Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

All right. Nice to meet you, sir.

Stimulated mind. A future proof for your

brain. Is that possible? Future proof.

Why can't I say that? I already I

already have dementia. Future proof your

brain from dementia and stay sharp at

any age.

um what first of all what prompted you

to write this?

So I've spent a long time working in a

whole range of different spheres related

to the brain. um how to treat newborn

brain injury, how to treat and maybe

even prevent certain traumatic brain

injuries and concussions, looking at

what affects long-term cognitive decline

and dementia, as well as working with

elite uh professional athletes,

particularly Formula 1 drivers, trying

to help them, you know, stay on top of

their game for as long as possible.

And I saw across all those different

areas, there are these core things that

the brain seems to thrive on that are

required either for development or

maintenance of cognitive function. And

these are things that people can apply

to themselves on a day-to-day basis,

improve their focus um and well-being

now and then long-term that translates

to a lower risk of dementia. So is

dementia and is it is a gen is it a

genetic thing or is it a function of

atrophy? Is it a combination of those

things?

>> It's a combination of those things.

Certainly there's a genetic component.

So maybe I will zoom out to start with

and just think about like what is

dementia? Dementia is the clinical

diagnosis of losing so much cognitive

function that you're not able to take

care of yourself on a day-to-day basis.

There are several different types of

dementia. The most common is Alzheimer's

disease. That's something like uh 60 to

80% of cases of dementia. The next most

common is vascular dementia, something

like 10 to 20%. And then there are

others like frontto temporal dementia,

louisi body dementia, dementia you get

with Parkinson's disease. But those

first two, something like 70 to 90% of

dementias,

they are directly tied to lifestyle in

the environment. And right now, it's

estimated that somewhere between 45 and

maybe even 70 or more percent of

dementias are preventable and most of

those fall into those two categories.

There is a genetic component. So, uh

Alzheimer's disease has two broad types.

There's early onset Alzheimer's disease

that's caused by a single mutation in a

single gene, something like the amaloid

precursor protein gene or one of the

precinent genes. Those people get

Alzheimer's in their 30s to 50s. It's a

very uh predictable and quite rapid

decline sometimes, but that's maybe 1%

of Alzheimer's. The vast majority like

when we think about Alzheimer's, we

think about an age related dementia and

this is much more related to the

environment. So there is a genetic

component. You might have heard of ApoE

4.

>> Yeah.

>> So you can have three different flavors

of ApoE lipoprotein E 2, three, and

four. You get two copies.

>> Which is the one that makes you more um

more likely to get CTE. Is that two?

>> No. No. So that's that's that's four as

four as well. Yeah. So four um

essentially has an effect of amplifying

certain inflammatory effects um in the

brain. That's probably why it makes CTE

worse, makes it more likely for you to

get CTE because if you're if you're

getting repetitive impacts, repetitive

injuries,

>> then it sort of exacerbates or makes

that inflammatory response worse. Um,

but when you think about that in terms

of Alzheimer's, if you have one copy of

of APOE4, your incre your risk of

Alzheimer's is increased by sort of two

to six times. If you have two copies,

it's six to 20 times depending on how

you look at it. Um, but all the data

suggests that APOE4 is a risk

multiplier, right? So, it's not that if

you have a copy of Apple4, you're

definitely going to get um dementia.

It's that in the setting particularly of

the modern environment, risks of

dementia or risk factors for dementia

are amplified like excessive alcohol

intake, uh physical inactivity, low

quality diet. Um, so that also means

that if you have um if you if you then

address those risk factors, you have

greater benefit, right? Because you're

offsetting some of that additional risk.

So, however you look at dementia from a

genetic standpoint, and it can also be

family history, right? If you have a

family history of dementia, you have an

increased risk of dementia. But a lot of

what comes with family history is shared

environment and shared lifestyle, right?

You eat and sleep and move like your

parents did. And so if they had a

lifestyle that might increase their risk

of dementia, you get that as well. So

even if you do have an increased genetic

risk, you can offset a large part of

that through lifestyle and other

environmental factors.

>> Okay. So for some people there's an

increased genetic risk. But do some

people who do not have this increased

genetic risk, do they still have a

possibility of getting dementia just

from atrophy or just from sedentary

lifestyle, no stimulation whatsoever?

>> Yes. So the the kind of the way we would

say it is that not everybody who has ao

E4 gets Alzheimer's and most people who

have Alzheimer's do not have ApoE4. So

absolutely.

>> Okay. So is it just like everything else

like your muscles atrophy, your bones

weaken when you don't put load on them?

Is that what it is?

>> Yeah. So that's like the core thesis of

my book, right? It's called the

stimulated mind. Um,

>> for that reason I think that in the and

and the title is slightly provocative

because in the modern world we are

>> hyper stimulated.

>> Overstimulated.

>> That's nonsense.

>> Exactly. So we're over stimulated and

underst stimulated at the same time.

>> Right. We're getting a lot of input but

we're not doing any calculations. We're

not formulating new ideas. We're not

being creative. We're not problem

solving. We're just being inundated with

nonsense.

>> Exactly. So the the function of any

tissue in the body right you mentioned

the muscles the bones the liver the

immune system their function is uh

dependent on the stimulus you apply to

them right

>> and so the brain is exactly the same and

if you want functions and networks in

the brain to fun to perform well you

need to challenge them in order to

enhance capacity in them

>> do you think you need to keep your liver

working healthy by drinking every now

and then

>> so um the it it's the example of yes if

you drink a lot of alcohol your liver

gets better at metabolizing alcohol. So,

it kind of it proves the point, but that

doesn't necessarily mean that that the

alcohol is is there to keep your liver

healthy.

>> Probably not.

>> Didn't they used to do that with people

that had uh if they had lung problems,

they would give them cigarettes?

>> Yeah.

>> Like people with asthma.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And that didn't turn out so

great.

>> The the like the theory was okay, but

>> I think they should have just been

breathing heavy. That would have been a

better application of that, right?

because it's just like you don't want to

tor your lungs aren't a filter to like

torture you.

>> Yeah.

>> Um so when you started studying this, do

you have someone close to you that has

Alzheimer's or is it just a a field of

study that you were interested in?

>> Yeah, there was two different things.

One,

um I I focused initially on the brain

early in life and then you know elite

level cognitive performance in athletes.

And you kind of see that these things

sort of tie together like what happens

early in life, what happens during life

affects what happens later in life.

>> But I also had my grandfather died of

dementia. He he was an alcoholic um and

he had a combination of alcoholic um you

know alcohol-induced brain atrophy plus

uh vascular dementia.

Um, I really wonder about people today

and this is one of the reasons why I was

so interested in this because what do we

what we were just talking about before

that people are being oversaturated with

nonsense but not stimulated in any way

that challenges your mind. I mean, this

is a constant state today. And then on

top of that, you've got a lot of people

that are using

>> AI throughout their day to solve all

their problems where they don't think at

all.

>> Yeah. And there's been some studies on

that that show that it's a decrease in

cognitive function. Like when they ask

them to actually use their brain, the

brain works less well than it did before

they start. So you're not getting

educated by chat GPT. No.

>> Or any of these. What you're doing is

you're letting it think for you.

>> Absolutely. So this one what maybe one

of the studies you're thinking of was a

study they did at MIT and they had

students write essays and they could

either just write it using whatever they

had in their head already or using

Google or using an LLM. And what they

showed was that as you increase the

amount of like outside support you got,

you know, Google and then I think it was

chat GPT, then there was less activity

in the brain networks associated with

actually doing the task and students

remembered less well afterwards.

>> So I mean this isn't surprising, not at

all.

>> You're not using your brain, therefore

it it doesn't engage in the task. But

what's interesting is that they they

found a version. So like some of the

students who had previously written the

written written an essay just for

themselves then they asked them to go

back and use chat GPT on top and what

they found was that the final output was

better. So the way that we can use these

tools

rather than just asking it to do all the

stuff for us, which is what most people

are doing and I think will cause skills

and maybe even parts of the brain to

atrophy because they're not being used

is we use them as orthotics. Like they

can expand our capacities, right? You

try writing it all first and then you

say, "Hey, what did I miss? What am I

not thinking about?" Right?

>> And you can kind of build on it from

there

>> and that might perhaps actually

stimulate your mind to think why didn't

I think of that like next time I'm

writing a paragraph I'll consider these

options.

>> Yeah. Exactly. So you actually have to

like fully engage your brain in that

process but then they might you might

the end result might be better.

>> Well it's just such uncharted territory

for us right all this the especially

social media.

>> I mean completely uncharted territory

that people are staring at their hand

for eight hours a day. I mean, that's

really what you're doing. You're staring

at your hand and you're hoping

>> uh usually unsuccessfully to get

something that really excites you and

something that's really unique and and

changes your perspective on things. I

mean, I think maybe when I was using

social media every day, maybe once a day

I would get something that I was really

interested in that I would save. I'd go,

"Oh, that's actually interesting." And I

would think, "Okay, that'd be a good

subject to bring up on the podcast."

>> But the rest of the time it was just

horseshit. Well, part of the algorithm

and this, you know, I'm not an expert in

training algorithms to do this, but part

of the the the goal of the algorithm is

that you don't get everything that is

perfect that immediately captures your

attention up front, right?

>> Because you want it to be random.

And there's uh like method in the

randomness that keeps you scrolling,

right? Because eventually you you'll get

those small bumps that then that then

keep that keep keep you going. But

what's particularly interesting about

social media is it leverages the fact

that we are social beings. So we

prioritize information that is called uh

the acronym is prime prestigious

in-group moral and emotional. And this

is even greater in social contexts,

right? Because we are trying to learn

about our social environment so that we

can survive our group and be fitter. And

so social media makes us think that we

will get that information whilst at the

same time offering us the exact opposite

which is essentially isolation. U but it

leverages that desire of the human brain

to find this social information and this

social connection whilst not giving us

any of that

>> also without it getting any feedback

from another human being while you're

communicating ideas. So you could say

the most horrible [ __ ] to people in a

comment or a text message and you don't

think about it because it's like there's

not a person there. Yeah. Not right in

front of you.

>> Yeah. And

>> it's designed for like it's like an

antihuman device. Very weird.

>> But I mean if if your goal is to capture

attention, they're doing a great job of

it.

>> Well, not just that. They're acquiring

enormous wealth and also enormous

influence over the just all sorts of

things, politics,

economics.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, the some of the richest

corporations in the world, they they

gather a thing that we never thought of

was valuable, which is data.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, when we when people first

started using these things, when people

first started using the internet, nobody

really thought that data was going to be

one of the biggest commodities in the

world. Yeah. But now if they know what

captures your attention and what you'll

spend money on and like that's a it's a

perfect way to to get as much out of you

as possible.

>> Um so the concept is futureproofing your

brain.

>> Um like what are the things that you

think people should be doing to try to

futureproof their other than avoiding

social media and avoiding a lot of the

stuff that we're talking about here. So

I think right every every tool has a

possible use. So like for instance

social media if if you have crafted a

social media that allows you to maintain

connections that you wouldn't have

otherwise like the original uh version

of Facebook as it existed 25 years ago

was just like posting pictures and you

could like chat with some family

members. Right. Right. So if you use

social media like that, and there are

studies that show that if you're using

online tools, including social media,

and it increases communication and

connection beyond what you would have

had otherwise, that can be a net

benefit. If it's all you use and it's

replacing in-person human connection,

then it's then it's a net negative. So

there can be ways that it could be

beneficial. And you know, if your

Instagram feed is just like cute dogs

running around in the snow, which is

what most of mine is right now, right?

That can be a nice five minute break in

between co like cognitively demanding

tasks, right? That's that's that's

that's fine.

>> Um but when you think about future

proofing your brain, this this idea that

there is some unknowable future, right?

We don't know what the future's going to

look like. But if we want to exist in

that future, we're going to need um good

processing speed, good decision- making

skills, good working memory, good um

emotional and social and social skills,

right? And so in order to maintain

those, we need to challenge and

stimulate them. So

the I think the most important thing

most people can do is think about new

challenging and often creative skills.

And there's a lot of um evidence for

creative arts, music. What what they do

is they improve the function of networks

in the brain that are um at risk during

the processes of aging. uh particularly

because they're important for attention

and social connection. And so if we

really invest time in doing these things

that we suck at and get better but get

get better at them, we maintain these

broad cognitive skills that we're going

to need in the future regardless of of

what happens. And some of that is also

personal. So I like the goal is to build

as much cognitive capacity as possible.

Right? Right. I have this idea of

headroom, which is the difference

between what you what you need on a

day-to-day basis versus what you're

truly capable of.

>> It's it's the difference between like on

a day-to-day basis, your legs need to be

strong enough to like get you up off the

toilet, right? But your maximum capacity

is like what's your max back squat.

>> The the difference between those is your

headroom. And then that gives you

capacity to perform when you're injured

or sick or you need to like lift your

car off your buddy because it got

flipped in a car accident. Like all

those things like when you need to draw

on greater resources you want those

resources to be there because we are

going to be stressed, sleepd deprived,

sick and we still want our brains to

function. So investing in like really

challenging uh tasks and skills builds

that capacity so that we have access to

it when we need it. what what is the

function and like what what is the

effect on the brain when you learn a new

skill like sucking at something which I

always tell people is one of the best

things you can do%

>> a lot of people don't enjoy it because

their ego they don't like being

frustrated that they're terrible at

something but there's something about

not being good at something and

dedicating yourself to it and and seeing

market improvement that stimulates all

sorts of areas of your mind which I find

really interesting

>> so Most people don't realize that the

process of learning which in itself is

like the core process of neuroplasticity

right the the brain making new

connections and cementing new

connections that whole process is driven

by failure essentially and making

mistakes because your brain is a

prediction machine. It's constantly

predicting what's going to happen next

based on you know the world around you

and what you're trying to do. And so

imagine that you're trying to um do some

kind of new move in jiu-jitsu or

something and you have no idea how to do

it. You're you're going to try it and

there's going to be this big gap between

your expectation and reality. That's

going to be frustrating, right? That's

the feeling of failure. But that's what

diverts resources in the brain to say,

"Hey, we need to close the gap between

what we hoped would happen and what

actually happened."

>> And that's what drives neuroplasticity.

And this is also then what drives the

cementing and function of these networks

in the brain associated with that. So

the idea that you you start sucking at

something and you get better at it over

time, that is exactly the thing that the

brain needs in order to improve um and

maintain its function. Think you know

what's going to happen during the big

game? Call it with DraftKings

Predictions, a new app where you can

predict outcomes on football's biggest

game. Make real money predictions on the

big game and put your money where your

knowledge is. Pick a topic, make your

prediction. What will the total score

be? Will the underdog cover? Which team

will be lifting the trophy at the end?

Then see, will your big game smarts pay

off? DraftKings Prediction is new,

simple to use with big game trading

available in California, Texas, Florida,

and more. Download now. New DraftKings

Predictions customers get up to a $75

first trade bonus with promo code Rogan.

Don't just feel it, predict it. With

DraftKings Predictions, the crown is

yours. DraftKings Predictions is a CFTC

registered introducing broker. Event

contract trading involves substantial

risk of loss. One per new customer,

optin required. Non-withdrawable

predictions dollars expire in one year.

Ends February 8th, 2026. Market

availability varies. Eligibility

restrictions apply. See terms at dkg.co/

co/predictionspromo.

>> How many of those things should you take

on at once, though?

>> This is my issue. I I have a problem. I

I wish I could have four lives, but I

could run simultaneously. I would do

four I'd have four different

occupations. So, I try to smash as many

things into a day as possible. But

there's many times where I think, boy, I

think I'm doing too many different

things that I'm trying to get good at.

And maybe it would be better if I just

concentrated on one. So there's a few

different ways to look at this. I think

that a broad base and a broad range of

different skills is probably something

that we should all hope to have

>> like talent stacking.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And if you think

about um like one of my favorite books

is range by David Epstein, which which

talks about the broad range of skills

that people who then really success

really succeed in academia or sports

have, right? They didn't um specialize

really early. they had like a broad base

of talents that they can then draw upon

as they as they specialize later in

life.

>> And I think that's something that we can

all aspire to.

>> But equally, um, what's probably more

common is that we try something and we

do it for a little while and then we

just kind of like give up on it and we

try something else. And yeah, there's

there's like a little bit of benefit to

that, but when you look at some of the

studies that um really examine the

effect of learning some of these

creative skills and they've done it with

tango dancers and uh painters and video

gamers, when you when you when you

compare an expert to an amateur

um and where you're seeing the benefits

of expertise in terms of the function of

some of these networks in the brain, it

really is the development of some level

of expertise is probably required to the

maximum benefit. Obviously, the learning

curve is steepest at the at the

beginning, right? Right when you're

learn beginning to learn something,

that's when you'll learn the fastest.

But there there is also some benefit to

expertise. So, some of that like just to

say that pick one or two things that

you're actually excited to continue

getting better at for a long period of

time. And so, then maybe you do have to

like ch like try a bunch of different

things until you find the thing that

like really like gets you going. But

across all those different skills, they

have similar core effects on the brain.

So you don't have to do one or both. You

can just like pick the one that you

enjoy the most.

>> So it's just about the struggle of

trying to get better at something

essentially.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And um my wife is learning a new

language right now and uh she's she's

been so excited about it and it's like

it's really interesting because she

starts talking around the house in

French and uh and it's one of those

things where you like I was I'm watching

her do it. wasn't doing it and then

she's been doing it over the last couple

months and I'm seeing this like

excitement in this like new project and

we were talking about it about how that

is one of the things that's very

difficult to do but it's it's more

complex than learning because it's

learning and interacting. It's not just

learning. You're learning but you have

to you it requires like this back and

forth with another person. you have to

understand sentence structure. You got

to it's this like com and especially

French is so different than English.

There's there's so much weird [ __ ]

involved in it. But you could see like I

could see in her that like this is very

stimulating to her mind.

>> Yeah.

>> And it made me go a maybe I should learn

a language but I'm like [ __ ] where do

you have the time to learn a language?

>> But then I thought about like when I was

on social media all the time I would

look down at my phone some days and it

would say screen use today six hours.

I'm like [ __ ] six hours.

>> That's where your time is,

>> right? If you spent 6 hours just

learning Spanish, how you'd be fluent.

I'd be able to go to Takaria and order

in Spanish, you know?

>> Yeah.

>> It's like we spend so much time doing

nonsense

>> that

anything that you can do that requires

your brain to be in that uncomfortable

state of um what is the oh what is this?

Oh, it's this uh is that this uh got it.

You know that that dance.

>> Mhm. that firing of the synapses and and

forcing your brain to figure this this

puzzle out.

So many people don't have that. And I

see it in people that get stagnant where

they're doing the same thing every day.

Their job is fairly mundane and kind of

boring. And maybe they like it, but

there's nothing stimulating about it.

They're talking to the same boring ass

people. They don't exercise. They go

home, they watch TV, and then they shut

off and they do it all again. And then

you talk to them like 5 10 years later,

and it's almost like they've they're

slipping. Yeah. Like you see it. You can

see it in people that have mundane

existences. Like their stimulation is so

low that their ability to be stimulated

is low. I think that

that thing you describe

it is so baked into our society that

we've

started to believe that it's normal,

>> right?

>> So when you look at the trajectory of

cognitive function over the o over like

your entire life, imagine like a graph

where on the one side you have cognitive

function and it could be something basic

like processing speed. How quickly do

you does your brain process information?

Along the bottom is age, right?

it tends to peak sometime around our

sort of mid20s to early 30s. Um it's

usually the peak on average tends to be

higher and later the more time we spend

in educ education. So the more time we

spend essentially as professional

learners the more we can build that kind

of final capacity. After that it's just

sort of like an average decrease

downwards. And uh a colleague of of mine

Josh and I he's a neurologist. We wrote

a paper a couple a couple of years ago

where we theorized that the reason why

we see that decline in at the population

level in cognitive function from about

that age is because we go to work, we do

the same thing again and again and

again. Um and then everything else in

our life gets in the way. Um, and we

never spend that same time investing in

building our cognitive capacities the

way we did when we were kids and when we

were in school. And so the decline is

partly because we just stop doing that.

So the part you know one of the theories

of aging is that it's just a

continuation of development like process

of development and most of the processes

of development in the brain are uh

refining connections based on the

environment and the stimulus the brain

receives. So if you start removing

stimuli because you're no longer

engaging in these like cognitively

challenging things, the brain's going to

start removing connections. Hey, I don't

need that, right? I'm not I'm not using

this part of my brain. And as a result

um you start to see decline. And so

there are studies that show if you have

co if you have a very stimulating job,

it's very complex, problem solving

skills, uh lots of social interactions,

you have a slower rate of cognitive

decline as an adult and a and a lower

risk of dementia. You see um in

individuals who uh continue to engage in

reading uh reading, writing, lectures,

dancing, you know, a whole bunch of

hobbies, again you see a slowed rate of

decline. So some of what we just expect

to happen with age is because of the way

we we we stop engaging with the world

and we stop challenging ourselves.

>> Well, it completely makes sense, right?

Like if you think about physical

activity, it it goes along the same kind

of path. You see, I have friends I'm 58,

which is crazy to say. It sounds so old.

Um but I have friends that are 58 that

are basically det skeletons with like

meat hanging around various parts of it.

But my physical ability is very similar

to what it was when I was in my 30s. The

only way that I could really test it is

like physical competition and I'm not

really interested in that. I don't want

to get hurt.

>> But my capacity for work is very

similar. Yeah.

>> And I know that because I force it, you

know, I make myself do it.

>> And I would imagine the same thing is

true with

>> with the mind. I mean, it has to be. I

think it's all together. It's a use it

or lose it.

>> And if your mind doesn't have a a need

to be constantly intrigued and

stimulated like you got think for

survival, right?

>> One of the things that speculated, maybe

I can ask you about this because this is

one of I I think about this a lot. Like

what is ADHD? And I

whether or not it's actually a problem,

I think it's a superpower because I'm

pretty sure I have it, you know, but yet

I can f I'm very functional. I can focus

on things and as long as I tire myself

out from activity, um I can relax and I

can concentrate on things and I'm I'm

very interested in certain things and I

can lock into them and concentrate. But

if if I was forced to be in a classroom

with a very boring teacher teaching a

subject I'm not that interested in and I

was a child, if I had the wrong parents,

luckily I didn't, I would be medicated.

Yeah. Right. But I think that that is

this ability to focus on certain things

like hyperfocus was probably a function

of a persistent hunter.

>> Right? Because if you wanted to catch an

animal, you couldn't be a person that

gives up quick. You had to be a person

that you you keep looking for tracks.

You keep trying to find sign. You're

trying to figure out a way like I've got

keep pushing. One more hour. We got 20

minutes of daylight left. I've got to

figure this out. Right? You you that

thing had to be in you in order to be a

successful hunter.

>> So, um I'm sure that that's that's part

of it. the the current picture of ADHD I

think is is quite complicated. So, I

have family members with ADHD. When they

um then started on medication, they were

like, "Oh, actually, all of a sudden, my

brain works." Right? So,

>> right. But that medication is Adderall,

right? If I took Adderall, I would say

the same [ __ ] thing. I don't need a

stimulant. But if I took a stimulant

right now, I'd be like, "Dude, I'm so

much better."

>> So, no, but but you know what happens in

in certain individuals with ADHD? When

you give them stimulants, they calm

down. They they calm down, right? So, I

think there's a combination of multiple

things. Some is um yes, like these can

be very uh beneficial traits in in the

right settings, but you also have to

consider that we're layering on um a

modern environment that's like bright

light at night, a whole bunch of

caffeine and stimulants, right? And

yeah, of course, some of it is I think

um right the teacher is boring and

they're like they're just not engaged

because you know the majority of people

with ADHD can still focus right on

things that they're interested in

focusing in.

>> Yes.

>> Um or on

>> even without any kind of medication.

>> Yeah. So, but there's like a sliding

scale and I think there's a whole bunch

of different reasons why for one

individual they might experience

symptoms of ADHD or not. So, I think I

think it's complicated. Can I ask you

before you go any further than that, can

I ask you how much of that is dependent

upon physical activity? Like do we study

ADHD based on whether someone is

physically active or not?

>> Because look, if I'm not physically

active, I'm a mess. Like if for

something if something happened and for

some reason like uh I got a court order,

you're not allowed to exercise for 6

months or you go to jail. Like oh god,

>> I would probably be a [ __ ] complete

basket case, right? And maybe I would

have fullon ADHD. maybe I wouldn't be

able to concentrate on anything. My

brain would be bouncing all over the

place. Like how much of it is a

biological requirement that your body

has to release energy? So I think you

can I would expand it out even further

than that because

physical activity is a core requirement

of our biology and physiology, right? Um

there's a there's a nice quote by Inigo

Salmon Milan who's a you know well-known

exercise physiologist who says that um

physical activity is baked into our

evolutionary um development so much so

that now we've had to invent exercise in

order to like pre like to prevent what

happens when we don't move. So it's the

lack of movement is a disease-causing

pro-aging

like situation.

>> So to stop you there,

>> what if I mean or do they when they

treat kids with ADHD, do they take that

into consideration?

So,

as I I'm not an ADHD researcher, so I I

I genuinely don't know.

>> But I would think that before you would

give someone a stimulant, maybe track

and field, you know what I mean? Yeah.

>> And maybe play badminton, do something

where you've got to run around where you

like, oh boy, I can focus now.

>> I think I think that that's again I

would say that that's needed for all

kids regardless of any potential

diagnosis. So of course um we need I I

think that should be taken into

consideration whether that's going to be

enough um for every kid you know hard to

say but we know that all humans require

significant amounts of physical activity

just for their biology to work properly

right

>> so certainly if that's not being taken

into account or it's not available or

it's not encouraged there are a whole

host of conditions where that's going to

become a problem. Well, it just only

makes sense, right? And I mean, this has

been talked about forever. The Stoics

used to talk about this, quieting the

mind. I mean, samurai used to talk about

it like that physical activity. This is

what you know, one of the main benefits

the Chinese used for kung fu thousands

of years ago, quieting the mind. and the

propensity that we have in the society,

this direction of almost immediately

prescribing a medication for something

when it seems like well you're what

you're doing is you're dulling a

biological requirement. You're you're

dulling the impact of this biological

requirement that you're not meeting. Why

wouldn't we prescribe exercise first?

And then think about those things like

for instance like hormone replacement.

If you have a good doctor, an ethical

doctor that is working with someone and

they they find out you have low

testosterone, one of the first things

they do is adjust your diet.

>> They say, "Well, you have so much food

in your diet that causes inflammation.

You have a very high rate of complex

carbohydrates. You have a a lot of sugar

in your diet. You drink too much

alcohol. You smoke cigarettes. Let's

remove those things first and then let's

see what happens." And then you increase

your protein and you start drinking

water and you go, "Oh, look, your

hormone levels are going up naturally."

Well, because you're [ __ ] poisoning

yourself, right? So, wouldn't you I

mean, why don't they prescribe exercise

for kids other than the fact that you

can't make money off of it? Wouldn't it

be a good idea? Um, so I think that all

kids should absolutely get, you know,

several hours ideally of of movement and

physical activity of different kinds

every day. Um, part of the problem, it's

not that scientists or doctors don't

think that's that's important

right now. The systems that we have make

it very difficult for those things uh to

be to be put in place. Right? So making

sure that every kid has the time and the

resources to be able to exercise and

like the the right kind of people so

that they know what they're doing and

they're they're supervised. Um and you

know it's the same with uh so say with

testosterone replacement if if your

testosterone is low like most right the

the primary cause or one of the most

common cause of of low testosterone in

men is right that combination of

metabolic disease being sedentary poor

quality diet like we know that but

creating the systems that allow people

to change those things and then

supporting them to do that is really

hard. Nobody nobody has solved the

behavior change problem, right? If we

think about if we think about the modern

environment um and we think about what

that drives us to do and not do,

but we know we we have all this

information, right? We know how to

prevent these diseases. We know how to

reverse many of them. And a lot of it is

driven by lifestyle and the environment.

But supporting people to change those

behaviors and make sure they have the

resources and time to do it, that's

really hard. Like nobody solved that

problem yet.

>> Boy, that seems like a problem that's

easy to solve. It's just based on

personal responsibility.

>> No, but it's not.

>> But if you can tell someone, this is

your requirement for the day. I want you

to run one mile. I want you to do 100

push-ups and 100 sit-ups and write it

down.

>> But how are you? So first of all um

>> but you're saying some he's saying it

like it's impossible very difficult.

>> I'm not saying it's I'm not saying it's

impossible. I think that those of us for

whom this has become a part of our

personality and our and our lives like

like you and me of course it's like of

course you just do that like you just go

for the run. You do the 100 push-ups

>> right?

>> But for people who like have never had

anything like this and it's never been a

part of their environment. never been a

part of who they are.

Changing that actually requires a ton of

work um and coaching and it's actually

it's actually really difficult and when

I when I say

>> it's difficult but it's totally doable

physically. It's not like I'm asking you

to breathe underwater. Like people have

done it and you can draw inspiration

from like my friend Jelly Roll. You know

Jelly Roll the musician?

>> Jelly Roll was 500 lb and he's lost 300

lb

>> and he did it with no ompic, no GLP1s.

>> He just started walking and started

cutting sugar out of his diet and slowly

but not even slowly over the course of

just a couple of years he shrunk to like

a normalsized human. It's [ __ ]

amazing. But he drew inspiration from a

lot of other people. You know, one of

them is he's good friends with my good

friend Cam Haynes who's a ultramarathon

runner and endurance athlete. And so,

you know, he's taken him on runs and

worked out with him and helped him and

just watching YouTube videos and just

all he started doing was just walking,

you know, where he couldn't walk up

hills and he would just walk around his

block and walk up the hill when he

didn't want to do it and he did it. It's

like it's not it's you can do it. You

just have to start doing it. And I think

the starting doing it is the most

difficult. I don't think it's difficult

to do it once you gather momentum

because there's a there's a thing that

happens with people when they start

doing something, they get excited and

then they look forward to doing it

again. As long as you don't like you

don't take a guy who's 500 lb and say,

"Today we're going to do 100 push-ups,

100 sit-ups, we're going to do kettle

bells and then we're going to do laps

around the the block." You can't do it.

It's not possible. Yeah. But you could

just go for a walk and then tomorrow

we're going to go for a walk a little

bit further and then in two weeks we're

going to double that walk. And then in

three weeks, you know, we're gonna

incorporate some light body weight

squats. And along the way, we're going

to adjust your diet. And then write

these things down. Like this is it's not

impossible.

>> It's just they need motivation.

>> So I I I agree it's not impossible. Um,

but you know, I've worked with several

digital health companies who are working

in the behavior change space and people

don't need more information. Like they

know that they need to to walk more and

they know that they could eat better and

they know that they could sleep better,

>> right?

>> But the the process of trying to first

of all understand like how should I do

that? What should I do that when you

know when when should I do that? And

then right h like some people may

absolutely not have the time or the

environ maybe they live somewhere where

actually you know what they don't want

to be walking around outside right

that's that's relatively common or um

they don't have a kitchen right so then

how do you how do you cook food like how

do you navigate that that food

environment so I I agree I completely

agree with you all of this is doable

>> it's just that different people are

going any different levels of support to

do that initially, right? Gain that

momentum, understand

um how how that feels um how it changes

them.

>> And right now, the majority of people

don't have access to that that kind of

support. And I absolutely hope that that

changes, right? The food environment

changes so that it's much easier to

change the way that you eat and that the

built environment changes so that it's

it's much easier to go out and and have

a walk um and and and do a lot of that.

Um, so I think we just have to consider

that it's both, right? There's there's

an individual component, right? But

there's also like a societal component

where we have to make this as as easy

for people as possible and sort of like

build it into their lives such as they

are.

>> Okay. So let's consider the societal

aspect of it. Let's consider the like

how would you implement something like

let's let's imagine that

you get appointed to some committee

that's in charge of trying trying to

facilitate this growth and improvement

in people what would you do

so

I think you need um a few a few

different parts to it one uh great part

would be so say through, you know, if

you could dramatically improve quality

and access of like education at all

levels and make physical activity just

be a regular part of that that has been

slowly removed from many educational

curriculums around the world over over

time, right? So bring some of that back

and it just becomes part of day-to-day

life.

>> And then you would also teach people the

skills involved in some of these these

other things. So like teach teach people

how how to cook and and how to do that

within the bounds of what they have

access to their you know cultural

preferences, dietary preferences, you

know, financial, you know, financial

abilities, that kind of stuff,

>> right? That should be a part of a school

curriculum.

>> Yeah. Abs. Absolutely. Just like you

should teach kids about taxes and all

this all these other things. And so I

think if you start early on and you do

this with um sort of curiosity and and

skill building, then you release people

out into the you know that that that I

think that's that's the place to start

because when you get out into the real

world and you're working three jobs and

you live somewhere where you don't want

to go for a walk outside and like you

can barely get six hours of sleep every

night and you know you've got three kids

that you're trying to look after.

saying, "Oh, hey, you should do 100

push-ups every day." Like, that's just

not going to happen. Like, other things

are going to happen that that are more

important. Um, so, so I think there's

that part, maybe the the skill building

part. Then it's thinking about like how

people have opportunities to do those

things. Um and then I would think about

you know access to highquality

um you know health care, psychological

care like these things that like some

sometimes people need help that they

can't get access to or it's expensive or

whatever. Um so I think giving more of

that so that they get support when they

need it is definitely would definitely

help as well. I think one great way

would be to devise a website, make like

maybe like even a government website

where you uh put in like your body

weight, when was your last physical

activity, what this, that, the other

thing, all the what's your diet? And

then they implement a program and you

could follow online with a bunch of

other people that are doing the same

thing and post your results. Yeah. So,

you have a community aspect to it. you

have uh a a dedicated program that you

can follow. So you don't have to think

about, oh, I don't want to do that. I

don't want to do this. It'll just tell

you just do this. Just do this. Oh, you

weigh 400 lb. You're 39 years old. You

haven't worked out in 10 years. Okay.

Here's here's day one.

>> Yeah.

>> And follow along. Post your weight. Post

your what you're eating.

>> I mean, that I mean, and with AI,

>> I mean, that's one of the good things

about an LLM, right? With AI, you could

ask it to formulate adjustments. Yeah.

>> And you could say, "Okay, what nutrients

should I be consuming? What how much

protein do I actually need? How much how

many calories do I need? How many

calories are in this and that?" And, you

know, how what is uh how much protein do

I get from, you know, 20 ounces of

broccoli or whatever the [ __ ] it is. You

know what I mean?

>> Yeah. So, when you look at some of the

most successful

trials of behavior change, and most of

them are based around weight loss

studies, right? Uh that's that's a very

typical way to do it. Um when you see

when when you want somebody to change um

their behavior and feel feel good about

it. Um one of the sort of uh constructs

is self-determination theory. You've

probably heard of right humans need

three things. Autonomy, um competence

and relatedness. So autonomy is the like

I am in charge of my life and I'm in

charge of my decisions. So what are the

things that I want to work on today?

Right? I have some choice there. uh

competence, like how do I help somebody

feel like they know what they're doing?

Like a lot of the hurdles with um

exercise or diet is like I don't know

what I'm doing and like this guy says

that I need to do sprints and this guy

says I need to lift weights and this guy

says I need to do x amounts of zone 2

but like what does that even mean? Like

like do I even know what I'm supposed to

So how do you build competence in

people? And then relatedness that's the

point that that you were making, right?

you have a group like you support each

other uh maybe you do stuff you do stuff

together. So um one of the most

successful weight loss trials of all

time was called the broad study and one

of the things they did so they they lost

a lot of weight and they kept it off and

so most weight loss studies people re

regain it afterwards is they they met

several times a week they did like

potlucks group activities like they

helped each other.

>> Yeah. Community.

>> Yeah. Community. thing. The one downside

of that is that there were there were

there was there was an app, I can't

remember the name of it, that would that

tried to build that for exercise. So

like you'd have these buddies and they'd

be your accountability buddies. But what

happened was that when people started to

slip, they left the platform much faster

because they were like, I don't want my

buddies to know that I'm not doing what

they are supposed to be helping me do.

So you kind of have to like build in

multiple buffers and different ways to

help people depending on what it is that

motivates them or not.

I mean, we have public education, right?

We have universities. We have public

high schools and middle schools. Why

don't we have public gyms? Why don't I

mean, how much money would it cost to

have community gym set up where you

don't have to have money to join, where

it's paid for by your taxes? You're not

talking about something that's out

outside of, you know, like that

financially it wouldn't be feasible.

Yeah.

>> It's not that hard to do. So I think

that was the I don't know what the

financial model is now but that was the

the idea of like the YMCA's things

right. Yeah. So like it becomes a um a

community focus point like um my wife

grew up in North Carolina like she talks

about how they were down the YMCA all

the time like playing basketball and

>> they used to have a YMCA when I lived in

Boston that I used to go to. It was

really cheap. They had weights. They had

a track. They had all they had a

swimming pool. They had all sorts of

stuff. It was way cheaper than a regular

gym. And they had classes you could

take.

>> Yeah. And there was something very

similar close to where I um grew up uh

in the UK just like for a couple of

pounds you go do a some kind of martial

arts class or something like

>> they had that too. Does Austin even have

a YMCA?

>> Yeah, definitely.

>> Oh yeah, there's one there's like a big

one downtown. I've driven past it once.

Like big glass front like I I don't know

what it costs.

>> How much does it cost to get into the

YMCA in Austin?

>> Let's find that out.

>> I mean that should be paid for by taxes.

>> Yeah.

>> Why? I mean, if we pay for all this

other [ __ ] that we don't need, why don't

why don't you know

>> when when when a big hurdle is

accessibility and

>> one year new progress pack join today.

How much? Uh

$125 value for a year. Is that what it

says? How much does it cost?

>> Doesn't say how much it cost.

>> What does it cost? Join today. How much?

>> Also, the secret of most memberships for

gyms, they don't list their prices

online.

>> Yeah, but it's the YMCA. Click on join

now. Join today.

>> Telling you they want you to come in and

say hi so they can talk to you.

>> Oh, is that what it is?

>> Every That's how everyone works, but

it's probably cheaper than most.

>> Well, why don't you put it into uh

Perplexity or something like that. Say,

what is uh how much does it cost to join

a YMCA?

Here we go. Let's guess how much you

think it cost? 20 bucks a month?

>> 50?

>> Yeah, I think it it can't be much more

than a Planet Fitness, right? Or else

>> Planet Fitness is pretty cheap. But the

thing about Planet Fitness is they kind

of the a lot of these big gyms, not just

singling out Planet Fitness, they kind

of hope that you don't show up.

>> Oh yeah. Yeah. That's the Yeah.

>> You generally looking at $40 to $80 per

month depending on age and household

type. That's not too bad.

>> Yeah. But for for some people that's

that's that's a lot of money, right?

That's 40ucks a month.

>> Yeah. Like that's um a good chunk of

their food bill. So

>> I there there should be some sliding

scale where this becomes very very

heavily subsidized.

>> Yeah. Or free.

>> Yeah. Yeah, ideally. I mean, why

wouldn't it be free?

>> Yeah, I think it should be.

>> But then homeless people go in there and

shower.

>> There are.

>> Well, I mean, I'm okay with that, too.

Depends on who they are.

>> I mean, if they sh Okay, with some of

them, you know, [ __ ] crazy people

[ __ ] in the sub in the in the

shower. Uh, Blue Cross, Blue Shield,

blah blah blah blah blah. Many health

insurance plans offer gym membership uh

through reimbursements. Discounts or

programs like active fit or global fit.

benefits can include $20 to $400 annual

ann annual reimbursements.

>> Yeah. So, some people can use their

health insurance to get some of that fee

covered.

>> Okay. Well, that's nice. But the thing

is, again, it's just like Planet Fitness

or any of these places.

>> The the thing is like they want to

recruit you and then you go and you're

like, "Okay." And then you never go

again.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> But but we genuinely want people to go.

Like that's that's the whole idea. Well,

the thing is like there's one thing like

for someone and I've taken friends to

gyms before that don't work out and

they're like, "What do I do?" They have

no idea what to do. Classes. Classes is

what should be classes.

>> Learn a new skill, move, make a friend.

Like, so much amazing stuff happens in

that kind of setting.

>> Yeah. And and they should have multiple

different classes available

>> at the same time, right? There should be

a class for people that have done

nothing like, "Okay, these are

dumbbells. This is You pick up a light

one. I'm going to show you how to do a

shoulder press and then it should be

for, you know, more advanced people,

intermediate people, something

>> and a whole whole range of different

skills. Yoga, Zumba, Pilates, Tai Chi,

>> slightly different, not dumbbell

weights, but in Austin, they have a

bunch of uh public free gym equipment

and different parks,

>> playgrounds and parks. Yeah, that

stuff's great.

>> Well, in New York City, it has a whole

Look at these guys.

>> Look staring at each other talking [ __ ]

the I think one of the problems is that

um well first of all like a lot of

people might just like look at that and

be like

>> what do I do

>> what do I do with that and then the

second is that uh a lot of what we see

around fitness and movement is kind of

the extremes right they're idolized

professional athletes like this is what

the best of the best do and we often we

internalize this idea that that's what

we need to do and if we're not doing

that then we're not doing anything

>> right

>> whereas all the data suggests that

literally any type of movement above

what you're doing right now is

beneficial. Cardiovascular health, um,

cognitive health, dementia risk.

>> So, I think some of it is just like

letting people know and having people

understand that it doesn't take that

much to move the needle and then when

they start to do a little bit, right,

you you get get a bit of a bug, maybe

you enjoy it, you find a thing that you

enjoy, you do more of it. And so, that

that's part of it, too, like having

people understand that it doesn't take

that much to really start, you know,

having having an impact. Yeah. And it's

also for a lot of people, this is a a

society that really emphasizes quick

fixes on things

>> and it's not a quick thing. It's you

have to trust in a process. And so that

has to sort of be

that has to be educ people have to be

educated to that. It has to be taught to

you like this is a process and you're on

a process. You should be very excited

about being on this process. It it's

going to be weird because it's going to

take a long time for you to see any

results, but that long time like in that

in that time period, you will eventually

see results and then you'll be excited.

You'll feel better. You'll have more

energy. It'll help every aspect of your

life. You just got to do it. One of the

one of the things that I I like when I

talk about movement in particular or

exercise and say cognitive function is

that you will start to see benefits

relatively quickly. So if you go and do

a six-second max sprint a couple of

times, right? And there are studies that

show this, you will acutely like

immediately see an improvement in

cognitive function, better blood flow to

the brain. you've created arousal which

is really important for focus and

attention. um if you you know go out go

for a walk outside right

you will sleep better that night so

you'll feel better the next day and so

yes you're absolutely right that this is

a lifelong thing right you can't just do

it for a couple of months and then hope

that it's going to translate to benefits

for decades to come but you can see

immediate benefits if you start to do

some of this stuff and you can and you

can feel it very quickly so I think that

that's that's going to be important

because Not everybody is going to in is

going to feel in the position to invest

in their future selves, right? So if if

you start to see benefits straight away,

you're more likely to keep going with

it.

>> Okay. So that's for people we were just

I mean I'm glad we covered it, but we're

essentially talking about people that

don't know what to do.

>> For people who do know what to do, you

said you work with a lot of Formula 1

athletes and

>> what do you do for like what is

>> Formula 1 is fascinating to me.

>> I've been to the um the Kota racetrack.

We're actually putting up a studio.

We're going to have a studio at KOD.

We're going to have a second studio at

the racetrack. And the idea is to take

people around the racetrack. I think it

would like stimulate their mind and then

come in and do a podcast. Be a lot of

fun,

>> right? It' be like you'd be like racing.

Like your mind would be like, "Woo!"

>> Um,

>> that is an incredible sport where it's

fractions of a second, split-second

decisions. Your ability to react has to

be like incredibly fast. Like, have you

ever seen the thing where they drop

things? Lewis Hamilton is like better at

anybody than anybody at it. He's [ __ ]

intense.

>> Um,

>> what do you do with them? So, you

already have people that are primed,

right? They're the best in the world,

but they are constantly looking for an

additional edge. What are you doing for

them?

>> Yeah, so there's um a a few things

there. Um, my work with Formula 1

drivers happens mainly through a company

called Hintter Performance. uh was

founded by Aki Hint to

>> Hinsa H I N Tsa um named after Aki Hinsa

who was a Finnish orthopedic surgeon. He

worked with Harley Gabra Salassie with

Mika Hackinan. He was two-time Formula 1

world champion and then now sort of like

a big sports enterprise and I'm their

head head scientist for motorsport. So

that's all uh motorsport categories from

like carting and kids up to up to

Formula 1. We work with several Formula

1 drivers and we uh provide coaching and

medical services. Each driver or most of

the drivers have a coach, right? So like

you know when you watch Formula 1,

there's like somebody holding the

umbrella holding the helmet, right?

That's that's usually well that's often

one of our coaches. They're usually uh a

strength and conditioning specialist or

they might be a physio or a

nutritionist. Like they they have a ton

of, you know, really high level skills

and they're there every day, right? They

do the sleep, they do the training, like

they're traveling with them the whole

time. They sort of can manage as much of

their of their life as possible. And

when you're thinking about

that level of of skill,

the the stimulus part has has taken care

of itself, right? One of the reasons why

these guys are so good is because it's

all they've done every day for you two

plus decades, four decades if you're if

you're Lewis Hamilton or close to that.

So, and that's slowly building these

skills first in carting then in these

different Formula categories, Formula 3,

Formula 2, um up into up into Formula 1.

And so the kinds of things that we might

work on and so like I'm helping the

coaches, working with the drivers, we

have like a a huge team um you know a

doctor who's uh who works with a bunch

of Olympic athletes as well. And so it's

it's a combination of are there any

individual performance limiters? So we

might do some blood tests, look at

nutrient status and various other

things. Um you know make sure they're

they're really on top of that with their

with their diets. Um, but then

in that kind of world and like I'm sure

you experienced this yourself.

Everybody's got a thing for you to try

or a thing for you to do, right? Like

you're constantly being bombarded with

the latest greatest technology and like

this guy wants to sell you this thing.

So, a lot of what we do is like be

really careful about the things that get

added and maybe even like take stuff

away if we need to. Like, what are we

what are we trying to work on? What are

we trying to build? What does this one

driver need? Because they're all they're

all very different. They need a a

different, you know, they have different

uh diets. They have different training

programs. They have different um warm-up

uh strategies for when they get in the

car. Um, and so a lot of what we end up

doing is focusing on on the other side,

right? So if you stimulate your brain,

it adapts when you rest and recover

afterwards. So because they're

essentially jet-lagged nine months of

the year uh rather than a different

country every every week,

>> that's a factor, right? That's a huge

factor.

>> Huge factor. And like on top of like

every race weekend, they've got to go

meet sponsors. They've got to do media

days, right? They're constantly moving.

So, it's what can we do to maintain

their level of performance throughout

the season? And this is something that

the coaches do a ton of work in like how

can we what kind of exercise and and how

can we do targeted training to like

maintain performance throughout the

throughout the year. And then the other

part is how can we get as much recovery

as possible? Because if we want them to

adapt to all the work they're doing and

come back each weekend at the top of

their game or as close as possible, we

need to get them to rest and recover and

come back and do it again. So often

we're not focusing on the stimulus part.

We might be in driver training. We might

be thinking about how can we develop

cognitive skills and these kinds of

things. And these driver physical skills

in um in Formula 1 often it's how can we

get these guys to recover better? How

can we get these guys to sleep better?

Um, and then that that might be uh

technology, but it might also be, you

know, just like how can we nail the

basics again and again again, make sure

they're getting enough time in bed,

right? Especially when you're traveling

a bunch. That gets that gets really

difficult. So, we're often focused on on

the recovery side and how we track like

how do we collect those data? How do we

know when something's starting to slip

and get on top of it early? Um, that's

the kind of stuff we tend to focus on.

>> So, let's talk about the jet lag aspect.

What are the strategies for mitigating

jet jet lag? And like how do you when

like let's say if they fly in for a race

like if they're going from Europe to the

United States and they have to race, how

many days in advance do they arrive and

how do they shift

>> their circadian rhythm and eliminate jet

lag? What are the strategies?

>> Yeah. Um there's

the the the time for them like the the

number of days they come before the race

will will depend on how long it was

since the last race plus what other

things they've got going on. But they'll

it's often like two or three days,

right? They they'll try and get it get

come in the beginning of the week at

least like Monday, Tuesday if the race

is then going to be on Sunday.

And then as much as possible, you might

start to try and shift things earlier.

So shift your light exposure so that it

aligns more closely with your

destination a couple of days before you

travel. Uh shift your sleep if you can.

Shift um exercise and caffeine timing

again because those things um shift

circadian rhythm so that so you can kind

of get closer to to what what you're

going to do when you land. Um and so

those are those are the probably the

primary tools is um exercise, light,

caffeine. You can use um some of them

use melatonin. Um you can also change uh

when you eat. So like um food timing is

a zygab. It's a fancy word for like time

giver. Like helps to drive circadian

rhythm. So, um, often when you're when

you're flying, they'll give you a meal

that's happening like in the middle of

the night in the time that you're going

to land, right? So, often you might try

and avoid eating while flying and then

have your next meal in time with like a

normal meal timing when you land.

>> I've heard that one of the things to

help with jet lag is just eliminate

meals when you're flying, period. that

there's something about eating even if

it doesn't have anything to do with the

the time like say if you're flying from

Los Angeles to New York one way to

eliminate jet lag they say is just to

not eat on the flight so six-hour flight

don't eat at all

>> usually I think most of that is to do

with circadian circadian timing uh

because

>> you're usually flying at a time when you

wouldn't normally eat or like you're

often like they give you dinner at like

900 p.m. or it's even midnight, right?

So, if you see

>> But is that all it is? Because but ways

explained to me is it just there's

something about your body processing

food when you're flying that actually

exacerbates jet lag.

>> So, I can't think of a,

>> you know, other than the fact other than

the fact that I mean, you're obviously,

you know, sat still for long periods of

time, which might not normally happen at

that time of day as well. Um I think the

m the majority of it in term espec

certainly in terms of jet lag plans is

thinking about the timing of meals

relative to circadian rhythm because you

normally you know break your first fast

fast a certain time of day have dinner

at a certain time of day. So I think

most of it is related to circadian

timing.

>> Okay. Um what about rigorous exercise?

Cuz one of my strategies like say if I

have to fly to London or something like

that and I want to avoid jet lag I

immediately go to the gym. That's the

first thing I do. I put my stuff in the

hotel room. I go right down to the gym.

Yeah. No negotiation whatsoever. And I

get in at least an hour. Yeah. I have

to.

>> That's a That's a great way That's a

great way to um to to help to offset

some of the jet lag because you you

start to tell your body, oh, hey, like

even though it's

>> whatever midnight in Austin, right, this

is the time when I want to be awake. So,

it starts to advance the circadian

phase. So, exercise uh some people like

to do um cold exposure, right? It does a

similar thing, right? increases

adrenaline, increases heart rate,

increases arousal. Um, can do it with

light, can do it with caffeine, and so

like some combination of those things

can definitely help.

>> Um, okay. So, there's the sleep,

adjusting the sleep, there's the light

exposure, there's exercise and food. Is

there anything else like what what kind

of supplementation is effective to

mitigate that?

>> Yeah. So, um, they might use they might

use melatonin. Um, one of the one of the

issues that we have, it's not an issue.

It it it makes perfect sense is that um

the the supplements that we use with the

drivers have to be third party tested,

right? NSF for sport certified informs

inform sport certified. So some of the

things that we might like to try

>> is that because the drivers get tested

>> because the drivers get tested.

>> And what do they ban? What's banned?

>> Everything. It's the same as like all

the all the W drugs.

It's the same. They're under W

regulations. So

>> um are they allowed to use peptides?

Um it's it's it's a gray area in

general. I don't believe I don't believe

anybody does and we certainly don't rec

uh recommend it for for that reason

because we just don't know what's in

there.

>> Are they tested for peptides?

>> Um so they're not tested for peptides

>> then take them.

>> Uh well that's you know it depends on

whether there's actually a peptide that

has good high quality evidence in

humans.

>> Well there's also you should get them

from a real good compounding pharmacy.

make sure you're getting it from a

quality source, which is the real

problem with peptides today is that

since they're not regulated, there's a

lot of gray market. There's a lot of

real, you know, [ __ ] corporations

that are selling you stuff that's

nonsense and even things that are

tainted.

>> So, yeah. So, so, so the main thing that

you're you're worried about is

contamination. Like, what else have they

put in there, right, to make it to to to

get better?

>> Same thing as supplements.

>> Yeah. Same thing as supplements. But in

reality, like there aren't many peptides

where I'm like where I would say or

actually I couldn't think of any where

I'm like this will have a a definite

benefit based on high quality studies in

humans, right? Those studies just don't

exist. Um, and so until we get to that

point, plus the the sort of like the the

the gray area of the sort of legality of

it,

>> um, we we tend to focus on, you know,

the real I mean, it's the basics, but we

know that they work.

>> But there are peptides that have shown

to increase sleep and increase REM sleep

>> in humans like like humans.

>> Boy, I wish I could tell you because

they I they talked about it, but I never

tried it. Um, I know Tom Cigur is on it.

Um, see if you can find what it is,

Jamie. It's uh Boy, it's [ __ ] with my

head.

>> Is that what it is?

>> I'm asking.

>> No. Um,

>> Delta sleep inducing peptide,

>> but like I I want to see the randomized

control trial.

>> I have to I like I can't re I couldn't

recommend it unless I know that it's

third party tested, it's legal, and

there's a high quality trial in humans.

Like all those things have to align. the

high quality the problem with high

quality studies is they take time and

money and these aren't FDA approved so

you're not going to get those things but

that doesn't mean they don't work and

this is the problem is that like you

could try it

>> and then if you show benefit like

>> in that in that setting I can't try it

>> you can't

>> no

>> well you can't because of Formula 1

drivers and all stuff but like

>> so with the way drug free sport works

which is the governing body of the UFC

uh drug testing um this they they don't

allow anything unfortunately but there

are studies that show the BPC57 includes

increases tissue recovery and helps you

heal from

>> not in humans

>> true but there's look the same thing

with the COVID vaccine they weren't

tested in humans either before they

started trying them

>> um I there were some there was for the

the first wave of co 19 vaccines there

were some some pretty good quality

trials in humans

>> right but all it showed is that it

showed an antibbody it didn't show that

it

>> oh no the against hospitalizations and

death it in in the f in the f in the

first waves

>> that we could argue about that because

it's very sketchy. It's very sketchy

data that has been disproven.

>> I think that those I I think those first

waves were high quality. Um I don't

think we've seen

>> say that inre decreased uh

hospitalization and death. It was

stopping transmission and infection

which was just a lie. So that's what

they claimed

>> that it's all sketchy because it was

based on profit. The whole thing is

weird. It's a weird one. It's a weird

one to

>> I can't uh

>> Yeah, I can't talk about myself.

>> It's not a good example.

>> But with there's plenty of anecdotal

evidence uh especially with professional

athletes with BBC 157 and TB500

particularly for tissue injuries for

recovering quicker from tissue injuries.

So I know I know there's anecdote. I

know that people say it benefits them.

Um in the environments that I operate in

that's not enough. I understand you're

an actual doctor. You're Dr. Tommy Wood,

he's legit. I'm just a dork. I'm allowed

to just say, "Try it. [ __ ] it." Um, but

so with drug-free sport, um, like with

the UFC, they're they use Thorn

supplements. That's what the UFC

recommends, which are very good, third

party tested, but so you have to find

whether it's pure encapsulations or some

legitimate, wellproven, established

company that provides you with third

party tested supplements. What

supplements have been shown like for I

would let's stick with Formula 1 drivers

reaction time is critical. Um your your

ability to function at a a very high

cognitive state, right? You're you're

thinking constantly. You're always

calculating and movements.

>> What supplements are these guys taking

that benefit them? So there

when you think about complex skill

performance and like there's a there's

like a whole chapter on this in the

book. The the most important driver is

arousal, right? How aroused is your

physiology? And are you set up with the

right level of sympathetic activation,

nor adrenaline, adrenaline, cortisol to

kind of get the the the best level of

performance