Mark Cuban is here. Ever since he was a

child, he wanted to be an entrepreneur.

I just love to compete. For whatever

reason, I do. We want all our fellow

Americans to succeed.

>> The Dallas Mavericks are NBA champions.

The first title in franchise history.

>> One of America's most famous

professional sports owners is selling

his beloved team.

>> You've done a reality show. Just retired

from that. cashed out of the Maverick's

check. Kind of adds up to you're going

to run for president and no, there's no

>> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome

Mark Cuban.

[Music]

>> All right. Thanks for being here. God,

Mark, it feels like we've been doing

this for 30 years and we have.

>> And we have. I know.

>> We have um what

>> what GLP are you on?

>> Yeah. What What off menu items?

>> Looking pretty

>> none.

>> He's in retirement. Salad team

all the You really do look incredible.

Like you are you doing something?

>> I'm working out.

>> Yeah.

>> We want to know about the off the menu

items. We'll talk backstage.

>> There are no off-the-men items.

>> No off the menu items. Okay. Um nothing.

>> Just exercise. Huh. exercise and

watching what I eat. Yeah.

>> Um, what was more painful in the last

year? Kamla losing or Luca getting

traded?

>> Luca getting traded.

>> It's not even close. And No, I had

nothing to do with it.

>> We know. And you know, you sold the

team. You explained it 50 different ways

to Sunday, but there was this idea that

you would still be involved to some

extent.

>> Yeah. Ied up. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Unpack it.

>> Yeah. I mean, when I did the deal, the

presumption was that I would still be

running basketball. And we tried to put

it in the contract, but the NBA said the

governor is the governor and they make

all final decisions. And then, you know,

I was involved and then we went on this

run where we went to the finals and

rather than trying to interject myself

all the time, right, I was like, I don't

want to get in the way. We're we're

rolling. And that was a mistake, right?

So, it went there was some, you know,

some things that happened internally

where, you know, the person who traded

Luca didn't want me there. Um, and so

they won. I lost.

>> Yeah.

>> But that's that's in the past. I'm still

hardcore Mavs MFL.

>> A rare L for Mark.

>> No, there's been plenty of them. I just

try to minimize them.

>> Yeah.

>> U Mark, let's talk about um healthcare.

>> Uhhuh. You started a business that has

had a really profoundly disruptive

impact and it's compounding. Tell the

people the business you started and tell

them why you started it and why you just

think healthcare is broken.

>> Sure. So I got a cold email from a Dr.

Alex Ashmayansky and he wanted to create

what's called a compounding pharmacy

where um pharmacies can make drugs um

per order and it was right around the

time the farmer bro was going to jail

for jacking up the price of this generic

drug called Derapim. And I was like how

can he do this? Alex. And you know, in

investigating it, it became very clear

very quickly that no one knew what the

price of any medication was and there

was zero transparency. And so I was

like, this is wrong. So we got the URL

costdrugs.com

and we set it up so that when you go to

costplusdrugs.com,

costplusdrugs.com,

and you put in the name of the

medication, whatever it may be, we're

going to show you our actual cost. And

not only we going to show you our actual

cost, we're going to show you our

markup, which is only 15%. Plus for mail

order is $5 for shipping, $5 for the

pharmacist to review. And then we also

have the option of local pickup. Now,

what really created the change is we

were the first to ever do that. And even

to this day, three and a half years

later, nobody else publishes their price

list for medications. And so when you

think about health care, particularly

the financial side, nobody trusts it at

all. And in reality, you know, trust is

actually a formula in my mind. Trust

equals transparency divided by

self-interest. We were completely

transparent and in terms of

self-interest, only a 15% markup on

medications is fair and it's nothing.

And so, you know, I get emails all the

time like, you know, I was looking at

having to pay 900 or a,000 or 1,500 or

2,000 and your price is $21. But can you

but just explain that it's not as if

it's 21 versus 40 or 90. It's 21 versus

900. How does that happen?

>> Because it can you know if if you have

an entire industry of insurance

companies and the pharmacy benefit

managers that either own them or they

own controlling the flow the financial

flow in an entire healthcare industry

and it's completely opaque by design.

They get to charge what they want

because again unless you know to go to

cost plusdlessdrugs.com

you have no idea what your medic did I

say that right cost plusdrugs.com

I never I'm not a sales

>> person.com

segment brought to you by

>> Yeah right cost plusdrugs.com

um but unless you know to go check

pricing with us you're just walking in

and just hoping you can afford it and

the way the system is set up now you

know even at Medicare Advantage or

Medicare Part D will be cheaper than

your co-pay and particularly if it's co-

insurance. They one of the things that

the pharmacy benefit managers did that's

just a complete ripoff. They created

tiers of medications. And so there's

generic tiers, there's brand tiers. Um

but even in Medicare and Medic and

Medicare Advantage, they created these

things called specialty generics.

They're just pills. It's like a drug

called a matnib. All these multiple

sclerosis drugs. There's a long list of

them. But because they designated them

as special, they either use a co-

insurance or a very high co-pay. We

don't do any of that. So a big part of

our business is is people on Medicare

Advantage on Medicare Part D.

>> Drugs you can't get access to or you

can't compound or you can't make if

>> Yeah. There's certain drugs like the

biggest brand drugs, the Eloquists of

the world, we can't get access to them.

And the reason why we can't get access

to them is because those big PBMs, they

have these things called formularies

which determine the drugs that you're

allowed to have access to for 180

million plus people. And they've

literally told the brand manufacturers,

if you deal with cost plusdrugs.com,

we will diminish you on that formulary.

So instead of reaching 180 million

people and not just for the drugs they

work with us on, but for their entire

portfolio. Sounds like an antitrust

case.

>> Yes, it is.

>> But but Mark, like if this gets changed,

the PBM gets wiped out. First of all,

should the PBMs all get deleted? And if

they do get deleted,

>> what's going to happen in the

marketplace? Is there suddenly going to

be a big commoditization, more

competitors for your business, etc.

>> I don't care about the competition cuz

our markup's still going to be 15%. And

we're so AIdriven. We only have 70

people in the entire company and we

manufacture drugs and the whole nine

yards. if they're all wiped out or the

easier um approach is require that the

formularies are segregated from the PBMs

because all they really do is auction

off access to those formularies.

>> Yeah.

>> And when they do that

>> So do you think the PBM should be

deleted?

>> Well, there's pass through PBMs. I mean

the the that PBMs do are just

insane. Like if you wanted to go if your

company if you get your insurance from

your employer and they wanted to go to

Lily or Novo North to do a wellness

program to determine who's most suited

for GLP1s, they're not allowed to do

that. And on top of that, all

>> the reason is

>> because contractually they don't want

you

>> they get blocked out. They want you to

go direct.

>> They don't want you to go direct. M

>> and on top of that like you would think

it'd be valuable for the claims for all

the people who use you know Zepbound or

whatever the GLP wants to go to the

manufacturers so they can determine

adherence what's working you know issues

>> not allowed in fact they'll charge them

to get access to that. Are there things

that the the government agencies or next

round of legislation can do to take the

advantages of what you've learned and

apply it so that everybody can get the

benefit of this?

>> Well, have you talked to the

administration about that?

>> Um, I mean, I've talked to some people,

but then they say, "We're not going to

tell anybody. We talked to you." Um, but

you know, the simplest approach really

is just market driven. So, where you

guys get your insurance for yourselves,

for the besties, for the companies that

you guys work with out there, tell them

don't use one of the biggest, don't use

any of the big PBMs. Use these things

called pass through PBMs that allow you

to own your own claims, own your own

data, get the lowest price, etc. So,

there's a there are market solutions to

get there,

>> right?

>> Is the original sin in this country

tying healthcare to employers and making

them responsible for it? Is that what we

have to solve for?

>> No. Um the original sin is allowing the

these companies to become vertically

integrated and enormous. And so like

there's one big insurance company just

for intercomp transfers each year. It's

about $161 billion. That's.3% of our

GDP. They have gotten so large and so

vertically integrated that they can game

the entire system. You want your medical

loss ratio to be where it needs to be.

will then push the cost to, you know, to

the PBM. You want to increase your

profits here, you know, you want to make

your Medicare Advantage programs work,

game the system this way. The big

insurance companies, think about this,

right? We all have insurance or we're on

our parents insurance at some point, but

um the insurance company defines a plan,

right? And they set a premium and they

set a deductible and a max out of

pocket.

The less you make, the more likely

you're going to take a lower premium,

higher deductible. But excluding the

people on Medicaid,

40% of people can't afford a $400 bill,

right? Or expense. Yet, they're the ones

choosing the $2500, the $5,000

deductibles and the 9,000 out of

pockets. Which means for the insurance

companies that they know that they can't

afford to get the first le level of care

anywhere. they can't afford to go to the

hospital. So, the insurance company is

just keeping the premiums. And even if

you work for a company, let's say you

work for a company here in LA and your

net take-home, you know, is $35, $40,000

and you have a 2500 or $3,000 deductible

and you're playing basketball and you go

to dunk like Jason always does and

breaks his leg.

>> Yeah.

>> You're

>> Yeah.

>> You know, you're not going That's why my

fingers are like this, right? because

you know you just can't afford to go to

use your deductible. That's the problem

of the system. And as long as we have

these these companies that are so

vertically integrated and continue to

buy more and more companies so that they

can game the system even more and they

control the patient flow and they

control the the flow of drugs. So

there's an interesting um reaction

happening in the markets which is

self-directed healthcare. people are

opting to affluent people in some cases

higher premiums and saying you know what

I'll just

>> do my own blood work with superpower or

function I'm going to go um

>> you know take care of my own uh peptides

or I'm going to go to a compounding

pharmacy I'm going to go to row.com and

I'm going to get you know my whatever

>> you're spending too if you go to

rose.com let me just tell you for my

friends of my age right 90 toil cost

less than a cost less than a bag of

M&M's toil is generic seialis So, we

charge less than a bag of M&M. So, if

you go to Rose or Hims or those guys,

you're getting ripped off.

>> Mark, let me ask you. Uh,

>> but the self-directed

>> But the self-directed

>> Jason's going to change his

prescription.

>> I'll change my prescription. Right.

>> Um, um,

>> you just on the self-directed piece,

>> right? So, on that point, right? So,

we're creating a company called Cost

Plus Wellness that hasn't launched yet.

It'll hopefully launch at the end of

this month. And what we're doing is

we're going out there for my companies.

We're we're eating our own dog food and

we're setting up direct contracts with

8,000 providers at this point. And so

it's based off of cash pay because those

insurance companies not only rip off

patients, you know, and deny care, etc.,

etc., they also underpay providers and

all these other things and they have to

respond

>> and they underpay doctors, too. Um, and

so what we're doing is we're going out

there negotiating these cash prices with

with terms that pay we'll pay on a cash

basis. But what's different about it

when we launch, we're going to publish

all those contracts because there's

absolutely no transparency whatsoever on

the insurance side. Companies don't know

what they're doing. They're permitted

from having discussions with each other

to compare notes. So, we'll publish the

contract. Just to to wrap that point on

cost plus uhdrugs.com,

you're not going to this isn't going to

impact your economics personally in any

way. You're doing this because hey,

maybe as a third act, you see this as a

way to give back to

>> I want to up healthare. Who here

thinks the financial side of healthcare

is great?

>> Nobody. It's a mess. Right. And so

>> you're doing this to prove a point to

help people

>> because it's fixable.

>> Yes.

>> Right. It's fixable. But politicians got

to do what politicians do, right? Even

with the president.

>> Have you gone to DC since President

Trump? I know you were campaigning for

Kla Harris.

>> Have you been to DC since the election?

>> Yeah, one time

>> you have and and how did it go? And our

experience look maybe maybe we're a

little bit influential or whatever

because of various relationships, but

like everyone we speak to like it's an

open door policy. The the administration

is listening to everyone on all of these

important issues and we're hearing this

from industry leaders from both sides of

get them to move, right, is different,

right? Because the president and

actually his MFN EO was great, right? No

whatsoever. The problem is like we

literally went to manufacturers and we

said, "Take the PBMs out and if you take

the PBMs out and sell to us at a higher

price than what you're selling to the

big PBMs and just let us mark it up only

our 15%." Our price will be close to all

the European countries that the MFN

wants to compare to. because you know

the difference between the our countries

and theirs they don't have PBMs right so

we we went I went to CMS and told them

we would do these things right then we

started talking to the manufacturers

then the manufacturers backed off and

CMS knew they backed off you know why

they backed off they were more afraid of

the PBMs and being removed from

formularies than they were of Donald

Trump

>> I even wrote a letter for them to give

to the president explaining all that now

whether or not they ever gave it to him

I don't know but It it's crazy that they

would rather piss off Donald Trump and

make the EO not happen because it's been

a lot longer than 90 days and we haven't

seen a single drug that falls under the

MFN.

>> Mark, if you look, you you've had a lot

of chapters in your life, very

successful. Um, but if you are able to

crack this, it will obviously not just

be a great service for people, but you

will build an immense amount of social

and political capital. And you know, we

mentioned this backstage, but some folks

have whispered and said, you know, when

we ask who is the leader of the

Democratic party, you know, and they say

they say it's Mark Cuban.

>> Eric Swallowwell said this on our show.

>> That was a long time ago.

>> Mark, can you just can you just

transition and just talk about that,

which is um where is the Democratic

Party? If you're able to get this done,

how can you sort of reinvigorate that

side of the

>> I don't care about the Democratic Party?

People think I'm a Democrat. I'm not.

>> I think you're a Democrat.

>> I'm not. If it were up to me, I'd kick

both parties to the curb. I think both

parties suck, right?

>> I'm with that. Moderates and

independents. Common sense.

>> So, does that mean you're pro- America

party? If you were advising Elon, would

you tell him stay out of the Republican

party? Just try to win some seats for

common sense. And would you back him

with the American?

>> Depends on, you know, the policies and

who the politicians were. But yeah, I

said I tweeted or posted, "Yes, I'm wide

open to that. We need to look at each

indiv individual situation for its own

merits. Yeah. Right. I just don't care

about either party, you know, both like

the Republican party isn't the

Republican party anymore. It's the Trump

family business. And the Democratic

party doesn't even exist anymore

because, you know, they don't even know

what they're doing and there's nobody in

charge, right? They both suck.

>> Do you do you get calls from uh

Democratic leadership saying, "What

should we do? Give us

>> Yeah.

>> And what do you say? start all I well

basically what I tell them is you have

to learn how to sell they have no idea

how to sell I'll give you a perfect

example right right now with um the

enhanced ACA credits subsidy credits are

set to expire at the end of this year

right that when they expire for 12 and a

half million people

>> these are the Obamacare healthcare

credits

>> right right for the ACA right and so

when they expire let's just take a

family of five from the from the state

of Texas the great state of Texas,

$125,000 in income, three kids. By the

time you look at all their adjustable

gross income and all that kind of stuff,

their net federal tax rate is 3.3%.

Their effective tax rate 3.3%. That same

family, right, if they lose their um the

enhanced credits because they're

eligible for them, they their monthly

payments will go from $880 give or take

per month to about $2,300 a month. So

that delta $1,500 a month that's $18,000

a year that that's you know 20%

that's a 20% tax increase now that's

right in front of the Democrats to jump

all over when it comes to you know all

the stuff that's coming up right yet not

a single word that this is the biggest

increase in the history of tax increases

ever and so they're not cognizant of

just the obvious things and then the

Republicans aren't cognizant of it

either. there because they've got to

realize that you are about to screw over

12 a.5 million people in a way they've

never been screwed over before.

You know, it's just right there right in

front of them and and nobody's paying

attention to like and we wonder, you

know,

>> what do they say when when you point

this out to Democratic leadership that

calls you? What's the response?

>> That's a good point.

>> Yeah.

[Laughter]

And it seems like they're leaning into

this ban the billionaires social.

>> Yeah. And that's so stupid. I had that

conversation the other day. 942 or

however many people. Look, it's like the

Mandami thing, right? They haven't

learned from 10 years of Trump. Mandami

is just Trump progressive progressive

version, right? You just say what people

want to hear. You want rent control?

Yeah, I'll give you rent control, right?

You want free transportation? Got it.

Right? You want grocery stores paid for

by the government? Done. That's Trump

101. You know, and so they he has

figured it out.

>> Yeah.

>> The rest of them have not.

>> Yeah.

>> I think this might be a good time to

bring out our stay here, Mark. But I

think we want to bring out

>> I want we want to introduce you to a

friend of ours who are

>> Let's just add one more bestie. Let's

add a best surprise. Come on out.

Surprise bestie coming out. Tucker Carl.

[Music]

[Applause]

And it's in.

>> I'll give you a hug.

>> Thank you.

>> Gentlemen,

>> all right.

>> I think you guys are on the couch next

to each other. But actually, this what

what Mark

>> the right and the left hand. Mark raised

an interesting question there which is

curious to get your your take Tucker

which is where's the line in democracy

Tucker between

>> giving the people what they want which

is democracy versus what Mark seems to

be saying which is pandering to them or

something or offering something that

>> where is the line I mean I can identify

it it's at cost plusddrugs.com

>> happening

>> I was I was thinking backstage like

>> this is one smart way how do I meet my

SS SRI needs like let's say you need I

don't know a pallet of benzo

plusdrugs.com.

>> Um

>> I would say I I would say that that

falls on the kind of radical democracy

end of the spectrum which I oppose. Uh,

no. I mean, it's a balance. Obviously,

the founding documents reflect the

balance that the founders, for all their

sort of overhyped genius, they really

were geniuses actually, and they thought

deeply about this. And how do you not

devolve into this the ugliest form of

democracy, which inevitably leads to

tyranny where you're just like taking

payoffs and seeking affirmation from the

mob, and the oligarchy that is that the

other extreme?

And clearly we're on sort of like or

were up until Trump's election sort of

at one end where there was no

demonstrable effort by the government to

meet like the basic desires of the

population doing just the opposite.

There was never like any effort to pull

people like hey would you like 40

million new Americans? Like no one's for

that in any country ever. And they just

sort of gave it to you and shouted you

down whether you wanted it or not. Hey,

maybe we should, you know, the real

problem is the Houthies.

Okay. Oh, the Houthies. All right. As my

father said to me growing up, just

beware of the Houthies.

Ancient ancient enemy of our people.

Like what? And they would just sort of

present these things or Putin is bad.

You got to hate Putin. Really? I don't

really have strong feeling. Shut up,

Russian tool or whatever. This is even

before I love Putin. I was like, what

are you even talking about? Um so in

place of sort of the the actual organic

desires of the people which are never

that different from society to society,

peace, prosperity, hope of a better

future for your children, the promise of

grandchildren, not just sterility. Um in

place of those they manufacture these

things you're supposed to want. So

that's obviously like way on the other

side of what we think of as just basic

responsive government. Are we going too

far otherw I don't know we're not even a

year in but that is the tension.

>> Tucker I want to get your reaction to

what Mark said. Mark characterized

Mandani as uh Trump on the left like

he's taken the Trump playbook and

inverted it and applied it in a more you

know with leftist rhetoric. Do you agree

with that characterization? What what is

working in Mumani and what is the same

and different versus

>> Well, I mean I'm not an expert on

Mandani. I don't know him. I've tried to

interview him a bunch of times because I

think it'd be interesting. Um, there's

clearly something there, right? It's and

it's not just about hating Israel or the

foreign policy stuff. I don't I refuse

to believe that's the core of it. I

think it's part of it, but I think the

core of it is just economic frustration.

And I think this is a marker for what

we're going to see a whole lot more of,

which is economic populism. That's the

actual next chapter that's going to

scare the out of everyone in this

room. And I get it. I'm not even calling

for it. I'm just saying when your kids

can't buy a house or even dream of

buying a house when they're buying Door

Dash on credit, you're ripe for some

kind of revolution. And the question is,

is it a violent one,

God forbid, or is it a kind of sincere

Bernie Sanders? But either way, you're

going to get some kind of massive

reaction to that because that is a core

human need.

>> What's the impact of social media in all

this? Because I think one thing that

another thing that Madami and Trump have

in common is they know how to make the

algorithms work in their favor.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, when Trump talks about they're

eating cats and dogs,

>> which I don't think they were, by the

way.

>> Well, maybe one person was, right? But

it was certainly

>> okay. Maybe one person.

>> So that's not a thing.

>> Eating one dog is too many. If being

American means anything, if you could

boil down a national creed to one

statement is no dog eating here. What

about cats?

>> I'm agnostic on cats, but like no dog

me.

>> Yeah, cats are pricks.

>> That's like a foundational principle.

>> Well, no, but if if if it is about

wages, if it is about affording a home,

let's put the uh political parties

aside, what's the path forward, Mark

Tucker, of maybe letting the bottom

third believe in America again? Should

we raise the minimum wage? Do we need to

have a Manhattan project to do something

as easy as build five million homes? I

mean, we live in the great state of

Texas. They build homes like you

wouldn't believe. And rents have gone

down in Texas three years in a row. I

mean, there are solutions to these

problems. What should we solve for as a

country? Politics aside, if we had a top

two or three things, what do we need to

solve? Mark and then Tucker, same for

you.

>> I think we've forgotten about

entrepreneurs.

>> Yeah. You know, I think that's one of

the challenges of the tariffs that we

hear about $500 billion investment, $600

billion investment, $2 trillion,

whatever in aggregate investment, but we

don't talk about the 10% effective or 15

or 20% effective tariffs and the impact

on small businesses. And not just from

the actual tariffs per se, but from the

friction that they create for the

companies trying to run their companies,

right? Um, like for my Shark Tank

companies, it's put several out of

business. And when you hear the

president talk about them, I understand

he's trying to work on a macro basis.

That's that's what he's trying to do.

That's fine. But for, you know, there's

33 million companies, 30 million of them

are solarreneurs. You know, there's only

22,000 companies that have 500 or more

employees. 60% of new jobs are created

by small companies. I think they're

being ignored. And to your point, if

he's able to reduce friction in terms of

zoning, in terms of um anything else

that makes it more difficult to run,

whether it's using AI or whatever it may

be, um then I start I think the American

spirit takes over, right? You guys are

entrepreneurs. You're an entrepreneur.

You know that you know the ideas are

there. The people who want to implement

those ideas are what makes this. You can

go around the world and they don't talk

about the French dream, the, you know,

the Houthy dream. They talk about the By

way,

>> over lunch, the French government

collapsed. I understand. Yeah, I saw

that. Um, but they talk about the

American dream. That's what makes this

country great. That's what makes this

country different. And I think for a

long time now, we've forgotten about

those entrepreneurs.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree.

>> Well, Tucker, what do you got on the

short list?

>> I mean, I I think housing is like the

core of kind of everything. you know,

where you live is like one of the

central questions of your life. I don't

think it's actually about housing. It's

about autonomy.

>> Actually, both sides want to subvert it.

The left is always talking about

housing. The unhoused as if the core

problem with homelessness is we don't

have enough like, you know, section 8

highdensity buildings or something. It's

nothing to do with that. And the right

talks about it like even to address the

question is to sort of buy into the

Mammi program. You're a socialist or

something. Yeah. And no, I think the

material condition of your people is

like a really big deal and you should

focus on it. It doesn't make you a

socialist at all. I am not a socialist

obviously. And then they go too far.

Like I don't think you know building

condos in Yellowstone either is the

answer. We have way too many people in

the country. So like the big like the

topline numbers really matter. How many

people live here? Well, we don't

actually know the answer,

>> right?

>> Trump told me directly he thought it was

50 million. He's the president of the

United States. doesn't know how many

people whose identities we don't really

know live here, which is a little weird

in a time of facial recognition. Like, I

have to have my nose scanned to get on

an airplane, but like we don't know

who's here. I call But

whatever, we don't know. But we do know

that. And you know, from traveling that

how many people a country has determines

the nature of the country almost more

than anything, right? I mean, this kind

of why like the places you go on

vacation are not densely populated. So

we need to articulate just like the

obvious supply and demand principles out

loud.

>> Don't we have more fundamental issues

than that though?

>> There's no more fundamental issue than

who lives in your country. Dude,

>> there is. Right. Because

>> Okay.

>> Because if you want if you want

>> the cost of prescription drugs.

>> No, but if you want the birth rates to

go up,

>> I may have an answer to that, Mark.

>> Thank you. What was the name of the

place?

>> Costplus.com. Smart.

>> For your drug needs. I'm Cal

Worththington.

>> Yeah. Sorry. But if you can't afford to

live here, you can't afford kids, right?

If if you can't afford healthare.

>> Mark, let me ask you a question.

>> What's your take on whether we should be

sending money to Ukraine or not? Were

you in favor of that?

>> Man, they need it.

>> I mean, honestly, I don't have a good

answer. You know, I can make an argument

both ways. And half my family is

Ukrainian on my from my grandparents.

And so, you know, personally, I think we

should help. Um, but I don't have a

studied answer for you.

>> Have you How much money have you sent to

Ukraine?

>> None.

>> Oh, so what do you mean by we?

>> You're the one whose family's from

Ukraine. Like, why don't you send them a

billion dollars?

>> Because I'm trying to fix healthcare.

>> Well, why don't you fix their

healthcare? If you're like so deep, if

you think we need to help, why don't you

start? How about you first?

>> I noticed that's never like even an

option for anybody. It's like we need to

help. That's not what charity is.

Forcing other people to help is not

charity.

The good news is all the weapons were on

loan lease. We're getting it back. And

>> our dear President Trump has negotiated

that we own half the minerals. So he

turned this horrible tragedy of a war

into a profit center, which is one of

his unique gifts. I think we can all

agree. C

>> can I can I just follow up on the like

the another alternative root cause and

I've harped on this a lot. Federal

spending. uh ultimately if the federal

deficit remains as it is 6 and a half%

of GDP we're printing money the Federal

Reserve has to buy all the treasuries to

fund the b the the government that money

printing and all of those inefficient

programs for lending for housing lending

for student loans spending on stuff that

has no ROI etc etc ultimately leads to

inflation and leads to everything

becoming unaffordable.

Is it not an option? How much do you

both care about or think about reigning

in the federal spending and having those

kind of pointed conversations about the

importance of this? And

>> go ahead, Tucker. You look like

>> I mean I think about it a lot. I think

about the devaluation of the dollar. I

think about it's just not worth as much.

And I know that in my own I'm not an

investor. I don't invest in anything.

But in the things that I buy with an eye

to retaining value, they're physical

things. I just don't believe in any of

this at all. And um so I I caught myself

the other day and I I'm at such a low

sort of level compared to everyone else

here. I'm not especially rich, but like

I had a little bit of extra money and

I'm like it really was like the VHimar

impulse like I got to buy something soon

before I lose

>> before the dollar is worth less.

>> Yeah. I mean everyone everyone I know

and I live in a very rural area and I

most of my friends are crazy but

>> people I know are thinking in terms of

like land, gold, ammo. Like I don't

think that water I don't think that's

No, I mean are you really laughing

>> or are you tittering nervously?

>> Um cuz you know that's not insane.

That's

>> right.

>> So I own a ton of Bitcoin first and

foremost, right? A kind of a kind of a

hedge. Um and have probably five years

now. Yeah.

>> Um but we do need to cut costs and I'm

hoping AI is a a path there. you know,

government as a service, AI as a

service, reducing the number of people

it takes to get things done.

Understanding that laws that were

written in the six, and this is kind of

the abundance thing, right? Laws that

were written in the 60s that are still

in place don't apply now. It's kind of

like the government version of the

innovator's dilemma. We have to modify

things that are in place already so we

can start to optimize. And I think we

haven't done that in a long, long time.

And I don't think it's we're in the

process of changing that right now. But

may I ask and I'm not against anything

you said. I mean I'm for technoctoratic

solutions to moral problems too. But

>> I wonder Just kidding. I'm wondering

what the aim is. It seems like with any

project like you begin by articulating

your goal,

>> right?

>> Which is like one thing America is super

bad at. It's like if you want to get to

the moon, say so. And then if you don't

get there, just fake it or whatever like

we did. But

but it begins with again kidding. But it

begins with saying what the goal is.

Like what kind of society do you want?

No, but you never I'm not attacking you

at all.

>> I do think you should money to Ukraine,

but I I think it's we're all at fault.

It's all like, well, how can we do this

more efficiently? Well, do what? Like,

in the end, I want to live in a society

where people live in single family homes

with little lawns that they own that are

not going to be taken away from them.

Like actual property rights, not

theoretical properties like my house.

Okay. I want married people and I want

them to have children and grandchildren

with the rough assurance the future of

course being fundamentally unknown but

rough assurance that like it'll kind of

be the same radical change all the time

drives people insane

radical change to do

>> it's not radical change dude I grew up

in this city I don't recognize it I'm

only 56 that's radical change

>> what you talking about Los Angeles

>> yeah like what is this

>> look you can go in any any decade any

generation during Rick

>> Cruz says No, there's never been there

has never been population. Okay, then I

dare you then, cuz I know you're a

historian.

>> Give me another example other than the

mass rape by the Mongols of population

change like what we've seen in the West

over the past 50 years. You can't cuz

there isn't one in all recorded history.

So, you can be for it or against it, but

you can't say

>> answering their own questions.

>> I that way I get to the right answer. I

just answer my own questions. Yeah,

>> this is a monologue posing as a colloqu.

>> Let me uh let let me uh bring us to AI

job displacement. It's been a big debate

we've been having on the pod. We all

know

>> that AI is going to replace a large

number of jobs.

>> Do we know that? I don't know.

>> Well, any self-driving car replaces four

or five drivers full-time positions.

That's industry.

>> But there could be different jobs.

>> Well, okay, we're going to get to that.

But for our guests, do you think we're

going to have a job displacement that

could be acute? And how should we handle

that? Because we're seeing people make

Optimus robots. The idea that any human

is going to be in a factory sorting

things, and all the factories we're

making today are designed explicitly to

not have humans in it. We may be talking

about bringing back and shuring factory

jobs. That's not happening. All the new

factories are going to be run by robots.

We all know that. They're lights out

facilities. So what's the best worst

case scenario here in terms of

management?

>> Can I give you the upside please?

>> And that and everyone knows this but

like you know the IBEDW is fine like

your electrician will still exist. We've

got 1 million lawyers and a little fewer

than 1 million lawyers in the United

States and a lot of them are just so and

I think it's just so great to think of

unemployable. No, I'm serious. So it's

going to I do think to some extent it's

going to affect the worst most entitled

most annoying classes of people. Okay.

So that's an upside. I don't want to see

any other working class people. So can I

see there's one thing

>> you can you can displace farm workers.

What are they going to do about it? You

can displace factory workers. They'll

just kill themselves with drugs and fast

food, which they have done. And you'll

feel sort of guilty, but then ignore it.

If you do that to lawyers and nonprofit

sector employees who I lived around in

DC, you will get a revolution. And I

mean that. I'm dead ser. Where did Paul

come from? where I mean there's never

been a revolution that wasn't fermented

by frustrated members of the sort of

insurgent class. It's totally true.

Subarristocrat, but the striving class,

the most repulsive people there are, I

think we fair to say, but also the most

intent on getting what they want. And if

you put them out of business, I mean,

I'm not joking at all. I think

>> we're seeing this. We're seeing this

already. And one could argue that the

Mandani election surge may be the result

of young people coming out of colleges

that were in that exact same situation.

>> Driving elite and they don't have

>> and and they were told that if they take

on $400,000 of debt, they'll end up

making a good living and progressing in

life buying a home. And all of that

turned out to not be true. So, I got two

kids in college and what I tell them is

if you were looking for a job at a big

company, you're not going to get it,

right?

>> Because the big companies can implement

their what they need to do with AI in

the short term. The small to middlesize

companies need all the help they can get

from AI um natives, right? Because

walking in and understanding AI and

being able to implement for that company

is a huge step forward to them. So I

think that's one way to where where we

will adjust. Number two, right, the

tools you have as someone in college,

there's no better time to be in college

or just graduating than right now

because you have more resources

available to you in your phone than

anybody in the history of everything,

right? Because if you want to be an

entrepreneur, if you want to do whatever

it is, you have every expert that's

right there available to you. And it's

not going to go as far as you think in

the short term, but in the long term it

comes down to robotics because the

electrical workers, if robotics do what

robotics need to do, they're right

because here's the disconnect right now

that I think people don't understand in

AI. On one hand, we we're so used to the

large language models, right? But those

are all text driven. They don't know

anything that's happening here. They

can't acquire all this video. They can't

adapt. There's a huge lat latency and

it's all text and all their IP is being

siloed, right? they're going to have to

pay for it. So, they'll all have their

own specialties. A lawyer, large,

there'll be millions of large language

models. Robotics, on the other hand,

it's not even so much about self-driving

cars or what I use in the factories of

cost plus drugs. It's about in your

house. It's about walking down the

streets. It's about doing those things.

So, if you tell you have to get to a

point, we have to get to a point for it

to be impactful where you can say to a

robot, "Clean the house."

>> And they'll know not to touch Jason's

socks. Right? And they'll know, right?

The whole idea is robots use video and

they capture and they have to be able to

process that video which means

understanding the laws of physics which

>> yeah would you let a robot with a video

camera in your house honestly.

>> Yes. Right. And beyond that right houses

>> very self-confident man aren't you?

>> Right. Houses are going to be redesigned

cuz right now when we design houses and

we design robots we design them to work

for us

>> and the optimal robots aren't going to

look anything like us at all. Mark,

>> we're running. Hold on. We're running

out of time.

>> Lightning round.

>> Was Epstein a spy?

>> No. No.

>> Is Putin.

>> We're going to stay with Tucker now.

>> We're going to stay with Tucker for a

little bit.

>> We're going to stay with Tucker. Okay.

You gave it away, man. Now, let's thank

Mark Cuban. Everybody Tucker's going to

stay.

>> Tucker's going to stay for a little bit.

Sorry.

>> Great job, brother.

>> Okay, Tucker. Now, you get your own

segment here. All right. So, I need to I

need to get these answers. Okay. cost

plusdrugs.com.

>> Yes. Was Epstein a spy? Is Putin a war

criminal? And what was Saxs like in

college? Go.

>> Was Epste a spy? No. I mean, I don't

think I mean, I don't know. I I do know

a lot about the story. I don't think he

was a conventional. He wasn't like an

asset or something. He did a ton of work

on behalf of intel agencies. American

>> work on behalf of intel.

>> Yes. Well, no question. He was involved

in Ron Contra.

>> American, French, Israeli, pro probably

British. I mean I you know but

>> but there are a lot of I know I know a

million people and so do you

>> in that category

>> which is most people who travel a lot

>> okay now

>> know a lot of people are doing

>> war criminal

>> let me define war criminal a war

criminal is anybody who kills the

innocent

>> and that's what terrorism is that's what

a war crime is the basis of western

justice is that we punish the guilty

okay

>> we punish people as individuals not as

groups because we don't believe in, you

know, in blood guilt. We don't believe

in collective punishment. And so, by

that standard, you know, there are very

few are innocent. I'm not being a

relativist here. I'm just, but I think

it's really important to define the

term. And just to say it again, a war

crime and terrorism have this have the

same root crime, which is punishing the

innocent. Period. And if there's one

thing that Western civilization exists

to uphold, it's his sense of fairness

and justice. And it's rooted in that. We

punish the guilty. We do not punish the

guilty's relatives. We don't punish

people who look like the guilty, from

the same place as the guilty. We punish

the individual because we believe that

all people are fundamentally equal, not

in their aptitude, but in their value

because they're all created by God. That

is the West. The West. The West. We're

fighting to uphold the Western val. No.

What is it then? That's what it is. And

so to the extent you fall short of that,

yes, you were a criminal. Period.

>> Now, most importantly, what was Sax like

in college? take us back to

>> totally out of control. You know, I

never

>> It's funny. People are always like, "If

you mix cocaine and iawasa,

>> it's really hard to stand on the roof of

a moving car." And I'm like, "Yeah, that

makes sense."

>> Until you see someone do it.

>> Absolutely. But more importantly, if you

bang one of these,

>> you don't want to hear more.

>> Where are we at? Are you No, we're going

to get there. But are I want to be on

the same level as you. Are you banging

nines or threes right now? I don't want

to say on the grounds it'll make me seem

impossibly cool, but nine is obvious.

>> Here you go. You get a chilled. What do

you got? What are you packing? I know

you got some.

>> I pack and I I'm not allowed to make any

medical claims though. These do cure

illness.

>> These make a god.

>> I can just tell you these make you a

god, but what do you got? Come on, toss.

You got to share.

>> It's my version of costbd drugs.com.

>> Oh, wow.

>> Nectaroo

nines. Yes, I have one in 12. Let's go.

I've used nicotine for 41 years.

>> Come on, Sax. Get on the level.

>> Is going to become so difficult this

afternoon.

>> Oh, man.

>> You know, uh,

>> it's crazy what they do. You know, the

health benefits are insane. I never go

to the doctor. I eat a lot of pizza.

>> I never intentionally exercise. I'm 56

open

>> and I feel great. And I mean that. And I

mean, you look great in Okay, I need to

get this back on the rails. I need to

get this back on the rails. Okay, back

on the rails. Tucker, uh, I I would like

to go around the world in the 11 minutes

that we have and just get your reaction

to a bunch of different things. Okay,

let's start in Europe, uh, UK and then

just continental Europe. What has

happened?

>> I feel like all of those nations, the

Anglophere specifically, but Western

Europe in general is poised for massive

change, and I just hope it ends

peacefully. But the story in the West is

population change. Period. That's the

story. And following from that comes

cultural and political change. And it's

always painful. I don't think it's

always bad personally, but at the scale

it's happening, it's happened way too

fast. And there will either be, you

know, like a true reaction of the kind

that none of us want to see or there

will be full totalitarian clampdown.

What was at the root of for example

there was a post on X that said that

Canada's population increased by 30% in

like the last 7 years.

>> Yeah.

>> 35 35%

>> 35%

>> 10 years

>> in the UK when you know you look

>> simultaneous with government sponsored

suicide where native Canadians are

encouraged to kill themselves at

government expense for non-terminal

illnesses up to and including economic

distress. And that's sponsored by the

government. It's called the Maids

program. It's the darkest thing that's

happened since Europe in the 30s. We're

instructed to ignore it. The government

advertises it in conjunction with

private businesses in Canada. And it's

like, it's one of those things where

your grandkids, assuming you have them,

are going to ask you like, "What was

that? And why didn't anybody say

anything about it?" I gave a speech in

Canada recently and mentioned it. I

started with it cuz it's like so

mesmerizingly horrifying

>> and people just like stared at me like,

"I don't think we're supposed to talk

about that." It's like the the

brainwashing is so generational and

crazy that they can't even notice when

people are dying at the behest of the

government. The behest, by the way.

>> And to be clear what we're talking

about, assisted suicide, end of life

suicide, you can go in, you can set a

date,

>> not for the terminally ill, for like the

bummed out or veterans who don't have

adequate housing, we'll kill you for

free. And they are pushing that program.

And thousands of people have died. And

the they of course they don't release

most of the numbers, but they did

release numbers this summer that showed

it's like a 100% native Canadian.

>> Yeah.

>> Because people who show up there from

Gatra was like, "Why would I kill

myself? This is awesome." Like they have

the spirit of life in them.

>> And what is that? It's not just the

government. I mean, there's something

going on with Western populations that

is suicidal and they're participating in

it.

>> You think that's related to fertility

and birth rates?

>> It's a fertility and birth rates, their

decline reflect the change that I'm

describing, which is very obvious. I

spent a lot of time in Europe for a

bunch of reasons and I have family there

and it's like I I was just there and

it's like I can't even not believe this

is happening. Why doesn't anybody say

anything?

>> There was a survey that was just

published today. I I got to pull it up

but it uh surveyed um 12 things ranked

them in order of importance. Men that

voted for Trump number one was having

children. Women that voted for Kamla

number 12 out of 12.

>> And do you remember the percentage this

is women who voted for Kers? American

women asked your priorities. What

percentage said having children was an

interest of theirs?

>> What was it?

>> 6%.

>> Why?

>> So that's suicide. That's that's you're

watching the end of something. That's

people voluntary.

>> Is it a deep pessimism about society? Is

it a deep depression that I can't

progress in life? Where is it? I think I

mean yes. Yes. Of of course that's what

it is. But I mean that's without

precedent really. Even in the final

years of the Soviet Union, there was no

indication that it was that bad. And but

it is reflective of what a defeated

empire does

>> like a defeated peoples. But I

personally think there's something

bigger going. Why is it happening in New

Zealand? Why is it happening in Ireland?

These are not colonial power. Ireland

was never a colonial power. They were

colonized. South Korea

>> Korea which if you spend time in

>> by the way a Korean friend of mine said

to me in 50 years there will be only

North Korea.

>> Are these all just post-industrial? Is

that what they are? Versus rising

industrial. It's not happening in

Africa. It's not happening in parts of

South Asia that are either opposite the

opposite. You

>> feel the life force when you go

>> fertility rates or birth rates in Africa

I think are like six to seven

>> but the global south more broadly that

is true and what middle east but yeah I

mean there are lots of causes but

there's a spiritual route I mean the

secular places are killing themselves

>> and the religious place it's not

happening with orthodox Jews in Burough

Park.

>> Does the industrialization kill

religion?

>> The atom bomb killed religion. Hiroshima

killed killed killed the west because of

course you're God now and every every

assumption we've made since August of

1945 80 years ago has been based on the

core often unstated belief that we're in

full control of nature

>> it's also why we became so deeply

technopessimistic I think

>> well I think there's some evidence to

support that pessimism I this is

something that the Japanese people can

kind of teach us from because the last

two times I was there two different

people said they weren't having kids I

asked why and they said it's immoral to

bring children into a world of global

climate change and that it would just be

totally immoral because the temperatures

are rising and and I was just like are

these people been hallucinating like

>> well they don't even go through the

steps required to have children in the

first place

>> right

>> so like any society where people have to

be encouraged to have sex

>> is a society that has decided to

extinguish itself because that's like

the most that's like honestly that's

like being Bobby sands and starving

yourself to death. That's like you're at

war with nature. You've decided my most

basic impulses must be overridden,

>> right?

>> In the service of what? Death.

>> And so I I've never been a super

religious person. I'm certainly becoming

one. That's for sure. At high speed just

in reaction to watching what's

happening. And I think it's the darkest

thing that's happened in a thousand

years at least.

>> We were talking about SSRIs earlier.

What's your take on this medication of

everybody with these anti-depressants

>> legal immediately SSRIs? I mean, don't

get me going, but let me just say, and I

say this, I should say as a sober person

who doesn't use deodorant and doesn't

believe in any of that stuff. I don't

take any pills ever. Um, you have to be

as crazy as I am to wonder like what is

the what is necessary do? Well, we've

been taught falsely that they correct a

chemical imbalance. Okay, if it's an

imbalance, what's the baseline? There's

no answer to that. What's the actual

diagnosis of say bipolar disorder?

Unknown. There is none.

>> No.

>> So on the basis of that's not science at

all. That's witchcraft.

>> It's a questionnaire.

>> But on the basis of it, they prescribe

drugs which do not correct a chemical

imbalance. They limit emotional range.

And limiting emotional range is taking

someone's soul. Emotional range is your

soul. Like that's what it is. You feel

sad when someone dies. You feel joyful

when something great happens. That's

what it is to be alive. That's called

>> the human experience. So, by the way,

the effects of this unintended but very

common effects include genital amnesia.

You know what that is? That's when you

feel nothing between your knees and your

navl permanently. And there are tens of

thousands, probably hundreds of

thousands cuz 1/5if of the entire

American population is on SSRIs

>> who feel nothing

>> who are permanently sexually disabled by

these drugs. Now, are there people you

know or I know personally who were going

to kill themselves and they got on an

SRI and they didn't? That's a massive

success. Thank God for that. There is no

indication ever for prescribing an SSRI

for 5 years, 10 years. Same with benzo

which are also prescribed. Same with

empmphetamines that we give to our

children. The whole country is adultled

on drugs and it's changing the nature of

people and making them into something

that is less than people and it should

be banned immediately.

>> 100% agree.

>> I think it's crazy that it's happening.

I mean, we're giving kids speed. We're

giving them meth and good people are

doing it. people I know that I'm related

to who love their who would die for

their children are told by doctors air

quotes doctors who know nothing about

the long-term effects because they've

never been studied to put their kids on

meth and they do because they love their

children.

>> I want to I want to make sure we we get

to a couple of other things. Tucker,

just react to what happened this weekend

in Charlotte on the train with the woman

who was stabbed by

>> I think it's got to be a turning point.

I mean I I think that the number one

thing you don't want

>> How can there be just a coordinated

suppression? How does that happen?

>> Well, that's, you know, this is how

people wind up with really dark theories

about what's happening because why would

you suppress that if a young woman, by

the way, Ukrainian? I I wish I I wish

cost plusdrugs.com was here so I could

ask him, but like if you really

>> cost plusdlessdrugs.com

I wish I could ask if you care about the

Ukrainian people. One was just stabbed

to death on a train for being white. Why

doesn't anybody say it? Where all the

Where's Bill Crystal on this? Like we

love the Ukrainians. one just got

stabbed in the neck on public

transportation and no one cares. Like

what? I don't I don't have an answer to

your question. I will say that the one

thing you have to worry about in a

multi-thnic society is ethnic conflict

because it's enduring. It doesn't go

away. It's generational and we are

moving toward that. She was stabbed

because she was white and everyone knows

that actually. And knowing that and not

being able to say anything about it

because you fear you're going to be

called names doesn't make the problem go

away. It makes you move to Bosezeman and

it makes the problem worse.

>> And that's what you're seeing. Everyone

I know who can afford it is moving to

Bosezeman or Jackson or, you know, Sun

Valley or whatever. But they all have

one thing in common. Okay, let's just

stop lying.

>> And I don't like that.

>> Okay. Because that suggests a future of

ethnic conflict, which is like ask

anybody from a country that has ask a

Belgian. Belgium has ethnic conflict.

This is inherent to the human condition

and you want to be very thoughtful in

trying to avoid it and things like that

exacerbate it like to a crazy crazy

animal level that

>> Tucker let me just ask do you three

three parts to this but short

>> do you believe that there is rising

anti-semitism in the west and why do

people say that you are contributing to

it why has that become

>> well I think there's rising

anti-semitism on the left and right

there's definitely rising anti-semitism

for sure. And I hate it.

>> You don't have to believe me, but

>> you hate it on the record, right?

>> Of course I hate it.

>> Yeah, because there's a lot of social

media, a lot of this coordinated effort

from large industry groups saying Tucker

Carlson is an anti-semite. Why is that

the case?

>> Attacking my children over it. Yeah, I

I'm aware.

>> Yeah.

>> Um and I actually called an Israeli

official who I know, I know a bunch of

them, including the prime minister, and

said, "Why are you doing this to me? If

you think I'm your enemy, man, you're

you're really out to lunch." And they're

totally out to lunch. and they I've

never seen anybody um mismanage anything

the way the government of Israel is

mismanaging the response to what's

happening in Gaza and the West Bank. And

the way to the way to and it's not my

country, but I'm just noticing that this

is really bad for everybody. Two things.

One, you have to be willing if I stand

up and say, you know, I'm an American.

My family's been here for 300 years, 400

years, and I love this country, but my

government's done a lot of horrible

things. No one's like, you hate America.

If you're like, I love Israel and I like

Israel. I'm a visitor to Israel,

frequent visitor to Israel and but this

is not good. Shut up. That's not helpful

at all. Like you turn your allies into

enemies by acting that way. A B

conflating a nation state with an ethnic

group is not a long-term strategy. It's

not wise because you are tied to the to

the temporal politics, the politics of

the moment. like BB's political I don't

hate BB but his political fortunes

individual political fortunes play a

role in his calculation in everything

that he does true with all politicians

you want to tie an entire group to that

I don't think that's very smart you can

say I really like Israel I love Israel I

have family in Israel whatever you think

about Israel but like I don't think this

is a good idea or I'm offended by it or

whatever

>> if you eliminate the distinction between

a political organization which is a

synonym for government and an ethnic

group. Boy, you're going to hurt that

ethnic group. And that's exactly what's

happened. It's it's so bad and it freaks

me out. And I I will say once again that

my views on Israel apply to the United

States. They apply to Sagal. They apply

to Malaysia. They apply to people,

>> but not to the Jewish people.

>> Come on, dude. No.

>> Right.

>> And and I'm not even I don't even fight

back against it because I'm like, that's

so low. I'm not playing your game. Okay.

What my view is really simple.

I don't think that it is allowable. It

is the most immoral thing to punish the

innocent. The United States government

has punished the innocent a lot. They

did it during CO. I yelled about it

every night on Fox News. All governments

do this because all leaders get carried

away with hubris and they treat people

like numbers or enemies or non-human

beings and they kill them. I'm opposed

to that. You should be. We're all

opposed to that, by the way. I'm opposed

when it happens in Gaza. I'm opposed

when it happens in Texas. I'm opposed.

I'm just opposed. And all of a sudden,

we've reached this place where people

are so over wrought and defensive. I

came out and said something about, you

know, I don't know. I'm glad we beat

Imperial Japan. I'm kind of sad that we

incinerated all those people with the

atom bomb. Ben Shapiro did a whole

segment about how I was like a quizzling

or something. You hate America. No, I

love America. That's why I don't ever

want anybody to kill people who didn't

do anything wrong. That is the basis of

justice. We punish the guilty. We can

argue about to what degree they should

be punished. Should it be Norway where

they get highspeed internet and massages

or should it be, you know what I mean,

Malawi where they rot in a cave? But why

are we not allowed?

>> We don't punish the innocent and that

includes children. All children.

>> Chucker, why are we not allowed to say

we are absolutely saddened at the

tragedy that happened on October 7th?

And we're absolutely

um appalled at watching people starve

and innocents being killed in Gaza and

not being able to get them a maid. Why

can't you say both things and not be

criticized?

>> You should be. And I've decided that I'm

old enough and I know God, now I sound

like such a fraud. I know my heart, but

like I you can feel the hate coming off

people or whatever. I would hear Obama

talks and I always really liked Obama

before he became a senator, but I would

hear him talk and be like, "Wow, that's

animated by hate." And it would be in

this this is your captain speaking

voice, but it didn't matter. I was like

my dogs, like I could feel what was in

him. And I feel very confident in my

views. I like people and I just feel

that way and I'm not gonna play the game

where I have to be like, "Oh, actually

my wife is part Jewish or whatever,"

which I can't play. I'm not going to do

that.

>> I think we should stand on principle.

Don't punish the innocent. I don't care

who you are. No one has a special

dispensation that allows him or his

country to punish the innocent. And if

you do, I'm going to call you on it.

>> Okay? And and let me just back up in L

of a final question. I just want to back

up Tucker on this that the base of

conservatism is not believing that any

government is sacred.

>> Thank you, David Saxs.

>> Every government should be subject to

criticism because we know that they will

always abuse their authority. Power

corrupts and absolute power corrupts

absolutely. All governments must be

subject to criticism and governments

shouldn't seek to make themselves

immune- by essentially calling people

names. And you know, I've known Tucker

for 30 years. He doesn't have an

anti-semitic bone in his body. And it

really pisses me off the way that he

gets attacked for criticizing the

conduct of a government.

>> I'm not even that critical, by the way.

That's the hilarious thing. I'm not even

that critical. Like I have been around

people do things and I'm not like

>> I think I think for what it's worth,

you're an American treasure and I

appreciate that you

>> Yeah. And Sax, as we wrap here,

>> tell us about the meat cute moment when

you met Tucker and you fell in love with

Dr. Love Tucker. Me. Give us the meat

cute. You come around a cubicle. What

happens? You see Tucker the He's got the

bow tie.

>> Lock eyes. How did it

>> Yeah. What happens? It was at lunch in

Union Station in Washington DC. I'll

never forget.

>> Tell us s your earliest memory of

Tucker.

>> Just a camaraderie born of of some

common views. So

>> yeah.

>> And can I say one thing about David?

David was saying, I don't even get into

it, but he was saying things that now

would be considered well, of course, but

at the time were like pretty brave. I

thought he had written a book and I was

and we had a mutual childhood friend and

I was like super impressed because he

was saying things that the people around

him would be like, "You don't need to

say that.

>> Why are you doing that?" And he was just

totally principled. Completely

principled. And you just don't meet that

many people like that.

>> You have a you have a straight shot to

the presidency. Are you going to take

it?

you Tucker Carlson to being president.

>> You have your your fans want it. They

want you to run. You have the audience.

>> My fans,

>> you have the skill. You have the

intellect.

>> Would you consider public service?

>> Not even for a second, but if I did, I

would be like,

>> John F. Kenny was very moderate actually

on almost everything. They killed him

anyway.

>> So, like I'd make it about 10 minutes.

>> Self-preservation is a strong I I get

the Jack Ruby kind of cancer. Who knows

where he got it, you know? Ladies and

gentlemen, Tucker Carlson. Tucker

Carlson.

[Music]

Thank you, David.

We're crushing it, brother. Thank you.