This boy and girl are going to be well

equipped when the time comes to take

their places as worthy members of adult

society.

Aloha y'all. This is Daniel Eisman, the

host of the Breaking Normal podcast,

where my guests are all invited based on

the frequency of synchronicity, all done

in person and all trailblazers and the

breaking of all things normal. Welcome

back to the Breaking Normal podcast,

y'all. I was just making a note in my

meme journal because the guest today

said it. He was quoting Mark Twain and

it was, "I would have written you a

shorter letter, but I did not have the

time." So, I think I'm so thankful that

Sean Heinrich is sitting across from me

with a creative constraint to talk about

what matters the most in the moment.

>> Yeah.

>> Thanks for being on the breaking

podcast.

>> Such a pleasure to be here.

>> Yeah. Um I Cheyenne finally bridged the

gap because we have crossed paths in

like the funnest of breaking our ways. I

literally it's like I think we've

crossed past like five or six times.

This is how I remember it

>> here in Boulder. I think we have a lot

of mutual connections. But

>> of course

>> you were literally coming out of the

freezing creek or I'm literally coming

out of the steaming sauna and like we're

going in different directions, but I

keep hearing amazing things about you

and I now I really got to hear a lot

about you recently because you just

hosted an event here in Boulder.

>> Yeah, Ocean Bloom.

>> Tell us what happened with Ocean Bloom

here in Boulder a couple days ago. Yeah,

it's kind of wild because people often

ask me like what is a ocean guy doing in

the Rockies and I kind of like where the

planes crash up on the mountain shores.

But the honest truth is for me living in

Colorado is like this really spiritual

grounded place. The mountains is like

for me where spirit resides

>> and where the oceans is is like heart to

me. It's like the healing healing

vessel. It's like the womb of the earth.

It's the birthplace of life. And one of

the things I've always wanted to do was

take this experience, this deep visceral

like healing mother earth experience

that I have in the oceans, connecting

with these incredible whales and manta

rays and dolphins and bring it to my

community in Boulder. And I'm like,

well, how do I, you know, would I put

them all in a truck and drive them here

and create a huge aquarium?

>> No. Or I thought maybe I can take

everyone, but how am I going to take,

you know, thousands of people to the

ocean? and this incredible musician

Samuel Jay and I have been collaborating

for years doing little spoken word

events and we said why don't we do

something here big scale so we contact

contacted our friend Ally and she was

like well I can help you produce this

>> and we brought this event to about a

thousand people in the Boulder Theater.

>> Wow. And it's it's it's a visual

storytelling event, but it's not like in

a classic sense. It is it's taking

people through storytelling, spoken

word, but also instrumentals, live

violinists, backup vocals,

instrumentals, guitars, all weaving in

with the storytelling while we have this

30-foot, you know, 4K screen projecting

the very stories that I'm telling

>> connections with whales and manta rays

and dolphins. And then we weave in like

a tapestry out of the stories into songs

that deepen that feeling that you just

had in that story. So imagine five

minutes of story into five minutes of

song. And we do that for almost two

hours.

>> Wow.

>> And then we bookend it with these

incredible local singers and DJs and

together we create this wonderful sort

of artistic musical tapestry that lasts

about six hours. And so literally your

cup is full but it's full of the ocean.

and you come away and people are like,

"Did you try to raise a lot of money?"

And I'm like, "No, that's not the goal."

That's a byproduct of when someone falls

in love with something that you care

about. So, the entire mission of Ocean

Bloom, which is my mission, is to help

people remember what it means to be in

real deep resonant connection with

Mother Earth. To feel it in your bones,

in your tissue, in your heart, in your

soul. And then from that place, you

become interested, passionate, and

curious to make a difference. So, we get

to the heart of it and then we just let

you sail.

>> Wow.

It's amazing that was not there. Is

there another one coming up?

>> Well, we'll probably do one next year.

>> Okay.

>> But we don't just do them in Boulder.

>> Okay.

>> We've done them in Bali and Mexico. We

have Middle East, several places that

want to do it. We have London wanting to

do it. We've done several in LA. It's

kind of something that's starting to

build momentum and the idea is to make

like you know every other month

somewhere in the world to a large venue

start bringing the ocean to the people.

>> Well the feeling that I get in my body

when you're speaking is what you are

you're walking the talk. I feel a little

oceanic

uh being here with you.

>> Oh good.

>> Yeah I'm stoked. Um,

and I even recognized was Aya Nero at

the

>> Aya was the she picked up a a 90minute

incredible dance music electronic vocal

set that built like it was almost like

the wave was crashing in and we opened

up the floodgates and just let it pour

out into the people.

>> She's been a guest on the show before we

had the studio. So wow. Next time she

comes in town, I would love to have her

because she has a similar vibe. Like

even we I wasn't with her in person like

this, but I get a similar oceanic vibe

from her.

>> Everyone in the event was not an

accident or like to draw a crowd. You

you had to be in deep resonant frequency

with the mission and the vision and the

heart and the soul of the event. And

she's definitely that.

>> Well, how are you from Boulder?

>> No.

>> But you live here now.

>> I do. Uh, how'd that happen?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I am kind of curious about

because before we started the show, we

were talking about chronological versus

chyros time and I wanted you to talk

about that. But chronologically, can you

give us a little bullet points of how

you got to Boulder?

>> So, actually, I was born in Durban,

South Africa.

>> Okay. Wow.

>> And for the first seven years of my

life, I lived a a very different

lifestyle than you experience in

America. From the age of two or three,

you know, I had like three brothers and

sisters, and my rule was you had to be

you couldn't leave before sunrise and

you had to be home within a half hour of

sunset.

>> Wow.

>> Old school.

>> Yeah.

>> So, we would just disappear into the

into the woods into the into the ws and,

you know, there were black mambas and

green mambas and baboons and all kinds

of stuff even where I lived.

>> So, it was like a it's the real deal.

And so my connection with nature wasn't

something that, you know, somebody took

me on the weekend to go see. It was

something that was a part of my every

breathing moment of my life. And you

know, you wore barefoot or sandals to

school and, you know, you were in the

forest as the school was just sort of

cut into one section on a hillside. So I

was always in nature, but just a stone

throw away was the Indian Ocean.

>> And we're not talking about just any

ocean. We're talking about the Cape Horn

just just south of us. And every winter

you'd have the vast migration of

sardines called the sardine run

>> come roaring up the coast. 10 miles the

ocean would turn black with sardines

bubbling up and you'd see these patterns

emerging as the big sharks would be

moving through the sardines trying to

hunt them. And then from behind you'd

see a pot of 10,000 dolphins come

charging in as thousands of Cape Ganets

come soaring out of the sky and dive

bomb into it. And then just to add to

it, you'd have whales breaching behind

it. So the ocean that I knew as a child

was the most bountiful, endless

kind of abundance you could have ever

imagined. And that's what I thought all

the ocean was like.

>> And then I left Africa at seven. My

parents were teachers. Moved to

northeast Philly. And now I was way away

from the ocean. And I started to realize

that the life that I thought was

everywhere was a very small pocket left

on this planet from the life that people

were starting to live mostly which was

one of much greater disconnection.

>> Cities and buildings and sidewalks and

shoes and jackets and t color TVs. We

didn't have a color TV where I lived. We

had two hours of television a week. It

was like Bonanza and one other show that

would turn on for two hours on Wednesday

from 6:00 to 8. That was all there was

when I was a kid in South Africa. And

suddenly everyone has Saturday morning

cartoons and everybody was somewhere

else but outside.

And so I had to find my little group of

friends who wanted to join me. And I

would spend every afternoon and every

weekend walking along the creeks looking

for fish and eels and exploring the

forest that happened to be as close to

my house as possible.

And that took me up until about, you

know, my 20s. And I wound up realizing I

needed to earn money. And uh my parents

had six kids and they were both teachers

and made $30,000 living in America. And

that wasn't easy. So I decided I was

going to get really smart and really

good. And I went I wound up getting a

scholarship to University of

Pennsylvania Wharton School. And I was

also a nationally ranked wrestler. So I

became a division one wrestler, captain

of the wrestling team and sumakumla

Wharton graduate and I was on the track.

I had Goldman Sachs offers. I had

everything lining up and I was like whoa

what is about to happen to my life

moving to a concrete jungle and it just

hit me in that moment that I just

created the very life that I had fled

from my entire childhood and I was about

to create it and then a buddy called me

up and said, "Hey, we're starting this

little tech company in Boulder. can you

be our CFO and business bisdev guy? And

I was like,

sure. And I just packed up, no more

suits, no nothing. Moved up out here and

was wearing barefoot shorts and a

t-shirt. And for 12 years, I worked in a

tech company right across the street

from this office on Spruce and Broadway.

And we were doing 3D visualization

technology, all kinds of stuff. I wound

up setting up deals with countries

across the world, governments of Japan,

and built this entire business. And then

one day, I realized

I'm doing it again. I'm going to make

all the money I could ever need,

but the one thing that I crave is

nature. And I'd taken up scuba diving at

that point. And I had my little camera

and I was taking photos underwater. And

I was like, "Wow, this is it. I either

become multi multi-millionaire and I

have all the cars and all the houses or

I do what I was put on earth to do. And

I remember talking to our CEO and I

said, "I gotta leave." And he's like,

"What?" Like, "You raised $20 million

for this company. You did all this

stuff." And I was like, "I have to

leave."

And I wound up orchestrating a

transaction with Nvidia,

which is now the world's one of the

world's most valuable top three valuable

country companies in the world.

>> And I did a six-month transition, moved

my entire team there.

>> And uh they offered me the deal I could

never refuse.

>> And I said, "No way." And they're like,

"We'll double it." Stock was $2.50 a

share. Then

last year it went up to $1,100 a share.

500 t not 500x 500 times

I would have been who knows what and I

walked away from all of it and I got six

months severance and that's the only

thing I ever got out of that deal and I

just ran to my work which was I was

going to use my camera my storytelling

to help save the oceans and I never

looked back and there weren't oceans in

Boulder so I got on a plane a lot

>> wow

Can you give me a timeline of when you

left that the Nvidia transition? When

was that?

>> That was 2008.

>> 2008. We are in

>> 17 years ago.

>> Okay. So that So you've been on this

mission for 17 years.

>> How long was the stent here in Boulder

with a tech company?

>> 12 years.

>> 12 years. Okay.

>> Wow. All right. So my guess,

>> yeah,

>> knowing a little bit that I know about

you and a little bit that I know about

the ocean, my guess is you're very happy

with your decision.

>> I realized I mean people are like,

"Think about the deal I turned down."

>> Mhm.

>> And they were already taken off and like

I actually chose literally the two

worlds in the most juxtaposed you could

ever imagine. You know, I would have had

100 million easy like here or here,

right?

I I when I remember looking at the VP in

the eyes when he made the offer and I

said there's no amount of money on earth

you could offer me to keep me from my

purpose because I knew at that point I'd

gotten to the point in my life I tried

other things. I tried business school. I

tried all the things and I knew at that

point in my life that there's no amount

of money on earth that's more important

than a man and has a purpose. When you

are absolutely in devotion to your

purpose, you wake up every single day

knowing why you're on this earth.

Doesn't matter how shitty it was.

Doesn't matter how hard the day was. It

doesn't matter what's going on. You know

why you're here and what you were put to

do. And that gets you through

everything.

>> So age 0 to 7 you were there in Durban.

>> Yeah.

>> So it almost seems like your journey

which seems to be the journey of most

people is to go back home.

>> Go back home kind

>> like metaphorically in a way. And I did

go back home and I went back and I

filmed the sardine run three times. I

was in with the sharks, in the water

with the dolphins, in with the whales,

underneath the the ganets coming down

and I came back to experience right in

the water what I'd always witnessed from

the shore as a child.

>> That's what I was wondering. Were you

ever diving as a child?

>> No. Seven.

>> Wow. What a story. So I came all the way

back circled to my home and dived right

into the spot which had really driven my

entire life from the age of just a small

child

>> because you had like the ultimate

temptation to take you away from home

and you just decided to return home.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Never regret it. I still

absolutely know I made the absolute

right decision.

Is there a book or anything about this

yet? Not yet.

>> No.

>> There's a movie Racing Extinction

>> is about your the story.

>> There's about four characters in it.

It's a real it's a real documentary

about activists using storytelling to

make an impact. And it came out in 2016

on Discovery on in 200 countries in 44

languages.

And it was the largest environmental

documentary release in history at that

point. And it covers a big chunk of my

work using my camera going I was an

under there's a whole much more I for

the first decade I spent with my camera.

I was an undercover uh environmental

journalist. So I went undercover into

mafia and triads and shark fin

operations around the world. I'd hit

orders on me, assassination orders. I

had machetes at my throat. I was shot

at. I was chased out of countries. I was

banned from countries.

>> This this is when you left Boulder. This

is when you first got

>> This is when I came out.

>> Stepped out. And that's the first thing

you dove into

>> Yeah.

>> Was

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. What What do you call this field?

Like um

>> I was a I was a Well, I was an uncover

investigator and environmental

journalist

>> combined. Wow. Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> How did you decide to do that or like

what was there something that triggered

you?

>> Yeah. I spent a lot of time in my

business development work with the tech

company working in Asia.

And so I would work in these cities and

you'd go to these areas

where the the seafood markets

>> and you would see every single thing in

the ocean for sale. You'd see manta

gills and shark fins and whale shark

fins and turtle shell.

>> Shark fins.

>> Oh yeah. Everything.

>> Turtle what?

>> Turtle shells and turtle combs and

turtle this and turtle that. And it it

looked like an apocalyptic genocide

being waged on these the oceans across

all of these different cities. And I got

sick of it. And so I just started taking

we didn't have phones with cameras back

then. So I started taking a little

camcorder with me. And that didn't work.

And so I just took an SLR that had the

first SLR came out, a Canon that you

could also record video on. I just put a

strap around my neck, put it on my head,

and I just walk into stores and just

start talking to people. So, I started

filming this entire trade happening.

And

I had this such deep unwavering belief

in the power of what I was doing that I

literally created a force field of

protection and invisibility around my

recording.

>> And people are like, "There's no way you

can do that and have them not

recording." And I'm like, they have no

idea I'm not recording. And one time I

remember a guy asked me, he goes, "Are

you recording me?" I'm like, "No." He's

like, "Okay, just once." And I recorded

warehouses with 100,000 fins pouring out

of bags. A guy that showed me six

Sumatran rhino horns that were highly

illegal, and he was bragging about how

they had just poached them over in

Sumatra. And I filmed all this stuff.

And I didn't realize at the time that I

was operating in triad operations.

These guys deal heavy, but I didn't care

honestly. And I started sharing that

footage with environmental groups and

news agencies. And so I sort of just

stepped into it. And then suddenly BBC

wanted footage and CNN wanted footage

and you know PBS wanted to do a feature

and then Dan Rather wanted to do a

feature on my work. And eventually

suddenly I was becoming one of the

preminent undercover investigators for

marine life for sharks and rays and

whales and all kinds of stuff. And so I

just went full in and every month I'd be

some crazy part of the world and on a

beach in Ecuador hiding behind stuff,

filming the illegal shark fin trade. I'd

be undercover in Kessanuma, Japan

in in ports where they'd be landing

7,000 10,000 sharks in a day for a tuna

fishery.

and whailing ports and all this kind of

crazy stuff.

>> Wow.

>> It was pretty heavy.

>> Yeah. Are are you still doing that type

of work or like what what

>> a little bit but not much.

>> So then it evolved into this work that

the foundation of that wild world which

I have a million questions about evolved

into

>> Well, what I realized is it was around

2015

I had covered everything. If you look up

my name in illegal wildlife or shark or

any you'll see just and the entire world

had been just exposed to the hor horror

of the illegal wildlife trade. It is

beyond anything you've ever imagined.

The cruelty, the destruction, the the

soulless barbarism is beyond.

>> And I just, you know, I'd have to have a

smile on my face. I just sit there and

pretend I was a part of it. And I had

all kinds of covers. I was a seafood

buyer, seller. I was a uh tourist that

got lost in the in the alley and here I

am now. And I I did all the covers.

>> Was your cameras visible

>> the whole time? Just sitting around my

neck

>> that you could just see this

>> right there. Okay.

>> Full-on big camera sitting there just

like that. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> All right. Okay. Didn't mean to

distract. Yeah. And so I did that and at

some point I I realized

I was like

there's no way people can be asleep at

this point. They have to know what's

going on. And I had this belief that if

I showed them the truth, people would do

something about it. What I didn't

realized is that there's a lot of

barbaric things happening in this planet

and people eventually just shut off to

it.

>> They don't want to know what's going on

because it's too much.

>> The only time they want to know is when

it's something they deeply care about.

And I'd missed a critical step. People

weren't in love with these creatures,

with these habitats, with the oceans and

nature the way I was. And as best as I

could do to bring this story, this

visceral, powerful, compelling story

about destruction, there was no level of

shame and blame

>> that was going to ever change anyone. In

fact, it was pushing them away. So, I

remember the day I just said, I can't do

that. And I wrote this blog. It's called

The Dark Room. And I back then people

were blogging a lot more and it got

translated by other people into like a

dozen languages and it went across the

world and it was a story into my journey

into the heart of darkness on a personal

level. It was the first time I ever put

my face forward and named for it as a

guy doing this and how it had destroyed

my soul and blackened my heart. And the

word hope was one of the worst words you

could ever use. It was like giving me

the finger to say hope

>> because I had none

>> and I needed to do something different.

And I realized

I can help people fall in love. I need

to bring them into my heart and into the

beauty and underwater with these

animals. And so I shifted my entire

focus from one of death and destruction

to one of connection,

love, healing.

And wow, I remember the first image I

put out, it went to 100 million people

and Yahoo and all the different things

just syndicated. And it was people

looking over the side of a boat and this

giant whale shark kind of looking up

under the boat and it was a split shot

half and half and I didn't even try to

syndicate it. I just was like this

touched my heart and it just

I was like whoa the power of that and so

many messages. What is that? What's a

whale shark? Is it a shark? Is it a

whale? And then I got to tell the story

of this amazing sentient being, but also

the threats it was facing and people

cared.

>> They cared.

>> Wow.

>> And that's where I really picked it up

and started moving into human connection

and stories of people connecting with

nature and then diving into my personal

connection. And what unfolded was the

last decade of work, a body of work

about our capacity to connect with

sentient beings and habitats, nature,

all of it, and how that can heal us,

transform us, and bring us in a greater

a much deeper, greater sense of

resonance. And that resonance is not

just good for the planet, it's really

good for you and me and our communities

and our families.

>> It's amazing. And I also am curious

about your other your family. What about

your sisters and brothers? Are they on

similar paths or different paths?

>> I'm kind of the blue sheep of the

family.

>> Okay.

>> The ocean

in the colors. Yeah. I'm like the gray

sheep of my family.

>> Yeah. Right.

>> Actually, yeah.

>> I have an Most of my family wound up

migrating to Boulder, which is great. My

parents got We got my parents out here.

I got my brothers out here. I got my

sister out here. And we all live in the

Boulder area. And I'm really close with

my family. They're amazingly awesome

people. They have they have more

traditional classic jobs. One of my

brothers is a doctor, one's an engineer,

one's in finance. My sister's a teacher.

And

but they all like love nature. They all

love to be outside. We share that

connection. But I sort of was always the

one on sort of the edge of the extreme.

And I just I knew I couldn't walk that

path for me. and I just had to just

literally step off the plank and dive

in. So, it's interesting. It's like my

family has held me and like who what is

up with Sean? Like what's up with that

guy?

>> And as as the stories have unfelled, I

did a Netflix series called Tales by

Light in 2019 with this amazing director

and several of the episodes feature my

work in Indonesia and around the world

as a storyteller. And they all got to

watch that and they're like, "Ah, we get

it. That's what you're doing. that's why

you're doing it. So, as as my work has

become more like because I used to hide

behind the camera as an investigator

>> for a decade and then me stepping

forward was like, oh, and finally we

know what you do because I was always

kind of hush hush, you know, CIA type

stuff, right?

>> Yeah. Wow.

>> I mean, it's an amazing story. I

definitely think a book is in order.

>> My daughter I have two daughters.

>> I was about Yeah, that was my other

question. What's your family structure?

You have two daughters. I have two

daughters. One is 18 and one is 21.

And they are incredible. My oldest

daughter is one of the top five American

Ninja Warrior women in the world.

>> The oldest.

>> Yeah. What's her name? I want

>> Annabella Hinrix.

>> I want to make sure I look her up and

show her to my daughter.

>> She is one of the strongest women I've

ever met. She is so powerful. And I

train with her twice a week in the Ninja

Gym. One of my sport is American Ninja

Warrior.

>> Okay. And I've been on the show with

both my daughters, which is really

exciting.

>> What's that episode? We've been Yeah. Do

you know how I find that? Do I just like

type y'all's name? Okay,

>> you'll find us.

>> What's your other daughter's name? What?

>> And my other daughter's name is Sakura.

And

>> y'all, we're all on the show together.

>> Yeah.

>> What in the heavens?

>> And my older daughter, she's been a a

Vegas finalist three times. Like she's

one of the tippy top.

>> Okay.

>> Like beating most.

>> But she lives in Boulder.

>> She lives in Boulder.

>> So she could do the hundred Sundays with

us.

>> Yeah. Well, if if she wants to, we do

this. We do a 100 pull-ups at 1 pm on

Sundays at Evine Parks. Yeah.

>> And we keep theorizing. There's like a

debate if a a girl can do it or not. We

don't do 100. What we do is a pyramid.

So, we do one and then two all the way

to 10 and then back down. 9 8 7 6 5 4.

>> Oh, there's no question she could do.

>> Well, we might we need to. Yeah, we

would love to. Oh, yeah. Let's bring it

on because there's a lot of women

wondering what to do in this. And we had

a girl in San Die.

>> She just locked in her one- arm pull-up.

>> Whoa, whoa, whoa. I can't do what I'm

wait.

Wow.

>> Yeah.

>> Are they on social media where people

could I have a feeling I have a athletic

group I think that follows me. So

intrigued by this.

>> Yeah. She's phenomenal. She's got

multiple top five world placements and

all kinds of stuff.

>> Whoa. She trains here.

>> She trains uh mostly in Longmont.

>> Okay.

>> Arc Ninja with with uh the community out

there.

>> Wow.

>> We have some We have like three of the

top five women in the world who train in

Longmont Boulder area.

>> Okay. And then another two amazing ones.

>> Well, you I used to do I used to host

health retreats like pretty and I might

still do this in the future and we've

sprinkled in some things but um we had

this late girl at our retreats in Kawaii

named Jesse Graph.

>> Oh yeah,

>> she was strong. That's why I tell the

group

>> competes with Jesse.

>> Okay. So she's still competing. Jesse.

Oh man.

>> Jesse's one of the longest time women

compet competitors out there.

>> That's what I was telling you. I was

like if Jesse was here she could do 100

Sundays for sure.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Wow. Where's Jesse living these days?

>> In California, I believe.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, I know Jesse.

>> Yeah, she's I She came to our retreat in

um it must have been like 2019.

No, maybe earlier, but yeah, it was a

big one. It was the biggest one we ever

did in Kilawa.

>> Sounds awesome.

>> Yeah, it was amazing.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah, I might be able to do your hund.

The most I can do is 25 pull-ups in a

row.

>> Oh, that means you can do it. I think

anyone that can do Yeah, we're we're not

pushing it that hard.

>> Can do for sure. Yeah, like we're doing

10 max at once. So, it's a pyramid

style.

>> We do these sets. We do sets where we do

10 seconds off, 10 seconds on, and we

you try to do 10 across.

>> So, you try to do 80 in in 10 seconds

on, 10 seconds off.

>> Okay.

>> I can get to like 70.

>> Oh, yeah. Where do you Where do you all

You do this with your daughters?

>> We do this at the as burnouts at the

ninja gym. You want the strongest

hanging pulling.

>> There was a There was a 9-year-old in

the gym yesterday who did a 40minute

dead hang.

>> What the [ __ ]

>> What do you mean? Do you mean he didn't

take it?

>> She She

>> hung on the bar for 40 minutes.

>> And didn't take one arm off.

>> She shook out.

>> So she would shake back and forth.

>> Yeah. But for 40 minutes.

>> 40 minutes. I didn't How old? Nine.

>> Nine.

>> Is that a world record or no?

>> I don't know if it's not. But it's like

she she got bored. Her mom put a YouTube

video in front of her and eventually

she's like, "Mom, I'm bored."

>> I'm going to have to go check this gym

out with my daughter.

>> Yeah. Come to AR company.

>> Arc Ninja.

>> What in the world? That is impressive.

Well, that's amazing. I mean, you look

extremely fit. I'm a little How old are

you if you

>> I'm 54.

>> 54. Yeah. This is, you know, there's I I

know quite a bit of inspirational people

in my life and a lot of the men that

seem to age really well are obsessed

with the ocean.

>> Yeah. It's good for me. I've been in the

ocean. People are like, "You got to

worry about the sun." I get so much sun,

but I get if I go to a skin doctor and

they're like, "Wow, you have amaz."

They're like, "How's your skin so

healthy?" I'm like, "A lot of salt

water. a lot of sun.

So, it's been good to me and the family.

And then my younger daughter right now,

she's in Bali, she's 18. She's taking a

gap year and she's into film making,

photography like me. She's they're both

daughters are great divers and free

divers. And my younger daughter, yeah,

she's she was my media intern for the

last six months doing my social media

videos and all kinds of stuff. And she's

trying to figure out where she's going

to end up. But cool, two cool, really

cool daughters.

>> According the world record under age of

10 is 33 minutes and 45.

>> Yeah, she just crushed it.

>> So the she

allegedly that girl just crushed the

record without know without maybe even

being aware of it. I don't even know.

>> Wow.

>> She's like, "Mom, I'm bored."

>> Wow. Um, how much time has passed by?

>> So

>> All right. Perfect. Perfect. Is there

anything you want to make sure that we

talk about? Because like I said, I have

a million questions.

>> I think we're doing great.

>> Do you do a lot of podcasts?

>> I've done a few a good number. Yeah.

>> What's your favorite show that you've

been on?

>> What's my favorite show I've been on?

You know what was really fun is I did I

did a Shark Week podcast and then the

the guy who was doing the podcast said,

"Can we do a second one?" And I said,

"Yeah." And he goes, "The shark stuff

was great, but your spiritual beliefs

and philosophy about connection and life

is way more interesting to me." And so

he did it again and I just got to talk

about what really matters to me, which

is what's happening within our vessel

and our connection. And that to me is

like I used to think I was here to save

the oceans but really I realized my work

is to help people come back into their

their being come back into resonance and

from a place of being aligned and deeply

connected

the possibility for healing oneself

healing one other one another and then

ultimately helping to heal the planet

becomes a reality but not the other way

around. We can't go out to fix it if

this vessel is not aligned physically,

mentally, spiritually, and emotionally.

That's one of the reasons I'm really

healthy. I am plant-based. I don't

drink. I don't smoke. I don't put

dissociative drugs in my body. I sleep

well. I uh I meditate. I train. I do

breath work. I do cold plunges.

I I hang out with high vibe community. I

sing. I dance. I move.

I use really constructive, empowering

language so I don't make myself a victim

and self-limit myself. I'm always a

student and anyone from a tiny little

totest

person or craziest person always has

something to teach me. Like I believe

that if I walk with that level of

devotion within my life, that which

comes forth from me will be beautiful

and will be abundant. But it has to

start with that.

And I think that's one of the messages I

really like people to get is don't go

out there looking for it. The answer is

right here in all your senses and and

your spiritual senses.

>> Well, I want to hear more. I can see why

the guy would ask for a second podcast

about that. Was there a origins to this?

Like did this like come in conjunct did

the ocean teach you this? Is this based

on a few books?

>> Generally, if someone says, "Did you

read this book?" 95% chance I'm gonna

say no.

>> Okay?

>> And it's not because I don't believe in

books. Sometimes you happen to walk a

path where you get direct access

if you allow it. If if you I call it

hearing not hearing but being being

hereing

when you're fully physically emotionally

intellectually present

the teaching that is available to you

from that plant that wall from you from

anything that just goes off the charts.

There's so much wisdom and knowledge

within every fiber of the universe. It's

like this incredible fabric mycelium

that is speaking to us always. But not

just here. It's not the call of a whale.

It's being in the field of a whale. It's

being held in the ocean. And it took me

years of first trying to go fix the

planet with my journalism and expose and

show and force people to change to

surrendering and realizing

a little baby mantra. I remember it told

me. It said, "I'm really appreciate you

trying to save me. We don't need saving.

You need healing. please go do your

work. And I was like,

>> you said that baby Manoray told you

that. Can you explain how how that

happened?

>> It was late late afternoon in Papua, the

heart of coral triangle, epicenter of

marine biodiversity. And I'm sun's

setting and I'm swimming along a little

reef and this little baby manta, not

even as big as this table, comes

swimming out to me and I'm like, whoa.

Hey. and it puts its wing right over my

head and I look and it taps me and it

gets stunned and it rolls up underneath

me and for the next three to four

minutes I'm belly to belly with this

little manta and our eyes lock and I had

my camera in my hand these are all

filmed people are like really and I'm

like look at the footage and I just had

I just left it running

>> and I'm just cruising slowly and the

baby manta ray is underneath me and we

just lock eyes and I'm looking at this

little being this being's never met a

human for it's barely just born and

mantra are they have the largest brain

of any shark array they're highly

intelligent social beings and the belly

is the most vulnerable part and it's

just showing me her belly

>> and I just remember floating along and

floating along and I remember in that

moment I was like I'm going to do

everything I can to save you and I just

heard this voice

as if spoken but it was like in my being

and it was like thank you and that's not

what we're here for you think you're

saving us, but we're here to help you

how to learn how to heal. I was like and

I just started crying. And then our eyes

stayed locked and the baby stopped

swimming and murray rays and sharks sink

if they don't swim. And I'm just

floating above this baby and she just

starts plummeting towards the reef

completely eyes transfixed on me and I'm

just looking and she's about to hit the

reef and I energetically was like,

"You're going to hit the reef." and it

caught herself and then turned and now

I'm above her and then she turns around

looks at me and as if aren't you going

to come and I'm like I can't breathe

water yet. She was like, "Okay, lesson

over." And then I watched she did a

little wing flap and then she just

disappeared into the blue

and I was like,

"Wow, there's an entire encyclopedia

right there. There's a book." And I just

sat with that and I meditated on that.

And that became this transformative

moment for me where I realized I don't

filming's great and I I do my film work.

I need to be here here

with these beings. And that's taken me

to humpback whales and southern right

whales and blue whales and sperm whale

families. I babysited a humpback whale

for three hours while its mom took a

sleep.

Babysitted a humpback whale. I had a

sperm whale come and cuddle with me for

30 minutes.

And these stories go on. I had a whale

shark kiss me in the middle of the 10

miles off the coast of Teeour for three

hours.

>> Kissing me.

>> What kind of shark? Whale shark. Whale

shark. Okay.

>> Three meter whale shark. 10 foot whale

shark. A juvenile

>> came up to my boat was rubbing on the

boat. I got in and then for the next

three hours she followed me around and

just kept kissing me. And all of this

started happening when I learned that it

wasn't about me projecting my experience

there, but me surrendering this eye and

allowing myself to fully dissolve into

what is real, which is the shared

consciousness, the all consciousness.

We are not separate. And as soon as I

let go of that concept, they're like,

"Oh, you're one of us. You're a whale.

You're a whale shark. You're a manta

ray. Come play with us. Oh, here's my

baby. Babysit my baby.

and everything transformed my life and I

started to realize that this is these

are the ancient teachings in their

purest form. These are what it means to

be fully alive, fully connected, to be

absolutely intricately

meshed in with that beautiful fabric.

And the more we do that, the abundance

in our hearts and our spirits, the

healing that happens in our bodies,

the you you reverse age. you start

sucking in and drawing in the power, the

chi of the universe because you turned

on the faucet and you opened up the

pipeline.

And I was like, "Wow, if only other

people could understand that." And I

realized my work has now become not

saving the ocean, which was this sort of

masculine warrior thing,

>> but actually inviting people into a

place of healing and connection. And

from that their desire to protect those

things they love will manifest in that

work.

>> So ocean bloom.

>> Yeah.

>> That's how this is seeming to be this.

All this is being actualized

>> as one form. Yes.

>> That's pretty amazing.

>> Yeah. I do films. I'm I'm creating I'm

building my live stream which is a

three-part streaming service uh story

about whales and the teachings of the

whales and how they connect ocean

systems and connect cultures and connect

people. It's been a life it's a

multi-million dollar series

>> and I just started filming it.

>> Wow. So my ultimate expression is I want

to get it out to the planet in all

languages in all forms so that people

can feel what I feel and maybe from that

place of wholeness

come back into service not extraction

from mother earth.

>> Can you tell me about the babysitting

situation?

>> Yeah,

I might cry.

I'd spent about two weeks in the Kingdom

of Tonga, which is near Fiji in the

South Pacific. And every winter,

southern winter, the humpback whales

migrate up from Antarctica, their

feeding grounds, to these island groups,

and the mothers give birth to their

babies in the shallow coral reef areas

for protection.

>> Wow.

>> And there's a couple places in the world

where you can swim with them. Kingdom of

Tonga is one of them. And I've been

going there for about 15 years. and just

incredible experiences.

And I thought I was deeply connected.

But a few years ago when I really

transformed into this journey of not

capturing the story but becoming one

with the experience,

it all shifted. And I remember it was

the last day of the trip and everyone

had gone home. It was just me and I I

dripped in dropped in the water like

6:30 in the morning and the sun had

barely crested the ocean sur, you know,

the horizon. And I see this mother and

baby just floating and I'm like, "No

hurry." I just stopped swimming. And the

current just happened to be working in

my favor. And it just drew me closer and

closer to them. And as I got closer,

really really slowly, I just was doing

slow, shallow, I mean slow, deep

breathing and and just opening myself up

and really settling into the water, I

just felt the mother just witnessed me

in this way that was really profound.

And she came up with her baby. And she

brought her baby like this, touched on

her nose, right to me, this close. I

could scratch the barnacles on her nose.

And now imagine something the size of a

school bus with something the size of a

VW Beetle draped on its nose. And I just

remember the baby I look at the baby and

the baby's eyes are fast asleep and the

mother's eyes are wide open just staring

at me and I'm just transfixed and I'm

like what's going on here? And I heard

this voice again and people are like uh

you're anthropomorphizing your ultra

spirit. I'm like, "No, I heard this

voice. That's mine to hear."

>> And it was like, "You know I'm mother

whale." I'm like, "Yeah, of course." She

goes, "But did you know that you are

mother whale?" I'm like, "What?" She

goes, "We are all mother whale and this

is our baby. So, of course, you can care

for this baby." And I just, again, tears

of salt matching the ocean filling my

mask. And then she dropped down to about

30 feet and the baby just started

playing with me. And for about 10 20

minutes, the baby was chasing me around,

trying to pick me up, trying to hug me.

And then when the baby got tired, mommy

would come up, pick up the baby, and

hold the baby, let it rest, and then

she'd go back down. And this happened

for three hours in a row. And if they

came up apart from me, she would turn

and bring the baby back to wherever I

was floating.

And she trusted me with her baby. And I

just remember after a few hours it was

the water's like 72 degrees and I'm just

in neoprene. Not not in neoprene. I'm in

Lycra. I'm cold.

>> And I'm like I ask her and I at this

point we have this just energetic

conversation. I'm like when does this

end? She goes I'm not leaving you. I'm

like what do you mean you're not leaving

me? She goes, "I know in your life

you've always had this feeling like just

when it's time the thing you love is

taken away and you it leaves you. This

time you get to be full, completely

full. So I won't leave until you're

ready to leave." And that just broke my

heart wide open. I'm like, "You're not

leaving."

>> And eventually it got to this point

where I was like so cold but also like

so full. Like it was the best thing

ever. and there's nothing left in my

tissue that needs anything more. And she

was floating down at her feet and I swam

down below and I came up and I just

looked in her eye and I was like, I'm

ready. She's like, okay. And I swam to

the surface and the moment I turned

away, she picked up her baby and she

swam out of the bay into the ocean

and that was it.

>> Wow.

What date was that?

>> 2023 October. No, no, September.

I think it was September 23rd.

>> Man,

I I got I'm so just like there's so many

whale breeds and everything in my mind.

Remind me what breed was this?

>> Humpback.

>> The humpback.

>> When I see whales off of Maui on the

Northshore in the winter, humpbacks.

Okay.

When I see whales off Cabo in January,

>> humpbacks.

>> Humpbacks.

>> Now, when I see whales

off um Diamond Beach in Iceland,

>> those

>> Iceland in August,

>> that would be humpbacks.

>> Humps. Are there orcas as well?

>> There's orcas.

>> Are there orcas? Sure. 100% or seen or

there? Definitely orcas and humpbacks,

but you also have minks and fin whales

up there, but they're usually further

off the coast

>> because there are lots of seals swimming

in Iceland. You spent time in Iceland.

Is that really?

>> I haven't been to Iceland since they

resumed commercial whailing.

>> When that I've heard different things

about that, like it goes back and forth

>> and then it went off again and then it

came back on again, then went off again.

There's just one guy there who gets off

on killing sentient animals. sort of

that deep broken masculine because I

can.

He does it because he can can't even

sell the product.

>> What whale is that? Is it a specific one

or

>> minky and fin whales?

>> Both. Either or.

>> Yeah.

>> Um,

>> what about the shark situation in

Iceland where they kill the old one, the

Greenland sharks? 500y old sharks uses

firewood,

>> but then they don't they do something

with the they ferment them and sell them

as like a delicacy? Yeah, they ferment

some of the the meat. Yeah, it's those

sharks are the oldest sharks ever.

>> And they kill them.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> They kill those fer meat.

>> Yeah. You know, cuz they need them

>> cuz they want to.

>> Wow.

>> And what about the firewood part? What

were you saying?

>> Yeah, they dry them and they're oily

because to survive in super cold water,

you have to have a lot of oil in your

body and so they dry. They let them like

dry and then they burn them. Fuel.

>> Wow.

>> It's really screwed up.

>> Okay. And now you you said you were

plant-based.

>> Yeah.

>> Does that mean you were a vegetarian or

a vegan?

>> Vegan. Yeah. How long have you been

doing that for?

>> I've been I was vegetarian for 20 years

and I've been vegan for almost 10 years.

>> Wow.

>> And I've

>> Does that mean like you eat honey? Like

if I brought you honey?

>> Uh I'll have a little bit of honey but

not that's like the exception.

>> Okay.

>> Because we're not killing anything to

take that.

>> Yeah. What about the elk antler? I

brought elk antler. Would you would you

>> No, I don't want elk.

>> They don't kill the elk for that.

I'm the strongest I've been in decades.

>> Well, I am. There's It's funny. Do you

know Darren Oolen?

>> Uh

>> Darren Oolen from Shakology and he did

like uh this show with Zack Efron.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know who you're

talking about. So, considering what you

just told me and then knowing Darren, I

would say y'all are like the

two best um

yeah, the two best like showoffs of how

you can thrive on a vegetarian diet even

at an older age

>> more so.

>> Um that's most other guys I know are

they're old and thriving like older and

thriving like you know you remind me a

lot of Lear Hamilton. Yeah.

>> He's not a vegan or a vegetarian,

>> but he reminds me a lot of Darren.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Who is?

>> Yeah.

>> Fascinating. I Hey, I'm an investigative

journalist here. I've tried uh I I have

tried vegan diets for extended period of

times and then now I sell uh actually

bison organs and alk organs inside of

capsules as as like the ultimate

multivitamin.

>> Yeah. the the the product is not that it

doesn't exist in animals but for me it's

the reason I became plant-based is I'm a

highly energetic person like extremely

sensitive and whatever I put in my body

I don't just feel the energy of the sub

the like the nutrient I feel the energy

of what was in it and so most of what we

eat now I think a wild elk will have a

very different lifetime

>> this is interesting by the way you're

saying what you're saying

>> but if you have something that was

raised in enslave slavery

>> and torture like dairy, milk and all

that

>> that I believe I don't believe [ __ ]

excuse me I don't believe I experience

>> that trauma and I feel it in my body and

I feel it affecting my health and my

mental state and I remember when I was

meditating with the river and I asked

it's like in terms of what I put in my

body and and what the river told me was

as long as you honor us and keep your

vest vessel clear the the animals will

continue. I had a best friend deer a

deer was a best friend of mine for two

years and we would sit on my porch every

day for 10 minutes

>> here

>> in Boulder. Yeah. Okay.

>> I have a friend that's a fox.

>> I went for a hike with a mountain lion.

>> Now that now we're talking a new

language. Is that here in Boulder as

well?

>> Yeah.

>> You went on a hike with Can you

>> with a wild mountain lion? Yeah. I'd

been meditating above my property on old

stage every day for about a month and

for about a week I kept feeling

something watching me as I had my eyes

closed looking at the from the ridge up

at Long's Peak. I'm like, I know you're

here. And then one day, the next day, I

came up early in the morning and I'm

hiking up the hill and I had my little

meditation music in my ears with hearth

through. And then I just look over and

I'm like

and just right on the trail, this little

like animal trail is on its honches is a

mountain line just staring at me and it

was like 20 feet away. And I'm like,

and my first reaction was

I knew you were there. And I had this

sense of joy and gratitude and this like

thank you for caring for this land for

keeping the deer herds in in in

management for keeping this entire

system and and for toughing out the

intrusion that we brought to your to

your home and staying here. And the

mountain lion looked at me and I my my

heartb didn't even just didn't even move

a beat. It was just poof and just I my

body flooded with all these beautiful h

happy hormones and chemicals and I could

just see it staring at me and it was

like well you're not afraid of me. I

didn't feel any fear and you're not a

threat to me. You're like part of the

land. I'm like yeah. So it got up, kind

of looked over it shoulder, turned

around, and then I walked up and started

walking behind it. And for about five

minutes, we walked along this trail,

this this deer trail along the ridge.

And it would just look over his shoulder

at me, and I just be like, and then

finally it got to the the edge of the

where the pine trees are on the on the

on the on the excuse me, on the north

side, got to the edge where the pine

trees are on the north side of the

ridge. And I kind of looked back and it

pounced into the woods. And I came right

up and then I was about to just walk

into the woods and I was like,

"That's where the journey ends." I was

like, "The mountain lion said goodbye."

And I just tuned right into the shift of

energy. I was like, "That's where it

ended."

>> You remind me of The Jungle Boy with

that story

>> kind of.

>> Is it What's the movie? What's the name

is Jungle Book? Jungle Book. And what's

the Tarzan? Is that Tarzan?

>> Well, Tarzan's in Tarzan.

I forget the name of the kid in jungle.

>> Yeah. No, that's the my anyways.

Anyways,

>> but part of the reason that story

matters is I made I have a contract with

mother nature which is I'm not consuming

her animals. I'm a vessel of as clear

energy as possible.

>> And it's not that I don't think there's

integrity ways to do that. I just for me

I believe that the systems as we've

created them largely today are deeply

out of integrity for the most part.

factory farming and slavery of

>> it versus someone out in the wilderness

in a fair high height hunt taking down a

bison or deer. There's just it's

completely we we we use that story to

justify factory farming and the two are

just completely different. And for me

the path was I have a spiritual

agreement that I will have this kind of

access if I honor my vessel.

I'm not a threat to any animal on earth.

So they could all I made friends with an

anemy fish on my last trip and it was

sitting on my finger and I brought it

right to my eye and it and people like

never seen that before because I'm not

going to ever consume it. There's

nothing in my being that is consuming

it. So the access that I get

>> maybe that's my story but it's working.

>> Yeah, it seems to be and I'm I'm I love

that story. I love it. And I you funny

enough like for someone that might not

accept the gift of some tri some of the

tri vitamin products you're actually

arguably your response to it is one of

the best testimonies ever because

most people that sell similar products

are actually getting them from retired

New Zealand dairy cows and we're not

we're getting the byproducts of bison

that are being raised for steak that are

grass-fed grass finished. They're not

being killed for us. But you know, this

gets convoluted. Yeah. And then or elk.

Yeah.

>> Elk and some of the elk are actually

wild and they are harvested like um with

a Yeah. basically a USDA inspector on

site.

>> Yeah.

>> In private land. But

>> I I feel I agree with you about the

essence. Yeah.

>> When I learned about the idea of

ancestral

supplements like that Native Americans

would have prized

>> Yeah.

>> I was like, "Well, they're that's that's

not New Zealand dairy cow organs." No,

that's is that's the opposite.

>> I mean, that is literally the opposite.

Even if they are chemically similar,

>> they are energetically entirely

different. You take two humans that are

physiologically the same and say you're

the same people. Let's get real.

>> No, you're completely different humans,

completely different essence. And people

don't tend to value that anymore. It's

like veneer is all that they value. It's

what's within.

And here's another question for you. In

the early 1900s, bison were almost

extinct.

>> Yeah.

>> And the bison population keeps growing.

>> Yeah.

>> And one of way ways I see that,

especially there's a niche bison

industry, and that's where they don't

feed them grain.

>> Yeah.

>> So that's where Tribe vitamins sources

their products from.

>> Yeah.

>> I kind I see it current in my current

path by putting more demand on that.

Yeah,

>> there are more potential bison. The

bison population will grow. Yeah.

>> The herd grows overall.

>> Yeah.

>> Especially by really pinpointing the

voting of the dollars to the 100%

grass-fed grass-finish bison. They're

like basically living like their

ancestors lived.

>> Yeah. Then then they are living in right

relation to the land. And right relation

is a indigenous concept that should be

on all of us concept. Are we in right

relation? And the the stories I've told

you are coming down to me choosing

whenever I have the choice as best as I

can being a flawed human of course to be

in right relation with myself with

others with the land with the water.

Well cattle and dairy cows are not ever

going to be in right relation with the

land here. Sorry. They're not even from

this continent.

>> But bison and elk were always in right

relation. In fact, the land depended

upon their hooves in the sand and the

their excrement and their whole

trampling and moving in order to

actually regenerate the prairies and all

that. And we've largely destroyed that.

And cattle don't, as much as people push

the regenerative farming stuff,

traditional cattle do not in any way

resemble

bison or elk in the way that they treat

the land, the way they work the land,

the way they eat the food. And so you're

getting a fraction of that regenerative

benefit that you do from these really

like native species that belong in these

lands. It's not even close.

>> I see that the same way.

>> Yeah.

>> Hence the path that I'm on with tribe

vitamins. And if you want the honey,

it's awesome. Southern Colorado honey.

>> Yeah, that looks great. I'll take that.

>> Um, all right. So, we 55 minutes. Do you

want to try some of these popcorn

questions? Whatever feels good. Yeah, I

want to do that. I mean, you're where's

the best place for people to follow you?

And you know, it's interesting like

right off the bat, you said you don't do

this for um raising money necessarily.

That's not the main reason. That's an

outcome.

>> Yeah.

>> Like right when I was telling I was with

my friend Caleb and his mom and I was

like I was showing my daughter who I was

like look at check out this guy some of

his on your Instagram like check out

some of the stuff on his Instagram. I

was showing some of the videos and

Caleb's mom right away was like oh so

you said he raises money. How do I how

do I donate?

>> Yeah. I was like, "Wow." You know, if I

was like trying to sell her something, I

don't know if she would have been

interested. So, yeah. Um, can you tell

the breaking normal audience about how

to contribute to the cause here? Wow.

>> So, a number of years ago, a friend of

mine, close friend said, hey,

>> we need to amplify your work. And I'm

like, okay, how do we do that? And he

goes, let's start a foundation. I'm

like, oh god, not another foundation.

>> He's like, no, we'll do it the way you

want to do it. And I'm like, well, I

want one that is collaborative, that's

additive, that's community based, that

builds on and amplifies the work of

others so that we get more and more of a

chorus creating the choir. It's like,

okay, we'll do that. And so years later,

now we have a foundation. It's about 30

people. It's called Only One. And I

founded that foundation. We have an

amazing team. I have a CEO and all the

folks that are doing all the things to

make it work. And we work in countries

across the world tackling some of the

biggest issues facing our oceans today

>> from climate to largecale marine

protected areas to protection of the

high seas to destructive fisheries to

ocean plastics all the big ones. And

we're working with governments and 150

NOS's around the world in partnership to

drive some of the most pivotal policy of

our time to safeguard the oceans. And

it's been incredibly successful. It's

been a hard slog, but we're we've really

hit our stride and now we're one of the

biggest players in ocean conservation.

And that started with just a few people

saying, "Hey, how do we amplify?"

>> And so it's called Only One. And you can

donate right there. You can go on the

page. You can see the stories, the work

we do. And anyone, any way you want to

contribute, you can sign petitions. You

can lobby for changes in America or

whatever country you live in. And you

can also donate money to help support

the work.

Wow. Thank you. And then what about

personally if someone wants to reach out

or

>> I think the easiest way to follow me is

at my Instagram.

>> I have a fa I have a I have web pages. I

don't have time to maintain them. I'm

just doing my thing. So Instagram, Sean

Hinrich s a w i n r i c hs if you put it

on the thing.

>> Great. Yeah, we'll put that in the show

notes. And you know another product here

that even has for every guest that I'm

actually out of this currently is I use

this as sunscreen or tallow but is that

not these I got I have a pet peeve with

people who sunscreens.

>> Yeah.

>> And the is this affecting the oceans or

reefs or not? And which because when I

look at like certain parts of Maui or

Australia like these spray things that I

see people at EBG Fine Park using in the

summer I think they're illegal there.

Are they not? Can you do can you do you

know about this or what?

>> There's a lot of forever type chemicals.

The things that make a lot of sunscreens

work is that they don't go away very

quickly. So, and they don't break down

in water and sweat very quickly. Well,

that stuff when you go in the water

dissolves into the water and settles on

the reefs and they wreak havoc on all of

the zuz zenthella and all the little

microorganisms that make up the reef

structures and they wind up creating

these dead zones. And more than that, a

lot of that stuff's just really bad for

you. People like

>> I'm like, what do you

>> shouldn't I wear more sunscreen? I'm

like, no, dose your sunlight and be

depending on your skin,

>> but don't block it all the time. We were

designed, we have a massive vitamin D

deficiency that's going around the world

now where so many people are not getting

enough actual vitamin D. And I don't

know, I feel like I'm doing pretty well

with it. And I'm on the ocean a lot and

I'm not layering myself with a bunch of

that gnarly stuff.

>> Yeah, I'm on that team of getting people

to use like food for their skin, the sun

dosing that seem and like there's

something to be said also that salt

water like if you like you just don't

want to go like on a concrete deck and

get the sun from 12 to 1 in the middle

of summer out of nowhere. There is a

dosing

>> and we are solar panels in my

>> I hike shirtless all every month of the

year and people are like what are you

trying to show off? I'm like no. Yeah,

I'm in the same we have the same

situation.

>> Yeah, I'm trying to actually condition

myself

>> and keep my skin and my body in sync

with the season and also my thermmore

regulation and all that. And people

like, isn't that uncomfortable? I'm

like, well, what important thing in your

life did you ever do that was in

comfort?

>> Well, here's a question. This is a fun

breaking number one. Sometimes I I I

agree. Like I would personally mostly be

naked if the conditions are correct

because that's how I feel like is

healthiest for my body.

>> That's what I'm born for.

>> But being in town and laws like a lot of

times I am shirtless and a lot of times

I start to I get a it gets a little

cultural. I just wonder if you've had

this issue like

>> Oh yeah.

>> Am I offending husbands? Like because

I'm shirtless at the playground.

>> Yeah.

>> Am I like because you know like couples

that take their kids

>> to go play at the the playground but

they're not playing. They're just

sitting there on their phone with their

shirts on and their heads down. But I'm

like at the playground the same reason

button up on their phone and they're

drinking their soda.

>> Yeah. And I'm like I am not here to

offend your husband.

>> Yeah.

>> Um but I am being shirtless at the

playground

>> as naked as I can legally be in the sun

having fun is extremely important to me

and it's not about like an ego thing.

>> But sometimes I wonder if it gets like

interpreted that way. You know, I just

don't care because if if you're shaming

me or feeling shame around a really

natural thing that when I travel to

indigenous cultures around the world,

they're all doing, including the women,

by the way,

>> like, and now you're shaming me. Well,

who needs to look at who? And I I would

rather stand for what I believe in

>> than be silenced by a majority that's I

feel is largely under out of dis out of

connection.

Raa. Um, did were you signaling me?

>> Yeah, it's too good a podcast to make

that one episode. I think you need to

build up for another episode next week.

>> Oh, next week. I don't know if I have it

next week in Boulder. I'm leaving

Tuesday.

>> Monday.

>> The

best episode.

>> I would say this is one of my favorite

episodes, too. I love it. Like, I don't

try to be judgmental in the moment, but

like listen, like I just knew from the

beginning some reason, even kind of

before I came in, I was like, "This is

like one of the best breaking podcast

episodes."

>> Really good.

really good. Yeah, it's it's it's what

we're talking about things that matter

to people's lives and I think they they

need to hear this.

>> It's good for them. Well, talking about

another man that I'm remembering the

future of getting on the breaking normal

podcast that seems to be aging really

well in the ocean that spends a lot of

time in Bali that I had just I ran into

him in insanas about 10 days ago and

probably been about 10 years since I've

seen him and I'm wearing a shirt right

now that was made in Bali from organic

cotton as long as far as I know. Rob

Machado, are you connecting with Rob

Machado?

>> I'm not. Man, that guy he's uh he he was

a guy they made a documentary about him

called Drifter.

>> Oh, I heard of that.

>> Yeah. And he grew up he's grown like was

a kid in in best one of the best surfers

in the world I think competing with

Kelly Slater at one point and then just

dropped off like kind of a like he

stopped. He was not surfing for that

purpose anymore.

>> And then it seems like that's when he

got all the attention.

>> Yeah.

>> And all I can tell from this man is like

every time I see him once a decade I'm

like he seems to keep looking healthier.

And I think when I it was the same thing

when I met him. I felt like I met the

ocean. I think he might spend like eight

hours a day in the ocean.

>> What a legend.

>> I I don't know that's true, but I hope

to get him on the show when I go back to

San Diego.

>> Sounds right.

>> I'm I'm like curious about all the

legends you're connected with on all

your journeys. Holy mackerel.

>> There's some good folks out there. Yeah,

>> a lot of people they go out to to

conquer and change something and then

they they realize that there was a deep

inner spiritual journey that was way

more important and that they come back

to the spiritual journey for themselves

and then they're like now they're called

to share that journey and share that

wisdom and share those teachings in a

way which is very different. It's an

invitation versus a shame or blame or

like look at me. And I love it when

people get to that point in their lives.

And I think the people who are able to

gracefully move from like that warrior

to that really sort of more embodied

wisdom elder,

they tend to age in reverse. If you look

at me 10 years ago, I looked a lot

older.

>> Like I was feeling the stress. I was

trying to, you know, and I was still

trying to. And then

and it's it's about it's really about

love. Being in love, not in love with

someone, but actually walking in love.

walking in devotion to that love.

>> Do you um identify with the religious

practice?

>> I don't have any specific religion. If

if um

the I my my temple is nature.

So closest thing would be animism

>> where I believe the sacred spirit. I

believe there is a higher power but I

believe it's everywhere. I believe God

is in all of us. I believe God is

everywhere and omniscious. God doesn't

make mistakes. God is everywhere in all.

And that I came from Christian

background and it's and I see so much

power in spirituality. Like I really do.

I don't like the lack of spirituality

that it's formed in certain communities

or the one there where it's very like

sort of like

sort of neo philosophies around like one

like alien coming down and whatever. Now

I think we were already given our

spirituality at birth. We were born into

it and that incredible we have

incredible figures throughout history

that have come forward and embodied

spiritual religious features that have

embodied those principles in such

profound ways to be teachers

really profound important teachers. And

that however you get it, if it's

teaching you loving kindness, if it's

teaching you to not do harm to others in

the service of yourself, if it's

teaching you fairness, and it's teaching

you to walk softly and kindly, whatever

those teachings come from, they're the

right teachings for you. And so, I'm not

anti-religion in any sense. Some people

get that way. I'm actually very deeply

spiritual. Choose your path that opens

your spirituality so that you realize

you're not alone on this walk because

you're not.

>> Do you believe in mermaids?

>> I have a best friend that's a mermaid.

Hannah Mermaid.

>> Wait, what do I know? Hannah Mermaid.

Who is that?

>> Hannah Mermaid is she lives in Los

Angeles. She's an incredible human

underwater performer

model.

>> Maybe I've just seen her on social media

or

>> You would have seen her on TV shows and

social media everywhere. Yeah. You would

have seen her if you were in the the

ocean space in any way.

>> So, mermaids though.

>> She's a mermaid. Yeah.

>> Um because my daughter asked me if

mermaids are real.

>> I've never seen one in the ocean that

isn't also a human.

>> Mhm.

>> But I wouldn't be surprised.

>> Do you understand where the the idea

comes from that?

>> Yeah. The original stories, as far as we