You seem pretty comfortable with risk.

>> Yeah.

>> Your debate with Ronda Santis. It was on

Fox News with Sean Hannity moderating. I

went back and watched that the other

day.

>> That is wrong. That's being a liberal

bully. That's being a bully. They had

Down syndrome and you wanted to

discriminate against them.

>> 27 million.

>> They were discriminating against because

they were discriminating against the

athletes. They wanted to marginalize the

athletes and you wanted the athletes

marginalized.

>> God help you.

>> God help us [laughter] all. Um, and I've

met a lot of Democrats who don't who

they're more worried about things going

wrong in their communication than

something going right.

>> Ezra, I'm a I'm a fail forward fast guy.

Uh, you miss 100% of the shots you don't

take. I got a 960 on my SAT. I wasn't

one of those straight A students at

Harvard. I can't read. You've never seen

me read a speech. I can't read a speech.

I have severe dyslexia. had a learning

disability that has defined me and who I

am, my struggles, my insecurities, my

anxieties, but also my willingness to

try new things and learn from my

mistakes.

>> Got a lot of facts you've been spitting

me where how do you learn?

>> It's just I'm I I absorb a lot. I can I

observe I absorb. It's just harder. I

have to do hundreds and hundreds of reps

>> for one, you know, some folks, you know,

do one or two reps, but in that process,

you overcompensate and you then develop

all of these other skills that have been

gifts. It allows you to read a room. It

allows you to pivot. Allows you to be a

little bit more flexible. Yes, dare I

say even more authentic. Um, and so

that's who I am. I'm just I can't be

someone I'm not. I'm not good at being

someone I'm not. It's I am not

comfortable faking it. And there's

there's so many things in politics I'm

not good at. The one good thing though

is I think politics is radically

changing. I I think it's rewarding a

little bit more authenticity. It's I

think Trump is sort of broken through

this morass. It's, you know, uh, we're

all getting roughed up a little bit here

and, uh, we've all made mistakes. We

haven't talked about my legendary

mistakes. And you got to own up to them.

And it's who you are. It shapes you as

long as you learn from them. Don't

repeat them. And so, I'm just constantly

trying new things. I don't have all the

answers. I seek them. But again, with a

willingness to fall flat on my face, and

I've tried to be a I try to govern in

that space. And so, I'll take the hits.

We tend to be months or years ahead of

others on a lot of issues and that's

risky and you get a lot, you know, you

get a lot of arrows in your back, but

you also pave the way for others to be

smarter and learn from that and and and

you know, tack in a in a perhaps more

electorally successful space. So, I'm

happy to be that guy. I don't need to be

president. There's not about that.

There's no I didn't wake up with some

strategic plan. The idea that I'm even

sitting here and people talk about this

20, it's that's beyond me. I I I thought

I'd went last through a recall. You talk

about humility. Seeing your name on a

recall ballot, having your kids get one

of my kids had to be homeschooled

because it was so humiliating for her.

Can't go outside. You can't walk the

streets without seeing signs. And

getting through that and getting the

other side and dealing I mean this been

this has been a hell of a seven years as

governor of California. I mean the most

blessed and cursed state from historic

wildfires and droughts and floods and

you know unrest, social unrest. I'm one

of the few governors left in the co era.

There's only a handful of us that could

talk about all those scars and the

mistakes that were made and the lessons

learned and the humility that comes with

that. And so I'm on the other side and I

think people have if you've noticed

anything about me is you feel that a

little bit but I'm just I'm like I'm

smashmouth about some of this stuff. I

think Trump is the is one of the most

destructive presidents and human beings

in my lifetime. I think this republic is

at real risk, this country being

unrecognizable.

And I have no patience for people that

want to indulge it. I can't stand the

corny capitalism. I can't stand uh all

these supplicants that are sitting there

bending a knee uh to this president. I

can't stand the universities have done

that, the law firms that have done that,

uh the individual corporate leaders that

have done that, other governors, maybe

Democrats and Republicans that have been

complicit at this moment. This guy is

reckless. He's a wreckless country.

We'll not have a fair and free election

if we don't continue to fight. I'm just

I that's what matters to me. Seriously,

I'm the future exgovernor and who the

hell knows what happens the rest of my

life except one thing I know that

matters in the rest of my life. I have

to look at my kids in the goddamn eye. I

mean that seriously. That's not like a

politician thing to look them in the eye

and say that I you know not in not a

peril of being judged, not to have lived

in the moment. So that's that's what

animates me. But it's not some grand

plan. So paradox, bring it on. Um,

contradictions, bring it on.

Contradictions, but that I think I can

explain perhaps [clears throat]

evolutions. We didn't get into

transports. That's an issue no one wants

to hear about because 80% of the people

listening disagree with my position on

this. But I but it comes from my heart,

not just my head. It wasn't a political

evolution. It was

>> the position being that

>> I I don't think it's I I want to see

trans kids. I have a trans godson. I

have no there's no governor that signed

more protrans legislation than I have

and no one has been a stronger advocate

for the LGBTQ community. But you have to

accommodate the reality of those whose

rights are being taken away as we

advance the rights of the trans

community in terms of the fairness of

athletic competition. And I just think

that's not a bigoted position. And it's

an example of some of the things I've

been saying about being judgmental,

dismissing people, throwing that person

out of the party. I mean, you want to

talk cancel culture. I've lived it on

that issue alone despite a record of 40

30 years. And people are willing to say

I'm done. Friendships I lost on that

position. And that position, by the way,

came to me two years prior where I had

to accom try to accommodate for a trans

athlete and another athlete that were in

the state finals at track and figure

field and they both dropped out because

we couldn't figure out a way to make it

fair and it was so unfair to both their

families. Broke my heart and I tried for

two years to figure out how do we do

this? And so I was asked is it fair? I'm

like I don't know. I don't know how to

make it fair but these people just want

to survive. Where's our grace and

dignity about this community? at the

same time. So, uh these are this is

life. It's not linear circulinear. It's

not just politics. And I think um

[clears throat] I I just want to bring a

little life back to my politics. I got a

year left. I got an expiration sell by

date. I'm on a milk carton. Um and uh

and to the extent I want to hold the

line and push back against Trump, I'll

take no backseat to anybody else. Um,

and to the extent one you throw to throw

me into the mix with these 12 other

remarkable leaders that all friends. I'm

going to see them all tomorrow at the

DGA. Um, half of them governors, the

other half great senators and and

legislative leaders in Congress. Um, uh,

[clears throat] what a humble and

extraordinary thing. That's something

you pinch yourself back to that 960 SAT

kid that couldn't read in some back.

>> I was very careful not to ask you about

2028, so I'm not letting you go there

yet. Um but but as we sort of wrap a

little bit, I do want to talk about a

different tension paradox.

>> Getting ahead of it. I know. I know. I

know. Um, you're not going to say

anything interesting if I ask you about

2028.