Ari Emanuel is a true business and

entertainment renaissance man. I just

don't think there's anyone else like him

in the world. He was able to transition

from having a really hard time as a kid

growing up dyslexic.

>> I was in special ed. There can't be more

embarrassment than that. Like so

anything now I'm not I don't give a

[ __ ] Like you can't embarrass me. to

getting activated in the mail room at

CIA all the way to being one of the

greatest agents, the inspiration for Ari

Gold on Entourage to becoming a

successful entrepreneur, owning and

running sports leagues like the UFC and

the WWE, many, many more that we get

into in this conversation.

>> You got to overcommunicate. If they're

not getting back to you, you got to keep

on calling them. Like, what are you

doing? Like, that's the job. his simple

thesis that live is the antidote to AI

risk, that AI and technology can never

disrupt live and actually makes it way

more valuable.

>> I'm having my dinner with Elon and we're

talking about AI. He said this to me. He

goes, "Live cannot be disrupted." I

said, "Okay,

I have two ears."

>> This is one, if you're listening right

now, I would encourage you to stop and

watch. This is someone that you can feel

their physical presence in a distinctive

way. But who the [ __ ] wants to be

normal? like normal sucks, right?

>> Both he directly and everyone that works

with him all day long is just moving

through stuff with a velocity and a pace

and an urgency that is rare or singular.

So, I hope you enjoyed this awesome

conversation with Arya Emanuel.

We're going to UFC tomorrow night.

>> Yes.

>> I've never seen it and I've never been

to an event, but it has captured

everyone's imagination. It's this

amazing business. I think you bought it

in 2016. Can you just explain the magic

of this business?

>> When I started, I represented the WWE.

>> Yeah.

>> And I represented the UFC and I when I

signed the UFC, it was on Spike. You

know, we had a whole division inside the

company looking at ratings and all a

sudden they came and they showed me

here's this thing on Spike and here's

the numbers. And then I realized like

wow this thing's ratings are starting to

move. So I figured out, oh, it's Dana

White and the Fetitas and I represented

the WWE and they're close enough and you

know, so I called them

>> Dana.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And eventually I got a meeting and I

completely screwed up the meeting. You

know, I was talking about the WWE, you

know, it was just bad. It was one of my

worst signing meetings. And um I just

kept at it cuz I knew based on their

ratings and what they were getting as a

license fee, a domestic license fee, it

wasn't enough money. And I knew if I got

my hands on it, I could do some stuff

with it just as a representative. And so

eventually after doing a couple things,

he signed with me. The the organization

signed with me. And we took they were

making $15 million a year from Spike.

And I think the first deal I made at

Spike was um I increased it to 75

something like that. And we made a video

game deal which they had never had. You

know, after 20 years it you know was we

moved it to Fox for $150 million.

>> Good growth rate so far.

>> Yeah. We've we've done well. And then my

life changed because Silver Lake came

into my life. We started buying

companies. We bought IMG and we had

started building an infrastructure

because of IMG. They had sports and

events an infrastructure to whether it

be licensing, distribution, production,

a lot of things that companies needed on

a global basis, not just a domestic

basis. And then the fetitas decided they

wanted to sell

and a little before that we had bought

PBR the professional bull riding had

started turning that thing around.

Silver Lake Egon my partner Egon Durban

realized you know we had we do more

negotiations

at on the domestic side broadcasting for

TV shows and movies than kind of almost

anybody else like you could handle and

we had already done it for other people.

You could handle a sports if you owned

it. And I concluded where the world was

going. I was kind of talking about it's

going to go to streaming.

Sport's going to be important. It was on

cable. It's going to move there because

they're going to for Avod and

everything. So we buy it. Now at the

time when we bought IMG, the closest

bidder I think was churning at 1.9

billion. We we paid 2.4. Everybody

thought it was the highest price ever

paid. When we bought UFC on the current

trajectory, it was 20 times.

>> If I made the proper domestic deal, I

could take take the leverage down. And I

thought I just did the math,

you know, here's how much they need it

because of here's how much programming

and then here's how because F remember

at the time Fox owned these RSNs,

the regional players, and they had just

>> the spokes off the library. When I said

they have to pay, here's a normal

increase. Not like the rest of your

people that sit in this chair when you

ask them how they do their analysis. Cut

to we buy it. People think we're crazy.

And then

the world blows up. Rupert decides to

sell to Disney. Those two people are not

bidding. Comcast didn't want it. Warers

didn't want it. And Paramount had not

decided what they were going to be.

>> Right.

>> So now I'm looking at myself. Can we

swear on this? Of course.

>> Yeah. We're [ __ ] Right. I mean, I got

no biders.

>> Yeah.

>> And my contract's coming up in a year.

So, we go back to Fox

signs what they were going to have

remaining and say, "You should buy

this." Lachlan didn't want to do it for

his point of view. I think it was like

three or four months into close into our

deal coming off Fox, ESPN

fires John Skipper, who was always

shining me on that he wanted it. He

never wanted it. Bob Iger

and Kevin Mayor

say we want it because we're going to go

direct on ESPN

and we make a deal. You're you're coming

on Saturday to the pay-per-views,

>> which we have stopped now since we're

going to Paramount and and we have these

kind of just normal fights every

weekend.

>> Um, our fight nights. So, I I did my

job. It was emotionally trying, but we

got it done. And what then happened,

which was incredible, was um and

horrible all at once. Co happens,

>> right?

>> World shuts down.

>> You went to the Middle East, right?

>> Dana goes, "We're putting the fights on.

I said, "I got your back." He goes, "Get

me an island."

I call my partners in the Middle East in

Abu Dhabi and um Calun who owns um Man

City

>> and I said, "We need an island and we

need planes and we need testing

everything and

>> because there's not going to be no, we

need this and

he says yes."

>> And so we bring fighters in from Europe.

We bring fighters in from United States.

We test. Everybody's isolated for two

weeks and we we spent like two months I

think maybe three months there.

>> And no one else is doing anything.

>> No. No sports on.

>> Yeah.

>> And it blows up.

>> How much of an inflection was that in

audience size?

>> Oh, I mean our pay-per-views were

getting like a million views. I mean, it

was it was insane.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz there was no sports on zero.

>> I don't know if you remember that

period. It was like nothing.

>> Yeah. There's literally nothing. And the

two sports that we that we were the

first two up, the UFC and PBR.

>> Mhm.

>> And we had a whole document on our

testing. We did a whole

>> It was crazy.

>> If I boil down your whole life, is it is

it make [ __ ] happen over and over and

over and over relentlessly?

>> Relentlessly

not saying not taking no. Yeah. But I

think that's most successful people.

>> How are you so good at that? You you

have a very distinctive style of being

extremely good at that. How did that

develop? Well, when you have two older

brothers that are really good at their

job and a mother that and a father that

um you know just push you.

>> Yeah.

>> And there's many good things to dyslexia

and any parent that has a dyslexic

child, I will tell you it does get

better if you hang in there. I don't get

embarrassed easily. I'm not somebody

saying no, who cares? I just keep on

>> trying trying to open more doors. And so

those elements in my life, my mom, my

brothers, competition, I'm competitive

with myself,

>> very.

>> What's that feel like?

>> Horrible.

>> You know, it's exhausting. Um, but it's

gotten better over, you know,

>> but but what is it like internally? Are

you literally waking up like yourself?

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Every day.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

there's, you know, there's that clock.

There's that voice

>> kind of ticking off all the things you

got to do and playing the chess match.

And I mean, one of the things that Jeff

Bezos said to me, it was so good. It

really did help me. He said, "You have

to at your age, Ari, now

>> know when you're on the field and know

when you're off the field." The problem

in the past, it was helpful to a point,

but you can't get really successful. I

was always on the field.

>> Always. defined as what?

>> Meaning I was always playing chess in

any conversation.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Thinking of the angle, working the

situation. And sometimes,

>> you know, it should just be

>> just chill out.

>> Chill the [ __ ] out, right?

>> And um I never realized that, you know,

and he kind of many things helped me,

but that little conversation

like was like, you know, he's actually

right. And it actually makes when you're

on the field

>> better

>> better.

>> And I didn't I wasn't mature enough to

realize that until somebody slapped me

in the face.

>> And being off the field for you means

what?

>> Well, like in any conversation, I'm not

>> You're not calculating for

>> I'm not calculating out

>> all the different things. I'm not It's

not It can just be a good conversation.

I'm curious. So, I read a ton. I read a

ton of articles. I tell my office I want

to talk to that person. I want to talk

to that person. You know, I'm I'm on the

field a lot. Yeah. But there's sometimes

like chill. Exactly. Chill the [ __ ] out.

You know, you don't have to be on the

field.

>> What about wrestling? What did

wrestling? How good were you at

wrestling? What made you What was your

style? What did it teach you?

>> You know what it it does do? Wrestling?

And I think um like MMA and when you're

in high school and you have to go from

my size now to 132 pounds, easier when

you're younger

>> and you have to starve yourself plus

work out and go to school and the the

mental fortitude of that just keeps on

going in your life that you can handle

that emotional pain. And that's also in

business, you know, when we talk about

like I can handle a lot of emotional

pain. And I think one of the hardest

things now for kids, which I hope I I

teach my kids, is that emotional

endurance that you need in life right

now

is even more, you know, it's more

challenging, I think, business just

because business is no longer binary.

It's multi multi-layered. You have to

realize sometimes you have to have a

relationship with somebody even though

there's things in that relationship you

don't like to right and I don't think

that was in the past in business you had

to think through all those things. So

and it's just emotionally draining right

now because there's so many things going

on. So

>> what was the most extreme emotional pain

you ever felt in business?

>> This situation with

>> the one the contract thing

>> with the UFC.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz you know I put all the chips in the

middle four$4.2 billion in the middle.

clients were investing. Yeah,

>> my biggest investor is investing.

>> I had done the calculation like here's I

didn't see that RERT was going to sell

and and we're coming to the end

contract's four months away. Because of

that, my thyroid went on the fritz. It

was so much pressure. I'd never had that

physical like physical actually. I went

down to 142 pounds.

>> Holy [ __ ]

>> Yeah. Dana talks about this like all

gray hair and emaciated sweating. I

mean, it was horrible. And finally, I

went to the doctor and he goes, "You

know, your your thyroid's [ __ ]

at going at a rate." And so that was

hard.

>> But once it got done,

everything came back and kind of calmed

down. No longer was on the field all the

time. What does the power dynamic feel

like today around content, those that

own it and the places that it could be

distributed

versus the past of that same power?

>> In the past, they couldn't own the the

the owners of distribution couldn't own

the whole

>> right

>> thing. Now with cable gone and broadcast

not gone but in decline. We just talked

about is it gonna be Warner Brothers

with Netflix or is it going to be

Paramount? You know there's not a lot of

supply chain these guys are doing it and

they're doing it within each other's

boundaries. Sony's one of the suppliers.

There's some before there was a lot. You

know even before when I was in the

business you had tax incentives for

production. There's a company called

Whit Thomas and all these independents

used to supply they used to get tax

benefits and supply great programming

and it was an unbelievable business you

had syndication and that's how at the

beginning of my career we made all this

money you know television was a great

business you put a show on if you were

an independent you'd own the show like

Cary Warner Tom Warner who owns um uh

the Boston Red Sox and I think he still

owns Liverpool and he owns some for You

say you put the 70 show on or the Cosby

show on or Rosanne or you do 150

episodes. You sell it to a station group

for $5 million an episode. 150. You can

do the math.

>> Yeah, I can.

>> And then you do a second window into

cable. And then a third window happened

when Netflix came around.

>> And then you do that multiple after

they've run its course. You

>> the second window of syndication, the

third window of syndication, the fourth

window. Now it's really just what we

just did for The Office and you can do

for the Simpsons and you can do for

Family Guy and Curb and Seinfeld.

You're doing they're paying a lot of

money.

>> You're doing it at for the office.

You're doing it at Comcast for

that's the window. It's $500 million for

the for the new window.

>> It's a very good deal. But then I think

about four years ago, three years ago,

the writer's guild took away our

packages. But it used to be you had all

these independents supplying all these

content. Now it's the majors supplying

the majors. And so it's a lot different.

And I I do think that has not been uh

beneficial. I do think what's going to

happen now though,

AI is definitely going to reduce costs.

So, I had a client who's a writer

director. I'm not going to say who. He's

got to do an outline for a project.

He gave

I think Grock or Perplexity a incredible

prompt

based on a piece of IP.

The outline for the project.

>> Pretty close.

>> No. No. Now remember AI as as people say

is the greatest average, which it is.

>> Yeah.

>> He said is unbelievable. Now he's going

to have to do work on it and do it. But

that would have taken months. Months.

>> Yeah. Is your take on AI that it

basically supercharges the very best

people disproportionately?

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> Seen that elsewhere?

>> Um I'm not in other businesses, but I

mean my son works at Apple. I mean I

think programmers are feeling that, you

know. I think they're feeling that and

probably finance. And

>> when you saw Sora too, what' you think?

>> Oh, I wanted to sue him. You know, cuz

he stole a bunch of stuff. you put the

UFC up there, they put the WWE, they put

bow riding and really bad stuff. You

know what it's going to do, whether it

be Sora, Grock, Prop, all the it's just

going to make production

>> costs, filming,

>> DPS,

costume design. I mean, it's just And

then you're going to be able to either

bring Betty Davis back

>> or Elizabeth Taylor. It's going to

happen.

>> Yeah. And so you're going to see in a

good way like in the music business, you

can do an album in your bed.

>> Yeah.

>> I think the same thing's true.

>> In the movie business, I don't know

where it's going. It's but it it it's

it's going to be cheaper and there's

going to be a lot of it. And I think

you're going to not it's not going to be

>> the walls around creating content for

the first time because of the cost

because it used to cost hundred. Yeah.

It's no longer going to be that. And so

that's going to come down.

>> In a world where the marginal cost of

content creation is like getting close

to zero, where does the value acrew?

>> If we have four bit great biders and

maybe with six Wi-Fi, maybe everybody

with so with their social platforms is a

distributor, right? Through social.

>> Let's just say we're right. the marginal

cost becomes zero and you're Dwayne

Johnson

and you have I don't know how many

people he has on social but it's a lot

hundreds

>> or Kim Kardashian or you name it Mark

you name the person are you not

>> a distributor

>> a distributor

>> you know those are the questions that

are going to arise pretty soon

>> I say to people in my at William Morris

for the first time taste matters a lot.

>> Say a little bit more about that.

>> I don't know about you, but I get called

all the time. This is a great script.

>> Shut the [ __ ] up. Knowing what is good

and what is commercial and what sells.

Now, I'm not always right. You know, I'm

I'm probably batting 300. I'm in the

Hall of Fame, right? So, 60% of the time

I'm I'm screwed.

>> But people with taste that know this

business that know kind of what an

audience a mass audience likes is hard.

And so if you have taste and you're

seeing a lot of programming, you can say

there's talent there.

That actually has value. So you put it

on you're Dwayne Johnson. Let's just

take it out to let's just say my my

conclusion is right.

>> Yeah.

>> And you take it out to its farthest

limit where Dwayne Johnson has a

development team and they're looking for

stuff and they're picking and they're

putting on their service, right? For

Dwayne and Dwayne's paying that person.

I don't know if they're paying a million

dollars or $10,000 because the thing

costs nothing.

>> Yeah,

>> there's a value proposition there. And

you're getting a sponsor, you're getting

subs. I don't know. That's h that that

in some capacity that's going to happen.

Brands are going to be really important.

Old IP is going to be really important.

Um I think the value of uh of sports is

going to be even more valuable.

>> What about the content side of this?

>> What what content side? the use of IP.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's gonna be huge

business. I I do believe it's David

Ellison's bet, right, that there's going

to be more need for content than there's

ever been and there's going to be more

consumption.

>> I agree with that.

>> And it's going to be cheaper.

>> What about the use of content by labs

where maybe they shouldn't have used it

to train models, for example?

>> Oh, yeah. They should all get sued.

>> You think that'll How do you think

that'll play out? Well, we we we sent

the bad letter to Sam

like stop using the UFC and the WWE and

so they're going to have to pay.

>> Yeah,

>> I think unless the Supreme Court says

something. I mean, I I don't know how

you don't pay for when Larry David

creates Curb and Seinfeld

>> and you're taking it to train your model

and you're going to make a lot of zeros.

>> You don't think Larry David deserves to

get paid?

>> I think that's crazy.

>> Let's talk about IRL stuff in this

context. Obviously, you've created a

portfolio of some of the marquee live

events, and I know you believe very

deeply in this. Is the right way to

think about this almost like the anti-

AAI bet or the AI proof bet?

>> AI is going to be

>> big

>> big, which I think is a proper

conclusion.

>> Lots of R.

>> Yeah, there's a really lot of smart

people spending a lot of money at it and

they're smarter than me.

>> Okay. Netherlands just said 4 day work

weeks.

>> Mhm.

>> Drive times now are 11 to 4. across

America. Hotel bookings Thursdays way up

and there's a lot of more data points to

this. So the weekend starts Thursday now

and we're, you know, 2025,

maybe 2020. They start Wednesday. So

we're social animals. You're coming to a

UFC fight. You're a social guy. What are

you going to do? You're gonna watch a

lot of content. David Ellison's

conclusion. You're gonna watch a lot of

content,

>> right? There's gonna be more content

than ever. cost zero

on his service on four big services.

You're going to be watching, you're

going to be going to concerts, going to

standup, going to live events, sports or

my live events that I I've just bought.

And so the value of that is just because

it's there's only there's only so much

and yeah, people are creating new ones,

but you know, so that's my whole bet.

>> Simple.

>> I don't know how to write an algorithm

for AI. I don't know how to build a data

center. I'm not in a chip business. I I

just know how to

create really great live events,

monetize them, have a great user

experience.

And it's the opposite bet because data

data centers aren't the opposite bet.

Live is the opposite bet.

>> What makes a great live event? What are

the ingredients?

>> Well, you have there has to be a

specific audience. So, in art, there's a

very specific audience, right? There's a

there's a culture around art. It's

global. There's really good conversation

about it. Cars, NT cars, another one of

my businesses.

>> Very specific.

>> Very specific. Sports, UFC, bull riding,

WWE,

very specific. Right. Taste food

festivals. So, I'm in areas that I know

there's great cultural stinkiness.

>> It's global.

>> Yeah.

>> So, one of the things that we know, why

did we do freeze? It was only in two

places. It was in UK and New York. We

knew there were art festivals all the

place run poorly.

We knew we could take it globally. We

could spread the the um sponsorship. We

could determine that city needs them and

they would pay us to bring events. So we

get site fees, right? So hey bring

Freeze great brand knows how to do this

properly. All you know the food around

it all the think you know lectures etc.

we're going to pay you to be come here

for 10 years to put on the event. We

just closed that deal in Abu Dhabi. And

so when you start doing those things

properly in our Madrid Open,

which is our tennis tournament,

it's one of the nine major nine 1000s.

We're going to build another stadium to

build another food festival. We're going

to do concerts after the tennis

tournament. We just know how to

>> how to do it.

>> How to do it. And so when we look at

these things, we look at them in a way

that

what are they missing? Because we're

we're one of the only companies on a

global basis that do live events.

Sometimes you have companies that do

great live events, but they're they're

local. They're they're guys that are in

Arizona. There are guys that in just the

UK when they come into our organization,

we're in 32 compan. We know, oh, you

know something, there's an affinity

here.

>> You said two other things, monetization

and user experience. I'm going to say

monetization because I have a specific

question about it. Okay. um what what is

great user experience?

>> So when they go around there's food,

there's lectures, there's surrounding

events that make the event itself and

inside the event really special. Um and

it's a great way. I can't express enough

the need for people to get community

because we're all sitting

>> Yeah. staring

>> staring. You know, I remember one of the

things that made me think about this

also about why live events were so

important in sports were so important.

Tiger talked about at one point I saw a

documentary I think it was on like when

he first won people were clapping.

Second time, uh-uh, phones were up and

people were screaming.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. And that's because that thing you

want to show how great your life is,

right? And that also thing like

detaches you and you want a place where

you can have with other people a great

experience.

>> Yeah.

>> And that just bows well for music, live

sports, live events.

>> Yeah. And you're selling status to some

degree. Like you're selling the video.

>> This is status.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Um monetization is the one that

intrigues me the most based on a

conversation you and I have had before,

which is we're still figuring out the

demand curve inside of one of these

events. You know, we bought this company

on location. Do you know about that?

>> A little bit, but remind me.

>> So, on location, Jerry Cardell first

owned it with the NFL and they were

doing the premium hospitality

for the Super Bowl.

>> And we thought, wow, that's incredible

cuz people are asking for premiums now

and rich people are asking for more and

more because they can get everything.

So, they want even specialer

>> and that there was tiered market. Not in

a bad way. You know, some people I'm

going to pay $100 and some people I'm

going to pay $300. And then some people

are going to pay crazy.

So in the Super Bowl, go to Tiffany's

and get a blue football and have 10

people with you and get a lecture from

Payton Manning and walk on the field

pregame and come out with the team and

be on the stage for weigh-ins at the UFC

and sit at the table with Dana White.

for that I'm going to pay $50,000 a

ticket or I'm going to pay $300,000 for

the Super Bowl or XYZ for the Olympics.

It's crazy.

>> And you still haven't found the

>> Oh, no. No. We're just And we're adding

So, the Olympics, FIFA,

UFC,

um WWE in every category there's there's

premiums and people pay

>> crazy

>> crazy.

>> How much of it do you think is them

paying for the video that they get on

that versus? I think I think it has.

Yeah. Pretty high. But I But I think

that's fantastic. Yeah.

>> Like

>> you worked your ass off.

>> Yeah.

>> You love this thing.

>> Yeah.

>> Whether it be music, events, sports.

>> I want a different experience in my

life. Yes. For that, but just life.

>> Yeah.

>> And I think co made that happen too.

>> Yeah.

>> And people are doing it. I where it

ends, I don't know. But it is a huge

premium business.

>> How far can you push this? Like it feels

like you've you've collected lots of the

marquee assets and things that you love.

Like what's the runway feel like to you?

>> So here's one thing that we're doing in

the live events business that I started.

This is freeze and this is

>> Yeah, this is it's called Mari

Barrett Jackson, our tennis tournaments,

our participatory sports like Escape

from Malcatraz and Melbourne Marathon

and our taste festivals uh winter

wonderland that business. So we bought a

ticketing business inside that this

thing called um today tick the ticketing

business mainly that they do mainly

almost all they do is um theater

business and they've when co happened

they unlike other ticketing business

which had to keep on oper they shut the

whole thing down and rewrote the

operating system and it's incredible

we'll create a destination

with an incredible ticketing asset where

where I think it's going is

hopefully we create a a a platform that

is has events because we operate events

pretty well

>> plus a destination you white lip

ticketing then we can create a

sponsorship layer

site fee layer and maybe white label

some stuff and go from there.

>> So that's the that's the dream that's

the wish. What is the most surprising

thing about the landscape of sports and

lives event live events to

>> when you think about sports? So you have

the beast of all beasts, NFL,

NBA, global, baseball, hockey, English

Premier League, Spanish league, French,

you know, years ago. They're all owned

by federations and there's very few

independent.

>> Yeah.

>> And very few people that know how to run

them. when we were buying the OC is like

and we were having this argument

internally

Egon would say well the best people that

can pay the most are the broadcast well

they would ruin the sport I mean there's

so many things that happen to run one of

these things you have to make really

hard decisions and right

>> so there's first of all so there's a

limited amount that is available to buy

>> in the wrong hands the ones that are

independent

>> I mean unless Adam Silver's there unless

Roger Goodell's Those things don't run

the way they're supposed to. I mean,

those things are hard.

>> And the same thing with our sport. We're

about to start our boxing business.

>> So, if you approach boxing,

>> well, we we're we've start we've

announced the boxing league with

Paramount and we do the big

>> kind of like huge super events.

>> As you approach that opportunity, talk

me like tell me the story of how you

build it. Like you're I know you're

really excited. The

>> boxing. No. So, Don King screws over

Ali.

>> The Ali get axe gets passed. It um

changes the sport.

Now, first of all,

to create a league

in a combat sport,

the only person that could have ever

done it is Dana White

>> ever. So, he did it at the UFC.

>> And the other person that the only

person that could have done it, and it's

it's a it's sports entertainment, is

Vince McMahon,

>> right?

>> It's incredible.

>> Yeah. Those two guys.

>> So, we now look at that. The Ali's going

to exist. We're going to put in

hopefully we can get this passed. Add

add an element to it that we could

create another opportunity for fighters.

We're going to have like we have in the

UFC the best fighters fight the best

fighters.

>> Mhm.

>> And we think we can create like a UFC

but with boxing in Zufa boxing. And if

we do that,

I think fighters are going to make more

money. Cuz right now you don't know any

great fighters. It's not like

>> I literally can't.

>> You can't name one. We think we can do

that and then boxers will make more

money. It will be a business for them

and it's a great sport. The one I I was

more jazzed than ever about that. We put

a great fight on at Allegian Stadiums

where the Raiders play. Um and Mark

Davis was unbelievable. My partner Egan

Durban, who is part of that, was

unbelievable helping us with that. And

when you put a great fight and a great

card on, how many people showed up? And

because it's so ingrained boxing into

our world, 70,000 people and they did

not leave. It was spectacular. So if we

do that now, I think it can be as big or

bigger than the UFC and and the WWE and

they're big and we're going to do our

best to do it because I think the

audience wants it and I think it would

be great for for fighters.

>> What makes Dana so incredible as an

entrepreneur? What what is his

superpower?

>> One, he loves it.

>> He he loves it.

>> Good place to start. I mean, he really

does love combat sports. Two is he's not

scared. When you look at him, his his

poker play, his pakar play, I don't know

how he does it cuz if I'm betting $5,

I'm I I can't blame poker, but you know,

he he makes fun of me when we do this,

right? We're celebrating the deal at

ESPN. He just fly. Come to come to

Vegas. We're going out for dinner. We're

celebrating. I'm like, okay, what does

that mean? Well, we're going to go

gamble. What? But I don't gamble.

>> Yeah.

>> I said, "Okay." He goes, "What? How much

do you want on your line?"

I go,

>> "Two grand."

>> I said, "Yeah, I I think I said I think

I said 25,000."

And we're in the car and we're driving.

He goes, "You're the biggest gambler I

know to me." I'm like, "No, I'm not." He

goes, "You just bet on me $4.2 billion,

right?" You know, he took a million

dollars. I I think I think he got me up

to like $50,000 on the line. And I said,

"Well, that's not a gamble." Because I,

you know, I did my version in my head,

my calculation.

So, he is just like a unique individual

that, you know,

he's not partisan. He's loyal. He has a

vision. He He backs your play if you

back, you know, he's just that guy. and

he's not afraid to take take on a

challenge and do the work. I mean, he

works constantly. And so in this space,

he just knows the space so well and he's

relentless.

>> How did you learn to become not afraid?

>> Well, I mean, mean when you're dyslexic

and people are making fun of you and

>> just power through.

>> Yeah. You know, you can't be

embarrassed. Like it there's nothing

more embarrassing when you're 13 years

old

and you're in

>> like a remedial class or something.

>> It wasn't remedial. It was it doesn't

worse than that.

>> Yeah. And you're in school and you know

you're not stupid

>> and you know

I was in special ed.

>> Well, there can't be more embarrassing

than that. Like so anything now I'm not

I don't give a [ __ ] Like you can't

embarrass me. So and it was actually

that simple. When you're in special ed

and you're 15 years old and you're in

high school

>> and your two brothers are some of the

smartest kids from that high school

>> and you have to walk home and you you're

really good at math, you just can't read

just because of how your brain's wired

and and they put you in special ed.

You're like, "What the fuck?"

>> So, what was the first experience though

of like clicking out of that to the

opposite of like, "Oh [ __ ] I'm actually

really I could be really good at

something." Well, you know, yeah. I I

don't know what it was. I was like,

my my three boys were dyslexic because

it does get past that. My father was

dyslexic

and when my boys were dyslexic, I I put

them into this class, this this school

in the summer called Linda Moodbell.

Kind of like his run a marathon on their

brains to to teach their their left back

lobe how to read. It's four hours a day

relentless.

My mom did that to me. She There was no

Lyndenwood Bell back then. You know,

people called, you know, tiger moms. I

don't know what you call a Jewish tiger

mom, but it it's it's brutal, right? I

don't care what anybody else is saying.

You're going to college cuz I wasn't

going to go to college. You're reading.

You're getting good grades. Tiger mom at

a degree of 10.

>> And then what was the first like early

20s like postc college like big hit of

success?

>> Well, I knew here's what I knew. I I ca

I screwed around in Europe for a year. I

came back to New York

and a friend of mine at the time, what

was this guy by the name of um Michael

Mendelson

and he was working for this company. Now

I used to when I was cuz I was

hyperactive too. I used to wake up at 5

in the morning just watch TV and I

watched I used to watch the Crusher and

the Bruiser and the regional wrestling

and TV shows and never knew how it was

made but watched everything. I said,

"What are you doing?"

And he said to me, "Oh, I'm working at

William Morris." Now, how the [ __ ] am I

supposed to know what William Morris is?

I'm from Chicago. My father's a doctor.

He's an immigrant. Like, William Morris,

what the [ __ ] is William Morris? So, he

tells me and for whatever reason,

bang, the light went on. And I didn't

have a job. I didn't know what I was

going to go to business school back to

Northwestern and go to summer on night

school, business school or and I was

going to work at the Merc because I used

to do summer jobs at the Merc in the

pits, you know, 2 and 20, 2 and 20. I

used to do all that, right? I thought I

was going to do that. I was good at

math. And and for whatever reason, the

minute he told me that, I said, "That's

a that's a gig for me."

Got a got a job working for this guy by

the name of Robbie Lance. I was working

for Bob Duva, who who um who went to

work for Robbie Lance.

And it just started. I

I helped with the Tennessee Williams

loan helmet um and dash helmet estates

kind of making rights deals for them and

organized it properly. He was I think at

the time

86 and he turns to me and I was doing a

really good job and he says I'm not

promoting anybody. You should you can

make a you should go out to LA and you

can make a lot of money. and he set up

two interviews for me, one at CIA and

one at this company called Leading

Artists.

And um

got the job in the mail room at CA

making 15 cents a mile.

>> Where'd you learn in the mail room?

>> That I hated it. I learned how to

actually drive around LA and I learned,

you know, the hierarchy of the business,

business affairs people, studio heads,

where star at the time where movie stars

played, that whole

>> way. Yeah. The movie business, how

important it was. But the television

made business made a lot of money. And I

realized I could never be in the movie

business.

>> Why?

>> Because you would do you would have to

do coverage while you're in the mail

room. I'm dyslexic.

Movie script 130 pages, 120 pages. TV

script 30 pages. I'm not spending all

weekend.

I'm going to do now that little thing

cuz the money was in television.

>> That little change two doors. Yeah.

>> Bang. And then when we started Endeavor

with George Gilder's book and I'm

reading it in life after television, I'm

like, there's going to be a lot more

distribution.

There's only so much content creators at

the time.

>> Yeah,

>> content was going to change and expand,

but there's limited just supply and

demand. prices are going up for creators

and television where you could make and

when I was at I went on Bill Haber's

desk the head of television at the time

with Mike Ron Meer and Bill Habber the

huge money huge money was coming in

because of television not that the movie

business wasn't because you had the DVD

division at the time and gross

participation and everything else but

you had a hit television show like ALF I

remember sitting on the desk listening

to all the calls and there was a fight

between Mike Owitz and Bernie Burlstein

on Alph and who what they were paying

out. That thing paid out a fortune and

then it paid out syndication one,

syndication 2, you know, and all the

different and I was like that baby's for

me.

>> What was the key to being an exceptional

agent or is the key to being exceptional

>> being relentless when you're trying to

get somebody staffed and you one of the

greatest things Robbie Lance ever taught

me? You know why people call me back

Robbie used to say in his an Austrian

accent? because I represent Milos

Foreman who did Amadeas and I represent

Peter Schaffer, I represent Alpuchccino,

they'll call you back. So having a great

client meant you had access

and so you had to have taste and you had

to get great clients and once you did

that and and and and they continued to

grow, you became more and more powerful

and so that's what I did.

>> How did you get your first great client?

Who was it? I'm at CAA and I go to this

company, Intertalent. And Mark Rosen,

I'm not sure this was my first client.

It might have been my second client

because Greg Daniels, who created The

Office and King of the Hill and

and Parks and Wreck, I he might have

been my first client, but but Amy

Litman, who created Party of Five, also

might have been I I'm I'm not I'm too

old.

>> Um, but

>> yeah, they had created a show. I thought

the shows were great. took over those

clients.

They led to other clients and then back

then there was no YouTube. There was no

Instagram. There was none of that. There

was no TW. No, people weren't creating

that way. The great shows were Saturday

Night Live to the Simpsons. this whole

Harvard Lampoon group that was kind of

like

and all those a lot of them not all

SNL guys the writers because I was in

the writer business came from the

lampoon Harvard

going to Harvard

>> go there

>> so signed a bunch of people off of that

put them on SNL SNL they went to the

Simpsons or they had the pedigree and

then you moved them around

>> I have like a bizarrely specific

question I've been on the receiving end

of like what it's like to communicate

with you and your team. It's unlike

anything that I've experienced in terms

of the speed and like like the minute

you Yeah. the velocity like you get

engaged and then it's just like

>> you feel like you got plugged into the

Matrix or something.

>> What What is that? What's the origin of

that?

>> That I have no idea. Can you describe

that? I use

>> the phone. I use it as a weapon.

>> And I have two people working for me and

I do do now a lot of stuff on AI.

>> Yeah. with regard to conference calls

and followup and but my system how

>> what is your system I want to know I

have no idea I just I' I've grown it

over years that it's kind of like it's

its own animal

>> what's the principle behind it followup

relentless followup yeah relentless

follow-up and communication

>> yeah overcommunication like my brother

Zeke is horrible at it he's my oldest

brother I say to him I just sent you

this to call this person because you

asked me and I've connected you and the

next call is not that person. What are

you doing? Like I don't understand. And

it drives me crazy with my kids too.

Like my my my middle kid is very good at

it who's in the business who's in the

entertainment because he's seen me do

it.

>> But one is you got to communicate. You

got to overcommunicate. If they're not

getting back to you, you got to keep on

calling them. Like what are you doing?

Like that's the job.

>> How do you make people love you for it

versus be annoyed by it? I don't know if

people love me for it, but I I try and

make it like I know

>> they respect it.

>> I know you want to kill me. You know,

you have to

>> bring levity to it. Yeah.

>> So, but it is it is a

>> it works.

>> It's a force. I understand that.

>> Yeah. How many calls do you think you

do?

>> A lot.

>> A lot. My friend Pete Berg was in the

car with me once and he said we were

coming back. I don't remember. We're

coming out from a golf match and he's

sitting in the car and the system starts

>> the phone calls and and the phone calls

can be from presidents of the United

States to a young actor, a writer, an

idea I want. And he turns to me in the

middle of it and he goes,

"I'm too anxious right now. I can't

breathe." And I'm like, "What's the

problem?" He goes, "Do you realize

what's going on on that thing?" And you

know, yeah, I know. I I don't I I I I I

I'm sorry about it.

>> It just works.

>> I'm sorry if it like

>> No, I love it. I think it's fantastic.

>> Did I come at you pretty or my system?

>> No, it just it just you feel uh it just

feels different. It feels uh like the

thing matters.

>> Yeah.

>> That's nice.

>> Uh too few things feel like they matter.

>> Yeah.

>> And so I think you're good at

>> Well, I mean, if I'm going to be

involved in something

>> Yeah.

>> it matters to me. So therefore, I'm

going to take it to the point where I

can get it done. What have you learned

from Egon?

>> You know, the great thing about him is

he continues to want to learn. I mean,

he's a guy that's made a lot of money.

He takes a lot of big risks. I mean, but

he's smart about them. Eminem used

writes all the time songs. He writes,

writes, writes, writes, right

beforehand, and then when he gets in

there, he pulls his Jay-Z.

This is what Rick Rubin told me. He

doesn't write any of his lyrics.

They're about to start. He comes back

in, tune hits, he does the rep.

He's instinctual but incredible.

Egon does unbelievable analysis.

And I saw it in our take private. I see

it when he goes after a company.

He's he's relentless when he wants

something. He takes criticism.

for a a guy at his level PE guy as good

as he is taking criticism and listening

to it and absorbing it and then adapting

with it. Incredible. That that is I've

never seen that. Most of these guys,

they're not alone. Go [ __ ] yourself.

Shut up. [ __ ] But he does all those.

It's really incredible.

And then

he learns from it, adapts. I don't know

anybody who's a There's probably people

as on par with him. I haven't I don't

know a lot of them. I don't think

there's any better. He's a he he has a

point of view on on industries like he

came after me. He was tech guy. Here's

where I think the business is going

which matched up with mine content etc.

So he has visions in very but then the

the superpower

probably one of the best financial

engineers I've ever seen of all these

guys like it's not even close

>> defined as knowing what he wants

>> when he looks at when he looks at a

balance sheet he sees a different

language

>> than most dudes

like and sees the value proposition

and has been

like not 30% right, like 70% right.

That's [ __ ] rare.

>> How do you think about your own

investing that's not one of these

massive major platforms that's just like

a normal investment? How do how do you

do that in your life?

>> Yeah. You listen, I got I got some big

investments called TKO

>> and I'll bet on myself and and um and

Mari. I I'm betting on myself. I I'm not

smart enough now. I have bonds. I'm not

smart enough to to know. I believe in

Elon Musk.

>> Talk about him a little bit. I know

you've recently saw some of the robotic

stuff we're talking about. Incredible.

>> Tell tell me what your impression was.

>> Well, I saw the three or four

generations of the hand.

>> You know, I came up to him. I said, I

want to do UFC fights with the robots.

Cool.

>> That's one of the things we started

talking about.

>> And uh I sent Dana to when we were we

just had a fight in China. I sent him to

see some of the robots there to see if

we could then do a fight. Chinese versus

American.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It was really cool.

>> Wow. Everyone in the world would watch

that.

>> All right.

>> So, I went up to see him. The three or

four iterations of the hand,

>> the Optimus hand.

>> What did you see?

>> I mean, just the how much technology was

from 1 to four or 1 to three, I don't

remember, was unbelievable. And what the

hand could do

>> beyond it. I mean, it's it's it does

what you and I do.

>> Yeah.

And then he showed me a couple of them

that could fight and throw punches and

kicks and the balance and the pushing.

Unbelievable. If I'm a betting man,

first of all, if I'm a betting man, I'm

betting on that dude. I bet on him on

SpaceX,

XAI, Twitter.

>> I almost hesitate to ask because it's

everyone knows Elon's awesome and or has

been awesome and is great at what he

does. But what how would you describe

his greatness? Like what what's your

interpretation of it? I'm having

Thanksgiving at my house with my brother

Rahm who's in the Obama administration,

the chief of staff. Elon's a friend and

uh world's falling off a cliff.

>> So, we're in California. I said, "Hey,

can we come down to see SpaceX and

Tesla?"

Yeah.

Now, the president's bailing out car

companies,

Elon, cuz I know it.

Tesla's in trouble. He's sleeping cuz

there's cars backed up that have to be

fixed. He's starting a new car company.

He's sleeping there like he did at

Twitter,

SpaceX,

and he's just he just will not stop.

Just will not stop until it's fixed. And

so, you know, we get in there, he walks

with my brother, shows him SpaceX. This

is at the beginning. Oh, wait. Nothing.

>> Nothing SpaceX, right? He's building it

and he's got these two things my brother

gave him got the president to give him

like but he was sleeping

there on two hours sleep and I think he

he needs that in his life to

even though he hates it at times because

I remember him calling me and he hated

he was so upset with Tesla and and what

should he do with it and we we would

have conversations

But he wills things with sheer brains

and power and guts and endurance to make

them

right. And that's his superpower cuz it

it gives in a weird way even though it's

I think emotionally brutal on him take

in taking all the punches and and

feeling that it also does give him a

huge amount of energy and and emotion

satisfaction.

>> You've got the show called Rushmore

which is about greatness. What is it

about greatness that so draws your

>> I I don't believe in legacy, you know. I

don't believe that business people have

legacies. I think Elon will have a

legacy. I think Jeff Bezos will have a

legacy. I think I think Steve Jobs has a

legacy. Probably mostly it's

>> that's about it.

>> You know, presidents.

>> Yeah.

>> Leaders, maybe some actors. But, you

know, but I do think there's

characteristics of those four people

that are important to know about, like

how did they get there? And is it are

there patterns?

Um, and uh, as we just said, we just did

a Rushmore on the '9s of music with

Jimmy I and Rick Rubin.

>> How fun.

>> Who are two guys that should be as

producers on Rushmore in my opinion. You

know, we as humans can at least see

greatness in how they do it and then

adapt it or learn something there and

take that learning and and keep on

evolving. But I think it's always

important to kind of learn from history

as if rhymes and then take things and

use them in your own life. And that's

why I'm doing it.

>> What have you learned about with a with

a life like the one you've led?

>> Yeah.

>> It's not lacking adventure.

how to talk to your kids about it and

and not create a circumstance where

there's a expectation.

>> Well, you know, I got a I got a daughter

that works at the WWE. I got a son

that's working for Rick Russo hopefully.

Knockwood. He runs for governor.

>> Governor

>> and then my son is in the business. He's

a producer.

>> And the other one works at Apple.

>> I have and they have had unbelievable

luxury.

I think if you ask people, I hope if you

ask people, they're pretty normal kids

because one, they weren't

overprogrammed.

I wasn't a helicopter father. Their

mother wasn't a helicopter mother.

The summers

they ran around in Rhode Island and

played golf and played tennis. There

wasn't like And if they did stupid [ __ ]

>> they got punished and they didn't run

our lives.

So, they're pretty normal kids and I'm

not sitting there trying to always help

them. I I make an introduction

and then

>> their job.

>> It's their job. Even though they hate,

they would tell you, "Yeah, my eldest

son, Noah, it's one of my favorite

moments. We were in we're flying

somewhere and he goes, "I just want to

be normal." I said, "Who the [ __ ] wants

to be normal? Like, normal sucks."

Right? Like, Right. What the [ __ ] is

normal? like normal. What is that? I

don't even know what that is. So

>> when you ask around, everyone says

people say a lot of things mostly

amazing about you. One of the thing

everyone says is that you're one of the

consmate dealmakers.

>> What is a great deal? Like what in your

mind some you agree you've made a lot of

great deals. Like what is a great deal?

What is a great process of deal making?

>> You know when you're making a deal and

they're all different, both sides have

to feel good. Your job is to make sure

the other side, whether it's true or

not, feels good.

>> Simple.

>> That's not easy.

>> How do you do that? What's the art of

that?

>> You know, there's there's so much

there's there there's there's so much

nuance to that. Sometimes it's just a

fight. You're just aggressive. Like,

okay, we're in a battle. Certain people

and certain negotiations and everybody

feels, you know, you're in a dance,

>> right? and you're kind of like trying to

get them and you know, you're just you

just have to hang in there and and do

the dance till we get to the end of the

song. And it's not a battle. I mean,

I've been in screaming matches like

like, "Okay, [ __ ] you. We're going to

I'm you know, I know you need it. I You

know, I need it. We're just

>> It's yelling."

>> Oh, no. We're fight We're firing guns.

Like, it's we're shooting. I like the

second one better.

>> And that's just about charm. And that's

just about kind of knowing all kind of

how how you have to play. Sometimes you

got to get mad, you know,

>> and it it takes time although I mean

it's it it somebody was asking me what's

the art?

>> Yeah,

>> it is so complicated. It

>> can't be reduced.

>> I don't know if it can be reduced.

That's when I was constantly on the

field. I was always the first one.

>> I was always shooting. I was always in a

fight.

>> Right.

>> As I've gotten dancing,

>> as they're gotten bigger,

>> there's a lot more dancing.

>> More dancing. Yeah, I was a pretty ugly

fighter though. Constantly angry, pissed

off, and you're standing in the way of

where cuz I've already played the chess

match out. If I get this, this here's

what happens. Like you're standing in

the way of my chess match. Like I'd be

pissed.

>> Seemed to work though.

>> Yeah, it worked. Yeah.

>> I like the extremes. What's the fastest

money you've ever made and what's the

longest game you've ever had to play?

>> My greatest negotiation. Can I do it

that way?

>> Yeah, of course. The greatest deal I

ever made was quote unquote merging with

William Morris, $44 million.

Paid out the CFO and Jim W. They never

thought we were going to write a check

for $20 million

and have the vote to fire them. Patrick

Whitel and I did that in the deal done

and

the merger done I think in a year

and and they they had a horrible

culture. So everybody hated each other

and we just played the chess match on

their side and and then took over the

company and brought in Silverlake and

>> rest is history.

>> Yeah. And that then led to everything.

>> Just to zoom in on that negotiation a

little bit.

>> They were in trouble

>> financially. They just were losing

clients and financially in trouble and

they all hated each other and they knew

they didn't have good leadership and and

we could just keep putting out bad press

on them and taking agents and taking

clients over the you know we took it

took seven years to to do that. And then

once we were in the room to we you know

and then we just

pitted

board members against them and brought

them on our side because we actually

treated them well. We actually did and

then when the vote came before the

merger like you guys now have to get rid

of Jim Y cuz he's a disaster and the CFO

all their hands went up because they

realized wait a second these guys are

good guys and we were and so we just

even before the merger closed they got

rid of them and then then it just all

happened and and then that led to

Egon coming into my life. Teddy had

gotten sick and and passed away. Teddy

Forceman

>> going after IMG and it was the best deal

I've ever made.

>> What was that flip like from agent to

owner?

>> This is where Egon was a great teacher.

>> You know, he helped us think through

because we knew we were going after IMG.

And then once we had IMG, I knew I, you

know, just I don't I don't I knew

instinctually Patrick took over the

college football business that they had

>> and I moved to the UK and I took over

IMG and that's how we split the baby.

And nobody was telling me I had to move

to the UK. I just realized, wait a

second, I just spent $2.4 billion. You

better [ __ ] get your ass to the UK

and understand that business, right? And

none of those people wanted to stay cuz

they didn't want us to win. IG didn't

want us to win. They wanted somebody

else to win. They wanted Churn's group

to win. And this is where I I learned a

lot from Egon in this negotiation. He

says

I think that that Churn

they were going to pay I think it was

1.9 billion. And he said we're paying

24. I said 24.

Why don't we pay 21?

>> He goes we're going to make it so they

can't

>> can't say no.

>> Can't say no and they can't go back.

>> Yeah.

>> Because they don't want us.

>> And he was 100% right. Pay two4. We get

it. And then I realized this is my

money. Like time to move. Family stayed

in Rhode Island and LA. I moved for I

think it was four or five months

>> to the UK

>> and all over Europe. I went to Spain for

tennis business. I mean all over.

Learned all the players.

Uh that's another place where I I kind

of when I got done I was I was

physically fried.

>> Fried.

>> Yeah. because I was then flying back on

weekends and flying. I mean, it was

crazy. And then I had I represented

writers, directors, actors, plus I had

to do that. So, that was kind of like

when it all happened.

>> Do you care about money anymore? Like,

are you motivated by money?

>> I didn't really care about money since

my first show went into syndication.

When King of the Hill went into

syndication.

>> What What happened then? You just made

enough that you just

>> I mean, I was making 15 cents a mile,

>> right?

>> Yeah. When you're making 15 cents a mile

and then all a sudden, I mean, you can

go look at the math. It was it was $6

million an episode.

>> Yeah.

>> And they did 14 seasons,

>> it's, you know, you're okay.

>> So then what what if money sunseted,

what became the thing?

>> I want to be right. My ideas, I want to

make sure that they're right

>> because that feels good when you are.

>> Yeah.

>> Simple as that.

>> Yeah. You know, I'm not I'm not I'm not

the stupidest Emanuel.

You know, I still have competition with

those two emotionally.

>> What have you learned from Rahm?

>> Talk to my brother Rahm about politics.

And you can talk to him about a lot of

other things, but when it comes to his

metier, and we're not talking about just

domestic policy. We're talking about

global politics like

how to handle allies in Asia to combat

China or what to do on Israel or any

subtext.

There's nobody more thought. I mean,

I'm not going to I'm going to boast

about my brother Ram.

When you look at the potential field of

potential candidates for presidents, and

there's some I mean, Gretchen Whitmore,

I know I know Josh, I know a lot of

these guys, and they're all very

qualified

um

on a global basis.

and he is as relentless and as driven as

I am and what I do was in two white

houses was the whip in Congress was a

mayor of a big city and understands

everything going on in one of the

biggest most important areas in the

world for us Asia and had galvanized and

his responsibility as as ambassador

galvanized that region to combat China

there's nobody more qualified whether

that makes him the president you know

the future candidate I have no idea

But my brother understands you know we

were talking about

it used to be when you were CEO it was

bil it's just bilateral now it's

multilateral right I don't think anybody

looks at that board better than him in

politics and in global issues

um and that's a rare and he learned from

incredible people

Clinton was incredible Obama was

incredible

worked out their agenda he is

and and at at details like you can ask

him about the Supreme Court in

Pennsylvania issues and how they handle

that. I mean, he's down he he's he's at

an inch. I'm at an inch in my business.

He's at an inch and he understand then

what that means for the congressional

races, what that means for the Senate,

the messaging that you have to do to

kind of like and how to stay on message.

I mean, he's and Zeke, he is just

hysterical. I mean, you know, I mean, I

love him. He's he's a bioethicist. He's

he's I think he's incredible thinking

about medicine. Why Why he does what he

does, I have no and he loves it.

>> And so, I just love him.

>> What happens when you're no longer at

the 1- in level? When you are no longer

in deep in the flow of

>> Well, I'm not I'm not now at William

Morris.

>> And so, has it been easy?

>> Yeah. I just said this to uh one of the

companies that I run, Craig Bear

Jackson, and Craig Jackson wants to step

back. And I said to him, you know,

you're never stepping back. He goes,

what are you talking about? I said,

well, here's what I did. Let's go

private. Richard Whites and Christian

Mer are going to take over the business

and they're going to do some really

great things and they're going to [ __ ]

[ __ ] up.

And you know the only way they're going

to learn?

>> By doing those two things.

>> By [ __ ] [ __ ] up. You don't really

learn that much for doing good things.

>> Yeah.

>> And I said, "And you've got to permit

the fuckups." And the problem is I said,

"I started my business 31 years ago. I

It's my It's my name. Your father

started your business and now it's your

name. You just won't let anybody [ __ ]

up. What's the worst thing that could

happen if it [ __ ] up? Is the business

going away?" No. So, let them [ __ ] up.

>> That thought process,

>> not a lot of people have that run

companies.

>> What was your most formative [ __ ] up?

The thing you [ __ ] up that taught you

the most? Well, I I [ __ ] up all the

call. I mean, thank God Mark Shapiro's

in my life and Egon's in my life. I I

think the biggest [ __ ] up truly because

we're we're building the business and

you know you pick bad people and you do

but we had a bad meeting Patrick and I

whitall

with um Irv Winero Jim Wyatt and Dave

Worfer

and I went nuts because they said cuz I

said because they weren't mer they I was

playing the chess match out and they

didn't let me get to the end and I and I

actually went talking about the

negotiate I screamed at them. We're

sitting at a table like this at the Bair

or no Beverly Hills Hotel. I mean, I

went nuts. I I said I said, "You don't

know what the [ __ ] you're talking about.

We could buy you. You know, we're like 2

inches big and it's William Morris

because we were more profitable." And I

said, I said, "You you know nothing

about business." And I go [ __ ] you're

talking about I go [ __ ] nuts. And I

go to and Patrick to his credit,

you know, he knows when I hit the defcon

four or five, he's just get the [ __ ] out

of the way. Meeting ends. It's over.

>> Yeah.

>> When I talked about this was when I was

and we're walking down Wilshire and he

goes, "Well, that's over." I said, "No,

that's not over. This is happening."

Right. And so, you know, a year and a

half later, two years later,

>> it was back on the table. But that was a

[ __ ] because it it just pushed us pushed

us way way back. But I just I I I saw

Defcom I was so pissed.

>> What do you think the future of TV and

movies are?

>> There's going to be a lot more of them.

>> And I I actually think what I said to

you,

I think that you're going to have you're

seeing it now. Marketing companies are

going to podcasters and streamers and

marketing with them or giving them

brands and giving them ownership to to

sponsor them and market them. And

sometimes they sponsor them and

sometimes they ask them to take equity.

And same thing's going to happen with

content. We talked about this. I think

the cost is going to go down to zero or

very close.

And Dwayne Johnson, Mark Wahlberg, Dana

White,

Pat McAfee, they're all going to become

their own channels.

I do believe actually I don't know if

that's in two years.

>> Yeah.

>> Or in seven years. So,

>> and so then representation

has to change its in infrastructure

like we changed when we took over sports

to be able to handle that conversation

with regard to licensing, marketing, all

that stuff.

>> So, so like give me advice like I have a

channel.

>> I think the podcasting business is going

to become like the cable business. It's

going to become like Oprah.

>> What does that mean?

>> You know, Oprah had Dr. Phil and

>> Oh, I see.

>> She sponsored people and then she took

them out in the syndication on the

station groups. You're going to find a

young you and maybe it's in medicine or

maybe it's in

something that interests you and you're

going to bring them into the fold with

your sponsors, your your distribution

and everything. You're gonna take a

piece of it and

maybe there's a product that comes off

of it and you're gonna own a piece and

he's gonna own a piece and and then

you're going to figure out maybe I need

my own um sponsorship marketing team

internally and

>> so you're going to become

I somebody needs channel

>> you're Oprah.

>> Yeah,

>> you've become Oprah. So that's what

that's what

>> great sounds good to me.

>> And so that will be the first iteration

of this. You you never know. You might

find a movie that you like or a

documentary you like and you send it out

to your subs and then

I I there's multiple ways you can

monetize that. Maybe you turn that into

a book.

That's going to be the business. Yeah.

>> What's your craziest view on the future

of sports? Like you're we'll finish

where we started.

>> Prices are going way up.

>> Prices for everything.

>> Prices for teams.

>> Okay. Talk about that cuz like in the

NFL, everyone's like there's no more

rich guys to buy the teams. Well,

they'll just change. They'll go from PE

firms owning 10% 50.

>> Yeah. 35. Yeah. And they'll instead of

they can only take a billion dollars of

debt out, they'll take they can take $2

billion. I mean,

>> yeah, it'll just go up.

>> That [ __ ] will change.

>> But the price of sports

for the end user

is going to be more. Therefore, then the

price of there's going to be tiers at

Netflix. You know, with the sports,

which the sports tier you pay $15,

you know,

>> they're going to have to make a decision

when do they go direct. It depends on

the leagues.

>> Yeah. Depends on when this thing caps

out.

>> Mhm.

>> We just saw a big input of money, which

is

>> betting that will increase

>> that that

>> the market

>> that market will increase and the amount

of money they pay will increase. Premium

ticket will go up and ticketing will go

up and

>> prices are going up.

>> Price going up.

>> What do you think of gambling? What do

you think of betting? Well, I think it's

good actually in the following way for

us. I'm just talking about our

businesses. The more data, the more you

can't cheat. And I think what's going to

happen, you'll have AI companies come in

and look at all the data and you won't

be able

nobody's going to you're going to

understand you're going to triangulate

and understand

there's something happening over here

with this picture and you're going to

look at video and it's going to be like

boom.

>> Yeah.

So hard to cheat. It will be harder to

cheat. Now, not that people won't try. I

think it helps the engagement. Now, do I

think gambling is good is a different

conversation.

>> Do you?

>> I don't gamble.

>> Do I think gambling is good? I I have I

I have very, you know, how I I come at

you hard. Imagine what I do to my kids

on gambling,

>> health, smoking, and drinking. I feel

bad for my children. I mean it's

unrelenting articles,

conversations.

>> Yeah.

>> It's horrible.

>> Yeah.