What are the most popular questions

people come to you with as a sleep

doctor?

>> There's three biggies. Number one is,

"What do I do if I fall asleep, okay,

and I wake up in the middle of the night

and I can't fall back asleep?"

>> And you can help people with that.

>> Absolutely. The second question is,

"What pillow should I buy?" And I'm

going to walk you through which pillows

make sense for which people. And then

another one that people ask me all the

time is, "What's the best time to have

sex?"

>> That's a strange thing for somebody of

your profession to be

>> about. Well, let me explain why. So,

I've been an actively practicing sleep

specialist for 26 years. I take care of

people's sleep problems like apnea,

insomnia, and I'm really interested in

the things that you might be doing right

now that are messing up your sleep that

are easy to fix. So, for example, most

people don't know that they have a

genetic sleep code inside them called

their chronoype, which decides when your

brain releases things like melatonin,

cortisol, adrenaline, and dopamine. And

so I can show you based on your

chronotype when it's bedtime, but also

the perfect time of day to do almost any

activity, including the perfect time to

have coffee and alcohol. Crazy. There's

even data to show that your ability to

understand complicated concepts improves

when you're more in line with your

chronoype. Now, there are three known

chronotypes, but what I'm famous for is

discovering a fourth one, which I think

might be you. So, we're going to talk a

lot about that. We're also going to talk

about dreams because dreams can tell you

things about yourself that you may not

want to know. And then there's how to

fix jet lag, whether you should sleep

with a TV on, the truth about melatonin

supplementation, and my favorite way to

get magnesium.

>> Before we get into all of that, shall we

go and look at the best possible sleep

position?

>> Yeah, let's check it out.

>> Guys, I've got a quick favor to ask you.

We're approaching a significant

subscriber milestone on this show and

roughly 69% of you that listen and love

this show haven't yet subscribed for

whatever reason. If there was ever a

time for you to do us a favor, if we've

ever done anything for you, given you

value in any way, it is simply hitting

that subscribe button. And it means so

much to myself, but also to my team cuz

when we hit these milestones, we go away

as a team and celebrate. And it's the

thing, the simple, free, easy thing you

can do to help make this show a little

bit better every single week. So that's

a favor I would ask you. And um if you

do hit the subscribe button, I won't let

you down. And we'll continue to find

small ways to make this whole production

better. Thank you so much for being part

of this journey. Means the world. And uh

yeah, let's do this.

>> Dr. Bruce, yes. What is it you do? Why

does it matter so much now? And what

perspective do you take on what you do

that is atypical versus other people I

might have spoken to about this subject?

>> I'm a sleep doctor. Um I take care of

people's sleep problems like apnea,

narcolepsy, insomnia, things like that.

I've dedicated a good portion of my

career not just to understanding how to

treat those disorders which are sleep

disorders, but what I also I call

disordered sleep. I'm really interested

in behavioral habits. What's going on?

what are the things that you might be

doing right now that are kind of messing

up your sleep that are easy to fix um

and be able to maybe change how things

are going forward? You know, I I didn't

start out thinking I was going to become

a sleep doctor if I'm going to be honest

with you. Like that that was not on the

on the path. Um I was actually going in

a completely different direction. And

one of the things I really discovered

was when you change someone's sleep,

dude, you change their life. Like it is

fundamental to who they are. And it's

important for me to be a sleep educator

in a way, shape, and form that's

practical so that people can actually

get something from what I'm talking

about and apply it right then and there.

>> And there's probably a couple of million

people that have clicked onto this

conversation to listen.

>> Yeah.

>> Who is this conversation for?

>> I think it's for anybody out there who's

either curious about sleep or wants to

try to improve their sleep or maybe

suspicious that they could have a

problem with their sleep. I think any

one of those three types of people would

find tremendous value here. And what are

we going to be able to do for those

people today specifically?

>> So, I'm going to give people um several

different like plans, if you will, uh

maybe even a five-step plan of things

that they can absolutely learn how to

do. They're also going to learn about a

genetic sleep code that they have inside

them called their chronoype. A lot of

people don't even know that they have a

chronoype or maybe they've heard of the

of the idea, but they haven't ever heard

of the term. We're going to learn a lot

about that. We're also going to talk

about dreams a little bit. Um I'm

excited to have the opportunity to do

that. I've spent the last year and a

half learning more about how to use

dreams in my clinical work as a

psychologist, which is very interesting

stuff. So, I'm excited to share some of

that. So, I think people are going to

learn a whole bunch.

>> And dreams matter.

>> Oh, yeah. They absolutely matter. I'm I

call dreams emotional metabolism, right?

And so, when you're dreaming, what is

you what is the function? What is the

purpose? What are you doing? You're

actually working through your emotional

states that you had during the daytime.

Um this is why we have nightmares,

right? And so in a nightmare, it's a

scary scene and all a sudden it gets so

emotional, you wake up. That is

officially called a nightmare. That

awakening, but you stop processing. And

when you go back to sleep, you go back

to the dream and you get to that scary

point, you wake up again and you get

caught in this loop, right? And so

dreams matter because they can be

incredibly disruptive. Also, they can

tell you things about yourself that you

may not want to know or may not have in

the front of your mind at all times.

Right? Sometimes people have very

interesting dreams like dreams of being

chased or dreams of their teeth falling

out or all these different things and

they can mean a whole host of different

things. But I want to be super clear.

There's no guide book that says, "Hey,

you know, if you're if you're dreaming

of that you're in water, you hate your

mother." Like, it doesn't really work

that way. Dreams mean something to the

dreamer. And so the goal is to

understand the context within that. So

who is the dreamer? What is the dream?

And then how do those two work together?

And what is the experience that you're

drawing from academically but also

professionally? Give me a view of how

many people you've worked with and

the range of things people come to you

with.

>> Yeah. So I've been an actively

practicing sleep specialist for 26

years. So I work in offices with medical

doctors cuz I'm not a medical doctor. I

have a PhD and I work with them on their

patients. lot of insomnia patients but

also the apneas, the restless legs, the

narcolepsies of the world because I have

kind of a unique distinction in that I'm

one of 168 people in the world who took

the medical boards without going to

medical school and passed. So I can work

within that framework and really

understand a lot of what's going on. I

don't prescribe medication, but if I'm

honest with you, most people don't need

sleep medication as far as I'm

concerned. I can get them to sleep

usually without any medication at all.

>> And you're a psychologist as well?

>> I am. I'm a clinical psychologist. And

how does those two worlds make 1 plus 1

equal three?

>> Sure. So when you talk about sleep,

psychology is all over the place. I

would argue 75% of the reason people

don't sleep is anxiety or fear. That

really falls well within the range of

psychology for sure. Um, and it's

different kinds of fears. It's fears

that you know about that are right in

your face, like something that's going

on in your daytime, but it could be

other fears. It could be fears of your

relationship. It could be financial

fears. It could be a whole host of

different things. So, I think there's a

lot of psychology that gets to be played

in all of this kind of thing.

>> I got two more questions before we

really get into the details and

specifics and start really helping the

audience with whatever they're dealing

with.

>> The first is we have lots of props here.

>> Yes.

>> Give me a a topline view of the types of

things you're going to show me and why

you've brought all of these wonderful

props.

>> Absolutely. So, I get asked a lot of

questions as you might imagine and um

one of the big questions that I get

asked is what bed and pillow should I

buy? So, sitting next to you is a large

stack of pillows, all different types,

actually. And I want to be able to show

some of your viewers how you look at

pillows and which pillows make sense for

which people. Believe it or not, there's

like a fitting process. We're going to

go through that. This device right here

is a sleep test, believe it or not. So,

it used to be we'd have to send you to

the hospital. Yeah, you can unwind it.

Uh, you have to send you to the

hospital. We'd put 27 electrodes all

over your body, respiratory belts across

your chest. We'd have cameras zoomed in

on you. And then, by the way, you're

supposed to be able to go to sleep,

right? And we're supposed to be able to

monitor you. Now, historically, we were

able to do that pretty well. But once

COVID hit, nobody wanted to sleep in the

same bed that somebody else had been

sleeping in the day before. So, now we

have what are called HSTS or home sleep

tests.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. We'll talk about how to use it and

and what it can tell you.

>> My last question before we get into the

details is what are the most popular

questions that people come to you with

as a sleep doctor?

>> Yeah. So, I'd say there's probably three

biggies, right? Number one is, "Hey, Dr.

Bruce, I fall asleep just fine, but I

wake up somewhere between 1 and 3:00 in

the morning, and it either takes me 20

minutes or 3 hours to fall back asleep.

What the heck is going on there?"

>> And you can help people with that.

>> Absolutely. I'm going to give everybody

a exactly what I do in clinic. Like, I'm

going to explain to everybody exactly

what I say to my patients and how to go

about getting through that particular

problem because it's it's so flagrant.

Everybody needs to know how to how to

work with that. The second question

would be um what bed should I buy or

what pillow should I buy? I think we're

going to address that over here. Um and

then another one that people ask me all

the time is, you know,

is there some kind of timing? Is there

some like I feel like my body is off.

They say this all the time. They're

like, if I just lived in a different

time zone, I feel like everything would

work out well. So the very basics of

sleep.

>> Uhhuh.

>> What do I need to know about what sleep

is, the role it solves for us to even

understand the context of the things

we're going to talk about today?

>> Yep. There's only a few things that are

truly important to understand about

sleep. One is how does sleep work in the

brain. It turns out that there's two

separate systems in the brain. One is

called your sleep drive. The other is

called your sleep rhythm. And they both

work uh in an interesting way. They're

both a little bit like hunger, right? So

sleep drive is like hunger because right

I'm hungry. I'm hungry. I'm hungry. I

eat something. that hunger begins to

dissipate. Same holds true with sleep.

The longer you stay awake, the more the

more sleepy that you get. When you look

at it from a biology standpoint, it's

kind of interesting. So, when a cell

eats a piece of glucose, something comes

out the back end. One of those things is

called a denisonin. It works its way

through your system and goes to a very

specific receptor area, as a denisonin

accumulates, you get sleepier and

sleepier and sleepier. Now, why am I

going into so much detail? Turns out

when you look at a denisonin and you

look at caffeine, they're off by one

molecule. So, here's a little tip or

trick early in the pod for everyone. I

call it the nappa latte. So, what you do

is you take a cup of drip black coffee,

just throw in a couple of ice cubes,

right? Merely to cool it down, drink it

as fast as you can, and immediately take

a 25minute nap. The adenosin that's

built up in your brain will burn through

while you're napping. Caffeine, since

it's so close in molecular structure,

can fit into that receptor site. It

blocks any new adenosin. You're good for

four hours, guaranteed. I use it with

every CEO that I work with. So, let's

say you only got three hours of sleep

the other night and you've got a big

presentation to do or an awards ceremony

or something like that. You can do a

nappa latte for about 25 minutes or so

and you will feel much better. That's

sleep drive.

>> Let me just

>> Sure.

>> I want to make sure I really understand

this. Can you explain this to me again

as if I'm a 16-year-old? by having a

coffee and then taking a nap would make

me feel energetic because one would

think that having a coffee and taking a

nap are like

>> would be almost impossible, right? So,

number one, the caffeine doesn't kick in

before the end of the nap. So, a lot of

people think when I drink coffee, boom,

it just kind of spins up and all a

sudden I'm able to, you know, I get a

lot of energy from it. That's really not

actually how caffeine works. It has to

go down, has to get absorbed, has to be

digested. And so while all that's going

on, which takes approximately 25 to 30

minutes, you're actually taking a nap to

lower the amount of adenosin that has

built up in your brain. Let's say it's 2

o'clock in the afternoon and you only

slept for 4 hours and you are dragging,

right? All that adenosine that's built

up when you take that 25minute nap,

you'll burn through a lot of it and then

caffeine fits in and blocks any

additional adenosin from coming in. So

that way you're actually adding caffeine

to the situation and boom, your energy

goes straight. Okay. So adenosine is

makes me tired when it's docked in my

brain.

>> Exactly.

>> So I have 4 hours sleep which means

there's lots of adenosine and sleep get

clears the adenosine.

>> Correct. And then caffeine comes in

because it fits so perfectly into that

receptor site

>> and off you go. That's sleep drive.

Sleep rhythm has to do with your

circadian rhythm. Right. And so lots of

lots of information about that. But

basically your circadian rhythm is also

a lot like hunger. Right? You ever

notice you're hungry around breakfast

time, around lunchtime, around dinner

time, right? That's your circadian

rhythm for hunger. For sleep, most

people, at least here in North America,

have a tendency to fall asleep somewhere

between 10:30 and 11:00, 11:30 at night.

So, that's kind of the circadian rhythm

there. So, when your circadian rhythm is

high and your drive is high, you sleep.

But if either one of them is off, that's

when you have a sleep disorder or

disordered sleep.

>> My circadian rhythm is high.

>> When your circadian rhythm is on point,

high is probably not the right word. On

point. So meaning you are abiding by

your circadian rhythm. Now another

question you might say to me is well how

do I know what my circadian rhythm is?

And we're going to talk a lot about

chronotypes cuz that's what your

circadian rhythm is.

>> Okay. So let's do chronotypes then.

You've got some cards in front of you.

>> I do. I kind of like these cards. So

when we talk about chronotypes, a lot of

people may have heard of the idea but

not actually heard the term chronoype

before. So if anybody out there has ever

been called an early bird or a night

owl, those are chronoypes. So, we've got

early birds. These are people who, by

the way, this is genetic. You don't you

don't actually get to choose this.

There's a special area on your genome

called the PER3 area. And when you have

something called a single nucleotide

polymorphism or a snip. If it's flipped

one way, you're an early bird. If it's

flipped another way, you're a night owl.

If it's not flipped, you're in the

middle. Okay? So, so far, I haven't told

anybody anything new. Like, this is this

is all stuff that we've already learned.

The new part is this irregularity that

seems to happen for people during for

their sleep schedule. Specifically, an

irregularity in their melatonin and

cortisol production. So, all of this is

predicated on when does your body make

melatonin. So, if you're an early bird,

your body makes melatonin earlier in the

night starting at around 8:00 in the

evening. Makes you want to go to bed

around 9:30. You have a question.

>> So, melatonin is a hormone

>> it is

>> that

>> you produce inside of your body that

actually helps you sleep. It guides, it

tells your body when it's bedtime, which

is a little bit different than the

adenosine, which makes you feel sleepy.

>> I guess people listening now would be

asking themselves, why does it matter to

know my chronotype? Like, as it relates

to my productivity, the way I live my

life, my relationships, whatever matters

to me, why does it matter?

>> Because I can show you based on your

chronoype the perfect time of day to do

almost any activity. So if you f if you

know when your body is doing certain

things, when it has melatonin or when it

has cortisol or adrenaline or all these

other things, if you know the schedule,

you can actually just change your

activity to when your body is naturally

producing the hormone and then you do

the hormone better.

>> Okay,

>> so let's talk about the easy one, which

is sex, right? So a lot of people want

to know, "Hey, Michael, what's the best

time to have sex?" By the way, I think

that might be the third question that I

get asked most um often other than uh

the insomnia one and the mattress one I

think is what's the best time for sex

might be the the other question that I

get asked more than anything.

>> Must be tricky if you the time you want

to have sex and the time your partner

wants to have sex are off.

>> Well, think about it like this. What if

your partner's an early bird and you're

a night owl?

>> Yeah, I think that's me.

>> Don't worry, we're we're going to be

able to fix you. So, first of all,

there's a couple of different answers to

this question. So, number one is you

want to have a time. So, first of all,

most people are intimate between 10:30

and 11:30 at night. That's just a survey

that we did. So, it makes kind of a lot

of sense. But here's what's interesting

is your hormone profile doesn't look too

good at 11:30 at night for having sex.

In order to have successful sex, you

want to have estrogen, testosterone,

progesterone, adrenaline, and cortisol

all to be high and melatonin to be low.

What do you think your hormone profile

looks like at 10:30 at night?

>> It's literally the opposite, right?

Melatonin is high and all those other

things are low. That's hint number one

as to when would probably be the best

time to have sex. Hint number two, if

you happen to be having sex with

somebody who was born biologically male,

what do most men wake up with in the

morning? An erection. If that's not

mother nature telling you when to use

that thing, I don't know what is. Right?

So, when you start to look at it, and we

actually did the surveys, we discovered

that people actually have greater

connection and greater performance in

their sex when they have sex in the

morning time. Now, do you have to brush

your teeth and throw in a little

mouthwash first? Yes, of course you do.

Like, let's be fair to your partner

here. But you end up learning quite a

bit. Again, your body is telling you

this is actually the perfect time to do

something like this. Did you know

there's like a perfect time to have

coffee?

>> I didn't.

>> Yeah, there's absolutely a perfect time

based on your chronoype, too. One of the

first things that I ask people all the

time, I'll ask you, um, is the first

liquid that crosses over your lips in

the morning caffeinated?

>> Yes. So, let's talk about why that's

probably not the best idea. So, most

people don't know, sorry, most people

don't know, but uh sleep in and of

itself is a dehydrative event. You lose

almost a full liter of water just from

the humidity in your breath by by

breathing all night long. Caffeine is a

diuretic, which mean it makes you have

to go pee. So, when you're already lost

a liter, now you add a couple of cups of

caffeine, which makes you have to pee,

you're going to turn into a raisin

before this whole thing is through.

Okay? So, we need to get some water

inside of you. And so, one of the big

recommendations that I give all of my

patients is don't have caffeine for the

first 90 minutes you're awake. Now,

you're going to sit here and say, "9

minutes? That's a Michael? That's a long

time not to have any caffeine." Like,

how am I going to do that? Like, I've

got my morning routine. I can smell the

coffee in the morning. It smells so

good. Everything's going. How's how's

this going to work? Let me explain the

biology. In order to exit a state of

unconsciousness, you need two hormones,

and you need a lot of them. You need

adrenaline and cortisol and they both

wake you up. When you have a brain

that's full of adrenaline and cortisol

and you add caffeine to it, it's like

it's like adding weak tea to somebody

who's taking cocaine. Okay? It's not a

very powerful stimulant compared to the

hormones that are in your brain that are

a powerful stimulant. But if you just

wait 90 minutes, cortisol and adrenaline

naturally drop. If you have your

caffeine, then it actually boosts the

cortisol and gives you a bigger bang for

your buck. M

>> so you hydrate before you caffeinate and

about the amount somewhere between 15

and 20 ounces of water if you can get

that down in the first hour and a half

that you're awake.

>> What's that in English terms?

>> Oh, I don't know what that we'll have to

look it up.

>> Is it one cup? Is it two cups?

>> Oh, I would say it's probably 3 to four

cups of water.

>> Okay. Well, that's a lot.

>> Well, don't forget you've lost a lot of

water while you're sleeping and you

might have lost it the previous day

because let's say you worked out or

things like that.

>> So, let's get into these chronotypes

then.

>> Yeah. So, let's start off with the lion.

So, lions are my early birds. Um, you

know you've got a lion in your midst

when you get an email at 6:00 a.m.,

right? That's somebody who's been up for

a while and who's got their brain kind

of cooking. Um, lions like to make a

list and go from step one to step two to

step three every single day. They get a

lot of confidence and they get a lot of

pleasure following uh this list. But, if

I'm honest with you, being a lion isn't

all it's cracked up to be because dinner

and a movie is out for a line. They've

been up since like 4:30, 5 o'clock in

the morning, right? They don't want to

go see a concert late at night. They

want to go to bed at like 8:30, nine

o'clock. So, when you're looking at

lions or what I early birds, what I call

lions, they've got some very interesting

characteristics. They make up between 10

and 15% of the population from a

biological characteristic standpoint,

their melatonin stops early and their

cortisol starts early. So, their

melatonin stops at about 4:30, 5:00 in

the morning, and that's when cortisol

starts. And that's the reason why they

wake up so early.

>> What sort of window do the lions wake up

in?

>> So, it's interesting because I've got

some lions who are kind of extreme, like

they're getting up at 4:30 in the

morning, which is not really probably

the best idea. But generally speaking,

my lions get up right around 5 5:15 up

until about 6:00 6:30, but they are

definitely my early risers. They have a

small breakfast. They don't like to eat

a lot of food early in the in the

morning time because a lot of these

people like to go work out fairly

quickly after they've uh after they've

woken up. um which is very different

than some of my other chronotypes. My

night owls don't like to work out in the

morning. They don't like to do anything

in the morning. So, my lions like to

work out early in the morning. A light

breakfast. And also, their best work

window is usually somewhere between like

9:30 and 11:30. Like, that's when all

the good stuff gets done. Like when they

have if they have to get details or if

they have to do brainstorming or things

like that, that's really kind of where a

lot of the magic happens for them. By

about two o'clock in the afternoon,

there's not a lot of stuff left inside

the lion to be able to do do a lot of

good things. That's when I have lions do

more physical activities that don't

require a lot of cognition. So maybe you

go for an afternoon walk or maybe you

have uh you know you're you're meeting

with your folks that may not be really

detail oriented but more processoriented

in the afternoon

>> admin and stuff.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I actually had one uh

fellow chronotype his entire company and

then move meetings based on who was

going to be in the meeting. Like it like

he had all the early birds and he had

meeting at 8:00 in the morning and then

all the night owls he had a meeting at

4:00 in the afternoon. He said it was

amazing. He said it worked out really

really well.

>> Wow. What's the next one?

>> So the next one is the bear. So bears

are representative of people that are in

between early birds and night owls,

right? So bears are the best. Honestly,

dude, I wish I was a bear because the

whole schedule of life works on a bear

schedule. 9 to5 is perfect for a bear.

And they make up between 50 and 55% of

the population. So, literally one out of

two people is a bear.

>> And when's their peak work time?

>> So, their peak work time has a tendency

to be sort of in the noon to 2:00 range.

Um, they're a little bit later than what

you would see the line. Some of them, I

think, can actually be better at 11.

It's kind of interesting. And we've had

almost 3 million people take the quiz

and we've discovered that inside of

bears, there appear to be early bears

and later bears. So there are people who

fall into that category but like to get

up a little bit early. So for them their

productivity window is probably 10:30,

11. But for the later bears, it's more

like 11:30, 12, and then it's about a

2hour window after that.

>> For the people listening, um on screen

at the moment is a grid showing you the

different chronotypes, the weight times,

the peak work window, and the sort of

afternoon slump time. What's the next

chronotype?

>> So, the next chronotype is me, the wolf.

>> I think I'm a wolf.

>> You might be a wolf.

>> I love lions. I get it. I get a wolf.

>> Well, you might be. Hey, look, join me.

It'd be great. So, wolves represent the

night owls, right? And so, wolves are my

artists, my actors, my creatives. If you

know a creative, when do they get their

biggest idea? It's not 2 o'clock in the

afternoon, it's 2 o'clock in the

morning. Wolves are my highest

risktakers. I know that that probably

you fall into that category as well.

Wolves are the folks that show up at the

party at 11 o'clock at night, but they

stay till 2 o'clock in the morning and

they help you clean up and they hate

mornings more than anything.

>> So, should we talk about dolphins?

>> What's the next one? Yeah,

>> dolphins. This is the category that you

fell into. So, let's talk about who are

the dolphins and and what does this

actually represent? So, dolphins are

usually highly intelligent. They're

usually people who are fast-talking,

well- read. These are people who are a

lot like a lion in terms of they like to

get up. They crave longer bouts of

sleep, but unfortunately their body just

doesn't have a long sleep drive and so

they get really frustrated a lot of

times. Um, also I think they have just a

teeny bit of anxiety behind them. So a

lot of them, for example, the details

really matter to a dolphin, right?

Versus other people where details might

not matter nearly as much. I think a lot

of my dolphins have got just a little

bit of obsessivecompulsive disorder. So

they're kind of focused in on the on the

different things. Like if I ask a

dolphin to do a project, generally

speaking, they're never finished with it

until I say, "Can you just give me the

project back now because they're always

working on a little detail here or

working on a detail there." Um, but

dolphins are my favorite. They're the

people that I actually wrote the book

for. Um, they're the ones that I I enjoy

working with the most. Um, because

they're actually the easiest to work

with because we can once I explain to

them how their hormones can be up and

down and sideways, it can it starts to

make a lot more sense for them. And for

anyone trying to figure out which one of

these they are, where do they go to do

the test and how long does it take?

>> Yeah, you can go to my website. It's

called chronoquiz.com.

Uh, and uh, it takes about 3 4 minutes.

It's not very long at all. It's going to

ask you a bunch of questions about your

sleep, about timing, things like that.

>> Okay, I'll put that in the description.

So, after you finish listening, you can

all go take it and let me know your

thoughts in the comments section as

well. So, once you figure out what your

chronosype is, come back to the episode

and and let me know below,

>> please.

>> And does my sleep change with age,

Michael? It does. Absolutely.

>> So, do my do my chronotypes change with

age?

>> They do, actually. So, believe it or

not, you've gone through all the

chronotypes already. When you're an itty

bitty baby, you're a lion. You go to bed

really early. You wake up really early,

right? Then you're a toddler, right? And

in in like grammar school, you're a

bear. You're going to bed around 7:30.

You're waking up around 7:30. Then

adolescence hits, right? What do you

want to do? Stay up until midnight and

sleep until 2, right? You become a wolf.

Then at about 23 24 your chronotype has

a tendency to set into one of those

three or four things and then you stay

there for an extended period of time

like 25 30 years until you hit my age.

So I'm going to be 58 soon and right

when you hit in the mid-50s what we see

is melatonin production can either slow

down or get earlier. So as an example if

your parents are still alive and you

said hey mom dad I want to go for

dinner. What time would they want to go

for dinner?

>> Early.

>> Right? four o'clock in the afternoon,

4:30 in the afternoon, you're like,

"What is wrong with you, mom? What's

going on?" That's her chronoype is going

backwards and your sleep changes over

the course of time. To be clear, at once

you hit like age probably 50, 45 or 50,

we start to see a slowdown in production

of melatonin. We also see an increase in

what are called EEG arousals. So things

that break up your sleep and make it so

it's not so continuous. That can be

problematic as well. So there's a lot of

things that can happen as you age.

>> So do I start sleeping less as I get

older? You start sleeping poorer

quality. I'm not convinced that it's

always less.

>> And is that going to make me grumpy?

>> Yes, it is.

>> Really?

>> Absolutely. Poor quality sleep is, I

would argue, is much worse than poor

quantity sleep. I I would rather I've

got somebody who got 5 hours of really

great sleep versus seven hours of really

light crappy sleep every time.

>> Does that mean that as I get older, I'm

going to be more grumpy?

>> It depends on the quality of your sleep.

So, what I can teach you is how to not

get poor quality sleep as you age.

Perfect example, a lot of folks who are

a little bit on the older side are used

to drinking coffee late in the day.

Well, if you change that habit, then you

don't have as many sleep problems.

>> And I shouldn't I shouldn't be having

coffee late in the day at all.

>> Probably you want to stop by about 2

p.m., right? So, if you stop around 2

p.m., the halfife of caffeine is between

6 and 8 hours. So, 8 hours later is

roughly 10, which is roughly when people

are kind of wanting to go to sleep. So,

I would say that that would probably be

the the time to do it. I think about my

siblings and us all being woken up for

school and I think about my performance

in school

>> and of all my siblings, there's four of

us.

>> I was the one that always struggled with

being woken up in the morning in part

because I'd gone to bed later.

>> But then I was also the one that

struggled with school the most.

>> Yeah. That characteristic of a wolf

characteristic of this night person. If

I'm honest with you, dude, like most

kids should not be waking up at the time

they're waking up to go to school,

right? I mean so many kids are waking up

at real like you know 5:30 6:00 in the

morning they have an hourong bus ride

then they get there and if you're an

adolescent I don't think anything could

be worse

>> right

>> so we have to really start to try to be

a little bit more thoughtful and look at

like what are some of the activities

that kids are doing how can we get them

to maybe take naps during the day if

they need them um athletic performance

can depend on sleep academic performance

can depend on sleep it's it's

unbelievable all the different things

yes

>> has there ever been any research done

>> there has on different chronotypes

academic performance.

>> There has been actually they haven't

they labeled it directly as chronotypes

but they've looked at it based on age

range and we know that for example here

in the United States there's a big push

for to change school start times so that

way high schoolers aren't starting at

7:00 in the morning because high schools

shouldn't be starting at 7 o'clock in

the morning. Preschoolers should be

starting at 7 o'clock in the morning

because their body naturally wakes up at

that time. So, we've actually seen there

was a great study um that was done at

the University of Minnesota that

discovered that um when they just had

people come in 1 hour later from their

first period, they improved by one full

letter grade, meaning they went from

being C students to being B students or

from B students to A students merely by

changing the timing of their first

class. So that should give you pretty

good insight as to sort of these big

area like and and all children are

vulnerable to this. Like this is not

like I'm not telling you anything that's

new. This is these are studies that have

been going on for quite a while. And

there's actually a whole movement trying

to get school start times to to slow

down now.

>> Looking at some of the research here, it

says research consistently shows that

morning types, which is the

>> lion,

>> the lion, earn higher grades not due to

higher IQ, but because exams are

scheduled during their peak alertness

windows. You got it.

>> That's crazy.

>> Sometimes wolves turn out to be much

smarter, but because they're they can't

perform at those early times, nobody

knows. Remember, wolves are my

creatives. Like, where do you think some

of these create great creative

innovations and ideas come from in the

tech world, right? Like, these are the

wolves that are out there that are up

late at night coding and trying to

figure out what's going on.

>> It's pretty cool when you think about

it. And I just there's this thing called

the synchronous synchrony effect from a

study in 2020 where nearly 800 students

found a clear synchrony effect. Students

performed significantly better when

their class schedule matched their

chronotype.

>> Exactly.

>> Those morning people dominated in

morning classes and and the owls um or

the wolves often caught up and

outperformed the morning people when

tested in the afternoon or evening.

>> Exactly.

>> It's pretty fascinating. Now think about

it like this. Could you imagine a school

system where if we identified children's

chronotypes during their particular age

range and then we changed the testing so

that they got tested when they're at

their peak hours?

>> Yeah.

>> They'd actually do better.

>> People don't know this, but I never do p

podcasts in the morning.

>> I don't blame you ever.

>> You shouldn't. Yeah.

>> It's it's not your time. Yeah.

>> Right. Like you have a very specific

subscribed time that I think works well

for you. So I think you should abide by

that.

>> Duration of sleep. There's lots of

conversation around how long you're

supposed to sleep for. What what's the

truth? Yeah.

>> 8 hours is a myth. Let's be fair. Like

we came up with that from like the 30s.

There was a great study at Stanford that

came up with 8 hours and 13 minutes plus

or minus. And that's kind of where we

came up with that as an idea. The truth

of the matter is somewhere between 7 and

9 hours really is kind of the amount

that people should be looking for. But

some people don't have that luxury. Some

people don't have that much time that

they can put towards sleep and so they

get a little bit less sleep. But for the

lower level limit, I don't like anybody

getting less than 6 hours. When somebody

gets less than 6 hours sleep, their

driving is off. And so you can't operate

machinery. So if you're driving to work

or god forbid, carpooling your kids to

school and you're only you only got, you

know, less than 6 hours of sleep on on

board, it's probably not going to go

well.

>> We we do have to stop here and talk

about parents because listen, you're

either a parent now, you might be

someday. Absolutely.

>> Maybe you won't be. But for those I've

just got a huge amount of respect for

parents because you know I've gone I'm

not a parent yet. I hope I will become

one. But when I see what my brother who

has three kids under the age of what

seven now um

>> how much sleep has he lost?

>> A lot and and and his wife as well. But

um you must get parents coming to you

all the time being like what the hell do

I do? Like I've got the I've got to wake

up when the kids wake up and but I'm

it's destroying my my relationship, my

marriage, my sex, whatever it might be.

>> Yeah. So parenting children and sleep

are difficult to coexist, but they're

not impossible. It really has to do with

discipline and kind of thinking through

some ideas for yourself. When my So I

have a 23-year-old son and a 22-year-old

daughter, so I'm a little bit out of the

the realm of having to deal with them

every day. Um, but I was, like I said

before, I was in charge of mornings uh

at our house waking them up. And it's a

lot, right? And so the very first thing

that I try to explain to parents,

especially if they have a child who has

an irregular sleep pattern and is really

causing chaos for the rest, like one

child who won't go to sleep and it's

keeping every the whole house up. First

thing you want to do, educate the kid,

right? A lot of kids don't know what

they're doing is causing a lot of

problems. They they're just kids.

They're just hanging out having fun. You

know, they're they've got energy. They

want to be awake. So that you want to

educate them and say, "Hey, now is a

particular time to wind down. This is

where your body recovers. this is how

you get to do sports the next day or

theater the next day or ac whatever your

computers whatever your thing is you can

tie it to sleep and performance pretty

easily and so getting them to understand

that becomes very very critical number

two is have some guidelines right have

bedtimes have wake up times and follow

them as quick as closely as you can for

parents oftentimes what I try to tell

them to do is like look after your child

goes to bed if you've got a child that

has problems for sleeping

take turns. Do what I call the on call

method. So, as a doctor, sometimes, you

know, you get a call in the middle of

the night because you you're covering

patients at the hospital for your buddy

or something like that. You're on call.

So, when you've got two people who are

managing one child, one person handles

Monday night, Wednesday night, Friday

night, the other one handles Tuesday,

Thursday, Saturday. You flip a coin for

Sunday. So, if the kid wakes up at 2

o'clock in the morning, both parents

aren't awake. One parent has that

responsibility. the other one can keep

their eyes closed and go to sleep.

Interesting study was done looking at

men and women in bed when a child cries.

So women take care of the child whereas

men lie there and fake sleeping in order

to be able to stay asleep, right? That's

problematic. Um in a lot of

>> they know in the study that they were

fake sleeping

>> because they asked the men afterwards

what were you doing and they all said

they woke up and they were faking it.

It's pretty crazy when you think about

it. But this is a big this is a big deal

for parents, right? A lot of parents

turn to me and they're like, "This is

killing our marriage." Like, "We haven't

had sex in, you know, three years

because we've got a child who maybe the

child has special needs or maybe the

child doesn't have special needs, but

has other things going on or maybe it's

just normal development and and you

know, they're worried about it." And so,

what I like to sit down with parents and

do is number one, let's figure out when

your kid needs to sleep and let's set

some guidelines and rules. But number

two, let's do the same for you.

>> Right? A lot of parents when they're

super stressed out, one of the first

things they do, grab a glass of wine,

right? Wine's about the worst thing you

could possibly do for sleep to be fair.

Now, I'm going to teach people how you

can still have a glass or two of alcohol

and not completely destroy your sleep.

But I want to be very clear about

something. If you're using alcohol as a

stress relief tool at night before bed,

it's messing up your sleep probably

pretty bad.

>> You might be asleep, but the quality of

your sleep is

>> is [ __ ] It's awful, right? And

interestingly enough, during the one

stage of sleep that alcohol knocks out,

which is stage three and four sleep,

what's the most interesting is that dur

during that particular stage of sleep,

there's something called the

glimpmphatic system that comes in and

scoops out these proteins that have a

tendency to accumulate in your brain.

And when proteins accumulate in your

brain, they wrap around the nerves and

that's called Alzheimer's disease.

>> So stage four sleep is imperative to

avoid Alzheimer's disease. And when you

drink alcohol, you destroy stage four

sleep. H.

>> So, it would be great if nobody drank

alcohol, but I'm not so stupid as to

think that. Plus, I like bourbon. I like

whiskey. I enjoy a glass of champagne

every once in a while. So, how can you

successfully still drink alcohol and

still get a decent night's sleep? I'm

going to give you a quick one, right?

Let's say you're having dinner at 6:30,

have your first glass of wine, then have

a glass of water, right? Then your

second glass of wine starts at, let's

say, almost 7:00, right? Then you have

your second glass of water. Then you

stop everything by 7:30. You wait 3

hours, which would be 10:30, and then

you can go to bed.

>> Why the water? Why the weight?

>> So, the water helps wash it through the

system. Also fills your stomach up so

you don't have too much. So, you you've

got more fluid in there so that way you

don't drink extra wine. Um, and it makes

you have to pee, which flushes the

system out as well. The 3 hours.

>> And it hydrates you.

>> It does. Okay.

>> Absolutely. Because remember, wine pulls

uh both magnesium and uh most water out

of your system because it makes you have

to go pee.

>> Helps with the hangover. So, there's a

couple of different things that I would

say. Number one, this definitely helps

with the hangover because you've got

water going in. For a lot of my

patients, what I tell them is the very

last thing that you could do is have a

little bit of coconut water. So, coconut

water is loaded with zinc, magnesium,

and vitamin B. And those are some of the

things that get pulled out of your

system uh when you're drinking. By the

way, did you know that there are happy

hours specific to your chronoype?

>> Didn't know that. No.

>> Yeah. So, it's kind of interesting. So

here's what's cool about it is your body

produces something called alcohol

dehydrogenase which is how you

metabolize alcohol but it does it at a

particular time and the time is

different for each chronotype.

>> So your body is most efficient at

drinking between basically the hours of

4 and 8 happy hour as a lot of people

know it.

>> And how do you think about what time you

eat at night time?

>> Such a great question. So 3 hours before

bed, you want to stop fluids including

alcohol um and food. You want to just

stop it all 3 hours before bed. So it

takes your body about that level of time

to number one digest, clear all the

food, and then have all the mechanisms

that are working towards digestion now

be able to be refocused onto the

recovery process of sleep. However, I I

will tell you that there's this uh I've

seen a couple people and there are

people out there that are claiming that

if they stop eating at 11:00 in the

morning that it helps their sleep

dramatically at night. And it turns out

it has to do with your heart rate. So,

one of the big metrics that is very

important that all of our viewers and

listeners want to know is you need a

heart rate of 60 or below in order to

enter into a state of unconsciousness.

And when you've got food in your

stomach,

>> your heart rate is up.

>> That's right.

>> So, right. So if the longer you can

wait, the lower your heart rate is, the

easier it gets into sleep. And so when

we're talking about So a great example,

let's get back to parents for a second,

right? You feed your kids at an earlier

time and then what do you do? Oh, then

you go back and have dinner with your

spouse, right? Maybe that's not the best

idea because you're having dinner so

late. Maybe you should have dinner with

your kids, right? And and enjoy that

time with them and eat earlier because

that gives you more space later on to be

able to relax and go to bed. I said that

tracks because I remember I've told this

story once or twice before. I remember

when I was doing some podcasts over here

in LA, we had Seth Rogan on.

>> Sure.

>> And the day before in the hotel before I

lived here, I had a cookie from the mini

bar. I'm going to admit it. I had the

cookie and

>> they're so good.

>> It was And then I went to bed pretty

quickly.

>> Oh god,

>> we were just terrible. And I was looking

at my whoop the next day ad

>> and it my heart rate

>> was like 75 or 80 for the first 2 to 3

hours after I got into bed.

>> Isn't that crazy?

>> And I woke up feeling like hell.

>> Yep.

>> Terrible day the next day. I was

terrible during the conversation

>> and I looked at my go, "Oh my god, it

was that cookie. It put my heart rate

high."

>> So also on top of that is sugar.

>> Yeah. I mean, [ __ ] me. Yeah.

>> Right. So sugar turn so sugar actually

slows production of melatonin. Remember

melatonin is kind of the key that starts

the Yeah. The key that starts the engine

for sleep.

>> So is there anything else that I can do

to make sure my heart rate is low as I

get into bed?

>> Absolutely. Meditate.

>> Okay.

>> Breath work. All kinds of brings my

heart rate down.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. So what a lot of

people don't realize is just because

we're breathing doesn't mean we're

actually breathing in a way, shape, and

form that can be helpful for us for

sleep. So, in my most recent book,

Sleep, Drink, Breathe, I talk a lot

about breath work and what is it and how

does it work for you. But I'd love to

teach you my favorite form of breath

work and meditation. Um, that I think

you'll you'll get a lot out of. So,

>> and I do this before bed.

>> Exactly.

>> Okay.

>> And you can, by the way, you can do it

in the middle of the night if you wake

up as well. Right. So, let's talk about

how to get how to fall asleep and do

some relaxation exercises for that. And

then I'm gonna give you some different

ones for in the middle of the night. So,

let's talk beginning of the night. So,

number one, you need runway to land the

plane. Okay? So many people think

they're just waiting for their head to

be bobbing in front of the TV and then

they go brush their teeth and they get

in bed and then all of a sudden they're

wide awake and they don't know what's

going on, right? So, you need time for

your system to shut down. It's not an

onoff switch. It's more like slowly

pulling your foot off the gas and slowly

putting your foot on the brake. There's

a process. It should take you about 12

to 15 minutes to actually fall asleep.

Okay? So number one, what I ask people

to do is take the last hour before bed

and chop it up into three 20 minute

segments, right? So let's say you're

going to bed at 11, starting at 10:00.

And by the way, set an alarm on your

phone to to tell you that it's 10:00

because it's really easy to slide by

your bedtime and then all of a sudden

it's like all bets are off. So set the

alarm 20 minutes for [ __ ] you just got

to do. So, in our house, it used to be

getting backpacks together for school

for our kids, finding sports equipment,

maybe laying out my stuff for work the

next day or getting last emails sent,

something like that. 20 minutes for

hygiene, right? Brush your teeth, wash

your face, maybe take a shower,

something along those lines. And then 20

minutes for some form of meditation,

relaxation, prayer. I don't care what

you do, but it has to be something

that's calming to get you there. Okay?

So, my one of my favorite techniques to

do is meditation. Now, I'm going to be

honest with you. I'm a terrible

meditator. I have never been able to do

it. I've actually gotten kicked out of

meditation retreats because I'm the guy

that's like, "What's going on?" Like, am

I doing it right? You know, I'm kind of

that that person. And so, I was I was

told about this tool called a Muse

headband. We have one right here. So,

this is my personal Muse. I actually

brought it from home. And um you'll

notice on the inside there are sensors

here. And there are sensors along the

earpiece here. And so what happens is is

you wear it on your head, right? And

it's measuring your brain waves. And so

when we're Yeah. Check it out. And so

when we're when we're doing it and we're

measuring brain waves. Yep. Exactly. And

that goes on the back part. Yeah. There

you go. So what's cool about this is

it's attached to an app. And then while

it's measuring your brain waves, you're

listening to a particular music. It

could be a guided meditation. It could

be any of those things. And while you're

doing this, the volume gets lower. And

then you know you're getting closer to a

meditative state.

>> The volume comes down when

>> on the app when your brain wave starts

to relax.

>> Oh, okay.

>> So, you're immediately getting feedback.

We can try it if you want. Um, but it's

pretty interesting. And then when you

get to the alpha state, little birds

start chirping.

>> The alpha state.

>> Yeah. The alpha state is when your eyes

are closed and you're at the most

relaxed state of your brain waves. It's

called the alpha state. And that's

really what people are trying to get to

for meditation.

>> And are you affiliated with this company

in any way?

>> I am not.

>> And how much does it cost? I think it's

around $275

I think is the headband.

>> Okay. Interesting.

>> It's pretty fascinating. Um I I've been

pretty impressed with them.

>> So that's meditation.

>> You talked about breath work as well

before.

>> Yeah. Let's talk about it. So one of the

other things that I do is I do something

Well, this isn't breath work. This is

called progressive muscle relaxation. So

this is where you tense and relax

muscles starting from your feet and

going all the way up your body. And as

you tense and relax the muscles, you

feel that relaxation from releasing that

tension and it helps you fall asleep.

Um, actually, you know what I can do is

I can send you a an audio file that has

me walking through progressive muscle

relaxation that we can make available

for everybody if you want. We for free.

It's no big deal.

>> Amazing. I'll put that in the

description below as well.

>> Yeah. Yeah. People will really dig it. I

think they'll really enjoy it. So,

that's another thing that we do. But

now, let's talk about the middle of the

night, right? So, by the way, do you

have this as an issue? Have this has

this happened to you before? It it

happens sometimes and it's typically

when like my sleep is somewhat

disordered or disruptive or when there's

really something on my mind.

>> Yes. So that that precipitatory anxiety

like before a flight like if I have an

8:00 in the morning flight like I sleep

like [ __ ] the night before because I'm

constantly worried about that. Right.

But a lot of times what people do

normally is they just wake up in the

middle of the night and they can't

return to sleep and they're really not

sure why. So number one there's biology

involved. So your core body temperature

rises rises rises and when it hits a

peak it drops. That drop is then a

signal to your brain to release

melatonin. Right? Again, the key that

starts the engine for sleep. However,

your core body temperature continues to

drop, drop, drop. By the way, this is

the reason why we tell people you want

to sleep in the cool, not the warm

environment. Because again, your core

body temperature is dropping. If it's

too hot, your core body temperature

can't go down and you can't get to

sleep,

>> which tracks with evolution.

>> Exactly. So, here's where it gets

interesting is it keeps going, going,

going, and then at some point in time,

your body has to heat up. And if it

doesn't heat up, you go hypothermic.

Guess what time that is? Between 1 and 3

o'clock in the morning.

>> Oh, your body starts heating up at 1 1

and 3.

>> Every single person's body on Earth does

this. Everybody on Earth wakes up

between 1 and 3:00 in the morning.

However, most people burp, roll over,

get comfortable, and fall back asleep in

30 seconds. However, there's a select

group of people who end up being my

patients who don't have that. And there

here in lies the problem. So, here are

the steps you want to take in the middle

of the night to be able to solve this

issue. So number one, don't go pee. I

know, I know, I know people like, "What?

What are you talking about, Michael?" So

here's what ends up happening is when

people wake up in the middle of the

night, they say to themselves, "Well,

I'm up. I might as well go pee." Right?

Here's the problem. Remember I told you

the big metric was in order to enter

into a state of unconsciousness, you

need a heart rate of 60 or below. Right?

What do you think happens to your heart

rate when you go from a lying position

to a seated position to a standing

position? You walk across the room, your

heart rate goes straight up. So what we

want to do is keep your heart rate down.

So, if you don't really have to go to

the bathroom, don't go to the bathroom.

75% of people sleep on their sides and

they kind of squunch up, which means

they're putting pressure on their

bladder. So, my guess is is that most of

those people, if all you did was when

you woke up is lie and get on your back

for about 25 seconds and see if you

still need to pee. If you don't need to

pee, stay in bed and keep your heart

rate down. If you need to pee, please go

pee. Right? If you're going to go to the

bathroom, have a strategically placed

nightlight along the way so you don't

have to flip on the light in the water

closet because if you do that, you just

told your brain it's morning and it

stops producing melatonin. But let's say

you don't have to pee. The second thing,

don't look at your phone. Now, this

turns out to be very difficult for 99%

of the people out there because the

first thing they do is they grab their

phone and they head to the bathroom,

right? and they're either checking

emails, looking at Facebook or Twitter

or whatever social media they're on,

>> or we're just trying to figure out what

time it is

>> or and that's where the problem is is as

soon as you see the time, you instantly

do the mental math and now you're pissed

off, right? It's 3:30 in the morning. I

got to get up at 6:00. Sleep, sleep,

sleep. And you try to force your brain

to sleep. Dude, in the history of time,

nobody has been able to force their

brain to sleep, okay? Because your heart

rate's going in the wrong way, right? It

needs to be coming down. So, if you can,

don't look at the clock. All right, so

you haven't peed, you haven't looked at

the clock, but you're still awake and

nothing's going on. Here's where the

breathing technique comes in. It's

called 478

breathing. I did not develop this

technique. It was developed by Dr.

Andrew Wild, Harvard trained natural

doctor, super smart dude. Um, and uh, he

did it for the military to teach them

how to lower their heart rate during

stressful situations. We use it because

it helps lower our heart rate past 60.

And it's super simple. I'm going to get

you to try it. So, go ahead and sit up

straight. Okay. And so all you're going

to do is breathe in for a count of four.

You're going to hold for a count of

seven. And you're going to breathe out

for a count of eight. And I'm going to

walk you through it. I want you to have

your eyes closed. And what I also want

you to do, you're going to go in through

the nose, out through the mouth. And

then what I also want you to do is

picture the number in your head. So when

I say breathe in two, three, four, you

should picture the two, the three, the

four in your mind's eye. Okay?

>> With my eyes closed.

>> With your eyes closed. You ready?

>> Yep. Breathe in. 2 3 4. Hold. 2 3 4 5 6

7. Push. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. Good. You want

to get through about 20 cycles of that.

It's incredibly relaxing. I actually did

it before I came out here to do the pod

because it helps lower my heart rate and

gets me centered.

H. It's pretty remarkable. Now, there's

some problems with the technique. Number

one, sometimes it's hard to hold for

seven, and sometimes it's really hard to

push for eight. So, I tell people you

can do this four, five, six, 4, 6, 7, or

478. So, just work your way up to it,

right? If if it's too hard to hold your

breath for 7 seconds or it's too too

hard to push your breath for eight, you

can do a little bit less just while

you're getting used to it. And then the

other big thing is it's hard to figure

out where the 20 cycles is because you

need to get to 20 cycles of this. So,

what I have people do is take their

hands and make light fists while they're

doing this. And when they do one cycle,

they put out a finger. Another cycle,

put out a finger. And before you know

it, you got 10. And when you bring it

back, you've done 20 cycles.

>> It's funny. I just did two and I start

yawning.

>> I know. I just saw that. I'm telling

you, dude, this thing works, right? And

so, I have people do this technique.

Here's the best part is it avoids monkey

mind, right? So, what is monkey mind?

Monkey mind is I'm thinking about stuff

that I have no business thinking about

in the middle of the night for

absolutely no reason. Like what's on the

grocery list or what did I say to my

spouse or did that podcast go okay or

any of the things that might be floating

through your head? You cannot count and

worry at the same time.

>> And why does it work? What's going on in

my physiology? Uh-huh. You're

distracting the brain from the thing

that's stressing you out and it's

lowering your heart rate and then the

natural sleep process comes in after it.

So, all these are are distraction

techniques to be clear. Now, there's

there's several of them out there. One

of the other ones I use for some of my

patients is I tell them, "Hey, count

backwards from 300 by threes. It's

mathematically so complicated you can't

think of anything else and it's so damn

boring. You're out like a light." On

that point of distractions, a lot of

people go to bed listening to podcasts

or movies. Jack was just saying that,

you know, he he needs to listen to

something to fall asleep. I'm the same.

I listen to like serial killer stuff,

>> which is, you know,

>> that's interesting.

>> Don't don't judge me.

>> Wait till we get to the dreams part of

the podcast. I can't wait to hear what

you dream about. I

>> I don't I think I always try and figure

out why it is. And I My sister's the

same, my sister Amanda, and she

>> she listens to serial killer stuff to

fall asleep. I think it's because this

is just hypothesis. My mom would always

ask me to put on forensic files, which

was this like serial murder documentary

thing when we were younger cuz she

couldn't use the remote. So my mom would

say she'd pass me the remote, say, "Put

on forensic files." And I'd like put on

the number for her, right?

>> And so that was always playing in our

house at night time. And we all had TVs

in our bedroom that just mirrored what

was ever what was playing downstairs,

course.

>> So when I got into bed,

>> I'd watch

fall asleep.

>> This explains a lot about you.

>> I know, right? You say that to people,

they think you're yours. Yeah.

>> So, let me tell you what it's like in my

house. And actually, you and I have a

commonality. So, in my house, we have a

big screen TV. It's on all night long.

>> Where? In which room?

>> In my bedroom.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. When I met my wife, she said to

me, "Michael, if you ever happen to

spend the night, I want to let you know

that I sleep with the television on." I

said, "Don't worry about that, Lauren.

I'm gonna be a sleep doctor. I'm gonna

fix that." We we met when I was uh 30,

so uh known her for quite a while. And

uh you ever tried to change something in

your bed partner? Yeah, good luck.

>> Yeah, good luck. So I took the TV out.

She said, "If you ever want to come back

in here again, I suggest you put the I

put the TV back in." And then I studied

her to learn what was going on. And it

turns out that she's listening to it out

of what I call the corner of her ear.

Her eyes aren't even open. And half the

time it's a episode of Seinfeld or

something like that. My wife actually

likes murder mysteries and so it's

usually forensic files or something

along those lines that's going on. But

for her, it's a perfect distraction

technique. Now, there's a second thing

that's important uh in our bedroom that

happens uh is we have two dogs. They

sleep in the bed with us. I'm the

freaking sleep doctor, dude. Like, it's

insane. But the point here is sleep is

flexible. Okay? Just because it works

for you doesn't mean it works for your

bed partner. And and vice versa is also

true, right? Like just because some

people can't sleep with the TV on

doesn't mean that it's going to mess up

your sleep forever to have the

television on cuz it's not. And by the

way, 99% of TVs have timers built into

them. Like if you don't know what it is,

ask your kid. I had to ask my son. He

showed me how to use it. We turned it

off. It wasn't a problem, right? So

creating a sleep environment that is

conducive to sleep for you and your bed

partner can have a lot of variation to

it. And I don't think people there's no

hard and fast rule that says, "Hey,

nobody should ever sleep with the TV

on." I mean, there are people out there

who say that, but quite frankly,

everybody sleeps with the TV on.

>> Well, a lot of people do. I I I wouldn't

put the TV on in our bedroom. I mean,

we've done it once or twice or whatever,

cuz we're watching something and we slip

off to sleep and I wake up and I realize

it's on and I turn it off.

>> But I I also really think it's an

important point to say that people will

listen to podcasts like this. They'll

listen to the like biohackers of the

world and then they'll get so militant

about how they fall asleep that it will

cause friction because one partner is

different.

>> Don't do that. And I had this problem in

my relationship which was

>> my girlfriend sleeps in silence and is

has like just such a glorious routine to

everything she does.

>> And I am

>> completely the opposite

>> and the opposite like I need to like I

want to listen to a murder. I could be

on my phone. It's like when I look at my

Whoop scores

>> works for me.

>> Yeah.

>> It's like I am getting I have I get

great sleep even if I'm listening to a

serial killer documentary.

>> So

>> but not if you eat a cookie before bed.

>> Not if I eat a cookie. That's that's

gone. But I so what I do is I put one

AirPod in in my right ear. So whichever

ear is not going to be on the pillow

>> and it means I can listen to her if she

says something.

>> But when it's silence, all I hear is the

thing that I'm listening to.

>> So I've got a trick for you.

>> And I wake up in the morning and dig the

AirPod out of the bed where it ended up.

>> Right. So now I'm going to help you with

the digging of the AirPod. So first of

all, they now make these things called

pillow speakers.

>> Oh, interesting.

>> Right. So it's a it's a it's a Bluetooth

speaker that will attach to your phone

that you can just slide and it's just

under your pillow so only you can hear

it. So, that's number one. You might

want to consider that. And they're

pretty inexpensive. Number two, they now

make specifically earbuds designed to be

slept in.

>> Oh, nice.

>> So, there's a a new company out called

Next Sense. Um, and they have developed

an earbud that actually measures your

brain waves while you are sleeping. And

when you move into a lighter stage of

sleep, it sends in a frequency signal to

help you go back to sleep or to stay in

that depth of sleep. Brand new company.

Next sense. I have nothing to do with

them. I mean, it's a friend of mine who

owns the company, but I'm not on their

own.

>> I would like something to do with them

>> if we'll figure that out.

>> So, does it allow you to play your music

as well or your or your podcast or

whatever?

>> I can listen to Diary of a CEO every

single night while I fall asleep and it

will make sure that I don't wake up from

any dreams.

>> And you can still like and subscribe and

stuff.

>> Even through the earbuds, of course. I

think everybody should like and

subscribe.

>> That's a good feature like an AI agent

that helps you subscribe. Okay, so

that's that's you woke up in the middle

of the night. You don't pee. You don't

check your phone. You're doing these

breathing exercises. You don't give

yourself a hard time.

>> And then what happens? It doesn't work.

What do you do? Yeah. Right. So, there's

the new research on something called

non-sleep deep rest. We call it yoga

nidra. Okay? It's been around for

thousands of years. When you lie relaxed

in like a corpse pose like this, you're

actually doing something that's valuable

for your sleep. Now, I want to be clear.

It's not the same as sleep, but if you

lie there for an hour, it's like 20

minutes worth of sleep. So everybody

should know that even lying relaxed and

calm is very very helpful right but if

you start to get anxious and your heart

rate starts to tick up you need to get

yourself out of bed because that's when

because all you're doing then is

thinking hey this bed is this place

where I get anxious and pissed off. This

is not a place to sleep. So as long as

you stay nice and quiet the non-sleep

deep rest absolutely the thing to do.

The other big thing that I do and by the

way this happens to me on occasion too

like I'm not immune to it just because

I'm a sleep doctor. You have to stay

positive. And what I what do I mean by

that is everybody when they wake up in

the middle of the night, your brain is

set to negativity. There's no reason you

should be up at 3:00 in the morning that

something good is going on, right?

Nobody's coming in wishing you happy

birthday at 3:00 in the morning.

Something terrible has happened. And

your brain has gotten accustomed to

that. So when it wakes up, it

immediately goes to the negative and you

start thinking about bad things. You

can't stop your first thought, but you

can stop your second thought, right?

Right? And so when you wake up and you

think negative, what I want you to

replace that with is, "Okay, Michael,

for some reason, your body has decided

to wake up at 3:00 in the morning, it's

not the game that I wanted to be playing

tonight. However, I think I'm going to

be okay. I'm just going to lie here and

relax and let the natural sleep process

take over. If I feel my heart rate

increasing, I'm going to go to another

room in the house where I've already got

a book and a light set up so I can do a

little bit of light reading and then

come back to sleep." And I just tell

myself that I give myself permission to

just chill, just relax. And then you

know what happens? The natural sleep

process comes over. As soon as your

heart rate starts to go down, your body

wants to get back to sleep. And so it

really has a lot to do with heart rate.

>> I love having these conversations on the

diio because I have a huge amount of

sympathy and concern for people that

don't get sufficient sleep. And I know

there's a lot of people that don't. And

I actually think it's to some degree

it's somewhat increasing because of the

way we live our lives. I was looking at

some of the stats around the increase

and there's a study done in 2025 and

early 2026 that revealed we're in a

global sleep crisis.

>> Oh yes, we are.

>> Both the CDC and Stanford Medicine

report said that one in three adults and

nearly 80% of teenagers are now

chronically sleepdeprived.

>> Correct. A 2026 survey by the American

Academy of Sleep Medicine found that 93%

of Gen Z admit to regularly losing sleep

due to social media usage. And 71% of

employed respondents globally have said

>> that they sometimes call in sick at

least once or twice due to poor sleep.

>> Just to sleep. Yeah. When I was down in

Australia doing some work down there, a

lot of Australians they take holiday and

they just sleep.

>> Yeah.

>> Just to catch up. Like it's it's pretty

remarkable. We're in a very sleep-d

deprived society and I think there's a

couple of different reasons why that is.

Number one,

>> have you seen what's going on outside in

the world today? It's pretty crazy out

there. Well, I can understand why people

are getting a little anxious.

>> I think one could argue it's been

crazier through history, but we never

knew about it,

>> right? Well, I mean, the media getting

it to getting us this information so

quickly, I think, is definitely what I

would agree with you. It was much

crazier during like World War II, you

know, and stuff like that. Now we're

getting information so quickly and

people are getting so ratcheted up about

it. I think that has something to do

with it. But if I I think the bigger

culprit is people being overweight. You

know, when you look here in the United

States and you look at the obesity

epidemic and you look at people being

overweight, it's something close to like

70s something percent of people in

America are overweight. When you're

overweight, that puts you in line for

potentially having something called

sleep apnea. Now, I want to be clear,

not everybody with sleep apnea is

overweight, but a a large percentage of

the people with sleep apnnea are bigger

people. And so, when you look at a

society that's getting bigger and all

the unhealthy food that we've got going

on, like all this highly processed food,

things of that nature, that isn't

helping anybody, it's adding the pounds.

And specifically, like for men, we gain

weight through our necks. Like I I don't

know if you've ever noticed it, but like

if you ever were heavy and you lose