Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> Yeah.

>> Disclosure day. Very interesting.

>> Yeah. I'm excited for him.

>> Yeah. He was always like way ahead of

the curve when it comes to the whole UAP

UFO stuff, you know, with Close

Encounters of the Third Kind. He had

that French scientist that was

essentially modeled after

>> Jacqu Valet.

>> He's always been I I would love to talk

to him. I wonder how much he knows.

>> Is that an [laughter] accident? Was he

uh fed some information? Was he a part

of disclosure the whole time? That's

what I've always wondered.

>> I mean, what does that mean, right?

because there hasn't really been

disclosure.

>> No, but it has to be a slow process too,

right?

>> You think so?

>> I don't think I mean the whole idea is

that they're just sort of normalizing

it, right?

>> Uh neural linguistic programming they

call it where you're slowly getting

people accustomed to these ideas like

the the aspects of Close Encounters for

instance where you have the radiation

burns on the guy's face. you have a time

travel component where these uh World

War II soldiers get out of the craft

with the little beans and the bigger

being. And I mean just just seeding

seeding our culture with those little

bits of information that might help

later on down the line.

>> That was like in the 70s, wasn't it?

Like when was Close Encounters?

>> Uh yeah, I think it was the 70s.

>> Late 70s, early 80s maybe. Um, either

way, I mean, like a lot of stuff he's

done, like I I rewatched the

>> go, what was it? Jeff Bridg's Star Man.

I think there's a lot of elements of

disclosure in that, too. Like, I think

there's just

>> I don't know. I mean, obviously, we

don't know who's pulling the strings. We

don't know what's going on. We don't

know who's in charge. But, it does make

sense that if there is this thing that

they know about that we're supposed to

know about, leak it out. Do it slowly.

Get in our culture. get it in our our

our media in different ways.

>> You know the how put off story right

with George Bush?

>> Do you know a story where they were

talking about Okay. Hal talked about it

on my podcast, but he also talked about

it in the age of disclosure documentary

where they brought in him and a bunch of

different prominent thinkers.

>> Yeah, I watched that episode and I

watched um the do.

>> So to people that don't know, I'll just

explain it. So they brought in him and a

bunch of other prominent thinkers and

they had they they sat them down and

said essentially we have recovered

crashed UFOs. We have biological remains

of these creatures. Uh we are

considering releasing it to the public

and we want to make an assessment of

what are the pros and what are the cons.

So we want to assign a numerical value

that you know you're estimating what

kind of an impact it would be on uh

government, finances, religion, etc.

>> About whether they should do it

basically, right?

>> Whether or not they should release this

information and all of the people that

were brought in came to the agreement

that there was more con than there were

pro and that formed their decision to

not release it.

>> And didn't he say at first like he was

pro disclosure? He was like, "Of course

we should do this." And then after the

conversation, he switched teams. And

>> yeah, I don't know about that. Maybe,

perhaps. I mean,

>> said that he he went into it thinking,

well, yeah, obviously we should do this.

>> And then sort of was convinced otherwise

after the conversation unfolded.

>> Yeah. How could you be convinced? Like

whose decision should it be? If some

people know, everyone should know.

>> It's a humanity decision. It's I don't

think it should be in anybody's h in

anybody's hands

>> to decide whether or not this

information gets distributed. And the

implications too if they have zero point

energy like how would that solve the

problems that we face today? There's so

many ramifications of it that

>> yeah who whose decision is it and why

has it been kept from us? I I don't I

don't buy that whole like Orson Wells

1938 everybody freak out [ __ ] I

don't I I don't think that's the case.

At least not anymore. There's got to be

something more to it than that.

>> It would certainly have I don't know if

they factor this in but a uniting

element. Like you remember the Reagan

speech we gave in front of the United

Nations where he said imagine how united

we would be. We'd forget our differences

if we were faced with an alien threat

from another world.

>> I mean just knowing that we are alli I

mean we How old are you?

>> Uh 47.

>> Okay. So you remember September 11th?

>> Mhm. One of one of the things that

happened after September 11th was there

was it was a horrible tragedy but there

was a beautiful result temporarily where

everybody was rei united like really

united like there was American flags in

everybody's car in Los Angeles you know

like the most ridiculous progressive

sort of kind of

>> you know kind of [ __ ] up place but

everybody became patriotic and in New

York everyone was friendly I mean people

were smiling and saying hi to each other

on the streets we had all decided that

we were together and that we were faced

with a real threat and that we had to be

united. And

>> I remember it well. Yeah, you're right.

And then not to get too weird too fast

here, but if there are aspects of sort

of an all-encompassing consciousness

that unites us associated with UFO

phenomenon, too. If we recognize that we

are just fingerprints on the same hand,

we're all iterations of the same

overarching consciousness. if seemingly

there is a part of that in the UFO

phenomenon. So, how would that unite us

as well? Even beyond the threat from

outside, like if we did start to

understand that we're all part of the

same sort of cosmic community. Um,

sounds kind of weird to say that.

>> It does sound weird, but have you seen

the Apple show Plurbus?

>> No. It comes up a lot. Worth watching.

>> It's really good. It's really good. It's

very, very original, very unique, but

that is essentially what happens. and it

has a negative aspect to it.

>> There's a virus.

>> I don't want to give away too much of it

for people that want to watch the show

because it's a really good show, but

there's a virus that they get a signal

from another world and they figure out

what this signal is and through this lab

work they reveal that this signal is

some sort of the encoding of a specific

virus. They work on this specific virus.

It spreads and the entire planet becomes

one consciousness except [clears throat]

for a small number of people.

>> Interesting.

>> It's a weird show. It's a really good

show. I'm I don't want to explain any

more of it like that without any spoiler

alerts, but it's [ __ ] great.

>> But it's strange. It's like, wouldn't

that be better? There's no crime.

There's no this. There's no that. But

and then it reveals all the problems

that come along with that.

>> Yeah. I'm gonna have to watch that as a

counterpoint if anything else because it

it makes sense to me that if everyone's

kind of united as one

>> Yeah.

>> uh super organism of sorts, but

>> but you lose all individuality. You lose

all the fun parts about being an

imperfect person because we are an

imperfect species. But that's also what

makes great art. That's what makes great

music.

>> It's what makes great fun.

>> Most creative people have the most

trauma in their past from what I've

seen. And if you have zero trauma, you

probably have sucky art. [laughter]

>> It's just stick figures and [ __ ]

>> I mean, I wonder why would be I mean, if

they would even have a need for it. I

mean, it's

>> because it's an expression. It's getting

your angry out,

>> right? Or your angst or your anxiety or

depression, whatever it is, you're

you're getting something out.

>> I was telling my son that the other day.

Obvious name. He's

>> You know, it's hard being in these

bodies, especially going through

puberty. You know, you're just like,

what is [clears throat] this thing I'm

carrying? this little meat suit, you

know, and and I was like, man, I I was

the same way. Still am the same way. And

I I picked up instruments. I started

painting. I learned to play every sport

I could physically play. Like, there's

ways to get that out, you know, but it

seems like a lot of that does come from

just the anxiety and the ang and, you

know, you're growing into yourself.

You're starting to get the feels, you

know, you look at women differently and

it's like,

>> what do I do with this?

>> Well, it re changes. It rewires the

entire way you view the world.

>> And meanwhile, your body is physically

changing and growing. You're like, "What

am I going to look like eventually? This

is weird. It's so [laughter] weird." You

know, there's actually this uh in a

small island in the Pacific. They have

this weird um characteristic where they

start out as females. Everybody does. We

all start out as females and utro and

then maleness is imposed on the

developing fetus. But they they don't

until puberty cuz they they're not

sensitive to dihydrotestosterone, the

precursor to testosterone. So they grow

up their entire life as girls and then

at puberty they turn into a boy.

>> So they get raised as girls.

>> They are girls. They're physically

penises. Not yet. Nope.

>> What is this planet? I mean this

[laughter] is an island.

>> It's an island in the South Pacific.

It's called pseudoh hermaphroditism.

Weird. I know. I learned about this in

grad school. I was like they look like

girls. What?

>> Exactly like girls. They are girls. And

then the ovaries descend as testicles

and the clitoris grows out into a penis.

>> Wow.

>> So you think puberty is hard enough

already? These people turn into the

opposite sex at age like 12 or 13. It's

wild, man.

>> So is this a bizarre genetic anomaly? Is

it something to do with the

>> Yeah. So a lot of times on islands you

get like really strange characteristics

of people because of the isolation that

and those characteristics get selected

just through genetic drift alone because

it's a small population. So just

probably one person had this really

weird trait where they're insensitive to

dihydrotestosterone and then it spread

throughout more of the population.

>> It doesn't do anything. It's not

something natural selection would select

against. It's just weird as [ __ ]

>> What is the name of this island?

>> Uh I don't remember the name of the

island, but the conditions called um

>> find it.

>> I think it's Malo Island and Vanadoo or

something.

>> That sounds Oh yeah.

>> How many people are on that island?

>> This says there's a population in 1979

of 2,300 people.

>> Yeah. And think historically,

>> two different kinds of people there or

something. It says too different kinds

of people,

>> two cultural groups.

>> Isn't that wild though, man? I remember

hearing about that in grad school at

Ohio State. And I was just like, I'm

sorry, what? [laughter]

>> So strange.

>> You just say,

>> I'm sure you've seen those people, the

ostrich feet people in Africa.

>> Uh-uh. It's a very strange genetic

anomaly where they don't grow toes. They

essentially have two very wide

appendages.

>> Weird. Yeah, they look it looks like an

like a like a weird birdfoot.

>> Huh.

>> It's very strange. But a bunch of people

in this particular tribe share this

trait.

>> Is there any advantage or it's just it's

like this where it just kind of happened

and

>> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I mean

I don't know what advantage there would

be. Maybe it's it's

>> maybe it's really sexy to them.

[laughter]

>> Maybe you could move better with it. I

don't know. It's it's that's what they

look like.

>> Whoa.

>> Yeah.

>> I don't know how I haven't seen that.

That's wild.

>> I know. Isn't that crazy?

>> I mean, it is kind of sexy.

>> Um, if that's what you're into, dog.

[laughter] How long that's been going on

for? VOMA.

>> See, that seems like more of like a

defect that just work toward fixity in

the population. Maybe not,

>> but it just makes you wonder like why

don't we, it's in Zimbabwe apparently.

Why don't we all have that? You know,

like what is what is the reason why we

have all these toes that it's called

electrodactyl?

Yeah.

Electrodactally.

I mean, historically, prehistorically,

evolutionarily, I should say, if you did

have something like that and you were a

hunter gatherer, you're kind of boned.

You know, you're not going to be able to

run after gazels.

>> I don't know. Maybe you can. Says their

feet are well adapted to the Zimbabzies.

Oh, Zambazi, not Zimbabwe. Zambazi

valleys, rough terrain, allowing them to

move quickly and efficiently through the

landscape.

>> All right, I take it back. I guess

>> it kind of makes sense, right? Because

what what it's saying is that their

their bones are fused. If you scroll up,

it'll say condition affecting ostrich

footed tribe. A genetic mutation passed

down through generations causes the

bones in the feet to fuse, resulting in

a claw-like structure with two large

toes. Toes are very vulnerable. I don't

know if you've ever broken a toe, but

>> I broke one an hour before I got on the

plane to come here.

>> Really?

>> If you can see my left foot.

>> Oh, that's hilarious.

>> That's ridiculous. Like the whole thing

is just purple.

>> Yeah, they're so small. Like my pinky

toe. I was messing around with my pinky

toe the other day cuz I I have to trim

my toenails, right? And the pinky toe is

like barely a nail. It's so tiny. And

I'm like, "God, this little thing is so

vulnerable and it has to support my

entire body weight or part of my entire

body weight."

>> Yeah, they're so dumb. Oh yeah, I don't

know if you can see that. It's all

>> your foot's jacked.

>> Yeah, dude. That was like right before I

was coming down here. I'm like, you

kidding me?

>> That sucks.

>> That Yeah, I've broken a bunch of toes.

It's It's very very annoying. And you

would imagine if you had two giant

[ __ ] elbow bones down there instead

of these

>> [ __ ] ass little toesies.

>> I know. Maybe that's why they did it.

Maybe that's what they got going on.

>> Kind of makes sense that that would be

an adaptation.

>> Invincible feet.

>> Yeah. Well, you know, we're we're so

vulnerable. We're and that's one of the

weirder things like so first we should

we get into what you do uh because you

have uh you have a very interesting

theory. Tell everybody what your

background is first of all.

>> Yeah. All right. That does seem like a

good place to start. Um

my background is in anthropology,

biological anthropology.

Um my research mostly focuses on

evolutionary anatomy, biio medicine.

I've done some archaeology various

places around the world and Montana. But

the reason I'm here, I assume, cuz

according to my friend Matt, we were uh

we were butchering a a mule deer, I

think I shot. And I was like, "Yeah, I

got to go to this conference." And I was

like, "Do you want to know what it's

about?" He's like, "Nobody gives a [ __ ]

about what you do other than UFOs,

[laughter] man." I was like, "Damn it,

he's right." Like I did actually used to

do a lot of what I thought was cool

stuff. But no, the the main thing is

that I've I've become known for

advocating for this idea that UFOs uh

and the aliens are actually our

timetraveling future human descendants.

I wouldn't even say as opposed to

extraterrestrials because I do think

that's a component too. I oftentimes get

pigeon holed. People are like, "Oh, you

just think they're all time travelers."

I don't. I actually say this all the

time, but it doesn't matter. Uh I do

think there's a lot going on. But but my

background and and the reason I approach

this question this way is because

there's a lot of characteristics of

these aliens that look so homminin. They

look just like us and specifically what

we'd expect to see in our homminin

future if the same evolutionary trends

continue into the future. So I kind of

just tie those things together and even

the the saucer shaped craft seemingly

are time machines themselves. So that's

kind of the cliffnotes version. Well,

it's a theory that a lot of people have

independently sort of come to, right?

>> Yeah. Especially recently.

>> And the the concept of Well, just if you

just think about ancient man, I was

watching this uh documentary on

Neanderthalss last night about this one

uh intact Neanderthal uh skeleton that

they found that was it had uh sort of

been

it he had died in a cave and you know

there's stellagmites. is stalactites or

mites. How do you say it?

>> Tites are up, mites are down.

>> So, he was essentially mineralized.

There was stuff all over the body and it

took a long time for them to break this

body.

>> I think I saw that. Was that on Netflix?

>> No, I was watching it on YouTube. Maybe

originally it was on Netflix, but it was

just documenting how strange this this

body was that they had found, but it was

immensely strong, like much stronger

than us. One of the interesting things

was that their visual cortex um the the

the part of the brain that would process

v imagery was larger than ours. 10 to

20% larger.

>> Yeah.

>> And that the so these things probably

had better eyesight than us perhaps even

were able to see at night.

>> And that this was a bigger stronger

version of a human being like much more

durable than what we are modern 2025

homo sapiens. Y

>> if you just look Yeah, that's it. So

that's one of them.

>> Neither human nor Neanderl.

>> Oh, really?

>> This is a published.

>> Is this the same? This might not be the

same one. This is maybe a different one.

That's a weird one because what's that

[ __ ] thing on its head?

>> That's what it says. It's a stagactite

growing out of it or something.

>> Wow. In a weird form. Weird.

>> Yeah, it's like a unicorn.

>> Yeah, like a crest.

>> They do uh they do have a sagittal

ridge.

>> Yes.

>> Um Homo Homo erectus had one. Well,

there's an offshoot in in our homminid

lineage called the paranthropus or

robust orolopithesines and they had a

full-on like gorilla style really

>> sagittal ridge. Yeah, cuz they were a

vegetarian so they just chewed all day,

>> right? So they had massive muscles to

chew.

>> Yeah. Their whole face is huge.

>> Wow.

>> Neanderls uh kind of I mean they were

just big. It's just a robusticity thing.

But there is uh evidence from Shannidar

cave in uh Iraq where they were using

their teeth as tools. We think they were

like tanning hides. They were holding

the hide in their mouth and then like

scraping all the nasty bits off.

>> Oh,

>> and you can see that in the tooth wear.

So, yeah, they were they were pretty

badass. They were the first I don't

know. I think this is cool, but a lot of

people think I'm a nerd, too. Um, they

were the [laughter] first to to use the

flake. Like, for 2.8 million years, we

just hit a piece of rock and like, "Oh,

this cool tool." But then they figured

out uh that if you hit the rock in just

the right way, the piece that falls off

makes an even better tool. It took us

like 2.5 exactly make an arrow head.

>> And from that point on, like I I got to

work at a place called Shapino Jeanzac

in southern France

>> for a summer and it was an interl site.

And we found these actually it's pretty

funny because when we first got there

these these tools called MTA handaxes,

Musteri and it was Shulian tradition

handaxes. There were only eight found in

all of Europe and they said if you guys

find one of these we'll buy you all the

beer and all the conac you can drink. So

we're in the cognac region of France and

we found one like the fourth or fifth

day. We went on to find seven more over

the course of that week. We doubled the

number of these things in existence.

>> Wow.

>> In all of Europe and they were not

lying. They bought [laughter] us so many

damn beers. Like archaeologists like to

drink, you know. We we dig and it's

boring as hell. you know, it's not

Indiana Jones. We're not running around

banging hot chicks and flying on planes.

We're like, we got a spoon and we're

doing this for eight hours. So, uh,

yeah, I actually found the last one on

the last day and it was by far the worst

one. Like, I had to argue that this is

even it should even count as one of

these.

>> Um, but yeah, no, it was it was a cool

site. Um, so yeah, they were they they

were doing well, but we were doing

better. We came in and replaced them.

>> Something happened where we replaced

them.

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The point is, as time goes on, humans

today are probably the most feeble

version of humans that have ever

existed.

>> Oh, for sure. Yeah. And we're we're the

most feeble versions of people that have

existed within the last century, right?

Like if you go back to humans from the

1920s versus humans from the 2020s,

people have way less testosterone now,

way or higher instances of miscarriages,

way lower sperm count. You know, there's

a lot of factors that are at play right

now that are changing what a human is.

And if you extrapolate, if you look at

the future, you would naturally say,

well, we're probably going to be very

thin. It seems like there's at least

some sort of a push to eliminate gender.

Like gender seems like it's on the table

is whether or not it's even necessary.

There's all sorts of new technological

innovations that are leading to the

possibility at least sometime in the

future of an artificial womb. Mhm.

>> Um there's genetic engineering with

crisper and a lot of other different

technologies that are being explored

that we might be able to engineer human

beings and then even create a complete

individual human being without a mother,

without a father. So if you thought

about what that looks like in the

future, like one of our problems on in

this planet is we all have different

ideologies, different religions, come

from different parts of the world. We

look different and human beings as

tribal primates have a tendency to

other. We other different tribes. Those

are not us. We are us. Those are the

enemy. We go out.

>> You rally around it.

>> But if everybody's exactly the same and

we share one mind,

>> you know, then a lot of our problems go

away. If we no longer have to compete

for resources, we no longer have the

desire to procreate and to acquire land

and to be, you know, to have

a territory, we we eliminate a lot of

our issues. And that's what these things

look like. When you look at the

archetypal these I iconic sort of shapes

that have been on cave walls all the way

up to close encounters with the third

kind. One thing they share is that they

have no muscle. They have large heads.

They have big eyes

>> and they're childlike. They're very

pomorphic as we say.

>> Yeah. You just tied together like a lot

of really important points um related to

this theory. uh aspects of why they're

always interested in our gametes, why

they come back and put that little

machine on a man to collect semen, why

they're constantly taking eggs from

females and implanting fetuses, pulling

them back out later. Like, they're

clearly focused on reproduction, game

extraction. And one of the things that

might be fueling that in the future, if

these are future humans, let's just

assume for a second hypothetically, is

that they might be having problems

directly resulting from these trends

toward self-domemestication, these

trends toward feminization, these trends

toward reduced sperm counts, which is

60% across most populations of the world

in the industrialized world, 50% across

the entire world. Um, yeah, problems

with reproduction, uh, in vitro

fertilization, exogenesis chambers might

help solve some of those problems,

growing the the fetus outside of the

body. So, so yeah, and and like you

said, you know, what do they look like?

They look like kind of a

a hybrid between males and females to

some extent, but they're still an

essence of gender. Like if you talk to

Whitley Strieber, you know, he's with

this bean, he he says in communion that

I had a sense that she was a woman. I

don't know why, but I kind of sensed

that. So, it's almost like the the

essence of the individual, the soul of

the individual still retains that sort

of gender identity even though our

bodies are becoming more childlike, more

gender indiscriminate. Uh, I don't know.

But yeah, yet another one of those ways

in which we might sort of grow together

as a species.

>> Now, when you say they are extracting

sperm, like how many of these stories do

you

take seriously. There's a lot of these

stories.

>> It's a great question. Yeah.

>> You know, there's unfortunately for any

sort of spectacular

public thing that's in the zeitgeist

like alien abduction, whether it's

Whitley Strieber from Communion or the

John Mack books, uh the guy from Harvard

that wrote um what was it? Abduction,

>> Passport to the Cosmos and Abduction.

Yeah, two great books.

>> Great books. But these are all books

about encounters, close encounters of

the third kind with some sort of a being

from another place. Whatever it is, it's

just not a human being. And it seems to

be techn technologically at least

superior to us. And it seems to be one

thing they all seem to share is they

seem to be able to communicate

telekinetically or telepathically.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And I mean they they aren't human,

but they are very human too. So for

instance like that that's one of the

main reasons I started exploring this. I

was actually kind of put into this when

I was eight or nine years old. Sort of

activated in a way and put on this path

by a weird thing that happened to me

when I was you.

>> Well so I talk about it in my first two

books Identified flying objects and the

extraterrestrial model where my I

learned about um a close encounter that

my dad had. who's a veterinarian in

northeast Ohio where I grew up and he

was out one night on a call uh with

another guy. So there's two people as

far as jail and reliability scale has

more reliability because there's

multiple witnesses. It's also strange on

his scale because they crested the hill.

There's a bright light. This is Amish

country. There's no lights in Amish

country. And all of a sudden, this

bright light darts toward them, hovers

just above their truck, darts back to

where it was, and straight up into space

like incredible speed. So, this happened

before I was born, but I overheard him

telling a story to some friends one

night. He got Whitley Striber's book,

Communion, as most people did in the

1980s, and as they should, because it's

a great book. And I walked into the

living room. The book is sitting on the

shelf facing out. And I remember like it

was yesterday. I sort of stopped and

there was like this light like a white

light and then I saw this image in my

mind of like uh an early homin and

chimpanzeee like creature a modern human

and then that archetypal gray alien from

the cover with this information what if

they're related what if they are us from

the future and obviously I mean that's

why I became a biological anthropologist

people are always like so

>> you saw this

>> yeah it was like a a flash like a light

and I you know It's weird looking back

on it because I know a lot more about

these experiences. I've talked to people

that have had these types of

experiences.

>> What was the setting?

>> It was our living room. So, it was like

the you come in the front door and just

to the left there's this living room,

built-in bookshelf, Willy's books right

there. I just turned the corner, saw it,

and then like

just kind of it just came. Like I didn't

know [ __ ] about evolutionary biology. I

didn't

>> saw it. saw it how

>> in my mind just this white light

>> just an image

>> and those that image of the three faces

and then the question could they be us

from the future

>> and a lot of people are like how'd you

get into UFOs like you're you're a

biological anthropologist it's the

opposite I got into biological

anthropology to research this question

of whether they could be us from the

future

>> huh

so so this you you felt like at that

moment it wasn't just like a a weird

thought or a dream. It felt like a

message like what did it feel like?

>> Yeah. Yeah. It it was some it was a

tasking, you know. I I think Rupert

Sheldrake said it that that people don't

have ideas. Ideas have people.

>> I think that was like the hey, go do

this thing.

>> And I did. That's why we're here now

[laughter] talking about it.

>> And obviously, you know, you got to be

careful about like selection bias and

confirmation bias. Like I didn't go into

this. I didn't go into grad school. I

also didn't tell anybody in grad school

I was there cuz they would have kicked

me out. Um, but I went into it with an

open mind. But I was there to study

these things because of that event when

I was 8 years old.

>> Wow.

Yeah, it's it is a problem the

confirmation bias. It is a problem with

>> wanting it to be real. And I struggle

with that because I desperately want it

to be real. And so every time I talk to

someone, you know, I've talked to a

bunch of people that are, you know, air

quote whistleblowers. And some of them,

I think, for sure, have been sent in

here to distribute this information.

>> Yeah. No doubt.

>> For sure. Because it's a great place to

do it.

>> Yeah.

>> I'll listen to you. I'll entertain

almost anything,

>> which is great. We need that. Yeah.

>> You know, but yeah, I mean, obviously

there's people that are going to take

advantage of it.

>> But I think it's also important for me

to say I'm not convinced. I you know I

don't know how much of this is horseshit

but it's not zero.

>> No and that was your question is how how

do I

>> differentiate among these different

cases.

>> Um I do draw from Heinik's in his book

the UFO experience. He lists out how we

all should approach this based on the

reliability scale and the stranges

scale. Um, Jacques Valet also drew from

that, helped him develop it as part of

the invisible college and all of his

work. But regardless of like my own

personal discernment, my second book,

the extraterrestrial model, is about 30

case studies, 15 main case studies, but

then I pull in other ones and it

explores the different theories.

Obviously the main one being this extra

tempestrial idea, this future, which by

the way, I saw the word of the day today

was anacronistic. And I was like, man,

that would have been a way better word

than extra tempest, which everybody

struggles with. I could have called them

anacronauts.

>> Oo,

>> doesn't that sound cool?

>> That does sound cool.

>> Anacronauts.

>> Oo, that sounds really cool.

>> I know. What the hell was I thinking,

man?

>> Anyway, live you learn. But so one of

the most commonly reported things across

all cases, regardless of whether you

think it's [ __ ] or you think this

definitely happened, is they really want

our sperm.

>> They really need or want our

reproductive material, our gametes. And

it's funny cuz I when I wrote my first

book in 20 I started in 2012, published

it in 2019. Right at the end I did an

interview and somebody's like, "Have you

heard of Jim Penniston?" I'm like, "No."

Which is kind of a failing on my behalf.

I'll admit that one. Uh it turns out so

it was the Rend Rendlessham Forest

incident. He touched this craft. He got

this binary code and he uh when

deciphering the binary code, they

legitimately specifically said, "We are

you from the future. We're having

problems with reproduction." He

underwent hypnotic regression. We're

having problems with reproduction and we

need this genetic material to help

ourselves. You know, a lot of people are

like, "Well, why are they coming back

and doing stuff to us?" I think they're

coming back and getting stuff from us

because of problems they're having

largely related to what you were talking

about earlier with um the reduced sperm

counts, the problems with female

infertility. What if we do try to create

the perfect human specimen or we try to

cure these genetic diseases through

genetic manipulation crisper and we

screw something up? We might have to

come back. We can't go to another

planet. There aren't people on these

planets. We can't go and sample gametes

from these other places. We might have

to go into our past to get those wild

type un uh unmanipulated gameamtes in

order to fix these problems.

>> God, that's that's a crazy level of

technological sophistication. The

ability to venture back in time and

somehow or another not [ __ ] up the

timeline that's leading to I mean, this

is the problem that's always been

theorized about time travel. anything

that you do if you went back in time any

interactions you would completely change

how the future would play out

>> in the many worlds interpretation. Yeah.

>> So that idea is unfortunately very

pervasive and mostly because of back to

the future which I think ruined the

brains of most people mine too certainly

in my my my generation. Um but what most

phys and physicists don't agree on many

things but most agree that we live in

what's called a block universe landscape

time block time where if you imagine all

moments from the very beginning of the

big bang to the end of the universe

where all matter disappear appears into

like a black hole or contracts or

whatever it does. All moments are

already there. They exist as this

massive four-dimensional block of all

moments, all world lines, everything. So

you go back into the past as you

perceive it. You can do whatever you

want. You can walk around, step on

butterflies, you know, slap people on

the face, kick over, you know, dinosaurs

or whatever. I don't think we can go

back that far, but you could do anything

you want. And it doesn't change anything

because you're going back in the block

universe and doing those things you were

always already going to do. And when you

get home, everything's the same because

that was already their past. To

everybody that stayed behind, that was

already their past. It was only the

future for you to go back and do those

things that you were already going to do

and then you just went and did them, get

home, everything's the same because you

were always going to do those things in

the first place.

>> That's bizarre. That's hard to swallow.

>> If that is the actual model of the

universe, and again, I can only work in

writing these books, I can only work

from what we know now. Clearly, there's

a lot of things we don't know. I'm not

claiming [clears throat] to know

anything beyond what we can know right

now. But physicists despite not knowing

what time is. They know it's an emergent

phenomenon. There's something more

fundamental that time comes from. But

they do agree on this block universe

model. And in that case, there is no

paradox.

>> How do they all agree on that? Like

wouldn't you have to test that and come

up with some sort of a a hypothesis and

then try to prove it or disprove it?

>> Right. I shouldn't say they all agree

cuz there is the many worlds

interpretation of quantum mechanics

where if you went back in that situation

it would be change. You would be

changing the timeline. Would it be

changing your timeline or would it be

changing a different timeline is the

question.

>> And how would you know there there's

more paradoxes with changing things than

not changing things.

>> Why do you confidently state that you

don't think that they can go back to the

dinosaur age?

um

partly because

three different reasons. One um I think

they need tremendously high speed in

order to be able to go back into the

past. Um so basically again working from

all I can work from in this time with

the limited primitive primate knowledge

that I have in the year 2012 to 2025.

Um I basically just started with

Einstein's theory of relativity which he

published in 1905 on the electronamics

of moving bodies and then in 1915 he

published his paper on general

relativity. From that point on, almost

instantly, there were solutions to his

field equations that showed with the

right parameters of a massively

highly uh energetic rotating ring or

sphere or disc that you could create

closed timelight curves that you could

actually orient light cones back toward

the past. So you can physically go into

the past. We saw this with Lens and

Thurine in like 1917 and 18. Kirk Odell

>> Godell universe was not long after in I

think the 20s maybe

>> and then importantly in 1970s you had

Frank Tipler uh who showed

mathematically that you can shrink that

down to a disc he actually called it a

disc one of the reasons I think that

these are time machines is because it

has all of the parameters described by

Frank Tipler he wasn't talking about

UFOs but it they seemingly have the

ability to jump in and out of time they

appear and disappear and I'm talking too

much so I'll wrap this up in a second,

but

>> you're definitely not talking too much.

>> Well, I mean, we're here to talk, but I

I have an internal trigger where I'm

like, "Shut up, masters. You're talking

too much."

>> Don't listen to that trigger. Let it

roll. [clears throat]

>> So, anyway, you know, if you look at the

history of how we understand backward

time travel. What I think they're doing

is that I think they're combining

general relativity and special

relativity. So, I think they're

orienting the light cones toward the

past by rotating these things really,

really fast. You hear that all the time.

They power up, they're spinning, or at

least there's some sort of flywheel on

the outside that's spinning. I think

that's what's allowing them to move

toward the past and then they take off.

So, it's that high speed that I think

allows them to go further into the past.

So, they're using, you're aware of the

twins paradox, I'm sure.

um time deation where you have two

twins, they're the same age, and then

one goes into a spaceship, they move at

tremendously high speed, they come back,

and they're much younger than their twin

because time moved faster back on Earth.

I think they're using that high-speed

motion while light cones are oriented

toward the past in order to travel

deeper into the past through that

process of time deation. There are

limits to how fast we can go. Einstein

was very adamant about this because

there's an increase in inertial forces

the faster you go relative to the speed

of light. That's why he thought we could

never go that's why he thought that

anything with mass could never go faster

than the speed of light. Light can do it

because it's a wave or a particle or

both. Um so I think there's a a limit to

how fast we can go. The other reason is

because Jim Penniston in this hypnotic

regression said that he's like we can

only go 40 to 60,000 years into the past

or we might not get back.

>> You also have and this is a more

speculative one so take it for what it's

worth. You also have the Dan Burish

testimony of this JRod, this allegedly

captured alien who said we're from the

future. We are you from the future and

we're from about 55 to 60,000 years in

your future. So those three things

together are why I don't think we could

go back 65 million years to hunt

dinosaurs, which actually would be kind

of fun.

>> When you when talking about going the

speed of light, you're talking about not

traditional propulsion, but some form of

propulsion that allows you to go at

insane speeds.

>> Yeah. Electromagnetic is what it seems

to be. Um, and and importantly, the

electromagnetic force is 10 to the 40

times more powerful than gravity. So,

not only do I think that's what they use

to fly, I think that's what they use to

manipulate space time. Actually, and Dan

Burrish is not Dan Burrish, uh, Dan

Farah, I think you just had him on, too.

The age of disclosure.

>> Yes.

>> There's this really cool thing at the

end where, uh, Hal Putoff and I think

Eric Davis as well, we're talking about

this space-time bubble, right? a really

weird thing happened. We can get to that

in a second, but I don't want to jump

around too much because I'll lose people

and myself probably. Um, but this

space-time bubble that they form around

the craft, I think is also indicative of

the fact that they're manipulating

spaceime, that they're traveling in and

out of time. They use it to hide in

plain sight. They manipulate the rate at

which they move relative to us in their

frame of reference. and they're moving

fast all around us and they've slowed

time down outside of that bubble. So

everything is really really slow to them

and they can easily evade our bullets

and our missiles, but we don't see them

because we don't have that frame rate of

perception.

>> And and if you slow videos down, I'm

sure you've seen these all the time

where there's like a and then you slow

it down and you can see this saucer

shaped craft moving slowly across the

sky once you slow down the frame rate.

Um, but a really funny thing happened

because I I've never actually talked

about this uh with anyone before. Um, I

owe a lot of the fact that anybody even

knows who I am to help put off.

He

uh when I first started talking about

this publicly in 2018 and then I

published my book in 2019, identified

flying objects, he um I guess reached

out to the head of MUON at the time who

was putting together the 50th

anniversary MUON event and was like,

"Hey, you should have this Mike Masters

guy come talk." And I found that out

from the head of Muon. He's like, "Hey,

just so you know, how put off of all

people recommended I contact you." I had

no idea who that is. So I get on the

internet, I Google I'll put off. Um he

also put Jesse Michaels, mutual friend,

uh in touch with me after I think he did

an interview with him and Weinstein uh I

forget his name.

>> Eric.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So he did an interview with those

two. I guess how was like, "Hey, you

should reach out to McMasters." And he

did and we talked and we've done stuff

together. But what was cool is that at

the end of that age of disclosure film

when he's talking about the space-time

bubble, I thought back to after my first

book came out and I was contacted by

someone who claimed to be an ex

intelligence person who explained that

exact same thing to me back in 2019 that

these things aren't doing 10,000g

maneuvers that would crush anything

inside to them. in their frame of

reference, what they feel is completely

different than what we see. Because in

that space-time bubble, they can be

moving at 50,000 miles an hour, do a

right-hand turn, and it would splatter

anything inside because of the G-forces.

That's what we see on the outside, but

in that space-time bubble, they probably

feel one, two G's at the most. So, I

started thinking, man, was that Hal? did

how reach out to me with like uh a

different email address and say, "Hey,

just so you know, this is how these

things are happening. This is how

they're able to do it." And I was a

dumbass. I still am a dumbass, but I was

an extra big dumbass back then. And I

was like, "Oh, cool. Thanks, man." You

know, like a a story went viral about my

books and Fox News picked it up and

space.com. And so I was going through a

bunch of emails. They recognized I

wasn't getting what they were saying. I

was not picking up what they were

putting down. and they were like, "No,

this is important." Said it again and

then it clicked. I was like, "Oh, yeah,

that makes perfect sense."

>> They're manipulating the rate at which

time passes in this bubble around the

craft and we see something completely

different.

>> So, when we're seeing this, we are

imagining what we can do and we're sort

of saying, well, what would be an

advanced version of what we can do? And

what this technology is is something

that's levels of magnitude beyond even

our theoretical

like any sort of idea that we have

currently about you know potential

future timelines of technology.

>> Yeah.

>> There there's no one talking about

gravity bubbles that allow you to

instantaneously traverse immense gaps in

the universe. Well, they might be

talking about buying closed doors at

Wright Patterson Air Force Base,

>> right?

>> And have been for 70 years.

>> I think that's the real problem with

disclosure. Like, how how much progress

could we have made if they had opened up

all this stuff?

>> And and you got to imagine if you were

an intelligent life form from another

planet. You know, Diana Pulka talked

about uh her and Gary Nolan talked about

how they refer to some of these things

as donations. Mhm.

>> They don't think of them as crashed

vehicles because some of them are not

crashed. They're completely intact. And

>> I think David Rush said that too, didn't

he?

>> Yeah, I believe he did.

>> Yeah.

>> And even, you know, Lazar when when he

was talking about it, he, you know, he

>> Yeah. The sports model, wasn't that

fully intact, too?

>> Fully intact. Yeah. Fully intact and

operational. And apparently they flew it

around.

>> No kidding. That'd be fun.

>> Well, that was one of the reasons, you

know, the whole story how he got caught.

It's a really crazy story. So, uh, he

used to work at Los Alamos. He was a

propulsions expert. Guy put a jet engine

on the back of a Honda. He was a real

freak, you know, made a hydrogen

Corvette in like the 1990s. He was nutty

dude.

>> Clearly an engineer. Yes, that part

checks out.

>> Um, so he uh gets his job on Area S4 and

um goes there and this is all documented

in Jeremy Corbell's uh excellent movie

uh Bob Lazar, Area 51, Flying Saucers.

So he goes there and sees this thing and

it's got a American flag sticker on it

and you know they they basically say

tell us how it works and he's like oh

this is ours cuz he sees it has a

sticker on it

>> and then he realizes this is made out of

some completely unknown alloy. There's

no seams in it. It seems to be 3D

printed. There's no controls inside of

it. It's designed for something that's

three feet tall. It's all very [ __ ]

weird. Um so he's working on this thing

not making much headway at all. They

they understood that there was an

element element 115

>> that was uh not even on the periodic

table. Uh eventually found to actually

be a thing by the large hydron collider.

Um but even then they only measured it

for a millisecond. Right? So then he's

saying that they have this stable

version of this element and you bombard

it with radiation creates this sort of

gravity drive. Um he's working on this

thing and it's all top secret so he

cannot tell his wife. So they're calling

him up at 10:00 like hey get to the

place the uh airport uh we need you. And

so he would have to fly out at random

times fly out to S4. And his wife was

like this motherfucker's having an

affair. Well I'm going to have an affair

too. So, she starts [ __ ] her flight

attendant or a flight instructor.

>> I think that's what it was. Um,

>> when you have that kind of clearance,

they are monitoring everything. They're

monitoring all your phone calls. They're

they're listen. So, they've realized

that his wife is having an affair and

they think that he will be emotionally

unstable and it's too dangerous to have

him working on this insanely top secret

information if he's not stable. So, they

they tell him, you know, we're going to

at least temporarily relieve you of your

duties. So he's freaked out and he tells

his friends like, "Hey, this this is

this is what they're doing there. They

have these things and they fly them

every Wednesday. I'm gonna take you

guys. There's an area we can go watch."

So they take he takes his friends out

there on two separate occasions, I

believe. Um they get caught. They get

caught, gets arrested. Uh they release

him and he realizes like, "I'm kind of

[ __ ] They might kill me. I'm going to

have to go public with this." Contacts

George Knap.

>> George, I did see that.

>> Then the whole thing is history.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, that's wild, man. And I

I think and it's still happening. You

know, there's still these

whistleblowers.

>> He says they they used to fly them and

you could go watch them fly these things

and they were moving in these really

weird ways across the sky that you

cannot do with conventional aircraft

>> that they only sort of understood how to

like pick it up and put it down. They

didn't understand how to like really

>> That was out at Groom Lake, right?

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. I remember as a kid I I've been

obviously been into this for a long

time. I remember as a kid seeing videos

of people going out and then they

eventually closed it down. You couldn't

get to that spot. But there was like

>> that was during the Obama

administration. During the Obama

administration they actually had to

admit that Area 51 was real cuz before

that they didn't no one even knew it was

real. I mean that was always just a joke

like Area 51 was like for fun but then

they said no it is real and we need to

expand the forbidden boundary.

>> Yeah. And isn't isn't that when people

were going to like bum rush it too? Is

that when that happened?

>> That was during co Okay. During co there

was a bunch of dorks that like we're

going to crash Area 51. That's a good

way to die. They'll [ __ ] kill you.

>> Hey, natural selection.

>> Yeah, they're working on a lot of stuff

out there and some of it is weapons,

>> right?

>> They can't have you uh internet dorks

from Reddit just running out into Area

51.

>> Yeah, I think they eventually realized

that cuz I don't think they went out

there, but it could have been bad.

>> I think it was all [ __ ] They

weren't gonna What are you gonna do? How

you going to get out there?

>> Engagement farming.

>> Yeah, man. There's a lot of crazy [ __ ]

that's been going on. It's been going on

for a while. Um Jamie and I were talking

beforehand about the stove piping, too.

You know, all the Yeah. the different

ways that they compartmentalize what

they're doing. And they talked about it

in Age of Disclosure, too. It's a big

problem because

>> certain people are working on these

parts of the craft to reverse engineer

them to understand them, but they don't

have the whole picture.

>> Lazar was talking about that from the

1980s. Yeah. In 1989, he said the the

people that are working on metallurgy

were not in contact with the people that

are working on propulsion. And you

weren't He's like, "Science cannot

operate like that."

>> Yeah. No, it can't because you need to

know what's going on beyond just this

little part that you're working on.

>> And if you have a bunch of people that

are sharing information, you get a much

more comprehensive understanding of what

this thing is.

>> Yeah. We all benefit from communication,

>> right? Because there could be something

involved in the actual structure of it

that lends to its ability to do

something. It might not be simply just

structure. It might be structure with

some sort of an ability.

>> Yeah. You can't see the forest through

the trees in these situations. And and

it's unfortunate. And what the argument

they made in this this DACA is that

we're putting ourselves at a

disadvantage because other countries

have probably retrieved these things

too. And they might be working on it.

Yes. In secrecy, but if people are

working together, right,

>> and not stovepiping this thing at

infinitum,

>> then they might be able to actually make

more progress faster than us. So part of

the disclosure push is to be like,

"Yeah, these things are real. We have

them. Let's get our best scientists

together to work on this holistically

instead of compartmentalizing

everything."

>> Well, just imagine if they had done that

from 1947, where we would be.

>> Exactly.

>> If that's real, if Roswell was real, if

all the crash was real, Philip Drake

Corso is correct and all these people

are telling the truth.

>> I know. And we still have to preface

these things with if if it's real, if

it's real. And and yeah, I I I I do the

same thing. I mean as coming from

academia when I wrote my first book I

had to be like if this is real but it's

hard it's this this paradox of sorts

because it how do you write to explain

something that isn't real you know

what's the point of even doing that?

>> Yeah.

>> Um so so I think we have to assume I'm

actually teaching a class at Montana

Tech this spring called UFOs History and

Science.

>> Oh I would take that if I was in school.

>> I think I think it's going to be a lot

of fun. I know. I'm pretty stoked about

it. And I had these artists design a

poster in Norway and the UK and just

this crazy like I was like how how

conservative should I be with this? Like

just a UFO and I gave him total artistic

freedom and there's like an alien

holding the earth and this UFO

[laughter] swing around. I'm like all

right, I guess that's what I'm doing.

Plastered it all over campus to recruit

people to take the class. But like I'm

going in on day one. We're not we're not

going to [ __ ] around with like are these

things real? We're not going to waste

time on that. We're going to jump in.

these are real. Here's what we're doing.

This is what we know. This is what we

don't know. Explore the theories.

Explore the history. Explore the

prehistory because it's it's a waste of

time. Like these things these things are

real.

>> You think they're real? I know.

>> What makes you convinced? [gasps]

>> Um

I have read enough accounts

in researching this and

from people that I know. I mean,

starting from when I was a kid, hearing

my biological father's account, you

know, the way he told it and then I

interviewed him again in college to try

to get more information cuz I was just

over hearing from the stairs when I was

supposed to be in bed. He saw what he

saw and then eventually I saw some UFOs.

>> What did you see?

>> I was kind of pissed actually cuz I

started talking about this in 2018 and

people were always like, "You ever seen

a UFO?" No, never seen a UFO. I'd like

to. And then finally in 2022,

uh it might have been late 2021. I don't

remember exactly when. It was kind of

warmish, so it was probably 2021, but I

I was everybody's in bed. I'm at my

house. I live in a canyon. And I was

having a whiskey. And I was like I just

walked up the canyon wall for some

reason, like the hill behind my house. I

don't really know why. I turned around

and I could see these five super bright

lights over what's known as the East

Ridge in But Montana. They were just

like sitting there right over the east

ridge. I was like, "Well, that's not

normal. Those aren't usually there." And

they weren't stars, you know? They're

way too big, way too close. I would say

they were probably within 8 to 5 to 8

miles. You know, they they were in the

distance, but they were like there. And

then I just kind of looked at them for a

second like, "Oh, that's weird." And

then one by one from right to left, they

just went

shot off toward the southeast at like

crazy speed. You know, like the the kind

of like in in Star Wars or Star Trek how

they hit Hyperdrive and there's that

that little light trail

>> like just one by one until they were all

gone.

>> That I have no conventional explanation

for that.

>> Wow.

>> But I've never been one of those people

that's like I need to see it to believe

it,

>> right?

>> Because I believe the people who say the

same thing over and over. There's

patterns that we can extract from

people's testaments who have had these

close encounters. And that's one

unfortunate thing that's happening right

now as we're talking about the pilots,

talking about police, but people have

been seeing these forever. But they did

such a good job manufacturing the stigma

around it with project sign, project

grudge, project blue book to discount

these people to make them seem insane.

You know, these that is one of the main

points of evidence that I would point to

that there is something. When people

think there isn't something, I'm like,

you should really pay attention to what

they were trying to do during Project

Boo Book.

>> Yeah.

>> Because one of I have a buddy of mine,

my friend Steve Graham. Shout out to

Steve. When he was a boy, he was living

in New York, uh, upstate New York, and

um, he filmed this red orb that was

flying across the sky and he took some

photographs of it. And, um, they called

someone, some officials somewhere, I

don't remember. He was, he was very

young. And um they said we are going to

analyze the photos and then we'll bring

them back to you.

>> And um they never returned the

photographs. When he called he said no

agents, there's no record of any agents

coming to visit you. We don't know what

to tell you.

>> So they just took his photos and that

was it. But he said whatever it was, you

know, he was young. I believe he was 10

or 11. And he said whatever it was was

really weird. He goes it was this red

orb that was flying through the sky. um

was a spacecraft. It wasn't a sun. It

wasn't a meteor. It it looked like it

was moving purposely and under control.

>> And um it was there long enough for him

to take a Polaroid of it.

>> Yeah. And um they just completely

erased any memory of it or any any

evidence of it. When he called, like I

said, they said there no agents

>> visited you. whatever the agents name

were. There was no agents by that name.

>> That's kind of the status quo.

>> Well, they tried to make you look like a

fool.

>> Absolutely. And that that was

intentional. Like the stated mission of

Project Grudge was to debunk these

things, come up with conventional

explanations, and make people seem like

idiots,

>> right? Not to investigate.

>> No, not at all.

>> The the purpose wasn't let's get to the

bottom of this, find out, is this

Russia? Is Russia doing this? That was

not the purpose. The purpose was make

these people look like fools. You only

do that if you know something that other

people don't.

>> Yeah.

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>> And it worked. It did a damn good job at

it cuz we still feel like fools talking

about this. Oh, yeah. And we still have

to check ourselves and be like, is this

real? If this is real, you know? But but

I I think that shame is starting to

diminish. I think the stigma is starting

to go away.

>> Well, I think the New York Times article

from 2017, that was a game changer.

>> That was a big one.

>> Yeah. And then from then on, it's been

this trickle. Mhm.

>> These guys like Ryan Graves and, you

know, guys like David Faver. These these

David Favorvers guys that was, you know,

he was

>> in a fighter jet saw this thing move

from 50,000 ft above sea level to sea

level in like less than a second.

>> Yeah.

>> And they saw this thing. There was

something under the water below it. It's

like whatever he saw. And if you ever

talked to him, have you ever talked to

him? I've talked to Alex Dietrich who

was with him during that.

>> He's a very reliable guy and very

intelligent by the book, very

disciplined. Not

>> I mean he was like a top gun pilot

[clears throat] like he was leading the

whole group, right?

>> Yeah. He's a commander. So and when he

describes it, it sounds very real. What

whatever he's talking about, he

experienced. I believe that. And there's

also video of it. There's video of it

flying. Um they have the radar data

radar data. They they know that it went

to their designated meetup point,

>> the cap point. Yeah.

>> Which is really weird.

>> It is. And it indicates they knew the

future or

>> they were part of our military. Right.

>> I kind of wonder if the tic tac be

because it is somewhat anomalous in the

context of a lot of things in the UFO

lore as far as spinning discs or big

triangular craft. This one kind of seems

like one of ours. Well, it is odd that

these things happen where there's a lot

of military training exercises. Like

this one was off the coast of San Diego.

It was off the Nimmits, you know. So,

the they had the the Nimmits which was

out there. Obviously, you got a lot of

military in San Diego.

>> The Roosevelt too, I think, is where

they were capturing the radar.

>> And the ones that Ryan Grave experienced

were all East Coast. Again, it's all

near military bases. It's all where they

do military training exercises.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And why not figure out what

you can do with people that you train

with already anyway,

>> right? You know,

>> and why not see like what is detectable

and what's not? You know, Ryan Graves

talked about how in 2014 they upgraded

all the sensors and the jets and then

all a sudden they started picking these

things up all over the place.

>> He said they were encountering them

virtually every time they went out,

>> which is so weird. Imagine you're

encountering

uh was it a a circle inside of a sphere

or a sphere inside of a circle?

>> I think it was a circle in a a sphere.

>> Yeah. Whatever it was.

>> Yeah.

>> Which one was it? Was it a circle and a

sphere?

>> It was I just saw a picture on Twitter

recently. It was a little circle

[snorts] and then a cube or something.

>> Very [ __ ] weird. Whatever that is.

And able to hover motionless in like 200

knots of wind.

>> Yeah. And it would make sense if we are

reverse engineering these. They're gonna

look pretty primitive. It's basically a

big propane tank that they're flying

around. Like they probably started

simple. It's probably unmanned, but

they're testing that capability to like

manipulate the spaceime to shoot off,

you know, cuz it dropped 10 80,000 ft

supposedly looks like a cube inside.

Yeah, I I can remember.

>> Apparently, my dyslexia extends to

images, too.

>> Explained using UFO patents. Click on

that.

Explained. A recent article by The Hill

has highlighted the reports of a Cuban

sphere UAP military pilots have been

seeing as reported by Graves where he

once again highlights how often our

pilots are seeing these things and why

he doesn't believe they are conventional

drones or balloons. And so this is uh

our obviously some sort of a

computerenerated rendition. Ah the

[ __ ] popup.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> Um but so

>> I mean yeah they didn't get a picture of

it but

>> but here's the patent. Scroll up a

little bit. Uh so a month ago I did a

deep dive on a post about UFO patents.

How magnetto hydrodnamic propulsion

systems could explain some of the

observations includes an expired patent

from the 1960s and a few newer patents

describing not only the propulsion but

how the plasma field can make the craft

invisible to radar. Huh.

Yeah.

I mean again it makes sense like if if

we have been reverse engineering these

for 70 years we would start bringing

them out. They would look weird. They

wouldn't necessarily look like the craft

that we struggled to fly at Groom Lake

that we could go up and down with and

that's about it. Like they would look

like this little thing that's simple.

It's basic. It's a propane tank or it's

a cube within a sphere. I probably had

that backwards again.

>> Um and then experiment with it. See what

you can do. And a lot of people make the

argument, why would they do that? It's

dangerous. You know what? If there was a

mid-air collision, if they are actually

manipulating spaceime in these things

like they seemingly are with the the

saucer shaped craft, you don't have to

worry about that. You know, you're

you're you're it's this isn't a cat-and-

mouse game where the cat and mouse are

equal. Like, you have complete control

of spaceime in and around that area.

You're not going to run into anybody.

They're all moving extremely slowly

relative to you. According to put off

and Davis at the end of that doco and

whoever reached out to me, whether it

was HAL or not, somebody reached out to

me and explained this same thing in

2019. And it makes a lot of damn sense.

And to kind of extend it into my area of

research, if you can manipulate space

and time in and around this craft,

what's keeping you from using that to

travel through time?

>> I guess I mean, but again, that's with

the the different model, not the

multi-orlds model, but the what was the

other model that you described?

>> Block universe.

>> Block universe model.

>> Universe theory.

>> Yeah. Um,

the idea that they would be so advanced

that they could genetically engineer a

body and get to whatever state they are

at where they communicate

telepathically, but yet they can't solve

the problem of old DNA like needing

what what do they need genetic

diversity? Like what is it? What are

they trying to get out of us? Are they

trying to get the source source material

>> instead of the old stuff or instead of

the stuff that they've had forever?

>> One of the arguments I made in my first

and second books is that really since

European colonialism starting about 500

years ago, we are all becoming one

interbreeding population. So it used to

be that you had different isolated

populations and then occasionally there

would be gene flow that introduces new

genes. If we all are just one population

on this inbred island of Earth, where

are you going to get new gene variants?

And then you combine that with uh the

things we just talked about with the

potential for things to go wrong with

trying to make designer babies or, you

know, the trends toward reduced

fertility in men and women. And

importantly,

the potential that there could be some

massive cataclysm that puts us into a

huge bottleneck where there just is no

genetic diversity at all.

>> Like if you think about something that

happened that wiped out a huge

percentage of the population and there

are warnings about this over and over

again with experiencers and contacties,

they're like, there's some cataclysmic

thing coming. If that were to happen,

all of those problems we're already

having, all of the trends that are

already leading to us having problems

with fertility in the future will be

hugely exacerbated by a very limited

gene pool.

>> Well, we know that human beings have

gotten down to a very small population

in the past. Yeah.

>> So, we are

>> So, we're already kind of limited.

>> Yeah.

>> In our diversity.

>> What do you think of the theory that

human beings have been genetically

engineered?

Man, when I first started in all this, I

wouldn't touch that one cuz I had to

impose some restrictions on myself so I

didn't seem like a crazy person

>> and keep your academic standing.

[laughter]

>> I don't really care anymore to be

honest.

>> Well, you sold a few books.

>> Yeah, I sold some books. I mean, that's

the thing is like I I do have the

respect of my peers, you know, like

>> it's not a career killer anymore.

>> No, exactly. You know, I back in 2018, I

was kind of rolling the dice. So, I was

really nervous about it. I went to the

chair of my department and was like,

"Hey, just so you know, in case there's

any push back and publishing this book

about whether, you know, UFOs are future

humans." And he looked at me and cocked

his head and he's like, "That's our job.

That's what we're supposed to be doing,

asking questions like that." Like, he

was he was all pissed off like, "Why are

you even asking me this or telling me

this, you know?"

>> Well, that's a cool guy to work for.

>> I was like, "Sweet. All right. Well,

check. I got one [laughter] I got one on

board at least." Um but I was really

conservative in this approach like the

dean actually of of my college who gave

me an award for um scholarship and

researchers and there's a lot of amazing

researchers at Montana Technological

University like we're very well known

for research and scholarship. She gave

me an award in 2022 for research and

scholarship and all I was doing at that

point was UFO stuff. You know, that was

kind of a nod too.

>> But she was telling me the other day in

a meeting cuz I'm the chair of the

department, uh, unfortunately.

>> And she was like, "Oh, your your

dissertation book." Because I did kind

of write my first book as a

dissertation. It's very scientific. It's

very dense. It's very technical. But I

needed to do that

>> because of the stigma, you know, because

of the shame. And you're right, it is

changing, which is great. But there are