people always ask me we did not have

people beating down our doors like I I

always one of the things I've heard

throughout the course of barcel is you

should be making so much money here and

doing this there and Deals there it's

like I'm looking no one I don't see

these mythical deals everyone's talking

about um and there was no bidding war

when churning came

around

going all right besties I think that was

another epic discussion people love the

interviews I could hear him talk for

hours absolutely crush your questions in

a minute we are giving people ground

truth data to underwrite your own

opinion what' you guys think that was

[Music]

fun Dave poroy thanks for joining us yep

bar

stool Dave you obviously own and

run a media business I guess best way to

describe it uh bar stool's got media

franchises spanning Sports gambling

Pizza reviews and um you've got a huge

audience you've you've been through

incredible corporate history which I

think one of the things we wanted to

talk about today was talking about the

business if you're up for it yep and

talk a little bit about the history of

the business um super interesting to us

when the acquisition happened with pen

and the subsequent buyback we thought it

was a super interesting story we

actually reached out and tried to have a

conversation with you at that time about

it but unfortunately missed you so we're

really glad to have you here today we

hope to talk about that hope to talk

about media Free Speech politics I think

there's a lot of stuff you've talked

about that we often talk about that I

think we'd love to just have a dialogue

and we'll see where this goes sounds

good yeah welcome to the all in

interview and thanks for being with us

and chth anything you want to start with

tell us about just getting out of New

York yeah so we were saying before we

relocated to New York in

2016 when chernin bought half the

company um and it was basically the

concept was create uh a reality blog

Media type company turn the lights on

see what happened let everyone see it

into the company and was easier to get

Talent we thought in New York attract uh

people to work and when athletes or

entertainers come through they usually

stop in New York and we can grab them

into the office so that's why we moved

there I don't think anybody in our

company loved New York it was not I mean

I personally think it's a dirty City I I

don't like it I think just not my

favorite cup of tea um and then I also

uh got a lot of money so once we're

starting to get more money with and I

guess fast forwarding because when we

did the second the pen deal um I was

like I'm not the taxes are so crazy

there Florida I went during covid

because it was an open State that's

really what initiated this whole thing

is when Co happened New York lock down

Florida was pretty much open so I went

there visited and then kind of stayed

there longer term during covid black

lives matter happened a lot of things

were happening in New York City and I'm

like I may stay in Miami were you the

only shareholder when churnin when Peter

bought 30 5 or whatever 40% of the

business Peter bought 51 right at that

time 51% so four employees of mine I had

given Equity like hey if something

happens you have small it wasn't I don't

even know if it's on paper um but for

the most part yes I had given away 10 to

12% of the company to my longterm

employees that was 2016 and when they

bought when when churnin bought

51% was that a buyout or was that money

going into the company so they yeah they

valued the company at I think 12 and a

half million wildly I didn't know what I

was doing they they really that was too

low but whatever that's what they valued

it for I think I got about if I recall

three and a half million went to me

personally and then the rest went into

the business account right and then you

ran it you moved it to New York and you

ran the business for a couple years and

obviously things took off the the

business grew were was churnin group

like active at this this time like they

helpful or was it you building the

business and and they were just kind of

quiet Financial sponsors how yeah how

did how did that that face go so so when

they they purchased us uh they basically

gave the money we did we weren't great

at business the first thing we did we

went out and hired Erica nardini as CEO

so she really helped expand the business

side of what we were doing uh and we

exploded But churnin to answer your

question they weren't involved at all um

I think they really I mean slightly here

or there if we had a question I think

the biggest thing they did is probably

credibility like I I was probably seen

as uh and still am at times like a wild

card like you don't know what you're

dealing with and you put the churn and

name on it it's like oh these guys are

legit they're real and maybe helped us

get into meetings and doors but they

weren't in the day-to-day operations at

all probably I would say the best thing

they did is they stayed out of our way

um well that's that's crazy because in

like three and a half years or maybe

four years you took the business from

like 12 a half million

this is the question I the the question

is Dave when that business

explodes are you are you spending like a

few minutes every day saying godamn why

did I do this deal like or did you think

it was really still worth it you know

when the compy goes I never question it

because again turn we did people always

ask me we did not have people beating

down our doors like I I always one of

the things I've heard throughout the

course of barcel is you should be making

so much money here and doing this there

and Deals there it's like I'm looking no

one I don't see these mythical deals

everyone's talking about um and there

was no bidding war when churning came

around uh so

while understanding it my biggest thing

I've never sold a company I wasn't

looking to sell a company when they

approached us they really were looking

at like our gross revenue and I didn't

care about gross revenue at all I care

about making a profit and putting money

in my pocket and that's how we that's

how we earned our living they were

basing our net worth they give me like

comps of other companies I'm like we are

way bigger than they are but they like

well they have gross sales and all this

it's like well they're losing money like

if you want if I had a year to build up

for that sale and I just wanted to

inflate our gross revenue I could have

done that easily I didn't so we

definitely sold it for far less but at

the same time they were the a they were

one of the only serious offers we had

and they stayed out of our way they they

were kind of in a the perfect partner

outside the price because they let us do

our thing so I didn't regret it um and

so when the pen deal came around was

that you saying guys we have to really

think about this or is that churnin

saying we need to think about this or

before before you get to the pen deal

how did how did the growth how did the

business go crazy over that three and a

half years did you invest a lot of

capital at that time I mean how did the

business go from you know 12 and a half

to half a billion dollars is it that you

that you shifted the strategy and said

hey let's go after Revenue now or did

you I think it was it was probably two

major things we we Erica was a perfect

hire and built out the business side and

people just totally underestimated us

like I knew how big we were um and in a

weird way I think a lot of times even

though people know us now they still are

kind of flabbergasted when you go under

the hood and see our influence like we

barel was around 20 years so during the

time that we sold I always gave the

analogy and this is old internet but

people throw numbers out and how big

Their audience was and it's like if

you're watching TV and someone has a

remote control and they're just clicking

every every second it's like everybody

got one view like my my network has a

view my network has a view and I'd be

telling people yeah but ours aren't

changing the channel like they're what

they're our viewer is one they're on in

the channel for 30 minutes listening so

our influence was just underestimated so

when you and we did nothing on the

business side like we really were so

busy on creating content and um you had

to knock down our door to advertise with

us so when we changed that philosophy

and like let's build out the business

side our Tech all of it with our

existing audience it was just kind of

like a powder keg that exploded it

didn't shock me to be honest granted the

original business plan said in five

years they wanted to sell it for like 50

million that was the original business

plan and we got past that in like six

months but you guys you guys decided to

build quote unquote in the wild like you

had cameras inside you made stars of

some of the people in there was that

organic or that that was like an

explicit decision you're like this could

be really interesting because these

people are really odd characters they'll

they'll great for television yeah so it

was organic in the sense I started

barcel and I didn't want anyone to know

who I was it was strictly business it

was a it was supposed to be like a

gambling Rag and I had fake names and

all this but in the early days of the

newspaper it it slowly shifted that

people were much more interested in the

personalities behind everything so by

the time we went to New York we knew the

focus should be on the personality

and the people we had working here and

we have this wild cast of characters and

we had we were hiring people that were

no one else would ever hire or give a

chance I often say we're one of the

first like digital true digital media

companies like the people we found all

the way from aenna marbles to Pat McAfee

to Alex Cooper McAfee couldn't get a job

when he was done punting like how did

you how did you hire McAfee how did you

hire fan he he uh McAfee was a fan and

we met him during a Super Bowl like we

were at the Super Bowl and we couldn't

get credentialed we had an RV that we

parked outside and had guests come on

McAfee came on um and he knew he wanted

to get into media I think he wanted to

work at ESPN they wouldn't hire him um

we did and obviously the rest of history

with him Alex Cooper had a podcast that

you just started we saw a Sizzle reel

for it it was something we'd never seen

before so he called her into the office

and when I met her she basically was

like well I edited and made this entire

Sizzle real myself I'm like how'd you do

that she's like I selftaught myself so

we hired her no idea what would become

with her podcast but we were willing to

take chances almost like a band label

type model it's like you hire this

talent and you hope they hit there's a

lot of Misses we have how do you look at

that like is it just Instinct intuition

you you you see someone you're like they

got it they don't have it I mean you

kind of yeah it is Instinct but it's

wrong A lot of times it that's why I go

with the band label like you hear

something this is unique this is

interesting I may it may not always work

for me like in my own personality a lot

of the people who come from networks

they're so used to being told what to do

it's like all the way up this is how you

produce it this is the hits this is what

you have to do we didn't do any of that

it's Alex go do your thing sink or swim

on the internet the beauty of the

internet it it will tell you it's a

voting machine it VES correct yes so you

know that's not true on ESPN maybe more

so now but if you have you know Sports

Center back in the day or you have the

NFL show or your CBS you almost have to

watch it old terrestrial radio there

aren't options the internet like you

said a voting machine so we'd hire

people and let the internet decide what

became of them you know the old Studio

model Dave they would have talent

development and so there would be these

producers that would come in and help

the talent get better train them teach

them the the art Etc but it sounds like

do you guys do that I mean do you kind

of stay out of their way you kind of let

them run let them figure it out

themselves and there's no training

there's no tools there's no toolkit that

says here's how you become successful

here's how you here's what you got to

hit on here's what you got to do well

here's what you got to learn not to do

Etc yeah we don't do any of that I would

say all those people anybody who tried

to do what you just described would not

fit with us and I'd say is a dinosaur

like again the people we've hired from

networks the talent it's like they need

their handheld for the most part they're

are so waiting this is what you do this

is what you say and we don't do any of

that yeah so the raw independent Talent

you just let them run they take off so

then the business blows up yeah and then

yeah tell us about the pen deal like how

did that how did that conversation start

when it happened we talked about it on

our show uh because chamath and I have

talked a lot about this idea of the

individual influence or media Brands

need to monetize in non-traditional ways

it's not just about selling ads but

there's kind of you know cpg businesses

are being launched by Kim Kardashian and

Kylie Jenner and there's an entirely new

business model that's emerged with the

independent businesses that have been

created over the last decade and this

seemed like a very good example of that

um I guess how did the conversation with

pen start and how did that that deal

kind of come about yeah so they changed

the laws in the United States that's

what sparked it when they said g Sports

gambling was going to become legal and a

state issue we started when I started

the thing we were a gambling newspaper

like that's what we were so when that

happened uh I I instantly was like this

is our chance so we proactively went out

and tried to solicit deals um like I had

worked with DraftKings I had worked with

FanDuel back in the DraftKings when they

were four people they offered me stock

in the company they're they're Boston

guys I remember we sat down and we were

kind of building our thing they were

building their so I knew this space

inside and out um we really didn't get

any offers we hired mullus which is like

a banking suck yeah they sucked they

absolutely sucked behind the door is one

of the guys trash me so the reason they

weren't getting any offers uh was

because I was like an [ __ ] or

something to that effect I caught wind

of that still irks me they got one penny

of commission on that sale but they did

um the pen came through we had a guy

David uh who's in the gambling space who

introduced us to Penn I had never heard

of them uh and Eric and I hit it off

with Jay Snowden the CEO um and that

deal basically was exclusively

negotiated between Jay and I Erica

involved too um Turnin wasn't involved

they didn't really want to talk to

churnin they want to talk to Erica and I

because that's who they would be dealing

with so it's like what's Dave about does

Dave and Erica get along what's the

company about um and we negotiated that

deal pretty much exclusively and then um

the deal was set up as a two-stage right

like they bought a piece and then they

bought the rest later correct which yeah

my understanding of it it was was always

going to happen that way like and and

you know there are conversations that

maybe would have changed our fortunes

who knows like in the beginning do we

call it barcel sports book or not

because some people may not have a taste

for Barcelo I argued we should we lose

what is one of the great things I could

have been wrong because dealing with

state legislatures and government is a

fair um but it was always let's not go

all in right right away because we don't

want to shock

gambling like legislator let's start it

slower and say we don't own them and

then eventually we'll acquire the whole

thing so that was always the plan and

the price points were kind of mapped out

and the thought from Penn is if Dave and

Erica are creating all this great

content we can integrate our sports book

in there and now we just have a much

cheaper way to get a lot more customers

as gambling becomes legal Offroad

America correct that's their basic bet

and they had no National brand so in

that sense they the perfect fit like

they owned all these scattered casinos

throughout the country um most of them

people probably haven't heard of unless

you live in that area but what that did

do is it gave them licenses for the

sports gambling so it's like what brand

are they going to launch with they

didn't have one so in that we were the

perfect fit and the launch was

actually very successful in terms of you

know we were up 15% or so in

Pennsylvania other states pretty good

launches um but super competitive but

yeah that was the theory behind it so

what what happened what then the deal

kind of turned upside down pretty

quickly right yeah I wouldn't say

quickly because I thought we were kind

of moving and grooving for a while um

our model was

essentially we're not going to pay for

advertising like we're the advertising

vehicle so the people in that space are

are spending hundreds of millions of

dollars and they're losing hundreds of

millions of dollars in the market shares

it it's you mean the the gambling

companies correct draft gangs FanDuel

MGM Caesars hundreds of millions

hundreds of millions we're spending none

they bought us so we're getting smashed

in that regard but we're still kind of

holding our market share which I thought

was pretty strong

um our Tech wasn't great and I think we

knew that they bought a company uh the

score for two billion I think they spent

a lot of money on the score for the tech

and it took a while for that to come out

we didn't control it I was under the

impression for the past football season

we didn't promote that hard like we kind

of waited because we were waiting for

the new tech and then by the time the

new tech came out they formed the deal

with ESPN and we were done so did they

step in and tell you how to run the

company during that time were they kind

of active and changing stuff or they

kind of leave you alone as

well I think they were a headache for

Erica in the sense of like we had to

report now to a public company and and

there was maybe more emphasis on the

bottom line I didn't get affected by it

outside like of a scandal hit in their

public company but they were they were

pretty they were pretty lenient again

there were things that came up in that

relationship like that I don't think

anybody could predict I still think we

could do a a very good we're very good

at promoting gambling uh and and for

pennies on the dollar consider compared

to what other companies do you so they

they but they did an ESPN deal without

your knowledge or were they did they

tell you hey we got this this inbound

from ESPN and we're trying to figure out

what to do with it they did the ESPN

deal without without me being

involved you find out you find out on

the back end of that correct and so how

did you uh structure this deal to then

get it out because it's seems I mean

that press was even more incredible than

the Press on the way in because it's

like pornoy just executed a really sick

deal it looked like yeah I think there's

was just a basic feeling from Penn and

us that the the Baro ESPN worlds are

different um they were going to partner

with ESPN they tried with us and I think

the biggest the hiccup with me and my

Persona and what people feel about me

it's one thing what is your persona and

what do people feel about you depends

who you ask some people love me and

they'll be like this guy should run for

present and some people think I'm the

devil so depends what article you read

but you know all the things that uh you

know who loves what what do they look

like that person and who hates you what

do they look like I I well I'd say a

rational person likes me and and a crazy

person doesn't like me but that that's

my own I feel the same way it's so crazy

yeah I mean obv I I think if you're

going stereotypical it's you're going to

say the right generally likes me and the

left extreme left generally doesn't I

think the the moderates on both sides

generally like me but you know my core

beliefs

generally tend and people who follow me

for a long time know this tend to line

up with the left more than it does with

the right

but the hate I get comes from the left

not the right you're a man without a

home yeah it's an interesting kind of

philosophy they have there but I will

say if you say something that goes

contrary to either side they'll equally

jump down your throat and be like ah

forget everything we've said about him

like I remember I said his pro-choice

once and and I mean the right wanted to

SLP my cut my tongue out of my mouth I

mean they were coming from people who

had for 10 years been like we love this

guy we love this guy we love this guy

disagreed on one point and they're like

we hate this guy we hate this guy we

hate this guy so uh both I guess I'm a

man with at home is a fair way to put it

but Dave at the end of the day it's like

you speak your mind and people

appreciate someone who speaks their mind

and speaks their truth yeah or or you

speak the agenda and if you speak the

agenda they say we like you and if you

don't speak the agenda we don't like you

I mean it's that and it varies from if

you you cannot speak the agenda and they

don't like you but if you get back on

agenda on the next thing they like you

again they don't they don't stay too

firm on on it's just what you said last

is basically what it is and I've always

said I I well the biggest issue I have

with a lot of things I don't want to

know what somebody thinks on an issue by

their political affiliation like in I

think

95% of the time you hear political

people speak you already know what

they're going to say based on their

affiliation which is sad and stinks 100%

the flip side of that there's more

people I well I know that there's far

more people who think like I do and I

feel like that's the norm but a normal

person also doesn't want to get in

screaming matches about politics and

totally the craziness totally and On Any

Given topic or policy you got a point of

view but if you don't conform to all the

topics and policies that the agenda is

defined to be by that party then you

don't fit and you're outed anyway you

can't be an independent thinker today

yeah do you think wild and we talk about

this a lot because we just did our

all-in Summit this week and this this

was a repeated theme with all the people

we had we had kisten Cinema she was a

senator from Arizona you know she uh she

got kind of ousted from the Democratic

party for speaking her mind and not kind

of conforming to what the Democrats were

telling her to do we have Barry Weiss

who left the New York Times she was an

editor of the New York Times and she

didn't want to conform to their agenda

and she started her own uh publication

called The Free Press we we this was

repeated a lot some of the academics we

had were similarly outed from from their

communities um anytime you don't speak

the agenda and you speak your mind you

kind of get Ed and then you're on the

outskirts and you kind of have to start

a fresh do you think that this is a new

phenomenon in America or do you think

this has always been the case and we're

just all kind of waken up to it because

we're you know in your case you're more

kind of celebrity now you're more well

known and this is becoming more of an

issue for you has this always been how

things have been I would guess it has

been this way far far more than I

realized um OB I I think the internet

certainly changes a lot of things

because people have more voice and more

access to information um but I bet it's

been like this a lot I mean I grew up in

a house where like the New York Times is

gossip and my dad hates Trump like my

dad hates him hates them hates him my

mom hates them hates them hates them and

then I came under attacks from like the

New York Times and that was confusing

for like my dad it's like he's seeing

things that he's like I don't understand

how this is happening and I'm showing

him documented stuff but yeah I probably

think it has been this way because it's

about power really and power is always

something throughout history that people

go pretty far to control maintain so I

would guess this has been going on for a

long time we interviewed Trump you did

as well what was that experience like

what did you think about him before

going into it what did you think after

and then when you shared it with your

parents what did that do to your

relationship with your parents or their

thoughts about him yeah my um so I was

when Trump ran the first time I was like

I'm Trump because I think politics are

so broken and I think he's somebody who

can just kind of like make a mockery of

it and break politics I said that you

needed you needed a torpedo yes now I

didn't think he was gonna win the

presidency I was stunned um I was

nervous when I went to interview him to

be honest because he asked me I had like

24 hours notice he was still a sitting

president I don't do interviews um so I

was nervous when I went in my thought on

him was well I thought it was funny and

interesting um

but he gets if you if so if someone is

interviewing me and I think they hate my

guts and I think no matter what this

interview comes out I I could say if

they cure for cancer and they' be like

no you don't or I give you a dollar and

they want a hundred if I just think it's

no matter what happens they are going to

try to crucify me I would probably be

like an arrogant in that

interview he when he realized that I was

not trying to like gut you or anything

he he was affable open and and normal I

think that's what happens with him quite

a bit it's like he senses instantly it's

not hard to tell who's coming for his

throat who's going to be fair who's on

his side and that changes his demeanor

um you know I I've done a decent amount

of research I feel like on Trump people

Everyone he's lying and this and that

like that's what the the left always

says he's a liar that's a lie that's a

lie and I read an article just like last

week it was from uh Time Magazine is

like top 10 lies he's told and most of

the lies tend to be what I would say are

exaggerations like he talks how he would

if he was on barol like I'm going to

build like aund he said he's going to

build a th000 feet of wall and he built

like 300 feet or they're all like

they're not they're CRA like even how he

talks in the debate you know like

they're eating the pets and he just

talks as not presidential and then those

things get taken and they're like he's a

liar does this but they're not what I

would say egregious lies most of them

they're quite clear exaggerations and he

doesn't talk like a president and

whether that helps or hurts him down the

road I just think he's he's a not

presidential

president I said during the primaries I

would I I would have voted for Nikki

Haley I'll vote for Trump and the

presidency

because I want the country to get

along I don't know if they can with him

because it's not his fault necessarily

to me but they just people just he's

broken people's brains they're like

they're just broken it's you see people

it's like they're not making any sense

the things they jump on like it there's

there's nothing he can say that'll make

him that'll make him say what do you

think what do you think happens if

kamalo

wins it's probably more of the same uh

you know I I I I think that what the

Democrats have done is far worse than

really anything Trump has done like in

terms of not allowing a primary to me

that's crazy like I'm somebody who if I

like to cidate in the Democrat

Democratic side I could have potentially

voted for that person like to not give

people a

choice and they really still haven't

figured out well was he not prepared

like is he not mentally aware can he not

run is he too old he just thought he was

going to lose the the theory you just

thought he was going to lose is not a

real answer he ran like you have to then

let other people run and if he's not

mentally there which I don't think he is

comma hasn't known that like and she

just lied about it forever and then they

kick him out so there's so many problems

I have with the

way I she never got a vote like I that I

don't know you can say whatever you want

about Trump he

won the Republican nomination by

Landslide fair and square and comma did

not so to me that's a major major issue

some of her past statements to for me

are just

like nutty uh and I don't like what

what's happened in a lot of Democratic

states so I would vote um like I hope if

she's

elected it like California and New York

those don't become what happens in the

United States I don't know that it will

I don't know that that much can change

is it hard to build a company of young

creative people in New York that abide

by the culture that you want or do you

find yourself pushing up against all

kinds of things that you're just like

what are these people asking for I don't

get it no because we hire I think the

hardest thing is just cost of living and

taxes and things like that for for our

employees to live in New York City it's

extremely expensive um we wouldn't run

into the the people who who think and

are proper employees for us they're

there and by the way we have a cross

Barcelo we have super liberal

conservative we have it all and they

Clash internally like how normal humans

would but it's really the cost of living

like in taxes and you know it's just

really really hard for a young person

you know you could pay him 200 Grand a

year and that is barely enough for

someone to live in Manhattan okay well

talk about that for a second you know a

lot of the undercurrent of why people

are angry is that there's just really

exaggerated wealth inequality right

there's folks like us that have sort of

been lucky good whatever you want to

call it on the right side of doing well

and then there's all the other people

with the potential to do well but

they're constrained somehow and it's

just getting harder and

harder do you have sympathy for that

argument do you have any sense of like

what should be done to fix that I do and

it's such a hard thing to answer because

I do but I also think at times it's a

crutch like so where is that fine

balance and I I guess the way I've

thought about it as an overall

philosophy is we should be looking

forward not backward and there feels

like there's a whole lot of how do we

fix backwards but that's not necessarily

going to really help

forward if if that makes sense like I

mean California going back and they're

looking at like reparations and things

like it's it's you hear it it's like

well how are they going to do that we

already have like crazy inflation and

now you're saying you want to give

everybody like African-Americans who fit

the criteria like millions of dollars

eat is like where what from where like

where is where is all this coming from

so it's it's moving forward and at what

point I think a fair question is at what

point is like all right well this isn't

working like we if you're just

consistently going back you're not going

to go forward that's kind of how like if

you pay a person at bar stool 200k I'm

just picking that number I'm not saying

you do or not and they can't really make

ends meet in New York City and they say

Dave I got to quit I got to move to a

cheaper City or whatever after enough

people say that do you pay that person

250 or do you think you have to move the

company do you think you need to change

the laws of the city like

what happens when you're running this

business now that inequality issue is

confronted every day in your employee

base what do you do yeah for me on a

personal basis a lot of it we're we're

we're sort of a talent company so if I

can't lose this person I'll up the antie

and pay to keep them if we can afford to

move on without them we'll move on

without them so it's a but it's a case

by case and a tough tough issue yeah

Dave I just want to go back and second

um you ended up buying the company back

for a dollar one question I had was how

how is it a dollar and not $20 million

and then I want to talk a little bit

about this idea of founder mode which I

don't know if you've heard this term but

it was kind of brought up in Silicon

Valley a week or two ago and it's

cocaine it's cocaine but we we kind of

made a we made a whole thing about it I

don't know if you like founder mode or

not but yeah but not a Coke guy not a

Coke

guy more of a coffee guy well I guess

how how was it a dollar how was it not

sounds like a great deal how did you

negotiate that and is it a dollar or is

there is there a backend deal or

something that we're that we're missing

that kind of got worked out yeah no I I

I think what it the thought was we had a

lot of headaches with State legislates

gambling there was a like the

Massachusetts gambling lady hated my

guts other people did I think for pen to

move forward they kind of had to

disassociate this the bet they made and

quickly yeah and quickly and let's end

on very good terms with bar stool myself

um I think that's where it came from I

don't think that I don't think we were

like a critical part but did you propose

the terms did you propose that structure

like was Mutual it was it was a mutual

like understanding but a dollar seems

like that's a very Stark number was it

burning money at the time well you have

to put something I I think if you're

going to give me the company back like

if you could do zero I think they could

do zero yeah the company was losing

oh I see and so did you have to put

money in yourself no okay and so you you

took the business over and I want to

play this clip Nick can you pull the

clip up this should be

interesting I had a sales meeting

today I think I think uh I let him I let

him know's back I let him know I was

here crack some skulls I think crack

skulls but it's like you their comp plan

was to me they should be making more

money on their comp plan less Bas salary

uh you know a lot of people may not make

it um this is going to get grimy again I

will yell at you I may forget about it 5

seconds later if you can't handle that

don't be here but I'm sick of the

excuses um and honestly our comp plan

was ass backwards so sales people I want

people up there like a bunch of Gordon

gecko looking [ __ ] that's good

Nick yeah that's

good you step in you step in and you

know this is what people in Silicon

Valley might call founder mode you're

just like cracking skulls you're seeing

all the [ __ ] that's [ __ ] up you're

like we're going to right siize the the

the organization we're going to get the

ship headed in the right direction we're

going to restructure comp I guess how

did things

drift you know during that time yeah

they drifted we're a big public company

um that was using us as a marketing

machine really to drive drive consumers

to the casino Maybe weren't as concerned

about the bottom line um you know I

wasn't involved in in really a lot of

the stuff but it was growth mode growth

mode growth mode not bottom line mode

not bottom line mode which was I think

what they wanted from us and that was no

longer going to be the case and it isn't

the case was this like Elon taking over

Twitter and he kind of goes in he's like

what the heck is going on here and we

gotta like Yeah Yeah from what I heard

or saw stories of that yes I think very

similar where and again this is always

this is one thing that I clash with the

left there seems to be like oh we

shouldn't have to work hard culture like

y i I have to work like 10 hours a day

or you get what you work for so we're a

great place to work people would kill to

work for barcel there's not and and

we're always find that like I had a

sales job grass is always greener on the

other side but you know we do Sports

entertainment it's a great spot to work

um and if you work hard you get rewarded

but there is sort of that I don't

know the shaming of success earning

whatever you want to call it I do feel

like exists in our in our country a

little bit and I I don't know where that

came from but that's the thing that

that's the thing that irks me the most I

think the um I've said this before but

the the prosperity that we enjoy as a

country is because of the

productivity that's Arisen from Entre R

preneurship and Entrepreneurship means

everyone has a chance to build something

and be successful in this country and if

you are you deserve that success and we

should be rewarding that success with

accolades not with disdain we should be

looking down is close it's like it's a

it's a slur like I love the word bilon

someone could call me a billionaire I

would take that and be like like and

I've said that and I that's one thing

I'm always I won't apologize for making

money having money spending money I had

none of it like that's what I work my

ass off for and it is wildly

irritating as somebody who you know

built barcel I didn't take a vacation

day for 10 years like and literally I

had a hump in my neck because I was like

at my computer all day to then be told I

have to coddle somebody else who works

for me is infuriating and that's good

the bigger you get like if I didn't have

to have HR or any of that I know you

can't go over I I wouldn't like I want

to be able to and the bigger you get the

less you can do that because you don't

know who you're talking to and what type

of issue that may lead to yeah do you

like the business building aspect I mean

do you like Building Sales comp plans

and looking at the finances and figuring

out the right Next Step strategically or

do you like being on camera and creating

content and working with the creatives

yeah like how much of a business guy are

you are you like I I think I'm I'm

underestimate a little on the business

side there's certain aspects I like

certain aspects I hate like in our world

I hate negotiating the talent contracts

like if you could have told me Dave

don't like what's something you're going

to hate it's the talent business where

inherently we're trying to find new

stars build them up just so they can

turn around hire an agent negotiate us

and then leave so it's like this I wish

it was a product that I owned and and

the more we do that that is a sh I hate

it and and you know we're using

everything and you it happens it Alex

mcafe we make millionaires out of people

but that's our business so I hate hate

hate that but the business side of it

outside of the talent and what's the

next steps I enjoy how successful has it

been to launch these products off of bar

so you know you've launched a whole line

of stuff what's working and what's not

working what have you learned from that

yeah um what I've learned about our

audience

and this probably holds true for a lot

it doesn't matter what I say or our

influence it's the product it's like if

if the product's good they do well like

pink Whitney is a drink that kills it

for us we uh Dan bitette has a coffee

now I did a one excuse me a one bite

frozen pizza it was the biggest Frozen

launch Walmart ever had it's gone it's

basically disappeared because it wasn't

very good um and that's a huge missed

opportunity probably because I got

everybody to eat it and we had like a

million and not even our crowd our

crowd's not a Walmart crowd because a

lot of you're saying the product sucked

the actual P suck product was bad it

tasted bad how did that happen how did

it taste bad yeah because I didn't know

what the hell I was doing we had a third

party um and and I just didn't

understand the frozen pizza Market I

thought we had made it as good as you

could make it and that just wasn't the

case um so it was a bad product I knew

it was bad so after it launched it it

pretty much disappeared I mean it's

still occasionally there so it really is

probably like High Noon which I don't

own but I'm heavily involved in it's an

unbelievable product it's just a

spectacular drink is the number one

vodka on the market so we have this this

megaphone of people who trust us and

we'll give anything a shot but if the

product's no good it ain't going to work

and if the product's good it'll work

you know years ago Starbucks set up a a

corporate strategy they uh um Howard

realized that every time they put a new

product on the shelf right when you

check out you know there at the register

yep it would sell like crazy but then it

would also go sell like crazy in Walmart

and Target and Kroger's all over the

country everywhere else and they were

making brands with their platform they

realized you know we've got a platform

so they started to kind of do these

deals where in order to put your brand

your product on the Shelf at checkout

they had to get equity in the business

is that a model you've kind of played

with where you can leverage the platform

instead of charging people ad dollars

you basically align with brands that you

love take a piece of those Brands and

then really truly partner up with them

and help them be successful and

participate in that upside with them

yeah so we we yep we we've done that

we're starting to do that a lot more now

that I've got the company back um

because when it wasn't my company I I

didn't care as much because like what

what are we getting so I'm trying to be

much more like uh helpful to our talent

because not only are they happy but it

helps me keep them so we're doing a lot

more deals now how you just suggested so

what's the what's the day in the life of

Dave porno are you like on zooms all day

talking to your teams about various

things or when do you have time to make

the content like how do you how is your

day structured it it really varies it it

can vary dayto day uh I have my set like

content things that I'm doing whether

it's Pizza BFF I may do a podcast like

this and then uh business stuff but I'm

not working like how I was working when

I started it we have good people at high

levels who I trust and are doing like

whether it's a CFO whether it's sales

I'm still in the loop on how

everything's going but I'm not as

involved in the day each day I mean like

would you say your style is Like You

observe and then if you feel or sense

it's going off track you just jump in

and just 100% yeah that's 100%

understand what I would do CU

like yes I was much more involved the

beginning I don't want to be that invol

as like I want to kind of live my life a

little bit so yes that's I would say

that's exactly how I do it let's go back

to your roots for a second because I'm

I'm really curious about this do you you

think that Sports gambling has been good

for America so far based on how it's

been

launched how young men use it yeah I

mean I'd say it's new I I wouldn't say

it's good or bad I mean everyone's doing

it I I'm sure there's horror stories

just like any any Vice of people be like

oh I lost money or whatever but from my

world I was doing it my whole life so I

was doing it when was not legal um I'm

also a firm believer and let an adult be

an adult like if they want to gamble

they do it but I wouldn't say it's been

it's probably created a bunch of

business like because the industry is

spending so much and that trickles down

in so many different areas

um so gambling is going to happen

there's certain things that I'm pretty

things that have happened since the dawn

of man gambling is one of them it is

going to happen so you might as well

legalize it and make money off of it

rather than have it be underground

bookies and things like that you talk a

lot about WNBA right now but are there

sports leagues that you think are just

yesterday's news a little bit boring not

really well baseball's slow they're also

like in some bizarre world the last to

embrace like highlights in the internet

where the NBA was always the leader and

Forefront I think it shows um you know

football is in it's the same same Sports

basically I think baseball's the the

core for that's

lagging do you think uh do sports

franchise values go up as legalization

happens and then do sports franchise

values go down and you know is that a a

big driver do you think for well the NFL

is talking about letting private Equity

right invest

they approved it last month they appr it

yeah so I can't that that to me can only

make franchises Skyrocket and I don't

think the bottom line always matters

with sports like you're making money

you're losing money there's not many of

them and it's the biggest toy anybody

really on Earth can have right like what

is better and it does for some people

doesn't matter how much money you have

you may still not be able to get it so I

can't see any World in which that

doesn't continue to increase when this

the demand far outweighs Supply do you

think that there's a world where

somebody figures out a way for the

players to own a piece of these teams as

well like you know you talked about you

started bar stool your four main guys

whether they was written down or not

you're giving them equity in the same

way if you think about the equity that

you know MJ created in the league or

Lebron and Stephen KD have created in

the league they capture it in salary but

they don't capture in equity how do you

think about

that it's a tough question because by

the

time you would say like an MJ or a

LeBron maybe LeBron a little different

but by the time they've risen to the

level of oh this guy need is worth the

equity like if you rewound Jordan's

career from day one and you had the

choice like we can have him on the Bulls

or whatever clearly the equity is

probably worth it but by the time he

establishes that you're depending on

almost which I find almost never happens

in business rare like retroactive

Goodwill good faith like okay you did so

much here's some Equity I don't I

haven't found many people do that no I

think for the NBA they'll just they'll

probably find a way for LeBron to get

the Vegas franchise that's kind of his

his reward maybe you know yeah but then

there's a bunch of these other guys that

are when you say LeBron do you mean like

the the Fenway Sports Group because he

that like they buy teams he's part of

that I think I think it's probably it's

probably Fenway maybe but I think that

they want him on the Mast head as a

direct owner yeah I suspect if I had to

guess but I mean Jordan had minority in

the Wizards do you uh still gamble for

fun or do you still gamble mostly for

let me let me tell you Dave's bets this

year because I I had him pulled up he

bet 2.1 two I mean you're yeah tell us

so 2.1 million on on on the huskys 1.3

million on those are winnings yeah yeah

on the Masters on Scott

1.1 million on the the Celtics and the

NBA Finals million dollars on Michigan

over Alabama and the Rose Bowl half a

million on the Chiefs to win the Super

Bowl half a million on Washington Over

Texas in the Sugar Bowl you're gambling

yeah so ju to clarify the only the the

early ones that I bet a million on

Michigan to win the Rose Bowl that's was

just a million to win a million I went

to Michigan I went to the game it's like

this is going to be my big bet most of

the others have been like Futures so

like the not nearly the winnings have

been big because they been red hot I've

gambled my whole life I love gambling

people we have a big partnership with

DraftKings people are always like oh

DraftKings gives them the money or pen

no it's my own money um and yeah it's

it's a passion of mine I love doing I

bet on horse racing Sports uh and I

enjoy it the worst thing about gambling

in my opinion is we have to pay taxes on

the winnings and then we can't carry

over the losses the great news which may

be

different I generally don't have to

worry about about that because I

generally lose so I'm never like worried

this year this year will be year one of

of a quite a long life that I've won and

it doesn't look like I'm going that way

but that is crap it's like a CALA like

unrealized uh unrealized gam like you

get tax on something you never had

exactly is she still doing that by the

way is that like a real thing she walked

it back a little she walked it back yeah

she said oh no and then she also walked

back the capital gains tax from 40% down

to 28 cuz the backl she got when she

said hey I support the Biden proposal

for tax reform there was so much

backlash she started to lose a lot of

big donors and they were like okay you

know here's the compromise and that's

where they ended up so got it what

ultimately happens if she gets elected

is anyone's guess you know uh all these

guys are kind of tacking to get elected

and no one knows what their actual

policy will end up being when they're in

office for all these fol so you know we

don't know do you gamble in any other

way craps dice yeah that's that's what I

was going to ask you ever Black Jack

poker or stocks you know like you did

stocks for a while didn't you on I love

stocks like stocks is to me is better

than Sports gambling because you rarely

like unless a company just goes poof

you're not like out like if you have

patience for the most part you can

bounce back uh so yeah I I I have money

in the stock market I'll play like at a

casino but it doesn't do it for me I I'm

delusional like I think I know what's

going to happen in sports like I'm like

oh I know how the Patriots are playing

or like if I'm playing Blackjack like I

know the rules but I also know I have no

control over what I I don't count cards

uh I like poker but I'm no expert at it

and I don't play that often um it

doesn't you're not a Quant guy you're

not an analytical guy that's doing

modeling or anything like that no no no

if I could go back and have one skill

I'd love to like be able to like have an

algorithm for the stock market like how

all the people make all their money

where it just hit like but I don't have

that brain you did lot of it during Co

but then that content kind of wound down

yeah well the stock market during Co so

we did the pen deal like right before

covid so we're gearing up to do all the

sports gambling content and then Sports

went away and I'm like all right well

the stock market is still going it's

kind of the same thing so I started

doing that without much knowledge live

streaming it and people loved it the

swings in the stock market during Co

bananas bananas it was I mean awesome

like I loved it but that's not happening

so to do the daily I was day trading

stocks aren't moving nearly unless it's

like in earnings um they're not moving

like they were so it's it's boring yeah

yeah can you tell us about the Caitlyn

Clark Angel Reese WNBA controversy you

have some strong opinions on that you I

do have strong opinions on that I mean I

uh so I love Caitlyn

Clark this I mean do you think do you

think it's Larry magic all over again

we'll see how Angel she had a great

rookie year she had a great rookie year

yeah Angel was not on the same like I

don't think not all right if you love

college basketball women's college

basketball sure you knew who Angel Reese

was I did not know who Angel re was

until she was doing this thing to

Caitlyn Clark and this and fall who is

this whereas magic and bird everybody

knew those two going in

Angel and this isn't this will sound

disrespectful but it's a fact people

would not the majority people would not

know who she was if it wasn't for her

going at Caitlyn Clark and becoming her

rival by really trash talking her and

that anybody in the media who says it's

anything other than Angel ree thrusting

herself into this conversation which by

the way business-wise brilliant for her

because she's got shoe deals she a shack

she's got all this stuff but people

would not know who she was if Clark is

by every metric like a unicorn she's

yeah exactly so uh and she put herself

in the same conversation with it and

she's had a great rookie season but Bird

magic knowing knew who she I mean I I

didn't know I just saw Caitlyn play in

college and she was doing things I just

never seen a woman doing basketball

pulling up from the logo P like who the

hell is this and and I just started

watching her and I didn't even during

the game with um the LSU when and she

did all the theatric I didn't notice

Angel during the game like I really I

bet on Iowa I was mad and then I don't

know if I get credit or or just approve

however you want to put it I tweeted and

this went super viral and started like a

race war I was so mad when they lost

this game I tweeted Angel ree is a

classless piece of [ __ ] it's the first

time I talked about her and it was right

after she was taunting her and

everyone's like you only said that

because he's black it's like I it had

nothing to do with it was I bet on

Caitlyn I was piss

it didn't matter who it was people

always ignore that with me some of my

most fiercest enemies Roger Goodell like

I I had to pull up like Brooks Kea like

all these people I'd call classless

pieces of [ __ ] it's how I talk but the

race thing from that moment really took

off between these

two I I I w't say it's Bird magic I

think it's disrespectful to how

different because those are two of the

greatest of all time two of the greatest

of all time and Angel's a great

rebounder and to Caitlyn's credit I

think that she has completely uplifted

the WNBA to a level that I don't think

anybody expected it's insane the number

one game on NB NBA TV has been a WNBA

game it's beating the NBA I remember

when you know we had a moment where

Steph had all these ankle injuries this

was like in that first era with Monte

Ellison and there was a lot of pressure

to trade step and he had just came back

and all of a sudden he was lights out

right and then what you saw was every

young kid wearing his his jersey because

it's much easier to look at Steph and

say I could be like Steph right not

nearly as tall as everybody else not

nearly as huge as everybody else and

you're starting to see the same thing

with Caitlyn where all these kids are

like I can shoot like her that's where

you become Transcendent because you have

this approach that seems like well I

could do this too it's that thing that

just makes you a huge start it I said

when Nike did the deal with her I

thought it was the most the biggest

steal like in the history of Sports

Marketing like it was 10 million and

then you look at like Devon Booker is

like 30 million a year there's no person

on the planet who can tell me Devin

Booker is more marketable than Caitlyn

Clark it's like Caitlyn Clark is up

there with anybody she's she's hit

something that that you rarely whether

it's a tiger a Serena somebody who is

just redefining the sport and it's not

the color of her skin that I that was

what drove me nuts with this cuz the

WNBA is filled with white superstars

people are at Diana terasi um the

Sabrina iok there's ton ofu yeah ionescu

and the the um woman from Yukon who's at

the to top and S bird there's ton she

plays different and if you watch the

game she does not play how anybody's

seen a woman play that's it that and

everyone made it into all these others

this it's she plays different you

haven't seen it before Dave let me ask

you a question you've remained steadfast

in speaking your mind speaking your

truth telling your opinions it's gotten

you a lot of heat over the years you got

a lot of people writing articles

negatively about you chasing down

personal stories about you all this sort

of stuff you're still here and there was

a period of time for a couple years

where everyone talked about cancel

culture and someone does something that

is inappropriate or is a microaggression

using a big platform and they should be

canceled and everyone rallies behind and

puts this person out they're done but

you haven't been cancelled why is that

and do you think that we're kind of post

cancel culture in America was that a

moment that's come and gone or do you

think we're still kind of fighting the

fight for free speech in America and the

ability to speak one's mind um and speak

one's Voice without being deplatformed

and and shut down yeah I don't think

it's totally gone I think I'm here just

it it it barcel has been around for a

long time so people really do know me

like the fans or or people have read

barcel for 20 years stuck by me and H

and and that's been important like if

you're on someone else's platform it's a

lot easier to deplatform them because

you have advertisers and somebody above

who don't want to deal with the headache

or anything like that so I I've been L

even when Penn was here and there are

people above me

theoretically what choice do they have

to have my back because it's it's well

if you don't have my back I still have

this megaphone I'm just going to be like

guess what these guys don't have my back

and then poof everything they've done so

I've had that luxury of being able to

speak directly and not having to worry

where if you're just on a different

network they can pull the plug a lot

easier um

and I I'm kind of an open book so it's I

I think what has worked in my favor I've

never been worried well if I speak out

or defend myself what's going to come

out next or is there someone lurking in

the closets I I've never care I

everything is out there I I there's I

I've told the truth and that's allowed

me to be pretty comfortable like the

heavy accusations like Business Insider

when like sexual misconduct type stuff

like all garbage and when I say point

there wasn't 01 there was no truth to

any of the stuff that happened and I had

all the facts and so when this thing hit

like I just it made me look kind of

stupid or embarrassed because nobody

wants like personal text but I had that

stuff out there like it was out there

hours after it's like here it is here's

everything that disproves it not

everyone does that you think people are

just sick and tired of being told what

to think and who to follow and who's

right and who's wrong and they want to

kind of make up their own minds and not

kind of get behind this whole cancel

culture organizational system anymore

you think 100% I find my biggest issue

is I don't know what to believe I I

don't believe anything like and that's

kind of unfortunate like you you just

hear so many things and it's a lot of

times even hard to figure out where the

truth is like you try dig into it

especially in politics like but that's

probably a good answer example I hear so

many things on both sides then when you

really try to dig down and be like is

this real is this fake it's it's hard to

find the root of the truth and that is

actually kind of scary I think that's

why that's why freedom of speech matters

now more than ever because we got to

have more voices not fewer so that

people can ultimately find the truth

themselves have you been able to

convince your dad that maybe the New

York Times isn't always telling the

truth no I haven't which is

scary he he doesn't have an answer for

it with me he does but like he still

truly

believes he's one of those guys where

there's nothing Trump could do nothing

nothing like he's bad and if he gives

the greatest answer greatest thing

whatever it doesn't matter Trump's bad I

me you can give well what about the

other side he doesn't care so uh no he's

skewed he he he's somebody who's going

to watch mainstream media and pretty

much believe everything they say maybe a

little bit he's changed but and I think

there's a lot of people like them well

before we wrap what's the what's the

future for barcol Dave what are you what

are you going to do with the business

over time is it just a business you now

own forever you're going to run it make

a profit live off of it I mean what's

your your longterm yeah I mean that that

kind of nailed it I and this may sound

not like a true founder I sometimes get

this but I want Barcelo to be a place

where we break even or make money so I'm

not overly stressed and pulling my hair

out and people enjoy coming to work and

they have a good job that like I've said

and I I said to our employees when I

took it it's like I've made my money I I

I'm never going to become like a

billionaire off Barcelona someone pays

it so I'm happy I'm comfortable and I

want our employees to have a place there

that they know a job is there and you

know they don't hate going to work

that's kind of and we'll look for

opportunities and try to continue to

grow but I'm not maniacal how do we get

to the next step yeah that's awes that's

great Dave thanks for being with us this

has been an awesome chat really enjoyed

it see you

guys going