them spending hundred million dollars to

try and say we're likable and we're cool

again is like your uncle showing up with

a Ferrari to convince everyone he

doesn't miss his ex.

[music]

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Cara Swisser

>> and I'm Scott Galloway.

>> We've got a lot to get to today.

Paramount Sky Dance is pausing a Warner

Brothers Discovery merger until legal

challenges are resolved or until June

1st, 2027. That's like a long time from

now, folks. Whichever happens first. The

decision comes after a federal court

granted a temporary restraining order

preventing the merger from closing for

at least 28 days. Paramount is calling

the pause a significant win, which is

not, saying it provides a direct path to

a trial based on evidence, but investors

do not agree. Neither does Cara Swisser.

Paramount shares hit a 52 week low on

the news. The delay could get costly.

$650 million per quarter ticking fee

begins in October. And if the deal falls

apart entirely, Paramount would owe $7

billion breakup fee. Uh I I by the way,

Paramount just just brought on Beth

Wilkinson, someone I know pretty well as

its lead attorney, very good attorney.

She successfully defended Microsoft's

Activision acquisition. She's also

representing NextStar in its antitrust

case. Beth, [laughter]

>> the company you keep. Um anyway, she'll

win. Well, we'll see. We'll see. We'll

see. Um what's winning at this point? At

at this point. So talk a little bit

about uh what you think. I have thoughts

on it uh but I'd love to hear yours

first.

>> Well, I don't think they have a legal

leg to stand on. What they have is

delay. And delay costs shareholders,

employees. It it's effective and they'll

probably extract a pound of flesh

because par in order to win the deal,

one of the things that Paramount Sky

Dance offered in the purchase agreement

was a ticking fee of $650 million per

quarter. while the steel sits in limbo.

That's roughly $7 million per weight. So

these Democratic AGs who are probably

sick of a Republican weaponized DOJ have

said fine, what's good for the goose is

good for the gander. And they'll

probably be able to extract something

whether it's guarantees of certain

shooting within their state or spinning

a certain thing. They're going to and

you know, no one

all of a sudden less than no one is

going to know who the California AG is

going to be, right? they'll start

getting a lot of time on MS now. So,

this is political. They'll get some

awareness. They might get a pound of

flesh, but I don't I think ultimately

Beth will show will bring up a bunch of

expert witnesses in the form of

economists who will say emerged Warner

Brothers Sky Dance is 8% or 6% of all

viewing time versus Netflix at 9 and

YouTube at 13. The market has already

voted. Um, Paramount, as you referenced,

hit a 52- week low after celebrating

what management called a legal win. This

was such a Trump thing, trying to

pretend this is anything but bad news.

And investors understand something

executives often don't, and that is

winning in court can still mean losing

economically.

So again, the real competitor here isn't

Sky Dance or Warner Brothers. It's

YouTube, Netflix, Tik Tok, and

increasingly probably AI generated

entertainment. And as usual, legacy

media is fighting yesterday's war while

you know tomorrow's competitors are

scaling. But this is again this seeds

economic value and advantage from the

legacy players to the new guys who

aren't caught up in court right now and

YouTube can just scale.

>> Yeah, that's absolutely true. I don't

think she's going to win at all

actually. I think they Yes, I don't. And

I Right. Look at right now the price of

Warner shares $25. The delta between the

31 and 25 as Bill Cohen actually pointed

out is quite high. Supposed to be about

4%. It's it's a lot. That's a lot.

Investors have decided this deal isn't

happening. That's what I think is

exactly

>> they want a premium. So, so what you're

referring to is merge or arbitrage.

There's a whole class of investors who

when a deal is announced at say I think

this announced at 31 bucks a share,

whatever it is, if it's trading at 25,

what is that? That's about a 22 or 23%.

>> They don't think the deal is happening.

>> That's right. But what merger ARB guys

do is they say, "Okay, I think it's

going to close. I buy the stock now.

When it closes, I got my 31." And it's

hard to find 20 or two or 23% return.

But what you're saying is to your point,

the market is saying there's now

approximately, if I'm doing my math

correctly, a one in4 chance this deal

doesn't happen.

>> That's correct. Yeah.

>> And what would be interesting is what

happens to the stock if it doesn't

close.

>> Collapse. Collapse. Here's what I think.

This is this is what I think. All right,

let me go. Uh this is someone sent me a

very interesting legal um document which

I thought was great. They chose

financial hemorrhage over legal

precedent. This tells you everything

about how they assessed their chances on

August 3rd. This they were going to lose

on the preliminary injunction. They were

absolutely going to lose on that and

that would have devastated the the

stock. Devastated the stock and it was

you couldn't overturn it on appeal. This

called something called abuse of

discretion standard and the the merger

would have been over if they lost on

August 3rd. So they're push this this

this lawyer they had a guy named Kesler

um in hiring Beth. It's a great hire.

She's great. She's terrific. I don't

really care how terrific she is. This is

um they have I think they have decided

um this is let me read you this uh

Paramount blank. They looked at August

3rd hearing two PI motions two markets

A-list writer declarations a judge who

already tipped her hand and decided that

no ruling was better than another bad

ruling. That's a rational litigation

decision and a catastrophic business

signal. Um Peace Sky isn't just scared.

They've entered a survival mode and

they're trying to control the bleeding.

The question is whether the patient can

survive long enough to reach the

operating room. And as you said, other

competitors are scaling including all

these tech competitors and also Disney

and others. They have all kinds of

freedom to do things. Um they have this

ticking fee that's very expensive and at

some point the savings that they were

going to recognize in this deal are

going to disappear, right? That they

were going to do through the

coordination. And so

>> Oracle stock is way off. This is what's

paying for part of this. Yeah.

>> Um, this is delay. You don't have to win

at litigation here. You have to delay

the litigation. And Beth can push for,

and she's going to try to do this in

court, a shorter time span um in between

um in in between the um you know what's

happening here. But she she she's

frozen. It's really pretty much frozen.

So, she can say, "Let's try a

scheduling. It's on July 31st. They want

to get it this fall." It's not going to

get happen this fall. and the judge is

going to set this schedule and this

judge doesn't seem in any rush. Um, now

they've also forgotten the appeal into

the Ninth Circuit. That's going to take

until the trial is over. So, you know,

the California and the group is going to

appeal if they lose. Um, it just keeps

dragging and dragging on. And so, I I

don't see how I don't see how they get

this out the door. I unless they have a

settlement. And so, another another

document I got which was really

interesting and they said these are the

most likely ones. one uh states win at

trial, permanent injunction, merger

blocks, sky dance walks, Paramount

restructures or finds a new buyer.

Settlement possible. Um Paramount offers

structural remedies. Divesta studio sell

cable networks. Uh states accept or

reject. Um deal collapses economically.

Also possible.

Ticking fees exceed value of Warner

Brothers or Sky Dance. Uh invokes

termination cross clause. Merger dies

without a verdict. And then if Paramount

wins at trial, merger closes after more

than $1 billion in ticking fees and

severe reputational damage near certain

appeal by states. I just don't

I got to say I don't know. She's a

talented lady, but I'm this is not that

time is not on the side of Paramount

here in that regard. So again, as I

often do here, I'm just sort of flying

on instruments and thinking out loud,

but I wonder if the fulcrum here. So e

economically, if this goes on long

enough, they will it it will close

because

>> it will close the deal

>> if it goes on long enough. But and and

there's a there's a big butt here. Um

the data, the the only way this legally

doesn't close when they chase it all

down and they've had a chance to

actually evaluate it is to prove it's a

monopoly. And I don't I think they're

going to have a very difficult time. The

AG is proving that because uh

essentially a combined um a combined

Warner Brothers and Paramount would

represent about 12% of total US TV watch

time and YouTube currently stands at 13.

And in terms of box office sales, a

combined Paramount and Warner Brothers

represent roughly 25% of the domestic

box office. Now having said that, if the

fees if if this becomes economically

untenable because of delay and ticking

fees, they might just say throw up their

arms and blame Democrats. And by the

way, this is political. All 12 AG's

filing cases are Democrats here. The

judge that decided this was a Biden

appointee.

>> But the Trump administration waved it

through when lawyers of the Justice

Department didn't want to.

>> What's good for the goose is good for

the gander. This is if you're going to

weaponize the DOJ against us, whether

it's cutting off fees to our greatest

research universities with no legal

precedent, if it's if it's ram, if it's

carving up TikTok like a a political

give back to your Republican donors,

fine. You want you want to go that way

>> or waving this deal through when lawyers

at the Justice Department did not want

it to go through. Se many there I mean

there's a ton of examples. The FTC going

after the view. I mean, it's just if

you're going to be ridiculous, folks, I

I actually like Democrats punching back

at at some point. I do think the merits

of this case or the lack thereof will

result in a judge saying, "Okay, this is

going to close." The fulcrum, I want to

get your view on this. I think the thing

if this dies, I think the reason it will

die is if Open AI continues to have

negative momentum. Why is that?

Oracle stock for a while about I think

it was nine or 12 months ago Larry

Ellison became the wealthiest man in the

world because they announced a deal for

something like a trillion dollars in

capex commitment from open AI to build

out help build out their their

infrastructure around compute and

inference. Oracle stock is dramatically

off

>> dramatically. Yeah. And if the cracks

continue to widen at OpenAI, Oracle has

now become a tracking a public tracking

stock for Open AI. And I got to think

that that dad's piggy bank, which is

Oracle shares, are quite frankly that's

where this check gets cashed and if

Oracle shares come under enough pressure

and dad goes, you know what?

all of a sudden this went from five or

10% of my net worth to 20 or 30% and

it's going to quite frankly, you know,

I'm I'm going to wake up in in a in a in

a suit that's uncomfortable for me at

this age in terms of finance and debt.

He might decide, sorry, son, I don't I

can't refill your green light credit

card as I do because the deliveroo and

the Uber has become too expensive. I'm

now using the metaphor for what I do.

>> Yeah, it's down 52% in the past year.

52%. I mean year to date uh debt year to

date 39%. Uh 6 months 32% 1 month you

know it's just headed down. You're

right. I mean I this is what I had said.

Remember I had said this a couple this

Oracle stock thing that I was paying

attention to. That's besides the point.

I think that they just overindexed on

their confidence. They were like well we

got the Trump administration to roll

over. We gave the EU some stuff they

wanted. And then they were like China

said yes. I'm like what's the

difference? it doesn't really matter

because these guys have a what I thought

Bond did very smartly and I agree with

you it's a different market but the

judge is also calling that irrelevant

the streaming market irrelevant here for

this particular case um so I don't think

they have a great way in with this judge

and I thought they were overly confident

they did not think Bont would be quite

so controlled because he could have done

a get rid of CNN thank horrible CBS they

did none of that they did only a very

specific specific small discreet lawsuit

that will move will delay this just

enough. They don't have to win. They

really don't have to win here. They just

have to delay it. And the question is

how much will the Ellison's put up with

to own this. That's the thing. How much

they're rich enough to do it. It's just

a question of how much how much they

want it, right? I guess on some level.

And again, delays in deal making for

Warner Brothers. Delays. I mean, the

asset becomes less valuable. They can't

make any major deals now. They can't do

any major things and the other people

will benefit. It's not a good situation.

>> I think we're in violent agreement here.

And that is whether or not this this the

the legal merits here are important. But

I would argue the legal merits all point

to eventually this would close. But they

can they can get in the way of the

closing and force the Ellison to perhaps

walk away if they make getting to

closing too expensive for them. And it's

not only a function of the price and the

expense. It's a function of of how much

money the Ellison's have. And some if if

Oracle is down another 50%, I don't

think the deal closes. If it's up 20 or

30%, I think they have the staying power

to weigh these guys out and hire your

hire your very talented friend who by

the way has a very handsome trophy

husband. I just want to point that out.

[laughter]

>> David,

>> he's he's dreamy. He's dreamy.

>> She's going to be mad at us, you know.

>> Oh, really?

>> Yeah. Every now

>> I like it when baller women have like a

trophy a trophy husband. I think that's

>> he's a very talented journalist.

[laughter]

>> Come on. We've been doing it. We've been

doing Anyways, we've been we've been

doing that [ __ ] forever. I'm going to

get a text. Why should you be the only

one with a trophy? A trophy.

>> She thinks we've gone too woke. I think

I think she does think we've gone too.

>> Oh, well, let me word to your mother,

sister. A lot of people think that.

Anyways, uh

[laughter]

>> we're wokeish. We're woke adjacent.

>> We're woke adjacent, right?

>> We wear one Birkenstock. [laughter] Um

>> we wander around. Listen, this is a

devastating business problem. They It's

really bad. It's not good. Um you know,

this is Look, it's just this is to me,

they were too arrogant. They were too

arrogant. They did. They didn't think

this guy would come to play.

>> It's gonna media's obsessed with itself.

They're going to constantly report about

it.

>> It's an Come on. It's an interesting

case. It is interesting. Come. It's all

the tech people. It's media. It's tech.

It's Larry Ellison. The satanic looking

Larry Ellison. It's so much good stuff

here. Come on. It's a great story. It's

a great And now you brought in Beth

Wilkinson, the star litigator.

>> I hope I'm not going to get him in

trouble. I had I had uh drinks with the

guy who runs Warner Brothers movies or

one of the co-. And he's just like the

the loveliest guy, this guy Jesse man.

>> Yeah. They're so

>> And he's just so nice. And I'm like,

"What's going on there?" It's like I

just I just show up and I do my work,

[laughter] you know? It's just like I

don't know. I'm just showing up trying

to find good ideas to turn into movies

that people want to see.

>> Yeah. I just I don't know. I don't I

think I'm going to I'm going to go on a

limb and say this deal doesn't happen.

This deal doesn't happen.

>> But again, it

>> I'm going to I I don't I agree with you.

>> You might be right.

>> I agree with you on the on the market,

but I don't think that's what it's going

to get judged on. This judge has already

signaled that.

>> No, no, no, no. That I there's no I mean

>> winning isn't winning. Yeah, but we're

saying the same thing. This this isn't

about the legal argument. It's about the

pro it's about the prospects. It's about

Oracle stock price, which is directly

linked to the prospects of Open AI at

this point. So, if you want to know

whether this deal is going to close or

not, tell me what the narrative is in

the value of Open AI is in 6 months.

That's it.

>> We'll see. We'll see if they've got the

staying power. You Ellison's boy, they

weren't expecting this, I don't think.

And also, let me just put in throw in

one last thing. Guess what's happening

in November? the midterms. They This

family does not look good during the

midterms given all the crap they were

doing at CBS and all the the statements

about what they were going to do at CNN.

They are going to run into a buzzsaw of

Democrats on top of this like by the

way. So just all all down and to the

right. So to the right to the right.

>> I hope so. I hope you're right. And they

shouldn't have done the CBS mess. It

brought ridiculous attention to a very

small part of its business. It was

stupid.

>> I think that's accurate.

They created smoke where they didn't

need to, you know,

>> they could have just let it run quietly

and then done all their nasty stuff

later, but they didn't. They couldn't

resist. Anyway, um the rescheduled White

House correspondents dinner took place

Friday. Jesus Christ, this thing.

Speaking of media, what a story. Three

months after Gum forced the original

event to be cut short, Trump opened by

saying the show must go on in condemning

political violence. That was good, but

quickly shifted to an hour of attacks on

Democrats, celebrities, and journalists.

many of his jokes falling flat and even

Republicans didn't think it was good.

Those attacks include personal jabs at

CNN's Caitlyn Collins. How dare he?

Who's accepting an award for her White

House coverage? Trump was also sat there

as the Wall Street Journal accepted an

award for its reporting on his ties to

Jeffrey Epstein in that famous uh

birthday greeting thing with the with

the lady's vagina. Um this I I you know

how I feel about this correspondence

dinner. I think it's just repulsive and

and I had offered to pay for the

scholarships cuz I hated it so much. But

I covered it as a young reporter. I

thought it was terrible 20 years ago. Uh

this was just bad. And you know, don't

come for Caitlyn Collins, my friend. I

thought she acted rather well. Although

I suspect nobody should have been there

in the first place, but that's just me.

>> Well, let's bring this back to me. I

need your advice. So, this is a picture.

I'm holding this up for our viewers on

YouTube.

>> You and Caitlyn.

>> This is me and Caitlyn. Notice what

she's doing here.

>> Smiling. Smiling. She's smiling.

>> She's

>> She's in addition to being a very

talented journalist, she's also a lovely

person who smiles when appropriate.

>> She smiles when appropriate. That's

correct.

>> I saw this thing. I mean, the clips are

everywhere. And I just thought there I

think about our brand, right? The US

brand. There are a few things that have

been worse for the brand than the White

House Correspondents Dinner.

>> Never. Yes. The worst. The worst. Well,

first off, what better marks America

than an event with our, you know,

technically our most iconic journalist

and the president and a mentally ill man

with guns manages to interrupt the whole

thing. And then we reschedu it and we

have this 80-year-old man making the

creep. This wasn't even about insults.

It's like this dude is just so [ __ ]

creepy. creepy. It's like your

grandfather whose daughtering shows up

and won't stop talking about his

grandson's girlfriend in a very

uncomfortable way. It's like, dude, just

take your limp dick and just take it

somewhere else.

>> It's so the air I don't know the clip

the the air in that room was like, "Oh,

[ __ ] God, this is just the worst

thing." And and let's go macro. The

White House correspondents dinner is

like Blockbuster holding an award show

for who has the best DVD. No one gives a

[ __ ] It's it's like come on. The

institutions here there's a theme across

all of this. The through line is the

institutions are seeding power to to

individuals and to individual

journalists who go on social media. This

[ __ ] this thing needs to be buried or at

a minimum don't invite the president.

This thing just was so awkward.

>> Exactly. just have a nice dinner with

your I'm not a big awards person. I hate

awards. I don't go to them anymore cuz I

hate I hate them in the first place and

now I've said, you know, I actually hate

them. Why am I going? Uh I have I have

never I've only covered this as a young

reporter. I never went I've gone to the

parties. Um but I' I've always found it

to be this little like haha laugh laugh

with the cabinet members, whether it's

Obama people or whether it's um Trump

people. It's gross. It's gross in a way

that really makes people hate

journalists. And that was always my

issue with it. It's like it's fine for

those cabinet people to go. It's like

whatever. They get to like influence

journalists. But it just dressing up and

and my issue the whole thing was I knew

he was going to do this. Everyone knew

he was going to do this. So what's your

choice? Not showing up, which I think is

the best choice. The second one is what

if walking out in a in a tuxedo a how

dare you sir look makes you look idiotic

and sitting there makes you look there's

no winning for the journalist they

shouldn't have gone

>> yeah but yes exactly and that's

>> they should have gone they should have

done a nice dinner or something for the

winners and

>> and to sit up there and have him like

hand out an award to the Wall Street

Journal I'm

>> the whole thing it's like we have lost

so much standing globally Everybody has,

right?

>> We we we just look like it. Oh, wait.

They had to reschedule it because a

mentally ill person with access to

firearms interrupted it. So, they redid

the thing and this president had to sit

there and then make a stupid creepy

comment.

It's like how how could we how could we

damage the brand and just look like a

more a more strange weird nation than we

already look?

>> I agree. and then laughing with him and

then the incoming president of it Jackie

Hinrich from Fox like laughed and joked

it up with him after he did the creepy.

I mean seriously it's like the whole

thing is like I don't Jackie I don't

care if you're at Fox and you're

conservative. That was gross. That was

gross from a conservative or a liberal

point of view and not just Caitlyn like

and then using Dylan Mulvaney. Oh

anyway, please don't do this anymore. I

when I said don't do this anymore after

the after uh the the shooting I got so

many like pressed people like Cara

that's really unfair. I was like go [ __ ]

yourself. This is [ __ ] We shouldn't

be doing this. It should be over. Thank

you very much.

>> So folks just just in terms of of how

precious broadcast journalists think

they are. Podcasts reach exponentially

more people. Do we have an award show

giving each other little trophies?

>> Did we go? We did.

>> Oh, wait. We got awards. Never mind. I

take it back.

>> Yeah, but we don't. It's fun. Like it's

there's no president there. It was like

there was the Webbies. We got one at the

Webbies. That was fun as [ __ ] That was

a really good party. There was no there

was no president. There was no There

were all these cool people there. It was

fun. I don't And I That's the only one I

like cuz I think it's an actually fun

party. But no, mostly no. Right. Do we

>> um

>> Did we talk to any?

>> There's no invite the president. We're

not going to shake hands with the

president. That's what we're definitely

not doing anyway.

>> Yeah.

>> Anyway, folks, Caitlyn Collins, we love

you. You did a great, let me tell you,

she acted with a lot of dignity. She

She's a young woman and she acted I

would have been like slapping him silly,

but of course, you would have been

arrested then. But anyway, uh it's it's

just terrible to put people in that

situation and they and putting

themselves in that situation is not the

best thing either. Anyway, let's go on a

quick break. When we come back, Meta

pushes AI optimism.

Support for this show comes from Delete

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Scott, we're back. Uh, Meta just

launched a new campaign and making a

case for AI optimism with an ad showing

Meta products as tools for human

connection. The video is set to David

Bow's 5 years, which is a song about the

end of the world. Now, let me be fair.

Bowie Bowie did say later that he wrote

it in hopes people would be optimistic.

Just so you know. Just so you know. I I

want to correct that. A lot of people

were like, "It's it was it was about the

end of the world, but he was hoping to

turn that around." But let's listen to a

clip first.

>> Some people will have you believe AI

will make us less connected, that it's

going to leave us behind. We couldn't

disagree more. Call us optimists.

[music]

Call us dreamers.

Just as we've always done, [music] we're

betting on people.

>> Make it stop. [laughter]

>> Jesus Christ. Make it seriously make it

stop. Mark Zuckery shared the ad on

Facebook, writing, "As we enter the next

wave of AI, we continue to believe the

future is for everyone. The message

comes months after Meta told staff it

was cutting 10% of its workforce and

scrapping 6,000 open ROS to offset AI

spending." I would like your marketing.

Let me just tell you, I'm just telling

you, this says midterms all over it.

It's like now we believe in people.

Before he believed in giving Donald

Trump money, but now people thoughts,

marketing professor, put your hat on and

tell me what works and doesn't work

here.

>> I know exactly what's going on here.

Somebody really attractive who wears

black has shown up and talk about

intangible associations and emotion and

they have so much [ __ ] money. And

then Mark and the CMO there has

convinced themselves this was a good

idea. This goes back to the notion of

don't these people have friends? I mean,

Mark, can you can you tell us how

connecting people fits into

uh teen girls selfharming or you hiding

evidence that one in eight uh British

teens site Instagram as a as a catalyst

for their mental health. I sat next to

the woman, you know, Dina Pal, and she

wrote, she tweeted a thing, and said,

"It's always been about connecting

people. Call us optimists." And the only

thing I could think of was, "Sit down.

I'm an AI optimist.

>> You're

I I mean,

>> Meta Marketing Professor." Yeah.

>> Meta's new ad has this incredible soft

focus family using AI glasses to connect

more meaningful meaningfully.

>> Stalker glasses. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay. Nothing says intimacy like a

$300 pair of glasses beaming your kid's

birthday party back to a [ __ ] server

farm so Zuck can serve the moment back

to you as a Nissan ad.

>> It's just this is so cynical. They are

the last people to be talking about

>> the upside of AI. They're going to

invite so much criticism.

>> I don't know who the CMO of Meta is.

You're a [ __ ] idiot for approving

this thing.

>> What would you do here? Because they

have other ones. They have another uh

video I saw about data centers. They're

trying to turn that idea around that it

does help people, it creates jobs, etc.

They're they're now moving.

>> That's a good one. That ad is smart. Uh

PR and talent just very droid. No

ethnically ambiguous people pretending

they're happy wearing these glasses.

None of that [ __ ] Just communications

around what is trying to call balls and

strikes. Their program around vocational

training and investing in vocational

training. That is a great program. That

is great branding. It shouldn't be an

ad. It should be their PR team, which

are some of the most talented people in

the world, getting that that thing

placed everywhere, but not running ads

on it. This thing is so t it's going to

invite so much scrutiny around. Okay,

this is Jeffrey Dmer running a Jack in

the Box commercial. It's just you just

don't do this. you. What are you

thinking approving an ad saying that

you're AI optimist and you're

connecting?

>> What the hell? They also cursed in it. I

don't like when they curse in ads. I

don't like that.

>> Yeah. So, I don't I find and and I just

when when Dina and she seemed like a

lovely woman and she put out the ad. I

just the first thing I thought of I

can't do this cuz she's friends with

Care. I thought sit down. You're the

last people that you should be claiming

that you're AI. What do you do if you're

trying to get back the you know look I'm

telling you this is so motivated by

what's coming in in November and the and

the payback.

>> What do you mean by that? Same

>> because I think they're all like let me

just tell you I there isn't a tech

company that suddenly hasn't hey girlled

me recently. All of them. All of them.

They're like Carara we haven't talked in

a while like after the Trump thing. Cuz

I'm like you [ __ ] for like throwing

in with Trump you corrupt pieces of

[ __ ] like essentially. And now they're

like, "We need to talk cuz we believe in

safety. Like I'm getting a lot of

safety. We should have a meeting. You

know, what you've been saying has really

resonated with us. Like what you're

saying about like corruption." I was

like, "Uh, aren't you paying the

bribes?" Like it's really I just feel

like there's an understanding that

there's going to be payback right now.

That's one. Two, what would you do? Like

at some point, like I know people hate

when I say this, but you know, how do

you turn it around? But is there a world

in which Mark Zuckerberg could do

something to not seem like so

villainous? Or maybe not. Maybe not. I

don't know. I mean, I recall when Gates

was villainous and then until the

Epstein stuff, he was nonvillainous,

right? So, what does he what do they

have to do to get what would you what

would the ad that you would do here?

Let's help them. Let's help them in

their thing. Say they're genuinely

saying we made a mistake. We want back

into humanity. What would you or they

can't be or they can't come in back at

Tanny because they're doing all this

other damage. I

>> I hate to say it, but it's a Ruber

Murdoch brand strategy. Rupert just owns

it. He's like, I am who I am. I work

behind the scenes. He doesn't run ads

trying to make the Murdochs more

likable. He doesn't run ads trying to

say Fox, we're good for America.

>> Well, there was fair and balanced if you

recall for a minute.

>> Okay. But they just quite frankly, they

just they just own it. And the reality

is is that the Zuckerberg brand and the

Meta brand is for the most part a very

strong brand for the following reason.

America has opted for shareholder value

over competence and the well-being of

the Commonwealth. We really respect and

admire a company that's able to create

this sort of shareholder value. Their

products are amazing. I I hate to admit

this. I am addicted to Instagram reels.

I think it is incredible. I think it's

incredible.

>> Yeah, I like as you know

>> their performance, their shareholder

returns, the fact that they have they

hire a ton of talented people and create

economic security for them. The fact

that housing prices are up 28% large

part because Meta is making so many

people wealthy. A lot of people have

registered enormous shareholder gains.

Do your thing. Go on background. Try and

defend yourself. Fine. this I think the

vocational investment I think it's $150

million is absolutely genius but having

an ad where the tagline is presence

reimagined that to me feels like them

saying we already have your face your

friends and your location now we'd like

to own your depth perception I mean I

don't want they should not bring

attention

>> they have a they have a need to be liked

they do you know

>> shouldn't be running these ads

>> yeah they have a need to like we're not

villain

And I don't know what they could do. I

mean, do you know admit to some of their

big problems? Admit to it if they want

to be liked. Like that's what I mean. If

I think wanting to be liked is part of

this. And look at like look at that

interview Elon did with uh with the

financial with the um

>> economist

>> the economist uh Betos.

>> They feel like they're misunderstood and

they only have a chance.

>> Shut the [ __ ] I kept thinking stop

talking. You are like, you know, and

she's so adept. She's amazing. And I was

like, "Stop talking. Oh my god." Like,

"Stop talking." At some point, I was

like wanting to get him off the stage

cuz I thought he doesn't even know how

awful he is. Right. And I think in in

the case of Meta, I think they do want

they do understand there's a a shift

happening, a vibe shift rather

significant. And they're trying to

figure out how to be liked again. I'm

not so sure they're ever going to be

liked. I think you're right. I don't I

don't know.

>> The advice the advice is the same. They

should take the advice from Albert

Brooks to William Hurt. When William

Hurt says, "What happens when your

reality exceeds your wildest dreams?"

And Albert Brooks says, "Keep it to

yourself."

>> Keep it to yourself.

>> They should just continue to perform,

continue to add shareholder value, go on

background when they feel they being

treated unfairly. But to run this like

sugary ad of we're here to connect

people. No, you're not. That's not your

aim. That's not what you're trying to do

here. They should just put wins on the

board on things they can put wins on the

board in like helping people get jobs

maybe giving money to like well you see

teen girls like they we don't want their

money right like you're the ones that

cause the problem or well part of the

problem not all of it but

>> their economic growth economic engine

incredible products incredible

shareholder value I personally think it

would be a good move at this point for

these guys to self- agegate say we're

not letting anyone onto the platform

under the age of 16

>> I think they're going to do that I think

they're going to Uh they're going to do

it the night before it's about to pass

in Congress is when they'll do it.

>> I think they're going to move into that

space, I think. But then there's the the

beef with Apple and Google over that.

Who who decides age verification? That's

another fight, by the way. And Apple and

Google aren't distinguishing themselves

in that fight either. Anyway, it's a

really it was not a great ad. It's not

stick with the simple ads. We're

providing jobs. We care about people's,

you know, we're going to help this. You

know, it's interesting because Mark does

switch between I want to be liked and

[ __ ] you. And I I think [ __ ] you is

probably where he mostly lives. Um, and

he must he has to become comfortable in

that spot, but I don't think he is.

>> I felt like I felt like, okay, them

spending $100 million

to try and say we're likable and we're

cool again is like your uncle showing up

with a Ferrari to convince everyone he

doesn't miss his ex. It's just it

doesn't ring true.

>> I don't know.

>> They're trying to make surveillance

capitalism seem aspirational.

creepy glasses or like lean into the

creepy glasses or something like I just

it's really interesting and I think

they're going to I I think ultimately

he's going to have to live with the fact

and this movie is coming out the social

reckoning um which I think is not going

to look make him look very good.

>> I I I I can't I just hope a lot of the

creators do like what if ads were honest

because this would be we're bringing

people together usually to sell them

creatine that they talked about with an

earshot of a phone. I mean that would be

the real ad, right?

>> [laughter]

>> or to suggest or to suggest innovative

ways of self harm or how 90 lbs and 510

is normal. That's how we're bringing

people together.

>> That's not funny. That's why am I

laughing? That's not funny. Um, you know

what they should do is you don't like

us. We know. But we have some good

stuff. Like we're not the we're not What

can we say? We're not Elon Musk. We're

not Elon Musk.

>> We're bringing people together by

elevating your aunt's conspiracy

theories. [laughter] I mean, I just I

can't wait

for for

>> We should go in there and do a

presentation. [laughter]

>> I think we're not Elon Musk is their

best argument. So, just anyway, I I to

be fair, the song is fine. I know people

made a big thing of it. Actually, he was

talking about a better future in that

song, too. Oh, wait. I got another one.

>> If you have to explain your joke, it's

not funny.

>> I got another one.

>> We're meta, where you found your college

roommate. Now it's where you share your

roommate's dad's post that Michelle

Obama is secretly a linebacker.

[laughter]

I mean I I bring me in. Bring [laughter]

me in, coach.

>> Let's go in there.

>> I'm ready.

>> Let's go and help them. Let's help them.

They should have a sense of humor. That

is one thing Mark has not had enough of

is a sense of humor. He does not

[laughter] have

>> He's not going to laugh at

I tried. Meta, we're going to try and

sell you something you searched about at

2 a.m. 6 months ago. [laughter]

>> Okay, stop. All right, we're moving on.

Um, this Trump administration, moving

on. Sorry, Mark. We apologize. Not

really.

>> I got one more. Based on my feed, the

future is AI generated Jesus holding six

puppies while giving away free RVs.

[panting]

Literally, Meta, if you have any sense

of humor, you will run my ads.

[laughter] You will run I should do this

on AI. Can't you create ads using AI

now? Maybe.

>> Yeah. Yeah. How about How about Meta

[ __ ] election?

>> I should start a podcast on ads for

meta.

>> I've got one meta [ __ ] elections

since 2006.

>> There you go.

>> Nice. Anyway, um all right, moving on.

Donald Trump says administration is

launching a trade investigation into

European Union after it hit Google with

a $1 billion antitrust fine. In a true

social post, Trump accused the EU of

robbing American tech companies. Trump

claimed the latest fine was issued

without explanation, even though the EU

regulators said it stem from failure to

comply with the Digital Markets Act,

which we've known about for a long time.

Regardless, Trump said the US is not a

piggy bank for Europe and is threatening

to hit the EU with substantial tariffs.

his usual go-to is his tariffs because

those just expired and he's trying all

manner of ways to put new tariffs on.

Um, you know, listen, Obama

released a similar thing at the time of

the original digital markets act and the

other act. Um, so I, you know, a lot of

presidents do this, but a bill, you

know, the tariff way, he never did

anything about it. He compl Obama

complained about it as I recall, but um,

and was defending US tech companies, but

thoughts on this? I'm so exhausted by

all of it because I have trouble

understanding it. And usually the stuff

that's boring is the important stuff. So

look, I the two decisions

uh half a billion fine for

self-preferencing its own search. I I I

the EU has essentially become the de

facto regulator for American tech

because America won't do it itself. So

I'm a little bit I'm I'm of two minds

here. And that is when the primary form

of tech innovation coming out of the EU

is regulation. That's not a great sign.

It it it reflects poorly on both of us.

Quite frankly, I I don't have a lot to

say here. Cara, what are your thoughts?

By the way, the new I do have the new

meta tagline, though. We're not the same

Facebook that ruined Thanksgiving.

[laughter]

>> This time, [gasps] we won't drink this

time. We [laughter] promise not to

drink. I I got I got a new job as an

agency. I'm literally starting the new

meta agency. Whether they like it or

not, I'm the new brought us in. Bring us

in, Mark. Bring us in. We can help you.

>> Put us in.

>> Put us in. Put us in. Pay us enormous

amounts of money to insult you. Um

>> Meta, we're not just ruining

Thanksgiving anymore.

>> Yeah. [laughter]

>> If you thought If you thought your drunk

uncle practicing karate at Thanksgiving

was creepy, wait till you see what the

algorithm is going to feed you.

>> All right. I'm going to very quickly

dispense of this and I'm going to say

one thing. Let me just tell you Meta,

you really should have a sin. You should

100% have it. That would show you

understand the problem that you have. I

think it would be really good.

>> You know how you get your hey girls? You

know what I get? I don't get hey girl. I

get hey,

and by the way, they don't call me.

Their PR represent their comms person

who shouts them go hey so and so is

going to be in town. Would love to grab

a drink with you. Everyone thinks that

if anyone offering me a drink, I'm

there.

>> Yes, he is. He shows up.

>> They're literally like he's an alcoholic

[laughter] and invite him out for

drinks. I'm like the less the less

intelligent Christopher Hitchens.

>> I'll tell you what I do when I get the

Hey Girls. I go because I'm like, okay,

sure. I'm happy to re-engage with him

given I was accurate. No, I want to find

[ __ ] out.

>> You see this picture of me and Kaitlin

Collins?

>> I [laughter] see that.

>> I love that.

This is my credibility right here.

>> She works hard. I really like hitting

calls. All right, with the the the EU

thing. This has been going on forever.

We don't do any regulation. They may be

guilty of doing too much, but too bad

y'all knew the fines that were going to

be here. Do something about our tech

industry in a way that satisfies

European regulators. And if you want to

operate there, you live by their rules.

I'm sorry. Like, and and the Trump Trump

can complain about it, but hitting with

tariffs, his old trick, is ridiculous.

Tariffs are bad for the economy. They

cause inflation. They're stupid. They're

a stupid way to hit back and it's not

going to work. So, it doesn't matter.

So, it does I think it's just a wash in

that regard. Um, Remeta, uh, you can

keep making jokes all the rest of the

show. All right, let's go on a quick

break. When we come back, the FDA

loosens restrictions on peptides. Oo,

something to Scott likes to talk about.

We'll talk about what happens next.

Scott, we're back and talking about the

latest buzzword in wellness, peptides.

I'm so tired of hearing about peptides

from people after my show. People take

them for everything from weight loss to

anti-aging to muscle growth. They're the

miracle drug. By the way, GLP1s are

peptides. Right now, people are getting

on these uh so-called gray market online

through longevity clinics, even Tik Tok

outside of the FDA approval process. But

last week, a panel of doctors and

pharmacists, all of whom are in the

tank, voted to recommend the FDA ease

access to several peptides that are

popular with influencers, celebrities,

and RFK Jr. That's in spite of

government scientists warning about the

lack of data showing these drugs are

safe or effective. It's like nuts. Um

the FDA isn't saying the drugs are

dangerous. They're saying they don't

have enough information which uh which

they should get and not maybe not a good

enough reason to restrict access but

approval would benefit teleaalth

companies, compounding pharmacies and

frankly RFK's agenda. Um, I I will say

one quick thing since I I didn't cover

them in my show, but I I there's the

gray market is so dangerous and you

could they are mostly made in China.

It's a very dangerous thing to be

putting in your body and there still are

very unclear studies on whether these

things work and there should be, by the

way, there should be studies um paid for

by the government that which we used to

fund these scientists to do these

things. But just letting them out there

among the people is such a mistake if we

don't have and I understand slowing

things down is a problem. But sometimes

it's for the best and these things can

be very very dangerous without um in

terms of where they're coming from and

the the whether they're they're safe for

use. Scott, go ahead. Peptides.

>> Well, peptides an overused term. GLP1 is

a peptide and my understanding is

peptides just a series of molecules. The

I agree with you that the again it's the

same through line. It's a lack of trust

in our institutions. We used to trust

our institutions to tell us what we

should put into our body or what we

shouldn't or that we had a smart FDA or

a smart CDC that would help protect us.

I had dinner uh with two um actors on

when was it Thursday I think or

Saturday. Anyways, and they're both on

this Wolverine stack peptide. And I like

this stuff. I like I take supplements.

I'm on testosterone therapy. I was doing

NAD for a while. I'm abs I like to be

out I I do believe there's something to

this stuff but I I wait till there's a

decent amount I guess NAD is the most

and and I also do creatine creatine but

I as someone who does a decent amount of

research the peptide jury is not in uh

or these peptides I should say

>> GLP1 they are they or they're getting

there

>> oh GLP1 is it's FDA approved I mean most

many of these GLP1s are FDA approved and

by the way every piece of research that

comes comes out the externalities are

positive which is the most unique thing

>> and we're getting real time data with

people using them usually they're now

done by doctors much more so than at the

beginning but go ahead

>> oh by the way the same ad agency that's

helping Meta is rebranding Marlro as a

wellness startup just so you know um

[laughter]

anyway so finish your thought your

peptide thought

>> I I again I think it's this people

deciding to do their own medical

research and come to their own

conclusions because an influencer tells

that you know Leo is on this thing and I

actually I don't know if he is or isn't.

>> Right. Right. Yeah.

>> And point

>> I do think there's something all the

stuff I've done I have never done it

without medical supervision meaning my I

I I have my blood drawn all the time now

and I do all these crazy analyses of it

and they'll say you are low on these

omegas take fish oils. Fine. you know,

uh,

I'm I'm a fan of intervention and being

thoughtful about about plusing up the

gaps in your nutrition or whatever it

might be, especially as you get older.

And I'm I'm my view is between the ages

of 20 and 50, your body's pretty goddamn

good at figuring out what it needs.

Unfortunately, it starts to die because

the majority of us are supposed to be

dead by now. So, some intervention, I

think, makes sense. This stuff feels

cutting edge to the point of buyer

beware. Yeah, I would agree. I have a

lot of people that are like, "It works."

I'm like, "Does it? Do you know? Do you

know there's there are studies?" I'm

like, "Actually, no. No, there are like

they're not they're very inconclusive

and where they're where my most my worry

about them." And they should be studied.

Absolutely.

Is where they're coming from and where

you're getting those things. And you

wouldn't like it's sort of like getting

like here's some milk from a guy on the

corner. Like it might be good, it might

be bad. And so a lot of it does come

from China, especially these compounding

agencies. And there are no strictures on

how they are. It's like eating poop

lettuce. Like you might have a good

meal, you might have di exploding

diarrhea. And it it's it's I just it's

too dangerous to do it. But everybody

every I get so yelled at. That's the one

thing with peptides. And I'm like, I'm

sorry. I wish it I it would be great if

they worked the way they say. They also

are ascribing far too many like it's

it's a solution for everything, which is

all these supplements. They're not.

Sometimes they're a very small little

addition to your life. Sometimes like

GLP1s, they are truly groundbreaking. Um

but they they to say they do everything

is just unproven and you have to stop

pretending so. Um uh so you know, every

person who comes up to me, I'm sorry,

you're incorrect, but and you shouldn't

be putting things like this in your body

uh without medical supervision or or

scientific proof. Uh sorry, I'm I'm on

the scientific proof. Anyway, uh, that's

the way it is. That's the way it is. Um,

but you know, meta now with more

peptides. All right, Scott, one more

question.

>> Hold on, hold on.

>> New tagline. Facebook, where a nuance

goes to get beaten to death with a

folding chair? [laughter]

>> Oh, I feel so bad.

>> But isn't literally Isn't this ad,

>> God? Isn't essentially this ad just the

the broadcast embodiment of an abusive

ex-husband Zuckerberg seeing you and

whispering in your ear, maybe changed.

>> Maybe I've changed.

>> Maybe I've changed.

>> I've changed. Here's the thing. Why

don't our listeners write in their

taglines for Metaf to help them?

>> Well, it's also, you know, what's

disingenuous as a as a brand guy? These

ads. These ads are absolutely beautiful,

but the thing is their actual product in

terms of design, it feels like

Craigslist [ __ ] Qannon. It's like

[laughter]

Qan on Qanon. Qan on

>> Baby, I've changed.

>> Baby, I've changed. I'm a new man. Baby,

I've changed. Take me back, baby. I just

love you so much. You forced me to hit

you. [laughter] I just love you so much.

>> We should not be laughing at that. It

is.

>> No, that's terrible.

>> You're terrible.

>> Terrible.

>> You're terrible. We're terrible.

>> Anyway, I'm sure we'll get lots of

letters. Anyway, why don't you all write

in and tell us what you think the

taglines for Meta should be and then we

will we will read them. Um, anyway, see

if you can do better than Scott, who

just doesn't seem to stop. All right,

guys. Look at him. The marketer in him

is just energized. All right, one more

quick break. We'll be back for wins and

fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins

and fails. I think I'll go first. I I

first fail was the story came out on the

post which I was th post some the post

news side is doing a great job I have to

say um the police vetted this is a

headline police vetted dubious

allegation only after Buddha judge was

separated from children the people this

is the Pete Buddha judge kids were taken

away from him for a time and questioned

in a really un terrible way by by

authorities they were investigating um

these allegations made and the cabinet,

the former cabinet secretaries was

separated from his four-year-old twins.

Um, and now the mission attorney general

is investigating how the accusation

led to it. And it turns out the post

talked to the woman who did it and she

seems unhinged

um from what I can tell from the

interview and didn't really understand

it and basically I think made it up and

nobody was check like the I think it

started in Indiana and then he was

supposed to be in Alabama but none of

the authorities before they took the

kids away checked on the source of the

information. I I I have said this again

and again. uh uh Chaston and Pete should

sue these people for what they did and

and the damage is done to their kids

like unnecessarily without any checking

because of these ideas around gay

parenting where which you know was part

of it because this woman is essentially

did not think gay gay people should be

parents um from what I can tell from

this interview and I have to say it's

just it's it's mindboggling that our

author they I get it one crazy lady's

going make some allegations. That

happens all the time in this world now.

That fact that the police and others

didn't vet it is really it's just such a

incredible indictment of mission

authorities. So I just it's such a fail.

Such a massive enormous

repulsive fail I have to say. Um and my

win is is I have to this beautiful show

this cat's jellical ball. It's closing

soon. I recommend people go see it. Just

beautiful. It's so kind and and human

forward. speaking of something that is

human forward um and funny and just just

everything Broadway is great at and I

just uh Clara dressed herself up in this

beautiful spangled fierce dress and this

wonderful fascinator hat and it was just

a wonderful thing. So, um, I just love

when people are out at the theater and

in theater in movie theaters and things

like that. And so, I can't recommend

these lovely, joyful, beautiful,

artistic, human centered stuff that's

coming out lately. And it's really, it

does there seems to be a shift where

people just want to get together or else

celebrate real humanity, not in meta

ads, but in that way. So, I would I

would say get out and do something with

a lot of people and have some fun. All

right, that's my win. Uh, well, my loss

is the White House correspondents

dinner. It should be cancelled or they

should they need to reinvent it. It's

It was the one I built to fake a truce

and it couldn't hold for two hours or it

hasn't been able to hold for 2 hours.

And the the tell here was during this

ridiculous, weird, creepy rant on a on

respected journalist, the whole room

just went so silent. It felt like you

could cut the air with just ick and uh

terrible terrible for our brand.

Anyways, we covered that. That's my

loss. White House correspondents dinner.

Whoever the governing organization is

has to realize like this is over. It it

should be cancelceled or not done for a

couple years and they need to reinvent

something else. My win is

it's not getting very much coverage, but

what's gotten a decent amount of

coverage is is Ukraine with their

incredible supply chain and drone and AI

technology has been going after oil

infrastructure.

What they've done, which I thought was

genius, is they've gone after something

that is hit

Russia perhaps even harder and that it

was they blew up the Wild Berries

factory and it ends up basically

Wildberries is the Amazon of Russia. And

this supposedly has caused more rage

about the war than a million deaths and

casualties because the reality is the

majority of the soldiers and the

fatalities have are uh that that toll on

families has been levied against kids

and families from lack of a better term

rural Russia and the the the elites

don't really care. But you start [ __ ]

you start [ __ ] with their ability to

sell their fashion into people in St.

Petersburg. supposedly this has just

outraged all these creators and all

these small business people and also has

had an impact on the front lines cuz a

lot of people were buying kind of basic

military equipment and gear and I

thought it was just so um interesting

>> and Putin's on the run it looks like he

looks like he's hiding away too at the

same time

>> people well a supposedly he's paranoid

and b he's very he's very scared um u

but this is

this is so I thought this was so

interesting. They want what are they

doing? They're saying, "Okay, we've

shown we can kill a thousand people a

day. Russians don't seem to care." The

Russia's arguably Russia's core

competence. It's it's an incredibly

educated populace, an incredible

incredible appreciation for culture in

the arts and technology. a lot of very

redeeming qualities about the about

Russian culture. But their core

competence, quite frankly, is they're

willing to endure more suffering than

any than any society in history. We lost

400,000 people in World War II. They

lost 20 million. And they were ready to

keep fighting. And but what they've said

is, "Okay, we're going to hit you where

we think it hurts most for you, and that

is going after your ability to order

[ __ ] overnight."

And I thought it was just such genius

there. And I think Ukraine is not only

showing I mean they're they're

essentially they've said okay we're

bringing the war to you and it's just

interesting how they've decided to bring

it to the Russian populace. Uh so

instant visible pain versus sanctions

kind of year-long

you know year-long impact if you will or

yearslong impact. I thought it was very

innovative.

>> You know this would happen. This would

be like if we we declared war on Canada.

they would get us eventually. You know

what I mean? Like they're right right

next to each other. They've proven very

um strong. Although there's, you know,

there's been some back and forth with he

fired fired one guy one guy and then

everyone got mad about that and then he

ended up firing another defense minister

in Ukraine. There's a little bit of back

and forth there. But can I note

something else that he was doing that I

thought was rather clever. So he's now

going to the MAGA right to talk to

people. Did you see Laura Loomer who was

so anti- Ukraine and pro Putin went

there and interviewed him is suddenly

his biggest follower like he's so great

kind of thing. I think that's also very

clever. His even though he has his own

issues internally with corruption and

everything else. He's been very adept at

also appealing to the MAGA base here

which I think is probably very smart.

>> Yeah, it's a I mean you got mixed

emotions. You're like why why should

anyone care what Laura Loomer thinks?

But at the same time, anything that gets

pressed that highlights

>> even the crazies have recognized that

it's in our best interest to support

Ukraine, I'm I'm here for.

>> Yeah.

>> So, yeah, have at it, Laura. And next,

May maybe next you can do a segment on

how the greatest innovation in history

is vaccines. That's the one I'm waiting

for.

>> She suddenly is going to be pro vaccine.

Anyway, um those are those are good

ones. Those are excellent ones. Oh, by

the way, I have one more quick win.

Everybody go see Ride or Die with

Octavia Spencer and Hannah Wattingham.

Oh my god. It's It's a show on Amazon

and it's hysterical. It's two ladies.

It's so ridiculously It's such a

ridiculous conceit that they run around

and they're spies. But these two

couldn't be the be best pair and they

look so different and they're so

different in general. And I have to say

it's hysterical. Ride or die.

>> It's called Ride or Die.

>> Ride or die. And I love Hannah and I

love I love Octavia.

>> Is Hannah from Hacks? Is that the Hannah

from Hacks?

>> It's Hannah from Ted Lasso. Um, and

she's amazing. She's amazing. She's I

love her. I love her.

>> Oh, the one the Hannah that was in Game

of Thrones.

>> The Yes, she was in Game of Thrones,

too. Yes, that's right. Yeah, she's

amazing. She's a tall [clears throat]

drink of water. And Olivia is just

Octavia, excuse me, is incredible, too.

Just incredible. Just incredible. Go see

it if you want to enjoy yourself all all

day long and twice on Sunday. Uh, you'd

like it, Scott. Anyway, we want to hear

from you. Send us your questions about

business tech or whatever's on your

mind. can go to nymag.com/pivot

to submit a question for the show or

call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Cara

and Scott universe, this week on On, I'm

talking to actor and comedian Jeff

Hiller. He's in two of the buzziest TV

shows of the last year, Plurabus, where

he just got an Emmy nomination for a

just a guest role. He's amazing in it.

And Widow's Bay. He talked about why

people are drawn to these shows. Let's

listen to a clip. These are dark worlds,

but but it's not it's not like our dark

world, [laughter]

you know? It's it's um it's like we can

figure it out. We can pull it pull apart

the the lore and and and figure out this

mystery, whereas we don't have that kind

of control in our in our own life

because there's there's I mean, every

time he opened the New York Times, it's

like what that happened. Anyway, he's a

really great guy. He's he's a he's a

sort of a character actor and I love

charact There's so many great character

actors in all these shows including and

also Severant same thing. Um just really

like nice to see all these shows do so

well and he's terrific. Uh okay that's

the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot

and be sure to like and subscribe to our

YouTube channel. will be back on Friday.

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