canada is the latest country

to crack down on social media for teens.

The government proposed a bill this week

to ban kids under 16 from using social

media, though most companies can get

exemptions if they prove their platforms

adequately protect young users. It's not

just Canada, as we said. across the

pond. UK Prime Minister uh Starmer is

weighing a similar ban. It's I think

Australia has one. It's it's comp it's

it's across the world, but don't expect

this to happen in the US. Our embassy in

London posted about the potential UK ban

writing the United States favors

parental empowerment over government

mandates, whatever. Also worth noting uh

though, Australia's social media ban is

struggling. 70% of teens are still using

social media apps according to a recent

report because they can get around this

stuff. So I I think it's more teens

continued to smoke after we put stuff on

packs and made it harder by them. I

don't really think that should be the

goal there, but I think a society has to

say this stuff sucks and is dangerous.

So I don't mind just the saying of it.

So how do you how do you think about UK

and and Canada doing this?

>> I think it's great and I think it's

overdue. I don't I don't think there's

any reason why anyone under the age of

16 should be on a social media platform.

I think one of the greatest threats to

our society is that we're evolving a new

species of asocial, asexual males. And

that 40% of the S&P is now tied to

trying to convince these people to

sequester from their relationships and

be online. And part of the problem is

just as their brain is getting wired

through puberty, you're teaching them to

have constant visual stimulation and and

be staring at a I mean, there's even

there's even evidence now that their

posture is changing.

>> Oh, leaning over.

>> Yeah. Unless you have

>> back to Nanderl, right?

>> Unless you have collective action. And I

do think these bands I you know PE

schools aren't going to allow you to

have a phone. If you're if you're a

preschool or middle school, you're not

allowed to have a phone or I mean

anyways, I I think this is it took us 30

years to figure out tobacco or

regulated. It took us 20 years with

opiates. It looks like social went on

mobile in 2013. It looks like it's going

to take us exactly about 20 years. But I

I think this is a great thing. Europe is

leading on this. It's weird to describe

Europe as an innovator on regulation.

But, uh, as somebody who has grown up

with kids in the kill zone, exactly the

wrong age, at exactly the wrong time,

>> right time.

>> A lot of people will say to me, "I'm

really worried. I have a five and

8-year-old." I'm like, "No, no, no.

You're fine. We'll have this figured out

by the time they're 13 and 14." But if

you went through COVID as a teenager and

grew up with social media, I really

think you faced some significant

headwinds uh uh in terms of emotional

>> regulation. First of all, as I said,

it's it's a sign that society thinks

it's important, just like we did with

cigarettes or seat belts. Not everyone

wears seat belts. Not lots of teens

smokes. Guess what? Lots of teens drink

even though we have rules. It's the

society saying to its citizens, we think

this is bad. You can cheat and they

will. No question. I think that argument

is so false. Like, oh, teens will get it

anyway. I'm like, okay, they'll get

liquor anyway. They'll get everything.

So, I think that's number one. It says

something about your society that you

care enough and it isn't mandating. It's

just saying like as with cigarettes, as

with drinking, we shall our teens shall

not do this. And I think that's

perfectly fine. And you know, the people

that say it's not, they're they're not

paying attention to everything else. The

second thing is I do think social media

is on the decline among young people,

not among our people who are addicted,

fatally addicted to these things. Um,

but I do think I I watch a lot of young

people and I know a lot of them are on

there, but I think the age is a little

higher.

>> I put an asterisk on that. I think it's

declining among wealthy, informed young

people who have strong parental

influences and the money and the

resources to get engaged in other

things.

>> Fair point.

>> I think if you're if you're the child of

a single mother, home alone a lot,

>> I don't know. I you know I mean even

among young men do you know supposedly

men ages 20 to 30 are spending more time

in less time outdoors than prison

inmates.

>> They're on a [ __ ]

>> screen and just to just to go to school

>> gaming though I think I'm talking about

social media

>> some of gaming I agree but just the big

tax excuse has always been we can't find

it would be impossible for us to detect

underage underage users. Guess what?

When Australia passed an act, the

platforms deactivated nearly 5 million

teen accounts in just one month. They

were able to figure it out. And

meanwhile, that very same detection is

being withheld from Americans because

our federal government has no interest

in protecting children from the harms of

social media. The Kids Online Safety Act

passed the Senate 91 to3 and then died

when House GOP leadership refused a

floor vote. So the the bill's been

reintroduced and is stalled again. A

March House markup was pulled amid

partisan fights over preeemption and 40

bipartisan state attorney generals are

begging Congress to act, warning the

House version would gut state child

safety laws. So this is

>> I like you bringing the data, Scott.

>> Well, the last federal law protecting

kids online was Kappa and it was in

1998. So wait, let me You don't think

the world has changed in 28 years

regarding technology and the potential

harm for children? Come on. I

>> I would not ask you. I don't I think

Australia is not working. is not the

question. It is teens will find a way.

But I do think a society stepping out

and saying it. And let me just note, I

don't know if you saw this. Um before we

get to your prediction, the trailer just

came out for The Social Reckoning, which

is the follow-up to The Social Network.

Jeremy Strong is from Succession is

playing Mark Zuckerberg. He's got the

voice on down pat, although he looks too

old. I have to say he's oddly looking

old. But it's all about this. It's all

about and it's, you know, it's the story

of Francis Hogan really pretty much. and

and these Facebook files and how this

they had all they knew what they were

doing and they did it anyway and this

was the first to me this was the moment

that that Zuckerberg went villainous

right that he that he that you started

understanding the something that I had

written about in the times of 2018 this

came out in 2019 2021 period but this

was the moment and I think this movie

it'll be really interesting by Aaron

Sorcin um once again revisiting this

issue is that this guy is living large

on the backs of teens, on the backs of

kids, on the backs of everybody and I

don't think it's going to be great for

the image and I think it's to say it

again and again is has to happen

including these rule these laws these

movies and everything else and Jeremy

Strong literally sounds so much like

them it's disturbing.

>> Well, the the ability of big tech to

wash over Washington and separate them

from the best interest of our children

with money. You know what's got in the

way of the Kids Online Safety Act,

better known as KOSA? It forces

platforms to exercise open quote

reasonable care in designing features so

they prevent and mitigate specific harm

to minors. Things including content

promoting suicide, eating disorders,

sexual exploitation, and compulsive use

patterns. Big tech is fighting those

things.

>> Yeah. That's cuz they go, "Oh, it could

be used for this. It could be." They go

behind their first amendment nonsense

that they tend to try to push out there.

But

>> yeah,

>> you can't anticipate every I just want

the society to say no to this just like

kids with phones in schools. No, no, no.

And that's what is that's what a civil

society does to these companies, whether

they're cigarette companies, liquor

companies. By the way, liquor's on the

decline. This I think social media is

going to decline more than you think. I

think that's my that's my prediction.

Anyway, one more quick break. We'll get

back. We're going to get back for

Scott's prediction.

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Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.

>> Well, one is a a simple funny one and

the other one is more serious. But the

simple one is you're about to see

revenues at the hundred biggest podcasts

go up 20 to 30%.

>> Oh, yay. That's

>> additional just from

like everybody everybody make the

wagers. Pivot is about to get a great

deal of money and so is every other big

podcast to be the quote unquote the

exclusive. They've already come

knocking.

>> I don't care if it's Yahoo, Scout, or

Gemini. These guys are all gonna

We're about to Some of that cheap.

Remember all that cheap cheap money that

was being thrown around in 99?

>> That was mattresses. That was

mattresses.

>> I mean, you're about to see the podcast

universe have the tsunami of money just

to say, "Hey, Joe, we'll give you 10

million bucks if you decide that you

only use uh open AI."

>> Right. Uh, anyways, that's my stupid

simple one. But the more specific one is

that, I mean, look, the fix is in. And I

just think it's so [ __ ] obvious.

>> Musk called Trump after doing a lot of

analysis with his bankers and said, you

know, I spent $250 million to get you

elected. He probably said, "No, you can

get me elected." He said, "Well, can you

acknowledge that I helped?" He said,

"Yeah." He's like, "I'm considering

putting two and a half billion into the

midterms." How would you like that,

President Trump? Well, I'd like it a

lot. Well, if you can get Paul Atkins

over at the SEC to wave that stupid rule

that that doesn't allow retail investors

from participating in great companies

like SpaceX, I just have this hankering

to put in two, three, maybe5 billion

into the midterms.

>> Yankering. Hankering. Yes.

>> And again, what does that do? It sends

30 to50 billion dollar in incremental

dollars hunting for a hundred billion in

available uh shares of SpaceX. This is

all of a sudden there's 50% more people

looking for homes in San Francisco than

there was there was with any other

previous IPO. And let's just do the

math. Say that takes the price of SpaceX

up just let's be conservative 10%. At 2

trillion, that's 200 billion. He owns

40%. So he gets $80 billion.

Why wouldn't he promise the president 10

billion in the midterms? Citizens

United, he can do whatever the [ __ ] he

wants. So if he called the president and

said, "Hey, call Paul and tell them to

do away with this stupid rule such that

retail good Americans can't invest in

the best companies." And I got a

hankering to put 10 billion dollars to

work in the midterms. I mean, quite

frankly, wouldn't he be stupid not to do

that?

>> Yes, absolutely. That's how it works.

That's how

>> Anyways, my prediction is the fixes in.

What people aren't focused on is this

the wave the waving of the NASDAQ 100

rules that you got to wait a year and

let price settles is going to create

>> it's going to create the ultimate false

flag signal of pricing on the day of

this IPO.

>> That's what they're doing. Oh, they're

all talking it up and you're like, "Oh,

you people." And Stephanie's right.

Morality has nothing to do with it. I

could never be an investment banker. I

couldn't be a lawyer either. I wouldn't.

I'd be like, "You're guilty. You should

go to jail. I'm going to turn you in." I

just couldn't do it. I just couldn't do

it. Same invest. You suck. I'm not going

to take you public. I just couldn't do

it. I just couldn't do it. I don't know.

Well, whatever. Someone has to. Anyway,

uh uh that was a great prediction. I

think you're absolutely right. Um and

and about the podcast thing. Yay. Yay.

Although I have to say, how [ __ ] do

you think I am?

>> We'll cash those checks. But you

investment bankers are evil people.

>> You know what I mean? Um uh let me say,

how [ __ ] am I that he's going to be a

trillionaire? I'm kind of [ __ ] aren't

I?

>> Well,

I'm all on board now. I love this kind

of populist economist out of the UK,

Gary Stevenson. He he totally changed my

frame of mind and that is taxes are

kevlar against corruption because when

people aggregate too much money,

>> they become corrupt. You know, power

corrupts and absolute power absolutely

corrupts and our t taxes are what stands

between us and having one person who can

decide when to turn off and on

battlefield technology and the invasion

of Europe.

>> Yeah. Do you think you'll like hire an

army just for me? I don't know. more. I

just feel I feel like, oh no, he was

irritating before, but now I'm [ __ ]

Anyway, elsewhere in the Karen Scott

universe, this week on Professor, Scott

spoke with Anne Applebomb, one of my

favorites, too, and Fiona Hill. Wow,

what a pair, about how Ukraine is

rewriting the rules of warfare, the

hidden weaknesses of authoritarian

regimes, and the future of global power.

Let's listen to a clip. And I think

actually what Ukraine could show is that

the beneficiaries of all of this ought

to be society uh the private sector the

innovators and that we need to find some

kind of model after this a refresh uh

after uh all of the dust is settled here

while the dust is settling to basically

get ourselves back into gear again. So a

trillion plus uh defense budget that's

going to be top down is not the way to

go at all. You're absolutely right that

is not the model. A lesson from this is

that soft power is underrated and hard

power is overrated.

>> Correct.

>> And we've just gotten it all wrong.

>> Scott, I'm glad you did those two

ladies. There's they're badasses.

>> Yeah. It was our 400th episode and they

asked me who I'd want on the show and I

said either Ann Apple Bomb or Fiona Hill

and they said we'll get both. So, I was

really excited to have them on.

>> The women shall save us.

>> Yeah. Impressive women.

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