Well, Guy, I mean, we've covered a lot

of ground. Is there anything else that

you would

like to say before we start landing the

plane?

>> I'd say that

AI and music content it's

on one level exciting that

so many people are experimenting

writing songs for the first time

>> Mhm.

>> writing beats, creating sounds for the

first time. That's pretty exciting. At

the same time, the idea that there's

companies out there

valued at billions of dollars

that are built on the top of

other people's music

where not one artist has ever gotten

paid a dollar

is not okay.

>> Yeah.

>> So, I don't want to bundle it all up

where people get that's all becomes one

thing. It's not all one thing. Mikey, he

runs Suno. He's a great guy. I mean,

great guy like I really like him as a

person. But every time I read about the

company and it's now at a $5 billion

valuation and next thing you know it's

at a $10 billion valuation and it's all

built off of

the world's music

but yet not one music artist has gotten

a dollar.

>> Mhm.

>> So, that's not okay. That has to be

fixed. I'm hoping Mikey does the right

thing and fixes that, comes up with a

system

>> Mhm.

>> that allows

artists, if they want to opt in, either

let them opt out, do not use my music to

build your business.

Okay?

I'm opting out. But if I opt in, find a

way to pay us.

>> Mhm.

>> And I'm really concerned for that.

Because the other part, which is

right now currently

every 2 weeks

more music is made on AI than all of the

music

that's on Spotify today.

That's every 2 weeks.

And all of that is going somewhere,

and people are inspired, and they're

creating songs. Awesome.

But don't build a business

using our music

without getting those rights. And that's

something I'm that I'm been trying to

work on for a long time. I've met with

Mikey many times.

I've met with lots of people many times.

I I hope that this gets solved. You

know, when Napster first started, I met

with Shawn and Shawn when they started

cuz it was so exciting to see people

were all, you know, downloading music,

but it was illegal. So, you were hoping

they'd crack the code on, okay, how do

you turn this into how artists get paid?

And before they

I don't know if they were going to or

not going to, but before it that could

even happen, it got shut down.

So, and out of nowhere,

Daniel Ek in Stockholm

built Spotify and figured out that

people would pay for music

if you give it to them in this way where

they had all the music in the world

without having to try to piece it

together or try to illegally download

songs that were not even clean or clear,

and they it could be corrupt.

To get it clean, to hold on to it,

they'll pay for it. And he was right.

They have paid for it. Now, are all the

payment plans there picture perfect? No.

But it is the core of where money is

coming in today. It's to music artists

through streaming.

And I'm hoping that

people figure out how if you're going to

be using people's music, how you pay for

it.

>> Yeah.

>> Fair use is not fair.

>> Yeah, I'm curious to see where it goes

because if you say, create a song that

sounds like Metallica, it'll say we

cannot serve up any copyrighted music.

If you say serve me up some music that

sounds like Moralica and you

just misspell it then lo and behold

though it looks like it was trained.

>> Yeah, that's the problem.

>> There's a lot of workarounds and they'll

you know you'll they'll look you in the

eye and tell you no no you can't you

cannot type in Madonna.

>> Yeah.

>> But you can sort of describe Madonna.

The problem is is when in in discovery

we're going to find out a lot.

>> Sure.

>> And discovery is going to say

all of

this music is in there. And they know

that.

>> Yeah.

>> And

that's not okay. It's just like

literally not okay. I don't understand

it. And by the way, what's wrong with

paying artists?

>> Yeah.

>> Why not figure out a way to do it? Sit

down with a team, figure out how to pay

music artists if you're going to train

on their music.

>> Where do you think it goes because I

could see one future for instance even

if

legally they aren't required or for

whatever reason that's not compatible

with the vision they've pitched to

investors and

and I'm not singling out Suno. I mean

there are lots of lots of different

options here.

>> They're the main ones.

>> They're the big they're the 800 pound

gorilla. But I could see a point at

which

possibly

Claude, Chat GPT become the interfaces

to everything, right? It's almost like

the App Store but

somewhat like WeChat in China. Like if

you want to do anything, you want to

book a restaurant, you want to make a

song

>> Okay.

>> there are few interfaces to everything

at which point then

those companies, right? OpenAI,

Anthropic

>> Mhm.

>> can gatekeep in some way and maybe they

end up being the entities that

incentivize these other companies like

the Sunos of the world

to

to reimburse artists. So I guess I'm

just wondering if you have any thoughts

on how it gets there.

>> Yeah. Because if if Claude or Chat is a

distribution, they probably won't carry

it because it's it's got so many

lawsuits involved and it's just not

worth

taking on that responsibility. And

again, the guy who runs Suno, I find him

to be a really good guy and I'm hoping

that he does the right thing. But it's

really their responsibility. They're

they're sitting at the the top of this

opportunity.

Take off the artists that don't want to

be on there

and find a way to pay the ones that are

okay being on there. It's that simple.

It's not complicated. I think go in a

room, lock yourself in a room for 3 days

and come out and figure out how to pay

people and take people off that don't

want to be on there. Madonna does not

want her music trained on.

Don't care what you want to pay her.

She's very clear, I do not want my music

to be trained on. I want my music to be

its own thing.

So take her off. It's okay. You you'll

still do fine. Take her off. You don't

have to have

her music. So

where this goes, but this is I've been

the last few years I've really tried to

figure this out and even, you know, Sam

at one point, he's really wanted to

figure this out too. Like Sam was A lot

of people give him a hard time on this

stuff, but he really did dedicate

time to try and figure out if there was

a music thing to do, how to do it in a

way that supported

artists.

>> Yeah, I mean there may be someone who

comes along also if it's not Suno,

someone who comes from behind like a

next generation Spotify

and figures out how to do it.

>> Spotify can do it.

>> Yes, if Spotify can do it.

>> Yeah.