Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> That's wild. I went in [music] cuz I

came in from I am I think I was living

at the time and I went in and uh and uh

I'm sitting in the waiting room and it

was like on a Sunday because it was I

was like I'm only in town for and Stan

was like I'll come into the office. I'm

like thank you so much. I had to have

some a filling or whatever I

[clears throat] needed. It's a kind of

an emergency. So, I'm sitting in the

thing and uh and I'm not getting called

in, but the the the lad just No, no,

there's not even a receptionist. And

Stan comes out with his mask on. No, the

first thing I hear is PIG [ __ ] [ __ ]

[ __ ] [ __ ] PIG [laughter] [ __ ] AND

I'm like, what is happening in there?

It's in the other room. And Stan comes

in with his mask on. He goes, he goes,

sorry. He goes, I'll be with you soon.

He goes, I got Hunter in the chair. And

he goes [laughter] back and I hear

listen to to Hunter Thompson swear for

like 15 minutes. I'm like, "This is

amazing." And then Stan goes, "Okay,

come on back." And Hunter's kind of

getting out and he goes, "Oh, you're

sitting down with this guy. He's a

[ __ ] assassin." [laughter]

And then he goes and he's got this jug

of clear uh of clear fluid and he's

like, "You're going to need a sip of

this." And I'm like, "Oh my god, this is

[ __ ] Hunter S. Thompson's moonshot."

[laughter] I'm like, "This is ethyl

alcohol." Like this is [ __ ] amazing.

I'm talking to this dude for 30 seconds

and I'm getting a sip and like

[laughter] and it was like 10:00 in the

morning on a Sunday.

>> Yeah.

>> He was halfway through the drug [ __ ]

like where was this

>> in Beverly Hills? [laughter] Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Brentwood. Yeah. Brentwood was

stand office. Yeah.

>> Oh my god. That's amazing. It was it

really was amaz It was it was and I so I

had probably a total of seven minutes,

you know, with him and it was like I I I

it could I could not have been a better

seven minutes.

>> That's incredible. I went to the Woody

Creek Tavern just to go there cuz I know

he used to go there and like you could

like feel him in the building. You know,

there's all the pictures in the walls.

It's cool little place.

>> I mean those books [ __ ] Hell's Angels

and and you know, Fear and Loathing is

some of the best writing. I I just

[ __ ] like he really had his own

voice. Rum Diary was spectacular, you

know? It was like really descriptive and

punchy and [ __ ] interesting and

[ __ ] up. And he also just lived that

life. It was like

>> Fear and Loathing changed my life. Like

reading that book was like, "What the

fuck?" Like, "What is this guy doing?

[laughter]

Grown men out there balding grown men

with spectacles running around.

>> I think there's lizards in the [ __ ]

[laughter] lounge. Like, you guys are

loosening." And he's got a day trip bag

filled with acid. Like, what the [ __ ]

are you doing, man? That was [snorts]

and it's great [ __ ] It's like you're

[ __ ] you feel like you're on the

adventure with him, you know?

>> Yeah. No, it's a it's it's interesting

to watch the the evolution of his

writing too, you know? Like I read

Hell's Angels and it's like very

different, you know, but it's

>> and that's early when he's kind of

restrained and it was quite like for

that I think it was edgy sort of for the

time, you know, like oh you're going to

get beat and chain whipped and stomped

by the angels and that was really edgy

and by the time they got to what was

fairly 72 or something like that,

>> you know, he was just

>> Yeah, he was there. He found his voice.

>> He did find [laughter] he was supposed

to be covering a race for like Sports

Illustrated. [laughter]

>> That's where Fear and Loathing came

from. But I [ __ ] lost my mind.

[laughter]

>> Great. It's great, Hunter.

>> We'll take it.

>> Well, hey, it's very nice to meet you

guys. I've met you before, but very nice

to meet, man. Thank you very much. I

love the [ __ ] movie. The rip is

great. It's really good. It's so

original and it's so it's so different

and it's, you know, it's like I love

those kind of movies, but it's not like

any one that I've ever seen before.

Really solid movie.

>> Thanks, dude. Thank you.

>> It was awesome. so [clears throat] much

better than you hating it and having

[laughter]

the interviews where they're like, "So,

I saw the movie anyway. How you guys

been?"

>> We've had we've had a lot of those the

junk the press junkets where they come

in and the first thing that you know the

movie sucks if if they don't ask you

anything about the movie, they come in,

they go, "So, how you been?"

>> You know, and you're like, "Oh [ __ ]

this is going to be bad."

>> Is it weird like the the transformation

of the film industry seems to like a lot

of it is moving towards these big

streaming movies now?

>> Absolutely. I mean, look, it's because

where most people have gone to watch

them, right? Like,

>> used to be the only place you go see

movies in the 40s. Like, every American

went to the movie every week basically.

But it was because it was that or watch

the cows walk by. You know, that was the

only and then TV comes around. It's

little and you see these little cals.

But you know what happened was now this

is why this totally changed the whole

thing because you got 300 million people

330 whatever it is watching you know

Netflix and it's a lot harder to get

people to go into the movies. There's

also YouTube. There's also Tik Tok.

There's also my kids like it's hard to

get them excited about a movie. Yeah.

That's what we had. I mean

>> Yeah. That was our I mean our teen years

were just every weekend we're at the

movies.

>> Yeah.

>> Um there's just no question about it.

that you were going to go and usually

not get into one cuz there were too many

people and then you just see what else

is playing and go to that.

>> Well, it seems like it was kind of

slipping away because so many people

were watching streaming already and then

CO came around and everyone was locked

down and no one was going to the movie

theater and then it just set it.

>> I had this like drama that was coming

out like right when CO hit. I really

like the movie performance movie. It's

an alcoholic guy whose kid guys kid dies

and becomes an alcoholic. It's dark

movie but I I loved it and I could tell

like we're [ __ ] No one's going to go

to see the theater, see this movie. And

it wasn't even that streaming streaming

really blew up, you know, of course

during co. So, you know, look, they

rushed it onto streaming. People

actually saw it. I was like, look, all

things being equal, I'd like people to

see it, you know, and it's not like my

dad had an 11in black and white TV and

that's what was TV viewing now. It's

like $200, you got a [ __ ] 65 in flat

screen like and good sound. So, of

course, people are willing to and then

streamers also started making great

shows. You have adolescence. I don't

know if you saw. I think that's one of

the best things ever done.

>> I haven't seen out of unbelievable.

>> What is it?

>> Oh my god. It's a It's a It's I I don't

want to spoil too much of it. It's only

four episodes.

>> They're all one shot.

>> They're all one shot. Each episode is

one entire shot.

>> Whoa.

>> So, the cast they took, I think, I

talked to the director about it. The

cast took I think a week to rehearse

each one and then a week to shoot it.

And so, so they they do it twice a day.

It's the full hour. They would

choreograph the entire thing. Yeah.

That's really

>> And then the acting is great.

>> But that's that I mean just dismiss that

even you could even call it a gimmick.

It's not in this case. But um the

performances and the writing and what

it's about it's it's as good as anything

you'll see. It's it's phenomenal.

>> What is it on?

>> Netflix.

>> Netflix. Yeah.

>> You know, you have like it's not this is

not even an anomaly. There's Baby

Rangers. There's [ __ ] Succession.

There's Game of Thrones, Ozarks. You

know, it's just like, okay, well,

they're doing great [ __ ] out there. It's

not like the sort of implied thing

before was like, yeah, well, TV's not as

good. We're not as interesting. It's a

serious

>> When we started, it was a there was a

different I I mean, like George Clooney,

for instance, like there was a big

thing, you know, he very famously, you

know, became this superstar on ER. That

show, 40 million people a week were

watching that show. It was the biggest

thing, right? Because [snorts] there

were only a few channels to tune into,

and that show was the biggest one. and

and George never renegotiated his

contract. He wanted to work in movies

and it was like you can't go from TV to

movie. It's very hard. Very few people

can do it

>> and he really strategically and kind of

patiently like he joked that on the last

episode he was on Anthony Edwards, you

know, his co-star was making a million

bucks for the episode and he was making,

you know, 20 grand or whatever his deal

was. Like he could have renegotiated but

he would have had to give more years.

>> That's how bad he wanted to get off TV

and do movies. That's how bad he wanted

to get off of the biggest TV show in the

world. Um because the there was such a

big kind of level change between

features and and TV.

>> Well, it was a giant difference in

quality. It was also this the breaking

it up for commercials, right?

>> It was just a different experience.

>> It couldn't be, you know, there was all

these rules like you can't say this, you

can't do that, you can't swear of

violence and n all the things people

want to see in movies, you know, and

then

>> and also it wasn't it wasn't as

interesting. And then now that's like

tethered to these schedules and all this

stuff or you get this [ __ ] like you

don't have a schedule and and you can

take a bunch of risks. So and that

started happening and then it was kind

of like well this all is just as good if

not better than what's in the movies and

>> well then movies started to move towards

more IP and

>> because it was hard to get people come

to the movies. everyone got scared and

thought, well, you have it there has to

be a sequel or a superhero movie.

>> And so an interesting little movie kind

of in the '9s when we kind of came onto

the scene, you know, there were a lot of

really good independent movies that were

being made. There was there was, you

know, it was a really great time to be

making movie. People were they were

making daring movies and and and then

everyone just got way more conservative

because it's huge. Like the business is

so different theatrically and streaming

because to put out a movie theatrically,

you have to put so much more money

behind it to publicize. Like you're

trying to get everybody

>> spending about what the budget was to

make it to advertise it because you got

50% of the theatrical.

>> Yeah. Because you split it with the the

the movie house, right? The exhibit.

>> So $25 million movie to break in. You

got to make $100 million. And so and and

you got to get everybody to not only

know about the movie but to show up like

that Friday night like that specific

time, you know, for that specific movie.

And so did and to cut through all the

noise that you people are contending

with. And you know,

>> so it just becomes about risk and nobody

wants to take the risk. So they don't

want to make something new because it's

such an investment. We're going to lose

all our [ __ ] money. And the streamers

stepped into that and like no, you know,

you didn't have to necessarily have a

star. You could try something more

interesting or didn't have to be a

superhero movie, whatever it was. And

also, I think it's like, you know,

frankly, like people my age, like it's

first of all, it's expensive, right? You

take your whole family, it's $100.

You're on a streaming service, $20 a

month. You can watch all you want. So,

you can't be cavalier about like you're

just going to price it however the [ __ ]

you want and expect everyone to like be

indifferent to that. And then, you know,

also,

you know, the idea of like for me, you

know, there's a lot of stuff I make that

decision like, do I want to see the

Odyssey on on a big screen? [ __ ] def.

I went to a theater to just watch the

trailer for that movie and you know did

I at one battle after another I wanted

to go see in the theater but there's

movies with people that I really like

and respect where yeah and I got a good

system and [ __ ] but I'm like look I'll

watch and I might get tired or I won't

pause it and take a piss or the kids you

know whatever it is

>> that's conducive to my lifestyle you

know and so and most I see few I think

most people are yeah

>> but there is the experience of seeing it

with a bunch of other people see an

awesome movie with a bunch of other

people it's like a shared experience

>> 100% I I always like

way more attent like like when I went to

see one battle on IMAX like you know

that feeling there's nothing like that

feeling I took you know two of my kids

and two of my nephews and my wife and we

all went and it was just it was like and

you're in with you know a bunch of

strangers but people in your community

and you're having this experience

together. I always say it's more like

going to going to church like you show

up at an appointed time you you know

what I mean? doesn't,

you know, the the experience of watching

at home. I think,

>> you know, you're watching in a room, the

lights are on, other shit's going on,

the kids are running around, the dogs

are running around, whatever it is. You

know what I mean? It's just a very

different level of attention that you're

willing to or that you're able to give

to it. And that has a big effect. And it

also ends up having an effect or is

starting to have an effect on how you

make movies. Like for instance, Netflix

um you know standard way to make an

action movie that we learned was you

know you usually have like three set

pieces. One in the first act, one in the

second, one in the third and you know

you kind they kind of ramp up and the

big one with all the explosions and you

spend most of your money on that one in

the third act. That's your kind of

finale. Um and now they're, you know,

they're like can we get a big one in the

first five minutes to get somebody, you

know, we want people to stay

>> Yeah. tuned in and and can and you know

it wouldn't be terrible if you

reiterated the plot three or four times

in the dialogue because people are on

their phones while they're watching.

[laughter]

You know what I mean?

>> And so then it's going to really start

to infringe on how we're telling

>> but then you look at adolescence who

didn't do any of that. It

>> didn't do any of that [ __ ] great. You

know what I mean? So I think it's and

it's dark too. It's tragic and intense.

this like guy who's finds out these kids

accused of murder and it's like you know

and and there's long shots in the back

of their head. They get in the car,

nobody says anything. I think there are

those look the these were feels more

like the exception. It's so masterfully

[snorts] made that it feels a little

more like the except I hope it's not. My

feeling is just that it demonstrates

that you don't need to do any of that

[ __ ] to get people, you know what I

mean? Like,

>> and I think, you know, yes, you know,

like, look, hey, the town had the action

thing in the beginning, the first five

minutes cuz, you know what I mean? Like,

it's a it's a common trick that you

would go like, let me grab them and get

him invested in the it's like the movies

that start with the hero hanging from

the cliff and now we're going to flash

back to the beginning and tell you how

they got there. Um it's it you know I

always feel like uh you know complaining

about it makes me feel like one of these

guys was like when I was a boy like you

always want to freeze the culture at the

time when you I don't know felt more

like you know we used to have these

phones the [ __ ] are all these phone and

everybody's looking at their I get it

yes it's true also it's like supply and

demand people want to look at their

phone they can look at TikTok they want

you know they're going to do that I

think what you can do is make [ __ ] the

best you can make it really good and you

know people can still go to the movies

it's not I think we have this idea of

that's like an existential threat.

Everything that comes along is going to

destroy everything instead of like

>> what history suggests is that there's

like marginal encroachments. Things

shift. Yep. As television came along,

there was less theater going and that's

still going to happen. And people are

still going to go to the movies because

of what you said. Like it feels like a

cool thing to do. I'm going to go see

The Odyssey. I guarantee you in a

theater, you know, no matter what fewer

of them, you could argue that's because

I have more choice or whatever it is.

It's hard to fight supply and demand.

That's the trick, right? If people want

to watch a bunch of stuff at home

because they invested in TVs and cost us

money, they will. So, okay. But the

upside of that is like I can try to do

something hopefully that's like that

actually doesn't need to, you know, have

the most urgency to get you to come to

the theater with your family. That's a

little more experimental or risk-taking

or whatever in that way.

>> Well, you got to adapt. I mean, there's

no way you're going to change people's

viewing habits now. Yeah. I mean, what

percentage of Netflix is actually

watched on phones has got to be pretty

high, which is insane.

>> Yeah.

>> Even watching on a laptop for me is kind

of like kind of sucks. You know,

>> it sucks.

>> That's a joke that I [clears throat]

like to make with every director I work

with. Like when they're really puzzling

over a shot or really grinding out

something, I go, you know, it's not

going to look as good on the phone when

[laughter]

they just everyone gets angry.

>> Takes the weight out of their [ __ ]

sales, you [laughter] know? No, that's

going to look great this [ __ ] bigs.

But keep [ __ ] around and lighting

that wall.

>> It is weird though the the concern for

the algorithm like making sure that

people watch like look we've got data

that shows within the first five minutes

when this happens they tune out. So

let's like my buddy Tony Hinchcliffe you

know he's got Kill Tony and now it's on

Netflix and so they're giving him notes

now and they can give him like but

they're not telling him what to do but

they're saying like this is when people

are tuning out and so let's you know

just so you have that data now decide

how you want to edit things. It's like,

>> yeah, it is because because the

>> it's like the the bar for for

walking out of a movie theater is a lot

higher than from just changing the

channel. Right.

>> Right. And often times, you know, you

directors will want to make a movie that

is challenging and upsetting. And I

remember Terry Kenny, my my friend,

great actor, and he he told me about the

experience of seeing Taxi Driver in New

York for the first time, right, in 76 or

whenever it came out. And he said, "What

I remember is not only the movie, but I

remember standing at the back because I

had got up. I got up out of my seat and

I went, but I couldn't bring myself to

leave because I was so invested, but I

was so he was standing at the back by

the door watching the movie." And he

goes, "And there were two other people

standing next to me who were doing the

same thing

>> just cuz they were disturbed

>> because the movie was disturbing them so

much." Wow.

>> Which is not a bad thing, right? So had

that been on on Netflix or Amazon, you

know, if somebody say, "Oh, I'm

disturbed." And they turn and they

change the channel.

>> Yeah.

>> Like that doesn't mean you shouldn't

make Taxi Driver,

>> right? That's true. Like the investment

of going to a place is much greater.

>> Yeah. And one of the values of that is

that you could you look at movies from

the 70s, the first act was 25, 30

minutes, right? You know, the verdict

for a great movie takes a long time to

get

>> the deer hunter. Yeah. I mean, that's

>> and and you're right, like what you're

saying, the threshold for walk out is

really like any scene like, ah, I want

to watch Naked Alone, like whatever, you

know, you flip the [ __ ] So, you're

you are battling that. And you know,

>> I watched Lemon's the other night, Steve

McQueen, and there's no one talks for

like five minutes. There's no talking.

It's just a bunch of stuff getting done,

just a bunch of people doing things. And

it's like, wow, you could make a diff.

You could let it air out back then.

Yeah.

>> It was they had a different respect for

what it was. Like you were telling a

story and you're going to let it air

out.

>> Well, they also knew where their

audience was. They were in a theater

that they

>> part of it was they wanted to come

there. I mean, this great story I like

is the first time they they

[clears throat] debuted a movie guys

with a with a projector in a room full

of people. It was a it was a movie of a

train pulling into the station. So they

put the reel up and they did the

demonstration and they showed the people

and everybody missed it because they

were turned around staring at the

projector. They never [ __ ] [laughter]

seen anything like that, you know? So

it's like the techn is upstaging but

like you come for an event, come for a

thing, we're all going to be here.

That's part of it.

>> It's um I don't know. There's competing

arguments. So you can think, well, what

do you get to do? And some people just

go ahead and [ __ ] it. Like Jim Cameron's

Avatar, I'm going to make my three-hour

movie and people are going to come and

great. You know what I And people say,

"Oh, well, you can't have a three-hour

movie." And he's like, "Well, I'm Jim

Cameron and I've actually got the number

one and two and, you know, movies. I I

think I got this." He goes ahead and

does it. You know, this history is full

of people who got told a bunch of

conventional wisdom and we're like,

"Yeah, but we're going to do something

different." And it, as it turns out,

>> like that's actually what people want,

too, is not for you to just repeat the

other [ __ ] that's been done before and

that worked before.

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One of the things I read that I thought

was really [ __ ] cool is you guys set

it up so that if this film performs

well, the entire crew gets bonuses.

Yeah,

>> that's awesome.

>> Yeah, hopefully it's successful.

[laughter]

>> I think you're going to get a [ __ ] house

if it doesn't great movie, man. It's a

fun movie,

>> but it's it's it's good, but it's not

like, you know, [ __ ] we're saints or

philanthropists. Like, it's completely

self- serving in my opinion because in

order to do the job well, everybody

who's working on it has to be really

invested and give a [ __ ] about the

result, not their paycheck only. And

sometimes you worry the crew that just

happen to be great anyway even though

they don't really have to care about it

and they do. And what we saw was like

that makes your movie better. And then

there's just the thing of like the

business is changing. You see these

strikes and work stop all these [ __ ]

questions in order for this I think to

to survive and to be you know a good

middle class [ __ ] art artist you know

artisal craftsman job. We got 1,200

people that, you know, need to have

reliable jobs. And part of the

negotiations is always like, yeah, yeah,

yeah, but we're all going to get [ __ ]

Like, we have no participation. Like,

used to working on movies, and it

happens to actors, too, where you go,

oh, we all invested. It was really hard

and we [ __ ] put in the extra effort.

Somebody else walked away with all the

success

>> and you, you know, my theory was was

with Matt was we were like, how about

where let's say, okay, it's just

fairness, right? this thing actually

blows up and does really well, you

should benefit from that. People have

been, you know, kind of given sort of

promises of of participation back and

that haven't come true. This is like the

crew. Everyone got their rates, everyone

got their hourly, no one cut anything.

This is just an exercise and actually

proving that it's not [ __ ] that if

there's success, you'll get some extra

little success, a little extra, a little

more, a little more.

>> But also, like you said, because it's

fair, you know, and and [clears throat]

and in success, the people who made the

movie should you know, should

participate in that. And and also with

this one, which was important to us,

there's, you know, they they delineate

above the line and below the line,

right? Like above the line being like

us, the director and the producers,

>> um, and below the line being kind of the

more bluecollar side of our industry and

and

>> like painters, grainsmen, camera,

everybody else, drivers,

>> and so we just wanted we we and believe

like when we started this company, we

were like, look, you know, we know who

makes our movie better, right? It's not

it's it's like they've this has kind of

been mispriced the whole time. Like the

economics have been wrong. Like when

there's a when there's a big success,

everybody who had a hand on it

>> because you see a great director that

people rely on or an actor that's

considered bankable, they're all going,

"Okay, I need all my people with."

>> Yeah. Every great director I've worked

with, and I've worked with a lot of

them, they have their regular crew

members that they that are ride or die

with these people because I mean, and

you said it to me when we were starting

the company, you were like,

>> you know, those department heads, you

know, who are each handling like, you

know, cinemat, you know, your camera

department, you know, your grip

department, your electric, like all

these this those people are

ultimately the people who make the movie

good. Like they make a demonstrable

difference in how good your movie is.

And imagine once [clears throat] you get

a good flow with a great crew, like you

got the band. Yeah. Like there's no need

to bring in new band members. Let's

let's do this again.

>> Yeah. And because then and then like you

have the situation where they all are

filmmakers too. Everybody knows what

we're trying to do. So like then what

makes it, you know, you're trying to get

something special, something

interesting, something [ __ ] magical

in some moment. You have to like if

people are tight or they've been out of

shape or, you know, [ __ ] up the

environment, people aren't relaxed,

actors can't do their best work. And

that does make a difference between

something that's good, average, great,

whatever. And I think that if you say

like, you know, it makes cognitive sense

to people, but if you look around like

what's Colin Anderson, camera operator,

right? Not the cinematographer,

>> but I would tell you he's the I think

he's the greatest camera operator there

is in Hollywood. If you want evidence

that he shot Marty Supreme, he was a

camera opera in one battle after

another. You know, he's you look at his

resume and you're like, "Oh, that's

interesting. These are all [ __ ] great

movies." Now, is he personally

responsible for all of it? No, because

it's a collaborative medium. There is no

like you can be a painter and paint by

yourself. You can be a novelist and do

that, sing, write music. You can't do

this job alone. Like there are a lot of

people that go into it. You know, even

my real like Matt was the lead in the

last movie I did air that I directed.

Having somebody so [ __ ] good in your

movie who also shows up, does his job,

is friendly, isn't [ __ ] around or

playing games or being weird like that

sets this tone. Everybody else kind of

goes, "Okay, what's Damon like?" Oh, I

see this. We're taking it seriously, but

nobody's going to be a dick. We're all

going to do our job. We're not going to

take ourselves too seriously, but we're

gonna take the job really seriously.

Immediately, everybody kind of snaps

into that. That trickle down effect goes

across the whole thing. And the I think

the the best thing that I know how to do

as a director is just create an

environment where people feel like they

show up, people like me, they're rooting

for me. I can [ __ ] embarrass myself

and be bad and it's not going to be in

the movie and no one's going to make me

feel self-conscious and

>> I'm listened to my ideas.

>> Yeah. And if I have something to offer,

they're going to go, "Oh, that's a good

idea." You know what I mean? And that

that's kind of the trick to in my view.

And then you're depending on the gifts

of all these people. Every single one of

them, you know, guys was, you know, some

woman's assistant uh propm is coming up

with like the stuff that, you know, Phil

Knight found, you know, his waffle and

the shoe, they found it on eBay, like

that's an extra mile. You know what I

mean? And if you make people feel like

it matters and you give a [ __ ] and that

they're contributing and oh cool, let's

do a close-up of that. That's really

[ __ ] cool.

>> They'll die for you. They'll go all the

way and it changes the whole

>> if you bonus them.

>> Yeah. [laughter] doesn't hurt either.

>> You know, it's not just all, you know,

it's it's not just there's an actual

like codified bonus structure to say

like we

>> this is a way of recognizing that [ __ ]

right? It's like in your paycheck, too.

It's not just real and you guys develop

this. Is this so something that you

like? Kudos to you guys for addressing

this first of all and recognizing it and

having that attitude because it's so

important and it's so easy for big movie

stars to just think about themselves and

their own.

>> We're communists, Joe. [laughter]

>> We're from Cambridge.

keep the car running. [laughter]

>> No, no, but uh but but each each deal

has had this kind of each deal that

we've done so far has been different

because we've made deals with, you know,

different studios and platforms and

stuff like that. And

>> it just involved us basically

retroactively going, "Hey, we came in

under we did a great job. There's extra

money. Here you go." Mhm.

>> This is the first time that we were able

to to actually create like a schedule

where it's like because and by the way,

we wouldn't have been able to do that

without Netflix going, "Okay, cool. You

think you can make this work? Is this

we'll give you a shot. Otherwise, we

wouldn't have been able to do it." So,

we had to say, "Look, we're not asking

you to take a cut, but you know, if if

we we can and we can tell you if the

movie is watched as many hours in the

first 90 days as like this movie a that

you all know what it is, then that's you

know 20% of your let's say, right? You

should take a hit." So it's like, yeah,

you make more money, your bonus is more.

It's all just pegged to where you're at

just because that was the most fair idea

we'd come up with.

>> So they gave us like five different

levels, right? Like the first couple we

hopefully we can hit and maybe the third

maybe we get and then it got to like the

fifth one

>> kind of like single double triple home

run

>> home run [ __ ] grand slam. The fifth

one was was 110% of all Netflix viewers

or something like that. So it's

everybody who has a Netflix account

watches it and then like 10% of them

watch it again. And we were like K-pop

demon this is the biggest but that's

what happened. We were laughing and then

K-pop Demon Hunters came along and

actually did that. That's the first

movie that's ever

>> Jesus.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I think a lot of autistic kids

watch that over and over and over.

>> I haven't seen I haven't seen [laughter]

it, but I I mean somebody's watching it

over and over.

>> Yeah. So, dude, people love it.

>> I mean, it's you know the the the value

of it is that because before this one of

the big things and everybody's fighting

over in the strike is like well share

your ch there used to be residuals,

right? and residuals and it was only for

SAG and a few other things but it was

like and you knew if you had a line in

the movie and the movie a certain number

like at the box office well you're going

to get another 2,000 bucks and that was

a big deal you get that check in the

mail and like okay I can pay the rent

for another month and I can do that [ __ ]

but then it then there was this like

sort of illde what constitutes success

because streamer doesn't actually sell

another ticket if you watch that movie

right it's hard to tell well why did you

sign up for this service right so for a

while everyone's looking at the first

thing that you looked that when you

subscribe to somebody, okay, you going

to go buy Hulu? What did you watch

first? The bear. Well, the bear must be

creating value for us. But it's you

can't assign a a strict numerical value

to it because it's unlike a box office

where you can go, well, you know,

Oenheimer is a billion dollars or

whatever and you know that's another

billion dollars on our balance sheet

because streamers are doing a

subscription model, you know,

>> it's, you know, whether it's like a gym

membership where in the [ __ ] you

know, first of the year you're like, I'm

going to work out again. I'm going to

buy that annual membership. And you go

twice or you go to the gym every single

day, you're paying the same amount.

>> Also, the weird thing is with streaming,

when you're opening up Netflix, it's not

like you're going to the movie theater

and there's seven movies playing. You're

opening up Netflix and you have an

unlimited option list. It's insane how

much content you could waste the rest of

your life sitting in front of Netflix

and then die and have, you know,

millions of hours more to listen to or

watch. And you're right, like when we

started researching that and built our

own data to poll people and examine all

this stuff, it's it's actually all the

library stuff that people are watching

all the time. if you said like the new

stuff is theoretically what what keeps

people with the subscription or whatever

but in terms of like volume of time I

think and doesn't come from them but it

looks a lot like you know going to watch

like orange and new black and the

episode of suits and the old Seinfeld

and Friends and what you know um Cupcake

Wars or you know that that's what's cuz

Americans watch six hours of TV a day

right

>> that's crazy

>> and then the other six hours they're on

their phone how [laughter] does anything

get done how does anything get done

>> when you started to make this film like

what what is the process like how did

you guys agree on it like what did you

guys have it written first

>> was Joe so

>> before you knew you were going to

Netflix with it

>> yeah yeah he came to us with the script

and we've known Joe for a really he did

a movie his first movie is called Narc I

don't know if you ever saw terrific

great movie

>> so we met him way back this 25 years ago

or something like that and so we met him

met him back then and Ben did a movie of

his4 four, I think. And so we've known

Joe for a really long time and kind of

been in touch with him over the years

and and he just sent this to us and said

and we read it and we thought it was

great and and and and bought it for the

company and then we started talking to

Joe about, you know, how he saw, you

know, how he wanted to do it and and he

suggested that we actually do the movie.

Um, and we and we were like, "Yeah, why

don't we do it? It seems

>> basically because we liked and part of

it's like we're not trying to just do

our movies. We want to be, you know,

doing movies with all these the people

that we like and respect and and and

then, you know, the way we sort of set

it up is such that to try to get like

the historically the way it's worked is

like the, you know, a studio will own a

an IB or a script or whatever and then

you cut and they'll say, "Okay, we want

you to do it." Okay, well, how much?

Well, how much did you get for the last

one, right? And you go then what's the

budget? And then that's how they assign

a value to it, right? But like my belief

was well especially when these streamers

are like coming into the market and and

chasing stuff is like this movie may may

be worth more it may be worth less and

that like we're all just subject to that

so we'll try to get the best price for

it and we'll all share it you know prata

and essentially that that was the same

process we've done eight I guess movies

or so now and and uh we took it out and

you know people wanted it and then one

of the things that was really appealing

about Netflix was that they were open to

this this idea that we've been trying to

institutionalize and was like, "Okay,

great. That's that's really meaningful

because ideally it becomes a template

that other people go, hey, we want to do

that thing, you know, and then go, oh,

here's the paperwork."

>> Yeah, that's the thing. Like a lot of

people say that they would want to do

it, but it now now that template exists.

So, it's like plugandplay. So, if you if

you're not full of [ __ ] and you really

do mean that, then guess what? Just take

this and

>> and it also is going to let you, you

know, I hope like manage the risk. In

other words, the argument you always

have is like, well, [ __ ] we got to

invest all this money in the movie. So,

you can't have your protagonist be too

objectionable. That's too edgy or can't

be R-rated because it costs this. I get

it right. You're going to put all your

money into it. You want you don't want

money to [ __ ] disappear. You want to

make money. Okay. So, if like when we

wrote the first movie that Goodwill

Hunting, it was like we knew that had to

be a cheap movie. People talking in

rooms to each other because no one's

going to put a bunch of money into a

movie with us.

>> Two [ __ ] that no one heard of. So,

it was like, okay, what can we do?

That's interesting that and try to keep

it as inexpensive as possible so that we

can make the argument that someone

should make the movie. That same logic

like carries through every time you're

asking somebody to invest in something.

So what I'd like to have happen is to

say, okay, now that we know there's a

reliable system where we understand that

like in success will actually benefit,

we can lower, you know, the price

upfront for you so that you can have a

low [ __ ] barrier to entry so that you

can take the risk so that we can do

something really interesting. That's

that's an original idea. That's a you

know that's an ABM or sinners or [ __ ]

Marty Supreme or whatever it is and and

then if it's successful we're not all

sitting here like [ __ ] where you

know you guys walk off with all the

money but and you can have that happen

in an ongoing way so that you can make

more interesting stuff. A lot of the

stuff that was going on with the strikes

was centered around AI and what AI is

going to do to the business. like what

where do you feel is going to be like

the biggest problem with AI? Is it going

to be with people's likenesses? Because

there's a lot of that where they want

they want to use extras and own their

digital rights forever essentially be

able to recreate them in any kind of

film. But then there's also you're going

to have films that are written by

artificial intelligence. You're going to

have scenes that don't involve people.

And it gets weird, right?

>> It gets really weird. But there's

actually an area for him.

>> Yeah, we've been spending time looking

at this. Like my belief is it's sort of

like what's going to happen with

electricity.

>> Well, a lot of shit's going to happen

with electricity. Some of it's going to

be good. Some of it's going to change

stuff. Some of it's going to be like,

you know, this is going to be, you know,

[ __ ] that kills a bunch of people. Like,

it's it's it's opening a door that you

can't um you know, say, well, talk about

in a kind of a blanket way. But I think

with what I see is like for example, if

you try to get Chat GBT or Claude or

Gemini to write you something, it's

really shitty. And it's shitty because

by its nature, it goes to the mean to

the average. And it's and it's not

reliable. And it's I mean, I just can't

even stand to see what writes. Now, it's

a useful tool if you're a writer and

you're going, "Uh, what's the thing? I'm

trying to set something up or somebody

sends someone a letter, but it's delayed

two days and gets and it can give you

some examples of that. I actually don't

think it's very likely that it can it's

going to be able to write anything

meaningful or and in particular that

it's going to be making movies like from

whole cloth like Tilly Nor like that's

[ __ ] I don't think that's going to

happen. I think it's not I think it

actually it turns out the technology is

not progressing in exactly the same way

they sort of presented it. Um and really

what it is is going to be a tool just

like sort of visual effects and yeah it

needs to have language around it. You

need to protect your name and likeness.

You can do that. You can watermark it.

You're those laws already exist. You

can't I can't sell your [ __ ] picture

for money. I can't. You can sue me.

Period. I might have the ability to draw

you to make you in a very realistic way,

but that's already against the law. And

the unions are going to I think the

guilds are going to manage this where

it's like, okay, look, if this is a tool

that actually helps us, for example, we

don't have to go to the North Pole,

right? We can shoot the scene here in

our parkas and you know whatever it is

and but then make it appear very

realistically as if we're in the North

Pole. It'll save us a lot of money, a

lot of time. We're going to focus on the

performances and not be freezing our ass

off out there and running back inside.

That's useful just like Spencer Tracy

and Katherryn Heburn used to be like

driving their car and there's a wind

blowing a painting behind them. and look

goofy and you [laughter] know now you

know in computer gener people use a lot

of computerenerated stuff and some of it

is going to replace just that like

instead of uh 500 guys in Singapore you

know making $2 an hour to to render all

the graphics for a superhero movie

there's going to be able to do that a

lot easier there's already laws around

and guild guidelines around like how

many union extras you have to use but

also we've been tiling extras like there

weren't a million orcs in Middle Earth

you know what I mean there aren't

Invictus there weren't all those people

in the stadium like that's something

we've been doing. It kind of feels to me

like the thing we were talking about

earlier where there's a lot more fear

because we have the sense this

existential dread. It's going to wipe

everything out.

>> But that actually runs counter in my

view to what history seems to show which

is a adoption is slow. It's incremental.

>> Um I think a lot of that rhetoric comes

from people who are trying to justify

valuations around companies where they

go we're going to change everything in

two years. There's going to be no more

work. Well, the reason they're saying

that is because they need to ascribe a

valuation for investment that can

warrant the capex spend they're going to

make on these data centers with the

argument that like oh you know as soon

as we do the next model it's going to

scale up can be three times as good

except that actually chatp5 about 25

time% better than chatbt4 and costs

about four times as much in the way of

electricity and data so when they say

that's like plateauing the early AI the

line went up very steeply and it's now

sort of leveling off. I think it's

because and yes it'll get better but

it's going to be really expensive to get

better and a lot of people are like [ __ ]

this we want chatb4 because it turned

out like the vast majority of people who

use AI are using it to like as like

companion bots to chat with at night and

stuff. There's no work, there's no

productivity, there's no value to it. I

would argue there's also not a lot of

social value to getting people to like

focus on an AI friend who's, you know,

telling you that you're great and

listening to everything you say and

being sick ofantic. But that's sort of a

side issue. I think for this particular

purpose, like the way I see the

technology and what it's good at and

what it's not, it's going to be good at

filling in all the places that are

expensive and burdensome and they make

it harder to do it and it's always going

to rely fundamentally on the human

artistic aspects of it. Well, I think

the more it becomes ubiquitous, the more

people are going to appreciate real

things that are made by real people, you

know, like you're you still appreciate a

handmade table, you know? You're you're

going to appreciate like Did you see um

uh The Beast in Me, Claire Danes?

>> Yeah.

>> No, I didn't. [ __ ] great.

>> Yeah, I heard it was great.

>> That lady

terrific.

>> When she's in a scene, you're just like

Jesus Christ. Like great.

>> Like you like her [ __ ] lips are

quivering like you believe everything

that she's saying. But you're right,

people want that. My kids want [ __ ]

cassette.

>> I'll say like I I did this interview

[clears throat] with uh with Dwayne

Johnson because they, you know, they

when people are in these awards things,

they sometimes have other actors

interview them, you know. And I did this

interview with Dwayne and and and I

asked him, there's this scene in the

Smashing Machine where where he's

overdosed on drugs and his buddy comes

to see him in the hospital.

>> Yeah.

>> And and it really walloped me this

scene. I thought it was so great. And

and I asked him and I was just like,

"Can you just tell me about this scene?

Like, did Benny Benny Safy directed it?

Did Benny write this write that? Did you

work on that scene with them? Did you?"

He goes, "No, we we actually worked on

it together." And I go, "But how did

that scene come to be?" And Dwayne goes,

"Well, my father was an alcoholic." And

I don't remember if he said substance

abuse or alcoholic, but I didn't know

the man. I don't want to impug him, but

but he had he had a substance issue,

whatever it was. He goes, "And and when

he would talk to me, uh, you know,

that's how he

would defend himself." It was almost a

bargaining thing because there's this

thing when this guy comes to him, he's

overdosed and Dwayne's amazing in this

scene. He's he's going like he's going

like, "Yeah, isn't it crazy?" And then I

woke up and I mean, I could hear him,

but I couldn't really hear him. And you

see him and he's kind of tap dancing and

his friend finally kind of holds his

feet to the fire. And at that moment,

Dwayne literally

starts to burst into tears and just

pulls the hospital sheet up over his

head. And it's like and it's and it's I

mean it just it was I'm I'm not doing it

justice if you haven't I mean I know you

I know you've seen

>> but um he said yeah. So he explains that

about his father and then he goes and

and uh when my mom was diagnosed with

stage three lung cancer. I was with her

when the oncologist came in and she was

lying in the hospital bed and when he

gave her the news, she pulled the sheet

up over her head and [snorts] I looked

at her and she just looked like a little

like a little kid, you know, and I was

like, "All right." [snorts] Like, so

that right is two traumatic events from

this guy's life, right, from his life

experience.

And the actor in him, right, sees this

scene,

goes into his

memory pulls these two things out,

understands that they're appropriate for

this scene, and he can marry them

together in the scene, and then he goes

and performs it that way. And

[clears throat]

a dude walking in off the road, goes to

the movies, sees this, understands

somehow that it's [ __ ] real. I I

didn't know why. I That's why I wanted

to ask him, how did that scene come to

be? genuinely didn't know and made me

tear up and you know like that is

>> there's no [ __ ] AI that can do that.

>> No, it's the whole lot more than

photorealistic images.

>> Yeah, you you could you could you could

have an AI understand Dwayne's face and

move his face into different No [ __ ]

thing could ever do that.

>> The complications of real life

experiences relayed.

>> That is a completely human That is an

that is an artist. That's a piece of

art, right? that comes out of a lived

human experience.

>> That movie gave me so much anxiety.

There's moments where Emily Blunt is

arguing in that movie. I said I really

said I I I was like that I think I think

that's the best she's ever been. I love

you know we live in the same building in

New York. She's like very dear friend of

mine and I and I I I I was like I I

really think that's the best she's ever

been. And then I said and then I blurted

that out to Chris Nolan and and he kind

of stopped and looked at me like he

didn't say it but he was kind of like

she's pretty [ __ ] good in my movie

too. [laughter]

>> Well, she's great period.

[clears throat] She's great period.

>> She's great period. But there's

something about that. Well, I knew Mark.

I I knew Mark from I met Mark in 97 when

he was fighting in the UFC. So, [cough]

I knew the whole journey of him. And I

was so happy for Dwayne because it was a

film where instead of being this [ __ ]

superhero blockbuster Hulk of a man, he

gets to be that, but be an a great

actor. And you know, you can't really

get a person

>> to look like that

>> to express emotions and and and he was

Mark Kerr. If you know Mark, I mean, it

was [ __ ] great actor.

>> I completely forgot it was him and

somebody who had seen it before told me

that was going to happen and I was like,

"All right, we'll see." Yeah. [laughter]

And it was like from the second it

started

>> it didn't get the credit it deserved in

terms of like the amount of people that

went to see it. But I think overall in

time people appreciated.

>> Yeah. That's one people go back to and

talk about

>> because it's a movie about MMA. So a lot

of people are like I don't want to see a

movie about a bunch of [ __ ]

meatheads. But it's not. It's just a

movie that happens to be around MMA but

MMA. But it's a great movie. The the the

scenes are [ __ ] fantastic. The acting

is so good and the right and even the

the fight scenes. They're so realistic,

man. It's really like they I've saw all

those fights. They recreated those

fights about as good as you can get

>> and just his crazy struggle. And you

know the story behind the documentary,

The Smashing Machine.

>> No.

>> So, The Smashing Machine was made when

Mark was at the height of his powers and

pride. And he was the most terrifying

guy in the world. He was 265 lb of solid

muscle just blowing through people.

Didn't even look like a human being.

Everyone was terrified of him. No one

knew he was a drug addict. No one knew.

And he spiraled out as they were

filming. And he let them film him. Let

them film him shooting up. let them film

him like bringing this giant bag of

pills with him and all this [ __ ]

everywhere and just completely falling

apart. While they were supposed to be

capturing this hero movie of the

greatest fighter in the world, he's

falling apart like live in front of the

documentary. It was [ __ ] amazing

documentary.

>> I got to see it.

>> It's really good. But the I was so happy

that they put it in a film and I was so

happy that it gave Dwayne a vehicle to

show what he's really capable of because

he's so limited by a lot of just the

parameters of the roles that he was in.

>> Yeah. And by and by like galactic

success, too, right? I mean, it's it's

it's he he has he had to

>> and will continue to have to

>> push

>> for that, right? Because it's

[clears throat] what he wants, right?

and not because what because what what

they are going to continue to want him

to do is you know the thing that that

that mints them money. Um

>> yeah but I suspect that his experience

and feeling about this movie

>> from the conversations I've had with

him. Yeah. This this is this is

>> this has changed him.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I mean it's like this thing that

these superhero guys have to do where

it's like something has to change

because otherwise you're going to be

boxed. Yeah. And with a guy that looks

like that, it's so easy to put him in

that box.

>> And so you see him now, he's thinner.

He's lost a lot of weight. Dave Bautista

went through a very similar thing, too,

right? He wanted to be he wanted to have

more range, wanted to have, you know,

more opportunities to do exciting and

different challenging things.

>> Well, I think also coming from where he

came from, right? It's like you talk

about going from TV to movies in the old

days, try coming from wrestling to to

like the biggest movie star in the

world, right? It's very it's like it's

incredible that he did that and now he's

in this place where he's got this

leverage as because he's so beloved and

you know that that he can kind of tailor

the tailor what he wants from from here

on out.

>> It's hard to bring the audience with you

and like no no I know you like this

thing but let me let me show you

something else. You know it's sort of

like you go to the concert the band

wants to play the new songs and play the

[ __ ] hits. [laughter] You know

it's always a little gilded gaze. All

right. [ __ ] it. satisfaction.

>> Yeah. [laughter]

>> No, I love the song, too.

>> You know, my my acoustic thing that I

did, you know.

>> Yeah. I went to see the Stones and when

they were here in town and there was a

few songs they played that were like new

songs.

>> Oh, really? See the audience is like,

"Okay, okay. Go get a beer. Get the

other one." [laughter]

>> Yeah. That's But I mean, but you know,

every artist, I guess, has to make that

choice. And he's made it. and and it was

amazing vehicle too cuz he still kept

that superhuman hulkish frame and then

but also showed like god there's like

amazing depth there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And that's the thing that's I think

especially because it's a it's

collaborative it happens with other

people. That's what movies do that other

[ __ ] doesn't do which is just create

like you feel for people. It's empathy.

It's all made up right that's not him.

That's all it's all an illusion all

[ __ ] But if you do it really well

with like, you know, somebody that seems

to really be feeling something like all

of a sudden, I think what it does, it

touches like these things in ourselves,

you know, it has that same effect that

Dwayne went through of articulate to you

about like these moments that were kind

of burned into his memory. Then really

the best movies are kind of almost blank

screens that we project our own [ __ ]

like, oh yeah, I my father died or I

went through this with my kid or I'm

[ __ ] I feel [ __ ] alone and and and

and miserable and and here's this like

hopeful moment that someone has to go

maybe I can maybe I can do something,

you know, they inspire you, they touch

you, they move you and the thing to go

for. The other thing is, you know, it's

a is to to tell a lighter story, to go

through the more typical sort of tropes

of it all. And it's a

>> either way, you're in somebody else's

perspective for a few hours and

hopefully it breeds compassion.

>> Well, when it's done right, there's a

magic to it where you forget that it's

happening and you're there when the most

amazing trick is when it's done by

famous people. You know, I was talking

to Ethan Hawk about this. There's a

scene with him and Kevin Bacon when in

uh that movie with Julia Roberts about

the end of the world. I forget the name

of it.

>> Right. Yeah, tomorrow

something people will find it. But it's

great, great [ __ ] movie. But there's

this scene where he's trying to get he's

talking to Kevin Bacon. Kevin Bacon's

got a gun to him. And it's so [ __ ] I

know that's Kevin Bacon. I know that's

Ethan Hawk. It doesn't matter. Like

you're [ __ ] locked in. You're locked

in. You're like, "Oh shit." Like that's

the magic. And And he was like, "But I'm

locked in too." Like that's it's like a

hypnosis. It's like everybody is in the

scene in a very bizarre way. Like you

you have the lines, but you're living

it. And so, and that's either done or

it's not done. And when it's not done,

>> you could tell someone's kind of just

performative.

>> You feel it when you're watching it.

>> Yes.

>> If if it does that thing and it pulls

you in, then it's happening.

>> That's the magic of film.

>> And sometimes you trick people, I guess,

but for the most part,

>> for the most part, you don't. you're

feeling it and you it's really

happening. It's much more like

>> other human beings recognize human

beings experiencing real [ __ ] Yes. They

they mirror like I know what

>> sorrow looks like without having to

[ __ ] I can't break it down for you or

I even you know you we all know kind of

what like oh he's a little anxious right

now or did I maybe offend him or you

know all these little things and when

some like in the rare moments when these

big feelings or the things happen you

feel it too you know and you usually

like an example is there's an old saying

about like you know actors try to cry

people try not to cry Like because when

you're really experiencing that [ __ ]

you don't want people to see it. You

want to hide it. You want to No, I'm

okay. I'm fine. You know, it's like

>> you want to pull the sheet up over

Exactly. Exactly.

>> But the other thing that's really

interesting from from our side of doing

it, because he and I have talked about

this a lot, is and I've always said

publicly, like great actors are good

enough for both of you. Like when you're

in a scene with a great actor,

>> that thing that Ethan's talking about,

that hypnosis or whatever you want to

call it, that energy, that that place

where you go, right?

>> They're bringing you right where they

[ __ ] tractor beam. They will suck you

right in with them. And like as quickly

as you look into their eyes and you're

like, you're like just there. And it's

like, and it's not like it's like riding

the easiest wave you've ever ridden in

your life,

>> you know? It can be the hardest thing in

the world and it can be the easiest

thing in the world. When you're with a

great actor, it just it's just if the

scenes

>> Yeah, that's the real paradox is like

all the stuff that I'm the most proud

of, the weird thing about us has felt

very easy at the time. And the [ __ ]

where you're banging your head against

the wall trying to get blood from a

stone and killing yourself and the whole

thing and it just

>> it ends up [ __ ] feeling empty. And

the thing about the stuff that I'm proud

of is I'm my insecurity is like should

be harder than this, right? Are we are

like we work hard enough? Are we get you

know

>> and learn to kind of just trust that? Go

feels good. Let's just keep going, you

know? Well, there's some scenes in this

movie without giving too much away where

there's conflict between you two guys

that seem so real and that's even harder

to recreate because you guys are good

friends and you're making the movie

together and you've got this scene where

you're acting in this and with the

conflict with the two of you guys the

movie, but it's very [ __ ] real.

>> The reason that it was real is that I

like that scene. The reason it's it it

it works, I think, is because

he's coming at me and he's he really

needs to know something and I'm

completely blanking him.

>> Like I'm just he's going, "You got to

tell me what's going on, man." He's

like, "It's awesome." Like, "What what

is going what is the thing?" And I'm and

I'm just like literally kind of blanking

him in this bizarre way which which like

was really frustrating him in real life

because he he was that feeling of like

it's [ __ ] tell me dude it's you and

me like when he finally goes he screams

out I don't trust you right now that's a

[ __ ] problem right which is like what

you would say to an old friend like what

are you doing man like what

>> what what are you do like

tell me the [ __ ] the betrayal me or

tell me the truth. Lie, lie to me or

tell me talk to me and like step outside

our whole relationship and all of a

sudden

>> just act like

>> give me this weird look of just like I

don't know, you know, like [laughter]

and so when we were doing the scene,

it was really [ __ ] pissing [laughter]

him off. I could see him like getting

>> There's the one line that wasn't written

that I saw I didn't remember doing was,

"I would have never [ __ ] you like

this."

>> I I would have never [ __ ] you like

this. Yeah.

>> Which I didn't even remember saying is

George, I like that. Keep that thing. I

wouldn't have [ __ ] you. And I was I

thought I was like what is he what did I

just you and I so watched the playback.

It wasn't those rare moments again. It

was like where it was that thing of you

doing all the work by by not doing

anything which I didn't expect that to

be the choice that you made and it just

was confusing and felt like just you

know leaving you out in the [ __ ]

cold. I the only thing I could rely on

is like I you know I I would I wouldn't

do this to you [laughter] you know. So

do you have in those moments where

you're you're ad living a line where a

line come is it just just that feels

like that's what you say?

>> Yeah.

>> It's just kind of like he couldn't stop

from saying it, right? You know,

>> but you have to be working with somebody

that makes that okay. You know what I

mean? Cuz the part of your brain that

will like govern you or tell you

something's not okay, whatever, will

step in if it's sort of like, you know,

listen, I expect you to [ __ ] do this

boxes. And there's there's uh directors

and writers who who really do really

care about every word precisely and that

you know and that's that's how they do

it and that's fine. That could be great

too. For me like it it I find it's it

becomes more interesting and sometimes

better stuff happens if you actually

feel like you don't have to say any of

the lines. I don't have to say any of

the lines in the scene. Then I'll tend

to say the ones that feel right. But it

but like it's that it's that fake thing

that never happens in life which is I'm

never sitting here talking to you and

think what's my next line? What am I

supposed to say and how should I say

that?

>> And it's not about the lines ever. It's

not about the word. It's about what's h

what's the scene about? What's happening

in the scene?

>> It's one of the reasons why curb curb

your enthusiasm is so great

>> cuz Larry David just gives you a place

to get to.

>> Yeah. Like

>> it gives them an ag kind of a loose

agenda of what's going to happen

>> and then films a bunch of stuff and

everybody figures it out.

>> Yeah. And a lot of times that show's

about the awkward [ __ ] in between when

people are missing each other or not not

sure of themselves and a little

embarrassed.

>> [ __ ] genius show.

>> It really is.

>> And and and people talk like we're

talking like you occasionally talk over

each other. There's a stumble. There's

no one know like what what what the [ __ ]

are you talk? There's weirdness [snorts]

to

>> because what's also happening is that

forces you to really listen, right? And

that is that is the hardest thing to

kind of learn for young actors I think

is is it's really all about listening.

And like I did a bunch of movies with

Paul Greengrass and that's how he works

where he where you just know the agenda

going in. You know some basic things

that you you know what your guy needs

going in. Like I was playing a chief

warrant officer and I had to go through

a door and there was a guy and I needed

to interrogate him and I this is what I

needed to know from him. I needed to

secure the house with my guys and I

needed to get to this guy. We needed to

make sure everybody here was secure. So,

and it just and they and he put me with

a bunch of real

combat veterans and we [ __ ] went in

and you know they're the

>> another thing that does your job for

you.

>> It's just being around the real people.

>> Joe putting the the cops from Miami, you

know, on these parts and it just like by

osmosis you feel more legitimate. The

thing feels more authentic to the

audience. You don't know why because you

don't know what the how what the [ __ ]

culture is of the nar tactical narcotics

team in Miami. But when you see the real

guys, you kind of oh you're like, "Yeah,

that seems right."

>> Miami was a perfect place to have it,

too.

>> Miami.

>> Well, it's also specific to this because

it's based on this real tactical

narcotics [snorts] team in in in Miami.

And and uh and the guy who ran that,

this guy Chris Casiano is Joe's friend

and he's the guy that my character is

based on. Um, so Chris was Chris we

went, you know, we rode along with Chris

down there. We went with that team and

watched them operate and then hung out

with them and then they came up and they

were, you know, all in the movie and

Chris was around as a technical adviser

the whole time. So any question like

little details, all right, how do I go

through this door? What do I do? What do

you do here? What's the what's the

protocol here? What you know, all of

that stuff was kind of overseen by him

so that it so that it was how they

really do it.

>> That whole [ __ ] town is so Did you

ever see Cocaine Cowboys? Yes.

>> Oh [ __ ]

>> The entire [ __ ] graduating class of

the police academy one year either wound

up murdered or in jail. [laughter]

>> But that's what happens. All of a sudden

you push so much [ __ ] money into

something, right? And it's like and

before they even kind of figured out

like

>> you know and it was there wasn't even a

lot of stigma. I was like, "Ah, cocaine,

whatever. It's kind of rich guys fun

drug." But, you know, is there some

statistic about like, you know, the

amount of money in the banks in Miami

was like the same as the rest of the

country?

>> More [laughter] banks per capita in

Miami than anywhere else in the country

>> because they were just laundering money

and they got away with it. They

literally got away with it.

>> Have you ever flown over biminy? You

know, the island. So, so if you fly

over, ever fly over Biminy, there are

all these like Cessnas underwater, all

these planes like around the island cuz

what they used to do, Bimin is like the

closest it's 50 miles off the coast of

Florida. Um they would they would come

in with a plane full of drugs and just

crash the plane into the water. They

would land it on purpose.

>> On purpose because there's no runway on

Biminy. No, it's like [ __ ] it. We're

going to dump the plane in the

>> They would have 10 cigarette boats, like

a flotilla of boats waiting. They would

crash the plane. They'd offload the

drugs as the plane was sinking, right?

And and then they put it they put

[laughter]

the Coast Guard like figures. They're

always coming for them. That's why they

have 10 boats. They throw the drugs into

one of the boats

>> and they got a one out of 10 chance of

making it. They just scatter

>> and the Coast Guard goes after one of

them and hopes they get the right one

and not. It's just like, "No, it's just

taking a cruise tonight. What's the

problem, officer?"

>> But the planes are still all submerged.

Like you could The water's so clear. You

can see

>> how many [ __ ] Oh, wow.

>> There you go.

>> Wow.

>> That's crazy. How many [ __ ] planes

are out there?

>> I flew over it probably 20 years ago.

But I mean there's

>> Yeah,

>> that wasn't a

>> I don't know how long I mean but if you

think of probably the cost of one of

those little Cessnas probably wasn't I

mean with the amount of drugs they were

moving on on Yeah. There you go.

>> [ __ ] wild.

>> That's great. They're kind of landing

where it's sort of shallow. [laughter]

>> Yeah. They land and it's like

>> [ __ ] it. We can swim

>> 5 to 10 feet of water and what do they

they land at whatever 55 knots. So you

just try to

>> looks nice too like sure you can

be comfortable but I mean Sully landed a

737 or whatever it was in water.

>> Yeah. [ __ ] wild. What a crazy part of

our culture that that happened.

>> Yeah.

>> That the the the whole cocaine run

during the 80s in particular like Miami

Vice all that [ __ ] like it's like it

shaped the entire country

>> for sure.

>> Oh yeah. I just remember that one guy in

that documentary who was like I think he

was from Boston and he was like the

pilot and he had figured out the route

and he was like man

>> like we could have gotten away with this

forever. [laughter]

>> It was somebody talked and he knew

that's the only way we would have been

caught. He was like I I had it all. He

was clearly really smart.

>> One of the guys did too. You know what I

mean? There's a whole lot of people out

there that were like yeah we had a nice

run back. [laughter]

>> It's why I got eight houses. You know

it's like

>> Oh yeah. That's one of the real crimes

that people got away with was bringing

cocaine into this country. There's a lot

of people that got very wealthy,

including banks, which is just really

crazy.

>> Banks or the jewelry companies, [ __ ]

Jag. There was like more Jaguar

dealerships in Miami than everywhere

else in the country. And it was like

doesn't pay to ask questions. So, yep. I

guess a lot of people like our cars

here.

>> You don't say all cash. Sure. [laughter]

>> Yeah, we can make you a deal. Sure.

Well, how many backyards in Miami still

to this day have bags just buried

somewhere that nobody knows about?

>> It's probably worth just checking.

>> When you buy a house in Miami, just dig

the yard up.

>> Well, at least find out who owned it

before you. Oh, he's a pilot.

>> Get a truck. [laughter]

>> Get a tractor. It's time to dig up the

backyard. I mean, one of those guys in

the films had millions of dollars just

buried in his backyard. They had nowhere

to put it.

>> They were making so much money, they

just had to bury it places.

>> That's [ __ ] crazy. Well, it's why

it's a perfect backdrop for the film,

you know, because you know that the

situation that the cops without giving

away too much of the plot, but the

situation that the cops are dealing with

is a very real situation. I mean, so

many DEA agents turn dirty. So many cops

turn dirty. It's because it just get

temptation. It's like you take this

these people, you know, you got like

six, seven people, they [ __ ] work for

a living. They have the same [ __ ]

they have to deal with. And there's $20

million, you know, and it's I mean it

makes for a great like drama too. Even

like the you know in the performances

because all of a sudden somebody's